WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.459 If you were to close your eyes right now and 00:00:02.459 --> 00:00:04.879 try to conjure up the ultimate image of the American 00:00:04.879 --> 00:00:07.900 West, the absolute archetype of the frontiersman, 00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:10.419 what enters your mind? I'm guessing it's a silhouette 00:00:10.419 --> 00:00:13.160 against a blazing sunset. Well, certainly a towering 00:00:13.160 --> 00:00:15.460 figure. Exactly. You're likely picturing someone 00:00:15.460 --> 00:00:18.000 six foot four, shoulders like an ox, a booming 00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:20.800 voice that echoes across the canyon. Maybe he's 00:00:20.800 --> 00:00:23.079 wrestling a grizzly bear with one hand and firing 00:00:23.079 --> 00:00:25.940 a long rifle with the other. A real life superhero 00:00:25.940 --> 00:00:29.100 clad in buckskin. It is the image that has been 00:00:29.100 --> 00:00:33.600 sold to us for over 150 years. The dime novel 00:00:33.600 --> 00:00:36.479 hero. The man who, you know, single -handedly 00:00:36.479 --> 00:00:39.219 conquered the wilderness. But today, we're doing 00:00:39.219 --> 00:00:41.000 something a little different. We're going to 00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:43.299 peel back that layer of buckskin and look at 00:00:43.299 --> 00:00:46.020 the actual human being underneath. And the reality, 00:00:46.240 --> 00:00:48.859 well, it is jarringly different from the movie 00:00:48.859 --> 00:00:50.960 poster. We were talking about Christopher Kidd 00:00:50.960 --> 00:00:54.159 Carson. And physically, the man was about 5 '5". 00:00:54.159 --> 00:00:56.579 On a good day, perhaps, yeah. Right. Accounts 00:00:56.579 --> 00:00:58.479 from the time describe him as stoop -shouldered, 00:00:58.539 --> 00:01:01.039 bow -legged from a lifetime in the saddle, and 00:01:01.039 --> 00:01:04.840 completely illiterate. General Sherman, who wasn't 00:01:04.840 --> 00:01:07.379 exactly known for his poetic flourishes, described 00:01:07.379 --> 00:01:10.599 Carson as having soft blue eyes and a voice that 00:01:10.599 --> 00:01:14.540 was, quote, soft and gentle as a woman's. It's 00:01:14.540 --> 00:01:17.000 a striking contrast, isn't it? You have this 00:01:17.000 --> 00:01:20.060 legendary reputation as a ring -tailed roarer, 00:01:20.079 --> 00:01:22.420 a man who supposedly slew hundreds of enemies 00:01:22.420 --> 00:01:24.859 and tamed the continent, yet the man himself 00:01:24.859 --> 00:01:27.969 was quiet. modest, and by all accounts, incredibly 00:01:27.969 --> 00:01:30.590 understated. That's the central paradox of Kit 00:01:30.590 --> 00:01:32.489 Carson. And that is our mission for this deep 00:01:32.489 --> 00:01:34.829 dive. We have a massive stack of sources here, 00:01:34.930 --> 00:01:38.049 biographies, military reports, historical reassessments, 00:01:38.109 --> 00:01:40.170 and we are going to unpack the reality behind 00:01:40.170 --> 00:01:41.829 the myth. We're going to look at his evolution 00:01:41.829 --> 00:01:43.730 from a runaway teen apprentice to a mountain 00:01:43.730 --> 00:01:46.090 man, then to an accidental national celebrity, 00:01:46.370 --> 00:01:49.230 and finally to a controversial military commander 00:01:49.230 --> 00:01:51.689 who is central to some of the most painful chapters 00:01:51.689 --> 00:01:54.049 in American history. It's a complicated legacy, 00:01:54.170 --> 00:01:57.329 to put it mildly. We are going to see a man who 00:01:57.329 --> 00:02:01.370 evolves significantly over time, whose life intersects 00:02:01.370 --> 00:02:03.689 with almost every major turning point of the 00:02:03.689 --> 00:02:06.730 American West. But to understand how he became 00:02:06.730 --> 00:02:09.969 a symbol both of expansion and, you know, of 00:02:09.969 --> 00:02:12.409 oppression, we have to start where it all began. 00:02:12.729 --> 00:02:15.689 Which surprisingly isn't in the Rocky Mountains. 00:02:15.729 --> 00:02:18.110 It's a saddle shop in Missouri. Right. But before 00:02:18.110 --> 00:02:20.250 the saddle shop, let's quickly ground his origins. 00:02:20.370 --> 00:02:23.250 He was born in Kentucky in 1809, but his family 00:02:23.250 --> 00:02:25.370 moved to the Missouri frontier, specifically 00:02:25.370 --> 00:02:28.030 a place called Boone's Lick when he was just 00:02:28.030 --> 00:02:31.229 a baby. Now, when we say frontier in 1810, we 00:02:31.229 --> 00:02:32.830 need to be clear about what that means. This 00:02:32.830 --> 00:02:35.050 wasn't just rural farmland. No, this was the 00:02:35.050 --> 00:02:37.370 absolute edge of the map. It really was. They 00:02:37.370 --> 00:02:39.449 were living in what amounted to a war zone. The 00:02:39.449 --> 00:02:41.590 cabins were forted with stockades to protect 00:02:41.590 --> 00:02:44.210 against attacks from local tribes. It was a life 00:02:44.210 --> 00:02:47.490 defined by constant vigilance and just... brutal 00:02:47.490 --> 00:02:50.330 hard labor. And tragedy struck his family really 00:02:50.330 --> 00:02:52.909 early on. It did. His father, Lindsey Carson, 00:02:53.129 --> 00:02:55.550 died when Kit was only eight years old. A tree 00:02:55.550 --> 00:02:57.389 limb fell on him while he was clearing a field. 00:02:57.650 --> 00:02:59.849 That feels like such a harsh, grim way to go. 00:02:59.969 --> 00:03:03.270 No glory, just the environment itself crushing 00:03:03.270 --> 00:03:05.650 you. And it threw the family into immediate poverty. 00:03:05.849 --> 00:03:08.370 And that poverty is really the key driver of 00:03:08.370 --> 00:03:11.189 his early life. It's what forced Kit, at age 00:03:11.189 --> 00:03:14.430 14 or 15, into an apprenticeship. He was bound 00:03:14.430 --> 00:03:17.449 to a man named David Workman. To learn the saddler's 00:03:17.449 --> 00:03:19.849 trade. So imagine being that kid. You're a teenager 00:03:19.849 --> 00:03:22.509 just full of energy and you're stuck indoors 00:03:22.509 --> 00:03:25.710 stitching leather all day while the entire world 00:03:25.710 --> 00:03:27.469 is happening right outside your door. And that 00:03:27.469 --> 00:03:29.990 shop was a hub. I mean, who's coming in? Trappers, 00:03:30.169 --> 00:03:32.310 traders, explorers. They're getting their gear 00:03:32.310 --> 00:03:34.229 fixed before heading out on the Santa Fe Trail. 00:03:34.449 --> 00:03:36.310 So he's hearing all these stories. Oh, absolutely. 00:03:36.650 --> 00:03:38.750 Stories of the Shining Mountains, of buffalo 00:03:38.750 --> 00:03:41.430 herds that take three days to pass a single point, 00:03:41.490 --> 00:03:44.849 of dangerous encounters and, you know, incredible 00:03:44.849 --> 00:03:46.759 freedom. It was interesting. Intoxicating. Carson 00:03:46.759 --> 00:03:48.539 hated the work. He couldn't handle the confinement. 00:03:48.979 --> 00:03:53.080 So in 1826, at 16 years old, he runs away. Against 00:03:53.080 --> 00:03:55.219 his mother's wishes, he joins a caravan heading 00:03:55.219 --> 00:03:57.939 west. And this leads to my absolute favorite 00:03:57.939 --> 00:04:01.439 detail from his early years. Usually, when an 00:04:01.439 --> 00:04:04.139 apprentice runs away, the master is furious. 00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:07.500 He wants his labor back. So... David Workman 00:04:07.500 --> 00:04:09.819 puts an ad in the newspaper. Right, offering 00:04:09.819 --> 00:04:12.759 a reward for Kit's return. A very specific reward. 00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:16.079 One cent. One cent. Just a single penny. To anyone 00:04:16.079 --> 00:04:18.860 who brings back the boy. And that ad actually 00:04:18.860 --> 00:04:20.800 gives us the first printed description of him. 00:04:21.060 --> 00:04:24.439 Thick set, light hair. It was basically a joke. 00:04:24.439 --> 00:04:26.079 Nobody was going to chase him down for a penny. 00:04:26.220 --> 00:04:28.779 It tells you exactly how much value he was perceived 00:04:28.779 --> 00:04:30.980 to have at that moment. But that penny bought 00:04:30.980 --> 00:04:33.879 his freedom. He makes it to Santa Fe and eventually 00:04:33.879 --> 00:04:36.819 settles in Taos, New Mexico. And Taos really 00:04:36.819 --> 00:04:38.959 becomes his home base for the rest of his life. 00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:40.759 This is where the mountain man phase begins, 00:04:40.899 --> 00:04:42.680 right? The part of his life we all think we know. 00:04:42.839 --> 00:04:47.480 Exactly. From about 1829 to 1841, Carson is living 00:04:47.480 --> 00:04:49.839 the life that we see in movies. But he didn't 00:04:49.839 --> 00:04:52.019 just stumble into it. He had to learn the trade. 00:04:52.259 --> 00:04:55.439 He had mentors. He did. He was mentored by some 00:04:55.439 --> 00:04:57.779 of the legends of the era, guys like Ewing Young 00:04:57.779 --> 00:05:00.339 and Matthew Kincaid. He was like a sponge. He 00:05:00.339 --> 00:05:02.839 learned trapping, sure. but he also learned languages. 00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:06.100 He picked up Spanish, French, and multiple Native 00:05:06.100 --> 00:05:09.180 American dialects. For an illiterate man, his 00:05:09.180 --> 00:05:12.139 linguistic capacity was extraordinary. And the 00:05:12.139 --> 00:05:15.459 sources paint a picture of a life that was just 00:05:15.459 --> 00:05:18.399 incredibly brutal. We tend to romanticize the 00:05:18.399 --> 00:05:21.379 mountain man as this free spirit, you know, answering 00:05:21.379 --> 00:05:24.740 to no one, but the economics of it. The economics 00:05:24.740 --> 00:05:27.560 were terrible. They were effectively gig workers 00:05:27.560 --> 00:05:30.100 in a very harsh corporate system. They were part 00:05:30.100 --> 00:05:32.060 of what was called the rendezvous system. How 00:05:32.060 --> 00:05:33.759 did that work exactly? Well, they'd spend all 00:05:33.759 --> 00:05:36.399 year trapping beavers, usually alone or in small 00:05:36.399 --> 00:05:39.160 pairs, waist deep in freezing streams, facing 00:05:39.160 --> 00:05:41.920 constant danger. Then, once a year, they'd all 00:05:41.920 --> 00:05:44.500 meet the company wagons from St. Louis at a designated 00:05:44.500 --> 00:05:46.660 spot, the rendezvous. And that's where the traps 00:05:46.660 --> 00:05:48.939 snapped shut. That's a good way to put it. The 00:05:48.939 --> 00:05:50.740 company set the price for the pelts, which was 00:05:50.740 --> 00:05:52.920 always low. And then they set the price for the 00:05:52.920 --> 00:05:54.939 goods the trappers needed to survive another 00:05:54.939 --> 00:05:58.759 year. Flour, coffee, gunpowder, fish hooks, which 00:05:58.759 --> 00:06:01.439 was astronomically high. It's the classic company 00:06:01.439 --> 00:06:04.019 store model. You spend your entire year's earnings 00:06:04.019 --> 00:06:06.079 just to buy the supplies to survive the next 00:06:06.079 --> 00:06:09.120 year. You're always in debt. Exactly. Most trappers 00:06:09.120 --> 00:06:11.680 were. But for Carson, it was still a world away 00:06:11.680 --> 00:06:13.899 from the saddle shop. And the physical danger 00:06:13.899 --> 00:06:15.959 was constant. You mentioned the bear earlier. 00:06:16.220 --> 00:06:19.199 That wasn't just a hype. There is a famous account 00:06:19.199 --> 00:06:23.259 from 1834 where Carson is out hunting elk alone. 00:06:23.600 --> 00:06:26.839 Can you set the scene for us? Sure. He spots 00:06:26.839 --> 00:06:29.220 some elk, fires a shot, but then immediately 00:06:29.220 --> 00:06:32.560 realizes he's not alone. He runs into two grizzly 00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:34.579 bears. And these aren't the bears you see at 00:06:34.579 --> 00:06:37.639 the zoo. These are hungry, aggressive apex predators. 00:06:37.980 --> 00:06:40.420 And they chase him. They do. He has to scramble 00:06:40.420 --> 00:06:43.220 up a tree just in time, a little aspen tree, 00:06:43.300 --> 00:06:45.839 so not exactly a fortress. One bear eventually 00:06:45.839 --> 00:06:48.420 gave up, but the other stayed for hours, clawing 00:06:48.420 --> 00:06:50.720 at the bark, trying to shake him down. Carson 00:06:50.720 --> 00:06:53.339 later dictated in his memoirs that he had never 00:06:53.339 --> 00:06:56.339 been so scared in life. But beyond nature, the 00:06:56.339 --> 00:06:59.100 defining struggle of this period was his relationship 00:06:59.100 --> 00:07:02.060 with Native American tribes. And this is where 00:07:02.060 --> 00:07:04.160 we have to be really careful not to simplify 00:07:04.160 --> 00:07:06.160 things. It wasn't just Carson versus the Indians. 00:07:06.569 --> 00:07:09.709 No, not at all. It was a complex web of alliances 00:07:09.709 --> 00:07:12.930 and enmities. The mountain men were intruders, 00:07:12.949 --> 00:07:15.350 certainly, but they inserted themselves into 00:07:15.350 --> 00:07:18.410 existing geopolitical rivalries. Carson lived 00:07:18.410 --> 00:07:20.750 among tribes, he traded with them, and he married 00:07:20.750 --> 00:07:23.509 into them. But he also fought certain tribes 00:07:23.509 --> 00:07:27.129 with lethal efficiency. Specifically the Blackfoot. 00:07:27.329 --> 00:07:29.230 Right. The Blackfoot were viewed as the mortal 00:07:29.230 --> 00:07:32.230 enemy by many trappers, largely because the Blackfoot 00:07:32.230 --> 00:07:34.670 fiercely and effectively defended their territory 00:07:34.670 --> 00:07:37.519 against this economic... extraction. There's 00:07:37.519 --> 00:07:40.699 a really disturbing account from 1838. Carson 00:07:40.699 --> 00:07:43.199 is traveling with Jim Bridger, another titan 00:07:43.199 --> 00:07:45.339 of the era. They come across a Blackfoot village 00:07:45.339 --> 00:07:48.339 that has been decimated by smallpox. So this 00:07:48.339 --> 00:07:50.839 is a horror show. Bodies in the teepees. The 00:07:50.839 --> 00:07:53.519 village is literally dying. It is. And Bridger, 00:07:53.600 --> 00:07:55.819 who was a pragmatist, wanted to move on. He was 00:07:55.819 --> 00:07:57.639 likely afraid of the disease, if nothing else, 00:07:57.660 --> 00:08:00.220 but Carson. Carson and the younger men wanted 00:08:00.220 --> 00:08:02.500 a fight. They attacked the village. An already 00:08:02.500 --> 00:08:05.459 dying village. Yes. And Carson later called it 00:08:05.459 --> 00:08:08.060 the prettiest fight I ever saw. That quote is 00:08:08.060 --> 00:08:10.259 so difficult to digest. The prettiest fight? 00:08:10.600 --> 00:08:13.600 It shows a kind of... A callousness that was 00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:15.839 typical of the mountain man culture of that specific 00:08:15.839 --> 00:08:18.240 time. It was a sport to them. It was, but then 00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:20.220 you have to juxtapose that violence with his 00:08:20.220 --> 00:08:22.600 personal life, especially his marriages, which 00:08:22.600 --> 00:08:24.699 suggests a very different kind of integration. 00:08:25.220 --> 00:08:28.180 His first wife was an Arapaho woman named Waniba, 00:08:28.339 --> 00:08:30.980 or Singing Grass. And that relationship wasn't 00:08:30.980 --> 00:08:33.080 casual. He didn't just take a wife in the way 00:08:33.080 --> 00:08:35.000 some trappers did. He actually fought a duel 00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:37.679 for her. This is a scene straight out of a Western. 00:08:38.360 --> 00:08:41.559 A French trapper named Chouinard was harassing 00:08:41.559 --> 00:08:45.100 Wanibi, making unwanted advances. Carson didn't 00:08:45.100 --> 00:08:46.679 just tell him to knock it off. He challenged 00:08:46.679 --> 00:08:49.580 him to a duel. They rode at each other on horseback, 00:08:49.700 --> 00:08:52.220 pistols drawn. Talk about high stakes. Incredibly 00:08:52.220 --> 00:08:55.059 high. Carson shot the Frenchman's thumb off. 00:08:55.259 --> 00:08:58.039 The Frenchman's bullet grazed Carson's face and 00:08:58.039 --> 00:09:00.740 singed his hair. It was inches from ending his 00:09:00.740 --> 00:09:03.100 story right there. But he won her hand, so to 00:09:03.100 --> 00:09:05.460 speak. Wanibi and Carson had a daughter, Adeline. 00:09:06.200 --> 00:09:08.519 But sadly, Wanibi died after childbirth a few 00:09:08.519 --> 00:09:11.000 years later. He then married a Cheyenne woman 00:09:11.000 --> 00:09:14.600 named Making Out Road, but that was short -lived. 00:09:14.799 --> 00:09:17.679 Very short -lived. And I love the detail about 00:09:17.679 --> 00:09:20.059 how that marriage ended. It says a lot about 00:09:20.059 --> 00:09:23.019 the agency of Native women at the time. She divorced 00:09:23.019 --> 00:09:25.500 him, according to a Cheyenne custom. Which was? 00:09:25.740 --> 00:09:28.240 She simply put all his property and their child, 00:09:28.419 --> 00:09:31.519 Adeline, outside the tent. Universal sign for 00:09:31.519 --> 00:09:34.929 you're out. A very clear message. There was no 00:09:34.929 --> 00:09:38.250 ambiguity there. But his third marriage to Josefa 00:09:38.250 --> 00:09:41.309 Jaramillo in 1843 was the one that lasted. She 00:09:41.309 --> 00:09:43.610 was from a prominent Hispano family in Taos. 00:09:43.690 --> 00:09:48.059 He was 33. She was just 14. Not uncommon for 00:09:48.059 --> 00:09:50.120 the time and place. Correct. And to marry her, 00:09:50.200 --> 00:09:52.179 he actually converted to Catholicism and was 00:09:52.179 --> 00:09:54.879 baptized. This marriage was a huge step for him 00:09:54.879 --> 00:09:57.340 socially. It connected him deeply to the established 00:09:57.340 --> 00:09:59.620 culture of New Mexico. It moved him from being 00:09:59.620 --> 00:10:01.940 an outsider, a gringo trapper, to being part 00:10:01.940 --> 00:10:05.080 of the fabric of Taos society. So by the early 00:10:05.080 --> 00:10:07.899 1840s, the bottom has fallen out of the beaver 00:10:07.899 --> 00:10:11.159 market. Completely. Silk hats became the fashion 00:10:11.159 --> 00:10:13.519 in Europe, and the demand for beaver pelts just 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:17.330 evaporated. The era of the mountain man was effectively 00:10:17.330 --> 00:10:21.090 over. Carson needed a new job. He started working 00:10:21.090 --> 00:10:23.450 as a hunter for Bent's Fort for a dollar a day. 00:10:23.610 --> 00:10:26.509 He's a respected, capable guy, but nobody outside 00:10:26.509 --> 00:10:28.629 the frontier knows who he is. Until a chance 00:10:28.629 --> 00:10:31.190 meeting on a steamboat changes everything. Enter 00:10:31.190 --> 00:10:34.350 John C. Fremont. The Pathfinder. Or, as some 00:10:34.350 --> 00:10:36.830 historians might argue, the Great Self -Promoter. 00:10:37.609 --> 00:10:40.409 In 1842, Carson is on a boat on the Missouri 00:10:40.409 --> 00:10:43.149 River heading back to visit his daughter. He 00:10:43.149 --> 00:10:45.210 runs into Fremont, who is an ambitious lieutenant 00:10:45.210 --> 00:10:47.350 in the Army's Corps of Topographical Engineers. 00:10:48.070 --> 00:10:49.950 Fremont's looking for a guide for his expedition 00:10:49.950 --> 00:10:52.789 to map the Oregon Trail. And Carson just happens 00:10:52.789 --> 00:10:55.110 to be there. Right place, right time. Carson 00:10:55.110 --> 00:10:57.330 introduces himself, modestly saying he has some 00:10:57.330 --> 00:10:59.470 experience in the mountains. Fremont likes his 00:10:59.470 --> 00:11:01.690 quiet, capable demeanor and hires him on the 00:11:01.690 --> 00:11:05.450 spot for $100 a month. Which was huge money compared 00:11:05.450 --> 00:11:08.169 to hunting buffalo for a dollar a day. It was 00:11:08.169 --> 00:11:09.990 life -changing. But the money wasn't the real 00:11:09.990 --> 00:11:13.019 payoff. The real payoff was the publicity. Fremont 00:11:13.019 --> 00:11:15.820 was a meticulous record keeper, and his wife, 00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:18.220 Jessie Benton Fremont, was a brilliant writer 00:11:18.220 --> 00:11:21.399 and political operator. She took Fremont's dry 00:11:21.399 --> 00:11:23.659 government reports and polished them into these 00:11:23.659 --> 00:11:26.759 romantic, high -adventure narratives that absolutely 00:11:26.759 --> 00:11:29.360 captivated the American public. And Carson was 00:11:29.360 --> 00:11:31.460 the co -star of these stories. He was the hero, 00:11:31.500 --> 00:11:33.899 really. These reports were bestsellers. They 00:11:33.899 --> 00:11:36.340 fueled what was called organ fever, encouraging 00:11:36.340 --> 00:11:39.559 thousands of settlers to head west. And in these 00:11:39.559 --> 00:11:42.500 stories, Carson is the steady hand. the fearless 00:11:42.500 --> 00:11:45.940 scout. When Fremont is impulsive or in over his 00:11:45.940 --> 00:11:48.960 head, Carson is the rock. He's the one who knows 00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:50.740 what to do. We have to talk about some of the 00:11:50.740 --> 00:11:53.080 specific exploits from these expeditions because 00:11:53.080 --> 00:11:55.539 they are what made him famous. There's the rescue 00:11:55.539 --> 00:11:59.580 in the Mojave Desert in 1843. This is the quintessential 00:11:59.580 --> 00:12:02.279 hero moment. It's almost too cinematic to be 00:12:02.279 --> 00:12:05.360 true, but it happened. Fremont's party comes 00:12:05.360 --> 00:12:08.139 across a Mexican man and a boy who are in shock. 00:12:08.379 --> 00:12:10.980 Their party had been ambushed by a group of Native 00:12:10.980 --> 00:12:13.799 Americans. The men in their group had been killed 00:12:13.799 --> 00:12:17.379 and the women were. While they were staked to 00:12:17.379 --> 00:12:19.960 the ground and mutilated, it was a scene of absolute 00:12:19.960 --> 00:12:23.070 horror. And Carson reacts instantly. Instantly, 00:12:23.149 --> 00:12:25.990 he and another scout, a man named Alexis Godey, 00:12:26.110 --> 00:12:28.450 rode after the attackers, just the two of them. 00:12:28.570 --> 00:12:30.549 They tracked them for miles, found their camp, 00:12:30.789 --> 00:12:33.350 killed two of them in a surprise attack, scalped 00:12:33.350 --> 00:12:35.889 them, and recovered the stolen horses. When people 00:12:35.889 --> 00:12:38.250 back east read that, it solidified him as this 00:12:38.250 --> 00:12:41.870 avenging angel of the West. But looking at the 00:12:41.870 --> 00:12:44.029 sources, the Fremont expeditions also have a 00:12:44.029 --> 00:12:46.669 very, very dark side. There are incidents that 00:12:46.669 --> 00:12:49.190 look less like heroism and more like massacres. 00:12:49.210 --> 00:12:51.210 We cannot ignore this part of the story. The 00:12:51.210 --> 00:12:54.169 Sacramento River Massacre in 1846 is a key event. 00:12:54.690 --> 00:12:57.090 Fremont's party, feeling an attack based on what 00:12:57.090 --> 00:12:59.549 seems to be very shaky intelligence, launched 00:12:59.549 --> 00:13:02.029 a preemptive strike on a Wintu village. A village 00:13:02.029 --> 00:13:04.169 that might not have even been hostile. Exactly. 00:13:04.289 --> 00:13:07.830 They killed somewhere between 120 and 300 men, 00:13:07.950 --> 00:13:11.029 women, and children. And Carson himself, in his 00:13:11.029 --> 00:13:14.450 own memoirs, later described it as a perfect 00:13:14.450 --> 00:13:17.340 butchery. Perfect butchery. He recognized the 00:13:17.340 --> 00:13:19.360 slaughter for what it was. And then there's the 00:13:19.360 --> 00:13:22.000 Klamath Lake incident. Yes. Fremont's camp was 00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:24.299 attacked at night by a group of Klamath warriors 00:13:24.299 --> 00:13:27.679 and three of his men were killed. In retaliation 00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:30.519 the next day, they found a nearby Klamath village, 00:13:30.639 --> 00:13:32.620 which again likely had nothing to do with the 00:13:32.620 --> 00:13:35.679 initial attack, and destroyed it. Carson was 00:13:35.679 --> 00:13:38.480 reportedly so enraged over the death of his friends 00:13:38.480 --> 00:13:40.519 that he took an axe and knocked the head of a 00:13:40.519 --> 00:13:43.080 dead Native American to pieces. It's visceral 00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:46.019 and brutal. It shows a rage that really contradicts 00:13:46.019 --> 00:13:47.759 the gentle voice descriptions we heard earlier. 00:13:47.879 --> 00:13:50.000 It does. And then a little later, during the 00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:52.700 Bear Flag Revolt in California, under Fremont's 00:13:52.700 --> 00:13:55.620 orders, Carson executed three unarmed civilians. 00:13:56.019 --> 00:13:59.259 An old Californian man named Beresa and his two 00:13:59.259 --> 00:14:01.399 nephews. They were just carrying a message. And 00:14:01.399 --> 00:14:03.919 the order was to take no prisoners. Fremont told 00:14:03.919 --> 00:14:06.500 him, I have no room for prisoners, so Carson 00:14:06.500 --> 00:14:09.840 executed them. It suggests a man who, for all 00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:12.960 his personal courage and skill, was also a soldier 00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:15.320 following orders. He could shut off his moral 00:14:15.320 --> 00:14:17.179 compass when the chain of command was involved. 00:14:17.480 --> 00:14:19.120 But speaking of that courage, though, we have 00:14:19.120 --> 00:14:20.960 to mention the barefoot run during the Mexican 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:23.539 -American War. This is arguably his most famous 00:14:23.539 --> 00:14:27.230 military feat, and it's pure heroism. This is 00:14:27.230 --> 00:14:31.330 the Battle of San Pascual, December 1846. General 00:14:31.330 --> 00:14:34.529 Kearney's Army of the West is surrounded by Mexican 00:14:34.529 --> 00:14:38.149 Lancers. They are pinned down on a hill, starving 00:14:38.149 --> 00:14:41.129 and running out of water. They're making tea 00:14:41.129 --> 00:14:43.889 out of mule urine. It's a desperate situation. 00:14:44.330 --> 00:14:45.669 And they need to get a message to the American 00:14:45.669 --> 00:14:48.190 forces in San Diego. Right. It's a suicide mission. 00:14:48.769 --> 00:14:51.250 So Carson, along with a lieutenant named Beale 00:14:51.250 --> 00:14:54.330 and an Indian scout, volunteer. They sneak out 00:14:54.330 --> 00:14:56.269 at night, crawling through the Mexican lines. 00:14:56.549 --> 00:14:58.710 To be quiet, they had to take their shoes off 00:14:58.710 --> 00:15:00.309 and tie them around their necks. And they lost 00:15:00.309 --> 00:15:02.309 them. They lost the shoes, so they had to walk 00:15:02.309 --> 00:15:05.429 25 miles barefoot through a landscape filled 00:15:05.429 --> 00:15:08.710 with cactus and sharp volcanic rock. Carson said 00:15:08.710 --> 00:15:10.690 later that his feet were so full of prickly pear 00:15:10.690 --> 00:15:12.669 spines he could hardly walk for weeks after. 00:15:12.850 --> 00:15:15.710 But they made it. They got through. They delivered 00:15:15.710 --> 00:15:18.279 the message, and the relief column arrived. And 00:15:18.279 --> 00:15:20.399 the irony is just incredible. After all that, 00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:22.799 Carson gets sent to Washington, D .C. as a courier 00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:24.799 to deliver news of the victory in California. 00:15:25.259 --> 00:15:27.500 He thinks he's just a scout delivering the mail. 00:15:27.700 --> 00:15:30.000 He arrives in the capital and he discovers he's 00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:32.600 a national superstar. The accidental celebrity. 00:15:32.840 --> 00:15:35.519 By the late 1840s, the dime novel industry was 00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:37.860 taking off and these sensationalist writers needed 00:15:37.860 --> 00:15:40.899 a hero. They latched onto the name Kit Carson 00:15:40.899 --> 00:15:43.700 from Fremont's reports. This brings us to the 00:15:43.700 --> 00:15:45.980 myth versus man section of our deep dive. The 00:15:45.980 --> 00:15:48.500 dime novels are, well, they're hilarious. They 00:15:48.500 --> 00:15:52.019 depict him as this giant, a six foot tall Hercules 00:15:52.019 --> 00:15:55.860 slaying Indians by the hundreds. One author, 00:15:55.960 --> 00:15:58.019 Charles Averill, wrote a book called Kit Carson, 00:15:58.259 --> 00:16:00.700 The Prince of the Gold Hunters. And Carson hated 00:16:00.700 --> 00:16:03.860 them. He was a practical, modest man who valued 00:16:03.860 --> 00:16:06.960 competence and truth. He found the stories embarrassing. 00:16:07.559 --> 00:16:09.740 When he was shown one of these books, he famously 00:16:09.740 --> 00:16:13.240 said, every statement made is false. But there 00:16:13.240 --> 00:16:16.259 is a really tragic side to this fame, too. The 00:16:16.259 --> 00:16:19.159 story of Anne White. This one. This one really 00:16:19.159 --> 00:16:21.019 hit me when I was reading the sources. It's a 00:16:21.019 --> 00:16:24.659 haunting story. It's 1849. Carson is guiding 00:16:24.659 --> 00:16:27.279 a group of soldiers to rescue a woman named Anne 00:16:27.279 --> 00:16:29.759 White and her child, who had been captured by 00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:32.440 Hickorilla Apaches. The soldiers spotted the 00:16:32.440 --> 00:16:34.519 Apache camp, and Carson, with his experience, 00:16:34.820 --> 00:16:37.159 urged the commanding officer to attack immediately. 00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:39.840 But the officer hesitated. He wanted to be more 00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:43.169 cautious, to get organized. He dallied. And in 00:16:43.169 --> 00:16:45.710 that delay, the Apaches killed Anne White. By 00:16:45.710 --> 00:16:47.549 the time the soldiers finally charged, it was 00:16:47.549 --> 00:16:49.450 too late. And they were going through the abandoned 00:16:49.450 --> 00:16:52.149 camp. Carson found a book lying on the ground 00:16:52.149 --> 00:16:54.330 near her body. It was one of those dime novels, 00:16:54.450 --> 00:16:56.649 a book featuring a fictional superhero version 00:16:56.649 --> 00:16:59.909 of Kit Carson. That is just devastating. He was 00:16:59.909 --> 00:17:02.309 haunted by it for the rest of his life. He was 00:17:02.309 --> 00:17:04.170 tormented by the thought that Anne White might 00:17:04.170 --> 00:17:06.269 have read that book during her captivity, that 00:17:06.269 --> 00:17:08.690 she might have held on to hope thinking the real 00:17:08.690 --> 00:17:11.849 Kit Carson is coming and he never fails. And 00:17:11.849 --> 00:17:14.890 then the real human Carson arrived. But he was 00:17:14.890 --> 00:17:17.369 bound by the hesitation of a superior officer 00:17:17.369 --> 00:17:20.289 and he failed her. The weight of his own myth 00:17:20.289 --> 00:17:23.170 actually crushing him in a way. It stayed with 00:17:23.170 --> 00:17:26.109 him. And it's funny, even his own memoirs were 00:17:26.109 --> 00:17:28.750 subject to this kind of polishing. Carson, as 00:17:28.750 --> 00:17:30.829 we said, was illiterate. He threw down my spelling 00:17:30.829 --> 00:17:34.009 book to fight Indians, as he put it. So he dictated 00:17:34.009 --> 00:17:36.650 his memoirs. But they were rewritten by others, 00:17:36.769 --> 00:17:39.609 specifically a man named Dr. DeWitt Peters, to 00:17:39.609 --> 00:17:42.609 be more moral and flowery. And Carson didn't 00:17:42.609 --> 00:17:44.769 like that either. No. He complained that Peters 00:17:44.769 --> 00:17:46.849 laid it on a little too thick. He just wanted 00:17:46.849 --> 00:17:49.410 the plain facts, but the world wanted the legend. 00:17:50.250 --> 00:17:52.670 So we move into the 1850s. The fur trade is long 00:17:52.670 --> 00:17:55.430 dead. The Mexican -American War is over. Carson 00:17:55.430 --> 00:17:57.809 decides to settle down in Taos with Josefa and 00:17:57.809 --> 00:17:59.869 takes a government job. He becomes a federal 00:17:59.869 --> 00:18:02.269 Indian agent. This is a crucial pivot in his 00:18:02.269 --> 00:18:06.410 life. For seven years, from 1854 to 1861, his 00:18:06.410 --> 00:18:09.049 job is not to fight Native Americans, but to 00:18:09.049 --> 00:18:11.250 be the intermediary between the U .S. government 00:18:11.250 --> 00:18:14.670 and the Ute, the Hickory Apache, and the Paz 00:18:14.670 --> 00:18:17.430 Pueblo people. A completely different role. Completely. 00:18:17.569 --> 00:18:20.009 And because he couldn't read or write, he had 00:18:20.009 --> 00:18:22.109 to hire a secretary to handle all the paperwork. 00:18:22.390 --> 00:18:25.049 But he was apparently very effective in the field. 00:18:25.150 --> 00:18:27.589 His duties were things like preventing conflict, 00:18:27.930 --> 00:18:30.430 distributing food and clothing, and negotiating 00:18:30.430 --> 00:18:33.029 disputes over stolen livestock. And the sources 00:18:33.029 --> 00:18:35.730 suggest his views were really evolving here. 00:18:35.849 --> 00:18:38.289 He wasn't the young man looking for the prettiest 00:18:38.289 --> 00:18:41.150 fight anymore. Not at all. He advocated for fair 00:18:41.150 --> 00:18:43.809 treatment. His official reports are filled with 00:18:43.809 --> 00:18:45.450 complaints that the government wasn't sending 00:18:45.450 --> 00:18:48.049 enough food or clothing. He saw the corruption 00:18:48.049 --> 00:18:51.069 in the system up close. But, and this is a big 00:18:51.069 --> 00:18:53.750 but, he also came to a firm conclusion about 00:18:53.750 --> 00:18:56.089 the future of Native Americans. The reservation 00:18:56.089 --> 00:19:00.490 policy. Yes. Carson looked at the flood of white 00:19:00.490 --> 00:19:04.029 settlers, the miners, the farmers, and he decided 00:19:04.029 --> 00:19:06.190 that the traditional nomadic way of life was 00:19:06.190 --> 00:19:23.250 doomed. So in his mind... He thought he was saving 00:19:23.250 --> 00:19:25.789 them. He absolutely did. He viewed it as the 00:19:25.789 --> 00:19:29.289 only humane alternative to what he saw as inevitable 00:19:29.289 --> 00:19:31.869 genocide. He believed that if they stayed in 00:19:31.869 --> 00:19:33.809 the path of American expansion, they would simply 00:19:33.809 --> 00:19:37.150 be wiped out. But that belief, however well -intentioned 00:19:37.150 --> 00:19:39.410 he thought it was, led him to participate in 00:19:39.410 --> 00:19:41.789 actions that many today view as cultural genocide. 00:19:41.809 --> 00:19:44.470 Which brings us to the Civil War and the Navajo 00:19:44.470 --> 00:19:46.470 campaign. This is the heavy stuff. When the Civil 00:19:46.470 --> 00:19:48.990 War broke out, Carson sided with the Union. He 00:19:48.990 --> 00:19:51.349 did. He commanded the first New Mexico volunteer 00:19:51.349 --> 00:19:53.769 infantry. What's interesting here is that his 00:19:53.769 --> 00:19:56.109 troops were mostly Hispanic volunteers from New 00:19:56.109 --> 00:19:58.650 Mexico. The regular Army command, particularly 00:19:58.650 --> 00:20:01.430 a Colonel Candy, was very skeptical of them. 00:20:01.490 --> 00:20:02.990 They didn't think these volunteers would actually 00:20:02.990 --> 00:20:05.569 fight. But they did. They did. At the Battle 00:20:05.569 --> 00:20:08.569 of Valverde in 1862 against Confederate Texans, 00:20:08.730 --> 00:20:11.349 Carson and his men held their ground while other 00:20:11.349 --> 00:20:14.049 regular army units faltered. He was fiercely 00:20:14.049 --> 00:20:15.950 proud of them and defended them against the prejudice 00:20:15.950 --> 00:20:18.609 of the regular army officers. But once the Confederates 00:20:18.609 --> 00:20:20.589 were pushed out of New Mexico, the Union army 00:20:20.589 --> 00:20:22.950 there turned its attention back to the tribes. 00:20:23.369 --> 00:20:26.309 And a new commander arrived, General James Carlton. 00:20:26.529 --> 00:20:30.450 And Carlton was intense. Carlton was a hardliner. 00:20:30.549 --> 00:20:33.609 He believed in a scorched earth policy. He wanted 00:20:33.609 --> 00:20:35.890 a final solution to the Indian problem in New 00:20:35.890 --> 00:20:38.569 Mexico. He decided all tribes would be moved 00:20:38.569 --> 00:20:40.950 to a single reservation called Bosque Redondo. 00:20:41.369 --> 00:20:44.109 First, he ordered Carson to round up the Mescalero 00:20:44.109 --> 00:20:46.599 Apache. The order was explicit. kill all the 00:20:46.599 --> 00:20:48.480 men you can, and capture the women and children. 00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:51.059 And Carson did it. He executed the order efficiently, 00:20:51.259 --> 00:20:54.660 and by 1863, the Mescalero were moved. And then 00:20:54.660 --> 00:20:56.859 Carlton turned his full attention to the Navajo. 00:20:56.980 --> 00:21:00.980 The Navajo Campaign of 1863 to 1864. This is 00:21:00.980 --> 00:21:02.980 the defining controversy of Carson's legacy. 00:21:03.440 --> 00:21:06.460 It is. Carlton ordered Carson to take no prisoners 00:21:06.460 --> 00:21:09.279 until the Navajo surrendered. Carson knew he 00:21:09.279 --> 00:21:10.819 couldn't chase the Navajo through their vast 00:21:10.819 --> 00:21:12.980 territory. They knew the land. They were too 00:21:12.980 --> 00:21:16.480 fast. So he changed tactics. He stopped hunting 00:21:16.480 --> 00:21:18.900 men and started hunting their livelihood. Exactly. 00:21:19.180 --> 00:21:22.319 He waged economic warfare. He didn't chase the 00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:25.019 people. He destroyed their economy. He burned 00:21:25.019 --> 00:21:27.279 their hogans, destroyed their cornfields, and 00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:30.039 slaughtered their livestock, thousands of sheep 00:21:30.039 --> 00:21:33.089 and goats. The most symbolic and painful moment 00:21:33.089 --> 00:21:35.710 of this campaign was the invasion of Canyon de 00:21:35.710 --> 00:21:37.710 Chelly, which was a sacred stronghold for the 00:21:37.710 --> 00:21:40.430 Nava, a sacred place and their agricultural heartland. 00:21:40.940 --> 00:21:43.380 Carson's troops marched into the canyon in the 00:21:43.380 --> 00:21:45.559 middle of winter, and they cut down thousands 00:21:45.559 --> 00:21:48.000 of peach trees. Peach trees that had been cultivated 00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:50.160 there for generations. It wasn't just destroying 00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:52.880 food. It was destroying a connection to the land, 00:21:53.019 --> 00:21:55.960 to their ancestors. It was a devastating psychological 00:21:55.960 --> 00:21:59.000 blow, and it worked. The combination of cold 00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:02.400 and starvation broke the Navajo resistance. They 00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:05.259 began to surrender in droves, and that led to 00:22:05.259 --> 00:22:08.220 what is known today as the Long Walk. Thousands 00:22:08.220 --> 00:22:11.539 of Navajo men, women, and children were forced 00:22:11.539 --> 00:22:14.519 to walk hundreds of miles across New Mexico to 00:22:14.519 --> 00:22:17.039 this desolate reservation at Bosque Redondo. 00:22:17.500 --> 00:22:20.420 Many died along the way from exposure and hunger, 00:22:20.519 --> 00:22:22.539 and the conditions at the reservation were horrific. 00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:25.640 The water was bad, disease was rampant, the crops 00:22:25.640 --> 00:22:28.759 failed. It was a complete disaster. What was 00:22:28.759 --> 00:22:30.920 Carson's role in this part? Did he try to stop 00:22:30.920 --> 00:22:33.720 it? The sources show he was weary of it. He actually 00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:35.779 tried to resign. He was tired. His health was 00:22:35.779 --> 00:22:37.660 failing. And he didn't seem to have the stomach 00:22:37.660 --> 00:22:40.299 for the kind of total war Carlton was demanding. 00:22:40.920 --> 00:22:43.559 But he was a soldier. He followed orders. And 00:22:43.559 --> 00:22:45.799 because he was the face of the campaign, he is 00:22:45.799 --> 00:22:47.799 the one who carries the historical blame for 00:22:47.799 --> 00:22:50.079 the long walk. It's so interesting that while 00:22:50.079 --> 00:22:52.279 he is remembered for the brutality of the Navajo 00:22:52.279 --> 00:22:55.279 campaign, his military career actually ended 00:22:55.279 --> 00:22:57.880 with a battle where he saved his men by not attacking. 00:22:58.279 --> 00:23:01.599 The first battle of Adobe Walls in 1864. This 00:23:01.599 --> 00:23:04.400 is a fascinating tactical moment. Carson led 00:23:04.400 --> 00:23:06.640 a force against the Kiowa and Comanche in the 00:23:06.640 --> 00:23:08.680 Texas Panhandle. He thought he was attacking 00:23:08.680 --> 00:23:11.299 a small village, but he stumbled into a massive 00:23:11.299 --> 00:23:13.400 encampment. We're talking over a thousand warriors. 00:23:13.640 --> 00:23:15.700 This is a Custer at Little Beadhorn situation 00:23:15.700 --> 00:23:18.579 waiting to happen. It was almost exactly that 00:23:18.579 --> 00:23:21.140 scenario, a decade before Custer. But unlike 00:23:21.140 --> 00:23:23.900 Custer, Carson immediately realized he was massively 00:23:23.900 --> 00:23:26.579 outnumbered and outmatched. He ordered a fighting 00:23:26.579 --> 00:23:29.779 retreat. He used his two small howitzers to provide 00:23:29.779 --> 00:23:32.859 covering fire and expertly withdrew his men. 00:23:33.119 --> 00:23:35.740 It was considered a brilliant tactical retreat 00:23:35.740 --> 00:23:38.019 that saved his command from annihilation. But 00:23:38.019 --> 00:23:39.680 his health was catching up with him by this point. 00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:42.500 It was. He was appointed a brigadier general, 00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:45.680 then commanded Fort Garland in Colorado, but 00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:49.319 he was declining rapidly. He had an aortic aneurysm 00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:51.299 that was pressing on his windpipe, making it 00:23:51.299 --> 00:23:53.789 hard to breathe. Yet he made one last trip to 00:23:53.789 --> 00:23:57.390 Washington, D .C. in 1868. He did. He went with 00:23:57.390 --> 00:23:59.990 a delegation of Ute chiefs to plead for government 00:23:59.990 --> 00:24:02.670 assistance for their people. He saw himself as 00:24:02.670 --> 00:24:06.009 their advocate. The long, hard journey just worsened 00:24:06.009 --> 00:24:08.349 his condition. He returned to Colorado and then 00:24:08.349 --> 00:24:11.150 tragedy struck his family again. His wife, Josefa, 00:24:11.190 --> 00:24:13.369 died shortly after giving birth to their eighth 00:24:13.369 --> 00:24:16.750 child. Carson was devastated and his own health 00:24:16.750 --> 00:24:19.470 collapsed completely. He died just a month later 00:24:19.470 --> 00:24:22.970 in May of 1868. His last words were fitting for 00:24:22.970 --> 00:24:25.309 a man who straddled so many worlds. He said, 00:24:25.369 --> 00:24:28.890 goodbye, friends. Adios, compadres. So when we 00:24:28.890 --> 00:24:30.890 look at his legacy, it's just a roller coaster. 00:24:31.009 --> 00:24:34.009 Let's trace that reputation shift. In the 19th 00:24:34.009 --> 00:24:36.529 and early 20th century, he was the untarnished 00:24:36.529 --> 00:24:39.160 hero. the symbol of manifest destiny. You had 00:24:39.160 --> 00:24:41.799 statues, Kit Carson days, towns and rivers named 00:24:41.799 --> 00:24:44.440 after him. The message was he led the way. And 00:24:44.440 --> 00:24:46.859 then in the late 20th century, the pendulum swung 00:24:46.859 --> 00:24:49.180 hard the other way. The bury my heart at wounded 00:24:49.180 --> 00:24:51.299 knee era reassessed the history of the West. 00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:54.700 Carson was recast as the villain, a genocidal 00:24:54.700 --> 00:24:57.240 racist. There was a symposium in Taos in the 00:24:57.240 --> 00:24:59.220 90s where people debated whether he was a hero 00:24:59.220 --> 00:25:01.440 or just a butcher. And today, where do most historians 00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:04.539 land? Today, there's more nuance. Historians 00:25:04.539 --> 00:25:06.920 like Hamptonsides and David Roberts argue he 00:25:06.920 --> 00:25:09.519 is neither a perfect hero nor a cartoon villain. 00:25:09.920 --> 00:25:12.539 He was a complex man of his time who evolved. 00:25:12.920 --> 00:25:15.039 He went from a young man who killed Blackfeet 00:25:15.039 --> 00:25:17.740 for sport to an old man who defended the Utes. 00:25:17.839 --> 00:25:20.720 And yet, he's the same man who executed the brutal 00:25:20.720 --> 00:25:23.579 Navajo policy, believing it was the only alternative 00:25:23.579 --> 00:25:26.359 to their total extinction. It raises a final, 00:25:26.420 --> 00:25:28.740 really provocative question. If Kit Carson had 00:25:28.740 --> 00:25:31.630 died in 1848, right after the Mexican -American 00:25:31.630 --> 00:25:34.670 War, he would be remembered solely as the daring 00:25:34.670 --> 00:25:38.349 explorer, the hero of Fremont's reports. Because 00:25:38.349 --> 00:25:40.309 he lived to serve the government's policies in 00:25:40.309 --> 00:25:42.769 the 1860s, he became a signal of oppression. 00:25:43.289 --> 00:25:45.069 It makes you wonder how much of a historical 00:25:45.069 --> 00:25:47.670 figure's legacy is defined by their own choices 00:25:47.670 --> 00:25:49.809 versus the orders they are compelled to follow. 00:25:49.930 --> 00:25:51.730 That is the central question of his life, isn't 00:25:51.730 --> 00:25:54.029 it? Where does the man end and the historical 00:25:54.029 --> 00:25:56.710 forces begin? That's it for this deep dive. Thanks 00:25:56.710 --> 00:25:57.069 for listening.