WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.879 Welcome back to another deep dive. Today we are 00:00:02.879 --> 00:00:05.240 looking at someone who I think a lot of people 00:00:05.240 --> 00:00:07.839 recognize instantly, but maybe don't actually 00:00:07.839 --> 00:00:10.580 know. You see the flat top haircut, the angular 00:00:10.580 --> 00:00:13.660 suit, that scowl that could cut glass, and you 00:00:13.660 --> 00:00:16.940 think icon. Right. You think performance art. 00:00:17.059 --> 00:00:20.000 You think Bond villain. But who is the person 00:00:20.000 --> 00:00:23.039 inside that suit? We are talking about the one 00:00:23.039 --> 00:00:25.600 and only Grace Jones. it's such a fascinating 00:00:25.600 --> 00:00:28.219 subject because for so many people grace jones 00:00:28.219 --> 00:00:32.579 is an image first and um a human being second 00:00:32.579 --> 00:00:35.759 exactly she's this hyper stylized entity part 00:00:35.759 --> 00:00:39.679 amazonian warrior part disco queen part i don't 00:00:39.679 --> 00:00:42.229 know walking art object right But the sources 00:00:42.229 --> 00:00:44.270 we're looking at today, especially her own memoir, 00:00:44.409 --> 00:00:46.649 I'll Never Write My Memoirs, along with biographical 00:00:46.649 --> 00:00:49.070 data, discography notes, they tell a much, much 00:00:49.070 --> 00:00:52.170 more complex story. Yes. And our mission today 00:00:52.170 --> 00:00:55.130 is to unpack that human story. We want to figure 00:00:55.130 --> 00:00:57.850 out how this shy girl from a very strict religious 00:00:57.850 --> 00:01:00.630 upbringing in Jamaica ended up conquering the 00:01:00.630 --> 00:01:03.329 Parisian fashion world, the New York nightlife 00:01:03.329 --> 00:01:07.019 scene, and then eventually Hollywood. It is a 00:01:07.019 --> 00:01:09.200 journey from the church pew to the disco floor. 00:01:09.519 --> 00:01:12.219 And trust me, there are some serious twists along 00:01:12.219 --> 00:01:14.400 the way. It really is a collision of worlds. 00:01:14.599 --> 00:01:17.180 I mean, you have the strict Pentecostal faith 00:01:17.180 --> 00:01:20.859 of her childhood just smashing right into the 00:01:20.859 --> 00:01:24.420 absolute hedonism of the 70s and 80s. And somehow 00:01:24.420 --> 00:01:26.620 she comes out the other side. She doesn't just 00:01:26.620 --> 00:01:27.980 come out the other side. She sort of emerges 00:01:27.980 --> 00:01:30.540 from that collision as this completely singular. 00:01:31.319 --> 00:01:33.620 pop culture entity. There's no one like her. 00:01:33.739 --> 00:01:37.319 And the sheer breadth of her influence is just 00:01:37.319 --> 00:01:40.159 staggering when you lay it all out. I mean, she's 00:01:40.159 --> 00:01:42.400 a Bond girl, a Bond villain, actually. A much 00:01:42.400 --> 00:01:44.019 better villain than a Bond girl, I think. Oh, 00:01:44.040 --> 00:01:46.739 for sure. She's a disco pioneer. She's a new 00:01:46.739 --> 00:01:49.579 wave icon, amused to artists like Keith Haring 00:01:49.579 --> 00:01:52.459 and Andy Warhol. And she is a walking contradiction. 00:01:52.500 --> 00:01:54.540 That's what I love about this story. She is the 00:01:54.540 --> 00:01:57.019 daughter of a preacher who became the queen of 00:01:57.019 --> 00:01:59.099 gay discos. It doesn't make any sense on paper. 00:01:59.480 --> 00:02:02.459 None. She was a muse who is described by her 00:02:02.459 --> 00:02:06.340 own creative partner, her lover, as beautiful 00:02:06.340 --> 00:02:09.360 and grotesque. It's those tensions, you know, 00:02:09.379 --> 00:02:12.159 that make her so endlessly interesting. So let's 00:02:12.159 --> 00:02:14.280 go back to the very beginning. Because if you 00:02:14.280 --> 00:02:16.659 think Grace Jones just, you know, popped out 00:02:16.659 --> 00:02:18.599 of the womb wearing a tuxedo and holding a microphone, 00:02:18.759 --> 00:02:21.599 you are very wrong. Very wrong. She was born 00:02:21.599 --> 00:02:25.479 in 1948 in Spanish Town, Jamaica. Okay, so talk 00:02:25.479 --> 00:02:26.939 about the family dynamic because you said it 00:02:26.939 --> 00:02:29.509 was crucial. Right. it is absolutely crucial 00:02:29.509 --> 00:02:32.430 to understanding her entire psyche her father 00:02:32.430 --> 00:02:36.250 robert w jones was a local politician and a clergyman 00:02:36.250 --> 00:02:40.050 a bishop actually wow but the uh the defining 00:02:40.050 --> 00:02:41.710 event of her childhood the thing that really 00:02:41.710 --> 00:02:44.289 shaped her happened when her parents moved to 00:02:44.289 --> 00:02:46.189 the east coast of the united states to find work 00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:48.659 This was a pretty common thing back then, right? 00:02:48.960 --> 00:02:50.740 Parents would go ahead to get established before 00:02:50.740 --> 00:02:52.879 bringing the kids over. Exactly. It was quite 00:02:52.879 --> 00:02:55.340 common for that generation. But the consequence, 00:02:55.639 --> 00:02:58.020 the really difficult consequence, was that they 00:02:58.020 --> 00:03:00.219 left Grace and her siblings behind in Jamaica. 00:03:00.680 --> 00:03:02.780 And who were they left with? They were left in 00:03:02.780 --> 00:03:05.599 the care of her step -grandfather, a man they 00:03:05.599 --> 00:03:08.960 were forced to call Maspy, which stood for Master 00:03:08.960 --> 00:03:13.770 P. Master P. That sounds... ominous it was by 00:03:13.770 --> 00:03:16.229 all accounts this was a deeply traumatic experience 00:03:16.229 --> 00:03:18.349 for her i was reading about this in the notes 00:03:18.349 --> 00:03:21.930 and it's heavy stuff she describes him as a strict 00:03:21.930 --> 00:03:25.330 disciplinarian but that feels like a huge understatement 00:03:25.610 --> 00:03:27.729 It's a massive understatement. The sources describe 00:03:27.729 --> 00:03:30.889 serious, serious abuse. He would beat the children 00:03:30.889 --> 00:03:34.469 for, and this is a quote, any little act of dissent. 00:03:34.490 --> 00:03:36.849 Any little act? Any little thing. It wasn't just 00:03:36.849 --> 00:03:39.030 physical discipline either. It was this rigid, 00:03:39.189 --> 00:03:42.030 oppressive, religious environment. They had prayer 00:03:42.030 --> 00:03:44.569 meetings and Bible readings every single night. 00:03:44.610 --> 00:03:47.030 No exceptions. And Grace has a very specific, 00:03:47.210 --> 00:03:49.050 a very powerful way of describing this, doesn't 00:03:49.050 --> 00:03:50.909 she? She does. It's a quote that just sticks 00:03:50.909 --> 00:03:53.550 with you. She describes her childhood as being 00:03:53.979 --> 00:03:56.759 crushed underneath the Bible. Wow. Crushed underneath 00:03:56.759 --> 00:03:59.379 the Bible. It suggests this immense weight, you 00:03:59.379 --> 00:04:01.199 know, suffocation. It wasn't just that they had 00:04:01.199 --> 00:04:02.800 to go to church. It was that the religion itself 00:04:02.800 --> 00:04:05.520 was weaponized against them. Every action, every 00:04:05.520 --> 00:04:08.580 thought was scrutinized. It's just so hard to 00:04:08.580 --> 00:04:11.240 reconcile that image, that oppressed little girl 00:04:11.240 --> 00:04:14.240 with the fierce, untouchable warrior woman we 00:04:14.240 --> 00:04:16.459 all know today. Well, actually, if you connect 00:04:16.459 --> 00:04:20.019 the dots, it makes a strange kind of sense. Glace 00:04:20.019 --> 00:04:22.750 has analyzed this herself looking back. What 00:04:22.750 --> 00:04:25.430 did she say? She later stated that she is militant 00:04:25.430 --> 00:04:28.649 and disciplined precisely because of this upbringing. 00:04:28.850 --> 00:04:31.050 Oh, I see. So the framework remained, but she 00:04:31.050 --> 00:04:33.470 completely changed the purpose of it. Precisely. 00:04:33.550 --> 00:04:36.569 She said, and I love this quote, I am very militant 00:04:36.569 --> 00:04:38.800 and disciplined. even if that sometimes means 00:04:38.800 --> 00:04:41.620 being militantly naughty. Militantly naughty. 00:04:41.639 --> 00:04:44.759 That's perfect. It is. She essentially took that 00:04:44.759 --> 00:04:47.420 rigid training, how to stand, how to endure, 00:04:47.560 --> 00:04:50.160 how to hold herself under pressure, and she applied 00:04:50.160 --> 00:04:52.480 it to what she calls the arts of subversion. 00:04:52.899 --> 00:04:55.459 She used the strength that was forged in that 00:04:55.459 --> 00:04:58.920 fire to create a persona that no one could ever 00:04:58.920 --> 00:05:01.420 crush again. That is such a powerful reframing 00:05:01.420 --> 00:05:04.040 of trauma. So she's enduring this in Jamaica, 00:05:04.100 --> 00:05:06.759 but eventually... The family does reunite, right? 00:05:06.819 --> 00:05:09.420 Yes. At age 13, she moves to the U .S. to join 00:05:09.420 --> 00:05:11.500 her parents. They'd settled in Lincourt, New 00:05:11.500 --> 00:05:14.000 York, which is near Syracuse. A bit of a culture 00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:16.579 shock, I'd imagine. A huge culture shock. And 00:05:16.579 --> 00:05:19.459 by this point, her father had had this intense 00:05:19.459 --> 00:05:22.100 spiritual experience during a suicide attempt, 00:05:22.379 --> 00:05:24.600 which led him to establish his own ministry, 00:05:24.839 --> 00:05:27.519 the Apostolic Church of Jesus Christ. So the 00:05:27.519 --> 00:05:29.600 religious environment didn't get any less intense. 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:32.560 Not at all. But she didn't exactly fall in line 00:05:32.560 --> 00:05:35.300 with her dad's church, did she? No. Not for long. 00:05:35.819 --> 00:05:38.240 Sources say she enrolled at Onondaga Community 00:05:38.240 --> 00:05:41.360 College, where she majored in Spanish. And this 00:05:41.360 --> 00:05:43.079 is where the rebellion really starts to kick 00:05:43.079 --> 00:05:45.220 in. It really does. She starts wearing makeup, 00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:47.500 which was forbidden. She starts drinking alcohol. 00:05:47.939 --> 00:05:50.480 And this is a key detail. She starts visiting 00:05:50.480 --> 00:05:52.819 gay clubs with her brother. And this is where 00:05:52.819 --> 00:05:55.500 it gets kind of funny to me. She develops a whole 00:05:55.500 --> 00:05:58.319 alter ego to hide all of this from her parents. 00:05:58.480 --> 00:06:01.660 The Mendoza persona. Yes. She started working 00:06:01.660 --> 00:06:04.230 as a go -go dancer. But she couldn't let Bishop 00:06:04.230 --> 00:06:06.810 Robert W. Jones find out about that. Not a chance. 00:06:07.310 --> 00:06:10.550 So she used the surname Mendoza. Can you just 00:06:10.550 --> 00:06:12.810 imagine? No, Dad, that's not me dancing in a 00:06:12.810 --> 00:06:16.170 cage downtown. That's Grace Mendoza. It really 00:06:16.170 --> 00:06:18.050 speaks to that duality we mentioned earlier. 00:06:18.149 --> 00:06:21.290 She was absolutely living two lives. But her 00:06:21.290 --> 00:06:24.269 rebellion wasn't just about nightlife. She fully 00:06:24.269 --> 00:06:27.050 immersed herself in the 60s counterculture. How 00:06:27.050 --> 00:06:29.629 so? She moved to Philadelphia for summer stock 00:06:29.629 --> 00:06:32.689 theater. She lived in hippie communes. Total 00:06:32.689 --> 00:06:34.910 immersion. And the sources also mentioned she 00:06:34.910 --> 00:06:38.029 experimented with LSD. She did. And unlike many 00:06:38.029 --> 00:06:39.870 who look back on that kind of thing with regret, 00:06:40.069 --> 00:06:42.850 she praised it. She said it was, and I quote, 00:06:43.069 --> 00:06:45.810 very important for my emotional growth and that 00:06:45.810 --> 00:06:48.709 the mental exercise was good for me. So she was 00:06:48.709 --> 00:06:51.209 systematically dismantling the widget box her 00:06:51.209 --> 00:06:53.850 childhood had put her in, brick by brick. Every 00:06:53.850 --> 00:06:56.110 last one. So she's broken out of the box. She's 00:06:56.110 --> 00:06:59.180 Grace Mendoza, the go -go dancer. But how does 00:06:59.180 --> 00:07:01.500 she get from Syracuse to the cover of Vogue? 00:07:01.720 --> 00:07:04.220 Well, at 18, she moves back to New York City 00:07:04.220 --> 00:07:06.959 and signs with Wilhelmina Models. But the American 00:07:06.959 --> 00:07:09.800 market, they didn't quite know what to do with 00:07:09.800 --> 00:07:12.220 her yet. They weren't ready. Not at all. So in 00:07:12.220 --> 00:07:14.720 1970, she makes the move that changes everything. 00:07:14.839 --> 00:07:17.279 She goes to Paris. And Paris was ready. Paris 00:07:17.279 --> 00:07:19.839 was more than ready. They were completely entranced. 00:07:20.240 --> 00:07:23.079 The Parisian fashion scene embraced her dark 00:07:23.079 --> 00:07:26.639 skin, her androgynous features, that bold, almost 00:07:26.639 --> 00:07:29.160 intimidating look. And she started working with 00:07:29.160 --> 00:07:31.279 the biggest names? Immediately. We're talking 00:07:31.279 --> 00:07:34.920 Yves Saint Laurent, Kenzo. She was on the covers 00:07:34.920 --> 00:07:37.720 of Elle and Vogue Homes. She just exploded. And 00:07:37.720 --> 00:07:39.480 she wasn't just working. She was living the life. 00:07:39.600 --> 00:07:42.439 I love this detail about her roommates. It sounds 00:07:42.439 --> 00:07:44.300 like the setup for a sitcom, doesn't it? She 00:07:44.300 --> 00:07:46.779 lived with Jerry Hall. Future Mrs. Mick Jagger. 00:07:46.819 --> 00:07:50.350 And Jessica Lange. Future Oscar winner. That 00:07:50.350 --> 00:07:52.970 is an insane amount of star power in one apartment. 00:07:53.129 --> 00:07:55.009 Can you imagine? And they were at the absolute 00:07:55.009 --> 00:07:57.569 center of the scene. They were regulars at Les 00:07:57.569 --> 00:07:59.970 Sept, which was one of Paris' most popular gay 00:07:59.970 --> 00:08:02.430 clubs. She's hanging out with Giorgio Armani 00:08:02.430 --> 00:08:05.389 and Karl Lagerfeld. She was essentially royalty 00:08:05.389 --> 00:08:07.750 in both the underground and high fashion worlds 00:08:07.750 --> 00:08:11.430 simultaneously. But the visual evolution of Grace 00:08:11.430 --> 00:08:14.990 Jones, the icon Grace Jones, really hits a new 00:08:14.990 --> 00:08:17.730 level when she meets one specific person. Jean 00:08:17.730 --> 00:08:20.139 -Paul Goude. Jean -Paul Goude. This is a critical 00:08:20.139 --> 00:08:23.279 partnership. He was a French illustrator, a photographer, 00:08:23.540 --> 00:08:26.319 a graphic designer. They actually met in New 00:08:26.319 --> 00:08:29.019 York, but their collaboration is what defines 00:08:29.019 --> 00:08:32.159 her visual identity for the next decade. And 00:08:32.159 --> 00:08:34.139 they became partners romantically, too. They 00:08:34.139 --> 00:08:38.700 did. They had a son, Paulo, together. But professionally, 00:08:38.899 --> 00:08:42.679 what he did to her image was, well, it was literal 00:08:42.679 --> 00:08:44.460 manipulation. He called it the French correction. 00:08:44.740 --> 00:08:47.120 Okay. You have to unpack that for us. So Goody 00:08:47.120 --> 00:08:50.120 viewed Grace as his ultimate muse. He famously 00:08:50.120 --> 00:08:52.940 described her as beautiful and grotesque at the 00:08:52.940 --> 00:08:56.299 same time. Which is a thing to say about your 00:08:56.299 --> 00:08:59.220 partner. It certainly is. And his technique involved 00:08:59.220 --> 00:09:01.340 taking photographs of her, cutting them up with 00:09:01.340 --> 00:09:03.799 scissors or a knife, and physically rearranging 00:09:03.799 --> 00:09:06.879 them, elongating her limbs, exaggerating the 00:09:06.879 --> 00:09:09.620 angles, creating these impossible geometries 00:09:09.620 --> 00:09:11.759 with her body. So it's Photoshop before Photoshop. 00:09:12.100 --> 00:09:14.940 Exactly, but all analog. The most famous example, 00:09:15.059 --> 00:09:17.320 the one everyone knows, is the Island Life album 00:09:17.320 --> 00:09:19.899 cover. Oh yeah, the arabesque pose. That's the 00:09:19.899 --> 00:09:22.580 one! She's holding a microphone, standing on 00:09:22.580 --> 00:09:25.059 one leg, with her other leg pulled up impossibly 00:09:25.059 --> 00:09:27.419 behind her head. It looks incredible, but when 00:09:27.419 --> 00:09:28.759 you actually look at it... Don't you realize 00:09:28.759 --> 00:09:31.080 you can't do that? It's anatomically impossible. 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:33.600 Her ribcage is twisted one way, her hips are 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:36.700 facing another. Goad constructed that image from 00:09:36.700 --> 00:09:40.080 multiple photos to create what he called a credible 00:09:40.080 --> 00:09:43.110 illusion. He wasn't interested in reality. Not 00:09:43.110 --> 00:09:46.110 at all. He was interested in creating a hyperreality. 00:09:46.700 --> 00:09:49.320 With grace as his medium. Now we have to look 00:09:49.320 --> 00:09:51.600 at the complexity of this relationship. Because 00:09:51.600 --> 00:09:54.240 Goad wasn't just taking pretty pictures. He was 00:09:54.240 --> 00:09:57.179 exploring some really intense themes. That's 00:09:57.179 --> 00:09:58.759 right. And this is where it gets complicated. 00:09:59.240 --> 00:10:01.980 Goad had a deep fascination with what he termed 00:10:01.980 --> 00:10:06.000 exoticism. And in 1978, he created an artwork 00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:09.279 titled Nigger Arabesque, which is the piece that 00:10:09.279 --> 00:10:11.700 became that island life image. The title itself 00:10:11.700 --> 00:10:14.600 is. It's incredibly jarring. It is. And it sparked 00:10:14.600 --> 00:10:17.230 a lot of discussion then. now about the nature 00:10:17.230 --> 00:10:19.490 of their collaboration. Critics have pointed 00:10:19.490 --> 00:10:22.070 out that while these images made Grace an undisputed 00:10:22.070 --> 00:10:24.230 icon, there was a dynamic where Goad treated 00:10:24.230 --> 00:10:26.649 her as an artistic vehicle. Like she was clay 00:10:26.649 --> 00:10:29.480 to be molded. Exactly. That he was creating his 00:10:29.480 --> 00:10:32.220 own, as some have put it, white man's rendition 00:10:32.220 --> 00:10:34.659 of the African feminine. It's such a complicated 00:10:34.659 --> 00:10:37.240 legacy. Because on one hand, she looks so powerful 00:10:37.240 --> 00:10:39.639 in those images. Terrifying and totally in control. 00:10:39.759 --> 00:10:41.559 Absolutely. But on the other hand, she's being 00:10:41.559 --> 00:10:43.820 literally cut up and rearranged by an artist 00:10:43.820 --> 00:10:48.470 to fit a specific and somewhat problematic. It's 00:10:48.470 --> 00:10:51.149 the central tension of her most iconic era. And 00:10:51.149 --> 00:10:53.669 the sources note that this intensity, this dynamic, 00:10:53.830 --> 00:10:56.049 eventually destroyed their personal romance. 00:10:56.370 --> 00:10:58.970 But the work they created together, it defined 00:10:58.970 --> 00:11:02.230 the visual landscape of the 1980s. You cannot 00:11:02.230 --> 00:11:05.070 separate Grace Jones, the icon, from Jean -Paul 00:11:05.070 --> 00:11:07.350 Goude's French correction. So she has the look. 00:11:07.350 --> 00:11:09.490 She has the fame. But we haven't even really 00:11:09.490 --> 00:11:11.620 talked about the music yet. And this is where 00:11:11.620 --> 00:11:13.700 she really surprises people, I think. She didn't 00:11:13.700 --> 00:11:16.240 just find one sound and stick with it. No, she 00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:18.440 evolved constantly. Her music career really has 00:11:18.440 --> 00:11:20.879 three very distinct phases, and it starts in 00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:24.580 1977. She signs to Island Records and dives headfirst 00:11:24.580 --> 00:11:27.580 into the disco craze. The disco queen era. Right. 00:11:27.960 --> 00:11:31.340 Her first three albums, Portfolio, Fame, and 00:11:31.340 --> 00:11:35.139 Muse, are pure, unadulterated disco. And the 00:11:35.139 --> 00:11:37.220 big hit here, the one that broke her as a singer, 00:11:37.340 --> 00:11:40.679 is her reinterpretation of Edith Piaf's La Vie 00:11:40.679 --> 00:11:43.480 en Rose. Which is such a bold move, taking this 00:11:43.480 --> 00:11:45.659 beloved French classic and turning it into a 00:11:45.659 --> 00:11:47.820 seven -minute disco anthem. And it absolutely 00:11:47.820 --> 00:11:50.419 worked. She became the queen of the gay discos. 00:11:50.419 --> 00:11:53.259 Her live shows were flamboyant, highly sexualized, 00:11:53.279 --> 00:11:57.379 legendary. But by 1979... They hit a wall. Disco's 00:11:57.379 --> 00:12:00.360 dead. The Disco Sucks movement was in full swing. 00:12:00.580 --> 00:12:03.539 Anti -disco sentiment was rising fast. If she 00:12:03.539 --> 00:12:05.539 had stayed in that lane, she would have become 00:12:05.539 --> 00:12:08.059 a relic overnight. She needed to pivot. And this 00:12:08.059 --> 00:12:10.580 pivot is, in my opinion, one of the greatest, 00:12:10.620 --> 00:12:12.940 most successful reinventions in pop music history. 00:12:13.120 --> 00:12:14.399 This is where we get to the Compass Point trilogy. 00:12:14.679 --> 00:12:17.460 Yes. She goes to Nassau in the Bahamas to the 00:12:17.460 --> 00:12:20.419 legendary Compass Point Studios. And Chris Blackwell, 00:12:20.539 --> 00:12:22.779 the head of Island Records, puts together a house 00:12:22.779 --> 00:12:25.539 band for her, the Compass Point All -Stars. And 00:12:25.539 --> 00:12:27.039 this isn't just any band. We're talking about 00:12:27.039 --> 00:12:29.700 Sly and Robbie. We are talking about Slide on 00:12:29.700 --> 00:12:31.700 Bar on drums and Robbie Shakespeare on bass, 00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:35.240 the greatest reggae rhythm section of all time, 00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:38.139 period. Plus the French keyboardist Wally Badourou. 00:12:38.279 --> 00:12:40.450 So what was the sound they created? What they 00:12:40.450 --> 00:12:43.789 did was fuse new wave, post -punk, and reggae 00:12:43.789 --> 00:12:47.429 into this slinky, dangerous, dub -heavy sound. 00:12:47.750 --> 00:12:51.029 It's cold and robotic, but also incredibly funky. 00:12:51.169 --> 00:12:53.590 That's such a cool sound. It's spacious. It is, 00:12:53.669 --> 00:12:55.789 and it completely changed how she sang. In the 00:12:55.789 --> 00:12:58.250 disco era, she was belting, you know, using her 00:12:58.250 --> 00:13:00.450 full soprano range. But with this new sound, 00:13:00.529 --> 00:13:04.490 she adopted this monotone speaksing style. Like 00:13:04.490 --> 00:13:06.769 on Private Life. Exactly. She sounds detached, 00:13:07.009 --> 00:13:08.610 almost bored, but at the same time incredibly 00:13:08.610 --> 00:13:11.059 commanding. It's menacing. And Private Life is 00:13:11.059 --> 00:13:13.759 a cover, right, of The Pretenders? It is. The 00:13:13.759 --> 00:13:16.580 first album of this trilogy, a 1980s warm leatherette, 00:13:16.679 --> 00:13:19.539 is mostly covers. The normal, Roxy music, Tom 00:13:19.539 --> 00:13:22.500 Petty's Breakdown. But she completely deconstructs 00:13:22.500 --> 00:13:24.559 them and makes them her own. And then comes the 00:13:24.559 --> 00:13:28.200 masterpiece. Yeah. 1981, Night Clubbing. This 00:13:28.200 --> 00:13:30.500 is widely considered her best studio album. Just 00:13:30.500 --> 00:13:32.759 a perfect record from start to finish. It has 00:13:32.759 --> 00:13:36.139 pull up to the bumper. Which has this R &B, almost 00:13:36.139 --> 00:13:38.480 funk sound. It was actually rejected for the 00:13:38.480 --> 00:13:40.399 previous album for being too black sounding, 00:13:40.519 --> 00:13:42.419 believe it or not. That's what the sources say. 00:13:42.679 --> 00:13:45.940 And it became one of her biggest hits. The album 00:13:45.940 --> 00:13:48.620 also has, I've seen that face before, Libertango. 00:13:49.039 --> 00:13:51.759 Oh, that song is the ultimate mood. It sounds 00:13:51.759 --> 00:13:55.039 like a spy movie set in a Parisian cafe, all 00:13:55.039 --> 00:13:57.600 in audio form. It really does. And visually, 00:13:57.659 --> 00:14:00.080 the cover of Night Clubbing, a painting by Goud, 00:14:00.179 --> 00:14:03.299 is just as important. It's her in an Armani suit, 00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:05.759 cigarette dangling from her mouth, that iconic 00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:08.740 flat top hair. It's gender bending. It's tough. 00:14:08.919 --> 00:14:11.379 It's just perfect. So she's conquered music again. 00:14:11.700 --> 00:14:14.700 She's conquered fashion. But Grace being Grace, 00:14:14.899 --> 00:14:17.679 she decides to take this whole new persona on 00:14:17.679 --> 00:14:20.899 the road. And not just a concert, a full on performance 00:14:20.899 --> 00:14:24.039 piece. A one man show. Yes. This tour in 1981 00:14:24.039 --> 00:14:26.840 was pure performance art. She wasn't just standing 00:14:26.840 --> 00:14:29.279 at a microphone singing songs. She dressed as 00:14:29.279 --> 00:14:30.980 a gorilla. She had these incredibly elaborate 00:14:30.980 --> 00:14:34.200 costumes. At one point, she had multiple Grace 00:14:34.200 --> 00:14:36.629 Jones lookalikes on stage with her. The video 00:14:36.629 --> 00:14:39.909 version was even nominated for a Grammy. It cemented 00:14:39.909 --> 00:14:42.549 the idea that Grace Jones wasn't a singer you 00:14:42.549 --> 00:14:44.909 listen to. She was an experience you survived. 00:14:45.509 --> 00:14:47.549 Survived is the right word because around this 00:14:47.549 --> 00:14:50.889 time, Hollywood starts calling and she is terrifying 00:14:50.889 --> 00:14:53.889 on screen. Hollywood saw this intimidating persona 00:14:53.889 --> 00:14:56.769 and said, yes, we can use that. First up, Conan 00:14:56.769 --> 00:15:00.730 the Destroyer in 1984. She plays Zula, the Amazonian 00:15:00.730 --> 00:15:03.450 warrior. alongside Arnold Schwarzenegger. And 00:15:03.450 --> 00:15:05.450 honestly, she looked like she could take him 00:15:05.450 --> 00:15:07.610 in a fight. Her physicality was just off the 00:15:07.610 --> 00:15:09.629 charts. It was perfect for the role. And then 00:15:09.629 --> 00:15:12.409 the big one, the role that made her a global 00:15:12.409 --> 00:15:15.690 household name, James Bond. A view to a kill 00:15:15.690 --> 00:15:19.470 in 1985, she plays Mayday. She is the quintessential 00:15:19.470 --> 00:15:21.690 henchwoman. She's lifting men clean over her 00:15:21.690 --> 00:15:23.610 head. She's base jumping off the Eiffel Tower. 00:15:23.809 --> 00:15:26.350 She was unforgettable. And then in 1986, she 00:15:26.350 --> 00:15:28.929 plays a vampire queen in the movie Vamp. Which 00:15:28.929 --> 00:15:31.639 makes total sense. If anyone is an immortal vampire 00:15:31.639 --> 00:15:34.100 queen, it's Grace Jones. Keith Haring actually 00:15:34.100 --> 00:15:36.500 painted her body for that role, which again is 00:15:36.500 --> 00:15:38.799 this incredible connection between high art and 00:15:38.799 --> 00:15:40.539 pop cinema that just follows her everywhere. 00:15:40.899 --> 00:15:42.960 So while she's doing the movie star thing, she 00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:45.919 also releases another massive album, Slave to 00:15:45.919 --> 00:15:49.059 the Rhythm. This is 1985, and it's a concept 00:15:49.059 --> 00:15:51.539 album produced by the legendary Trevor Horn. 00:15:51.879 --> 00:15:54.980 Now here's a great bit of trivia. That project 00:15:54.980 --> 00:15:57.419 was originally intended for Frankie Goes to Hollywood. 00:15:57.879 --> 00:16:00.700 No way. Yeah. As the follow up to their huge 00:16:00.700 --> 00:16:04.179 hit Relax. I cannot imagine anyone else singing 00:16:04.179 --> 00:16:06.740 that title track. Her delivery is so iconic. 00:16:06.940 --> 00:16:09.700 It ended up with Grace and it became her signature 00:16:09.700 --> 00:16:12.639 song. The album itself is fascinating because 00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:15.320 it's basically just various interpretations of 00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:17.820 that one song. Right. Interspersed with interview 00:16:17.820 --> 00:16:19.840 clips where she's talking to the journalist Paul 00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:21.840 Morley about her life. It's almost a documentary 00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:23.940 set to music. And it was a huge hit for her. 00:16:24.840 --> 00:16:27.460 But we can't talk about her media presence in 00:16:27.460 --> 00:16:29.340 the 80s without mentioning the Russell Hardy 00:16:29.340 --> 00:16:32.080 incident. Oh, the slap. The slap heard around 00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:34.600 the world. It was a British chat show. Russell 00:16:34.600 --> 00:16:37.039 Hardy was the host. And he made the mistake of 00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:39.580 turning his back on Grace to interview the other 00:16:39.580 --> 00:16:43.179 guests on the couch. And she, she was not having 00:16:43.179 --> 00:16:46.120 it. She felt ignored. She felt disrespected. 00:16:46.299 --> 00:16:49.539 And in Grace Jones's world, you do not ignore 00:16:49.539 --> 00:16:52.580 Grace Jones. She started repeatedly slapping 00:16:52.580 --> 00:16:55.440 him on the arm. She did. It became this legendary, 00:16:55.500 --> 00:16:58.000 shocking TV moment, and it really reinforced 00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:01.000 that scary, unpredictable reputation she had. 00:17:01.139 --> 00:17:05.000 So she completely owns the 80s. Fashion, music, 00:17:05.319 --> 00:17:08.500 film. But then the 90s come around and she sort 00:17:08.500 --> 00:17:11.740 of vanishes. She calls them her wilderness years. 00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:14.920 She actually vowed at one point never to do an 00:17:14.920 --> 00:17:16.960 album again. Why? She was on top of the world. 00:17:17.059 --> 00:17:19.369 What happened? She just hated the production 00:17:19.369 --> 00:17:21.990 trends of the 90s. She felt that producers were, 00:17:22.170 --> 00:17:25.170 in her words, just mincing her vocals. Mincing 00:17:25.170 --> 00:17:27.410 them. Yeah, chopping them up, focusing on sampling. 00:17:27.589 --> 00:17:31.069 She wanted to sing, to perform, not be a tiny 00:17:31.069 --> 00:17:33.690 soundbite in some techno track. She had a couple 00:17:33.690 --> 00:17:35.849 of projects, like an album called Black Marilyn 00:17:35.849 --> 00:17:37.789 and a collaboration with Tricky called Force 00:17:37.789 --> 00:17:40.089 of Nature, but they all got shelved or canceled. 00:17:40.430 --> 00:17:42.309 That must have been incredibly frustrating, to 00:17:42.309 --> 00:17:44.089 feel like the industry you helped shape had moved 00:17:44.089 --> 00:17:46.769 to a place where your actual talent wasn't valued 00:17:46.769 --> 00:17:49.619 anymore. It seems so, but she didn't stay gone 00:17:49.619 --> 00:17:52.779 forever. In 2008, after nearly 20 years away 00:17:52.779 --> 00:17:55.519 from music, she returned. With the album Hurricane. 00:17:55.839 --> 00:17:58.380 Yes, the comeback. And this wasn't just a, you 00:17:58.380 --> 00:18:00.599 know, here's some remixes of my old hits kind 00:18:00.599 --> 00:18:03.099 of album. This was deeply, deeply personal. What 00:18:03.099 --> 00:18:05.059 was the catalyst for it? She met the producer 00:18:05.059 --> 00:18:07.700 Ivor Guest through the famous milliner Philip 00:18:07.700 --> 00:18:10.680 Treacy. And the content of Hurricane brings us 00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:12.700 right back to the very beginning of our story 00:18:12.700 --> 00:18:15.059 today. How so? Well, there's a song on it called 00:18:15.059 --> 00:18:18.119 William's Blood, and Williams was her mother's 00:18:18.119 --> 00:18:20.200 maiden name. The song is all about her mother 00:18:20.200 --> 00:18:22.420 and the conflict she felt with her father's religion. 00:18:22.980 --> 00:18:26.099 It's Grace, at 60 years old, finally reckoning 00:18:26.099 --> 00:18:29.299 with her heritage. Wow. There's also Corporate 00:18:29.299 --> 00:18:31.880 Cannibal, which is this terrifying industrial 00:18:31.880 --> 00:18:34.299 critique of capitalism. I love Corporate Cannibal. 00:18:34.299 --> 00:18:37.000 The video is absolute nightmare fuel. She looks 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:40.079 like this morphing digital demon. It proved she 00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:42.740 hadn't lost an ounce of her edge. And she reunited 00:18:42.740 --> 00:18:45.180 with Sly Robbie for the album and Brian Eno. 00:18:45.319 --> 00:18:47.900 It was a critically acclaimed triumphant return. 00:18:48.440 --> 00:18:51.380 And she just kept proving that age is, you know, 00:18:51.400 --> 00:18:53.299 just a number. We have to talk about the Queen's 00:18:53.299 --> 00:18:56.079 Diamond Jubilee in 2012. Oh, yes. The Jubilee 00:18:56.079 --> 00:18:58.799 concert. Grace is 64 years old at this point. 00:18:58.819 --> 00:19:02.160 She comes out on this massive stage to sing Slave 00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:04.519 to the Rhythm. And she hula hoops. The entire 00:19:04.519 --> 00:19:07.740 time. For the entire song. Without ever dropping 00:19:07.740 --> 00:19:09.960 it. And singing live without missing a single 00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:12.119 breath. It was just this astonishing display 00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:15.819 of core strength, breath control, and pure showmanship. 00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:19.019 that people half her age couldn't dream of pulling 00:19:19.019 --> 00:19:20.799 off. It's just showing off at that point. Yeah. 00:19:20.839 --> 00:19:22.559 But I mean, she earned it. She certainly did. 00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:24.599 And when you look at the modern pop landscape, 00:19:24.819 --> 00:19:28.160 you see Grace's DNA everywhere. Lady Gaga, Rihanna, 00:19:28.339 --> 00:19:31.180 Lorde, Annie Lennox. They all cite her as a primary 00:19:31.180 --> 00:19:33.599 inspiration. She really wrote the blueprint for 00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:36.460 the art pop weirdo superstar, didn't she? Absolutely. 00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:38.359 And she's still working, still collaborating. 00:19:38.619 --> 00:19:41.619 She was on a Gorillaz track in 2017. She featured 00:19:41.619 --> 00:19:45.119 on Beyonce's Renaissance album in 2022. She's 00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:47.849 not a museum piece. She's still a creative force. 00:19:48.089 --> 00:19:50.450 Before we wrap up, I do want to clear up some 00:19:50.450 --> 00:19:53.009 of the personal life details because the rumors 00:19:53.009 --> 00:19:55.509 about her are almost as wild as her outfits. 00:19:55.750 --> 00:19:58.250 Right. There are always these rumors about multiple 00:19:58.250 --> 00:20:01.190 marriages. In her memoir, she clarifies that 00:20:01.190 --> 00:20:03.690 she has only been married once to a man named 00:20:03.690 --> 00:20:07.170 Attila Altande. So the rumors about being married 00:20:07.170 --> 00:20:10.190 to her former bodyguard, Chris Stanley. She disputes 00:20:10.190 --> 00:20:12.960 those entirely. And of course, she had the very 00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:15.480 high profile relationships with the actor Dolph 00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:18.019 Lundgren. She got him his role in the Bond movie. 00:20:18.140 --> 00:20:20.759 She did. And with Jean -Paul Goude, the father 00:20:20.759 --> 00:20:22.880 of her son. Good to set the record straight on 00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:26.940 that. So we've gone from this strict Pentecostal 00:20:26.940 --> 00:20:29.079 households in Jamaica where she was literally 00:20:29.079 --> 00:20:31.400 beaten for dissent. To the runways of Paris, 00:20:31.559 --> 00:20:34.529 the discos of New York. and the Hollywood silver 00:20:34.529 --> 00:20:37.170 screen. It's an incredible arc. And it all comes 00:20:37.170 --> 00:20:39.529 back to that idea of discipline. It does. She 00:20:39.529 --> 00:20:42.130 took the trauma of her childhood, that militant 00:20:42.130 --> 00:20:45.690 upbringing, and she flipped it. She became militantly 00:20:45.690 --> 00:20:48.849 fabulous, militantly creative, militantly herself. 00:20:49.190 --> 00:20:51.170 I keep thinking about that quote from Goode about 00:20:51.170 --> 00:20:53.329 her being intimidating. It was a constructed 00:20:53.329 --> 00:20:55.789 image for sure, but the discipline underneath 00:20:55.789 --> 00:20:58.849 it, the steel in her spine, that was real. She 00:20:58.849 --> 00:21:00.789 wasn't just wearing a costume. She was living 00:21:00.789 --> 00:21:04.359 a performance 24 -7. So what does this all mean 00:21:04.359 --> 00:21:07.160 for us? Why does Grace Jones still matter so 00:21:07.160 --> 00:21:10.019 much today? I think she represents the ultimate 00:21:10.019 --> 00:21:12.920 refusal to compromise. In a world where social 00:21:12.920 --> 00:21:16.180 media encourages us all to curate these palatable, 00:21:16.339 --> 00:21:20.059 friendly, easy to digest personas, Grace Jones 00:21:20.059 --> 00:21:22.920 has always been jagged. She's been scary. She's 00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:25.059 been weird. She's been impossible to define. 00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:27.420 She reminds you that you don't have to fit neatly 00:21:27.420 --> 00:21:29.920 in a box. In fact, you can cut the box up and 00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:31.990 wear it as a hat. That is the perfect way to 00:21:31.990 --> 00:21:33.730 put it. And here's a final thought to leave you 00:21:33.730 --> 00:21:36.650 with. Grace said in her memoir, I am very militant 00:21:36.650 --> 00:21:39.029 and disciplined, even if that sometimes means 00:21:39.029 --> 00:21:41.630 being militantly naughty. A fantastic quote to 00:21:41.630 --> 00:21:44.529 live by. So ask yourself this. In our world of 00:21:44.529 --> 00:21:46.609 carefully managed brands and PR friendly stars, 00:21:46.750 --> 00:21:49.769 is Grace Jones the last true example of a life 00:21:49.769 --> 00:21:52.990 lived as uncompromised performance art? Is there 00:21:52.990 --> 00:21:55.549 anyone else who could slap a TV host, hula hoop 00:21:55.549 --> 00:21:57.970 for the queen and scare Arnold Schwarzenegger, 00:21:58.049 --> 00:22:00.539 all while looking impeccable? I don't think so. 00:22:00.579 --> 00:22:03.160 She is truly one of one. Thanks for joining us 00:22:03.160 --> 00:22:05.680 on this deep dive into the wild wonderful world 00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:07.920 of Grace Jones. We'll see you next time.