WEBVTT

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Okay, I want to start today with a little mental

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exercise. I want you to close your eyes, assuming

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you aren't driving, of course, and just picture

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a saint, specifically Saint Ignatius of Loyola.

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What's the image that pops into your head? Well,

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I imagine for most people it's the standard,

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you know, the stained glass window treatment.

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Right. You see a figure in these flowing robes.

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Maybe he's holding a book of rules and he's gazing

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serenely up at a beam of heavenly light. Hands

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folded in prayer. A halo, obviously. A halo is

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a must, yes. Exactly. That's the brand. That

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is the statue you see in the garden. Now, I want

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you to take that mental image and absolutely

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smash it with a cannonball. Tuckling. A very...

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Specific instruction. Because the sources we

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have in front of us for this deep dive, they

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tell a completely, and I mean completely different

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story. Right. If you met this guy in his 20s,

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you wouldn't be asking for his blessing. Yeah.

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You would probably be crossing the street to

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avoid getting stabbed. That is a very fair assessment.

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The man we are analyzing today, Inigo Lopez de

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Onyazi Loyola, did not start out as a holy figure.

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Not even close. Not even a little bit. In fact,

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our sources, we have a... A pretty wide range

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here from his own autobiography to military records

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and even a rather gruesome autopsy report. They

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paint a picture of a man who was, quite frankly,

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a disaster. A disaster. I love that. One of the

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sources actually calls him a rough, punkish swordsman.

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That's the one. I am obsessed with that description.

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Rough, punkish swordsman. So our mission today

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is to figure out how that guy. A vain, violent,

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tight -boot -wearing soldier transformed into

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this master of human psychology who founded one

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of the most intellectually rigorous organizations

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in history. It's an incredible transformation.

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And it all hinges on a single, split -second

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event, what you might call the cannonball effect.

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Right. The moment physics met ego. A very, very

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loud meeting. Very loud indeed. But before we

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get to the cannonball, we have to understand

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the target. We need to really understand who

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Inigo was before the halo. We have to go back.

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We have to go back to the Basque Country. Year

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is 1491. And we have to understand the context

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of his family, the Oñas Loyola clan. He was the

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youngest of 13 children born in the family castle

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at Loyola. 13 kids. 13! But don't let that word

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castle trick you into thinking this was some

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refined Disney -style nobility. This was a rough

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part of the world. It wasn't a fairy tale. Far

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from it. This was the era of what they called

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the War of the Bands. Which, despite the name,

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was not a musical competition between rival drummers.

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No, not at all. This was centuries of just brutal,

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feudal, tribal violence in the Basque region.

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To give you an idea of the, let's say, the temperature

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of the room, Inigo's own grandfather was actually

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expelled from the region by King Henry IV. the

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king ordered their manor house their castle to

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be demolished demolished you mean like we are

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tearing your house down because you people are

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so completely uncontrollable exactly that specifically

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for their depredations that is the word in the

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historical records they were i mean they were

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essentially terrorizing the countryside Wow.

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So violence is the family business. It really

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is. So Nego is born into this culture where honor

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is solved with steel. Reputation is absolutely

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everything. And the family business is, you know,

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low level warfare and feuding. And he didn't

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exactly break the mold, did he? Not at all. He

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fit right in. His mother died shortly after he

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was born. So he was actually nursed by the local

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blacksmith's wife. So he grows up rough. He grows

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up very rough. The sources all agree he was driven

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by a desire for fame. Not holiness, not service,

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fame. He wanted to be a hero in the classical

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epic sense. And he was a reader, which is interesting,

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but not of the Bible. No, no. He was completely

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obsessed with chivalric romances. You have to

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think of the bestsellers of the day, a book like

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Amidistagala. What's that about? It's all tales

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of knights, damsels in distress, dragons, magic,

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and lots and lots of duels. He patterned his

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entire personality, his whole way of being in

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the world, around this fiction. He wanted to

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be the main character of his own story. And he

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dressed the part. This is one of my favorite

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details in the entire stack of research we have.

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It's very telling. Listen to this description

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of him as a teenager, serving in the court of

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the treasurer of Castile. It says he strutted

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about with his cape flying open to reveal his

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tight fitting hose and boots, a sword and dagger

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at his waist. He's peacocking. It's pure performance.

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Total peacocking. He wants everyone to see his

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fancy boots and his, you know, well -turned calves.

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It's classic overcompensation, really. He wasn't

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a particularly tall man, but he was incredibly

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vain. The sources are very clear on this. He

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was obsessed with his appearance, specifically

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his legs and his long flowing hair. And he was

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quote, sensitive to insult. Which is a very dangerous

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trait when you're carrying a sword and a dagger

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at all times. Yeah, that's a bad combination.

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And we have to talk about the criminal record

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because usually when you read a saint's biography,

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they kind of skip the part about the arrest warrant.

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Yes, the hagiographies, the official saint's

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stories, they tend to gloss over this little

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episode. The sources are a bit vague on the specifics,

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probably to protect his reputation later on.

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But we know that during carnival time in 1515,

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Inigo and his brother... who was a priest, mind

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you. His brother was a priest. A priest. They

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were involved in some nocturnal misdemeanors.

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Nocturnal misdemeanors sounds like they were,

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I don't know, tipping cows or something. But

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it was way worse than that, wasn't it? Oh, it

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was violent. It was described as treacherous.

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It was significant enough that he was prosecuted

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for it. And here is where we see his character

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at the time really shine through. How does he

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get out of it? He gets out of it by claiming

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clerical immunity. Because he had been tonsured

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as a boy, you know, the haircut that was a minor

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religious rite, it didn't really make him a priest.

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But technically, legally, it put him under church

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law, not civil law. So he played the don't you

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know who I am card. He used a legal loophole

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to escape jail. Precisely. So let's just recap

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the profile we're building here. We have a violent,

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womanizing, fashion -obsessed aristocrat who

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uses his privilege and legal loopholes to avoid

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the consequences of his actions. He's a brat.

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A dangerous, noble brat. That's a perfect summary.

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But he must have been competent, right? He wasn't

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just a layabout, a trust fund kid. Oh no, he

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was very competent. He was known as a servant

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of the court. He had charisma. He joined the

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military at 17 and served under the Duke of Najera.

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He was apparently a very good diplomat and a

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brave soldier. But the motivation was all wrong.

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The motivation was entirely internal. It was

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all about his ego. He wanted the glory. He wanted

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people to write songs about his deeds. Which

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brings us to the moment that changed absolutely

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everything. The inciting incident. May 20, 1521.

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The Battle of Pamplona. This is the turning point.

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The context here is a French Navarrese expedition

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force storming the fortress of Pamplona. Inigo

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is one of the defenders. And the odds are terrible.

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The odds are terrible. The Spanish force is vastly

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outnumbered. Most of the other officers, the

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sensible ones, want to surrender. But Inigo,

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thinking he's the hero in one of his romance

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novels, says, no surrender. Exactly. He convinces

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the commander to hold the fortress. He rallies

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the troops with this big heroic speech. He's

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right in the thick of the defense on the ramparts.

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And then the cannon fires. Now, a lot of people

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think he took a direct hit from the cannonball,

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but that's not quite right, is it? It was a ricochet.

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It was a ricochet off the wall, which in some

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ways is worse. The physics of a heavy iron ball

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spinning at that speed are just unforgiving.

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It smashed through his legs. Lural. Both legs.

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Both. It fractured his right leg, shattered it.

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Really, and badly injured the left one as well.

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And just like that, the dancing, the strutting,

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the fencing, the fancy boots, it's over. It's

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all over. But the injury is really just the prologue

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to the horror show that is 16th Century Medicine.

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Right. We have to constantly remind ourselves,

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and you, the listener. There is no anesthesia.

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Zero. There are no antibiotics, no germ theory.

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The French soldiers, actually out of respect

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for his bravery, didn't take him prisoner. They

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carried him back to his family home at Loyola.

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A small mercy, I guess. A small mercy, but the

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bones had been set poorly in the field. They

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weren't knitting together correctly. They were

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a mess. And this is where the vanity we talked

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about earlier, his obsession with his appearance,

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becomes genuinely pathological. The source says

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a piece of bone was protruding below the knee.

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It was ruining the line of the leg. Think about

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that. He's lying there in agony, but his primary

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concern is aesthetic. He looked at his mangled

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leg and realized he couldn't wear his fashionable

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tight -fitting boots with that bone sticking

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out. It was a fashion disaster for him. It was

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an aesthetic catastrophe. So what did he do?

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I mean, what could he do? He told the doctors

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to break the leg again. What? She ordered them

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to re -break the leg and reset it. And when that

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was done, and a piece of bone was still protruding,

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he ordered them to saw it off. He voluntarily

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had a guy saw off a piece of his own leg bone

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while he was awake, just so his boots would fit

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better. He did. The sources say he clenched his

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fist so hard during the procedure that he didn't

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cry out, but the physical toll was just immense.

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He nearly died from the shock and the subsequent

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infection. They gave him the last rites. They

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did. Everyone thought he was going to die, but

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he somehow pulled through. It's a level of commitment

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to fashion that I... I almost have to respect

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it. It's horrifying, but it's impressive. It's

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something, that's for sure. But it didn't even

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work, did it? Not fully. He survived, which in

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itself is a miracle, given the sanitation at

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the time. But the leg never healed properly.

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One leg ended up permanently shorter than the

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other. So he had a limp. A permanent, pronounced

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limp for the rest of his life. His military career

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was over. His days as a dashing courtier were

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over. So the punkish swordsman is effectively

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dead. He's now an invalid. He's stuck in bed

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at the family castle for months on end. And this

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leads to what I think is the most relatable part

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of this entire story. The boredom. It is the

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boredom that changed the world. It really is.

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He is convalescing. He is in pain. He is desperate

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for any kind of distraction from his new reality.

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So he asks for his books, right? He wants his

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romance novels. He wants Amidista Gala. He wants

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to disassociate from his pain and just read about

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knights and ladies. He does, but the castle didn't

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have any. The Loyola Family Library was apparently

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very, very sparse. What did they have? They only

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had two books in the entire house. The Life of

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Christ by a writer named Ludolf of Saxony and

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a collection of the lives of the saints, the

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Floss Sanctorum. So it's like wanting to binge

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watch a big action series on Netflix and finding

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out the only thing available is a documentary

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on medieval monks. That's a perfect analogy.

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He must have been so annoyed. Furious, I'd imagine.

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But out of sheer soul crushing desperation and

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boredom, he started reading. And because he had

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such a vivid imagination, the same imagination

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he used to use for his nightly fantasies, he

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started daydreaming about what he was reading.

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And this is the moment. This is where the deep

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dive really pays off. Because he starts to notice

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something happening in his own brain that becomes

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the foundation of his entire philosophy. This

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is the discovery of what he would later call

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discernment. It's a psychological breakthrough.

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Here's the data point he observes. Inigo noticed

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he had two distinct types of data. dreams. Let's

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call them Type A and Type B. Okay. Break them

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down for us. Type A was the worldly dream. He

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would lie there and dream about his old life,

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serving the king, winning duels, impressing this

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one particular royal lady he was obsessed with.

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Fun stuff. The ego stuff. Exactly. The highlights

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reel. And the source, his own autobiography,

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says that while he was thinking about these things,

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he felt very excited. He was delighted. It was

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a high dopamine state. Sure. But, and this is

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the crucial observation, When the daydream ended,

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when he came back to reality in his sickbed,

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he felt dry, desolate, dissatisfied, empty. Okay,

00:12:08.529 --> 00:12:12.350
so a high peak followed by a low valley. A crash.

00:12:12.570 --> 00:12:15.460
A real crash. Then there was type B. He would

00:12:15.460 --> 00:12:18.480
read about St. Francis of Assisi or St. Dominic,

00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:20.600
and he would daydream about imitating them. He'd

00:12:20.600 --> 00:12:22.919
think, what if I walked to Jerusalem barefoot?

00:12:23.240 --> 00:12:26.100
Or what if I ate only herbs and lived in a cave?

00:12:26.399 --> 00:12:28.600
Which on the surface sounds miserable compared

00:12:28.600 --> 00:12:30.919
to court life and duels. It does. It sounds hard

00:12:30.919 --> 00:12:33.179
and unpleasant. But he noticed something strange

00:12:33.179 --> 00:12:35.559
about the after effect. While the thought itself

00:12:35.559 --> 00:12:37.700
might be daunting, when he stopped thinking about

00:12:37.700 --> 00:12:41.220
it, he didn't feel empty. He felt peaceful. A

00:12:41.220 --> 00:12:44.509
good feeling. A lasting good feeling. He remained

00:12:44.509 --> 00:12:47.850
contented, joyful. There was no crash. So the

00:12:47.850 --> 00:12:50.649
world dream left him empty, and the holy dream

00:12:50.649 --> 00:12:53.250
left him full. It's like the difference between

00:12:53.250 --> 00:12:56.049
eating junk food and a healthy meal. That's a

00:12:56.049 --> 00:12:58.570
great way to put it. He began to realize that

00:12:58.570 --> 00:13:01.250
the immediate emotion isn't the truth. The lingering

00:13:01.250 --> 00:13:04.870
state, the aftertaste, is the truth. The aftertaste

00:13:04.870 --> 00:13:07.950
of an idea. Yes. He called the feeling of emptiness

00:13:07.950 --> 00:13:11.590
desolation and the feeling of peace consolation.

00:13:12.029 --> 00:13:13.970
He came to believe that these weren't just his

00:13:13.970 --> 00:13:16.929
own moods. He believed they were signals, external

00:13:16.929 --> 00:13:19.830
impulses from different spirits, a good spirit

00:13:19.830 --> 00:13:22.289
and a bad spirit, helping him navigate his life

00:13:22.289 --> 00:13:24.710
choices. It's basically the first documented

00:13:24.710 --> 00:13:27.110
case of someone realizing, hey, maybe chasing

00:13:27.110 --> 00:13:29.809
clout and trying to look cool isn't actually

00:13:29.809 --> 00:13:32.490
making me happy in the long run. In a very profound

00:13:32.490 --> 00:13:34.970
way, yes. He's hacking his own spiritual and

00:13:34.970 --> 00:13:37.830
psychological reward system. He realizes that

00:13:37.830 --> 00:13:40.269
the immediate excitement of vanity was a deception.

00:13:40.889 --> 00:13:42.850
And he combines this with another technique he

00:13:42.850 --> 00:13:45.269
learned from one of the books, right? From Ludolf

00:13:45.269 --> 00:13:48.870
of Saxony's book. Yes. The book suggested a method

00:13:48.870 --> 00:13:52.460
of prayer called Simple contemplation. It's said

00:13:52.460 --> 00:13:54.220
that when you read the gospel, you shouldn't

00:13:54.220 --> 00:13:56.500
just read the words like a textbook. You should

00:13:56.500 --> 00:13:58.740
close your eyes and place yourself mentally at

00:13:58.740 --> 00:14:01.919
the scene. It's a visualization. Intense sensory

00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:04.980
visualization. If you are reading about the nativity,

00:14:05.139 --> 00:14:08.419
you should visualize the crib, try to smell the

00:14:08.419 --> 00:14:11.659
straw, hear the animals, feel the cold night

00:14:11.659 --> 00:14:14.980
air on your skin, be a character in the story.

00:14:15.820 --> 00:14:18.620
Ignatius, with his novelist's imagination, latched

00:14:18.620 --> 00:14:21.149
onto this. He took his capacity for fantasy,

00:14:21.350 --> 00:14:23.610
which he used to use for ladies and swords, and

00:14:23.610 --> 00:14:26.450
he completely redirected it, applying it to scripture.

00:14:26.889 --> 00:14:29.149
This methodology would later become the core

00:14:29.149 --> 00:14:32.169
of his famous spiritual exercises. So he's reprogramming

00:14:32.169 --> 00:14:34.190
his entire brain. He eventually heals enough

00:14:34.190 --> 00:14:36.129
to walk, though he's got this pronounced limp

00:14:36.129 --> 00:14:39.409
now. And he decides, OK, I'm done with the tight

00:14:39.409 --> 00:14:41.809
boots. I'm going to Jerusalem. That's his new

00:14:41.809 --> 00:14:44.309
quest. He leaves the castle. He rides to the

00:14:44.309 --> 00:14:46.570
famous Benedictine monastery of Santa Maria de

00:14:46.570 --> 00:14:49.169
Montserrat. And there we get. this incredibly

00:14:49.169 --> 00:14:51.549
cinematic scene that the sources call the Vigil

00:14:51.549 --> 00:14:53.649
of Arms. This is straight out of the chivalry

00:14:53.649 --> 00:14:55.769
books you used to read. It is deeply, deeply

00:14:55.769 --> 00:14:59.029
symbolic. In the romance novels, a knight would

00:14:59.029 --> 00:15:01.929
stand vigil over his weapons all night before

00:15:01.929 --> 00:15:04.970
a great quest or before being knighted. Right.

00:15:05.110 --> 00:15:07.590
Nugo does this. He spends the whole night in

00:15:07.590 --> 00:15:10.629
prayer before an altar of the Virgin Mary. But

00:15:10.629 --> 00:15:13.090
at the end of the night, he hangs his sword and

00:15:13.090 --> 00:15:16.289
dagger on the altar. He leaves them there. He

00:15:16.289 --> 00:15:19.500
surrenders the punkish swordsman. He's decommissioning

00:15:19.500 --> 00:15:22.139
his old self. And the vanity, too. He finds a

00:15:22.139 --> 00:15:24.480
beggar outside, gives him all of his expensive

00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:27.259
noble clothes, and puts on a rough sackcloth

00:15:27.259 --> 00:15:30.340
tunic. He's performing a total identity shift.

00:15:30.980 --> 00:15:32.679
You know, I always feel bad for that beggar in

00:15:32.679 --> 00:15:35.460
the story. Imagine walking around a 16th century

00:15:35.460 --> 00:15:37.820
Spanish town wearing a duke's outfit. He probably

00:15:37.820 --> 00:15:39.840
got arrested immediately for theft. It is highly

00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:42.200
probable he had a very bad day after having a

00:15:42.200 --> 00:15:45.240
very good one. So Inigo walks away in his sackcloth,

00:15:45.259 --> 00:15:47.659
and he heads to a nearby town called Manresa.

00:15:48.190 --> 00:15:50.029
He only intended to stay for a little while,

00:15:50.110 --> 00:15:52.149
but he ended up staying for about a year. And

00:15:52.149 --> 00:15:54.590
this becomes known as his cave period. From the

00:15:54.590 --> 00:15:57.250
castle to a cave. You can't get more extreme

00:15:57.250 --> 00:15:59.350
than that. What was he doing there? He lived

00:15:59.350 --> 00:16:01.909
in a natural cave near the river. He begged for

00:16:01.909 --> 00:16:04.950
food in the town. He did chores at a local hospital.

00:16:05.269 --> 00:16:08.450
And he prayed. He prayed for seven hours a day.

00:16:08.509 --> 00:16:10.909
He stopped cutting his hair and his nails. He

00:16:10.909 --> 00:16:13.649
became the visual opposite of the well -groomed

00:16:13.649 --> 00:16:16.509
courtier he once was. And during this time, the

00:16:16.509 --> 00:16:20.509
cave... Things get, well, they get weird. The

00:16:20.509 --> 00:16:22.590
source describes him having daylight visions.

00:16:22.970 --> 00:16:25.330
Yes, and we need to unpack the serpent vision

00:16:25.330 --> 00:16:27.669
because it's absolutely fascinating from a psychological

00:16:27.669 --> 00:16:29.789
perspective. Yeah, this sounds pretty trippy.

00:16:29.870 --> 00:16:32.230
What did he see? The source, his autobiography

00:16:32.230 --> 00:16:34.509
again, says he saw a form in the air next to

00:16:34.509 --> 00:16:37.190
him. It was exceedingly beautiful. It seemed

00:16:37.190 --> 00:16:39.450
to have the shape of a serpent, and it had many

00:16:39.450 --> 00:16:41.590
things that shone like eyes but were not eyes.

00:16:41.769 --> 00:16:43.909
A beautiful, shining serpent with fake eyes.

00:16:44.250 --> 00:16:46.529
That sounds terrifying, actually, not beautiful.

00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:49.700
Well, initially it gave him much delight. He

00:16:49.700 --> 00:16:52.360
loved gazing at it. It was mesmerizing. But,

00:16:52.419 --> 00:16:55.100
and here he applies his new tool of discernment.

00:16:55.279 --> 00:16:58.340
When the object vanished, he felt disconsolate.

00:16:58.399 --> 00:17:01.799
He felt bad. The crash again. The bad aftertaste.

00:17:01.960 --> 00:17:04.740
Exactly. He eventually interpreted this beautiful

00:17:04.740 --> 00:17:08.119
vision as being diabolical in nature. He realized

00:17:08.119 --> 00:17:10.200
that not all spiritual experiences are good.

00:17:10.700 --> 00:17:12.940
Some are beautiful distractions or deceptions.

00:17:13.099 --> 00:17:15.259
So he's refining his system. He's field testing

00:17:15.259 --> 00:17:17.859
it. Just because it glows and looks holy doesn't

00:17:17.859 --> 00:17:20.680
mean it is. He's learning to trust the lingering

00:17:20.680 --> 00:17:23.559
feeling, not the initial flash. So he's in the

00:17:23.559 --> 00:17:26.880
cave, battling shiny snake visions, figuring

00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:29.980
out his whole theology. He eventually leaves

00:17:29.980 --> 00:17:32.059
Manresa, and he actually makes it to the Holy

00:17:32.059 --> 00:17:36.440
Land. september 1523 he does he gets to jerusalem

00:17:36.440 --> 00:17:38.819
this is the goal he wants to spend the rest of

00:17:38.819 --> 00:17:41.119
his life there walking where jesus walked helping

00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:44.019
pilgrims but he only stays for a few weeks the

00:17:44.019 --> 00:17:46.140
franciscans who were the catholic custodians

00:17:46.140 --> 00:17:48.440
in charge of the holy sites sent him back to

00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:50.880
europe they kicked him out why was he too intense

00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:53.599
for them was he you know, scaring the tourists

00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:55.819
with his unkempt hair. It was more political

00:17:55.819 --> 00:17:58.660
than that. It was a very dangerous time. The

00:17:58.660 --> 00:18:01.619
Franciscans were trying to maintain a very delicate

00:18:01.619 --> 00:18:04.099
peace with the Ottoman rulers of the region.

00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:07.559
They didn't need a rogue sackcloth wearing Spanish

00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:10.859
pilgrim causing diplomatic incidents by trying

00:18:10.859 --> 00:18:12.980
to convert people in the streets. So he was a

00:18:12.980 --> 00:18:15.019
liability. A huge liability. They essentially

00:18:15.019 --> 00:18:17.460
put him on the first ship back and said. Go home.

00:18:17.559 --> 00:18:19.660
That must have been a crushing blow. Yeah. He

00:18:19.660 --> 00:18:22.519
gives up everything, has this massive spiritual

00:18:22.519 --> 00:18:25.980
transformation, walks across Europe, and gets

00:18:25.980 --> 00:18:28.119
fired from his own pilgrimage after just a couple

00:18:28.119 --> 00:18:30.960
of weeks. It was a huge reality check. He realized

00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:33.299
that zeal wasn't enough. Piety wasn't enough.

00:18:33.339 --> 00:18:36.329
If he wanted to really... help souls, as he put

00:18:36.329 --> 00:18:39.069
it. He needed credentials. He needed authority.

00:18:39.329 --> 00:18:41.569
He needed to be a priest. And to be a priest.

00:18:41.730 --> 00:18:44.349
He needed an education. But he's 33 years old

00:18:44.349 --> 00:18:47.150
at this point. In the 1500s, that's practically

00:18:47.150 --> 00:18:49.839
middle age. Yeah. And he doesn't have the basics.

00:18:50.099 --> 00:18:53.000
He barely knows Latin, the language of all scholarship.

00:18:53.299 --> 00:18:57.119
So we get this incredible image of Inigo, the

00:18:57.119 --> 00:18:59.000
former soldier, the man of the world, sitting

00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:01.779
in a free public grammar school in Barcelona.

00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:04.599
Children. Squeezed into a bench alongside 10

00:19:04.599 --> 00:19:07.279
-year -old boys chanting Latin conjugations.

00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:10.420
That requires a total death of the ego. I mean,

00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:13.119
the guy who had a piece of his own bone sawed

00:19:13.119 --> 00:19:15.619
off to look cool in boots is now the oldest kid

00:19:15.619 --> 00:19:18.180
in first grade. It shows an incredible amount

00:19:18.180 --> 00:19:20.319
of determination. He's willing to do whatever

00:19:20.319 --> 00:19:22.900
it takes. He eventually learns enough Latin to

00:19:22.900 --> 00:19:25.119
move to the University of Alcalá to study theology.

00:19:25.559 --> 00:19:28.960
But he runs into trouble again. The Inquisition.

00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:32.619
You can't have a good 16th century Spanish saint

00:19:32.619 --> 00:19:35.339
story without the Inquisition showing up eventually.

00:19:35.619 --> 00:19:39.200
Indeed. Ignatius, or Inigo, as he was still known,

00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:41.339
he wasn't just studying. He was also preaching

00:19:41.339 --> 00:19:43.759
on the street. He was teaching people his method

00:19:43.759 --> 00:19:46.279
of prayer and discernment. And strange things

00:19:46.279 --> 00:19:48.240
started happening. The source mentions women

00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:50.900
in his prayer groups experiencing ecstatic states,

00:19:51.200 --> 00:19:54.339
fainting, convulsions. Correct. It says one fell

00:19:54.339 --> 00:19:56.339
senseless, another sometimes rolled about on

00:19:56.339 --> 00:19:58.599
the ground. The Inquisition got very suspicious.

00:19:58.940 --> 00:20:00.900
Why? There was a group at the time called the

00:20:00.900 --> 00:20:03.640
El Embrados, the Illuminated Ones, who were considered

00:20:03.640 --> 00:20:06.500
heretical. They claimed direct inspiration from

00:20:06.500 --> 00:20:09.619
God, bypassing the church hierarchy. And the

00:20:09.619 --> 00:20:11.720
authorities thought Inigo might be one of them.

00:20:11.779 --> 00:20:14.180
It makes sense from their perspective. He's not

00:20:14.180 --> 00:20:16.720
a priest. He has no theology degree. But he's

00:20:16.720 --> 00:20:19.480
got these crowds of women rolling on the floor

00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:23.599
in religious ecstasy. That's a massive red flag

00:20:23.599 --> 00:20:25.140
for the religious establishment. So what did

00:20:25.140 --> 00:20:27.579
they do? He was interrogated and jailed briefly.

00:20:28.039 --> 00:20:30.359
They examined his teachings and eventually released

00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:33.660
him, finding no heresy. But they told him to

00:20:33.660 --> 00:20:36.119
stop teaching complex theology until he had a

00:20:36.119 --> 00:20:38.740
degree. They basically said, finish school first,

00:20:38.920 --> 00:20:41.299
then you can talk. So he decides to go to the

00:20:41.299 --> 00:20:43.400
big leagues. He decides to go to the intellectual

00:20:43.400 --> 00:20:45.940
capital of Europe at the time, the University

00:20:45.940 --> 00:20:48.099
of Paris. And this is where the squad comes together.

00:20:48.279 --> 00:20:50.799
This is a pivotal moment. He moves to Paris.

00:20:51.369 --> 00:20:54.329
He studies at the Collège de Montague and Collège

00:20:54.329 --> 00:20:57.109
Saint -Marne. And he starts gathering roommates.

00:20:57.470 --> 00:21:00.289
The most historically significant roommates of

00:21:00.289 --> 00:21:02.430
all time, perhaps? He gathers six companions

00:21:02.430 --> 00:21:04.849
around him. And looking at the list of who they

00:21:04.849 --> 00:21:06.930
were, the diversity is really interesting for

00:21:06.930 --> 00:21:08.730
the time. So who do we have on the team? Well,

00:21:08.750 --> 00:21:10.569
you have Francis Xavier, who was another Basque

00:21:10.569 --> 00:21:12.849
nobleman like Ignatius. You have Peter Faber,

00:21:12.869 --> 00:21:14.990
who was a sabayard from the French Alps. Then

00:21:14.990 --> 00:21:18.329
you have Alfonso Salmeron, Diego Lanas, and Nicolas

00:21:18.329 --> 00:21:20.849
Bobadilla, who were all Spaniards. And Simone

00:21:20.849 --> 00:21:23.490
Rodriguez, who was Portuguese. It's a multinational

00:21:23.490 --> 00:21:26.430
team, a European project. And Francis Xavier.

00:21:27.930 --> 00:21:31.230
He goes on to become a massive deal on his own

00:21:31.230 --> 00:21:33.549
right, a saint in his own right. A huge deal,

00:21:33.670 --> 00:21:35.829
one of the most prolific and famous missionaries

00:21:35.829 --> 00:21:38.789
in history. But interestingly... He didn't like

00:21:38.789 --> 00:21:41.710
Ignatius at first. Really? Not at all. Xavier

00:21:41.710 --> 00:21:45.349
was young, handsome, athletic, ambitious. He

00:21:45.349 --> 00:21:47.529
was everything Ignatius used to be. He looked

00:21:47.529 --> 00:21:50.910
at this older, limping, ragged student and thought

00:21:50.910 --> 00:21:52.690
he was an embarrassment. So how did Ignatius

00:21:52.690 --> 00:21:55.359
win him over? He used psychology. He didn't preach

00:21:55.359 --> 00:21:57.599
at him. He helped Xavier with his practical problems,

00:21:57.839 --> 00:22:01.059
finding him students to tutor for money. He praised

00:22:01.059 --> 00:22:03.440
his athletic ability. And then once he had his

00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:05.359
trust, he would just hit him with the question

00:22:05.359 --> 00:22:07.980
from the Gospels. What does it profit a man to

00:22:07.980 --> 00:22:10.500
gain the whole world and lose his soul? That's

00:22:10.500 --> 00:22:12.799
a heavy question to drop on your roommate. It

00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:15.559
worked. Eventually, the squad formed around Ignatius'

00:22:15.700 --> 00:22:18.000
spiritual direction. This is also where he changes

00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:21.039
his name, right? From the Basque Inigo to the

00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:24.640
more Latin Ignatius. Yes. He started using Ignatius

00:22:24.640 --> 00:22:27.500
consistently in Paris. It wasn't really a formal

00:22:27.500 --> 00:22:31.380
name change so much as a translation, a universalizing

00:22:31.380 --> 00:22:35.160
of his name. Ignatius was more recognizable and

00:22:35.160 --> 00:22:37.980
acceptable in the international academic worlds

00:22:37.980 --> 00:22:40.460
of France and Italy. He's branding. He's making

00:22:40.460 --> 00:22:42.660
his brand more accessible to a wider market.

00:22:42.779 --> 00:22:44.960
In a very practical sense, yes. And it works.

00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:47.920
This group of students, led by Ignatius, decides

00:22:47.920 --> 00:22:50.380
to formalize their bond to make a commitment

00:22:50.380 --> 00:22:54.269
together. This brings us to August 15. 1534.

00:22:54.269 --> 00:22:57.250
A very famous date. They go to the crypt of Saint

00:22:57.250 --> 00:22:59.349
-Denis in Montmartre, a little chapel on a hill

00:22:59.349 --> 00:23:01.730
outside Paris. A crucial moment. They meet in

00:23:01.730 --> 00:23:04.009
this small chapel, and a priest, Peter Faber,

00:23:04.109 --> 00:23:06.029
who was the only one ordained at the time, said

00:23:06.029 --> 00:23:08.529
mass, and then they all took solemn vows together.

00:23:08.710 --> 00:23:11.009
What were the vows? Poverty, chastity, and a

00:23:11.009 --> 00:23:13.230
vow to travel to the Holy Land. Standard monk

00:23:13.230 --> 00:23:16.210
stuff so far. Pretty standard. But later, when

00:23:16.210 --> 00:23:18.109
their clans to go to the Holy Land were blocked

00:23:18.109 --> 00:23:20.970
by war, they went to Rome to offer their services

00:23:20.970 --> 00:23:23.730
to the Pope. They officially formed the Society

00:23:23.730 --> 00:23:27.369
of Jesus the Jesuits in 1539 and got official

00:23:27.369 --> 00:23:30.930
approval from Pope Paul III in 1540. And that's

00:23:30.930 --> 00:23:32.549
when they added something unique. The fourth

00:23:32.549 --> 00:23:34.789
vow. The fourth vow. And this is what makes the

00:23:34.789 --> 00:23:37.930
Jesuits fundamentally different from, say, the

00:23:37.930 --> 00:23:40.609
Benedictines or the Franciscans. Okay, so let's

00:23:40.609 --> 00:23:43.049
unpack the fourth vow. What is it and why is

00:23:43.049 --> 00:23:45.950
it so important? Most religious orders take vows

00:23:45.950 --> 00:23:48.490
of poverty, chastity, and obedience to their

00:23:48.490 --> 00:23:51.589
superiors within the order. The Jesuits added

00:23:51.589 --> 00:23:54.549
a special fourth vow of obedience directly to

00:23:54.549 --> 00:23:57.170
the Pope, specifically regarding missions. Regarding

00:23:57.170 --> 00:23:59.410
missions. What does that mean in practice? It

00:23:59.410 --> 00:24:02.150
means they are, in essence, a papal rapid response

00:24:02.150 --> 00:24:05.190
force. If the Pope says, I need learned men to

00:24:05.190 --> 00:24:07.349
go debate Protestants in Germany, the Jesuit

00:24:07.349 --> 00:24:09.890
goes. If the Pope says, go to India and found

00:24:09.890 --> 00:24:12.450
a mission, the Jesuit goes. If he says, go to

00:24:12.450 --> 00:24:15.250
the New World, they go. So they aren't tied to

00:24:15.250 --> 00:24:17.799
a single monastery. Exactly. They aren't required

00:24:17.799 --> 00:24:19.819
to stay in one place and pray together in choir

00:24:19.819 --> 00:24:22.740
stalls every few hours like monks. They are designed

00:24:22.740 --> 00:24:25.359
to be mobile, adaptable, and ready to be deployed

00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:28.019
anywhere in the world at a moment's notice. This

00:24:28.019 --> 00:24:29.779
connects directly back to the military background,

00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:32.079
doesn't it? Ignatius is basically building a

00:24:32.079 --> 00:24:34.880
spiritual special ops team for the church. The

00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:37.940
military influence is undeniable. Ignatius was

00:24:37.940 --> 00:24:40.500
elected the first superior general of the order,

00:24:40.619 --> 00:24:43.339
and he emphasized this mobility and readiness.

00:24:43.579 --> 00:24:47.029
The motto they adopted sums it all up. Ad Maiorum

00:24:47.029 --> 00:24:50.009
Dei Gloriam. For the greater glory of God. And

00:24:50.009 --> 00:24:51.829
then there's that famous phrase he used in a

00:24:51.829 --> 00:24:53.869
letter to Francis Xavier, who was about to leave

00:24:53.869 --> 00:24:58.529
for Asia. Ait. Inflamate Omnia. Go set the world

00:24:58.529 --> 00:25:01.529
on fire. That is such a high energy slogan. It's

00:25:01.529 --> 00:25:04.349
not go pray quietly. It's set the world on fire.

00:25:04.490 --> 00:25:07.509
It implies action, energy, transformation. But,

00:25:07.509 --> 00:25:09.930
and here's the fascinating paradox of Ignatius

00:25:09.930 --> 00:25:12.670
and his spirituality, to achieve this high energy

00:25:12.670 --> 00:25:16.119
external... output, he demanded an internal discipline

00:25:16.119 --> 00:25:18.619
that he described with a very, very stark image.

00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:21.559
The corpse. The principle of perinde akadavr.

00:25:21.660 --> 00:25:25.500
Which means, as if a dead body. Yes. In the Jesuit

00:25:25.500 --> 00:25:28.420
Constitutions, which Ignatius spent years writing,

00:25:28.599 --> 00:25:32.019
he describes the ideal of obedience. A Jesuit

00:25:32.019 --> 00:25:34.200
should be like a corpse or a staff in an old

00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:36.500
man's hand. It can be moved anywhere without

00:25:36.500 --> 00:25:39.759
resistance. That sounds, well, a little creepy,

00:25:39.819 --> 00:25:43.319
to be honest. Be like a dead body. So passive.

00:25:43.539 --> 00:25:46.960
It sounds incredibly harsh to modern ears. But

00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:49.720
in his context, what he meant was a radical selflessness.

00:25:50.119 --> 00:25:53.019
A corpse has no ego. A corpse doesn't say, you

00:25:53.019 --> 00:25:54.779
know, I'd rather not go to India. It's too humid

00:25:54.779 --> 00:25:57.500
there. A corpse has no personal will that conflicts

00:25:57.500 --> 00:26:00.180
with the mission. He wanted his men to be completely

00:26:00.180 --> 00:26:02.920
available instruments of what he saw as divine

00:26:02.920 --> 00:26:05.940
providence. So on the outside, set the world

00:26:05.940 --> 00:26:08.720
on fire. But on the inside. Be as disciplined

00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:11.299
and ego -free as a corpse. Precisely. That tension

00:26:11.299 --> 00:26:13.519
between total active energy in the world and

00:26:13.519 --> 00:26:15.960
total passive obedience to the mission is the

00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:18.460
engine that drove the Jesuit order. Yeah. And

00:26:18.460 --> 00:26:19.980
it worked. It seems like it worked incredibly

00:26:19.980 --> 00:26:22.160
well. They spread like wildfire. They did. And

00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:24.700
they focused on two main things. Missionary work,

00:26:24.880 --> 00:26:26.799
sending people like Xavier to the ends of the

00:26:26.799 --> 00:26:29.220
earth, and education. All right. Education became

00:26:29.220 --> 00:26:31.380
their hallmark. Yeah. The source mentions they

00:26:31.380 --> 00:26:33.839
started opening colleges and seminaries all over

00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:37.019
Europe almost immediately. Yes. They became known

00:26:37.019 --> 00:26:40.079
as the schoolmasters of Europe. Ignatius had

00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:42.700
this insight that to influence society for the

00:26:42.700 --> 00:26:45.299
long term, you have to educate its future leaders.

00:26:45.500 --> 00:26:47.640
So they built this incredible network of schools.

00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:49.839
So Ignatius spends his final years in Rome. He's

00:26:49.839 --> 00:26:52.000
the general of this growing global army. He's

00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:54.019
writing the constitutions, managing it all from

00:26:54.019 --> 00:26:57.440
a small room. But the body of that punkish swordsman

00:26:57.440 --> 00:27:00.019
is finally starting to break down. His health

00:27:00.019 --> 00:27:03.319
failed pretty significantly by 1553. The sources

00:27:03.319 --> 00:27:06.019
talk about stomach ailments, fevers. He spent

00:27:06.019 --> 00:27:08.559
his last years in Rome managing this massive

00:27:08.559 --> 00:27:10.859
global network through thousands of letters,

00:27:11.019 --> 00:27:13.460
but he was in constant pain. He died on July

00:27:13.460 --> 00:27:16.920
31st, 1556. The source lists the official cause

00:27:16.920 --> 00:27:19.380
as Roman fever, which is a catch -all term for

00:27:19.380 --> 00:27:22.430
a type of severe malaria. But the autopsy, oh

00:27:22.430 --> 00:27:24.369
man, the autopsy report is something else. The

00:27:24.369 --> 00:27:26.910
autopsy is incredibly revealing. It was performed

00:27:26.910 --> 00:27:29.549
by a leading anatomist of the day named Mateo

00:27:29.549 --> 00:27:32.329
Colombo. And what he found inside Ignatius' body

00:27:32.329 --> 00:27:34.970
is just shocking. Read us the details. They're

00:27:34.970 --> 00:27:37.869
pretty graphic. Colombo wrote, I have taken out

00:27:37.869 --> 00:27:40.650
innumerable stones with my own hands. And he

00:27:40.650 --> 00:27:43.250
lists where he found them. Found in the kidneys,

00:27:43.509 --> 00:27:47.069
in the lungs, in the liver, and in the portal

00:27:47.069 --> 00:27:49.980
vein. Wait. Stones in the lungs and the portal

00:27:49.980 --> 00:27:52.140
vein? How is that even possible? And it gets

00:27:52.140 --> 00:27:55.500
worse. He also found stones in the gallbladder

00:27:55.500 --> 00:27:58.579
of various shapes and colors. Innumerable stones.

00:27:58.779 --> 00:28:02.230
The guy was basically a walking quarry. The modern

00:28:02.230 --> 00:28:05.549
medical speculation is that he had severe chronic

00:28:05.549 --> 00:28:08.150
nephrolithiasis, which is kidney stones, and

00:28:08.150 --> 00:28:10.750
cholelithiasis, which is gallstones. But the

00:28:10.750 --> 00:28:13.109
stones in the veins and liver suggest something

00:28:13.109 --> 00:28:16.150
more systemic, possibly even calcified tuberculosis

00:28:16.150 --> 00:28:19.630
or a malignant gastrointestinal growth. The pain

00:28:19.630 --> 00:28:22.359
must have been excruciating. unimaginable and

00:28:22.359 --> 00:28:24.519
that's the great irony i think we need to highlight

00:28:24.519 --> 00:28:26.920
here here is a man who taught thousands of people

00:28:26.920 --> 00:28:29.259
how to find mental and spiritual peace how to

00:28:29.259 --> 00:28:31.440
discern the movement of spirits how to find consolation

00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:34.099
in god and yet physically he was living in a

00:28:34.099 --> 00:28:37.019
state of absolute constant agony it adds another

00:28:37.019 --> 00:28:39.619
layer of toughness to him He wasn't just sitting

00:28:39.619 --> 00:28:42.500
in a garden meditating peacefully. He was grinding

00:28:42.500 --> 00:28:46.420
through crippling pain every single day to build

00:28:46.420 --> 00:28:48.259
this organization. And he worked until the very

00:28:48.259 --> 00:28:51.039
end. He died in Rome, his body was dressed in

00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:54.339
priestly robes, and he was buried. But his legacy,

00:28:54.440 --> 00:28:56.920
that cannonball effect, just kept expanding and

00:28:56.920 --> 00:28:59.220
expanding. Let's talk about that legacy for a

00:28:59.220 --> 00:29:01.279
minute. The most obvious thing is the universities.

00:29:01.539 --> 00:29:04.000
Oh, absolutely. Loyola University, Maryland.

00:29:04.240 --> 00:29:07.039
Loyola, Chicago. Loyola, New Orleans. Loyola,

00:29:07.039 --> 00:29:10.019
Marymount in L .A. The Ateneo Universities in

00:29:10.019 --> 00:29:12.779
the Philippines. Loyola College in Chennai, India.

00:29:12.940 --> 00:29:15.859
The name Loyola is synonymous with high -quality

00:29:15.859 --> 00:29:18.019
education all over the globe. And the shield.

00:29:18.279 --> 00:29:20.460
I never knew the story behind the Loyola family

00:29:20.460 --> 00:29:22.970
crest until I read the source. It's got wolves

00:29:22.970 --> 00:29:25.589
in a pot on it. It's the combined Onyas Loyola

00:29:25.589 --> 00:29:28.210
family crest. One side is for the Onyas family.

00:29:28.309 --> 00:29:31.210
It has seven maroon bars on a gold field representing

00:29:31.210 --> 00:29:33.630
bravery in battle. The other side is for the

00:29:33.630 --> 00:29:36.470
Loyola family. And that's the one with two rampant

00:29:36.470 --> 00:29:39.589
gray wolves flanking a cooking pot. Wolves in

00:29:39.589 --> 00:29:42.809
a pot. What on earth does that mean? It symbolizes

00:29:42.809 --> 00:29:45.960
generosity. The legend in the family was that

00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:48.640
the Loyolas were so generous, they always fed

00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:51.140
their soldiers and retainers so well that even

00:29:51.140 --> 00:29:53.279
the wolves had enough to feast on the leftovers

00:29:53.279 --> 00:29:55.420
from the cooking pot. That is a serious flex.

00:29:55.819 --> 00:29:58.900
We have so much food, even the local wolves are

00:29:58.900 --> 00:30:02.819
full. A classic medieval noble flex. And now

00:30:02.819 --> 00:30:05.660
that symbol is on university campuses all over

00:30:05.660 --> 00:30:07.779
the world, which is just incredible to think

00:30:07.779 --> 00:30:10.119
about. It really is. It's funny, looking back

00:30:10.119 --> 00:30:12.640
at the big themes we started with, we have the

00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:15.940
Basque bad boy. who just wants fame. He gets

00:30:15.940 --> 00:30:18.819
hit by a cannonball which shatters his leg and,

00:30:18.900 --> 00:30:21.480
more importantly, shatters his ego. He gets bored

00:30:21.480 --> 00:30:23.700
and accidentally discovers psychology. He lives

00:30:23.700 --> 00:30:25.819
in a cave and has visions. He goes back to school

00:30:25.819 --> 00:30:28.019
with 10 -year -olds. He builds an army of spiritual

00:30:28.019 --> 00:30:30.460
corpses and tells them to go set the world on

00:30:30.460 --> 00:30:34.039
fire. And he dies full of stones. It is a remarkable

00:30:34.039 --> 00:30:36.920
arc. It is the perfect story of the transformation

00:30:36.920 --> 00:30:39.680
of energy, the aggression of the soldier, that

00:30:39.680 --> 00:30:42.500
intense drive. It didn't go away. It was channeled.

00:30:42.500 --> 00:30:44.920
It was redirected. He stopped fighting for the

00:30:44.920 --> 00:30:47.519
Duke of Najra and started fighting for what he

00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:49.759
believed was the greater glory of God. And he's

00:30:49.759 --> 00:30:51.940
the patron saint of soldiers, which makes total

00:30:51.940 --> 00:30:54.380
sense. But the source also says he's the patron

00:30:54.380 --> 00:30:57.599
saint of. Accidents and injuries. Laughs. Yes.

00:30:58.400 --> 00:31:00.599
Given the whole cannonball incident, I think

00:31:00.599 --> 00:31:03.019
he earned that patronage, honestly. Absolutely.

00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:05.519
St. Ignatius, pray for me, I just stubbed my

00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:07.519
toe on the coffee table. Or St. Ignatius, pray

00:31:07.519 --> 00:31:09.819
for me, a cannonball just completely ruined my

00:31:09.819 --> 00:31:12.720
favorite pair of tight boots. Exactly. So what

00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:14.900
does this all mean for us, for you, listening?

00:31:15.299 --> 00:31:17.059
What's the takeaway? I think it has to come back

00:31:17.059 --> 00:31:19.099
to the cannonball, the randomness of it, the

00:31:19.099 --> 00:31:21.220
sheer chance. If that cannonball had been six

00:31:21.220 --> 00:31:24.019
inches to the left, it just misses him. It misses

00:31:24.019 --> 00:31:26.859
him. Inigo stays a soldier. He probably dies

00:31:26.859 --> 00:31:30.019
in some other pointless battle or grows old as

00:31:30.019 --> 00:31:32.599
a bitter, vanity -obsessed courtier telling rid

00:31:32.599 --> 00:31:34.799
of stories at the local tavern. And there are

00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:38.299
no Jesuits, no Loyola universities, no Pope Francis,

00:31:38.420 --> 00:31:41.000
who is the first Jesuit pope. History changes

00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:44.599
completely. But because of that one random, violent,

00:31:44.700 --> 00:31:47.799
painful moment, that shattering, he was forced

00:31:47.799 --> 00:31:50.819
to stop. He was forced to be still. He was forced

00:31:50.819 --> 00:31:53.660
to be bored. And in that silence, he was forced

00:31:53.660 --> 00:31:56.359
to look inward and found something entirely new.

00:31:56.519 --> 00:31:59.359
It's a powerful reminder that sometimes the worst

00:31:59.359 --> 00:32:01.240
thing that happens to you, the thing that breaks

00:32:01.240 --> 00:32:03.700
your leg and completely ruins your life's plans,

00:32:03.900 --> 00:32:06.099
might actually be the beginning of your real

00:32:06.099 --> 00:32:08.160
story. That is the lesson of his life, I think.

00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:10.599
The shattering is often the necessary prerequisite

00:32:10.599 --> 00:32:12.480
for the building. You have to be broken down

00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:14.500
before you can be built back up into something

00:32:14.500 --> 00:32:17.519
stronger. So here is our final thought for you

00:32:17.519 --> 00:32:19.700
to chew on today. We all have our plans. We all

00:32:19.700 --> 00:32:21.759
have our own version of tight boots that we want

00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:23.559
to look good in, the image we project to the

00:32:23.559 --> 00:32:26.380
world. But what is the cannonball moment in your

00:32:26.380 --> 00:32:29.279
life? What is the unexpected injury or failure

00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:32.619
or interruption that forced you to change direction?

00:32:33.099 --> 00:32:35.599
And did you fight it or did you use it like he

00:32:35.599 --> 00:32:38.359
did to find a new kind of discernment, a new

00:32:38.359 --> 00:32:41.200
way forward? Something to think about. Thanks

00:32:41.200 --> 00:32:43.680
for diving deep with us today. Until next time.
