WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.919 Welcome back to the Deep Dive. Today we are going 00:00:02.919 --> 00:00:05.820 to try and do something that I think feels almost 00:00:05.820 --> 00:00:08.740 impossible. We're going to try to look past one 00:00:08.740 --> 00:00:11.800 of the most famous images in the history of pop 00:00:11.800 --> 00:00:14.919 culture. It's an image you absolutely know. Oh, 00:00:14.919 --> 00:00:16.699 for sure. You've seen it a thousand times. It's 00:00:16.699 --> 00:00:19.219 on T -shirts, you know, worn by people who have 00:00:19.219 --> 00:00:21.559 probably never even heard a single note of his 00:00:21.559 --> 00:00:24.899 music. It's on posters in dorm rooms. If you 00:00:24.899 --> 00:00:27.940 looked up the word punk in the dictionary. this 00:00:27.940 --> 00:00:30.399 face would be there. It's the sneer, that curled 00:00:30.399 --> 00:00:32.399 lip, the spiky black hair that looks like it 00:00:32.399 --> 00:00:35.079 was cut with, I don't know, a lawnmower, maybe? 00:00:35.600 --> 00:00:38.560 The padlock necklace. We are talking, of course, 00:00:38.560 --> 00:00:41.380 about Sid Vicious. Born Simon John Ritchie. And 00:00:41.380 --> 00:00:43.119 that's really the paradox I want to grapple with 00:00:43.119 --> 00:00:46.340 today. Because on one hand, you have this global 00:00:46.340 --> 00:00:49.920 icon of rebellion. He is the complete embodiment 00:00:49.920 --> 00:00:52.859 of everything dark, decadent, nihilistic. Absolutely. 00:00:53.159 --> 00:00:55.159 But on the other hand, if we're being totally 00:00:55.159 --> 00:00:57.399 honest, And I know this might upset some of the 00:00:57.399 --> 00:00:59.380 purists out there. If you actually look at his 00:00:59.380 --> 00:01:01.500 musical contributions, well, they're practically 00:01:01.500 --> 00:01:04.620 nonexistent. Minimal would be a very polite way 00:01:04.620 --> 00:01:07.079 of putting it. But I think if you just dismiss 00:01:07.079 --> 00:01:09.420 him as, you know, a mannequin or some kind of 00:01:09.420 --> 00:01:12.650 marketing gimmick, you are missing. a much deeper, 00:01:12.810 --> 00:01:15.310 much, much darker story. This isn't really a 00:01:15.310 --> 00:01:18.109 story about music at all. It's a tragedy. It's 00:01:18.109 --> 00:01:21.590 about a chaotic 21 -year -old kid who was basically 00:01:21.590 --> 00:01:23.709 strapped into a rocket by the music industry 00:01:23.709 --> 00:01:26.010 and just launched directly into a brick wall. 00:01:26.150 --> 00:01:28.769 I love that image. A rocket into a brick wall. 00:01:28.870 --> 00:01:31.989 It feels so accurate because the velocity of 00:01:31.989 --> 00:01:36.109 his life was just insane. He died at 21. Most 00:01:36.109 --> 00:01:38.049 people are just finishing college or figuring 00:01:38.049 --> 00:01:40.370 out their first job at that age. and he had already 00:01:40.370 --> 00:01:43.010 become a global superstar a suspected murderer 00:01:43.010 --> 00:01:45.989 and a corpse the whole arc in just a few years 00:01:45.989 --> 00:01:48.569 unbelievable jaw wobble who was one of his closest 00:01:48.569 --> 00:01:50.510 friends growing up had a very specific phrase 00:01:50.510 --> 00:01:54.530 for it he called sid a kamikaze pilot he said 00:01:54.530 --> 00:01:56.670 the people around him the band the management 00:01:56.670 --> 00:01:58.969 they strapped him in patted him on the head and 00:01:58.969 --> 00:02:01.750 just sent him off to die That is so heavy. So 00:02:01.750 --> 00:02:03.590 our mission today really is to figure out who 00:02:03.590 --> 00:02:05.849 that pilot was. We want to find the human being 00:02:05.849 --> 00:02:08.129 who's buried under all that leather and hair 00:02:08.129 --> 00:02:10.590 gel. We have to talk about his mother, who is 00:02:10.590 --> 00:02:12.669 a character straight out of a gothic horror novel, 00:02:12.750 --> 00:02:15.229 and the toxic love affair with Nancy Spungen, 00:02:15.449 --> 00:02:17.710 and of course the legal mess at the end. And 00:02:17.710 --> 00:02:19.930 we have to look at the actual evidence, not just 00:02:19.930 --> 00:02:22.469 the myths, but the police records, the biographies, 00:02:22.469 --> 00:02:25.110 the accounts from people like John Lydon and 00:02:25.110 --> 00:02:27.490 Steve Jones. Because when you strip away the 00:02:27.490 --> 00:02:29.889 punk legend, What you're left with is a story 00:02:29.889 --> 00:02:33.409 about really neglect, addiction, and a desperate 00:02:33.409 --> 00:02:36.490 need to be someone, anyone other than Simon Ritchie. 00:02:36.590 --> 00:02:39.310 So let's go back, way back, before the sex pistols, 00:02:39.310 --> 00:02:42.490 before the heroin, before any of it. Who was 00:02:42.490 --> 00:02:44.689 Simon Ritchie? Where does a kid like this even 00:02:44.689 --> 00:02:47.270 come from? He comes from Lewsham, southeast London. 00:02:47.840 --> 00:02:51.419 Born May 10th, 1957. And if you think the chaos 00:02:51.419 --> 00:02:53.259 started when he joined the Sex Pistols, you'd 00:02:53.259 --> 00:02:55.840 be wrong. The chaos was there from like the delivery 00:02:55.840 --> 00:02:58.199 room. His father was a guardsman at Buckingham 00:02:58.199 --> 00:03:00.550 Palace. See, that sounds so fancy. Guardsmen 00:03:00.550 --> 00:03:03.250 at the palace. You picture stability, you know, 00:03:03.250 --> 00:03:06.090 discipline, shiny uniforms. Well, it was a total 00:03:06.090 --> 00:03:09.110 facade. His father was also a semi -pro trombone 00:03:09.110 --> 00:03:11.430 player, which is an odd detail. But he left the 00:03:11.430 --> 00:03:15.169 picture almost immediately, just vanished. He 00:03:15.169 --> 00:03:17.830 provided zero financial support. So it was just 00:03:17.830 --> 00:03:20.379 Simon and his mother and McDonald. She later 00:03:20.379 --> 00:03:22.960 became Anne Beverly. And honestly, we cannot 00:03:22.960 --> 00:03:25.159 understand Sid Vicious without first understanding 00:03:25.159 --> 00:03:28.360 Anne Beverly. She is the architect of his entire 00:03:28.360 --> 00:03:31.159 reality. I was reading about their time in Ibiza. 00:03:31.319 --> 00:03:33.900 And this wasn't a normal mom and son go on holiday 00:03:33.900 --> 00:03:36.520 kind of situation, was it? Not even close. This 00:03:36.520 --> 00:03:39.860 was the late 1950s and early 60s. So Anne takes 00:03:39.860 --> 00:03:43.400 Simon to Ibiza in Spain. Back then, Ibiza wasn't 00:03:43.400 --> 00:03:45.080 the club and capital of the world it is today. 00:03:45.199 --> 00:03:48.560 It was a hippie outpost, a very bohemian, kind 00:03:48.560 --> 00:03:51.180 of lawless. A bit rough around the edges. Very. 00:03:51.400 --> 00:03:53.539 And Anne wasn't working a nine to five. By most 00:03:53.539 --> 00:03:55.560 accounts, she was selling marijuana just to get 00:03:55.560 --> 00:03:57.740 by. So you have a toddler running around while 00:03:57.740 --> 00:03:59.740 his mom is dueling weed to beatniks in Spain. 00:03:59.900 --> 00:04:02.780 That's that's a wild image. Exactly. It was a 00:04:02.780 --> 00:04:05.419 completely unregulated childhood. No structure, 00:04:05.599 --> 00:04:08.199 no boundaries, nothing. Eventually, they moved 00:04:08.199 --> 00:04:10.500 back to England, bouncing around Tunbridge Wells 00:04:10.500 --> 00:04:13.379 in East London. But that instability just followed 00:04:13.379 --> 00:04:16.600 them. And then. The drugs got harder. Right. 00:04:16.699 --> 00:04:20.639 By 1973, when Simon is a teenager, Anne isn't 00:04:20.639 --> 00:04:22.899 just a free -spirited bohemian anymore. She is 00:04:22.899 --> 00:04:25.920 completely consumed by a heroin addiction. And 00:04:25.920 --> 00:04:28.639 that is such a pivotal detail. His mother was 00:04:28.639 --> 00:04:32.149 a heroin addict before he was. Yes. It was completely 00:04:32.149 --> 00:04:34.569 normalized in his household. Friends from that 00:04:34.569 --> 00:04:36.490 time claimed she was so checked out she didn't 00:04:36.490 --> 00:04:39.370 even realize he was attending college. And this 00:04:39.370 --> 00:04:41.490 leads to what I really consider the psychological 00:04:41.490 --> 00:04:44.709 big bang of Sid Vicious' life. The moment that, 00:04:44.810 --> 00:04:47.129 you could argue, broke him. The ultimatum. The 00:04:47.129 --> 00:04:50.500 ultimatum. Simon turned 16. And just consumed 00:04:50.500 --> 00:04:52.660 by her own demons and struggles, kicked him out. 00:04:52.920 --> 00:04:54.920 But she didn't just say, you know, you need to 00:04:54.920 --> 00:04:57.240 find your own place. She told him, and this is 00:04:57.240 --> 00:04:59.720 a quote, it's either you or me and it's not going 00:04:59.720 --> 00:05:01.759 to be me. I have got to try to preserve myself 00:05:01.759 --> 00:05:04.160 and you just fuck off. It's either you or me. 00:05:04.879 --> 00:05:07.040 I just can't imagine that level of rejection. 00:05:07.360 --> 00:05:10.480 You're 16 years old and your only parent looks 00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:13.160 you in the eye and basically says, I choose me. 00:05:13.279 --> 00:05:16.129 You're disposable. It's absolutely devastating. 00:05:16.310 --> 00:05:18.610 It creates this void inside you that you'll spend 00:05:18.610 --> 00:05:20.870 the rest of your life desperately trying to fill. 00:05:21.189 --> 00:05:23.910 And Simon's response was just heartbreakingly 00:05:23.910 --> 00:05:26.089 simple. He said, I have not got anywhere to go. 00:05:26.149 --> 00:05:27.949 And she effectively just said, I don't care. 00:05:28.290 --> 00:05:31.189 That explains so much, though. It explains why 00:05:31.189 --> 00:05:34.250 he latched on to John Lydon so tightly. It explains 00:05:34.250 --> 00:05:37.250 why he couldn't let go of Nancy later. He was 00:05:37.250 --> 00:05:39.660 just. terrified of being abandoned again absolutely 00:05:39.660 --> 00:05:41.980 he was always looking for a protector for a family 00:05:41.980 --> 00:05:44.660 and we know he was suffering while he was at 00:05:44.660 --> 00:05:46.899 kingsway college around the same time he actually 00:05:46.899 --> 00:05:48.740 told a counselor he was contemplating suicide 00:05:48.740 --> 00:05:51.819 this wasn't just you know teenage angst this 00:05:51.819 --> 00:05:54.180 was deep clinical distress but kingsway college 00:05:54.180 --> 00:05:57.180 is also where he finds his tribe so to speak 00:05:57.180 --> 00:05:59.399 this is where the whole cast of characters starts 00:05:59.399 --> 00:06:01.959 to assemble yes enter the four johns which i 00:06:01.959 --> 00:06:04.199 have to say sounds like a barbershop quartet 00:06:04.199 --> 00:06:07.000 but it was actually this little gang of misfits 00:06:07.480 --> 00:06:09.620 It really was. You had John Lydon, who would 00:06:09.620 --> 00:06:12.279 soon become the infamous Johnny Rotten. You had 00:06:12.279 --> 00:06:16.620 John Gray. You had John Wardle, who Sid later 00:06:16.620 --> 00:06:19.560 nicknamed Jawobble because of his drunken pronunciation 00:06:19.560 --> 00:06:22.300 of his name. And then you had Simon John Ritchie, 00:06:22.379 --> 00:06:24.480 who was going by John Beverly at the time. So 00:06:24.480 --> 00:06:26.379 what were they actually doing? Were they, like, 00:06:26.399 --> 00:06:30.120 making music yet? Or just causing trouble? Not 00:06:30.120 --> 00:06:32.240 really making music. They were just existing. 00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:35.180 They were squatting in these derelict Victorian 00:06:35.180 --> 00:06:37.920 houses in London. We really have to paint the 00:06:37.920 --> 00:06:39.920 picture of London in the mid -70s. It wasn't 00:06:39.920 --> 00:06:42.100 the wealthy, polished city you see today. It 00:06:42.100 --> 00:06:44.379 was great. It was still bombed out in places. 00:06:44.459 --> 00:06:46.779 It was filled with trash strikes and unemployment. 00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:50.350 These kids were just... bored out of their minds. 00:06:50.410 --> 00:06:53.290 Beck completely broke. Utterly destitute. Lydon 00:06:53.290 --> 00:06:55.689 and Sid used to go busking in the subway stations, 00:06:55.810 --> 00:06:57.949 but they couldn't play anything. Sid would have 00:06:57.949 --> 00:07:00.110 a violin with one string or maybe a tambourine 00:07:00.110 --> 00:07:02.269 and they would just scream Alice Cooper covers. 00:07:02.550 --> 00:07:05.269 Wait, Alice Cooper? Not exactly punk rock. No, 00:07:05.290 --> 00:07:06.990 but it was theatrical. They do I Love the Dead, 00:07:07.069 --> 00:07:09.649 things like that. They sounded so unbelievably 00:07:09.649 --> 00:07:11.810 horrible that people gave them money just to 00:07:11.810 --> 00:07:14.290 make them stop. That's amazing. Their business 00:07:14.290 --> 00:07:17.529 model was based on annoyance. Here's 50 pence. 00:07:17.529 --> 00:07:19.269 Please just shut up. It was performance art, 00:07:19.290 --> 00:07:22.829 really. But we have to address the name. Sid 00:07:22.829 --> 00:07:25.850 Vicious. It sounds like a wrestling villain. 00:07:25.990 --> 00:07:27.509 It sounds like a guy who carries a switchblade. 00:07:28.069 --> 00:07:31.970 But the origin story is... Well, it's significantly 00:07:31.970 --> 00:07:34.689 less intimidating. It is the great irony of his 00:07:34.689 --> 00:07:37.350 entire life. It involves a hamster. A hamster! 00:07:37.720 --> 00:07:40.160 You're kidding. No, John Layden had a pet hamster 00:07:40.160 --> 00:07:42.439 named Sid. He named him after Sid Barrett from 00:07:42.439 --> 00:07:44.459 Pink Floyd, you know, the original psychedelic 00:07:44.459 --> 00:07:47.819 casualty. One day, this little hamster bit Simon 00:07:47.819 --> 00:07:50.500 on the finger. Okay. And Simon, reacting to the 00:07:50.500 --> 00:07:52.600 bite, just exclaimed, Sid is really vicious. 00:07:52.879 --> 00:07:55.639 And that stuck from a hamster bite. Layden seized 00:07:55.639 --> 00:07:57.740 on it immediately. Sid vicious. He just dubbed 00:07:57.740 --> 00:07:59.779 him that right on the spot. But here is the absolute 00:07:59.779 --> 00:08:02.899 key. Layden gave him that name as a total joke. 00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:06.779 It was ironic. At the time, Simon was this sweet... 00:08:06.910 --> 00:08:09.430 Kind of goofy, slightly dim kid. He wasn't a 00:08:09.430 --> 00:08:11.470 tough guy at all. Calling him vicious was like 00:08:11.470 --> 00:08:14.209 calling a giant guy tiny. That's fascinating. 00:08:14.449 --> 00:08:16.949 So the whole persona, the whole identity that 00:08:16.949 --> 00:08:19.670 would define him, it started as a joke. But then 00:08:19.670 --> 00:08:22.209 he spent the rest of his very short life trying 00:08:22.209 --> 00:08:24.689 to live up to a hamster's reputation. Exactly. 00:08:24.689 --> 00:08:26.649 He grew into the name. Or maybe the name just 00:08:26.649 --> 00:08:28.610 swallowed him whole. He started to armor himself 00:08:28.610 --> 00:08:31.230 with this character. So we're in the pre -Pistols 00:08:31.230 --> 00:08:35.590 era now. This is 1975, 1976. The punk scene is 00:08:35.590 --> 00:08:38.470 just starting to bubble. You've got Malcolm McLaren 00:08:38.470 --> 00:08:41.590 and Vivienne Westwood shop sex on the King's 00:08:41.590 --> 00:08:43.789 Road. This is ground zero for the old -fashioned 00:08:43.789 --> 00:08:45.909 side of it. The bondage pants, the safety pins. 00:08:46.389 --> 00:08:49.509 And Sid is just, what, hanging out. He was a 00:08:49.509 --> 00:08:52.110 fixture there. He was the ultimate fanboy. He 00:08:52.110 --> 00:08:54.549 just soaked up the aesthetic. He was actually 00:08:54.549 --> 00:08:56.870 trying to be a musician, to be fair. He formed 00:08:56.870 --> 00:08:58.809 a band called the Flowers of Romance with Keith 00:08:58.809 --> 00:09:01.309 Levine, who later went on to public image LTD. 00:09:01.669 --> 00:09:04.149 He also played drums for Suzy and the Banshees 00:09:04.149 --> 00:09:06.590 at their very first gig at the 100 Club. Was 00:09:06.590 --> 00:09:09.549 he any good on drums? Or was it just noise? By 00:09:09.549 --> 00:09:11.950 all accounts, it was a complete cacophony. I 00:09:11.950 --> 00:09:13.529 think they played the Lord's Prayer for about 00:09:13.529 --> 00:09:15.970 20 minutes straight. It was all about the impact, 00:09:16.049 --> 00:09:19.460 not the skill. But there's a story involving 00:09:19.460 --> 00:09:22.399 Chrissy Hynde around this time that shows just 00:09:22.399 --> 00:09:26.740 how chaotic and directionless his life was. Chrissy 00:09:26.740 --> 00:09:29.379 Hynde from The Pretenders. The very same. She 00:09:29.379 --> 00:09:32.240 was an American expat in London trying to make 00:09:32.240 --> 00:09:34.559 it in music, but she was facing deportation. 00:09:34.559 --> 00:09:37.740 She needed a work permit to stay. So she came 00:09:37.740 --> 00:09:40.820 up with a plan to marry Sid. A green card marriage, 00:09:41.059 --> 00:09:43.360 basically. A British citizenship marriage, yeah. 00:09:43.580 --> 00:09:46.539 And she offered him two pounds. Two pounds. That's 00:09:46.539 --> 00:09:48.620 what the price was. a pint of beer. He sold his 00:09:48.620 --> 00:09:51.179 bachelorhood for two pounds. He needed the money 00:09:51.179 --> 00:09:53.639 for food or cigarettes or something. He agreed. 00:09:53.740 --> 00:09:55.539 They actually went down to the registry office 00:09:55.539 --> 00:09:59.340 to do it. And this is just classic Sid. The office 00:09:59.340 --> 00:10:01.860 was closed because it was a bank holiday. They 00:10:01.860 --> 00:10:04.360 couldn't get it done. So he was foiled by a bank 00:10:04.360 --> 00:10:06.919 holiday. It's like a plot from a bad sitcom. 00:10:07.370 --> 00:10:09.769 It is, but it shows his personality. He was just 00:10:09.769 --> 00:10:11.769 a leaf in the wind, willing to go along with 00:10:11.769 --> 00:10:14.590 absolutely anything. But he did have these moments 00:10:14.590 --> 00:10:18.230 of intense, almost manic focus. I remember reading 00:10:18.230 --> 00:10:20.509 about the Ramones album. This is a really crucial 00:10:20.509 --> 00:10:22.529 anecdote, and I think Chrissy Hine told this 00:10:22.529 --> 00:10:25.309 story in a documentary. The first Ramones album 00:10:25.309 --> 00:10:29.090 came out. And it just changed everything. It 00:10:29.090 --> 00:10:32.190 was fast, simple, all downstrokes on the bass. 00:10:32.690 --> 00:10:35.350 Sid decided he wanted to play bass exactly like 00:10:35.350 --> 00:10:37.789 D .D. Ramone, so he got a bunch of amphetamine 00:10:37.789 --> 00:10:40.590 speed and stayed up for three days and nights 00:10:40.590 --> 00:10:43.149 straight. Just playing along to the record over 00:10:43.149 --> 00:10:45.649 and over. Non -stop, just grinding away at the 00:10:45.649 --> 00:10:47.789 bass in his squat, trying to learn that rhythm. 00:10:47.970 --> 00:10:50.210 And on one hand, you can look at that and say, 00:10:50.309 --> 00:10:52.529 wow, that's incredible dedication. But on the 00:10:52.529 --> 00:10:54.909 other hand, look at the method. Three days on 00:10:54.909 --> 00:10:57.940 speed. That's not practice. That's a manic episode. 00:10:58.100 --> 00:11:01.379 That is drug abuse masquerading as artistic discipline. 00:11:01.659 --> 00:11:03.639 It sets the pattern for his whole life, doesn't 00:11:03.639 --> 00:11:06.240 it? Everything he did had to be extreme. He couldn't 00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:07.919 just, you know, take a lesson. He had to stay 00:11:07.919 --> 00:11:10.779 up for 72 hours on meth. Precisely. And that 00:11:10.779 --> 00:11:13.100 intensity, that willingness to self -destruct 00:11:13.100 --> 00:11:15.799 is exactly what Malcolm McLaren was looking for. 00:11:15.960 --> 00:11:20.480 Which brings us to February 1977. The sex pistols 00:11:20.480 --> 00:11:23.519 are already notorious. Anarchy in the UK is out. 00:11:23.559 --> 00:11:25.799 They've been on the Bill Grundy show. But they 00:11:25.799 --> 00:11:28.759 have a problem. Their bass player, Glenn Matlock. 00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:31.379 Glenn Matlock was the anomaly in the Sex Pistols. 00:11:31.639 --> 00:11:35.139 He was a competent, even gifted musician. He 00:11:35.139 --> 00:11:36.960 wrote a lot of the music. He was relatively sober. 00:11:37.720 --> 00:11:39.940 And he liked the Beatles. And McLaren hated that. 00:11:40.220 --> 00:11:42.500 McCream wasn't managing a band. He was managing 00:11:42.500 --> 00:11:44.600 a revolution, or at least the appearance of one. 00:11:44.940 --> 00:11:48.220 He wanted chaos. He wanted headlines. Matlock 00:11:48.220 --> 00:11:50.539 was too, well, he was too safe. Too musical. 00:11:50.899 --> 00:11:53.980 So McLaren manufactured this story that Matlock 00:11:53.980 --> 00:11:56.039 was thrown out for liking the Beatles, and he 00:11:56.039 --> 00:11:59.720 brought in Sid. But why Sid? If he couldn't play, 00:11:59.860 --> 00:12:02.620 why him of all people? Because of the look. McLaren 00:12:02.620 --> 00:12:04.580 said, and this is another famous quote, if Johnny 00:12:04.580 --> 00:12:06.639 Rotten is the voice of punk, then vicious is 00:12:06.639 --> 00:12:09.960 the attitude. Sid looked amazing. He was tall, 00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:12.299 skinny, pale, covered in these little scars and 00:12:12.299 --> 00:12:14.519 safety pins. He looked like a disaster waiting 00:12:14.519 --> 00:12:16.720 to happen. He was the perfect visual. He was 00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:19.120 a human billboard for the movement. Exactly. 00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:21.899 But bringing him in changed the chemistry of 00:12:21.899 --> 00:12:25.039 the band entirely. It shifted them from a, you 00:12:25.039 --> 00:12:27.679 know, pretty good rock band into a traveling 00:12:27.679 --> 00:12:30.600 circus of actual violence. Let's talk about that 00:12:30.600 --> 00:12:32.779 violence, because I think there is a tendency 00:12:32.779 --> 00:12:35.039 to romanticize it, to say, oh, that was just 00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:37.440 punk rock. But when you look at the specifics 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:40.480 of what he did, it's actually quite disturbing. 00:12:40.720 --> 00:12:43.659 It is. It's not performance art. Take the Nick 00:12:43.659 --> 00:12:46.519 Kent incident. Nick Kent was a very prominent 00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:49.279 music critic for the NME. He was at a show at 00:12:49.279 --> 00:12:52.559 the 100 Club. Sid was there, high on speed, wearing 00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:55.779 his usual gear. And he felt Kent was blocking 00:12:55.779 --> 00:12:58.659 his view of the stage. Okay, so a normal person 00:12:58.659 --> 00:13:00.679 would, what, tap him on the shoulder, say, excuse 00:13:00.679 --> 00:13:03.440 me, can you move a bit? Sid pulled out a rusty 00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:05.279 motorcycle chain that he kept in his pocket. 00:13:05.690 --> 00:13:07.649 And he just whipped Kent across the head with 00:13:07.649 --> 00:13:10.110 it. A rusted chain. That's practically a medieval 00:13:10.110 --> 00:13:12.169 weapon. You could get tetanus just looking at 00:13:12.169 --> 00:13:14.590 that. It opened up a huge gash on Kent's head. 00:13:14.750 --> 00:13:16.750 Blood was everywhere. It wasn't a punk statement. 00:13:16.950 --> 00:13:19.450 It was assault with a deadly weapon. And then 00:13:19.450 --> 00:13:21.110 you have the incident at the damned concert. 00:13:21.269 --> 00:13:23.779 Right. The glass throwing. He was drunk, high, 00:13:24.019 --> 00:13:26.440 just thrashing around in the crowd. He threw 00:13:26.440 --> 00:13:29.539 a glass at the stage, supposedly aiming for Dave 00:13:29.539 --> 00:13:32.480 Vanyan, the singer of the damned. He missed. 00:13:32.879 --> 00:13:35.860 The glass hit a pillar, shattered, and the shards 00:13:35.860 --> 00:13:39.080 flew into the audience. A girl was blinded in 00:13:39.080 --> 00:13:41.940 one eye. He blinded the fan. Yes, he went to 00:13:41.940 --> 00:13:44.940 the Ashford Romand Center for that. And this 00:13:44.940 --> 00:13:47.299 is where I really struggle with the poor, innocent 00:13:47.299 --> 00:13:49.519 Sid narrative. Yes, he was troubled. Yes, he 00:13:49.519 --> 00:13:52.059 was exploited. But he was also j***ed. genuinely 00:13:52.059 --> 00:13:54.840 dangerous. He was hurting innocent people. That's 00:13:54.840 --> 00:13:57.019 a really important distinction to make. It's 00:13:57.019 --> 00:13:59.000 easy to see him as a victim of the industry, 00:13:59.120 --> 00:14:01.539 and in many ways he was, but to that girl who 00:14:01.539 --> 00:14:03.779 lost an eye, he's the villain of the story, full 00:14:03.779 --> 00:14:06.200 stop. Absolutely. And the band, you know, Lydon, 00:14:06.299 --> 00:14:08.320 Steve Jones, Paul Cook, they were watching this 00:14:08.320 --> 00:14:10.899 happen. They saw him spiraling. But the chaos 00:14:10.899 --> 00:14:13.259 sold records. The press loved it. Every single 00:14:13.259 --> 00:14:15.240 time Sid hit someone, they got a front page story. 00:14:15.500 --> 00:14:17.179 So he's in the band. They go into the studio 00:14:17.179 --> 00:14:19.159 to record the album. Never mind the bollocks. 00:14:19.259 --> 00:14:21.830 This is like the holy grail. rail of punk albums. 00:14:21.850 --> 00:14:25.070 It's a landmark record. And Sid, he isn't even 00:14:25.070 --> 00:14:28.769 on it. Barely. This is the great secret of the 00:14:28.769 --> 00:14:31.509 Sex Pistols. When it came time to actually record 00:14:31.509 --> 00:14:34.250 the bass parts, Sid was in the hospital with 00:14:34.250 --> 00:14:36.809 hepatitis. From the drug use. Almost certainly 00:14:36.809 --> 00:14:39.769 from dirty needles, yes. So he was laid up in 00:14:39.769 --> 00:14:42.909 the hospital. Steve Jones, the guitarist, ended 00:14:42.909 --> 00:14:44.450 up just playing on the bass parts on the record 00:14:44.450 --> 00:14:47.490 he just overdubbed them himself so when you listen 00:14:47.490 --> 00:14:50.389 to god save the queen or holidays in the sun 00:14:50.389 --> 00:14:54.250 those iconic driving bass lines that's the guitars 00:14:54.250 --> 00:14:56.429 playing so the icon of the band the guy on the 00:14:56.429 --> 00:14:58.830 shirt isn't even playing the music he's famous 00:14:58.830 --> 00:15:02.419 for He is a ghost on his own album. Now, to be 00:15:02.419 --> 00:15:04.480 fair, he did try. He came out of the hospital 00:15:04.480 --> 00:15:06.360 and tried to lay down a bass track for the song 00:15:06.360 --> 00:15:09.279 Bodies, but he was so rusty and out of time that 00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:11.200 they just turned his track way down in the mix 00:15:11.200 --> 00:15:13.940 and used Jones' part anyway? There's always been 00:15:13.940 --> 00:15:15.740 this rumor that at live shows they would just 00:15:15.740 --> 00:15:18.289 unplug his amplifier. Is that true? Oh, it happened 00:15:18.289 --> 00:15:21.210 frequently, especially early on. The sound engineers, 00:15:21.309 --> 00:15:23.490 or sometimes even Steve Jones, would just cut 00:15:23.490 --> 00:15:26.370 his feed to the PA system. So Sid would be up 00:15:26.370 --> 00:15:29.049 there thrashing around, sweating, posing for 00:15:29.049 --> 00:15:31.529 the cameras, thinking he was tearing the roof 00:15:31.529 --> 00:15:33.750 off the place, and nobody could hear a single 00:15:33.750 --> 00:15:37.590 note he was playing. Wow. That is so psychologically 00:15:37.590 --> 00:15:39.570 devastating if you think about it. He's not a 00:15:39.570 --> 00:15:42.269 musician. He's a prop. He's a mascot. Well, he 00:15:42.269 --> 00:15:44.029 was a mascot who could bleed. That's what made 00:15:44.029 --> 00:15:47.470 him valuable. And then, into this already incredibly 00:15:47.470 --> 00:15:51.009 unstable mix, walks the ultimate catalyst, Nancy 00:15:51.009 --> 00:15:55.129 Spungen. Nancy. If Seed was a bomb, Nancy was 00:15:55.129 --> 00:15:57.590 the lit match. She was an American groupie who 00:15:57.590 --> 00:16:00.049 came to London with the expletive goal of hooking 00:16:00.049 --> 00:16:02.610 up with a sex pistol. She actually aimed for 00:16:02.610 --> 00:16:04.669 Johnny Rotten first. She tried to get with Rotten. 00:16:04.690 --> 00:16:06.289 I didn't know that. She did. And Rotten wanted 00:16:06.289 --> 00:16:08.409 absolutely nothing to do with her. He found her 00:16:08.409 --> 00:16:13.009 abrasive, loud, just... But Sid, Sid was lonely, 00:16:13.129 --> 00:16:15.830 Sid was deeply insecure, and Sid was very easily 00:16:15.830 --> 00:16:18.529 led. Can you describe her background a bit? Because 00:16:18.529 --> 00:16:20.409 she gets villainized so much in the story, you 00:16:20.409 --> 00:16:22.909 know, nauseating Nancy. But she was a pretty 00:16:22.909 --> 00:16:25.990 damaged person herself. She really was. She had 00:16:25.990 --> 00:16:28.149 severe mental health issues from a very young 00:16:28.149 --> 00:16:30.330 age. She had been diagnosed with schizophrenia, 00:16:30.590 --> 00:16:32.289 though you have to remember diagnoses back then 00:16:32.289 --> 00:16:34.690 were tricky. She was a heroin addict. She was 00:16:34.690 --> 00:16:37.169 a hustler. She had been a stripper, a prostitute, 00:16:37.169 --> 00:16:39.730 a drug runner. She was a survivor, but a deeply 00:16:39.730 --> 00:16:41.950 chaotic one. And when the two of them got together, 00:16:42.029 --> 00:16:44.070 it just became this closed loop of destruction. 00:16:44.450 --> 00:16:46.809 They called them the Romeo and Juliet of punk, 00:16:47.009 --> 00:16:49.309 but it was strictly the tragedy part. It was 00:16:49.309 --> 00:16:52.850 a profound codependency. Sid liked feeling needed. 00:16:53.009 --> 00:16:55.309 He would play nursemaid to her when she was sick 00:16:55.309 --> 00:16:58.750 from drugs. And Nancy liked having control. She 00:16:58.750 --> 00:17:00.830 would procure the heroin and start to manage 00:17:00.830 --> 00:17:03.549 his life. But it was incredibly violent, wasn't 00:17:03.549 --> 00:17:05.589 it? Their relationship. Extremely. They fought 00:17:05.589 --> 00:17:08.549 constantly. I mean, physical fights. Punching, 00:17:08.549 --> 00:17:10.829 scratching, throwing things. They shared a bizarre 00:17:10.829 --> 00:17:14.250 fascination with knives. But they were also completely 00:17:14.250 --> 00:17:17.250 inseparable. And the rest of the band just hated 00:17:17.250 --> 00:17:19.900 her. Why? Was it just because she was annoying 00:17:19.900 --> 00:17:22.470 or was it something deeper? It was because she 00:17:22.470 --> 00:17:25.549 was isolating Sid from them. She was whispering 00:17:25.549 --> 00:17:27.930 in his ear that he was the real star, that the 00:17:27.930 --> 00:17:30.670 band was holding him back. And more importantly, 00:17:30.930 --> 00:17:33.809 she was accelerating his heroin use from a sort 00:17:33.809 --> 00:17:36.910 of occasional thing to a full -blown daily habit. 00:17:36.990 --> 00:17:39.769 It got so bad, Malcolm McLaren actually tried 00:17:39.769 --> 00:17:42.089 to have her kidnapped. Kidnapped, for real. He 00:17:42.089 --> 00:17:44.769 formulated a plan to grab her, shove her in a 00:17:44.769 --> 00:17:47.210 car, and force her onto a plane back to New York, 00:17:47.329 --> 00:17:50.990 just to get her away from Sid and the band. But 00:17:50.990 --> 00:17:52.710 it never worked out. Sid would have never let 00:17:52.710 --> 00:17:55.369 her go. So this toxic train wreck of a relationship 00:17:55.369 --> 00:17:58.990 then heads to America. January 1978, the big 00:17:58.990 --> 00:18:01.589 U .S. tour. The tour that killed the band. It 00:18:01.589 --> 00:18:03.930 was an absolute disaster from day one. Warner 00:18:03.930 --> 00:18:06.690 Brothers, their U .S. label, demanded that Sid 00:18:06.690 --> 00:18:08.829 clean up before the tour. They didn't want a 00:18:08.829 --> 00:18:11.569 junkie on the payroll, so they put him on methadone. 00:18:11.690 --> 00:18:13.670 But methadone doesn't get you high. It just stops 00:18:13.670 --> 00:18:15.549 you from getting sick from withdrawal. Exactly. 00:18:15.829 --> 00:18:18.509 So he was irritable, he was in withdrawal, and 00:18:18.509 --> 00:18:20.970 he was drinking very heavily to compensate. And 00:18:20.970 --> 00:18:23.170 worst of all, from his perspective, Nancy was 00:18:23.170 --> 00:18:26.390 banned from the tour. So he's alone, sick. angry 00:18:26.390 --> 00:18:29.089 and in the foreign country and they booked them 00:18:29.089 --> 00:18:31.670 into these cowboy bars in the deep south places 00:18:31.670 --> 00:18:34.650 in texas and oklahoma mclaren wanted a culture 00:18:34.650 --> 00:18:37.450 clash he wanted to see rednecks versus punks 00:18:37.450 --> 00:18:39.549 he wanted a fight and sid delivered that fight 00:18:39.549 --> 00:18:43.569 oh he did in dallas the tension was just unbearable 00:18:43.569 --> 00:18:47.029 before the show backstage sid took a razor blade 00:18:47.029 --> 00:18:50.470 and carved the words give me a fix into his bare 00:18:50.470 --> 00:18:54.269 chest give me a fix yeah deep cuts bleeding down 00:18:54.269 --> 00:18:56.799 his stomach And he went out on stage like that, 00:18:56.839 --> 00:18:59.579 covered in blood and sweat. And he grabbed the 00:18:59.579 --> 00:19:01.440 microphone and just screamed at the audience. 00:19:01.640 --> 00:19:04.619 You bunch of redneck cowboy faggots. In 1978, 00:19:04.980 --> 00:19:08.319 Texas, that is basically a suicide wish. The 00:19:08.319 --> 00:19:10.900 crowd went berserk. They threw beer cans, bottles, 00:19:11.140 --> 00:19:13.660 food, anything they could find. Sid was covered 00:19:13.660 --> 00:19:15.539 in spit and blood. It wasn't a concert. It was 00:19:15.539 --> 00:19:17.559 a riot that happened to have a soundtrack. And 00:19:17.559 --> 00:19:19.480 that energy just completely drained everyone. 00:19:19.559 --> 00:19:21.519 It couldn't have been sustainable. It broke them. 00:19:21.930 --> 00:19:24.170 By the time they got to San Francisco for the 00:19:24.170 --> 00:19:26.430 final show at the Winterland Ballroom, it was 00:19:26.430 --> 00:19:29.269 all over. Sid's bass wasn't working half the 00:19:29.269 --> 00:19:32.230 time. He was barely standing. Johnny Rotten looked 00:19:32.230 --> 00:19:35.130 at the crowd, then looked at his band, and realized 00:19:35.130 --> 00:19:37.349 the whole joke was over. That's when he delivered 00:19:37.349 --> 00:19:39.569 that famous line. Ever get the feeling you've 00:19:39.569 --> 00:19:42.150 been cheated? And he just walked off stage. Band 00:19:42.150 --> 00:19:44.970 over. Just like that. But Sid's personal drama 00:19:44.970 --> 00:19:48.349 was just... peaking, wasn't it? The band breaks 00:19:48.349 --> 00:19:51.490 up and what does he do? He overdoses almost immediately. 00:19:51.869 --> 00:19:54.349 On the plane or right before getting on it. He 00:19:54.349 --> 00:19:56.730 went into a coma. When he woke up in the hospital 00:19:56.730 --> 00:19:59.109 in New York, the doctor gave him a very, very 00:19:59.109 --> 00:20:01.710 specific warning. He told him, your liver is 00:20:01.710 --> 00:20:03.910 shot. If you don't quit drinking, you will be 00:20:03.910 --> 00:20:06.289 dead in six months. Six months. That's a direct 00:20:06.289 --> 00:20:08.970 warning. Sid died almost exactly a year later. 00:20:09.190 --> 00:20:12.539 So Post Pistols, Sid is now in New York. Nancy 00:20:12.539 --> 00:20:15.019 is effectively his manager, and they move into 00:20:15.019 --> 00:20:17.539 the Chelsea Hotel. Room 100, on the first floor. 00:20:17.829 --> 00:20:19.630 Now, the Chelsea Hotel is legendary. You know, 00:20:19.670 --> 00:20:21.950 Bob Dylan lived there, Leonard Cohen, Janis Joplin. 00:20:22.069 --> 00:20:25.089 But by 1978, what was it actually like? It was 00:20:25.089 --> 00:20:27.809 a complete dive. It was decaying. The carpet 00:20:27.809 --> 00:20:30.670 smelled of mildew and old smoke. It was not a 00:20:30.670 --> 00:20:33.730 glamorous place anymore. And Room 100 became 00:20:33.730 --> 00:20:36.609 a full -on drug den. Dealers coming in and out 00:20:36.609 --> 00:20:39.329 at all hours. Nancy was trying to book gigs for 00:20:39.329 --> 00:20:41.910 Sid at places like Max's Kansas City, but he 00:20:41.910 --> 00:20:44.130 was just a total mess. I have to ask about the 00:20:44.130 --> 00:20:46.740 My Way cover. Because that's his other big legacy 00:20:46.740 --> 00:20:48.619 moment, isn't it? The one thing he did on his 00:20:48.619 --> 00:20:50.640 own. It was recorded for the great rock and roll 00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:54.200 Swindle movie. And it is, in my opinion, a masterpiece 00:20:54.200 --> 00:20:57.359 of nihilism. He takes this Frank Sinatra anthem 00:20:57.359 --> 00:20:59.799 of self -assurance and personal triumph and turns 00:20:59.799 --> 00:21:03.240 it into a violent, sneering joke. In the video, 00:21:03.299 --> 00:21:05.059 he pulls out a handgun and shoots the audience. 00:21:05.480 --> 00:21:09.269 It just sums up his entire philosophy. Burn it 00:21:09.269 --> 00:21:11.910 all down. But back at the Chelsea, reality is 00:21:11.910 --> 00:21:13.509 setting in. They're running out of money. They're 00:21:13.509 --> 00:21:15.849 calling Nancy's parents in Pennsylvania, begging 00:21:15.849 --> 00:21:18.269 for cash. Nancy is telling people she has kidney 00:21:18.269 --> 00:21:20.289 failure just to get sympathy money. They were 00:21:20.289 --> 00:21:22.930 drowning. And then we get to October 11th, 1978, 00:21:23.329 --> 00:21:25.450 the last night of Nancy's life. Walk us through 00:21:25.450 --> 00:21:27.190 it. What do we know? There was a small party 00:21:27.190 --> 00:21:29.869 in room 100, a few friends, a few dealers coming 00:21:29.869 --> 00:21:32.650 and going. Sid took a massive amount of 2 -in 00:21:32.650 --> 00:21:34.940 -1. Can you explain Tuna for a second? It's not 00:21:34.940 --> 00:21:37.140 a drug we hear about much anymore. It's a barbiturate, 00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:39.680 a heavy downer. It was known on the street as 00:21:39.680 --> 00:21:41.839 a rainbow because the capsule was half blue, 00:21:41.859 --> 00:21:45.059 half orange. It is a very, very heavy sedative. 00:21:45.059 --> 00:21:48.599 It basically just shuts your brain off. And Sid 00:21:48.599 --> 00:21:51.579 took about 30 of them. 30. One or two would put 00:21:51.579 --> 00:21:54.000 a normal person to sleep. 30 should stop your 00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:56.700 heart. It knocked him out cold. He was completely 00:21:56.700 --> 00:21:59.519 comatose on the bed for hours. And sometime during 00:21:59.519 --> 00:22:01.859 the early morning hours of October 12th, Nancy 00:22:01.859 --> 00:22:04.740 Spungen was stabbed in the bathroom. A single 00:22:04.740 --> 00:22:07.559 stab wound. One wound to the abdomen. She bled 00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:09.859 to death on the bathroom floor. The knife was 00:22:09.859 --> 00:22:13.220 identified as a Jaguar K -11 hunting knife. And 00:22:13.220 --> 00:22:15.819 Nancy had actually bought it for Sid a few days 00:22:15.819 --> 00:22:18.920 prior on 42nd Street. So this is the central 00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:21.500 mystery. Sid wakes up the next morning, finds 00:22:21.500 --> 00:22:24.559 her body, and calls the front desk. The police 00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:27.960 arrive. What does he tell them? He was hysterical 00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:30.839 and still heavily drugged. His statements were 00:22:30.839 --> 00:22:33.299 all over the map. First, he apparently confessed, 00:22:33.380 --> 00:22:35.259 saying something like, I killed her because I'm 00:22:35.259 --> 00:22:38.240 a dirty dog. Then he recanted and said, I never 00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:40.980 meant to hurt her. Then he tried to claim, she 00:22:40.980 --> 00:22:43.339 must have fallen on the knife. And finally he 00:22:43.339 --> 00:22:46.339 just settled on, I don't remember. And honestly, 00:22:46.480 --> 00:22:49.200 if you've taken 30 tunels, I don't remember is 00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:50.960 probably the most truthful statement of the bunch. 00:22:51.079 --> 00:22:53.880 That's the core of the defense's argument. How 00:22:53.880 --> 00:22:56.440 could a man who is completely comatose stand 00:22:56.440 --> 00:22:58.779 up, get a knife, stab someone with precision, 00:22:58.920 --> 00:23:01.019 and then pass out again without a single memory 00:23:01.019 --> 00:23:03.680 of it? So what are the other theories? Because 00:23:03.680 --> 00:23:07.140 Malcolm McLaren swore up and down that Sid was 00:23:07.140 --> 00:23:09.720 innocent. McLaren's theory, and it does have 00:23:09.720 --> 00:23:12.299 its supporters, is the robbery theory. There 00:23:12.299 --> 00:23:14.019 was a lot of cash in that room earlier in the 00:23:14.019 --> 00:23:16.579 night. Sid had just been paid for a gig at Max's. 00:23:16.740 --> 00:23:18.740 When the police arrived, the money was gone. 00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:21.900 So a dealer or some other thief comes in. Finds. 00:23:21.980 --> 00:23:24.819 Sid passed out on the bed. Nancy is in the bathroom. 00:23:24.980 --> 00:23:26.779 She catches them stealing the money. They stab 00:23:26.779 --> 00:23:29.900 her and run. It's a plausible scenario. Are there 00:23:29.900 --> 00:23:32.759 any specific names attached to this theory? Any 00:23:32.759 --> 00:23:35.259 suspects? The most prominent name that always 00:23:35.259 --> 00:23:38.059 comes up is a guy named Rockets Redglare. He 00:23:38.059 --> 00:23:40.579 was a Lower East Side character, a drug dealer, 00:23:40.779 --> 00:23:43.200 a part -time actor. You might have seen him in 00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:45.619 the movie Big. He was at the apartment that night. 00:23:45.779 --> 00:23:48.480 He was the one who supplied the tunnels. Some 00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:50.359 people claim he admitted to the murder years 00:23:50.359 --> 00:23:53.059 later on his deathbed, but it's all hearsay. 00:23:53.819 --> 00:23:56.339 There was also another guy named Neon Leon who 00:23:56.339 --> 00:23:58.460 lived down the hall and was found with some acid 00:23:58.460 --> 00:24:01.430 leather gear later on. But the police didn't 00:24:01.430 --> 00:24:03.670 really investigate these other people. Not seriously. 00:24:03.670 --> 00:24:05.569 They had the boyfriend, they had the murder weapon 00:24:05.569 --> 00:24:07.509 that belonged to him, and they had a confession. 00:24:07.730 --> 00:24:10.390 However shaky, for them, it was case closed. 00:24:10.710 --> 00:24:13.029 So Sid gets arrested. He's charged with second 00:24:13.029 --> 00:24:16.569 -degree murder. But somehow he makes bail. Virgin 00:24:16.569 --> 00:24:18.650 Records, Richard Branson's company, put up the 00:24:18.650 --> 00:24:22.210 money. $50 ,000. They got him out. But Sid was 00:24:22.210 --> 00:24:25.690 just... He was completely broken. And this is 00:24:25.690 --> 00:24:27.849 where the story just becomes a slow -motion car 00:24:27.849 --> 00:24:30.269 crash. He's out on bail for killing the woman 00:24:30.269 --> 00:24:32.549 he loved, and he immediately tries to join her. 00:24:32.730 --> 00:24:35.609 He tried to commit suicide just days later. He 00:24:35.609 --> 00:24:37.829 smashed a light bulb in his hotel room and used 00:24:37.829 --> 00:24:41.049 the jagged glass to slash his arms. He was rushed 00:24:41.049 --> 00:24:43.710 to Bellevue Hospital, the psychiatric wing. And 00:24:43.710 --> 00:24:45.789 even after that, he wasn't done with the violence? 00:24:46.130 --> 00:24:48.730 No. Once he healed up, he was back out in the 00:24:48.730 --> 00:24:51.630 clubs. In December, he was at a club called Hurrah. 00:24:52.279 --> 00:24:54.839 He gets into an altercation with Todd Smith. 00:24:55.039 --> 00:24:57.839 That's Patti Smith's brother. Apparently, Sid 00:24:57.839 --> 00:25:00.319 was flirting with Todd's girlfriend. Todd told 00:25:00.319 --> 00:25:03.500 him to stop. And Sid smashed a bottle and jammed 00:25:03.500 --> 00:25:05.579 it into Todd's face. Well, he's out on bail for 00:25:05.579 --> 00:25:08.099 murder. It's just unbelievable. It's pathological 00:25:08.099 --> 00:25:10.539 self -destruction. The judge, understandably, 00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:12.839 revoked his bail. He was sent to Rikers Island. 00:25:13.039 --> 00:25:15.599 And Rikers is a notoriously tough place. Yeah. 00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:17.859 Especially for a skinny British punk rocker. 00:25:18.059 --> 00:25:20.200 It was hell for him. But in a strange way, it 00:25:20.200 --> 00:25:22.160 also saved his life, at least for a little while. 00:25:22.339 --> 00:25:25.319 He was forced to detox. No heroin, no alcohol. 00:25:25.539 --> 00:25:27.700 He spent about seven weeks there. And when he 00:25:27.700 --> 00:25:30.920 came out on February 1st, 1979, he was clean. 00:25:31.099 --> 00:25:33.099 He had gained weight. He actually looked healthy 00:25:33.099 --> 00:25:35.960 for the first time in years. February 1st, the 00:25:35.960 --> 00:25:38.900 day before he dies. His bail was reinstated. 00:25:38.940 --> 00:25:41.880 He was released from Rikers. His mother, Ann, 00:25:42.140 --> 00:25:44.670 was in New York by then to look after him. And 00:25:44.670 --> 00:25:46.809 his new girlfriend, an actress named Michelle 00:25:46.809 --> 00:25:49.910 Robinson, hosted a small gathering at her apartment 00:25:49.910 --> 00:25:52.089 on Bank Street in Greenwich Village to celebrate 00:25:52.089 --> 00:25:56.150 his release. But the very first thing Sid wanted 00:25:56.150 --> 00:25:59.190 when he got there was heroin. After being clean 00:25:59.190 --> 00:26:02.109 for almost two months, his tolerance would be 00:26:02.109 --> 00:26:05.349 at zero. Exactly. And this is the danger zone 00:26:05.349 --> 00:26:07.750 for every single addict. A dose that would have 00:26:07.750 --> 00:26:10.869 just gotten him high before is now lethal. He 00:26:10.869 --> 00:26:13.319 asked a friend... a photographer named Peter 00:26:13.319 --> 00:26:16.240 Gravel, to go score for him. Gravel brought back 00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:19.720 some heroin. And his mother. And Beverly. She's 00:26:19.720 --> 00:26:21.599 there at the party. Does she try to stop him? 00:26:21.799 --> 00:26:23.680 This is the most chilling part of the entire 00:26:23.680 --> 00:26:26.240 story for me. She didn't stop him. Some accounts 00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:28.160 even say she helped him administer it later in 00:26:28.160 --> 00:26:30.019 the night when he wanted more. She told people 00:26:30.019 --> 00:26:32.200 at the party, oh, he's fine. He knows what he's 00:26:32.200 --> 00:26:34.279 doing. That's not just negligence. That's monstrous. 00:26:34.680 --> 00:26:37.119 It is. So Sid took a hit. He nodded off on the 00:26:37.119 --> 00:26:38.500 couch. Everyone just thought he was sleeping 00:26:38.500 --> 00:26:41.180 it off. Michelle Robinson and his mother, Ann, 00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:43.339 eventually went to bed. And the next morning? 00:26:43.519 --> 00:26:46.099 The next morning, February 2nd, Ann went to wake 00:26:46.099 --> 00:26:48.839 him up. He was cold. He had overdosed in his 00:26:48.839 --> 00:26:52.019 sleep. He was dead at 21. Just four months after 00:26:52.019 --> 00:26:54.880 Nancy. Gone. Both of them. There's this story 00:26:54.880 --> 00:26:59.400 about a suicide note. A death pact. Yes. Ann 00:26:59.400 --> 00:27:01.519 Beverly produced a piece of paper a few days 00:27:01.519 --> 00:27:04.019 after his death. She claimed she found it in 00:27:04.019 --> 00:27:06.900 the pocket of his leather jacket. It read, we 00:27:06.900 --> 00:27:09.119 had a death pact and I have to keep my half of 00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:11.579 the bargain. Please bury me next to my baby. 00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:14.140 Bury me in my leather jacket, jeans and motorcycle 00:27:14.140 --> 00:27:17.519 boots. Goodbye. That sounds very cinematic. Do 00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:19.779 you buy it? Is it real? I'm deeply skeptical. 00:27:19.880 --> 00:27:22.440 It just sounds a little too perfect, doesn't 00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:25.000 it? A bit too Hollywood ending. Anne Beverly 00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:26.960 had a vested interest in making this look like 00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:29.460 a romantic tragedy rather than what it probably 00:27:29.460 --> 00:27:33.319 was. A gritty, sad, accidental overdose. If it 00:27:33.319 --> 00:27:35.720 was a suicide pact, it's Romeo and Juliet. If 00:27:35.720 --> 00:27:37.759 it's just an overdose, he's just another junkie 00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:40.059 who died on an apartment floor. And he didn't 00:27:40.059 --> 00:27:42.140 get his wish. He wasn't buried next to Nancy. 00:27:42.359 --> 00:27:45.009 No. Nancy was Jewish. She was buried in a Jewish 00:27:45.009 --> 00:27:47.930 cemetery in Pennsylvania. Her family wanted absolutely 00:27:47.930 --> 00:27:50.589 nothing to do with Sid. They blamed him, correctly 00:27:50.589 --> 00:27:54.450 or not, for her death. So Sid was cremated. But 00:27:54.450 --> 00:27:56.150 there's a legend about the ashes, isn't there? 00:27:56.329 --> 00:27:58.509 The legend says that Ann Beverly traveled to 00:27:58.509 --> 00:28:00.769 Pennsylvania, found the cemetery, and secretly 00:28:00.769 --> 00:28:03.950 scattered Sid's ashes over Nancy's grave in the 00:28:03.950 --> 00:28:06.750 middle of the night. So they were reunited in 00:28:06.750 --> 00:28:09.430 death against the family's wishes. So even his 00:28:09.430 --> 00:28:11.410 funeral arrangements ended up being an act of 00:28:11.410 --> 00:28:13.849 trespassing. It fits the story perfectly, doesn't 00:28:13.849 --> 00:28:15.970 it? I want to end on a slightly lighter note, 00:28:16.069 --> 00:28:18.029 if that's even possible with this story, before 00:28:18.029 --> 00:28:20.549 we wrap up. There's an anecdote involving Freddie 00:28:20.549 --> 00:28:22.769 Mercury that I think just perfectly encapsulates 00:28:22.769 --> 00:28:25.269 who Sid really was. Oh, this is a classic. It's 00:28:25.269 --> 00:28:29.069 1977. Queen and the Sex Pistols are both recording 00:28:29.069 --> 00:28:31.269 in the same studio complex. Wessex Studios in 00:28:31.269 --> 00:28:34.029 London. Queen is in one room recording News of 00:28:34.029 --> 00:28:36.509 the World. The pistols are in another recording 00:28:36.509 --> 00:28:38.710 bollocks. Two completely different universes 00:28:38.710 --> 00:28:43.529 colliding. Totally. So Sid, drunk, wanders into 00:28:43.529 --> 00:28:45.650 the control room where Freddie Mercury is sitting 00:28:45.650 --> 00:28:49.170 at the piano. And Sid sneers in his best punk 00:28:49.170 --> 00:28:52.450 voice and says, Oi, Freddie, have you succeeded 00:28:52.450 --> 00:28:55.339 in bringing ballet to the masses yet? He was 00:28:55.339 --> 00:28:57.599 mocking a quote Freddie had given in an interview. 00:28:57.779 --> 00:28:59.259 Just trying to be the tough guy, trying to get 00:28:59.259 --> 00:29:01.940 a rise out of him. And Freddie, who was much 00:29:01.940 --> 00:29:04.259 stronger than he looked, just stood up very calmly. 00:29:04.880 --> 00:29:08.180 He looked at Sid and said, Ah, Simon Ferocious. 00:29:08.220 --> 00:29:11.339 He deliberately got the name wrong. Simon Ferocious. 00:29:11.420 --> 00:29:14.240 And then he grabbed Sid by the lapels of his 00:29:14.240 --> 00:29:16.700 leather jacket and physically marched him out 00:29:16.700 --> 00:29:18.980 of the room like he was a naughty schoolboy. 00:29:19.119 --> 00:29:21.460 Simon Ferocious. I love that. And Sid was apparently 00:29:21.460 --> 00:29:23.359 terrified. He didn't know what to do. It just 00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:25.339 shows that when he was confronted by a real personality, 00:29:25.599 --> 00:29:28.099 by real talent and confidence, his whole act 00:29:28.099 --> 00:29:30.259 just crumbled into nothing. But that is the perfect 00:29:30.259 --> 00:29:32.680 summary of his entire life, really. Yeah. A lost 00:29:32.680 --> 00:29:35.359 boy in a costume. Exactly. So we've looked at 00:29:35.359 --> 00:29:37.400 the mom, the hamster, the music, the murder. 00:29:37.519 --> 00:29:39.839 When you step back from all of it, what is the 00:29:39.839 --> 00:29:42.440 takeaway? Why do we still care about Sid Vicious 00:29:42.440 --> 00:29:45.279 40 plus years later? I think we care because 00:29:45.279 --> 00:29:47.660 he represents the ultimate limit of rock and 00:29:47.660 --> 00:29:50.000 roll. He is what happens when you take the live 00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:52.680 fast, die young slogan to its most literal, ugly 00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:55.440 conclusion. He was a creation. He was a suit 00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:57.400 of armor that Simon Ritchie put on to survive 00:29:57.400 --> 00:29:59.740 his childhood. But in the end, the armor just 00:29:59.740 --> 00:30:01.880 ended up crushing him. He was the face of punk. 00:30:02.539 --> 00:30:05.220 But he was also its first and most famous casualty. 00:30:05.259 --> 00:30:07.819 He was the sacrificial lamb for the whole movement. 00:30:08.059 --> 00:30:10.480 And the mystery of Nancy's death. It will never 00:30:10.480 --> 00:30:14.299 be solved. Legally, the case died with him. Was 00:30:14.299 --> 00:30:17.119 it a drug -fueled murder? Was it a botched suicide 00:30:17.119 --> 00:30:20.180 pact? Was it a robbery gone wrong? We will simply 00:30:20.180 --> 00:30:22.880 never know. But the lifestyle they lived guaranteed 00:30:22.880 --> 00:30:24.900 that one or both of them wasn't making it out 00:30:24.900 --> 00:30:27.579 of that room alive. So here's a final provocative 00:30:27.579 --> 00:30:30.420 thought for you to chew on. If Sid hadn't died 00:30:30.420 --> 00:30:32.950 that night, Let's just say he survived the overdose. 00:30:33.089 --> 00:30:35.450 He goes to rehab. He eventually does his time 00:30:35.450 --> 00:30:38.470 for the Todd Smith assault. What does a 40 -year 00:30:38.470 --> 00:30:40.789 -old Sid Vicious look like? Does he become a 00:30:40.789 --> 00:30:43.710 reality TV star like Ozzy? Does he work at a 00:30:43.710 --> 00:30:46.750 gas station? Or does he just fade away? It's 00:30:46.750 --> 00:30:49.289 so hard to imagine, isn't it? He was so perfectly 00:30:49.289 --> 00:30:52.829 designed for destruction. I'm not sure the person, 00:30:52.930 --> 00:30:55.369 Simon Ritchie, could have ever survived the character 00:30:55.369 --> 00:30:57.950 Sid Vicious. I think one of them had to go. That 00:30:57.950 --> 00:31:00.309 is a haunting thought. Simon Ritchie couldn't 00:31:00.309 --> 00:31:03.049 survive Sid Vicious. No, I don't think he could. 00:31:03.309 --> 00:31:05.269 We're going to leave it there. If you want to 00:31:05.269 --> 00:31:07.369 understand the chaos, go listen to Nevermind 00:31:07.369 --> 00:31:09.630 the Bollocks. But when you hear that roaring 00:31:09.630 --> 00:31:12.809 sound, just remember, the bass player on the 00:31:12.809 --> 00:31:15.069 album is the guitarist, and the guy on the t 00:31:15.069 --> 00:31:18.529 -shirt is a ghost. Thanks for diving deep with 00:31:18.529 --> 00:31:18.690 us.