WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.980 Welcome back to the Deep Dive. It is Saturday, 00:00:02.140 --> 00:00:06.700 January 24th, 2026. Today, we are opening a file 00:00:06.700 --> 00:00:09.869 that... I think for a huge chunk of the population 00:00:09.869 --> 00:00:13.830 is mentally filed away under a COVID fever dream. 00:00:13.990 --> 00:00:15.869 That's the perfect way to put it. It feels linked 00:00:15.869 --> 00:00:19.250 to that very specific time, you know, sourdough 00:00:19.250 --> 00:00:21.390 starters, wiping down your groceries. Exactly. 00:00:21.390 --> 00:00:24.250 And this story was this cultural moment in early 00:00:24.250 --> 00:00:26.469 2020 where the whole world just stopped. We were 00:00:26.469 --> 00:00:30.070 all inside and we all collectively watched this, 00:00:30.109 --> 00:00:33.850 this mullet wearing zookeeper completely unraveled 00:00:33.850 --> 00:00:36.030 on Netflix. It was a genuine phenomenon. It almost 00:00:36.030 --> 00:00:37.750 feels like something we all. hallucinated together. 00:00:37.929 --> 00:00:40.210 It does. We are, of course, talking about Joseph 00:00:40.210 --> 00:00:42.649 Alan Maldonado, who was born Joseph Schreibvogel. 00:00:42.689 --> 00:00:44.850 But, you know, the entire planet knows him as 00:00:44.850 --> 00:00:46.990 Joe Exotic. And I think the temptation here, 00:00:47.090 --> 00:00:49.729 what, six years on, is to just remember the memes, 00:00:49.909 --> 00:00:52.909 you know, the Girl Baskin song, the tiger print, 00:00:52.990 --> 00:00:54.929 everything, the jokes. Right, to treat it as 00:00:54.929 --> 00:00:57.189 a caricature. But the sources we have laid out 00:00:57.189 --> 00:00:59.990 here today, they tell a much, much darker and 00:00:59.990 --> 00:01:03.000 honestly more complicated story. And that's really 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:05.180 the mission of this deep dive, isn't it? To go 00:01:05.180 --> 00:01:08.280 past that caricature. When you look at the actual 00:01:08.280 --> 00:01:11.980 factual biography from like the 1980s all the 00:01:11.980 --> 00:01:14.180 way to right now, where he's sitting in a federal 00:01:14.180 --> 00:01:17.299 medical center, it's not a comedy. No, not at 00:01:17.299 --> 00:01:19.599 all. It's really a study in escalation. It's 00:01:19.599 --> 00:01:22.540 a story about how a fascination with animals, 00:01:22.799 --> 00:01:24.379 which might have even started out genuinely, 00:01:24.620 --> 00:01:27.920 got corrupted by this desperate, all consuming 00:01:27.920 --> 00:01:30.980 need for fame. And how that spiraled into, you 00:01:30.980 --> 00:01:33.900 know, a murder for hire plot and a 21 year prison 00:01:33.900 --> 00:01:35.900 sentence. And we're going to cover the parts 00:01:35.900 --> 00:01:38.640 that the documentary either glossed over or that 00:01:38.640 --> 00:01:40.239 just hadn't even happened yet. I mean, we're 00:01:40.239 --> 00:01:42.120 talking about his time as a police chief. Which 00:01:42.120 --> 00:01:44.180 is a real thing that actually happened. A real 00:01:44.180 --> 00:01:46.359 thing. His political campaigns that ran all the 00:01:46.359 --> 00:01:50.000 way into 2024 from a prison. cell and his life 00:01:50.000 --> 00:01:52.400 right now, because the story did not end when 00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:54.560 those credits rolled. No. In fact, you could 00:01:54.560 --> 00:01:57.120 argue the post -conviction era these last five 00:01:57.120 --> 00:02:00.140 or six years are just as bizarre and just as 00:02:00.140 --> 00:02:03.159 revealing as the tiger years. It's the aftermath. 00:02:03.319 --> 00:02:07.159 It's the crash. So let's rewind way, way back 00:02:07.159 --> 00:02:09.780 before the bleach, before the mullet, before 00:02:09.780 --> 00:02:12.689 any of it. We're in Garden City, Kansas, 1963. 00:02:13.469 --> 00:02:15.490 That's where Joseph Schrembogel's life begins. 00:02:15.930 --> 00:02:18.169 But I want to jump ahead to the detail in his 00:02:18.169 --> 00:02:20.250 background that just stopped me in my tracks. 00:02:20.409 --> 00:02:24.189 The early 1980s, Joe Exotic was a cop. It sounds 00:02:24.189 --> 00:02:26.469 like fiction, doesn't it? But it's there. It's 00:02:26.469 --> 00:02:29.030 in the public record. After his family moved 00:02:29.030 --> 00:02:31.310 down to Texas and he finished high school, Joe 00:02:31.310 --> 00:02:33.229 joined the police force in a town called East 00:02:33.229 --> 00:02:36.330 Vail, Texas. Okay, so... What kind of town are 00:02:36.330 --> 00:02:38.169 we talking about here? Oh, tiny. You have to 00:02:38.169 --> 00:02:40.169 understand, this was essentially a hamlet. It 00:02:40.169 --> 00:02:42.610 wasn't the Dallas PD or anything. But he was, 00:02:42.830 --> 00:02:46.090 in 1982, the chief of police. He wore a badge. 00:02:46.250 --> 00:02:48.770 He was the law. It's just such a stark contrast 00:02:48.770 --> 00:02:52.090 to the whole outlaw, anti -establishment persona 00:02:52.090 --> 00:02:54.889 he built later on. Completely. But this period 00:02:54.889 --> 00:02:56.849 of his life, it ends with an incident that I 00:02:56.849 --> 00:02:58.710 think is sort of the Rosetta Stone for his entire 00:02:58.710 --> 00:03:02.090 psychology. The bridge crash in 1985. This is 00:03:02.090 --> 00:03:05.370 the turning point. This is the pivot. In 85, 00:03:05.750 --> 00:03:08.849 he crashes his police cruiser into a concrete 00:03:08.849 --> 00:03:12.129 bridge embankment. It was a really serious wreck. 00:03:12.569 --> 00:03:15.590 But the why of it, well, that depends entirely 00:03:15.590 --> 00:03:18.050 on which version of Joe's story you're hearing 00:03:18.050 --> 00:03:19.909 at that moment. And that's the pattern, right? 00:03:20.030 --> 00:03:22.509 Joe rewriting his own history to fit whatever 00:03:22.509 --> 00:03:25.689 narrative suits him best. Constantly. So you 00:03:25.689 --> 00:03:27.270 have the later version, the one he told Texas 00:03:27.270 --> 00:03:30.430 Monthly in 2019. In that one, he frames it as 00:03:30.430 --> 00:03:33.129 this tragic, almost romanticized suicide attempt. 00:03:33.530 --> 00:03:36.069 Right. This is the story where his brother, Yari, 00:03:36.270 --> 00:03:39.169 outs him as gay to their parents. Exactly. And 00:03:39.169 --> 00:03:41.330 he claims his father gave him this cold handshake 00:03:41.330 --> 00:03:43.349 and said, you know, don't come to my funeral. 00:03:43.930 --> 00:03:47.379 And so Joe, in his despair. drives his car straight 00:03:47.379 --> 00:03:49.060 into the bridge and end the pain. Which is a 00:03:49.060 --> 00:03:51.819 very sympathetic story. It casts him as the victim, 00:03:51.919 --> 00:03:53.780 you know, a man pushed to the brink by a cruel, 00:03:53.900 --> 00:03:56.159 homophobic family. It creates a reason for the 00:03:56.159 --> 00:03:57.759 chip on his shoulder. It explains everything. 00:03:57.960 --> 00:03:59.900 But if you go back and look at the actual news 00:03:59.900 --> 00:04:03.500 reports from 1985 or what Joe himself was telling 00:04:03.500 --> 00:04:06.259 reporters in 1997, it's a completely different 00:04:06.259 --> 00:04:09.580 tale. So what was the 97 version? The 97 version 00:04:09.580 --> 00:04:12.259 was that it was a drug investigation gone bad. 00:04:12.580 --> 00:04:14.960 Ah, the action hero version. The action hero 00:04:14.960 --> 00:04:17.949 version. He said an unidentified car ran him 00:04:17.949 --> 00:04:19.829 off the road while he was deep undercover on 00:04:19.829 --> 00:04:22.949 a narcotics case. He was the hero cop taken out 00:04:22.949 --> 00:04:24.930 by the bad guys. So you have the tragic victim 00:04:24.930 --> 00:04:27.870 and the action hero. What do the facts say? Well, 00:04:27.930 --> 00:04:29.810 investigators from New York Magazine and other 00:04:29.810 --> 00:04:33.149 outlets, they dug into this. There were no witnesses 00:04:33.149 --> 00:04:36.209 to another car. There was no official record 00:04:36.209 --> 00:04:40.089 of any deep cover drug bust in this tiny little 00:04:40.089 --> 00:04:43.959 town. So the evidence points to. What? A simple 00:04:43.959 --> 00:04:45.939 accident? It points to a single car accident. 00:04:46.060 --> 00:04:49.220 Maybe he fell asleep. Maybe he just lost control. 00:04:49.480 --> 00:04:52.459 But for Joe, it can't just be a mistake. He has 00:04:52.459 --> 00:04:54.980 to build a mythology around the trauma. He has 00:04:54.980 --> 00:04:57.180 to be the main character. Accuracy is not the 00:04:57.180 --> 00:04:59.420 priority. The story is the priority. Precisely. 00:04:59.439 --> 00:05:02.639 Okay, so he survives this crash, leaves law enforcement, 00:05:02.740 --> 00:05:05.360 and he moves. West Palm Beach, Florida. And this 00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:07.079 is where the animals finally enter the picture. 00:05:07.360 --> 00:05:08.920 And it's interesting. It wasn't tigers at first? 00:05:09.480 --> 00:05:11.759 He's managing a pet store, and he has a neighbor. 00:05:11.860 --> 00:05:14.639 Just a neighbor. A neighbor who worked at a local 00:05:14.639 --> 00:05:18.019 drive -thru safari park. And this neighbor would 00:05:18.019 --> 00:05:20.920 bring home baby lions. You know, you have to 00:05:20.920 --> 00:05:23.100 remember, this is the mid-'80s. The regulations 00:05:23.100 --> 00:05:27.199 around exotic animals were looser. Much looser. 00:05:27.399 --> 00:05:30.360 So Joe holds a lion cub for the first time, and 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:32.540 he describes it like a switch being flipped, 00:05:32.660 --> 00:05:35.600 this feeling of power or connection with this 00:05:35.600 --> 00:05:38.779 tiny apex predator. He says that exact moment 00:05:38.779 --> 00:05:41.240 set the course for the rest of his life. So he 00:05:41.240 --> 00:05:43.319 takes that feeling, that spark, and he brings 00:05:43.319 --> 00:05:45.699 it back to Texas. He and his brother, Gerald 00:05:45.699 --> 00:05:48.399 Wayne GW, they open a pet shop together in Arlington. 00:05:48.500 --> 00:05:51.220 They do, in 1986. And we see another side of 00:05:51.220 --> 00:05:53.439 Joe here that becomes really crucial later, the 00:05:53.439 --> 00:05:55.639 combative activist. He was never quiet, was he? 00:05:55.959 --> 00:05:58.319 Never. I mean, he's hanging rainbow -striped 00:05:58.319 --> 00:06:01.019 gay pride flags in his shop window in Arlington, 00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:04.019 Texas in the mid -1980s. That was a very loud, 00:06:04.120 --> 00:06:06.360 very brave thing to do then and there. And when 00:06:06.360 --> 00:06:08.199 the city came after him for it? He didn't just 00:06:08.199 --> 00:06:10.180 quietly pay the fine for the sign violations. 00:06:10.279 --> 00:06:12.519 He went to the press. He called them out. He 00:06:12.519 --> 00:06:14.779 accused the city inspectors of being homophobic. 00:06:14.920 --> 00:06:17.399 So that me against the establishment energy that 00:06:17.399 --> 00:06:20.060 was there from the very beginning, he thrives 00:06:20.060 --> 00:06:23.399 on conflict. He absolutely does. But then... 00:06:23.639 --> 00:06:27.899 The real catalyst happens, 1997. His brother, 00:06:28.019 --> 00:06:30.959 Gerald, is killed in a car accident. This is 00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:33.860 the moment. This is where the Joe Exotic we all 00:06:33.860 --> 00:06:36.620 know really starts to take shape. It was devastating 00:06:36.620 --> 00:06:39.500 for him. And in his grief, he makes this huge 00:06:39.500 --> 00:06:42.399 life change. Sells the pet shop, takes the insurance 00:06:42.399 --> 00:06:45.579 money, and he buys 16 acres of land out in Oklahoma. 00:06:45.660 --> 00:06:47.639 He decides he's going to build a monument. The 00:06:47.639 --> 00:06:50.160 Gerald Wayne Exotic Animal Memorial Park. The 00:06:50.160 --> 00:06:52.860 GW Zoo. And, you know, to be fair, in the very 00:06:52.860 --> 00:06:54.839 beginning, it really seems like it was a sanctuary. 00:06:55.079 --> 00:06:57.339 The intentions were good, maybe? The first animals 00:06:57.339 --> 00:06:59.319 there were actually Gerald's own pets that he 00:06:59.319 --> 00:07:01.860 left behind. It was genuinely born out of loss, 00:07:01.939 --> 00:07:05.259 a desire to honor his brother. But... And this 00:07:05.259 --> 00:07:07.480 is the fatal flaw that drives the entire story. 00:07:08.339 --> 00:07:10.720 Sanctuaries are money pits. And zoos are businesses. 00:07:11.120 --> 00:07:13.839 And Joe is terrible with money. And that's where 00:07:13.839 --> 00:07:15.980 we get to what you could call the tiger math. 00:07:16.360 --> 00:07:18.779 Because I think people see the hundreds of tigers 00:07:18.779 --> 00:07:21.420 and they just think, wow, he loves tigers. They 00:07:21.420 --> 00:07:23.459 don't see the economic engine behind it. Right. 00:07:23.540 --> 00:07:26.300 So he gets his first two tigers in 2000. And 00:07:26.300 --> 00:07:29.879 then by 2002, he has this realization. He was 00:07:29.879 --> 00:07:31.800 working with a traveling magician for a while. 00:07:32.079 --> 00:07:34.300 And what he noticed was that, you know, people 00:07:34.300 --> 00:07:36.620 would clap for the magic tricks. But after the 00:07:36.620 --> 00:07:39.759 show, they would line up and empty their wallets 00:07:39.759 --> 00:07:42.360 for a chance to pet a tiger cub. And that's it. 00:07:42.759 --> 00:07:44.879 That's the discovery that seals his fate. It's 00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:48.180 the whole engine of the story. The business is 00:07:48.180 --> 00:07:50.699 cub petting. But there's a biological problem 00:07:50.699 --> 00:07:52.560 with that business model, isn't there? A huge 00:07:52.560 --> 00:07:54.839 one. It's like a Ponzi scheme, but with biology. 00:07:55.259 --> 00:07:57.579 You can only really use a tiger cub for public 00:07:57.579 --> 00:08:00.160 interaction for a very short window. What are 00:08:00.160 --> 00:08:02.220 we talking, a few weeks? Between about eight 00:08:02.220 --> 00:08:05.180 weeks and 12 weeks old. Before eight weeks, their 00:08:05.180 --> 00:08:07.740 immune systems are too fragile. After 12 weeks, 00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:09.500 they're too big, they're too strong. They'll 00:08:09.500 --> 00:08:11.399 bite a kid's finger off. So you've got a four 00:08:11.399 --> 00:08:14.560 -week window. A one -month revenue window per 00:08:14.560 --> 00:08:18.860 animal. Per tiger. So if your entire business 00:08:18.860 --> 00:08:22.379 is charging people 50, 100 bucks to hold a baby, 00:08:22.540 --> 00:08:25.800 you need a constant, never -ending assembly line 00:08:25.800 --> 00:08:27.819 of new babies. Which means you have to be breeding 00:08:27.819 --> 00:08:31.259 constantly, nonstop. Speed breeding. You pull 00:08:31.259 --> 00:08:32.779 the cubs from the mothers the second they're 00:08:32.779 --> 00:08:34.840 born, so the mothers go back into heat faster. 00:08:35.259 --> 00:08:38.059 But then, the goal comes due. Because the babies 00:08:38.059 --> 00:08:40.600 grow up. The babies grow up. And tigers live... 00:08:40.789 --> 00:08:42.830 for 20 years in captivity. So suddenly you're 00:08:42.830 --> 00:08:46.149 sitting on 200 adult tigers, each one costing, 00:08:46.210 --> 00:08:49.169 say, $10 ,000 a year just to feed. And they're 00:08:49.169 --> 00:08:51.149 generating zero revenue. You can't pet them. 00:08:51.470 --> 00:08:53.610 So this is why the population at the zoo exploded. 00:08:53.870 --> 00:08:55.649 He wasn't hoarding them because he loved them 00:08:55.649 --> 00:08:57.830 so much. He was hoarding them because they were 00:08:57.830 --> 00:09:00.190 the industrial waste product of his actual business. 00:09:00.429 --> 00:09:03.429 They were spent inventory. Exactly. And that 00:09:03.429 --> 00:09:05.750 crushing financial pressure. I mean, the sheer 00:09:05.750 --> 00:09:08.889 cost of feeding 200 giant predators, that's what 00:09:08.889 --> 00:09:11.470 leads to the horrific conditions that we read 00:09:11.470 --> 00:09:13.450 about in the federal investigation. Let's talk 00:09:13.450 --> 00:09:15.830 about those conditions. The Walmart diet. This 00:09:15.830 --> 00:09:18.529 detail really illustrates the scale of the problem. 00:09:18.750 --> 00:09:21.610 To feed that many cats, you need, I mean, literal 00:09:21.610 --> 00:09:24.950 truckloads of meat every single week. He couldn't 00:09:24.950 --> 00:09:27.730 afford good meat. So he made a deal with a local 00:09:27.730 --> 00:09:30.419 Walmart to take all their expired meat. And we're 00:09:30.419 --> 00:09:33.039 not talking like a day past the sell -by date. 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:35.960 No. We're talking about meat that was turning 00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:40.440 green, styrofoam packaging, plastic wrap, all 00:09:40.440 --> 00:09:42.519 of it just shoveled into a truck and dumped at 00:09:42.519 --> 00:09:44.620 the zoo. And it wasn't just the tigers eating 00:09:44.620 --> 00:09:48.700 this stuff. No. This is where it gets truly dystopian. 00:09:48.820 --> 00:09:51.440 The staff, who were often these vulnerable people 00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:53.740 he'd recruit, you know, drifters, people fresh 00:09:53.740 --> 00:09:57.080 out of prison, he'd pay them maybe $150 a week. 00:09:57.259 --> 00:09:58.879 So they can't afford their own groceries. They 00:09:58.879 --> 00:10:01.000 can't. So they were eating the expired Walmart 00:10:01.000 --> 00:10:03.340 meat, too. And the allegation that it was even 00:10:03.340 --> 00:10:05.840 used in the pizza sold to visitors. That is the 00:10:05.840 --> 00:10:08.200 allegation, that the pepperoni on the pizza you 00:10:08.200 --> 00:10:11.100 bought at the GW Zoo concession stand might have 00:10:11.100 --> 00:10:14.360 been salvaged from that dumpster truck. That 00:10:14.360 --> 00:10:16.820 is just, it's horrifying. You've got this cult 00:10:16.820 --> 00:10:18.840 -like compound where the people are living in 00:10:18.840 --> 00:10:21.440 squalor, eating rotten food, all to serve the 00:10:21.440 --> 00:10:24.259 ego of this one guy. And when the Walmart meat 00:10:24.259 --> 00:10:27.019 wasn't enough, he moved on to what they call 00:10:27.019 --> 00:10:30.860 the horse solution. This is where any claim to 00:10:30.860 --> 00:10:33.340 being an animal lover just evaporates. It really 00:10:33.340 --> 00:10:36.080 does. He would put out ads, solicit donated horses. 00:10:36.419 --> 00:10:38.379 He'd tell people, oh, bring us your old horse. 00:10:38.440 --> 00:10:40.200 We'll give it a beautiful pasture to live out 00:10:40.200 --> 00:10:42.580 its final days. And the reality was? The reality 00:10:42.580 --> 00:10:44.379 was he would shoot the horse in the head the 00:10:44.379 --> 00:10:46.840 moment it got off the trailer and feed it whole 00:10:46.840 --> 00:10:50.100 to the tigers. It was just brutal pragmatism. 00:10:50.600 --> 00:10:53.480 He didn't see an animal. He saw a free thousand 00:10:53.480 --> 00:10:57.049 -pound package of meat. So you have this grim 00:10:57.049 --> 00:10:59.629 reality churning away in the background. But 00:10:59.629 --> 00:11:02.190 in the foreground, Joe is just desperate to be 00:11:02.190 --> 00:11:05.269 a star. He builds his own TV studio at the zoo. 00:11:05.409 --> 00:11:08.009 Joe Exotic TV. He was basically live streaming 00:11:08.009 --> 00:11:10.070 before that was even really a thing. He'd host 00:11:10.070 --> 00:11:12.509 this nightly show where he would just rant, mostly. 00:11:12.730 --> 00:11:14.490 Rant about the government, rant about animal 00:11:14.490 --> 00:11:16.230 rights people. And he wanted to be a country 00:11:16.230 --> 00:11:18.669 music star. The music videos. I saw a tiger. 00:11:19.049 --> 00:11:21.460 You're a kitty kitty. We have to ask. Did he 00:11:21.460 --> 00:11:24.139 actually sing those songs? No. They sounded too 00:11:24.139 --> 00:11:27.220 polished for that. They were very polished. Because 00:11:27.220 --> 00:11:30.700 this is another classic Joe Exotic move. He purchased 00:11:30.700 --> 00:11:34.100 a reality he couldn't earn. He hired professional 00:11:34.100 --> 00:11:36.659 musicians, the Clinton Johnson Band, to write 00:11:36.659 --> 00:11:38.940 and record the songs for him. So he would give 00:11:38.940 --> 00:11:41.500 them the idea, maybe? Yeah, he might hum a melody 00:11:41.500 --> 00:11:43.779 or give them a lyrical theme like Carole Baskin 00:11:43.779 --> 00:11:46.440 killed her husband. But the actual performance, 00:11:46.779 --> 00:11:49.879 the voice you hear on those tracks, it is not 00:11:49.879 --> 00:11:52.860 Joe Exotic. He's just lip syncing in the video. 00:11:53.019 --> 00:11:56.460 Just lip syncing. He wanted the fame of being 00:11:56.460 --> 00:12:00.000 a singer without having any of the talent. It's 00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:02.240 the same pattern as the bridge crash story. It's 00:12:02.240 --> 00:12:04.580 all a performance. It's a facade. And then he 00:12:04.580 --> 00:12:06.620 tries to attach himself to the biggest name in 00:12:06.620 --> 00:12:09.500 the animal world at the time, Steve Irwin. He 00:12:09.500 --> 00:12:11.960 claimed he knew Steve Irwin, that they talked 00:12:11.960 --> 00:12:14.600 on the phone. There's no proof of any real friendship. 00:12:14.679 --> 00:12:18.639 After Irwin died in 2006, Joe built a Steve Irwin 00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:21.519 Memorial alligator complex. Which then mysteriously 00:12:21.519 --> 00:12:24.279 burned to the ground in 2015. In a fire that 00:12:24.279 --> 00:12:26.539 was incredibly suspicious. It destroyed his TV 00:12:26.539 --> 00:12:29.159 studio, destroyed the alligator pit, and basically 00:12:29.159 --> 00:12:30.820 boiled the alligators alive in their enclosure. 00:12:31.059 --> 00:12:33.759 Horrific. Joe immediately blamed animal rights 00:12:33.759 --> 00:12:36.720 activists. But the sheriff, the investigators, 00:12:37.000 --> 00:12:39.259 they suspected it might have been an inside job. 00:12:39.539 --> 00:12:41.580 For insurance money. Either for the insurance 00:12:41.580 --> 00:12:45.769 money. or more likely to destroy incriminating 00:12:45.769 --> 00:12:47.690 video footage and records that were stored in 00:12:47.690 --> 00:12:50.450 that studio. The case is still officially unsolved. 00:12:50.590 --> 00:12:53.330 OK, so the zoo is this chaotic, financially disastrous, 00:12:53.590 --> 00:12:56.730 morally bankrupt operation. But that's not a 00:12:56.730 --> 00:12:59.330 big enough stage for Joe. He decides he needs 00:12:59.330 --> 00:13:01.809 to run the country. The political arc is something 00:13:01.809 --> 00:13:03.909 people forget the details of. They think it was 00:13:03.909 --> 00:13:06.269 all a joke. It was a joke to the rest of us, 00:13:06.289 --> 00:13:09.580 maybe. Not to him. Not to him at all. In 2016, 00:13:09.799 --> 00:13:12.080 he launches a campaign for president of the United 00:13:12.080 --> 00:13:15.340 States as an independent. And did he actually 00:13:15.340 --> 00:13:18.220 get any votes? He did. He managed to get his 00:13:18.220 --> 00:13:21.039 name on the ballot in Colorado. And nationwide, 00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:26.259 he received 962 votes. 962. I mean, it's a tiny 00:13:26.259 --> 00:13:28.379 number, but it's not zero. Almost 1 ,000 people 00:13:28.379 --> 00:13:30.639 voted for him. And it gave him mainstream attention. 00:13:30.940 --> 00:13:32.620 John Oliver featured him on Last Week Tonight. 00:13:32.960 --> 00:13:35.899 That's where Make America Exotic Again came from, 00:13:35.940 --> 00:13:38.960 right? Yeah, that was Oliver's joke, which Joe 00:13:38.960 --> 00:13:41.820 then immediately adopted as his own serious slogan. 00:13:42.039 --> 00:13:44.980 But he doesn't stop there. 2018, he runs for 00:13:44.980 --> 00:13:47.559 governor of Oklahoma. This time as a libertarian. 00:13:47.659 --> 00:13:50.029 Yeah. And he actually does surprisingly well 00:13:50.029 --> 00:13:52.470 in the primary. He finished last, sure, but he 00:13:52.470 --> 00:13:57.350 got 664 votes. That was 18 .7 % of the total 00:13:57.350 --> 00:14:00.269 vote. Almost one in five Libertarians in that 00:14:00.269 --> 00:14:03.389 primary voted for the Tiger King. It is shockingly 00:14:03.389 --> 00:14:06.490 high. And the actual Libertarian Party was horrified. 00:14:06.669 --> 00:14:08.789 They officially censured him during the campaign 00:14:08.789 --> 00:14:10.909 and then kicked him out of the party completely 00:14:10.909 --> 00:14:13.830 after his arrest. They realized he wasn't just 00:14:13.830 --> 00:14:16.289 some quirky activist. He was a genuine liability. 00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:19.059 But not even prison could stop the political 00:14:19.059 --> 00:14:22.799 ambitions. He ran again in 2024 from his cell. 00:14:23.000 --> 00:14:25.019 This time he filed to run for the Democratic 00:14:25.019 --> 00:14:27.179 nomination. It was, you know, clearly a publicity 00:14:27.179 --> 00:14:28.879 stunt to try and get attention for a pardon. 00:14:28.980 --> 00:14:31.679 But the details are just wild. Like his choice 00:14:31.679 --> 00:14:34.639 for vice president. In 2022, he floated the idea 00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:37.000 of Andrew Tate as his running mate. Andrew Tate, 00:14:37.039 --> 00:14:40.039 the controversial social media influencer. Yeah, 00:14:40.139 --> 00:14:42.850 the very same. And it just shows you how Joe's 00:14:42.850 --> 00:14:45.629 mind works. It makes zero political sense. Joe 00:14:45.629 --> 00:14:47.809 is an openly gay man. Tate has been accused of 00:14:47.809 --> 00:14:50.470 rampant misogyny. But it makes perfect viral 00:14:50.470 --> 00:14:53.250 sense. Joe operates in the economy of attention. 00:14:53.809 --> 00:14:56.610 Policy is irrelevant. And to top it all off, 00:14:56.710 --> 00:14:59.289 in 2025, he endorsed the prime minister of Australia. 00:14:59.590 --> 00:15:02.470 Anthony Albanese. Yes, from his cell in Fort 00:15:02.470 --> 00:15:05.090 Worth, Texas. It's like he just needs to feel 00:15:05.090 --> 00:15:07.529 like he's part of the global conversation. It's 00:15:07.529 --> 00:15:09.289 a way to mentally break out of the prison walls. 00:15:09.690 --> 00:15:11.490 Which brings us to the conflict that actually 00:15:11.490 --> 00:15:13.889 put him behind those walls, the central drama, 00:15:14.070 --> 00:15:17.450 Joe versus Carole Baskin. The nemesis. Now, the 00:15:17.450 --> 00:15:20.250 show framed this as this big personality clash, 00:15:20.529 --> 00:15:22.850 the Hatfields and McCoys of the big cat world. 00:15:23.169 --> 00:15:25.149 But when you look at the sources, it was really 00:15:25.149 --> 00:15:27.429 a clash of business model. Oh, absolutely. That 00:15:27.429 --> 00:15:29.889 is the entire root of the feud. Carole Baskin's 00:15:29.889 --> 00:15:32.370 organization, Big Cat Rescue, their whole mission 00:15:32.370 --> 00:15:34.909 was to ends the private ownership of big cats. 00:15:35.049 --> 00:15:37.809 And her main target was cub petting. Specifically, 00:15:38.009 --> 00:15:41.809 the mall tours. The mall tours? She organized 00:15:41.809 --> 00:15:45.029 these massive email campaigns to mall managers 00:15:45.029 --> 00:15:48.090 all over the country saying, do not let Joe Exotic 00:15:48.090 --> 00:15:51.029 bring his tiger cubs here. This is animal abuse. 00:15:51.389 --> 00:15:53.929 She was going right for his wallet, cutting off 00:15:53.929 --> 00:15:56.690 his main source of cash flow. Precisely. If he 00:15:56.690 --> 00:15:59.190 can't tour the malls, he can't make money. If 00:15:59.190 --> 00:16:01.830 he can't make money, he can't feed the 200 tigers 00:16:01.830 --> 00:16:04.919 back at the zoo. He saw her as an existential 00:16:04.919 --> 00:16:07.259 threat. And being Joe, he didn't respond with, 00:16:07.259 --> 00:16:10.279 you know, a reasoned debate. No. He responded 00:16:10.279 --> 00:16:13.100 with a campaign of relentless, vicious harassment. 00:16:14.100 --> 00:16:17.200 Reading her stolen diary on his web show, flying 00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:20.340 a helicopter over her property, and most famously, 00:16:20.480 --> 00:16:22.460 weaponizing the disappearance of her husband, 00:16:22.620 --> 00:16:25.370 Don Lewis. Turning a missing person's case into 00:16:25.370 --> 00:16:27.710 a marketing tool. He made music videos accusing 00:16:27.710 --> 00:16:30.269 her of feeding him to her tigers. Yeah. Offered 00:16:30.269 --> 00:16:32.809 a reward for information. It was obsessive. But 00:16:32.809 --> 00:16:34.789 his fatal mistake, the thing that actually brought 00:16:34.789 --> 00:16:37.470 him down legally, wasn't the harassment. It was 00:16:37.470 --> 00:16:39.769 the trademark infringement. The Big Cat Rescue 00:16:39.769 --> 00:16:42.370 entertainment debacle. This was his biggest error. 00:16:42.529 --> 00:16:45.769 In 2011, he rebranded his whole traveling show 00:16:45.769 --> 00:16:48.809 to use her name, Big Cat Rescue, and a Florida 00:16:48.809 --> 00:16:50.889 phone number. He was trying to trick people into 00:16:50.889 --> 00:16:53.840 booking him. Which is just a slam dunk lawsuit. 00:16:54.039 --> 00:16:57.820 She sued and she won a million dollar judgment. 00:16:57.899 --> 00:17:00.399 And Joe did not have a million dollars. So that 00:17:00.399 --> 00:17:03.179 triggers the bankruptcy and then the fraud where 00:17:03.179 --> 00:17:05.759 he transfers the zoo's assets into his mother's 00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:08.619 name to hide them from Carol. He was completely 00:17:08.619 --> 00:17:11.660 cornered financially. And a cornered Joe exotic 00:17:11.660 --> 00:17:14.920 is a very dangerous Joe exotic. And that desperation 00:17:14.920 --> 00:17:17.529 leads directly to the murder for hire plot. By 00:17:17.529 --> 00:17:19.829 2017, he's at the end of his rope. He's been 00:17:19.829 --> 00:17:21.930 talking about wanting her dead for years. But 00:17:21.930 --> 00:17:24.750 now. Now he puts money on the table. He offers 00:17:24.750 --> 00:17:27.650 cash to an employee named Alan Glover and then 00:17:27.650 --> 00:17:30.170 unbelievably discusses the whole plan with a 00:17:30.170 --> 00:17:32.329 man who turns out to be an undercover FBI agent. 00:17:32.430 --> 00:17:34.869 The sloppiness is just astounding. But I want 00:17:34.869 --> 00:17:36.529 to focus on the other charges for a second. The 00:17:36.529 --> 00:17:38.569 ones that get overshadowed by the whole hitman 00:17:38.569 --> 00:17:42.160 plot, the animal crimes. The Lacey Act and Endangered 00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:44.900 Species Act violations. Yes. These are really 00:17:44.900 --> 00:17:47.420 important because they cut through the animal 00:17:47.420 --> 00:17:50.480 lover persona. He was convicted specifically 00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:53.799 for killing five tigers. He shot them. Shot them 00:17:53.799 --> 00:17:55.960 in the head with a pistol to make more cage space. 00:17:56.319 --> 00:17:58.599 And in the court documents, he referred to them 00:17:58.599 --> 00:18:02.220 as generic tigers. What does that even mean? 00:18:02.539 --> 00:18:04.299 It's a term they use in the captive breeding 00:18:04.299 --> 00:18:08.599 world. A generic tiger is basically a mutt. It's 00:18:08.599 --> 00:18:10.700 a crossbreed between different subspecies like 00:18:10.700 --> 00:18:12.819 a Siberian tiger crossed with a Bengal tiger. 00:18:12.980 --> 00:18:15.960 So they have no conservation value? Zero. You 00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:18.220 can't release them into the wild. You can't use 00:18:18.220 --> 00:18:20.799 them in a legitimate species survival plan at 00:18:20.799 --> 00:18:24.150 a real AZA accredited zoo. To science, they're 00:18:24.150 --> 00:18:26.490 worthless. And to Joe, they were just inventory. 00:18:26.849 --> 00:18:28.450 They were adult inventory that couldn't be used 00:18:28.450 --> 00:18:30.390 for petting anymore. They were just big, expensive 00:18:30.390 --> 00:18:32.829 mouths to feed. So you dispose of them like you'd 00:18:32.829 --> 00:18:34.609 get rid of a broken piece of equipment. That's 00:18:34.609 --> 00:18:37.750 chilling. So the trial happens in 2019. The jury 00:18:37.750 --> 00:18:40.009 hears about the hitman plot. They hear about 00:18:40.009 --> 00:18:42.690 the dead tigers. And they convict him on everything. 00:18:43.079 --> 00:18:45.579 Two counts of murder for hire, eight counts of 00:18:45.579 --> 00:18:48.740 Lacey Act violations, nine counts of Endangered 00:18:48.740 --> 00:18:51.299 Species Act violations. A clean sweep. He gets 00:18:51.299 --> 00:18:54.700 sentenced to 22 years, but then there was a resentencing 00:18:54.700 --> 00:18:57.740 in 2022. I remember his supporters were acting 00:18:57.740 --> 00:18:59.920 like he was about to be released. It was very 00:18:59.920 --> 00:19:03.240 minor technicality. The appeals court ruled that 00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:05.160 the two murder for hire counts should have been 00:19:05.160 --> 00:19:07.859 grouped together as a single plot for sentencing 00:19:07.859 --> 00:19:10.619 purposes, not treated as two separate crimes. 00:19:11.160 --> 00:19:13.420 So the judge recalculated and the sentence was 00:19:13.420 --> 00:19:16.140 reduced by... One year. Just one year. From 22 00:19:16.140 --> 00:19:18.160 years to 21. Which means his current release 00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:21.019 date is scheduled for 2036. He was born in 63, 00:19:21.180 --> 00:19:23.599 so he'll be 73 years old when it gets out. If 00:19:23.599 --> 00:19:26.240 he serves the full term. And if he survives that 00:19:26.240 --> 00:19:28.579 long. And woven through this whole criminal saga 00:19:28.579 --> 00:19:31.539 is this incredible personal tragedy, The Husbands. 00:19:32.119 --> 00:19:35.079 The documentary focused on the throupled Joe, 00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:37.799 John Finley, and Travis Maldonado. And we have 00:19:37.799 --> 00:19:39.700 to be clear about the pattern here. It's a pattern 00:19:39.700 --> 00:19:43.869 of predation. Joe targeted very young, often 00:19:43.869 --> 00:19:46.250 straight, often vulnerable men who worked for 00:19:46.250 --> 00:19:49.769 him, men with drug problems. And he used his 00:19:49.769 --> 00:19:52.549 power, the money, the trucks, the guns, the access 00:19:52.549 --> 00:19:55.230 to drugs to control them. It was a massive power 00:19:55.230 --> 00:19:58.589 imbalance. Huge. And Travis Maldonado. I mean, 00:19:58.609 --> 00:20:00.930 his story is the most heartbreaking part of this 00:20:00.930 --> 00:20:04.210 entire saga. He's just a kid, 23. And by all 00:20:04.210 --> 00:20:07.589 accounts, not gay. He seemed completely trapped 00:20:07.589 --> 00:20:09.589 in this bizarre world Joe had built around him. 00:20:09.730 --> 00:20:12.470 And in 2017, he's in the zoo office, he's messing 00:20:12.470 --> 00:20:14.470 with a pistol. And he makes a fatal mistake. 00:20:14.750 --> 00:20:16.430 He thought the gun was safe because he'd taken 00:20:16.430 --> 00:20:18.789 the magazine out. He didn't understand that there 00:20:18.789 --> 00:20:20.890 could still be a round in the chamber. And he 00:20:20.890 --> 00:20:22.750 put the gun to his head, pulled the trigger, 00:20:22.829 --> 00:20:25.769 sort of as a joke, and died instantly. Right 00:20:25.769 --> 00:20:27.829 in front of the campaign manager, Joshua Dial. 00:20:28.190 --> 00:20:31.529 Who's profoundly traumatized by it. And Joe's 00:20:31.529 --> 00:20:34.599 reaction to this tragedy was just... So telling. 00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:36.480 It was all performance. He held a press conference. 00:20:36.839 --> 00:20:39.559 He started a charity in Travis's name, but then 00:20:39.559 --> 00:20:41.740 at the actual funeral, he made these bizarre, 00:20:41.779 --> 00:20:45.119 crude jokes about Travis's anatomy. It showed 00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:47.779 this complete emotional disconnect from the reality 00:20:47.779 --> 00:20:50.339 of what had happened. He was playing the part 00:20:50.339 --> 00:20:52.779 of the grieving widower. And then, just two months 00:20:52.779 --> 00:20:55.900 later, he marries Dylan Passage. Dylan was the 00:20:55.900 --> 00:20:58.160 husband who was there through the trial and the 00:20:58.160 --> 00:21:00.660 Netflix fame. They stayed together for a while, 00:21:00.680 --> 00:21:03.819 but eventually divorced in 2021. But here's the 00:21:03.819 --> 00:21:05.940 update, the part most people don't know because 00:21:05.940 --> 00:21:07.859 the cameras have moved on. He got married again 00:21:07.859 --> 00:21:10.779 in prison. This is the most recent twist. While 00:21:10.779 --> 00:21:13.779 incarcerated at FMC Fort Worth, he met another 00:21:13.779 --> 00:21:17.240 inmate, a man named Jorge Marquez. They got engaged 00:21:17.240 --> 00:21:20.579 in October of 2024, and they got married in April 00:21:20.579 --> 00:21:25.039 of 2025. So he's married right now. He is. But 00:21:25.039 --> 00:21:27.359 there's a catch. Jorge Marquez was released from 00:21:27.359 --> 00:21:30.619 prison in May of 2025. just one month after their 00:21:30.619 --> 00:21:32.980 prison wedding. And he was immediately deported 00:21:32.980 --> 00:21:36.079 to Mexico. Wow. So Joe is married, but his husband 00:21:36.079 --> 00:21:37.839 is in a different country, and he's still locked 00:21:37.839 --> 00:21:39.900 up in Fort Worth. It's another example of him 00:21:39.900 --> 00:21:42.259 creating these bonds, but ending up completely 00:21:42.259 --> 00:21:45.900 isolated anyway. And how is he physically? I 00:21:45.900 --> 00:21:47.099 know there have been a lot of health scares. 00:21:47.500 --> 00:21:49.400 It sounds like it's been pretty rough. He was 00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:52.519 diagnosed with prostate cancer in 2021. He had 00:21:52.519 --> 00:21:54.279 to be transferred to a special medical facility 00:21:54.279 --> 00:21:56.259 in North Carolina for treatment for a while. 00:21:56.420 --> 00:21:58.279 And he's back in Fort Worth now. Back in Fort 00:21:58.279 --> 00:22:00.539 Worth. But he's reported other issues, immune 00:22:00.539 --> 00:22:03.819 disorders. And in late 2024, he was writing letters 00:22:03.819 --> 00:22:06.619 complaining about a massive scabies outbreak 00:22:06.619 --> 00:22:10.119 in his prison unit. Scabies. A parasitic skin 00:22:10.119 --> 00:22:14.440 infestation. Incredibly itchy, contagious. It 00:22:14.440 --> 00:22:16.380 just paints this picture of a life that is so 00:22:16.380 --> 00:22:18.299 far removed from the guy on the throne with the 00:22:18.299 --> 00:22:21.460 tigers. He's aging, he's sick, and he's dealing 00:22:21.460 --> 00:22:23.500 with scabies in a medical prison. And yet he's 00:22:23.500 --> 00:22:25.940 still trying to protect the brand. He threatened 00:22:25.940 --> 00:22:28.319 to sue a college football player. Jordan Travis, 00:22:28.579 --> 00:22:31.160 the quarterback for Florida State. He was using 00:22:31.160 --> 00:22:33.519 the nickname Tiger King on some merchandise. 00:22:33.819 --> 00:22:37.339 And Joe, from his cell, sent a cease and desist 00:22:37.339 --> 00:22:40.319 threatening legal action. He claimed he owns 00:22:40.319 --> 00:22:43.000 the trademark to Tiger King. It's the only asset 00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:45.940 he has left. The name itself. The fame is all 00:22:45.940 --> 00:22:50.200 he has. So where are we now in 2026? The zoo 00:22:50.200 --> 00:22:52.839 is gone. Carole Baskin ended up with the land. 00:22:52.900 --> 00:22:55.619 Is that right? That is the ultimate perfect irony 00:22:55.619 --> 00:22:58.750 of the entire feud. The court awarded her the 00:22:58.750 --> 00:23:01.009 land as part of the settlement for that million 00:23:01.009 --> 00:23:03.549 -dollar judgment he refused to pay. She took 00:23:03.549 --> 00:23:06.349 ownership of the GW Zoo. So the cages are all 00:23:06.349 --> 00:23:08.509 gone. She sold the property, but she put a deed 00:23:08.509 --> 00:23:11.170 restriction on it. It can never be used as a 00:23:11.170 --> 00:23:14.049 zoo or to house exotic animals ever again. The 00:23:14.049 --> 00:23:16.230 kingdom has literally been erased from the map. 00:23:16.369 --> 00:23:18.589 It's just a plot of land at Oklahoma now. There 00:23:18.589 --> 00:23:21.529 was that moment, though, in early 2021 when he 00:23:21.529 --> 00:23:23.549 was absolutely convinced he was getting out. 00:23:23.789 --> 00:23:26.329 The pardon attempt. Oh, the Team Tiger limo. 00:23:26.589 --> 00:23:29.470 That image just says it all. They were so sure 00:23:29.470 --> 00:23:31.150 that Donald Trump was going to pardon him on 00:23:31.150 --> 00:23:33.369 his last day in office. They had a stretch monster 00:23:33.369 --> 00:23:35.569 truck limo parked and waiting outside the prison. 00:23:35.670 --> 00:23:37.349 They had a whole team ready, hair and makeup. 00:23:37.589 --> 00:23:39.509 Ready to get him camera ready for the press tour. 00:23:40.150 --> 00:23:42.470 And they just waited. And waited. They waited 00:23:42.470 --> 00:23:44.970 all day. The sun went down. The inauguration 00:23:44.970 --> 00:23:48.190 happened. Joe Biden became president. And the 00:23:48.190 --> 00:23:51.470 pardon never came. Joe stayed in his cell and 00:23:51.470 --> 00:23:54.210 that empty limo just sat there. It's a perfect 00:23:54.210 --> 00:23:56.349 symbol for the whole story. Delusion crashing 00:23:56.349 --> 00:23:59.329 right up against reality. Exactly that. Before 00:23:59.329 --> 00:24:01.509 we wrap this up, there is one last piece of his 00:24:01.509 --> 00:24:03.609 psychology that I think is fascinating. He's 00:24:03.609 --> 00:24:06.329 made statements recently that suggest, well, 00:24:06.490 --> 00:24:08.970 a change of heart. He has. He wrote in a letter, 00:24:09.069 --> 00:24:13.450 no animal belongs in a cage. He claims that now 00:24:13.450 --> 00:24:15.369 that he knows what it's like to be locked in 00:24:15.369 --> 00:24:18.029 a cage, you know, the boredom, the lack of freedom, 00:24:18.150 --> 00:24:20.930 being told what to do all day, he finally understands 00:24:20.930 --> 00:24:22.890 what he did to those animals. And he says he 00:24:22.890 --> 00:24:25.119 regrets it. That he'd never own a zoo again. 00:24:25.339 --> 00:24:27.539 That's what he says. And that's the ultimate 00:24:27.539 --> 00:24:29.759 question with Joe Exotic, isn't it? Is this a 00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:32.000 genuine epiphany born out of his own suffering? 00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:35.119 Is he finally connecting his own pain to the 00:24:35.119 --> 00:24:37.180 pain of the tigers? It's just another performance. 00:24:37.599 --> 00:24:40.740 Or is he just a master manipulator saying exactly 00:24:40.740 --> 00:24:43.180 what he thinks a parole board or the public wants 00:24:43.180 --> 00:24:46.519 to hear? He knows redemption is a powerful narrative. 00:24:46.799 --> 00:24:50.000 He knows remorse is a good legal strategy. With 00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:52.000 him, you just can't ever seem to find the line 00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:54.440 between the man and the performance. And I think 00:24:54.440 --> 00:24:57.079 that fundamental ambiguity is why, even now, 00:24:57.259 --> 00:24:59.759 we're still talking about him. He's a villain, 00:24:59.920 --> 00:25:02.539 he's a victim, he's a caricature, and he's a 00:25:02.539 --> 00:25:05.299 tragedy all at the same time. The king in a cage. 00:25:06.569 --> 00:25:08.369 Well, that brings us to the end of this deep 00:25:08.369 --> 00:25:11.250 dive. We have unpacked the police years, the 00:25:11.250 --> 00:25:14.430 bizarre economics of the cub petting trade, the 00:25:14.430 --> 00:25:18.390 political campaigns, and the pretty grim reality 00:25:18.390 --> 00:25:20.910 of his life today. It's a much heavier story 00:25:20.910 --> 00:25:23.029 when you pull back the curtain on the memes. 00:25:23.710 --> 00:25:26.289 It's a story about the real cost of fame and 00:25:26.289 --> 00:25:29.140 attention. It really is. If you want to see the 00:25:29.140 --> 00:25:31.200 timelines, the actual court documents from the 00:25:31.200 --> 00:25:33.400 Lasiak charges or even photos from his time as 00:25:33.400 --> 00:25:34.740 a police chief, we'll have links in the show 00:25:34.740 --> 00:25:38.440 notes. But be warned, it is a very, very deep 00:25:38.440 --> 00:25:41.140 rabbit hole. It is indeed. You are now well informed. 00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:41.880 Thanks for listening.