WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.919 Welcome back to the Deep Dive. I hope you are 00:00:02.919 --> 00:00:06.000 ready to swim because today we are opening a 00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:10.320 file on a figure who, quite honestly, feels like 00:00:10.320 --> 00:00:12.859 he is everywhere right now. Oh, everywhere. That's 00:00:12.859 --> 00:00:14.960 not an exaggeration. You open your LinkedIn feed. 00:00:15.080 --> 00:00:17.620 There he is. You walk into a corporate boardroom. 00:00:17.699 --> 00:00:20.460 Someone is quoting him. You go on YouTube and 00:00:20.460 --> 00:00:23.059 you see that, you know, that slightly grady video 00:00:23.059 --> 00:00:25.579 of a guy in a suit with a flip chart and a cheap 00:00:25.579 --> 00:00:29.679 marker just completely changing the way millions 00:00:29.679 --> 00:00:32.000 of people think about business. It is genuinely 00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:34.859 hard to exist in the modern professional world 00:00:34.859 --> 00:00:37.060 without tripping over Simon Sinek. It really 00:00:37.060 --> 00:00:39.979 is. He has become part of the cultural furniture 00:00:39.979 --> 00:00:42.780 of leadership. Exactly. Yeah. And that is why 00:00:42.780 --> 00:00:45.210 we need to talk about him. But here's the thing 00:00:45.210 --> 00:00:47.369 that really triggered this specific deep dive 00:00:47.369 --> 00:00:50.070 for me. OK. Usually when we cover these massive 00:00:50.070 --> 00:00:53.710 business gurus, they fit a very specific, very 00:00:53.710 --> 00:00:57.170 rigid mold. They're the ex -CEO of General Electric. 00:00:57.270 --> 00:00:59.229 Right. The Wharton MBA. They're a tenured professor 00:00:59.229 --> 00:01:01.450 of economics at Harvard. They're quantitative 00:01:01.450 --> 00:01:04.829 analysts who crunched the numbers and, you know, 00:01:04.829 --> 00:01:09.280 found the secret sauce. But Simon Sinek. He is 00:01:09.280 --> 00:01:10.980 none of those things. No, he definitely breaks 00:01:10.980 --> 00:01:13.459 the mold. He's an outlier in, I think, the best 00:01:13.459 --> 00:01:15.959 possible way. And I think the best place to start 00:01:15.959 --> 00:01:18.340 is with how he actually defines himself. Because 00:01:18.340 --> 00:01:20.040 in the source material we have in front of us, 00:01:20.079 --> 00:01:22.019 the biographical review, the publication history, 00:01:22.260 --> 00:01:24.700 he doesn't call himself a management consultant. 00:01:25.000 --> 00:01:27.340 Nope. He doesn't call himself a strategist. Right. 00:01:27.439 --> 00:01:30.159 If you look at his own bio, the title he gives 00:01:30.159 --> 00:01:33.469 himself is optimist. An optimist. With a capital 00:01:33.469 --> 00:01:36.730 O. A capital O. It is a defined professional 00:01:36.730 --> 00:01:39.689 title for him. It's on his business card. I think 00:01:39.689 --> 00:01:41.750 so. And I think for a lot of people that might 00:01:41.750 --> 00:01:45.829 sound a little, well, a little fluffy. Yeah, 00:01:45.849 --> 00:01:47.790 a bit. It sounds like something you put in your 00:01:47.790 --> 00:01:52.209 Instagram bio, not on your tax return. But our 00:01:52.209 --> 00:01:55.370 mission today is to peel back that label and 00:01:55.370 --> 00:01:58.000 look at the actual mechanics underneath. Because 00:01:58.000 --> 00:02:01.359 Sinek isn't just selling good vibes. He has built 00:02:01.359 --> 00:02:05.540 a massive global empire based on a very specific, 00:02:05.819 --> 00:02:08.900 very rigorous way of looking at human behavior. 00:02:09.139 --> 00:02:11.139 And that's the hook, right? We're going to dig 00:02:11.139 --> 00:02:13.800 into the fact that his background isn't in business 00:02:13.800 --> 00:02:16.259 at all. It's in anthropology. The absolute key 00:02:16.259 --> 00:02:19.199 to understanding him. We're going to look at... 00:02:19.879 --> 00:02:22.639 How a guy who's studied cultural rituals and 00:02:22.639 --> 00:02:26.060 human tribes ends up advising the U .S. military, 00:02:26.520 --> 00:02:29.599 the Rand Corporation, and some of the biggest 00:02:29.599 --> 00:02:32.039 companies on Earth. It's a wild trajectory. And 00:02:32.039 --> 00:02:33.419 we aren't going to shy away from the business 00:02:33.419 --> 00:02:35.639 of being Simon Sinek either. No. We are going 00:02:35.639 --> 00:02:37.560 to look at the evolution of his bibliography, 00:02:37.719 --> 00:02:40.500 his institutional ties, and yes, even some of 00:02:40.500 --> 00:02:42.319 the controversies that have popped up along the 00:02:42.319 --> 00:02:44.960 way, specifically regarding government contracts. 00:02:45.340 --> 00:02:48.400 It is a fascinating story. From a kid moving 00:02:48.400 --> 00:02:50.819 across the globe to a global thought leader. 00:02:51.080 --> 00:02:53.060 So let's start at the very beginning. Let's do 00:02:53.060 --> 00:02:56.379 it. Because to understand the why guy, you have 00:02:56.379 --> 00:02:58.699 to understand where he actually came from. And 00:02:58.699 --> 00:03:00.939 where he came from isn't a simple answer. If 00:03:00.939 --> 00:03:02.560 you look at his early biography, the geography 00:03:02.560 --> 00:03:06.560 is all over the map. Literally. So, Simon Oliver 00:03:06.560 --> 00:03:10.719 Sinek, born October 9th, 1973. In Wimbledon, 00:03:10.719 --> 00:03:12.919 London, England. So he starts his life across 00:03:12.919 --> 00:03:16.300 the pond. Right. A proper English start. But 00:03:16.300 --> 00:03:18.400 he doesn't stay there. And this is the part that 00:03:18.400 --> 00:03:20.259 really jumped out at me as we were prepping this. 00:03:20.379 --> 00:03:23.439 His childhood map is just, it's incredibly erratic. 00:03:23.500 --> 00:03:25.500 It's nomadic. He's born in Wimbledon. Then the 00:03:25.500 --> 00:03:27.560 family moves to Johannesburg, South Africa. Right. 00:03:27.680 --> 00:03:30.000 Then back to London. Then over to Hong Kong. 00:03:30.400 --> 00:03:33.180 And then finally, they settle in the United States. 00:03:33.500 --> 00:03:35.680 Just pause and think about that itinerary for 00:03:35.680 --> 00:03:39.240 a second. We're talking about the 1970s and 80s 00:03:39.240 --> 00:03:41.509 here. Yeah. These aren't just different cities. 00:03:41.610 --> 00:03:43.909 They are entirely different universes culturally. 00:03:44.250 --> 00:03:47.909 You have post -imperial Britain. You have South 00:03:47.909 --> 00:03:50.330 Africa during the apartheid era. A very intense 00:03:50.330 --> 00:03:53.090 place to be. Absolutely. Then you have Hong Kong, 00:03:53.289 --> 00:03:55.930 which was this frenetic, high -energy British 00:03:55.930 --> 00:03:59.270 colony on the edge of communist China. And then 00:03:59.270 --> 00:04:01.849 you land in the suburbs of New Jersey. That is 00:04:01.849 --> 00:04:04.229 a serious amount of cultural whiplash for a kid. 00:04:04.270 --> 00:04:06.849 I can't even imagine. It is. But think about 00:04:06.849 --> 00:04:09.560 what that does to a developing brain. When you 00:04:09.560 --> 00:04:12.159 are the new kid that many times in that many 00:04:12.159 --> 00:04:15.080 different environments, you never fully belong 00:04:15.080 --> 00:04:18.000 to any of them. Right. You are always the outsider. 00:04:18.019 --> 00:04:20.959 You are always the other. You're the third culture 00:04:20.959 --> 00:04:23.040 kid. That's the term for it, isn't it? Exactly. 00:04:23.279 --> 00:04:26.019 And when you are the outsider, you develop a 00:04:26.019 --> 00:04:29.319 survival skill. Observation. You have to. You 00:04:29.319 --> 00:04:31.759 have no choice. If you want to survive socially. 00:04:32.379 --> 00:04:34.459 on a playground in Johannesburg and then a year 00:04:34.459 --> 00:04:36.180 later on a playground in Hong Kong, you have 00:04:36.180 --> 00:04:38.800 to figure out the rules fast. You have to watch. 00:04:39.060 --> 00:04:41.420 Who's in charge here? Who is the leader here? 00:04:41.680 --> 00:04:44.480 How do they show respect? What gets you punished? 00:04:44.680 --> 00:04:47.199 What gets you rewarded? You have to decode the 00:04:47.199 --> 00:04:50.120 tribe just to get through lunch. Precisely. You 00:04:50.120 --> 00:04:52.779 become a watcher of human behavior by necessity. 00:04:53.259 --> 00:04:56.060 You learn to spot the patterns that the locals, 00:04:56.259 --> 00:04:57.779 the people who have lived there their whole lives, 00:04:57.939 --> 00:05:00.180 don't even see because they are too close to 00:05:00.180 --> 00:05:03.420 it. So in a way, his childhood forced him to 00:05:03.420 --> 00:05:05.699 become an amateur anthropologist before he even 00:05:05.699 --> 00:05:07.740 knew what the word meant. I don't think it is 00:05:07.740 --> 00:05:10.899 a coincidence at all, not one bit, that when 00:05:10.899 --> 00:05:13.480 he finally got to college, that is exactly what 00:05:13.480 --> 00:05:15.860 he chose to study. Let's look at the education 00:05:15.860 --> 00:05:17.819 path, because this is where the foundation is 00:05:17.819 --> 00:05:20.379 poured. He settles in the U .S., goes to high 00:05:20.379 --> 00:05:22.779 school in New Jersey, Northern Valley Regional 00:05:22.779 --> 00:05:25.519 High School at Demarest, specifically. Right. 00:05:25.639 --> 00:05:29.259 Go Norseman. Graduates in 1991. Mm -hmm. And 00:05:29.259 --> 00:05:31.300 then he heads to Brandeis University in Massachusetts. 00:05:32.560 --> 00:05:34.860 Now, if you are planning to become a massive 00:05:34.860 --> 00:05:37.240 business consultant, usually you'd expect this 00:05:37.240 --> 00:05:39.259 part of the story to be, and then he enrolled 00:05:39.259 --> 00:05:41.720 in the Wharton School of Business or he majored 00:05:41.720 --> 00:05:44.399 in economics. But he didn't. He earned a B .A. 00:05:44.480 --> 00:05:47.079 in cultural anthropology. This, to me, is the 00:05:47.079 --> 00:05:50.199 Rosetta Stone for his entire career. If you skip 00:05:50.199 --> 00:05:52.779 this fact, you miss the entire point of Simon 00:05:52.779 --> 00:05:55.459 Sinek. I agree completely because cultural anthropology 00:05:55.459 --> 00:05:58.480 is not the study of spreadsheets. It isn't the 00:05:58.480 --> 00:06:01.279 study of profit margins. It is the study of humans. 00:06:01.519 --> 00:06:04.120 It is the study of why groups of people behave 00:06:04.120 --> 00:06:06.699 the way they do. It looks at symbols, rituals, 00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:09.839 social structures, hierarchies and myths. Right. 00:06:09.920 --> 00:06:11.160 So for the listener who might not be familiar 00:06:11.160 --> 00:06:14.720 with the field, an anthropologist looks at a 00:06:14.720 --> 00:06:16.959 group, say a remote tribe in the Amazon and asks, 00:06:17.079 --> 00:06:20.180 what holds this group together? Why do they trust 00:06:20.180 --> 00:06:22.459 their leader? What are their taboos? All these 00:06:22.459 --> 00:06:25.560 like. Invisible forces. Exactly. And Sinek's 00:06:25.560 --> 00:06:28.759 genius was that he took that lens, that anthropological 00:06:28.759 --> 00:06:30.959 lens, and he turned it on the modern corporation. 00:06:31.439 --> 00:06:34.339 He realized that a company like Microsoft or 00:06:34.339 --> 00:06:38.139 Apple or American Airlines isn't a machine. It's 00:06:38.139 --> 00:06:41.100 a tribe. It's a group of primates trying to survive 00:06:41.100 --> 00:06:44.100 and thrive together. So while other consultants 00:06:44.100 --> 00:06:46.560 are looking at the P &L statement, Sinek is looking 00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:48.839 for the rituals. He's looking for the signs of 00:06:48.839 --> 00:06:50.980 safety. He is looking at the biology of belonging. 00:06:51.240 --> 00:06:53.800 If you listen to his language, even today it 00:06:53.800 --> 00:06:56.100 is very tribal. He talks about the circle of 00:06:56.100 --> 00:06:58.480 safety. He talks about servant leadership. He 00:06:58.480 --> 00:07:01.579 talks about trust as a biological reaction, not 00:07:01.579 --> 00:07:04.660 a contractual obligation. That is pure anthroposophical. 00:07:04.660 --> 00:07:06.420 It's straight out of the textbook. It explains 00:07:06.420 --> 00:07:09.420 why his advice feels so different. It's not increase 00:07:09.420 --> 00:07:12.160 efficiency by 10 percent. Yeah. It's make your 00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:14.120 people feel safe so they can do their best work. 00:07:14.240 --> 00:07:16.699 It's a completely different paradigm. It grounds 00:07:16.699 --> 00:07:19.360 business and humanity. Yeah. But interestingly 00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:21.579 enough, he didn't go straight from Brandeis to 00:07:21.579 --> 00:07:24.100 the TED stage. He took a detour that I think 00:07:24.100 --> 00:07:26.579 is equally important. Right. The law school era 00:07:26.579 --> 00:07:28.860 or the almost lawyer era, I should say. The almost 00:07:28.860 --> 00:07:31.519 lawyer era. Yeah. He studied law at City University 00:07:31.519 --> 00:07:33.680 London. So back to London again. Back to London. 00:07:33.740 --> 00:07:35.740 And even though he didn't become a practicing 00:07:35.740 --> 00:07:39.800 barrister. This training is crucial. Why is that? 00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:44.379 Law is about logic. It is about structure. It 00:07:44.379 --> 00:07:47.740 is about taking a messy, complex set of facts 00:07:47.740 --> 00:07:50.699 and organizing them into a coherent, persuasive 00:07:50.699 --> 00:07:53.500 argument. Okay, I see. So you have the observer 00:07:53.500 --> 00:07:56.180 from the anthropology side, the person who sees 00:07:56.180 --> 00:07:58.920 the human patterns. Yes. And then you have the 00:07:58.920 --> 00:08:01.500 advocate from the law side, the person who can 00:08:01.500 --> 00:08:03.939 build a clear, logical case around what he's 00:08:03.939 --> 00:08:07.500 seeing. And those two things combine to create 00:08:07.500 --> 00:08:10.259 a very, very powerful communicator, someone who 00:08:10.259 --> 00:08:13.220 can see a deep human truth and then structure 00:08:13.220 --> 00:08:16.839 a logical, irrefutable argument around it. Which 00:08:16.839 --> 00:08:19.459 leads us perfectly to his first real career, 00:08:19.740 --> 00:08:22.480 advertising. The industry of persuasion. He worked 00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:25.639 at some serious agencies, Euro, RSCG, and Ogilvy 00:08:25.639 --> 00:08:28.680 & Mather in New York. Ogilvy? Yeah. These aren't 00:08:28.680 --> 00:08:31.480 small shops. These are the giants of Madison 00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:34.080 Avenue. And working at a place like Ogilvy implies 00:08:34.080 --> 00:08:36.100 a few things. I mean, it's the Mad Men legacy, 00:08:36.340 --> 00:08:38.940 right? Totally. You are trained to take a complex 00:08:38.940 --> 00:08:41.679 product or a complex message and distill it down 00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:44.539 to one simple emotional hook. You have to be 00:08:44.539 --> 00:08:46.440 able to draw it on a napkin. You have to be able 00:08:46.440 --> 00:08:48.440 to say it in a tagline. You aren't selling the 00:08:48.440 --> 00:08:50.279 features of the car. You're selling the feeling 00:08:50.279 --> 00:08:52.940 of the open road. Exactly. And if you look at 00:08:52.940 --> 00:08:55.399 Sinek's most famous concept, the golden circle, 00:08:55.580 --> 00:08:58.240 it is essentially a perfect piece of ad copy. 00:08:58.639 --> 00:09:01.519 It is a diagram. It is visual. It is simple. 00:09:01.600 --> 00:09:04.740 It is sticky. He took deep anthropological concepts 00:09:04.740 --> 00:09:07.480 about human motivation and packaged them with 00:09:07.480 --> 00:09:10.440 the slickness and clarity of a high -end ad executive. 00:09:10.779 --> 00:09:12.559 Wow, that's a great connection. I hadn't thought 00:09:12.559 --> 00:09:14.340 of it that way. It's the perfect marriage of 00:09:14.340 --> 00:09:16.440 his skills. So he spends time in the ad world. 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:18.860 He learns the trade of messaging. He eventually 00:09:18.860 --> 00:09:21.399 launches his own consultancy, Cynic Partners. 00:09:22.090 --> 00:09:24.450 But the moment everything changes, the tipping 00:09:24.450 --> 00:09:26.570 point where he goes from guy with a consultancy 00:09:26.570 --> 00:09:31.389 to Simon Sinek is 2009. 2009, the year the why 00:09:31.389 --> 00:09:33.909 went global. He publishes the book, Start With 00:09:33.909 --> 00:09:37.190 Why, How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take 00:09:37.190 --> 00:09:40.970 Action. And critically, he gives a TEDx talk. 00:09:41.480 --> 00:09:44.360 We have to pause on that TED Talk because the 00:09:44.360 --> 00:09:46.240 source material notes that this is one of the 00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:49.340 most viewed TED Talks of all time. We are talking 00:09:49.340 --> 00:09:52.539 tens of millions of views. It's staggering. And 00:09:52.539 --> 00:09:55.059 if you go back and watch it, it is strikingly 00:09:55.059 --> 00:09:57.000 low tech. Oh, it's not flashy at all. There are 00:09:57.000 --> 00:09:59.000 no bells and whistles. The audio is a little 00:09:59.000 --> 00:10:01.120 echoey. He's wearing a slightly ill -fitting 00:10:01.120 --> 00:10:03.320 suit. He doesn't have a PowerPoint. He doesn't 00:10:03.320 --> 00:10:05.620 have lasers. He has a flip chart and a Sharpie. 00:10:05.659 --> 00:10:07.679 And he drops the microphone at one point, doesn't 00:10:07.679 --> 00:10:09.759 he? Or the marker. Something clatters to the 00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:13.279 ground. Yes, it's very raw. But that rawness 00:10:13.279 --> 00:10:15.580 is part of why it worked. And we have to look 00:10:15.580 --> 00:10:18.559 at the context of 2009. Oh, absolutely. The Great 00:10:18.559 --> 00:10:20.840 Recession. The world had just fallen off a cliff. 00:10:21.080 --> 00:10:23.379 The global financial system had nearly collapsed. 00:10:23.840 --> 00:10:26.720 Trust in corporations was at absolute zero. People 00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:29.299 were angry. They were scared. They felt betrayed 00:10:29.299 --> 00:10:31.460 by their leaders. They felt that business was 00:10:31.460 --> 00:10:35.080 just about greed. And here comes this guy with 00:10:35.080 --> 00:10:38.240 a simple marker standing there saying, We are 00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:40.620 doing it all wrong. It's not about money. It's 00:10:40.620 --> 00:10:43.139 about why. The timing was just perfect. It was 00:10:43.139 --> 00:10:45.240 the exact message people needed to hear at that 00:10:45.240 --> 00:10:47.460 moment. It was a life raft. Let's break down 00:10:47.460 --> 00:10:49.899 that concept, the golden circle, because it is 00:10:49.899 --> 00:10:51.980 the foundation of everything else he does. Right. 00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:54.700 So for anyone listening, just visualize a target. 00:10:54.820 --> 00:10:57.100 Yeah. Three concentric circles. Like a dartboard. 00:10:57.299 --> 00:11:00.529 Exactly. The outside ring is what, the middle 00:11:00.529 --> 00:11:02.909 ring is how, and the center bullseye is why. 00:11:03.250 --> 00:11:06.110 Okay. Sinek argues that every single organization 00:11:06.110 --> 00:11:09.029 on the planet knows what they do. That's the 00:11:09.029 --> 00:11:12.210 easy part. We make computers. We sell legal services. 00:11:12.330 --> 00:11:15.070 We manufacture cars. Everyone knows the what. 00:11:15.230 --> 00:11:18.450 And some know how they do it. That's your value 00:11:18.450 --> 00:11:21.090 proposition. We have the best proprietary process. 00:11:21.389 --> 00:11:24.169 We use the finest materials. That's the how, 00:11:24.370 --> 00:11:27.529 the differentiator. But very, very few know. 00:11:28.440 --> 00:11:31.460 Why they do it. And by why, he doesn't mean to 00:11:31.460 --> 00:11:33.740 make a profit. That's a result. He's very clear 00:11:33.740 --> 00:11:36.419 on that. He means, what is your cause? What is 00:11:36.419 --> 00:11:38.740 your belief? Why does your organization exist 00:11:38.740 --> 00:11:40.720 in the first place? Why do you get out of bed 00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:43.379 in the morning? And why should anyone care? And 00:11:43.379 --> 00:11:46.139 his big argument is that most leaders communicate 00:11:46.139 --> 00:11:48.960 from the outside in. They start with the what? 00:11:49.080 --> 00:11:51.799 All the time. Here is our new car. It has great 00:11:51.799 --> 00:11:54.879 gas mileage and leather seats. Buy it. But the 00:11:54.879 --> 00:11:57.840 inspiring leaders. The ones who changed the world, 00:11:57.940 --> 00:12:00.519 the Apples, the Martin Luther King Jrs, the Wright 00:12:00.519 --> 00:12:03.139 brothers, they communicate from the inside out. 00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:05.940 They start with the why. The famous Apple example. 00:12:06.159 --> 00:12:08.519 Instead of, we make great computers, it's... 00:12:08.519 --> 00:12:11.120 It's everything we do, we believe in challenging 00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:13.620 the status quo. We believe in thinking differently. 00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:16.519 That's the why. Okay. The way we challenge the 00:12:16.519 --> 00:12:18.620 status quo is by making our products beautifully 00:12:18.620 --> 00:12:21.600 designed and simple to use. That's the how. And 00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:23.759 then... We just happen to make great computers. 00:12:23.779 --> 00:12:26.039 That's the what? Want to buy one? It's a total 00:12:26.039 --> 00:12:28.580 reversal. And it feels completely different. 00:12:28.779 --> 00:12:31.179 It feels like an invitation, not a sales pitch. 00:12:31.759 --> 00:12:33.779 And he connects this back to biology, right? 00:12:34.179 --> 00:12:36.460 This isn't just a linguistic trick. This is the 00:12:36.460 --> 00:12:39.440 anthropology coming back in a huge way. He argues 00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:42.720 that the why and the how correspond to the limbic 00:12:42.720 --> 00:12:44.919 brain. OK, the limbic brain. The part of the 00:12:44.919 --> 00:12:47.980 brain that controls feelings like trust and loyalty. 00:12:48.559 --> 00:12:50.840 It's also the part of the brain that has no capacity 00:12:50.840 --> 00:12:53.919 for language. Right. Which is why when you ask 00:12:53.919 --> 00:12:56.779 someone, why do you love your spouse? Yeah. They 00:12:56.779 --> 00:12:59.700 can't give you a bulleted list of reasons. They 00:12:59.700 --> 00:13:01.799 can't. They just say, I don't know, it just feels 00:13:01.799 --> 00:13:04.580 right. Exactly. That is the limbic brain speaking. 00:13:04.740 --> 00:13:07.279 That's your gut feeling. So if you want to influence 00:13:07.279 --> 00:13:10.419 behavior, if you want loyalty, you have to speak 00:13:10.419 --> 00:13:12.179 to the limbic brain. You have to speak to the 00:13:12.179 --> 00:13:14.360 why. But if you only talk about features and 00:13:14.360 --> 00:13:17.679 benefits, you were just talking to the neocortex. 00:13:17.879 --> 00:13:20.039 The rational brain. Yeah. You might get a transaction, 00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:22.440 but you won't get loyalty. People don't buy what 00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:25.110 you do. They buy why you do it. That concept 00:13:25.110 --> 00:13:27.490 just exploded. It resonated so deeply because 00:13:27.490 --> 00:13:30.049 I think people were starving for meaning in their 00:13:30.049 --> 00:13:32.809 work, especially after 2008. They were desperate 00:13:32.809 --> 00:13:34.649 for it. But what's interesting to me is that 00:13:34.649 --> 00:13:36.570 Sinek didn't stop there. He didn't just become 00:13:36.570 --> 00:13:39.370 the why guy and retire. No, his thinking evolved. 00:13:39.769 --> 00:13:42.009 And if you look at his bibliography chronologically, 00:13:42.250 --> 00:13:44.610 you can see him expanding the theory, building 00:13:44.610 --> 00:13:47.950 a whole universe around this one core idea. Let's 00:13:47.950 --> 00:13:49.610 walk through that library because it tells a 00:13:49.610 --> 00:13:52.870 story of its own. 2009 is start with why. Then 00:13:52.870 --> 00:13:56.299 we have a... Bit of a gap until 2014. And then 00:13:56.299 --> 00:13:58.860 he drops Leaders Eat Last. Leaders Eat Last. 00:13:59.039 --> 00:14:01.500 Why some teams pull together and others don't. 00:14:01.500 --> 00:14:03.799 Now look at the shift in focus. It's a different 00:14:03.799 --> 00:14:06.259 lens. The first book was about the individual 00:14:06.259 --> 00:14:09.860 leader or the brand how to inspire action outward. 00:14:10.440 --> 00:14:12.659 This book is about the team. It's about the internal 00:14:12.659 --> 00:14:15.980 culture. How do you inspire action inward? The 00:14:15.980 --> 00:14:17.620 title itself is a great story. Where did that 00:14:17.620 --> 00:14:19.700 come from? It comes from a conversation he had 00:14:19.700 --> 00:14:22.120 with a Marine Corps general. He asked him, what 00:14:22.120 --> 00:14:24.240 makes the Marines so effective? Why are they 00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:26.340 so tight knit? Why would they risk their lives 00:14:26.340 --> 00:14:28.700 for each other? And the general simply said, 00:14:28.820 --> 00:14:32.159 officers eat last. It's a literal rule in the 00:14:32.159 --> 00:14:35.340 chow hall. It is. When the Marines line up for 00:14:35.340 --> 00:14:37.960 food, the most junior recruit eats first. The 00:14:37.960 --> 00:14:40.659 senior general eats last. And if the food runs 00:14:40.659 --> 00:14:44.159 out, the general goes hungry. Wow. That is a 00:14:44.159 --> 00:14:46.659 powerful symbol. It is the physical manifestation 00:14:46.659 --> 00:14:50.080 of leadership. It signals to the tribe, I will 00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:52.840 sacrifice my comfort for your survival. Your 00:14:52.840 --> 00:14:55.700 well -being comes before my own. And Sinek argues 00:14:55.700 --> 00:14:58.580 that this creates what he calls the circle of 00:14:58.580 --> 00:15:01.720 safety. Yes, the circle of safety. When we feel 00:15:01.720 --> 00:15:03.740 safe, when we know our leader has our back, our 00:15:03.740 --> 00:15:07.700 biology changes. Our cortisol levels drop. Cortisol 00:15:07.700 --> 00:15:10.370 is the stress hormone. The fight or flight chemical. 00:15:10.590 --> 00:15:12.889 Right. If you are constantly worried that your 00:15:12.889 --> 00:15:15.169 boss is going to fire you to save a nickel or 00:15:15.169 --> 00:15:16.909 throw you under the bus in a meeting to look 00:15:16.909 --> 00:15:19.269 good. Which happens all the time. You are dripping 00:15:19.269 --> 00:15:21.570 with cortisol. You are in fight or flight mode. 00:15:21.710 --> 00:15:24.049 You can't innovate. You can't trust. You are 00:15:24.049 --> 00:15:26.889 just trying to survive the day. But if the leader 00:15:26.889 --> 00:15:30.029 eats last, if they prove they are there to protect 00:15:30.029 --> 00:15:32.909 you, the cortisol drops and oxytocin kicks in. 00:15:32.990 --> 00:15:35.830 The bonding chemical. The love drug, they sometimes 00:15:35.830 --> 00:15:40.769 call it. It facilitates empathy. trust, generosity. 00:15:41.350 --> 00:15:44.149 And when that happens, the team naturally pulls 00:15:44.149 --> 00:15:46.570 together to face external threats instead of 00:15:46.570 --> 00:15:49.570 fighting each other internally. Sinek is basically 00:15:49.570 --> 00:15:53.230 telling modern CEOs that they are failing because 00:15:53.230 --> 00:15:56.230 they are ignoring our basic primate programming. 00:15:56.570 --> 00:15:58.450 Leaders Eat Last was a huge hit. It made the 00:15:58.450 --> 00:16:00.470 New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestseller 00:16:00.470 --> 00:16:03.210 lists. It cemented him as a management expert, 00:16:03.289 --> 00:16:05.690 not just a marketing guy. For sure. Then in 2016, 00:16:05.789 --> 00:16:08.370 we got a bit of a curveball. Together is Better, 00:16:08.529 --> 00:16:10.690 a little book of inspiration. A little book. 00:16:10.909 --> 00:16:12.730 This one feels different. It's illustrated. It's 00:16:12.730 --> 00:16:14.629 almost like a fable or a children's book for 00:16:14.629 --> 00:16:16.850 adults. It is, and it suggests a move toward 00:16:16.850 --> 00:16:19.269 accessibility. He wanted something that wasn't 00:16:19.269 --> 00:16:22.509 a dense 300 -page business book. He wanted something 00:16:22.509 --> 00:16:25.009 you could give to a graduate or leave on a desk 00:16:25.009 --> 00:16:27.730 in the office. It's the optimism brand distilled 00:16:27.730 --> 00:16:30.330 into a pure, shareable format. It's snackable 00:16:30.330 --> 00:16:33.370 content. And then in 2017, find your why. This 00:16:33.370 --> 00:16:35.429 was the necessary tactical follow -up. It was 00:16:35.429 --> 00:16:37.990 almost inevitable. Because after start with why, 00:16:38.250 --> 00:16:40.169 the number one question he must have gotten was, 00:16:40.370 --> 00:16:42.309 Okay, Simon, I get it. The why is important. 00:16:42.879 --> 00:16:45.320 But how do I find mine? Right. It's easy for 00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:47.940 Apple. They have Steve Jobs. But what if I'm 00:16:47.940 --> 00:16:50.320 a mid -level manager at a paper company? What's 00:16:50.320 --> 00:16:53.679 my grand, world -changing why? Exactly. So Find 00:16:53.679 --> 00:16:55.879 Your Why is a practical guide. It's a workbook. 00:16:55.980 --> 00:16:59.000 It has exercises and steps. It marks the shift 00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:02.559 from philosopher to trainer. He is giving people 00:17:02.559 --> 00:17:04.700 the shovel to do the digging themselves. It's 00:17:04.700 --> 00:17:06.420 the application. It's the application. And then 00:17:06.420 --> 00:17:09.059 the most recent major work in our source stack 00:17:09.059 --> 00:17:12.640 is 2019's The Infinite Game. And honestly, I 00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:15.039 think this is his most intellectually ambitious 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:17.579 concept. I agree. This is where he steps out 00:17:17.579 --> 00:17:19.980 of just team dynamics and looks at macro strategy. 00:17:20.259 --> 00:17:22.460 This is him thinking on a much grander scale. 00:17:22.740 --> 00:17:25.099 Let's unpack the title. What is an infinite game? 00:17:25.319 --> 00:17:27.539 The concept comes from a scholar named James 00:17:27.539 --> 00:17:30.819 P. Kars. Sinek takes that academic idea and applies 00:17:30.819 --> 00:17:33.740 it to business and capitalism. Basically, there 00:17:33.740 --> 00:17:36.539 are two types of games, finite games and infinite 00:17:36.539 --> 00:17:39.579 games. A finite game is like football or chess. 00:17:40.029 --> 00:17:43.950 Right. Known players. Fixed rules. Agreed upon 00:17:43.950 --> 00:17:46.750 objective. There is a klong or a finish line. 00:17:46.950 --> 00:17:48.809 At the end of the game, someone has more points. 00:17:49.089 --> 00:17:52.930 They win, you lose. Game over. Simple. Very clear. 00:17:53.190 --> 00:17:55.910 But an infinite game has known and unknown players. 00:17:56.210 --> 00:17:58.829 The rules are changeable. And the objective is 00:17:58.829 --> 00:18:01.670 not to win, but to keep playing. To perpetuate 00:18:01.670 --> 00:18:04.579 the game. Like marriage. Or friendship. You don't 00:18:04.579 --> 00:18:06.779 win a marriage. Exactly. You don't win friendship. 00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:08.920 The goal is to keep the relationship healthy 00:18:08.920 --> 00:18:11.559 and strong so it continues. And Sinek argues 00:18:11.559 --> 00:18:14.579 that business is an infinite game. Yes. There 00:18:14.579 --> 00:18:16.640 is no such thing as winning business. You can't 00:18:16.640 --> 00:18:19.319 win global commerce. The game existed before 00:18:19.319 --> 00:18:22.359 your company and it will exist after. But the 00:18:22.359 --> 00:18:24.940 problem is most executives lead as if they are 00:18:24.940 --> 00:18:27.839 playing a finite game. They are obsessed with 00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:30.400 beating the competition this quarter, being number 00:18:30.400 --> 00:18:33.109 one. in their category and cynic says that mindset 00:18:33.109 --> 00:18:36.329 is destructive if you play a finite game trying 00:18:36.329 --> 00:18:38.170 to win the quarter in the middle of an infinite 00:18:38.170 --> 00:18:41.730 game business you make bad choices you cut r 00:18:41.730 --> 00:18:44.029 d to make your numbers look better you squeeze 00:18:44.029 --> 00:18:47.190 your employees on salaries and benefits you degrade 00:18:47.190 --> 00:18:49.849 your product quality just to hit a number you 00:18:49.849 --> 00:18:51.750 might win the quarter but you eventually run 00:18:51.750 --> 00:18:53.809 out of the will or the resources to keep playing 00:18:53.809 --> 00:18:56.369 you burn down the house to stay warm for a night 00:18:56.670 --> 00:18:59.089 Precisely. In the infinite game, the goal is 00:18:59.089 --> 00:19:01.930 resilience. The goal is to build an organization 00:19:01.930 --> 00:19:04.410 that can survive the ups and downs and outlast 00:19:04.410 --> 00:19:07.410 the others. It ties everything together. It does. 00:19:07.549 --> 00:19:10.950 You need a why to have the stamina for an infinite 00:19:10.950 --> 00:19:14.569 game. You need leaders eat last to have the team 00:19:14.569 --> 00:19:16.970 cohesion to weather the storms. And you need 00:19:16.970 --> 00:19:19.490 the infinite mindset to navigate the strategy. 00:19:19.809 --> 00:19:22.230 It's a very complete ecosystem of thought. He's 00:19:22.230 --> 00:19:24.829 really built a whole world. But speaking of ecosystems, 00:19:25.210 --> 00:19:27.670 we need to talk about the business Sinek has 00:19:27.670 --> 00:19:30.230 built around himself. Because he isn't just writing 00:19:30.230 --> 00:19:32.829 books in a cabin somewhere. Oh, no. He's running 00:19:32.829 --> 00:19:36.049 a machine. A well -oiled machine. And the sources 00:19:36.049 --> 00:19:38.130 give us a glimpse into how that machine is structured. 00:19:38.529 --> 00:19:42.710 First off, publishing. In November 2018, Publishers 00:19:42.710 --> 00:19:45.250 Weekly reported that Sinek started Optimism Press. 00:19:45.529 --> 00:19:48.250 Which is an imprint of Penguin Random House. 00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:51.279 That is a big deal. A really big deal. Having 00:19:51.279 --> 00:19:53.359 your own imprint means you aren't just an author. 00:19:53.539 --> 00:19:57.619 You are a curator. You are a kingmaker. He is 00:19:57.619 --> 00:20:00.700 selecting other voices that align with his worldview 00:20:00.700 --> 00:20:03.500 to elevate under his brand. It's a huge expansion 00:20:03.500 --> 00:20:05.740 of influence. And then there's the optimism company. 00:20:05.819 --> 00:20:08.079 A digital learning platform. This is the scale 00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:11.960 play. Right. He realized he can't fly to every 00:20:11.960 --> 00:20:14.819 company in the world to give a speech. So he 00:20:14.819 --> 00:20:18.650 built a platform to train people digitally. It 00:20:18.650 --> 00:20:21.650 institutionalizes the optimist title. It turns 00:20:21.650 --> 00:20:24.490 it from a personal brand into a corporate entity. 00:20:24.789 --> 00:20:26.609 But what really caught my eye in the research, 00:20:26.730 --> 00:20:28.170 and this is where we get into the institutional 00:20:28.170 --> 00:20:31.470 ties section of our outline, is that he's not 00:20:31.470 --> 00:20:33.390 just operating in the corporate training world. 00:20:33.569 --> 00:20:36.589 He has some serious academic and policy credentials. 00:20:37.049 --> 00:20:39.470 This is a crucial distinction. There are a lot 00:20:39.470 --> 00:20:42.069 of motivational speakers out there, a lot. But 00:20:42.069 --> 00:20:44.089 very few of them are instructors at Columbia 00:20:44.089 --> 00:20:46.329 University. Right. He is an instructor of strategic 00:20:46.329 --> 00:20:49.069 communications at Columbia. That is Ivy League. 00:20:49.210 --> 00:20:52.309 That is serious academic weight. And even more 00:20:52.309 --> 00:20:55.349 significant, in my view, is his connection to 00:20:55.349 --> 00:20:58.710 the Rand Corporation. Yes. The Rand Corporation. 00:20:58.930 --> 00:21:01.930 For listeners who don't know, what is Rand? This 00:21:01.930 --> 00:21:04.950 isn't some fly -by -night consulting firm. No. 00:21:04.990 --> 00:21:08.009 Rand is a global policy think tank. They were 00:21:08.009 --> 00:21:10.269 originally formed to offer research and analysis 00:21:10.269 --> 00:21:12.549 to the U .S. Armed Forces after World War II. 00:21:12.789 --> 00:21:15.069 They deal with national security, international 00:21:15.069 --> 00:21:18.880 affairs, law, business, health. They are the 00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:21.380 heavy hitters of strategic thinking. The people 00:21:21.380 --> 00:21:23.559 who advise governments on incredibly complex 00:21:23.559 --> 00:21:26.839 issues. The very same. And Sinek is listed as 00:21:26.839 --> 00:21:29.660 an adjunct staff member. That validates his standing 00:21:29.660 --> 00:21:31.799 in a way that being a New York Times bestseller 00:21:31.799 --> 00:21:33.890 doesn't. Completely different kind of validation. 00:21:36.190 --> 00:21:46.150 It suggests that his ideas about leadership aren't 00:21:46.150 --> 00:21:48.829 just fluff. They have strategic utility. When 00:21:48.829 --> 00:21:50.730 you are talking about how to lead a military 00:21:50.730 --> 00:21:53.990 unit or a government agency, the stakes are different 00:21:53.990 --> 00:21:56.880 than selling sneakers. And Sinek has managed 00:21:56.880 --> 00:21:59.720 to bridge that gap. He speaks at the UN Global 00:21:59.720 --> 00:22:02.640 Compact Leaders Summit. He's in these rooms where 00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:05.259 global decisions are being discussed. Which makes 00:22:05.259 --> 00:22:07.319 the next part of our deep dive even more interesting. 00:22:07.720 --> 00:22:09.700 Because when you operate at that level, when 00:22:09.700 --> 00:22:11.700 you work with governments and massive institutions, 00:22:12.059 --> 00:22:15.789 things can get... I certainly can. The optics 00:22:15.789 --> 00:22:18.069 get very tricky. We need to talk about the ICEE 00:22:18.069 --> 00:22:20.910 controversy. This is a specific event reported 00:22:20.910 --> 00:22:24.490 in the sources, specifically around June 2018. 00:22:24.769 --> 00:22:26.990 Right. So June 2018, the Young Turks reported 00:22:26.990 --> 00:22:30.910 on a contract. The amount was $98 ,000. And the 00:22:30.910 --> 00:22:33.490 client was U .S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, 00:22:33.609 --> 00:22:36.549 or ICEE. And the nature of the contract was for 00:22:36.549 --> 00:22:39.130 leadership training. Correct. It was a no -bid 00:22:39.130 --> 00:22:41.869 contract, and it is important to note the facilitation 00:22:41.869 --> 00:22:44.759 here. The training was provided by Ernst & Young. 00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:47.000 So let's break this down factually, just based 00:22:47.000 --> 00:22:49.160 on what's in the sources. Ernst & Young is a 00:22:49.160 --> 00:22:51.380 massive professional services network, one of 00:22:51.380 --> 00:22:53.440 the big four. They do consulting, accounting, 00:22:53.680 --> 00:22:56.170 everything. Yes. And typically, large government 00:22:56.170 --> 00:22:59.730 agencies like ICE have standing multi -year, 00:22:59.869 --> 00:23:02.490 multi -million dollar contracts with firms like 00:23:02.490 --> 00:23:05.029 Ernst & Young to provide all sorts of training 00:23:05.029 --> 00:23:07.809 and services. So Sinek's involvement was likely 00:23:07.809 --> 00:23:10.730 part of a broader package. It was likely a specific 00:23:10.730 --> 00:23:13.230 request fulfilled through that existing channel. 00:23:13.490 --> 00:23:16.250 It's not necessarily Simon Sinek knocking on 00:23:16.250 --> 00:23:18.789 ICE's door saying, hire me. It's more likely 00:23:18.789 --> 00:23:21.569 ICE telling Ernst & Young. We want leadership 00:23:21.569 --> 00:23:23.849 training. Get us the Y guy. But the headline, 00:23:24.130 --> 00:23:28.990 $98 ,000 contract with IC. That lands differently 00:23:28.990 --> 00:23:31.450 depending on the political climate. And 2018 00:23:31.450 --> 00:23:34.470 was a very, very heated time regarding immigration 00:23:34.470 --> 00:23:37.009 policy in the U .S. It was. The family separation 00:23:37.009 --> 00:23:39.230 policy was miniature news. And this highlights 00:23:39.230 --> 00:23:41.289 the tension we mentioned earlier. When you position 00:23:41.289 --> 00:23:43.289 yourself as a leadership expert and your mission 00:23:43.289 --> 00:23:45.190 is to help leaders inspire action and create 00:23:45.190 --> 00:23:48.529 safety, who do you work with? Right. Do you only 00:23:48.529 --> 00:23:50.769 train leaders of organizations you agree with 00:23:50.769 --> 00:23:53.529 politically? Or do you believe that every organization 00:23:53.529 --> 00:23:56.109 needs better leadership? That is the central 00:23:56.109 --> 00:23:58.329 question. From a strictly professional standpoint, 00:23:58.750 --> 00:24:01.529 leadership training is a service. It is a commodity. 00:24:02.230 --> 00:24:05.029 Corporations buy it, nonprofits buy it, and yes, 00:24:05.250 --> 00:24:07.650 government agencies, including law enforcement 00:24:07.650 --> 00:24:10.690 and border control, buy it. They have managers 00:24:10.690 --> 00:24:13.250 and teams just like anyone else. And arguably, 00:24:13.390 --> 00:24:15.829 one could say that agencies with high -stress, 00:24:15.910 --> 00:24:18.690 high -stakes environments need concepts like 00:24:18.690 --> 00:24:21.890 leadership and circle of safety more than anyone. 00:24:22.250 --> 00:24:24.490 That is one perspective. If you believe in the 00:24:24.490 --> 00:24:27.470 leaders eat last philosophy, that leaders should 00:24:27.470 --> 00:24:29.650 protect their people and create a moral circle, 00:24:29.829 --> 00:24:32.410 then teaching that to a government agency could 00:24:32.410 --> 00:24:34.609 be seen as an attempt to improve the culture 00:24:34.609 --> 00:24:36.930 from within. But on the flip side, from another 00:24:36.930 --> 00:24:39.470 perspective, taking the money can be seen as 00:24:39.470 --> 00:24:42.430 an endorsement or at least a normalization of 00:24:42.430 --> 00:24:44.970 the agency itself and its policies at the time. 00:24:45.329 --> 00:24:47.950 Precisely. And that is why it became a news story. 00:24:48.440 --> 00:24:50.599 When you are a public figure preaching optimism 00:24:50.599 --> 00:24:53.079 and why, your client list becomes a statement 00:24:53.079 --> 00:24:54.819 of its own whether you intend it to be or not. 00:24:55.039 --> 00:24:56.859 It's a fascinating case study in the business 00:24:56.859 --> 00:24:59.160 of philosophy. You can have these pure ideals, 00:24:59.319 --> 00:25:01.359 but when they hit the real world of government 00:25:01.359 --> 00:25:04.019 contracting, it gets messy. The lines get blurred. 00:25:04.259 --> 00:25:06.720 It does. And yet, looking at the source material, 00:25:07.019 --> 00:25:09.700 this didn't seem to derail his career. He continued 00:25:09.700 --> 00:25:11.900 to publish, continued to speak, continued to 00:25:11.900 --> 00:25:14.380 build the optimism company. Which suggests that 00:25:14.380 --> 00:25:17.220 his core audience, the people playing the infinite 00:25:17.220 --> 00:25:20.369 game, Maybe he saw it as just another move on 00:25:20.369 --> 00:25:22.710 the board. Or maybe they separated the teacher 00:25:22.710 --> 00:25:25.369 from the student. Or perhaps they recognize that 00:25:25.369 --> 00:25:28.150 the message of human -centric leadership is universal, 00:25:28.289 --> 00:25:30.589 even if the application of it happens in controversial 00:25:30.589 --> 00:25:33.789 spaces. So we have covered the globetrotting 00:25:33.789 --> 00:25:36.769 childhood, the anthropology degree that changed 00:25:36.769 --> 00:25:40.089 everything, the ad agency days, the viral TED 00:25:40.089 --> 00:25:43.329 talk, the whole library of books, and the institutional 00:25:43.329 --> 00:25:46.529 clout. It is quite a resume, a very unconventional 00:25:46.529 --> 00:25:49.170 one. When you look at it all together. What is 00:25:49.170 --> 00:25:51.269 the through line for you? What connects the kid 00:25:51.269 --> 00:25:53.529 in Johannesburg to the instructor at Columbia? 00:25:53.710 --> 00:25:56.390 For me, it is the role of the observer. The observer. 00:25:56.569 --> 00:25:58.710 Yes. Whether he was a kid trying to figure out 00:25:58.710 --> 00:26:01.490 the rules of a new school in a new country or 00:26:01.490 --> 00:26:04.289 an anthropologist studying a culture or a consultant 00:26:04.289 --> 00:26:07.289 studying a corporation, Sinek has always been 00:26:07.289 --> 00:26:09.390 the one standing slightly outside the circle 00:26:09.390 --> 00:26:12.589 looking in. And pointing out the patterns that 00:26:12.589 --> 00:26:14.930 the people inside the circle can't see. Exactly. 00:26:15.009 --> 00:26:16.970 The people inside are too busy. They're too busy 00:26:16.970 --> 00:26:19.549 playing the finite game. They're too busy worrying 00:26:19.549 --> 00:26:21.849 about the quarterly earnings or the daily metrics. 00:26:22.349 --> 00:26:24.549 Cynics stands outside and says, wait a minute. 00:26:24.650 --> 00:26:27.309 Look at the biology. Look at the trust. Look 00:26:27.309 --> 00:26:30.470 at the why he simplifies the complexity of human 00:26:30.470 --> 00:26:33.230 behavior into something we can actually understand 00:26:33.230 --> 00:26:36.589 and use. He creates a map. The golden circle 00:26:36.589 --> 00:26:39.230 is a map. The circle of safety is a map. The 00:26:39.230 --> 00:26:41.970 infinite game is a map. He is a cartographer 00:26:41.970 --> 00:26:44.349 of leadership. That is a great way to put it. 00:26:44.589 --> 00:26:46.910 A cartographer of leadership. And that ties back 00:26:46.910 --> 00:26:49.890 to why he calls himself an optimist. An optimist 00:26:49.890 --> 00:26:52.829 isn't someone who ignores reality. An optimist 00:26:52.829 --> 00:26:55.309 is someone who sees a path forward, is someone 00:26:55.309 --> 00:26:57.609 who believes that if we understand the rules 00:26:57.609 --> 00:27:00.390 of the game, the real rules, the human rules, 00:27:00.569 --> 00:27:02.829 we can build organizations that actually work 00:27:02.829 --> 00:27:05.109 for people. And that is a message that clearly 00:27:05.109 --> 00:27:07.869 resonates whether you are running a startup or 00:27:07.869 --> 00:27:10.390 a superpower. Before we wrap up, I want to leave 00:27:10.390 --> 00:27:12.369 our listener with a thought. We talked about 00:27:12.369 --> 00:27:15.039 the infinite game. The idea that you're not playing 00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:17.500 to win. You're playing to keep playing. Yes. 00:27:18.200 --> 00:27:22.140 A really powerful idea. So, listener, here is 00:27:22.140 --> 00:27:25.160 the question for you today. If Cynic's philosophy 00:27:25.160 --> 00:27:28.119 is about the long haul playing for the infinite 00:27:28.119 --> 00:27:30.779 game rather than the short -term win, how does 00:27:30.779 --> 00:27:33.019 that apply to your own career right now? It is 00:27:33.019 --> 00:27:35.519 a vital question. A tough one to answer, honestly, 00:27:35.599 --> 00:27:38.880 sometimes. Are you making decisions today just 00:27:38.880 --> 00:27:42.380 to win the week? To get the promotion? to beat 00:27:42.380 --> 00:27:44.920 the guy in the next cubicle? Or are you making 00:27:44.920 --> 00:27:46.920 decisions that allow you to stay in the game? 00:27:47.599 --> 00:27:49.839 Are you building the relationships and the reputation 00:27:49.839 --> 00:27:52.220 that will matter 10 years from now? Are you focused 00:27:52.220 --> 00:27:54.400 on the score or are you focused on the purpose? 00:27:54.700 --> 00:27:57.440 Because the score resets every quarter. The purpose 00:27:57.440 --> 00:27:59.980 endures. That is the takeaway. Stop looking at 00:27:59.980 --> 00:28:02.039 the scoreboard and start looking at the horizon. 00:28:02.339 --> 00:28:04.859 And remember, understanding your own why is the 00:28:04.859 --> 00:28:06.819 first step to staying on that path. It's the 00:28:06.819 --> 00:28:09.599 fuel for the infinite game. This has been a fascinating 00:28:09.599 --> 00:28:12.390 deep dive. From Wimbledon to the world stage, 00:28:12.769 --> 00:28:16.609 Simon Sinek's journey is a master class in observation 00:28:16.609 --> 00:28:20.130 and communication. It truly is. A lesson in finding 00:28:20.130 --> 00:28:22.210 your niche. Thanks for diving in with us. We 00:28:22.210 --> 00:28:24.089 will catch you on the next one. Keep asking why. 00:28:24.250 --> 00:28:26.430 And keep playing the infinite game. See you next 00:28:26.430 --> 00:28:26.650 time.