WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.740 OK, let's just let's unpack this. We are living 00:00:02.740 --> 00:00:06.559 in a moment where the pressure I mean, the external 00:00:06.559 --> 00:00:09.560 pressure to look completely bulletproof is just 00:00:09.560 --> 00:00:11.740 at an all time high. Oh, absolutely. It's everywhere. 00:00:12.019 --> 00:00:14.720 You look at social media, you look at, you know, 00:00:14.720 --> 00:00:17.679 the corporate world, modern politics. It's all 00:00:17.679 --> 00:00:21.519 about the armor. It's the curated image. They 00:00:21.519 --> 00:00:23.940 never let them see you sweat. Whole mentality. 00:00:24.199 --> 00:00:26.359 I feel like we're just obsessed with competence, 00:00:26.679 --> 00:00:29.000 with looking like we have it all together and 00:00:29.000 --> 00:00:31.899 just never, ever missing a single step. It really 00:00:31.899 --> 00:00:34.079 is the default setting for modern life, isn't 00:00:34.079 --> 00:00:36.340 it? Yeah. I mean, we are conditioned probably 00:00:36.340 --> 00:00:39.600 from a very young age to believe that competence 00:00:39.600 --> 00:00:42.320 just looks like invulnerability. Right. If you 00:00:42.320 --> 00:00:44.420 have questions, well, you're weak. If you have 00:00:44.420 --> 00:00:46.179 feelings, you're messy. If you admit you were 00:00:46.179 --> 00:00:48.429 wrong about something. Yeah. You're finished. 00:00:48.570 --> 00:00:50.929 Yeah. It's game over. It's game over. We treat 00:00:50.929 --> 00:00:53.969 emotions like these liabilities that need to 00:00:53.969 --> 00:00:56.210 be managed or just hidden away instead of what 00:00:56.210 --> 00:00:57.770 they are, which is just part of our humanity. 00:00:58.369 --> 00:01:01.289 Exactly. And yet the subject of our deep dive 00:01:01.289 --> 00:01:04.730 today has built, I mean, you could argue one 00:01:04.730 --> 00:01:07.069 of the most significant intellectual and cultural 00:01:07.069 --> 00:01:09.670 empires of the 21st century by arguing the exact 00:01:09.670 --> 00:01:12.469 opposite. We are talking about someone who looked 00:01:12.469 --> 00:01:14.870 at the things we are most terrified of, shame, 00:01:15.150 --> 00:01:18.930 fear, being seen as less than, and used hard 00:01:18.930 --> 00:01:21.329 data to prove that those are actually the birthplace 00:01:21.329 --> 00:01:23.750 of everything we say we want. She's basically 00:01:23.750 --> 00:01:25.349 telling us that the armor we're all wearing. 00:01:25.950 --> 00:01:28.189 it's actually suffocating us it is a paradox 00:01:28.189 --> 00:01:31.019 isn't it it's a paradox that shouldn't work But 00:01:31.019 --> 00:01:33.700 it so clearly does. Yeah. We are, of course, 00:01:33.739 --> 00:01:36.540 talking about Cassandra Brené Brown. Most people 00:01:36.540 --> 00:01:38.239 just know her as Brené. And to be honest, her 00:01:38.239 --> 00:01:40.180 footprint is just inescapable at this point. 00:01:40.239 --> 00:01:42.780 We're talking about a viral TED talk that basically 00:01:42.780 --> 00:01:45.180 broke the Internet. Right. Netflix specials, 00:01:45.180 --> 00:01:47.260 bestselling books that dominate the charts for 00:01:47.260 --> 00:01:50.680 like years at a time. And these high level consulting 00:01:50.680 --> 00:01:53.799 gigs where she's telling Fortune 50 CEOs how 00:01:53.799 --> 00:01:56.159 to run their companies. I mean, she's everywhere. 00:01:56.760 --> 00:01:58.879 She really has become a household name, but I 00:01:58.879 --> 00:02:02.099 think because she is so ubiquitous now, you know, 00:02:02.120 --> 00:02:04.359 because we see the quotes on Instagram and the 00:02:04.359 --> 00:02:08.250 little clips on TikTok, it's... it's easy to 00:02:08.250 --> 00:02:10.610 dismiss her as just another motivational speaker. 00:02:10.870 --> 00:02:12.909 Totally. Or to think this is just, you know, 00:02:12.909 --> 00:02:15.669 feel -good fluff. Yeah. There is a real risk 00:02:15.669 --> 00:02:18.610 that when someone becomes that famous, the nuance 00:02:18.610 --> 00:02:21.090 of their actual work gets completely lost in 00:02:21.090 --> 00:02:23.430 the memes. That is exactly the misconception 00:02:23.430 --> 00:02:25.870 we are here to dismantle today. The mission for 00:02:25.870 --> 00:02:28.210 this deep dive is to strip away the buzzwords. 00:02:29.319 --> 00:02:31.599 I really want to move past the pop culture version 00:02:31.599 --> 00:02:33.780 of vulnerability and actually look at the engine 00:02:33.780 --> 00:02:36.639 under the hood. We need to understand the academic 00:02:36.639 --> 00:02:39.379 rigor, the specific methodology, and the raw 00:02:39.379 --> 00:02:41.439 data that took a social worker from Houston and 00:02:41.439 --> 00:02:44.020 turned her into a global phenomenon. I want to 00:02:44.020 --> 00:02:46.319 know how she bridges that gap between hard data 00:02:46.319 --> 00:02:49.479 and messy human feelings. And to do that, we're 00:02:49.479 --> 00:02:52.139 going to stick to the facts. We're pulling today's 00:02:52.139 --> 00:02:54.240 insights from a comprehensive profile of her 00:02:54.240 --> 00:02:56.719 life, her career trajectory and her bibliography. 00:02:56.780 --> 00:02:59.060 And we're specifically relying on the detailed 00:02:59.060 --> 00:03:01.719 account in her Wikipedia entry and the associated 00:03:01.719 --> 00:03:04.259 source links. Good. We are going to ground the 00:03:04.259 --> 00:03:07.360 feelings talk in the actual biography and the 00:03:07.360 --> 00:03:12.080 academic record. Because at her core, she isn't 00:03:12.080 --> 00:03:14.599 a guru. Yeah. She's a researcher. I love that 00:03:14.599 --> 00:03:16.400 approach because she calls herself a researcher 00:03:16.400 --> 00:03:19.159 storyteller, right? Right. She isn't just some 00:03:19.159 --> 00:03:21.780 guru on a mountaintop just guessing about life. 00:03:21.879 --> 00:03:26.219 She's bridging that gap between cold, hard data 00:03:26.219 --> 00:03:30.159 and the messy reality of being human. She's saying, 00:03:30.240 --> 00:03:31.979 look, I'm not telling you this because I feel 00:03:31.979 --> 00:03:34.039 it. I'm telling you this because I measured it. 00:03:34.219 --> 00:03:38.039 That is the key to her entire career. She is 00:03:38.039 --> 00:03:40.340 such a unique figure because she transitioned 00:03:40.340 --> 00:03:43.680 from, I mean, total obscurity in academia studying 00:03:43.680 --> 00:03:46.379 topics that, quite frankly, nobody wanted to 00:03:46.379 --> 00:03:48.860 touch to the mainstream spotlight. And in doing 00:03:48.860 --> 00:03:51.319 so, she fundamentally changed the vocabulary 00:03:51.319 --> 00:03:54.259 we use to talk about leadership, parenting, connection. 00:03:54.340 --> 00:03:57.159 Before her, shame wasn't a word you'd ever hear 00:03:57.159 --> 00:03:59.219 in a boardroom. Now it's part of the executive 00:03:59.219 --> 00:04:02.039 lexicon. And we have some really surprising details 00:04:02.039 --> 00:04:04.360 to get to later in this discussion. We found 00:04:04.360 --> 00:04:06.520 connections to a speech by Teddy Roosevelt, some 00:04:06.520 --> 00:04:10.139 very specific and surprising sports loyalties 00:04:10.139 --> 00:04:12.960 that I did not see coming. Not at all. And this 00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:16.259 is my personal favorite, a cameo in a comedy 00:04:16.259 --> 00:04:18.639 movie that involves a lot of wine. It's a colorful 00:04:18.639 --> 00:04:22.639 life, absolutely. But to understand how she got 00:04:22.639 --> 00:04:26.079 to the movie cameos. We have to start with the 00:04:26.079 --> 00:04:28.680 credentials. Yes. We have to establish why we 00:04:28.680 --> 00:04:30.360 should even listen to her in the first place. 00:04:30.639 --> 00:04:33.300 Because if we don't respect the foundation, the 00:04:33.300 --> 00:04:35.519 house she built just doesn't make sense. Right. 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:38.120 Let's look at that academic foundation, because 00:04:38.120 --> 00:04:39.939 I think a lot of people assume she just wrote 00:04:39.939 --> 00:04:42.519 a self -help book and got lucky. But she is a 00:04:42.519 --> 00:04:44.620 heavy hitter in the university world. This isn't 00:04:44.620 --> 00:04:47.180 a hobby for her. She is. And this is not a weekend 00:04:47.180 --> 00:04:48.540 certification we're talking about. Currently, 00:04:48.600 --> 00:04:51.000 she holds the Huffington Foundation's Brene Brown 00:04:51.000 --> 00:04:53.920 Endowed Chair at the University of Houston's 00:04:53.920 --> 00:04:56.339 Graduate College of Social Work. OK, let's pause 00:04:56.339 --> 00:04:58.360 on that title for a second. An endowed chair 00:04:58.360 --> 00:05:02.459 for listeners who aren't in academia. Can you 00:05:02.459 --> 00:05:04.600 can you translate that? What does that actually 00:05:04.600 --> 00:05:07.339 signify? Yeah, it's a big deal. In the academic 00:05:07.339 --> 00:05:09.740 world, an endowed chair is one of the highest 00:05:09.740 --> 00:05:12.600 honors you can possibly achieve. It means that 00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:15.300 a donor or a foundation, in this case the Huffington 00:05:15.300 --> 00:05:18.060 Foundation, has donated a significant amount 00:05:18.060 --> 00:05:21.279 of money specifically to fund her position and 00:05:21.279 --> 00:05:23.939 her research. Wow. It signals that the university 00:05:23.939 --> 00:05:28.220 and the donor class view her work as vital and 00:05:28.220 --> 00:05:32.959 permanent. It comes with prestige, funding, and 00:05:32.959 --> 00:05:35.300 a really high level of autonomy. It basically 00:05:35.300 --> 00:05:37.740 says, we believe in your work so much, we are 00:05:37.740 --> 00:05:39.500 going to guarantee it has a home here forever. 00:05:39.720 --> 00:05:41.860 Okay, so she's at the absolute top of the food 00:05:41.860 --> 00:05:44.079 chain in social work. But that's not the only 00:05:44.079 --> 00:05:46.319 place she's teaching, is it? This was the part 00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:47.920 of the research that actually made me do a double 00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:50.620 take. No, it's not. She is also a visiting professor 00:05:50.620 --> 00:05:52.959 in management at the McCombs School of Business 00:05:52.959 --> 00:05:55.620 at the University of Texas at Austin. Okay, so 00:05:55.620 --> 00:05:57.639 she's a social work professor dealing with emotions, 00:05:57.699 --> 00:06:00.600 human struggle. But she's teaching management 00:06:00.600 --> 00:06:03.000 at a business school. That feels like a collision 00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:04.920 of two completely different worlds. It really 00:06:04.920 --> 00:06:07.579 does. Usually, you know, social work is over 00:06:07.579 --> 00:06:09.899 here saving the world and business schools over 00:06:09.899 --> 00:06:12.480 there making money. It does seem like a crossover 00:06:12.480 --> 00:06:15.259 episode, doesn't it? But this is actually a critical 00:06:15.259 --> 00:06:18.300 data point for understanding her impact. For 00:06:18.300 --> 00:06:21.259 decades, the corporate world and business schools 00:06:21.259 --> 00:06:23.860 viewed management through the lens of, like, 00:06:23.959 --> 00:06:27.519 efficiency, finance, and strategy. Hard skills. 00:06:27.819 --> 00:06:29.860 Sure. The idea was that you check your emotions 00:06:29.860 --> 00:06:33.189 at the door when you clock in. Right. The bottom 00:06:33.189 --> 00:06:35.370 line is just business. It's not personal. That 00:06:35.370 --> 00:06:38.069 whole thing. Exactly. Anything related to empathy, 00:06:38.250 --> 00:06:41.069 shame or vulnerability was just dismissed as 00:06:41.069 --> 00:06:44.089 soft skills. It was seen as completely irrelevant 00:06:44.089 --> 00:06:46.250 to the profit margin. Right. But what happened 00:06:46.250 --> 00:06:47.850 is that companies started realizing that the 00:06:47.850 --> 00:06:50.720 hard skills weren't enough. You can have the 00:06:50.720 --> 00:06:52.100 best strategy in the world, but if your company 00:06:52.100 --> 00:06:56.160 culture is toxic, you fail. The fact that a top 00:06:56.160 --> 00:06:58.800 -tier business school like McCombs brings in 00:06:58.800 --> 00:07:01.459 a social worker to teach management signals a 00:07:01.459 --> 00:07:04.040 massive shift. It suggests that the business 00:07:04.040 --> 00:07:06.759 world is finally realizing that you cannot optimize 00:07:06.759 --> 00:07:09.339 an organization if you don't understand the humans 00:07:09.339 --> 00:07:11.879 inside it. That's a really profound point. It's 00:07:11.879 --> 00:07:14.180 like they realized the spreadsheet doesn't work 00:07:14.180 --> 00:07:16.699 if the people entering the numbers are burned 00:07:16.699 --> 00:07:20.379 out or... Or just terrified. Precisely. And her 00:07:20.379 --> 00:07:22.459 background is purely in understanding those people. 00:07:23.019 --> 00:07:25.259 She is a Texan through and through, education 00:07:25.259 --> 00:07:27.639 -wise. She did her undergraduate work at the 00:07:27.639 --> 00:07:30.040 University of Texas at Austin, earning her Bachelor 00:07:30.040 --> 00:07:33.339 of Social Work in 1995. Okay. Then she moved 00:07:33.339 --> 00:07:35.040 over to the University of Houston for her Master 00:07:35.040 --> 00:07:37.839 of Social Work in 1996, and she stayed there 00:07:37.839 --> 00:07:40.319 to grind out her Ph .D. in social work, which 00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:43.860 she completed in 2002. A Ph .D. is no joke. That 00:07:43.860 --> 00:07:46.540 is years and years of grueling work. And looking 00:07:46.540 --> 00:07:48.860 at the notes here, the title of her PhD thesis 00:07:48.860 --> 00:07:51.800 is, well, it's a mouthful. It's very academic. 00:07:52.000 --> 00:07:55.220 It is. The title is Acompañar, a grounded theory 00:07:55.220 --> 00:07:57.459 of developing, maintaining, and assessing relevance 00:07:57.459 --> 00:08:00.560 in professional helping. Acompañar. That's Spanish, 00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:02.879 right? Yes. It means to accompany. That seems 00:08:02.879 --> 00:08:05.139 really significant. The whole idea that helping 00:08:05.139 --> 00:08:07.259 isn't about fixing someone, but accompanying 00:08:07.259 --> 00:08:10.060 them. It feels like a total shift in power dynamics. 00:08:10.500 --> 00:08:12.759 It threads through everything she does later. 00:08:13.180 --> 00:08:15.680 She moves away from that expert model where the 00:08:15.680 --> 00:08:17.980 doctor fixes the patient to a model of connection. 00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:21.040 But the phrase I really want to drill down on 00:08:21.040 --> 00:08:24.300 from that title is grounded theory. Yes, I've 00:08:24.300 --> 00:08:26.100 heard her mention this in interviews, but I've 00:08:26.100 --> 00:08:27.860 never really understood it. It sounds, I don't 00:08:27.860 --> 00:08:29.519 know, it sounds like something involving electrical 00:08:29.519 --> 00:08:33.500 wiring. What does grounded theory actually mean 00:08:33.500 --> 00:08:36.679 in a research context? This is maybe the most 00:08:36.679 --> 00:08:38.539 important thing to understand about her method. 00:08:39.019 --> 00:08:41.960 In traditional science, say, medical research 00:08:41.960 --> 00:08:44.519 or physics, you often start with a hypothesis. 00:08:44.779 --> 00:08:47.720 You have a guess. Okay. I think drug A will cure 00:08:47.720 --> 00:08:50.779 disease B. Then you run an experiment to prove 00:08:50.779 --> 00:08:53.639 or disprove your guess. You are testing a theory 00:08:53.639 --> 00:08:55.539 you already have. Okay. So you start with the 00:08:55.539 --> 00:08:57.399 idea and then you see if the world matches it. 00:08:57.519 --> 00:09:00.899 Right. Grounded theory works in reverse. You 00:09:00.899 --> 00:09:03.299 do not start with a hypothesis. You start with 00:09:03.299 --> 00:09:05.500 zero assumptions. You start with the data. In 00:09:05.500 --> 00:09:08.820 her case, the data is people's stories. She interviews 00:09:08.820 --> 00:09:12.059 hundreds, then thousands of people. She asks 00:09:12.059 --> 00:09:14.059 them these really open -ended questions like, 00:09:14.159 --> 00:09:17.600 tell me about a time you felt disconnected. She 00:09:17.600 --> 00:09:20.139 codes their answers, looking for patterns and 00:09:20.139 --> 00:09:23.440 themes. The theory emerges from it is grounded 00:09:23.440 --> 00:09:25.960 in the data. So she didn't go into her office 00:09:25.960 --> 00:09:28.120 one day and think, I bet vulnerability is the 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:30.779 key to courage. Let me go prove it. Absolutely 00:09:30.779 --> 00:09:33.139 not. In fact, if you listen to her early stories, 00:09:33.320 --> 00:09:35.919 the data often contradicted what she wanted to 00:09:35.919 --> 00:09:38.870 find. She has famously said she wanted to find 00:09:38.870 --> 00:09:41.289 that competent people had everything under control 00:09:41.289 --> 00:09:43.889 and kept their emotions locked down. Right, because 00:09:43.889 --> 00:09:46.149 that's what we're all taught. Exactly. And the 00:09:46.149 --> 00:09:49.470 data told her the exact opposite, that the most 00:09:49.470 --> 00:09:51.649 competent, wholehearted people were the ones 00:09:51.649 --> 00:09:54.070 who admitted they didn't have control. Grounded 00:09:54.070 --> 00:09:56.370 theory forces the researcher to listen to the 00:09:56.370 --> 00:09:58.649 lived experience of the subjects, even when it 00:09:58.649 --> 00:10:01.190 ruins their own preconceived notions. That makes 00:10:01.190 --> 00:10:03.350 her work feel so much more valid to me. It's 00:10:03.350 --> 00:10:05.450 not just her opinion or her philosophy. It's 00:10:05.450 --> 00:10:08.169 essentially a report on what thousands of human 00:10:08.169 --> 00:10:10.269 beings have told her about their lives. It's 00:10:10.269 --> 00:10:13.710 data with a soul. Exactly. And she guides her 00:10:13.710 --> 00:10:16.110 social work students in this methodology now. 00:10:16.190 --> 00:10:19.539 It's all about... Letting the reality of the 00:10:19.539 --> 00:10:22.419 human experience dictate the conclusion rather 00:10:22.419 --> 00:10:25.320 than trying to stuff human beings into a theoretical 00:10:25.320 --> 00:10:28.259 box you built in a faculty lounge. Yeah. It's 00:10:28.259 --> 00:10:30.320 incredibly rigorous because you can't fix the 00:10:30.320 --> 00:10:33.000 patterns. If 500 people say the same thing in 00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:35.440 different words, you have to pay attention. So 00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:39.720 she spends the early 2000s just. doing this heavy 00:10:39.720 --> 00:10:42.340 lifting. She's in the trenches of academia. And 00:10:42.340 --> 00:10:44.980 she focuses on what we call the big five topics 00:10:44.980 --> 00:10:47.820 in the source material. Yes. Courage, vulnerability, 00:10:48.340 --> 00:10:51.440 shame, empathy, and leadership. It's like the 00:10:51.440 --> 00:10:53.460 emotional pentathlon. Those are some big, heavy 00:10:53.460 --> 00:10:56.139 words. They are. And her goal with all of these, 00:10:56.179 --> 00:10:57.779 whether she's looking at shame or leadership, 00:10:57.899 --> 00:11:00.419 is to understand human connection. How does it 00:11:00.419 --> 00:11:03.019 work? Why does it break? And maybe most importantly, 00:11:03.179 --> 00:11:05.840 how do we repair it when it's broken? Because 00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:08.960 she found that connection is... It's why we're 00:11:08.960 --> 00:11:10.960 here. It's what gives purpose and meaning to 00:11:10.960 --> 00:11:14.279 our lives. So picture this. It's the late 2000s. 00:11:14.299 --> 00:11:16.799 She's a respected academic. She's publishing 00:11:16.799 --> 00:11:19.360 papers with titles like Feminist Standpoint Theory. 00:11:19.679 --> 00:11:22.960 She's doing the work, but she's not famous. Not 00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:25.000 at all. She's not on Oprah's speed dial. She's 00:11:25.000 --> 00:11:27.240 just a professor in Houston grading papers. She 00:11:27.240 --> 00:11:30.340 is working in relative obscurity. She's known 00:11:30.340 --> 00:11:32.740 within the very specific circles of social work 00:11:32.740 --> 00:11:35.240 research, but the general public has no idea 00:11:35.240 --> 00:11:38.830 who she is. And then... 2010 happens. The tipping 00:11:38.830 --> 00:11:41.870 point. The TEDx talk. The power of vulnerability. 00:11:42.149 --> 00:11:44.610 We have to stop here because this video essentially 00:11:44.610 --> 00:11:46.610 changed the architecture of the Internet and 00:11:46.610 --> 00:11:48.769 the self -help world. It's like the moon landing 00:11:48.769 --> 00:11:51.269 of social psychology. It really was. And the 00:11:51.269 --> 00:11:53.850 context here is so important. This was a TEDx 00:11:53.850 --> 00:11:57.330 talk. TEDx events are local. independently organized 00:11:57.330 --> 00:12:00.129 events. Right. Not the big main stage one. Not 00:12:00.129 --> 00:12:02.669 the big main stage TED conference in Vancouver 00:12:02.669 --> 00:12:05.110 or Edinburgh where Bill Gates is speaking. They're 00:12:05.110 --> 00:12:07.909 usually small community affairs. For a local 00:12:07.909 --> 00:12:10.009 talk filmed in Houston to blow up the way this 00:12:10.009 --> 00:12:12.809 did is completely unprecedented. The source says 00:12:12.809 --> 00:12:15.370 it is one of the five most viewed TED talks of 00:12:15.370 --> 00:12:18.450 all time. That puts her up there with Sir Ken 00:12:18.450 --> 00:12:20.529 Robinson and the biggest thinkers on the planet. 00:12:21.110 --> 00:12:24.110 Millions and millions of views. Why do you think 00:12:24.110 --> 00:12:27.940 it hit so hard? Why this specific talk at that 00:12:27.940 --> 00:12:30.240 specific time? Well, according to the source 00:12:30.240 --> 00:12:32.899 material, the content was incredibly dense. It 00:12:32.899 --> 00:12:35.460 summarized a decade of that grounded theory research 00:12:35.460 --> 00:12:37.679 we just talked about. So the value was there. 00:12:37.720 --> 00:12:40.639 The intellectual protein was there. But the key 00:12:40.639 --> 00:12:43.799 was the delivery. She framed these really heavy, 00:12:43.820 --> 00:12:47.259 scary discoveries in self -deprecating and personal 00:12:47.259 --> 00:12:49.500 terms. Yeah, I remember watching it. She jokes 00:12:49.500 --> 00:12:51.299 about her breakdown. She calls it a spiritual 00:12:51.299 --> 00:12:53.299 awakening that says, you know, it felt like a 00:12:53.299 --> 00:12:54.659 breakdown. She talks about trying to control 00:12:54.659 --> 00:12:56.460 everything with her research and just failing. 00:12:56.639 --> 00:12:58.960 And the shoes. She talks about buying a distinctively 00:12:58.960 --> 00:13:03.340 uncool pair of shoes. She was just so real. That's 00:13:03.340 --> 00:13:06.080 the magic trick. It wasn't a lecture from a professor 00:13:06.080 --> 00:13:09.600 on a pedestal. It was confession. Reggie Ugo 00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:11.860 from The New York Times described that talk as 00:13:11.860 --> 00:13:14.960 the moment that gave the world a new star of 00:13:14.960 --> 00:13:17.580 social psychology. It shifted her from being 00:13:17.580 --> 00:13:20.379 a professor to being a public figure because 00:13:20.379 --> 00:13:22.799 she modeled the very thing she was teaching. 00:13:23.340 --> 00:13:26.200 She was telling us that vulnerability is strength, 00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:29.960 and she proved it by being terrified and vulnerable 00:13:29.960 --> 00:13:33.019 on that stage. She wasn't just presenting the 00:13:33.019 --> 00:13:36.659 data. She was the data. Which is incredibly meta. 00:13:37.129 --> 00:13:38.750 If you stop and think about it. And naturally, 00:13:38.850 --> 00:13:41.409 when you have a hit of that magnitude, the world 00:13:41.409 --> 00:13:44.950 demands a sequel. People wanted more. And she 00:13:44.950 --> 00:13:48.190 gave them one. In 2012, she did a second talk 00:13:48.190 --> 00:13:50.879 called Listening to Shame. And in that one, she 00:13:50.879 --> 00:13:53.600 actually addresses the elephant in the room, 00:13:53.679 --> 00:13:56.279 the aftermath of the first talk. Because going 00:13:56.279 --> 00:13:58.279 viral isn't all sunshine and rainbows, right? 00:13:58.360 --> 00:14:00.379 She does. She talks about how her life changed 00:14:00.379 --> 00:14:03.039 after going viral, how exposed she felt. She 00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:05.519 calls it a vulnerability hangover. I know that 00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:07.019 feeling. Do you know that feeling when you share 00:14:07.019 --> 00:14:08.440 too much and then you just want to hide under 00:14:08.440 --> 00:14:10.600 the covers for a week? She had that on a global 00:14:10.600 --> 00:14:14.340 scale. But she uses that to go deeper. she connects 00:14:14.340 --> 00:14:17.000 shame directly to vulnerability she makes the 00:14:17.000 --> 00:14:19.159 argument that you cannot really be vulnerable 00:14:19.159 --> 00:14:22.340 if you are paralyzed by shame shame is the fear 00:14:22.340 --> 00:14:24.860 of disconnection it's that fear that if people 00:14:24.860 --> 00:14:26.940 know the truth about you they won't love you 00:14:26.940 --> 00:14:29.000 there's another talk mentioned in the notes that 00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:30.860 i hadn't heard of as much but when i read the 00:14:30.860 --> 00:14:34.480 summary the concept just It just floored me. 00:14:34.600 --> 00:14:37.580 It was from 2010 as well at TEDxKC. It's called 00:14:37.580 --> 00:14:40.500 The Price of Invulnerability. This is such a 00:14:40.500 --> 00:14:42.159 crucial piece of the puzzle. I'm glad you brought 00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:45.740 it up. The core concept here is numbing. This 00:14:45.740 --> 00:14:47.700 is the idea that you can't pick and choose what 00:14:47.700 --> 00:14:50.159 you feel, right? Because I feel like I try to 00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:51.759 do that all the time. I'll take the happiness, 00:14:51.919 --> 00:14:54.500 hold the sadness, please. Correct. It's a profound 00:14:54.500 --> 00:14:57.720 biological and psychological insight. We often 00:14:57.720 --> 00:14:59.820 try to numb the difficult feelings. We don't 00:14:59.820 --> 00:15:02.419 want to feel fear, shame, disappointment, or 00:15:02.419 --> 00:15:05.120 grief. So we use numbing agents. And in our culture, 00:15:05.139 --> 00:15:07.299 we have an endless supply of those. Alcohol, 00:15:07.460 --> 00:15:09.899 food, endless scrolling on phones, being busy 00:15:09.899 --> 00:15:13.600 as a status symbol, shopping. Exactly. We stay 00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:16.220 busy so we don't have to feel. But her research 00:15:16.220 --> 00:15:20.639 shows a terrifying correlation. You cannot selectively 00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:23.740 numb emotion. If you numb the dark stuff, you 00:15:23.740 --> 00:15:26.240 also numb the light stuff. Oh, wow. You numb 00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:28.759 joy. You numb gratitude. You numb happiness. 00:15:28.860 --> 00:15:32.039 You cannot mute the sadness without also meeting 00:15:32.039 --> 00:15:35.360 the joy. That is. terrifyingly accurate so if 00:15:35.360 --> 00:15:37.059 you're trying to protect yourself from pain by 00:15:37.059 --> 00:15:39.419 staying numb you're essentially accidentally 00:15:39.419 --> 00:15:41.679 protecting yourself from ever feeling real joy 00:15:41.679 --> 00:15:43.919 you're just flattening your entire life that's 00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:46.120 the price of invulnerability you become flat 00:15:46.120 --> 00:15:49.019 and that creates this vicious cycle you feel 00:15:49.019 --> 00:15:50.860 nothing so you look for something to make you 00:15:50.860 --> 00:15:53.580 feel alive which often leads to more risky behavior 00:15:53.580 --> 00:15:56.460 or more intense numbing you're just chasing a 00:15:56.460 --> 00:15:58.919 high because you've anesthetized your soul man 00:15:59.549 --> 00:16:01.389 That explains so much about modern burnout. We're 00:16:01.389 --> 00:16:03.049 all just trying not to feel bad and we end up 00:16:03.049 --> 00:16:05.509 feeling nothing at all. Precisely. And that insight 00:16:05.509 --> 00:16:08.250 is what allows her to move from just psychology 00:16:08.250 --> 00:16:11.330 to how we live our lives. So she's got these 00:16:11.330 --> 00:16:13.690 talks. She's blowing up online. She has the academic 00:16:13.690 --> 00:16:16.210 backing. Eventually, this leads to the biggest 00:16:16.210 --> 00:16:21.129 stage of all, Netflix. Yes. In 2019, Brene Brown. 00:16:21.659 --> 00:16:24.379 The Call to Courage debuted on Netflix. Which 00:16:24.379 --> 00:16:27.299 is huge. I mean, usually Netflix specials are 00:16:27.299 --> 00:16:29.179 for stand -up comedians like Dave Chappelle or 00:16:29.179 --> 00:16:31.759 John Mulaney. Or maybe a Beyonce concert. They 00:16:31.759 --> 00:16:33.659 don't usually give an hour to a research professor 00:16:33.659 --> 00:16:36.039 to talk about feelings. It was a total genre 00:16:36.039 --> 00:16:38.419 -bending moment. USA Today actually reviewed 00:16:38.419 --> 00:16:40.919 the special and called it a mix of a motivational 00:16:40.919 --> 00:16:43.720 speech and stand -up comedy special. That tracks. 00:16:44.139 --> 00:16:46.500 She's funny. She has that Texas wit. She knows 00:16:46.500 --> 00:16:49.470 how to hold a room. She does. But underneath 00:16:49.470 --> 00:16:51.970 the humor, the core argument was deadly serious. 00:16:52.649 --> 00:16:55.429 She posits that you must choose courage over 00:16:55.429 --> 00:16:58.470 comfort. And here is the kicker, the equation 00:16:58.470 --> 00:17:00.870 she lays out. You cannot be brave without being 00:17:00.870 --> 00:17:03.309 vulnerable. They are the same thing. That's the 00:17:03.309 --> 00:17:06.029 aha moment for me. We usually think vulnerability 00:17:06.029 --> 00:17:08.650 is weakness. We think courage is being tough 00:17:08.650 --> 00:17:10.410 and unshakable. She's saying, no, vulnerability 00:17:10.410 --> 00:17:12.450 is the most accurate measure of courage. And 00:17:12.450 --> 00:17:14.690 according to her research, doing this, choosing 00:17:14.690 --> 00:17:17.890 courage over comfort is the only path to love. 00:17:18.279 --> 00:17:20.640 joy and belonging. Because if you have your armor 00:17:20.640 --> 00:17:23.839 on, nobody can see you. And if nobody can see 00:17:23.839 --> 00:17:26.640 you, you can't be loved for who you are. You 00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:28.299 can only be loved for who you are pretending 00:17:28.299 --> 00:17:31.420 to be. And that is a lonely place to be. OK, 00:17:31.539 --> 00:17:33.299 so she's conquered the Internet. She's conquered 00:17:33.299 --> 00:17:35.619 Netflix. But we have to talk about the books 00:17:35.619 --> 00:17:38.220 because this is a publishing empire we are looking 00:17:38.220 --> 00:17:41.519 at. She isn't just a speaker. She is a prolific 00:17:41.519 --> 00:17:45.200 writer. It is a juggernaut. As of 2021, she is 00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:48.220 the author of six number one New York Times bestsellers. 00:17:48.519 --> 00:17:51.759 Six! That is wild. Most authors dream of getting 00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:53.980 on that list once. Let's run through them, because 00:17:53.980 --> 00:17:55.900 I think seeing the progression of the titles 00:17:55.900 --> 00:17:59.259 tells a story about what we as a society were 00:17:59.259 --> 00:18:02.079 hungry for at the time. Agreed. It starts with 00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:04.819 The Gifts of Imperfection in 2010. This was the 00:18:04.819 --> 00:18:07.299 early breakout hit. The thesis was relatively 00:18:07.299 --> 00:18:10.000 simple, but also pretty radical. Letting go of 00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:11.680 who you think you're supposed to be and embracing 00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:14.369 who you are. It introduced the concept of wholehearted 00:18:14.369 --> 00:18:16.890 living. Which sounds simple, like a bumper sticker, 00:18:17.130 --> 00:18:20.089 but is incredibly hard to execute. Just be yourself 00:18:20.089 --> 00:18:22.630 is the hardest advice to follow when the world 00:18:22.630 --> 00:18:25.049 is telling you to be someone else entirely. Then 00:18:25.049 --> 00:18:29.769 came Daring Greatly in 2012. Now, I love the 00:18:29.769 --> 00:18:31.730 story behind this title. It really anchors her 00:18:31.730 --> 00:18:33.670 work in history. It's a great connection. The 00:18:33.670 --> 00:18:35.650 title comes from a speech by Theodore Roosevelt, 00:18:35.829 --> 00:18:39.109 right? Yes, delivered in 1910 at the Sorbonne 00:18:39.109 --> 00:18:42.059 in Paris. It's officially called citizenship 00:18:42.059 --> 00:18:44.859 in a republic, but it's often called the man 00:18:44.859 --> 00:18:47.079 in the arena speech. I can almost recite it. 00:18:47.140 --> 00:18:49.480 It is not the critic who counts. Not the man 00:18:49.480 --> 00:18:52.039 who points out how the strong man stumbles or 00:18:52.039 --> 00:18:53.799 where the doer of deeds could have done them 00:18:53.799 --> 00:18:56.660 better. Exactly. The credit belongs to the man 00:18:56.660 --> 00:18:59.559 who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred 00:18:59.559 --> 00:19:02.400 by dust and sweat and blood. And she's using 00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:04.900 that to say vulnerability is stepping into the 00:19:04.900 --> 00:19:08.369 arena. Yes. She uses it to frame the conversation 00:19:08.369 --> 00:19:11.710 around feedback and judgment. If you are on the 00:19:11.710 --> 00:19:13.950 sidelines judging your opinion doesn't matter. 00:19:13.990 --> 00:19:17.029 You're safe, but you're irrelevant. If you are 00:19:17.029 --> 00:19:19.130 daring greatly, you are going to get your ass 00:19:19.130 --> 00:19:20.970 kicked occasionally. That is the price of entry. 00:19:21.109 --> 00:19:24.049 If you aren't willing to fail, you can't enter 00:19:24.049 --> 00:19:26.349 the arena. And that book was massive. I remember 00:19:26.349 --> 00:19:29.609 she went on Super Soul Sunday with Oprah in 2013 00:19:29.609 --> 00:19:32.289 to talk about it, which is basically the knighthood 00:19:32.289 --> 00:19:35.220 of the self -help world. If you are on Super 00:19:35.220 --> 00:19:37.720 Soul Sunday sitting in the garden with Oprah, 00:19:37.880 --> 00:19:41.000 you have arrived. Oprah was a huge champion of 00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:43.279 this work, which just amplified it to a massive 00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:47.119 audience. Truly. So after Daring Greatly, after 00:19:47.119 --> 00:19:49.400 we enter the arena and get beaten up, we get 00:19:49.400 --> 00:19:52.259 Rising Strong in 2015. Which logically follows. 00:19:52.660 --> 00:19:55.319 If Daring Greatly is about entering the arena 00:19:55.319 --> 00:19:57.579 and getting knocked down, Rising Strong is the 00:19:57.579 --> 00:20:00.579 manual for how you get back up. She breaks down 00:20:00.579 --> 00:20:03.089 the physics of resilience. She calls it the reckoning, 00:20:03.130 --> 00:20:05.529 the rumble, the revolution. Okay. She talks about 00:20:05.529 --> 00:20:07.609 that messy middle part of failure where you just 00:20:07.609 --> 00:20:10.150 want to quit. I like that structure. It's not 00:20:10.150 --> 00:20:13.630 just time heals all wounds. It's an active process 00:20:13.630 --> 00:20:15.630 of wrestling with the failure. You have to own 00:20:15.630 --> 00:20:17.690 the story to write the ending. Then in 2017, 00:20:17.930 --> 00:20:19.829 we get Braving the Wilderness. This one felt 00:20:19.829 --> 00:20:21.690 a little different to me. It felt more social, 00:20:21.829 --> 00:20:23.869 like it was addressing the polarization in the 00:20:23.869 --> 00:20:26.829 world. It shifted focus to the concept of belonging. 00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:30.160 But she makes a critical distinction that I think 00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:32.779 is one of her most important contributions. She 00:20:32.779 --> 00:20:35.339 distinguishes between belonging and fitting in. 00:20:35.519 --> 00:20:37.779 Wait, aren't those the same thing? In high school, 00:20:37.819 --> 00:20:39.740 they definitely felt like the same thing. No, 00:20:39.819 --> 00:20:42.059 and the difference is everything. Fitting in 00:20:42.059 --> 00:20:45.500 is assessing a situation and changing yourself 00:20:45.500 --> 00:20:48.619 so that you are accepted. You change your clothes, 00:20:48.819 --> 00:20:51.640 your opinions, your behavior to match the group. 00:20:51.740 --> 00:20:54.799 Okay. belonging is presenting your true self 00:20:54.799 --> 00:20:57.839 and being accepted for it so if you fit in you 00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:00.019 aren't really belonging because the group doesn't 00:21:00.019 --> 00:21:02.779 know the real you they just like the mask exactly 00:21:02.779 --> 00:21:05.940 in fact she argues that true belonging requires 00:21:05.940 --> 00:21:09.440 the courage to stand alone it requires you to 00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:11.940 brave the wilderness of being different you belong 00:21:11.940 --> 00:21:14.960 to yourself first That hits home. And then in 00:21:14.960 --> 00:21:17.420 2018, she makes that pivot we hinted at earlier. 00:21:17.500 --> 00:21:20.220 She goes fully corporate with Dare to Lead. This 00:21:20.220 --> 00:21:22.000 connects right back to her work at the business 00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:25.279 school. She took all these concepts, shame, vulnerability, 00:21:25.700 --> 00:21:28.380 empathy, the arena, and applied them specifically 00:21:28.380 --> 00:21:31.180 to the workplace. It argues that daring leadership 00:21:31.180 --> 00:21:33.700 is a collection of four skill sets that are 100 00:21:33.700 --> 00:21:36.150 % teachable, observable, and measurable. That 00:21:36.150 --> 00:21:38.990 was the genius move. She took the fluff out of 00:21:38.990 --> 00:21:41.509 soft skills. She told executives, I can measure 00:21:41.509 --> 00:21:44.769 this. I can teach this. This is a system. And 00:21:44.769 --> 00:21:46.970 it gave permission for leaders to stop pretending 00:21:46.970 --> 00:21:48.609 they had all the answers. It allowed them to 00:21:48.609 --> 00:21:52.089 say, I don't know, which ironically builds more 00:21:52.089 --> 00:21:54.670 trust than pretending to know everything. And 00:21:54.670 --> 00:21:56.829 finally, the most recent big title listed here 00:21:56.829 --> 00:22:00.130 is Atlas of the Heart in 2021. This one is fascinating. 00:22:00.369 --> 00:22:02.210 It's almost like an encyclopedia or a dictionary. 00:22:02.730 --> 00:22:04.730 The premise is expanding the reader's emotional 00:22:04.730 --> 00:22:07.869 vocabulary. I have to ask the skeptics question 00:22:07.869 --> 00:22:10.970 here. Why does she think we need a better vocabulary? 00:22:11.049 --> 00:22:14.529 Can't I just say I'm sad or mad? Why do I need 00:22:14.529 --> 00:22:17.670 87 different words for feelings? It's a valid 00:22:17.670 --> 00:22:20.670 question. But her research suggests that most 00:22:20.670 --> 00:22:23.849 people can only identify three emotions. Happy, 00:22:24.009 --> 00:22:27.329 sad, and pissed off. The primary colors of emotion. 00:22:27.730 --> 00:22:30.390 Right. But the human experience is an infinite 00:22:30.390 --> 00:22:33.250 spectrum. Her argument is that language shapes 00:22:33.250 --> 00:22:35.369 reality. If you can't name the difference between 00:22:35.369 --> 00:22:38.349 anguish and despair or between envy and jealousy, 00:22:38.670 --> 00:22:41.569 you can't process it effectively and you certainly 00:22:41.569 --> 00:22:44.069 can't communicate it to someone else. Atlas of 00:22:44.069 --> 00:22:46.890 the Heart gives people the language to understand 00:22:46.890 --> 00:22:49.650 their own experiences. It's all about granularity. 00:22:49.710 --> 00:22:51.630 It's like trying to paint a sunset with only 00:22:51.630 --> 00:22:53.490 a blue crayon. You're missing all the nuance. 00:22:53.690 --> 00:22:55.690 If I can tell you I'm feeling resentment specifically, 00:22:56.069 --> 00:22:58.470 we can deal with that. If I just say I'm mad. 00:22:58.910 --> 00:23:02.069 We might miss the entire point. Exactly. And 00:23:02.069 --> 00:23:04.950 clearly people felt that lack. Because it won 00:23:04.950 --> 00:23:07.369 the Goodreads Choice Award for Best Nonfiction 00:23:07.369 --> 00:23:11.069 in 2022. It resonated because we are all starving 00:23:11.069 --> 00:23:13.869 for connection. And language is the bridge. She 00:23:13.869 --> 00:23:15.750 also does collaborations, which is worth noting. 00:23:15.789 --> 00:23:18.410 She isn't always the solo star. No. She wrote 00:23:18.410 --> 00:23:21.329 a chapter for Tim Ferriss' Tools of Titans. But 00:23:21.329 --> 00:23:24.049 more importantly, she used her platform to co 00:23:24.049 --> 00:23:26.849 -create an anthology called You Are Your Best 00:23:26.849 --> 00:23:29.529 Thing with Tarana Burke. Tarana Burke, the founder 00:23:29.529 --> 00:23:32.049 of the Me Too movement. Correct. That book is 00:23:32.049 --> 00:23:34.039 a collection of essays by Black... individuals 00:23:34.039 --> 00:23:36.779 it discusses the trauma of white supremacy but 00:23:36.779 --> 00:23:39.880 also black love and black life it connects the 00:23:39.880 --> 00:23:42.180 concepts of vulnerability and shame resilience 00:23:42.180 --> 00:23:46.059 specifically to the black experience it shows 00:23:46.059 --> 00:23:49.420 Brene Brown intentionally using her massive platform 00:23:49.420 --> 00:23:52.960 to elevate other voices and explore the intersections 00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:56.460 of her work with race It acknowledges that vulnerability 00:23:56.460 --> 00:23:58.259 looks different when you don't have the same 00:23:58.259 --> 00:24:01.000 societal privileges. It's a huge body of work. 00:24:01.059 --> 00:24:03.259 We're talking millions of books sold, but she 00:24:03.259 --> 00:24:05.200 didn't stop at books. We touched on Netflix, 00:24:05.299 --> 00:24:08.720 but she has really built a multimedia empire. 00:24:08.940 --> 00:24:11.799 She's everywhere. She has. Podcasting became 00:24:11.799 --> 00:24:15.039 a huge avenue for her. In 2020, she started hosting 00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:18.349 Unlocking Us and Dare to Lead. I remember when 00:24:18.349 --> 00:24:20.210 Unlocking Us launched, it was right around the 00:24:20.210 --> 00:24:22.250 start of the pandemic, wasn't it? It was. March 00:24:22.250 --> 00:24:25.670 2020. The timing was accidental, but sort of 00:24:25.670 --> 00:24:28.390 perfect. The whole world was locked down, scared, 00:24:28.589 --> 00:24:31.630 and isolated. And here comes a podcast entirely 00:24:31.630 --> 00:24:34.329 about connection and feelings. It was like therapy 00:24:34.329 --> 00:24:35.990 for the whole world. I remember listening to 00:24:35.990 --> 00:24:37.690 it on walks when I couldn't see my friends. And 00:24:37.690 --> 00:24:40.410 she got that big Spotify deal. Yes, she signed 00:24:40.410 --> 00:24:43.630 an exclusive deal starting in 2020. Though interesting 00:24:43.630 --> 00:24:46.670 side note from the source material, Spotify ended 00:24:46.670 --> 00:24:49.289 those exclusive shows amid a strategic shakeout 00:24:49.289 --> 00:24:53.109 in January 2023. But for that peak pandemic period, 00:24:53.250 --> 00:24:54.829 she was one of their flagship personalities. 00:24:55.329 --> 00:24:58.009 What's the format of Unlocking Us? Is it just 00:24:58.009 --> 00:25:01.329 her lecturing? It alternates. Sometimes she interviews 00:25:01.329 --> 00:25:03.190 guests and sometimes she does solo episodes. 00:25:03.430 --> 00:25:05.750 The solo ones are really intimate. It's just 00:25:05.750 --> 00:25:07.990 her talking directly to the listener, sharing 00:25:07.990 --> 00:25:10.710 personal stories, research learnings or summarizing 00:25:10.710 --> 00:25:12.809 other social science work. It feels very personal, 00:25:12.849 --> 00:25:14.809 like a phone call from a smart friend. And the 00:25:14.809 --> 00:25:16.970 guest list is pretty star studded. Oh, yeah. 00:25:17.490 --> 00:25:21.059 Alicia Keys, Glennon Doyle. David Kessler, who 00:25:21.059 --> 00:25:23.559 is a legendary grief expert, and again, Tarana 00:25:23.559 --> 00:25:25.880 Burke. It's a mix of celebrities and deep thinkers. 00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:28.359 But won an award too, right? Yes, the iHeartRadio 00:25:28.359 --> 00:25:30.660 Podcast Award for Best Advice or Inspirational 00:25:30.660 --> 00:25:33.460 Podcast in 2021. And she also turned Atlas of 00:25:33.460 --> 00:25:35.859 the Heart into a TV show. Right, on HBO Max in 00:25:35.859 --> 00:25:38.940 2022, a five -part docu -series. So if you count 00:25:38.940 --> 00:25:41.740 it up, she has books, podcasts, Netflix specials, 00:25:41.740 --> 00:25:43.779 and HBO series. And company, we can't forget 00:25:43.779 --> 00:25:46.119 The Daring Way. That's the business engine. Sure. 00:25:46.220 --> 00:25:48.700 She is the CEO. It's a professional training 00:25:48.700 --> 00:25:51.339 and certification program. So if you are a therapist 00:25:51.339 --> 00:25:53.660 or a coach, you can get certified in her methodology 00:25:53.660 --> 00:25:57.299 to help your own clients. It's a brilliant way 00:25:57.299 --> 00:26:00.019 of scaling her impact beyond just people who 00:26:00.019 --> 00:26:02.779 read her books. It operationalizes the research 00:26:02.779 --> 00:26:05.059 so other people can teach it. Okay, so we have 00:26:05.059 --> 00:26:07.819 established that she is a powerhouse, academic 00:26:07.819 --> 00:26:10.500 heavyweight, media mogul, corporate consultant. 00:26:11.079 --> 00:26:14.680 But I want to pivot now to segment five, the 00:26:14.680 --> 00:26:17.960 person behind the research. Because you can't 00:26:17.960 --> 00:26:20.160 research vulnerability for 20 years without having 00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:23.079 a backstory. And her backstory is very much part 00:26:23.079 --> 00:26:26.039 of her brand. She is not a blank slate. She uses 00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:28.400 her own life as data. So looking at the bio, 00:26:28.599 --> 00:26:31.859 she was born in San Antonio. Yes. Eldest of four 00:26:31.859 --> 00:26:33.660 children. Her family lives in New Orleans now, 00:26:33.740 --> 00:26:35.880 but she has settled in Houston with her husband 00:26:35.880 --> 00:26:38.460 and two kids. She's deeply rooted in the South. 00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:41.460 Now, she talks a lot about numbing, as we mentioned 00:26:41.460 --> 00:26:43.500 earlier. And that isn't just theoretical for 00:26:43.500 --> 00:26:45.339 her. That comes from personal experience. It 00:26:45.339 --> 00:26:48.859 does. Brown is very open about her past addictions. 00:26:49.140 --> 00:26:51.799 The source material explicitly lists alcohol, 00:26:52.099 --> 00:26:55.480 smoking, emotional eating, and control. Control 00:26:55.480 --> 00:26:58.059 as an addiction. That is a powerful framing. 00:26:58.240 --> 00:27:00.460 I feel seen. It's the addiction of the perfectionist. 00:27:00.500 --> 00:27:03.039 It is. We don't usually group control with alcohol, 00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:05.319 but it serves the same function to manage anxiety. 00:27:05.660 --> 00:27:08.099 But she has a specific sobriety date listed. 00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:12.210 May 12. 1996. Which was, wait, looking at the 00:27:12.210 --> 00:27:14.630 timeline, that was one day after she graduated 00:27:14.630 --> 00:27:17.690 from her master's program? That timing is incredibly 00:27:17.690 --> 00:27:21.410 poignant, isn't it? She finishes this major academic 00:27:21.410 --> 00:27:24.289 milestone, the Master of Social Work, and the 00:27:24.289 --> 00:27:27.170 very next day she makes this life -altering decision 00:27:27.170 --> 00:27:30.170 to stop drinking and smoking. It's just a moment 00:27:30.170 --> 00:27:32.480 of profound clarity. And I think this is why 00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:34.740 her work resonates so deeply. When she talks 00:27:34.740 --> 00:27:37.460 about the price of invulnerability or numbing, 00:27:37.480 --> 00:27:39.299 she isn't judging the listener. She's been there. 00:27:39.420 --> 00:27:41.259 She knows what it feels like to use a glass of 00:27:41.259 --> 00:27:43.519 wine or a cigarette to push down a hard feeling. 00:27:43.599 --> 00:27:46.680 She knows the cost. It adds a layer of authenticity 00:27:46.680 --> 00:27:49.680 that you just can't fake. In the therapeutic 00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:52.059 world, they might call her a wounded healer. 00:27:52.700 --> 00:27:54.500 She isn't teaching from a place of perfection. 00:27:55.039 --> 00:27:57.400 She's teaching from a place of recovery. She's 00:27:57.400 --> 00:27:59.680 walking the path with you, not pointing at it 00:27:59.680 --> 00:28:02.079 from a helicopter. There is also a spiritual 00:28:02.079 --> 00:28:04.599 component to her life that she discusses, which 00:28:04.599 --> 00:28:07.339 is interesting given how secular the academic 00:28:07.339 --> 00:28:10.940 world usually is. She was raised Catholic, but 00:28:10.940 --> 00:28:14.059 the source notes that she left the church. However, 00:28:14.319 --> 00:28:17.279 she returned to faith later, joining the Episcopal 00:28:17.279 --> 00:28:19.299 community with her husband and children two decades 00:28:19.299 --> 00:28:22.450 later. So she has had her own wilderness journey 00:28:22.450 --> 00:28:25.029 with faith as well? Exactly. She doesn't shy 00:28:25.029 --> 00:28:27.910 away from the messy parts of institutions, whether 00:28:27.910 --> 00:28:30.509 it's the church or the corporate boardroom. She 00:28:30.509 --> 00:28:32.349 believes in finding the sacred in the ordinary. 00:28:32.549 --> 00:28:34.410 Now, we have to touch on the cool friend vibe, 00:28:34.549 --> 00:28:37.170 because despite the PhD and the serious topics 00:28:37.170 --> 00:28:39.430 like shame and trauma, she just seems like someone 00:28:39.430 --> 00:28:41.630 you'd want to hang out with. Totally. And looking 00:28:41.630 --> 00:28:44.130 at the source material, she has some very specific 00:28:44.130 --> 00:28:48.109 sports allegiances. She does. As a Texan, she 00:28:48.109 --> 00:28:50.809 is a fan of the San Antonio Scurs and the Houston 00:28:50.809 --> 00:28:54.130 Astros. That makes sense. But she is also a... 00:28:54.319 --> 00:28:56.940 diehard supporter of liverpool fc the english 00:28:56.940 --> 00:28:59.200 premier league soccer team that's so unexpected 00:28:59.200 --> 00:29:01.440 the very same she even has a quote attributed 00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:04.859 to her all good things tied to liverpool i love 00:29:04.859 --> 00:29:07.980 that it's so random but so specific it grounds 00:29:07.980 --> 00:29:10.119 her it reminds you she's a person who screens 00:29:10.119 --> 00:29:13.660 at the tv on weekends and she was in a movie 00:29:13.660 --> 00:29:16.519 a legitimate hollywood comedy wine country came 00:29:16.519 --> 00:29:19.920 out in 2019 it stars amy poehler my rudolph tina 00:29:19.920 --> 00:29:22.940 fey Brene Brown appeared as herself. That's when 00:29:22.940 --> 00:29:24.880 you know you're a cultural icon, when you can 00:29:24.880 --> 00:29:27.259 cameo as yourself in an Amy Poehler movie and 00:29:27.259 --> 00:29:29.240 the audience gets the joke. It speaks to her 00:29:29.240 --> 00:29:31.440 crossover appeal. She isn't just for academics 00:29:31.440 --> 00:29:33.940 or people in therapy. She is pop culture. She 00:29:33.940 --> 00:29:36.539 is part of the zeitgeist. So let's bring this 00:29:36.539 --> 00:29:38.019 all together. We've gone from the classrooms 00:29:38.019 --> 00:29:40.099 of the University of Houston to the TED stage 00:29:40.099 --> 00:29:43.359 to Netflix to Liverpool football. What is the 00:29:43.359 --> 00:29:45.559 synthesis here? How do we summarize this journey? 00:29:45.799 --> 00:29:48.299 If we look at the trajectory, it's remarkable. 00:29:49.390 --> 00:29:51.849 She started as a student studying grounded theory, 00:29:52.029 --> 00:29:54.910 literally just listening to stories in Houston. 00:29:55.450 --> 00:29:57.990 She followed the data where it led her, even 00:29:57.990 --> 00:30:00.450 when it was uncomfortable. And she wrote those 00:30:00.450 --> 00:30:03.069 stories to become a global advisor for companies 00:30:03.069 --> 00:30:06.529 like Disney and Google and a confidant of Oprah 00:30:06.529 --> 00:30:09.289 Winfrey. And yet, despite all the fame and the 00:30:09.289 --> 00:30:11.829 platforms, the message hasn't really changed. 00:30:12.150 --> 00:30:14.390 No, it hasn't. The central thesis connecting 00:30:14.390 --> 00:30:16.650 all of it, the books, the talks, the corporate 00:30:16.650 --> 00:30:19.740 consulting, it's simple. You cannot have courage 00:30:19.740 --> 00:30:22.640 without vulnerability. It is a package deal to 00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:26.240 feel joy. You have to risk feeling pain to lead. 00:30:26.440 --> 00:30:29.299 You have to risk failure to belong. You have 00:30:29.299 --> 00:30:32.359 to risk standing alone. It's the absolute antithesis 00:30:32.359 --> 00:30:34.200 of the armor we talked about at the very beginning 00:30:34.200 --> 00:30:36.460 of this deep dive. Exactly. She is telling us 00:30:36.460 --> 00:30:39.259 to take the armor off. It's heavy. It's suffocating 00:30:39.259 --> 00:30:40.859 and it's keeping us from the things we actually 00:30:40.859 --> 00:30:43.140 want. And that brings us to the provocative thought 00:30:43.140 --> 00:30:45.000 for the listener. We always like to leave you 00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:46.940 with something to chew on. We talked about the 00:30:46.940 --> 00:30:49.740 price of invulnerability. If Brown's research 00:30:49.740 --> 00:30:53.380 is correct and the data says it is, then numbing 00:30:53.380 --> 00:30:56.339 the bad effectively numbs the good. So I want 00:30:56.339 --> 00:30:58.259 the listener to ask themselves a hard question. 00:30:58.960 --> 00:31:01.740 Where in their own life are they choosing comfort 00:31:01.740 --> 00:31:05.359 right now? That's a tough one. And more importantly, 00:31:05.460 --> 00:31:08.460 is that comfort costing them their joy? Are you 00:31:08.460 --> 00:31:11.299 staying safe but staying numb? Because according 00:31:11.299 --> 00:31:14.019 to Brene Brown, you can be safe or you can be 00:31:14.019 --> 00:31:17.130 brave. But you can't be both. That is a heavy 00:31:17.130 --> 00:31:20.289 question to end on, but a necessary one. Well, 00:31:20.349 --> 00:31:22.250 if you want to dig deeper and clearly, there 00:31:22.250 --> 00:31:24.849 is a mountain of material here. Check the sources, 00:31:25.089 --> 00:31:27.390 read the books, watch the talks. And maybe, just 00:31:27.390 --> 00:31:29.609 maybe, step into the arena. Thanks for diving 00:31:29.609 --> 00:31:30.710 in with us. Take care.