WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.799 Welcome back to the Deep Dive. Today we are looking 00:00:02.799 --> 00:00:05.580 at a, well, a kind of paradox. We're talking 00:00:05.580 --> 00:00:09.140 about a global phenomenon that is, at its heart, 00:00:09.199 --> 00:00:11.759 all about being quiet. That's a great way to 00:00:11.759 --> 00:00:14.160 put it. It's a very loud noise about silence. 00:00:14.500 --> 00:00:17.120 Exactly. We're talking about a man who the New 00:00:17.120 --> 00:00:19.660 York Times called, and this is a direct quote, 00:00:19.859 --> 00:00:22.640 the most popular spiritual author in the United 00:00:22.640 --> 00:00:24.760 States. And that was years ago. He's only gotten 00:00:24.760 --> 00:00:27.339 bigger since then. Right. His books are in, what, 00:00:27.420 --> 00:00:30.820 over 33 languages now? He's the man who sat on 00:00:30.820 --> 00:00:32.840 the couch with Oprah Winfrey, not just once, 00:00:32.840 --> 00:00:35.200 but over and over again, to lead millions of 00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:37.799 people through what he calls a new Earth. Of 00:00:37.799 --> 00:00:40.280 course, we are talking about Eckhart Tolle. Eckhart 00:00:40.280 --> 00:00:42.460 Tolle. A name that, I mean, it's become almost 00:00:42.460 --> 00:00:44.880 a brand in itself. It has, yeah. And depending 00:00:44.880 --> 00:00:48.179 on who you talk to, he's either this profoundly 00:00:48.179 --> 00:00:52.009 enlightened modern sage or... Something else. 00:00:52.090 --> 00:00:54.770 A pop culture curiosity, maybe. And that's really 00:00:54.770 --> 00:00:56.950 the mission of this deep dive, isn't it? To get 00:00:56.950 --> 00:00:59.329 under the hood of that. Because the story, the 00:00:59.329 --> 00:01:01.670 actual trajectory of his life is what I find 00:01:01.670 --> 00:01:05.129 so fascinating. It's a truly bizarre metamorphosis. 00:01:05.329 --> 00:01:08.569 I mean, we are trying to understand how a clinically 00:01:08.569 --> 00:01:11.689 depressed, suicidal Cambridge graduate student. 00:01:11.769 --> 00:01:14.489 Top of his game academically. The absolute pinnacle. 00:01:14.530 --> 00:01:17.069 How that person transforms into a homeless mystic, 00:01:17.069 --> 00:01:19.909 literally sleeping on park benches in London. 00:01:20.310 --> 00:01:23.250 And then, as if that weren't enough, transforms 00:01:23.250 --> 00:01:26.489 again into this global icon who shows up on albums 00:01:26.489 --> 00:01:28.530 with Kendrick Lamar. When you just lay it out 00:01:28.530 --> 00:01:30.870 like that, it sounds like fiction. You know, 00:01:30.890 --> 00:01:33.290 like a movie script you'd reject because it's 00:01:33.290 --> 00:01:35.730 just too unbelievable. It really does. But we've 00:01:35.730 --> 00:01:37.870 got the sources, the biographical records, the 00:01:37.870 --> 00:01:40.650 publication histories, the sales numbers. It's 00:01:40.650 --> 00:01:42.569 all there. And we're also digging into the reception. 00:01:42.670 --> 00:01:45.469 The critical reviews, not just from, you know, 00:01:45.489 --> 00:01:49.010 secular newspapers, but from serious theologians 00:01:49.010 --> 00:01:51.010 who have very strong opinions about him. Oh, 00:01:51.069 --> 00:01:53.459 very strong. Both for and against. I think for 00:01:53.459 --> 00:01:55.659 me, the hook, the thing I just can't get past 00:01:55.659 --> 00:01:58.620 is that central contrast. You have a man who 00:01:58.620 --> 00:02:01.640 spent two years doing nothing but sitting on 00:02:01.640 --> 00:02:03.680 a park bench in Russell Square just watching 00:02:03.680 --> 00:02:06.140 the world. In a state of bliss, or so he claims. 00:02:06.340 --> 00:02:08.759 Right, in a state of bliss. And that same person. 00:02:09.360 --> 00:02:11.860 The guy who's literally sleeping rough on Hampstead 00:02:11.860 --> 00:02:14.960 Heath ends up shattering publishing records. 00:02:15.580 --> 00:02:18.960 How do you get from the park bench to the top 00:02:18.960 --> 00:02:21.139 of the bestseller list? That's the billion dollar 00:02:21.139 --> 00:02:23.919 question, isn't it? How does doing nothing become 00:02:23.919 --> 00:02:27.319 a multimillion dollar? global enterprise. So 00:02:27.319 --> 00:02:28.900 for everyone listening, that's what we're going 00:02:28.900 --> 00:02:31.919 to unpack. We are going to dig into the specific 00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:34.979 aha moment that apparently changed his entire 00:02:34.979 --> 00:02:37.620 life, what his followers call his transformation. 00:02:38.039 --> 00:02:41.340 The night of 1977. That's the one. Then we'll 00:02:41.340 --> 00:02:43.259 look at the mechanics of his rise to fame because 00:02:43.259 --> 00:02:45.780 it wasn't an overnight thing. It was a slow burn 00:02:45.780 --> 00:02:48.199 and then an explosion. The Oprah effect. The 00:02:48.199 --> 00:02:50.639 Oprah effect, definitely. And finally, we are 00:02:50.639 --> 00:02:52.780 going to dive deep into that really polarized 00:02:52.780 --> 00:02:55.020 reception because for every person who sees him 00:02:55.020 --> 00:02:57.560 as a spiritual savior there's an academic or 00:02:57.560 --> 00:02:59.780 a theologian who thinks he's peddling uh well 00:02:59.780 --> 00:03:02.800 mumbo jumbo or worse a dangerous heresy that 00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:05.319 undermines established religion we're definitely 00:03:05.319 --> 00:03:07.819 not shying away from those arguments no we want 00:03:07.819 --> 00:03:09.860 the whole picture so let's start at the beginning 00:03:09.860 --> 00:03:14.259 the origin story who was eckhart tolle before 00:03:14.259 --> 00:03:17.770 he was eckhart tolle Because he wasn't born with 00:03:17.770 --> 00:03:20.210 that name. No, not at all. He was born Ulrich 00:03:20.210 --> 00:03:24.110 Leonard Tolle in 1948. In Lunen, Germany. Right. 00:03:24.169 --> 00:03:26.370 Small town near Dortmund. And you have to think 00:03:26.370 --> 00:03:30.629 about the context. 1948. Post -war Germany. That's 00:03:30.629 --> 00:03:33.389 a heavy setting to be born into. Extremely. The 00:03:33.389 --> 00:03:36.449 country is just, it's in ruins. Not just physically, 00:03:36.490 --> 00:03:38.789 but psychologically, morally. Yeah. The collective 00:03:38.789 --> 00:03:41.509 trauma is immense. And he's born right into that 00:03:41.509 --> 00:03:44.310 rubble. And his early home life, from the records, 00:03:44.389 --> 00:03:46.349 it sounds like it was pretty unhappy. Yeah, his 00:03:46.349 --> 00:03:48.349 parents fought a lot, and they eventually separated. 00:03:48.569 --> 00:03:51.370 This seems to be a key factor. At age 13, he 00:03:51.370 --> 00:03:53.650 moves to Spain to live with his father. And this 00:03:53.650 --> 00:03:55.750 is where the story takes its first really weird 00:03:55.750 --> 00:03:58.389 turn. It really is. It's a detail that just jumps 00:03:58.389 --> 00:04:00.729 off the page in his biography. From the age of 00:04:00.729 --> 00:04:04.250 13 to the age of 22, he refused all forms of 00:04:04.250 --> 00:04:06.210 formal education. He just opted out of school 00:04:06.210 --> 00:04:09.110 for nine years. Completely. He just said no. 00:04:09.580 --> 00:04:12.180 And his father, which is maybe even more remarkable, 00:04:12.300 --> 00:04:15.759 seems to have just let him. I mean, in the 1960s, 00:04:15.759 --> 00:04:18.339 that's a huge decision for a teenager to make 00:04:18.339 --> 00:04:21.860 and a pretty radical parenting choice. It really 00:04:21.860 --> 00:04:24.060 is. It suggests a kid with a very strong will 00:04:24.060 --> 00:04:27.199 or maybe a father who is just very hands off, 00:04:27.259 --> 00:04:29.769 almost neglectful. But the interesting thing 00:04:29.769 --> 00:04:31.569 is he wasn't just, you know, loafing around. 00:04:31.730 --> 00:04:34.310 He was pursuing his own interests. So he was 00:04:34.310 --> 00:04:36.550 basically homeschooling himself before that was 00:04:36.550 --> 00:04:38.470 really a thing. You could see it that way. He 00:04:38.470 --> 00:04:40.810 was studying language, literature, philosophy. 00:04:41.009 --> 00:04:43.689 He was on his own curriculum. And then at age 00:04:43.689 --> 00:04:46.490 15, he gets a gift that seems to have planted 00:04:46.490 --> 00:04:50.089 a very specific seed. The books. The books. A 00:04:50.089 --> 00:04:52.730 set of five spiritual books by a German mystic 00:04:52.730 --> 00:04:55.410 named Joseph Anton Schneider Franken. OK, not 00:04:55.410 --> 00:04:57.370 a household name for most of us. No, he's better 00:04:57.370 --> 00:05:00.819 known by his pseudonym. Bo Yin -Ra. He was a 00:05:00.819 --> 00:05:03.019 significant figure in German esoteric circles. 00:05:03.259 --> 00:05:06.000 And the sources say Tolle was heavily influenced 00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:08.139 by these writings. So just picture this. You're 00:05:08.139 --> 00:05:10.060 a teenager. You've completely rejected the school 00:05:10.060 --> 00:05:12.160 system. You're living in Spain and you're not 00:05:12.160 --> 00:05:14.759 reading comics. You're reading these dense German 00:05:14.759 --> 00:05:17.560 mystical texts about the nature of the soul. 00:05:17.720 --> 00:05:21.230 It's a very unique. incubation period isn't it 00:05:21.230 --> 00:05:24.170 it's just wires your brain differently when you're 00:05:24.170 --> 00:05:26.050 not being socialized by your peers and teachers 00:05:26.050 --> 00:05:29.009 but by these you know deeply esoteric ideas but 00:05:29.009 --> 00:05:31.310 eventually the real world has to intrude you 00:05:31.310 --> 00:05:34.110 can't just read philosophy forever right so at 00:05:34.110 --> 00:05:36.949 19 he decides to get back into the system he 00:05:36.949 --> 00:05:39.490 moves to London to England and what does he do 00:05:39.490 --> 00:05:42.110 there for about three years he teaches German 00:05:42.110 --> 00:05:45.089 and Spanish at a language school But I think 00:05:45.089 --> 00:05:47.389 he realized he needed credentials if he wanted 00:05:47.389 --> 00:05:49.449 to go further. So the intellectual engine really 00:05:49.449 --> 00:05:51.470 kicks in. He decides to go to university. He 00:05:51.470 --> 00:05:54.449 does. He ends the University of London. And here's 00:05:54.449 --> 00:05:58.410 the kicker. The kid with no high school education 00:05:58.410 --> 00:06:02.430 absolutely excels. He crushes it. That says a 00:06:02.430 --> 00:06:04.910 lot about his raw intelligence, to go from zero 00:06:04.910 --> 00:06:08.089 formal schooling for nine years to thriving at 00:06:08.089 --> 00:06:10.089 the University of London. It's incredible. And 00:06:10.089 --> 00:06:12.180 he doesn't stop. He graduates with a first class 00:06:12.180 --> 00:06:15.980 degree. And by 1977, he's enrolled in a postgraduate 00:06:15.980 --> 00:06:18.139 program at the University of Cambridge. Cambridge. 00:06:18.180 --> 00:06:20.620 I mean, that's the summit, the absolute top of 00:06:20.620 --> 00:06:23.360 the academic mountain. It is. He's 29 years old. 00:06:23.439 --> 00:06:26.120 He's on track for a doctorate. On paper, this 00:06:26.120 --> 00:06:28.639 is the ultimate success story. The self -taught 00:06:28.639 --> 00:06:31.680 kid from a broken home makes it to the most elite 00:06:31.680 --> 00:06:33.839 institution in the world. And on the inside, 00:06:34.100 --> 00:06:36.040 it was a completely different story. A catastrophe, 00:06:36.339 --> 00:06:39.100 an absolute catastrophe. Which brings us to this 00:06:39.100 --> 00:06:43.360 pivotal moment. The night of 1977. The turning 00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:45.920 point. The event that everything else in his 00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:48.379 life pivots around. The sources describe him 00:06:48.379 --> 00:06:50.920 suffering from these long, intense periods of 00:06:50.920 --> 00:06:53.319 depression. But it sounds like it was more than 00:06:53.319 --> 00:06:55.800 just, you know, feeling sad. Oh, it was existential 00:06:55.800 --> 00:06:59.459 dread. He describes it as a state of almost constant, 00:06:59.480 --> 00:07:02.519 high -level anxiety, punctuated by these deep 00:07:02.519 --> 00:07:05.259 dives into suicidal depression. He felt like 00:07:05.259 --> 00:07:07.540 his own mind was torturing him. He was searching 00:07:07.540 --> 00:07:10.259 for answers in academia and philosophy, but it 00:07:10.259 --> 00:07:12.160 was just making things worse. It was making it 00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:14.959 heavier. The intellect was just adding more layers 00:07:14.959 --> 00:07:17.579 to the problem. And on this one particular night 00:07:17.579 --> 00:07:20.500 in his small London apartment, it all reached 00:07:20.500 --> 00:07:22.959 a breaking point. He's recounted this story many, 00:07:23.040 --> 00:07:25.980 many times, right? Yes, and the details are always 00:07:25.980 --> 00:07:28.680 very consistent. He says he woke up in the middle 00:07:28.680 --> 00:07:31.220 of the night with a feeling of absolute unbearable 00:07:31.220 --> 00:07:34.939 dread. The silence felt hostile. His own existence 00:07:34.939 --> 00:07:37.620 felt like this immense burden. And then a thought 00:07:37.620 --> 00:07:40.759 came into his head, a very specific sentence. 00:07:41.139 --> 00:07:43.360 I can't live with myself any longer. Okay, let's 00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:45.060 just pause on that for a second because that's 00:07:45.060 --> 00:07:46.860 a phrase people use all the time. It's almost 00:07:46.860 --> 00:07:49.240 a cliche. Oh, I'm so embarrassed. I can't live 00:07:49.240 --> 00:07:51.540 with myself. Exactly. It's a figure of speech, 00:07:51.740 --> 00:07:55.660 a cry of despair. But Tully's mind, and maybe 00:07:55.660 --> 00:07:57.519 this is where the Cambridge linguistic training 00:07:57.519 --> 00:08:00.160 comes in, didn't just let the sentence go by. 00:08:00.339 --> 00:08:03.370 He stopped and looked at the grammar of it. He 00:08:03.370 --> 00:08:05.589 started analyzing the sentence while he was in 00:08:05.589 --> 00:08:07.850 the middle of a suicidal breakdown. It sounds 00:08:07.850 --> 00:08:10.209 absurd, but that's what he says happened. He 00:08:10.209 --> 00:08:12.850 looked at the structure. I cannot live with myself. 00:08:13.310 --> 00:08:15.569 And he asked himself a question. A critical question. 00:08:16.170 --> 00:08:18.629 If I cannot live with myself, there must be two 00:08:18.629 --> 00:08:22.430 of me. The I and the myself. Precisely. And in 00:08:22.430 --> 00:08:25.009 that moment, he had this sudden, shocking realization. 00:08:25.680 --> 00:08:28.060 He saw that there was an I, the witness, the 00:08:28.060 --> 00:08:30.139 consciousness that was aware. And then there 00:08:30.139 --> 00:08:32.919 was a self, this unhappy, heavy, mind -made story, 00:08:33.019 --> 00:08:35.519 the story of Ulrich Tille, the depressed student. 00:08:35.759 --> 00:08:38.139 So he saw that the self he was suffering from 00:08:38.139 --> 00:08:41.649 was just... A mental construct. A fabrication. 00:08:42.029 --> 00:08:44.590 A collection of thoughts and memories and fears 00:08:44.590 --> 00:08:47.350 that he had mistaken for his true identity. And 00:08:47.350 --> 00:08:49.690 in the moment he saw that distinction, he says 00:08:49.690 --> 00:08:52.289 he felt himself being drawn into a void. A void 00:08:52.289 --> 00:08:54.250 sounds terrifying. He says it was terrifying 00:08:54.250 --> 00:08:57.169 at first. An intense inner trembling. It felt 00:08:57.169 --> 00:08:59.169 like an annihilation. And he says the mind made 00:08:59.169 --> 00:09:01.450 self, with all its problems, its history, its 00:09:01.450 --> 00:09:04.909 constant worrying, it just collapsed. It dissolved. 00:09:05.210 --> 00:09:07.730 The psychological self died. That's the language 00:09:07.730 --> 00:09:09.750 he uses, the egoic structure that was causing 00:09:09.750 --> 00:09:12.250 all the pain just short -circuited and died. 00:09:12.470 --> 00:09:15.710 But the core awareness, the I, remained. He says 00:09:15.710 --> 00:09:17.529 he lost consciousness after that. And the next 00:09:17.529 --> 00:09:19.690 morning. What happens when you wake up from the 00:09:19.690 --> 00:09:21.830 death of your ego? Well, this is where the story 00:09:21.830 --> 00:09:23.450 shifts from what you might call a psychological 00:09:23.450 --> 00:09:27.090 event to a mystical one. He says he woke up. 00:09:27.340 --> 00:09:29.379 opened his eyes, and everything was miraculous. 00:09:29.980 --> 00:09:32.460 Miraculous how? He describes the light coming 00:09:32.460 --> 00:09:34.740 through the curtains as if he'd never really 00:09:34.740 --> 00:09:37.919 seen light before. He looked at mundane objects, 00:09:38.259 --> 00:09:41.799 a chair, a pencil on his desk, and saw them as 00:09:41.799 --> 00:09:44.820 vibrant, alive, without any mental labels. He 00:09:44.820 --> 00:09:46.620 wasn't thinking, that's a pencil. He was just 00:09:46.620 --> 00:09:49.039 seeing the is -ness of the pencil. And he went 00:09:49.039 --> 00:09:52.299 for a walk. And even the chaotic London traffic 00:09:52.299 --> 00:09:55.120 felt deeply peaceful to him. How is that even 00:09:55.120 --> 00:09:58.659 possible? Because in his telling, the filter 00:09:58.659 --> 00:10:00.799 was gone. The voice in the head that judges everything. 00:10:00.899 --> 00:10:03.000 That car's too loud. I hate this weather. I'm 00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:05.580 running late. That constant commentary had just 00:10:05.580 --> 00:10:07.740 shut off. The mental static was gone. It was 00:10:07.740 --> 00:10:10.620 gone. There was just pure presence. A deep, unshakable 00:10:10.620 --> 00:10:12.500 peace. And this wasn't just a good mood that 00:10:12.500 --> 00:10:15.019 wore off after a few hours? No, it stayed. It 00:10:15.019 --> 00:10:17.620 became his new baseline. But, you know, this 00:10:17.620 --> 00:10:20.480 profound internal shift had some very immediate 00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:23.259 external consequences. I can imagine. It's probably 00:10:23.259 --> 00:10:24.860 pretty hard to finish your Cambridge doctoral 00:10:24.860 --> 00:10:28.200 thesis when you're in a state of blissful oneness 00:10:28.200 --> 00:10:31.320 with a pencil. Exactly. The ambition, the drive 00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:34.240 to achieve, which is almost entirely ego -driven, 00:10:34.379 --> 00:10:37.700 it just vanished. So he dropped out of Cambridge. 00:10:37.860 --> 00:10:39.980 He just walked away. Stopped his studies immediately. 00:10:40.649 --> 00:10:43.389 And for the next two years, he enters this phase 00:10:43.389 --> 00:10:45.950 of his life that is, I think, the most confounding 00:10:45.950 --> 00:10:48.330 for people. The park bench years. The park bench 00:10:48.330 --> 00:10:51.389 years. He spent most of his time, day after day, 00:10:51.490 --> 00:10:53.509 just sitting on park benches in Russell Square 00:10:53.509 --> 00:10:56.269 in central London. Just sitting there? Just sitting. 00:10:56.370 --> 00:10:58.690 Watching the people, the traffic, the pigeons. 00:10:59.409 --> 00:11:02.149 He describes it as being in a continuous state 00:11:02.149 --> 00:11:04.889 of deep bliss. Okay, I have to ask the practical 00:11:04.889 --> 00:11:07.330 question. How did he eat? Where did he live? 00:11:07.370 --> 00:11:09.889 You can't pay rent with bliss. It was very precarious. 00:11:10.299 --> 00:11:11.940 He stayed with friends sometimes, ran a Buddhist 00:11:11.940 --> 00:11:14.259 monastery. He had some savings that he ran through. 00:11:14.799 --> 00:11:17.759 But the sources are very clear. There were periods 00:11:17.759 --> 00:11:20.360 where he was homeless. He slept rough on Hampstead 00:11:20.360 --> 00:11:23.120 Heath. A Cambridge Post graduate sleeping on 00:11:23.120 --> 00:11:25.860 Hampstead Heath? I mean, that's just, it's a 00:11:25.860 --> 00:11:28.539 shocking image. London is not a forgiving place 00:11:28.539 --> 00:11:32.379 to be homeless. No. It's cold. It's damp. From 00:11:32.379 --> 00:11:34.500 the outside, this looks like a complete and utter 00:11:34.500 --> 00:11:37.399 failure, a tragic breakdown. And his family, 00:11:37.600 --> 00:11:40.399 what did they think of all this? They were, as 00:11:40.399 --> 00:11:43.659 you can imagine, horrified. The sources say his 00:11:43.659 --> 00:11:46.659 family considered him irresponsible, even insane. 00:11:46.899 --> 00:11:48.659 And you can see their point of view, right? Oh, 00:11:48.659 --> 00:11:51.440 absolutely. From the outside, you don't see a 00:11:51.440 --> 00:11:53.980 mystic having a breakthrough. You see your brilliant 00:11:53.980 --> 00:11:56.460 son or brother who had a golden ticket to an 00:11:56.460 --> 00:11:58.799 academic career throwing it all in the bin to 00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:01.259 become essentially a vagrant. It's that classic 00:12:01.259 --> 00:12:03.580 line between enlightenment and madness. And it 00:12:03.580 --> 00:12:05.080 really depends on which side of the experience 00:12:05.080 --> 00:12:08.279 you're on. For him, it was liberation. For them, 00:12:08.279 --> 00:12:10.559 it was a disaster. So during this period, when 00:12:10.559 --> 00:12:14.039 does Ulrich Tolle become Eckhart Tolle? That 00:12:14.039 --> 00:12:16.419 happens during this transitional post -Cambridge 00:12:16.419 --> 00:12:19.480 phase. He changes his name from Ulrich to Eckhart. 00:12:19.600 --> 00:12:21.580 Now, the story behind the name is interesting 00:12:21.580 --> 00:12:23.840 because there are a couple of versions. The most 00:12:23.840 --> 00:12:25.980 common theory I've heard is that it's an homage 00:12:25.980 --> 00:12:30.000 to Meister Eckhart. Exactly. Meister Eckhart 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:34.120 was this major German Christian mystic from the 00:12:34.120 --> 00:12:37.350 13th century. A lot of his teachings about God 00:12:37.350 --> 00:12:40.309 and the soul and letting go have really strong 00:12:40.309 --> 00:12:43.610 parallels with Tully's own philosophy. It seems 00:12:43.610 --> 00:12:45.649 like a very logical, very obvious connection. 00:12:46.049 --> 00:12:48.769 But that's not Tully's story, is it? No, he tells 00:12:48.769 --> 00:12:52.169 a much more mystical version. He claims he had 00:12:52.169 --> 00:12:54.929 a dream where he saw a stack of books and the 00:12:54.929 --> 00:12:56.889 name on the spine of the topper was Eckhart. 00:12:57.399 --> 00:12:59.100 And in the dream, he just knew that he was the 00:12:59.100 --> 00:13:02.039 author. Okay. And then shortly after, he says 00:13:02.039 --> 00:13:04.559 he bumped into a psychic friend he knew. And 00:13:04.559 --> 00:13:07.000 she, completely out of the blue, started calling 00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:09.379 him Eckhart. She just said, I don't know why, 00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:11.100 but I'm supposed to call you Eckhart. That's 00:13:11.100 --> 00:13:13.100 a little too perfect. It's very synchronistic, 00:13:13.139 --> 00:13:15.580 isn't it? But he took it as a sign from the universe. 00:13:15.840 --> 00:13:18.279 He felt the name Ulrich was part of that old, 00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:20.639 heavy, depressed self that had died. Eckhart 00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:23.419 was the new beginning. Or the new non -self. 00:13:23.580 --> 00:13:25.960 It's a good story. It fits the brand. It does. 00:13:26.059 --> 00:13:28.179 It marks that final shedding of the old academic 00:13:28.179 --> 00:13:31.360 identity. So how does he transition from the 00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:35.539 park bench to actually doing something? How does 00:13:35.539 --> 00:13:37.720 he become a teacher? It seems to have happened 00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:40.220 very organically. He wasn't trying to start a 00:13:40.220 --> 00:13:42.580 movement. He was just this quiet, peaceful guy 00:13:42.580 --> 00:13:46.679 sitting in the park. But people he knew. Former 00:13:46.679 --> 00:13:48.980 students from Cambridge and acquaintances, they 00:13:48.980 --> 00:13:51.440 started to notice. They noticed he wasn't a wreck 00:13:51.440 --> 00:13:54.019 anymore. They noticed the change. They saw this 00:13:54.019 --> 00:13:56.860 profound stillness in him. They'd sit and talk 00:13:56.860 --> 00:13:58.320 with him and they started asking him questions. 00:13:58.460 --> 00:14:00.740 What happened to you? How are you so calm all 00:14:00.740 --> 00:14:03.299 the time? So he became an accidental spiritual 00:14:03.299 --> 00:14:05.419 counselor. Pretty much. He started working with 00:14:05.419 --> 00:14:08.500 small groups, then individuals. He did this for 00:14:08.500 --> 00:14:11.000 about five years in London, working as a counselor 00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:12.919 and a spiritual teacher. And then he moved to 00:14:12.919 --> 00:14:15.820 Glastonbury for a while. He did. Which, of course, 00:14:15.860 --> 00:14:17.440 if you're going to be a mystic in England, that's 00:14:17.440 --> 00:14:19.080 kind of the place to be. The new age capital 00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:22.919 of the UK. Exactly. And then in 1995, he makes 00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:25.659 the big jump. He moves to Vancouver, Canada. 00:14:25.960 --> 00:14:28.899 Why Vancouver? Any particular reason? He said 00:14:28.899 --> 00:14:30.740 he felt a connection to the west coast of North 00:14:30.740 --> 00:14:34.019 America, to the space and the nature there. He 00:14:34.019 --> 00:14:36.360 settled in Vancouver, and that's also where he 00:14:36.360 --> 00:14:39.299 met his future partner, Kim Eng, who is now a 00:14:39.299 --> 00:14:42.159 major teacher in her own right. within his organization 00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:44.820 and it's in vancouver that the next chapter begins 00:14:44.820 --> 00:14:48.379 the publishing chapter yes this is where he writes 00:14:48.379 --> 00:14:51.720 the power of now the book that changed everything 00:14:51.720 --> 00:14:53.419 the book that kicked it all off it was first 00:14:53.419 --> 00:14:55.919 published in 1997. was it an instant bestseller 00:14:55.919 --> 00:14:58.799 did it just explode onto the scene no not at 00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:01.139 all it was a very humble beginning it was first 00:15:01.139 --> 00:15:03.539 published by a tiny local company called namaste 00:15:03.539 --> 00:15:07.620 publishing The first print run was only 3 ,000 00:15:07.620 --> 00:15:10.379 copies. That's nothing. It's a garage operation. 00:15:10.740 --> 00:15:13.220 He was literally driving around Vancouver himself, 00:15:13.460 --> 00:15:16.120 dropping copies off at small independent bookstores. 00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:18.259 But people started reading it. People read it, 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:20.480 and they felt something, and then they told their 00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:22.960 friends to read it. It was pure word of mouth, 00:15:23.019 --> 00:15:25.200 and that word of mouth started to build until 00:15:25.200 --> 00:15:27.899 it got the attention of a bigger publisher. In 00:15:27.899 --> 00:15:31.059 1999, New World Library re -released it on a 00:15:31.059 --> 00:15:33.529 much larger scale. And that's when the momentum 00:15:33.529 --> 00:15:35.289 really started. That's when the rocket started 00:15:35.289 --> 00:15:37.769 to fuel up. It wasn't in orbit yet, but it was 00:15:37.769 --> 00:15:39.870 on the launch pad. So before we get to the full 00:15:39.870 --> 00:15:41.789 -blown explosion, let's just clarify what's actually 00:15:41.789 --> 00:15:44.750 in the book. What is the core philosophy? It's 00:15:44.750 --> 00:15:47.110 a synthesis, really. The sources are clear that 00:15:47.110 --> 00:15:49.850 he draws heavily from various traditions. Zen 00:15:49.850 --> 00:15:53.090 Buddhism is a huge one. Sufism, the mystical 00:15:53.090 --> 00:15:56.570 branch of Islam. Hinduism, specifically the non 00:15:56.570 --> 00:15:59.730 -dual school of Advaita Vedanta. And Christian 00:15:59.730 --> 00:16:02.549 mysticism, like Meister Eckhart. But he's not 00:16:02.549 --> 00:16:05.250 a Buddhist or a Christian himself. No, and this 00:16:05.250 --> 00:16:07.669 is a key part of his appeal. He remains completely 00:16:07.669 --> 00:16:10.549 unaffiliated with any single religion. He sort 00:16:10.549 --> 00:16:12.850 of distills what he sees as the essential truth 00:16:12.850 --> 00:16:15.889 from all of them. So he strips away the dogma, 00:16:15.889 --> 00:16:18.750 the rituals, the cultural baggage. Exactly. He 00:16:18.750 --> 00:16:21.210 gets it down to what he sees as the core mechanism 00:16:21.210 --> 00:16:24.009 of human suffering and the way out. The central 00:16:24.009 --> 00:16:26.870 goal is the dissolution of that mind -made self, 00:16:27.090 --> 00:16:29.950 the ego. He argues that all our unhappiness comes 00:16:29.950 --> 00:16:32.220 from our minds. Pretty much. That our minds are 00:16:32.220 --> 00:16:34.299 either obsessively dwelling on the past, which 00:16:34.299 --> 00:16:36.639 creates things like regret, guilt, resentment. 00:16:36.919 --> 00:16:39.340 Or anxiously projecting into the future, which 00:16:39.340 --> 00:16:43.820 creates fear, stress, worry. Right. And his radical 00:16:43.820 --> 00:16:46.019 claim is that the past and future are illusions. 00:16:46.659 --> 00:16:49.259 They don't actually exist anywhere except as 00:16:49.259 --> 00:16:51.879 thoughts in your head. The only thing that is 00:16:51.879 --> 00:16:55.960 ever real is this exact moment. The now. be here 00:16:55.960 --> 00:16:58.580 now it's a simple idea it's been said before 00:16:58.580 --> 00:17:01.659 it's incredibly simple to say but as he points 00:17:01.659 --> 00:17:05.039 out it's profoundly difficult to do i mean just 00:17:05.039 --> 00:17:07.240 try it try to stop your mind from thinking for 00:17:07.240 --> 00:17:09.720 even 10 seconds it's basically impossible the 00:17:09.720 --> 00:17:12.059 thoughts just keep coming right so the book is 00:17:12.059 --> 00:17:14.599 filled with techniques things like Watching the 00:17:14.599 --> 00:17:16.839 thinker, which means becoming the silent observer 00:17:16.839 --> 00:17:19.180 of your own thoughts instead of being lost in 00:17:19.180 --> 00:17:21.460 them. Feeling the inner body, which is a way 00:17:21.460 --> 00:17:23.220 of grounding yourself in physical sensation. 00:17:23.519 --> 00:17:26.380 And this message, this very simple but difficult 00:17:26.380 --> 00:17:29.180 message, clearly resonated with a lot of people 00:17:29.180 --> 00:17:31.220 who were just tired of their own mental chatter. 00:17:31.500 --> 00:17:34.259 It resonated deeply, and it especially resonated 00:17:34.259 --> 00:17:36.720 with one person who had the biggest megaphone 00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:39.460 on planet Earth. The Oprah effect. The Oprah 00:17:39.460 --> 00:17:42.910 effect. In the year 2000, Oprah Winfrey read 00:17:42.910 --> 00:17:45.789 The Power of Now and recommended it in her magazine 00:17:45.789 --> 00:17:48.349 O. And in the publishing world, that's like getting 00:17:48.349 --> 00:17:51.069 hit by a bolt of lightning, in a good way. It's 00:17:51.069 --> 00:17:53.309 the Midas touch. Everything she recommends turns 00:17:53.309 --> 00:17:56.609 to gold. So what did that do to the sales? It 00:17:56.609 --> 00:17:59.609 put the book on the map. In August 2000, it hit 00:17:59.609 --> 00:18:01.630 the New York Times bestseller list for the first 00:18:01.630 --> 00:18:05.509 time. Two years later, in 2002, it finally hit 00:18:05.509 --> 00:18:08.470 number one. Number one, five years after it was 00:18:08.470 --> 00:18:10.690 first public. That's incredible staying power. 00:18:10.930 --> 00:18:14.170 And it just kept selling. By 2008, it was in 00:18:14.170 --> 00:18:17.289 33 languages. As late as 2011, it was still on 00:18:17.289 --> 00:18:19.910 the paperback advice list after 102 weeks. Wow, 00:18:20.190 --> 00:18:22.230 but that was really just the warm -up act, wasn't 00:18:22.230 --> 00:18:24.529 it? Because his next major book, A New Earth, 00:18:24.710 --> 00:18:26.950 went even bigger. Oh, A New Earth was a different 00:18:26.950 --> 00:18:29.470 dimension of success. He wrote Stillness Speaks 00:18:29.470 --> 00:18:32.269 in 2003, which was a more meditative book. But 00:18:32.269 --> 00:18:34.690 A New Earth, which came out in 2005, was the 00:18:34.690 --> 00:18:37.349 one that Oprah truly embraced. In January 2008, 00:18:37.769 --> 00:18:39.369 she didn't just recommend it in her magazine. 00:18:39.509 --> 00:18:42.089 No, she selected it for her book club, which 00:18:42.089 --> 00:18:44.470 is the holy grail for any author. And the numbers 00:18:44.470 --> 00:18:46.509 that followed are just, they're hard to comprehend. 00:18:46.769 --> 00:18:49.349 They're staggering. In the first four weeks after 00:18:49.349 --> 00:18:53.069 her announcement, 3 .5 million copies of the 00:18:53.069 --> 00:18:55.670 book were shipped. Three and a half million in 00:18:55.670 --> 00:18:58.029 a month. That's like, that's Harry Potter numbers. 00:18:58.170 --> 00:18:59.970 It's a publishing phenomenon. Yeah. It was the 00:18:59.970 --> 00:19:01.849 number one book on the New York Times bestseller 00:19:01.849 --> 00:19:05.289 list 46 times in 2008 alone. But they didn't 00:19:05.289 --> 00:19:06.650 just stop at the book club. This is where they 00:19:06.650 --> 00:19:08.789 did something really groundbreaking for the time. 00:19:09.009 --> 00:19:11.140 They used the internet. This was 2008, remember? 00:19:11.220 --> 00:19:14.099 Streaming video was still relatively new. But 00:19:14.099 --> 00:19:17.440 Oprah and Eckhart produced a 10 -week online 00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:19.720 webinar series. So they would sit down together 00:19:19.720 --> 00:19:22.079 live and go through the book chapter by chapter. 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:24.539 Yes. They'd discuss the concepts. Tully would 00:19:24.539 --> 00:19:26.740 lead short meditations. And people could call 00:19:26.740 --> 00:19:29.279 in via Skype with questions. And did people tune 00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:32.039 in? In unbelievable numbers. The third webinar 00:19:32.039 --> 00:19:35.599 alone had more than 11 million unique viewers. 00:19:35.799 --> 00:19:38.259 11 million people. That's the population of a 00:19:38.259 --> 00:19:41.210 medium -sized country. all logging on to watch 00:19:41.210 --> 00:19:43.670 two people sit on couches and talk about the 00:19:43.670 --> 00:19:47.269 human ego. The servers literally crashed. The 00:19:47.269 --> 00:19:50.130 demand was so overwhelming. By the end of it 00:19:50.130 --> 00:19:54.150 all, by October 2009, those webinar classes had 00:19:54.150 --> 00:19:57.990 been accessed 35 million times. It was a global 00:19:57.990 --> 00:20:00.410 classroom. That partnership really cemented him 00:20:00.410 --> 00:20:03.630 as a spiritual superstar. It did. After that, 00:20:03.750 --> 00:20:06.950 the recognition just piled up. In 2011, the Watkins 00:20:06.950 --> 00:20:09.470 Review, which tracks this sort of thing, ranked 00:20:09.470 --> 00:20:11.769 him the number one most spiritually influential 00:20:11.769 --> 00:20:14.390 living person. The head of the Dalai Lama. That 00:20:14.390 --> 00:20:16.950 year, yes. And he's consistently been in their 00:20:16.950 --> 00:20:19.349 top five ever since, which is a feat only he 00:20:19.349 --> 00:20:21.109 and the Dalai Lama share. They've even appeared 00:20:21.109 --> 00:20:23.170 together, haven't they? They have. At the Vancouver 00:20:23.170 --> 00:20:25.930 Peace Summit in 2009, it creates this kind of 00:20:25.930 --> 00:20:29.029 surreal image, you know. The Dalai Lama, the 00:20:29.029 --> 00:20:30.950 head of a thousand -year -old religious lineage. 00:20:31.669 --> 00:20:33.930 Sharing a stage is an equal with the guy who 00:20:33.930 --> 00:20:36.049 used to sit on a park bench in London. It really 00:20:36.049 --> 00:20:38.470 speaks to the, I don't know, the democratization 00:20:38.470 --> 00:20:40.809 of spirituality in the modern West. That's a 00:20:40.809 --> 00:20:42.509 good way of putting it. You don't need the ancient 00:20:42.509 --> 00:20:44.769 tradition or the robes anymore. You just need 00:20:44.769 --> 00:20:46.710 the best -selling book and the aura of peace. 00:20:46.950 --> 00:20:49.609 And just to prove this isn't old news, Oprah 00:20:49.609 --> 00:20:52.309 recently went back to that well. She did. In 00:20:52.309 --> 00:20:55.210 January of 2025, just a little while ago, she 00:20:55.210 --> 00:20:57.890 selected A New Earth for her book club for a 00:20:57.890 --> 00:21:00.019 second time. Has she ever done that before in 00:21:00.019 --> 00:21:02.460 the history of the club? Never. It is the only 00:21:02.460 --> 00:21:05.680 book to ever be chosen twice. She clearly feels 00:21:05.680 --> 00:21:08.539 the message is as relevant, or maybe even more 00:21:08.539 --> 00:21:11.700 relevant, now than it was back in 2008. Okay. 00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:14.599 So the success is undeniable. The reach is global. 00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:18.059 But you don't get that big without attracting 00:21:18.059 --> 00:21:21.180 some serious criticism. Not a chance. The bigger 00:21:21.180 --> 00:21:23.000 the phenomenon, the bigger the target on your 00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:25.289 back. So let's shift gears and talk about that 00:21:25.289 --> 00:21:27.410 critical reception, because it is, as we said, 00:21:27.529 --> 00:21:30.109 deeply polarized. It really is. And the critiques 00:21:30.109 --> 00:21:31.849 tend to fall into a few different camps. You've 00:21:31.849 --> 00:21:34.190 got the people who critique his style and his 00:21:34.190 --> 00:21:35.970 originality, and then you have the much more 00:21:35.970 --> 00:21:38.250 intense theological critiques. Let's start with 00:21:38.250 --> 00:21:40.509 the fans. What did the supporters say makes him 00:21:40.509 --> 00:21:42.970 so special? The word that comes up over and over 00:21:42.970 --> 00:21:46.730 again is accessibility. Reviewers like Carter 00:21:46.730 --> 00:21:49.309 Phipps praise his clear writing and the depth 00:21:49.309 --> 00:21:51.900 of his insight. The argument being that... The 00:21:51.900 --> 00:21:54.680 original source material, like ancient Zen texts 00:21:54.680 --> 00:21:57.779 or Sufi poetry, can be really difficult to penetrate 00:21:57.779 --> 00:22:00.700 for a modern reader. Exactly. They're dense, 00:22:00.759 --> 00:22:03.299 they're culturally specific, they're often paradoxical. 00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:05.799 Writers like William Bloom and Judith Kendra 00:22:05.799 --> 00:22:08.519 credit Tolle with creating a contemporary synthesis. 00:22:08.920 --> 00:22:12.579 He takes these arcane ancient teachings and translates 00:22:12.579 --> 00:22:15.359 them into a language that a 21st century person 00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:17.339 in the West can actually understand and apply. 00:22:17.640 --> 00:22:20.420 He's the great simplifier, the translator. Right. 00:22:20.750 --> 00:22:23.170 But that very act of simplification is what his 00:22:23.170 --> 00:22:25.690 critics absolutely despise. They see it as dumbing 00:22:25.690 --> 00:22:29.650 down. Or worse. In 2003, Andrea Sachs, writing 00:22:29.650 --> 00:22:31.789 for Time magazine, famously dismissed The Power 00:22:31.789 --> 00:22:35.049 of Now as being a wash in spiritual mumbo jumbo. 00:22:35.089 --> 00:22:37.589 Mumbo jumbo. That's a pretty brutal takedown. 00:22:37.650 --> 00:22:39.930 It suggests it's just meaningless feel -good 00:22:39.930 --> 00:22:41.970 nonsense. It does. It implies it's just a word 00:22:41.970 --> 00:22:44.210 salad of vague platitudes. And then you have 00:22:44.210 --> 00:22:46.150 critics like James Robinson from The Observer 00:22:46.150 --> 00:22:49.240 who called his work a hodgepodge of pseudoscience, 00:22:49.339 --> 00:22:51.240 new age philosophy and teaching borrowed from 00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:53.619 established religions. The borrowed part is key 00:22:53.619 --> 00:22:56.160 there. The accusation isn't just that it's simple, 00:22:56.279 --> 00:22:58.660 but that it's unoriginal. That's a huge part 00:22:58.660 --> 00:23:00.779 of the critique. Yeah. That he's not actually 00:23:00.779 --> 00:23:03.859 saying anything new. He's just remixing the Buddha, 00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:07.119 Jesus, Krishnamurti and Meister Eckhart and presenting 00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:10.039 it as this grand revelation. Like a greatest 00:23:10.039 --> 00:23:12.500 hits album of Eastern spirituality. Precisely. 00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:14.960 and making an awful lot of money in the process, 00:23:15.099 --> 00:23:17.799 which fuels the cynicism. And some people argue 00:23:17.799 --> 00:23:19.740 his success has nothing to do with the content 00:23:19.740 --> 00:23:22.819 at all. Right. Sarah Nelson from Publishers Weekly 00:23:22.819 --> 00:23:24.680 made the argument that his success was really 00:23:24.680 --> 00:23:27.500 about market timing. He came along at the perfect 00:23:27.500 --> 00:23:29.599 moment when public interest in self -help and 00:23:29.599 --> 00:23:32.440 spirituality was surging, but traditional church 00:23:32.440 --> 00:23:35.140 attendance was declining. He was the right product 00:23:35.140 --> 00:23:37.859 for a specific cultural need. So on one side, 00:23:37.980 --> 00:23:40.819 he's a genius who makes profound wisdom accessible. 00:23:41.119 --> 00:23:43.799 On the other, he's a derivative New Age guru 00:23:43.799 --> 00:23:46.599 who got lucky. And that's just the secular debate. 00:23:46.799 --> 00:23:48.500 When you get into the theological arguments, 00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:50.839 it gets much, much more heated. This is where 00:23:50.839 --> 00:23:53.279 things get really contentious, right? Because 00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:56.259 he freely quotes the Bible, he talks about Jesus 00:23:56.259 --> 00:23:59.720 and Christ's consciousness, but he is definitively 00:23:59.720 --> 00:24:03.680 not a Christian. And that fact creates this fascinating 00:24:03.680 --> 00:24:07.259 split within the Christian world itself. Some 00:24:07.259 --> 00:24:09.799 theologians see him as an ally, while others 00:24:09.799 --> 00:24:12.640 see him as a profound threat. Let's talk about 00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:15.190 the allies first. Who are the bridge builders, 00:24:15.430 --> 00:24:17.869 the Christian thinkers who are defending Eckhart 00:24:17.869 --> 00:24:20.250 Tolle? You have people like the theologian Andrew 00:24:20.250 --> 00:24:23.349 Ryder, who argues that even if Tolle doesn't 00:24:23.349 --> 00:24:26.230 use the traditional language of faith, he's helping 00:24:26.230 --> 00:24:28.910 people get back in touch with the deepest source 00:24:28.910 --> 00:24:31.349 of being. So the idea is that he's keeping a 00:24:31.349 --> 00:24:33.869 spiritual spark alive for people who have walked 00:24:33.869 --> 00:24:36.710 away from the church. Yes, that he's a gateway. 00:24:37.250 --> 00:24:39.490 Stafford Betty, a scholar of religion, draws 00:24:39.490 --> 00:24:42.529 direct lines between Tully's joy of being and 00:24:42.529 --> 00:24:45.000 the goals of the great Christian mystics. He 00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:47.339 argues that the stillness Tolle describes is 00:24:47.339 --> 00:24:49.779 the same contemplative silence that figures like 00:24:49.779 --> 00:24:51.700 St. John of the Cross were seeking. And then 00:24:51.700 --> 00:24:54.440 there's a really big name, Richard Rohr. A huge 00:24:54.440 --> 00:24:58.079 name. Richard Rohr is a Franciscan friar, a major 00:24:58.079 --> 00:25:00.819 Catholic author. And he goes so far as to credit 00:25:00.819 --> 00:25:04.339 Tolle with helping to reintroduce ancient Christian 00:25:04.339 --> 00:25:07.599 mystical practices to modern believers. How does 00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:10.180 he figure that? Rohr's argument is that a lot 00:25:10.180 --> 00:25:12.599 of modern Christianity has become very intellectual, 00:25:12.839 --> 00:25:15.319 very doctrinal. It's about believing the correct 00:25:15.319 --> 00:25:18.140 list of things. It's all happening in the head. 00:25:18.539 --> 00:25:21.160 He sees Tolle as someone who helps people break 00:25:21.160 --> 00:25:24.619 through that mental noise to experience God directly 00:25:24.619 --> 00:25:27.519 through contemplation rather than just thinking 00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:30.220 about God. So Rohr sees him as a tool to help 00:25:30.220 --> 00:25:32.259 Christians get back to the experiential roots 00:25:32.259 --> 00:25:34.829 of their own faith. As a catalyst, yes. to move 00:25:34.829 --> 00:25:37.190 from belief to experience. Okay, that's the pro 00:25:37.190 --> 00:25:39.230 -Christian argument. What about the con side? 00:25:39.470 --> 00:25:41.630 I have to assume the evangelical world is not 00:25:41.630 --> 00:25:44.190 throwing a party for him. The con side argues 00:25:44.190 --> 00:25:46.109 that Tully's teachings are not just different 00:25:46.109 --> 00:25:48.750 from Christianity, but are fundamentally incompatible 00:25:48.750 --> 00:25:51.369 with it, and even dangerous. Dangerous how? Well, 00:25:51.430 --> 00:25:53.410 take James Beverly, an evangelical professor. 00:25:53.789 --> 00:25:57.450 He argues that Tully's entire system denies the 00:25:57.450 --> 00:25:59.509 most central convictions of the Christian faith, 00:25:59.789 --> 00:26:03.250 specifically the distinction between human beings, 00:26:03.430 --> 00:26:07.289 God, And Jesus. Because Tull preaches a message 00:26:07.289 --> 00:26:10.690 of oneness. Exactly. Tully says we are all part 00:26:10.690 --> 00:26:14.009 of one divine consciousness. We are God. That 00:26:14.009 --> 00:26:16.309 sounds lovely and inclusive, but for an Orthodox 00:26:16.309 --> 00:26:19.490 Christian, that's a red line. Because it erases 00:26:19.490 --> 00:26:21.549 the distinction between the creator and the creation. 00:26:21.869 --> 00:26:24.799 It completely erases it. If we are God, then 00:26:24.799 --> 00:26:27.160 the entire Christian story of sin, separation 00:26:27.160 --> 00:26:29.299 from God, and the need for redemption through 00:26:29.299 --> 00:26:32.440 Christ becomes meaningless. Tully says we don't 00:26:32.440 --> 00:26:34.599 need redemption from a savior. We just need to 00:26:34.599 --> 00:26:37.519 realize we were divine all along. That is a massive, 00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:40.839 unbridgeable theological gap. It is. And then 00:26:40.839 --> 00:26:43.079 you get the even stronger accusation from the 00:26:43.079 --> 00:26:45.200 theologian John Stackhouse. The supreme religion 00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:47.740 argument. That's the one. Stackhouse accuses 00:26:47.740 --> 00:26:50.200 Tola of creating his own supreme religion that 00:26:50.200 --> 00:26:52.740 positions itself as being superior to all existing 00:26:52.740 --> 00:26:55.240 faiths. So the whole I'm not affiliated with 00:26:55.240 --> 00:26:57.740 any religion stance is actually a claim of being 00:26:57.740 --> 00:27:00.640 above all religions. That's Stackhouse's argument. 00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:03.799 He says Tola's approach is to subject all established 00:27:03.799 --> 00:27:06.740 religions to this withering criticism, point 00:27:06.740 --> 00:27:09.819 out their flaws. And then present his own distilled 00:27:09.819 --> 00:27:13.119 teaching as the one pure universal truth that 00:27:13.119 --> 00:27:15.599 they all fail to grasp. It's seen as a kind of 00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:18.960 intellectual arrogance masked as humility. Yes. 00:27:19.019 --> 00:27:21.859 And Stackhouse says this gives people exactly 00:27:21.859 --> 00:27:25.460 what the modern ego wants. Spirituality. without 00:27:25.460 --> 00:27:27.680 any of the difficult parts. Spirituality without 00:27:27.680 --> 00:27:30.119 accountability. Exactly. You get the peace and 00:27:30.119 --> 00:27:32.519 the good feelings, but you don't have the accountability 00:27:32.519 --> 00:27:35.299 of a community, the demands of service, or the 00:27:35.299 --> 00:27:38.359 weight of a historical tradition. It's a pick 00:27:38.359 --> 00:27:40.599 -and -choose spirituality that's all about personal 00:27:40.599 --> 00:27:43.079 feeling. That's a very heavy charge. Does Tull 00:27:43.079 --> 00:27:45.319 ever engage with these critics? Does he debate 00:27:45.319 --> 00:27:48.240 them? Almost never. His public stance is to remain 00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:50.539 above the fray. He would view these theological 00:27:50.539 --> 00:27:53.910 debates as just more mind stuff. More ego battling 00:27:53.910 --> 00:27:56.450 against ego. Which is a very convenient position 00:27:56.450 --> 00:27:58.470 to take, isn't it? If you criticize me, that's 00:27:58.470 --> 00:28:00.109 just proof that your ego is running the show. 00:28:00.349 --> 00:28:03.630 It is the perfect, unassailable defense. But, 00:28:03.710 --> 00:28:06.490 to be fair, it is entirely consistent with his 00:28:06.490 --> 00:28:08.690 core philosophy. And yet, for a man who claims 00:28:08.690 --> 00:28:10.829 to be beyond all that, he does pop up in some 00:28:10.829 --> 00:28:13.549 very unexpected, very mainstream places. He really 00:28:13.549 --> 00:28:16.049 does. Which brings us to his surprising relevance 00:28:16.049 --> 00:28:19.089 in pop culture. We're not just talking about 00:28:19.089 --> 00:28:22.029 Opu's book club anymore. No, we're talking about... 00:28:22.269 --> 00:28:25.670 Of all things hip hop. Kendrick Lamar. This was 00:28:25.670 --> 00:28:27.349 a genuine shock to me when I was reading the 00:28:27.349 --> 00:28:31.410 sources. Kendrick Lamar's 2022 album, Mr. Morale 00:28:31.410 --> 00:28:33.869 and the Big Steppers. A landmark album. It's 00:28:33.869 --> 00:28:36.230 dense. It's confessional. It's about generational 00:28:36.230 --> 00:28:40.029 trauma, therapy, infidelity, the crushing weight 00:28:40.029 --> 00:28:42.390 of fame. And Eckhart Tolle is a narrator on it. 00:28:42.470 --> 00:28:44.990 He's not just an influence. His voice is woven 00:28:44.990 --> 00:28:47.170 throughout the entire album. He is positioned 00:28:47.170 --> 00:28:50.359 as Kendrick's spiritual teacher. his guide through 00:28:50.359 --> 00:28:52.740 this incredibly painful psychological journey 00:28:52.740 --> 00:28:54.920 that the album chronicles. It's wild. You have 00:28:54.920 --> 00:28:57.579 arguably the most important, critically acclaimed 00:28:57.579 --> 00:29:00.279 rapper of his generation, known for his raw, 00:29:00.420 --> 00:29:02.920 gritty storytelling, turning to the quiet man 00:29:02.920 --> 00:29:05.440 from the park bench for guidance. It just shows 00:29:05.440 --> 00:29:08.099 you how far these ideas have penetrated. This 00:29:08.099 --> 00:29:10.740 isn't just for a specific demographic of spiritual 00:29:10.740 --> 00:29:13.220 seekers anymore. It's reached the very heart 00:29:13.220 --> 00:29:15.809 of popular culture. Why do you think Kendrick 00:29:15.809 --> 00:29:18.849 Lamar, of all people, gravitated to Tully's work? 00:29:19.109 --> 00:29:21.230 A lot of the album is about what Tully calls 00:29:21.230 --> 00:29:23.509 the pain body. That's one of his major concepts, 00:29:23.670 --> 00:29:26.589 this idea that we all carry a semi -dormant energy 00:29:26.589 --> 00:29:29.230 field of accumulated emotional pain from our 00:29:29.230 --> 00:29:31.490 past. And that pain body can be triggered and 00:29:31.490 --> 00:29:33.769 take you over. Right. And Kendrick's album is 00:29:33.769 --> 00:29:36.529 a deep, painful exploration of the pain body 00:29:36.529 --> 00:29:39.490 in himself, in his family, in his community. 00:29:40.519 --> 00:29:42.799 Tolley's work gave him a framework and a language 00:29:42.799 --> 00:29:45.920 to deconstruct that trauma in real time for his 00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:48.319 listeners. It really proves the accessibility 00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:50.839 argument of his supporters, doesn't it? That 00:29:50.839 --> 00:29:53.019 language works just as well on a Pulitzer -winning 00:29:53.019 --> 00:29:55.519 rap album as it does in a self -help book. It's 00:29:55.519 --> 00:29:57.460 incredibly versatile. And there was also a movie, 00:29:57.500 --> 00:29:59.359 wasn't there, based on one of his books? Yes, 00:29:59.400 --> 00:30:01.420 a children's book he wrote called Milton's Secret. 00:30:01.559 --> 00:30:04.279 It was adapted into a film in 2016. And it had 00:30:04.279 --> 00:30:06.460 some big names in it. Donald Sutherland was in 00:30:06.460 --> 00:30:09.779 it. And, somewhat surprisingly... Michelle Rodriguez. 00:30:10.220 --> 00:30:12.180 Michelle Rodriguez from the Fast and Furious 00:30:12.180 --> 00:30:15.240 movies. The very same. It wasn't a huge box office 00:30:15.240 --> 00:30:17.839 hit, but it shows the effort to translate this 00:30:17.839 --> 00:30:21.000 message into every possible medium. Books, webinars, 00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:23.740 music, children's films. Okay, so let's try to 00:30:23.740 --> 00:30:26.039 tie this all together. We've gone from the origin, 00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:29.759 the despair, to the rise, the global fame, the 00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:32.539 intense controversy, and the deep cultural impact. 00:30:32.900 --> 00:30:35.960 From the void of 1977 to being the voice of spiritual 00:30:35.960 --> 00:30:38.579 guidance on a Kendrick Lamar album, it's quite 00:30:38.579 --> 00:30:40.880 a journey. It really is. And it leaves us with 00:30:40.880 --> 00:30:42.599 that core tension we've been circling the whole 00:30:42.599 --> 00:30:45.859 time. Is he, as his critics say, just a clever 00:30:45.859 --> 00:30:48.880 repackager of other people's ideas? A purveyor 00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:51.279 of mumbo jumbo who got a lucky break with Oprah? 00:30:51.480 --> 00:30:54.480 Or is he, as his supporters would argue, a necessary 00:30:54.480 --> 00:30:57.440 translator for our time? A man who makes ancient 00:30:57.440 --> 00:30:59.579 wisdom accessible for a modern world that is 00:30:59.579 --> 00:31:01.920 drowning in anxiety and distraction. A world 00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:04.240 that maybe can't or won't read the dense original 00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:08.680 texts. Exactly. Maybe in 2025, you need... the 00:31:08.680 --> 00:31:11.140 calm guy in the sweater vest on youtube to just 00:31:11.140 --> 00:31:13.400 tell you to take a deep breath and notice the 00:31:13.400 --> 00:31:15.539 feeling in your hands maybe that's the entry 00:31:15.539 --> 00:31:18.900 point now it brings up one final i think provocative 00:31:18.900 --> 00:31:21.259 thought for me a question to leave everyone listening 00:31:21.259 --> 00:31:24.259 with let's hear it tully's entire spiritual journey 00:31:24.259 --> 00:31:27.119 his whole philosophy it's built on the epiphany 00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:30.869 that the self The ego, the personality, is a 00:31:30.869 --> 00:31:33.690 mind -made illusion, and that this illusion is 00:31:33.690 --> 00:31:36.349 the root cause of all human suffering. Right. 00:31:36.390 --> 00:31:38.250 The self isn't something to be fixed. It's the 00:31:38.250 --> 00:31:41.569 problem itself. And yet, we live in a society 00:31:41.569 --> 00:31:44.890 that is completely pathologically obsessed with 00:31:44.890 --> 00:31:47.170 the self. Finding yourself, building your personal 00:31:47.170 --> 00:31:50.269 brand, living your truth, self -care. We worship 00:31:50.269 --> 00:31:52.309 the self. Self -actualization has become the 00:31:52.309 --> 00:31:54.759 dominant religion of the West. Precisely. But 00:31:54.759 --> 00:31:57.160 if Tully is even remotely correct, then all of 00:31:57.160 --> 00:32:00.059 that effort we pour into curating our identities 00:32:00.059 --> 00:32:02.539 on social media, building our careers, crafting 00:32:02.539 --> 00:32:05.039 our personal narrative, it's just building a 00:32:05.039 --> 00:32:07.000 more elaborate, more comfortable prison. We're 00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:08.940 just reinforcing the very thing that he says 00:32:08.940 --> 00:32:12.059 causes the pain. So the question is, what if 00:32:12.059 --> 00:32:14.500 the goal isn't to find yourself or build yourself 00:32:14.500 --> 00:32:17.240 or improve yourself? What if the real path to 00:32:17.240 --> 00:32:19.880 peace is to let the self collapse? The way he 00:32:19.880 --> 00:32:23.539 did on that night in 1977. Exactly. It's a terrifying 00:32:23.539 --> 00:32:25.680 thought for most of us, the death of who we think 00:32:25.680 --> 00:32:28.480 we are. But for him, that was the beginning of 00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:30.400 everything. It's a question worth sitting with. 00:32:30.980 --> 00:32:33.579 In silence, perhaps. Something to think about 00:32:33.579 --> 00:32:35.000 the next time you're trying to figure out the 00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:37.000 perfect Instagram caption. Are you building the 00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:39.859 cage or are you looking for the door? A powerful 00:32:39.859 --> 00:32:42.539 thought. That's it for this deep dive into the 00:32:42.539 --> 00:32:45.519 quiet explosion of Eckhart Tolle. Thanks for 00:32:45.519 --> 00:32:46.839 listening. We'll see you on the now.