WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.620 Welcome back to the Deep Dive. Today we are clearing 00:00:03.620 --> 00:00:06.759 the decks. Usually we tackle a specific event, 00:00:06.980 --> 00:00:09.019 a scientific breakthrough, maybe a historical 00:00:09.019 --> 00:00:12.259 mystery. Yeah. But today we are looking at a 00:00:12.259 --> 00:00:16.039 human being. Although, frankly, after reading 00:00:16.039 --> 00:00:18.739 through this stack of sources, I'm starting to 00:00:18.739 --> 00:00:20.820 wonder if human being is too small a category. 00:00:21.059 --> 00:00:23.899 It feels inadequate, doesn't it? We are talking 00:00:23.899 --> 00:00:26.469 about a figure who... didn't just participate 00:00:26.469 --> 00:00:29.629 in his field, he dismantled it. He took the American 00:00:29.629 --> 00:00:32.289 musical theater, stripped it down to the studs, 00:00:32.310 --> 00:00:35.270 looked at the rusty wiring. And rewired the entire 00:00:35.270 --> 00:00:37.869 thing to run on a completely different power 00:00:37.869 --> 00:00:40.210 source. That's it, exactly. We are, of course, 00:00:40.229 --> 00:00:42.130 talking about Stephen Sondheim. And I want to 00:00:42.130 --> 00:00:44.049 be clear right off the bat, this isn't just a 00:00:44.049 --> 00:00:45.630 greatest hits episode. We aren't just going to 00:00:45.630 --> 00:00:48.009 list the songs you know. No, no. The mission 00:00:48.009 --> 00:00:50.289 today is to unpack the mind that created them. 00:00:50.490 --> 00:00:53.009 Because the more I read, the more I realized 00:00:53.009 --> 00:00:55.609 that Sondheim wasn't just a composer. He was 00:00:55.609 --> 00:00:58.289 a mathematician. He was a puzzle addict. He was 00:00:58.289 --> 00:01:00.369 a structural engineer who just happened to build 00:01:00.369 --> 00:01:03.030 with music instead of steel. That is the perfect 00:01:03.030 --> 00:01:05.189 framing. I mean, if you look at Broadway before 00:01:05.189 --> 00:01:07.969 Sondheim, the Rogers and Hammerstein era, and 00:01:07.969 --> 00:01:10.329 then you look at it after, they look like two 00:01:10.329 --> 00:01:12.709 different planets. Totally different. And Sondheim 00:01:12.709 --> 00:01:15.090 is the gravitational force that caused that shift. 00:01:15.269 --> 00:01:17.469 And just to set the stakes for anyone who might 00:01:17.469 --> 00:01:19.609 only know him from a movie adaptation or two, 00:01:19.730 --> 00:01:22.629 the hardware this man collected is absurd. It's 00:01:22.629 --> 00:01:26.510 a heavy trophy shelf. eight Tony Awards, which 00:01:26.510 --> 00:01:28.450 is more than any other composer, plus a special 00:01:28.450 --> 00:01:30.489 Tony for Lifetime Achievement. And that's just 00:01:30.489 --> 00:01:33.629 the start. Oh, yeah. Eight Grammys, an Academy 00:01:33.629 --> 00:01:37.730 Award, five Olivier Awards in the UK, the Kennedy 00:01:37.730 --> 00:01:40.510 Center Honors, and the Presidential Medal of 00:01:40.510 --> 00:01:42.670 Freedom. It's a list that just screams institution. 00:01:43.409 --> 00:01:46.510 But the irony, which I hope we get into, is that 00:01:46.510 --> 00:01:48.549 he spent most of his career feeling like an outsider. 00:01:48.890 --> 00:01:51.510 Constantly. He reinvented the musical to tackle 00:01:51.510 --> 00:01:54.000 subjects that, you know... No one thought belonged 00:01:54.000 --> 00:01:58.019 on a stage. Assassins. Cannibalism. The crushing 00:01:58.019 --> 00:02:01.420 ambivalence of modern marriage. Exactly. He took 00:02:01.420 --> 00:02:04.799 a medium that was historically about escapism, 00:02:04.799 --> 00:02:08.099 you know, Oklahoma, where the corn is as high 00:02:08.099 --> 00:02:09.900 as an elephant's eye, and he dragged it kicking 00:02:09.900 --> 00:02:11.819 and screaming into the psychological shadows. 00:02:12.060 --> 00:02:14.580 Right. But to understand how he did that, though, 00:02:14.699 --> 00:02:16.620 we have to look at where he came from. And I 00:02:16.620 --> 00:02:18.379 have to say, the source material on his childhood 00:02:18.379 --> 00:02:22.039 is... Well, it's harrowing. It really is. It 00:02:22.039 --> 00:02:24.379 reads like a gothic horror story set on the Upper 00:02:24.379 --> 00:02:27.300 West Side of Manhattan. So let's go back. It's 00:02:27.300 --> 00:02:31.000 1930, New York City. Wait, Stephen is born to 00:02:31.000 --> 00:02:33.960 affluent Jewish parents. They're in the garment 00:02:33.960 --> 00:02:36.400 industry, very successful. And he grows up in 00:02:36.400 --> 00:02:39.259 the San Remo on Central Park West. Which, if 00:02:39.259 --> 00:02:40.979 you know New York architecture, is one of the 00:02:40.979 --> 00:02:42.919 most prestigious, beautiful buildings in the 00:02:42.919 --> 00:02:46.639 city. Twin towers, views of the park. On paper, 00:02:46.819 --> 00:02:48.580 Stephen Sondheim won the lottery. He's living 00:02:48.580 --> 00:02:51.500 in a palace. But the emotional reality inside 00:02:51.500 --> 00:02:55.139 that palace was a vacuum. His parents divorced 00:02:55.139 --> 00:02:57.539 when he was young, and his father left him in 00:02:57.539 --> 00:02:59.780 the custody of his mother, Etta Janet. And she 00:02:59.780 --> 00:03:02.439 went by the nickname Foxy. Foxy. And that nickname, 00:03:02.759 --> 00:03:06.419 Foxy, seems to cover a very sharp, very predatory 00:03:06.419 --> 00:03:10.340 nature. The relationship was, by all modern definitions, 00:03:10.680 --> 00:03:14.080 psychologically abusive. The sources suggest 00:03:14.080 --> 00:03:16.360 she projected all the rage she felt toward her 00:03:16.360 --> 00:03:19.379 ex -husband directly onto Stephen. It was this 00:03:19.379 --> 00:03:21.800 really disturbing dynamic where she would, like, 00:03:21.860 --> 00:03:24.599 belittle him constantly, but also kind of flirt 00:03:24.599 --> 00:03:26.479 with him. It's just, it's deeply uncomfortable 00:03:26.479 --> 00:03:29.460 to read about. Yes. She used him as a substitute 00:03:29.460 --> 00:03:31.840 for the absent father, someone to berate, but 00:03:31.840 --> 00:03:34.900 also someone to demand attention from. It was 00:03:34.900 --> 00:03:38.580 confusing and so damaging. But there is one specific 00:03:38.580 --> 00:03:41.560 detail in the notes that actually made me gasp. 00:03:41.960 --> 00:03:44.479 It involves a letter. I know exactly the one 00:03:44.479 --> 00:03:45.919 you're talking about. This wasn't when he was 00:03:45.919 --> 00:03:47.580 a kid. This was when he was an adult, right? 00:03:47.639 --> 00:03:49.500 He was in his 40s. He was about to go into heart 00:03:49.500 --> 00:03:52.300 surgery, a serious operation. And the night before 00:03:52.300 --> 00:03:54.699 the surgery, his mother, Foxy, wrote him a letter. 00:03:54.939 --> 00:03:57.500 And what did it say? In this letter, she explicitly 00:03:57.500 --> 00:03:59.819 stated that her only regret in life was giving 00:03:59.819 --> 00:04:03.539 birth to him. Oh, my God. Can you imagine you 00:04:03.539 --> 00:04:06.300 are facing a life -threatening surgery and your 00:04:06.300 --> 00:04:07.860 mother hands you a note saying, essentially, 00:04:08.020 --> 00:04:11.990 I wish you didn't exist? It's just... It's devastating. 00:04:12.310 --> 00:04:14.889 And it explains so much about his work, about 00:04:14.889 --> 00:04:17.209 the themes of isolation and the desperate need 00:04:17.209 --> 00:04:19.589 for connection. He essentially estranged himself 00:04:19.589 --> 00:04:22.329 from her for nearly 20 years after that. When 00:04:22.329 --> 00:04:24.910 she died in 1992, he didn't go to her funeral. 00:04:25.089 --> 00:04:29.069 He did not. So you have to picture this. A brilliant, 00:04:29.269 --> 00:04:32.230 wealthy, incredibly isolated boy living in this 00:04:32.230 --> 00:04:35.069 big, empty apartment, trying to make sense of 00:04:35.069 --> 00:04:37.529 a world that feels hostile. And when you are 00:04:37.529 --> 00:04:39.850 that isolated, you become an observer. You watch, 00:04:39.949 --> 00:04:42.569 you listen. And that leads us to this spark. 00:04:43.180 --> 00:04:45.899 He's nine years old and he sees a show called 00:04:45.899 --> 00:04:48.560 Very Warm for May. And this is such a telling 00:04:48.560 --> 00:04:51.160 detail about his brain. Most kids go to their 00:04:51.160 --> 00:04:53.680 first musical and they are dazzled by the star 00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:56.060 or the costumes or the big tap dance number. 00:04:56.339 --> 00:04:58.079 Right, the spectacle of it all. But Sondheim 00:04:58.079 --> 00:04:59.959 didn't care about that. He remembers a specific 00:04:59.959 --> 00:05:02.519 moment where a butler on stage was dusting a 00:05:02.519 --> 00:05:05.319 piano. A butler dusting a piano? Yes. The butler 00:05:05.319 --> 00:05:07.600 dusted the keys and the piano made a sound. It 00:05:07.600 --> 00:05:09.920 tinkled. And Sondheim, as a nine -year -old, 00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:13.149 found that specific theatrical mechanism. Why 00:05:13.149 --> 00:05:15.850 that? What was so thrilling about it? Because 00:05:15.850 --> 00:05:18.750 it wasn't magic. It was a machine working. It 00:05:18.750 --> 00:05:21.689 was cause and effect. He saw that theater was 00:05:21.689 --> 00:05:23.750 a constructed reality, and he wanted to know 00:05:23.750 --> 00:05:26.009 how the construction worked. He wanted to see 00:05:26.009 --> 00:05:28.990 the gears turning. So you have the trauma, which 00:05:28.990 --> 00:05:31.410 creates the observer, and you have the spark 00:05:31.410 --> 00:05:34.230 of interest in the mechanics of it all. Now you 00:05:34.230 --> 00:05:36.810 need the guide. The teacher. And this part of 00:05:36.810 --> 00:05:40.519 the story is almost Dickensian. The lonely boy 00:05:40.519 --> 00:05:43.980 finds a surrogate father. And it just so happens 00:05:43.980 --> 00:05:46.839 that the surrogate father is literally the most 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:49.399 famous man in American theater. You couldn't 00:05:49.399 --> 00:05:51.439 write this in a script. It would feel too convenient. 00:05:51.920 --> 00:05:54.180 Sondheim becomes best friends with a kid named 00:05:54.180 --> 00:05:56.480 James Hammerstein. Jimmy. Jimmy Hammerstein. 00:05:56.540 --> 00:06:00.379 And Jimmy's dad is Oscar Hammerstein II, the 00:06:00.379 --> 00:06:03.480 man who wrote Oklahoma, South Pacific, The Sound 00:06:03.480 --> 00:06:06.420 of Music, the absolute titan of the Golden Age. 00:06:06.620 --> 00:06:08.060 And they were neighbors in Pennsylvania, right? 00:06:08.120 --> 00:06:10.069 That's how it started. That's right. Sondheim's 00:06:10.069 --> 00:06:12.110 mother bought a farmhouse out there, which happened 00:06:12.110 --> 00:06:14.529 to be near the Hammersteins. And Oster saw this 00:06:14.529 --> 00:06:17.689 lonely, brilliant kid and basically took him 00:06:17.689 --> 00:06:19.769 under his wing. He became the father Sondheim 00:06:19.769 --> 00:06:23.009 never had. Absolutely. But, and this is crucial, 00:06:23.209 --> 00:06:26.129 it wasn't a pat on the head, good job kid kind 00:06:26.129 --> 00:06:28.750 of mentorship. This was a boot camp. I love the 00:06:28.750 --> 00:06:30.949 story about the first musical Sondheim wrote 00:06:30.949 --> 00:06:35.519 by George. He's what, a teenager? He's 15. He 00:06:35.519 --> 00:06:37.759 writes a musical at his prep school, the George 00:06:37.759 --> 00:06:40.540 School. He thinks it's fantastic, the best thing 00:06:40.540 --> 00:06:42.620 ever written. Of course he does, he's 15. And 00:06:42.620 --> 00:06:45.500 he brings it to Hammerstein and says, very boldly, 00:06:45.860 --> 00:06:48.079 I want you to treat this like a professional 00:06:48.079 --> 00:06:50.839 manuscript. Don't look at me as your son's friend. 00:06:51.040 --> 00:06:53.660 Judge it as if you don't know the author. Wow. 00:06:54.279 --> 00:06:56.920 That is a dangerous thing to ask a legend. Please 00:06:56.920 --> 00:06:59.060 critique my high school play, Mr. Hammerstein. 00:06:59.259 --> 00:07:01.660 It is. And he got exactly what he asked for. 00:07:01.800 --> 00:07:03.579 Hammerstein read it, sat him down, and said, 00:07:03.699 --> 00:07:06.100 it's the worst thing I have ever read. Ouch. 00:07:06.339 --> 00:07:08.300 That is the moment most people would quit. They'd 00:07:08.300 --> 00:07:10.420 go into accounting. Probably. But Hammerstein 00:07:10.420 --> 00:07:12.850 followed it up. He said, I didn't say it wasn't 00:07:12.850 --> 00:07:15.689 talented. I said it was terrible. And then, this 00:07:15.689 --> 00:07:18.610 is the gift, he spent the entire afternoon, hours 00:07:18.610 --> 00:07:21.550 and hours, going through the script page by page. 00:07:21.629 --> 00:07:23.949 Line by line. He explained why the songs were 00:07:23.949 --> 00:07:26.490 wrong for the characters. Why the structure collapsed 00:07:26.490 --> 00:07:29.370 in the second act. Why the opening number didn't 00:07:29.370 --> 00:07:31.389 set the tone or introduce the world properly. 00:07:32.310 --> 00:07:35.029 Sondheim later said he learned more in that one 00:07:35.029 --> 00:07:37.670 afternoon than most songwriters learn in a lifetime. 00:07:37.970 --> 00:07:40.009 It's so interesting because Hammerstein's style 00:07:40.009 --> 00:07:43.629 is very sincere, very open -hearted, you know, 00:07:43.629 --> 00:07:45.870 climb every mountain, you'll never walk alone. 00:07:46.149 --> 00:07:49.389 Full of hope. Exactly. And Sondheim's style became 00:07:49.389 --> 00:07:53.370 very cynical, urban, and neurotic. But the craft, 00:07:53.490 --> 00:07:55.870 the architecture of the songs, came directly 00:07:55.870 --> 00:07:58.089 from Hammerstein. Exactly. Hammerstein taught 00:07:58.089 --> 00:08:00.649 him how to build a boat. Sondheim just decided 00:08:00.649 --> 00:08:03.750 to sail that boat into much darker, stormier 00:08:03.750 --> 00:08:06.490 waters. But the construction methods, that was 00:08:06.490 --> 00:08:09.430 all Oscar. Let's talk about the curriculum. Because 00:08:09.430 --> 00:08:11.629 Hammerstein didn't just say, go write more. He 00:08:11.629 --> 00:08:14.199 gave him a specific syllabus. It reminds me of 00:08:14.199 --> 00:08:15.899 the way a classical painter gets trained, you 00:08:15.899 --> 00:08:17.639 know, copying the masters before you paint your 00:08:17.639 --> 00:08:19.740 own stuff. It was incredibly structured. It was 00:08:19.740 --> 00:08:22.399 a four -step process. First, he told him to adapt 00:08:22.399 --> 00:08:25.740 a play he admired. Okay, why that? Because if 00:08:25.740 --> 00:08:27.879 the play is already good, your job is to not 00:08:27.879 --> 00:08:30.819 break it. It teaches you how to translate a solid 00:08:30.819 --> 00:08:33.860 existing structure into music, how to find the 00:08:33.860 --> 00:08:36.139 moments that should sing without ruining the 00:08:36.139 --> 00:08:39.220 architecture. Sondheim picked a play called Beggar 00:08:39.220 --> 00:08:41.620 on Horseback. Right. Okay, so that's assignment 00:08:41.620 --> 00:08:45.039 one. What's two? Assignment two. Adapt a play 00:08:45.039 --> 00:08:47.539 you think is flawed. He picked one called Hytor, 00:08:47.620 --> 00:08:50.039 and this goal is much harder. Because now you 00:08:50.039 --> 00:08:51.960 have to fix it. Now you're not just translating, 00:08:52.059 --> 00:08:54.879 you're problem solving. Can you use music to 00:08:54.879 --> 00:08:57.139 fix the narrative problems? Can a song bridge 00:08:57.139 --> 00:08:59.820 a logical gap that the dialogue couldn't? Can 00:08:59.820 --> 00:09:01.779 you make a weak character stronger with the right 00:09:01.779 --> 00:09:03.580 ballad? That's fascinating. It's like musical 00:09:03.580 --> 00:09:05.899 dramaturgy. What was number three? Adapt a source 00:09:05.899 --> 00:09:08.559 that wasn't a play. A novel or a short story. 00:09:08.740 --> 00:09:12.039 And he chose P .L. Travers' Mary Poppins. Wait, 00:09:12.080 --> 00:09:14.700 Mary Poppins? Like Chim Cherry? No, no, this 00:09:14.700 --> 00:09:16.919 was years and years before the Disney movie. 00:09:17.159 --> 00:09:20.259 And totally different in tone. But adapting a 00:09:20.259 --> 00:09:23.019 novel is the hardest task of all. Because there's 00:09:23.019 --> 00:09:26.639 no built -in structure. None. A novel is internal. 00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:29.399 It's narration and thought. It doesn't have scenes 00:09:29.399 --> 00:09:32.100 or dialogue structures ready to go. You have 00:09:32.100 --> 00:09:34.519 to invent the entire dramatic architecture yourself. 00:09:34.720 --> 00:09:36.379 You have to decide what's a scene, what's a song, 00:09:36.440 --> 00:09:39.240 what gets cut. All of it. And finally, assignment 00:09:39.240 --> 00:09:41.840 four was to write a completely original piece, 00:09:42.059 --> 00:09:45.580 which became a show he called Climb High. And 00:09:45.580 --> 00:09:47.539 the amazing thing is, none of these were ever 00:09:47.539 --> 00:09:49.899 professionally produced, right? Not at the time, 00:09:49.940 --> 00:09:52.720 anyway. No, they were for the drawer. They were 00:09:52.720 --> 00:09:55.279 his private conservatory. Can you imagine the 00:09:55.279 --> 00:09:57.779 discipline required to write four full musicals 00:09:57.779 --> 00:10:01.000 just for practice, just for the exercise? Most 00:10:01.000 --> 00:10:03.259 people struggle to finish one. It's staggering. 00:10:03.820 --> 00:10:06.429 But his education didn't stop there. He heads 00:10:06.429 --> 00:10:08.429 off to Williams College, and this is where the 00:10:08.429 --> 00:10:10.929 math part of his brain really gets fed. We have 00:10:10.929 --> 00:10:12.629 to talk about his teacher there, Robert Barrow. 00:10:12.850 --> 00:10:15.649 Barrow is the unsung hero of the Sondheim story. 00:10:15.909 --> 00:10:18.269 He was a music teacher at Williams, and Sondheim 00:10:18.269 --> 00:10:21.389 described him as very dry, not a showman at all. 00:10:21.509 --> 00:10:24.649 But Sondheim loved him because Barrow demystified 00:10:24.649 --> 00:10:27.529 music. How so? What does that mean? Well, there's 00:10:27.529 --> 00:10:30.169 a tendency to treat artistic talent as this mystical 00:10:30.169 --> 00:10:32.970 thing. An angel whispers in your ear and a melody 00:10:32.970 --> 00:10:37.690 comes out. Barrow said, He taught Sondheim that 00:10:37.690 --> 00:10:40.389 music is logic. It's physics. That's a system. 00:10:40.549 --> 00:10:42.870 It's a system with rules. You have leading tones 00:10:42.870 --> 00:10:45.129 notes that desperately want to resolve to other 00:10:45.129 --> 00:10:48.090 notes. You have diatonic scales. You have chord 00:10:48.090 --> 00:10:49.830 progressions that create tension and release. 00:10:50.070 --> 00:10:54.110 For Sondheim, this was an aha moment. He realized 00:10:54.110 --> 00:10:56.490 art is something you can work out. It's not just 00:10:56.490 --> 00:10:59.179 inspiration. It's not magic. And that was empowering. 00:10:59.419 --> 00:11:01.799 He said it made him realize that talent is just 00:11:01.799 --> 00:11:03.960 a developed aptitude. You can work at it. You 00:11:03.960 --> 00:11:05.860 can get better through practice and analysis. 00:11:06.200 --> 00:11:08.139 So Barg is in the logic. Then he graduates and 00:11:08.139 --> 00:11:09.960 goes to study with Milton Babbitt for the advanced 00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:12.700 class. Right. And Babbitt was a serious capital 00:11:12.700 --> 00:11:15.759 C composer, an avant -garde guy, very modern. 00:11:15.940 --> 00:11:18.480 He was into serialism, atonal music stuff that 00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:20.539 can sound like random noise to the untrained 00:11:20.539 --> 00:11:23.850 ear. Not exactly show tunes? Not at all. But 00:11:23.850 --> 00:11:26.610 what he did with Sondheim was fascinating. They 00:11:26.610 --> 00:11:29.429 would spend hours just analyzing music, but not 00:11:29.429 --> 00:11:32.129 just Beethoven and Mozart. They analyzed show 00:11:32.129 --> 00:11:35.429 tunes. This I love. Taking a catchy Rogers and 00:11:35.429 --> 00:11:37.909 Hart tune and treating it with the same seriousness 00:11:37.909 --> 00:11:40.250 as a symphony. They would take a song by Jerome 00:11:40.250 --> 00:11:43.029 Kern, who wrote Old Man River, and put it under 00:11:43.029 --> 00:11:45.730 a microscope. They'd analyze it with the same 00:11:45.730 --> 00:11:48.889 rigor as Mozart's Jupiter Symphony. They looked 00:11:48.889 --> 00:11:51.529 at how Kern could take a tiny musical motif, 00:11:51.730 --> 00:11:54.750 maybe just three or four notes, and spin it out, 00:11:54.830 --> 00:11:57.649 develop it, turn it upside down, and build an 00:11:57.649 --> 00:12:00.190 entire complex melody without it ever getting 00:12:00.190 --> 00:12:05.789 boring. That became Sondheim's mantra. It's the 00:12:05.789 --> 00:12:09.090 key to his entire musical language. If you listen 00:12:09.090 --> 00:12:11.450 to Sweeney Todd or Into the Woods, you realize 00:12:11.450 --> 00:12:13.950 the whole score is built out of these tiny little 00:12:13.950 --> 00:12:16.409 musical cells that just keep rearranging themselves. 00:12:16.750 --> 00:12:18.990 He isn't writing 50 different melodies. He's 00:12:18.990 --> 00:12:21.169 building a skyscraper out of three kinds of bricks. 00:12:21.470 --> 00:12:23.389 And Babbitt apparently refused to teach him a 00:12:23.389 --> 00:12:26.330 tonality. He did. Sondheim wanted to learn the 00:12:26.330 --> 00:12:28.149 really out there stuff, and Babbitt told him, 00:12:28.169 --> 00:12:30.470 you haven't exhausted the resources of tonality 00:12:30.470 --> 00:12:32.830 yet. In other words, master the rules before 00:12:32.830 --> 00:12:35.789 you break them. Precisely. So let's reset the 00:12:35.789 --> 00:12:38.220 board. He's got the Hammerstein training in storytelling. 00:12:38.480 --> 00:12:40.919 He's got the Barrow and Babbitt training in musical 00:12:40.919 --> 00:12:44.220 logic and structure. He is, what, 25 years old? 00:12:44.320 --> 00:12:47.480 Yeah, mid -20s. He is ready to conquer Broadway. 00:12:47.700 --> 00:12:50.340 He wants to be a composer, lyricist. He wants 00:12:50.340 --> 00:12:52.840 to do it all. And nobody will let him. This is 00:12:52.840 --> 00:12:56.120 the lyricist trap. It is. This is the 1950s. 00:12:56.480 --> 00:12:59.019 Producers wanted sure things. They wanted known 00:12:59.019 --> 00:13:01.740 names. They didn't want a 25 -year -old kid writing 00:13:01.740 --> 00:13:04.159 the music. They barely trusted him with lyrics. 00:13:04.460 --> 00:13:06.860 He had a false start with a show called Saturday 00:13:06.860 --> 00:13:09.460 Night. His first professional gig. It was supposed 00:13:09.460 --> 00:13:12.360 to be. Music and lyrics by him. It was set to 00:13:12.360 --> 00:13:15.299 open in 1954, but then the producer, Lemuel Ayers, 00:13:15.610 --> 00:13:18.009 died suddenly. The whole thing just collapsed. 00:13:18.330 --> 00:13:20.049 It didn't actually get produced until, what, 00:13:20.090 --> 00:13:22.610 the year 2000? Yeah, decades later. He called 00:13:22.610 --> 00:13:25.629 it his baby pictures. So he's broke, he's living 00:13:25.629 --> 00:13:27.370 in his father's dining room, he's writing for 00:13:27.370 --> 00:13:29.830 the TV show Topper to make ends meet, and he's 00:13:29.830 --> 00:13:32.389 frustrated. And then he goes to a party. A chance 00:13:32.389 --> 00:13:34.509 meeting with the playwright Arthur Laurence. 00:13:34.649 --> 00:13:37.190 And Laurence says he's working on a modern version 00:13:37.190 --> 00:13:40.429 of Romeo and Juliet with Leonard Bernstein. West 00:13:40.429 --> 00:13:44.500 Side Story. The Monolith. But here's the thing 00:13:44.500 --> 00:13:47.360 that people forget, or maybe never knew, Sondheim 00:13:47.360 --> 00:13:49.779 didn't want to do it. That sounds insane to us 00:13:49.779 --> 00:13:52.559 now, turning down West Side Story. But you have 00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:54.879 to see it from his perspective. He wanted to 00:13:54.879 --> 00:13:57.399 be a composer. He didn't want to just write words 00:13:57.399 --> 00:13:59.779 for Bernstein's music. He felt like it was stepping 00:13:59.779 --> 00:14:02.460 backward, like he was failing. So he goes to 00:14:02.460 --> 00:14:05.580 his mentor, Oscar Hammerstein, for advice. And 00:14:05.580 --> 00:14:08.159 Oscar, being the ultimate pragmatist, said, take 00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:10.100 the job. You'll work with professionals at the 00:14:10.100 --> 00:14:12.220 top of their game. It's a foot in the door. You'll 00:14:12.220 --> 00:14:14.240 learn how the big boys do it. So he takes it. 00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:16.960 And he writes some of the most famous lyrics 00:14:16.960 --> 00:14:20.500 in the history of theater. Maria, tonight, America, 00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:23.960 somewhere. But there's a bitter aftertaste here 00:14:23.960 --> 00:14:25.759 regarding the credit and the money, isn't there? 00:14:25.879 --> 00:14:28.940 A very bitter one. Originally, the billing was 00:14:28.940 --> 00:14:31.419 supposed to be lyrics by Leonard Bernstein and 00:14:31.419 --> 00:14:34.669 Stephen Sondheim. But as they worked. Bernstein 00:14:34.669 --> 00:14:36.929 realized Sondheim was doing the heavy lifting 00:14:36.929 --> 00:14:39.929 on the words. So Bernstein, very generously, 00:14:40.210 --> 00:14:42.669 offered to take his name off the lyric credit 00:14:42.669 --> 00:14:45.090 entirely. Which sounds like a good thing. Soul 00:14:45.090 --> 00:14:46.830 credit. That's what he wanted. It is a good thing 00:14:46.830 --> 00:14:49.309 for your ego. But then came the conversation 00:14:49.309 --> 00:14:52.409 about the royalties. The original split was Bernstein 00:14:52.409 --> 00:14:55.029 getting 3 % of the gross for the music and the 00:14:55.029 --> 00:14:58.210 lyricist's credit getting 1%. Okay. When Bernstein 00:14:58.210 --> 00:15:01.049 offered Sondheim soul credit, he also offered 00:15:01.049 --> 00:15:04.200 to even out the lyricist's pot. He said, I'll 00:15:04.200 --> 00:15:06.740 take 2 % for the music and you take 2 % for the 00:15:06.740 --> 00:15:09.419 lyrics. And Sondheim said yes, obviously. He 00:15:09.419 --> 00:15:12.139 said no. He was so desperate to be seen as the 00:15:12.139 --> 00:15:14.860 sole lyricist to have that validation that he 00:15:14.860 --> 00:15:16.620 refused the extra percentage point. Oh, that 00:15:16.620 --> 00:15:18.759 hurts. Think of the West Side Story royalties 00:15:18.759 --> 00:15:21.740 over 70 years. That is a fortune. We're talking 00:15:21.740 --> 00:15:24.539 millions and millions of dollars. He later said 00:15:24.539 --> 00:15:26.299 he wished someone had stuffed a handkerchief 00:15:26.299 --> 00:15:28.360 in his mouth and just forced him to take the 00:15:28.360 --> 00:15:32.179 money. But it puts him on the map. He's the hot 00:15:32.179 --> 00:15:34.720 new lyricist in town. So now finally he can write 00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:37.440 his own music, right? The trap has sprung. You 00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:41.159 would think. But then comes 1959. The project 00:15:41.159 --> 00:15:43.559 is gypsy. Maybe the greatest American musical 00:15:43.559 --> 00:15:46.340 ever written. That Overture. It's just a killer. 00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:48.960 So Sondheim is asked to write the show. He agrees, 00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:51.980 assuming he's the composer -lyricist. But the 00:15:51.980 --> 00:15:55.159 star is Ethel Merman. The voice of Broadway. 00:15:55.710 --> 00:15:58.429 The biggest diva in the business. A living legend. 00:15:58.629 --> 00:16:00.750 And she was not about to take a risk on an unknown 00:16:00.750 --> 00:16:03.090 kid writing her songs. She had just come off 00:16:03.090 --> 00:16:05.669 a flop, and she needed a guaranteed hit. She 00:16:05.669 --> 00:16:08.230 demanded a veteran composer, Jules Stein. So 00:16:08.230 --> 00:16:10.730 Sondheim is shoved back into the box, just lyrics. 00:16:11.049 --> 00:16:13.549 Again. He was crushed. He almost turned it down. 00:16:13.690 --> 00:16:16.110 And once again, he went to Hammerstein, who told 00:16:16.110 --> 00:16:19.330 him, take the job. Think what you'll learn writing 00:16:19.330 --> 00:16:21.769 for a star of that magnitude. So he does it. 00:16:22.110 --> 00:16:24.309 And the lyrics are incredible. I mean, Rose's 00:16:24.309 --> 00:16:26.210 turn at the end of the show isn't just a song. 00:16:26.409 --> 00:16:29.850 It's a nervous breakdown set to music. It is 00:16:29.850 --> 00:16:33.269 a complete psychological unraveling. But you 00:16:33.269 --> 00:16:35.750 can feel the pressure building in him. He finally 00:16:35.750 --> 00:16:39.049 breaks out in 1962 with A Funny Thing Happened 00:16:39.049 --> 00:16:41.269 on the Way to the Forum. His first Broadway hit. 00:16:41.559 --> 00:16:43.740 with both music and lyrics by him. And it remains 00:16:43.740 --> 00:16:45.779 the longest running show he ever wrote. It's 00:16:45.779 --> 00:16:48.059 a huge old -fashioned hit. But interestingly, 00:16:48.200 --> 00:16:50.940 he doesn't just keep writing comedies, he pivots. 00:16:51.179 --> 00:16:53.919 And this brings us to the 1970s, the collaboration 00:16:53.919 --> 00:16:57.220 with the director Hal Prince. This is where Sondheim 00:16:57.220 --> 00:16:59.840 becomes a Sondheim. This is the golden era, the 00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:03.860 high watermark. From 1970 to 1981, Sondheim and 00:17:03.860 --> 00:17:06.759 Prince basically reinvented the genre with something 00:17:06.759 --> 00:17:09.240 they called the concept musical. Right. So let's 00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:10.960 define that for the listener. We hear that term 00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:13.059 a lot. What is the difference between a traditional 00:17:13.059 --> 00:17:15.460 musical and a concept musical? A traditional 00:17:15.460 --> 00:17:17.619 musical think, The Sound of Music or My Fair 00:17:17.619 --> 00:17:20.400 Lady, is driven by plot. It has a linear story, 00:17:20.640 --> 00:17:23.500 a beginning, middle, and end. Events happen in 00:17:23.500 --> 00:17:26.039 chronological order. Boy meets girl, boy loses 00:17:26.039 --> 00:17:28.599 girl, boy gets girl back. Something like that. 00:17:29.289 --> 00:17:32.450 A concept musical is organized around a theme 00:17:32.450 --> 00:17:35.670 or an idea, not a plot. The timeline might be 00:17:35.670 --> 00:17:38.170 fractured. The characters might be archetypes 00:17:38.170 --> 00:17:40.450 representing different viewpoints. It's more 00:17:40.450 --> 00:17:42.690 like a collage than a storybook. And the first 00:17:42.690 --> 00:17:45.069 big shot in this revolution was Company in 1970. 00:17:45.509 --> 00:17:48.549 Right. Company has no plot. It's a show about 00:17:48.549 --> 00:17:51.630 a guy named Bobby on his 35th birthday, and we 00:17:51.630 --> 00:17:53.730 just see a series of vignettes with his married 00:17:53.730 --> 00:17:56.819 friends. That's it. The whole show is an exploration 00:17:56.819 --> 00:18:00.539 of one theme, the difficulty of emotional connection 00:18:00.539 --> 00:18:03.380 in a modern urban environment. It was sophisticated, 00:18:03.700 --> 00:18:06.559 it was brittle, and it was incredibly adult. 00:18:06.680 --> 00:18:08.859 It wasn't escapism. He was holding up a mirror 00:18:08.859 --> 00:18:10.670 to the audience in New York and saying, Look 00:18:10.670 --> 00:18:12.869 at your own neuroses. And the music matched that. 00:18:12.910 --> 00:18:15.309 It was nervous. It had this pulsing, rhythmic, 00:18:15.410 --> 00:18:18.130 urban energy. If you watch the documentary, original 00:18:18.130 --> 00:18:21.069 cast album, Company, which is a must watch for 00:18:21.069 --> 00:18:22.869 anyone interested in this. Oh, it's incredible. 00:18:23.069 --> 00:18:25.269 You see the intensity. There's that famous scene 00:18:25.269 --> 00:18:27.309 of Elaine Stritch trying to record the ladies 00:18:27.309 --> 00:18:30.450 who lunch at four in the morning. She's exhausted. 00:18:30.609 --> 00:18:32.690 She's screaming. Sondheim is in the booth looking 00:18:32.690 --> 00:18:35.269 hypercritical. It wasn't just let's put on a 00:18:35.269 --> 00:18:38.349 show. It was high stakes art. So after Company, 00:18:38.470 --> 00:18:42.150 they pivot to Follies in 19... Which is, it's 00:18:42.150 --> 00:18:44.710 basically a ghost story. It's a reunion of old 00:18:44.710 --> 00:18:47.009 showgirls in a crumbling theater that's about 00:18:47.009 --> 00:18:49.670 to be torn down. And as they're there, the ghosts 00:18:49.670 --> 00:18:51.829 of their younger selves appear on stage with 00:18:51.829 --> 00:18:54.009 them. And Sondheim did something brilliant with 00:18:54.009 --> 00:18:56.490 the music here. He wrote pastiche songs. Yes. 00:18:56.549 --> 00:18:59.130 For the flashback sequences, he wrote songs that 00:18:59.130 --> 00:19:01.490 sounded like they were written by old 1920s and 00:19:01.490 --> 00:19:04.529 30s composers like Gershwin or Cole Porter. They 00:19:04.529 --> 00:19:07.140 were brilliant imitations. But then the characters' 00:19:07.259 --> 00:19:09.680 reality, their present -day misery, is represented 00:19:09.680 --> 00:19:12.859 by these dissonant, angry, complex, modern songs. 00:19:13.019 --> 00:19:15.319 The whole show is about the clash between your 00:19:15.319 --> 00:19:18.099 golden memories and your gray reality. A masterpiece, 00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:22.880 but a huge money loser. Then, Little Night Music 00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:25.819 in 1973, which feels like a total left turn. 00:19:25.859 --> 00:19:28.039 It's romantic, it's lush, it's beautiful. It 00:19:28.039 --> 00:19:30.160 is, but it's a Sondheim romance, which means 00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:33.289 it's still about regret and missed chances. But 00:19:33.289 --> 00:19:35.369 he set a very specific constraint for himself 00:19:35.369 --> 00:19:38.049 on this one. Right, the waltzes. The entire score 00:19:38.049 --> 00:19:41.900 is written in 34 variations of it. waltz time 00:19:41.900 --> 00:19:44.119 why limit yourself like that why all waltzes 00:19:44.119 --> 00:19:47.140 because 34 time is inherently unstable one two 00:19:47.140 --> 00:19:49.859 three one two three it's always spinning it never 00:19:49.859 --> 00:19:53.460 settles down like a solid 44 march it perfectly 00:19:53.460 --> 00:19:55.579 captures the feeling of the characters in the 00:19:55.579 --> 00:19:57.640 show who are constantly falling in and out of 00:19:57.640 --> 00:20:00.539 love changing partners spinning out of control 00:20:00.539 --> 00:20:02.799 at a weekend party in the country and of course 00:20:02.799 --> 00:20:05.779 it gave him his only true pop hit the one song 00:20:05.779 --> 00:20:08.759 everyone knows Send in the Clowns. Which is, 00:20:08.779 --> 00:20:11.519 ironically, a very simple song musically. But 00:20:11.519 --> 00:20:13.339 it's structurally perfect. Frank Sinatra covered 00:20:13.339 --> 00:20:16.480 it. Judy Collins. It became this massive standard. 00:20:16.900 --> 00:20:18.680 It proved that Sondheim could write a melody 00:20:18.680 --> 00:20:21.700 the whole world could hum. He usually chose not 00:20:21.700 --> 00:20:24.039 to. Because the characters and situations were 00:20:24.039 --> 00:20:26.440 more complicated than that. Exactly. Which brings 00:20:26.440 --> 00:20:30.410 us to... The complicated one. Sweeney Todd. The 00:20:30.410 --> 00:20:34.170 Demon Barber of Fleet Street, 1979. A musical 00:20:34.170 --> 00:20:36.789 about a barber who kills his customers and his 00:20:36.789 --> 00:20:39.170 landlady bakes them into pies. It sounds like 00:20:39.170 --> 00:20:41.650 a bad joke or a B -movie, but they treated it 00:20:41.650 --> 00:20:44.730 like an opera. This is where God is in the Details 00:20:44.730 --> 00:20:47.609 really shines. The score is almost entirely music. 00:20:47.809 --> 00:20:50.910 It's terrifying and hilarious at the same time. 00:20:51.339 --> 00:20:53.380 The song A Little Priest at the end of Act One 00:20:53.380 --> 00:20:55.839 is my favorite example of this. It's a jaunty 00:20:55.839 --> 00:20:58.200 waltz, and they are literally discussing which 00:20:58.200 --> 00:21:00.000 professions would make the best tasting pies. 00:21:00.220 --> 00:21:02.680 It's a pun -filled masterpiece of black comedy. 00:21:02.839 --> 00:21:04.940 They are deciding which professionals taste best. 00:21:05.140 --> 00:21:08.099 The shepherd's pie peppered with actual shepherds, 00:21:08.099 --> 00:21:10.920 or the politician is so oily it needs to be served 00:21:10.920 --> 00:21:13.759 with lettuce. It's a masterclass in wordplay, 00:21:13.859 --> 00:21:15.920 but underneath all the jokes, there is this boiling 00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:19.059 rage against the class system. It's grand guignol, 00:21:19.119 --> 00:21:21.019 high horror, and high comedy blended together. 00:21:21.299 --> 00:21:23.420 But this incredible winning streak had to end. 00:21:23.559 --> 00:21:27.000 And it ended with a crash in 1981. Marilee, we 00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:29.960 roll along. Ah, yes. This is the great heartbreak 00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:32.359 of his career. The concept was brilliant. It's 00:21:32.359 --> 00:21:34.640 a story told backwards. So you start at the end 00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:36.880 and end at the beginning. Right. You start with 00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:39.319 the characters as cynical middle -aged sellouts. 00:21:39.319 --> 00:21:41.740 And the show moves back in time until the final 00:21:41.740 --> 00:21:44.960 scene where they are young, idealistic dreamers 00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:47.940 on a rooftop ready to change the world. Why didn't 00:21:47.940 --> 00:21:49.859 it work? The audience couldn't follow it. They 00:21:49.859 --> 00:21:51.779 saw the main character, Franklin Shepard, as 00:21:51.779 --> 00:21:54.079 a complete jerk in the first scene. So they didn't 00:21:54.079 --> 00:21:55.720 care about him for the rest of the show, even 00:21:55.720 --> 00:21:57.779 as he got younger and more innocent. Also, the 00:21:57.779 --> 00:22:01.069 casting was. an issue a huge issue they cast 00:22:01.069 --> 00:22:03.690 actual teenagers to play the parts who then had 00:22:03.690 --> 00:22:06.769 to age down it just didn't land the show opened 00:22:06.769 --> 00:22:09.569 to brutal reviews and closed in less than two 00:22:09.569 --> 00:22:13.089 weeks Sondheim was devastated. He felt betrayed 00:22:13.089 --> 00:22:15.289 by the critics and the community. He actually 00:22:15.289 --> 00:22:17.490 considered quitting, didn't he? The notes mentioned 00:22:17.490 --> 00:22:19.609 he wanted to write video games. He was serious. 00:22:19.789 --> 00:22:22.710 He was a huge gamer and puzzle fan. He thought 00:22:22.710 --> 00:22:25.210 about designing video games or writing murder 00:22:25.210 --> 00:22:27.549 mysteries. He wanted to leave the theater behind 00:22:27.549 --> 00:22:29.470 because he felt the theater had rejected him. 00:22:29.750 --> 00:22:32.250 And it also ended his regular collaboration with 00:22:32.250 --> 00:22:35.410 Hal Prince. But then, a few years later, he sees 00:22:35.410 --> 00:22:38.170 a play off -Broadway by a guy named James Lapine. 00:22:38.759 --> 00:22:41.380 And this starts the second great era of his career, 00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:43.559 the Lapine era. And this is where things get 00:22:43.559 --> 00:22:47.099 really artsy. Hal Prince was a showman. He loved 00:22:47.099 --> 00:22:50.200 glitz and big theatrical staging. Lapine was 00:22:50.200 --> 00:22:52.660 a visual artist, a photographer. He was quiet, 00:22:52.759 --> 00:22:54.779 more intellectual. He brought a totally different 00:22:54.779 --> 00:22:56.700 energy to the table. And their first collaboration 00:22:56.700 --> 00:22:59.059 is, in my opinion, his absolute masterpiece, 00:22:59.519 --> 00:23:03.539 Sunday in the Park with George. 1984. A musical 00:23:03.539 --> 00:23:05.660 about the pointillist painter Georges Seurat 00:23:05.660 --> 00:23:08.759 creating his famous masterpiece, A Sunday Afternoon 00:23:08.759 --> 00:23:11.299 on the Island of Legrand Shot. And here is where 00:23:11.299 --> 00:23:13.319 we see that principle we mentioned earlier, content 00:23:13.319 --> 00:23:16.420 dictates form. Seurat painted with pointillism, 00:23:16.500 --> 00:23:19.680 tiny dots of color that blend in your eye. How 00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:22.619 did Sondheim translate that into music? He wrote 00:23:22.619 --> 00:23:24.579 pointillist music. He used staccato notes, like 00:23:24.579 --> 00:23:27.059 little dots of sound. Ping, ping, ping. The piano 00:23:27.059 --> 00:23:29.460 mimics the brush strokes. He used these repetitive 00:23:29.460 --> 00:23:32.200 hypnotic motifs that eventually coalesce and 00:23:32.200 --> 00:23:34.880 build into a big, sweeping, gorgeous melody. 00:23:35.180 --> 00:23:37.480 It's incredibly difficult to sing, but the effect 00:23:37.480 --> 00:23:39.380 is that you are literally hearing the painting 00:23:39.380 --> 00:23:42.000 being created. It won the Pulitzer Prize for 00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:44.440 drama, and he gave us the song Finishing the 00:23:44.440 --> 00:23:47.539 Hat, which is basically the anthem for anyone 00:23:47.539 --> 00:23:49.940 who has ever... tried to make something. Oh, 00:23:49.960 --> 00:23:52.200 absolutely. It perfectly captures the isolation 00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:54.900 and the obsession of the artist. The idea that 00:23:54.900 --> 00:23:57.000 while everyone else is out living life, going 00:23:57.000 --> 00:23:59.759 to picnics and parties, you are in the studio 00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:02.880 obsessing over a tiny detail. Look, I made a 00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:05.759 hat where there never was a hat. It's Sondheim's 00:24:05.759 --> 00:24:08.180 autobiography in a song. Then they did Into the 00:24:08.180 --> 00:24:11.160 Woods in 1987, which takes all these classic 00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:14.240 fairy tales and asks what happens after Happily 00:24:14.240 --> 00:24:16.440 Ever After. This is probably his most performed 00:24:16.440 --> 00:24:19.200 show today. It's accessible, but it's also incredibly 00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:22.019 deep and dark. And there's a fun debate about 00:24:22.019 --> 00:24:23.940 this show regarding The Witch's opening number. 00:24:24.099 --> 00:24:27.099 It's very fast, very rhythmic spoken word. A 00:24:27.099 --> 00:24:28.960 lot of people claim it's the first rap song on 00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:30.940 Broadway. It certainly sounds like it. Greens, 00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:33.779 greens, nothing but greens. Yeah. Beans, beans, 00:24:33.960 --> 00:24:37.180 and nothing but beans. It flows like rap, for 00:24:37.180 --> 00:24:40.279 sure. But Sondheim, being the musical historian 00:24:40.279 --> 00:24:43.160 he was, actually pushed back on that claim. He 00:24:43.160 --> 00:24:45.539 credited The Music Man, specifically the opening 00:24:45.539 --> 00:24:47.859 number Rock Island with the salesman on the train, 00:24:48.059 --> 00:24:51.380 as the first real proto -rap. But The Witch certainly 00:24:51.380 --> 00:24:54.359 brought that rhythmic intensity to a modern audience. 00:24:54.700 --> 00:24:57.420 Their final major collaboration was Passion in 00:24:57.420 --> 00:25:01.220 1994, which is... It's a tough watch. It is a 00:25:01.220 --> 00:25:03.700 very tough watch. It's about a sick, unattractive 00:25:03.700 --> 00:25:07.220 woman who relentlessly, obsessively stalks a 00:25:07.220 --> 00:25:09.380 handsome soldier until he eventually loves her 00:25:09.380 --> 00:25:11.960 back. It's uncomfortable. It challenges your 00:25:11.960 --> 00:25:14.799 entire idea of what love is. Is it romantic? 00:25:15.380 --> 00:25:18.019 Or is it a sickness? It won the Tony for Best 00:25:18.019 --> 00:25:19.819 Musical, but it was the shortest running show 00:25:19.819 --> 00:25:22.079 to ever do so. Which I think proves that Sondheim 00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:23.759 was never going to just give the audience what 00:25:23.759 --> 00:25:25.460 they wanted. He gave them what he was interested 00:25:25.460 --> 00:25:27.980 in exploring, no matter how difficult. Let's 00:25:27.980 --> 00:25:30.549 pivot to his late career. He didn't slow down 00:25:30.549 --> 00:25:32.710 on the risk -taking. We have to talk about assassins. 00:25:32.890 --> 00:25:36.930 1990, off -Broadway. A musical review where the 00:25:36.930 --> 00:25:39.210 main characters are everyone who tried to kill, 00:25:39.309 --> 00:25:41.410 successfully or not, the President of the United 00:25:41.410 --> 00:25:44.529 States. John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, 00:25:44.710 --> 00:25:47.430 Squeaky Fermé, John Hinckley. Who thinks, hey, 00:25:47.569 --> 00:25:50.589 that sings? Sondheim did. And he considered it 00:25:50.589 --> 00:25:53.470 one of his most perfect works. He argued that 00:25:53.470 --> 00:25:55.430 it's about the dark side of the American dream. 00:25:55.809 --> 00:25:58.130 The Constitution says we have the right to the 00:25:58.130 --> 00:26:01.130 pursuit of happiness. These assassins are all 00:26:01.130 --> 00:26:03.009 people who felt cheated out of their happiness 00:26:03.009 --> 00:26:05.390 and decided to take it out on the ultimate symbol 00:26:05.390 --> 00:26:08.230 of the country. It's terrifyingly relevant. And 00:26:08.230 --> 00:26:10.670 he kept working right up to the end. He had a 00:26:10.670 --> 00:26:12.509 show that went through a million titles, Wise 00:26:12.509 --> 00:26:15.789 Guys Bounce, finally Roadshow. And his final 00:26:15.789 --> 00:26:18.650 show, here we are. based on Luis Buñuel films, 00:26:18.809 --> 00:26:21.549 premiered posthumously in 2023. He died with 00:26:21.549 --> 00:26:23.670 his boots on, essentially. Still writing, still 00:26:23.670 --> 00:26:25.529 creating. We've talked a lot about the work, 00:26:25.549 --> 00:26:27.190 but I want to go back to the mind we mentioned 00:26:27.190 --> 00:26:29.789 in the intro, the puzzle master. This wasn't 00:26:29.789 --> 00:26:32.410 just a metaphor for him. He literally introduced 00:26:32.410 --> 00:26:36.130 cryptic crosswords to America. He did. In the 00:26:36.130 --> 00:26:38.950 late 60s, he created these incredibly complex 00:26:38.950 --> 00:26:42.150 cryptic crosswords for New York Magazine. He 00:26:42.150 --> 00:26:44.490 was obsessed with games. His house in Turtle 00:26:44.490 --> 00:26:47.089 Bay was filled with antique board games, coin 00:26:47.089 --> 00:26:49.910 -operated machines, puzzles. And skeletons, apparently. 00:26:50.130 --> 00:26:52.230 It sounds like a haunted funhouse. Yeah. But 00:26:52.230 --> 00:26:55.150 it was a sanctuary for his mind. He even co -wrote 00:26:55.150 --> 00:26:57.450 a movie called The Last of Sheila with Anthony 00:26:57.450 --> 00:27:00.609 Perkins. You know, Norman Bates from Seiko. I've 00:27:00.609 --> 00:27:02.890 seen that movie. It is so intricate. It's a hoodoonit 00:27:02.890 --> 00:27:04.960 where the clues are all based... on wordplay 00:27:04.960 --> 00:27:08.099 and games. Exactly. And the main character in 00:27:08.099 --> 00:27:10.859 the famous stage play Sleuth, the obsessively 00:27:10.859 --> 00:27:13.500 game -playing mystery writer, is partially based 00:27:13.500 --> 00:27:16.279 on Sondheim's real -life reputation. He was always 00:27:16.279 --> 00:27:18.700 looking for the solution, for the perfect construction. 00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:21.680 I wonder if that's why his lyrics feel so inevitable. 00:27:22.059 --> 00:27:24.220 He treated a rhyme scheme like a crossword puzzle. 00:27:24.359 --> 00:27:27.460 It had to fit perfectly. No cheating. Absolutely. 00:27:27.559 --> 00:27:31.200 He had a rule. True rhyme only. No near rhymes 00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:34.059 or slant rhymes like home and alone. It had to 00:27:34.059 --> 00:27:36.559 click into place like a lock. He believed that 00:27:36.559 --> 00:27:38.819 perfect rhymes make the audience subconsciously 00:27:38.819 --> 00:27:40.640 trust the intelligence of the character who's 00:27:40.640 --> 00:27:43.160 singing. Let's talk about his legacy as a teacher. 00:27:43.819 --> 00:27:46.759 Because Oscar Hammerstein taught him and he took 00:27:46.759 --> 00:27:49.660 that idea of paying it forward very, very seriously. 00:27:50.109 --> 00:27:52.690 He viewed it as a moral obligation. He said it 00:27:52.690 --> 00:27:55.549 was about passing on what Oscar passed on to 00:27:55.549 --> 00:27:59.170 me. And the list of people he mentored is incredible. 00:27:59.490 --> 00:28:02.369 Most famously, Jonathan Larson, who wrote Rent. 00:28:02.589 --> 00:28:05.410 There's that scene in the movie Tick, Tick, Boom, 00:28:05.690 --> 00:28:09.109 where Andrew Garfield, as Larson, gets a voicemail 00:28:09.109 --> 00:28:12.210 from Sondheim. A lovely meta detail about that. 00:28:12.410 --> 00:28:14.650 Sondheim actually rewrote that voicemail for 00:28:14.650 --> 00:28:17.029 the movie and then voiced it himself. He told 00:28:17.029 --> 00:28:19.130 the filmmakers, I wouldn't say it like that. 00:28:19.250 --> 00:28:21.430 He wanted it to be accurate to how he would actually 00:28:21.430 --> 00:28:23.849 encourage a young artist. He was very gentle 00:28:23.849 --> 00:28:26.009 and supportive with Larson. He was also deeply 00:28:26.009 --> 00:28:29.049 involved with Lin -Manuel Miranda. He was. When 00:28:29.049 --> 00:28:31.190 Miranda was writing Hamilton, he showed early 00:28:31.190 --> 00:28:33.789 drafts to Sondheim. Sondheim was actually skeptical 00:28:33.789 --> 00:28:35.869 at first. He worried that a whole evening of 00:28:35.869 --> 00:28:38.450 rap music might get monotonous. But once he heard 00:28:38.450 --> 00:28:40.789 the complexity of the rhymes, he was completely 00:28:40.789 --> 00:28:43.670 won over. He respected the craft. He didn't care 00:28:43.670 --> 00:28:45.569 about the genre. He cared about the execution. 00:28:46.170 --> 00:28:48.369 I also love this story about Adam Gettle, who's 00:28:48.369 --> 00:28:51.109 Richard Rodgers' grandson. It shows Sondheim's 00:28:51.109 --> 00:28:54.289 tough love side. Yes, yes. Adam Gettle, a brilliant 00:28:54.289 --> 00:28:56.990 composer in his own right, showed Sondheim some 00:28:56.990 --> 00:28:59.529 of his early work, probably expecting a pat on 00:28:59.529 --> 00:29:01.650 the back, and Sondheim just gave him brutal... 00:29:02.299 --> 00:29:05.740 detailed page -by -page notes, Gettle was crushed. 00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:09.000 And Sondheim later apologized to him and said, 00:29:09.079 --> 00:29:11.160 I was trying to be constructive, not encouraging. 00:29:11.380 --> 00:29:13.980 That is a crucial distinction. It is. He treated 00:29:13.980 --> 00:29:16.980 these young writers as peers, not children. He 00:29:16.980 --> 00:29:18.759 respected them enough to tell them the truth, 00:29:18.920 --> 00:29:21.559 just like Hammerstein did for him. Before we 00:29:21.559 --> 00:29:23.079 wrap up, I wanted to distill his philosophy. 00:29:23.559 --> 00:29:26.099 He had four core principles he wrote about in 00:29:26.099 --> 00:29:28.539 his lyric collection, Finishing the Hat. What 00:29:28.539 --> 00:29:30.609 were they? They are the four commandments of 00:29:30.609 --> 00:29:33.450 Sondheim. Number one, content dictates form. 00:29:33.690 --> 00:29:35.730 The way something is said should be inseparable 00:29:35.730 --> 00:29:38.650 from what is being said. The music must sound 00:29:38.650 --> 00:29:41.049 like the subject. Pointillism for a pointillist 00:29:41.049 --> 00:29:44.069 painting. Exactly. Number two, less is more. 00:29:44.369 --> 00:29:46.930 Don't overwrite, don't over -explain. Number 00:29:46.930 --> 00:29:50.630 three, God is in the details. That one feels 00:29:50.630 --> 00:29:52.849 like the one to tattoo on your arm. It's the 00:29:52.849 --> 00:29:55.380 truest one for him. Whether it's the specific 00:29:55.380 --> 00:29:58.420 interval in a melody or the specific button on 00:29:58.420 --> 00:30:00.880 a character's costume, that's where the art lives. 00:30:01.660 --> 00:30:05.200 And number four, clarity. Above all, be clear. 00:30:05.599 --> 00:30:08.900 And finally, the man himself. We described him 00:30:08.900 --> 00:30:10.980 as isolated as a child. Did that ever really 00:30:10.980 --> 00:30:13.920 go away? He often described himself as an outsider, 00:30:14.220 --> 00:30:17.650 someone people wanted to kiss and kill. He didn't 00:30:17.650 --> 00:30:19.730 come out as gay publicly until he was 40. He 00:30:19.730 --> 00:30:21.750 didn't live with a partner until he was 61 when 00:30:21.750 --> 00:30:24.589 he met Peter Jones. He married his husband, Jeffrey 00:30:24.589 --> 00:30:28.009 Romley, in 2017. But there was always a sense 00:30:28.009 --> 00:30:30.470 of solitude about him. And he hated being pigeonholed. 00:30:30.509 --> 00:30:32.349 He rejected the idea that his songs were gay 00:30:32.349 --> 00:30:35.029 anthems, right? He did. People often cite somewhere 00:30:35.029 --> 00:30:37.130 from West Side Story, there's a place for us 00:30:37.130 --> 00:30:39.450 as a gay anthem. And Sondheim said, look, if 00:30:39.450 --> 00:30:41.509 that's a gay song, then all songs about getting 00:30:41.509 --> 00:30:43.529 away from the realities of life are gay songs. 00:30:43.890 --> 00:30:46.589 He wanted his work to be universal. Not specific 00:30:46.589 --> 00:30:49.009 to one identity. He didn't want to be the gay 00:30:49.009 --> 00:30:51.130 composer. He just wanted to be a great composer. 00:30:51.470 --> 00:30:53.569 So what is the takeaway for us? Why does Sondheim 00:30:53.569 --> 00:30:55.470 matter to someone who maybe doesn't even like 00:30:55.470 --> 00:30:58.170 musicals? Because he fundamentally changed the 00:30:58.170 --> 00:31:00.950 way we tell stories with music. He proved that 00:31:00.950 --> 00:31:03.309 you can be entertaining and intellectual at the 00:31:03.309 --> 00:31:05.049 same time. You don't have to dumb things down 00:31:05.049 --> 00:31:07.529 to reach an audience. You can ask them to work 00:31:07.529 --> 00:31:09.650 a little bit, to lean in. And that brings me 00:31:09.650 --> 00:31:12.789 to my final thought. Sondheim once said he preferred 00:31:12.789 --> 00:31:16.509 theater. to concert music because he wanted communication 00:31:16.509 --> 00:31:18.710 with audiences. He wanted to make them feel something. 00:31:19.289 --> 00:31:22.349 But he was also this man of math, of puzzles, 00:31:22.450 --> 00:31:24.589 of intellectual detachment. It's the central 00:31:24.589 --> 00:31:27.289 paradox of his life and work, the cold intellect 00:31:27.289 --> 00:31:30.529 and the warm beating heart. Right. So here's 00:31:30.529 --> 00:31:32.970 the question for you to think about. Does that 00:31:32.970 --> 00:31:35.690 God is in the details approach, that relentless 00:31:35.690 --> 00:31:38.369 complexity and precision, does that create a 00:31:38.369 --> 00:31:41.430 barrier between the art and the audience? Or 00:31:41.430 --> 00:31:44.109 is that specific, intricate complexity exactly 00:31:44.109 --> 00:31:46.430 what makes the connection so human and so enduring? 00:31:47.130 --> 00:31:49.930 Maybe by being so hyper -specific, so detailed, 00:31:49.970 --> 00:31:52.210 he actually became universal. Because life is 00:31:52.210 --> 00:31:54.609 detailed. Life is a puzzle. And we see ourselves 00:31:54.609 --> 00:31:57.099 in the attempt to solve it. I think that's it. 00:31:57.240 --> 00:31:59.980 We recognize the messiness and the intricacy 00:31:59.980 --> 00:32:03.299 of our own lives in the complex structures he 00:32:03.299 --> 00:32:05.720 built on stage. And the fact that we are still 00:32:05.720 --> 00:32:08.619 listening, still analyzing and still crying at 00:32:08.619 --> 00:32:11.160 his shows 50 years later, I think that proves 00:32:11.160 --> 00:32:13.119 the connection is very, very real. I think so, 00:32:13.140 --> 00:32:16.220 too. That's it for this deep dive into Stephen 00:32:16.220 --> 00:32:17.880 Sondheim. Thanks for listening. See you next 00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:18.039 time.