WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.299 Welcome back to The Deep Dive, where we dig into 00:00:02.299 --> 00:00:04.259 the shared source material to pull out the stories 00:00:04.259 --> 00:00:06.759 you need to hear. And today, we've got a really 00:00:06.759 --> 00:00:08.919 compelling one. We're talking about a franchise 00:00:08.919 --> 00:00:12.400 that really had to fight for its identity. A 00:00:12.400 --> 00:00:16.679 team built on, well, tenacity and a deep, deep 00:00:16.679 --> 00:00:19.679 connection to its city. the Memphis Grizzlies. 00:00:19.820 --> 00:00:22.120 It's an incredible story, really, full of these 00:00:22.120 --> 00:00:25.679 massive highs and some pretty crushing lows. 00:00:26.000 --> 00:00:28.260 Right. And you have to remember, this is a team 00:00:28.260 --> 00:00:30.300 that started out as almost an afterthought up 00:00:30.300 --> 00:00:33.679 in Canada. And now they're the only major pro 00:00:33.679 --> 00:00:36.460 sports team in Memphis, one of only four in the 00:00:36.460 --> 00:00:39.079 whole state of Tennessee. That's a huge anchor 00:00:39.079 --> 00:00:41.500 for a city. So our mission today is pretty straightforward. 00:00:41.719 --> 00:00:43.579 We're going to track the entire evolution of 00:00:43.579 --> 00:00:45.560 this franchise. Which means we have to start 00:00:45.560 --> 00:00:48.840 with those very volatile early years in Vancouver. 00:00:49.159 --> 00:00:51.899 Exactly. Then we'll dig into the era that really 00:00:51.899 --> 00:00:54.140 gave them their soul, the grit and grind years. 00:00:54.340 --> 00:00:56.479 And then bring it all the way to today with the 00:00:56.479 --> 00:00:59.420 high octane and you could say sometimes tumultuous 00:00:59.420 --> 00:01:02.280 John Morant era. Our sources are just packed 00:01:02.280 --> 00:01:04.299 with the history, the big trades, the cultural 00:01:04.299 --> 00:01:06.780 moments. We're going to navigate some infamous 00:01:06.780 --> 00:01:09.920 trades, some major ownership changes and the 00:01:09.920 --> 00:01:11.739 philosophies that really dictated their success. 00:01:12.250 --> 00:01:13.930 Let's get into it. OK, so let's start at the 00:01:13.930 --> 00:01:17.430 beginning. The mid -90s. The NBA is looking to 00:01:17.430 --> 00:01:20.189 expand. Right. They're looking north. And so 00:01:20.189 --> 00:01:22.909 in 1995, the Vancouver Grizzlies are born in 00:01:22.909 --> 00:01:25.090 the very same season as the Toronto Raptors. 00:01:25.569 --> 00:01:28.769 This was the league's big return to Canada. And 00:01:28.769 --> 00:01:31.049 there was a lot of excitement, sure. But the 00:01:31.049 --> 00:01:35.549 reality on the ground was tough from day one. 00:01:35.629 --> 00:01:37.629 It was. Just look at where they were placed. 00:01:38.400 --> 00:01:40.620 The Midwest Division of the Western Conference. 00:01:41.400 --> 00:01:43.200 Geographically, that just makes no sense. None 00:01:43.200 --> 00:01:45.079 at all. Think about the travel. You're a team 00:01:45.079 --> 00:01:47.879 in Vancouver and your division rivals are in, 00:01:47.879 --> 00:01:51.579 what, Utah, Denver, Dallas, Houston. San Antonio. 00:01:51.719 --> 00:01:54.000 San Antonio. The travel was just crippling. It 00:01:54.000 --> 00:01:56.219 made it so hard to recruit players, so hard to 00:01:56.219 --> 00:01:59.060 keep them. It was a huge factor in why they struggled 00:01:59.060 --> 00:02:01.180 so much out of the gate. And the name itself, 00:02:01.560 --> 00:02:03.680 Grizzlies, that wasn't even the first choice, 00:02:03.719 --> 00:02:05.459 was it? No, and this is a great little piece 00:02:05.459 --> 00:02:07.840 of trivia. The original idea was the Vancouver 00:02:07.840 --> 00:02:11.199 Mounties. The Mounties? Yeah, but the Royal Canadian 00:02:11.199 --> 00:02:13.819 Mounted Police, the RCMP, they actually stepped 00:02:13.819 --> 00:02:16.319 in and formally objected. Wow. So the franchise 00:02:16.319 --> 00:02:19.300 had to pivot and they landed on Grizzlies, which 00:02:19.300 --> 00:02:21.780 was a nod to the grizzly bear, you know, the 00:02:21.780 --> 00:02:24.479 big local animal in British Columbia. A move 00:02:24.479 --> 00:02:27.280 that probably saved us from some very awkward 00:02:27.280 --> 00:02:30.159 branding down the line. Probably. So for six 00:02:30.159 --> 00:02:32.960 seasons, they called General Motors Place home. 00:02:33.139 --> 00:02:36.360 But to put it mildly, those six seasons were 00:02:36.360 --> 00:02:39.340 defined by losing. A lot of losing. A historic 00:02:39.340 --> 00:02:42.259 amount. They never won more than 19 games in 00:02:42.259 --> 00:02:43.900 a single season while they were in Vancouver. 00:02:44.120 --> 00:02:46.199 19. And it was that combination of things, the 00:02:46.199 --> 00:02:50.930 losing, the brutal travel. a really weak Canadian 00:02:50.930 --> 00:02:53.110 dollar compared to the U .S. dollar, the economics 00:02:53.110 --> 00:02:55.150 just didn't work. So the pressure just kept mounting 00:02:55.150 --> 00:02:57.909 until, well, it broke. It did. The official process 00:02:57.909 --> 00:03:01.490 started on March 26, 2001. The team formally 00:03:01.490 --> 00:03:03.469 applied to relocate. And the NBA didn't fight 00:03:03.469 --> 00:03:05.990 it. No, they saw the writing on the wall. On 00:03:05.990 --> 00:03:08.469 July 3, 2001, the move to Memphis, Tennessee 00:03:08.469 --> 00:03:11.270 was approved. The Raptors were suddenly the only 00:03:11.270 --> 00:03:14.110 NBA team left in Canada. So they get to Memphis 00:03:14.110 --> 00:03:17.990 and you'd think, OK, new city, new name. A grizzly 00:03:17.990 --> 00:03:20.949 bear in the Mississippi Delta doesn't quite fit. 00:03:21.090 --> 00:03:23.270 That's what the ownership thought, too. They 00:03:23.270 --> 00:03:26.509 were exploring a name change. But the community 00:03:26.509 --> 00:03:29.189 pushed back. They pushed back hard. The locals 00:03:29.189 --> 00:03:31.729 really wanted to keep the name Grizzlies. Why, 00:03:31.830 --> 00:03:34.550 though? What was the connection? It's this forgotten 00:03:34.550 --> 00:03:38.370 piece of local sports history. Memphis actually 00:03:38.370 --> 00:03:41.879 had a pro football team. in the old world football 00:03:41.879 --> 00:03:45.819 league back in 74 and 75 they were called the 00:03:45.819 --> 00:03:49.020 memphis grizzlies no way yeah so for the city 00:03:49.020 --> 00:03:52.219 the name already had roots it felt like theirs 00:03:52.219 --> 00:03:54.879 which made the whole relocation feel a little 00:03:54.879 --> 00:03:57.960 less you know foreign and that move created one 00:03:57.960 --> 00:04:00.159 of the great geographical oddities in all of 00:04:00.159 --> 00:04:02.900 sports it really did moving from the pacific 00:04:02.900 --> 00:04:05.400 northwest all the way to memphis deep in the 00:04:05.400 --> 00:04:08.199 south suddenly made memphis the easternmost city 00:04:08.199 --> 00:04:10.629 in the western conference which It still is today. 00:04:10.729 --> 00:04:13.189 It's just a strange quirk of history. Completely. 00:04:13.229 --> 00:04:15.810 And before they built the FedEx Forum, they started 00:04:15.810 --> 00:04:18.850 out in a pretty iconic Memphis building. The 00:04:18.850 --> 00:04:21.439 Pyramid. The Pyramid Arena. A giant. You know, 00:04:21.439 --> 00:04:23.879 pyramid. They played their first three seasons 00:04:23.879 --> 00:04:26.920 there from 2001 to 2004 before moving into their 00:04:26.920 --> 00:04:29.019 current home. And it's important to note, Memphis 00:04:29.019 --> 00:04:31.540 wasn't a total basketball desert before the NBA 00:04:31.540 --> 00:04:33.819 arrived. Not at all. They had the Memphis Sounds 00:04:33.819 --> 00:04:37.019 and the ABA from 1970 to 75. So the appetite 00:04:37.019 --> 00:04:39.379 was there. The city was just waiting for the 00:04:39.379 --> 00:04:41.959 right team. OK, so the franchise finds its permanent 00:04:41.959 --> 00:04:45.300 home. But now the real work begins. They have 00:04:45.300 --> 00:04:48.209 to actually build a winning team. And that starts 00:04:48.209 --> 00:04:51.389 with a truly game -changing draft. The 2001 draft 00:04:51.389 --> 00:04:53.490 is probably the single most important moment 00:04:53.490 --> 00:04:56.009 in the team's early history. A total clean slate. 00:04:56.269 --> 00:04:58.709 And they took full advantage. They made a huge 00:04:58.709 --> 00:05:00.790 trade with the Atlanta Hawks to get the rights 00:05:00.790 --> 00:05:03.170 to the third overall pick. Paul Gasol. Paul Gasol. 00:05:03.370 --> 00:05:06.290 And then with their own pick, number six, they 00:05:06.290 --> 00:05:08.810 took Shane Battier. A really smart, defensive 00:05:08.810 --> 00:05:11.449 -minded player. Exactly. And they weren't done. 00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:14.439 The GM, Billy Knight, also traded their point 00:05:14.439 --> 00:05:16.899 guard, Mike Bibby, to the Kings for Jason Williams. 00:05:17.180 --> 00:05:19.600 White chocolate. The one and only. He brought 00:05:19.600 --> 00:05:21.860 an immediate jolt of excitement to that new market. 00:05:22.139 --> 00:05:24.259 So that's a massive talent injection right away. 00:05:24.480 --> 00:05:27.319 And Powell, he delivered on the hype almost immediately. 00:05:27.639 --> 00:05:29.720 He was spectacular. He wins the NBA Rookie of 00:05:29.720 --> 00:05:31.560 the Year award that first season. He was the 00:05:31.560 --> 00:05:35.420 franchise's first legitimate bankable star. Just 00:05:35.420 --> 00:05:37.720 a level of skill they had never had before. And 00:05:37.720 --> 00:05:39.600 yet, even after landing the Rookie of the Year, 00:05:40.180 --> 00:05:42.800 GM Billy Knight gets fired. While the teams still 00:05:42.800 --> 00:05:46.199 finished 23 and 59, the ownership felt they needed 00:05:46.199 --> 00:05:49.600 a complete cultural reset. The losing mentality 00:05:49.600 --> 00:05:52.819 from Vancouver was still lingering. So they go 00:05:52.819 --> 00:05:55.040 out and make a huge splash. A legendary splash. 00:05:55.360 --> 00:05:59.259 In 2002, they hire Hall of Famer Jerry West as 00:05:59.259 --> 00:06:01.480 their new general manager. A logo himself. And 00:06:01.480 --> 00:06:03.480 he didn't just tweak the roster, he changed the 00:06:03.480 --> 00:06:05.899 entire culture. He wins executive of the year 00:06:05.899 --> 00:06:08.279 in 2004 because he just overhauled everything. 00:06:08.639 --> 00:06:11.339 He fired the coach, brought in the veteran Hubie 00:06:11.339 --> 00:06:13.939 Brown, and he brought in key role players like 00:06:13.939 --> 00:06:16.379 Mike Miller and James Posey to add toughness 00:06:16.379 --> 00:06:18.459 and shooting around pow. So West is building 00:06:18.459 --> 00:06:22.339 the first truly successful Grizzlies team. But 00:06:22.339 --> 00:06:24.959 we have to talk about this. The skeleton in the 00:06:24.959 --> 00:06:27.180 closet from the Vancouver days. Oh, the Otis 00:06:27.180 --> 00:06:29.420 Thorpe trade. A mistake that might have cost 00:06:29.420 --> 00:06:31.899 them a shot at a title. It's a cautionary tale 00:06:31.899 --> 00:06:35.240 for every front office in sports. Don't trade 00:06:35.240 --> 00:06:38.819 unprotected future first round picks. So what 00:06:38.819 --> 00:06:42.519 happened? Back in 1997, the Vancouver front office 00:06:42.519 --> 00:06:45.879 traded their 2003 first round pick, completely 00:06:45.879 --> 00:06:49.060 unprotected, to the Detroit Pistons for a veteran 00:06:49.060 --> 00:06:52.079 forward named Otis Thorpe. And of course, the 00:06:52.079 --> 00:06:53.920 Grizzlies were terrible in the years leading 00:06:53.920 --> 00:06:56.899 up to 2003. Just terrible. Which meant that pick 00:06:56.899 --> 00:06:58.899 became more and more valuable. It ended up being 00:06:58.899 --> 00:07:01.259 the number two overall pick in the 2003 draft. 00:07:01.600 --> 00:07:03.800 One of the most loaded drafts in history. An 00:07:03.800 --> 00:07:06.100 all -time draft class. So the Grizzlies are just 00:07:06.100 --> 00:07:08.819 washing as they could have had their choice of 00:07:08.819 --> 00:07:11.480 Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh, or Dwyane Wade. 00:07:11.639 --> 00:07:13.040 And they gave that up for Otis Thorpe, who... 00:07:13.040 --> 00:07:15.279 Played only 47 games for them before they let 00:07:15.279 --> 00:07:17.800 him go. Unbelievable. It's brutal. They basically 00:07:17.800 --> 00:07:20.759 traded a future Hall of Famer for less than a... 00:07:20.779 --> 00:07:23.839 season of an aging bet. The only saving grace 00:07:23.839 --> 00:07:26.379 is that Detroit used the pick on Darko Milicic, 00:07:26.399 --> 00:07:28.899 who was a bust, but still, the opportunity was 00:07:28.899 --> 00:07:31.360 lost. That's a huge what if that hangs over everything. 00:07:31.660 --> 00:07:34.180 It really is. But even with that massive hole, 00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:36.819 Jerry West gets the team to the playoffs for 00:07:36.819 --> 00:07:40.319 the first time ever in 2004. He does. Hubie Brown 00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:42.680 wins coach of the year, the team wins 50 games 00:07:42.680 --> 00:07:44.939 for the first time, and they get the sixth seed. 00:07:45.079 --> 00:07:47.439 It was a complete turnaround. But the playoffs 00:07:47.439 --> 00:07:50.910 were a different story. Very harsh lesson. A 00:07:50.910 --> 00:07:53.589 vertical learning curve, as they say. They got 00:07:53.589 --> 00:07:56.790 swept four new in the first round by the Spurs. 00:07:56.970 --> 00:07:59.470 Ouch. And it became a pattern. They got swept 00:07:59.470 --> 00:08:02.589 again in 2005 by the Suns and then swept a third 00:08:02.589 --> 00:08:05.250 time in 2006 by the Mavericks. Three straight 00:08:05.250 --> 00:08:07.589 playoff appearances, three straight sweeps. Yeah. 00:08:07.670 --> 00:08:09.589 It showed they could win in the regular season, 00:08:09.709 --> 00:08:11.649 but they just weren't built for the postseason 00:08:11.649 --> 00:08:14.850 grind. We also see Hubie Brown step down. There's 00:08:14.850 --> 00:08:17.870 friction with the new coach, Mike Fratello. it 00:08:17.870 --> 00:08:20.310 starts to unravel a bit. It does. And then Pau 00:08:20.310 --> 00:08:23.750 Gasol braces foot before the 2006 -07 season, 00:08:23.889 --> 00:08:26.649 and the team just craters. They finish with the 00:08:26.649 --> 00:08:29.389 worst record in the league, 22 -60. And that 00:08:29.389 --> 00:08:31.410 was it for Jerry West? That was it. He resigned. 00:08:31.490 --> 00:08:33.370 He'd brought them relevance and respectability, 00:08:33.490 --> 00:08:36.009 but not the ultimate prize. Which brings in a 00:08:36.009 --> 00:08:38.549 new GM, Chris Wallace, who makes a key draft 00:08:38.549 --> 00:08:42.710 pick right away. In the 2007 draft, they get 00:08:42.710 --> 00:08:45.629 the fourth pick and select Mike Conley Jr. The 00:08:45.629 --> 00:08:47.950 future. The absolute foundation for the next 00:08:47.950 --> 00:08:50.769 decade. And then in 2008 comes the trade that 00:08:50.769 --> 00:08:53.549 officially ends the Pau Gasol era. And at the 00:08:53.549 --> 00:08:56.269 time, this was seen as an absolutely terrible, 00:08:56.470 --> 00:08:59.230 lopsided trade. Oh, people were furious. Yeah. 00:08:59.289 --> 00:09:02.549 On February 1st, 2008, they send Pau to the Lakers. 00:09:02.889 --> 00:09:06.090 And in return, they get back Kwame Brown, Javaris 00:09:06.090 --> 00:09:08.509 Crittenton, Aaron McKee, two first -round picks, 00:09:08.710 --> 00:09:11.750 and... The hidden gem. The rights to Pau's younger 00:09:11.750 --> 00:09:13.769 brother, Marc Gasol, who was playing over in 00:09:13.769 --> 00:09:15.769 Spain. Nobody knew who... Marc Gasol was at the 00:09:15.769 --> 00:09:18.409 time. The Lakers get pow and immediately win 00:09:18.409 --> 00:09:20.789 titles. It looked like a fleece job. It did. 00:09:20.909 --> 00:09:24.070 But Marc's development into this all -world defensive 00:09:24.070 --> 00:09:26.330 center completely flipped the script on that 00:09:26.330 --> 00:09:28.210 trade. It ended up being maybe the best trade 00:09:28.210 --> 00:09:30.649 in franchise history. Just accidentally. Before 00:09:30.649 --> 00:09:33.149 that new era really takes hold, there were some 00:09:33.149 --> 00:09:35.549 strange moments. A few false starts for sure. 00:09:35.610 --> 00:09:38.210 They drafted Hashim Thabit second overall in 00:09:38.210 --> 00:09:41.210 2009. A huge bust. And the Allen Iverson experiment. 00:09:41.649 --> 00:09:45.250 Oh, that was bizarre. He signed a one -year deal, 00:09:45.409 --> 00:09:48.409 played three games. None of them in Memphis complained 00:09:48.409 --> 00:09:51.990 about his role and was gone. Just a weird footnote. 00:09:52.149 --> 00:09:55.049 But slowly, the pieces are coming together. They 00:09:55.049 --> 00:09:58.870 trade for Zach Randolph. Zeebo. And Marc Gasol 00:09:58.870 --> 00:10:01.470 is starting to look like the real deal. And with 00:10:01.470 --> 00:10:03.190 Mike Conley running the point, you could see 00:10:03.190 --> 00:10:06.149 something building. They went 40 -42 in 2009 00:10:06.149 --> 00:10:09.389 -10. The identity was shifting. Right. It wasn't 00:10:09.389 --> 00:10:12.009 about finesse anymore. No. It was becoming tough. 00:10:12.460 --> 00:10:15.299 Physical and rugged. Which brings us to the most 00:10:15.299 --> 00:10:18.100 iconic period in the team's history. The grit 00:10:18.100 --> 00:10:21.080 and grind era. And that phrase, grit and grind, 00:10:21.120 --> 00:10:23.019 it wasn't just marketing, was it? No, it was 00:10:23.019 --> 00:10:25.340 a whole philosophy, a tactical commitment. It 00:10:25.340 --> 00:10:28.580 was built on two things. One. suffocating disruptive 00:10:28.580 --> 00:10:32.440 defense, and two, a powerful inside -out offense. 00:10:32.720 --> 00:10:34.940 And the stats really back that up. They do. In 00:10:34.940 --> 00:10:37.419 that 2010 -11 season, they led the entire league 00:10:37.419 --> 00:10:39.179 in steals. They just harassed you on defense. 00:10:39.460 --> 00:10:41.080 And on offense, since they couldn't really shoot 00:10:41.080 --> 00:10:42.759 threes, they just pounded the ball inside to 00:10:42.759 --> 00:10:44.919 Zeebo and Marc Gasol and dominated the paint. 00:10:45.059 --> 00:10:47.299 This whole identity really formed around four 00:10:47.299 --> 00:10:51.080 key players. The big four. The core four. You 00:10:51.080 --> 00:10:53.879 had Mike Conley, the steady leader at the point. 00:10:54.019 --> 00:10:57.200 Zach Randolph, Z -Bo, just a beast inside. His 00:10:57.200 --> 00:11:00.259 number 50 is retired now. Marc Gasol, the brilliant 00:11:00.259 --> 00:11:02.480 defensive anchor. And then the heart and soul 00:11:02.480 --> 00:11:05.139 of the whole thing, Tony Allen. The grindfather. 00:11:05.340 --> 00:11:08.500 The grindfather. He was defense in human form. 00:11:08.740 --> 00:11:11.659 His intensity just set the tone for the entire 00:11:11.659 --> 00:11:13.879 team. His number nine is getting retired soon, 00:11:13.960 --> 00:11:16.860 too. Those four guys were Memphis basketball. 00:11:17.179 --> 00:11:19.659 And the first real payoff for this new identity. 00:11:20.059 --> 00:11:23.240 comes in the 2011 playoffs. They get in as an 00:11:23.240 --> 00:11:25.059 eighth seed. An eighth seed, yeah. And their 00:11:25.059 --> 00:11:27.679 opponent, the number one seed, San Antonio Spurs. 00:11:28.220 --> 00:11:30.740 The team that had always owned them. The expectation 00:11:30.740 --> 00:11:33.379 was another sweep. Of course. But this Grizzlies 00:11:33.379 --> 00:11:35.259 team was different. They went in there and they 00:11:35.259 --> 00:11:37.720 just shocked the world. It was just a series 00:11:37.720 --> 00:11:40.059 of firsts for the franchise. A total breakthrough. 00:11:40.299 --> 00:11:42.840 They got their first ever playoff game win. their 00:11:42.840 --> 00:11:45.740 first ever home playoff game win. And then they 00:11:45.740 --> 00:11:48.220 won the series 4 -2, their first ever playoff 00:11:48.220 --> 00:11:50.620 series victory. That atmosphere in the FedEx 00:11:50.620 --> 00:11:53.330 Forum must have been electric. Legendary. It 00:11:53.330 --> 00:11:56.889 was just this explosion of joy and validation 00:11:56.889 --> 00:11:59.169 for the city and the team. And that put them 00:11:59.169 --> 00:12:01.669 in some pretty elite company. It did. It was 00:12:01.669 --> 00:12:03.750 only the fourth time an eight seed had beaten 00:12:03.750 --> 00:12:06.669 a one seed in NBA history. They went on to lose 00:12:06.669 --> 00:12:09.710 a type seven game series to OKC, but the statement 00:12:09.710 --> 00:12:12.070 was made. They missed the playoffs the next year, 00:12:12.110 --> 00:12:15.440 but then. They hit their absolute peak in the 00:12:15.440 --> 00:12:18.539 2012 -13 season. That was the year a new owner, 00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:22.279 Robert Pera, comes in. And they make a huge trade 00:12:22.279 --> 00:12:25.019 mid -season. Trading away Rudy Gay. Yeah, their 00:12:25.019 --> 00:12:28.179 leading scorer. For more defensive -minded guys 00:12:28.179 --> 00:12:30.980 like Tayshaun Prince, it was a signal that they 00:12:30.980 --> 00:12:33.340 were all in on grit and grind. And it worked. 00:12:33.559 --> 00:12:35.840 It worked perfectly. They finished with the best 00:12:35.840 --> 00:12:39.919 record in franchise history, 56 -26. And Marc 00:12:39.919 --> 00:12:41.759 Gasol gets named Defensive Player of the Year. 00:12:41.919 --> 00:12:44.159 He was a monster that season, and that playoff 00:12:44.159 --> 00:12:46.159 run was the high point. They got revenge on the 00:12:46.159 --> 00:12:48.440 Clippers, who beat them the year before. Then 00:12:48.440 --> 00:12:51.519 they beat a great OKC team. Reaching the Western 00:12:51.519 --> 00:12:53.940 Conference Finals for the first time ever. The 00:12:53.940 --> 00:12:56.610 first and only time. It was the culmination of 00:12:56.610 --> 00:12:59.590 everything they'd built. But then, the old nemesis 00:12:59.590 --> 00:13:02.830 was waiting. The Spurs. And they were just on 00:13:02.830 --> 00:13:05.049 another level. They swept the Grizzlies 4 -0, 00:13:05.190 --> 00:13:08.529 a really painful anticlimactic end to a magical 00:13:08.529 --> 00:13:11.169 season. The next few years, they were always 00:13:11.169 --> 00:13:14.610 in the mix, but you could see the physical toll. 00:13:15.259 --> 00:13:17.980 of that style starting to add up. For sure. They 00:13:17.980 --> 00:13:20.299 made the playoffs seven straight years. The 2015 00:13:20.299 --> 00:13:23.220 run was memorable. A Mike Conley masked series. 00:13:23.360 --> 00:13:25.559 Yes. He breaks his face, comes back wearing a 00:13:25.559 --> 00:13:28.279 protective mask, and they actually go up 2 -1 00:13:28.279 --> 00:13:30.460 on the Warriors who were on their way to a title. 00:13:30.580 --> 00:13:32.620 Just pure toughness. The wheels finally came 00:13:32.620 --> 00:13:35.639 off in 2016. The injuries just decimated them. 00:13:35.700 --> 00:13:38.000 It was brutal. They set an NBA record that year 00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:40.919 by using 28 different players. 28? Just a revolving 00:13:40.919 --> 00:13:43.539 door. And they got swept by the Spurs again in 00:13:43.539 --> 00:13:45.000 the first round. And that was... pretty much 00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:47.340 the end of the era. It was. In the summer of 00:13:47.340 --> 00:13:50.840 2017, Zeebo left for the Kings and Tony Allen 00:13:50.840 --> 00:13:53.539 left for the Pelicans. The grit and grind chapter 00:13:53.539 --> 00:13:56.559 was officially closed. And the years immediately 00:13:56.559 --> 00:14:01.179 after were pretty rough. Very rough. They tied 00:14:01.179 --> 00:14:03.879 the franchise record with a 19 game losing streak 00:14:03.879 --> 00:14:06.860 in 2018. And then in 2019, they traded the last 00:14:06.860 --> 00:14:09.730 two pillars. Marc Gasol goes to Toronto. And 00:14:09.730 --> 00:14:12.269 wins a championship that same year. A bittersweet 00:14:12.269 --> 00:14:14.830 moment. And finally, Mike Conley is traded to 00:14:14.830 --> 00:14:17.429 the Jazz. But the team immediately announced 00:14:17.429 --> 00:14:20.029 they'd retire as number 11. A sign of ultimate 00:14:20.029 --> 00:14:24.190 respect. A total reset. The end of one era and 00:14:24.190 --> 00:14:26.149 the beginning of a completely new one. Which 00:14:26.149 --> 00:14:29.350 brings us to 2019 and the John Morant era. And 00:14:29.350 --> 00:14:31.350 this is a total philosophical shift from the 00:14:31.350 --> 00:14:34.730 top down. A radical shift. The owner, Robert 00:14:34.730 --> 00:14:38.559 Pera. basically cleaned house. He wanted a modern 00:14:38.559 --> 00:14:40.960 analytics driven front office. Chris Wallace, 00:14:41.179 --> 00:14:43.700 the longtime GM, is moved to a scouting role. 00:14:43.820 --> 00:14:46.759 Right. And they promote a young executive, Zachary 00:14:46.759 --> 00:14:48.919 Kleinman, to be the new GM. Kleinman's first 00:14:48.919 --> 00:14:51.840 moves were to hire Taylor Jenkins as coach. And 00:14:51.840 --> 00:14:53.980 then, well, he got very lucky in the draft lottery. 00:14:54.120 --> 00:14:55.919 The timing was perfect. They land the number 00:14:55.919 --> 00:14:58.299 two overall pick in the 2019 draft. And they 00:14:58.299 --> 00:15:00.940 take John Moran. an explosive athletic point 00:15:00.940 --> 00:15:03.159 guard who was the complete opposite of the old 00:15:03.159 --> 00:15:05.940 grit and grind style. They also trade up to get 00:15:05.940 --> 00:15:08.620 Brandon Clark. A new core was born overnight. 00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:11.519 And Morant's impact was just immediate. Instant 00:15:11.519 --> 00:15:14.539 electricity. He brought a swagger and a high 00:15:14.539 --> 00:15:16.820 -flying style back to Memphis. He wins rookie 00:15:16.820 --> 00:15:20.840 of the year almost unanimously. 99 out of 100 00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:23.860 first -place votes. It was clear right away that 00:15:23.860 --> 00:15:25.759 the direction had changed for the better. By 00:15:25.759 --> 00:15:29.019 their second year? 2020 -21, they're already 00:15:29.019 --> 00:15:31.179 in the playoff hunt. Yeah, they used that new 00:15:31.179 --> 00:15:32.940 play -in tournament. They beat the Spurs, and 00:15:32.940 --> 00:15:35.279 then they have this amazing game against Steph 00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:37.500 Curry and the Warriors. Morant goes off for 35. 00:15:37.899 --> 00:15:40.600 And they win, clinching the eighth seed. They 00:15:40.600 --> 00:15:42.320 lost to the Jazz in the first round, but they 00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:44.460 even stole a game in that series. You could see 00:15:44.460 --> 00:15:47.980 the potential. And then... The 2021 -22 season 00:15:47.980 --> 00:15:51.100 happens, and they make a huge leap. A massive 00:15:51.100 --> 00:15:53.600 leap. From a plucky playing team to a legitimate 00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:57.240 contender, they finish 56 -26. Tying the franchise 00:15:57.240 --> 00:15:59.539 record for wins. Tying the record, yeah. And 00:15:59.539 --> 00:16:01.559 they win their first ever division title and 00:16:01.559 --> 00:16:03.919 get the number two seat in the West. They lost 00:16:03.919 --> 00:16:06.080 to the Warriors in the second round, but the 00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:09.240 message was sent that Grizzlies were back. For 00:16:09.240 --> 00:16:11.240 sure. And that success carried into the next 00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:13.559 year. They won 51 games, won the division again, 00:16:13.639 --> 00:16:16.019 got the second seat again. And that was the year 00:16:16.019 --> 00:16:18.639 Jaron Jackson Jr. really broke out. He did. He 00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:20.600 made the All -Star team and he won Defensive 00:16:20.600 --> 00:16:22.240 Player of the Year, just like Marc Gasol did. 00:16:22.740 --> 00:16:25.720 It showed that even with this new fast -paced 00:16:25.720 --> 00:16:28.480 style, elite defense was still in their DNA. 00:16:29.049 --> 00:16:30.990 But that playoff run ended in disappointment. 00:16:31.289 --> 00:16:33.929 A big disappointment. They got upset by the 7th 00:16:33.929 --> 00:16:36.049 seed Lakers in the first round. Some of their 00:16:36.049 --> 00:16:38.450 youth and inexperience really showed in that 00:16:38.450 --> 00:16:40.909 series. And if the grit and grind era ended because 00:16:40.909 --> 00:16:44.570 of age and attrition, the 2023 -24 season was 00:16:44.570 --> 00:16:48.340 derailed by... Well, volatility and injuries? 00:16:48.580 --> 00:16:51.019 It was a disaster of a year. Morant was suspended 00:16:51.019 --> 00:16:53.720 for the first 25 games for off -court issues. 00:16:53.919 --> 00:16:55.919 He comes back, looks great, and then he tears 00:16:55.919 --> 00:16:57.899 his shoulder and is out for the season. And the 00:16:57.899 --> 00:16:59.340 injuries just piled up from there. It was like 00:16:59.340 --> 00:17:02.600 2016 all over again. A total repeat. Key guys, 00:17:02.779 --> 00:17:04.640 they brought in like Marcus Smart, Derrick Rose. 00:17:04.779 --> 00:17:08.079 They barely played. They finished 27 -55 and 00:17:08.079 --> 00:17:10.160 set another league record for the most players 00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:12.359 used in a season. So when you look at their record 00:17:12.359 --> 00:17:14.960 over the last five years, it's just this wild 00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:18.670 roller coaster. It's incredible. Two 50 -plus 00:17:18.670 --> 00:17:22.109 win seasons and two division titles, sandwiched 00:17:22.109 --> 00:17:24.450 around a play -in appearance and a total collapse 00:17:24.450 --> 00:17:27.569 due to injury. The highs are incredibly high, 00:17:27.690 --> 00:17:30.490 but the potential for things to go south is always 00:17:30.490 --> 00:17:33.630 there. It's a fascinating dynamic. And beyond 00:17:33.630 --> 00:17:35.750 just the wins and losses, this team has done 00:17:35.750 --> 00:17:38.369 an amazing job of weaving the culture of Memphis 00:17:38.369 --> 00:17:40.990 into its identity. More than maybe any other 00:17:40.990 --> 00:17:43.140 team in the league. We've talked about the arenas 00:17:43.140 --> 00:17:46.500 from GM Place to the Pyramid to the FedEx Forum, 00:17:46.660 --> 00:17:49.240 but it's the traditions inside those buildings 00:17:49.240 --> 00:17:51.180 that really matter. Absolutely. And you have 00:17:51.180 --> 00:17:53.319 to start with the mascot. Grizz. Who has this 00:17:53.319 --> 00:17:55.700 really touching story connected to the community. 00:17:55.880 --> 00:17:58.799 Yeah. In 2007, the performer who plays Grizz 00:17:58.799 --> 00:18:01.539 was diagnosed with cancer. And the team started 00:18:01.539 --> 00:18:04.000 this Friends of Grizz program to raise money 00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:06.900 for St. Jude Children's Research Hospital, which 00:18:06.900 --> 00:18:09.700 is such a vital institution in Memphis. It created 00:18:09.700 --> 00:18:12.200 this deep, meaningful bond. And then you have 00:18:12.200 --> 00:18:15.079 the visual signature of the playoff runs. The 00:18:15.079 --> 00:18:17.380 growl towels. The gold growl towels. They're 00:18:17.380 --> 00:18:19.299 everywhere during the playoffs. And they always 00:18:19.299 --> 00:18:22.069 have these perfect. defiant slogans on them. 00:18:22.289 --> 00:18:25.230 Slogans like grit and grind, all heart, and my 00:18:25.230 --> 00:18:27.430 personal favorite, ain't no running in the M. 00:18:28.029 --> 00:18:31.190 It's so perfectly Memphis. It is. But maybe the 00:18:31.190 --> 00:18:33.829 most organic tradition of all is the whoop that 00:18:33.829 --> 00:18:36.589 trick chant. Which came completely out of nowhere. 00:18:36.650 --> 00:18:39.230 Totally spontaneous. It's from a song in the 00:18:39.230 --> 00:18:41.430 movie Hustle and Flow, which was filmed in Memphis. 00:18:41.690 --> 00:18:44.190 And during a heated playoff series against the 00:18:44.190 --> 00:18:46.750 Clippers in 2013, the crowd just started chanting 00:18:46.750 --> 00:18:49.630 it. It wasn't planned. It wasn't corporate. It 00:18:49.630 --> 00:18:52.150 was just real. That's amazing. And that same 00:18:52.150 --> 00:18:54.430 level of cultural connection shows up in their 00:18:54.430 --> 00:18:56.970 uniforms? Especially the city edition uniforms. 00:18:57.190 --> 00:18:59.369 They've been incredible. The first one in 2017 00:18:59.369 --> 00:19:02.309 was a tribute to Martin Luther King Jr. Others 00:19:02.309 --> 00:19:04.829 have used lettering inspired by the I Am A Man 00:19:04.829 --> 00:19:08.289 sanitation strike banners from 1968. They've 00:19:08.289 --> 00:19:11.549 paid tribute to Stax Records and Isaac Hayes, 00:19:11.569 --> 00:19:15.089 to the Memphis rap scene, even to the city's 00:19:15.089 --> 00:19:17.200 pro wrestling history. That's a level of detail 00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:19.140 and respect you just don't see anywhere else. 00:19:19.240 --> 00:19:21.140 It's brilliant. It makes the team feel like it 00:19:21.140 --> 00:19:23.940 truly belongs to the city and its history. Now, 00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:27.460 all that identity and toughness created some 00:19:27.460 --> 00:19:30.119 pretty intense rivalries, almost all of them 00:19:30.119 --> 00:19:32.880 forged in the playoffs. Let's start with the 00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:35.519 Clippers. The Clippers rivalry was just pure 00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:38.559 animosity. It was their lob city flash against 00:19:38.559 --> 00:19:41.900 the Grizzlies grit and grind physicality. And 00:19:41.900 --> 00:19:44.259 that got personal. Very personal. You had Zeebo 00:19:44.259 --> 00:19:46.819 and Blake Griffin constantly getting into it. 00:19:46.839 --> 00:19:49.980 There was the infamous floppers giveaway where 00:19:49.980 --> 00:19:52.259 the Grizzlies gave out flip flops to mock the 00:19:52.259 --> 00:19:55.119 Clippers. It was nasty. Then you have the Thunder. 00:19:55.660 --> 00:19:58.279 A rivalry with a bit more history. Yeah, it goes 00:19:58.279 --> 00:20:00.759 back to the Vancouver -Seattle days. But it really 00:20:00.759 --> 00:20:03.019 heated up with four different playoff matchups. 00:20:03.019 --> 00:20:06.000 The 2014 series was an all -timer. An epic seven 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:08.319 -game war. Four straight games went to overtime. 00:20:08.579 --> 00:20:11.079 But it ended in heartbreak for Memphis when Zeebo 00:20:11.079 --> 00:20:13.700 got suspended for Game 7. And finally, the oldest 00:20:13.700 --> 00:20:16.700 rivalry. The one against the Spurs. The Spurs 00:20:16.700 --> 00:20:18.680 are the ultimate measuring stick for this franchise. 00:20:18.940 --> 00:20:20.880 It started with that first -ever playoff sweep 00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:24.089 in 2004. But it also includes... Their greatest 00:20:24.089 --> 00:20:27.710 moment, the 2011 upset. That eight seed over 00:20:27.710 --> 00:20:30.390 one seed upset was the moment the Grizzlies arrived. 00:20:30.490 --> 00:20:33.609 But in the end, the Spurs always seemed to have 00:20:33.609 --> 00:20:35.849 their number when it really mattered. Sweeping 00:20:35.849 --> 00:20:38.869 them in the conference finals in 2013. And sweeping 00:20:38.869 --> 00:20:41.849 them again in 2016. The Spurs have consistently 00:20:41.849 --> 00:20:44.049 been the mountain they just couldn't quite climb. 00:20:44.569 --> 00:20:46.329 So when you zoom out and look at the whole picture, 00:20:46.450 --> 00:20:49.069 you see this constant cycle of change, especially 00:20:49.069 --> 00:20:51.710 in the front office. A lot of turnover. Yeah. 00:20:51.809 --> 00:20:54.970 You go from Stu Jackson in Vancouver to Jerry 00:20:54.970 --> 00:20:58.069 West building the first winner to Chris Wallace 00:20:58.069 --> 00:21:01.349 overseeing grit and grind. And now to Zach Kleiman 00:21:01.349 --> 00:21:04.390 in the analytics era. Each GM brought a totally 00:21:04.390 --> 00:21:06.569 different philosophy. And even without a championship, 00:21:06.910 --> 00:21:10.089 they've built a real legacy. A strong one. You've 00:21:10.089 --> 00:21:12.410 got Hall of Famers who played there, like Pau 00:21:12.410 --> 00:21:14.809 Gasol and Vince Carter. Hall of Fame contributors 00:21:14.809 --> 00:21:17.890 like Jerry West and Hubie Brown. And most importantly, 00:21:18.109 --> 00:21:20.109 they've honored their own. They really have. 00:21:20.549 --> 00:21:23.250 Retiring the numbers of Zeebo, Marc Gasol, and 00:21:23.250 --> 00:21:26.230 soon Tony Allen and Mike Conley, it shows a deep 00:21:26.230 --> 00:21:28.289 respect for that era and what it meant to the 00:21:28.289 --> 00:21:31.890 city. So to wrap this all up... The main theme 00:21:31.890 --> 00:21:34.029 seems to be a franchise that has constantly had 00:21:34.029 --> 00:21:37.069 to define and redefine itself, navigating these 00:21:37.069 --> 00:21:39.170 incredible highs and devastating lows. I think 00:21:39.170 --> 00:21:40.890 that's exactly right. And the biggest takeaway 00:21:40.890 --> 00:21:43.430 for me is how critical those key personnel decisions 00:21:43.430 --> 00:21:46.430 were. Jerry West coming in, trading Powell for 00:21:46.430 --> 00:21:48.990 the rights to Mark, Kleinman drafting John Morant. 00:21:49.089 --> 00:21:51.829 Those moments changed everything. And the way 00:21:51.829 --> 00:21:54.109 they've woven Memphis culture into their very 00:21:54.109 --> 00:21:56.569 fabric is just unique. Which leaves us with a 00:21:56.569 --> 00:21:58.970 final thought to connect all of this. The John 00:21:58.970 --> 00:22:01.250 Morant era is defined by... incredible talent 00:22:01.250 --> 00:22:03.869 but also by that volatility we talked about the 00:22:03.869 --> 00:22:06.890 injuries the off -court issues it feels unstable 00:22:06.890 --> 00:22:10.309 and given the franchise's history of these massive 00:22:10.309 --> 00:22:13.309 swings between success and rebuilding it raises 00:22:13.309 --> 00:22:15.190 a really important question for you to think 00:22:15.190 --> 00:22:17.369 about How can the current front office with this 00:22:17.369 --> 00:22:19.970 amazing young core learn from the mistakes of 00:22:19.970 --> 00:22:23.009 the past? How do they avoid the injury -fueled 00:22:23.009 --> 00:22:25.390 collapse that ended the grit and grind era and 00:22:25.390 --> 00:22:28.210 that we saw a preview of in 2024? How do they 00:22:28.210 --> 00:22:30.930 finally achieve the kind of sustained championship 00:22:30.930 --> 00:22:33.369 -level success that has always been just out 00:22:33.369 --> 00:22:36.230 of reach? How do they finally break the cycle 00:22:36.230 --> 00:22:39.170 of boom and bust that has defined their entire 00:22:39.170 --> 00:22:42.130 history? That's the challenge ahead. And that's 00:22:42.130 --> 00:22:43.849 something for you to mull over until our next 00:22:43.849 --> 00:22:47.890 deep dive. Welcome to The Debate. Today we're 00:22:47.890 --> 00:22:51.730 diving deep into the history of the Memphis Grizzlies. 00:22:51.869 --> 00:22:55.569 And it's a really distinctive... Almost improbable 00:22:55.569 --> 00:22:57.509 history when you look at it. I mean, this is 00:22:57.509 --> 00:22:59.529 a franchise that truly embodies perseverance. 00:22:59.849 --> 00:23:03.210 It shifted from the struggling origins as an 00:23:03.210 --> 00:23:06.549 expansion team up in Vancouver through that sometimes 00:23:06.549 --> 00:23:09.890 kind of directionless Pau Gasol era in the early 00:23:09.890 --> 00:23:13.369 2000s to finally, finally establishing itself 00:23:13.369 --> 00:23:16.519 as a consistent contender. And what a journey 00:23:16.519 --> 00:23:19.200 it's been. You're right. Memphis is, I think, 00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:21.079 one of the most remarkable franchise turnarounds 00:23:21.079 --> 00:23:23.480 in modern sports. They went from being, you know, 00:23:23.480 --> 00:23:26.039 a perennial stellar dweller to a respected, if 00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:28.519 still mid -market power. And when we look at 00:23:28.519 --> 00:23:30.779 the last, what, decade and a half of that success, 00:23:31.079 --> 00:23:33.500 there are two really distinct, almost titanic 00:23:33.500 --> 00:23:35.960 periods that stand out. The rugged, defensive 00:23:35.960 --> 00:23:38.460 -minded grid and grind era, and of course, the 00:23:38.460 --> 00:23:41.720 explosive, high -seating, John Morant era. Exactly. 00:23:42.509 --> 00:23:45.430 And that split brings us to our core disagreement 00:23:45.430 --> 00:23:48.650 today. We're asking which of these two periods, 00:23:48.890 --> 00:23:51.670 the grit and grind core that ran from, let's 00:23:51.670 --> 00:23:55.250 say, 2010 to 2019, or the current John Morant 00:23:55.250 --> 00:23:58.289 driven era that started with that 2019 front 00:23:58.289 --> 00:24:01.309 office restructuring, which one established the 00:24:01.309 --> 00:24:03.930 most significant, the most enduring foundation 00:24:03.930 --> 00:24:06.559 for the Memphis Grizzlies franchise? And for 00:24:06.559 --> 00:24:09.200 me, that foundation has to be judged by peak 00:24:09.200 --> 00:24:11.940 achievement and organizational structure. It 00:24:11.940 --> 00:24:14.400 just has to. So therefore, the John Morant era 00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:17.460 is the true operational peak. I mean, it achieved 00:24:17.460 --> 00:24:19.940 the highest success metrics, the highest seating. 00:24:20.119 --> 00:24:23.279 And that's the undeniable foundation for sustainable, 00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:27.299 modern NBA relevance. See, I think that focuses 00:24:27.299 --> 00:24:30.500 too heavily on the roof rather than the footing. 00:24:31.069 --> 00:24:34.170 My position is that the grit and grind era provided 00:24:34.170 --> 00:24:37.869 the essential identity, the culture, and the 00:24:37.869 --> 00:24:40.829 fundamental framework for success that even this 00:24:40.829 --> 00:24:44.710 current very talented team still relies on. It 00:24:44.710 --> 00:24:47.569 established what it means to be the Memphis Grizzlies 00:24:47.569 --> 00:24:50.390 in a way that nothing before or since has really 00:24:50.390 --> 00:24:53.049 touched. Okay, so let's delve into what that 00:24:53.049 --> 00:24:55.410 grit and grind definition really encompasses 00:24:55.410 --> 00:24:58.519 then. I absolutely grant that the core of Mike 00:24:58.519 --> 00:25:01.880 Conley, Zach Randolph, Marc Gasol, and Tony Allen 00:25:01.880 --> 00:25:04.880 provided a deep emotional connection to the city. 00:25:05.039 --> 00:25:07.160 I mean, it was cultural lightning in a bottle, 00:25:07.220 --> 00:25:10.460 for sure. Oh, it was far more than emotion. It 00:25:10.460 --> 00:25:14.940 was defined by a tangible, a strategic uniqueness 00:25:14.940 --> 00:25:17.700 that delivered the franchise's most significant 00:25:17.700 --> 00:25:21.180 firsts. We often forget how unusual their style 00:25:21.180 --> 00:25:25.769 was in that era. A commitment to disruptive defense 00:25:25.769 --> 00:25:28.269 through high pressure on the ball, which is why 00:25:28.269 --> 00:25:31.269 they led the league in steals in 2010 -11. And 00:25:31.269 --> 00:25:33.369 they married that defense with this stubborn, 00:25:33.569 --> 00:25:37.170 efficient, inside -out offense, you know, routinely 00:25:37.170 --> 00:25:40.109 leading the league in points in the paint. They 00:25:40.109 --> 00:25:43.309 were kind of the anti -modern NBA. And it worked. 00:25:43.490 --> 00:25:46.549 They were definitely contrarian. And that contrarian 00:25:46.549 --> 00:25:49.750 spirit is what broke the franchise curse. In 00:25:49.750 --> 00:25:52.950 2011, as an eight seed, They achieved their first 00:25:52.950 --> 00:25:55.890 ever playoff series victory, stunning the top 00:25:55.890 --> 00:25:58.730 seeded San Antonio Spurs. That wasn't just a 00:25:58.730 --> 00:26:01.430 win. It was one of the most historically significant 00:26:01.430 --> 00:26:04.549 upsets in NBA history. It was only the second 00:26:04.549 --> 00:26:07.309 time an 8C had beaten a one seed in a best of 00:26:07.309 --> 00:26:09.569 seven series. I mean, that is the kind of breakthrough 00:26:09.569 --> 00:26:12.009 that defines a franchise for decades, regardless 00:26:12.009 --> 00:26:14.809 of what comes later. That 2011 series set the 00:26:14.809 --> 00:26:17.329 tone, certainly. But while that core, which, 00:26:17.369 --> 00:26:19.049 you know, gave us the first Western Conference 00:26:19.049 --> 00:26:21.920 Finals appearance in 2013, and whose two biggest 00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:24.700 names, Zeebo and Marc Gasol, had their numbers 00:26:24.700 --> 00:26:27.519 retired, it was beloved, but it hit a very definite 00:26:27.519 --> 00:26:30.220 ceiling. A ceiling they constructed themselves, 00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:34.059 I might add. I would argue the current era constructs 00:26:34.059 --> 00:26:37.019 a higher ceiling. You focus on the roots, but 00:26:37.019 --> 00:26:40.259 I'm focusing on the structural height. The Jomoran 00:26:40.259 --> 00:26:43.039 era, guided by that whole restructuring under 00:26:43.039 --> 00:26:46.460 Zachary Kleinman in 2019, delivered the highest 00:26:46.460 --> 00:26:49.420 level of institutional success and, frankly, 00:26:49.519 --> 00:26:52.160 validation. And what evidence do you have that 00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:54.480 climb and structure is a better foundation in 00:26:54.480 --> 00:26:57.140 the grit and grind culture? Quantifiable organizational 00:26:57.140 --> 00:27:00.259 dominance. The grit and grind teams, for all 00:27:00.259 --> 00:27:02.599 their tenacity, were frequently just battling 00:27:02.599 --> 00:27:05.039 to make the playoffs. They rarely secured home 00:27:05.039 --> 00:27:07.259 court advantage. They peaked at the fifth seed 00:27:07.259 --> 00:27:11.559 twice. By contrast, the Morant era in 2021 -22 00:27:11.559 --> 00:27:14.420 clinched the franchise's first ever division 00:27:14.420 --> 00:27:17.579 title and secured the West's highest ever regular 00:27:17.579 --> 00:27:20.680 season standing, the second seed. on the strength 00:27:20.680 --> 00:27:24.160 of a franchise best 56 wins. And then they immediately 00:27:24.160 --> 00:27:27.200 repeated as division champs the next year. That 00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:29.940 kind of operational efficiency shown over multiple 00:27:29.940 --> 00:27:33.259 seasons provides a much stronger foundation for 00:27:33.259 --> 00:27:35.960 the future. I see that level of regular season 00:27:35.960 --> 00:27:38.920 mastery, and I grant you the second seed is a 00:27:38.920 --> 00:27:41.599 major achievement, especially in the West. But 00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:44.779 that 56 win mark itself is actually shared with 00:27:44.779 --> 00:27:48.299 the 2012 -13 grit and grind team. So your argument 00:27:48.299 --> 00:27:51.160 really rests on seeding. while mine rests on 00:27:51.160 --> 00:27:53.420 substantive historical achievement and cultural 00:27:53.420 --> 00:27:57.019 adoption. Seeding is substantive. It dictates 00:27:57.019 --> 00:28:00.619 your entire path through the playoffs. And what's 00:28:00.619 --> 00:28:02.599 more, the current structure yields definitive, 00:28:02.660 --> 00:28:05.359 top -tier individual success that validates the 00:28:05.359 --> 00:28:07.519 whole system. John Morant wins Rookie of the 00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:09.960 Year. Jaron Jackson Jr. was named Defensive Player 00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:12.619 of the Year. These are concrete proofs of concept 00:28:12.619 --> 00:28:14.839 for a modern, high -functioning front office. 00:28:15.359 --> 00:28:17.519 The foundation Kleinman -Lade prioritizes high 00:28:17.519 --> 00:28:19.880 -value talent acquisition and development, which 00:28:19.880 --> 00:28:21.980 is just superior to the G &G Foundation, which 00:28:21.980 --> 00:28:23.920 relied pretty heavily on late -career free agents, 00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:26.119 and you know, the lottery miracle of that Marc 00:28:26.119 --> 00:28:28.700 Gasol trade. That comparison actually brings 00:28:28.700 --> 00:28:30.559 up a vital point I want to address right away. 00:28:30.660 --> 00:28:32.619 The difference between a cultural foundation 00:28:32.619 --> 00:28:36.460 and just a sheer statistical peak. You're measuring 00:28:36.460 --> 00:28:38.640 the success of the house by the altitude of its 00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:41.019 tallest chimney. I'm measuring it by the depth 00:28:41.019 --> 00:28:43.140 of the basement. And I believe your basement 00:28:43.140 --> 00:28:46.839 was structurally sound, but ultimately outdated. 00:28:47.240 --> 00:28:51.859 Perhaps. But it was enduring. The GNG Corps proved 00:28:51.859 --> 00:28:54.039 that a mid -market team could build a winning 00:28:54.039 --> 00:28:56.200 culture that resonated deeply enough to last 00:28:56.200 --> 00:28:58.700 for almost a decade, even when they were rejecting 00:28:58.700 --> 00:29:01.460 the league's trend toward pace and space. You 00:29:01.460 --> 00:29:03.900 can't just dismiss the power of that 2011 upset 00:29:03.900 --> 00:29:07.740 and the WCF run in 2013. Those events did more 00:29:07.740 --> 00:29:10.119 than win games. They defined Memphis basketball 00:29:10.119 --> 00:29:14.470 nationwide. Yes, but did they truly build the 00:29:14.470 --> 00:29:16.950 foundation? They provided the patience and the 00:29:16.950 --> 00:29:19.549 buy -in from the community that was needed for 00:29:19.549 --> 00:29:22.390 the franchise to survive what came next. I mean, 00:29:22.390 --> 00:29:24.890 think about the cultural artifacts. The growl 00:29:24.890 --> 00:29:27.569 towels, which became a whole franchise tradition 00:29:27.569 --> 00:29:30.210 during those seven straight playoff runs. Or 00:29:30.210 --> 00:29:33.069 the spontaneous electric adoption of Whoop That 00:29:33.069 --> 00:29:36.349 Trick as a signature chant during the 2013 Clipper 00:29:36.349 --> 00:29:39.559 Series. That kind of enduring connection. where 00:29:39.559 --> 00:29:41.819 the team's identity is just inseparable from 00:29:41.819 --> 00:29:44.740 the city's personality. That is the most stable 00:29:44.740 --> 00:29:47.880 foundation a franchise can possibly have. It 00:29:47.880 --> 00:29:51.579 provides deep, long -term fan capital. Fan capital 00:29:51.579 --> 00:29:53.779 is wonderful, but it is fickle when the team 00:29:53.779 --> 00:29:56.819 doesn't perform. We saw that in the 2023 -24 00:29:56.819 --> 00:29:59.299 season. But I want to challenge this premise 00:29:59.299 --> 00:30:02.059 that culture is the primary foundation. If the 00:30:02.059 --> 00:30:04.779 culture was so strong and enduring, why was the 00:30:04.779 --> 00:30:07.900 pivot in 2019, dismantling that beloved core, 00:30:08.099 --> 00:30:11.039 so incredibly painful for the fan base? Didn't 00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:13.119 the new regime demonstrate a stronger foundational 00:30:13.119 --> 00:30:16.660 strategy by prioritizing objective metrics over 00:30:16.660 --> 00:30:19.240 that deep yet ultimately limiting emotional attachment? 00:30:19.740 --> 00:30:23.140 You've hit on the crux of the debate. Yes, the 00:30:23.140 --> 00:30:25.789 pivot was painful. But the Klyman only had the 00:30:25.789 --> 00:30:28.609 political capital to dismantle a revered, identity 00:30:28.609 --> 00:30:32.089 -defining core because the G &G teams had already 00:30:32.089 --> 00:30:34.690 earned the city's trust. They established the 00:30:34.690 --> 00:30:36.670 belief that Memphis was a winning basketball 00:30:36.670 --> 00:30:40.190 town. So Klyman's success is built upon the goodwill 00:30:40.190 --> 00:30:44.250 fostered by Conley, Zeebo, and Gasol. That cultural 00:30:44.250 --> 00:30:46.529 foundation provided the patience for the rebuild 00:30:46.529 --> 00:30:49.309 to even work. I see why you frame it that way 00:30:49.309 --> 00:30:52.329 as a necessary inheritance, but I would argue 00:30:52.329 --> 00:30:55.670 the act of dismantling the core was the true 00:30:55.670 --> 00:30:58.829 foundational moment for the Morant era. It required 00:30:58.829 --> 00:31:02.250 a level of strategic foresight and ruthlessness 00:31:02.250 --> 00:31:05.809 that the previous management often lacked, especially 00:31:05.809 --> 00:31:08.230 when it came to adapting to the modern game. 00:31:08.509 --> 00:31:11.369 Okay, let's pivot to the assembly process itself 00:31:11.369 --> 00:31:14.109 then. If we're talking foundation, we have to 00:31:14.109 --> 00:31:16.170 talk about how the front office actually built 00:31:16.170 --> 00:31:19.079 these teams. I maintain that the G &G Corps was 00:31:19.079 --> 00:31:21.359 assembled through shrewd moves that provided 00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:24.740 long -term structural value, not just high lottery 00:31:24.740 --> 00:31:27.779 luck. Shrewd moves like trading Pau Gasol to 00:31:27.779 --> 00:31:30.420 the Lakers for what everyone at the time ridiculed 00:31:30.420 --> 00:31:34.519 as a minimal return? Exactly. That trade in 2008, 00:31:34.720 --> 00:31:38.279 while painful at first, was foundational because 00:31:38.279 --> 00:31:40.380 we acquired the rights to his younger brother, 00:31:40.500 --> 00:31:43.660 Marc Gasol. acquiring a future defensive player 00:31:43.660 --> 00:31:45.880 of the year and franchise cornerstone for what 00:31:45.880 --> 00:31:48.220 was basically a salary dump and draft filler, 00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:51.779 that shows brilliant long -term talent evaluation. 00:31:52.380 --> 00:31:55.160 You couple that with the savvy free agent signing 00:31:55.160 --> 00:31:58.440 of Zach Randolph in 2009, a player others had 00:31:58.440 --> 00:32:01.299 given up on, and you have a core built on organizational 00:32:01.299 --> 00:32:04.539 intelligence, finding value where others didn't, 00:32:04.539 --> 00:32:07.839 not just relying on draft order. That's a compelling 00:32:07.839 --> 00:32:10.279 narrative, but I'm sorry, I just don't buy that 00:32:10.279 --> 00:32:13.200 it's superior to the current system. The foundation 00:32:13.200 --> 00:32:15.640 established by the Morant -era management was 00:32:15.640 --> 00:32:18.859 crucial for sustainable future success. They 00:32:18.859 --> 00:32:21.839 recognized the flaws of the GNG roster, a lack 00:32:21.839 --> 00:32:24.700 of three -point shooting, aging players, a slow 00:32:24.700 --> 00:32:28.660 pace, and they acted decisively. So you prioritize 00:32:28.660 --> 00:32:32.240 adaptability over stability? Precisely. The decision 00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:35.500 to trade Marc Gasol and Mike Conley Jr. in 2019 00:32:35.500 --> 00:32:38.400 was a masterstroke of organizational timing. 00:32:38.619 --> 00:32:41.160 It led directly to getting the second overall 00:32:41.160 --> 00:32:43.759 pick for John Morant and trading into the draft 00:32:43.759 --> 00:32:46.980 for Brandon Clark and later Desmond Bain. The 00:32:46.980 --> 00:32:49.940 foundational success of this era is that the 00:32:49.940 --> 00:32:52.059 Kleiman -led front office implemented a modern, 00:32:52.180 --> 00:32:55.200 analytical architecture required to achieve elite, 00:32:55.319 --> 00:32:58.059 regular season metrics. They were successful 00:32:58.059 --> 00:32:59.980 because they realized the grit -and -grind foundation 00:32:59.980 --> 00:33:02.740 was rigid, and fundamentally incompatible with 00:33:02.740 --> 00:33:04.900 championship -level basketball in the 2020s. 00:33:04.940 --> 00:33:08.039 I acknowledge the success of those picks, particularly 00:33:08.039 --> 00:33:11.099 Morant and Bain, but the definition of a foundation 00:33:11.099 --> 00:33:14.500 has to include stability. So let's look at the 00:33:14.500 --> 00:33:18.500 postseason results. Both eras, you argue, suffered 00:33:18.500 --> 00:33:21.599 similar fates. They did. Neither foundation led 00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:24.539 to the ultimate goal. The G &G era was swept 00:33:24.539 --> 00:33:27.440 in the 2013 Western Conference Finals, and they 00:33:27.440 --> 00:33:30.509 had multiple early sweeps before that. The Morant 00:33:30.509 --> 00:33:33.549 era, despite that second seed, has also seen 00:33:33.549 --> 00:33:36.690 discouraging results, like the first round loss 00:33:36.690 --> 00:33:39.910 to the seven -seed Lakers in 2023 and that quick, 00:33:39.970 --> 00:33:43.269 humbling sweep by the Thunder in 2025. If the 00:33:43.269 --> 00:33:45.950 foundation was truly set, why haven't they progressed 00:33:45.950 --> 00:33:48.589 further? The Morant team should be outperforming 00:33:48.589 --> 00:33:50.569 grit and grind based on its higher regular season 00:33:50.569 --> 00:33:52.829 dominance. That's an interesting point, though 00:33:52.829 --> 00:33:55.309 I would frame it differently. The foundation 00:33:55.309 --> 00:33:58.730 provided by grit and grind was rooted in longevity 00:33:58.730 --> 00:34:02.170 and credibility. Seven consecutive playoff runs. 00:34:02.269 --> 00:34:04.930 That is a foundational baseline of sustained 00:34:04.930 --> 00:34:07.890 relevance that gave Memphis a permanent identity 00:34:07.890 --> 00:34:10.869 as a tough, respected opponent. This is where 00:34:10.869 --> 00:34:13.949 foundation translates into team reputation. Those 00:34:13.949 --> 00:34:16.889 runs established intense, memorable rivalries 00:34:16.889 --> 00:34:19.329 with the Clippers and the Thunder, rivalries 00:34:19.329 --> 00:34:21.170 that defined a generation of Western Conference 00:34:21.170 --> 00:34:24.420 basketball. That reputation persists. But credibility 00:34:24.420 --> 00:34:27.619 doesn't survive volatility. The Morant area achieved 00:34:27.619 --> 00:34:31.440 a higher, sharper peak with 56 wins, but it showed 00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:34.599 immediate alarming fragility. The very next season, 00:34:34.719 --> 00:34:38.119 2023 -24, was injury -riddled and resulted in 00:34:38.119 --> 00:34:42.039 a sharp drop to a 27 -55 record, setting a record 00:34:42.039 --> 00:34:44.699 for the most players used. That level of collapse 00:34:44.699 --> 00:34:46.800 suggests that the foundation is structurally 00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:49.739 unsound, relying too heavily on the health of 00:34:49.739 --> 00:34:53.760 one or two top -tier talents. The G &G era, defined 00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:56.460 by a system and collective defense, proved far 00:34:56.460 --> 00:34:58.880 more robust in handling those inevitable roster 00:34:58.880 --> 00:35:02.059 changes and injuries. And that, for me, is the 00:35:02.059 --> 00:35:04.500 clearest distinction. The G &G system survived 00:35:04.500 --> 00:35:06.719 injuries and maintained playoff relevance for 00:35:06.719 --> 00:35:09.260 nearly a decade. It built the identity that makes 00:35:09.260 --> 00:35:11.780 the franchise valuable and relevant today. You're 00:35:11.780 --> 00:35:14.000 measuring foundation by peak statistical output. 00:35:14.400 --> 00:35:16.840 I measure it by sustained cultural and competitive 00:35:16.840 --> 00:35:19.099 relevance through adversity. But the organizational 00:35:19.099 --> 00:35:21.619 peak has been achieved under the current structure. 00:35:21.800 --> 00:35:24.380 A foundation that delivers two division titles 00:35:24.380 --> 00:35:27.760 and a second seed is, mathematically, superior 00:35:27.760 --> 00:35:30.639 to one that never cracked the top four. The G 00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:34.190 &G Foundation was the concrete mix. The Morant 00:35:34.190 --> 00:35:36.590 era is the blueprint that proved the architecture 00:35:36.590 --> 00:35:39.409 could actually support a skyscraper. So we've 00:35:39.409 --> 00:35:42.170 established that this debate really hinges on 00:35:42.170 --> 00:35:45.050 defining what a franchise foundation truly is. 00:35:45.210 --> 00:35:48.489 Is it the indelible spirit and community identity 00:35:48.489 --> 00:35:51.849 that guarantees relevance? Or is it the strategic 00:35:51.849 --> 00:35:54.489 organizational architecture that yields the highest 00:35:54.489 --> 00:35:58.190 measurable competitive success? My position remains 00:35:58.190 --> 00:36:01.269 that the John Morant era represents the superior 00:36:01.269 --> 00:36:04.820 operational foundation. Achieving a record -setting 00:36:04.820 --> 00:36:07.800 56 -win season, getting two division titles, 00:36:07.980 --> 00:36:10.139 and claiming the highest seating in franchise 00:36:10.139 --> 00:36:13.079 history, those are objective metrics that prove 00:36:13.079 --> 00:36:15.780 a superior, modernized structure was built in 00:36:15.780 --> 00:36:19.340 2019. It validated the team's ability to compete 00:36:19.340 --> 00:36:22.619 at the absolute highest level. And I continue 00:36:22.619 --> 00:36:25.099 to champion the grit and grind era for creating 00:36:25.099 --> 00:36:28.380 that indelible cultural spirit, the roots, the 00:36:28.380 --> 00:36:31.139 toughness, the rivalries, and the fan engagement. 00:36:31.760 --> 00:36:34.099 They achieved the franchise's first playoff series 00:36:34.099 --> 00:36:36.840 victory and first conference finals appearance, 00:36:37.079 --> 00:36:39.920 defining the very essence of modern Memphis basketball. 00:36:40.300 --> 00:36:43.500 Those cultural roots provided the necessary community 00:36:43.500 --> 00:36:46.460 foundation for any future peak to be meaningful 00:36:46.460 --> 00:36:50.320 and stable. Ultimately, the history of the Grizzlies 00:36:50.320 --> 00:36:54.190 is a fascinating case study. The continuous evolution 00:36:54.190 --> 00:36:57.429 from the trade of Pau Gasol, which yielded the 00:36:57.429 --> 00:36:59.969 core of that defensive grit and grind identity, 00:37:00.250 --> 00:37:04.110 into the high seed analytical Morant era, it 00:37:04.110 --> 00:37:06.190 demonstrates a remarkable upward trajectory. 00:37:06.730 --> 00:37:09.630 It leaves the listener with a compelling choice 00:37:09.630 --> 00:37:13.570 to weigh. What legacy provides the lasting foundation 00:37:13.570 --> 00:37:17.409 for an organization? Is it the decade of consistent 00:37:17.409 --> 00:37:20.969 identity -defining culture? or the organizational 00:37:20.969 --> 00:37:24.329 validation you get through peak, measurable regular 00:37:24.329 --> 00:37:27.530 season success? A complex question that I think 00:37:27.530 --> 00:37:29.690 speaks to the heart of what builds a lasting 00:37:29.690 --> 00:37:30.309 NBA franchise.