WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.000 Welcome to the Deep Dive, where we take vast 00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:04.219 amounts of information articles, research your 00:00:04.219 --> 00:00:06.440 own notes, and distill it into the most essential, 00:00:06.620 --> 00:00:09.519 provocative, and memorable insights, all customized 00:00:09.519 --> 00:00:12.589 for you, our listener. Today, we are undertaking 00:00:12.589 --> 00:00:15.509 a complex and I think a really vital deep dive 00:00:15.509 --> 00:00:18.670 into the life and the enduring work of Sir Solomon 00:00:18.670 --> 00:00:20.510 Rushdie. And our mission here, it isn't just 00:00:20.510 --> 00:00:22.850 to, you know, recount a timeline of his life. 00:00:22.989 --> 00:00:25.530 No, not at all. We're trying to really dissect 00:00:25.530 --> 00:00:29.429 the profound and often violently contested intersection 00:00:29.429 --> 00:00:32.570 between high literature, narrative freedom and 00:00:32.570 --> 00:00:36.270 global geopolitics. We're really looking at. 00:00:36.509 --> 00:00:38.929 Decades of global history, all encapsulated in 00:00:38.929 --> 00:00:41.509 the life of one man. I mean, how does a writer's 00:00:41.509 --> 00:00:44.429 unwavering commitment to storytelling, to the 00:00:44.429 --> 00:00:47.450 complex, challenging narrative of fiction, suddenly 00:00:47.450 --> 00:00:49.990 become the absolute center of a global battleground 00:00:49.990 --> 00:00:52.229 for free expression? Well, the extensive sources 00:00:52.229 --> 00:00:54.649 you shared with us give us a powerful panoramic 00:00:54.649 --> 00:00:57.030 and sometimes, frankly, a chilling view. They 00:00:57.030 --> 00:00:59.390 span his celebrated literary career, his very 00:00:59.390 --> 00:01:01.750 pointed political commentary, and then, of course, 00:01:01.810 --> 00:01:04.310 the meticulous documentation of the decades of 00:01:04.310 --> 00:01:06.500 threats against him. And what makes this story 00:01:06.500 --> 00:01:10.000 so powerful, for me at least, is this fundamental 00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:12.719 tension at the core of Rushdie's public identity. 00:01:12.959 --> 00:01:16.299 It's almost irreconcilable. It is. On the one 00:01:16.299 --> 00:01:19.599 hand, he is unequivocally a literary giant. I 00:01:19.599 --> 00:01:22.040 mean, a Booker Prize winner, a master of magical 00:01:22.040 --> 00:01:24.920 realism. Right. A writer whose most famous work 00:01:24.920 --> 00:01:28.019 was recognized not just once but twice as the 00:01:28.019 --> 00:01:30.879 best novel of all winners in the award's entire 00:01:30.879 --> 00:01:33.319 history. Yeah. This is the artist celebrated 00:01:33.319 --> 00:01:35.859 by the Academy, by his peers. And then on the 00:01:35.859 --> 00:01:37.879 other hand, you have this identity that the world 00:01:37.879 --> 00:01:40.099 basically forced on him. Exactly. The man who 00:01:40.099 --> 00:01:42.579 spent years in effective hiding under state protection. 00:01:42.760 --> 00:01:44.659 The man who lived with a public death sentence 00:01:44.659 --> 00:01:46.900 hanging over his head. And then just recently, 00:01:47.000 --> 00:01:49.459 the man who survived a horrific. brutal attempt 00:01:49.459 --> 00:01:51.640 on his life. In front of a live audience. In 00:01:51.640 --> 00:01:53.560 front of a live audience. It's this profound 00:01:53.560 --> 00:01:56.620 duality. The artist versus the reluctant activist. 00:01:56.840 --> 00:01:59.599 The British, Indian, and American citizen of 00:01:59.599 --> 00:02:02.900 Kashmiri Muslim heritage who, just by writing, 00:02:03.060 --> 00:02:05.859 was forced to lead a life perpetually on the 00:02:05.859 --> 00:02:08.360 edge of a global conflict. That's what we need 00:02:08.360 --> 00:02:12.229 to focus on. OK, so let's unpack this journey. 00:02:12.310 --> 00:02:14.289 Where do we even begin? I think we have to start 00:02:14.289 --> 00:02:16.629 with the formative years, right? The influences 00:02:16.629 --> 00:02:18.949 that shaped his voice. Absolutely. He was born 00:02:18.949 --> 00:02:23.030 Ahmed Salman Rushdie in Bombay in 1947. A very 00:02:23.030 --> 00:02:26.150 precise and pivotal moment. Incredibly so. It 00:02:26.150 --> 00:02:28.509 literally coincides with the birth of independent 00:02:28.509 --> 00:02:31.030 India almost to the stroke of midnight. You couldn't 00:02:31.030 --> 00:02:32.909 write it better. And his family background is. 00:02:33.419 --> 00:02:35.979 It's fascinating. Highly intellectual. His father, 00:02:36.120 --> 00:02:39.080 Anas Ahmed Rushdie, was a Cambridge -educated 00:02:39.080 --> 00:02:41.020 lawyer who went into business. And there's this 00:02:41.020 --> 00:02:43.139 really significant detail about the family name 00:02:43.139 --> 00:02:45.340 itself, which carries enormous symbolic weight 00:02:45.340 --> 00:02:47.400 for his future. The name Rushdie, right. It wasn't 00:02:47.400 --> 00:02:49.960 their original name. No. His father, Anas Ahmed, 00:02:50.139 --> 00:02:52.539 adopted it in honor of the great 12th century 00:02:52.539 --> 00:02:55.500 Andalusian philosopher Averroes, or in Arabic, 00:02:55.680 --> 00:02:58.810 Ibn Rushd. Ibn Rushd. And he was, I mean, he 00:02:58.810 --> 00:03:01.050 was a giant of rationalist thought, wasn't he? 00:03:01.129 --> 00:03:04.289 A giant. Averroes was renowned throughout Europe 00:03:04.289 --> 00:03:07.789 and the Islamic world for his secular rationalist 00:03:07.789 --> 00:03:10.090 interpretations of philosophy, particularly Aristotle. 00:03:10.409 --> 00:03:13.870 And this often put him at odds with orthodox 00:03:13.870 --> 00:03:16.229 theology. So the name itself is a statement. 00:03:16.469 --> 00:03:19.770 It's a statement. This lineage. consciously adopted 00:03:19.770 --> 00:03:22.629 by his father, acknowledges a history of critical, 00:03:22.830 --> 00:03:25.289 rationalist thought within a Muslim context. 00:03:25.689 --> 00:03:28.250 It sets an intellectual stage that would be so 00:03:28.250 --> 00:03:30.669 dramatically reflected in Rushdie's later insistence 00:03:30.669 --> 00:03:33.699 on higher criticism and critical inquiry. His 00:03:33.699 --> 00:03:35.680 education followed a pretty traditional path 00:03:35.680 --> 00:03:37.919 for high achievement at the time. Very rigorous. 00:03:38.039 --> 00:03:40.300 He went from the Cathedral and John Conant School 00:03:40.300 --> 00:03:42.900 in Bombay to the very structured environment 00:03:42.900 --> 00:03:45.039 of Rugby School in England, and then eventually 00:03:45.039 --> 00:03:48.120 graduated from King's College, Cambridge in 1968 00:03:48.120 --> 00:03:51.039 with a degree in history. But what really seems 00:03:51.039 --> 00:03:53.259 to define his early mind are these unexpected, 00:03:53.560 --> 00:03:56.300 almost contradictory literary influences he was 00:03:56.300 --> 00:03:59.139 absorbing. The influences are, as you say, wonderfully 00:03:59.139 --> 00:04:01.819 eclectic. Yeah. They really suggest that blend 00:04:01.819 --> 00:04:05.699 of high fantasy and grounded, complex narrative 00:04:05.699 --> 00:04:08.439 that would become his signature style. And he 00:04:08.439 --> 00:04:11.099 credits one specific book as foundational. He 00:04:11.099 --> 00:04:13.979 does. The Wizard of Oz. He claims it was the 00:04:13.979 --> 00:04:17.160 book that made a writer of me. An American fantasy 00:04:17.160 --> 00:04:20.079 shaping the voice of a future British Indian 00:04:20.079 --> 00:04:23.079 novelist. That's amazing. It is. And then he 00:04:23.079 --> 00:04:25.680 also soaked up the British literary tradition, 00:04:25.920 --> 00:04:28.459 P .G. Woodhouse, Agatha Christie. And he had 00:04:28.459 --> 00:04:31.240 a deep, deep affection for Lewis Carroll. He 00:04:31.240 --> 00:04:33.740 said he can still recite the whole of Jabberwocky 00:04:33.740 --> 00:04:36.319 from memory. Which speaks volumes about a love 00:04:36.319 --> 00:04:39.259 for language play, for nonsense, for irreverence. 00:04:39.339 --> 00:04:40.920 And then there's the high fantasy element. Oh, 00:04:40.939 --> 00:04:43.699 it's huge. J .R .R. Tolkien. He became obsessed 00:04:43.699 --> 00:04:46.240 with The Lord of the Rings when he was 16. Apparently, 00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:47.939 he could recite the inscription on the ruling 00:04:47.939 --> 00:04:51.240 ring in the dark language of Mordor. So his mind 00:04:51.240 --> 00:04:53.399 just naturally gravitated towards creating these 00:04:53.399 --> 00:04:56.259 complex, internally consistent other worlds. 00:04:56.480 --> 00:04:59.379 Exactly. And then there's this incredible cultural 00:04:59.379 --> 00:05:01.939 detail he shares about his family, about how 00:05:01.939 --> 00:05:04.300 they treated books. It just, it perfectly illustrates 00:05:04.300 --> 00:05:07.199 his cultural hybridity and the deep reverence 00:05:07.199 --> 00:05:09.079 for the written word that was instilled in him. 00:05:09.220 --> 00:05:11.800 Tell us about that. Well, he recalls the traditional 00:05:11.800 --> 00:05:14.870 Indian custom of kissing holy books. the Quran 00:05:14.870 --> 00:05:17.310 if they were dropped as a sign of respect. Right. 00:05:17.509 --> 00:05:20.709 But in the Rushdie household, that deep, almost 00:05:20.709 --> 00:05:24.550 sacred respect was applied universally, secularly. 00:05:24.990 --> 00:05:27.730 They would kiss dictionaries if they fell, atlases, 00:05:27.889 --> 00:05:31.129 Enid Blyton novels. Even comics. Even Superman 00:05:31.129 --> 00:05:32.569 comics. If they fell to the floor, you picked 00:05:32.569 --> 00:05:34.910 them up and you kissed them. It speaks to a deep, 00:05:34.949 --> 00:05:37.490 generalized reverence for the written word, regardless 00:05:37.490 --> 00:05:40.680 of its spiritual or cultural weight. It sort 00:05:40.680 --> 00:05:43.220 of places the writer on par with the divine messenger. 00:05:43.379 --> 00:05:46.120 It's a perfect anecdote. Now, before any of the 00:05:46.120 --> 00:05:48.240 literary awards and certainly before any of the 00:05:48.240 --> 00:05:50.480 death threats, he had a truly surprising and 00:05:50.480 --> 00:05:52.939 very successful professional detour. He was a 00:05:52.939 --> 00:05:55.699 copywriter. An ad man. And a very good one. For 00:05:55.699 --> 00:05:59.540 major firms like Ogilvy and Mather and Airbarker, 00:05:59.560 --> 00:06:02.689 right up until 1982. This is one of those details 00:06:02.689 --> 00:06:05.129 that just provides genuine insight into his skill 00:06:05.129 --> 00:06:07.670 as a wordsmith, isn't it? I mean, to be an effective 00:06:07.670 --> 00:06:10.449 copywriter, you have to distill a huge concept 00:06:10.449 --> 00:06:14.350 into a tiny memorable phrase. He's the undisputed 00:06:14.350 --> 00:06:17.290 genius behind the word irresista bubble for the 00:06:17.290 --> 00:06:20.790 Aero chocolate bar. No way. Yes. And he coined 00:06:20.790 --> 00:06:23.829 the incredibly famous and sticky phrase, naughty 00:06:23.829 --> 00:06:27.050 but nice for cream cakes. He wrote that. He did. 00:06:27.149 --> 00:06:30.319 And maybe the most enduring of all. The line 00:06:30.319 --> 00:06:32.319 that is still synonymous with a global financial 00:06:32.319 --> 00:06:35.399 brand for American Express, he coined, that'll 00:06:35.399 --> 00:06:37.750 do nicely. That is incredible. That ability to 00:06:37.750 --> 00:06:40.189 capture a global brand in three simple words. 00:06:40.269 --> 00:06:42.550 It shows a mastery of language that's completely 00:06:42.550 --> 00:06:45.709 different from but also complementary to the 00:06:45.709 --> 00:06:48.470 sprawling prose of his novels. And the most fascinating 00:06:48.470 --> 00:06:50.910 part is that he wrote Midnight's Children while 00:06:50.910 --> 00:06:52.990 he was still working at Ogilvy. So these two 00:06:52.990 --> 00:06:55.250 things were happening at the same time. The concise, 00:06:55.329 --> 00:06:58.110 persuasive language of commerce and the sprawling, 00:06:58.110 --> 00:07:00.730 complex language of literature. Simultaneously. 00:07:01.230 --> 00:07:03.589 It wasn't until Midnight's Children had its massive 00:07:03.589 --> 00:07:05.670 breakthrough that he was able to become a full 00:07:05.670 --> 00:07:07.689 -time writer. And what a breakthrough it was. 00:07:08.029 --> 00:07:10.949 His work is primarily categorized as postmodern, 00:07:11.089 --> 00:07:14.050 right? Relying heavily on magical realism. Yes, 00:07:14.050 --> 00:07:16.269 that crucial blending of fantasy and reality, 00:07:16.490 --> 00:07:18.889 which he uses to explore postcolonial themes, 00:07:19.069 --> 00:07:22.149 migration, and the intricate, often disruptive 00:07:22.149 --> 00:07:25.110 connections between East and West, always rooted 00:07:25.110 --> 00:07:27.639 in the Indian subcontinent. Let's talk about 00:07:27.639 --> 00:07:30.480 that magical realism for a second. In his hands, 00:07:30.579 --> 00:07:33.959 it isn't just. It's not just whimsy. It's a political 00:07:33.959 --> 00:07:36.819 tool. Absolutely. Midnight's Children, published 00:07:36.819 --> 00:07:39.360 in 1981, really established this technique. The 00:07:39.360 --> 00:07:42.579 novel follows Salim Sinai, the narrator, who 00:07:42.579 --> 00:07:44.540 was born precisely at the stroke of midnight 00:07:44.540 --> 00:07:47.180 when India gains independence. And because of 00:07:47.180 --> 00:07:49.560 this, Salim, along with the other thousand children 00:07:49.560 --> 00:07:51.860 born in that first hour, develops supernatural 00:07:51.860 --> 00:07:54.120 powers. Which are literally linked to the fate 00:07:54.120 --> 00:07:56.870 of the new nation. The magic and the realism 00:07:56.870 --> 00:07:59.589 is the necessary mechanism to handle the overwhelming, 00:07:59.930 --> 00:08:03.350 chaotic, and often violent reality of post -colonial 00:08:03.350 --> 00:08:05.670 nation -building. So by giving the midnight children 00:08:05.670 --> 00:08:08.470 these supernatural gifts like telepathy or the 00:08:08.470 --> 00:08:11.410 ability to shrink or transform, he's creating 00:08:11.410 --> 00:08:14.089 a powerful metaphor. A metaphor for the dashed 00:08:14.089 --> 00:08:16.930 hopes, the fragmented identities, the immense 00:08:16.930 --> 00:08:20.000 unruly energy of a young nation. It's no wonder 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:22.060 it won the Booker Prize that year. And then it 00:08:22.060 --> 00:08:23.480 went on to win the Best of the Bookers Prize 00:08:23.480 --> 00:08:26.540 twice on the 25th and 40th anniversaries of the 00:08:26.540 --> 00:08:28.899 award. It's just cemented its status as a defining 00:08:28.899 --> 00:08:32.100 literary work. It has. And he's spoken about 00:08:32.100 --> 00:08:34.600 its complex lineage. He mentions the influence 00:08:34.600 --> 00:08:37.460 of India's oral narrative traditions, but also 00:08:37.460 --> 00:08:39.720 the more formal structures of the English novel. 00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:42.120 Specifically Jane Austen and Charles Dickens. 00:08:42.179 --> 00:08:44.710 Right. Austin for her keen portraits of brilliant 00:08:44.710 --> 00:08:47.509 women caged by social convention, and Dickens 00:08:47.509 --> 00:08:50.750 for his descriptions of a rotting, Bombay -like 00:08:50.750 --> 00:08:53.610 city teeming with life and injustice. It just 00:08:53.610 --> 00:08:56.169 reinforces the cosmopolitan, synthetic nature 00:08:56.169 --> 00:08:59.210 of his imagination. He's meshing these nested 00:08:59.210 --> 00:09:01.269 oral stories with the keen social observation 00:09:01.269 --> 00:09:04.509 of the 19th century English novel. And his subsequent 00:09:04.509 --> 00:09:07.649 works immediately cemented that reputation. Shame, 00:09:07.769 --> 00:09:10.669 in 1983, tackled the political turmoil in Pakistan 00:09:10.669 --> 00:09:12.990 with characters who were thinly veiled versions 00:09:12.990 --> 00:09:15.789 of Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto and General Zeal Haque. 00:09:16.090 --> 00:09:18.350 And he wasn't just focused on South Asia. In 00:09:18.350 --> 00:09:21.649 1987, he wrote a nonfiction travelogue, The Jaguar 00:09:21.649 --> 00:09:24.610 Smile, about his experiences in Sandinista Nicaragua. 00:09:24.950 --> 00:09:27.370 So by the late 1980s, he's an established literary 00:09:27.370 --> 00:09:31.070 force, a global intellectual, deeply engaged 00:09:31.070 --> 00:09:33.809 with political movements. He was critically still 00:09:33.809 --> 00:09:36.110 largely celebrated. Until the publication of 00:09:36.110 --> 00:09:38.750 his next novel. Yes. The success that flowed 00:09:38.750 --> 00:09:41.269 from his literary mastery, his hybridity, his 00:09:41.269 --> 00:09:43.870 irreverence, would suddenly be turned into the 00:09:43.870 --> 00:09:46.799 very weapons used against him. And that brings 00:09:46.799 --> 00:09:49.899 us to 1988 and the publication that irrevocably 00:09:49.899 --> 00:09:52.799 changed not just his life, but the global conversation 00:09:52.799 --> 00:09:54.980 around the limits of free speech. The Satanic 00:09:54.980 --> 00:09:57.700 Verses. Published in September 1988. And it was 00:09:57.700 --> 00:09:59.879 immediately recognized for its literary merit. 00:10:00.220 --> 00:10:02.500 It won the prestigious Whitbread Award. But the 00:10:02.500 --> 00:10:05.019 focus, as we all know, shifted very quickly from 00:10:05.019 --> 00:10:07.320 its literary quality to its perceived content. 00:10:07.519 --> 00:10:10.419 The core controversy revolved around what a significant 00:10:10.419 --> 00:10:13.279 and soon to be very radicalized segment of the 00:10:13.279 --> 00:10:16.340 global Muslim population saw as an irreverent 00:10:16.340 --> 00:10:18.480 and blasphemous depiction of the Prophet Muhammad. 00:10:18.820 --> 00:10:21.059 And he's referred to in the book as Mahound. 00:10:21.259 --> 00:10:23.759 Right. And we need to unpack the specifics of 00:10:23.759 --> 00:10:25.659 the theological offense here because it's crucial 00:10:25.659 --> 00:10:28.639 to understanding what happened next. First, that 00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:33.200 name. It's deliberately provocative. Yeah. It's 00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:35.500 a derogatory medieval Christian term for the 00:10:35.500 --> 00:10:37.620 prophet, often associated with the Crusades. 00:10:37.620 --> 00:10:40.299 So its use in the novel immediately signaled 00:10:40.299 --> 00:10:43.440 disrespect to many readers. And the title itself, 00:10:43.740 --> 00:10:46.840 The Satanic Verses, that refers to a deeply contentious 00:10:46.840 --> 00:10:49.159 tradition within early Islamic history, doesn't 00:10:49.159 --> 00:10:52.039 it? Precisely. The core dispute is around this 00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:55.240 idea of the satanic forces. The tradition suggests 00:10:55.240 --> 00:10:57.419 that the Prophet Muhammad initially received 00:10:57.419 --> 00:10:59.679 verses, which he later claims were inspired by 00:10:59.679 --> 00:11:02.259 Satan and revoked, that accepted the intercession 00:11:02.259 --> 00:11:05.600 of three pre -Islamic pagan goddesses. To appease 00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:07.899 the powerful Meccan merchants. Exactly. To sort 00:11:07.899 --> 00:11:10.659 of smooth the path for his new faith. The Orthodox 00:11:10.659 --> 00:11:12.919 theological consensus today is that this event 00:11:12.919 --> 00:11:15.600 either didn't happen or that the story is fundamentally 00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:18.220 flawed. But the novel doesn't just reference 00:11:18.220 --> 00:11:21.009 this historical dispute. It uses a narrative 00:11:21.009 --> 00:11:23.289 device that really radicalized the perception 00:11:23.289 --> 00:11:25.610 of the offense. That is the critical distinction. 00:11:26.169 --> 00:11:29.049 In the novel, the disputed verses are presented 00:11:29.049 --> 00:11:31.789 as originating not from human mistake or satanic 00:11:31.789 --> 00:11:34.850 deception, but from the archangel Gabriel himself. 00:11:34.990 --> 00:11:38.090 Who is supposed to be delivering the infallible, 00:11:38.210 --> 00:11:41.860 uncorrupted word of God. So by implying divine 00:11:41.860 --> 00:11:44.960 origin for something later deemed false, Rushdie's 00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:47.559 narrative choice was taken by many to directly 00:11:47.559 --> 00:11:51.419 challenge the textual integrity and, most fundamentally, 00:11:51.679 --> 00:11:54.059 the divine origin of the Quran's revelation. 00:11:54.480 --> 00:11:56.580 The immediate reaction, even before the fatwa, 00:11:56.720 --> 00:11:59.659 was decisive. Massively so. The book was banned 00:11:59.659 --> 00:12:02.139 in 20 countries with large Muslim populations. 00:12:02.259 --> 00:12:05.600 India, Iran, Pakistan, South Africa. This was 00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:07.840 a global political censorship campaign targeting 00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:10.289 a work of literature. But the true firestorm, 00:12:10.370 --> 00:12:12.330 the event that turned this literary controversy 00:12:12.330 --> 00:12:15.529 into an existential security crisis that ignited 00:12:15.529 --> 00:12:18.690 on a very specific date. February 14th, 1989, 00:12:19.169 --> 00:12:21.769 Valentine's Day. A day he received the world's 00:12:21.769 --> 00:12:23.990 most infamous public death threat. On that day, 00:12:24.029 --> 00:12:26.389 Ayatollah Ruwa Khomeini, the supreme leader of 00:12:26.389 --> 00:12:29.509 Iran, issued a fatwa, a legal edict, calling 00:12:29.509 --> 00:12:31.830 for Rushdie's immediate execution for blasphemy. 00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:34.159 And this was, I mean, this was an unprecedented 00:12:34.159 --> 00:12:37.659 act. A state leader issuing a death warrant against 00:12:37.659 --> 00:12:40.360 a civilian writer in a foreign country. And it 00:12:40.360 --> 00:12:42.779 happened even though, and this was confirmed 00:12:42.779 --> 00:12:45.120 later by his own son Khomeini himself, had never 00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:47.279 actually read the book. He never read it. Never. 00:12:47.320 --> 00:12:50.799 The outrage was based on reports, summaries, 00:12:50.799 --> 00:12:53.440 and perceived political threat, not literary 00:12:53.440 --> 00:12:56.639 analysis. This fundamentally changes the nature 00:12:56.639 --> 00:13:00.230 of the critique from theological To purely political. 00:13:00.409 --> 00:13:02.409 Which brings us back to the content. There's 00:13:02.409 --> 00:13:05.409 a specific chapter, chapter four, which depicts 00:13:05.409 --> 00:13:08.690 an imam in exile. Yes, an imam who returns to 00:13:08.690 --> 00:13:11.269 his country to incite a violent revolt, demanding 00:13:11.269 --> 00:13:14.110 adherence to a rigid purity, regardless of the 00:13:14.110 --> 00:13:16.230 consequences for his people. And this was immediately 00:13:16.230 --> 00:13:19.169 seen as a deliberate, contemptuous mirroring 00:13:19.169 --> 00:13:22.230 of Khomeini's own history. His own exile in Paris 00:13:22.230 --> 00:13:24.110 before returning to lead the Iranian revolution. 00:13:24.450 --> 00:13:26.590 So the book wasn't just blasphemous in this view. 00:13:26.649 --> 00:13:28.830 It was... politically subversive and personally 00:13:28.830 --> 00:13:31.230 insulting to the Supreme Leader. A bounty was 00:13:31.230 --> 00:13:33.789 immediately offered for his death, forcing him 00:13:33.789 --> 00:13:36.049 instantly into a life of secretive high level 00:13:36.049 --> 00:13:39.169 police protection that lasted for years. The 00:13:39.169 --> 00:13:42.009 diplomatic fallout was swift and enormous. The 00:13:42.009 --> 00:13:44.409 United Kingdom and Iran severed all diplomatic 00:13:44.409 --> 00:13:48.529 relations on March 7th, 1989, just weeks after 00:13:48.529 --> 00:13:50.899 the fatwa was issued. The geopolitical stakes 00:13:50.899 --> 00:13:53.799 suddenly elevated a work of fiction into a massive 00:13:53.799 --> 00:13:56.139 international diplomatic and security crisis. 00:13:56.440 --> 00:13:58.799 It really challenged the core liberal assumption 00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:01.659 that literature, even controversial literature, 00:14:01.940 --> 00:14:04.299 stays in the wrong of ideas. This showed that 00:14:04.299 --> 00:14:06.559 for some, ideas carried the weight of existential 00:14:06.559 --> 00:14:09.320 violence. And yet, despite that immediate existential 00:14:09.320 --> 00:14:12.919 danger, Rushdie used his platform not to apologize, 00:14:13.019 --> 00:14:15.799 but to redouble his defense of the very ideas 00:14:15.799 --> 00:14:18.600 the book represented. His immediate public response 00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:21.460 was famously defiant. In a column in The Observer 00:14:21.460 --> 00:14:25.220 in January 1989, before the fatwa, he tried to 00:14:25.220 --> 00:14:27.120 frame the book's intent, calling Muhammad one 00:14:27.120 --> 00:14:29.399 of the great geniuses of world history, but saying 00:14:29.399 --> 00:14:31.759 the novel was really about migration and hybridity. 00:14:31.860 --> 00:14:34.600 But his response after the fatwa? That was pure 00:14:34.600 --> 00:14:38.600 defiance. Pure high -stakes defiance. When he 00:14:38.600 --> 00:14:41.759 was asked directly on BBC Radio 4 about the death 00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:43.899 threat, he threw down the gauntlet. He said, 00:14:44.019 --> 00:14:45.960 frankly, I wish I had written a more critical 00:14:45.960 --> 00:14:48.940 book. That one sentence set the tone for his 00:14:48.940 --> 00:14:52.200 entire 30 -year defense. It's intellectual courage 00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:55.379 over personal safety. It is. He said he was sad 00:14:55.379 --> 00:14:58.700 that Khomeini and others hadn't read it. But 00:14:58.700 --> 00:15:01.519 later in his memoir, he wrote that he was proud 00:15:01.519 --> 00:15:05.039 then and always of that statement. He believed 00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:07.500 a religion whose leaders behave that way. could 00:15:07.500 --> 00:15:09.559 probably use a little criticism he chose intellectual 00:15:09.559 --> 00:15:12.220 freedom over tactical submission and he accepted 00:15:12.220 --> 00:15:14.480 the consequences that followed so the crisis 00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:16.620 of the fatwa it didn't just stay between tehran 00:15:16.620 --> 00:15:18.970 and london it immediately kicked off this this 00:15:18.970 --> 00:15:21.590 global war over words. It did, and it brought 00:15:21.590 --> 00:15:24.049 a simultaneous outpouring of literary solidarity 00:15:24.049 --> 00:15:27.710 and horrific real -world violence targeting anyone 00:15:27.710 --> 00:15:29.830 associated with the book. The literary world 00:15:29.830 --> 00:15:31.929 seemed to recognize immediately that this wasn't 00:15:31.929 --> 00:15:34.250 just about one controversial novel. No, they 00:15:34.250 --> 00:15:37.230 saw it as a direct assault on Enlightenment values, 00:15:37.570 --> 00:15:41.389 on free expression, on the First Amendment. Christopher 00:15:41.389 --> 00:15:43.730 Hitchens, who became a crucial ally and a close 00:15:43.730 --> 00:15:46.690 friend of his, he defined the stakes in the clearest 00:15:46.690 --> 00:15:49.129 possible terms. What did he say? He said this 00:15:49.129 --> 00:15:52.730 was everything I hated. Dictatorship, religion, 00:15:53.090 --> 00:15:56.190 censorship versus everything I loved. Literature, 00:15:56.190 --> 00:15:59.009 irony, defense of free expression. That's such 00:15:59.009 --> 00:16:01.269 a potent framework for understanding the conflict. 00:16:01.549 --> 00:16:03.850 And we saw other literary giants weighing in, 00:16:03.909 --> 00:16:06.330 too. And Berto Eco offered that quintessential 00:16:06.330 --> 00:16:09.169 writer's perspective with that dark humor saying, 00:16:09.230 --> 00:16:11.289 keep to your convictions. Try to protect yourself. 00:16:11.610 --> 00:16:13.980 A death sentence is a rather harsh review. A 00:16:13.980 --> 00:16:16.279 harsh review. And critically, this wasn't just 00:16:16.279 --> 00:16:18.639 a Western defense, was it? We saw solidarity 00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:21.460 coming from within the broader Muslim intellectual 00:16:21.460 --> 00:16:24.220 community. Yes. And that's so important. Maghrib 00:16:24.220 --> 00:16:27.179 Mahfouz, the Egyptian Nobel laureate, he said 00:16:27.179 --> 00:16:29.500 the terrorism Rushdie faced was unjustifiable, 00:16:29.679 --> 00:16:32.340 indefensible. And he added the profound observation 00:16:32.340 --> 00:16:35.480 that one idea can only be opposed by other ideas. 00:16:35.779 --> 00:16:38.440 He was arguing for debate, not violence. And 00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:40.860 this intellectual defense, it actually materialized 00:16:40.860 --> 00:16:44.759 formally. It did. In 1993, a hundred Muslim and 00:16:44.759 --> 00:16:47.379 Arab intellectuals published a collection called 00:16:47.379 --> 00:16:50.860 Farashti, expressing solidarity, condemning the 00:16:50.860 --> 00:16:53.659 fatwa as intolerable and having nothing to do 00:16:53.659 --> 00:16:56.360 with the tolerant Islam they were taught. They 00:16:56.360 --> 00:16:58.659 saw the danger that religious fanaticism posed 00:16:58.659 --> 00:17:01.220 to creative freedom globally, regardless of the 00:17:01.220 --> 00:17:04.109 target. But this defense of the word, it came 00:17:04.109 --> 00:17:06.730 at a terrible price. The decade that followed 00:17:06.730 --> 00:17:10.250 saw widespread riots, protests, firebombings 00:17:10.250 --> 00:17:12.740 of bookstores all over the world. particularly 00:17:12.740 --> 00:17:15.960 those stalking the satanic verses. And most tragically, 00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:19.119 the violence escalated to target those who facilitated 00:17:19.119 --> 00:17:21.160 the book's publication. This is the grim reality 00:17:21.160 --> 00:17:23.900 of the human cost. We need to detail the scale 00:17:23.900 --> 00:17:26.299 of this targeted violence because it was designed 00:17:26.299 --> 00:17:28.480 to terrify the entire chain of publishers. And 00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:31.019 it was devastatingly effective. In 1991, the 00:17:31.019 --> 00:17:33.599 Japanese translator, Hitoshi Igarashi, was stabbed 00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:36.059 to death at Tsukuba University. Just for translating 00:17:36.059 --> 00:17:37.660 the book? Just for translating it. The Italian 00:17:37.660 --> 00:17:39.960 translator, Ettore Capriola, was also stabbed, 00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:43.509 but thankfully he survived. Then in 1993, the 00:17:43.509 --> 00:17:45.630 Norwegian publisher, William Nygaard, was shot 00:17:45.630 --> 00:17:47.970 three times outside his home in Oslo. He survived, 00:17:48.089 --> 00:17:51.009 but only just. Only through immense medical effort. 00:17:51.190 --> 00:17:54.309 The message was crystal clear. Simply being associated 00:17:54.309 --> 00:17:56.869 with Rushdie's work was a life -threatening choice. 00:17:57.109 --> 00:17:59.009 And even before these attacks on his associates, 00:17:59.109 --> 00:18:01.630 there was a shocking failed attempt to kill Rushdie 00:18:01.630 --> 00:18:04.930 directly in London. Yes, on August 3rd, 1989, 00:18:05.230 --> 00:18:09.119 less than six months after the fatwa. A man using 00:18:09.119 --> 00:18:12.359 the alias Mustafa Mobudmazza was priming a powerful 00:18:12.359 --> 00:18:15.619 book bomb loaded with RDX explosives in a Paddington 00:18:15.619 --> 00:18:18.319 hotel. And the bomb went off prematurely? It 00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:21.319 did. It detonated, killing Mazza instantly and 00:18:21.319 --> 00:18:23.579 destroying two floors of the hotel. And this 00:18:23.579 --> 00:18:26.099 man, he's not just a failed terrorist. He is 00:18:26.099 --> 00:18:28.420 tragically recognized by hardliners as the first 00:18:28.420 --> 00:18:31.410 martyr to die on a mission to kill Rushdie. He 00:18:31.410 --> 00:18:34.029 has a prominent shrine in Tehran's largest cemetery. 00:18:34.210 --> 00:18:36.630 It just underscores how deeply this mission was 00:18:36.630 --> 00:18:38.930 integrated into the hardline political religious 00:18:38.930 --> 00:18:41.630 apparatus. It does. And the cultural reaction 00:18:41.630 --> 00:18:44.470 wasn't just violence. It also included some bizarre, 00:18:44.589 --> 00:18:47.829 almost surreal propaganda. Like the 1990 Pakistani 00:18:47.829 --> 00:18:50.519 film International Gorillas. Which is a surreal 00:18:50.519 --> 00:18:52.859 reflection of how he is being publicly demonized. 00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:55.940 The film depicts Rushdie as this James Bond -style 00:18:55.940 --> 00:18:58.660 villain plotting Pakistan's downfall through 00:18:58.660 --> 00:19:01.519 casinos and discos before being killed by four 00:19:01.519 --> 00:19:04.119 righteous Pakistani guerrillas. And what's truly 00:19:04.119 --> 00:19:06.880 insightful is Rushdie's incredibly savvy reaction 00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:09.680 to the film possibly being banned in the UK. 00:19:09.980 --> 00:19:12.420 He actually wrote to the British Board of Film 00:19:12.420 --> 00:19:14.720 Classification and told them not to ban what 00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:17.880 he called this trash film. Why? He argued that 00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:20.980 censoring it would only grant it notoriety, validating 00:19:20.980 --> 00:19:23.319 its message and turning it into a hotter underground 00:19:23.319 --> 00:19:26.279 hit. That reveals his core philosophy, doesn't 00:19:26.279 --> 00:19:28.660 it? Censorship, even of bad ideas, just gives 00:19:28.660 --> 00:19:32.000 power and myth to the censors. Exactly. He understood 00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:34.160 that the best way to deal with bad ideas is not 00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:36.799 to silence them, but to expose them to the light 00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:39.470 of criticism and ridicule. During this decade, 00:19:39.710 --> 00:19:41.789 Rushie lived largely underground under constant 00:19:41.789 --> 00:19:44.809 protection. He adopted the secret alias Joseph 00:19:44.809 --> 00:19:47.690 Anton. A name composed of the first names of 00:19:47.690 --> 00:19:49.849 two of his favorite writers, Joseph Conrad and 00:19:49.849 --> 00:19:52.809 Anton Chekhov. It later became the title of his 00:19:52.809 --> 00:19:55.630 2012 memoir about those years. The psychological 00:19:55.630 --> 00:19:58.230 toll of that must have been immense. Not being 00:19:58.230 --> 00:20:00.130 able to tell friends where you live, your kids 00:20:00.130 --> 00:20:02.210 having to learn protocols, constantly moving. 00:20:02.349 --> 00:20:05.390 And yet, despite the extreme security, he managed 00:20:05.390 --> 00:20:08.519 these bursts of defiant public visibility. He 00:20:08.519 --> 00:20:10.720 was deliberately undermining the idea that the 00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:13.119 fatwa had imprisoned him completely. And that 00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:16.160 appearance in 1993 at the U2 concert at Wembley 00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:19.460 Stadium is just fantastic. A monumental moment 00:20:19.460 --> 00:20:23.119 of defiance. U2 singer Bono had been making a 00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:25.859 ritual of calling Rushdie from the stage every 00:20:25.859 --> 00:20:28.559 night on that tour, this symbolic gesture of 00:20:28.559 --> 00:20:31.059 solidarity. And then one night, he actually showed 00:20:31.059 --> 00:20:33.400 up. He showed up, and the stadium reportedly 00:20:33.400 --> 00:20:36.750 erupted with spontaneous support. The source 00:20:36.750 --> 00:20:38.849 has confirmed that he frequently used a backstage 00:20:38.849 --> 00:20:41.609 pass to attend concerts, proving that even a 00:20:41.609 --> 00:20:44.430 man supposedly in absolute hiding was determined 00:20:44.430 --> 00:20:47.410 to experience life and art in freedom. Though 00:20:47.410 --> 00:20:49.670 his life in hiding was still fought with challenges, 00:20:49.990 --> 00:20:52.529 he even had legal trouble with a former bodyguard 00:20:52.529 --> 00:20:54.829 who published a book claiming he tried to profit 00:20:54.829 --> 00:20:57.710 from the fatwa and was suicidal. Right, which 00:20:57.710 --> 00:21:00.069 highlights the psychological warfare of his situation. 00:21:00.730 --> 00:21:03.410 Rushdie dismissed the claims as a bunch of lies 00:21:03.410 --> 00:21:06.710 and successfully sued the publisher. He was fighting 00:21:06.710 --> 00:21:09.470 both the external death threats and these internal 00:21:09.470 --> 00:21:12.130 narrative attempts to dehumanize him. As the 00:21:12.130 --> 00:21:15.589 90s wore on, the fatwa remained this unresolved 00:21:15.589 --> 00:21:19.430 global problem. Then in 1998, there was a tentative 00:21:19.430 --> 00:21:21.710 breakthrough under Iran's more moderate president 00:21:21.710 --> 00:21:24.349 at the time, Mohammad Khatami. It was a diplomatic 00:21:24.349 --> 00:21:27.759 breakthrough, not a spiritual one. As a precondition 00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:30.640 for restoring diplomatic ties with the UK, the 00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:32.740 Iranian government committed to neither support 00:21:32.740 --> 00:21:36.099 nor hinder assassination operations against Rusty. 00:21:36.140 --> 00:21:38.619 But this commitment, it proved to be purely cosmetic, 00:21:38.779 --> 00:21:41.160 didn't it, in terms of ending the actual threat? 00:21:41.420 --> 00:21:42.880 Absolutely. It was a governmental diplomatic 00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:46.150 gesture to restore trade. But crucially, the 00:21:46.150 --> 00:21:49.009 hardliners, including Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, 00:21:49.069 --> 00:21:51.549 who later became the Supreme Leader and the Revolutionary 00:21:51.549 --> 00:21:54.569 Guards, they repeatedly and publicly reaffirmed 00:21:54.569 --> 00:21:56.390 that the death sentence was religiously binding 00:21:56.390 --> 00:21:58.630 and could not be revoked by the government. And 00:21:58.630 --> 00:22:00.950 they kept increasing the bounty. Consistently. 00:22:01.150 --> 00:22:04.890 It reached $3 .3 million by 2012, and it grew 00:22:04.890 --> 00:22:08.289 again in 2016. The threat remained privatized 00:22:08.289 --> 00:22:10.390 and decentralized among hardline organizations, 00:22:10.809 --> 00:22:13.029 even if the government pretended to step back. 00:22:13.150 --> 00:22:15.369 Which led to that dark humor he developed to 00:22:15.369 --> 00:22:18.390 cope. He reported receiving a yearly reminder 00:22:18.390 --> 00:22:21.890 of the vow to kill him every February 14th, his 00:22:21.890 --> 00:22:25.130 unfunny Valentine. He eventually came to treat 00:22:25.130 --> 00:22:27.849 the threat as rhetoric. rather than a real threat, 00:22:27.990 --> 00:22:29.990 a dangerous but understandable psychological 00:22:29.990 --> 00:22:32.710 defense mechanism. But that distinction between 00:22:32.710 --> 00:22:35.910 rhetoric and reality is key, as this sustained 00:22:35.910 --> 00:22:38.170 threat forced you to become much more than just 00:22:38.170 --> 00:22:40.529 a novelist. Right. The sustained threat forced 00:22:40.529 --> 00:22:42.829 Rushdie to evolve, didn't it? He became one of 00:22:42.829 --> 00:22:44.990 the world's most articulate and uncompromising 00:22:44.990 --> 00:22:47.109 defenders of secularism and free expression. 00:22:47.390 --> 00:22:49.589 His own experience became the lens through which 00:22:49.589 --> 00:22:52.049 he analyzed the global rise of religious extremism 00:22:52.049 --> 00:22:54.750 and authoritarianism. And to understand his philosophy, 00:22:54.890 --> 00:22:56.890 we have to clarify his personal religious stance. 00:22:57.109 --> 00:22:58.990 It's often distorted by his opponents. It is. 00:22:59.029 --> 00:23:01.150 While he comes from that liberal Kashmiri Muslim 00:23:01.150 --> 00:23:03.809 family, he has been extremely clear about his 00:23:03.809 --> 00:23:06.569 personal beliefs. He identifies unambiguously 00:23:06.569 --> 00:23:10.289 as a hardline. an atheist, a secular human being 00:23:10.289 --> 00:23:12.269 who doesn't believe in supernatural entities 00:23:12.269 --> 00:23:14.609 of any kind. Which is why his intellectual work 00:23:14.609 --> 00:23:16.829 has focused so heavily on scrutinizing the role 00:23:16.829 --> 00:23:19.950 of religion in society using historical and critical 00:23:19.950 --> 00:23:22.410 methods. This foundation led to his powerful 00:23:22.410 --> 00:23:25.509 advocacy for a profound internal change within 00:23:25.509 --> 00:23:28.970 Islam itself. In 2005, he published an op -ed 00:23:28.970 --> 00:23:31.470 in The Washington Post and The Times calling 00:23:31.470 --> 00:23:35.170 for a Muslim reformation. That is a loaded term. 00:23:35.349 --> 00:23:37.730 He's deliberately invoking that historical period 00:23:37.730 --> 00:23:40.650 in Europe when thinkers began to challenge the 00:23:40.650 --> 00:23:43.029 absolute authority of the church. So it was a 00:23:43.029 --> 00:23:45.009 deliberate call to action. Yes, urging Muslims 00:23:45.009 --> 00:23:47.470 to move beyond unexamined tradition and combat, 00:23:47.650 --> 00:23:51.410 not just jihadist ideologues, but also the dusty, 00:23:51.529 --> 00:23:54.210 stifling seminaries of the traditionalists. His 00:23:54.210 --> 00:23:56.289 core argument, stemming from his history background, 00:23:56.589 --> 00:23:58.829 was that Muslims must be able to study the revelation 00:23:58.829 --> 00:24:01.490 of their religion as an event inside history. 00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:04.039 not supernaturally above it. So he's arguing 00:24:04.039 --> 00:24:06.579 for higher criticism. How does he connect this 00:24:06.579 --> 00:24:09.019 to the broader concept of freedom? He argues 00:24:09.019 --> 00:24:11.200 that the moment you treat foundational texts 00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:14.339 like the Quran or a nation's founding documents 00:24:14.339 --> 00:24:17.640 as static sacred objects outside of human history, 00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:20.619 you stop thinking new thoughts. Right. He believes 00:24:20.619 --> 00:24:23.339 societies must constantly question and revise 00:24:23.339 --> 00:24:26.930 their grand narratives. nation, family, religion 00:24:26.930 --> 00:24:30.190 to avoid stagnation. The argument itself, the 00:24:30.190 --> 00:24:32.670 ability to question without fear of violent retribution, 00:24:32.890 --> 00:24:35.829 is freedom. This stance made him an immediate 00:24:35.829 --> 00:24:38.109 and necessary champion of satire, especially 00:24:38.109 --> 00:24:40.670 after the tragic Charlie Hebdo shooting in Paris 00:24:40.670 --> 00:24:43.829 in 2015. He condemned the shooting unequivocally. 00:24:43.829 --> 00:24:45.910 He emphasized that he stood with the magazine 00:24:45.910 --> 00:24:48.849 to defend satire against tyranny, dishonesty, 00:24:48.849 --> 00:24:51.480 and stupidity. He knew the attack was designed 00:24:51.480 --> 00:24:53.960 not just to kill, but to intimidate and enforce 00:24:53.960 --> 00:24:56.180 silence, which he saw as the ultimate defeat. 00:24:56.440 --> 00:24:59.140 And he offered that very provocative view. Religion, 00:24:59.380 --> 00:25:01.859 a medieval form of unreason, when combined with 00:25:01.859 --> 00:25:03.940 modern weaponry, becomes a real threat to our 00:25:03.940 --> 00:25:06.259 freedoms. Which led to his famous assertion about 00:25:06.259 --> 00:25:08.940 the false idol of respect. He argued that respect 00:25:08.940 --> 00:25:11.819 for religion has become code for fear of religion. 00:25:12.039 --> 00:25:13.880 And that religions deserve the same scrutiny 00:25:13.880 --> 00:25:16.910 as any other idea. Exactly. They deserve criticism, 00:25:17.190 --> 00:25:20.710 satire, and, yes, our fearless disrespect. And 00:25:20.710 --> 00:25:22.730 this isn't just rhetoric for him. He's a founding 00:25:22.730 --> 00:25:25.769 patron of Ralston College, whose motto is a Latin 00:25:25.769 --> 00:25:28.450 translation of his own phrase, free speech is 00:25:28.450 --> 00:25:31.250 life itself. It's remarkable how the necessity 00:25:31.250 --> 00:25:33.509 of hiding didn't silence his creative output. 00:25:33.690 --> 00:25:36.509 In fact, some of his most profound allegorical 00:25:36.509 --> 00:25:38.990 works came directly from the experience of the 00:25:38.990 --> 00:25:42.160 fatwa. His 1990 children's book, Heron and the 00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:45.160 Sea of Stories, is maybe the most direct and 00:25:45.160 --> 00:25:48.559 moving literary response. Written in the immediate 00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:51.140 shadow of the death sentence, it's an explicit 00:25:51.140 --> 00:25:53.619 allegorical defense of the power of storytelling 00:25:53.619 --> 00:25:56.380 over silence. As the threat subsided into the 00:25:56.380 --> 00:25:58.660 rhetorical in the late 90s, his work expanded 00:25:58.660 --> 00:26:01.259 again. The Ground Beneath Her Feet in 1999 was 00:26:01.259 --> 00:26:03.559 this massive novel riffing on the Orpheus and 00:26:03.559 --> 00:26:05.539 Eurydice myth. But casting them as modern rock 00:26:05.539 --> 00:26:08.019 stars, exploring the mythic power of music and 00:26:08.019 --> 00:26:10.799 tragedy. And again, a fascinating tidbit is his 00:26:10.799 --> 00:26:13.440 connection to U2. Rushdie is actually credited 00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:15.980 as the lyricist for the U2 song based on the 00:26:15.980 --> 00:26:18.759 book's title. That's amazing. He continued this 00:26:18.759 --> 00:26:21.019 exploration of history and transnational identity, 00:26:21.259 --> 00:26:24.349 right? The Enchantress of Florence in 2008 looked 00:26:24.349 --> 00:26:26.890 backward to a European visiting the court of 00:26:26.890 --> 00:26:29.789 the great Mughal emperor Akbar. Always fascinated 00:26:29.789 --> 00:26:32.609 by that interplay between East and West. Then, 00:26:32.609 --> 00:26:36.049 in 2015, Two Years, Eight Months, and 28 Nights 00:26:36.049 --> 00:26:40.369 was a modern, magical, realist take on 1001 Nights 00:26:40.369 --> 00:26:43.529 with a war against jinns. And critics immediately 00:26:43.529 --> 00:26:46.289 drew parallels, seeing him as Scheherazade reborn. 00:26:46.529 --> 00:26:48.890 A master storyteller facing death for telling 00:26:48.890 --> 00:26:50.910 unwelcome tales. And then, of course, Victory 00:26:50.910 --> 00:26:53.529 City was published in 2023, shortly after the 00:26:53.529 --> 00:26:56.710 devastating 2022 attack. A powerful, immediate 00:26:56.710 --> 00:26:59.430 statement of his ultimate refusal to be silenced. 00:26:59.529 --> 00:27:01.670 And beyond literature, his political views stayed 00:27:01.670 --> 00:27:04.390 consistent and globally engaged. He supported 00:27:04.390 --> 00:27:07.250 removing the Taliban after 9 -11, but was a harsh 00:27:07.250 --> 00:27:10.009 critic of the 2003 Iraq War, calling the U .S. 00:27:10.049 --> 00:27:12.670 intervention unjustifiable. His focus then brought 00:27:12.670 --> 00:27:15.130 into this phenomenon he called populist authoritarian 00:27:15.130 --> 00:27:18.450 demagoguery. All around the world, he was specifically 00:27:18.450 --> 00:27:20.970 lamenting the failure in the U .S. to uphold 00:27:20.970 --> 00:27:22.869 the democratic principles of the First Amendment, 00:27:23.049 --> 00:27:25.289 the very freedom he spent decades defending. 00:27:25.769 --> 00:27:28.450 And his criticism extends pointedly to his country 00:27:28.450 --> 00:27:31.769 of birth, India. Yes, he's consistently criticized 00:27:31.769 --> 00:27:34.950 the ruling BJP party and Prime Minister Narendra 00:27:34.950 --> 00:27:37.410 Modi. And he spoke out about the revocation of 00:27:37.410 --> 00:27:40.609 Jammu and Kashmir's special status in 2019, calling 00:27:40.609 --> 00:27:43.710 it an atrocity. He suggested a direct link between 00:27:43.710 --> 00:27:45.950 that political heavy handedness and the fueling 00:27:45.950 --> 00:27:48.470 of extremism in the region. Precisely. He argued 00:27:48.470 --> 00:27:50.490 the actions of the Indian army created a vacuum 00:27:50.490 --> 00:27:53.230 and a climate of despair where jihadism could 00:27:53.230 --> 00:27:55.589 gain support, leaving Kashmiris feeling caught 00:27:55.589 --> 00:27:58.210 between the devil and the deep blue sea. His 00:27:58.210 --> 00:28:00.890 core philosophy, that societies must allow internal 00:28:00.890 --> 00:28:03.809 criticism, was applied to Indian politics just 00:28:03.809 --> 00:28:06.549 as forcefully as it was to religious extremism. 00:28:07.259 --> 00:28:09.660 You know, for over 30 years, the fatwa existed 00:28:09.660 --> 00:28:12.279 as this dark, enduring background hum to his 00:28:12.279 --> 00:28:14.960 life. He tried to treat it as rhetoric, but the 00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:17.099 sources make it chillingly clear that the physical 00:28:17.099 --> 00:28:19.900 danger was always real. The reality of that long 00:28:19.900 --> 00:28:22.859 -term threat, it's just chillingly summarized 00:28:22.859 --> 00:28:25.440 by the fact that in 2010, his name was published 00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:28.000 on an Al -Qaeda hit list. In their magazine, 00:28:28.240 --> 00:28:31.980 Inspire. alongside figures like Ayaan Hirsi Ali 00:28:31.980 --> 00:28:34.599 and the staff of Charlie Hebdo. Many of those 00:28:34.599 --> 00:28:37.000 on that land were subsequently attacked or murdered. 00:28:37.220 --> 00:28:40.240 It was a living operational target list. And 00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:42.240 even after he had emerged from official hiding 00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:44.759 and was living mostly in the U .S., the threat 00:28:44.759 --> 00:28:46.680 was concrete enough to affect his movements. 00:28:47.000 --> 00:28:49.880 In 2012, he had to cancel an appearance at the 00:28:49.880 --> 00:28:52.339 Jaipur Literature Festival. Because local police 00:28:52.339 --> 00:28:54.779 had credible intelligence that paid assassins 00:28:54.779 --> 00:28:57.170 were being sent to kill him. And that Jaipur 00:28:57.170 --> 00:28:59.509 incident is crucial because it showed the continued 00:28:59.509 --> 00:29:02.069 power of the threat to enforce censorship even 00:29:02.069 --> 00:29:05.029 a quarter century later. It did. When Rushdie 00:29:05.029 --> 00:29:07.789 canceled, four other Indian authors read excerpts 00:29:07.789 --> 00:29:10.490 from the banned novel in protest. A brave act. 00:29:10.630 --> 00:29:13.130 An incredibly brave act, which led to their immediate 00:29:13.130 --> 00:29:15.430 forced flight from the festival due to the threat 00:29:15.430 --> 00:29:18.049 of arrest and public outcry. The government even 00:29:18.049 --> 00:29:20.410 pressured the festival to cancel a proposed video 00:29:20.410 --> 00:29:22.609 link session with him. So the fatwa function 00:29:22.609 --> 00:29:24.950 as this self -enforcing system of international 00:29:24.950 --> 00:29:28.069 censorship. Using fear and sporadic violence 00:29:28.069 --> 00:29:30.950 to achieve its aims. And all of this history, 00:29:31.089 --> 00:29:34.009 it led inexorably to the horrifying events of 00:29:34.009 --> 00:29:36.769 August 12th, 2022. In a moment where he felt 00:29:36.769 --> 00:29:39.099 relatively safe. Preparing to give a lecture 00:29:39.099 --> 00:29:41.180 on artistic freedom at the Chautauqua Institution 00:29:41.180 --> 00:29:44.519 in New York, he was violently attacked. A 24 00:29:44.519 --> 00:29:47.220 -year -old man, Hadi Mattar, rushed the stage 00:29:47.220 --> 00:29:50.099 and stabbed him repeatedly in the face, neck, 00:29:50.259 --> 00:29:52.619 and abdomen. The speed and brutality of it were 00:29:52.619 --> 00:29:55.180 just shocking. He was airlifted to a trauma center, 00:29:55.299 --> 00:29:57.700 put on a ventilator. Security had to be drastically 00:29:57.700 --> 00:29:59.799 increased at the hospital. Because of the real 00:29:59.799 --> 00:30:02.039 potential for secondary attempts on his life 00:30:02.039 --> 00:30:04.519 by those seeking to fulfill the edict. The injuries 00:30:04.519 --> 00:30:07.670 were so severe. Stab wounds to the liver, his 00:30:07.670 --> 00:30:09.930 hand and the permanent loss of sight in his right 00:30:09.930 --> 00:30:12.549 eye. This was not a symbolic attack. It was a 00:30:12.549 --> 00:30:15.049 focused, near successful murder attempt. And 00:30:15.049 --> 00:30:17.170 yet, demonstrating that immediate resilience, 00:30:17.529 --> 00:30:20.250 he was off the ventilator and speaking just a 00:30:20.250 --> 00:30:23.529 day later. But the profound psychological element 00:30:23.529 --> 00:30:26.650 of the attack is detailed in his memoir, Knife. 00:30:27.349 --> 00:30:29.730 And there's this surprising, almost prophetic 00:30:29.730 --> 00:30:33.930 detail he shares. The dream. The dream. Two nights 00:30:33.930 --> 00:30:35.789 before the attack, he had this vivid, intense 00:30:35.789 --> 00:30:38.329 dream of being violently stabbed multiple times 00:30:38.329 --> 00:30:40.349 in an ancient Roman amphitheater. Like being 00:30:40.349 --> 00:30:42.569 stabbed by a gladiator. That's how he described 00:30:42.569 --> 00:30:45.710 it. The intensity of the dream was so great that 00:30:45.710 --> 00:30:48.069 it caused him to seriously consider canceling 00:30:48.069 --> 00:30:51.029 the event. But he decided to proceed anyway, 00:30:51.289 --> 00:30:54.269 refusing to let fear dictate his schedule. The 00:30:54.269 --> 00:30:56.569 aftermath has been characterized by legal entanglement 00:30:56.569 --> 00:30:59.029 and a return to literary creation as a form of 00:30:59.029 --> 00:31:01.710 self -defense. Right. Hadi Matar was charged 00:31:01.710 --> 00:31:04.589 with attempted murder. His trial faced a specific 00:31:04.589 --> 00:31:08.049 high -profile delay in January 2024. Because 00:31:08.049 --> 00:31:10.390 of the memoir? The defense attorney argued they 00:31:10.390 --> 00:31:12.569 were entitled to review Rushdie's forthcoming 00:31:12.569 --> 00:31:16.849 memoir, Knife. Meditations. After an attempted 00:31:16.849 --> 00:31:19.470 murder. Arguing that the details within it constituted 00:31:19.470 --> 00:31:23.119 potential evidence. That memoir, Knife, was published 00:31:23.119 --> 00:31:26.500 in April 2024 to massive commercial and critical 00:31:26.500 --> 00:31:29.420 success. It was even a finalist for the National 00:31:29.420 --> 00:31:31.960 Book Award. And the book details not just his 00:31:31.960 --> 00:31:34.380 physical and emotional recovery, but it also 00:31:34.380 --> 00:31:36.980 includes fictional conversations with his assailant, 00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:40.869 whom he refers to simply as A. This narrative 00:31:40.869 --> 00:31:43.049 choice to create a dialogue with his attacker, 00:31:43.170 --> 00:31:45.910 even a fictional one, is such a profound act 00:31:45.910 --> 00:31:48.289 of literary assertion. It's the author claiming 00:31:48.289 --> 00:31:51.109 control of the narrative, refusing to allow the 00:31:51.109 --> 00:31:54.450 attacker to remain a silent, faceless void. He's 00:31:54.450 --> 00:31:56.690 trying to understand, dissect, and ultimately 00:31:56.690 --> 00:31:59.309 reduce the power of the violence by turning it 00:31:59.309 --> 00:32:01.609 into literature. And the legal proceedings finally 00:32:01.609 --> 00:32:05.170 concluded. Yes. In February 2025, Hadi Matar 00:32:05.170 --> 00:32:07.210 was found guilty of attempted murder and assault, 00:32:07.369 --> 00:32:09.890 and he was sentenced to 25 years in prison in 00:32:09.890 --> 00:32:12.430 May 2025. A crucial measure of accountability. 00:32:12.829 --> 00:32:15.109 And amidst all this trauma, the world has continued 00:32:15.109 --> 00:32:17.650 to recognize his endurance. He was appointed 00:32:17.650 --> 00:32:19.589 a member of the Order of the Companions of Honor, 00:32:19.730 --> 00:32:22.589 received the German Book Trade Peace Prize. And 00:32:22.589 --> 00:32:24.369 it's important to remember the controversy around 00:32:24.369 --> 00:32:27.769 his knighthood in 2007. While celebrated in the 00:32:27.769 --> 00:32:30.730 West, it drew outrage from some Muslim -majority 00:32:30.730 --> 00:32:33.829 nations and was condemned by al -Qaeda as an 00:32:33.829 --> 00:32:36.430 insult to Islam. It just reinforces that the 00:32:36.430 --> 00:32:38.690 death sentence remained woven into his identity, 00:32:38.930 --> 00:32:41.849 ready to be activated by extremists. And Christopher 00:32:41.849 --> 00:32:44.150 Hitchens, defending the knighthood at the time, 00:32:44.210 --> 00:32:47.640 made a powerful counterargument. He noted that 00:32:47.640 --> 00:32:49.619 Midnight's Children had actually won the main 00:32:49.619 --> 00:32:52.519 literary award in Iran before the fatwa. So he 00:32:52.519 --> 00:32:55.119 was celebrated there once. He was. And Hitches 00:32:55.119 --> 00:32:57.160 asserted that lumping all Muslims together with 00:32:57.160 --> 00:33:00.339 the most extreme, homicidal, fanatical, illiterate, 00:33:00.339 --> 00:33:02.740 intolerant people who hadn't read the book was 00:33:02.740 --> 00:33:06.039 an insult to Islam itself. It is a powerful argument 00:33:06.039 --> 00:33:08.420 against allowing extremists to define an entire 00:33:08.420 --> 00:33:11.339 faith. You know, what stands out in this decades 00:33:11.339 --> 00:33:13.700 -long narrative is this profound synthesis of 00:33:13.700 --> 00:33:16.210 literature and liberty. His journey is defined 00:33:16.210 --> 00:33:18.910 by his commitment to telling the stories, a theme 00:33:18.910 --> 00:33:21.170 he articulated so powerfully in Haroon in the 00:33:21.170 --> 00:33:23.990 Sea of Stories. And that insistence on the power 00:33:23.990 --> 00:33:27.029 of the narrative forced him to lead a life defined 00:33:27.029 --> 00:33:29.250 by this battle for liberty against religious 00:33:29.250 --> 00:33:32.369 and political totalitarianism. We've tracked 00:33:32.369 --> 00:33:35.109 the long arc of censorship attempts from international 00:33:35.109 --> 00:33:38.269 book bans and death vows to failed bombings, 00:33:38.269 --> 00:33:41.150 targeted attacks on his associates. And finally, 00:33:41.190 --> 00:33:44.089 the direct, brutal, near successful attack in. 00:33:44.329 --> 00:33:47.910 He survived every attempt to silence him, transforming 00:33:47.910 --> 00:33:50.329 his body into a battleground for global freedom. 00:33:50.630 --> 00:33:52.970 And if we connect this decades long struggle 00:33:52.970 --> 00:33:55.710 to the bigger picture, Rushdie himself has said 00:33:55.710 --> 00:33:58.309 that the biggest threat he now faces is shifting 00:33:58.309 --> 00:34:01.369 in focus. He's noted the global rise of populist 00:34:01.369 --> 00:34:04.349 authoritarian demagoguery. He believes the problem 00:34:04.349 --> 00:34:06.789 is increasingly political more than primarily 00:34:06.789 --> 00:34:09.510 religious. He suggests a failure to value democratic 00:34:09.510 --> 00:34:11.630 principles and critical thinking is the root 00:34:11.630 --> 00:34:14.099 issue now challenging global liberty. So what 00:34:14.099 --> 00:34:16.059 does this all mean for you, the listener, in 00:34:16.059 --> 00:34:18.960 the contemporary struggle for open debate? In 00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:21.039 an age of information overload, where speech 00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:22.760 is often immediately judged through a highly 00:34:22.760 --> 00:34:25.739 partisan lens, and where fear of offense frequently 00:34:25.739 --> 00:34:28.829 trumps the courage to speak, How does the sheer 00:34:28.829 --> 00:34:31.750 decades -long endurance of a single controversial 00:34:31.750 --> 00:34:34.369 work of literature reflect our struggle for open 00:34:34.369 --> 00:34:36.670 debate and critical awareness in global society? 00:34:37.150 --> 00:34:40.210 Consider this. Rushdie's entire ethos is built 00:34:40.210 --> 00:34:42.570 on the necessity of questioning our grand narratives. 00:34:42.849 --> 00:34:45.690 He used a knife to write his latest memoir, a 00:34:45.690 --> 00:34:47.869 direct, symbolic confrontation of the weapon 00:34:47.869 --> 00:34:50.780 used against him. the writer transforming violence 00:34:50.780 --> 00:34:53.099 into art is perhaps the ultimate act of intellectual 00:34:53.099 --> 00:34:56.159 defiance if we become a society where fear of 00:34:56.159 --> 00:34:58.300 offense replaces the courage to critically examine 00:34:58.300 --> 00:35:00.599 our foundational stories whether they are stories 00:35:00.599 --> 00:35:03.679 of faith nation or ideology we risk building 00:35:03.679 --> 00:35:06.139 the kind of stagnant suffocating prison Rushdie 00:35:06.139 --> 00:35:08.599 has always fought to escape the only way to win 00:35:08.599 --> 00:35:11.199 a war over words is to keep speaking and to keep 00:35:11.199 --> 00:35:13.019 demanding the right to think new thoughts