WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.960 Welcome back to The Deep Dive. We're here to 00:00:01.960 --> 00:00:03.740 cut through the noise and give you the real story, 00:00:03.859 --> 00:00:06.480 the insights you need. Today we're tackling a 00:00:06.480 --> 00:00:09.119 really fascinating figure, a career marked by 00:00:09.119 --> 00:00:12.939 huge highs and, well, some pretty dramatic lows. 00:00:13.259 --> 00:00:16.359 We're talking about singer and songwriter Jeffrey 00:00:16.359 --> 00:00:18.739 Wayne Tate, better known as Jeff Tate. Yeah, 00:00:18.760 --> 00:00:22.480 Jeff Tate, the voice for so long of Queensrace. 00:00:22.519 --> 00:00:24.859 Exactly. We've gone through a lot of material 00:00:24.859 --> 00:00:27.059 here, articles, interviews, legal documents, 00:00:27.160 --> 00:00:30.350 even covering his rise with this. you know giant 00:00:30.350 --> 00:00:33.149 progressive heavy metal band the incredible success 00:00:33.149 --> 00:00:35.929 they had and then the really messy very public 00:00:35.929 --> 00:00:39.270 very legal split it got complicated fast so our 00:00:39.270 --> 00:00:41.270 mission today really is to chart that course 00:00:41.270 --> 00:00:44.289 the music the fame but especially focus on that 00:00:44.289 --> 00:00:46.390 legal fallout because the details of how they 00:00:46.390 --> 00:00:48.409 restricted him how he could talk about his own 00:00:48.409 --> 00:00:51.929 past that's where it gets kind of wild it really 00:00:51.929 --> 00:00:53.570 does and when you talk about his legacy i mean 00:00:53.570 --> 00:00:56.009 this isn't a minor figure we're discussing jeff 00:00:56.009 --> 00:00:58.210 tate was progressive metal for a huge audience 00:00:58.210 --> 00:01:02.109 the albums he from and especially Operation Mindcrime 00:01:02.109 --> 00:01:05.469 in 88, a classic. Absolutely. And then Empire 00:01:05.469 --> 00:01:08.409 in 1990, that one went massive, multi -platinum. 00:01:08.409 --> 00:01:10.530 These weren't just albums. They were like cornerstones 00:01:10.530 --> 00:01:13.310 of the genre. And respected too, right? Not just 00:01:13.310 --> 00:01:15.930 sales. Oh, definitely. Our sources show he was 00:01:15.930 --> 00:01:18.329 consistently ranked Hi -Hit Parader's top metal 00:01:18.329 --> 00:01:21.519 vocalists, number 14, I think. That metal show 00:01:21.519 --> 00:01:23.799 called him one of the best hard rock voices of 00:01:23.799 --> 00:01:27.500 the 80s, Vegas Rocks, gave him an award for his 00:01:27.500 --> 00:01:29.579 voice in progressive heavy metal back in 2012, 00:01:29.900 --> 00:01:31.980 ironically right around When Things Fell Apart. 00:01:32.909 --> 00:01:35.989 A major talent, widely recognized, which makes 00:01:35.989 --> 00:01:39.010 the breakup even more stark. Exactly. This isn't 00:01:39.010 --> 00:01:40.930 about someone just fading away. It's about a 00:01:40.930 --> 00:01:43.950 top tier artist whose career basically got caught 00:01:43.950 --> 00:01:47.349 in this crossfire of internal band politics that 00:01:47.349 --> 00:01:50.069 then exploded into, well, a legal battle. OK, 00:01:50.129 --> 00:01:52.010 let's unpack this then, because, yeah, the music's 00:01:52.010 --> 00:01:54.329 important, but this deep dive feels almost more 00:01:54.329 --> 00:01:56.409 like a business case study, doesn't it? A corporate 00:01:56.409 --> 00:01:59.030 divorce. It had all the hallmarks, millions of 00:01:59.030 --> 00:02:01.469 dollars at stake, intellectual property. Right. 00:02:02.189 --> 00:02:04.950 It led to this totally bizarre situation where 00:02:04.950 --> 00:02:08.669 for nearly two years you had two different bands 00:02:08.669 --> 00:02:12.490 touring under the same name, Queensrache. A legal 00:02:12.490 --> 00:02:14.550 absurdity, really. You almost never see that. 00:02:14.650 --> 00:02:16.650 But the settlement. That's the bit that just 00:02:16.650 --> 00:02:18.310 blows my mind. And here's where it gets really 00:02:18.310 --> 00:02:20.990 interesting for anyone interested in like contracts 00:02:20.990 --> 00:02:24.509 or artist rights. Yeah. The fine print. It wasn't 00:02:24.509 --> 00:02:26.830 just, OK, you guys get the name. It was incredibly 00:02:26.830 --> 00:02:30.150 specific down to the font size about how Tate 00:02:30.150 --> 00:02:32.030 could even mention the band he'd fronted for 00:02:32.030 --> 00:02:34.349 30 years. It's like they were legally erasing 00:02:34.349 --> 00:02:37.069 his history. It is pretty unprecedented. That 00:02:37.069 --> 00:02:39.610 level of control over an artist, a professional 00:02:39.610 --> 00:02:42.689 identity after the split. It's where IP law just 00:02:42.689 --> 00:02:45.530 slammed right into personal legacy. So to really 00:02:45.530 --> 00:02:47.370 get why that settlement was so brutal, we need 00:02:47.370 --> 00:02:49.810 to understand what he built, right? The foundation. 00:02:49.969 --> 00:02:52.530 Absolutely. Let's go back. Okay. So Jeffrey Wayne 00:02:52.530 --> 00:02:55.349 Tate, born in Stuttgart, West Germany, 1959. 00:02:56.069 --> 00:02:58.650 It's kind of interesting itself. Yeah. His parents 00:02:58.650 --> 00:03:01.150 were American. Sources even trace his mother's 00:03:01.150 --> 00:03:03.349 side back to New Orleans. Bit of a geographical 00:03:03.349 --> 00:03:06.370 mix there. Definitely. But the family moved to 00:03:06.370 --> 00:03:08.909 Tacoma, Washington pretty soon after he was born. 00:03:08.990 --> 00:03:11.030 So he's fundamentally a product of that Pacific 00:03:11.030 --> 00:03:13.469 Northwest scene. Right. And his early interests. 00:03:14.420 --> 00:03:19.240 not heavy metal initially. It was more symphonic 00:03:19.240 --> 00:03:21.780 stuff, grand, dramatic music. You can kind of 00:03:21.780 --> 00:03:23.800 hear that influence later, can't you, in the 00:03:23.800 --> 00:03:26.080 scope of Queen's Rage's sound. Totally, that 00:03:26.080 --> 00:03:28.520 epic feel. He did a year at Tacoma Community 00:03:28.520 --> 00:03:31.840 College, starting in 77, but dropped out. Music 00:03:31.840 --> 00:03:35.020 was clearly the path. So the early Seattle scene, 00:03:35.159 --> 00:03:37.620 what was he doing before Queen's Rouge? Well, 00:03:37.620 --> 00:03:39.080 he was in a few bands. There was a progressive 00:03:39.080 --> 00:03:42.389 group called Babylon, then a cover band. The 00:03:42.389 --> 00:03:44.849 Mob. The Mob. That name comes up again, doesn't 00:03:44.849 --> 00:03:47.810 it? It does. But interestingly, he left The Mob 00:03:47.810 --> 00:03:50.990 at first. The reason. He didn't want to play 00:03:50.990 --> 00:03:52.930 covers. He was already focused on writing original 00:03:52.930 --> 00:03:56.409 material. Ah, okay. That drive for creative control 00:03:56.409 --> 00:03:59.009 seems like a theme. It really does. So after 00:03:59.009 --> 00:04:00.870 leaving The Mob, he joined another progressive 00:04:00.870 --> 00:04:03.469 metal band called Myth. He was lead vocals and 00:04:03.469 --> 00:04:06.530 keyboards there. Myth. Why is that significant? 00:04:06.870 --> 00:04:09.460 Because two of his bandmates in Myth. were Kelly 00:04:09.460 --> 00:04:11.960 Gray and Randy Gain. Remember those names? Got 00:04:11.960 --> 00:04:14.479 it. Kelly Gray, Randy Gain. So they pop up later. 00:04:14.759 --> 00:04:17.339 Decades later, yeah. It shows how tight his network 00:04:17.339 --> 00:04:19.660 was even back then, which, you know, mirrors 00:04:19.660 --> 00:04:21.459 the family involvement and management later on, 00:04:21.459 --> 00:04:23.759 too. Okay, so he's in myth, focused on original 00:04:23.759 --> 00:04:26.060 music. How does he end up back with the mob guys? 00:04:26.420 --> 00:04:30.790 Well, the mob called him up again in 1981. But 00:04:30.790 --> 00:04:33.230 this time, it wasn't about playing gigs doing 00:04:33.230 --> 00:04:36.129 covers. They wanted him to sing on a professional 00:04:36.129 --> 00:04:39.490 demo tape they were recording. Ah, okay. A recording 00:04:39.490 --> 00:04:42.509 project. Exactly. And Tate saw the value in that. 00:04:42.589 --> 00:04:45.170 He actually convinced his myth bandmates, Gray 00:04:45.170 --> 00:04:47.910 and Gain, that recording this high -quality demo 00:04:47.910 --> 00:04:50.790 would be good experience, even if it was technically 00:04:50.790 --> 00:04:53.490 for another band. Smart move. Professional experience. 00:04:53.649 --> 00:04:56.500 And it paid off. During that session... He wrote 00:04:56.500 --> 00:04:58.199 his very first song with that group. They had 00:04:58.199 --> 00:05:00.540 some music ready and he wrote lyrics and melody 00:05:00.540 --> 00:05:03.660 for it. Became the Lady War Black. That's a key 00:05:03.660 --> 00:05:05.720 track on their first release, right? Absolutely. 00:05:06.220 --> 00:05:08.959 That four song demo they made got passed around, 00:05:09.160 --> 00:05:12.639 created a buzz. It was released as an EP in 1982 00:05:12.639 --> 00:05:16.740 on an indie label, 206 Records. And that's when 00:05:16.740 --> 00:05:19.379 the mob decided, OK, we need a better name. They 00:05:19.379 --> 00:05:21.459 became Queensrush. And Tate was in for good. 00:05:21.699 --> 00:05:24.240 Yep. Permanent lead singer. And that indie EP. 00:05:24.829 --> 00:05:27.790 That was the catalyst for the major label deal. 00:05:27.910 --> 00:05:30.250 Directly. Off the back of that buzz, in the summer 00:05:30.250 --> 00:05:33.029 of 83, they signed this massive deal with EMI. 00:05:33.209 --> 00:05:36.470 How massive are we talking? 15 years. Seven albums 00:05:36.470 --> 00:05:39.209 guaranteed. Huge commitment from EMI. They re 00:05:39.209 --> 00:05:41.069 -released the EP right away to build momentum. 00:05:41.410 --> 00:05:44.269 Wow, 15 years. That's incredible stability, especially 00:05:44.269 --> 00:05:46.170 back then. And they delivered on that promise. 00:05:46.699 --> 00:05:48.899 Commercially speaking, Queensrache, over their 00:05:48.899 --> 00:05:51.699 career, sold over 20 million albums worldwide. 00:05:52.000 --> 00:05:54.319 20 million. That's staggering. It really is. 00:05:54.399 --> 00:05:56.759 The Warning in 84, Rage for Order in 86, those 00:05:56.759 --> 00:05:59.000 really carved out their unique sound. But the 00:05:59.000 --> 00:06:01.519 absolute peaks, commercially and critically, 00:06:01.980 --> 00:06:05.259 Operation, Mindcrime in 88, often called one 00:06:05.259 --> 00:06:07.379 of the greatest metal albums ever. Consistently. 00:06:07.379 --> 00:06:10.319 It's a benchmark. And then Empire in 1990. That 00:06:10.319 --> 00:06:13.600 album was huge. Silent Lucidity was a massive 00:06:13.600 --> 00:06:16.259 crossover hit. Went multi -platinum. Can't forget 00:06:16.259 --> 00:06:19.439 Promised Land either, 94. Still successful. Right. 00:06:19.500 --> 00:06:22.560 They had a solid decade, maybe a bit more, where 00:06:22.560 --> 00:06:25.600 they were just absolutely at the top of the progressive 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:28.339 heavy metal world, undisputed. Which makes the 00:06:28.339 --> 00:06:31.300 way it all fell apart just so jarring. It wasn't 00:06:31.300 --> 00:06:33.600 a slow decline. It was like a bomb went off. 00:06:33.720 --> 00:06:36.160 Yeah. And implosion is the right word. Sudden, 00:06:36.160 --> 00:06:38.740 violent, and immediately legal. So let's get 00:06:38.740 --> 00:06:40.779 into that. The buildup. What was happening behind 00:06:40.779 --> 00:06:42.600 the scenes leading up to 2012? Well, the core 00:06:42.600 --> 00:06:44.720 issue, according to the sources, really seemed 00:06:44.720 --> 00:06:47.240 to revolve around management and specifically. 00:06:47.720 --> 00:06:49.819 family involvement in management. Tate's wife, 00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:52.120 Susan. Yes. She had been the band's official 00:06:52.120 --> 00:06:55.579 manager from 2005 to 2012, but her involvement 00:06:55.579 --> 00:06:57.860 went back further. She was running the fan club 00:06:57.860 --> 00:07:00.120 in the late 90s, then became assistant manager 00:07:00.120 --> 00:07:02.939 in 2001. So a long history there. A very long 00:07:02.939 --> 00:07:05.339 history. And on top of that, Tate's stepdaughter, 00:07:05.439 --> 00:07:07.439 Miranda, was also running the fan club by this 00:07:07.439 --> 00:07:10.319 point. So management and fan relations. It was 00:07:10.319 --> 00:07:12.560 all family. Okay. I can see how that might cause 00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:14.500 friction with the other long -term band members. 00:07:14.680 --> 00:07:16.560 That seems to be exactly what happened. The Flashpoint 00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:20.720 was a meeting on April 12, 2012. Tate wasn't 00:07:20.720 --> 00:07:23.819 there. He didn't attend. No. And the other three 00:07:23.819 --> 00:07:26.579 founding members, Michael Wilton on guitar, Scott 00:07:26.579 --> 00:07:29.319 Rockenfield on drums, Eddie Jackson on bass, 00:07:29.420 --> 00:07:33.160 they held a vote. Unanimous decision. Fire Susan 00:07:33.160 --> 00:07:37.000 as manager and fire Miranda from the fan club. 00:07:37.540 --> 00:07:40.160 Wow. OK, that's a direct shot. It was clearly 00:07:40.160 --> 00:07:42.560 meant as one. Wilton later said publicly that 00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:44.839 from their perspective, they felt like they hadn't 00:07:44.839 --> 00:07:46.480 had a voice in their own band for about three 00:07:46.480 --> 00:07:49.019 years. Three years. Yeah. He claimed everything 00:07:49.019 --> 00:07:51.540 touring finances decisions was being run solely 00:07:51.540 --> 00:07:54.319 by Tate and his wife, the manager. Firing them 00:07:54.319 --> 00:07:56.459 was their attempt to, you know, take back the 00:07:56.459 --> 00:07:58.339 reins of their own company. So corporate move, 00:07:58.579 --> 00:08:00.459 essentially. But it didn't stay corporate for 00:08:00.459 --> 00:08:02.899 long, did it? Not at all. Two days later, April 00:08:02.899 --> 00:08:05.420 14th, 2012, they're in Sao Paulo, Brazil for 00:08:05.420 --> 00:08:07.500 a show. Well, for Soundcheck, the argument breaks 00:08:07.500 --> 00:08:10.079 out, specifically about the firing. And this 00:08:10.079 --> 00:08:13.060 is where it gets physical. Yes. Things escalated 00:08:13.060 --> 00:08:16.220 very quickly. Sources say Tate reacted angrily, 00:08:16.240 --> 00:08:20.180 knocked over the drum kit, threw punches, and 00:08:20.180 --> 00:08:22.920 physically assaulted Quilton and Rockenfield. 00:08:23.180 --> 00:08:25.560 Yeah. Specifically, spitting on both of them. 00:08:25.620 --> 00:08:28.420 Spitting, wow. It's like crossing a line. A big 00:08:28.420 --> 00:08:32.700 one. And in the age of camera phones, footage 00:08:32.700 --> 00:08:35.179 of that incident, especially the spitting, hit 00:08:35.179 --> 00:08:37.769 the internet. Almost immediately. It became very 00:08:37.769 --> 00:08:39.769 public, very fast. Yeah. That was really the 00:08:39.769 --> 00:08:41.850 point of no return. So that's the breaking point. 00:08:41.909 --> 00:08:43.529 But they didn't fire him right then and there. 00:08:43.730 --> 00:08:46.049 No. Which is interesting. The narratives suggest 00:08:46.049 --> 00:08:48.389 they played the next three shows, but the atmosphere 00:08:48.389 --> 00:08:50.809 was obviously terrible. The other members felt 00:08:50.809 --> 00:08:53.690 Tate continued to, quote, misbehave. Suggesting 00:08:53.690 --> 00:08:55.169 the conflict didn't just end in some policy. 00:08:55.169 --> 00:08:56.850 Exactly. It sounds like trust was completely 00:08:56.850 --> 00:08:58.789 gone. Yeah. They were just fulfilling obligations 00:08:58.789 --> 00:09:00.570 while figuring out the next step. Which took 00:09:00.570 --> 00:09:03.269 a while. Almost two months. The formal decision 00:09:03.269 --> 00:09:07.090 came via a conference call. June 5th or 6th, 00:09:07.090 --> 00:09:10.169 2012. And Tate was on this call. He was initially, 00:09:10.370 --> 00:09:13.029 but he withdrew from the call. The other three, 00:09:13.190 --> 00:09:16.169 Wilton, Rockenfield, Jackson, then voted to formally 00:09:16.169 --> 00:09:18.370 kick him out of the band. Expelled him. Yep. 00:09:18.669 --> 00:09:21.590 And crucially, they voted to continue using the 00:09:21.590 --> 00:09:24.370 Queensryche name, but with a new singer. They 00:09:24.370 --> 00:09:27.070 brought in Todd Latour. So a very deliberate, 00:09:27.210 --> 00:09:30.129 planned corporate action after that initial explosion. 00:09:30.470 --> 00:09:32.740 Precisely. But, of course, Tate wasn't going 00:09:32.740 --> 00:09:35.500 to accept that quietly. No kidding. Lawsuit time. 00:09:35.720 --> 00:09:40.779 Immediately. June 12, 2012. Tate and his wife 00:09:40.779 --> 00:09:44.320 Susan filed suit. The claim was wrongful termination. 00:09:44.559 --> 00:09:47.039 Meaning they argued the firing violated their 00:09:47.039 --> 00:09:49.620 agreements. Presumably the partnership or corporate 00:09:49.620 --> 00:09:52.679 agreements, yes. They sought damages. And they 00:09:52.679 --> 00:09:55.379 also asked the court for a preliminary injunction. 00:09:55.710 --> 00:09:57.450 OK, explain that for us. What's a preliminary 00:09:57.450 --> 00:09:59.889 injunction in this context? It's basically a 00:09:59.889 --> 00:10:01.850 temporary court order. They were asking the judge 00:10:01.850 --> 00:10:04.570 to stop everyone, both Tate and the other guys, 00:10:04.750 --> 00:10:06.990 from using the Queens Rage name and logo while 00:10:06.990 --> 00:10:09.049 the lawsuit played out to kind of freeze everything 00:10:09.049 --> 00:10:11.129 until a final decision on ownership could be 00:10:11.129 --> 00:10:13.210 made. That sounds logical. Prevent confusion. 00:10:13.710 --> 00:10:16.470 It does. But the judge in Washington state didn't 00:10:16.470 --> 00:10:19.529 grant it. On July 13, 2012, the court denied 00:10:19.529 --> 00:10:21.769 the injunction. Denied it. So what did that mean? 00:10:22.029 --> 00:10:24.470 It meant chaos. The ruling essentially said, 00:10:24.590 --> 00:10:27.450 OK, Both of you can call yourselves Queensrush 00:10:27.450 --> 00:10:30.309 until we figure this out. Seriously? Two bands 00:10:30.309 --> 00:10:33.370 with the same name? Yes. From June 2012 until 00:10:33.370 --> 00:10:36.529 the final settlement in April 2014, you had two 00:10:36.529 --> 00:10:39.409 different Queensrushes touring, recording, marketing 00:10:39.409 --> 00:10:41.889 themselves. It was a complete mess for fans, 00:10:42.049 --> 00:10:45.370 promoters, everyone. Highly unusual outcome for 00:10:45.370 --> 00:10:47.370 this kind of dispute. That sounds like a nightmare. 00:10:47.590 --> 00:10:49.590 How did it finally get resolved? With a settlement 00:10:49.590 --> 00:10:53.470 announced April 28, 2014, almost two years later. 00:10:53.610 --> 00:10:56.299 And the verdict? Who got the name? The original 00:10:56.299 --> 00:10:58.519 Embers. Rock and Field, Wilton, and Jackson. 00:10:58.820 --> 00:11:01.120 They got the exclusive permanent rights to the 00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:03.120 Queens Ridge trademark, the name, the brand, 00:11:03.259 --> 00:11:05.740 everything associated with it. So Tate lost the 00:11:05.740 --> 00:11:08.379 name entirely. He did. But he did get something 00:11:08.379 --> 00:11:11.259 specific in return. He secured the rights to 00:11:11.259 --> 00:11:14.399 perform two key albums in their entirety. Operation, 00:11:14.759 --> 00:11:18.340 Mindcrime, and its sequel, Operation. Mindcrime 00:11:18.340 --> 00:11:21.539 too, so. Ah, okay. So he could play his signature 00:11:21.539 --> 00:11:24.200 work. Yes, but even that came with a catch. The 00:11:24.200 --> 00:11:26.080 settlement stipulated he could only perform them 00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:28.159 in unique performances. What does that mean, 00:11:28.220 --> 00:11:30.980 like special event shows? Seems like it. Not 00:11:30.980 --> 00:11:33.799 just rolling them out on any standard tour. It 00:11:33.799 --> 00:11:35.940 implies a higher bar for billing or presentation. 00:11:36.820 --> 00:11:39.240 Still, a significant asset for him to retain. 00:11:39.519 --> 00:11:42.059 Okay, now let's dig into the really specific 00:11:42.059 --> 00:11:45.200 parts of that settlement. the restrictions, because 00:11:45.200 --> 00:11:47.279 this is where it gets, as you said, unprecedented. 00:11:47.500 --> 00:11:50.120 It really is quite something. Let's break it 00:11:50.120 --> 00:11:54.230 down. First, the basics. Tate formally sold his 00:11:54.230 --> 00:11:57.029 share of the Queen's Rush name and all associated 00:11:57.029 --> 00:12:00.309 intellectual property, standard enough in a buyout. 00:12:00.350 --> 00:12:03.070 Right. Second, he explicitly lost the right to 00:12:03.070 --> 00:12:05.649 use the band's logo, the tri -rice symbol. The 00:12:05.649 --> 00:12:07.929 iconic three -pronged thing. That's the one, 00:12:08.049 --> 00:12:10.769 a huge part of their visual identity. He also 00:12:10.769 --> 00:12:13.190 lost rights to other album imagery, except for 00:12:13.190 --> 00:12:15.529 the stuff directly related to the two Mindcrime 00:12:15.529 --> 00:12:17.860 albums he retained performance rights for. Okay, 00:12:17.899 --> 00:12:19.899 so losing the name and logo, that makes sense 00:12:19.899 --> 00:12:22.039 if you sell your share. But the marketing stuff, 00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:24.480 that's different. That's where it gets really 00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:26.899 specific. There was a two -year transition period 00:12:26.899 --> 00:12:30.519 ending exactly on August 31st, 2014. During that 00:12:30.519 --> 00:12:33.179 time, he could refer to his past, but only using 00:12:33.179 --> 00:12:35.720 very specific phrases. Like what? Phrases like, 00:12:35.860 --> 00:12:39.360 the original lead singer of Queensrush, or formerly 00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:42.480 of Queensrush. Okay, that seems sort of standard, 00:12:42.559 --> 00:12:45.799 too. Ah, but here's the kicker. The settlement 00:12:45.799 --> 00:12:48.980 mandated that this text, formerly of Queensrush 00:12:48.980 --> 00:12:52.500 or whatever, had to be printed at least 50 % 00:12:52.500 --> 00:12:55.600 smaller than Tate's own name on all promotional 00:12:55.600 --> 00:12:58.399 materials. 50 % smaller? Seriously, they put 00:12:58.399 --> 00:13:01.120 that in the legal document. Explicitly. It's 00:13:01.120 --> 00:13:03.679 an incredibly precise, almost aggressive restriction. 00:13:04.230 --> 00:13:07.110 It's designed to ensure that even when he was 00:13:07.110 --> 00:13:09.210 allowed to reference the band, the focus was 00:13:09.210 --> 00:13:12.149 overwhelmingly on Jeff Tate, the solo artist, 00:13:12.350 --> 00:13:15.470 not Jeff Tate of Queens Roche, minimizing the 00:13:15.470 --> 00:13:18.470 connection legally. That is just wow. Micromanagement 00:13:18.470 --> 00:13:20.490 via legal settlement. And it didn't stop there. 00:13:20.590 --> 00:13:22.629 That was just for the two year window. The real 00:13:22.629 --> 00:13:25.750 long term impact came after August 31st, 2014. 00:13:26.029 --> 00:13:28.529 What happened then? After that date, the settlement 00:13:28.529 --> 00:13:30.590 dictated that he could only bill himself as Jeff 00:13:30.590 --> 00:13:33.600 Tate. Period. No mention of Queensrush whatsoever 00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:36.059 allowed in connection with his name in promotion 00:13:36.059 --> 00:13:38.700 or advertising. None at all. After 30 years, 00:13:38.799 --> 00:13:41.919 none at all. A complete legal decoupling. The 00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:44.720 intent was crystal clear. Sever his public identity 00:13:44.720 --> 00:13:47.440 from the brand name entirely. He was legally 00:13:47.440 --> 00:13:50.120 forced into a total rebranding effective September 00:13:50.120 --> 00:13:54.059 3, 2014. That's intense. Knowing that deadline 00:13:54.059 --> 00:13:56.980 is coming, August 31st, your legal identity changes. 00:13:57.159 --> 00:13:59.860 Talk about pressure. Absolutely. And you see 00:13:59.860 --> 00:14:02.100 that pressure reflected in how quickly he moved 00:14:02.100 --> 00:14:04.460 even before the settlement was final. Right. 00:14:04.559 --> 00:14:06.879 During that weird two year period with two Queens 00:14:06.879 --> 00:14:09.179 riches. What did Tate's version do? Well, he 00:14:09.179 --> 00:14:11.519 announced his own lineup almost immediately after 00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:14.480 being fired, around September 1st, 2012. And 00:14:14.480 --> 00:14:16.659 initially, they toured under that legally allowed, 00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:19.580 slightly awkward name, Queens Rich, starring 00:14:19.580 --> 00:14:22.659 Jeff Tate, the original voice, using that transitional 00:14:22.659 --> 00:14:24.980 allowance. Exactly. And his lineup was interesting. 00:14:25.159 --> 00:14:27.419 It told in those guys we mentioned earlier from 00:14:27.419 --> 00:14:29.879 his pre -Queens Roach days. Kelly Gray and Randy 00:14:29.879 --> 00:14:32.740 Gane from Myth. The very same, showing he leaned 00:14:32.740 --> 00:14:34.940 on those long -term connections. Plus, he brought 00:14:34.940 --> 00:14:37.220 in established veterans like Rooney Sarzo. bass 00:14:37.220 --> 00:14:40.039 and Simon Wright on drums, building a solid, 00:14:40.120 --> 00:14:42.940 experienced band quickly. And they put out an 00:14:42.940 --> 00:14:45.059 album under the Queen's Roche name during this 00:14:45.059 --> 00:14:48.210 period. They did. Frequency Unknown. Released 00:14:48.210 --> 00:14:52.190 in April 2013. But that album had its own set 00:14:52.190 --> 00:14:54.129 of issues. Yeah, what kind of issues? Beyond 00:14:54.129 --> 00:14:56.330 just the confusion of who was who. Production 00:14:56.330 --> 00:14:58.690 chaos, basically. The whole thing, writing, recording, 00:14:58.850 --> 00:15:00.450 mixing, was apparently rushed through in about 00:15:00.450 --> 00:15:03.549 six weeks. Jason Slater produced it. Six weeks? 00:15:03.610 --> 00:15:06.730 That's incredibly fast for a full album. Insanely 00:15:06.730 --> 00:15:09.990 fast. And reports suggest the initial mixes weren't 00:15:09.990 --> 00:15:11.970 great. They had sonic problems that needed fixing. 00:15:12.509 --> 00:15:14.690 urgently so what did they do they hired another 00:15:14.690 --> 00:15:17.330 producer billy sherwood specifically to remix 00:15:17.330 --> 00:15:20.889 the entire album and fix the sound but then sherwood 00:15:20.889 --> 00:15:24.190 backed out just days later why scheduling conflicts 00:15:24.190 --> 00:15:26.730 with the official reason but likely the insane 00:15:26.730 --> 00:15:29.029 deadline was just impossible the album had a 00:15:29.029 --> 00:15:31.190 hard release date manufacturing needed to start 00:15:31.190 --> 00:15:33.889 so they were stuck pretty much yeah the solution 00:15:33.889 --> 00:15:36.409 they apparently farmed out the remixing job to 00:15:36.409 --> 00:15:38.669 at least four different people Just to get done 00:15:38.669 --> 00:15:41.289 on time. Four different remixers on one album. 00:15:41.429 --> 00:15:44.750 Wow. That sounds disjointed. Yeah, that whole 00:15:44.750 --> 00:15:47.490 rushed, fragmented process definitely contributed 00:15:47.490 --> 00:15:50.149 to the, let's say, mixed reception frequency 00:15:50.149 --> 00:15:52.529 unknown got from fans. Yeah. Who were already 00:15:52.529 --> 00:15:54.490 trying to navigate the whole two band situation. 00:15:54.529 --> 00:15:57.870 Right. But despite the album drama, his version 00:15:57.870 --> 00:15:59.769 of the band was out there working. Oh, yeah. 00:15:59.870 --> 00:16:02.649 They launched the Operation Mindcrime Anniversary 00:16:02.649 --> 00:16:06.190 Tour in April 2013, celebrating the 25th anniversary 00:16:06.190 --> 00:16:09.190 of that album. They toured quite a bit, especially 00:16:09.190 --> 00:16:11.450 in the American Southwest. This was the band 00:16:11.450 --> 00:16:13.570 that legally had to stop using the Queensrache 00:16:13.570 --> 00:16:17.250 name on August 31st, 2014. Okay, so that date 00:16:17.250 --> 00:16:20.389 hits, August 31st, 2014. He can no longer say 00:16:20.389 --> 00:16:23.649 formally of Queensrache. What does he do? He 00:16:23.649 --> 00:16:26.250 pivots immediately. And smartly, he renames his 00:16:26.250 --> 00:16:28.610 entire project after the one major asset he was 00:16:28.610 --> 00:16:30.710 allowed to keep control of. Mindcrime. Exactly. 00:16:30.809 --> 00:16:33.330 His band became Operation. Mindcrime. Leveraging 00:16:33.330 --> 00:16:35.450 that iconic title. Yep. And it wasn't just a 00:16:35.450 --> 00:16:37.610 name change. He immediately launched a very ambitious 00:16:37.610 --> 00:16:40.029 project under that banner. A concept trilogy 00:16:40.029 --> 00:16:43.809 of albums. A trilogy. Right away. Yeah. The Key 00:16:43.809 --> 00:16:47.049 came out in 2015, Resurrection in 2016, and The 00:16:47.049 --> 00:16:50.549 New Reality in 2017. A three -part story. Okay, 00:16:50.629 --> 00:16:53.370 now this is fascinating. Well, what was the concept? 00:16:54.080 --> 00:16:57.159 Given the name, operation, mind crime, you'd 00:16:57.159 --> 00:16:59.980 expect maybe political intrigue, dystopia. Right. 00:17:00.259 --> 00:17:03.759 But no. The theme of this trilogy was, well, 00:17:03.879 --> 00:17:06.940 very different. It focused on virtual currencies, 00:17:07.240 --> 00:17:09.460 Internet banking and stock trading. Wait, really? 00:17:09.720 --> 00:17:12.480 Finance? Yeah. Modern digital finance, which 00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:14.279 is I mean, you can't help but notice the timing. 00:17:14.380 --> 00:17:16.119 No kidding. He's just gone through this brutal 00:17:16.119 --> 00:17:18.799 corporate battle over assets, branding, money. 00:17:19.099 --> 00:17:21.339 And his first major artistic statement afterwards 00:17:21.339 --> 00:17:25.500 is a trilogy about. money, virtual assets, stock 00:17:25.500 --> 00:17:27.859 trading. It's a pretty striking thematic choice, 00:17:27.940 --> 00:17:29.900 almost like he channeled the whole messy corporate 00:17:29.900 --> 00:17:32.440 dissolution to this commentary on abstract modern 00:17:32.440 --> 00:17:34.880 finance, a very intellectual, maybe even cold 00:17:34.880 --> 00:17:36.900 subject matter compared to his earlier work. 00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:39.079 That is really something. So besides the operation, 00:17:39.339 --> 00:17:41.599 Mindcrime Project, did he keep up his solo work? 00:17:41.680 --> 00:17:43.920 He did. He'd released a solo album back in 2002, 00:17:44.140 --> 00:17:46.500 self -titled, and another one, Kings and Thieves, 00:17:46.579 --> 00:17:48.740 came out right in the middle of the turmoil in 00:17:48.740 --> 00:17:52.250 2012. And personally. Didn't he make a big visual 00:17:52.250 --> 00:17:56.529 change around 2002 with his hair? Ah, yes. He 00:17:56.529 --> 00:17:59.170 shaved his signature long hair around that time. 00:17:59.430 --> 00:18:01.990 The reason, according to sources, was deeply 00:18:01.990 --> 00:18:04.829 personal. He did it in solidarity with a close 00:18:04.829 --> 00:18:07.369 family member who was battling cancer and sadly 00:18:07.369 --> 00:18:09.950 passed away. Wow. Okay. That puts a different 00:18:09.950 --> 00:18:12.190 light on that change. Definitely. And even through 00:18:12.190 --> 00:18:14.769 all the band drama, his voice itself remained 00:18:14.769 --> 00:18:16.829 in demand. He was part of that hearing aid famine 00:18:16.829 --> 00:18:19.690 relief project back in 85. The big metal all 00:18:19.690 --> 00:18:22.069 -star thing. Right. And more recently, he's been 00:18:22.069 --> 00:18:24.509 a frequent guest vocalist for Tobias Samet's 00:18:24.509 --> 00:18:27.109 Avantasia project. He's on several of their albums 00:18:27.109 --> 00:18:29.849 from 2016 right up to their latest planned release 00:18:29.849 --> 00:18:33.190 in 2025. So his vocal talent was still highly 00:18:33.190 --> 00:18:35.450 valued in the metal community. Okay, let's circle 00:18:35.450 --> 00:18:37.369 back to the controversies that flared up during 00:18:37.369 --> 00:18:39.700 the lawsuit period. because those seemed to really 00:18:39.700 --> 00:18:42.160 pour fuel on the fire. They definitely added 00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:43.980 to the negative narrative surrounding him at 00:18:43.980 --> 00:18:45.960 the time. And yeah, we should cover these impartially, 00:18:46.019 --> 00:18:47.940 just reporting what the sources say happened, 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:50.039 remembering it's all within that supercharged 00:18:50.039 --> 00:18:53.160 legal context. Right. So obviously the big one 00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:56.720 was Sao Paulo. April 2012, the physical fight, 00:18:56.839 --> 00:18:59.420 the splitting, that footage went everywhere. 00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:02.160 That was incredibly damaging, no question. Made 00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:04.619 the internal problem spectacularly public and 00:19:04.619 --> 00:19:06.980 ugly. Then there's another incident about a year 00:19:06.980 --> 00:19:10.170 later. may 2013 during that transition tour yeah 00:19:10.170 --> 00:19:13.690 in saint charles illinois video emerged of him 00:19:13.690 --> 00:19:16.470 on stage taking a smartphone from someone in 00:19:16.470 --> 00:19:18.710 the audience okay and then apparently throwing 00:19:18.710 --> 00:19:21.329 it over his shoulder back into the crowd okay 00:19:21.329 --> 00:19:24.329 that doesn't look good either more negative press 00:19:24.329 --> 00:19:27.890 loads of it now tate's response to these incidents 00:19:27.890 --> 00:19:30.470 is interesting he basically argued that things 00:19:30.470 --> 00:19:33.529 he considered very normal stage behavior were 00:19:33.529 --> 00:19:36.200 being deliberately twisted How so? He claimed 00:19:36.200 --> 00:19:38.519 his actions were being scrutinized and manipulated, 00:19:38.839 --> 00:19:40.880 implying by the opposing side in the lawsuit, 00:19:41.059 --> 00:19:43.440 perhaps specifically to paint him in a bad light. 00:19:43.599 --> 00:19:45.400 What about the phone specifically? Did he address 00:19:45.400 --> 00:19:48.539 that? He did. He insisted the video was misleading. 00:19:48.759 --> 00:19:51.119 His claim was that he was trying to take a selfie 00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:53.940 with the fan holding the phone and accidentally 00:19:53.940 --> 00:19:56.779 dropped it. He denied throwing it intentionally 00:19:56.779 --> 00:19:59.180 and accused whoever posted the video of manipulating 00:19:59.180 --> 00:20:02.460 it. So an accidental drop versus an intentional 00:20:02.460 --> 00:20:05.759 throw. Big difference. Huge difference. And he 00:20:05.759 --> 00:20:07.660 made a point about the lawsuit context, saying 00:20:07.660 --> 00:20:09.700 something like, when you're being sued, you have 00:20:09.700 --> 00:20:12.119 to be so careful what you say and you just have 00:20:12.119 --> 00:20:14.180 to trust the truth will come out eventually, 00:20:14.359 --> 00:20:17.220 presented in the way that it happened. You can 00:20:17.220 --> 00:20:20.180 really feel the pressure there, can't you? Performing 00:20:20.180 --> 00:20:22.700 live while knowing every single move could end 00:20:22.700 --> 00:20:25.359 up as Exhibit A in a legal battle. It must have 00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:27.759 been incredibly stressful, constantly under a 00:20:27.759 --> 00:20:30.359 microscope during a very public fight over your 00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:33.400 career and legacy. So moving away from the direct 00:20:33.400 --> 00:20:35.640 conflict for a moment, let's revisit the family 00:20:35.640 --> 00:20:38.759 angle. Because it seems so central to how the 00:20:38.759 --> 00:20:41.559 business was run and ultimately maybe why it 00:20:41.559 --> 00:20:44.079 broke down. It really does seem crucial. As we 00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:46.519 said, his wife Susan was the manager, having 00:20:46.519 --> 00:20:48.920 worked her way up. His stepdaughter Miranda ran 00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:51.380 the fan club. The business was family. And there 00:20:51.380 --> 00:20:52.880 was that other connection too, right, with the 00:20:52.880 --> 00:20:55.900 guitarist Parker Lundgren. Ah, yes. That's quite 00:20:55.900 --> 00:20:59.039 a tangled thread. Parker Lundgren joined Tate's 00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:03.619 solo band first in 2008. Then Tate brought him 00:21:03.619 --> 00:21:06.579 into Queens Rage itself in early 2009. And then 00:21:06.579 --> 00:21:10.259 as just a few months later in July 2009, Lundgren 00:21:10.259 --> 00:21:13.950 married Tate's stepdaughter, Miranda. Wow. So 00:21:13.950 --> 00:21:16.730 Tate hires him. Then he marries Tate's stepdaughter. 00:21:16.849 --> 00:21:19.109 Exactly. Now, the sources say that marriage didn't 00:21:19.109 --> 00:21:21.809 last long. They divorced soon after. But that 00:21:21.809 --> 00:21:24.430 whole sequence really highlights how intertwined 00:21:24.430 --> 00:21:26.509 Tate's professional decisions and his family 00:21:26.509 --> 00:21:28.690 life were. It wasn't just management. It was 00:21:28.690 --> 00:21:31.250 even band member hiring. That certainly adds 00:21:31.250 --> 00:21:33.690 layers to the other members feeling they'd lost 00:21:33.690 --> 00:21:35.690 control. You can see how they might feel that 00:21:35.690 --> 00:21:38.009 way. And Tate involved his biological daughter, 00:21:38.049 --> 00:21:40.950 too, musically. Emily sang a duet with him on 00:21:40.950 --> 00:21:43.390 the American Soldier album back in 2009. How 00:21:43.390 --> 00:21:45.250 old is she then? She was only 12 at the time. 00:21:45.329 --> 00:21:48.089 The song was called Home Again. So yeah, for 00:21:48.089 --> 00:21:50.230 a long time, family wasn't just part of the operation. 00:21:50.289 --> 00:21:52.950 It was deeply embedded in almost every aspect. 00:21:53.369 --> 00:21:56.569 Okay, so beyond music, beyond the band drama, 00:21:56.869 --> 00:21:59.150 what else was Tate involved in? He seems like 00:21:59.150 --> 00:22:01.089 someone with diverse interests. He definitely 00:22:01.089 --> 00:22:03.809 is. The most prominent non -musical venture, 00:22:04.009 --> 00:22:06.910 and maybe his oldest passion, is wine. Wine. 00:22:06.990 --> 00:22:09.509 Like drinking it or making it? Making it. Apparently 00:22:09.509 --> 00:22:13.430 he started super young, like age 14. 14. How? 00:22:13.650 --> 00:22:17.130 He earned a Boy Scout merit badge for making 00:22:17.130 --> 00:22:20.809 dandelion wine. No way. Dandelion wine for a 00:22:20.809 --> 00:22:22.849 Boy Scout badge. That's what the sources say. 00:22:23.069 --> 00:22:25.250 Apparently that first batch wasn't, you know, 00:22:25.250 --> 00:22:27.269 award winning, but it sparked something. The 00:22:27.269 --> 00:22:29.430 future winemaker is born via the Boy Scouts. 00:22:29.490 --> 00:22:31.690 Okay. And it wasn't just a passing phase. Yeah. 00:22:31.750 --> 00:22:34.829 As Queensrace toured the world starting way back 00:22:34.829 --> 00:22:37.740 in 83. He apparently made a point of visiting 00:22:37.740 --> 00:22:41.059 Wong regions whenever possible. France, Italy, 00:22:41.339 --> 00:22:45.539 Germany, learning about grapes, production, everything. 00:22:45.740 --> 00:22:48.240 So a serious student of it. Very serious. And 00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:50.319 eventually this led to him and his wife Susan 00:22:50.319 --> 00:22:53.420 launching their own wine brand in 2010. They 00:22:53.420 --> 00:22:55.180 have their own wine. What's it called? It's called 00:22:55.180 --> 00:22:58.039 Insania. Insania Wine. Okay. That fits the brand. 00:22:58.180 --> 00:23:00.240 Doesn't it? So a genuine passion turned into 00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:02.440 a business? Interesting. Any other ventures? 00:23:02.890 --> 00:23:05.630 film yeah he's dipped his toe in acting he actually 00:23:05.630 --> 00:23:08.369 starred in a found footage horror movie called 00:23:08.369 --> 00:23:11.430 the burning more incident starred in it yeah 00:23:11.430 --> 00:23:13.849 apparently playing both the narrator and the 00:23:13.849 --> 00:23:16.190 killer he came out in 2013 right in the middle 00:23:16.190 --> 00:23:19.190 of all the band chaos talk about timing Anything 00:23:19.190 --> 00:23:21.549 else on the film front? He's also slated to compose 00:23:21.549 --> 00:23:23.849 the musical score for an upcoming crime movie 00:23:23.849 --> 00:23:26.809 called Fallen Moon. So moving into film scoring, 00:23:26.910 --> 00:23:29.930 too. OK. And just on a personal health note, 00:23:30.009 --> 00:23:32.650 anything recent? Yes. Sources confirm he had 00:23:32.650 --> 00:23:35.390 open heart surgery in Germany back in June 2022. 00:23:35.890 --> 00:23:38.710 Wow. OK. Glad he seems to have recovered from 00:23:38.710 --> 00:23:41.329 that. Finally, there's this one little detail 00:23:41.329 --> 00:23:43.730 about his politics that caught my eye. It seems. 00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:47.799 Contradictory. Ah, yes. When asked, he's described 00:23:47.799 --> 00:23:50.440 himself as being both a libertarian and a socialist. 00:23:51.019 --> 00:23:53.079 Libertarian and socialist. How does that work? 00:23:53.259 --> 00:23:55.579 It's definitely an unusual combination, embracing 00:23:55.579 --> 00:23:58.220 individual liberty and simultaneously collective 00:23:58.220 --> 00:24:02.019 social responsibility. Well, it's complex. Maybe 00:24:02.019 --> 00:24:04.299 it reflects the contradictions of leading a big, 00:24:04.339 --> 00:24:06.460 successful, creative collective that ultimately 00:24:06.460 --> 00:24:09.579 fractured, you know. Yeah, maybe. A man of contrasts, 00:24:09.579 --> 00:24:13.049 it seems. It certainly seems that way. So wrapping 00:24:13.049 --> 00:24:15.670 this up, this deep dive has taken us from the 00:24:15.670 --> 00:24:18.269 absolute peak of progressive metal, you know, 00:24:18.269 --> 00:24:21.529 20 million albums sold globally. Incredible numbers. 00:24:21.769 --> 00:24:24.089 Right through this incredibly bitter corporate 00:24:24.089 --> 00:24:26.630 divorce. And the end point wasn't just separation. 00:24:26.910 --> 00:24:30.890 It was this really detailed legal document dictating 00:24:30.890 --> 00:24:33.490 down to the font size how an artist can talk 00:24:33.490 --> 00:24:35.410 about his own history. It's the level of control 00:24:35.410 --> 00:24:37.809 you just don't expect to see. Rarely, if ever. 00:24:38.170 --> 00:24:39.970 So what's the takeaway here for you, the listener? 00:24:40.109 --> 00:24:42.430 I think the sources clearly show how in music, 00:24:42.509 --> 00:24:44.849 especially at that level, art and commerce are 00:24:44.849 --> 00:24:47.430 deeply intertwined. Intellectual property, band 00:24:47.430 --> 00:24:50.069 names, legacy, they become corporate assets. 00:24:50.410 --> 00:24:52.809 And how those assets are managed. especially 00:24:52.809 --> 00:24:54.869 when you mix business and family so intensely. 00:24:55.089 --> 00:24:58.069 Exactly. It can create conflicts that just explode. 00:24:58.329 --> 00:25:02.069 And crucially, we saw how very specific legal 00:25:02.069 --> 00:25:05.390 language, that 50 % smaller font rule, the total 00:25:05.390 --> 00:25:07.809 ban on using the name, can literally reshape 00:25:07.809 --> 00:25:10.549 an artist's entire public identity moving forward. 00:25:10.630 --> 00:25:12.809 He was legally required to reinvent himself. 00:25:13.349 --> 00:25:15.809 And that reinvention leads us to our final thought 00:25:15.809 --> 00:25:18.380 for you today. Remember how Tate, right after 00:25:18.380 --> 00:25:20.160 losing the Queen's race name but keeping the 00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:23.519 rights to operation, Mindcrime, immediately launched 00:25:23.519 --> 00:25:26.039 that concept trilogy under the Operation Mindcrime 00:25:26.039 --> 00:25:29.000 band name. But the theme wasn't spies or revolution. 00:25:29.259 --> 00:25:32.359 It was virtual currency, internet banking, stock 00:25:32.359 --> 00:25:35.500 trading, the cold world of modern finance. So 00:25:35.500 --> 00:25:37.460 think about that choice. He takes his most famous 00:25:37.460 --> 00:25:40.039 artistic title, a symbol of rock opera and rebellion, 00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:42.420 and applies it to digital money. What does that 00:25:42.420 --> 00:25:44.259 tell you about the clash between art and commerce, 00:25:44.359 --> 00:25:46.970 maybe art versus commerce? when an artist is 00:25:46.970 --> 00:25:48.910 literally fighting a legal battle over his own 00:25:48.910 --> 00:25:51.210 name and financial future. It's a heavy symbolic 00:25:51.210 --> 00:25:53.930 load for a concept album trilogy. It really is. 00:25:54.069 --> 00:25:56.690 So here's the question for you. If you were in 00:25:56.690 --> 00:25:59.930 his shoes, forced to rebrand using the title 00:25:59.930 --> 00:26:02.410 of your greatest hit, but needing to tackle something 00:26:02.410 --> 00:26:05.910 new, what modern, maybe corporate or technological 00:26:05.910 --> 00:26:09.509 concept would you choose to explore? Interesting 00:26:09.509 --> 00:26:11.410 question. Something to chew on. That's it for 00:26:11.410 --> 00:26:12.769 this deep dive. We'll catch you on the next one.