WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.779 Welcome to the Deep Dive. This is where we really 00:00:02.779 --> 00:00:05.480 dig into all the sources on a, well, sometimes 00:00:05.480 --> 00:00:08.320 complicated, always fascinating topic. We pull 00:00:08.320 --> 00:00:10.500 out the key stuff so you walk away feeling like 00:00:10.500 --> 00:00:14.480 you truly get it. And today we are cracking open 00:00:14.480 --> 00:00:18.460 the case on Jeff Dunham, American ventriloquist, 00:00:18.519 --> 00:00:23.100 stand -up actor, one of the most successful comedians 00:00:23.100 --> 00:00:25.460 out there. Absolutely. And definitely polarizing. 00:00:25.559 --> 00:00:28.179 You know, people either seem to love him. Or 00:00:28.179 --> 00:00:29.899 not. Right. But we're going to try and focus 00:00:29.899 --> 00:00:32.659 on the whole picture today. His success is undeniable. 00:00:32.759 --> 00:00:35.119 His influence in bringing ventriloquism back, 00:00:35.259 --> 00:00:38.200 it's huge. Yeah, it really is a study in extremes, 00:00:38.380 --> 00:00:40.320 isn't it? Yeah. I mean, you look at his technique, 00:00:40.439 --> 00:00:43.200 the skill level. Yeah. It's mastery. He basically 00:00:43.200 --> 00:00:44.960 resurrected an art form that a lot of people 00:00:44.960 --> 00:00:46.759 thought was, you know, kind of dead and buried. 00:00:46.859 --> 00:00:48.299 Totally. But then you look at how he did it, 00:00:48.320 --> 00:00:50.700 those characters. Exactly. They're often, let's 00:00:50.700 --> 00:00:53.140 be frank, politically incorrect. They can be 00:00:53.140 --> 00:00:55.570 pretty insulting. They're designed, it feels 00:00:55.570 --> 00:00:58.270 like, to push buttons. And that's the real core 00:00:58.270 --> 00:01:00.130 of it, isn't it? That tension is what we need 00:01:00.130 --> 00:01:03.189 to unpack. So our mission, for you listening, 00:01:03.329 --> 00:01:06.129 is to trace that story. We're going from this 00:01:06.129 --> 00:01:09.049 kid in Texas, totally obsessed with the mechanics 00:01:09.049 --> 00:01:10.790 of ventriloquism. It's just obvious, really. 00:01:11.129 --> 00:01:14.189 Through, like, decades where nobody in the industry 00:01:14.189 --> 00:01:16.290 really got it, right? Years of obscurity, and 00:01:16.290 --> 00:01:19.230 then boom. Global superstar -filling arenas. 00:01:19.329 --> 00:01:21.510 And we have to look at how he built that empire 00:01:21.510 --> 00:01:25.890 of puppets. why they work and why that success 00:01:25.890 --> 00:01:28.469 story is just inherently tangled up with all 00:01:28.469 --> 00:01:31.109 the controversy, globally even. We really have 00:01:31.109 --> 00:01:32.769 to start with the numbers, though, just the sheer 00:01:32.769 --> 00:01:35.769 size of his success. It's hard to overstate it, 00:01:35.790 --> 00:01:37.890 especially coming from ventriloquism, which, 00:01:37.969 --> 00:01:39.989 let's face it, was not exactly setting the world 00:01:39.989 --> 00:01:42.329 on fire before him. No kidding. I mean, the scale 00:01:42.329 --> 00:01:44.790 is just wild. It's literally in the record books. 00:01:44.870 --> 00:01:47.250 Guinness World Record holder. Right. For most 00:01:47.250 --> 00:01:49.840 tickets sold for. A stand -up comedy tour. And 00:01:49.840 --> 00:01:51.840 that's not most tickets for a ventriloquist tour. 00:01:51.920 --> 00:01:53.780 It's any stand -up comedian. He sold almost 2 00:01:53.780 --> 00:02:00.019 million tickets. The number is 1 ,981 ,720 tickets 00:02:00.019 --> 00:02:04.000 across 386 venues. For one tour, the Spark of 00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:07.700 Insanity tour. That was 2007 to 2010. It's staggering. 00:02:08.120 --> 00:02:10.500 And that kind of demand. Well, it translates 00:02:10.500 --> 00:02:13.159 directly into serious money, financial clout 00:02:13.159 --> 00:02:16.180 that puts him up there with, you know, the Seinfelds, 00:02:16.180 --> 00:02:18.020 the Chris Rocks of the world. Yeah. Forbes had 00:02:18.020 --> 00:02:19.759 him ranked as the third highest paid comedian 00:02:19.759 --> 00:02:22.840 globally back in 2009, said he pulled in something 00:02:22.840 --> 00:02:25.560 like 30 million dollars that year alone. Right. 00:02:25.680 --> 00:02:27.560 So when you see figures like that, you realize, 00:02:27.719 --> 00:02:30.159 OK, this isn't just some guy with puppets. It's 00:02:30.159 --> 00:02:34.300 a global brand. built on, well, wood, plastic, 00:02:34.520 --> 00:02:37.240 and incredible technique. Okay, let's dig into 00:02:37.240 --> 00:02:39.719 that journey, because the drive, the ambition, 00:02:39.939 --> 00:02:43.159 it started incredibly early. It really did. So 00:02:43.159 --> 00:02:45.460 Jeff Dunham, born Jeffrey Douglas Dunham, Dallas, 00:02:45.639 --> 00:02:48.900 Texas, 1962. He was adopted at three months old. 00:02:49.300 --> 00:02:51.539 Howard, his dad, was a real estate appraiser. 00:02:51.699 --> 00:02:54.539 Joyce, his mom, a homemaker, raised an only child. 00:02:55.050 --> 00:02:58.050 And the sources describe it as, you know, a pretty 00:02:58.050 --> 00:03:00.830 affluent background. Yeah. And devoutly Presbyterian, 00:03:00.830 --> 00:03:02.870 quite traditional discipline. Yeah, sounds like 00:03:02.870 --> 00:03:04.870 it. And then into this kind of controlled environment 00:03:04.870 --> 00:03:08.909 comes this catalyst. The spark, yeah. And it 00:03:08.909 --> 00:03:11.250 wasn't random. It was Christmas 1970. He's eight 00:03:11.250 --> 00:03:13.780 years old. And he gets what? a dummy mortimer 00:03:13.780 --> 00:03:17.740 snurred dummy classic and this is key a how -to 00:03:17.740 --> 00:03:20.639 album to go with it for a kid like him apparently 00:03:20.639 --> 00:03:22.800 very dedicated this wasn't just a toy it was 00:03:22.800 --> 00:03:24.900 like homework he actually wanted to do right 00:03:24.900 --> 00:03:27.800 he dove right in the very next day he's down 00:03:27.800 --> 00:03:30.439 at the library checks out a how -to book on ventriloquism 00:03:30.439 --> 00:03:33.099 which he still jokes he stole yeah says he never 00:03:33.099 --> 00:03:36.419 returned ah Okay. And by fourth grade, he's already 00:03:36.419 --> 00:03:38.919 decided this isn't just going to be a hobby. 00:03:39.020 --> 00:03:41.460 No way. He set this goal. And it wasn't just, 00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:43.560 I want to be a professional ventriloquist. It 00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:46.729 was, I want to be the best one ever. Wow. At 00:03:46.729 --> 00:03:49.210 like 9 or 10 years old. Yeah, that's obsession, 00:03:49.349 --> 00:03:51.870 right? It went from childhood interest to like 00:03:51.870 --> 00:03:54.030 professional mission almost overnight. And that 00:03:54.030 --> 00:03:56.810 kind of goal requires serious dedication. Oh, 00:03:56.810 --> 00:04:00.490 absolutely. Relentless practice. Solitary practice. 00:04:00.789 --> 00:04:02.770 Hours in front of a mirror. He wasn't just working 00:04:02.770 --> 00:04:05.330 on the, you know, not moving his lips part. He 00:04:05.330 --> 00:04:08.270 was studying the greats. Edgar Bergen. The routines. 00:04:08.310 --> 00:04:11.319 The timing. And he studied that record to Jimmy 00:04:11.319 --> 00:04:13.840 Nelson's instant ventriloquism. Right. He always 00:04:13.840 --> 00:04:16.000 insists, you know, it's not magic. It's a learned 00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:18.519 skill. He compares it to juggling. Just sheer 00:04:18.519 --> 00:04:20.720 repetition until it's second nature. Exactly. 00:04:20.939 --> 00:04:23.079 So you can focus on the comedy, not the mechanics. 00:04:23.399 --> 00:04:25.399 There's something else important here, too, about 00:04:25.399 --> 00:04:28.740 his personality. The sources mentioned this solitude 00:04:28.740 --> 00:04:31.300 factor. Yeah, that's really interesting. As an 00:04:31.300 --> 00:04:34.579 only child, he apparently really grew comfortable 00:04:34.579 --> 00:04:37.279 being alone. He even called it like a warm blanket. 00:04:38.279 --> 00:04:41.459 And that comfort with being by himself, it wasn't 00:04:41.459 --> 00:04:43.720 just a personality trait. It turned out to be 00:04:43.720 --> 00:04:46.879 like fundamental training for his later career. 00:04:47.199 --> 00:04:49.480 How so? Well, think about the life of a comedian 00:04:49.480 --> 00:04:52.300 starting out, especially one touring constantly. 00:04:52.759 --> 00:04:55.939 Lonely. Long drives, cheap motels, just you and 00:04:55.939 --> 00:04:58.259 your puppets. Exactly. Yeah. And that ability 00:04:58.259 --> 00:05:00.519 he developed early on to just sit by himself 00:05:00.519 --> 00:05:03.040 for hours, work on ideas, practice technique 00:05:03.040 --> 00:05:06.410 without needing anyone else around. That became 00:05:06.410 --> 00:05:09.050 crucial when he hit the professional grind later. 00:05:09.170 --> 00:05:12.029 It prepared him for that isolation. Makes sense. 00:05:12.110 --> 00:05:14.170 And that grind, that professional part, started 00:05:14.170 --> 00:05:17.589 pretty early, too. Sixth grade, he starts going 00:05:17.589 --> 00:05:20.389 to this big ventriloquist convention. The Vent 00:05:20.389 --> 00:05:22.829 Haven Convention. Yeah, in Kentucky. It's like 00:05:22.829 --> 00:05:25.750 the big annual meetup for ventriloquists. He 00:05:25.750 --> 00:05:28.329 started going then, and apparently he's only 00:05:28.329 --> 00:05:31.800 missed one year since, back in 1977. And this 00:05:31.800 --> 00:05:33.579 is where he really starts to stand out, right? 00:05:33.660 --> 00:05:37.160 Not just a kid practicing, but actually good. 00:05:37.259 --> 00:05:39.980 Oh, yeah. He met his hero there, Jimmy Nelson. 00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:43.920 And he started competing. And he was so good, 00:05:43.939 --> 00:05:46.579 apparently. Too good. Pretty much. The organizers 00:05:46.579 --> 00:05:48.819 eventually had to declare him a retired champion. 00:05:49.540 --> 00:05:52.259 Basically, they stopped letting him compete because 00:05:52.259 --> 00:05:54.060 nobody else wanted to go up against him. They 00:05:54.060 --> 00:05:55.980 were too intimidated. That's incredible. So the 00:05:55.980 --> 00:05:58.139 community knew he was something special way before 00:05:58.139 --> 00:06:00.670 the mainstream caught on. Totally. The Vent Haven 00:06:00.670 --> 00:06:02.769 Museum even has a section dedicated to him now, 00:06:02.829 --> 00:06:05.410 right alongside the legends like Senior Wences 00:06:05.410 --> 00:06:07.750 and Edgar Bergen. That says a lot. So this early 00:06:07.750 --> 00:06:10.089 validation, it must have fueled him. He starts 00:06:10.089 --> 00:06:12.709 doing paid gigs as a teenager. Yeah, performing 00:06:12.709 --> 00:06:15.089 at school, at church, even during his summer 00:06:15.089 --> 00:06:17.670 job at Six Flags. And this is where you really 00:06:17.670 --> 00:06:20.009 start to see his signature style develop. The 00:06:20.009 --> 00:06:23.509 puppet as the shield. Exactly. He realized... 00:06:23.930 --> 00:06:26.689 He could use the puppets to say things that he, 00:06:26.829 --> 00:06:30.029 Jeff, this polite, well -raised kid, couldn't 00:06:30.029 --> 00:06:31.970 really get away with. Like making fun of people? 00:06:32.250 --> 00:06:34.370 Yeah, lampooning them. There's a story about 00:06:34.370 --> 00:06:36.470 him mocking the Dallas Cowboys quarterback, Roger 00:06:36.470 --> 00:06:39.310 Staubach, using a dummy back in middle school. 00:06:39.509 --> 00:06:42.410 The puppet could deliver the punch, the edge, 00:06:42.529 --> 00:06:44.970 that he couldn't personally. So he graduates 00:06:44.970 --> 00:06:47.810 high school in 1980, voted most likely to succeed, 00:06:48.009 --> 00:06:50.769 which is fitting. Right. And then he sets this 00:06:50.769 --> 00:06:53.720 incredibly specific goal for himself. A 10 -year 00:06:53.720 --> 00:06:56.079 deadline. Which was? An appearance on The Tonight 00:06:56.079 --> 00:06:59.120 Show starring Johnny Carson. Wow. That was the 00:06:59.120 --> 00:07:01.379 absolute pinnacle back then, right? The holy 00:07:01.379 --> 00:07:04.379 grail for comedians. Absolutely. If Carson liked 00:07:04.379 --> 00:07:06.879 you, invited you to the couch, your career could 00:07:06.879 --> 00:07:09.399 explode overnight. So how did he approach that 00:07:09.399 --> 00:07:11.899 goal? Did he just head straight for L .A.? No. 00:07:11.959 --> 00:07:14.040 Actually, he took a more measured path first. 00:07:14.199 --> 00:07:16.899 He went to Baylor University, got a communications 00:07:16.899 --> 00:07:20.459 degree, graduated in 86. But he wasn't just being 00:07:20.459 --> 00:07:24.319 a student. Not at all. College was like his day 00:07:24.319 --> 00:07:26.819 job. On weekends, he was flying all over the 00:07:26.819 --> 00:07:28.579 country doing private shows, sometimes up to 00:07:28.579 --> 00:07:30.920 100 gigs a year. Mostly corporate events. Yeah, 00:07:30.959 --> 00:07:33.300 high -paying corporate gigs. And this circuit 00:07:33.300 --> 00:07:36.040 was incredibly important. It was lucrative, for 00:07:36.040 --> 00:07:40.240 one. By his junior year, like 83, 84, he was 00:07:40.240 --> 00:07:43.160 apparently already making $70 ,000 a year. $70 00:07:43.160 --> 00:07:46.279 ,000 a year. As a college student in the early 00:07:46.279 --> 00:07:49.319 80s, that's serious money. It really was. It 00:07:49.319 --> 00:07:51.519 showed the demand for what he did, even then. 00:07:52.009 --> 00:07:54.009 High -polish entertainment for corporations. 00:07:54.410 --> 00:07:56.850 And performing for CEOs and executives must have 00:07:56.850 --> 00:07:59.189 taught him a lot, too. Definitely. He got good 00:07:59.189 --> 00:08:01.649 at handling those high -stakes audiences. The 00:08:01.649 --> 00:08:04.430 sources mention him even mocking big -shot CEOs 00:08:04.430 --> 00:08:07.670 like Jack Welch from GE during his routines. 00:08:07.910 --> 00:08:10.269 Using the puppets, presumably. Of course. That 00:08:10.269 --> 00:08:12.230 combination, the polished professional guy in 00:08:12.230 --> 00:08:13.970 the puppet saying the outrageous stuff that whole 00:08:13.970 --> 00:08:16.470 act, was really honed on that corporate circuit. 00:08:16.649 --> 00:08:18.930 Okay, so he graduates college. He's got the skills, 00:08:18.970 --> 00:08:21.449 the experience, the ambition. What's next? Broadway. 00:08:21.879 --> 00:08:26.720 Surprisingly, yes. In 1985, he actually got a 00:08:26.720 --> 00:08:29.139 break joining the Broadway show Sugar Babies. 00:08:29.220 --> 00:08:31.879 He replaced another variety act, got to work 00:08:31.879 --> 00:08:34.720 alongside huge old school stars like Mickey Rooney 00:08:34.720 --> 00:08:37.580 and Ann Miller. Whoa, that must have been a culture 00:08:37.580 --> 00:08:41.100 shock going from, you know, devout Texas upbringing 00:08:41.100 --> 00:08:45.259 and corporate gigs to Broadway. Totally. He described 00:08:45.259 --> 00:08:49.590 it as this whole new world full of... Beautiful 00:08:49.590 --> 00:08:52.370 showgirls and crusty stagehands, as the sources 00:08:52.370 --> 00:08:55.190 put it. A real crash course in the grittier side 00:08:55.190 --> 00:08:57.409 of show business. And maybe a bit of an ego check, 00:08:57.490 --> 00:08:59.850 too. Oh, definitely. There's a great story about 00:08:59.850 --> 00:09:01.570 Mickey Rooney calling him into his dressing room. 00:09:01.649 --> 00:09:03.649 Uh -oh. Yeah, Rooney basically told him flat 00:09:03.649 --> 00:09:05.870 out, Look, kid, you're only on that stage, so 00:09:05.870 --> 00:09:08.309 I have time to change my costume backstage. Ouch. 00:09:08.529 --> 00:09:10.990 Welcome to the big leagues. Pretty much. A stark 00:09:10.990 --> 00:09:12.750 reminder of the pecking order in show business. 00:09:13.009 --> 00:09:15.110 No matter how good you are, you're just scenery 00:09:15.110 --> 00:09:17.490 for the star. But... These early experiences, 00:09:17.769 --> 00:09:19.629 even the tough ones, they must have helped him 00:09:19.629 --> 00:09:22.480 adapt his material, right? Absolutely. Working 00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:24.500 with those different audiences, like on Broadway, 00:09:24.679 --> 00:09:27.379 and using characters like Jose Jalapeno on a 00:09:27.379 --> 00:09:29.419 stick, who he developed pretty early. Right, 00:09:29.519 --> 00:09:32.059 the one he made himself. Yeah. He learned fast 00:09:32.059 --> 00:09:35.399 that what killed in Dallas might completely bomb 00:09:35.399 --> 00:09:38.320 in, say, Long Island. You had to tweak the jokes, 00:09:38.419 --> 00:09:41.779 the references, regionalize the humor. That became 00:09:41.779 --> 00:09:43.799 super important later for his national tours. 00:09:44.120 --> 00:09:47.289 Okay, so Broadway regional gigs. But the real 00:09:47.289 --> 00:09:49.929 goal was stand -up comedy centered in L .A. He 00:09:49.929 --> 00:09:52.190 moved there in 88. He did. And that's where he 00:09:52.190 --> 00:09:55.649 hit a wall. Yeah. Initially, his act just bombed. 00:09:55.769 --> 00:09:58.529 Why? Was it just not funny? It wasn't just that. 00:09:58.610 --> 00:10:01.309 The L .A. comedy scene back then was really dominated 00:10:01.309 --> 00:10:04.149 by observational stand -up. You know, Seinfeld 00:10:04.149 --> 00:10:06.190 was breaking big, that whole style. Talking about 00:10:06.190 --> 00:10:08.850 everyday stuff. Exactly. And here comes Dunham 00:10:08.850 --> 00:10:12.250 with puppets. He was immediately seen as different. 00:10:12.350 --> 00:10:14.769 Not in a good way, necessarily. More like a novelty 00:10:14.769 --> 00:10:18.580 act. A prop comic. So prejudice within the comedy 00:10:18.580 --> 00:10:20.799 community itself. Yeah, definitely. Other comedians 00:10:20.799 --> 00:10:22.960 didn't really see him as a true comedian. His 00:10:22.960 --> 00:10:25.440 own manager, Judy Brown Marmel, apparently had 00:10:25.440 --> 00:10:28.159 to be really careful booking him. She would deliberately 00:10:28.159 --> 00:10:31.240 avoid using the word ventriloquist. She'd pitch 00:10:31.240 --> 00:10:33.740 him as a comedy duo just to get him stage time. 00:10:33.899 --> 00:10:36.889 Wow. That's fighting uphill. Totally. And he 00:10:36.889 --> 00:10:38.889 had experiences that really hammered that home. 00:10:39.009 --> 00:10:41.129 Like one time at the famous Catch a Rising Star 00:10:41.129 --> 00:10:44.529 Club. Yeah. The emcee just gave him zero respect. 00:10:45.129 --> 00:10:48.830 Saw him as the lowest act on the bill. Kept bumping 00:10:48.830 --> 00:10:51.710 his stage time later and later. Until Dunham 00:10:51.710 --> 00:10:53.950 finally just got fed up and left without even 00:10:53.950 --> 00:10:56.129 performing. That must have been incredibly frustrating. 00:10:56.210 --> 00:10:58.309 Just constantly feeling like your art form isn't 00:10:58.309 --> 00:11:00.789 taken seriously. Exactly. But he needed a place 00:11:00.789 --> 00:11:04.110 to work. to develop his act away from that mainstream 00:11:04.110 --> 00:11:07.350 L .A. club hostility. And he found it. Where 00:11:07.350 --> 00:11:09.590 was that? The Comedy and Magic Club down in Hermosa 00:11:09.590 --> 00:11:12.590 Beach. The owner, Mike Lacey, gave him a regular 00:11:12.590 --> 00:11:15.429 spot. Okay, so a home base. Yeah. And that was 00:11:15.429 --> 00:11:18.309 crucial. It let him watch other comedians really 00:11:18.309 --> 00:11:20.649 study guys like Seinfeld who were killing it. 00:11:20.730 --> 00:11:22.470 He got advice from people like Bill Engvall, 00:11:22.549 --> 00:11:25.129 too. And the advice was? Basically, toughen up 00:11:25.129 --> 00:11:28.210 the material. Move away from the safer, G -rated 00:11:28.210 --> 00:11:30.190 stuff he'd done for corporates and churches. 00:11:30.250 --> 00:11:33.269 Get edgier. More adult themes that would connect 00:11:33.269 --> 00:11:35.570 with those late night club crowds. And all this 00:11:35.570 --> 00:11:37.610 work, all this sharpening, it was still aimed 00:11:37.610 --> 00:11:39.769 at that one big goal, right? The Carson Show, 00:11:39.870 --> 00:11:41.889 that 10 -year deadline he set. Still driving 00:11:41.889 --> 00:11:44.649 him. Yeah. And in late 1988, it looked like it 00:11:44.649 --> 00:11:46.389 was finally going to happen. The Tonight Show 00:11:46.389 --> 00:11:48.470 talent booker, Jim McCauley, actually promised 00:11:48.470 --> 00:11:51.590 him a spot. He was this close. But there's always 00:11:51.590 --> 00:11:54.549 a but in these stories. There is. McCauley saw 00:11:54.549 --> 00:11:56.929 Dunham perform somewhere else, opening for Roseanne 00:11:56.929 --> 00:11:59.590 Barr, I think, and the day before the taping. 00:12:00.779 --> 00:12:04.639 He canceled it. No. Said Dunham was not ready. 00:12:04.720 --> 00:12:07.500 Could you imagine? Your lifelong dream snatched 00:12:07.500 --> 00:12:09.720 away at the last second. Devastating. So what 00:12:09.720 --> 00:12:12.559 did Dunham do? Give up. Not a chance. This is 00:12:12.559 --> 00:12:14.679 where that insane dedication kicks back in. Instead 00:12:14.679 --> 00:12:16.580 of changing his act or begging, he just kept 00:12:16.580 --> 00:12:19.379 showing up. He performed the exact same six -minute 00:12:19.379 --> 00:12:22.480 routine, the one with Peanut, for Macaulay. Nine 00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:24.019 different times over the next few months. The 00:12:24.019 --> 00:12:27.740 exact same routine. Nine times. Yep. Yeah. Basically 00:12:27.740 --> 00:12:30.039 saying, This is the act. It's ready. You need 00:12:30.039 --> 00:12:32.679 to be ready for it. Total refusal to back down. 00:12:32.799 --> 00:12:36.720 That takes some serious. Well, guts. Or stubbornness. 00:12:36.779 --> 00:12:40.899 Yeah. Probably both. And eventually, it worked. 00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:45.779 He got the spot. He did. April 6, 1990, he finally 00:12:45.779 --> 00:12:47.879 appeared on The Tonight Show, starring Johnny 00:12:47.879 --> 00:12:50.779 Carson. On the same show as Bob Hope and B .B. 00:12:50.799 --> 00:12:53.240 King, no less. Wow. And did he get the couch? 00:12:53.320 --> 00:12:54.940 That was the big thing, right? He got the couch. 00:12:55.139 --> 00:12:57.539 Carson invited him over after his set. That was 00:12:57.539 --> 00:12:59.799 the ultimate seal of approval. It meant Johnny 00:12:59.799 --> 00:13:02.320 saw him as more than just a variety act. He saw 00:13:02.320 --> 00:13:04.580 him as a comedian, a potential star. And then 00:13:04.580 --> 00:13:06.460 Walter made his debut there, too, right? Yeah, 00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:08.179 Walter came out swinging, took a shot straight 00:13:08.179 --> 00:13:10.559 at Ed McMahon, Carson's sidekick. Stop sending 00:13:10.559 --> 00:13:14.299 me all your damn mail. Classic Walter. So this 00:13:14.299 --> 00:13:17.009 was it. The peak. Goal achieved. Smooth sailing 00:13:17.009 --> 00:13:19.129 from here. You'd think so, wouldn't you? Yeah. 00:13:19.210 --> 00:13:21.629 But no. First, there was this immediate kind 00:13:21.629 --> 00:13:23.669 of personal friction. His parents, remember, 00:13:23.889 --> 00:13:26.830 devoutly religious. They apparently disapproved 00:13:26.830 --> 00:13:30.669 of Walter using words like hell and damn on national 00:13:30.669 --> 00:13:33.190 TV. So right away, there's that tension between 00:13:33.190 --> 00:13:35.889 his roots and where his comedy needed to go. 00:13:36.149 --> 00:13:38.850 And career -wise, did the phone start ringing 00:13:38.850 --> 00:13:42.149 off the hook? Not exactly. That's the surprising 00:13:42.149 --> 00:13:44.919 part. The sources say despite nailing the Carson 00:13:44.919 --> 00:13:48.659 appearance, he then basically toiled in obscurity 00:13:48.659 --> 00:13:52.019 for another 12 years. 12 years after Carson. 00:13:52.139 --> 00:13:54.200 Yeah. He just kept doing stand -up in clubs, 00:13:54.379 --> 00:13:56.879 hundreds of shows a year, 200 -plus sometimes. 00:13:57.220 --> 00:13:59.460 The Carson spot validated him, but it didn't 00:13:59.460 --> 00:14:01.460 magically transform his career overnight into 00:14:01.460 --> 00:14:03.519 arena tours. But he was doing something smart 00:14:03.519 --> 00:14:05.789 during that time, right? Building a fan base 00:14:05.789 --> 00:14:08.570 directly. Yes, absolutely crucial. He used those 00:14:08.570 --> 00:14:10.669 question cards that audiences filled out during 00:14:10.669 --> 00:14:12.870 his shows. He wasn't just using them for jokes. 00:14:12.929 --> 00:14:15.190 He was collecting names and addresses. Building 00:14:15.190 --> 00:14:17.889 an early fan database. Which was perfect for... 00:14:17.889 --> 00:14:20.139 The internet. When the World Wide Web started 00:14:20.139 --> 00:14:22.919 taking off, he already had this direct line to 00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:25.419 his core audience. He could email them, let them 00:14:25.419 --> 00:14:27.700 know where he was performing, sell merch directly. 00:14:28.059 --> 00:14:30.539 He kept him connected even when his TV profile 00:14:30.539 --> 00:14:33.940 dipped. Smart move because things did dip, didn't 00:14:33.940 --> 00:14:37.139 they? Mid -90s, early 2000s. Yeah, that was definitely 00:14:37.139 --> 00:14:40.039 a tough period. Fewer TV appearances, smaller 00:14:40.039 --> 00:14:43.460 crowds sometimes, and the relentless touring 00:14:43.460 --> 00:14:46.580 schedule. Being away constantly two or three 00:14:46.580 --> 00:14:49.090 weeks every month. That had to take a toll, personally. 00:14:49.350 --> 00:14:52.049 It did. The sources point to that schedule as 00:14:52.049 --> 00:14:54.289 a major factor contributing to the strain in 00:14:54.289 --> 00:14:56.690 his first marriage. He really needed another 00:14:56.690 --> 00:14:59.809 break, a way back into wider public view. And 00:14:59.809 --> 00:15:02.529 it came from an unexpected place. Sports TV? 00:15:02.830 --> 00:15:05.750 Kind of random, yeah. In 2002, he did a spot 00:15:05.750 --> 00:15:08.690 on the Best Damn Sports Show period. And he just 00:15:08.690 --> 00:15:11.409 went for it, letting Walter rip into the co -hosts, 00:15:11.409 --> 00:15:14.210 Tom Arnold, Michael Irvin, John Sally, John Croke. 00:15:14.710 --> 00:15:17.090 Risky. But it worked. It got people talking, 00:15:17.190 --> 00:15:19.370 showed he could be edgy and funny outside a traditional 00:15:19.370 --> 00:15:21.970 comedy club setting, generated some much -needed 00:15:21.970 --> 00:15:24.330 buzz. Did that lead to other opportunities? Almost 00:15:24.330 --> 00:15:27.509 a huge one. In 2003, he was apparently the frontrunner 00:15:27.509 --> 00:15:30.169 to replace Jimmy Kimmel on the Fox NFL Sunday 00:15:30.169 --> 00:15:32.370 pregame show. Wow, that would have been massive 00:15:32.370 --> 00:15:35.610 exposure. Huge. But it didn't happen. Again, 00:15:35.690 --> 00:15:37.169 it seems the whole puppet thing got in the way. 00:15:37.490 --> 00:15:40.750 Seriously, the hosts didn't like it. According 00:15:40.750 --> 00:15:43.789 to the sources, yeah. The veteran hosts, Howie 00:15:43.789 --> 00:15:47.470 Long and Terry Bradshaw, were reportedly not 00:15:47.470 --> 00:15:50.549 amenable to the idea of being upstaged by a puppet. 00:15:51.250 --> 00:15:53.929 They apparently created an unwelcoming vibe. 00:15:54.289 --> 00:15:57.809 He still felt like an outsider. Man, that prejudice 00:15:57.809 --> 00:15:59.889 just wouldn't quit, even when he finally got 00:15:59.889 --> 00:16:01.950 his own solo special on Comedy Central. Right. 00:16:02.009 --> 00:16:05.389 His Comedy Central presence in 2003, it did well, 00:16:05.490 --> 00:16:08.590 showcased Walter, Jose, Peanut, even an early 00:16:08.590 --> 00:16:10.779 version of Melvin the Superhero Guy. But the 00:16:10.779 --> 00:16:13.059 network was still hesitant. Yeah, they just didn't 00:16:13.059 --> 00:16:15.220 see him as fitting their brand at the time. They 00:16:15.220 --> 00:16:17.519 were more focused on, you know, younger alternative 00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:19.960 standups. They resisted giving him more airtime, 00:16:20.059 --> 00:16:21.879 even though the special was successful. So what 00:16:21.879 --> 00:16:23.440 did he do? Just wait for them to change their 00:16:23.440 --> 00:16:26.480 minds? Nope. He took matters into his own hands, 00:16:26.620 --> 00:16:29.759 made a massive financial gamble in 2005. Which 00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:33.200 was? He financed his own DVD, produced it himself. 00:16:34.039 --> 00:16:37.679 Jeff Dunham. Arguing with myself. That's a big 00:16:37.679 --> 00:16:39.610 risk. pouring your own money into a production 00:16:39.610 --> 00:16:43.610 like that. Huge risk. And then his manager, Judy 00:16:43.610 --> 00:16:46.809 Brown Marmel, had to basically strong -arm Comedy 00:16:46.809 --> 00:16:49.750 Central into airing it. She argued, look, this 00:16:49.750 --> 00:16:51.509 guy sells tickets, he sells merchandise, the 00:16:51.509 --> 00:16:53.549 audience is there, you need him. Did they buy 00:16:53.549 --> 00:16:56.330 it? Eventually. They aired Arguing With Myself 00:16:56.330 --> 00:17:00.769 late in 2006. And it exploded. How big? Two million 00:17:00.769 --> 00:17:03.289 viewers right off the bat. And it sold two million 00:17:03.289 --> 00:17:06.799 Doody D's. Instantly. Wow. Okay. That kind of 00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:10.000 immediate, massive success. He completely validated 00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:12.779 Dunham and his manager. It basically forced Comedy 00:17:12.779 --> 00:17:15.240 Central to realize they had a potential phenomenon 00:17:15.240 --> 00:17:17.559 on their hands. Whether he fit their old brand 00:17:17.559 --> 00:17:20.140 or not, he was making them money. Lots of it. 00:17:20.180 --> 00:17:21.839 And that really opened the floodgates, didn't 00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:24.539 it? That led to the next phase, global stardom. 00:17:24.599 --> 00:17:26.680 Absolutely. Once Comedy Central was fully on 00:17:26.680 --> 00:17:29.319 board, things just took off astronomically. His 00:17:29.319 --> 00:17:32.079 next special, Jeff Dunham. Spark of Insanity. 00:17:32.099 --> 00:17:34.819 In 2007, that was the one. That cemented everything. 00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:37.420 Pretty much. And crucially, it introduced the 00:17:37.420 --> 00:17:39.440 character that would become his most famous and 00:17:39.440 --> 00:17:41.180 definitely his most controversial. Achmed the 00:17:41.180 --> 00:17:44.339 Dead Terrorist. Bingo. And the way Achmed broke 00:17:44.339 --> 00:17:46.839 through was kind of new territory back then. 00:17:46.880 --> 00:17:49.579 Viral, right? On YouTube. Exactly. A clip from 00:17:49.579 --> 00:17:51.559 Spark of Insanity featuring Achmed just went 00:17:51.559 --> 00:17:54.640 completely ballistic online. We're talking over 00:17:54.640 --> 00:17:58.779 140 million views by 2009. That made it like 00:17:58.779 --> 00:18:01.759 the ninth most watched video on all of YouTube 00:18:01.759 --> 00:18:04.160 at the time. Incredible. And that online buzz 00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:06.339 translated into real world demand. Oh, yeah. 00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:09.720 That viral fame directly fueled the record breaking 00:18:09.720 --> 00:18:12.299 tour we talked about earlier. The Spark of Insanity 00:18:12.299 --> 00:18:15.059 tour. Nearly two million tickets sold worldwide. 00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:17.720 The records just kept piling up after that. They 00:18:17.720 --> 00:18:20.730 did. 2008, he does Jeff Dunham's very special 00:18:20.730 --> 00:18:23.430 Christmas special. So it's another record. Highest 00:18:23.430 --> 00:18:25.309 rated show ever in Comedy Central history at 00:18:25.309 --> 00:18:28.049 that point. 6 .6 million viewers. Wow. And the 00:18:28.049 --> 00:18:30.769 DVD sales? Sold over 400 ,000 copies in just 00:18:30.769 --> 00:18:32.809 the first two weeks. That special also had that 00:18:32.809 --> 00:18:35.589 Octant song. Jingle Bombs. Controversial, but 00:18:35.589 --> 00:18:38.289 undeniably popular. That's the Dunham story in 00:18:38.289 --> 00:18:40.750 a nutshell, isn't it? Yeah. So by late 2008, 00:18:41.029 --> 00:18:42.910 he's not playing clubs anymore. He's in arenas. 00:18:43.089 --> 00:18:45.710 Tens of thousands of people. Right. And that 00:18:45.710 --> 00:18:47.980 required a whole... Different approach of performing. 00:18:48.220 --> 00:18:50.140 He actually had to adjust his timing. How do 00:18:50.140 --> 00:18:53.720 you mean? Well, his act relies on those super 00:18:53.720 --> 00:18:55.680 fast back and forth exchanges with the puppets. 00:18:56.299 --> 00:18:58.980 In an arena, the sound takes time to travel. 00:18:59.220 --> 00:19:01.819 People way in the back hear the joke later than 00:19:01.819 --> 00:19:04.740 people up front. Ah, so the laughs would be staggered. 00:19:04.779 --> 00:19:07.640 Exactly. So he had to learn to deliberately slow 00:19:07.640 --> 00:19:11.099 down those exchanges, leave slightly longer pauses 00:19:11.099 --> 00:19:12.720 so the sound could reach everyone, they could 00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:15.039 process the joke, and the laugh would hit all 00:19:15.039 --> 00:19:17.450 at once across the whole arena. It's a technical 00:19:17.450 --> 00:19:19.569 adjustment you wouldn't even think about. Fascinating. 00:19:19.670 --> 00:19:23.230 So, Arena's record -breaking specials. The next 00:19:23.230 --> 00:19:26.210 logical step seemed to be his own TV show. Yeah. 00:19:26.289 --> 00:19:28.950 The Jeff Dunham Show premiered on Comedy Central 00:19:28.950 --> 00:19:32.230 in 2009. And guess what? Record -breaking premiere. 00:19:32.490 --> 00:19:35.230 You got it. Most watched premiere in the network's 00:19:35.230 --> 00:19:39.109 history. But it didn't last. Why not? What happened? 00:19:39.390 --> 00:19:41.450 It seems the format just didn't quite work for 00:19:41.450 --> 00:19:44.410 his style. The critics mostly panned it. The 00:19:44.410 --> 00:19:45.970 ratings dropped off pretty quickly after the 00:19:45.970 --> 00:19:48.150 premiere. And apparently it was really expensive 00:19:48.150 --> 00:19:51.230 to produce. So canceled after one season. Yeah. 00:19:51.789 --> 00:19:54.450 It seemed like those big, high -energy, one -off 00:19:54.450 --> 00:19:57.470 specials were a much better fit for him than 00:19:57.470 --> 00:19:59.809 a weekly sitcom -style show. But that didn't 00:19:59.809 --> 00:20:01.930 really slow down his overall momentum, did it? 00:20:01.930 --> 00:20:03.990 He kept touring, kept putting out specials. Not 00:20:03.990 --> 00:20:05.869 at all. He followed up with Controlled Chaos 00:20:05.869 --> 00:20:08.230 that one pulled in like 8 .3 million viewers. 00:20:08.829 --> 00:20:11.589 Then... All over the map, which was really interesting, 00:20:11.690 --> 00:20:14.470 they taped it during performances on five different 00:20:14.470 --> 00:20:16.970 continents. Really showcasing that global reach. 00:20:17.210 --> 00:20:20.450 Totally. And he got other accolades, too. A star 00:20:20.450 --> 00:20:23.329 on the Hollywood Walk of Fame in 2017. He started 00:20:23.329 --> 00:20:25.849 doing more film and TV roles, too. Popped up 00:20:25.849 --> 00:20:27.970 in Dinner for Schmucks. With a new puppet, Diane, 00:20:28.210 --> 00:20:30.539 right? Yeah. And he did cameos on shows like 00:20:30.539 --> 00:20:32.720 30 Rock. Brought Bubba J along for that one. 00:20:32.839 --> 00:20:34.500 Okay, let's dive into the characters themselves 00:20:34.500 --> 00:20:36.880 because they are the absolute engine driving 00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:39.220 this whole thing. They really are. Time magazine 00:20:39.220 --> 00:20:42.079 had a great description of his style. They called 00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:44.839 the characters politically incorrect, gratuitously 00:20:44.839 --> 00:20:48.079 insulting, and ill -tempered. Sounds about right. 00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:51.519 And they called Dunham himself a dressed -down, 00:20:51.539 --> 00:20:54.259 more digestible version of Don Rickles with multiple 00:20:54.259 --> 00:20:56.880 personality disorder, which is pretty sharp. 00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:00.299 Yeah. But they also credited him, rightly, with 00:21:00.299 --> 00:21:02.559 doing more to promote ventriloquism than anyone 00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:05.339 since Edgar Bergen. Which is undeniable. So the 00:21:05.339 --> 00:21:08.000 core characters. Let's start with the original 00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:11.299 grumpy old man, Walter. Arms always crossed, 00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:15.359 always complaining. Right. Dunham actually sculpted 00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:18.380 Walter himself. And he apparently patterned that 00:21:18.380 --> 00:21:21.119 iconic frown on his own face when he frowns. 00:21:21.140 --> 00:21:23.779 Huh. Interesting. And the personality, where 00:21:23.779 --> 00:21:25.559 did that come from? He said he was inspired by 00:21:25.559 --> 00:21:28.190 watching Bette Davis on Carson. Just her total 00:21:28.190 --> 00:21:30.490 lack of filter, that unfiltered candor. That's 00:21:30.490 --> 00:21:32.990 Walter. He's the ultimate cynic, right? Vietnam 00:21:32.990 --> 00:21:36.170 vet, former welder, just angry at the world. 00:21:36.190 --> 00:21:37.910 Pretty much. His whole comedy comes from being 00:21:37.910 --> 00:21:40.650 sarcastic, negative, refusing to be happy. Like 00:21:40.650 --> 00:21:42.589 that classic joke about his marriage. The happiest 00:21:42.589 --> 00:21:45.029 moment. Yeah. Happiest moment of his 46 -year 00:21:45.029 --> 00:21:48.710 marriage. 47 years ago. Perfect Walter. Okay. 00:21:48.750 --> 00:21:50.670 Then there's Peanut. Totally different energy. 00:21:50.970 --> 00:21:53.910 Complete opposite. Hyperactive, purple -skinned 00:21:53.910 --> 00:21:57.789 thing. He calls himself a woozle. Green hair, 00:21:57.910 --> 00:22:02.190 one sneaker. Just pure chaos. Exactly. And Peanut's 00:22:02.190 --> 00:22:04.349 humor isn't based on a stereotype like some of 00:22:04.349 --> 00:22:07.410 the others. He's just the bad kid. Yeah. High 00:22:07.410 --> 00:22:09.789 energy, always bouncing off the walls, usually 00:22:09.789 --> 00:22:12.170 making fun of Jose. And he has that great metal 00:22:12.170 --> 00:22:14.789 line, right? Asking Dunham how he came up with 00:22:14.789 --> 00:22:17.450 him without drugs. Yeah. Then how the hell did 00:22:17.450 --> 00:22:20.819 you come up with me? Kind of acknowledges the 00:22:20.819 --> 00:22:23.339 absurdity of the whole thing. Peanut claims he's 00:22:23.339 --> 00:22:24.920 from Micronesia, but it doesn't really matter. 00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:27.099 He's just this force of disruptive energy. And 00:22:27.099 --> 00:22:30.500 Jose, jalapeno, on a stick. On a stick. Can't 00:22:30.500 --> 00:22:32.400 forget that part. The talking jalapeno pepper, 00:22:32.500 --> 00:22:34.579 little sombrero, thick accent. And he was the 00:22:34.579 --> 00:22:37.000 first one Dunham actually made himself. That's 00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:38.859 right. Which makes him pretty significant. He's 00:22:38.859 --> 00:22:41.299 usually the quiet foil to Peanut's craziness. 00:22:41.500 --> 00:22:43.599 And Peanut never lets him forget he's... On a 00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:46.059 stick, yeah. Then you've got Bubba J. The redneck 00:22:46.059 --> 00:22:49.750 stereotype. Beer, NASCAR. Pretty much. Used for 00:22:49.750 --> 00:22:52.569 all the white trash or trailer park humor, low 00:22:52.569 --> 00:22:54.589 intelligence jokes, that kind of thing. Dunham 00:22:54.589 --> 00:22:56.690 actually said Bubba J was inspired by one of 00:22:56.690 --> 00:22:58.869 Edgar Bergen's characters, Mortimer Snurd. Ah, 00:22:59.069 --> 00:23:01.390 okay. And Bubba J's got those classic lines about 00:23:01.390 --> 00:23:03.490 meeting his wife at the family reunion. Leaning 00:23:03.490 --> 00:23:06.009 against a Ferris wheel with a corndog and a beer. 00:23:06.170 --> 00:23:09.710 Yeah. Yeah. He perfectly embodies that specific 00:23:09.710 --> 00:23:12.950 cultural caricature. Okay. And now exit Achmed. 00:23:13.029 --> 00:23:17.240 The lightning rod. Yeah. Achmed. The dead terrorist. 00:23:17.859 --> 00:23:22.500 The skeletal corpse of a suicide bomber who wasn't 00:23:22.500 --> 00:23:25.140 very good at his job. Hence the dead part. Due 00:23:25.140 --> 00:23:27.700 to premature detonation, as he says. Right. And 00:23:27.700 --> 00:23:30.380 his catchphrase? Silence! I kill you! Became 00:23:30.380 --> 00:23:33.000 huge. Absolutely huge. He was designed, Dunham 00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:35.819 says, to satirize terrorism through incompetence 00:23:35.819 --> 00:23:37.940 and absurdity. Make it seem ridiculous, not just 00:23:37.940 --> 00:23:40.279 scary. But extremely controversial. Oh, massively. 00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:42.559 But Dunham built in a defense. Sort of. He has 00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:44.579 Ackman deny being Muslim. Right. The look at 00:23:44.579 --> 00:23:48.230 my ass, it says, made in China line. Exactly. 00:23:48.289 --> 00:23:51.730 Trying to position him as this generic, absurd 00:23:51.730 --> 00:23:54.970 figure of terror, not a specific religious or 00:23:54.970 --> 00:23:57.549 ethnic commentary. Didn't always work, but that 00:23:57.549 --> 00:23:59.910 was the intent. Ahmed even got his own animated 00:23:59.910 --> 00:24:02.630 movie eventually, Ahmed Saves America. The cast 00:24:02.630 --> 00:24:05.369 keeps going, though. There's Sweet Daddy D. Right. 00:24:05.549 --> 00:24:08.009 The pimp. Although he insists it means player 00:24:08.009 --> 00:24:10.450 in the management profession. Uh -huh. And Jeff 00:24:10.450 --> 00:24:12.170 is the hoe. Because he makes people laugh and 00:24:12.170 --> 00:24:15.690 feel good. Yeah. He's sort of this parody of 00:24:15.690 --> 00:24:19.170 a slick, slightly outdated manager type. Hates 00:24:19.170 --> 00:24:21.690 NASCAR, naturally. And Melvin the superhero guy. 00:24:21.869 --> 00:24:24.549 Melvin. He's there to poke fun at the whole superhero 00:24:24.549 --> 00:24:27.390 craze. Claims he has x -ray vision. I love looking 00:24:27.390 --> 00:24:30.259 at boobies. Right. but otherwise completely powerless, 00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:32.859 can only fly as far as Jeff can throw him. And 00:24:32.859 --> 00:24:35.039 he makes jokes about other heroes. Yes, as the 00:24:35.039 --> 00:24:37.259 Flash must be on meth, the Hulk is like every 00:24:37.259 --> 00:24:40.160 guy on Cop PS, just bringing superheroes down 00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:43.140 to a mundane, slightly trashy level. And the 00:24:43.140 --> 00:24:45.400 lineup keeps evolving, right? He adds new characters. 00:24:45.700 --> 00:24:48.660 He does. More recently, there was Seamus. The 00:24:48.660 --> 00:24:51.700 Irish baby. Yeah. From the special filmed in 00:24:51.700 --> 00:24:54.640 Ireland. That's the one. Grumpy beer -drinking 00:24:54.640 --> 00:24:57.680 baby. Used for Irish stereotype jokes, but also, 00:24:57.759 --> 00:25:01.079 interestingly, to comment on the 2016 U .S. election 00:25:01.079 --> 00:25:03.480 candidates. And the newest one, Earl. Yeah, Earl. 00:25:04.140 --> 00:25:07.420 Introduced in 2022. He's basically the stereotype 00:25:07.420 --> 00:25:09.880 of a young person totally glued to their phone, 00:25:09.980 --> 00:25:11.960 living in their parents' basement. Tapping into 00:25:11.960 --> 00:25:14.640 current anxieties about screen time and, you 00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:17.799 know, kids today. Exactly. Dunham said everyone 00:25:17.799 --> 00:25:19.619 can relate to being stuck on their devices too 00:25:19.619 --> 00:25:22.160 much, so Earl reflects that contemporary issue. 00:25:22.589 --> 00:25:25.089 Okay, so we have this whole ensemble cast, wildly 00:25:25.089 --> 00:25:27.569 popular, but we have to talk about the controversy. 00:25:27.789 --> 00:25:30.109 It's unavoidable. Absolutely central to his story. 00:25:30.569 --> 00:25:33.390 Critics, like Randy Dawn, have explicitly accused 00:25:33.390 --> 00:25:36.450 the characters of being racist caricatures. Sexist, 00:25:36.450 --> 00:25:38.650 homophobic, too. That's the core criticism. And 00:25:38.650 --> 00:25:40.130 it's not just critics writing articles. It's 00:25:40.130 --> 00:25:42.930 had real -world impacts, like censorship. Definitely. 00:25:42.970 --> 00:25:46.609 Back in 2008, South Africa banned a TV commercial 00:25:46.609 --> 00:25:49.690 that featured Ahmed. A complaint was filed saying 00:25:49.690 --> 00:25:52.089 it was offensive to Muslims, that it painted 00:25:52.089 --> 00:25:55.329 all Muslims as terrorists. The Advertising Standards 00:25:55.329 --> 00:25:57.849 Authority there agreed, noting that even the 00:25:57.849 --> 00:26:00.509 name Ahmed is Arab, regardless of what the puppet 00:26:00.509 --> 00:26:03.609 says in the act. So how does Dunham respond to 00:26:03.609 --> 00:26:06.190 that kind of accusation, that kind of action? 00:26:06.589 --> 00:26:08.990 His defense is pretty consistent. It's basically 00:26:08.990 --> 00:26:11.430 rooted in free speech for comedy. He counters 00:26:11.430 --> 00:26:13.529 by saying he makes fun of everyone. He listed 00:26:13.529 --> 00:26:16.410 them off, right? Yeah. Quote, I've skewered whites. 00:26:16.920 --> 00:26:20.019 Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Christians, Jews, 00:26:20.380 --> 00:26:23.920 Muslims, gays, straights, rednecks, addicts, 00:26:23.920 --> 00:26:26.660 the elderly, and my wife. Covering all bases 00:26:26.660 --> 00:26:29.220 there. His argument is, look, I'm a stand -up 00:26:29.220 --> 00:26:31.440 comic. My job is to make the majority of people 00:26:31.440 --> 00:26:34.579 laugh. And he believes comedy is, or should be, 00:26:34.740 --> 00:26:37.880 the last true form of free speech. Did he ever 00:26:37.880 --> 00:26:40.519 actually consider changing off -med? He joked 00:26:40.519 --> 00:26:42.880 about renaming him Bill. Just to get around the 00:26:42.880 --> 00:26:45.019 name issue, which kind of highlights his frustration 00:26:45.019 --> 00:26:47.019 with being told who he can and can't make fun 00:26:47.019 --> 00:26:48.799 of. But it's interesting. While he claims to 00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:51.480 target everyone equally, he did admit to being 00:26:51.480 --> 00:26:53.980 maybe a bit more careful with one group. Yeah, 00:26:54.039 --> 00:26:56.559 he conceded he's particularly sensitive when 00:26:56.559 --> 00:26:58.779 it comes to the conservative country crowd or 00:26:58.779 --> 00:27:01.539 people with basic Christian values. Why them 00:27:01.539 --> 00:27:03.400 specifically? Well, partly because they form 00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:05.880 a huge chunk of his audience and partly maybe 00:27:05.880 --> 00:27:08.990 because it reflects his own upbringing. So there 00:27:08.990 --> 00:27:11.650 seems to be a line between potentially offending 00:27:11.650 --> 00:27:14.809 a group and actively alienating his core fan 00:27:14.809 --> 00:27:17.170 base. That balancing act came up again internationally, 00:27:17.390 --> 00:27:20.829 didn't it, in Malaysia? It did. In 2014, he was 00:27:20.829 --> 00:27:22.890 scheduled to perform there, but the government 00:27:22.890 --> 00:27:25.670 stepped in. They requested that Ahmed specifically 00:27:25.670 --> 00:27:29.890 not be used or even named due to local sensitivities 00:27:29.890 --> 00:27:32.990 about terrorism portrayal. So did he just cut 00:27:32.990 --> 00:27:36.009 Ahmed from the show? No, he adapted. This is 00:27:36.009 --> 00:27:38.450 fascinating. For that one show in Malaysia, Ahmed 00:27:38.450 --> 00:27:41.430 became Jacques Merde, the dead French terrorist. 00:27:41.750 --> 00:27:44.490 Jacques Merde, as in? Jacques Chit, literally. 00:27:44.789 --> 00:27:47.309 So he kept the core concept, the dead terrorist, 00:27:47.450 --> 00:27:50.029 kept the edginess, but shifted the cultural target 00:27:50.029 --> 00:27:52.789 just enough to satisfy the censors. It's a pretty 00:27:52.789 --> 00:27:54.670 clever workaround for direct government interference. 00:27:55.289 --> 00:27:59.069 Wow. Navigating global sensitivities with puppet 00:27:59.069 --> 00:28:03.500 name changes. OK, let's shift focus slightly. 00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:05.819 We've talked about the performer, the characters, 00:28:05.900 --> 00:28:08.019 the controversy. What about the man himself, 00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:10.900 his personal life? Well, behind the loud stage 00:28:10.900 --> 00:28:13.359 persona, the sources paint a picture of someone, 00:28:13.460 --> 00:28:16.579 again, very dedicated, very meticulous. But his 00:28:16.579 --> 00:28:18.759 personal life was definitely impacted by that 00:28:18.759 --> 00:28:21.160 relentless career path. His first marriage to 00:28:21.160 --> 00:28:24.299 Paige Brown. They married in 94. Yeah. He adopted 00:28:24.299 --> 00:28:26.319 her daughter, Bree, and they had two more daughters 00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:30.079 together, Ashlyn and Kenna. But that insane touring 00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:32.559 schedule we talked about. Away two or three weeks 00:28:32.559 --> 00:28:34.579 every month. Exactly. The sources are pretty 00:28:34.579 --> 00:28:36.480 clear that put an immense strain on the marriage. 00:28:36.680 --> 00:28:39.440 He filed for divorce in 2008, right when his 00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:41.299 career was hitting that massive peak after the 00:28:41.299 --> 00:28:43.680 specials took off. Timing is rough there. He 00:28:43.680 --> 00:28:46.619 remarried later. Yes. In 2012, he married Audrey 00:28:46.619 --> 00:28:49.220 Murdoch. She's a certified nutritionist, personal 00:28:49.220 --> 00:28:51.579 trainer, even a competition bodybuilder. Wow. 00:28:51.980 --> 00:28:54.150 Different world. Yeah. And they had twin boys 00:28:54.150 --> 00:28:56.970 together in 2015, James Jeffrey and Jack Stephen. 00:28:57.170 --> 00:28:59.549 So that brings his total number of kids to five. 00:28:59.869 --> 00:29:02.269 Now, his hobbies are interesting, too. They seem 00:29:02.269 --> 00:29:04.869 to echo that same intense dedication we see in 00:29:04.869 --> 00:29:07.170 his work. They really do. It's not just golf 00:29:07.170 --> 00:29:09.470 or something. He builds his own dummies, obviously, 00:29:09.630 --> 00:29:12.170 the current ones. But he also restores antique 00:29:12.170 --> 00:29:14.609 dummies. It's like museum pieces. Pretty much. 00:29:14.650 --> 00:29:17.029 It's more than just collecting. It involves really 00:29:17.029 --> 00:29:19.650 detailed engineering, understanding the history. 00:29:19.809 --> 00:29:22.900 There was one amazing project mentioned. The 00:29:22.900 --> 00:29:25.759 umpire. The umpire. What was that? It was this 00:29:25.759 --> 00:29:29.380 huge six foot tall mechanized dummy built way 00:29:29.380 --> 00:29:32.599 back in 1941. It was designed to call balls and 00:29:32.599 --> 00:29:35.000 strikes at a girls softball game. You're kidding. 00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:37.839 Nope. Apparently it was built, never used, packed 00:29:37.839 --> 00:29:40.940 away for 50 years. Dunham got hold of it in 2008 00:29:40.940 --> 00:29:43.380 and actually restored it back to full working 00:29:43.380 --> 00:29:46.259 condition. That takes incredible patience and 00:29:46.259 --> 00:29:48.480 technical skill. Same stuff needed for ventriloquism, 00:29:48.500 --> 00:29:51.200 really. Exactly. That meticulous technical mastery. 00:29:51.319 --> 00:29:53.640 But then. There's the other side of his hobbies. 00:29:53.759 --> 00:29:57.460 The fast stuff. Right. Helicopters. Yeah, he 00:29:57.460 --> 00:29:59.619 apparently loved helicopters since he was a kid. 00:29:59.980 --> 00:30:02.640 But he doesn't just fly them. He builds them. 00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:05.140 His own kid helicopters from a company called 00:30:05.140 --> 00:30:08.720 Rotorway. He's built at least four himself. Building 00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:12.539 your own helicopter. That requires a staggering 00:30:12.539 --> 00:30:16.160 amount of precision. And nerf. Totally. Again, 00:30:16.200 --> 00:30:18.799 it's that focus on complex mechanics, attention 00:30:18.799 --> 00:30:21.559 to detail, taking control of the whole process. 00:30:21.779 --> 00:30:24.619 Seems to fit the personality, right? Mastering 00:30:24.619 --> 00:30:26.380 something difficult and maybe a little overlooked. 00:30:26.619 --> 00:30:29.460 And then there's the Batmobile. Ah, yes. The 00:30:29.460 --> 00:30:32.140 ultimate prop. He owns the original Batmobile 00:30:32.140 --> 00:30:34.500 from the Tim Burton Batman movie. The Michael 00:30:34.500 --> 00:30:37.200 Keaton one. That's the one. But just owning it 00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:39.140 wasn't enough for him, apparently. Being the 00:30:39.140 --> 00:30:41.500 gearhead he is. He modified it. Put a Corvette 00:30:41.500 --> 00:30:44.019 engine in it. made it fully street legal, so 00:30:44.019 --> 00:30:46.480 he can actually drive the Batmobile around. Okay, 00:30:46.539 --> 00:30:48.359 that's pretty cool. Yeah, he's also into muscle 00:30:48.359 --> 00:30:51.180 cars in general. And maybe less surprisingly, 00:30:51.279 --> 00:30:53.680 given his polished image, he's a big fan of Apple 00:30:53.680 --> 00:30:56.119 products. So whether it's restoring an antique 00:30:56.119 --> 00:30:58.980 puppet, building a helicopter from a kit, or 00:30:58.980 --> 00:31:01.769 hot -rodding the Batmobile. There's a pattern. 00:31:01.970 --> 00:31:04.309 Definitely. Yeah. It all comes back to this deep 00:31:04.309 --> 00:31:07.829 interest in meticulous engineering, complex systems, 00:31:07.890 --> 00:31:10.789 and having total control over the details. Okay, 00:31:10.849 --> 00:31:12.869 so let's try and bring this all together. We 00:31:12.869 --> 00:31:15.170 followed the whole path. Eight -year -old kid 00:31:15.170 --> 00:31:17.789 gets a dummy for Christmas, sets this almost 00:31:17.789 --> 00:31:21.349 impossible goal. Spends years, decades, really, 00:31:21.390 --> 00:31:24.650 grinding it out, facing rejection from the comedy 00:31:24.650 --> 00:31:26.789 establishment, from networks. Who just didn't 00:31:26.789 --> 00:31:28.890 get it, didn't respect the art form. Right. And 00:31:28.890 --> 00:31:31.529 then... He figures out how to use the new media 00:31:31.529 --> 00:31:35.589 landscape, viral videos, DVDs, direct fan contact, 00:31:35.809 --> 00:31:37.970 combines it with some savvy financial risk. And 00:31:37.970 --> 00:31:40.390 builds this absolute empire. Record -breaking 00:31:40.390 --> 00:31:43.170 tours, massive specials, a global phenomenon. 00:31:43.509 --> 00:31:45.589 He didn't just revive introloquism, he completely 00:31:45.589 --> 00:31:47.849 redefined it for the modern era. He took it out 00:31:47.849 --> 00:31:49.779 of the, you know... family -friendly variety 00:31:49.779 --> 00:31:52.039 showbiz. And injected it with this aggressive, 00:31:52.259 --> 00:31:54.559 often offensive, definitely politically incorrect 00:31:54.559 --> 00:31:57.920 edge. An edge that clearly resonates with a huge 00:31:57.920 --> 00:32:00.299 global audience. Maybe an audience that felt 00:32:00.299 --> 00:32:02.819 overlooked by more mainstream comedy. Which brings 00:32:02.819 --> 00:32:05.460 us right back to that core contradiction. The 00:32:05.460 --> 00:32:08.680 success versus the controversy. Given all the 00:32:08.680 --> 00:32:11.799 criticism, the accusations of racism, sexism, 00:32:11.920 --> 00:32:14.259 given the actual censorship attempts we talked 00:32:14.259 --> 00:32:16.559 about. South Africa, Malaysia. Right. What does 00:32:16.559 --> 00:32:19.240 his unbelievable level of success actually tell 00:32:19.240 --> 00:32:21.599 us about comedy, about audiences, about free 00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:23.700 speech? It really makes you think, doesn't it? 00:32:23.720 --> 00:32:26.220 It poses a fascinating question about, like, 00:32:26.259 --> 00:32:29.460 comedic shields. When a regular stand -up tells 00:32:29.460 --> 00:32:31.819 a joke, they own it completely. The backlash, 00:32:32.059 --> 00:32:34.039 the laughs, it's all on them. But with Dunham, 00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:37.380 there's Walter, there's Ahmed, there's Peanut. 00:32:37.789 --> 00:32:41.670 Exactly. Does the puppet act as this unique kind 00:32:41.670 --> 00:32:44.970 of buffer? Does it allow him, and maybe the audience 00:32:44.970 --> 00:32:47.869 too, to explore topics, push boundaries, laugh 00:32:47.869 --> 00:32:49.670 at things that would be way more uncomfortable, 00:32:49.769 --> 00:32:52.049 maybe even unacceptable, coming directly from 00:32:52.049 --> 00:32:54.130 the comedian himself? Are the puppets a shield 00:32:54.130 --> 00:32:56.789 for testing the limits? It seems plausible. His 00:32:56.789 --> 00:32:59.369 sales figures, those millions of tickets and 00:32:59.369 --> 00:33:02.369 DVDs worldwide, they suggest that for a huge 00:33:02.369 --> 00:33:04.990 number of people, the answer is yes. The puppet 00:33:04.990 --> 00:33:07.789 creates this distance, this filter. Yeah, like 00:33:07.789 --> 00:33:10.109 an acceptable layer between the offensive joke 00:33:10.109 --> 00:33:12.849 and the person telling it. It lets the audience 00:33:12.849 --> 00:33:16.029 engage with the controversy, laugh at the incorrect 00:33:16.029 --> 00:33:18.430 humor without maybe feeling like they're fully 00:33:18.430 --> 00:33:21.009 endorsing the sentiment behind it. It's a strange 00:33:21.009 --> 00:33:23.109 kind of transaction, isn't it? An intellectual, 00:33:23.230 --> 00:33:25.630 emotional thing that's really unique to ventriloquism, 00:33:25.670 --> 00:33:28.210 especially the way Dunham does it. And maybe 00:33:28.210 --> 00:33:30.710 that calculated distance, that separation between 00:33:30.710 --> 00:33:33.109 the master and the dummy saying the outrageous 00:33:33.109 --> 00:33:36.650 thing. Maybe that's his ultimate legacy. It's 00:33:36.650 --> 00:33:38.069 definitely something to keep thinking about. 00:33:38.210 --> 00:33:41.210 Yeah. For you listening, where is that line between 00:33:41.210 --> 00:33:43.730 the comedian, the character they create, and 00:33:43.730 --> 00:33:46.250 the consequences of what's said? And why does 00:33:46.250 --> 00:33:49.190 a talking skeleton or a grumpy old man made of 00:33:49.190 --> 00:33:52.089 wood get away with so much more than the guy 00:33:52.089 --> 00:33:54.650 whose hand is literally up its back? That's the 00:33:54.650 --> 00:33:56.630 power and the paradox of the puppet master.