WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.299 Welcome back to the Deep Dive. Today we're jumping 00:00:02.299 --> 00:00:04.160 into something really interesting. We're going 00:00:04.160 --> 00:00:08.380 to try and map the career, the whole arc of someone 00:00:08.380 --> 00:00:11.359 truly unique in entertainment. We're talking 00:00:11.359 --> 00:00:14.140 about... The American actress and comedian Molly 00:00:14.140 --> 00:00:17.379 Shannon. Yes. And she's fascinating because her 00:00:17.379 --> 00:00:20.859 career just refuses to sit in one box, doesn't 00:00:20.859 --> 00:00:23.000 it? Exactly. It goes all the way from that, you 00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:25.620 know, high energy, totally physical, sometimes 00:00:25.620 --> 00:00:28.359 absurd stuff on Saturday Night Live. Right. The 00:00:28.359 --> 00:00:31.120 stuff everyone knows. To these really nuanced, 00:00:31.320 --> 00:00:33.979 critically acclaimed and honestly. Sometimes 00:00:33.979 --> 00:00:36.619 heartbreaking, dramatic roles she's just nailing 00:00:36.619 --> 00:00:38.859 today. That's absolutely the mission here because 00:00:38.859 --> 00:00:41.179 for so many people listening, you hear Molly 00:00:41.179 --> 00:00:42.979 Shannon, you probably picture Mary Catherine 00:00:42.979 --> 00:00:45.979 Gallagher or Sally O'Malley. Yeah, icons, total 00:00:45.979 --> 00:00:49.200 icons of 90s, early 2000s comedy. For sure. But 00:00:49.200 --> 00:00:51.179 what we want to do is go a bit deeper than, you 00:00:51.179 --> 00:00:54.060 know, the tight red pants or that superstar desperation. 00:00:54.500 --> 00:00:58.039 We want to synthesize this huge career and really 00:00:58.039 --> 00:01:00.020 focus on the biographical stuff, the things that 00:01:00.020 --> 00:01:02.439 happen early on that kind of explain everything 00:01:02.439 --> 00:01:04.859 else. We're looking for those surprising links, 00:01:04.980 --> 00:01:07.680 right? How does someone who's a master of, like, 00:01:07.719 --> 00:01:11.680 manic performance become this anchor in prestige 00:01:11.680 --> 00:01:15.219 TV drama? Precisely. And the sources really suggest 00:01:15.219 --> 00:01:17.900 that to get her depth now, you absolutely have 00:01:17.900 --> 00:01:19.540 to look at the beginning. Yeah, it seems like 00:01:19.540 --> 00:01:21.260 most of us know her as this brilliant character 00:01:21.260 --> 00:01:23.879 actor, super funny. But her personal history, 00:01:24.060 --> 00:01:28.780 especially this foundational tragedy early on... 00:01:29.390 --> 00:01:31.890 It's apparently essential to understanding the 00:01:31.890 --> 00:01:34.010 emotional power she brings later. It really is. 00:01:34.150 --> 00:01:35.829 Okay, so let's just nail down the basics first. 00:01:36.349 --> 00:01:39.829 Molly Shannon, born September 16th, 1964. So 00:01:39.829 --> 00:01:42.209 as we're recording this in October 2025, she's 00:01:42.209 --> 00:01:45.200 61. Yep. From Cleveland, Ohio. Got her degree 00:01:45.200 --> 00:01:48.359 from NYU's Tisch School of the Arts, a BFA back 00:01:48.359 --> 00:01:50.739 in 87. And she's been working professionally 00:01:50.739 --> 00:01:54.760 since, wow, 1983. A long time. Yeah. And she's 00:01:54.760 --> 00:01:56.480 married to artist Fritz Chestnut. They married 00:01:56.480 --> 00:01:59.359 in 2004 and they've got two kids. So that quick 00:01:59.359 --> 00:02:01.819 overview already tells you two things. One, just 00:02:01.819 --> 00:02:04.760 how long she's been doing this. And two, that 00:02:04.760 --> 00:02:07.849 she had this. Serious, dedicated training in 00:02:07.849 --> 00:02:10.509 the arts right from the start with NYU. But the 00:02:10.509 --> 00:02:12.330 real story, the one that kind of casts a shadow 00:02:12.330 --> 00:02:15.129 over everything, starts even earlier, back in 00:02:15.129 --> 00:02:17.849 Ohio. Okay, let's unpack this. This origin story 00:02:17.849 --> 00:02:21.210 seems critical. She grew up in a traditional 00:02:21.210 --> 00:02:23.509 Irish -American Catholic family in Cleveland. 00:02:23.930 --> 00:02:27.129 The sources even give us a little detail on her 00:02:27.129 --> 00:02:29.669 ancestry. Her mom's parents were born in Ireland. 00:02:30.090 --> 00:02:33.169 Her grandfather was from Clogmore, Achille, Carameo 00:02:33.169 --> 00:02:34.990 specifically. So that gives you the backdrop, 00:02:35.150 --> 00:02:37.349 right? That strong Catholic culture, which definitely 00:02:37.349 --> 00:02:40.090 feeds into her most famous character later on. 00:02:40.189 --> 00:02:42.210 Definitely. But the crucial part, the thing that 00:02:42.210 --> 00:02:45.370 really defines so much, it's not the environment 00:02:45.370 --> 00:02:48.729 itself. It's this catastrophic event that just 00:02:48.729 --> 00:02:51.370 shattered it. Yeah. Happened June 1st, 1969. 00:02:52.110 --> 00:02:54.509 Molly Shannon was only four years old. Four? 00:02:55.180 --> 00:02:57.580 Wow. This is the defining tragedy. The thing 00:02:57.580 --> 00:02:59.900 that you can argue shaped her worldview, her 00:02:59.900 --> 00:03:02.120 resilience, and maybe even that frantic need 00:03:02.120 --> 00:03:04.580 for attention you see in her early comedy. It's 00:03:04.580 --> 00:03:07.099 almost impossible to imagine a four -year -old 00:03:07.099 --> 00:03:10.539 losing so much. She and her older sister Mary, 00:03:10.759 --> 00:03:13.939 they survived this horrific car crash. But it 00:03:13.939 --> 00:03:17.259 killed three family members. Her mother, her 00:03:17.259 --> 00:03:20.030 younger sister Katie, and her cousin Fran. And 00:03:20.030 --> 00:03:21.849 the details from the sources are just incredibly 00:03:21.849 --> 00:03:25.590 stark. Her dad, Jim, was driving them home. They'd 00:03:25.590 --> 00:03:27.990 been at an all -day party, and he had been drinking. 00:03:28.189 --> 00:03:30.330 Okay. Though the source does note he apparently 00:03:30.330 --> 00:03:33.150 took a nap before they left. The crash happened 00:03:33.150 --> 00:03:35.330 about 90 minutes into the drive home that night. 00:03:35.389 --> 00:03:37.689 The car went off the road, hit a solid steel 00:03:37.689 --> 00:03:41.189 light pole. Solid steel. That detail. Yeah. And 00:03:41.189 --> 00:03:43.129 the source points out that most poles like that 00:03:43.129 --> 00:03:45.650 now are breakaway poles, designed to lessen the 00:03:45.650 --> 00:03:49.280 impact. Back then. Not so much. It just underscores 00:03:49.280 --> 00:03:50.939 how violent it must have been. It really did. 00:03:50.960 --> 00:03:52.900 Then there's some ambiguity about the exact cause, 00:03:53.020 --> 00:03:54.780 too, right? Like he'd been drinking, but there 00:03:54.780 --> 00:03:57.240 was no BAC report done at the scene. Correct. 00:03:57.479 --> 00:04:00.400 No BAC report was taken, which makes it hard 00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:03.659 to say definitively. And Shannon herself addresses 00:04:03.659 --> 00:04:06.460 this in her memoir, Hello, Molly, came out in 00:04:06.460 --> 00:04:09.039 2022. What does she say? She writes, basically, 00:04:09.219 --> 00:04:11.719 there is no way to know exactly what happened 00:04:11.719 --> 00:04:13.639 that night, though my gut tells me he fell asleep 00:04:13.639 --> 00:04:15.870 at the wheel. Yeah. So that uncertainty hangs 00:04:15.870 --> 00:04:18.550 there too. God, that's heavy. It is. Yeah. But 00:04:18.550 --> 00:04:21.470 if you connect this, this biographical trauma 00:04:21.470 --> 00:04:25.529 to her art, it's profound. Think about it. At 00:04:25.529 --> 00:04:28.230 four years old, she doesn't just lose her mom 00:04:28.230 --> 00:04:30.290 and sister. Her entire family structure just 00:04:30.290 --> 00:04:33.449 implodes in an instant. And she survives. Yeah. 00:04:33.550 --> 00:04:35.550 That's not just a sad story point. It almost 00:04:35.550 --> 00:04:38.769 creates this like creative necessity. You look 00:04:38.769 --> 00:04:40.990 at the raw emotion she can tap into later in 00:04:40.990 --> 00:04:43.750 dramas. And you look at the sheer manic intensity, 00:04:43.829 --> 00:04:46.970 the physicality of her big SNL characters. You 00:04:46.970 --> 00:04:49.029 can see that as a direct response to surviving. 00:04:49.480 --> 00:04:52.680 It's this relentless need to live, to be seen, 00:04:52.720 --> 00:04:55.420 to fill the void left by that massive absence. 00:04:55.680 --> 00:04:57.540 It makes sense that kind of survival instinct 00:04:57.540 --> 00:05:00.879 manifesting as like hyperactivity or needing 00:05:00.879 --> 00:05:03.300 affirmation, the need to perform, be loud, be 00:05:03.300 --> 00:05:05.620 present after experiencing that kind of devastating 00:05:05.620 --> 00:05:08.540 silence. Exactly. But OK, before she got loud 00:05:08.540 --> 00:05:11.319 on SNL, she did follow this very dedicated academic 00:05:11.319 --> 00:05:14.240 path. St. Dominic School, then Hawkins School, 00:05:14.360 --> 00:05:16.759 and then graduating from Tisch at NYU in 87. 00:05:17.259 --> 00:05:19.259 She was serious about the craft. Absolutely. 00:05:19.720 --> 00:05:22.879 Serious, yes, but, you know, the reality of trying 00:05:22.879 --> 00:05:25.420 to make it means hustle. And the sources show 00:05:25.420 --> 00:05:28.480 her early L .A. life was that classic struggling 00:05:28.480 --> 00:05:31.759 actor story. She was a hostess at Cravings Restaurant 00:05:31.759 --> 00:05:35.240 on Sunset. Okay. And my favorite detail, she 00:05:35.240 --> 00:05:37.879 worked as a food demo girl at Gelson's Supermarket 00:05:37.879 --> 00:05:41.160 down in Marina Del Rey. No way. Molly Shannon 00:05:41.160 --> 00:05:43.540 handing out cheese samples. Can you picture it? 00:05:43.600 --> 00:05:45.899 Trying to get shoppers excited about, like, tiny 00:05:45.899 --> 00:05:47.759 bits of cracker? That's amazing. That's the kind 00:05:47.759 --> 00:05:49.939 of job that builds character. And for a comedian, 00:05:50.220 --> 00:05:52.459 probably amazing material for observing people. 00:05:52.680 --> 00:05:54.720 Totally. The comedic mind is always gathering 00:05:54.720 --> 00:05:57.240 data, right? But then finally comes the big break. 00:05:57.420 --> 00:06:00.079 Saturday Night Live. Okay, so she joins in February 00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:03.740 1995. Hired mid -season to replace Jane Garofalo. 00:06:04.279 --> 00:06:06.040 But that timing, it wasn't just random. It was 00:06:06.040 --> 00:06:09.019 huge. Hugely significant. Because the mid -90s, 00:06:09.019 --> 00:06:11.300 that was a time of massive upheaval for SNL. 00:06:11.399 --> 00:06:13.740 Right. Lorne Michaels was doing that major overhaul. 00:06:13.860 --> 00:06:17.120 A serious, sometimes brutal overhaul. The show 00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:19.120 was getting criticized. Lots of cast members 00:06:19.120 --> 00:06:21.899 were cycling in and out really fast. But Shannon, 00:06:22.040 --> 00:06:25.379 she proved herself immediately. How so? Well, 00:06:25.420 --> 00:06:27.500 when that massive cast and writer purge happened 00:06:27.500 --> 00:06:31.899 before season 21, the 95 -96 season, she was 00:06:31.899 --> 00:06:33.889 one of the very few who got kept on. Who all 00:06:33.889 --> 00:06:35.990 stayed. People who became the anchors of that 00:06:35.990 --> 00:06:38.899 era. David Spade, Norm Macdonald, Mark McKinney, 00:06:38.959 --> 00:06:41.920 Tim Meadows, and Molly Shannon. Just surviving 00:06:41.920 --> 00:06:44.779 that cut says a lot about what she brought immediately. 00:06:44.879 --> 00:06:47.199 That unique voice, that energy. She wasn't just 00:06:47.199 --> 00:06:49.939 useful, she was seen as indispensable. Totally. 00:06:50.019 --> 00:06:52.519 And she didn't just survive, she absolutely flourished. 00:06:52.579 --> 00:06:55.279 Became a main cast member, ended up doing 117 00:06:55.279 --> 00:06:57.959 episodes. She was a cornerstone of that late 00:06:57.959 --> 00:07:00.360 90s, early 2000s cast. Okay, so let's talk about 00:07:00.360 --> 00:07:02.779 those iconic characters. Because analyzing them 00:07:02.779 --> 00:07:04.920 through the lens of that early life story... 00:07:05.180 --> 00:07:07.899 It adds layers, doesn't it? It really does. These 00:07:07.899 --> 00:07:09.500 aren't just silly sketches. They're often these 00:07:09.500 --> 00:07:11.959 highly charged comedic statements, sometimes 00:07:11.959 --> 00:07:15.740 bordering on like desperation or mania. It's 00:07:15.740 --> 00:07:19.180 her comedic DNA on display. So where do we start? 00:07:19.339 --> 00:07:21.720 It has to be Mary Catherine Gallagher. Absolutely. 00:07:21.959 --> 00:07:24.199 Her signature. The one that got its own movie. 00:07:24.279 --> 00:07:27.220 She's that awkward, outcast Catholic schoolgirl. 00:07:27.850 --> 00:07:30.589 desperate desperate to be a superstar so physical 00:07:30.589 --> 00:07:33.730 too clumsy falls over everything sniffs her fingers 00:07:33.730 --> 00:07:35.990 after sticking them under her arms yeah it's 00:07:35.990 --> 00:07:39.949 all bundled into this ball of manic awkward teenage 00:07:39.949 --> 00:07:42.970 energy and the key thing is shannon actually 00:07:42.970 --> 00:07:45.149 created and started developing this character 00:07:45.149 --> 00:07:47.730 way back when she was a student at nyu really 00:07:47.730 --> 00:07:50.990 before snl long before snl which shows this core 00:07:50.990 --> 00:07:54.680 persona This mix of intense yearning and physical 00:07:54.680 --> 00:07:57.620 comedy was already fully formed. And that yearning, 00:07:57.720 --> 00:08:00.180 what does it represent? Mary Catherine Gallagher 00:08:00.180 --> 00:08:02.560 is basically someone trying way too hard, right? 00:08:02.759 --> 00:08:05.620 She wants validation, stardom. So badly, she 00:08:05.620 --> 00:08:07.920 almost physically attacks the world. Crashes 00:08:07.920 --> 00:08:10.420 into stuff just to feel something, maybe. You 00:08:10.420 --> 00:08:12.160 could definitely read it that way. Like a comedic 00:08:12.160 --> 00:08:14.480 version of that relentless pursuit of life we 00:08:14.480 --> 00:08:17.259 talked about, but filtered through intense adolescent 00:08:17.259 --> 00:08:19.420 anxiety. And yeah, that character was so huge, 00:08:19.480 --> 00:08:21.420 it led straight to the superstar movie in 99. 00:08:21.920 --> 00:08:23.980 Okay, then there's the complete opposite in some 00:08:23.980 --> 00:08:27.660 ways, Sally O'Malley. Ah, yes. The proud 50 -year 00:08:27.660 --> 00:08:30.699 -old dancer. The super tight red pants, the big 00:08:30.699 --> 00:08:34.440 hair, that aggressive confidence. I'm 50, and 00:08:34.440 --> 00:08:37.000 I like to kick, stretch, and kick. You can't 00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:40.259 forget the kick. Never forget the kick. Sally 00:08:40.259 --> 00:08:44.419 O'Malley is just... Pure, blinding, almost defiant 00:08:44.419 --> 00:08:47.840 self -belief. She shouts her age, demands you 00:08:47.840 --> 00:08:50.159 respect her physical power. She's the opposite 00:08:50.159 --> 00:08:52.460 of Mary Catherine's desperation. She's like total 00:08:52.460 --> 00:08:55.139 self -actualization, maybe over -actualization. 00:08:55.139 --> 00:08:58.139 Yeah, she refuses to show vulnerability, refuses 00:08:58.139 --> 00:09:00.620 to acknowledge aging, which, again, you could 00:09:00.620 --> 00:09:03.419 tie back to that theme of survival through sheer... 00:09:04.019 --> 00:09:06.039 aggressive forward motion. Keep moving. Keep 00:09:06.039 --> 00:09:07.519 kicking. And then there's the one that always 00:09:07.519 --> 00:09:09.440 felt like it was just barely holding something 00:09:09.440 --> 00:09:11.700 back. Helen Madden, the geologist. Oh, Helen 00:09:11.700 --> 00:09:15.470 Madden. Pure, relentless, almost weaponized exuberance. 00:09:15.470 --> 00:09:17.789 I love it. I love it. I love it. That catchphrase 00:09:17.789 --> 00:09:19.710 is basically an emotional force field, isn't 00:09:19.710 --> 00:09:22.389 it? Yeah. She just bombards any awkwardness or 00:09:22.389 --> 00:09:25.470 negativity with this tsunami of over -the -top 00:09:25.470 --> 00:09:27.429 positivity, like she's running from stillness, 00:09:27.490 --> 00:09:29.889 from thinking too much. It's a great example 00:09:29.889 --> 00:09:32.629 of how forced cheerfulness can be just as funny 00:09:32.629 --> 00:09:35.789 and maybe unsettling as Pratt Falls. It's a very 00:09:35.789 --> 00:09:39.379 stylized emotion. Totally. But the sources also 00:09:39.379 --> 00:09:41.519 point out her range away from the big physical 00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:44.139 characters. Yeah. Like Terry Rialto? Ah, yes. 00:09:44.320 --> 00:09:47.539 From the NPR show Delicious Dish with Anna Gasteyer. 00:09:47.899 --> 00:09:51.360 So dry. So dry. And the genius of those sketches, 00:09:51.559 --> 00:09:53.779 I mean, everyone remembers the sweaty balls one 00:09:53.779 --> 00:09:56.360 with Alec Baldwin. What classic. The genius was 00:09:56.360 --> 00:09:59.399 in the subtlety. It was all about the deadpan 00:09:59.399 --> 00:10:02.299 reactions, the slightly suppressed horror at 00:10:02.299 --> 00:10:05.279 the double entendres, the awkward pauses. It 00:10:05.279 --> 00:10:07.940 proved Shannon could do more than just... explode 00:10:07.940 --> 00:10:10.419 outwards, she could implode perfectly too. And 00:10:10.419 --> 00:10:12.259 there were others too, right? Showing that versatility. 00:10:12.360 --> 00:10:14.860 Oh yeah. Circe Nightshade. Yeah. Goth talk show 00:10:14.860 --> 00:10:17.500 host with Chris Kattan. Miss Colleen from the 00:10:17.500 --> 00:10:20.279 dog show sketches with Will Ferrell. And remember 00:10:20.279 --> 00:10:22.419 Jeannie Darcy? The stand -up comedian with the 00:10:22.419 --> 00:10:25.320 mullet who was deliberately painfully unfunny. 00:10:25.340 --> 00:10:27.899 Yes. Whose only punchline was always, don't get 00:10:27.899 --> 00:10:30.259 me started, don't even get me started. The joke 00:10:30.259 --> 00:10:32.919 was her complete lack of timing. So you look 00:10:32.919 --> 00:10:35.799 at that whole spectrum. Hyperphysical Gallagher, 00:10:35.879 --> 00:10:39.899 Deadpan Rialto, Manic Madden. It shows this incredible 00:10:39.899 --> 00:10:42.460 command over different kinds of emotional intensity. 00:10:42.899 --> 00:10:46.220 Exactly. And that command is precisely what lets 00:10:46.220 --> 00:10:48.620 her make that pivot later on. We should also 00:10:48.620 --> 00:10:51.379 mention the impressions. She did a ton. A huge 00:10:51.379 --> 00:10:55.399 range. The sources list musicians, actors, public 00:10:55.399 --> 00:10:58.759 figures. It's pretty diverse. Like who? Well, 00:10:58.860 --> 00:11:02.200 think about jumping from, like, the breathy country 00:11:02.200 --> 00:11:06.289 style of Shanae Twain. To the old school theatricality 00:11:06.289 --> 00:11:09.029 of Ann Miller or Elizabeth Taylor. OK, that's 00:11:09.029 --> 00:11:10.789 range. Then she could capture the raw energy 00:11:10.789 --> 00:11:13.629 of Janis Joplin, the pop vibes of Madonna or 00:11:13.629 --> 00:11:16.370 Gwen Stefani. And she tackled public figures 00:11:16.370 --> 00:11:18.789 like Monica Lewinsky and even later did a very 00:11:18.789 --> 00:11:21.429 memorable Melania Trump. What ties those together? 00:11:21.549 --> 00:11:23.809 Is it just mimicry? I think it's more than that. 00:11:23.909 --> 00:11:25.889 It feels like she captures the energy of the 00:11:25.889 --> 00:11:28.049 person, whether that energy is wild and physical 00:11:28.049 --> 00:11:30.529 or super restrained and controlled. It's deep 00:11:30.529 --> 00:11:32.230 character work, not just a surface impression. 00:11:32.909 --> 00:11:35.590 That skill set is foundational for her later 00:11:35.590 --> 00:11:37.690 dramatic work. She can fully transform. Yeah, 00:11:37.730 --> 00:11:40.470 makes sense. She left SNL as a main cast member 00:11:40.470 --> 00:11:42.929 in 2001, but she didn't just disappear from that 00:11:42.929 --> 00:11:45.330 world. Not at all. The relationship stayed strong. 00:11:45.549 --> 00:11:49.289 She came back to host on May 12, 2007, and that 00:11:49.289 --> 00:11:51.919 was a big deal. Why was it significant? She was 00:11:51.919 --> 00:11:54.539 only the second former female cast member ever 00:11:54.539 --> 00:11:57.899 to host. And, crucially, the first one who'd 00:11:57.899 --> 00:12:00.539 been hired during Lorne Michaels' second run. 00:12:00.799 --> 00:12:03.299 And she came back for other big moments, too, 00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:06.639 like a Mother's Day episode in 2010 and the Women 00:12:06.639 --> 00:12:08.980 of SNL special that same year. That shows how 00:12:08.980 --> 00:12:11.559 important she was to the show's legacy. But even 00:12:11.559 --> 00:12:14.059 while she was still there, and definitely after, 00:12:14.340 --> 00:12:17.200 she was already branching out. diversifying her 00:12:17.200 --> 00:12:19.580 career oh yeah that diversification started early 00:12:19.580 --> 00:12:21.220 let's look at some of that early work because 00:12:21.220 --> 00:12:23.279 it shows her hustle trying things across different 00:12:23.279 --> 00:12:26.519 genres okay her first major film role believe 00:12:26.519 --> 00:12:29.419 it or not wasn't a comedy at all it was meg in 00:12:29.419 --> 00:12:32.299 the 1989 horror remake of the phantom of the 00:12:32.299 --> 00:12:35.879 opera with robert england ah wow okay definitely 00:12:35.879 --> 00:12:38.080 not where you'd expect her to start yeah Right. 00:12:38.179 --> 00:12:40.820 And she had some really interesting kind of quirky 00:12:40.820 --> 00:12:44.419 early TV spots, too. Like in 1991, she popped 00:12:44.419 --> 00:12:47.080 up in Twin Peaks season two. No way. As who? 00:12:47.279 --> 00:12:50.039 As the happy helping hand lady. Yeah. A tiny 00:12:50.039 --> 00:12:52.860 memorable part in that very surreal world. A 00:12:52.860 --> 00:12:55.320 real deep cut for Lynch fans. That's amazing. 00:12:55.580 --> 00:12:57.700 And she was also doing other sketch comedy before 00:12:57.700 --> 00:13:00.539 SNL. Yeah. Before she landed the SNL gig, she 00:13:00.539 --> 00:13:02.500 was in three episodes of In Living Color back 00:13:02.500 --> 00:13:05.919 in 93. Did a sketch with Jim Carrey, Star Trek 00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:08.909 parody. She was already in that top -tier comedy 00:13:08.909 --> 00:13:11.769 circuit. So once SNL hit and she became famous... 00:13:12.139 --> 00:13:14.259 The movie role started coming more steadily, 00:13:14.379 --> 00:13:16.620 often as a really strong supporting player, right? 00:13:16.740 --> 00:13:19.139 Exactly. Often stealing scenes in ensemble casts. 00:13:19.720 --> 00:13:22.440 The late 90s were busy. She was in Todd Solins' 00:13:22.600 --> 00:13:25.460 dark film Happiness in 98. The ensemble actually 00:13:25.460 --> 00:13:27.259 won an award for that from the National Board 00:13:27.259 --> 00:13:29.679 of Review. Okay, so serious drama cred early 00:13:29.679 --> 00:13:31.899 on, too. Mixed right in with pure comedy. Same 00:13:31.899 --> 00:13:34.080 year, 98, she's in A Night at the Roxbury with 00:13:34.080 --> 00:13:37.179 Pharrell and Catan. Then 99, she's Anita in Never 00:13:37.179 --> 00:13:40.700 Been Kissed with Drew Barrymore. She could just 00:13:40.700 --> 00:13:43.279 switch between those modes. And she was everywhere 00:13:43.279 --> 00:13:45.820 in the early 2000s, like How the Grinch Stole 00:13:45.820 --> 00:13:48.320 Christmas. Yep, 2000, playing Betty Lou Who. 00:13:48.500 --> 00:13:51.879 And then a certified cult classic, Wet Hot American 00:13:51.879 --> 00:13:55.159 Summer in 2001. Oh, Gail von Kleinenstein, the 00:13:55.159 --> 00:13:57.840 arts counselor who's always crying. Yes, and 00:13:57.840 --> 00:14:00.779 that role is perfect, Shannon. Grounding total 00:14:00.779 --> 00:14:04.159 absurdity with genuine, even if it's ridiculously 00:14:04.159 --> 00:14:08.029 misplaced, emotion. crying over a talking can 00:14:08.029 --> 00:14:10.230 of vegetables. It's brilliant. And don't forget 00:14:10.230 --> 00:14:13.350 Talladega Nights in 2006. In a lot of these films, 00:14:13.370 --> 00:14:15.750 she plays characters who are just operating at 00:14:15.750 --> 00:14:18.009 a slightly higher, maybe more chaotic, emotional 00:14:18.009 --> 00:14:20.870 pitch than everyone else. That became her comedic 00:14:20.870 --> 00:14:23.230 sweet spot for a while. And on TV, she had some 00:14:23.230 --> 00:14:25.710 really memorable recurring roles, too. Definitely. 00:14:25.789 --> 00:14:28.509 Probably the biggest was Val Bathit on Will and 00:14:28.509 --> 00:14:30.990 Grace, Grace's slightly unhinged neighbor and 00:14:30.990 --> 00:14:32.970 rival. She was hilarious in that. Appeared in 00:14:32.970 --> 00:14:34.950 five episodes of the original run, came back 00:14:34.950 --> 00:14:37.309 for the revival, too. She also popped up in Sex 00:14:37.309 --> 00:14:39.789 and the City for a few episodes as Lily Martin. 00:14:40.330 --> 00:14:43.909 And later, in 2010, she was in Glee playing Brenda 00:14:43.909 --> 00:14:46.649 Castle. Sue Sylvester's rival. Her voice work 00:14:46.649 --> 00:14:48.870 is another whole area, too, showing that versatility 00:14:48.870 --> 00:14:51.509 again. Yeah, that's a consistent thread. She 00:14:51.509 --> 00:14:53.629 did the English voiceover for Studio Ghibli's 00:14:53.629 --> 00:14:56.889 My Neighbor's The Amidas back in 2005. Voice 00:14:56.889 --> 00:14:59.710 characters in Osmosis Jones, Igor. But the big 00:14:59.710 --> 00:15:01.570 one is Hotel Transylvania, right? That's the 00:15:01.570 --> 00:15:04.470 huge one. Playing Wanda the werewolf mom across 00:15:04.470 --> 00:15:08.350 four films from 2012 all the way to 2022. That's 00:15:08.350 --> 00:15:10.970 a decade of consistent voice work in a major 00:15:10.970 --> 00:15:13.929 franchise. Huge exposure to a family audience. 00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:16.299 requires totally different skills than physical 00:15:16.299 --> 00:15:18.379 comedy. Speaking of different skills, but maybe 00:15:18.379 --> 00:15:21.960 back towards comedy, that bizarre and brilliant 00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:24.399 partnership with Will Ferrell as Tish and Cord. 00:15:24.539 --> 00:15:27.580 Oh, Cord Hosenbeck and Tish Cadigan. Yes. Fictional 00:15:27.580 --> 00:15:30.580 local TV personalities. It's genius. They hosted 00:15:30.580 --> 00:15:32.879 the Rose Parade coverage for Amazon in 2018. 00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:35.240 They did. And then they did the Royal Wedding 00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:38.309 Live with Cord and Tish. for HBO that same year. 00:15:38.389 --> 00:15:41.029 That whole concept is just a masterclass in commitment, 00:15:41.250 --> 00:15:43.549 isn't it? Staying completely in character, treating 00:15:43.549 --> 00:15:45.470 these huge live events with this perfect mix 00:15:45.470 --> 00:15:48.710 of fake reverence and total cluelessness. It 00:15:48.710 --> 00:15:51.259 requires such trust between them. probably built 00:15:51.259 --> 00:15:53.759 back in their SNL days. And it shows that even 00:15:53.759 --> 00:15:56.379 as she was starting to explore more serious drama, 00:15:56.659 --> 00:15:59.360 she wasn't abandoning comedy. She was just getting 00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:02.480 more specific, more stylized with it. Okay, this 00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:04.899 feels like the perfect transition because now 00:16:04.899 --> 00:16:07.059 we get to what's arguably the most compelling 00:16:07.059 --> 00:16:10.240 part of her story, the shift towards serious 00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:13.200 drama, critical acclaim. This is where you really 00:16:13.200 --> 00:16:15.399 see the evolution. Absolutely. And it wasn't 00:16:15.399 --> 00:16:17.600 like flipping a switch overnight. You can trace 00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:20.059 a lot of it back to one key collaborator. Yeah. 00:16:20.409 --> 00:16:23.110 Writer -director Mike White. Ah, interesting. 00:16:23.330 --> 00:16:26.169 How so? Well, she first showed that more dramatic 00:16:26.169 --> 00:16:29.350 side in his film Year of the Dog back in 2007. 00:16:29.690 --> 00:16:31.389 Mike White's known for characters who are often 00:16:31.389 --> 00:16:34.990 dealing with, like, quiet desperation or suppressed 00:16:34.990 --> 00:16:37.769 stuff, right? Exactly. That slightly uncomfortable, 00:16:38.269 --> 00:16:41.429 emotionally fraught territory seems to be where 00:16:41.429 --> 00:16:43.950 Shannon's ability for contained performance really 00:16:43.950 --> 00:16:45.970 started to shine. And their partnership continued. 00:16:46.309 --> 00:16:48.840 Big time. Well, the HBO series Enlightened in 00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:52.259 2013, critically loved show. Shannon played Eileen 00:16:52.259 --> 00:16:54.399 Fuliente, who becomes the love interest for Mike 00:16:54.399 --> 00:16:56.559 White's character. I remember that role. It was 00:16:56.559 --> 00:17:00.080 quieter, different. It was a revelation. Really 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:02.279 showed her delivering genuine, subtle emotion, 00:17:02.460 --> 00:17:06.119 miles away from the big SNL gestures. And it 00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:08.720 got noticed. She earned an Emmy nomination for 00:17:08.720 --> 00:17:10.759 Outstanding Guest Actress for that role. So that 00:17:10.759 --> 00:17:12.380 was the industry saying, OK, wait a minute, she 00:17:12.380 --> 00:17:15.559 can do this too. Pretty much. But the role that 00:17:15.559 --> 00:17:18.759 truly cemented her status as a serious dramatic 00:17:18.759 --> 00:17:21.359 actor, the one that brought major awards, that 00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:24.579 was the 2016 film Other People. Right. Playing 00:17:24.579 --> 00:17:27.920 Joanne Mulcahy, a mother dying of cancer. Yeah. 00:17:27.980 --> 00:17:30.140 And that role required her to strip away all 00:17:30.140 --> 00:17:32.680 the comedic armor. Joanne is about vulnerability, 00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:37.650 fatigue. Quiet pain. Resilience. The total opposite 00:17:37.650 --> 00:17:39.930 of a Helen Madden or Sally O'Malley. The performance 00:17:39.930 --> 00:17:42.509 was just universally praised for being so real, 00:17:42.589 --> 00:17:44.750 so human. And the recognition was huge for that 00:17:44.750 --> 00:17:47.569 one. Immense. She won the 2017 Film Independent 00:17:47.569 --> 00:17:49.890 Spirit Award for Best Supporting Female. That's 00:17:49.890 --> 00:17:51.970 a big one. The Spirit Awards carry a lot of weight 00:17:51.970 --> 00:17:55.130 in the indie film world. Absolutely. It's serious 00:17:55.130 --> 00:17:58.029 peer and critical recognition for her dramatic 00:17:58.029 --> 00:18:00.630 chops. She got nominated by other critics groups, 00:18:00.690 --> 00:18:02.650 too. This wasn't just a side project anymore. 00:18:02.710 --> 00:18:05.789 This was a genuine career pivot. And since then, 00:18:05.809 --> 00:18:08.369 she's just been a fixture in high profile quality 00:18:08.369 --> 00:18:11.670 TV, often in roles that blend comedy and drama. 00:18:11.950 --> 00:18:14.369 Exactly. She's become this incredibly reliable, 00:18:14.809 --> 00:18:17.869 sought after actor for complex roles. Let's run 00:18:17.869 --> 00:18:19.569 through some of that recent work because the 00:18:19.569 --> 00:18:21.869 quality is amazing. She was a main cast member 00:18:21.869 --> 00:18:24.230 in Divorce with Sarah Jessica Parker from 2016 00:18:24.230 --> 00:18:27.109 to 2019, played Diane, the pragmatic friend. 00:18:27.289 --> 00:18:30.390 That show required real dramatic weight. Definitely. 00:18:30.450 --> 00:18:32.970 Then she gave what I think is one of her absolute 00:18:32.970 --> 00:18:35.619 best performances as Pat Duback in the other 00:18:35.619 --> 00:18:38.240 two. She's fantastic in that. The mom. Right. 00:18:38.339 --> 00:18:41.319 The super supportive, slightly naive mom swept 00:18:41.319 --> 00:18:44.259 up in her kids' crazy fame. Pat is so inherently 00:18:44.259 --> 00:18:47.099 decent, but she's constantly in way over her 00:18:47.099 --> 00:18:49.279 head. It's such a nuanced, performance -loving, 00:18:49.279 --> 00:18:52.819 bewildered, funny, sad. She got multiple Critics' 00:18:52.819 --> 00:18:54.700 Choice nominations for that. And the Mike White 00:18:54.700 --> 00:18:56.700 connection continued with The White Lotus season 00:18:56.700 --> 00:19:00.609 one. Yep. 2021. She played Kitty Patton, the 00:19:00.609 --> 00:19:02.549 wealthy mom who crashes her son's honeymoon. 00:19:02.750 --> 00:19:05.930 A perfect small role showcasing that kind of 00:19:05.930 --> 00:19:08.730 passive -aggressive privilege. Earned her a nomination 00:19:08.730 --> 00:19:11.859 overseas, too. A pina de prada. And she starred 00:19:11.859 --> 00:19:15.380 with another SNL alum, Vanessa Bayer, in I Love 00:19:15.380 --> 00:19:18.680 That For You. Yeah, 2022. Playing Jackie Stilton, 00:19:18.819 --> 00:19:20.759 the Veteran Home Shopping Network host. It was 00:19:20.759 --> 00:19:23.140 great seeing them together. And that role blended 00:19:23.140 --> 00:19:25.799 her comedy chops with a more grounded mentoring 00:19:25.799 --> 00:19:28.480 vibe. Got another Independent Spirit nomination 00:19:28.480 --> 00:19:32.119 for that one. And just recently, 2024, she joined 00:19:32.119 --> 00:19:34.059 the cast of Only Murders in the Building for 00:19:34.059 --> 00:19:37.470 season four. As Bev Mellon, yeah. And her being 00:19:37.470 --> 00:19:39.990 part of that incredible ensemble directly contributed 00:19:39.990 --> 00:19:42.109 to them winning the Screen Actors Guild Award 00:19:42.109 --> 00:19:44.069 for Outstanding Ensemble in Comedy Series this 00:19:44.069 --> 00:19:46.630 year. So in her 60s, she's still right at the 00:19:46.630 --> 00:19:49.029 center of things, working on hit shows, winning 00:19:49.029 --> 00:19:51.690 major awards with top ensembles. It's incredible. 00:19:51.950 --> 00:19:53.829 It really is. She's consistently working at the 00:19:53.829 --> 00:19:56.609 highest level across genres. It proves that the 00:19:56.609 --> 00:19:58.950 range she showed back at SNL wasn't just about 00:19:58.950 --> 00:20:01.609 sketches. It was this deep well of talent just 00:20:01.609 --> 00:20:03.410 waiting for the right dramatic opportunities. 00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:05.900 Okay, before we wrap up, let's just touch on 00:20:05.900 --> 00:20:07.819 a couple of other things that round out the picture. 00:20:07.940 --> 00:20:10.660 Her writing, for instance. Yes, the literary 00:20:10.660 --> 00:20:13.539 work is important, especially her memoir, Hello 00:20:13.539 --> 00:20:16.980 Molly, from 2022, because it directly connects 00:20:16.980 --> 00:20:20.180 back to that defining tragedy. How so? She really 00:20:20.180 --> 00:20:23.220 uses that childhood loss and her subsequent search 00:20:23.220 --> 00:20:26.160 for connection and meaning as the central thread 00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:28.759 for understanding her life and career. It's very 00:20:28.759 --> 00:20:32.299 open about how grief fueled her drive. And on 00:20:32.299 --> 00:20:34.859 a totally different note, she also wrote a children's 00:20:34.859 --> 00:20:38.599 book, Tilly the Trickster, back in 2011. So from 00:20:38.599 --> 00:20:41.799 deep personal reflection to kids' books. That 00:20:41.799 --> 00:20:44.500 range again. Always the range. And just summarizing 00:20:44.500 --> 00:20:46.500 the awards trajectory, it really tells the story, 00:20:46.579 --> 00:20:48.779 doesn't it? Early nominations reflecting mass 00:20:48.779 --> 00:20:52.799 appeal, like for Superstar or Grinch. Emmy nods 00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:55.279 for SNL, then later for those key guest spots 00:20:55.279 --> 00:20:57.700 on Enlightened, Will & Grace. Right, but then 00:20:57.700 --> 00:20:59.779 the shift becomes clear with those major wins 00:20:59.779 --> 00:21:02.180 later on. The Spirit Award for Other People in 00:21:02.180 --> 00:21:04.640 2017 is the big marker for dramatic recognition. 00:21:04.960 --> 00:21:07.220 Add that to the Early Ensemble Award for Happiness 00:21:07.220 --> 00:21:10.160 and the very recent SAG Award for the Only Murders 00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:13.109 Ensemble. She's now recognized both for that 00:21:13.109 --> 00:21:16.190 early, almost solo comedic genius, and for her 00:21:16.190 --> 00:21:18.609 crucial role within sophisticated ensembles. 00:21:18.710 --> 00:21:21.230 And she's not stopping. The sources say she's 00:21:21.230 --> 00:21:23.529 got several projects completed or in post -production 00:21:23.529 --> 00:21:26.109 now. Driver's Ed, People We Meet on Vacation, 00:21:26.130 --> 00:21:28.630 Balls Up, she's still going full steam. She's 00:21:28.630 --> 00:21:31.210 pulled off something incredibly rare. Being a 00:21:31.210 --> 00:21:34.089 beloved, iconic comedian whose characters literally 00:21:34.089 --> 00:21:36.410 defined a generation of sketch comedy. Right. 00:21:36.509 --> 00:21:39.200 And becoming a highly respected... award -winning 00:21:39.200 --> 00:21:42.319 dramatic actor known for subtlety and emotional 00:21:42.319 --> 00:21:45.480 depth. It's really a story of profound, maybe 00:21:45.480 --> 00:21:48.259 even exuberant resilience. So let's try and synthesize 00:21:48.259 --> 00:21:49.980 this for everyone listening. We've traced this 00:21:49.980 --> 00:21:52.920 amazing path from Cleveland, that devastating 00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:55.579 early tragedy, through serious training at NYU, 00:21:55.839 --> 00:21:58.099 then exploding onto the scene with these huge 00:21:58.099 --> 00:21:59.859 physical characters at SNL like Mary Catherine 00:21:59.859 --> 00:22:02.640 Gallagher and Sally O'Malley. And finally, arriving 00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:04.980 at her current status as this incredibly respected, 00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:08.970 subtle, powerful, dramatic force. And if we loop 00:22:08.970 --> 00:22:11.750 back to that central idea, think about Helen 00:22:11.750 --> 00:22:13.930 Madden again, the joyologist. I love it. I love 00:22:13.930 --> 00:22:15.690 it. I love it. Exactly. That character is almost 00:22:15.690 --> 00:22:18.890 aggressive, insistence on joy, on positivity. 00:22:18.950 --> 00:22:22.750 I love it. It's more than just a funny catchphrase, 00:22:22.750 --> 00:22:25.049 isn't it? It feels like an emotional strategy. 00:22:25.349 --> 00:22:28.329 I mean. Like that constant, almost compulsive 00:22:28.329 --> 00:22:31.710 need for high -level outward positivity, that 00:22:31.710 --> 00:22:34.349 refusal to slow down or acknowledge anything 00:22:34.349 --> 00:22:37.470 negative. You could absolutely see that as a 00:22:37.470 --> 00:22:40.569 deep -seated survival mechanism, a really powerful 00:22:40.569 --> 00:22:43.390 performative defense against the immense pain 00:22:43.390 --> 00:22:45.829 and silence she must have experienced as a child. 00:22:46.029 --> 00:22:48.390 In that light, the comedy itself becomes this 00:22:48.390 --> 00:22:52.849 act of profound, necessary, and exuberant resilience. 00:22:53.190 --> 00:22:55.910 Wow. Connecting the joyologist's relentless positivity 00:22:55.910 --> 00:22:58.410 directly back to that childhood trauma that sheds 00:22:58.410 --> 00:23:00.529 a whole new light on it. Which brings us perfectly 00:23:00.529 --> 00:23:02.470 to our final thought for you, the listener, today. 00:23:02.630 --> 00:23:04.650 We've seen how Molly Shannon clearly channeled 00:23:04.650 --> 00:23:06.700 enormous... personal tragedy into that incredibly 00:23:06.700 --> 00:23:09.799 physical, often absurd comedy that made her famous 00:23:09.799 --> 00:23:13.200 early on. Now, if laughter often serves as a 00:23:13.200 --> 00:23:15.279 response to pain or maybe a shield against it, 00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:17.519 think about specific elements in her most famous 00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:20.019 characters, like Mary Catherine Gallagher's desperate, 00:23:20.160 --> 00:23:22.660 almost painful yearning to be a superstar, or 00:23:22.660 --> 00:23:25.019 Sally O'Malley's frantic, relentless need to 00:23:25.019 --> 00:23:27.599 kick, stretch, and kick. Can you see those as 00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:30.099 direct, creative expressions of surviving that 00:23:30.099 --> 00:23:32.559 childhood loss, that relentless pursuit of visibility, 00:23:32.920 --> 00:23:35.349 of life itself, that has to follow and maybe 00:23:35.349 --> 00:23:37.730 ask yourself does the profound dramatic depth 00:23:37.730 --> 00:23:39.990 she accesses now only become possible once the 00:23:39.990 --> 00:23:42.849 comedian learns how or feels safe enough to finally 00:23:42.849 --> 00:23:44.750 lower that shield of exaggerated performance 00:23:44.750 --> 00:23:46.329 something to think about