WEBVTT

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Well, let's unpack this. We are diving deep into

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the life, the work, and the really astonishing

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influence of Mary Cassatt, an artist who started

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as this upper -class American rebel and became

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just an absolute key figure in French Impressionism.

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She was, I think, without question, the greatest

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visual chronicler of the new woman. Of the late

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19th century. It's still just a phenomenal story.

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I mean, just think about the sheer obstacles

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she had to overcome. You've got this American

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woman born in Pennsylvania, right? Moves to Paris,

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which is the absolute center of the art world.

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The epicenter, yeah. And she doesn't just get

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accepted. She gets singled out by critics. One

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of the three great ladies, L 'Etoile Grande Dame

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of Impressionism. Alongside Berthe Morceau and

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Marie Brachemont. Exactly. I mean, that just

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doesn't happen without incredible talent and,

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frankly, just sheer willpower. So our source

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material for this deep dive, it's a fantastic

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stack of biographies, critical perspectives.

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They really map out her path beautifully. We're

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looking at her technical skill, that really important,

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sometimes stormy partnership she had with Edgar

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Degas. Oh, yeah. Crucially, how she basically

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became the main person, the evangelist, who brought

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impressionism to American collectors. You still

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see the legacy of that today, don't you? Like

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in the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Completely.

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And what's so fascinating, I think, is her subject

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matter. These intimate, unvarnished pictures

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of women's lives, social and private. Especially

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the mother and child bond. Right. And it was

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quietly radical, wasn't it? Because of her perspective.

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Totally. It was the female gaze turned onto the

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domestic world. Yeah. that male artists well

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they either couldn't get access to or maybe just

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didn't think were important enough elevating

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the everyday exactly so our mission today really

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is twofold first how did this ambitious kind

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of unconventional woman get that knowledge get

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that influence in a world basically set up to

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stop her and second why was her specific viewpoint

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her unique perspective so absolutely essential

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in moving art you know out of that old academic

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tradition and into modernity Okay, let's start

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at the beginning then. Allegheny, Pennsylvania,

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1844. Mary Stevenson Cassatt is born. And this

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wasn't just any family. No, definitely not. Serious

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means high expectations. Upper middle class.

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Right. Her father, Robert Simpson Cassatt, he

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was a successful stockbroker, land speculator.

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The family name was actually Cassart originally,

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French Huguenots. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Came

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over to New Amsterdam way back in 1662. And her

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mother, Catherine Kelso Johnston, she was from

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a big banking family too. And importantly, really

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well educated, well read. And the mother seems

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key here. Didn't Cassatt's friend, Louisine Havemeyer,

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say something about that? She did. Havemeyer

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basically argued that if you knew Catherine,

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you knew Mary got her brains, her capacity from

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her and her alone. Strong influence there. It's

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a strong intellectual foundation and then massive

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exposure to the world. Huge exposure. The Cassatts

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really believed travel was crucial for a good

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education. So Mary spent, what, five years in

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Europe as a child? Five years. Wow. Yeah. Learned

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German, French, got her first drawing and music

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lessons over there. Here's a little connection,

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maybe. It's actually pretty likely she first

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saw work by artists like Ingra, and crucially,

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her future mentors, Degas and Pizarro, at the

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big Paris World's Fair in 1855. So the seeds

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were planted very early on. Seems like it. Okay,

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so she's got the foundation, she's seen Europe,

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but then she decides, I want to be a professional

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artist. And the family... Oh, they staged basically

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a full scale intervention. Total objection. Really?

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Yeah. She started studying at the Pennsylvania

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Academy of the Fine Arts P .M. when she was just

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15 back in 1859. Her parents were seriously worried

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about, you know, feminist ideas. And what seems

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funny now, the bohemian behavior of the male

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students. Art was fine as a hobby for a lady,

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you know, not a career. That kind of anxiety

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must have just fueled her determination, though.

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You think so, right? Seems it did. Cassatt was

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determined. Even then, she and her friends were

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apparently fierce advocates for equal rights.

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Lifelong thing for her. But the training itself

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at PFA, she wasn't impressed. Not at all. She

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found it frustrating, useless ultimately, studied

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there till 65, but later just dismissed it. Famously

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said there was no teaching. Just flat out. So

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what was so bad about it? What were the specific

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problems for women students then? Well, the restrictions

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were just severe. And purely based on gender.

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Female students couldn't use live models, not

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early on anyway. Seriously, what did they do

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instead? Plaster casts. Hours and hours drawing

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from casts of old statues. The whole atmosphere

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was apparently patronizing, slow. So that impatience

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with the system, that must have started right

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there. Absolutely. Seeing firsthand how the institution

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held her back just because she was a woman. That

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directly feeds into her later embrace of impressionism,

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her rejection of the whole academic structure.

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She learned early on that institutional approval

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wasn't the goal. It was maybe even flawed. Which

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makes her decision to go to Paris almost inevitable,

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doesn't it? It really does. That dissatisfaction

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just built up. So 1866, she finally overcomes

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her father's objections, moves to Paris. The

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art capital. But not on her own. Had to have

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chaperones. Because remember, women couldn't

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just waltz into the École des Beaux -Arts, the

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main art school. So how did she study? Private

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lessons. She studied with established academic

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masters like Jean -Leon Jerome. Known for that

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super realistic, almost photographic style, right?

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Exactly. Hyper realism. And also Thomas Couture,

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who did more romantic urban scenes. So she's

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learning the establishment techniques. while

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kind of getting ready to reject their whole philosophy.

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Pretty much. And the real key to her development,

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arguably, wasn't even in those studios. It was

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in the Louvre. Helping the masters. Hours and

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hours just copying the greats. It was critical

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for her technique, but it was also, interestingly,

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a social thing. Also. Well, the Louvre became

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this sort of acceptable social space for American

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women art students. They couldn't hang out in

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the avant garde cafes where all the male artists

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were arguing and networking. Right. So they met

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and connected with each other, like Elizabeth

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Jane Gardner, while copying paintings. And she

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actually found some success within that system.

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the salon system, even while starting to resent

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it. She did, for a bit. 1868, her painting, a

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mandolin player done in that acceptable romantic

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style, gets accepted by the Paris Salon Jury.

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Which is a big deal. Huge deal. Made her one

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of the first two American women to exhibit there

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that year. She kept submitting for about 10 years,

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trying to walk that line between her ambition

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and the establishment's rules. But getting more

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frustrated. Definitely. The whole French art

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scene was shifting dramatically. She called it

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chaos. as artists started rejecting the old academic

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traditions, her frustration was building. And

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then came this major interruption. The Franco

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-Prussian War sends her back to the U .S. in

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1870. And this sounds like a real low point for

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her. Altoona, Pennsylvania. Oh, it was a crisis

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point. A humiliating step back. Her family paid

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for her basic needs, food and shelter, sure,

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but her father, point blank, refused to pay for

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art supplies. No way. Yeah. No studio costs,

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no paints. She tried desperately to sell her

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work in New York, couldn't do it, and then disaster

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strikes. The Great Chicago Fire of 1871. Wiped

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out a bunch of her early work that was stored

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there. She was apparently so devastated she seriously

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thought about just giving up art entirely. Wow.

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Yeah, find some other way to make a living, be

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independent. She wrote this despairing letter

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saying she'd given up my studio and torn up my

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father's portrait and have not touched a brush

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for six weeks nor ever will again until I see

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some prospect of getting back to Europe. That's

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bleak. But thankfully that prospect did arrive.

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And it gave her back her independence, financially

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speaking. Ah, it did, yeah. A commission came

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through from the Bishop of Pittsburgh, Michael

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Dominick. A bishop. Yep. Hired her to go to Parma,

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Italy, and copy paintings by Correggio. It wasn't

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a fortune, but it was enough. Enough money and

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enough excitement about returning to Europe to

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just reignite everything. And that's when she

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wrote that amazing line. Oh, yeah. Oh, how wild

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I am to get to work. My fingers fairly itch and

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my eyes water to see a fine picture again. You

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feel that hunger, right? Totally. That raw need.

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And that propelled her back. Yeah. Back to Europe

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in 1871, ready to really make her mark. Okay,

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so Cassatt returns to Europe. Act two begins.

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And she's still having some success with the

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salon, but she's deeply cynical about it now.

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Completely cynical. And her critique was really

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rooted in her experience as a woman in that system.

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She was brutally honest about the politics. What

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did she say? She pointed out that, you know,

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works by women artists were often just dismissed

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unless the artist had a friend or protector on

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the jury. Nepotism, basically. Pretty much. And

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she refused to play those games, wouldn't flirt,

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wouldn't try to curry favor to get ahead. That

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kind of integrity, well, it meant rejection was

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almost guaranteed eventually. Again, 1877. Yep.

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Both her submissions to the salon that year,

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rejected, left her at this really critical low

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point. Perfect timing, in retrospect, because

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right then she gets the invitation. The invitation.

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Edgar Degas asks her to exhibit with the Impressionists.

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Faith. It really feels like it. Cassatt already

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knew Degas' work, his pastels especially. She'd

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seen them in 1875 and said, it changed my life.

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I saw art then as I wanted to see it. Wow. So

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she accepted immediately, jumped right in, joined

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their despairing fight, as she put it. So the

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Salon's rejection basically pushed her right

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into the arms of the avant -garde. What did it

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really mean, though, to join the impressionists,

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the independents, the intransigents back then?

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It meant turning your back on the salon, on that

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central authority. They didn't have like a formal

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manifesto, but they shared core ideas. Like painting

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outdoors. Right. Plain air painting. And trying

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to capture that fleeting impression of a moment

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using vibrant color, often in these separate

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visible brushstrokes. And Gassot was the only

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American officially in the group. The only one.

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And she went all in, exhibited in half of their

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later shows. immediately started carrying a sketchbook

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everywhere, just like them, capturing scenes

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on the fly, outdoors, at the theater. And you

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see her style change pretty quickly, right? More

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spontaneity. Absolutely. More spontaneity, but

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also real rigor. She was dedicated to depicting

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movement, light, design in this totally modern

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way. It put her right up there with the leaders.

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There was this critic, Diego Martelli. In 1879,

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he actually compared her directly to Degas, said

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they both had that modern sense of design and

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movement. She wasn't just tagging along. And

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that 1879 Impressionist show, that was a big

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one for them financially, too. And she and Degas

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kind of rose above the criticism. Yeah, it was

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their most successful show yet, money -wise.

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And yeah, even the really harsh traditional critics

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had to admit Degas and Cassatt stood out. There's

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this great review from the Revue des Demandes.

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What did it say? It basically said, amidst all

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the infantile daubing, that's how they saw a

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lot of Impressionism. Degas and Cassatt were

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the only artists who distinguished themselves.

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So she wasn't just participating. She was seen

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as a leader. Exactly. She'd arrived. And then

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she immediately reinvests in the movement, puts

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her money where her mouth is. Totally. Uses her

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share of the profits from that show to buy work

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by Degas and Monet. Smart move. Very. It showed

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she wasn't just an artist in the group. She was

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invested, a believer, a patron herself, really.

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Now, during all this, her family situation changes,

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too. Her parents and sister Lydia actually moved

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to Paris in 1877. Right. They come over to live

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with her. So she has that family closeness, but

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it's alongside this very clear decision she'd

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made early on. Marriage, conventional family

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life, not compatible with her career. That was

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non -negotiable for her. Seems like it. And she's

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navigating family pressures, especially money.

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Her father insisted her studio, her supplies,

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they had to be paid for by her sales. Which weren't

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huge at first. Right, pretty meager early on.

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That pressure, that need to sell, instead of

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discouraging her, it actually became this huge

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driver. Pushed her to be professional, rigorous,

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focused on producing quality work for exhibitions.

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It's kind of ironic. The financial pressure meant

00:12:32.139 --> 00:12:34.279
to make her quit maybe actually fueled her success.

00:12:34.909 --> 00:12:36.889
You could definitely argue that. We see her really

00:12:36.889 --> 00:12:39.309
finding her voice in works from around that time,

00:12:39.370 --> 00:12:42.830
like 1878, little girl in a blue armchair with

00:12:42.830 --> 00:12:45.149
that impressionist feel. And reading Le Figaro,

00:12:45.210 --> 00:12:47.389
that powerful portrait of her mother. Exactly.

00:12:47.389 --> 00:12:49.590
She's developing this voice and it's a voice

00:12:49.590 --> 00:12:51.929
that's about to make a big impact back across

00:12:51.929 --> 00:12:54.769
the Atlantic because we have to talk about her

00:12:54.769 --> 00:12:58.470
role in bringing impressionism to America. She

00:12:58.470 --> 00:13:01.389
was the key connection, wasn't she? Largely through

00:13:01.389 --> 00:13:04.129
her friend, Louisine Elder. Absolutely central.

00:13:04.240 --> 00:13:08.320
Louisine married Harry Havemeyer in 1883. Cassatt

00:13:08.320 --> 00:13:10.779
immediately becomes their go -to advisor, their

00:13:10.779 --> 00:13:13.159
trusted eye. Guiding their collecting. Guiding

00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:15.659
them to collect Impressionists on a grand scale.

00:13:15.940 --> 00:13:18.399
She'd often secure pieces for them directly from

00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:21.620
the artists in Paris. The impact of this, it's

00:13:21.620 --> 00:13:23.519
massive. Because that collection ended up...

00:13:23.519 --> 00:13:26.580
At the Met. It forms the core of their impressionist

00:13:26.580 --> 00:13:28.940
and post -impressionist holdings. So Cassatt

00:13:28.940 --> 00:13:31.419
didn't just paint modern art. She literally helped

00:13:31.419 --> 00:13:33.559
build the American institutions that would house

00:13:33.559 --> 00:13:37.200
it. Incredible. So by the mid -1880s, she's helped

00:13:37.200 --> 00:13:39.059
launch a movement in the U .S., but she starts

00:13:39.059 --> 00:13:41.080
moving away from the impressionist label herself.

00:13:41.419 --> 00:13:44.639
Yeah, around 1886, she shifts. Her style becomes

00:13:44.639 --> 00:13:46.980
maybe simpler, more straightforward, as some

00:13:46.980 --> 00:13:49.379
critics say. She starts experimenting more, especially

00:13:49.379 --> 00:13:51.580
with printmaking. We'll get to that. Okay. And

00:13:51.580 --> 00:13:53.960
she explicitly stops identifying with... any

00:13:53.960 --> 00:13:57.139
single movement she refused to be boxed in started

00:13:57.139 --> 00:13:59.620
exhibiting in new york galleries too cementing

00:13:59.620 --> 00:14:02.299
her status beyond just paris so mary cassatt

00:14:02.299 --> 00:14:04.240
wasn't just painting the new woman she really

00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:06.580
was the new woman this intellectual successful

00:14:06.580 --> 00:14:10.059
highly trained artist who made a conscious choice

00:14:10.990 --> 00:14:13.509
career over marriage. She totally personified

00:14:13.509 --> 00:14:16.429
it. And she was vocal about equality from early

00:14:16.429 --> 00:14:19.490
on, like in the 1860s, pushing for equal travel

00:14:19.490 --> 00:14:22.029
scholarships for women artists. Right. And much

00:14:22.029 --> 00:14:24.570
later, her strong support for women's suffrage

00:14:24.570 --> 00:14:27.269
in the 1910s, like contemporaries, artists like

00:14:27.269 --> 00:14:30.309
Cecilia Bow, she embodied that independent, socially

00:14:30.309 --> 00:14:33.169
active, career -driven identity. But what's really

00:14:33.169 --> 00:14:35.289
interesting is how her art reflected this without

00:14:35.289 --> 00:14:38.659
being overtly political, like propaganda. Exactly.

00:14:38.860 --> 00:14:41.220
That's a subtlety, isn't it? She wasn't painting

00:14:41.220 --> 00:14:44.700
protest signs. She painted people, women. But

00:14:44.700 --> 00:14:47.740
her portrayal was always respectful, dignified,

00:14:47.860 --> 00:14:51.100
suggesting this deeper, meaningful inner life.

00:14:51.279 --> 00:14:53.820
Treating their lives, even domestic ones, as

00:14:53.820 --> 00:14:56.759
worthy subjects for serious art. Precisely. And

00:14:56.759 --> 00:14:58.879
this is where her being a woman gave her this

00:14:58.879 --> 00:15:02.039
unique artistic edge. She could redefine that

00:15:02.039 --> 00:15:05.340
domestic space. To get high art. Yeah. Male impressionists

00:15:05.340 --> 00:15:07.279
were painting the boulevards, the cafes, the

00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:10.899
races, the public world. Cassatt had access to

00:15:10.899 --> 00:15:12.960
the private world. Where men couldn't easily

00:15:12.960 --> 00:15:15.500
go. Right. The daily routines, women's friendships,

00:15:15.659 --> 00:15:17.860
quiet moments at home. She could paint these

00:15:17.860 --> 00:15:20.139
scenes with an intimacy that a male artist likely

00:15:20.139 --> 00:15:22.509
couldn't achieve without seeming like... Well,

00:15:22.549 --> 00:15:24.990
like an intruder or a voyeur. But she did tackle

00:15:24.990 --> 00:15:27.070
that idea of voyeurism in public spaces, didn't

00:15:27.070 --> 00:15:30.149
she? In the Loge. Oh, masterfully. That's from

00:15:30.149 --> 00:15:33.129
1878. It shows a woman in an opera box looking

00:15:33.129 --> 00:15:35.730
quite absorbed, maybe looking at the stage. But

00:15:35.730 --> 00:15:38.549
then you see it. The man across the way? Exactly.

00:15:38.629 --> 00:15:41.769
A man in another box staring right at her through

00:15:41.769 --> 00:15:44.970
his opera glasses. Cassatt is exposing that dynamic.

00:15:45.820 --> 00:15:48.919
How public space, even a fancy opera house, was

00:15:48.919 --> 00:15:51.039
a place where women were constantly being watched,

00:15:51.299 --> 00:15:54.460
judged, consumed by the male gaze. It flips the

00:15:54.460 --> 00:15:56.879
script on the typical passive impressionist female

00:15:56.879 --> 00:16:00.000
figure. Totally. Her women are active. They're

00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:02.320
active observers with real engagement in their

00:16:02.320 --> 00:16:04.799
environments. They're reading, thinking, talking,

00:16:04.879 --> 00:16:07.720
or like in the lodge, navigating the complexities

00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:11.899
of being seen. It's a world away from, say, Renoir's

00:16:11.899 --> 00:16:13.960
lounging beauties. Okay, now we have to talk

00:16:13.960 --> 00:16:16.330
about the mother and child theme. because that's

00:16:16.330 --> 00:16:18.009
what she becomes most famous for, especially

00:16:18.009 --> 00:16:20.549
later in her career. It really dominates her

00:16:20.549 --> 00:16:23.289
reputation after 1900, just this huge series

00:16:23.289 --> 00:16:26.269
of paintings, prints, incredibly rigorously drawn,

00:16:26.450 --> 00:16:29.110
but also so tenderly observed. And they often

00:16:29.110 --> 00:16:31.210
echo those Renaissance Madonna and Child paintings,

00:16:31.330 --> 00:16:33.429
don't they? They do. There's a kind of classical

00:16:33.429 --> 00:16:35.450
reverence she brings to this modern relationship,

00:16:35.610 --> 00:16:37.549
but here's the fascinating contradiction. One

00:16:37.549 --> 00:16:40.649
we keep coming back to. Yeah. She herself explicitly

00:16:40.649 --> 00:16:44.289
chose not to marry or have children. She used

00:16:44.289 --> 00:16:46.789
professional models for these paintings. So she's

00:16:46.789 --> 00:16:50.029
intensely focused on depicting a bond she consciously

00:16:50.029 --> 00:16:53.110
decided not to experience herself. Exactly. And

00:16:53.110 --> 00:16:55.970
that distance, that space between her life choices

00:16:55.970 --> 00:16:59.129
and the universal truth she's capturing, it's

00:16:59.129 --> 00:17:01.090
really interesting to think about. Does it give

00:17:01.090 --> 00:17:03.259
her a different perspective? More objective,

00:17:03.399 --> 00:17:06.880
maybe? Perhaps. Maybe less sentimental. She could

00:17:06.880 --> 00:17:09.160
focus on the essence of that bond, maybe, without

00:17:09.160 --> 00:17:11.619
the filter of personal experience clouding it.

00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:14.619
It's debatable, but it's a key tension in her

00:17:14.619 --> 00:17:16.920
work. And her commitment to her principles, her

00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:20.200
feminist ideals, it led to a pretty major public

00:17:20.200 --> 00:17:22.799
clash later on involving her family. Right. The

00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:25.500
suffrage exhibition in 1915. Her good friend,

00:17:25.640 --> 00:17:27.740
Louisine Havemeyer, who was a very committed

00:17:27.740 --> 00:17:30.299
feminist. The collector. Right. She organized

00:17:30.299 --> 00:17:32.920
this exhibition to support the cause of women's

00:17:32.920 --> 00:17:36.799
suffrage. Cassatt contributes 18 pieces, a clear

00:17:36.799 --> 00:17:39.519
public political stance. Which did not go down

00:17:39.519 --> 00:17:41.599
well with everyone in the family. Not at all.

00:17:41.660 --> 00:17:44.220
Her sister -in -law, Eugenie Carter Cassatt,

00:17:44.319 --> 00:17:47.460
who lived in Philadelphia society, was staunchly

00:17:47.460 --> 00:17:50.539
anti -suffrage. Major conflict. What happened?

00:17:50.579 --> 00:17:52.640
Eugenie and a lot of Philly society actually

00:17:52.640 --> 00:17:56.250
boycotted the show. Public snub. Wow. And Cassatt's

00:17:56.250 --> 00:17:58.769
response? Decisive and very public, too. She

00:17:58.769 --> 00:18:00.789
started selling off artworks that she had originally

00:18:00.789 --> 00:18:03.569
intended for her heirs. Like, fine, if you don't

00:18:03.569 --> 00:18:05.190
support this, you don't get these paintings.

00:18:05.509 --> 00:18:08.690
That's bold. Artistic retaliation. Totally. And

00:18:08.690 --> 00:18:11.069
it was around then that one of her masterpieces,

00:18:11.450 --> 00:18:14.089
The Boating Party from 1893, which some people

00:18:14.089 --> 00:18:16.430
think was inspired by Eugenie's daughter, was

00:18:16.430 --> 00:18:19.210
bought by the National Gallery in D .C. She chose

00:18:19.210 --> 00:18:21.970
her principles over that family legacy. Okay,

00:18:22.009 --> 00:18:24.119
let's shift to the big relationship. Cassatt

00:18:24.119 --> 00:18:26.819
and Degas, probably one of the most famous and

00:18:26.819 --> 00:18:29.359
complex artistic partnerships ever. They were

00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:31.559
literally neighbors in Paris. Yeah, studios less

00:18:31.559 --> 00:18:34.180
than a five minute walk apart, super close. And

00:18:34.180 --> 00:18:36.700
that closeness led to this really intense collaboration

00:18:36.700 --> 00:18:40.299
over years. Degas was a mentor figure then. Definitely.

00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:43.559
For all his eccentricities, he was frequently

00:18:43.559 --> 00:18:46.200
in her studio, giving advice, helping her get

00:18:46.200 --> 00:18:48.319
models, which wasn't always easy. And they had

00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:51.480
stuff in common beyond art. They did. Both came

00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:53.680
from wealthy backgrounds, both studied in Italy,

00:18:53.839 --> 00:18:56.319
fiercely independent, neither married, and they

00:18:56.319 --> 00:18:59.059
both saw themselves primarily as figure painters,

00:18:59.259 --> 00:19:02.180
shared tastes in art, literature. And he was

00:19:02.180 --> 00:19:04.240
key in getting her to explore new techniques,

00:19:04.359 --> 00:19:06.880
right? Beyond oil painting. Hugely important

00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:09.519
there. Especially pastel, which gives you that

00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:13.559
amazing immediacy and color vibrancy and printmaking.

00:19:14.039 --> 00:19:16.119
Specifically, dry point. Can you just quickly

00:19:16.119 --> 00:19:17.920
explain dry point again for our listeners? Sure.

00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:20.140
It's an etching technique. But instead of using

00:19:20.140 --> 00:19:22.700
acid, the artist scratches directly onto the

00:19:22.700 --> 00:19:25.319
copper plate with a sharp needle. This pushes

00:19:25.319 --> 00:19:27.980
up a little ridge of metal called a burr. Oh.

00:19:28.200 --> 00:19:31.119
And that burr holds ink in a unique way, giving

00:19:31.119 --> 00:19:34.240
the printed line this really rich sort of velvety

00:19:34.240 --> 00:19:36.920
quality. Magas even lent her his own printing

00:19:36.920 --> 00:19:39.279
press. Her drawing skills just soared under his

00:19:39.279 --> 00:19:40.900
guidance. And they were experimenting together

00:19:40.900 --> 00:19:44.130
constantly. All the time, trying weird materials

00:19:44.130 --> 00:19:47.569
like distemper, metallic paints. You see that

00:19:47.569 --> 00:19:50.289
in works like Woman Standing Holding a Fan. And

00:19:50.289 --> 00:19:52.569
you also see Cassatt using printmaking to reflect

00:19:52.569 --> 00:19:55.549
on herself, her status, that dry point reflection

00:19:55.549 --> 00:19:59.009
from around 1889. Yes. Many see it as this really

00:19:59.009 --> 00:20:01.710
thoughtful self -portrait, capturing the seriousness

00:20:01.710 --> 00:20:03.690
she brought to being an artist. And the influence

00:20:03.690 --> 00:20:06.329
flowed both ways, right? She was helping him,

00:20:06.369 --> 00:20:09.029
too. Oh, absolutely. She was his main connection

00:20:09.029 --> 00:20:11.450
to the American market, helped him sell paintings,

00:20:11.730 --> 00:20:13.789
talked him up to collectors like the Havemeyers,

00:20:13.970 --> 00:20:17.130
crucial for his reputation and income in America.

00:20:17.569 --> 00:20:20.170
Degas knew her value. He even did etchings of

00:20:20.170 --> 00:20:22.349
her studying art in the Louvre. For that Prince

00:20:22.349 --> 00:20:24.009
Journal they were planning. Exactly. That was

00:20:24.009 --> 00:20:26.390
meant to be a big collaboration. That collaboration,

00:20:26.509 --> 00:20:28.690
while close, was also pretty volatile. That Prince

00:20:28.690 --> 00:20:31.440
Journal project. didn't end well. No, it collapsed.

00:20:31.559 --> 00:20:35.160
That period, 1879 -80, was probably peak collaboration.

00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:38.559
Cassatt was deep into mastering printmaking on

00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:41.259
Degas' press, working really hard on prints like

00:20:41.259 --> 00:20:44.640
in the opera box for the journal. And then Degas,

00:20:44.700 --> 00:20:48.059
who was famously fickle, just abruptly pulled

00:20:48.059 --> 00:20:50.880
out. April 1880, the whole project just folded.

00:20:51.079 --> 00:20:54.079
Cassatt was furious, understandably, put in all

00:20:54.079 --> 00:20:56.599
that work. She learned, I think, that you couldn't

00:20:56.599 --> 00:20:59.200
always rely on his fickle and temperamental nature,

00:20:59.220 --> 00:21:02.220
despite their deep artistic connection. OK, but

00:21:02.220 --> 00:21:05.140
I have to push on this a bit. Cassatt, the ultimate

00:21:05.140 --> 00:21:10.019
new woman feminist advocate. How did she square

00:21:10.019 --> 00:21:12.960
that with her deep affection for Degas, who was

00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:15.579
known for making pretty anti -female remarks?

00:21:15.759 --> 00:21:18.410
Was it just pragmatism? That's the million -dollar

00:21:18.410 --> 00:21:20.150
question about their relationship, isn't it?

00:21:20.170 --> 00:21:21.970
And maybe about Cassatt's whole professional

00:21:21.970 --> 00:21:24.170
navigation. We know she'd sometimes repeat his

00:21:24.170 --> 00:21:26.750
less pleasant comments almost affectionately,

00:21:26.769 --> 00:21:29.650
like his reaction to her painting two women picking

00:21:29.650 --> 00:21:32.049
fruit. What did he say? No woman has the right

00:21:32.049 --> 00:21:34.589
to draw like that. Wow. Backhanded compliment

00:21:34.589 --> 00:21:37.289
much. Totally. It's such a layered dynamic. Some

00:21:37.289 --> 00:21:38.809
scholars think, yeah, maybe it was a kind of

00:21:38.809 --> 00:21:41.569
defense mechanism. By treating his misogyny as

00:21:41.569 --> 00:21:43.970
just eccentricity, she could sort of compartmentalize

00:21:43.970 --> 00:21:45.690
it. And keep getting the benefit of his mentorship.

00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:49.200
Exactly. Keep accessing his technical genius,

00:21:49.380 --> 00:21:52.119
his critical eye, his connections. Maybe it was

00:21:52.119 --> 00:21:55.400
a necessary transaction, you know? Protected

00:21:55.400 --> 00:21:57.680
by real affection, but still a transaction on

00:21:57.680 --> 00:21:59.960
some level. And the one thing that really seemed

00:21:59.960 --> 00:22:02.420
to bother her personally was the portrait he

00:22:02.420 --> 00:22:05.619
painted of her. Oh, yeah. The oil portrait, Mary

00:22:05.619 --> 00:22:08.539
Cassatt seated, holding cards, painted sometime

00:22:08.539 --> 00:22:11.779
in the early 1880s. She grew to really, really

00:22:11.779 --> 00:22:14.400
hate that painting. Why? We don't know exactly

00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:16.559
why, but years later she wrote to her dealer,

00:22:16.720 --> 00:22:18.799
Paul Duran Rule, basically saying, don't let

00:22:18.799 --> 00:22:21.359
anyone know I posed for this. It's like, she

00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:23.640
accepted his artistic input, but she wanted control

00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:25.940
over her own image, and his version of her was

00:22:25.940 --> 00:22:28.640
one she ultimately rejected, fiercely guarded

00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:31.299
her public persona. And we also can't skip over

00:22:31.299 --> 00:22:33.519
the big political split that really tested their

00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:35.599
friendship later on. The Dreyfus Affair. Yeah,

00:22:35.720 --> 00:22:38.480
that tore France apart in the 1890s. And it split

00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:40.359
the Impressionist circle, too. Where did they

00:22:40.359 --> 00:22:43.700
land? Degas was vehemently anti -Dreyfus, which

00:22:43.700 --> 00:22:46.119
kind of aligned with his more conservative, sometimes

00:22:46.119 --> 00:22:49.319
anti -Semitic views, sadly. Cassatt, on the other

00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:51.700
hand, was firmly pro -Dreyfus, alongside Monet

00:22:51.700 --> 00:22:54.660
and Pissarro. That's a huge divide. Massive.

00:22:54.660 --> 00:22:57.720
A fundamental clash of values. But somehow, despite

00:22:57.720 --> 00:23:00.500
that chasm, they managed to keep the friendship

00:23:00.500 --> 00:23:03.119
going, continue to visit each other until Degas

00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:05.940
died in 1917. though apparently the relationship

00:23:05.940 --> 00:23:07.779
became much more focused on the business side

00:23:07.779 --> 00:23:10.420
of art, the commercial aspect, from the 1890s

00:23:10.420 --> 00:23:13.759
onward. Okay, so moving into the 1890s, this

00:23:13.759 --> 00:23:16.940
seems to be Cassatt's absolute peak period. She's

00:23:16.940 --> 00:23:19.660
not the student anymore, she's the master, taking

00:23:19.660 --> 00:23:22.579
on a mentor role herself. Yeah, her influence

00:23:22.579 --> 00:23:24.619
really broadens. She becomes more diplomatic,

00:23:24.819 --> 00:23:26.980
apparently, and starts advising younger American

00:23:26.980 --> 00:23:30.440
artists like Lucy A. Bacon. And this decade also

00:23:30.440 --> 00:23:33.160
brings what many consider her truly most original

00:23:33.160 --> 00:23:36.059
contribution. The color prints. Those groundbreaking

00:23:36.059 --> 00:23:38.539
color drypoint and acquaintance prints she exhibited

00:23:38.539 --> 00:23:41.039
in 1891. Just stunning. And this is where that

00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:43.259
Japonism influence really comes through strongly.

00:23:43.359 --> 00:23:45.160
These Japanese woodblock prints everyone was

00:23:45.160 --> 00:23:47.680
talking about. Absolutely. She saw that big show

00:23:47.680 --> 00:23:50.259
of Japanese masters in Paris in 1890 and was

00:23:50.259 --> 00:23:53.660
just captivated. Adapted that aesthetic brilliantly.

00:23:53.819 --> 00:23:56.529
How so? What did she take from it? The simplicity,

00:23:56.769 --> 00:23:59.490
the clarity of the design, those strong, clean

00:23:59.490 --> 00:24:03.150
outlines defining flat areas of color. And technically,

00:24:03.289 --> 00:24:06.049
she achieved those flat color areas using aquatint.

00:24:06.230 --> 00:24:08.309
Which is different from dry point. Yeah, aquatint

00:24:08.309 --> 00:24:11.029
is another etching variation. It lets you create

00:24:11.029 --> 00:24:13.769
tones, sort of like watercolor washes, these

00:24:13.769 --> 00:24:17.150
beautiful flat blocks of delicate color. It was

00:24:17.150 --> 00:24:19.829
a huge departure from those feathery impressionist

00:24:19.829 --> 00:24:22.690
strokes. And she deliberately avoided using black

00:24:22.690 --> 00:24:25.450
outlines, preferring lighter colors. It's like

00:24:25.450 --> 00:24:28.089
she fused impressionist color sense with the

00:24:28.089 --> 00:24:30.509
bold graphic design of Japanese prints. That's

00:24:30.509 --> 00:24:32.589
a perfect way to put it. Art experts consistently

00:24:32.589 --> 00:24:35.289
say these prints, like Woman Bathing, the Coiffure,

00:24:35.430 --> 00:24:37.730
they're her most original work. Technically,

00:24:37.730 --> 00:24:39.970
maybe never surpassed in color printmaking. She

00:24:39.970 --> 00:24:42.009
wasn't just following trends. She was innovating

00:24:42.009 --> 00:24:44.089
at the highest level. And this creative peak

00:24:44.089 --> 00:24:47.089
leads to... potentially her biggest public project,

00:24:47.309 --> 00:24:50.150
that huge mural for the Chicago World's Fair

00:24:50.150 --> 00:24:53.670
in 1893. The World's Columbian Exposition? Yeah,

00:24:53.789 --> 00:24:55.190
it should have been her crowning achievement,

00:24:55.430 --> 00:24:58.250
commissioned by the Chicago socialite Bertha

00:24:58.250 --> 00:25:00.470
Palmer for the women's building. Massive scale,

00:25:00.549 --> 00:25:04.450
right? Huge. 12 feet high, 58 feet long. The

00:25:04.450 --> 00:25:07.779
theme was modern woman. It was basically Cassatt

00:25:07.779 --> 00:25:10.599
laying out her whole philosophy on a giant canvas.

00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:12.920
What exactly did it depict? What was the message?

00:25:13.220 --> 00:25:15.880
It was designed as a triptych, three panels celebrating

00:25:15.880 --> 00:25:18.779
women's independence from men. The center panel

00:25:18.779 --> 00:25:20.980
was called Young Women Plucking the Fruits of

00:25:20.980 --> 00:25:23.700
Knowledge or Science. Love that. Right. And the

00:25:23.700 --> 00:25:27.019
side panels were young girls pursuing fame and

00:25:27.019 --> 00:25:30.599
arts, music, dancing. It was all about women

00:25:30.599 --> 00:25:33.640
striving, achieving, creating completely on their

00:25:33.640 --> 00:25:37.500
own terms. Radical statement for 1893. We can't

00:25:37.500 --> 00:25:39.759
see it today. It's lost, isn't it? Tragically,

00:25:39.779 --> 00:25:42.140
yes. It's a massive loss for art history. After

00:25:42.140 --> 00:25:44.240
the fair closed, Bertha Palmer took possession

00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:47.019
of it. But after Palmer died in 1918, the mural

00:25:47.019 --> 00:25:49.519
just disappeared. No one knows where. No idea.

00:25:49.579 --> 00:25:51.440
Probably destroyed, maybe just lost in storage

00:25:51.440 --> 00:25:53.519
somewhere. But even just knowing about it tells

00:25:53.519 --> 00:25:56.059
you so much about her commitment to female independence.

00:25:56.519 --> 00:25:59.859
So as the 1900s begin, her role shifts again,

00:25:59.940 --> 00:26:02.380
more towards influencing institutions. Yeah,

00:26:02.420 --> 00:26:04.519
she becomes this quiet powerhouse behind the

00:26:04.519 --> 00:26:07.440
scenes, still advising major American collectors.

00:26:07.799 --> 00:26:10.779
And crucially, she kept insisting that they eventually

00:26:10.779 --> 00:26:14.019
donate their purchases to American museums. Securing

00:26:14.019 --> 00:26:16.809
the land. legacy. Exactly. Ensuring Impressionism

00:26:16.809 --> 00:26:19.910
had a permanent public home in the U .S. Her

00:26:19.910 --> 00:26:22.450
contribution was as much about curation and legacy

00:26:22.450 --> 00:26:24.509
building as it was about her own painting by

00:26:24.509 --> 00:26:26.809
then. Did she get recognition in her lifetime?

00:26:27.549 --> 00:26:30.109
awards and things? She did, though maybe slower

00:26:30.109 --> 00:26:32.029
in the U .S. than in France. France gave her

00:26:32.029 --> 00:26:34.650
the Légion d 'Honneur in 1904, which is a huge

00:26:34.650 --> 00:26:37.069
deal. Yeah. Apparently, recognition in the U

00:26:37.069 --> 00:26:39.250
.S. was a bit slower. She was often overshadowed

00:26:39.250 --> 00:26:41.509
by her very famous brother, Alexander Cassatt,

00:26:41.670 --> 00:26:44.309
the railroad president, until he died in 1906.

00:26:44.710 --> 00:26:47.089
And then, around 1910, things start to decline,

00:26:47.329 --> 00:26:50.029
physically and maybe creatively. Seems so. There

00:26:50.029 --> 00:26:52.289
was a trip to Egypt in 1910. The ancient art

00:26:52.289 --> 00:26:54.990
there just overwhelmed her, made her feel inadequate,

00:26:55.210 --> 00:26:58.119
almost. Yeah, she said she felt crushed by the

00:26:58.119 --> 00:27:01.240
strength of this art and despaired asking how

00:27:01.240 --> 00:27:03.460
are my feeble hands to ever paint the effect

00:27:03.460 --> 00:27:06.259
on me after that her work is often described

00:27:06.259 --> 00:27:09.079
as becoming less innovative ironically maybe

00:27:09.079 --> 00:27:11.299
more sentimental which she'd always avoided and

00:27:11.299 --> 00:27:13.539
then her health starts to fail yeah pretty soon

00:27:13.539 --> 00:27:16.420
after that by 1911 she's diagnosed with a whole

00:27:16.420 --> 00:27:19.519
list of things diabetes rheumatism neuralgia

00:27:20.140 --> 00:27:22.680
And the worst for an artist, cataracts. Oh no,

00:27:22.859 --> 00:27:25.119
her eyesight. Exactly. She kept painting for

00:27:25.119 --> 00:27:27.539
a few more years, but by 1914 she was nearly

00:27:27.539 --> 00:27:30.759
blind, forced to stop painting altogether. Devastating.

00:27:30.759 --> 00:27:34.000
Truly. She died in 1926 at her country place

00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:36.039
near Paris and was buried there in the family

00:27:36.039 --> 00:27:39.329
vault. But what a legacy she left. National Women's

00:27:39.329 --> 00:27:41.829
Hall of Fame, her paintings selling for millions,

00:27:41.970 --> 00:27:44.230
those postage stamps featuring her work. Yeah,

00:27:44.410 --> 00:27:46.650
the boating party on one, then the Great American

00:27:46.650 --> 00:27:49.029
Series, the American Treasure Series with the

00:27:49.029 --> 00:27:51.650
mother and child paintings, even a WWII Liberty

00:27:51.650 --> 00:27:53.950
ship named after her, and a garden in Paris.

00:27:54.309 --> 00:27:56.349
She really stands as this monument, doesn't she?

00:27:56.430 --> 00:27:59.609
To defiance, incredible skill, and that fierce

00:27:59.609 --> 00:28:02.329
professional independence. An American woman

00:28:02.329 --> 00:28:04.569
who conquered the toughest art scene in the world

00:28:04.569 --> 00:28:07.109
and helped define modern art. Hashtag O -T -E

00:28:07.109 --> 00:28:10.990
-T -R -O. Synthesis and final thought. So let's

00:28:10.990 --> 00:28:13.569
try to wrap this up. When you boil down Mary

00:28:13.569 --> 00:28:16.549
Kasach's incredible life and career, what are

00:28:16.549 --> 00:28:18.710
the absolute key takeaways for us? I think there

00:28:18.710 --> 00:28:21.750
are three main things. First, just her essential

00:28:21.750 --> 00:28:24.349
role in basically forging a professional path

00:28:24.349 --> 00:28:27.640
for... Women artists by defying the salon, by

00:28:27.640 --> 00:28:29.359
proving a woman could reach the absolute highest

00:28:29.359 --> 00:28:32.180
levels of skill and critical acclaim purely on

00:28:32.180 --> 00:28:34.259
her own terms. Yeah, definitely. Number one.

00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:37.440
And second, her critical contribution to impressionism

00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:39.859
itself, not just as an artist who could absolutely

00:28:39.859 --> 00:28:42.519
hold her own with Degas, Monet, Pissarro. Right.

00:28:42.599 --> 00:28:45.859
But as that key figure, that evangelist who strategically

00:28:45.859 --> 00:28:48.200
made sure the movement got collected, got respected

00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:50.920
and got into American museums, ensuring its future.

00:28:51.259 --> 00:28:53.779
And third, I'd say, is her revolutionary focus

00:28:53.779 --> 00:28:56.859
artistically on the dignity, the inner life,

00:28:57.000 --> 00:28:59.599
the intimate reality of women, the ultimate visual

00:28:59.599 --> 00:29:03.180
chronicler of that new woman elevating the domestic,

00:29:03.339 --> 00:29:05.920
showing women as active subjects, not just passive

00:29:05.920 --> 00:29:08.900
objects. Couldn't agree more. And her whole journey,

00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:11.440
it's such a powerful lesson, isn't it? For anyone

00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:14.880
in any field, really, it shows that sometimes

00:29:14.880 --> 00:29:17.619
reaching that highest level of achievement means

00:29:17.619 --> 00:29:20.500
you have to make a break. A complete separation

00:29:20.500 --> 00:29:23.000
from conventional expectations, whether that's

00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:25.319
family pressure, the academic establishment,

00:29:25.579 --> 00:29:27.799
maybe even the difficult aspects of a brilliant

00:29:27.799 --> 00:29:30.660
mentor like Degas. Challenging authority was

00:29:30.660 --> 00:29:32.900
key. So connecting this back to you, our listener,

00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:35.019
and that final thought. Yeah. Cassatt famously

00:29:35.019 --> 00:29:37.420
decided marriage and motherhood wouldn't work

00:29:37.420 --> 00:29:39.779
with her career. It was an explicit choice. Right.

00:29:39.940 --> 00:29:42.299
Yet her most famous, most resonant, most tender

00:29:42.299 --> 00:29:44.859
works are those very paintings and prints of

00:29:44.859 --> 00:29:47.240
the mother and child bond. Subjects she depicted

00:29:47.240 --> 00:29:49.400
with this incredible rigor and universal truth,

00:29:49.579 --> 00:29:53.200
but never lived herself. Yeah. Which leads to

00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:56.000
that final question to shoo on. Did that independence,

00:29:56.299 --> 00:29:58.700
that deliberate distance she maintained from

00:29:58.700 --> 00:30:02.230
being a wife or mother herself. Did that actually

00:30:02.230 --> 00:30:04.450
give her the perspective she needed? The clear

00:30:04.450 --> 00:30:07.170
-eyed focus. Exactly. The critical distance required

00:30:07.170 --> 00:30:09.970
to see and depict the universal emotional truth

00:30:09.970 --> 00:30:12.750
of that maternal bond so perfectly, without maybe

00:30:12.750 --> 00:30:15.269
the complications or sentimentality of personal

00:30:15.269 --> 00:30:18.470
experience. Did rejecting the role in a way enable

00:30:18.470 --> 00:30:20.789
her to render it so masterfully? Something to

00:30:20.789 --> 00:30:22.210
think about next time you're lucky enough to

00:30:22.210 --> 00:30:23.470
stand in front of a Cassatt.
