WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.259 Welcome to the Deep Dive. Today, we're stepping 00:00:03.259 --> 00:00:05.780 away from the usual focus, not the spotlight 00:00:05.780 --> 00:00:08.460 or the piano. We're pulling back the curtain 00:00:08.460 --> 00:00:11.960 on someone absolutely crucial, one of the greatest 00:00:11.960 --> 00:00:15.580 and, wow, most enduring storytellers in modern 00:00:15.580 --> 00:00:18.339 music. Right. A man whose words, I mean, they've 00:00:18.339 --> 00:00:20.820 soundtracked multiple generations, yet his own 00:00:20.820 --> 00:00:24.000 life, his own complexity, often gets a bit overshadowed 00:00:24.000 --> 00:00:26.519 by his partner's, you know, huge stardom. Right. 00:00:26.899 --> 00:00:30.129 We are talking about... Bernie Taupin. Yeah, 00:00:30.250 --> 00:00:32.810 absolutely. When most people think of those decades 00:00:32.810 --> 00:00:36.729 of just smash hits from Elton John, they picture 00:00:36.729 --> 00:00:39.009 the performance, the costumes, the stage presence, 00:00:39.090 --> 00:00:41.829 all that theater. Exactly. But Taupin, he's really 00:00:41.829 --> 00:00:44.149 the silent engine behind it all. He's the, well, 00:00:44.170 --> 00:00:46.409 the tireless source of all that vivid imagery, 00:00:46.490 --> 00:00:48.649 the narrative, the characters that really define 00:00:48.649 --> 00:00:50.969 the sound of that collaboration. He gave it. 00:00:51.229 --> 00:00:53.229 the soul, you could say, the literary backbone. 00:00:53.490 --> 00:00:55.070 That's a great way to put it. And our mission 00:00:55.070 --> 00:00:57.390 today really is to look far beyond just that 00:00:57.390 --> 00:01:00.329 iconic partnership. We want to uncover the complexity 00:01:00.329 --> 00:01:03.210 of Tappan's entire career. As a writer, sure, 00:01:03.409 --> 00:01:07.989 but also as this prolific, genre -hopping collaborator, 00:01:07.989 --> 00:01:11.989 a visual artist, even an experimental performer 00:01:11.989 --> 00:01:14.890 at times, we're giving the lyricist his moment. 00:01:15.030 --> 00:01:16.810 And it's so important. We really need to start 00:01:16.810 --> 00:01:20.430 by just establishing the sheer scale of his importance. 00:01:20.519 --> 00:01:23.319 his longevity. This isn't some fleeting thing. 00:01:23.560 --> 00:01:26.799 No. The collaboration with Elton John started 00:01:26.799 --> 00:01:29.780 way back in 1967. Just think about that for a 00:01:29.780 --> 00:01:33.319 second. Six decades. And the quality, the consistency 00:01:33.319 --> 00:01:37.250 of what they produced. Yeah. It's... That longevity 00:01:37.250 --> 00:01:40.329 is why the big awards are, well, really piling 00:01:40.329 --> 00:01:42.290 up now, late in his career. They got into the 00:01:42.290 --> 00:01:44.390 Songwriters Hall of Fame back in 92, sure. Right, 00:01:44.510 --> 00:01:46.349 ancient history almost. Yeah, but their career 00:01:46.349 --> 00:01:48.409 isn't just history, it's still going. Just this 00:01:48.409 --> 00:01:51.069 year, 2024, they were awarded the Gershwin Prize 00:01:51.069 --> 00:01:53.189 for Popular Song. That's one of the absolute 00:01:53.189 --> 00:01:55.590 highest honors for American music. And Kalpin 00:01:55.590 --> 00:01:58.180 himself, personally. got the Ivor Novello Award 00:01:58.180 --> 00:02:00.079 for Outstanding Contribution to British Music 00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:03.340 in 2024, too. Oh, wow. These recent awards, they 00:02:03.340 --> 00:02:06.280 really feel like timely proof that the industry 00:02:06.280 --> 00:02:08.639 is finally recognizing him as a singular force. 00:02:08.840 --> 00:02:10.909 Yeah. You know, separate from just the hits. 00:02:11.050 --> 00:02:14.210 He's fundamental to how modern popular songs 00:02:14.210 --> 00:02:16.490 are built. And what's just wild is that this 00:02:16.490 --> 00:02:18.629 monumental partnership, the one that basically 00:02:18.629 --> 00:02:20.830 defined the sound of the 70s and kept going. 00:02:20.889 --> 00:02:23.409 Yeah. It was almost completely accidental. Yeah. 00:02:23.449 --> 00:02:26.349 It wasn't some like clever A &R plan or a mutual 00:02:26.349 --> 00:02:29.150 friend connection. It literally sprang from a 00:02:29.150 --> 00:02:31.849 single classified ad. In the New Musical Express. 00:02:32.719 --> 00:02:36.199 The NME. The NME. Incredible. Answering one little 00:02:36.199 --> 00:02:39.639 ad in 1967 changes the course of global music 00:02:39.639 --> 00:02:42.539 history. It's amazing. And that's really where 00:02:42.539 --> 00:02:45.919 our story has to begin, connecting this shy young 00:02:45.919 --> 00:02:48.259 poet from rural isolation with the biggest stages 00:02:48.259 --> 00:02:50.960 in the world. Let's unpack where that poetic 00:02:50.960 --> 00:02:53.280 imagination came from. Okay, so the power, the 00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:56.060 specificity in Taupin's early lyrics, all that 00:02:56.060 --> 00:02:58.620 vivid detail, that sense of place, sometimes 00:02:58.620 --> 00:03:01.340 melancholic, the really grounded characters. 00:03:01.419 --> 00:03:03.360 It makes so much more sense when you look at 00:03:03.360 --> 00:03:05.500 where he actually grew up. He wasn't, you know, 00:03:05.520 --> 00:03:07.979 a product of swinging London or the mod scene. 00:03:08.180 --> 00:03:12.860 He was born in 1950 in a literal, quite isolated 00:03:12.860 --> 00:03:16.000 farmhouse in Lincolnshire. That first place was 00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:19.039 called Flatter's House. And the sources, yeah, 00:03:19.099 --> 00:03:20.599 they confirm it didn't even have electricity 00:03:20.599 --> 00:03:23.360 initially. Wow. Which immediately tinks this 00:03:23.360 --> 00:03:25.539 picture, doesn't it? Remote, almost like stepping 00:03:25.539 --> 00:03:28.620 back in time. His family did move later to a 00:03:28.620 --> 00:03:30.939 more established place called Roston Manor. That 00:03:30.939 --> 00:03:33.340 was after his father, Robert, got a promotion 00:03:33.340 --> 00:03:36.099 to farm manager. So those early years had a kind 00:03:36.099 --> 00:03:39.580 of rustic simplicity, maybe, but definitely a 00:03:39.580 --> 00:03:41.759 connection to the land. But that relative stability, 00:03:42.060 --> 00:03:44.680 it wasn't his whole youth, was it? No, not at 00:03:44.680 --> 00:03:46.500 all. Later in his childhood, they moved again. 00:03:46.919 --> 00:03:49.080 this time to a place called Malt Kiln Farm in 00:03:49.080 --> 00:03:51.860 Omby Byspil. And this move, well, it represented 00:03:51.860 --> 00:03:54.060 a much tougher financial reality. Right. The 00:03:54.060 --> 00:03:55.939 farm was pretty rough, and the family's main 00:03:55.939 --> 00:03:58.860 income came from battery farming chickens for 00:03:58.860 --> 00:04:01.439 eggs. So quite a step down in some ways. Yeah. 00:04:01.520 --> 00:04:03.379 And we shouldn't gloss over the conditions there. 00:04:03.460 --> 00:04:05.800 The house at Malt Kiln Farm, it lacked proper 00:04:05.800 --> 00:04:08.449 heating, didn't have up -to -date plumbing. This 00:04:08.449 --> 00:04:11.009 contrast, you know, moving from a more established 00:04:11.009 --> 00:04:14.469 property to this kind of harsh, gritty reality 00:04:14.469 --> 00:04:17.310 of rural working life where his surroundings 00:04:17.310 --> 00:04:19.550 were much rougher than his ambitions. Yeah. That 00:04:19.550 --> 00:04:22.029 feels absolutely critical to understanding his 00:04:22.029 --> 00:04:24.290 writing voice. I can see that. It must have bred 00:04:24.290 --> 00:04:27.439 this really keen sense of observation. And maybe 00:04:27.439 --> 00:04:29.800 a desire for escape, too. You hear that all through 00:04:29.800 --> 00:04:33.519 his early work, especially on albums like Tumbleweed 00:04:33.519 --> 00:04:35.600 Connection. Yeah, that sense of romanticized 00:04:35.600 --> 00:04:38.740 isolation, maybe, surrounded by hard work, rural 00:04:38.740 --> 00:04:41.879 austerity. But he clearly developed this early 00:04:41.879 --> 00:04:43.699 knack for writing, even though, by all accounts, 00:04:43.839 --> 00:04:46.000 he wasn't exactly a star student academically. 00:04:46.019 --> 00:04:48.560 Not at all. But this is where his family background 00:04:48.560 --> 00:04:51.040 provided something crucial, a kind of counterpoint. 00:04:51.120 --> 00:04:54.060 How so? Well, his mother, Daphne, she'd studied 00:04:54.060 --> 00:04:55.779 French literature. So there was an intellectual 00:04:55.779 --> 00:04:59.139 foundation there in the home. But the real key 00:04:59.139 --> 00:05:01.759 influence, it seems, was his maternal grandfather, 00:05:02.300 --> 00:05:05.220 John Leonard Patchett Court, who he called Poppy 00:05:05.220 --> 00:05:07.379 Court. Poppy Court. And he was. He was a man 00:05:07.379 --> 00:05:10.480 of letters, a Cambridge graduate, actually, and 00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:13.139 a classics teacher. Now, that's a crucial detail, 00:05:13.339 --> 00:05:16.100 isn't it? Definitely. Cambridge classic. He seems 00:05:16.100 --> 00:05:18.649 to have instilled in young Bernie this. deep 00:05:18.649 --> 00:05:22.550 almost classical appreciation for nature for 00:05:22.550 --> 00:05:25.269 narrative structure and for poetry itself so 00:05:25.269 --> 00:05:28.290 how does that classics background you know show 00:05:28.290 --> 00:05:31.209 up in songs that became huge pop hits that seems 00:05:31.209 --> 00:05:33.490 like a leap well i think it manifests in the 00:05:33.490 --> 00:05:36.259 narrative complexity most pop songs especially 00:05:36.259 --> 00:05:38.500 back then, dealt with pretty simple immediate 00:05:38.500 --> 00:05:41.279 emotions, right? Love found, love lost. Sure. 00:05:41.420 --> 00:05:43.740 But Taupin's early work, it often builds character 00:05:43.740 --> 00:05:45.699 arcs, creates whole settings. Look at a song 00:05:45.699 --> 00:05:48.600 like Levon or The King Must Die. These are like 00:05:48.600 --> 00:05:51.000 little short stories set to music. They use classical 00:05:51.000 --> 00:05:54.040 literary devices, allegory, metaphor. It feels 00:05:54.040 --> 00:05:56.060 like a direct line back to the narrative poetry 00:05:56.060 --> 00:05:57.839 he learned to appreciate from his grandfather. 00:05:58.180 --> 00:05:59.959 He wasn't just writing for his chorus verse. 00:06:00.139 --> 00:06:02.399 Sometimes he was crafting these miniature epics. 00:06:02.579 --> 00:06:05.800 So he had this rich inner world developing. But 00:06:05.800 --> 00:06:09.839 his actual life after school sounds, well, profoundly 00:06:09.839 --> 00:06:12.319 aimless for a while. He left school at 15. Yeah, 00:06:12.360 --> 00:06:15.860 15. And the immediate path wasn't music or poetry. 00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:19.139 No, not directly. He worked for a short time 00:06:19.139 --> 00:06:21.720 as a trainee in the print room of the Lincolnshire 00:06:21.720 --> 00:06:24.620 Standard. Apparently had some aspirations towards 00:06:24.620 --> 00:06:27.000 journalism, which, you know, makes sense for 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:29.300 someone with a writing bent. Sure. But when that 00:06:29.300 --> 00:06:32.100 didn't really stick, his mid to late teenage 00:06:32.100 --> 00:06:35.500 years were just spent drifting. Hanging out, 00:06:35.579 --> 00:06:39.000 drinking, hitchhiking to youth club dances. Just 00:06:39.000 --> 00:06:41.439 sort of existing on the fringes, waiting for 00:06:41.439 --> 00:06:43.519 something. It feels like a period of just wandering 00:06:43.519 --> 00:06:46.480 and waiting for, I don't know. inspiration direction. 00:06:46.860 --> 00:06:48.879 Which finally culminated, like we mentioned, 00:06:48.980 --> 00:06:51.660 in that huge moment when he was 17, he sees the 00:06:51.660 --> 00:06:54.699 Liberty Records ad in the NME. Yeah. And that 00:06:54.699 --> 00:06:57.259 ad, it just set this whole incredible career 00:06:57.259 --> 00:06:59.740 in motion. It was just a general call for songwriters, 00:06:59.860 --> 00:07:02.019 wasn't it? It's talent search. Yeah. And here's 00:07:02.019 --> 00:07:04.459 the absolute stroke of fate. Reginald Dwight, 00:07:04.579 --> 00:07:07.040 the guy who had become Elton John, answered the 00:07:07.040 --> 00:07:10.639 exact same advertisement. No way. Yes. Both showed 00:07:10.639 --> 00:07:12.620 up for an audition. Neither of them passed. Both 00:07:12.620 --> 00:07:16.209 rejected. Both rejected. But the A &R man there, 00:07:16.350 --> 00:07:19.470 a guy named Ray Williams, had this, I don't know, 00:07:19.490 --> 00:07:22.529 miraculous foresight or maybe just a practical 00:07:22.529 --> 00:07:25.009 solution. He knew Reginald Dwight was talented 00:07:25.009 --> 00:07:27.389 musically but couldn't write lyrics. Right. And 00:07:27.389 --> 00:07:29.370 he also had this pile of lyrics submitted by 00:07:29.370 --> 00:07:32.050 people who presumably couldn't write music. So 00:07:32.050 --> 00:07:34.129 Williams just handed John a sealed envelope. 00:07:34.490 --> 00:07:37.810 And inside were Taupin's poems. Just like that. 00:07:37.850 --> 00:07:40.089 A sealed envelope. Just like that. It was like 00:07:40.089 --> 00:07:42.790 this perfect prepackaged solution just fell into 00:07:42.790 --> 00:07:45.779 his lap. That's incredible. And the rest, genuinely, 00:07:46.019 --> 00:07:48.180 it started on the London Underground ride home. 00:07:49.180 --> 00:07:51.819 John, rejected by Liberty Records, opens the 00:07:51.819 --> 00:07:54.839 envelope on the train, sees the poetry, and apparently 00:07:54.839 --> 00:07:56.720 started working out melodies almost immediately. 00:07:57.100 --> 00:07:59.199 Wow. The music partnership was born right there. 00:07:59.560 --> 00:08:02.779 Out of shared rejection and the sheer, beautiful 00:08:02.779 --> 00:08:05.120 serendipity of an A &R guy connecting a poet 00:08:05.120 --> 00:08:07.500 from the sticks with a technically brilliant 00:08:07.500 --> 00:08:09.899 pianist from London. It's an origin story that 00:08:09.899 --> 00:08:12.060 just perfectly underscores that theme of collaboration, 00:08:12.339 --> 00:08:15.079 doesn't it? How two people, individually kind 00:08:15.079 --> 00:08:17.339 of incomplete for the job of songwriting, became 00:08:17.339 --> 00:08:20.560 this absolutely unstoppable force together. So 00:08:20.560 --> 00:08:22.759 once they connected, the genius of that partnership, 00:08:22.980 --> 00:08:26.000 it became apparent really quickly. Not just because 00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:28.569 the songs were great. but because they're totally 00:08:28.569 --> 00:08:31.430 unique and fiercely protected writing process. 00:08:31.730 --> 00:08:33.909 Right. The Two Rooms documentary from 91 really 00:08:33.909 --> 00:08:36.230 highlighted this, comparing them to Lennon -McCartney. 00:08:36.389 --> 00:08:38.570 Can you break down that methodology? Because 00:08:38.570 --> 00:08:40.470 this is where their dynamic is just fascinating. 00:08:40.789 --> 00:08:43.750 It really is. What's truly remarkable is the 00:08:43.750 --> 00:08:46.610 structure, how it worked, especially back then. 00:08:47.169 --> 00:08:49.029 Historically, Toppin writes the lyrics completely 00:08:49.029 --> 00:08:51.740 on his own. Totally separate from John. Okay. 00:08:51.860 --> 00:08:54.240 He'd finish the words, sometimes pages and pages 00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:56.159 of this narrative poetry and just hand them over. 00:08:56.360 --> 00:08:59.340 Then John would set them to music. And the key 00:08:59.340 --> 00:09:02.279 phrase is, with historically no further interaction. 00:09:02.720 --> 00:09:05.460 Wow. John is basically scoring a finished piece 00:09:05.460 --> 00:09:08.639 of literature. That's just mind boggling. So 00:09:08.639 --> 00:09:11.559 John receives a poem, right? A complete story, 00:09:11.679 --> 00:09:14.460 complete emotional map laid out in words. And 00:09:14.460 --> 00:09:16.600 then he finds the melody, the rhythm, the whole 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:19.850 song structure to fit its... Yes, emotional architecture 00:09:19.850 --> 00:09:22.389 without sitting in the room debating verses, 00:09:22.610 --> 00:09:25.850 changing lines. Exactly. It's built on this foundation 00:09:25.850 --> 00:09:28.490 of pure, implicit trust in Toppin's narrative 00:09:28.490 --> 00:09:31.210 instincts. John trusted the words would give 00:09:31.210 --> 00:09:33.769 him everything he needed. And think about the 00:09:33.769 --> 00:09:36.470 technical challenge for John. If the lyrics are 00:09:36.470 --> 00:09:39.309 complex, maybe the meter is irregular. He has 00:09:39.309 --> 00:09:41.610 to somehow bend the music around those words. 00:09:41.950 --> 00:09:44.649 That must lead to some really unusual song structure 00:09:44.649 --> 00:09:47.509 sometimes breaking away from standard pop formulas. 00:09:47.909 --> 00:09:51.529 Absolutely. And does the melody just reinforce 00:09:51.529 --> 00:09:54.009 the emotion in the lyrics or does it sometimes 00:09:54.009 --> 00:09:57.169 reinterpret it? It's this really unusual, powerful 00:09:57.169 --> 00:10:00.230 symbiosis. I always wonder if that lyrics first 00:10:00.230 --> 00:10:03.519 approach ever led to... Like misinterpretations. 00:10:03.659 --> 00:10:06.019 Or maybe the music fundamentally changed the 00:10:06.019 --> 00:10:08.179 feeling of what Toppin originally intended in 00:10:08.179 --> 00:10:10.379 the poem. That's a question people always ask. 00:10:10.440 --> 00:10:13.019 But the general consensus, and from what they've 00:10:13.019 --> 00:10:15.539 both said, is that it rarely happened in a negative 00:10:15.539 --> 00:10:18.659 way. Or if it did, it resulted in a kind of happy 00:10:18.659 --> 00:10:21.240 accident. Tupin himself has talked about the 00:10:21.240 --> 00:10:23.399 surprise sometimes of hearing the finished song. 00:10:23.539 --> 00:10:26.059 He'd say John often found rhythms and moves that 00:10:26.059 --> 00:10:27.899 he didn't even consciously realize were inherent 00:10:27.899 --> 00:10:29.919 in the words he wrote. Can you give an example? 00:10:30.220 --> 00:10:33.600 Well, think about Rocketman. The lyrics are quite 00:10:33.600 --> 00:10:36.019 dark, aren't they? This sci -fi poetry about 00:10:36.019 --> 00:10:38.960 deep space loneliness. Yeah, existential. But 00:10:38.960 --> 00:10:42.720 the music John said it to is almost, well, jaunty. 00:10:43.139 --> 00:10:47.080 A mid -tempo folk rock kind of groove. And somehow 00:10:47.080 --> 00:10:50.080 that contrast. actually makes the loneliness 00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:53.240 feel even more profound, more unsettling. That's 00:10:53.240 --> 00:10:55.720 a great point. Okay, so that foundational process, 00:10:55.899 --> 00:10:58.220 Taupin writes words, John writes music, that's 00:10:58.220 --> 00:11:00.120 still the gold standard for them. Pretty much. 00:11:00.600 --> 00:11:03.159 The sources do note that today, maybe things 00:11:03.159 --> 00:11:04.799 are a little more interactive in the studio as 00:11:04.799 --> 00:11:06.580 the songs get developed, perhaps just because 00:11:06.580 --> 00:11:08.700 digital communication makes it easier. Sure. 00:11:08.840 --> 00:11:11.960 But that fundamental lyrics first rule, it seems 00:11:11.960 --> 00:11:14.480 to remain absolutely sacrosanct. The words come 00:11:14.480 --> 00:11:17.120 first. And the output, my God, speaks for itself, 00:11:17.259 --> 00:11:19.740 especially that first decade, the 1970s. Their 00:11:19.740 --> 00:11:22.139 run was just unbelievable. Incredible. Taupin 00:11:22.139 --> 00:11:24.580 seemed to move so seamlessly from these intimate, 00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:27.419 vulnerable moments to sprawling, almost epic 00:11:27.419 --> 00:11:29.440 narratives, sometimes all within the same album. 00:11:29.759 --> 00:11:33.779 It started really with your song in 1970, their 00:11:33.779 --> 00:11:36.159 first massive hit. And it kind of established 00:11:36.159 --> 00:11:39.559 that template, didn't it? Romantic, deeply personal 00:11:39.559 --> 00:11:42.860 vulnerability, which was actually a huge shift 00:11:42.860 --> 00:11:45.639 from a lot of the heavier rock dominating the 00:11:45.639 --> 00:11:48.240 charts at the time. Yeah, it stood out. And then 00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:50.940 came the sheer depth of the rest of that 70s 00:11:50.940 --> 00:11:53.690 catalog. It's just... immense. It's exhaustive, 00:11:53.690 --> 00:11:55.649 really. You look at Rocketman, like we said, 00:11:55.750 --> 00:11:59.049 that brilliant take on loneliness through a sci 00:11:59.049 --> 00:12:03.029 -fi lens. Then there's Levon, this bizarre multi 00:12:03.029 --> 00:12:06.110 -generational American story about a poor man's 00:12:06.110 --> 00:12:09.029 son named Levon, who has a son named Jesus. I 00:12:09.029 --> 00:12:11.590 mean, it's pure storytelling. And crucially, 00:12:11.710 --> 00:12:14.350 the albums themselves had such depth beyond just 00:12:14.350 --> 00:12:16.509 the singles. You think about the deep cuts from 00:12:16.509 --> 00:12:18.809 the 70s that are now considered absolute classics, 00:12:19.029 --> 00:12:22.009 like Tiny Dancer, which just perfectly evokes 00:12:22.009 --> 00:12:24.769 that wistful Southern California feeling or the 00:12:24.769 --> 00:12:27.169 sheer literary richness of the Goodbye Yellow 00:12:27.169 --> 00:12:29.690 Brick Road album. Absolute masterpiece. Gave 00:12:29.690 --> 00:12:31.710 us the title track, obviously, but also the kind 00:12:31.710 --> 00:12:34.250 of sci -fi soul of Benny and the Jets and that 00:12:34.250 --> 00:12:37.289 classic New York melancholy and Mona Lisa's and 00:12:37.289 --> 00:12:39.230 Mad Hatters. And of course, Don't Let the Sun 00:12:39.230 --> 00:12:41.970 Go Down on Me. Just unbelievable range. That 00:12:41.970 --> 00:12:44.879 decade was so intense, though. They were releasing, 00:12:45.000 --> 00:12:47.460 what, an album almost every single year. Pretty 00:12:47.460 --> 00:12:49.700 much. It was inevitably followed by a necessary 00:12:49.700 --> 00:12:54.159 break, a hiatus. Between 77 and 79, they took 00:12:54.159 --> 00:12:55.899 some time off from the partnership. What were 00:12:55.899 --> 00:12:58.879 they doing? Well, Talpin collaborated with other 00:12:58.879 --> 00:13:01.539 people, including, interestingly, Alice Cooper. 00:13:02.159 --> 00:13:04.659 And John worked with other lyricists, like Gary 00:13:04.659 --> 00:13:07.399 Osborne, quite successfully, too. It seemed like 00:13:07.399 --> 00:13:09.159 a period where both of them needed to stretch 00:13:09.159 --> 00:13:11.480 their creative muscles independently for a bit. 00:13:11.799 --> 00:13:14.200 But the partnership wasn't totally over. No, 00:13:14.240 --> 00:13:16.320 they did collaborate sporadically during that 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:18.799 time. But the full -time writing renewal really 00:13:18.799 --> 00:13:21.799 happened in 1983 with the album Too Low for Zero. 00:13:22.039 --> 00:13:24.879 Ah, okay. From that point forward, Taupin was 00:13:24.879 --> 00:13:27.759 once again Elton John's primary lyricist for 00:13:27.759 --> 00:13:30.600 his solo albums. It signaled a real long -term 00:13:30.600 --> 00:13:33.179 recommitment. And the hits just kept coming through 00:13:33.179 --> 00:13:35.159 the 80s and 90s, didn't they? Maybe the sound 00:13:35.159 --> 00:13:37.759 shifted a bit towards tighter, maybe more immediately 00:13:37.759 --> 00:13:40.480 accessible pop structures sometimes? Yeah, perhaps. 00:13:40.779 --> 00:13:43.159 The 80s brought us that incredibly resilient 00:13:43.159 --> 00:13:46.419 anthem, I'm Still Standing. Love that one. The 00:13:46.419 --> 00:13:48.960 soulful storytelling of, I guess that's why they 00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:51.419 call it the blues, and the very 80s Cold War 00:13:51.419 --> 00:13:54.129 imagery of Nikita. And the 90s hits too, while 00:13:54.129 --> 00:13:56.409 the music obviously evolved with the times, they 00:13:56.409 --> 00:13:59.549 still relied so heavily on Taupin's narrative 00:13:59.549 --> 00:14:02.309 depth. Songs like The One, Simple Life, and the 00:14:02.309 --> 00:14:06.029 sort of religiously themed Believe. They proved 00:14:06.029 --> 00:14:08.289 they could adapt their synergy, their process, 00:14:08.370 --> 00:14:11.350 to totally changing musical landscapes without 00:14:11.350 --> 00:14:14.289 losing that core identity. And then, then came 00:14:14.289 --> 00:14:17.330 a moment where the partnership showed its ultimate 00:14:17.330 --> 00:14:21.450 emotional maturity, its sensitivity, the rewrite 00:14:21.450 --> 00:14:23.940 of Candle in the Wind. For Diana, Princess of 00:14:23.940 --> 00:14:27.549 Wales. In 97, September 97. Yes. That was just 00:14:27.549 --> 00:14:31.129 such a profoundly charged global cultural moment. 00:14:31.769 --> 00:14:34.690 Taupin had this immense task. Yeah. Transform 00:14:34.690 --> 00:14:36.929 a song that was a very specific homage to Marilyn 00:14:36.929 --> 00:14:39.409 Monroe into this collective national, almost 00:14:39.409 --> 00:14:41.929 universal eulogy. Right. That requires incredible 00:14:41.929 --> 00:14:43.990 lyrical empathy, doesn't it? It really does. 00:14:44.149 --> 00:14:46.169 And Taupin himself, he explained his strategy 00:14:46.169 --> 00:14:47.570 quite deliberately. He said he wanted to make 00:14:47.570 --> 00:14:49.809 it sound like a country singing it. Wow. He didn't 00:14:49.809 --> 00:14:51.809 want the lyrics to feel like they came from one 00:14:51.809 --> 00:14:54.230 person's grief. But from the collective consciousness, 00:14:54.610 --> 00:14:58.429 the nation's grief, the task was huge, partly 00:14:58.429 --> 00:15:00.850 because the original song was already so famous, 00:15:00.889 --> 00:15:03.950 so ingrained. And he somehow achieved that collective 00:15:03.950 --> 00:15:06.799 voice almost instantly. He mentioned that once 00:15:06.799 --> 00:15:08.580 he landed on those first couple of lines, starting 00:15:08.580 --> 00:15:11.080 with Goodbye England's Rose, the rest of the 00:15:11.080 --> 00:15:14.159 lyrics just sort of fell into place. That single 00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:16.539 opening line immediately redefined the subject, 00:15:16.659 --> 00:15:19.399 didn't it? And it gave the entire nation, the 00:15:19.399 --> 00:15:21.659 world really, a phrase to mourn with. It was 00:15:21.659 --> 00:15:24.320 masterful. And their collaboration, it remains 00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:26.820 vital today. It's extended into film, into musical 00:15:26.820 --> 00:15:29.700 theater. While John worked with Tim Rice on big 00:15:29.700 --> 00:15:32.960 Disney projects, Taupin and John created Lestat. 00:15:33.450 --> 00:15:36.149 the musical Together in 2006. Right, based on 00:15:36.149 --> 00:15:38.370 the Anne Rice novels. Exactly. And they've contributed 00:15:38.370 --> 00:15:40.950 songs to animated films like Gnomeo and Juliet 00:15:40.950 --> 00:15:43.990 and its sequel, Sherlock Gnomes. They just keep 00:15:43.990 --> 00:15:46.250 finding new outlets for that shared talent. And 00:15:46.250 --> 00:15:48.509 maybe the ultimate capstone recognition, in recent 00:15:48.509 --> 00:15:51.429 years anyway, came with the 2019 biopic Rocketman. 00:15:51.590 --> 00:15:53.960 Great film. Yeah, and it didn't just celebrate 00:15:53.960 --> 00:15:57.120 their history. It actually produced a brand new 00:15:57.120 --> 00:15:59.279 collaboration between them for the movie I'm 00:15:59.279 --> 00:16:01.340 Gonna Love Me Again. Which won them the Oscar. 00:16:01.559 --> 00:16:04.799 Exactly. They won the Academy Award for Best 00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:08.659 Original Song in 2020, an Oscar nearly six decades 00:16:08.659 --> 00:16:11.179 into their working relationship. That's just 00:16:11.179 --> 00:16:14.440 an astonishing testament to their enduring friendship, 00:16:14.519 --> 00:16:16.879 their creative energy. It's incredible. It's 00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:18.980 just far too easy, isn't it, to reduce Bernie 00:16:18.980 --> 00:16:22.039 Taupin's massive body of work down to simply... 00:16:22.350 --> 00:16:24.909 Elton John's lyricist. Yeah, it's the shorthand 00:16:24.909 --> 00:16:27.389 everyone uses. But if you really dissect his 00:16:27.389 --> 00:16:30.330 career, you realize he's this genuine chameleon. 00:16:30.409 --> 00:16:33.190 He's capable of adapting that unique storytelling 00:16:33.190 --> 00:16:36.509 voice of his to virtually every corner of popular 00:16:36.509 --> 00:16:39.250 music. This is where you see his pure versatility 00:16:39.250 --> 00:16:41.429 shine. OK, so let's talk about that versatility, 00:16:41.629 --> 00:16:43.809 maybe starting with mainstream pop. His collaborations 00:16:43.809 --> 00:16:46.070 with the English composer Martin Page are really 00:16:46.070 --> 00:16:48.850 interesting here, showing his range outside of 00:16:48.850 --> 00:16:51.009 the typical Elton rock pop sound, specifically 00:16:51.009 --> 00:16:54.139 in that. That big 80s anthem rock style. Right. 00:16:54.220 --> 00:16:56.779 We're talking about two massive anthems here 00:16:56.779 --> 00:16:59.779 that are tonally worlds apart. Yeah. Yet both 00:16:59.779 --> 00:17:02.220 feel like quintessential 80s hits, you know. 00:17:02.259 --> 00:17:04.880 Which ones? The first is We Built This City. 00:17:05.259 --> 00:17:07.980 Recorded by Starship. Yeah. Huge, high energy 00:17:07.980 --> 00:17:11.119 almost, corporate rock sound. Definitely. Divisive 00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:14.400 now, maybe, but massive then. Massive then. And 00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:17.119 the second is the complete opposite. The soft 00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:20.900 focus, romantic power ballad, These Dreams, recorded 00:17:20.900 --> 00:17:24.259 by Heart. Wow. Okay. The contrast is staggering. 00:17:24.500 --> 00:17:27.230 To write, we built this city. He had to kind 00:17:27.230 --> 00:17:29.809 of abandon the sprawling, specific narratives 00:17:29.809 --> 00:17:32.730 of his 70s work, right? And distill the essence 00:17:32.730 --> 00:17:36.170 into these punchy, radio -ready hooks, generalized 00:17:36.170 --> 00:17:39.309 stadium chant themes. Yeah, exactly. And then 00:17:39.309 --> 00:17:40.609 he just turns around and writes the completely 00:17:40.609 --> 00:17:42.950 different, introspective, romantic moves required 00:17:42.950 --> 00:17:45.309 for these dreams. Yeah. It just shows he wasn't 00:17:45.309 --> 00:17:47.609 creatively locked into only his rural or classical 00:17:47.609 --> 00:17:50.089 influences. He could absolutely write to market 00:17:50.089 --> 00:17:52.190 demand when needed. It proves he understands 00:17:52.190 --> 00:17:54.670 the mechanics, the craft of commercial songwriting, 00:17:54.789 --> 00:17:57.539 just as much as... he understands narrative poetry. 00:17:57.940 --> 00:18:01.319 Okay, but moving away from huge commercial success 00:18:01.319 --> 00:18:03.839 for a moment. There's a collaboration that's 00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:06.140 really important for critical context, even though 00:18:06.140 --> 00:18:08.000 it was pretty much ignored commercially at the 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:10.819 time. That's his work producing David Ackle's 00:18:10.819 --> 00:18:14.619 1972 album, American Gothic. Ah, yes. American 00:18:14.619 --> 00:18:17.339 Gothic. This is an album that, yeah, it probably 00:18:17.339 --> 00:18:19.440 deserves its own deep dive someday. It's become 00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:22.779 this really influential cult classic for serious 00:18:22.779 --> 00:18:26.269 music fans, partly thanks to the, well... critical 00:18:26.269 --> 00:18:28.470 hyperbole it received back then. Hyperbole is 00:18:28.470 --> 00:18:30.170 maybe the right word, but possibly deserved. 00:18:30.450 --> 00:18:33.029 Didn't a major critic call it something extraordinary? 00:18:33.869 --> 00:18:36.089 Yes, the influential British music critic Derek 00:18:36.089 --> 00:18:38.809 Jewell, writing for the UK Sunday Times, famously 00:18:38.809 --> 00:18:41.690 described American Gothic as the S .T. Pepper 00:18:41.690 --> 00:18:44.869 of folk. The S .T. Pepper of folk. OK, wow. Why 00:18:44.869 --> 00:18:46.990 that comparison? What does that even mean? Well, 00:18:47.029 --> 00:18:49.109 that comparison suggests monumental ambition, 00:18:49.309 --> 00:18:51.490 right? Innovation. S .T. Pepper was known for 00:18:51.490 --> 00:18:54.029 its complex studio production, its revolutionary 00:18:54.029 --> 00:18:56.750 orchestration, its conceptual unity. So what 00:18:56.750 --> 00:18:58.609 was Talpin, who was still really young, remember? 00:18:58.769 --> 00:19:01.150 What was he doing as a producer on American Gothic 00:19:01.150 --> 00:19:03.380 that warranted that kind of high praise? Yeah, 00:19:03.420 --> 00:19:05.680 what was it? It seems to be about the conceptual 00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:09.160 scope and the soundscape they created. Ackles' 00:19:09.259 --> 00:19:11.299 songwriting was already pretty complex, literate 00:19:11.299 --> 00:19:14.500 stuff. But Taupin's production, it embraced this 00:19:14.500 --> 00:19:18.220 really rich, dramatic orchestral framework. It 00:19:18.220 --> 00:19:20.660 blended classical arrangements with folk instruments 00:19:20.660 --> 00:19:24.339 and Ackles' complex, often quite dark, thematic 00:19:24.339 --> 00:19:26.880 lyrics about American life. So it wasn't just 00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:28.980 a singer -songwriter album. Not at all. It was 00:19:28.980 --> 00:19:32.400 a sprawling, meticulously arranged concept piece. 00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:35.880 And Taupin, only in his early 20s, showed this 00:19:35.880 --> 00:19:38.160 incredible instinct for production, for thematic. 00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:40.359 of cohesion. Yeah. And that clearly impressed 00:19:40.359 --> 00:19:42.660 the critics enormously. And how did that collaboration 00:19:42.660 --> 00:19:45.480 even happen, Ackles and Taupin? It happened because 00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:48.559 David Ackles actually co -headlined Elton John's 00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:51.200 legendary American debut shows at the Troubadour 00:19:51.200 --> 00:19:54.220 in Los Angeles in 1970. Ah, the Troubadour connection. 00:19:54.500 --> 00:19:56.539 Yeah. It just shows Taupin's creative antenna 00:19:56.539 --> 00:19:58.819 were always up, right? Always seeking out interesting, 00:19:58.940 --> 00:20:01.000 complimentary artists who were willing to push 00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:03.579 boundaries. And his genre hopping just continued 00:20:03.579 --> 00:20:06.299 into some really wild, uncommon pairings after 00:20:06.299 --> 00:20:09.380 that. Totally. In 1978, he... He co -wrote an 00:20:09.380 --> 00:20:12.960 entire album from the inside with Alice Cooper. 00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:16.019 Alice Cooper. Okay. That is a huge stylistic 00:20:16.019 --> 00:20:19.000 shift from producing folk or writing wistful 00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:22.299 rock ballads. Right. Shock rock. And later, in 00:20:22.299 --> 00:20:25.059 the late 80s, early 90s, he collaborated quite 00:20:25.059 --> 00:20:27.779 a bit with the French -American musician Josquin 00:20:27.779 --> 00:20:30.960 Desprez on numerous songs, stretching his vocabulary 00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:33.579 even further. But maybe his most successful and 00:20:33.579 --> 00:20:36.700 perhaps longest -lasting triumph outside of the 00:20:36.700 --> 00:20:38.480 Elton John world came in a completely different 00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:41.900 genre again. Country music. Yes. This is where 00:20:41.900 --> 00:20:45.019 his real penchant for storytelling, for character 00:20:45.019 --> 00:20:47.400 development, for that specific kind of Americana. 00:20:48.460 --> 00:20:50.940 Perfect, really resonant home. It feels like 00:20:50.940 --> 00:20:53.299 a natural fit somehow. It totally does. It was 00:20:53.299 --> 00:20:55.480 like a validation of his specific writing voice. 00:20:55.819 --> 00:20:58.140 The country world really welcomed that narrative 00:20:58.140 --> 00:21:00.859 structure he'd been honing since the 70s. For 00:21:00.859 --> 00:21:02.980 instance, Willie Nelson and Kid Rock, they recorded 00:21:02.980 --> 00:21:05.559 a song called Last Stand in Open Country, which 00:21:05.559 --> 00:21:08.180 was actually the title track from an album by 00:21:08.180 --> 00:21:11.279 Taupin's own band from the 90s, Farm Dogs. We'll 00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:13.740 talk about them in a bit. Ah, okay. So Nelson 00:21:13.740 --> 00:21:16.119 picked up on his band's song. Yeah, and Nelson 00:21:16.119 --> 00:21:18.559 clearly liked what he heard. because he went 00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:20.940 on to include two other Toppin songs on his own 00:21:20.940 --> 00:21:23.359 album, The Great Divide. One called This Face 00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:26.480 and the really successful one, Mendocino County 00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:29.180 Line. Right. Mendocino County Line was a big 00:21:29.180 --> 00:21:31.400 deal in country music, wasn't it? Huge deal. 00:21:31.700 --> 00:21:33.619 Critically and commercially within that world. 00:21:33.799 --> 00:21:36.380 It was a duet between Willie Nelson and Leanne 00:21:36.380 --> 00:21:39.779 Womack. And it earned Toppin a Grammy Award in 00:21:39.779 --> 00:21:43.470 2003. A Grammy. A Grammy. For Best Vocal Collaboration 00:21:43.470 --> 00:21:46.130 in Country Music. This is so crucial. A Grammy 00:21:46.130 --> 00:21:48.250 win, completely independent of the whole Elton 00:21:48.250 --> 00:21:50.750 John machine, for material that taps right into 00:21:50.750 --> 00:21:52.930 his deep love for the American landscape and 00:21:52.930 --> 00:21:54.869 storytelling. That's fantastic. And the high 00:21:54.869 --> 00:21:56.890 -profile film work kept expanding his reach, 00:21:56.970 --> 00:21:59.210 too, right? Beyond the Elton stuff. Absolutely. 00:21:59.309 --> 00:22:02.250 In 2006, he won a Golden Globe Award. Golden 00:22:02.250 --> 00:22:04.730 Globe for what? For the lyrics to the song A 00:22:04.730 --> 00:22:06.990 Love That Will Never Grow Old, which featured 00:22:06.990 --> 00:22:09.529 very powerfully in the film Brokeback Mountain. 00:22:09.920 --> 00:22:12.619 Oh, wow. Yeah. The music for that was composed 00:22:12.619 --> 00:22:15.740 by the great Gustavo Santolalla. Just beautiful, 00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:18.019 haunting work from both of them. He really is 00:22:18.019 --> 00:22:20.259 a genuine collaborator, isn't he? Willing to 00:22:20.259 --> 00:22:22.859 work with anyone if the project is right. Seems 00:22:22.859 --> 00:22:25.079 like it. We should also quickly mention he collaborated 00:22:25.079 --> 00:22:27.380 with other rock legends, too. He worked with 00:22:27.380 --> 00:22:30.519 Courtney Love on her 2004 solo album. Really? 00:22:31.079 --> 00:22:33.880 Courtney Love. And he co -wrote the title track 00:22:33.880 --> 00:22:36.240 for Brian Wilson's Christmas album, What I Really 00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:38.740 Want for Christmas, back in 2005. Brian Wilson. 00:22:39.039 --> 00:22:41.799 OK. I mean, the list goes on. Taupin has truly 00:22:41.799 --> 00:22:43.920 proven he's fluent in the language of almost 00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:46.799 every major musical genre you can think of. He's 00:22:46.799 --> 00:22:48.819 not just Elton's guy. It's interesting, isn't 00:22:48.819 --> 00:22:51.640 it? For a man who really defined himself as the 00:22:51.640 --> 00:22:54.960 quiet, written half of this massive, flamboyant 00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:58.720 musical duo, Taupin has actually had this surprisingly 00:22:58.720 --> 00:23:01.319 public and sometimes quite experimental solo 00:23:01.319 --> 00:23:03.900 career, trying to become a performer in his own 00:23:03.900 --> 00:23:05.980 right, moving beyond just the words on the page. 00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:08.460 Yeah, it's a fascinating side thread. His earliest 00:23:08.460 --> 00:23:10.619 and probably most esoteric experiment came way 00:23:10.619 --> 00:23:13.779 back in 1971. It was a spoken word album simply 00:23:13.779 --> 00:23:18.160 titled Tappan. A spoken word album in 1971. Yeah, 00:23:18.200 --> 00:23:20.680 it's a very unusual artifact in rock history. 00:23:20.839 --> 00:23:23.380 He basically recited some of his early poems 00:23:23.380 --> 00:23:26.680 over what the sources describe as impromptu sitar 00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:28.900 -heavy music. Sitar -heavy. Who was playing? 00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:31.900 Members of Elton's band, actually. Like guitarist 00:23:31.900 --> 00:23:34.000 Davy Johnstone. Okay. And what were the poems 00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:36.490 about? Well, the contents were deeply personal, 00:23:36.549 --> 00:23:38.430 tying right back to his childhood, which we talked 00:23:38.430 --> 00:23:40.970 about. Side one was called Child. It included 00:23:40.970 --> 00:23:42.950 readings about his first two homes, Flatter's 00:23:42.950 --> 00:23:45.170 House and Roston Manor. Ah, connecting back. 00:23:45.450 --> 00:23:48.069 Exactly. And it also featured a poem called The 00:23:48.069 --> 00:23:50.470 Greatest Discovery, which looks at his own birth 00:23:50.470 --> 00:23:52.470 from the perspective of his older brother, Tony. 00:23:52.950 --> 00:23:55.750 That's a poem that Elton John later did set to 00:23:55.750 --> 00:23:58.170 music, quite famously. Oh, right. I know that 00:23:58.170 --> 00:23:59.930 song. So it's interesting to compare the two 00:23:59.930 --> 00:24:02.609 versions, then. His recitation versus Elton's 00:24:02.609 --> 00:24:05.670 musical take. Definitely. The recitation puts 00:24:05.670 --> 00:24:08.349 the emphasis purely on the verbal rhythm, the 00:24:08.349 --> 00:24:10.690 words themselves, whereas John's interpretation 00:24:10.690 --> 00:24:13.069 gives the poem this soaring, really emotional 00:24:13.069 --> 00:24:16.190 melody. It's quite different. But the spoken 00:24:16.190 --> 00:24:18.869 word experiment was pretty short -lived. Taubman 00:24:18.869 --> 00:24:20.849 himself stated later that he was explicitly not 00:24:20.849 --> 00:24:22.890 pleased with how that album turned out. He didn't 00:24:22.890 --> 00:24:25.230 like it. Why not? It seems like maybe there was 00:24:25.230 --> 00:24:27.910 a conflict between his vision as the writer and 00:24:27.910 --> 00:24:30.349 the reality of being the performer, or maybe 00:24:30.349 --> 00:24:33.079 how the music framed the words. He didn't elaborate 00:24:33.079 --> 00:24:35.099 much, just that he wasn't happy with it. Okay. 00:24:35.359 --> 00:24:37.619 But he did try the singing route again later, 00:24:37.740 --> 00:24:41.220 didn't he? He did. In 1980, he released his first 00:24:41.220 --> 00:24:44.480 proper album as a vocalist called He Who Rides 00:24:44.480 --> 00:24:47.140 the Tiger. Did it do well? No, it failed the 00:24:47.140 --> 00:24:49.799 chart. He followed it up in 1987 with another 00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:52.259 album called Tribe. And that one. Same story, 00:24:52.299 --> 00:24:54.380 really. Neither of those albums found much commercial 00:24:54.380 --> 00:24:56.839 success. And regarding that first solo effort, 00:24:57.000 --> 00:24:59.319 He Who Rides the Tiger, Taubman later kind of 00:24:59.319 --> 00:25:01.859 suggested he felt he lacked the creative control 00:25:01.859 --> 00:25:04.279 he really wanted over the final product. Ah, 00:25:04.380 --> 00:25:06.299 that makes sense. A common creative conflict. 00:25:06.359 --> 00:25:09.319 Right. The person who provides the source material 00:25:09.319 --> 00:25:11.799 steps into the spotlight and suddenly finds their 00:25:11.799 --> 00:25:14.339 original vision maybe diluted by producers, other 00:25:14.339 --> 00:25:16.779 musicians. Exactly. He found himself on the receiving 00:25:16.779 --> 00:25:18.819 end of the process he usually initiated with 00:25:18.819 --> 00:25:21.380 Elton. He was the writer being interpreted rather 00:25:21.380 --> 00:25:23.660 than the interpreter. But he did eventually find 00:25:23.660 --> 00:25:26.720 a way to bridge that earthier storytelling style 00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:29.259 with performance again, didn't he? In the mid 00:25:29.259 --> 00:25:31.859 -90s, but this time in a collaborative band setting, 00:25:32.039 --> 00:25:36.259 the group Farm Dogs. Yes, Farm Dogs. Formed in 00:25:36.259 --> 00:25:40.069 1997. They released two albums, Last Stand and 00:25:40.069 --> 00:25:43.109 Open Country and Immigrant Sons. And this project 00:25:43.109 --> 00:25:44.910 feels fundamentally important because it was 00:25:44.910 --> 00:25:47.809 described at the time as a conscious and actually 00:25:47.809 --> 00:25:50.769 quite successful throwback. A throwback to what? 00:25:50.930 --> 00:25:53.450 To the grittier, earthier sound of Tumbleweed 00:25:53.450 --> 00:25:55.789 Connection. You know, that seminal 1970 album 00:25:55.789 --> 00:25:57.950 he co -wrote with John, which was so heavy on 00:25:57.950 --> 00:26:00.529 themes of the American West, rural life. Okay. 00:26:00.589 --> 00:26:02.750 So Farm Dogs was like a deliberate return to 00:26:02.750 --> 00:26:05.470 his deepest thematic roots. The rugged, dusty 00:26:05.470 --> 00:26:07.970 narratives he always excelled at. Pretty much. 00:26:08.170 --> 00:26:11.410 And notice the structure. In Farm Dogs, he went 00:26:11.410 --> 00:26:13.910 right back to that familiar, successful division 00:26:13.910 --> 00:26:17.519 of labor. He wrote the lyrics. But the music 00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:19.640 was a collaborative effort among the other band 00:26:19.640 --> 00:26:22.720 members. So he provided the soul, the stories, 00:26:22.819 --> 00:26:26.160 and the others provided the sound. Exactly. That 00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:28.359 seems to be the setup where he felt most comfortable 00:26:28.359 --> 00:26:30.940 performing, when he wasn't solely carrying the 00:26:30.940 --> 00:26:33.099 musical load. Makes sense. Okay, so beyond musical 00:26:33.099 --> 00:26:35.599 performance, he also has a solid bibliography, 00:26:35.640 --> 00:26:38.319 right? Yeah, he's published his collected lyrics 00:26:38.319 --> 00:26:40.680 multiple times. There was an early collection 00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:43.819 back in 1973 that covered all the big hits up 00:26:43.819 --> 00:26:46.440 to Goodbye Yellow Brick Road. And then a more 00:26:46.440 --> 00:26:48.420 complete lyrics collection came out in 1994. 00:26:48.900 --> 00:26:51.680 And didn't he write a memoir, too? He did. In 00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:55.400 1988, he published A Cradle of Halos, Sketches 00:26:55.400 --> 00:26:58.200 of a Childhood. But crucially, this autobiography 00:26:58.200 --> 00:27:00.500 was only released in the UK. Oh, really? Just 00:27:00.500 --> 00:27:03.000 the UK? Yeah. And it meticulously covered his 00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:04.640 rural upbringing, everything we talked about 00:27:04.640 --> 00:27:08.539 earlier, right up until 1969. It stops just as 00:27:08.539 --> 00:27:10.599 he's about to head off to London and meet Reginald 00:27:10.599 --> 00:27:13.500 Dwight. So it's like the full immersive backstory 00:27:13.500 --> 00:27:16.640 to the poems that started everything. Precisely. 00:27:16.700 --> 00:27:19.269 It gives you the genesis of his poetry. But the 00:27:19.269 --> 00:27:22.210 most maybe striking creative pivot of his later 00:27:22.210 --> 00:27:24.769 career isn't musical or literary at all. It's 00:27:24.769 --> 00:27:27.529 his visual art. Yes, which represents a completely 00:27:27.529 --> 00:27:29.150 different kind of storytelling for him. When 00:27:29.150 --> 00:27:32.309 did this start? Is it serious? His career as 00:27:32.309 --> 00:27:34.609 a visual artist really took off around 2010. 00:27:34.869 --> 00:27:37.809 And this isn't just some casual hobby. His work 00:27:37.809 --> 00:27:40.769 consists of these large mixed media contemporary 00:27:40.769 --> 00:27:43.549 assemblages. They've been shown pretty extensively, 00:27:43.710 --> 00:27:46.109 collected across the U .S. and Canada. He actually 00:27:46.109 --> 00:27:48.880 attributes his lifelong passion for art. going 00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:51.819 way back to his mother Daphne. Interesting. Is 00:27:51.819 --> 00:27:54.900 there a thematic link between his art and his 00:27:54.900 --> 00:27:57.200 lyrics? Oh, absolutely. If you look at the consistency 00:27:57.200 --> 00:27:59.619 in his artwork, it links directly back to his 00:27:59.619 --> 00:28:02.240 life as this, well, Americanized Englishman. 00:28:02.299 --> 00:28:04.759 A hugely recurring element in his visual art 00:28:04.759 --> 00:28:07.319 is the incorporation of the American flag. The 00:28:07.319 --> 00:28:10.980 flag. Yes. Which just reinforces this idea, doesn't 00:28:10.980 --> 00:28:13.299 it? That the themes he writes about in his country 00:28:13.299 --> 00:28:15.960 songs, his Americana rock lyrics, that whole 00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:18.299 mythology of the United States, it's not just 00:28:18.299 --> 00:28:22.099 lyrical fodder for him. genuine, deep, artistic 00:28:22.099 --> 00:28:25.400 obsession that he now expresses visually on canvas 00:28:25.400 --> 00:28:28.200 and through assemblage. So Bernie Toppin's professional 00:28:28.200 --> 00:28:31.059 life, it seems like a model of creative consistency, 00:28:31.180 --> 00:28:34.200 really, despite the genre hopping. But his personal 00:28:34.200 --> 00:28:36.119 life, it reflects more of a journey, doesn't 00:28:36.119 --> 00:28:38.619 it? Major changes, relocation, transformation. 00:28:39.680 --> 00:28:41.759 Definitely. He's been married four times, for 00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:44.220 instance. And we track his move from England 00:28:44.220 --> 00:28:47.539 to the United States back in the mid 1970s. That 00:28:47.539 --> 00:28:49.480 was obviously a huge shift personally, but also 00:28:49.480 --> 00:28:52.299 creatively. How so creatively? Well, relocating 00:28:52.299 --> 00:28:54.240 to the U .S., particularly California, seemed 00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:56.440 to really solidify the thematic direction of 00:28:56.440 --> 00:28:58.920 so much of his later work. That focus on American 00:28:58.920 --> 00:29:01.819 landscapes, characters, myths. It became even 00:29:01.819 --> 00:29:03.700 more central, maybe more authentic once he was 00:29:03.700 --> 00:29:05.779 living it. And he fully committed to his adopted 00:29:05.779 --> 00:29:08.420 home, didn't he? Became a citizen. Yeah. became 00:29:08.420 --> 00:29:11.359 a naturalized U .S. citizen in 1990. He currently 00:29:11.359 --> 00:29:12.859 lives down in Santa Barbara County, California. 00:29:13.700 --> 00:29:16.079 Deep in the heart of the territory, he's so often 00:29:16.079 --> 00:29:18.700 romanticized in his lyrics. His current marriage 00:29:18.700 --> 00:29:20.799 is to Heather Kidd, and they have two daughters 00:29:20.799 --> 00:29:24.390 together. But we absolutely cannot move on without 00:29:24.390 --> 00:29:26.849 pausing for this one incredible biographical 00:29:26.849 --> 00:29:29.329 detail. It seems almost too perfect, like something 00:29:29.329 --> 00:29:32.130 out of one of his own songs. Too ruggedly poetic 00:29:32.130 --> 00:29:33.930 to be true. Oh, I know where you're going with 00:29:33.930 --> 00:29:37.329 this. The man who wrote Tiny Dancer and Goodbye 00:29:37.329 --> 00:29:41.099 Yellow Brick Road was a part owner. of a world 00:29:41.099 --> 00:29:43.640 -famous bucking bull. It's just the best anecdote, 00:29:43.799 --> 00:29:45.740 isn't it? Little Yellow Jacket. Little Yellow 00:29:45.740 --> 00:29:47.519 Jacket. It's phenomenal. It's like the physical 00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:49.660 embodiment of his whole tumbleweed connection 00:29:49.660 --> 00:29:52.319 aesthetic. And this wasn't just some casual investment, 00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:55.359 right? This bull was a star. Oh, absolutely not 00:29:55.359 --> 00:29:57.859 casual. Little Yellow Jacket was a total superstar 00:29:57.859 --> 00:30:00.759 in the PBR, the Professional Bull Rider Circuit. 00:30:01.099 --> 00:30:04.160 He was named PBR Bull of the Year, three years 00:30:04.160 --> 00:30:07.559 running. 2002, 2003, 2004. Three years in a row. 00:30:07.700 --> 00:30:10.039 Yeah. So for a man who wrote all these lyrics 00:30:10.039 --> 00:30:12.799 romanticizing cowboys, Dusty Rhodes, the rugged 00:30:12.799 --> 00:30:16.140 spirit of the American West, to actually co -own 00:30:16.140 --> 00:30:19.950 a champion bucking bull, it's the ultimate. literal 00:30:19.950 --> 00:30:22.710 convergence of his art in his life. It's perfect. 00:30:22.849 --> 00:30:24.890 It really is. It's just a perfect little anecdote 00:30:24.890 --> 00:30:27.049 that adds so much color and depth. It reminds 00:30:27.049 --> 00:30:29.430 you his connection to Americana isn't just literary, 00:30:29.549 --> 00:30:32.490 it's visceral, it's real. He literally put his 00:30:32.490 --> 00:30:35.470 money where his poetry was. Exactly. And as we 00:30:35.470 --> 00:30:37.569 kind of look back at this long, incredibly varied 00:30:37.569 --> 00:30:40.170 career, the recognition, as we touched on earlier, 00:30:40.410 --> 00:30:43.130 has really culminated in a number of huge, monumental 00:30:43.130 --> 00:30:46.210 late career honors. And these firmly establish 00:30:46.210 --> 00:30:49.109 his legacy. deservedly, outside of the shadow 00:30:49.109 --> 00:30:51.009 of his partner's massive performance profile. 00:30:51.289 --> 00:30:54.470 Right. So in 2022, he got that major recognition 00:30:54.470 --> 00:30:56.690 from his home country. He was appointed commander 00:30:56.690 --> 00:30:58.950 of the Order of the British Empire, the CBE, 00:30:59.170 --> 00:31:01.990 for his services to music, which feels like a 00:31:01.990 --> 00:31:04.089 powerful statement of recognition from the establishment 00:31:04.089 --> 00:31:07.450 he sort of left behind decades ago. Yeah, a homecoming 00:31:07.450 --> 00:31:11.630 honor, in a way. Then, in 2023, came the ultimate 00:31:11.630 --> 00:31:14.670 rock and roll recognition, induction into the 00:31:14.670 --> 00:31:16.650 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Was that with Elton? 00:31:17.180 --> 00:31:19.740 No, this was specifically for him in the Musical 00:31:19.740 --> 00:31:22.519 Excellence Award category. Ah, okay. What's that 00:31:22.519 --> 00:31:25.180 category for? It specifically recognizes individuals 00:31:25.180 --> 00:31:27.720 who've made outstanding creative contributions 00:31:27.720 --> 00:31:31.319 to music, but aren't necessarily defined primarily 00:31:31.319 --> 00:31:34.900 by their status as performers. So it's recognition 00:31:34.900 --> 00:31:37.180 for the craft, for the songwriting itself. Perfect 00:31:37.180 --> 00:31:39.519 for him. Absolutely perfect. And we keep coming 00:31:39.519 --> 00:31:42.000 back to 2024 because it really has been this 00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:44.299 landmark year for his legacy. It really has. 00:31:44.420 --> 00:31:47.019 The Gershwin Prize for Popular Song, shared with 00:31:47.019 --> 00:31:50.200 Elton John, yes. But also his personal Ivor Novello 00:31:50.200 --> 00:31:52.240 Award for Outstanding Contribution to British 00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:55.079 Music. The sheer accumulation, it just proves 00:31:55.079 --> 00:31:58.140 that critics, his peers, the institutions, they're 00:31:58.140 --> 00:32:00.420 finally looking beyond the piano player and fully 00:32:00.420 --> 00:32:02.880 acknowledging the unparalleled creative force 00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:05.279 of the writer behind the songs. It's a recognition 00:32:05.279 --> 00:32:08.720 that's been long, long deserved. Acknowledging 00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:11.599 the incredible depth, the sheer volume, and the 00:32:11.599 --> 00:32:14.099 quality of his contributions across so many genres, 00:32:14.359 --> 00:32:18.039 so many decades. You know, what truly stands 00:32:18.039 --> 00:32:19.660 out when you do a deep dive like this on Bernie 00:32:19.660 --> 00:32:21.519 Taupin is just the comprehensive nature of his 00:32:21.519 --> 00:32:23.700 journey. It's remarkable. We start with this 00:32:23.700 --> 00:32:27.079 shy, seemingly isolated poet in rural Lincolnshire. 00:32:27.160 --> 00:32:29.480 Right. Influenced by his Cambridge -educated 00:32:29.480 --> 00:32:32.640 classics -teaching grandfather, absorbing narrative 00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:34.640 structure in a farmhouse that didn't even have 00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:37.759 electricity. Amazing beginnings. And that shy 00:32:37.759 --> 00:32:40.200 poet then somehow transforms into the absolute 00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:42.619 hit machine that defines the sound of 70s rock 00:32:42.619 --> 00:32:46.460 radio. Yeah. Then he evolves again. Finding huge 00:32:46.460 --> 00:32:48.759 success as this Grammy -winning country writer, 00:32:48.859 --> 00:32:51.220 connecting deeply with icons like Willie Nelson, 00:32:51.359 --> 00:32:53.920 and then later becomes this respected visual 00:32:53.920 --> 00:32:56.420 artist obsessed with the iconography of his adopted 00:32:56.420 --> 00:32:58.599 American home. An obsession you see reflected 00:32:58.599 --> 00:33:00.880 right there in the recurring American flag motif 00:33:00.880 --> 00:33:04.789 in his large -scale art pieces. Exactly. He's 00:33:04.789 --> 00:33:06.809 a storyteller whose creative palette just kept 00:33:06.809 --> 00:33:10.089 expanding, didn't it? From paper to canvas and 00:33:10.089 --> 00:33:12.490 whose voice traveled so seamlessly from rock 00:33:12.490 --> 00:33:16.190 and pop to folk and country. He just never stopped 00:33:16.190 --> 00:33:18.890 observing and translating the world around him 00:33:18.890 --> 00:33:21.410 into art. And it all comes back ultimately to 00:33:21.410 --> 00:33:24.269 that foundational partnership. I mean, if you 00:33:24.269 --> 00:33:26.930 ever doubted Taupin's singular importance to 00:33:26.930 --> 00:33:28.910 the story of modern music, just remember what 00:33:28.910 --> 00:33:31.569 Elton John himself said. He told the audience 00:33:31.569 --> 00:33:34.509 at his own 60th birthday celebration. What was 00:33:34.509 --> 00:33:36.569 it? He said that without Bernie Taupin, there 00:33:36.569 --> 00:33:39.450 probably would not be an Elton John as the public 00:33:39.450 --> 00:33:42.529 has come to know him. Wow. That's pretty definitive, 00:33:42.609 --> 00:33:44.970 isn't it? It really is. The persona, the legend, 00:33:45.029 --> 00:33:47.549 it was all built on the poetry. One man provided 00:33:47.549 --> 00:33:50.369 the sophisticated, emotional, narrative soul. 00:33:50.769 --> 00:33:53.190 The other provided the music and the voice that 00:33:53.190 --> 00:33:55.769 made it global. It's truly a miracle of creative 00:33:55.769 --> 00:33:58.490 synergy when you think about it. So as you reflect 00:33:58.490 --> 00:34:01.950 on this long, varied, complex journey of this, 00:34:01.970 --> 00:34:05.609 well, quiet genius, Maybe consider the profound 00:34:05.609 --> 00:34:07.670 unpredictability where creativity comes from. 00:34:08.010 --> 00:34:10.449 What other great culture -defining collaborations 00:34:10.449 --> 00:34:13.449 might have been started simply by two unknown, 00:34:13.710 --> 00:34:16.510 recently rejected people answering a random classified 00:34:16.510 --> 00:34:19.110 ad in the back of a music paper? It's an amazing 00:34:19.110 --> 00:34:21.050 thought, isn't it? The greatest connections sometimes 00:34:21.050 --> 00:34:23.730 really do begin in the most mundane, unexpected 00:34:23.730 --> 00:34:26.670 places. Absolutely. That's it for the Deep Dives. 00:34:26.670 --> 00:34:27.969 Thank you so much for joining us.