Welcome back to The Deep Dive. Our mission today,
well, it's pretty straightforward. We're tracking
the career of a performer who's genuinely paradoxical,
I think. An actor who's just mastered being deeply
uncomfortable, intensely dramatic, and, you know,
utterly absurd, sometimes all at once. Yeah,
it's quite something. Looking past the faces
you see on your streaming queue and really diving
into the life and work of Brett Gelman. It is
a remarkable journey to map out. Absolutely.
Gelman has sort of perfected playing that intense,
hyper -focused, often paranoid outsider figure.
But what's really fascinating, I find, is how
his training, you know, from classical theater
all the way to really avant -garde comedy, how
that prepared him to anchor some of the most
complex, character -driven, prestige TV we've
seen in the last decade or so. Absolutely. And
when we talk about Gelman, I mean, two roles
just immediately leap out, right? They really
anchor this whole discussion. Yeah. First, obviously,
Murray Baillman, the conspiracy theorist, former
journalist in Stranger Things, global phenomenon.
Can't miss him. And second, Martin, the perpetually
abrasive, just morally corrosive husband in Viggy
Waller -Bridge's Fleabag. Incredible show. Incredible.
Yeah. We've pulled together a... pretty comprehensive
overview here looking at his life his career
really from the mid -2000s right up to today
okay and we're looking for those threads you
know the things that connect the experimental
sketch guy the writer producer the ucb regular
to the well the established character actor he
is now tackling these big historical dramatic
roles right we really want you the listener to
get a handle on not just what he's been in but
how he got so good at juggling these these extremes
okay Great. Let's unpack that journey then. Let's
start right at the beginning, section one. The
foundations of a comedic voice. It's interesting
because, you know, we often think of modern sketch
and improv folks maybe bypassing traditional
training. But Gelman, he took a really formal
route first. Yeah. And that's, I think, a crucial
detail. Explains a lot about the gravitas he
brings later. Brett Gelman was born October 6,
1976. So that makes him 49 today, October 10,
2025. Raised Jewish family roots in Illinois.
His dad was a photo salesman. His younger sister
became a speech pathologist. pathologist. And
he graduated high school from Highland Park High
in Illinois. So, you know, that initial Midwestern
grounding. But the real pivot education wise.
Yeah. The foundation, maybe. That explains how
he can hold those intense dramatic scenes later.
That's college, right? Absolutely. He graduated
from the University of North Carolina School
of the Arts, UNCSA. Got a Bachelor of Fine Arts
degree. And this wasn't, you know, Improv 101.
This was pure discipline classical theater training.
Wow. Yeah. And if you think about what that involves,
classical training, I mean. Yeah. Voice projection,
physical commitment, deep character work, analyzing
text. It demands this discipline that, you know,
can seem totally opposite to the sort of anarchic
yes and vibe of improv. Right. Different worlds.
Totally. But it's precisely that grounding, I
think, that lets him commit so fully to the most
outlandish characters later on without sort of
winking at the audience. He treats the absurdity
with like serious theatrical weight. Okay, that
makes sense. So after that intense formal discipline,
he immediately just throws himself into the New
York City comedy scene. First graduation. Yep.
Moved there with a schoolmate, the actor John
Daly. They were ready to, you know, make their
mark on that really competitive scene. In New
York in the 2000s, that path pretty much meant
one thing, right? Oh, yeah. Immersion in the
Upright Citizens Brigade Theater. UCB. That's
where he really... developed his rhythm, cemented
his roots in improv and sketch. UCB was, I mean,
at that time, it was the absolute hub for alternative,
often dark, boundary -pushing comedy. It required
you to be quick, inventive, and importantly,
not afraid of confrontation. And he wasn't just
like hanging around the edges. He was central
to a couple of specific groups that really defined
that early, very idiosyncratic style. That's
right. He was half of the comedy duo Cracked
Out with John Daly. Right. And he was also in
the sketch group called Mr. Bay. Chuckles. Yeah.
The names alone tell you something. They really
do. An embrace of the abrasive and the ridiculous,
Cracked Out was known for this like manic, aggressive
energy. This is where... That persona, the super
intense, fast talking, maybe slightly unhinged
guy was really forged. It was kind of the perfect
counter training to the structure of UNCSA. Classical
training taught him how to perform. UCB taught
him what to perform. Digging into uncomfortable
truths through absurdity. Now, here's a fantastic
little bit of history. It really speaks to the
financial reality of trying to make experimental
art in New York, how he funded his early work.
It's brilliant, actually. A loop of luck and
creativity. Oh, it's the classic starving artist
story, but with this amazing lucky twist. The
sources mention that a popular and surprisingly
lucrative New York lottery commercial gave him
the financial runway he needed. Really? Yeah.
To keep pursuing those riskier, you know, non
-commercial projects, he wasn't just relying
on like waiting tables. This commercial work
funded the fun stuff. He was a little bit of
luck guy, wasn't he? In the Take Five campaign.
Ran for like three years, 2008 to 2011. Exactly.
Which meant, you know, a constant low level bit
of visibility and importantly, income, which
is just gold for an experimental artist trying
to make rent and, you know, put on weird shows.
Yeah. Yeah. And there's even this detail that
Gelman said the character's inspiration was the
rock guitarist. Guthrie Govan. Isn't that great?
It just shows his commitment to characterization,
even for a quick commercial spot. He's looking
for a specific, intense energy source. Govan's
known for, you know, technical brilliance, but
also this distinct kind of eccentric stage presence.
And that funding, that lottery money, it directly
allowed him to develop and workshop his really
ambitious one -man show, 1 ,000 Cats. He did
it at various small venues around the city, pure
personal experimental theater. And while he's
doing these experimental shows, he's also starting
to get his foot in the door with TV and sketch
writing. Yeah. Doing voice work, early live action
stuff. Yeah. Getting exposure beyond the UCB
bubble. Yeah, definitely. We see him popping
up on key comedy shows at that time, like the
Colbert Report. He did some writing for the MTV
sketch series Human Giant, which was seminal.
And he landed recurring voice roles on shows
like The Life and Times of Tim. Which kind of
laid the groundwork for his later animation career,
which is often overlooked but actually pretty
significant for him. Okay, so by the early 2010s...
He's got the discipline foundation, the experimental
spirit, a clear comedic voice, and crucially,
some financial stability thanks to a lottery
ad. Wild. Pretty wild, yeah. Which sets the stage
perfectly for Section 2, the Adult Swim era and
the Dawn of Dark comedy. This is really when
his unique signature becomes nationally recognized,
wouldn't you say? Absolutely. This period, roughly
2010 to 2016, this is where he goes from being
maybe more of an NYC specific name to a national
comedy workhorse. Always balancing those experimental
niche projects with, you know, more mainstream
broadcast gigs. And the sheer volume of work
he did then is kind of staggering. It really
is. On the network side, you've got him co -starring
as Mr. K on NBC's Go On that starred Matthew
Perry. Right. Post France. Yeah. That's 22 episodes,
mainstream multi -can sitcom, 2012 -2013. So
he's proving he can play a recognizable, if quirky,
supporting role in a very traditional format.
But at the exact same time, he's deeply embedded
in the cable and alternative scene. He's holding
down multiple regular roles that needed that
distinct high -intensity Gelman style. Like Eagleheart.
Exactly. Brett Mobley, Chris Elliott's sidekick
in the live -action adult swim series Eagleheart.
That was 26 episodes. 2011 to 2014. And he was
AJ on the FX comedy Married. Critically respected,
maybe a bit niche, but that was 23 episodes.
And then just tons of sporting work all over
cable. He was Mr. Gilbert, the aggressive headmaster
in the Inbetweeners remake. Yep, seven episodes
of that. Hamish Crassus in another period for
20 episodes. That show was nuts. Hilarious. And
Ronnie in Blunt Talk with Patrick Stewart, six
episodes there. He was just... Everywhere. Adapting
his tone slightly for each, but always bringing
that that underlying intensity. And he's getting
those foundational film appearances to small
roles, but important. The other guys in 2010
and he played the super stressed pizza boss in
30 minutes or less in 2011. Right. So this whole
period, it's really about proving he could translate
that niche persona into commercial appeal across
basically every medium possible. However. Yeah.
The work that really defined the Brett Gelman
experience for a lot of people back then. Yeah.
The stuff that maybe prepared audiences for how
uncomfortable Martin and Fleabag would be. Yeah.
That has to be his Adult Swim Dinner specials.
Oh, absolutely. Those specials were... Something
else. Highly controversial, deeply unsettling,
totally unique. They weren't just sketches. They
felt like intentional performance art designed
to make you squirm. There may be the purest distillation
of his whole gel mania philosophy, but in video
form. The first one, Dinner with Friends with
Brett Gelman and friends. That was 2014. It set
the template. Take a civilized event, the dinner
party, and just systematically dismantle it with
awkwardness, passive aggression, outright hostility.
And they didn't just stop there, right? The sources
say they escalated conceptually. There were sequels.
Dinner with family with Brett Gelman and Brett
Gelman's family in 2015, which, you know, likely
turned that psychological spotlight inward onto
core family dynamics. Probably even more uncomfortable.
Probably. And then the really provocative one.
Dinner in America with Brett Gelman in 2016.
The source material specifically points out its
focus was on racism. These were never easy watches.
They combined his classical ability to sustain
a really committed, dramatic performance within
this unbearable, almost theatrical reality. Pushing
the boundaries of what comedy even meant on cable
TV, they felt like intentional acts of confrontation.
Which is a perfect parallel to his podcasting
work at the time, actually. Totally. This era
also saw him get really involved in the burgeoning
podcast scene. Another crucial outlet for his
whole approach to comedy. He was constantly on
comedy. Bang, bang. A fixture there, yeah. And
he launched his own podcast, Gelmania, in 2011
on the Earwolf Network. And this show, maybe
more than any visual work, really cemented his
comedic manifesto, I think. He gave this absolutely
perfect description of what he wanted the show
to be. And honestly, it feels like a mission
statement for his whole career. He said he wanted
Gelmania to, quote, reflect a lot of the fears
and anger and sadness of the world, but do that
through a really stupid lens. And if you just
take that quote. It explains everything, doesn't
it? It really does. Murray Bauman's paranoia.
It reflects real societal fears, right? Shadowy
government stuff, misinformation. Presented through
the lens of this highly theatrical, slightly
ridiculous character who, you know, needs a Russian
translator and vodka. Martin in Fleabag reflects
the deep sadness and anger of a toxic relationship.
But filtered through the stupid lens of a guy
who's just so oblivious and self -involved, it
becomes darkly comical. That idea of taking real
emotional truth and filtering it through controlled
theatrical stupidity. Yeah. That feels like the
key to understanding him. I think so. And even
though Gelmania moved off Earwolf for its second
season in 2014, that philosophy was locked in.
It defines his approach. And then late 2016,
we hit this huge turning point. His complete
split from Cartoon Network and Adult Swim. And
it wasn't quiet. It was a very public... principled
stand. Yeah, a massive moment, really significant
for his public persona. November 2016, he announces
he's severing ties. And the reasons he gave were
serious, multifaceted. First, he cited the network's
alleged poor treatment of female employees. Right.
And second, he specifically called out the network
for promoting the controversial sketch show,
Million Dollar Extreme Presence, World Peace.
Which was getting a lot of heat at the time.
A lot of heat. So this departure was huge because
Adult Swim had basically been his creative home
turf for years. It gave him the platform for
his most unique, defining stuff, like the dinner
specials. Stepping away from that, from that
niche but reliable platform, purely on principle.
That's a massive career risk. Huge. It signaled
Gelman was willing to put his moral and political
beliefs ahead of, you know, financial and creative
security. But maybe, maybe closing that door
immediately opened the next one, the one to international
mainstream success. Which brings us right into
section three. The breakthrough in dramatic range.
Yeah, the timing is just incredible. Almost immediately
after that very public split, his career just
explodes onto the international stage, starting
with the arrival, basically simultaneously, of
his two most recognizable roles in 2016 and 2017.
Okay, let's start with Fleabag. He's cast as
Martin, Claire's husband, series regular across
both seasons, seven episodes total, 2016 to 2019.
And this role may be more than any other. showed
how his specific brand of uncomfortable comedy
could translate into really powerful drama. Martin
is just, he's the absolute antithesis of the
typical sitcom husband, isn't he? He's repulsive,
self -pitying, psychologically manipulative.
But Gelman commits to it with the precision of
a classical actor. He doesn't play Martin just
for laughs. He plays the toxicity for an uncomfortable
reality. That's the key point, I think. When
you watch Martin... you feel the tension and
the trauma he inflicts on Claire. That classical
training allowed him to ground the character's
emotional truth, which made his absurdly inappropriate
behavior like, you know, lying about a miscarriage
land with genuine dramatic force, not just as
a punchline. Exactly. It totally shifted audience
perception. Suddenly, he wasn't just the weird
guy from Adult Swim. He was a performer capable
of carrying serious dramatic weight within this
universally acclaimed narrative. And almost at
the exact same time, He gets announced for Stranger
Things as Murray Bauman. Starts out recurring
season two and three. Perfect blend of comedy
and investigation in that role. But the character
became so essential to the plot, you know, handling
exposition, driving the paranoia, that he got
promoted. Main cats for the massive fourth season.
Solidified his international stardom right there.
Murray Bauman is Gelman's comedic philosophy
just packaged for a mass audience, isn't it?
He's the embodiment of those fears and anger
of the world, shadowy government. Russians, monsters,
filtered through that really stupid, albeit functional
lens of a slightly unhinged reporter living in
a bunker. He's great at handling exposition,
too. He really is. Think about those long scenes
in season three where Murray's translating Russian
or explaining complicated plans. Because he has
that UCB background, that speed, and that intense
stage presence from classical training, he can
deliver dense, rapid -fire dialogue while staying
physically and vocally intense. He keeps you
hooked, even when it's just information. Yeah,
totally. Now, while he's hitting it big as an
actor, he also made sure he kept control over
his own creative voice. The 2017 dark comedy
film Lemon feels like his self -authored thesis
statement on the kind of comedy he wants to make.
Lemon was a huge creative step. He co -wrote
it, starred as Isaac Lockman, this struggling,
abrasive actor spiraling out. And crucially,
it was directed by his then -spouse, Janice Bravo.
So you had this intimate, collaborative environment
allowing him to just dive into the absolute.
depths of discomfort. Premiered at Sundance,
it was a challenging watch, definitely. A really
uncomfortable character study. It proved that
even with Stranger Things blowing up, he was
still committed to that intentionally abrasive
niche work that defined his... adult swim stuff.
Right. And look at the supporting cast, Judy
Greer, Michael Cera, Nia Long, Gillian Jacobs.
That tells you about his growing cachet within
the indie film world by then. Definitely. And
this whole era, it wasn't just live action either.
While he's taking on these main dramatic roles
like George in HBO's Camping or Roland Finkelstein
in Mr. Mercedes, he kept up a really significant
and diverse voice acting portfolio. Yeah. Which
is smart. It's the practical work that keeps
an actor versatile and, frankly, busy. He had
the main voice role as Jeff in Jeff and some
Aliens for 10 episodes. Right. Then moved into
Netflix animation pretty heavily. Voiced Marcellus
in I Heart Arlo for 18 episodes. And maybe his
most beloved recent animated role. Magic Mike,
the cynical, perpetually annoyed mushroom creature
inside Job. Oh, Magic Mike is pure Gelman. Totally.
It's that voice, right? Extreme frustration,
weary cynicism delivered with just perfect comedic
timing and the ability to shift from the timing
needed for an animated mushroom to the really
serious, dramatic roles he tackled in 2024. That's
the definition of the range we're talking about.
And that's where you see the full circle land.
The industry now fully trusts his ability to
handle genuinely dark, complex, dramatic material.
In 2024 alone, two deeply grounded serious roles.
Yeah. First, the main role as Milton in the Apple
TV Plus drama series Lady and the Lake. Seven
episodes, high profile production needs grounded
dramatic focus. And second, he took on playing
Terry Nichols in the historical drama film McVeigh.
Nichols being, of course, the co -conspirator
in the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing. Wow. That
transition from voicing Magic Malick to portraying
Terry Nichols. That's a stunning endorsement
of his dramatic abilities. It confirms that classical
training. from decades ago is now fully informing
his mainstream dramatic work. Absolutely. He
truly contains multitudes. I mean, he also slipped
in playing the family film villain Mr. Grumps
in Lyle Crocodile back in 2022. Right. Can't
forget Mr. Grumps. It just speaks to the power
of the character actor today, doesn't it? If
you define a new commit to it, eventually you
become essential. You can move fluidly between
genre, between media. And that intense commitment
to his beliefs, his voice, whether it's artistic,
Yeah. That brings us straight to section four,
personal life and vocal activism, because this
part of his story shows that the confrontation
we saw in his comedy, it's now very much part
of his public identity. Yeah. First, though,
let's touch on the personal history, which. Kind
of delightfully circles right back to where his
career funding came from. Oh, yeah. Gellman married
director Janitza Bravo in December 2015. They
met in New York City while working on, and this
is almost too perfect, a New York lotto commercial.
Get out. That's amazing. Isn't it? The commercial
gives him the stability, which lets him do the
experimental comedy, which leads to the collaboration
that produced Lemon. And, oh, by the way, it's
where he met his first wife. That lottery spot
really was a pivotal bit of luck. Wow. Okay.
They divorced in 2018. Right. And more recently,
he announced his engagement to actress and model
Ari Dayan on Instagram in April 2023. And they
got married in 2025. Okay. Now let's address
his vocal activism. This has put him squarely
into some very high stakes public discussions,
especially around global politics. And it's really
vital here that we just report this impartially.
Convey what the sources say without taking sides
or endorsing any views. We're just conveying
the reported facts of it. his public life. Agreed.
The source material is very clear on this. Gelman
has been described as a, quote, vocal supporter
of Israel on Instagram throughout the Gaza war.
And this activism wasn't just, you know, posting
things online. It led to a significant, organized
public confrontation in November 2023. Directed
at TikTok, the social media platform. Exactly.
Gelman was part of a group, a collective of creators
and celebrities who publicly addressed TikTok
executives in an open letter. And the core allegation
in that letter was very specific. Extremely specific.
The creators claimed the app was directly facilitating
and amplifying the spread of anti -Semitism on
its platform. That's a direct claim about algorithmic
behavior and content moderation policy. And the
source material details TikTok's response. As
a huge global platform, they reportedly countered
those claims publicly. They stated that they
regularly moderate anti -Semitic content as well
as anti -Arab racist and Islamophobic content.
But crucially. Crucially, they drew a distinction
stating they do not moderate or amplify content
that is expressing political criticism of the
Israeli government. And that conflict right there
just perfectly illustrates the incredibly complex
challenge these platforms face, right? Right.
Balancing free expression, political critique
and hate speech moderation, especially during
active global conflicts. Yeah. For Gelman, though,
this was clearly an active, high profile way
of translating his discomfort with systemic issues
into public action, taking a stand. And it wasn't
just aimed at American platforms. Later that
same year, 2023, the source notes he actually
appeared on Eretz Neheteret, which is a hugely
popular Israeli sketch comedy show. Right. And
the Times of Israel described his appearance
as specifically, quote, skewering the anti -Israel
sentiment in the American left and especially
on campus. So that confirms his willingness to
engage directly in that political and cultural
debate using comedy as his platform, much like
the Adult Swim specials, maybe, but this time
with incredibly real world political stakes.
And there's a clear indication that this advocacy
came at a personal cost. The source notes Gelman
himself stated in November 2023, quote, Wow.
That one sentence really underscores the high
stakes of his vocal position. It completes the
picture, doesn't it, of a performer who seems
unable or unwilling to separate his personal
convictions from his public platform. That willingness
to engage in uncomfortable confrontation, which
maybe started as a comedic tool to explore truth,
is now manifesting as very serious, potentially
isolating public advocacy. He just does not shy
away from the abrasive. Which brings us nicely
to our synthesis, our final takeaways. When we
look back at the whole career path, there's this
fascinating and consistent pattern. You've got
the intense discipline of classical training
providing the bedrock. Then the experimental
confrontational world of UCB and Adult Swim providing
the unique voice. And those two things together
led to this sustained mainstream career where
he constantly plays characters who are paranoid.
or intense or morally ambiguous. His true genius,
I think, lies in using that classical commitment
to ground the deeply absurd. His signature isn't
just being awkward. It's the intense, believable
commitment to an unbearable situation, whether
he's hosting a horrific dinner party, translating
Russian in a bunker or being the psychological
tormentor Martin and Fleabag. And we can't forget
that lovely, almost perfect narrative loop of
the New York lottery commercial. It's great.
The financial little bit of luck that funded
the early risky. comedy and also the place he
met the collaborator who helped him realize his
most ambitious film vision, Lemon, that initial
lottery win truly funded his entire creative
path in a way. And what really stands out looking
across the whole timeline is the profound consistency
of His character, maybe. He takes risks, creatively
leaving Adult Swim on principle and politically
through his very public activism. Now, his whole
persona seems predicated on confrontation, whether
that confrontation is artistic or ideological.
So what does this all mean for you, the listener?
Yeah. We've seen Gelman move definitively into
really serious, heavy, dramatic territory. Roles
like Milton in Lady and the Like, playing Terry
Nichols and McVeigh. Yeah, which raises a really
interesting question for you to think about.
How will his history, all that time spent injecting
genuine, awkward, often painful truth into comedy,
how will that continue to inform these increasingly
serious, dramatic roles? Will that comedic background
make his dramatic villains more complex, more
sort of painfully human, or maybe just more theatrical?
using drama to heighten absurdity. Now maybe
he has to use absurdity to heighten drama. And
what is his entire journey? You know, from an
Illinois kid with classical training to an international
character actor taking really high stakes political
stands. What does that tell us about the power
and maybe the necessary unpredictability of the
character actor today? He seems like proof that
embracing that niche confrontational voice can,
if it's backed by real discipline, lead you right
to the heart of mainstream artistic success.
Yeah. And maybe an interesting final thought
to leave you with, connecting right back to the
start of our deep dive. Gilman said his original
comedic goal was to reflect the fears and anger
and sadness of the world, but do that through
a really stupid lens. Right. As he portrays figures
like Murray Barman or even historical figures
like Terry Nichols. How much of his current dramatic
work is maybe just a more refined but still present
application of that exact same truth -telling
stupid lens? Is he still doing the same thing,
just on a different stage? That's a compelling
thought to chew on. Thank you for joining us
on the Deep Dive.