WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.100 Welcome back to The Deep Dive. Our mission today, 00:00:03.279 --> 00:00:06.019 well, it's pretty straightforward. We're tracking 00:00:06.019 --> 00:00:12.220 the career of a performer who's genuinely paradoxical, 00:00:12.220 --> 00:00:15.500 I think. An actor who's just mastered being deeply 00:00:15.500 --> 00:00:19.480 uncomfortable, intensely dramatic, and, you know, 00:00:19.500 --> 00:00:22.059 utterly absurd, sometimes all at once. Yeah, 00:00:22.079 --> 00:00:23.839 it's quite something. Looking past the faces 00:00:23.839 --> 00:00:26.079 you see on your streaming queue and really diving 00:00:26.079 --> 00:00:28.559 into the life and work of Brett Gelman. It is 00:00:28.559 --> 00:00:31.399 a remarkable journey to map out. Absolutely. 00:00:31.620 --> 00:00:33.799 Gelman has sort of perfected playing that intense, 00:00:34.259 --> 00:00:37.520 hyper -focused, often paranoid outsider figure. 00:00:37.780 --> 00:00:39.960 But what's really fascinating, I find, is how 00:00:39.960 --> 00:00:42.679 his training, you know, from classical theater 00:00:42.679 --> 00:00:44.920 all the way to really avant -garde comedy, how 00:00:44.920 --> 00:00:46.700 that prepared him to anchor some of the most 00:00:46.700 --> 00:00:50.619 complex, character -driven, prestige TV we've 00:00:50.619 --> 00:00:52.619 seen in the last decade or so. Absolutely. And 00:00:52.619 --> 00:00:54.200 when we talk about Gelman, I mean, two roles 00:00:54.200 --> 00:00:56.060 just immediately leap out, right? They really 00:00:56.060 --> 00:00:58.189 anchor this whole discussion. Yeah. First, obviously, 00:00:58.329 --> 00:01:00.829 Murray Baillman, the conspiracy theorist, former 00:01:00.829 --> 00:01:03.530 journalist in Stranger Things, global phenomenon. 00:01:03.810 --> 00:01:07.989 Can't miss him. And second, Martin, the perpetually 00:01:07.989 --> 00:01:12.290 abrasive, just morally corrosive husband in Viggy 00:01:12.290 --> 00:01:15.730 Waller -Bridge's Fleabag. Incredible show. Incredible. 00:01:15.769 --> 00:01:18.650 Yeah. We've pulled together a... pretty comprehensive 00:01:18.650 --> 00:01:22.310 overview here looking at his life his career 00:01:22.310 --> 00:01:24.930 really from the mid -2000s right up to today 00:01:24.930 --> 00:01:27.049 okay and we're looking for those threads you 00:01:27.049 --> 00:01:29.530 know the things that connect the experimental 00:01:29.530 --> 00:01:32.629 sketch guy the writer producer the ucb regular 00:01:32.629 --> 00:01:35.329 to the well the established character actor he 00:01:35.329 --> 00:01:38.150 is now tackling these big historical dramatic 00:01:38.150 --> 00:01:41.409 roles right we really want you the listener to 00:01:41.409 --> 00:01:43.890 get a handle on not just what he's been in but 00:01:43.890 --> 00:01:46.590 how he got so good at juggling these these extremes 00:01:46.590 --> 00:01:48.890 okay Great. Let's unpack that journey then. Let's 00:01:48.890 --> 00:01:50.629 start right at the beginning, section one. The 00:01:50.629 --> 00:01:53.189 foundations of a comedic voice. It's interesting 00:01:53.189 --> 00:01:55.150 because, you know, we often think of modern sketch 00:01:55.150 --> 00:01:57.230 and improv folks maybe bypassing traditional 00:01:57.230 --> 00:01:59.629 training. But Gelman, he took a really formal 00:01:59.629 --> 00:02:01.930 route first. Yeah. And that's, I think, a crucial 00:02:01.930 --> 00:02:03.870 detail. Explains a lot about the gravitas he 00:02:03.870 --> 00:02:06.150 brings later. Brett Gelman was born October 6, 00:02:06.349 --> 00:02:09.509 1976. So that makes him 49 today, October 10, 00:02:09.650 --> 00:02:12.469 2025. Raised Jewish family roots in Illinois. 00:02:12.750 --> 00:02:15.550 His dad was a photo salesman. His younger sister 00:02:15.550 --> 00:02:17.490 became a speech pathologist. pathologist. And 00:02:17.490 --> 00:02:19.509 he graduated high school from Highland Park High 00:02:19.509 --> 00:02:22.030 in Illinois. So, you know, that initial Midwestern 00:02:22.030 --> 00:02:24.349 grounding. But the real pivot education wise. 00:02:24.430 --> 00:02:28.169 Yeah. The foundation, maybe. That explains how 00:02:28.169 --> 00:02:30.650 he can hold those intense dramatic scenes later. 00:02:30.870 --> 00:02:33.330 That's college, right? Absolutely. He graduated 00:02:33.330 --> 00:02:35.009 from the University of North Carolina School 00:02:35.009 --> 00:02:38.009 of the Arts, UNCSA. Got a Bachelor of Fine Arts 00:02:38.009 --> 00:02:40.810 degree. And this wasn't, you know, Improv 101. 00:02:41.090 --> 00:02:44.710 This was pure discipline classical theater training. 00:02:44.930 --> 00:02:47.250 Wow. Yeah. And if you think about what that involves, 00:02:47.509 --> 00:02:49.780 classical training, I mean. Yeah. Voice projection, 00:02:49.979 --> 00:02:52.259 physical commitment, deep character work, analyzing 00:02:52.259 --> 00:02:55.819 text. It demands this discipline that, you know, 00:02:55.840 --> 00:02:58.139 can seem totally opposite to the sort of anarchic 00:02:58.139 --> 00:03:01.099 yes and vibe of improv. Right. Different worlds. 00:03:01.259 --> 00:03:03.680 Totally. But it's precisely that grounding, I 00:03:03.680 --> 00:03:05.780 think, that lets him commit so fully to the most 00:03:05.780 --> 00:03:08.139 outlandish characters later on without sort of 00:03:08.139 --> 00:03:10.000 winking at the audience. He treats the absurdity 00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:13.300 with like serious theatrical weight. Okay, that 00:03:13.300 --> 00:03:16.319 makes sense. So after that intense formal discipline, 00:03:16.560 --> 00:03:19.360 he immediately just throws himself into the New 00:03:19.360 --> 00:03:21.620 York City comedy scene. First graduation. Yep. 00:03:21.740 --> 00:03:23.879 Moved there with a schoolmate, the actor John 00:03:23.879 --> 00:03:26.219 Daly. They were ready to, you know, make their 00:03:26.219 --> 00:03:28.300 mark on that really competitive scene. In New 00:03:28.300 --> 00:03:30.759 York in the 2000s, that path pretty much meant 00:03:30.759 --> 00:03:33.240 one thing, right? Oh, yeah. Immersion in the 00:03:33.240 --> 00:03:37.139 Upright Citizens Brigade Theater. UCB. That's 00:03:37.139 --> 00:03:39.669 where he really... developed his rhythm, cemented 00:03:39.669 --> 00:03:43.770 his roots in improv and sketch. UCB was, I mean, 00:03:43.789 --> 00:03:47.449 at that time, it was the absolute hub for alternative, 00:03:47.610 --> 00:03:50.509 often dark, boundary -pushing comedy. It required 00:03:50.509 --> 00:03:52.949 you to be quick, inventive, and importantly, 00:03:53.090 --> 00:03:55.490 not afraid of confrontation. And he wasn't just 00:03:55.490 --> 00:03:57.689 like hanging around the edges. He was central 00:03:57.689 --> 00:03:59.969 to a couple of specific groups that really defined 00:03:59.969 --> 00:04:02.530 that early, very idiosyncratic style. That's 00:04:02.530 --> 00:04:05.009 right. He was half of the comedy duo Cracked 00:04:05.009 --> 00:04:07.469 Out with John Daly. Right. And he was also in 00:04:07.469 --> 00:04:10.550 the sketch group called Mr. Bay. Chuckles. Yeah. 00:04:10.590 --> 00:04:12.629 The names alone tell you something. They really 00:04:12.629 --> 00:04:16.290 do. An embrace of the abrasive and the ridiculous, 00:04:16.649 --> 00:04:20.209 Cracked Out was known for this like manic, aggressive 00:04:20.209 --> 00:04:24.600 energy. This is where... That persona, the super 00:04:24.600 --> 00:04:27.560 intense, fast talking, maybe slightly unhinged 00:04:27.560 --> 00:04:30.860 guy was really forged. It was kind of the perfect 00:04:30.860 --> 00:04:34.139 counter training to the structure of UNCSA. Classical 00:04:34.139 --> 00:04:36.459 training taught him how to perform. UCB taught 00:04:36.459 --> 00:04:39.079 him what to perform. Digging into uncomfortable 00:04:39.079 --> 00:04:42.000 truths through absurdity. Now, here's a fantastic 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:44.360 little bit of history. It really speaks to the 00:04:44.360 --> 00:04:47.259 financial reality of trying to make experimental 00:04:47.259 --> 00:04:49.480 art in New York, how he funded his early work. 00:04:50.100 --> 00:04:52.680 It's brilliant, actually. A loop of luck and 00:04:52.680 --> 00:04:55.139 creativity. Oh, it's the classic starving artist 00:04:55.139 --> 00:04:58.500 story, but with this amazing lucky twist. The 00:04:58.500 --> 00:05:00.399 sources mention that a popular and surprisingly 00:05:00.399 --> 00:05:02.939 lucrative New York lottery commercial gave him 00:05:02.939 --> 00:05:05.279 the financial runway he needed. Really? Yeah. 00:05:05.519 --> 00:05:08.300 To keep pursuing those riskier, you know, non 00:05:08.300 --> 00:05:10.000 -commercial projects, he wasn't just relying 00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:11.939 on like waiting tables. This commercial work 00:05:11.939 --> 00:05:13.860 funded the fun stuff. He was a little bit of 00:05:13.860 --> 00:05:15.720 luck guy, wasn't he? In the Take Five campaign. 00:05:15.939 --> 00:05:19.370 Ran for like three years, 2008 to 2011. Exactly. 00:05:19.370 --> 00:05:22.589 Which meant, you know, a constant low level bit 00:05:22.589 --> 00:05:25.589 of visibility and importantly, income, which 00:05:25.589 --> 00:05:27.790 is just gold for an experimental artist trying 00:05:27.790 --> 00:05:30.129 to make rent and, you know, put on weird shows. 00:05:30.230 --> 00:05:32.350 Yeah. Yeah. And there's even this detail that 00:05:32.350 --> 00:05:34.430 Gelman said the character's inspiration was the 00:05:34.430 --> 00:05:37.430 rock guitarist. Guthrie Govan. Isn't that great? 00:05:37.509 --> 00:05:39.569 It just shows his commitment to characterization, 00:05:39.769 --> 00:05:41.810 even for a quick commercial spot. He's looking 00:05:41.810 --> 00:05:45.470 for a specific, intense energy source. Govan's 00:05:45.470 --> 00:05:47.949 known for, you know, technical brilliance, but 00:05:47.949 --> 00:05:51.110 also this distinct kind of eccentric stage presence. 00:05:51.389 --> 00:05:54.790 And that funding, that lottery money, it directly 00:05:54.790 --> 00:05:57.449 allowed him to develop and workshop his really 00:05:57.449 --> 00:06:00.689 ambitious one -man show, 1 ,000 Cats. He did 00:06:00.689 --> 00:06:03.410 it at various small venues around the city, pure 00:06:03.410 --> 00:06:05.810 personal experimental theater. And while he's 00:06:05.810 --> 00:06:07.990 doing these experimental shows, he's also starting 00:06:07.990 --> 00:06:09.829 to get his foot in the door with TV and sketch 00:06:09.829 --> 00:06:12.290 writing. Yeah. Doing voice work, early live action 00:06:12.290 --> 00:06:14.649 stuff. Yeah. Getting exposure beyond the UCB 00:06:14.649 --> 00:06:16.730 bubble. Yeah, definitely. We see him popping 00:06:16.730 --> 00:06:18.589 up on key comedy shows at that time, like the 00:06:18.589 --> 00:06:20.589 Colbert Report. He did some writing for the MTV 00:06:20.589 --> 00:06:23.610 sketch series Human Giant, which was seminal. 00:06:23.629 --> 00:06:26.149 And he landed recurring voice roles on shows 00:06:26.149 --> 00:06:28.779 like The Life and Times of Tim. Which kind of 00:06:28.779 --> 00:06:31.079 laid the groundwork for his later animation career, 00:06:31.180 --> 00:06:33.040 which is often overlooked but actually pretty 00:06:33.040 --> 00:06:36.579 significant for him. Okay, so by the early 2010s... 00:06:37.040 --> 00:06:39.600 He's got the discipline foundation, the experimental 00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:43.180 spirit, a clear comedic voice, and crucially, 00:06:43.199 --> 00:06:45.860 some financial stability thanks to a lottery 00:06:45.860 --> 00:06:48.779 ad. Wild. Pretty wild, yeah. Which sets the stage 00:06:48.779 --> 00:06:51.459 perfectly for Section 2, the Adult Swim era and 00:06:51.459 --> 00:06:53.720 the Dawn of Dark comedy. This is really when 00:06:53.720 --> 00:06:57.620 his unique signature becomes nationally recognized, 00:06:57.920 --> 00:07:00.779 wouldn't you say? Absolutely. This period, roughly 00:07:00.779 --> 00:07:03.720 2010 to 2016, this is where he goes from being 00:07:03.720 --> 00:07:07.160 maybe more of an NYC specific name to a national 00:07:07.160 --> 00:07:10.259 comedy workhorse. Always balancing those experimental 00:07:10.259 --> 00:07:12.759 niche projects with, you know, more mainstream 00:07:12.759 --> 00:07:15.620 broadcast gigs. And the sheer volume of work 00:07:15.620 --> 00:07:17.420 he did then is kind of staggering. It really 00:07:17.420 --> 00:07:19.860 is. On the network side, you've got him co -starring 00:07:19.860 --> 00:07:23.300 as Mr. K on NBC's Go On that starred Matthew 00:07:23.300 --> 00:07:26.490 Perry. Right. Post France. Yeah. That's 22 episodes, 00:07:26.829 --> 00:07:30.810 mainstream multi -can sitcom, 2012 -2013. So 00:07:30.810 --> 00:07:33.870 he's proving he can play a recognizable, if quirky, 00:07:34.009 --> 00:07:36.230 supporting role in a very traditional format. 00:07:36.470 --> 00:07:38.730 But at the exact same time, he's deeply embedded 00:07:38.730 --> 00:07:41.310 in the cable and alternative scene. He's holding 00:07:41.310 --> 00:07:44.110 down multiple regular roles that needed that 00:07:44.110 --> 00:07:47.209 distinct high -intensity Gelman style. Like Eagleheart. 00:07:47.370 --> 00:07:50.170 Exactly. Brett Mobley, Chris Elliott's sidekick 00:07:50.170 --> 00:07:52.790 in the live -action adult swim series Eagleheart. 00:07:52.910 --> 00:07:56.920 That was 26 episodes. 2011 to 2014. And he was 00:07:56.920 --> 00:07:59.740 AJ on the FX comedy Married. Critically respected, 00:07:59.959 --> 00:08:01.779 maybe a bit niche, but that was 23 episodes. 00:08:02.120 --> 00:08:04.339 And then just tons of sporting work all over 00:08:04.339 --> 00:08:06.699 cable. He was Mr. Gilbert, the aggressive headmaster 00:08:06.699 --> 00:08:08.800 in the Inbetweeners remake. Yep, seven episodes 00:08:08.800 --> 00:08:11.079 of that. Hamish Crassus in another period for 00:08:11.079 --> 00:08:13.720 20 episodes. That show was nuts. Hilarious. And 00:08:13.720 --> 00:08:15.759 Ronnie in Blunt Talk with Patrick Stewart, six 00:08:15.759 --> 00:08:19.470 episodes there. He was just... Everywhere. Adapting 00:08:19.470 --> 00:08:21.930 his tone slightly for each, but always bringing 00:08:21.930 --> 00:08:24.610 that that underlying intensity. And he's getting 00:08:24.610 --> 00:08:26.870 those foundational film appearances to small 00:08:26.870 --> 00:08:29.649 roles, but important. The other guys in 2010 00:08:29.649 --> 00:08:33.210 and he played the super stressed pizza boss in 00:08:33.210 --> 00:08:36.110 30 minutes or less in 2011. Right. So this whole 00:08:36.110 --> 00:08:38.629 period, it's really about proving he could translate 00:08:38.629 --> 00:08:41.990 that niche persona into commercial appeal across 00:08:41.990 --> 00:08:44.690 basically every medium possible. However. Yeah. 00:08:45.259 --> 00:08:47.860 The work that really defined the Brett Gelman 00:08:47.860 --> 00:08:49.879 experience for a lot of people back then. Yeah. 00:08:49.960 --> 00:08:52.899 The stuff that maybe prepared audiences for how 00:08:52.899 --> 00:08:55.240 uncomfortable Martin and Fleabag would be. Yeah. 00:08:55.340 --> 00:08:57.320 That has to be his Adult Swim Dinner specials. 00:08:57.320 --> 00:08:59.960 Oh, absolutely. Those specials were... Something 00:08:59.960 --> 00:09:02.620 else. Highly controversial, deeply unsettling, 00:09:02.620 --> 00:09:04.960 totally unique. They weren't just sketches. They 00:09:04.960 --> 00:09:06.700 felt like intentional performance art designed 00:09:06.700 --> 00:09:09.879 to make you squirm. There may be the purest distillation 00:09:09.879 --> 00:09:12.019 of his whole gel mania philosophy, but in video 00:09:12.019 --> 00:09:14.440 form. The first one, Dinner with Friends with 00:09:14.440 --> 00:09:17.120 Brett Gelman and friends. That was 2014. It set 00:09:17.120 --> 00:09:19.960 the template. Take a civilized event, the dinner 00:09:19.960 --> 00:09:22.360 party, and just systematically dismantle it with 00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:25.120 awkwardness, passive aggression, outright hostility. 00:09:25.399 --> 00:09:28.000 And they didn't just stop there, right? The sources 00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:30.860 say they escalated conceptually. There were sequels. 00:09:31.340 --> 00:09:33.879 Dinner with family with Brett Gelman and Brett 00:09:33.879 --> 00:09:37.340 Gelman's family in 2015, which, you know, likely 00:09:37.340 --> 00:09:40.179 turned that psychological spotlight inward onto 00:09:40.179 --> 00:09:42.940 core family dynamics. Probably even more uncomfortable. 00:09:43.299 --> 00:09:45.879 Probably. And then the really provocative one. 00:09:46.409 --> 00:09:48.970 Dinner in America with Brett Gelman in 2016. 00:09:49.509 --> 00:09:52.549 The source material specifically points out its 00:09:52.549 --> 00:09:56.340 focus was on racism. These were never easy watches. 00:09:56.580 --> 00:09:59.600 They combined his classical ability to sustain 00:09:59.600 --> 00:10:02.620 a really committed, dramatic performance within 00:10:02.620 --> 00:10:05.399 this unbearable, almost theatrical reality. Pushing 00:10:05.399 --> 00:10:07.620 the boundaries of what comedy even meant on cable 00:10:07.620 --> 00:10:10.240 TV, they felt like intentional acts of confrontation. 00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:12.399 Which is a perfect parallel to his podcasting 00:10:12.399 --> 00:10:14.019 work at the time, actually. Totally. This era 00:10:14.019 --> 00:10:17.200 also saw him get really involved in the burgeoning 00:10:17.200 --> 00:10:19.860 podcast scene. Another crucial outlet for his 00:10:19.860 --> 00:10:21.639 whole approach to comedy. He was constantly on 00:10:21.639 --> 00:10:25.049 comedy. Bang, bang. A fixture there, yeah. And 00:10:25.049 --> 00:10:28.230 he launched his own podcast, Gelmania, in 2011 00:10:28.230 --> 00:10:31.409 on the Earwolf Network. And this show, maybe 00:10:31.409 --> 00:10:34.090 more than any visual work, really cemented his 00:10:34.090 --> 00:10:37.049 comedic manifesto, I think. He gave this absolutely 00:10:37.049 --> 00:10:39.509 perfect description of what he wanted the show 00:10:39.509 --> 00:10:41.610 to be. And honestly, it feels like a mission 00:10:41.610 --> 00:10:43.769 statement for his whole career. He said he wanted 00:10:43.769 --> 00:10:46.490 Gelmania to, quote, reflect a lot of the fears 00:10:46.490 --> 00:10:49.230 and anger and sadness of the world, but do that 00:10:49.230 --> 00:10:51.610 through a really stupid lens. And if you just 00:10:51.610 --> 00:10:54.559 take that quote. It explains everything, doesn't 00:10:54.559 --> 00:10:56.759 it? It really does. Murray Bauman's paranoia. 00:10:56.779 --> 00:10:59.799 It reflects real societal fears, right? Shadowy 00:10:59.799 --> 00:11:03.129 government stuff, misinformation. Presented through 00:11:03.129 --> 00:11:05.450 the lens of this highly theatrical, slightly 00:11:05.450 --> 00:11:08.110 ridiculous character who, you know, needs a Russian 00:11:08.110 --> 00:11:11.529 translator and vodka. Martin in Fleabag reflects 00:11:11.529 --> 00:11:14.269 the deep sadness and anger of a toxic relationship. 00:11:14.529 --> 00:11:16.870 But filtered through the stupid lens of a guy 00:11:16.870 --> 00:11:19.090 who's just so oblivious and self -involved, it 00:11:19.090 --> 00:11:22.210 becomes darkly comical. That idea of taking real 00:11:22.210 --> 00:11:24.850 emotional truth and filtering it through controlled 00:11:24.850 --> 00:11:27.929 theatrical stupidity. Yeah. That feels like the 00:11:27.929 --> 00:11:30.929 key to understanding him. I think so. And even 00:11:30.929 --> 00:11:33.190 though Gelmania moved off Earwolf for its second 00:11:33.190 --> 00:11:36.350 season in 2014, that philosophy was locked in. 00:11:36.490 --> 00:11:39.110 It defines his approach. And then late 2016, 00:11:39.309 --> 00:11:41.769 we hit this huge turning point. His complete 00:11:41.769 --> 00:11:45.230 split from Cartoon Network and Adult Swim. And 00:11:45.230 --> 00:11:48.029 it wasn't quiet. It was a very public... principled 00:11:48.029 --> 00:11:50.110 stand. Yeah, a massive moment, really significant 00:11:50.110 --> 00:11:53.730 for his public persona. November 2016, he announces 00:11:53.730 --> 00:11:56.409 he's severing ties. And the reasons he gave were 00:11:56.409 --> 00:12:00.210 serious, multifaceted. First, he cited the network's 00:12:00.210 --> 00:12:02.610 alleged poor treatment of female employees. Right. 00:12:02.669 --> 00:12:05.610 And second, he specifically called out the network 00:12:05.610 --> 00:12:07.710 for promoting the controversial sketch show, 00:12:07.850 --> 00:12:10.710 Million Dollar Extreme Presence, World Peace. 00:12:11.009 --> 00:12:12.490 Which was getting a lot of heat at the time. 00:12:12.590 --> 00:12:14.690 A lot of heat. So this departure was huge because 00:12:14.690 --> 00:12:17.049 Adult Swim had basically been his creative home 00:12:17.049 --> 00:12:19.529 turf for years. It gave him the platform for 00:12:19.529 --> 00:12:22.009 his most unique, defining stuff, like the dinner 00:12:22.009 --> 00:12:24.009 specials. Stepping away from that, from that 00:12:24.009 --> 00:12:26.690 niche but reliable platform, purely on principle. 00:12:26.850 --> 00:12:29.570 That's a massive career risk. Huge. It signaled 00:12:29.570 --> 00:12:31.690 Gelman was willing to put his moral and political 00:12:31.690 --> 00:12:34.710 beliefs ahead of, you know, financial and creative 00:12:34.710 --> 00:12:37.850 security. But maybe, maybe closing that door 00:12:37.850 --> 00:12:40.289 immediately opened the next one, the one to international 00:12:40.289 --> 00:12:43.070 mainstream success. Which brings us right into 00:12:43.070 --> 00:12:45.509 section three. The breakthrough in dramatic range. 00:12:45.649 --> 00:12:48.149 Yeah, the timing is just incredible. Almost immediately 00:12:48.149 --> 00:12:50.909 after that very public split, his career just 00:12:50.909 --> 00:12:54.230 explodes onto the international stage, starting 00:12:54.230 --> 00:12:56.610 with the arrival, basically simultaneously, of 00:12:56.610 --> 00:12:59.990 his two most recognizable roles in 2016 and 2017. 00:13:00.450 --> 00:13:03.110 Okay, let's start with Fleabag. He's cast as 00:13:03.110 --> 00:13:05.529 Martin, Claire's husband, series regular across 00:13:05.529 --> 00:13:08.929 both seasons, seven episodes total, 2016 to 2019. 00:13:09.309 --> 00:13:12.419 And this role may be more than any other. showed 00:13:12.419 --> 00:13:14.639 how his specific brand of uncomfortable comedy 00:13:14.639 --> 00:13:17.820 could translate into really powerful drama. Martin 00:13:17.820 --> 00:13:20.220 is just, he's the absolute antithesis of the 00:13:20.220 --> 00:13:22.519 typical sitcom husband, isn't he? He's repulsive, 00:13:22.740 --> 00:13:25.139 self -pitying, psychologically manipulative. 00:13:25.200 --> 00:13:27.519 But Gelman commits to it with the precision of 00:13:27.519 --> 00:13:29.600 a classical actor. He doesn't play Martin just 00:13:29.600 --> 00:13:31.779 for laughs. He plays the toxicity for an uncomfortable 00:13:31.779 --> 00:13:35.059 reality. That's the key point, I think. When 00:13:35.059 --> 00:13:38.029 you watch Martin... you feel the tension and 00:13:38.029 --> 00:13:40.610 the trauma he inflicts on Claire. That classical 00:13:40.610 --> 00:13:43.210 training allowed him to ground the character's 00:13:43.210 --> 00:13:46.070 emotional truth, which made his absurdly inappropriate 00:13:46.070 --> 00:13:48.970 behavior like, you know, lying about a miscarriage 00:13:48.970 --> 00:13:51.570 land with genuine dramatic force, not just as 00:13:51.570 --> 00:13:53.669 a punchline. Exactly. It totally shifted audience 00:13:53.669 --> 00:13:55.769 perception. Suddenly, he wasn't just the weird 00:13:55.769 --> 00:13:58.330 guy from Adult Swim. He was a performer capable 00:13:58.330 --> 00:14:01.029 of carrying serious dramatic weight within this 00:14:01.029 --> 00:14:04.409 universally acclaimed narrative. And almost at 00:14:04.409 --> 00:14:07.429 the exact same time, He gets announced for Stranger 00:14:07.429 --> 00:14:10.610 Things as Murray Bauman. Starts out recurring 00:14:10.610 --> 00:14:13.470 season two and three. Perfect blend of comedy 00:14:13.470 --> 00:14:16.289 and investigation in that role. But the character 00:14:16.289 --> 00:14:19.809 became so essential to the plot, you know, handling 00:14:19.809 --> 00:14:22.250 exposition, driving the paranoia, that he got 00:14:22.250 --> 00:14:24.730 promoted. Main cats for the massive fourth season. 00:14:25.230 --> 00:14:27.230 Solidified his international stardom right there. 00:14:27.480 --> 00:14:29.960 Murray Bauman is Gelman's comedic philosophy 00:14:29.960 --> 00:14:31.960 just packaged for a mass audience, isn't it? 00:14:32.039 --> 00:14:34.980 He's the embodiment of those fears and anger 00:14:34.980 --> 00:14:38.879 of the world, shadowy government. Russians, monsters, 00:14:39.080 --> 00:14:42.580 filtered through that really stupid, albeit functional 00:14:42.580 --> 00:14:45.860 lens of a slightly unhinged reporter living in 00:14:45.860 --> 00:14:48.259 a bunker. He's great at handling exposition, 00:14:48.259 --> 00:14:51.100 too. He really is. Think about those long scenes 00:14:51.100 --> 00:14:53.259 in season three where Murray's translating Russian 00:14:53.259 --> 00:14:56.120 or explaining complicated plans. Because he has 00:14:56.120 --> 00:14:59.019 that UCB background, that speed, and that intense 00:14:59.019 --> 00:15:01.679 stage presence from classical training, he can 00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:04.620 deliver dense, rapid -fire dialogue while staying 00:15:04.620 --> 00:15:07.360 physically and vocally intense. He keeps you 00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:09.899 hooked, even when it's just information. Yeah, 00:15:09.960 --> 00:15:12.120 totally. Now, while he's hitting it big as an 00:15:12.120 --> 00:15:14.419 actor, he also made sure he kept control over 00:15:14.419 --> 00:15:17.559 his own creative voice. The 2017 dark comedy 00:15:17.559 --> 00:15:20.580 film Lemon feels like his self -authored thesis 00:15:20.580 --> 00:15:22.340 statement on the kind of comedy he wants to make. 00:15:22.480 --> 00:15:24.659 Lemon was a huge creative step. He co -wrote 00:15:24.659 --> 00:15:26.480 it, starred as Isaac Lockman, this struggling, 00:15:26.580 --> 00:15:28.720 abrasive actor spiraling out. And crucially, 00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:31.519 it was directed by his then -spouse, Janice Bravo. 00:15:31.899 --> 00:15:34.059 So you had this intimate, collaborative environment 00:15:34.059 --> 00:15:36.080 allowing him to just dive into the absolute. 00:15:36.169 --> 00:15:38.450 depths of discomfort. Premiered at Sundance, 00:15:38.529 --> 00:15:40.909 it was a challenging watch, definitely. A really 00:15:40.909 --> 00:15:43.590 uncomfortable character study. It proved that 00:15:43.590 --> 00:15:45.809 even with Stranger Things blowing up, he was 00:15:45.809 --> 00:15:47.889 still committed to that intentionally abrasive 00:15:47.889 --> 00:15:51.269 niche work that defined his... adult swim stuff. 00:15:51.429 --> 00:15:53.450 Right. And look at the supporting cast, Judy 00:15:53.450 --> 00:15:56.289 Greer, Michael Cera, Nia Long, Gillian Jacobs. 00:15:56.610 --> 00:15:59.029 That tells you about his growing cachet within 00:15:59.029 --> 00:16:01.950 the indie film world by then. Definitely. And 00:16:01.950 --> 00:16:04.230 this whole era, it wasn't just live action either. 00:16:04.309 --> 00:16:06.610 While he's taking on these main dramatic roles 00:16:06.610 --> 00:16:09.169 like George in HBO's Camping or Roland Finkelstein 00:16:09.169 --> 00:16:12.450 in Mr. Mercedes, he kept up a really significant 00:16:12.450 --> 00:16:15.509 and diverse voice acting portfolio. Yeah. Which 00:16:15.509 --> 00:16:17.149 is smart. It's the practical work that keeps 00:16:17.149 --> 00:16:20.190 an actor versatile and, frankly, busy. He had 00:16:20.190 --> 00:16:23.169 the main voice role as Jeff in Jeff and some 00:16:23.169 --> 00:16:25.070 Aliens for 10 episodes. Right. Then moved into 00:16:25.070 --> 00:16:27.809 Netflix animation pretty heavily. Voiced Marcellus 00:16:27.809 --> 00:16:30.690 in I Heart Arlo for 18 episodes. And maybe his 00:16:30.690 --> 00:16:33.659 most beloved recent animated role. Magic Mike, 00:16:33.820 --> 00:16:37.299 the cynical, perpetually annoyed mushroom creature 00:16:37.299 --> 00:16:40.899 inside Job. Oh, Magic Mike is pure Gelman. Totally. 00:16:40.960 --> 00:16:43.759 It's that voice, right? Extreme frustration, 00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:47.500 weary cynicism delivered with just perfect comedic 00:16:47.500 --> 00:16:50.500 timing and the ability to shift from the timing 00:16:50.500 --> 00:16:53.259 needed for an animated mushroom to the really 00:16:53.259 --> 00:16:57.250 serious, dramatic roles he tackled in 2024. That's 00:16:57.250 --> 00:16:58.909 the definition of the range we're talking about. 00:16:58.990 --> 00:17:00.450 And that's where you see the full circle land. 00:17:00.710 --> 00:17:03.570 The industry now fully trusts his ability to 00:17:03.570 --> 00:17:06.769 handle genuinely dark, complex, dramatic material. 00:17:07.230 --> 00:17:11.250 In 2024 alone, two deeply grounded serious roles. 00:17:11.569 --> 00:17:14.029 Yeah. First, the main role as Milton in the Apple 00:17:14.029 --> 00:17:16.410 TV Plus drama series Lady and the Lake. Seven 00:17:16.410 --> 00:17:19.049 episodes, high profile production needs grounded 00:17:19.049 --> 00:17:21.769 dramatic focus. And second, he took on playing 00:17:21.769 --> 00:17:24.130 Terry Nichols in the historical drama film McVeigh. 00:17:24.390 --> 00:17:26.329 Nichols being, of course, the co -conspirator 00:17:26.329 --> 00:17:29.369 in the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing. Wow. That 00:17:29.369 --> 00:17:31.950 transition from voicing Magic Malick to portraying 00:17:31.950 --> 00:17:34.049 Terry Nichols. That's a stunning endorsement 00:17:34.049 --> 00:17:36.009 of his dramatic abilities. It confirms that classical 00:17:36.009 --> 00:17:38.799 training. from decades ago is now fully informing 00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:41.339 his mainstream dramatic work. Absolutely. He 00:17:41.339 --> 00:17:43.279 truly contains multitudes. I mean, he also slipped 00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:45.220 in playing the family film villain Mr. Grumps 00:17:45.220 --> 00:17:50.460 in Lyle Crocodile back in 2022. Right. Can't 00:17:50.460 --> 00:17:52.759 forget Mr. Grumps. It just speaks to the power 00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:54.339 of the character actor today, doesn't it? If 00:17:54.339 --> 00:17:56.839 you define a new commit to it, eventually you 00:17:56.839 --> 00:17:59.079 become essential. You can move fluidly between 00:17:59.079 --> 00:18:01.759 genre, between media. And that intense commitment 00:18:01.759 --> 00:18:05.700 to his beliefs, his voice, whether it's artistic, 00:18:06.179 --> 00:18:08.559 Yeah. That brings us straight to section four, 00:18:08.700 --> 00:18:12.019 personal life and vocal activism, because this 00:18:12.019 --> 00:18:14.400 part of his story shows that the confrontation 00:18:14.400 --> 00:18:16.799 we saw in his comedy, it's now very much part 00:18:16.799 --> 00:18:19.380 of his public identity. Yeah. First, though, 00:18:19.460 --> 00:18:21.920 let's touch on the personal history, which. Kind 00:18:21.920 --> 00:18:24.119 of delightfully circles right back to where his 00:18:24.119 --> 00:18:26.700 career funding came from. Oh, yeah. Gellman married 00:18:26.700 --> 00:18:30.059 director Janitza Bravo in December 2015. They 00:18:30.059 --> 00:18:32.299 met in New York City while working on, and this 00:18:32.299 --> 00:18:34.880 is almost too perfect, a New York lotto commercial. 00:18:35.220 --> 00:18:37.599 Get out. That's amazing. Isn't it? The commercial 00:18:37.599 --> 00:18:39.819 gives him the stability, which lets him do the 00:18:39.819 --> 00:18:41.940 experimental comedy, which leads to the collaboration 00:18:41.940 --> 00:18:44.539 that produced Lemon. And, oh, by the way, it's 00:18:44.539 --> 00:18:47.599 where he met his first wife. That lottery spot 00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:51.599 really was a pivotal bit of luck. Wow. Okay. 00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:54.960 They divorced in 2018. Right. And more recently, 00:18:55.059 --> 00:18:57.720 he announced his engagement to actress and model 00:18:57.720 --> 00:19:01.660 Ari Dayan on Instagram in April 2023. And they 00:19:01.660 --> 00:19:04.220 got married in 2025. Okay. Now let's address 00:19:04.220 --> 00:19:06.880 his vocal activism. This has put him squarely 00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:09.099 into some very high stakes public discussions, 00:19:09.339 --> 00:19:12.440 especially around global politics. And it's really 00:19:12.440 --> 00:19:14.660 vital here that we just report this impartially. 00:19:14.839 --> 00:19:17.220 Convey what the sources say without taking sides 00:19:17.220 --> 00:19:19.420 or endorsing any views. We're just conveying 00:19:19.420 --> 00:19:21.690 the reported facts of it. his public life. Agreed. 00:19:21.690 --> 00:19:24.170 The source material is very clear on this. Gelman 00:19:24.170 --> 00:19:26.569 has been described as a, quote, vocal supporter 00:19:26.569 --> 00:19:29.589 of Israel on Instagram throughout the Gaza war. 00:19:30.009 --> 00:19:32.309 And this activism wasn't just, you know, posting 00:19:32.309 --> 00:19:35.269 things online. It led to a significant, organized 00:19:35.269 --> 00:19:38.970 public confrontation in November 2023. Directed 00:19:38.970 --> 00:19:41.049 at TikTok, the social media platform. Exactly. 00:19:41.410 --> 00:19:43.990 Gelman was part of a group, a collective of creators 00:19:43.990 --> 00:19:46.329 and celebrities who publicly addressed TikTok 00:19:46.329 --> 00:19:49.529 executives in an open letter. And the core allegation 00:19:49.529 --> 00:19:52.230 in that letter was very specific. Extremely specific. 00:19:52.569 --> 00:19:55.710 The creators claimed the app was directly facilitating 00:19:55.710 --> 00:19:58.549 and amplifying the spread of anti -Semitism on 00:19:58.549 --> 00:20:01.690 its platform. That's a direct claim about algorithmic 00:20:01.690 --> 00:20:05.000 behavior and content moderation policy. And the 00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:07.519 source material details TikTok's response. As 00:20:07.519 --> 00:20:10.500 a huge global platform, they reportedly countered 00:20:10.500 --> 00:20:13.440 those claims publicly. They stated that they 00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:16.240 regularly moderate anti -Semitic content as well 00:20:16.240 --> 00:20:19.059 as anti -Arab racist and Islamophobic content. 00:20:19.299 --> 00:20:21.440 But crucially. Crucially, they drew a distinction 00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:24.180 stating they do not moderate or amplify content 00:20:24.180 --> 00:20:26.940 that is expressing political criticism of the 00:20:26.940 --> 00:20:29.279 Israeli government. And that conflict right there 00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:31.599 just perfectly illustrates the incredibly complex 00:20:31.599 --> 00:20:33.819 challenge these platforms face, right? Right. 00:20:33.900 --> 00:20:36.160 Balancing free expression, political critique 00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:38.299 and hate speech moderation, especially during 00:20:38.299 --> 00:20:41.079 active global conflicts. Yeah. For Gelman, though, 00:20:41.180 --> 00:20:44.000 this was clearly an active, high profile way 00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:46.500 of translating his discomfort with systemic issues 00:20:46.500 --> 00:20:49.200 into public action, taking a stand. And it wasn't 00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:51.519 just aimed at American platforms. Later that 00:20:51.519 --> 00:20:54.920 same year, 2023, the source notes he actually 00:20:54.920 --> 00:20:57.680 appeared on Eretz Neheteret, which is a hugely 00:20:57.680 --> 00:21:01.119 popular Israeli sketch comedy show. Right. And 00:21:01.119 --> 00:21:02.700 the Times of Israel described his appearance 00:21:02.700 --> 00:21:06.079 as specifically, quote, skewering the anti -Israel 00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:08.259 sentiment in the American left and especially 00:21:08.259 --> 00:21:11.160 on campus. So that confirms his willingness to 00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:13.500 engage directly in that political and cultural 00:21:13.500 --> 00:21:16.500 debate using comedy as his platform, much like 00:21:16.500 --> 00:21:19.059 the Adult Swim specials, maybe, but this time 00:21:19.059 --> 00:21:21.720 with incredibly real world political stakes. 00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:23.859 And there's a clear indication that this advocacy 00:21:23.859 --> 00:21:26.900 came at a personal cost. The source notes Gelman 00:21:26.900 --> 00:21:31.710 himself stated in November 2023, quote, Wow. 00:21:32.230 --> 00:21:34.809 That one sentence really underscores the high 00:21:34.809 --> 00:21:37.170 stakes of his vocal position. It completes the 00:21:37.170 --> 00:21:39.369 picture, doesn't it, of a performer who seems 00:21:39.369 --> 00:21:42.269 unable or unwilling to separate his personal 00:21:42.269 --> 00:21:44.650 convictions from his public platform. That willingness 00:21:44.650 --> 00:21:47.210 to engage in uncomfortable confrontation, which 00:21:47.210 --> 00:21:49.490 maybe started as a comedic tool to explore truth, 00:21:49.650 --> 00:21:52.710 is now manifesting as very serious, potentially 00:21:52.710 --> 00:21:55.910 isolating public advocacy. He just does not shy 00:21:55.910 --> 00:21:58.210 away from the abrasive. Which brings us nicely 00:21:58.210 --> 00:22:01.430 to our synthesis, our final takeaways. When we 00:22:01.430 --> 00:22:03.890 look back at the whole career path, there's this 00:22:03.890 --> 00:22:06.470 fascinating and consistent pattern. You've got 00:22:06.470 --> 00:22:08.529 the intense discipline of classical training 00:22:08.529 --> 00:22:11.410 providing the bedrock. Then the experimental 00:22:11.410 --> 00:22:15.349 confrontational world of UCB and Adult Swim providing 00:22:15.349 --> 00:22:18.049 the unique voice. And those two things together 00:22:18.049 --> 00:22:21.329 led to this sustained mainstream career where 00:22:21.329 --> 00:22:23.529 he constantly plays characters who are paranoid. 00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:27.339 or intense or morally ambiguous. His true genius, 00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:30.460 I think, lies in using that classical commitment 00:22:30.460 --> 00:22:33.720 to ground the deeply absurd. His signature isn't 00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:36.539 just being awkward. It's the intense, believable 00:22:36.539 --> 00:22:39.160 commitment to an unbearable situation, whether 00:22:39.160 --> 00:22:41.119 he's hosting a horrific dinner party, translating 00:22:41.119 --> 00:22:43.420 Russian in a bunker or being the psychological 00:22:43.420 --> 00:22:45.819 tormentor Martin and Fleabag. And we can't forget 00:22:45.819 --> 00:22:48.519 that lovely, almost perfect narrative loop of 00:22:48.519 --> 00:22:50.319 the New York lottery commercial. It's great. 00:22:50.420 --> 00:22:52.440 The financial little bit of luck that funded 00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:54.470 the early risky. comedy and also the place he 00:22:54.470 --> 00:22:56.150 met the collaborator who helped him realize his 00:22:56.150 --> 00:22:59.829 most ambitious film vision, Lemon, that initial 00:22:59.829 --> 00:23:02.549 lottery win truly funded his entire creative 00:23:02.549 --> 00:23:04.950 path in a way. And what really stands out looking 00:23:04.950 --> 00:23:07.849 across the whole timeline is the profound consistency 00:23:07.849 --> 00:23:11.900 of His character, maybe. He takes risks, creatively 00:23:11.900 --> 00:23:14.599 leaving Adult Swim on principle and politically 00:23:14.599 --> 00:23:17.519 through his very public activism. Now, his whole 00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:20.119 persona seems predicated on confrontation, whether 00:23:20.119 --> 00:23:22.339 that confrontation is artistic or ideological. 00:23:22.579 --> 00:23:24.700 So what does this all mean for you, the listener? 00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:27.450 Yeah. We've seen Gelman move definitively into 00:23:27.450 --> 00:23:30.869 really serious, heavy, dramatic territory. Roles 00:23:30.869 --> 00:23:33.329 like Milton in Lady and the Like, playing Terry 00:23:33.329 --> 00:23:35.329 Nichols and McVeigh. Yeah, which raises a really 00:23:35.329 --> 00:23:36.670 interesting question for you to think about. 00:23:36.789 --> 00:23:39.930 How will his history, all that time spent injecting 00:23:39.930 --> 00:23:42.970 genuine, awkward, often painful truth into comedy, 00:23:43.150 --> 00:23:45.509 how will that continue to inform these increasingly 00:23:45.509 --> 00:23:48.009 serious, dramatic roles? Will that comedic background 00:23:48.009 --> 00:23:50.390 make his dramatic villains more complex, more 00:23:50.390 --> 00:23:53.990 sort of painfully human, or maybe just more theatrical? 00:23:54.730 --> 00:23:56.950 using drama to heighten absurdity. Now maybe 00:23:56.950 --> 00:23:59.509 he has to use absurdity to heighten drama. And 00:23:59.509 --> 00:24:04.029 what is his entire journey? You know, from an 00:24:04.029 --> 00:24:06.309 Illinois kid with classical training to an international 00:24:06.309 --> 00:24:08.410 character actor taking really high stakes political 00:24:08.410 --> 00:24:10.750 stands. What does that tell us about the power 00:24:10.750 --> 00:24:13.390 and maybe the necessary unpredictability of the 00:24:13.390 --> 00:24:16.289 character actor today? He seems like proof that 00:24:16.289 --> 00:24:19.269 embracing that niche confrontational voice can, 00:24:19.430 --> 00:24:21.789 if it's backed by real discipline, lead you right 00:24:21.789 --> 00:24:24.029 to the heart of mainstream artistic success. 00:24:24.599 --> 00:24:26.960 Yeah. And maybe an interesting final thought 00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:28.880 to leave you with, connecting right back to the 00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:31.619 start of our deep dive. Gilman said his original 00:24:31.619 --> 00:24:34.920 comedic goal was to reflect the fears and anger 00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:36.440 and sadness of the world, but do that through 00:24:36.440 --> 00:24:38.960 a really stupid lens. Right. As he portrays figures 00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:41.319 like Murray Barman or even historical figures 00:24:41.319 --> 00:24:44.660 like Terry Nichols. How much of his current dramatic 00:24:44.660 --> 00:24:48.400 work is maybe just a more refined but still present 00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:51.180 application of that exact same truth -telling 00:24:51.180 --> 00:24:53.900 stupid lens? Is he still doing the same thing, 00:24:53.940 --> 00:24:56.920 just on a different stage? That's a compelling 00:24:56.920 --> 00:24:59.039 thought to chew on. Thank you for joining us 00:24:59.039 --> 00:24:59.740 on the Deep Dive.