WEBVTT

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Welcome to the Deep Dive, where we take a stack

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of source material on a subject you think you

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know and, well, pull out the surprising insights.

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Today, we are putting on our absolute best clothes,

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checking the Royal Dalton with the hand -painted

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periwinkles, definitely checking those, and making

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sure the car is perfectly clean because we are

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diving deep into the phenomenon that is keeping

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up appearances. And we are going well beyond

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just Hyacinth's executive -style candlelight

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suppers. The sources we've looked at, they reveal

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something pretty astonishing about this, you

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know, beloved BBC sitcom. It was, get this, by

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2016, BBC worldwide's most exported television

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program ever, selling nearly a thousand times

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to overseas broadcasters. Think about that. Wow.

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That kind of global reach for a show that feels

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so very British. Well, it says a lot about how

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universal social anxiety really is, doesn't it?

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It's incredible, truly. That export success just

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proves the whole premise works everywhere. You

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know, the story of the eccentric, snobbish, middle

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-class social climber, Hyacinth Bucket, who,

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and we always have to remember this, insists

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her name is pronounced Bouquet. Exactly. And

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our mission today really is to unpack the paradox

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right at the heart of the show. We've synthesized

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loads of details on the careers, the surprises,

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the often quite high drama backgrounds at the

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core cast. We're finding Patricia Routledge,

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Clive Swift, Josephine Toussaint, Jeffrey Hughes,

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Judy Cornwell, and yeah, both actresses who played

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Rose. So we're asking how much truly extraordinary,

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like classical theatrical pedigree was crammed

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inside that beat up old Ford Cortina or, you

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know, waiting nervously. by the white slimline

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telephone. So for you, our listener, this deep

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dive is going to show you that the performers

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we maybe associate with, working class scruckiness

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or those trembling suburban nerves, they were

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actually, in many cases, titans of the stage.

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Real high drama actors. Let's start right at

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the epicenter of all that aspiration. The lady

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of the house herself. When you picture Hyacinth,

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you immediately see that perfectly coiffed hair,

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don't you? And clothes. Always driving for that

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sort of smart casual at a minor royal garden

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party's vibe. And of course that very strained

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RP accent, which famously cracks into this harsh

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northern sound when she's properly flustered

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or maybe shouting at Richard. Oh, that crack

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in the accent, it's pure gold. It's the key to

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the comedy, really. It's all about the constant

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performance of superiority that Hyacinth maintains.

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She tries so desperately hard to project it onto

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everything she owns, everything she touches.

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Think about her obsession with her dinnerware.

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She's completely fixated on her royal Dalton

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china with the hand -painted periwinkles. And

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then there's the royal Worcester double -glazed

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Avignon china. And that signature telephone greeting,

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the bouquet residence, the lady of the house

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speaking. It's like she's trying to solidify

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her status. just by repeating it. The whole character

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is just a masterclass in social insecurity, but,

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you know, dressed up as snobbery. And what makes

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Patricia Routledge's performance just so, so

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brilliant is that she managed to keep up that

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strenuous kind of brittle delusion for five whole

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seasons. But what's really astonishing, especially

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given how much we only think of her as Mrs. Bucket

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now, is the sheer depth of her actual artistic

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background, her pedigree. This existed long before

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she ever poured tea at an executive -style candlelight

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supper. It really speaks volumes about the caliber

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of acting talent they had on that show. Routledge

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wasn't, you know, just some sitcom actress. She

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was an actress with a really serious foundation

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in classical theater and musical performance,

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too. Her professional stage debut way back in

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1952, Liverpool Playhouse. She was trained, properly

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trained, across the whole spectrum of dramatic

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art. And she had an amazing voice, didn't she?

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It wasn't just the acting job. She was a genuine

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musical talent. Absolutely. A formidable mezzo

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-soprano contralto range. And she used it a lot,

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both in the West End and significantly on Broadway.

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When she decided to move from straight acting

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into musical theater, apparently she became this

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immediate success overseas. You mentioned Broadway,

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and we're not just talking a small part here,

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are we? This was, like, major recognition, top

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tier. Oh, we are talking about winning a Tony

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Award. Yes, Routledge made her Broadway debut

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in 66, just two years later, boom. 1968 Tony

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Award for Best Actress in a Musical. That was

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for playing Alice Chalice in Darling of the Day.

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Now, the show itself. It was a bit troubled.

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Closed really quickly. But Ratledge's performance,

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everyone agreed it was undeniable. She actually

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shared the award with Leslie Uggams that year.

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The contrast is just wonderful, isn't it? The

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woman terrified of dropping a biscuit was a validated

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Broadway star. So the Tony wasn't enough. What

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about back in the UK? Any other big awards for

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her stage work? Oh, yes. Just as decorated back

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home. Across the pond, she got the 1988 Olivier

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Award for Best Actress in a Musical. That was

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for playing the old lady in Leonard Bernstein's

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Candide. Now that role, the old lady, it demands

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enormous dramatic range, serious technical control.

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Critics at the time, they were just raving. One

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said she brought the house down singing I Am

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So Easily Assimilated. So you've got decades

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of really high -level musical theater work way

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before Hyacinth even existed. And she also did

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time with the Royal Shakespeare Company and found

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success away from just comedy and musicals, that

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versatility. The sitcom doesn't always show that.

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that side no it doesn't but her ability to just

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pivot between high comedy serious musical theater

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straight drama it's extraordinary take alan bennett's

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talking heads monologues she was nominated for

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a basta tv award for best actress for a lady

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of letters back in 1988 now that's a role needing

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deep psychological work not just you know funny

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walks and crucially i think for a lot of uk viewers

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the work she did immediately after kua defined

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her just as much Definitely. She transitioned

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straight into the lead role in the detective

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series Hedy Weythrup Investigates. That ran from

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96 to 98. The character Hedy, sort of ordinary

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seeming on the surface, but actually really sharp

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solving local crimes. It was another hugely successful

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role for her. And it let Routledge show her range

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again, moving from the big, broad farce of Hyacinth

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to something much more... restrained, character

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-driven mystery. So it's amazing then, isn't

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it, that a show with that kind of global momentum,

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keeping up appearances, only ran for five series,

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44 episodes, finished in 1995. You'd think that

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it kept that cash cow going for years and years.

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Well, the ending was totally down to Routledge

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herself. And this really speaks to her, I think,

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profound understanding of legacy, career control.

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She made it absolutely clear she didn't want,

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you know, the Tony and Olivier winner to be...

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permanently boiled down to just being remembered

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as Mrs. Bucket. That sounds almost like a philosophical

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stance. Art versus fame. It really was. She specifically

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said she wanted to leave on a high. She consciously

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followed the example of Ronnie Barker, the comedy

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legend, who retired when his shows were still

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massively popular. Her feeling was, basically,

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it's much better for people to ask, why did you

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stop? Rather than, oh, is that still running?

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Yeah. And interestingly, she also offered a bit

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of a professional critique of the writing itself.

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She hinted she felt the writer, Roy Clark, was

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maybe starting to recycle some old ideas near

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the end. She thought the quality might be about

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to dip. So that decision really born out of artistic

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integrity is probably why the show has kept such

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a tight, high quality reputation. And even though

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the show finished nearly 30 years ago now, she

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still talks about it, doesn't she? Sort of cementing

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the association, but also reminding everyone

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of her longevity. Exactly. In 2023, she took

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part in that Channel 5 retrospective, 30 Years

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of Laughs. And then just this year, 2024, the

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BBC did a special. Dame Patricia Routledge remembers

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keeping up appearances, she's 97 now, still managing

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that narrative, acknowledging the role that made

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her globally famous, but making sure we all understand

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the serious artistic depth behind it all. Okay,

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so if Hyacinth is the... The overbearing heart

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of the show, her husband Richard, played by Clive

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Swift, he's got to be the long -suffering backbone,

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hasn't he? He's that reluctant passenger, always

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being dragged off to stately homes, just desperately

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hoping to avoid any kind of social interaction.

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Yeah. He's a wonderful study in just... Quiet

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resignation. Richard's whole life is basically

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defined by trying to keep Hyacinth happy while,

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you know, subtly undermining her through sheer

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exhausted compliance. He worked in finance and

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general purposes for the council, which Hyacinth

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hilariously frames as him being a power and local

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authority. When in reality, he's just this overworked

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local government guy counting down the minutes

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to his mandatory early retirement. And he's the

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one who keeps slipping up, isn't he? Calling

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the family bucket until Hyacinth gives him that

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look. Yes. And just like Patricia Rutledge, Clive

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Swift's comedy persona, that sort of worn -down

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weariness, it was built on an incredibly serious

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foundation in high drama. The sources show he

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shared that same deep theatrical background.

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Absolutely. Swift was another one with serious

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classical training. He performed extensively

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with the Royal Shakespeare Company, the RSC.

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Very prestigious. He was steeped in Shakespeare,

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did countless stage productions long before KUA

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ever came along. His film list is quite something,

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too. It's a real mix. Goes from Shakespeare right

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through to, like, horror. It's a remarkable range.

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Yeah. On the classical side, you've got him playing

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Snug in Peter Hall's 1968 film of the RSC's A

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Midsummer Night's Dream. He was alongside huge

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names like Helen Mirren, Diana Rigg. Then later

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he took on that big mythological role, Sir Ector

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King Arthur's adoptive dad in John Borman's epic

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1981 film Excalibur. That tells you something

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about the kind of serious weight he carried as

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an actor. And then there's his work in classic

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horror, which is maybe the most surprising link

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to Richard Bucket. Yeah. For fans of classic

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British TV, Swift is also kind of a key figure

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in those brilliant BBC ghost stories for Christmas.

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Based on M .R. James's creepy tales, he played

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Dr. Black in the stalls of Barchester and also

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a warning to the curious to go from delivering

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that kind of subtle chills in those really atmospheric

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dramas to playing a man terrified his wife might

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sing at the vicar. That's range. He also popped

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up in Doctor Who later on, and there's that fantastic,

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slightly grumpy story about his second appearance

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in 2007, isn't there? This anecdote is just peak

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Richard Bucket. Swift was in the 2007 Christmas

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special, Voyage of the Damned. Around the time

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it aired, he gave an interview to, I think it

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was Doctor Who magazine. But instead of being

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all enthusiastic, you know, promoting it, he

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gave this famously grumpy interview, complained

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about not getting paid extra his words, not getting

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paid to promote the episode. He even sort of

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lightly belittled the show, suggesting it was

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a bit beneath him, just displaying that classic,

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weary, almost resigned irritation that was Richard.

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He retired from acting about 10 years later,

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2017, after doing an episode of Midsomer Murders.

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Stayed true to that slightly cantankerous, brilliant

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persona right to the end. Okay, so from the long

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-suffering husband, let's pivot to the equally

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long -suffering neighbor, Elizabeth Liz Worden,

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played by the wonderful Josephine Tewson. Liz

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is basically Hyacinth's emotional coffee -spilling

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punchbag. Liz's main job in the show, comically

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speaking, is crucial. She's the neighbor, the

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reluctant confidant whose nerves just completely

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shred the second she walks into the bouquet house.

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Her sheer anticipation of Hyacinth's social intensity

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always leads to disaster, doesn't it? Spilled

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coffee, dropped biscuits, and that constant terror

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of smashing the precious royal Dalton china,

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usually on Hyacinth's Burmese rug. Toussaint

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had to nail that high -strung, perpetually trembling

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anxiety, and she did, flawlessly. In Toussaint's

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career, Again, it stretches across multiple eras

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of British comedy to show she was also a really

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seasoned pro long before she started spilling

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tea all over Mrs. Bouquet's sofa. Oh, she was

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a true stalwart of British TV. Her career went

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right back to the 1950s. She had significant

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roles in classic shows like Z Cars, appeared

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regularly in The Dick Emery Show. And importantly,

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she was Jane Travers and Ronnie Barker's very

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last starring TV role before he retired the sitcom

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Clarence in 1988. So that's a direct link to

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the absolute top tier of British comedy. She

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was also Mrs. H in the popular... 80s sitcom

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Shelly. Lots of people remember her from that.

00:12:01.799 --> 00:12:05.299
And Roy Clark, the writer of KUA, he clearly

00:12:05.299 --> 00:12:07.659
rated her because she followed him straight into

00:12:07.659 --> 00:12:10.299
another huge show, didn't she? Yes, that connection

00:12:10.299 --> 00:12:12.980
continued. After KUA finished, Clark brought

00:12:12.980 --> 00:12:15.460
her into Last of the Summer Wine. She appeared

00:12:15.460 --> 00:12:18.139
semi -regularly as Miss Lucinda Davenport from

00:12:18.139 --> 00:12:21.659
2003 right up to 2010. She also kept up a stage

00:12:21.659 --> 00:12:24.879
presence after KUA. She launched her own successful

00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:27.659
touring one -woman show, still keeping up appearances,

00:12:28.039 --> 00:12:30.639
capitalized on the fame, obviously, but gave

00:12:30.639 --> 00:12:33.360
her control over her own material. That ran from

00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:36.220
2012 right up until 2019. We should probably

00:12:36.220 --> 00:12:38.179
also mention that interesting parallel between

00:12:38.179 --> 00:12:40.230
Liz and Hyacinth about the unseen relatives.

00:12:40.549 --> 00:12:42.950
It's a neat recurring thing in the series. It's

00:12:42.950 --> 00:12:45.210
a brilliant structural device, actually. Hyacinth's

00:12:45.210 --> 00:12:47.769
son, Sheridan, never seen, Liz's daughter off

00:12:47.769 --> 00:12:49.649
at university, and her husband working abroad.

00:12:49.909 --> 00:12:52.230
Also totally invisible. They just exist as sort

00:12:52.230 --> 00:12:54.830
of status symbols or maybe plot devices. And

00:12:54.830 --> 00:12:56.710
what does that tell us about Hyacinth and Liz's

00:12:56.710 --> 00:12:59.389
relationship? Well, for Hyacinth, Sheridan is

00:12:59.389 --> 00:13:02.029
this constant source of bragging his supposed

00:13:02.029 --> 00:13:06.009
intellectual prowess at the Polytechnic. But

00:13:06.009 --> 00:13:08.230
he's also this constant source of financial worry

00:13:08.230 --> 00:13:10.090
for Richard, who's always having to secretly

00:13:10.090 --> 00:13:12.769
wire him money for his latest creative needlework

00:13:12.769 --> 00:13:15.549
course or whatever it is. And it's strongly implied,

00:13:15.690 --> 00:13:17.830
isn't it, that Sheridan and his roommate Tarquin

00:13:17.830 --> 00:13:21.230
are more than just friends. A reality Hyacinth

00:13:21.230 --> 00:13:23.750
seems blissfully or maybe deliberately unaware

00:13:23.750 --> 00:13:26.350
of. She insists they have a psychic connection.

00:13:27.049 --> 00:13:28.990
For Liz, well, her daughter being at university

00:13:28.990 --> 00:13:31.789
gives her one tiny rare moment of feeling slightly

00:13:31.789 --> 00:13:34.370
superior to Hyacinth, whose son is only at a

00:13:34.370 --> 00:13:36.669
polytechnic. So, yeah, the unseen relatives are

00:13:36.669 --> 00:13:38.850
just more weapons in the ongoing social war between

00:13:38.850 --> 00:13:41.690
them. OK, now let's cross the tracks, metaphorically

00:13:41.690 --> 00:13:44.070
speaking, and step into the world of Hyacinth's

00:13:44.070 --> 00:13:46.789
greatest shame. her sister Daisy, and Daisy's

00:13:46.789 --> 00:13:49.889
husband Onslow. Geoffrey Hughes is Onslow. He's

00:13:49.889 --> 00:13:52.190
just the perfect bone -idle foil to Hyacinth's

00:13:52.190 --> 00:13:55.070
frantic energy. Onslow is the absolute embodiment

00:13:55.070 --> 00:13:58.070
of anti -aspiration, isn't he? He's proudly unkempt,

00:13:58.090 --> 00:14:00.809
a total slob, perpetually parked on that sofa

00:14:00.809 --> 00:14:03.299
in his string vest. Usually got a racing paper

00:14:03.299 --> 00:14:05.980
and a can of beer nearby. He drives that famously

00:14:05.980 --> 00:14:08.639
clapped out Ford Cortina that always backfires

00:14:08.639 --> 00:14:11.360
loudly. Oh, the Cortina. Which, just the sound

00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:13.879
of it arriving, sends Hyacinth into fits of social

00:14:13.879 --> 00:14:16.539
embarrassment. The great irony, of course, is

00:14:16.539 --> 00:14:18.559
that Onslow and Richard get on like a house on

00:14:18.559 --> 00:14:21.940
fire. They share this deep bond over just wanting

00:14:21.940 --> 00:14:24.899
some peace and quiet. And Hughes brought massive

00:14:24.899 --> 00:14:27.700
pre -KUA fame to that role. He was already a

00:14:27.700 --> 00:14:30.120
huge TV star, especially from the world of soap

00:14:30.120 --> 00:14:49.340
operas. Oh, a genuine household. He just had

00:14:49.340 --> 00:14:52.019
that perfect mix of like rough charm and brilliant

00:14:52.019 --> 00:14:54.159
comedic timing and let him jump between genres

00:14:54.159 --> 00:14:57.460
pretty effortlessly. Absolutely. Beyond sitcoms,

00:14:57.460 --> 00:14:59.820
he also moved into detective drama. He got a

00:14:59.820 --> 00:15:02.320
recurring role as... as the sort of lovable con

00:15:02.320 --> 00:15:05.200
man and dodgy businessman Vernon Scripps in the

00:15:05.200 --> 00:15:08.440
long -running ITV drama Heartbeat. He starred

00:15:08.440 --> 00:15:11.860
in that from 2001 to 2005. So that ability to

00:15:11.860 --> 00:15:15.460
switch from soap to sitcom to period drama, it

00:15:15.460 --> 00:15:17.620
really shows his versatility. And we should mention

00:15:17.620 --> 00:15:19.940
his unique voice acting gig, too. He was the

00:15:19.940 --> 00:15:22.360
voice of Paul McCartney in the Beatles' 1968

00:15:22.360 --> 00:15:25.700
animated film Yellow Submarine. That is a great

00:15:25.700 --> 00:15:28.259
bit of trivia. I did not know that. But the most

00:15:28.259 --> 00:15:30.700
unique thing about his post -KUA legacy has got

00:15:30.700 --> 00:15:33.539
to be that bizarre American TV special. Tell

00:15:33.539 --> 00:15:35.820
us a bit more about that. It's a truly remarkable

00:15:35.820 --> 00:15:38.340
piece of, I don't know, commercial genius. In

00:15:38.340 --> 00:15:41.000
2008, Jeffrey Hughes actually reprised the role

00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:43.519
of Onslow for a clip show made for American public

00:15:43.519 --> 00:15:45.519
television. It was called Life Lessons from Onslow.

00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:48.139
The premise was somehow Onslow had been elevated

00:15:48.139 --> 00:15:50.539
to become an open university lecturer, teaching

00:15:50.539 --> 00:15:53.399
a credit course on, wait for it, successful relationships.

00:15:53.860 --> 00:15:56.059
The king of doing absolutely nothing, lecturing

00:15:56.059 --> 00:15:57.919
on relationships. What was the actual content?

00:15:58.259 --> 00:16:01.500
Well, it mostly used classic KUA clips, but Onslow

00:16:01.500 --> 00:16:04.610
provided this absurd, completely deadpan. voiceover

00:16:04.610 --> 00:16:07.429
commentary. The humor came entirely from the

00:16:07.429 --> 00:16:10.009
irony of him giving out wisdom while lounging

00:16:10.009 --> 00:16:12.769
about in his vest. He basically advocated for

00:16:12.769 --> 00:16:15.409
low expectations, minimum effort, and the importance

00:16:15.409 --> 00:16:17.649
of having a good, reliable spouse like Daisy,

00:16:17.850 --> 00:16:20.830
who, crucially, doesn't demand too much. It was

00:16:20.830 --> 00:16:23.529
perfect meta -comedy, really. It highlighted

00:16:23.529 --> 00:16:26.169
how his character, despite being Hyacinth's absolute

00:16:26.169 --> 00:16:29.090
nightmare, had actually achieved a kind of domestic

00:16:29.090 --> 00:16:31.809
bliss just through apathy. And beside Onslow,

00:16:31.929 --> 00:16:34.100
of course, we have his wife, Daisy. played by

00:16:34.100 --> 00:16:36.919
Judy Cornwell. She's Hyacinth's cheerfully down

00:16:36.919 --> 00:16:39.220
-to -earth sister, happy with her lot, which

00:16:39.220 --> 00:16:41.500
for Hyacinth is probably the biggest sin of all.

00:16:41.639 --> 00:16:43.799
Gacy's the total opposite of Hyacinth's entire

00:16:43.799 --> 00:16:46.340
life philosophy, isn't she? She's easygoing,

00:16:46.600 --> 00:16:48.879
completely unambitious, just enjoys her life

00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:51.259
with Onslow. Her mere presence, especially when

00:16:51.259 --> 00:16:53.279
she unexpectedly appears in her dressing gown

00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:55.860
outside the bouquet residence, causes Hyacinth

00:16:55.860 --> 00:16:58.440
severe social panic attacks. Judy Cornwell also

00:16:58.440 --> 00:17:01.120
has this really surprising, almost bohemian backstory

00:17:01.120 --> 00:17:03.419
that seems worlds away from the suburban daisy.

00:17:03.500 --> 00:17:05.880
Her early life was incredibly colorful, yeah.

00:17:06.740 --> 00:17:09.339
Before she got into acting properly, Cornwell

00:17:09.339 --> 00:17:11.079
was actually a professional dancer and comedian

00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:14.440
as a teenager. And this wasn't just local talent

00:17:14.440 --> 00:17:16.720
shows. She performed acts at the Irving Theatre

00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:19.359
Club in London. The source material actually

00:17:19.359 --> 00:17:21.259
reveals her comedy routine was often performed

00:17:21.259 --> 00:17:24.910
in Soho. specifically between the nudes. Wow,

00:17:25.170 --> 00:17:27.970
between the nudes. Imagine that contrast. The

00:17:27.970 --> 00:17:30.569
cheerful, slightly frumpy Daisy used to be a

00:17:30.569 --> 00:17:32.710
comedian performing alongside burlesque acts.

00:17:33.349 --> 00:17:35.589
That's amazing. It's a phenomenal piece of trivia,

00:17:35.670 --> 00:17:37.390
isn't it? She also had some significant film

00:17:37.390 --> 00:17:39.730
roles, too. Right, I think I remember one. Yeah,

00:17:39.789 --> 00:17:41.730
probably best remembered by families for playing

00:17:41.730 --> 00:17:44.309
Anya Claus, Santa's wife, in Santa Claus, the

00:17:44.309 --> 00:17:46.950
movie back in 1985. And later in her career,

00:17:47.029 --> 00:17:49.650
after KUA, she went back to the stage, moved

00:17:49.650 --> 00:17:51.750
away from comedy, more into mystery. She became

00:17:51.750 --> 00:17:54.289
quite a popular choice to play Agatha Christie's

00:17:54.289 --> 00:17:56.549
Miss Marple in various touring stage productions.

00:17:57.309 --> 00:17:59.950
A Murder is Announced, which toured a lot between

00:17:59.950 --> 00:18:11.589
2015 and 2016. So again, you see... Okay, so

00:18:11.589 --> 00:18:14.289
completing the sister trio is Rose. The third

00:18:14.289 --> 00:18:17.910
sister, whose, let's say, very active social

00:18:17.910 --> 00:18:21.390
life, is the source of Hyacinth's deepest, most

00:18:21.390 --> 00:18:24.970
existential embarrassment. What many casual viewers

00:18:24.970 --> 00:18:27.789
might not realize is that two different, very

00:18:27.789 --> 00:18:31.279
talented actresses actually played Rose. That's

00:18:31.279 --> 00:18:33.119
right. The role was first played in series one

00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:35.880
by Shirley Stelfox. And Stelfox had quite an

00:18:35.880 --> 00:18:38.240
interesting background herself. Notably, she

00:18:38.240 --> 00:18:40.880
played the $2 prostitute in that really powerful

00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:45.279
1984 film version of Orwell's 1984. She had a

00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:47.160
definite edge, which really suited Rose's character.

00:18:47.380 --> 00:18:50.160
But Stelfox left KUA after just the first series

00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:52.200
because she had a prior commitment to another

00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:55.339
show. The drama series making out. And the actress

00:18:55.339 --> 00:18:57.519
who replaced her. Well, she brought a pedigree

00:18:57.519 --> 00:18:59.500
that could almost rival Patricia Rowledge's.

00:18:59.599 --> 00:19:01.720
This might be the biggest theatrical bombshell

00:19:01.720 --> 00:19:03.599
in the whole show's casting. It truly is, yeah.

00:19:03.859 --> 00:19:06.079
From series two right through to the end, Rose

00:19:06.079 --> 00:19:08.420
was played by Mary Miller. And Mary Miller was

00:19:08.420 --> 00:19:10.480
a classically trained singer, a genuine opera

00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:13.119
and musical theater star. She had a really significant

00:19:13.119 --> 00:19:15.180
West End career. Okay, tell us about that West

00:19:15.180 --> 00:19:17.279
End career. What were her big roles? Well, she

00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:19.559
was basically a cornerstone of the modern West

00:19:19.559 --> 00:19:22.480
End musical. Mary Miller originated the role

00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:25.069
of Madame Jury. you know, the mysterious ballet

00:19:25.069 --> 00:19:28.390
mistress. In the original London production of

00:19:28.390 --> 00:19:30.490
Andrew Lloyd Webber's The Phantom of the Opera,

00:19:30.690 --> 00:19:33.390
she took the stage in 1986, was part of that

00:19:33.390 --> 00:19:36.289
original cast, and her voice is on the original

00:19:36.289 --> 00:19:39.029
London cast recording forever. She stayed in

00:19:39.029 --> 00:19:41.589
that role for four years, from 86 right through

00:19:41.589 --> 00:19:44.750
to 1990. So let me get this straight. We have

00:19:44.750 --> 00:19:46.990
the Tony winner Patricia Routledge and the original

00:19:46.990 --> 00:19:49.579
West End Madame Jury. Barry Millar, playing these

00:19:49.579 --> 00:19:52.519
socially awkward sisters, argue over candlesticks

00:19:52.519 --> 00:19:55.900
and men in a fairly standard BBC sitcom. That

00:19:55.900 --> 00:19:58.500
level of talent packed in there is just astounding.

00:19:58.779 --> 00:20:00.779
It is a profound concentration of excellence,

00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:03.579
isn't it? And Millar followed up Phantom by playing

00:20:03.579 --> 00:20:05.779
Mrs. Potts in the London production of Disney's

00:20:05.779 --> 00:20:07.920
Beauty and the Beast in the late 90s. The fact

00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:10.119
that the three main female leads, Routledge,

00:20:10.220 --> 00:20:12.220
Tooson, and Millar, all share this incredible

00:20:12.220 --> 00:20:15.200
background in serious stage work, musical theater,

00:20:15.299 --> 00:20:17.700
it just elevates the light farce of KUA into

00:20:17.700 --> 00:20:19.880
something really quite special. Let's turn to

00:20:19.880 --> 00:20:22.119
the other main supporting player who really defined

00:20:22.119 --> 00:20:25.220
that suburban panic, Emmett Hopsworth, played

00:20:25.220 --> 00:20:27.849
by David Griffin. He is the musician who moves

00:20:27.849 --> 00:20:30.569
in with his sister Liz, only to live in constant

00:20:30.569 --> 00:20:33.390
crippling fear of Hyacinth's terrible singing.

00:20:33.730 --> 00:20:37.970
Oh, Emmett's constant visceral panic. It's one

00:20:37.970 --> 00:20:40.250
of the show's most reliable running gags, isn't

00:20:40.250 --> 00:20:42.829
it? His catchphrase, often just communicated

00:20:42.829 --> 00:20:44.849
through terrified looks at Liz, is basically,

00:20:44.950 --> 00:20:48.650
she'll sing at me. And Hyacinth, completely oblivious

00:20:48.650 --> 00:20:51.269
to the sheer terror she inspires, interprets

00:20:51.269 --> 00:20:54.849
his fear as, well, infatuation. She's perpetually

00:20:54.849 --> 00:20:56.450
trying to get a part in one of his amateur musical

00:20:56.450 --> 00:20:59.289
productions, bursting into these wildly out -of

00:20:59.289 --> 00:21:01.509
-key, ear -splitting soprano notes whenever he's

00:21:01.509 --> 00:21:03.670
around. He literally tries to hide behind furniture

00:21:03.670 --> 00:21:06.109
to avoid her. Griffin was another familiar face,

00:21:06.210 --> 00:21:08.289
wasn't he? Pulled from that same well of BBC

00:21:08.289 --> 00:21:11.930
comedy talent. He was indeed. Before he was the

00:21:11.930 --> 00:21:14.430
tormented musician Emmett, David Griffin had

00:21:14.430 --> 00:21:16.829
made his name in that other beloved sitcom, Heidi

00:21:16.829 --> 00:21:19.829
High. Remember the holiday camp? He played squadron

00:21:19.829 --> 00:21:23.049
leader Clive Dempster, DFC, from 1984 to 1988.

00:21:23.509 --> 00:21:25.809
So again, it just highlights how good the production

00:21:25.809 --> 00:21:28.089
team was at casting actors who people already

00:21:28.089 --> 00:21:30.109
knew and loved for playing certain types of comic

00:21:30.109 --> 00:21:32.430
characters. And beyond these core roles, the

00:21:32.430 --> 00:21:34.869
supporting cast really created that whole textured

00:21:34.869 --> 00:21:38.009
world of aspiration and embarrassment that Hyacinth

00:21:38.009 --> 00:21:40.619
had to navigate. Exactly. The family dynamics

00:21:40.619 --> 00:21:42.619
are rounded out by the senile father, Daddy,

00:21:42.839 --> 00:21:45.700
played by George Webb. He's constantly exhibiting

00:21:45.700 --> 00:21:48.400
just bizarre and embarrassing behavior, you know,

00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:51.299
having WWII flashbacks or getting into awkward

00:21:51.299 --> 00:21:54.200
situations with local women. Behavior Onslow

00:21:54.200 --> 00:21:56.779
just brilliantly sums up as barmy. And then there

00:21:56.779 --> 00:21:58.720
are the relatives Hyacinth does boast about,

00:21:58.839 --> 00:22:02.650
the almost mythical Violet and Bruce. Ah yes,

00:22:02.809 --> 00:22:05.029
they are the aspirational ideal, aren't they?

00:22:05.670 --> 00:22:07.869
Hyacinth is constantly going on about Violet's

00:22:07.869 --> 00:22:10.390
Mercedes, her swimming pool, and crucially, the

00:22:10.390 --> 00:22:13.829
fact she has room for a pony. Yet even their

00:22:13.829 --> 00:22:16.329
social standing is always subtly undermined by

00:22:16.329 --> 00:22:18.890
the eccentricities of Violet's husband, Bruce.

00:22:19.250 --> 00:22:22.089
Bruce is a turf accountant, a bookie which is

00:22:22.089 --> 00:22:24.849
already slightly dodgy in Hyacinth's world, and

00:22:24.849 --> 00:22:27.190
he's a cross -dresser with a particular fondness

00:22:27.190 --> 00:22:29.369
for equestrian gear. That's the bit Hyacinth

00:22:29.369 --> 00:22:31.029
conveniently leaves out when she's boasting.

00:22:31.089 --> 00:22:33.609
The whole supporting cast just functions to either

00:22:33.609 --> 00:22:36.470
boost Hyacinth's status, like Violet's house,

00:22:36.589 --> 00:22:39.589
or completely demolish it, like Daddy, Onslow,

00:22:39.670 --> 00:22:42.099
and Rose. Now, shifting behind the camera for

00:22:42.099 --> 00:22:43.940
a moment, the sources reveal there was actually

00:22:43.940 --> 00:22:46.099
a surprising amount of tension between the man

00:22:46.099 --> 00:22:48.279
who wrote all the words and the man who had to

00:22:48.279 --> 00:22:50.359
put them on screen. Yeah, the creative friction

00:22:50.359 --> 00:22:53.380
between the writer, Roy Clark, and the producer

00:22:53.380 --> 00:22:56.420
-director, Harold Snowd. It's documented in the

00:22:56.420 --> 00:22:58.660
Comedy Connections documentary, and it's a really

00:22:58.660 --> 00:23:01.740
fascinating bit of backstage drama. Clark was

00:23:01.740 --> 00:23:04.180
famously quite detached from the actual production.

00:23:04.359 --> 00:23:07.339
He insisted on only writing. Apparently, he rarely,

00:23:07.420 --> 00:23:11.240
if ever, visited the set or went out on location

00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:13.200
shoots. That sounds like a potential nightmare

00:23:13.200 --> 00:23:15.420
for a director trying to stage scenes in real

00:23:15.420 --> 00:23:18.000
houses or, you know, out on the street. It was

00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:20.180
an immediate problem, yeah. Snowed had to be

00:23:20.180 --> 00:23:22.960
there on the ground, making scenes work within

00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:24.960
the real world constraints of the locations,

00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:27.799
the budget, the schedule. This often meant he

00:23:27.799 --> 00:23:30.619
had to make small rewrites to dialogue or adjust

00:23:30.619 --> 00:23:33.059
the staging slightly just to fit the physical

00:23:33.059 --> 00:23:35.640
reality of filming. And this process apparently

00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:39.019
absolutely infuriated Clark. He saw any change

00:23:39.019 --> 00:23:41.359
to his script, no matter how minor, as some kind

00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:43.859
of artistic violation. He felt Snowed was just

00:23:43.859 --> 00:23:46.319
being difficult. So you've got this brilliant

00:23:46.319 --> 00:23:48.700
writer who refuses to engage with the practicality.

00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:50.740
of production and a brilliant director who has

00:23:50.740 --> 00:23:53.599
to make the show work technically, how did they

00:23:53.599 --> 00:23:55.680
actually resolve that deep creative conflict?

00:23:55.980 --> 00:23:57.759
Well, eventually they had to bring in a third

00:23:57.759 --> 00:24:00.579
person, a script editor. And this person's sole

00:24:00.579 --> 00:24:03.660
job basically was to mediate. to communicate

00:24:03.660 --> 00:24:06.000
changes and opinions back and forth between the

00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:09.000
two men. This script editor effectively became

00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:11.559
a diplomat, smoothing over the practical necessity

00:24:11.559 --> 00:24:13.700
of Snowde's tweaks and then communicating them

00:24:13.700 --> 00:24:16.539
carefully back to the protective and maybe slightly

00:24:16.539 --> 00:24:19.180
sensitive Clark. It's pretty remarkable, isn't

00:24:19.180 --> 00:24:21.160
it, that one of the world's most successful and

00:24:21.160 --> 00:24:23.319
smoothly running sitcoms needed that kind of

00:24:23.319 --> 00:24:25.960
intricate managed communication just to keep

00:24:25.960 --> 00:24:28.099
the whole creative process from grinding to a

00:24:28.099 --> 00:24:32.069
halt. Hashtag TagTag5. Spin -offs, prequels,

00:24:32.069 --> 00:24:34.829
and unfulfilled potential. Okay, so the huge

00:24:34.829 --> 00:24:37.759
global success of KUA. naturally led to people

00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:39.359
wanting to revisit the characters, the whole

00:24:39.359 --> 00:24:42.059
concept. In 2016, Roy Clark came back to write

00:24:42.059 --> 00:24:44.220
that prequel, Young Hyacinth. That's right. It

00:24:44.220 --> 00:24:46.420
was a one -off special intended to show the roots

00:24:46.420 --> 00:24:49.299
of Hyacinth's social climbing. Set about 40 years

00:24:49.299 --> 00:24:51.559
before the main sitcom, sort of early post -war

00:24:51.559 --> 00:24:54.380
era, they cast Carrie Howard as the 19 -year

00:24:54.380 --> 00:24:57.160
-old Hyacinth. The idea was to show how her background

00:24:57.160 --> 00:24:59.420
bred that really intense social desperation we

00:24:59.420 --> 00:25:01.700
see later. What were the main things they established

00:25:01.700 --> 00:25:04.599
about Young Hyacinth in that prequel? Well, it

00:25:04.599 --> 00:25:06.880
basically confirmed that her strenuous efforts

00:25:06.880 --> 00:25:09.519
to manage her family, to make them seem better

00:25:09.519 --> 00:25:13.160
off than they were, started really early. She's

00:25:13.160 --> 00:25:15.119
working as a maid, and she's already trying to

00:25:15.119 --> 00:25:17.119
force her boyfriend, a Mr. William Hitchcock,

00:25:17.259 --> 00:25:20.220
to stick to her strict social rules, making him

00:25:20.220 --> 00:25:22.059
dress up formally just to walk down the street

00:25:22.059 --> 00:25:24.599
with her. And the special ends with this defining

00:25:24.599 --> 00:25:28.119
moment of social shame. Her father gets drunk

00:25:28.119 --> 00:25:31.319
and falls into the local canal. Which... Naturally,

00:25:31.380 --> 00:25:33.359
Hyacinth has to immediately spin into something

00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:36.779
else. Exactly. To save face in front of her employers

00:25:36.779 --> 00:25:39.380
and her boyfriend, she instantly makes up a story.

00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:42.500
Blames the drunken tumble on an old war injury

00:25:42.500 --> 00:25:45.359
that briefly affected her father's balance. So

00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:47.259
yeah, it successfully laid the groundwork for

00:25:47.259 --> 00:25:49.500
the character we all know. Confirmed that her

00:25:49.500 --> 00:25:51.519
attempts to build this perfect social facade

00:25:51.519 --> 00:25:54.680
were absolutely lifelong. The most tantalizing

00:25:54.680 --> 00:25:57.000
what -if nugget that the sources dug up is that

00:25:57.000 --> 00:25:59.240
uncommissioned spinoff series, Mind Your Manners.

00:25:59.830 --> 00:26:02.009
This just sounds like a stroke of genius that

00:26:02.009 --> 00:26:05.109
sadly never got made. Oh, it really does sound

00:26:05.109 --> 00:26:08.049
like a lost classic of British comedy. Roy Clark

00:26:08.049 --> 00:26:11.309
proposed Mind Your Manners right after KUA finished.

00:26:11.960 --> 00:26:14.200
And it was such a brilliant reversal of the original

00:26:14.200 --> 00:26:16.720
show's idea. Instead of focusing on Hyacinth

00:26:16.720 --> 00:26:18.859
trying to climb the social ladder, this would

00:26:18.859 --> 00:26:22.099
have been all about Onslow, Daisy, and Rose accidentally

00:26:22.099 --> 00:26:24.519
finding themselves right at the very top of it.

00:26:24.640 --> 00:26:26.980
Okay, how on earth did the bone -idle Onslow

00:26:26.980 --> 00:26:30.019
end up living in a manor house? Well, the premise

00:26:30.019 --> 00:26:33.119
was basically rooted in Onslow taking a deliberately

00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:36.480
easy part -time gardening job, just tending the

00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:39.359
grounds of this huge old manor house estate owned

00:26:39.359 --> 00:26:42.519
by a very forgetful aristocrat. old lord the

00:26:42.519 --> 00:26:44.599
basic comic setup was just idleness meets old

00:26:44.599 --> 00:26:46.559
money decay and the twist that gets the sisters

00:26:46.559 --> 00:26:49.079
involved was the lord's death right the twist

00:26:49.079 --> 00:26:54.200
was perfect the old lord dies suddenly and onslow

00:26:54.200 --> 00:26:57.180
daisy and rose and it's strongly hinted rose

00:26:57.180 --> 00:26:59.559
was having a bit of a casual fling with the deceased

00:26:59.559 --> 00:27:02.799
lord they temporarily move into the manor house

00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:04.460
they have to apparently because there's some

00:27:04.460 --> 00:27:07.420
complex legal battle over the estate with the

00:27:07.420 --> 00:27:10.400
lord's estranged incredibly snooty brother so

00:27:10.759 --> 00:27:12.500
They're meant to be caretakers, but naturally

00:27:12.500 --> 00:27:14.299
they start treating the place like it's their

00:27:14.299 --> 00:27:17.180
own. This completely flips the whole social structure.

00:27:17.319 --> 00:27:20.140
Now they are the gentry. Hyacinth's dream fulfilled,

00:27:20.420 --> 00:27:23.039
but by completely the wrong people. Precisely.

00:27:23.359 --> 00:27:25.599
The main conflict would have been the clash between

00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:28.099
the commoners living in the manor and the neighboring

00:27:28.099 --> 00:27:31.079
aristocratic family, the Hidewhites. The Hidewhites

00:27:31.079 --> 00:27:33.160
would be absolutely furious about the common

00:27:33.160 --> 00:27:36.200
riffraff moving in next door. But and here's

00:27:36.200 --> 00:27:38.460
the genius subplot that makes it really sing.

00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:40.420
It turns out Mr. Hidewhite, the really snooty

00:27:40.420 --> 00:27:42.579
neighbor, actually knew Onslow back in their

00:27:42.579 --> 00:27:45.299
less reputable youth. And Onslow has some kind

00:27:45.299 --> 00:27:47.490
of hold over the aristocrats. Total leverage.

00:27:47.809 --> 00:27:50.930
It's revealed that Mr. Hidewhite owes Onslow

00:27:50.930 --> 00:27:54.109
big time. Because years ago, Onslow took the

00:27:54.109 --> 00:27:57.230
fall for some crime the young Mr. Hidewhite committed.

00:27:57.569 --> 00:28:00.150
It stopped Hidewhite getting arrested, potentially

00:28:00.150 --> 00:28:02.829
ruining his entire aristocratic future. So now

00:28:02.829 --> 00:28:05.789
the snooty neighbor has to defer to Onslow because

00:28:05.789 --> 00:28:09.289
Onslow holds the secret to his past shame. It

00:28:09.289 --> 00:28:12.029
creates this massive comic conflict where the

00:28:12.029 --> 00:28:14.250
man obsessed with social standing is completely

00:28:14.250 --> 00:28:16.539
controlled by the man who basically invented

00:28:16.539 --> 00:28:19.059
apathy. And they'd even approached an actress

00:28:19.059 --> 00:28:21.680
for a key role in this lost classic. They had.

00:28:21.880 --> 00:28:24.079
Sue Pollard, famous from Heidi High, same show

00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:26.440
David Griffin was in, she was approached to play

00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:29.440
Ms. Dorothy Dottie Henshaw. She'd be the eccentric,

00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:32.420
easily flustered, but very loyal cook and housekeeper

00:28:32.420 --> 00:28:35.079
who stays on at the estate despite the new, rather

00:28:35.079 --> 00:28:37.519
common, residence. Apparently some preliminary

00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:39.880
location scouting and maybe even some test shooting

00:28:39.880 --> 00:28:42.759
was done. But sadly, the project never got the

00:28:42.759 --> 00:28:45.519
official green light for a full series. It really

00:28:45.519 --> 00:28:47.759
stands as one of the great what -ifs of British

00:28:47.759 --> 00:28:50.960
comedy history. Beyond the screen itself, KUA

00:28:50.960 --> 00:28:53.740
generated a huge amount of merchandise and some

00:28:53.740 --> 00:28:55.819
really unique commercial crossovers too, didn't

00:28:55.819 --> 00:28:58.039
it? Just shows how popular it was. Oh, the commercial

00:28:58.039 --> 00:29:01.180
reach was vast. You had bizarre specials like

00:29:01.180 --> 00:29:03.700
that sketch Mr. Blobby meets Hyacinth Bucket

00:29:03.700 --> 00:29:07.450
in 1993. Which is exactly as weird as it sounds.

00:29:07.609 --> 00:29:10.329
And both Patricia Routledge and Josephine Toussaint

00:29:10.329 --> 00:29:12.950
actually reprised their roles as Hyacinth and

00:29:12.950 --> 00:29:15.529
Elizabeth for the Second Chance shorts, which

00:29:15.529 --> 00:29:18.349
was a commercial campaign for a charity. They

00:29:18.349 --> 00:29:20.230
even had to adapt the audio releases specifically

00:29:20.230 --> 00:29:22.589
because the visual comedy was so important. That's

00:29:22.589 --> 00:29:24.410
right. It shows how crucial the visual gags were.

00:29:24.769 --> 00:29:26.930
For the audio cassette releases, Clive Swift

00:29:26.930 --> 00:29:29.150
actually recorded a special narrative track.

00:29:29.680 --> 00:29:31.960
He was basically reprising his role as Richard,

00:29:32.140 --> 00:29:34.440
providing spoken context to fill in the gaps

00:29:34.440 --> 00:29:36.900
for the listener, making sure the physical comedy,

00:29:37.079 --> 00:29:39.940
the sight gags, still landed even when you couldn't

00:29:39.940 --> 00:29:42.140
see them. And of course, there were the books.

00:29:42.279 --> 00:29:44.119
There was that lighthearted etiquette guide,

00:29:44.259 --> 00:29:46.359
Hyacinth Bucket's Book of Etiquette for the Socially

00:29:46.359 --> 00:29:49.460
Less Fortunate. And the director, Harold Snowd,

00:29:49.460 --> 00:29:51.660
he wrote his memoir, too, called It's Bouquet,

00:29:51.839 --> 00:29:54.259
Not Bucket. So we've covered a huge amount of

00:29:54.259 --> 00:29:56.660
ground in this deep dive. If we sort of zoom

00:29:56.660 --> 00:29:59.670
out now. The main takeaway has got to be that

00:29:59.670 --> 00:30:02.730
powerful, almost contradictory relationship between

00:30:02.730 --> 00:30:06.309
genuine artistic pedigree and massive mainstream

00:30:06.309 --> 00:30:09.450
comedic appeal. It's the sheer, almost unnecessary

00:30:09.450 --> 00:30:11.630
depth of the cast that makes the show such a

00:30:11.630 --> 00:30:14.650
masterpiece, isn't it? We learned the woman playing

00:30:14.650 --> 00:30:17.630
Mrs. Bouquet had a Tony Award, an Olivier Award,

00:30:17.869 --> 00:30:20.690
a profound classical stage career behind her.

00:30:20.990 --> 00:30:23.750
Her husband, Richard, was an RSC veteran and

00:30:23.750 --> 00:30:27.210
a staple of serious BBC horror dramas. And the

00:30:27.210 --> 00:30:29.990
woman playing the man -eating sister, Rose, she

00:30:29.990 --> 00:30:32.109
was the original Madame Jury in Phantom of the

00:30:32.109 --> 00:30:34.309
Opera. These weren't actors who were, like, reaching

00:30:34.309 --> 00:30:47.730
the peak of their careers in a BBC sitcom. And

00:30:47.730 --> 00:30:51.190
that foundation in high drama is exactly why

00:30:51.190 --> 00:30:53.930
the comedy works so well. It took that highest

00:30:53.930 --> 00:30:56.690
level of performance skill, that vocal control.

00:30:56.710 --> 00:30:58.710
Remember Routledge's mezzo -soprano training

00:30:58.710 --> 00:31:02.410
to convincingly portray Hyacinth's desperate...

00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:05.000
fragile and ultimately quite common attempts

00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:08.180
to simply keep up appearances. They were masters

00:31:08.180 --> 00:31:10.720
playing people who desperately wanted to be seen

00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:13.700
as masters themselves. That meticulous portrayal

00:31:13.700 --> 00:31:16.200
of social aspiration. That's why the show travels

00:31:16.200 --> 00:31:18.660
so well globally. And that profound contradiction

00:31:18.660 --> 00:31:20.940
brings us nicely to our final provocative thought

00:31:20.940 --> 00:31:23.660
for you, the listener, to maybe mull over. What

00:31:23.660 --> 00:31:25.000
does it tell us about the whole relationship

00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:27.539
between artistry and mass success that a world

00:31:27.539 --> 00:31:30.380
traveler, a celebrated dramatic and musical actress

00:31:30.380 --> 00:31:33.279
like Patricia Routledge, made the conscious choice

00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:35.559
to end her time on this wildly popular show?

00:31:35.640 --> 00:31:37.400
Not because it was failing, not because of poor

00:31:37.400 --> 00:31:40.099
ratings, but precisely because the role's overwhelming

00:31:40.099 --> 00:31:42.539
success threatened to completely define her entire

00:31:42.539 --> 00:31:45.759
legacy. It really speaks to the terrifying power

00:31:45.759 --> 00:31:48.680
of a truly iconic character, doesn't it? Hyacinth

00:31:48.680 --> 00:31:51.519
Bucket became so potent, so globally inescapable,

00:31:51.619 --> 00:31:53.640
that the woman who brought her to life felt she

00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:55.539
had to walk away while the show was still at

00:31:55.539 --> 00:31:58.579
its absolute peak. She recognized that the brilliant

00:31:58.579 --> 00:32:00.859
comedy archetype might permanently overshadow

00:32:00.859 --> 00:32:02.960
Dame Catherine Patricia Routledge, the Tony Award

00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:05.819
winner. It's a fascinating tension, that pull

00:32:05.819 --> 00:32:08.119
between legacy and popularity, and maybe it's

00:32:08.119 --> 00:32:10.539
a reminder that sometimes leaving a stage early,

00:32:10.680 --> 00:32:12.279
well, that's the greatest dramatic choice of

00:32:12.279 --> 00:32:12.440
all.
