WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.339 Welcome back to the Deep Dive. Today we're tackling 00:00:03.339 --> 00:00:07.320 a giant, really. So Ian Murray McKellen. We're 00:00:07.320 --> 00:00:10.099 aiming to get beyond just, you know, Gandalf 00:00:10.099 --> 00:00:12.720 and Magneto, important as they are, and really 00:00:12.720 --> 00:00:14.779 look at the whole picture, the British cultural 00:00:14.779 --> 00:00:18.160 icon. It's quite a task because those huge roles, 00:00:18.280 --> 00:00:20.539 Gandalf, Magneto, they brought him global fame. 00:00:20.600 --> 00:00:24.100 Absolutely. But they're relatively recent, really, 00:00:24.219 --> 00:00:26.859 in the grand scheme of a six decade career. Right. 00:00:27.210 --> 00:00:29.489 A career that started, you know, very traditionally 00:00:29.489 --> 00:00:32.409 in British rep theater. Yeah. Mastering Shakespeare. 00:00:32.609 --> 00:00:35.170 So we're looking at the artistry, but also the 00:00:35.170 --> 00:00:38.009 activism. Exactly. They're intertwined. His life 00:00:38.009 --> 00:00:41.810 is this incredible blend of serious stage work. 00:00:42.090 --> 00:00:44.890 blockbuster fame and this really fierce personal 00:00:44.890 --> 00:00:47.810 activism. Okay. So our sources give us a pretty 00:00:47.810 --> 00:00:49.990 detailed map, his career phases, personal life, 00:00:50.009 --> 00:00:52.530 that activism. And our mission here is to give 00:00:52.530 --> 00:00:54.909 you, the listener, a solid, quick understanding 00:00:54.909 --> 00:00:57.350 of how this man went from, well, Lancashire in 00:00:57.350 --> 00:00:59.869 the north of England to commanding world stages, 00:01:00.070 --> 00:01:02.270 starring in massive films, and then using that 00:01:02.270 --> 00:01:04.530 fame to become, you know, a knighted co -founder 00:01:04.530 --> 00:01:06.870 of Stonewall. It's quite the journey. It really 00:01:06.870 --> 00:01:10.049 is an unprecedented path. That mix of sort of 00:01:10.049 --> 00:01:13.519 hired gravity. and just massive popular appeal. 00:01:13.719 --> 00:01:16.280 And the key thing, I think, is how he used that 00:01:16.280 --> 00:01:19.239 visibility, that blockbuster fame, to push forward 00:01:19.239 --> 00:01:22.700 his work in the real world. So let's unpack it. 00:01:22.799 --> 00:01:24.700 Okay, let's start at the very beginning. Burnley, 00:01:24.719 --> 00:01:28.540 Lancashire, May 1939. So literally born just 00:01:28.540 --> 00:01:30.799 before World War II kicked off. Right on the 00:01:30.799 --> 00:01:33.280 cusp. And the family moved around a bit, Wiggin, 00:01:33.400 --> 00:01:36.579 then Bolton. That early experience, that wartime 00:01:36.579 --> 00:01:38.700 childhood, it really shaped him. you can see 00:01:38.700 --> 00:01:41.180 how it would build resilience. Definitely. The 00:01:41.180 --> 00:01:43.200 sources often point to it when explaining his 00:01:43.200 --> 00:01:46.219 calmness later. There's that amazing story after 00:01:46.219 --> 00:01:48.819 9 -11, someone asked why he seemed so sort of 00:01:48.819 --> 00:01:51.659 together about it all. And his answer was, Well, 00:01:51.680 --> 00:01:53.599 darling, you forget. I slept under a steel plate 00:01:53.599 --> 00:01:55.879 until I was four years old. Just puts it all 00:01:55.879 --> 00:01:58.079 in perspective, doesn't it? That constant state 00:01:58.079 --> 00:02:00.920 of alert almost became his normal. Wow, that 00:02:00.920 --> 00:02:03.859 says so much. In his home life, his father was 00:02:03.859 --> 00:02:07.510 a civil engineer. And a lay preacher. So a strong 00:02:07.510 --> 00:02:10.750 Christian background, but described as non -Orthodox. 00:02:11.090 --> 00:02:13.270 But here's a fascinating detail from the sources 00:02:13.270 --> 00:02:16.629 connects to his later activism. Oh. His great 00:02:16.629 --> 00:02:19.229 -great -grandfather, Robert J. Lowe's. He was 00:02:19.229 --> 00:02:21.289 a campaigner back in Manchester. Campaigning 00:02:21.289 --> 00:02:24.370 for what? For the Saturday half holiday, which, 00:02:24.430 --> 00:02:26.770 you know, sounds small now, but it makes him, 00:02:26.789 --> 00:02:29.669 as one source puts it, a grandfather of the modern 00:02:29.669 --> 00:02:32.250 weekend. No way. So that instinct for social 00:02:32.250 --> 00:02:34.129 campaigning, it's in the family history. Way 00:02:34.129 --> 00:02:37.810 back. Over a century before Stonewall, that drive 00:02:37.810 --> 00:02:40.050 to, you know, fight for something bigger, it 00:02:40.050 --> 00:02:42.650 seems embedded. That makes sense. And the theater. 00:02:42.789 --> 00:02:45.550 When did that start? Oh, very early. His parents 00:02:45.550 --> 00:02:47.389 took him to see Peter Pan when he was just three. 00:02:47.490 --> 00:02:49.629 And he got one of those Pollux toy theaters, 00:02:49.830 --> 00:02:52.990 a foldaway Victorian stage. So the seed was planted 00:02:52.990 --> 00:02:55.710 young. And his older sister, Jean, really nurtured 00:02:55.710 --> 00:02:58.030 it. Took him to amateur Shakespeare, Twelfth 00:02:58.030 --> 00:03:00.750 Night, Macbeth. She saw something there. And 00:03:00.750 --> 00:03:02.849 that led to Cambridge. Yep. Won a scholarship 00:03:02.849 --> 00:03:06.800 in 1958. St. Catherine's College, reading English 00:03:06.800 --> 00:03:09.259 literature. He's an honorary fellow there now, 00:03:09.360 --> 00:03:11.520 actually. But the real action was the Marlowe 00:03:11.520 --> 00:03:13.800 Society. Right, absolutely. That was his training 00:03:13.800 --> 00:03:16.620 ground. The sources say he did, get this, 23 00:03:16.620 --> 00:03:20.500 plays in three years. 23! That's intense. Totally. 00:03:20.580 --> 00:03:22.599 And he was being directed by future legends, 00:03:22.740 --> 00:03:25.139 Peter Hall, Trevor Nunn. They were all there. 00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:27.960 So when he graduated, he was already plugged 00:03:27.960 --> 00:03:30.680 into the professional theater world. So the transition 00:03:30.680 --> 00:03:33.710 was smooth. Pretty much immediate. Professional 00:03:33.710 --> 00:03:37.789 debut in 61, Belgrade Theater in Coventry, a 00:03:37.789 --> 00:03:40.349 man for all signals, that his first West End 00:03:40.349 --> 00:03:44.050 show in 65, Ascent of Flowers, and he joined 00:03:44.050 --> 00:03:46.050 Laurence Olivier's National Theater Company not 00:03:46.050 --> 00:03:48.569 long after. Pretty prestigious start. But the 00:03:48.569 --> 00:03:50.990 real breakthrough, the moment that signaled maybe 00:03:50.990 --> 00:03:55.310 his willingness to provoke, came in 1969, Prospect 00:03:55.310 --> 00:03:57.629 Theater Company. He played the leads in Richard 00:03:57.629 --> 00:04:00.430 II and Marlowe's Edward II. Okay, Edward II, 00:04:00.490 --> 00:04:03.300 that caused a stir, didn't it? It did. The play 00:04:03.300 --> 00:04:05.939 itself deals with a homosexual king's downfall. 00:04:06.159 --> 00:04:08.340 And this production, well, it didn't shy away 00:04:08.340 --> 00:04:10.439 from it. The sources talk about the controversy 00:04:10.439 --> 00:04:12.960 around the lurid death scene. Why was that so 00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:15.479 controversial back then? Well, portraying a historical 00:04:15.479 --> 00:04:18.000 gay figure with that level of dramatic weight 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:20.800 and explicitly showing the brutality of his death 00:04:20.800 --> 00:04:23.480 linked to his sexuality and the intolerance around 00:04:23.480 --> 00:04:28.040 him, it was pretty radical for 69. So even then, 00:04:28.040 --> 00:04:30.920 he was using the stage to challenge things. Seems 00:04:30.920 --> 00:04:33.759 like it. highlighting intolerance, pushing boundaries. 00:04:33.959 --> 00:04:36.480 It kind of foreshadows his later activism, wouldn't 00:04:36.480 --> 00:04:39.720 you say? Definitely. Okay, so the 1970s, he becomes 00:04:39.720 --> 00:04:42.399 a real pillar of the British stage. Absolutely. 00:04:42.540 --> 00:04:45.660 He's basically commuting between the Royal Shakespeare 00:04:45.660 --> 00:04:49.180 Company, the RSC, and the Royal National Theatre, 00:04:49.319 --> 00:04:51.740 just dominating. This is where he really honed 00:04:51.740 --> 00:04:53.699 that incredible technique. And tackling the big 00:04:53.699 --> 00:04:56.740 roles. Oh, yeah. Romeo in 76, Leontes in The 00:04:56.740 --> 00:04:59.910 Winter's Tale in 77. And those legendary Trevor 00:04:59.910 --> 00:05:02.110 Nunn productions with Judi Dench -McBeth and 00:05:02.110 --> 00:05:04.930 Othello where he played Iago. Critically acclaimed, 00:05:04.930 --> 00:05:07.230 award -winning stuff. And the awards did start 00:05:07.230 --> 00:05:10.129 coming thick and fast in the UK. The Olivier's. 00:05:10.230 --> 00:05:12.170 He started racking them up. Pillars of the Community, 00:05:12.350 --> 00:05:15.149 77. The Alchemist, 78. But then came the big 00:05:15.149 --> 00:05:18.649 leap across the pond, Broadway. Exactly. 1980. 00:05:19.230 --> 00:05:22.069 Peter Shafter's play. McKellen took on Salieri, 00:05:22.290 --> 00:05:24.990 the jealous composer obsessed with Mozart. And 00:05:24.990 --> 00:05:27.290 Tim Curry played Mozart. Yep. Tim Curry is Mozart. 00:05:27.529 --> 00:05:30.209 Jane Seymour was in it too. And McKellen Salieri, 00:05:30.370 --> 00:05:33.189 it just blew people away. Elevated him from, 00:05:33.269 --> 00:05:36.649 you know, respected British actor to genuine 00:05:36.649 --> 00:05:38.970 international star. The critics loved it. Frank 00:05:38.970 --> 00:05:41.790 Rich at the New York Times. Rich nailed it. He 00:05:41.790 --> 00:05:44.350 said McKellen showed Salieri's descent into madness 00:05:44.350 --> 00:05:47.790 in dark notes of almost bone -rattling terror. 00:05:48.029 --> 00:05:50.449 It wasn't just playing envy. It was like existential 00:05:50.449 --> 00:05:53.430 collapse. And that performance won him the Tony. 00:05:53.589 --> 00:05:57.379 Best Actor in a Play, 1981. That Tony win cemented 00:05:57.379 --> 00:06:00.399 his status over there, gave him real clout, transatlantic 00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:02.240 clout. But he didn't just stay in the U .S., 00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:04.360 did he? He kept working back in the U .K., picking 00:06:04.360 --> 00:06:06.920 up more Olivier's. Right. He won for Bent in 00:06:06.920 --> 00:06:09.620 1979, which is significant. Why Bent specifically? 00:06:10.040 --> 00:06:11.600 Because it dealt with the Nazi persecution of 00:06:11.600 --> 00:06:13.839 gay men. So even before he came out publicly, 00:06:13.980 --> 00:06:16.620 he was choosing roles that explored queer history, 00:06:16.759 --> 00:06:19.079 queer suffering. It was a form of advocacy through 00:06:19.079 --> 00:06:21.180 his work even then. Interesting. And he won for 00:06:21.180 --> 00:06:23.870 Wild Honey, too. Check off. He did. He took Wild 00:06:23.870 --> 00:06:26.089 Honey to Broadway in 86, but that one had a bit 00:06:26.089 --> 00:06:30.889 of a mixed reception, actually. Oh, how so? Well, 00:06:31.089 --> 00:06:34.430 critics like Frank Rich, again, praised McKellen 00:06:34.430 --> 00:06:37.550 himself, his bravura and athletically graceful 00:06:37.550 --> 00:06:40.009 technique, but felt the rest of the cast couldn't 00:06:40.009 --> 00:06:42.589 quite keep up. So his own brilliance almost highlighted 00:06:42.589 --> 00:06:45.509 weaknesses elsewhere. Kind of. It showed how 00:06:45.509 --> 00:06:47.550 commanding his presence was. If the production 00:06:47.550 --> 00:06:50.009 wasn't uniformly strong, you noticed it. A testament 00:06:50.009 --> 00:06:52.220 to his power. in a way. And then he returned 00:06:52.220 --> 00:06:54.459 to Shakespearean villainy with Richard III. Oh, 00:06:54.480 --> 00:06:58.439 that 1992 stage production was immense. Toured 00:06:58.439 --> 00:07:01.740 everywhere, won him another Olivier. And people 00:07:01.740 --> 00:07:04.939 loved his take on Richard, that sort of sly conspiratorial 00:07:04.939 --> 00:07:06.819 connection he made with the audience. You were 00:07:06.819 --> 00:07:09.399 in on the joke almost. And that particular approach 00:07:09.399 --> 00:07:12.160 to villainy, that self -aware quality. That set 00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:15.540 the stage perfectly for his next big move, translating 00:07:15.540 --> 00:07:18.360 that same energy, that same character onto the 00:07:18.360 --> 00:07:20.949 big screen. Which brings us to a major turning 00:07:20.949 --> 00:07:23.230 point. Right, the leap to screen stardom. It 00:07:23.230 --> 00:07:24.870 wasn't overnight, though, was it? His first film 00:07:24.870 --> 00:07:27.910 was way back in 69. Yeah, a touch of love. His 00:07:27.910 --> 00:07:30.970 first lead film role wasn't until 1980, playing 00:07:30.970 --> 00:07:33.329 D .H. Lawrence in Priest of Love. For a long 00:07:33.329 --> 00:07:35.449 time, he was more of a supporting player in films. 00:07:35.769 --> 00:07:38.589 Exactly. Respected, always good. Yeah. You know, 00:07:38.629 --> 00:07:41.410 popping up in films like Plenty with Meryl Streep 00:07:41.410 --> 00:07:44.069 or smaller parts in things like Last Action Hero, 00:07:44.189 --> 00:07:47.769 The Shadow in the early 90s. Solid work. but 00:07:47.769 --> 00:07:50.910 not career -defining like his stage roles. Until 00:07:50.910 --> 00:07:54.509 the 1995 Richard III, that felt different. Completely 00:07:54.509 --> 00:07:57.009 different. Because he wasn't just starring. He 00:07:57.009 --> 00:07:58.730 co -wrote the screenplay. He was an executive 00:07:58.730 --> 00:08:01.810 producer. He took control. And the setting fascist 00:08:01.810 --> 00:08:05.170 1930s Britain, that was his idea. Yes. Transplanting 00:08:05.170 --> 00:08:07.250 it like that was a bold move. It showed he was 00:08:07.250 --> 00:08:09.810 bringing that high -concept, RSE -style thinking 00:08:09.810 --> 00:08:13.589 to cinema. And his commitment was total. How 00:08:13.589 --> 00:08:16.029 so? As executive producer, when they ran short 00:08:16.029 --> 00:08:18.389 of money for the final battle scene, he returned 00:08:18.389 --> 00:08:20.910 his own 50 ,000 pound acting fee to make sure 00:08:20.910 --> 00:08:23.310 it got filmed properly. Wow. He literally put 00:08:23.310 --> 00:08:25.230 his money where his mouth was. Absolutely. It 00:08:25.230 --> 00:08:27.490 showed how invested he was in that specific vision. 00:08:27.689 --> 00:08:30.350 And critics really responded to that intelligence, 00:08:30.490 --> 00:08:32.889 that ambition. Hal Henson called it lethally 00:08:32.889 --> 00:08:36.149 flamboyant. And Roger Ebert praised how it captured 00:08:36.149 --> 00:08:38.490 Richard's self -awareness, calling him one of 00:08:38.490 --> 00:08:40.889 theater's first... truly self -aware characters. 00:08:41.169 --> 00:08:43.850 It got BAFTA and Golden Globe nominations, won 00:08:43.850 --> 00:08:47.230 a European Film Award. It worked. And that success 00:08:47.230 --> 00:08:50.450 opened doors to more dramatic screen roles. It 00:08:50.450 --> 00:08:53.250 definitely paved the way. Late 90s, he did some 00:08:53.250 --> 00:08:55.789 really meaty, complex stuff. The Chilling Nazi 00:08:55.789 --> 00:08:58.490 Officer and Apt Pupil. Briden Singer directed 00:08:58.490 --> 00:09:00.190 that, right? Yeah, based on the Stephen King 00:09:00.190 --> 00:09:02.230 story. And then the big one, playing the film 00:09:02.230 --> 00:09:04.919 director, James Whale. in Gods and Monsters, 00:09:04.980 --> 00:09:08.100 also 1998. Bill Condon directed that. And Gods 00:09:08.100 --> 00:09:10.419 and Monsters got him his first Oscar nomination. 00:09:10.860 --> 00:09:14.559 Best actor, finally. After nearly 40 years as 00:09:14.559 --> 00:09:17.259 a professional actor, it was a complex, vulnerable, 00:09:17.519 --> 00:09:19.480 brilliant performance. So he's playing Nazis, 00:09:19.500 --> 00:09:22.100 aging gay directors, showing incredible range. 00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:24.639 Exactly. He proved he could deliver that Hollywood 00:09:24.639 --> 00:09:27.700 prestige drama. But just as he gets that recognition, 00:09:28.059 --> 00:09:30.759 he pivots again, radically, toward the blockbuster. 00:09:30.919 --> 00:09:34.399 Enter the X -Men, 2000. Magneto. Back with Bryan 00:09:34.399 --> 00:09:36.659 Singer. And this leads to that great Patrick 00:09:36.659 --> 00:09:38.700 Stewart story. Ah, yes. The Star Trek advice. 00:09:39.100 --> 00:09:42.100 It's classic. Stewart gets offered Captain Picard 00:09:42.100 --> 00:09:45.500 in Star Trek The Next Generation. McKellen, the 00:09:45.500 --> 00:09:47.860 serious theater guy, apparently told him, don't 00:09:47.860 --> 00:09:51.299 do it. It'll ruin your career. He must have loved 00:09:51.299 --> 00:09:53.759 reminding him of that later. Oh, I'm sure. McKellen 00:09:53.759 --> 00:09:55.899 admitted Stewart was smart to take it. And then 00:09:55.899 --> 00:09:58.600 what does he do? He joins the superhero franchise 00:09:58.600 --> 00:10:01.620 himself as Magneto. It shows a shift in thinking, 00:10:01.700 --> 00:10:04.620 though, maybe realizing the power of those franchises. 00:10:04.799 --> 00:10:07.759 I think so. A strategic move. If you can reach 00:10:07.759 --> 00:10:11.399 that massive audience, why not? And use the platform 00:10:11.399 --> 00:10:13.500 it gives you. Which became even bigger when he 00:10:13.500 --> 00:10:16.080 took on Gandalf. Exponentially bigger. While 00:10:16.080 --> 00:10:18.039 he was still filming X -Men, he got cast in The 00:10:18.039 --> 00:10:21.200 Lord of the Rings. First trilogy from 2001, then 00:10:21.200 --> 00:10:23.659 The Hobbit films later. Gandalf basically made 00:10:23.659 --> 00:10:25.940 him immortal. And brought more awards recognition. 00:10:26.279 --> 00:10:28.500 Another Oscar nomination. Supporting actor for 00:10:28.500 --> 00:10:30.320 Fellowship of the Ring. Won the Screen Actors 00:10:30.320 --> 00:10:33.159 Guild Award, too. But beyond the awards, it was 00:10:33.159 --> 00:10:35.700 the experience, the bond with the cast. The tattoo. 00:10:35.919 --> 00:10:38.299 The Elvish Nine tattoo. Almost all fellowship 00:10:38.299 --> 00:10:41.820 actors got one, symbolizing their group. McKellen, 00:10:41.960 --> 00:10:44.700 Elijah Wood, Viggo Mortensen, Orlando Bloom. 00:10:44.879 --> 00:10:48.519 Didn't John Rhys -Davies pass on it? Gimli? He 00:10:48.519 --> 00:10:52.200 did, but his stunt double got it instead, which 00:10:52.200 --> 00:10:54.419 is kind of perfect. It just shows what a unique, 00:10:54.539 --> 00:10:56.500 tight -knit experience that filming must have 00:10:56.500 --> 00:10:59.120 been. So post Middle Earth, he didn't slow down. 00:10:59.159 --> 00:11:01.899 He kept mixing it up. The Da Vinci Code in 2006. 00:11:02.360 --> 00:11:04.700 Yep. And that led to one of his most talked about 00:11:04.700 --> 00:11:06.700 interviews, didn't it? Where he questioned the 00:11:06.700 --> 00:11:09.539 Bible. Right. Suggesting it needed a this is 00:11:09.539 --> 00:11:11.940 fiction disclaimer. Yeah. He said, I mean, walking 00:11:11.940 --> 00:11:15.450 on water, it takes an act of faith. He was basically 00:11:15.450 --> 00:11:17.610 using his huge platform to challenge religious 00:11:17.610 --> 00:11:20.149 literalism. Quite a bold move for someone with 00:11:20.149 --> 00:11:22.389 his profile. And he did comedy, too. Extras with 00:11:22.389 --> 00:11:25.409 Ricky Gervais. Hilarious. Playing an exaggerated 00:11:25.409 --> 00:11:27.750 version of himself directing Gervais' character. 00:11:27.990 --> 00:11:30.370 Got an Emmy nomination for it. Showed he didn't 00:11:30.370 --> 00:11:32.549 take himself too seriously. Plus, more stage 00:11:32.549 --> 00:11:34.549 work with Patrick Stewart. Oh, yeah. Their double 00:11:34.549 --> 00:11:37.669 acts became legendary. Waiting for Gutto, Pinters, 00:11:37.889 --> 00:11:40.789 No Man's Land. Sold out everywhere. UK, Broadway. 00:11:41.330 --> 00:11:44.049 Their chemistry was just undeniable. And more 00:11:44.049 --> 00:11:46.480 s***. serious film drama, Mr. Holmes. Brilliant 00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:49.840 film. 2015, playing Sherlock in his final years. 00:11:50.259 --> 00:11:53.080 Directed by Bill Condon again. But then, total 00:11:53.080 --> 00:11:56.120 shift. He's voicing Cogsworth the Clock in Disney's 00:11:56.120 --> 00:11:58.179 live action Beauty and the Beast. Which was massive. 00:11:58.419 --> 00:12:00.340 Huge hit. Showed he could do the blockbuster 00:12:00.340 --> 00:12:03.899 musical thing too. And then The Good Liar with 00:12:03.899 --> 00:12:07.279 Helen Mirren. Also Bill Condon. It's fascinating 00:12:07.279 --> 00:12:09.740 how he balanced the heavy drama with lighter 00:12:09.740 --> 00:12:12.559 fare. Like the sitcom Vicious of Derek Jacoby. 00:12:12.860 --> 00:12:15.419 playing an elderly gay couple, Freddie and Stuart, 00:12:15.559 --> 00:12:18.299 together 50 years. That was unexpected. A multi 00:12:18.299 --> 00:12:20.779 -cam sitcom late in his career. But important 00:12:20.779 --> 00:12:23.919 for representation. Hugely. It normalized long 00:12:23.919 --> 00:12:26.059 -term gay relationships in a very mainstream 00:12:26.059 --> 00:12:28.720 format. Apparently the original title was Vicious 00:12:28.720 --> 00:12:31.559 Old Queens, which caused a stir, but the show 00:12:31.559 --> 00:12:33.620 itself was quite groundbreaking in its own way, 00:12:33.700 --> 00:12:35.720 and critics noted how their classical timing 00:12:35.720 --> 00:12:37.779 just worked perfectly for sitcom rhythm. And 00:12:37.779 --> 00:12:39.779 his commitment to the stage is still there, even 00:12:39.779 --> 00:12:42.440 recently, playing Falstaff in Player Kings. Incredible. 00:12:42.480 --> 00:12:45.039 At 84, tackling Falstaff, he was getting rave 00:12:45.039 --> 00:12:47.240 reviews in London. Then came that fall. Yeah, 00:12:47.299 --> 00:12:50.279 June 2024. Fell off the stage during a performance. 00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:52.480 Must have been scary. Shocking for everyone there. 00:12:52.899 --> 00:12:55.399 He had to pull out of the rest of the run, understandably. 00:12:55.789 --> 00:12:58.169 But reports came out quickly saying he was OK 00:12:58.169 --> 00:13:01.350 in good spirits. Shows his resilience. And he's 00:13:01.350 --> 00:13:03.690 already got his next gig lined up. Yep. Reprising 00:13:03.690 --> 00:13:07.049 Magneto in Avengers. Doomsday scheduled for 2026. 00:13:07.309 --> 00:13:09.950 So at 86, 87, he'll be back in the Marvel Universe. 00:13:10.250 --> 00:13:12.190 Shakespeare one minute, supervillains the next. 00:13:12.450 --> 00:13:14.970 Just amazing. OK, let's shift focus slightly 00:13:14.970 --> 00:13:18.610 to the activism. It's impossible to separate 00:13:18.610 --> 00:13:20.950 it from the performer, isn't it? Completely impossible. 00:13:21.429 --> 00:13:23.529 To understand McKellen, you have to understand 00:13:23.529 --> 00:13:27.320 his fight for LGBT rights. But maybe first, a 00:13:27.320 --> 00:13:29.600 little context on his personal life before he 00:13:29.600 --> 00:13:31.659 came out publicly. He had long -term partners. 00:13:31.960 --> 00:13:34.159 Two main ones mentioned in the sources, Brian 00:13:34.159 --> 00:13:37.720 Taylor, a history teacher from 1964 -72, then 00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:40.899 the director, Sean Mathias, from 1978 -88. And 00:13:40.899 --> 00:13:43.120 the relationship with Mathias was described as 00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:45.879 difficult. Yeah, tempestuous is the word used. 00:13:46.120 --> 00:13:49.100 Apparently, career pressures played a part. McKellen's 00:13:49.100 --> 00:13:51.740 star was rising very fast. But significantly, 00:13:52.120 --> 00:13:53.799 they stayed friends and worked together later. 00:13:54.120 --> 00:13:56.440 Matthias directed him in Waiting for Godot with 00:13:56.440 --> 00:13:58.799 Stuart, right? Exactly. Shows a certain maturity, 00:13:59.139 --> 00:14:01.559 a professional respect that endured. And just 00:14:01.559 --> 00:14:04.080 for context, he's also an atheist and has been 00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:06.539 pesetarian since the late 80s. Right. So the 00:14:06.539 --> 00:14:10.419 big moment, coming out publicly in 1988. On BBC 00:14:10.419 --> 00:14:13.600 Radio, on a program called Third Ear. But this 00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:16.059 wasn't just a personal announcement. It was absolutely 00:14:16.059 --> 00:14:19.590 a political act. Triggered by Section 28. Precisely. 00:14:19.590 --> 00:14:22.470 The government introduced Section 28 of the Local 00:14:22.470 --> 00:14:25.289 Government Act, which basically banned local 00:14:25.289 --> 00:14:28.330 authorities from promoting homosexuality. What 00:14:28.330 --> 00:14:30.409 did that mean in practice? It meant schools, 00:14:30.830 --> 00:14:33.389 libraries, public services couldn't acknowledge 00:14:33.389 --> 00:14:36.539 gay relationships as valid or normal. It effectively 00:14:36.539 --> 00:14:39.320 silenced discussion, denied support to young 00:14:39.320 --> 00:14:42.159 gay people. It was designed to push gay lives 00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:44.799 back into the shadows, reinforce shame. And McKellen 00:14:44.799 --> 00:14:47.460 saw the danger immediately. He knew he couldn't 00:14:47.460 --> 00:14:49.620 fight a law demanding invisibility while remaining 00:14:49.620 --> 00:14:52.779 invisible himself. He later said, and it's a 00:14:52.779 --> 00:15:04.539 powerful quote, Which led to co -founding Stonewall. 00:15:04.759 --> 00:15:08.700 Yes. The UK LGBT rights group, named after the 00:15:08.700 --> 00:15:11.440 Stonewall Ryans. And he instantly started using 00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:14.259 his profile to challenge the establishment. Which 00:15:14.259 --> 00:15:16.240 brings us to the Michael Howard story. Oh, the 00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:19.799 legendary story. Yeah. 1988, Howard was environment 00:15:19.799 --> 00:15:23.500 secretary responsible for the act. McKellen lobbies 00:15:23.500 --> 00:15:26.299 him hard against Section 28. Howard won't budge. 00:15:26.340 --> 00:15:29.159 But then... Then Howard asks for an autograph. 00:15:29.580 --> 00:15:32.600 For his kids. McKellen agrees, takes the paper, 00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:35.480 and writes... Fuck off, I'm gay! Exactly. Just... 00:15:35.659 --> 00:15:38.720 Perfect defiance. Celebrity, anger, politics, 00:15:38.820 --> 00:15:41.139 all colliding in that one moment. It became iconic. 00:15:41.820 --> 00:15:44.480 A real rallying point. And he embraced his identity 00:15:44.480 --> 00:15:47.899 publicly even after getting knighted in 91. The 00:15:47.899 --> 00:15:50.120 Serena nickname. Yeah, apparently Stephen Fry 00:15:50.120 --> 00:15:52.200 gave it to him. And McKellen used it himself 00:15:52.200 --> 00:15:55.200 at the Gay Games closing ceremony in 94. I am 00:15:55.200 --> 00:15:57.059 Sir Ian McKellen, but you can call me Serena. 00:15:57.159 --> 00:15:59.639 Taking an establishment honor and sort of repurposing 00:15:59.639 --> 00:16:01.700 it. Totally. Owning it. Making it a point of 00:16:01.700 --> 00:16:04.039 pride for the whole community. Using that Sir 00:16:04.039 --> 00:16:06.480 to amplify the message, not hide behind it. And 00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:08.750 his activism went international too. Oh yes, 00:16:08.909 --> 00:16:10.970 pushing boundaries everywhere, like that famous 00:16:10.970 --> 00:16:14.429 interview in Singapore. Very conservative place, 00:16:14.610 --> 00:16:16.870 where he just casually asked the morning show 00:16:16.870 --> 00:16:19.830 host for a recommendation for a gay bar. Caused 00:16:19.830 --> 00:16:22.549 a bit of chaos, I imagine. Apparently they cut 00:16:22.549 --> 00:16:24.870 the interview short pretty quickly. But that 00:16:24.870 --> 00:16:27.870 was his style, fearless, using his platform to 00:16:27.870 --> 00:16:30.210 normalize things, even if it made people uncomfortable. 00:16:30.690 --> 00:16:34.190 He also worked with charities outside LGBT causes. 00:16:34.529 --> 00:16:37.960 Yes, Age UK is one he supports strongly. And 00:16:37.960 --> 00:16:39.799 his love for theater came through when he helped 00:16:39.799 --> 00:16:42.659 raise funds to rebuild the Isaac Theater Royal 00:16:42.659 --> 00:16:44.940 in New Zealand after the Christchurch earthquake, 00:16:45.340 --> 00:16:47.379 giving back to the institutions that supported 00:16:47.379 --> 00:16:49.940 him. And a nice personal touch, officiating Patrick 00:16:49.940 --> 00:16:52.220 Stewart's wedding. Became ordained just for that 00:16:52.220 --> 00:16:55.399 purpose in 2013. Lovely gesture between old friends. 00:16:55.639 --> 00:16:58.000 And his activism was formally recognized, too. 00:16:58.240 --> 00:17:01.759 Yes. In 2014, made a Freeman of the City of London. 00:17:02.409 --> 00:17:04.690 And the citation specifically mentioned his work 00:17:04.690 --> 00:17:08.009 for gay rights, putting his activism on par with 00:17:08.009 --> 00:17:10.829 his artistic contributions. It's seen as equally 00:17:10.829 --> 00:17:13.009 important to his legacy. Oh, and health wise, 00:17:13.150 --> 00:17:15.170 he mentioned being diagnosed with prostate cancer 00:17:15.170 --> 00:17:18.309 back in 2006, but said in 2012 it was contained 00:17:18.309 --> 00:17:20.529 and hadn't needed treatment, which is good news. 00:17:20.769 --> 00:17:22.910 OK, so let's try and synthesize all these awards 00:17:22.910 --> 00:17:24.869 and his continuing presence. It's quite a haul. 00:17:24.990 --> 00:17:27.450 It's staggering, really. And across all mediums, 00:17:27.450 --> 00:17:29.690 the Tony win for Amadeus plus another nomination. 00:17:30.380 --> 00:17:32.720 But the Olivier Awards in the UK show the sheer 00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:36.220 depth. Six wins from 12 nominations. Covering 00:17:36.220 --> 00:17:39.359 drama, comedy. Even his one -man show, Ian McKellen 00:17:39.359 --> 00:17:42.299 on stage, won an Olivier in 2020. Then you've 00:17:42.299 --> 00:17:45.019 got the film side. Two Oscar nominations, Gods 00:17:45.019 --> 00:17:47.119 and Monsters in Fellowship. Plus the Golden Globes 00:17:47.119 --> 00:17:50.359 for Rasputin and Emmy's nods. Right. And don't 00:17:50.359 --> 00:17:52.319 forget the Critics Awards for Gods and Monsters. 00:17:52.460 --> 00:17:55.180 He basically swept the board in 98, LA, Chicago, 00:17:55.440 --> 00:17:57.440 National Board of Review. Everyone agreed it 00:17:57.440 --> 00:17:59.059 was the performance of the year. And he's still 00:17:59.059 --> 00:18:02.559 incredibly active, evolving even now. That 2019 00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:07.059 one -man show tour. Ian McKellen on stage with 00:18:07.059 --> 00:18:11.279 Tolkien, Shakespeare, others, and you. That wasn't 00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:13.799 just about performing. It was a fundraiser. For 00:18:13.799 --> 00:18:17.039 theaters. Exactly. Touring around the UK, raising 00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:19.259 money specifically for the venues he played in. 00:18:19.529 --> 00:18:21.789 A direct way of supporting the regional theater 00:18:21.789 --> 00:18:24.910 ecosystem that launched him decades ago. Paying 00:18:24.910 --> 00:18:27.109 it forward. Which is wonderful. And then there's 00:18:27.109 --> 00:18:30.289 the knitting. Huh. Yes. The viral videos with 00:18:30.289 --> 00:18:32.970 Bjorn Ulvaeus from ABA. Just sitting there knitting 00:18:32.970 --> 00:18:35.950 Christmas jumpers on Instagram. It's so unexpected. 00:18:36.470 --> 00:18:38.829 Completely charming. And it perfectly shows his 00:18:38.829 --> 00:18:41.970 modern engagement. This knighted Shakespearean 00:18:41.970 --> 00:18:43.869 legend doing something utterly relatable with 00:18:43.869 --> 00:18:47.170 a pop music icon on social media. And it wasn't 00:18:47.170 --> 00:18:49.369 just a joke. It led to a commission. They were 00:18:49.369 --> 00:18:51.529 commissioned to knit stage wear for Kylie Minogue's 00:18:51.529 --> 00:18:53.829 Vegas residency. You couldn't make it up. It 00:18:53.829 --> 00:18:56.630 just proves even in his mid 80s, he moves effortlessly 00:18:56.630 --> 00:18:59.990 between high art, blockbusters and, well, viral 00:18:59.990 --> 00:19:02.410 knitting content. So wrapping this all up for 00:19:02.410 --> 00:19:06.390 you, the listener. We've gone from that boy in 00:19:06.390 --> 00:19:08.609 wartime Bolton through decades mastering the 00:19:08.609 --> 00:19:11.269 stage to co -founding Sternwald, becoming Sir 00:19:11.269 --> 00:19:14.210 Ian and then Gandalf and Magneto. The sheer range 00:19:14.210 --> 00:19:18.769 is. Wow, it's breathtaking. I think the key takeaway, 00:19:18.930 --> 00:19:21.170 the thread through it all, is how he managed 00:19:21.170 --> 00:19:24.509 to fuse that incredible artistry with such authentic, 00:19:24.890 --> 00:19:27.789 sometimes aggressive, self -expression and activism. 00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:31.119 He proved high culture and mass appeal weren't 00:19:31.119 --> 00:19:33.619 opposites. He made them work together. Amplified 00:19:33.619 --> 00:19:35.859 each other. He used the spotlight from the wizard 00:19:35.859 --> 00:19:38.660 and the mutant to power real world change. It's 00:19:38.660 --> 00:19:41.779 a unique, powerful model of modern celebrity, 00:19:41.960 --> 00:19:44.660 really. That mastery across different world stage 00:19:44.660 --> 00:19:47.619 screen politics, that's his power. So we've seen 00:19:47.619 --> 00:19:49.380 how he leveraged those fantasy roles for his 00:19:49.380 --> 00:19:52.000 activism. But now thinking about him. knitting 00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:54.240 with Bjorn Olweus and getting ready to play Magneto 00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:57.339 again, it makes you wonder what completely new, 00:19:57.420 --> 00:19:59.680 totally unexpected platform might the world's 00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:01.940 most famous working octogenarian actor embrace 00:20:01.940 --> 00:20:04.700 next? How else could he use that incredible influence? 00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:07.779 He's conquered the stage, the screen, the political 00:20:07.779 --> 00:20:11.900 arena. He's done film, TV, viral videos. What's 00:20:11.900 --> 00:20:15.279 left for Serena McKellen to master? And more 00:20:15.279 --> 00:20:17.279 importantly, how will he use it to help others? 00:20:17.680 --> 00:20:19.299 Something for you to think about. Thanks for 00:20:19.299 --> 00:20:21.200 joining us for this deep dive into the phenomenal 00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:22.640 career of Sir Ian McKellen.