WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.480 Welcome to the Deep Dive. Today we're exploring 00:00:02.480 --> 00:00:06.440 a career that's just, well, immense. So influential 00:00:06.440 --> 00:00:08.759 that the New York Times said he secured a place 00:00:08.759 --> 00:00:12.119 in the pantheon of American pop culture. That's 00:00:12.119 --> 00:00:14.039 quite the endorsement. It really is. We're talking 00:00:14.039 --> 00:00:17.379 about someone who's writing sort of shaped modern 00:00:17.379 --> 00:00:19.940 comedy, but often from behind the scenes, you 00:00:19.940 --> 00:00:23.199 know, elevating these huge comedy legends. Precisely. 00:00:23.480 --> 00:00:27.879 We are talking about Alan Zweibel. And our mission 00:00:27.879 --> 00:00:30.899 today is really to unpack this, this incredible 00:00:30.899 --> 00:00:34.380 50 -year creative journey. I mean, you look at 00:00:34.380 --> 00:00:35.880 his resume, it's almost like several different 00:00:35.880 --> 00:00:39.829 careers rolled into one. Writer, producer. Director, 00:00:39.829 --> 00:00:41.810 actor, comedian. Yeah, and the awards kind of 00:00:41.810 --> 00:00:43.350 back that up, don't they? We're talking five 00:00:43.350 --> 00:00:46.009 Emmys. Two Writers Guild Awards. A Tony Award. 00:00:46.270 --> 00:00:48.310 And a Thurber Prize for American Humor, which 00:00:48.310 --> 00:00:50.310 is a big one for writers. Absolutely. So this 00:00:50.310 --> 00:00:53.229 isn't just someone who stayed relevant. He genuinely 00:00:53.229 --> 00:00:55.549 mastered pretty much every platform out there. 00:00:55.630 --> 00:00:57.810 Sketch comedy, novels, Broadway. And what's really 00:00:57.810 --> 00:01:00.789 crucial for you, the listener, to grasp is that 00:01:00.789 --> 00:01:03.210 Zweibel's genius wasn't just about being funny. 00:01:03.490 --> 00:01:06.409 It was about innovating structure. He didn't 00:01:06.409 --> 00:01:08.549 just write jokes for these legends. He kind of 00:01:08.549 --> 00:01:11.189 designed the vehicles, the characters, the show 00:01:11.189 --> 00:01:13.870 formats, the whole framework that let them become 00:01:13.870 --> 00:01:16.810 icons. He was fundamentally an architect. An 00:01:16.810 --> 00:01:19.469 architect of comedy. I like that. So, yeah, we're 00:01:19.469 --> 00:01:21.510 tracing this really interesting path. Started 00:01:21.510 --> 00:01:23.530 at the very bottom writing jokes for, what was 00:01:23.530 --> 00:01:26.049 it, $7 each? Seven bucks a joke, yeah. All the 00:01:26.049 --> 00:01:28.329 way to Broadway wins and co -creating these TV 00:01:28.329 --> 00:01:31.930 shows that just changed the game. Okay, let's 00:01:31.930 --> 00:01:34.280 dive in. Where does it start? Let's unpack this. 00:01:34.340 --> 00:01:36.040 We should probably begin with the hustle, right? 00:01:36.120 --> 00:01:37.879 The early years. Right. Let's set the scene. 00:01:38.319 --> 00:01:40.819 Alan Zweibel, born in Brooklyn, New York City, 00:01:41.000 --> 00:01:46.019 May 20, 1950. So he's 75, based on our source 00:01:46.019 --> 00:01:48.459 info. Grew up with that classic New York comedy 00:01:48.459 --> 00:01:50.640 background, moving from Brooklyn out to the Long 00:01:50.640 --> 00:01:53.180 Island suburbs. Wanta and Woodmere, specifically. 00:01:53.379 --> 00:01:55.840 Jewish background. Graduated high school, George 00:01:55.840 --> 00:01:59.099 W. Hewlett High in 68, then University of Buffalo 00:01:59.099 --> 00:02:01.870 in 72. And here's that detail I always find interesting. 00:02:01.989 --> 00:02:05.409 The sources say he was actually a jock in high 00:02:05.409 --> 00:02:07.370 school. Right. It sort of clashes with the image 00:02:07.370 --> 00:02:09.990 of the solitary comedy writer hunched over to 00:02:09.990 --> 00:02:12.129 typewriter. Totally. But maybe it speaks to, 00:02:12.169 --> 00:02:13.629 I don't know, a certain discipline or drive. 00:02:13.889 --> 00:02:16.050 Could be. You see that transition sometimes. 00:02:16.569 --> 00:02:19.490 But the real career launch pad, the foundational 00:02:19.490 --> 00:02:22.949 part, happens right after college, 1972. And 00:02:22.949 --> 00:02:24.770 this is where you see that incredible discipline 00:02:24.770 --> 00:02:28.169 really kick in. He started writing jokes. for 00:02:28.169 --> 00:02:30.469 stand -up comedians and this was not glamorous 00:02:30.469 --> 00:02:34.050 work at all that seven dollar a joke figure is 00:02:34.050 --> 00:02:37.270 the key detail here seven dollars think about 00:02:37.270 --> 00:02:39.750 that the sheer volume you'd need to write just 00:02:39.750 --> 00:02:42.280 to you know pay rent It's insane. You're basically 00:02:42.280 --> 00:02:44.979 running a joke factory. Constant demand for novelty, 00:02:45.199 --> 00:02:48.139 constant rejection. Oh, absolutely. This is pre 00:02:48.139 --> 00:02:50.020 -internet, remember. You're typing things out, 00:02:50.080 --> 00:02:52.879 delivering them physically, maybe. It's a relentless 00:02:52.879 --> 00:02:55.139 grind. You couldn't just have one viral hit. 00:02:55.180 --> 00:02:57.860 You needed structure, consistency, day in, day 00:02:57.860 --> 00:03:00.900 out. But here's where that grind pays off. Because 00:03:00.900 --> 00:03:03.659 he was churning out so much material. He built 00:03:03.659 --> 00:03:07.000 this massive portfolio. Exactly. Over 1 ,100 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:11.110 jokes. Compiled. Ready to go. And that number, 00:03:11.270 --> 00:03:14.409 1100, it's not just trivia. It's proof of work. 00:03:14.629 --> 00:03:16.789 Proof of professionalism. Right. It showed he 00:03:16.789 --> 00:03:18.849 wasn't just like occasionally funny. He was a 00:03:18.849 --> 00:03:21.270 machine. And that volume is what opened the door. 00:03:22.030 --> 00:03:24.990 1975, he's trying to break into TV. There's this 00:03:24.990 --> 00:03:28.009 new experimental late night show starting up 00:03:28.009 --> 00:03:30.610 Saturday night. Lorne Michaels is putting it 00:03:30.610 --> 00:03:32.349 together. Right. And Zweibel doesn't just walk 00:03:32.349 --> 00:03:35.590 in and, you know. Do a killer five minutes. He 00:03:35.590 --> 00:03:38.189 apparently dumps this huge binder over a thousand 00:03:38.189 --> 00:03:40.810 pages of jokes on Lorne's desk. Like, here's 00:03:40.810 --> 00:03:43.250 the proof. Exactly. Proof that he could handle 00:03:43.250 --> 00:03:45.469 the pressure cooker of live weekly television. 00:03:45.789 --> 00:03:49.090 That he was reliable. Inexhaustible. Lorne Michaels 00:03:49.090 --> 00:03:51.569 saw that. He recognized that work ethic was exactly 00:03:51.569 --> 00:03:54.289 what SNL needed for that chaotic scramble every 00:03:54.289 --> 00:03:57.270 week. And boom. That's the moment. Alan Sweibel 00:03:57.270 --> 00:03:58.909 becomes one of the original writers for Saturday 00:03:58.909 --> 00:04:00.849 Night Live. Okay, so let's unpack that period. 00:04:01.030 --> 00:04:04.969 Five incredibly influential years. 1975 to 1980. 00:04:05.289 --> 00:04:08.009 Yeah, this is where he really transforms. From 00:04:08.009 --> 00:04:11.590 the guy writing $7 jokes to, well, one of the 00:04:11.590 --> 00:04:13.789 foundational architects of modern sketch comedy. 00:04:13.990 --> 00:04:17.649 The early SNL writers' room was legendary. You 00:04:17.649 --> 00:04:20.569 had all these distinct voices. Michael O'Donohue's 00:04:20.569 --> 00:04:23.129 dark stuff. Franken and Davis doing their specific 00:04:23.129 --> 00:04:26.060 character work. Chevy Chase's high energy. Right. 00:04:26.139 --> 00:04:28.339 And Zweibel brought something else to that mix. 00:04:28.439 --> 00:04:30.699 He had this knack for character depth, maybe, 00:04:30.759 --> 00:04:33.540 and a kind of warmth, even a slightly surreal 00:04:33.540 --> 00:04:36.639 emotional core. And that sensibility led directly 00:04:36.639 --> 00:04:39.680 to some of the show's most beloved, most enduring 00:04:39.680 --> 00:04:41.939 characters, especially for Gilda Ratner. Oh, 00:04:41.959 --> 00:04:44.899 absolutely. Gilda was, you could argue, the heart 00:04:44.899 --> 00:04:47.740 of that original cast. And Zweibel created some 00:04:47.740 --> 00:04:50.120 of her absolute signature characters. The sources 00:04:50.120 --> 00:04:52.160 credit him with two of her biggest ones, which 00:04:52.160 --> 00:04:55.879 is just amazing. First, Rosanna Dana. Yes. The 00:04:55.879 --> 00:04:58.980 messy, easily sidetracked consumer affairs reporter 00:04:58.980 --> 00:05:01.139 on Weekend Update. It just goes to show you, 00:05:01.160 --> 00:05:03.720 it's always something. Her rants were these masterpieces 00:05:03.720 --> 00:05:07.689 of control. Totally. Structurally, they were 00:05:07.689 --> 00:05:09.769 bizarre. She'd start on one topic and end up 00:05:09.769 --> 00:05:11.769 talking about, like, finding something gross 00:05:11.769 --> 00:05:14.910 on her hamburger. But Gilda sold it completely. 00:05:15.350 --> 00:05:18.529 And Zrebel's writing just nailed that humor in 00:05:18.529 --> 00:05:22.050 the mundane, the grotesque, the relatable detail. 00:05:22.050 --> 00:05:25.589 Well, then the complete opposite. Emily Lutella. 00:05:25.790 --> 00:05:29.750 The sweet, slightly deaf elderly woman always 00:05:29.750 --> 00:05:32.110 misunderstanding the news on Weekend Update. 00:05:32.560 --> 00:05:36.519 Like railing against violins on television. The 00:05:36.519 --> 00:05:38.939 topic was violence on television or getting worked 00:05:38.939 --> 00:05:41.660 up about saving Soviet jewelry. Instead of saving 00:05:41.660 --> 00:05:44.540 Soviet jewelry, the genius wasn't just the mistake, 00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:47.620 though. It was the reveal. Exactly. Chevy Chase 00:05:47.620 --> 00:05:49.720 or Jane Curtin would correct her, and she'd have 00:05:49.720 --> 00:05:52.220 that little pause. And then, oh, that's very 00:05:52.220 --> 00:05:54.589 different. Never mind. That sweetness, that ability 00:05:54.589 --> 00:05:56.689 to admit she was wrong gave the character such 00:05:56.689 --> 00:05:58.810 heart. That felt like his Weibull touch, that 00:05:58.810 --> 00:06:01.410 connection with Gilda. Definitely. But his range 00:06:01.410 --> 00:06:04.189 wasn't just limited to Gilda. He also wrote the 00:06:04.189 --> 00:06:07.069 iconic samurai sketches for John Belushi. Which 00:06:07.069 --> 00:06:09.430 is incredible versatility. The Radnor characters 00:06:09.430 --> 00:06:12.170 were all about the words, the monologues. Right. 00:06:12.490 --> 00:06:16.069 Highly verbal. Samurai sketches, samurai delicatessen, 00:06:16.189 --> 00:06:19.569 samurai hotel, samurai optometrist. They were 00:06:19.569 --> 00:06:22.649 almost pure physical comedy, all about Belushi's 00:06:22.649 --> 00:06:25.470 intensity, his commitment to the bit. And Zweibel 00:06:25.470 --> 00:06:28.810 understood how to write for that physicality, 00:06:28.810 --> 00:06:31.930 for that visual humor. It's like writing an opera 00:06:31.930 --> 00:06:34.439 versus writing a silent film. He could do both. 00:06:34.620 --> 00:06:36.839 Amazing. Okay, let's bring in that great little 00:06:36.839 --> 00:06:39.240 piece of trivia that shows how intertwined their 00:06:39.240 --> 00:06:41.620 lives were in that writer's room. Ah, the Richard 00:06:41.620 --> 00:06:45.079 Fetter in -joke. Yes. We all heard Rosanna Dana 00:06:45.079 --> 00:06:47.620 say it countless times on Weekend Update. This 00:06:47.620 --> 00:06:49.699 question comes from Mr. Richard Fetter of Fort 00:06:49.699 --> 00:06:52.240 Lee, New Jersey. Became a catchphrase, almost. 00:06:52.560 --> 00:06:54.459 But it wasn't just a random name they pulled 00:06:54.459 --> 00:06:57.300 out of a hat. No. Richard Fetter of Fort Lee, 00:06:57.420 --> 00:07:00.600 New Jersey was Alan Zweibel's actual brother 00:07:00.600 --> 00:07:03.189 -in -law who lived in Fort Lee. Get out of here, 00:07:03.250 --> 00:07:06.129 really. Yep. It just shows you the DNA of early 00:07:06.129 --> 00:07:08.829 SNL. They were pulling stuff straight from their 00:07:08.829 --> 00:07:10.449 own lives, their families, their neighborhoods. 00:07:10.730 --> 00:07:13.149 Folding those private jokes into national television, 00:07:13.370 --> 00:07:16.129 it gave the show this unique, grounded feel, 00:07:16.310 --> 00:07:19.990 almost meta before meta was really a thing. Absolutely. 00:07:20.149 --> 00:07:22.990 And that blurring of lines, that personal connection 00:07:22.990 --> 00:07:26.339 was... deepest with Gilda Radner. Their collaboration, 00:07:26.620 --> 00:07:29.199 their friendship went way beyond those five years 00:07:29.199 --> 00:07:31.639 at SNL. It was clearly a profound relationship, 00:07:31.779 --> 00:07:33.819 professionally and personally. Totally. And it 00:07:33.819 --> 00:07:36.459 connects forward in his career in a really poignant 00:07:36.459 --> 00:07:39.500 way. Gilda Radner's very last television appearance 00:07:39.500 --> 00:07:42.040 was on an episode of his Gary Shandling show. 00:07:42.259 --> 00:07:45.480 Wow. So Zweibel, who was about to redefine TV 00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:48.240 comedy again with Shandling, gave his friend 00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:52.019 that final platform. It seems that way. And then... 00:07:52.240 --> 00:07:55.360 After her tragic death from cancer, Zweibel did 00:07:55.360 --> 00:07:58.420 what great writers do. Yeah. He channeled that 00:07:58.420 --> 00:08:01.379 grief, that loss into his work. Which led to 00:08:01.379 --> 00:08:04.139 the book Bunny Bunny. Gilda Redner, a sort of 00:08:04.139 --> 00:08:07.379 love story. A bestseller. And hugely influential. 00:08:07.740 --> 00:08:10.000 It wasn't just a tribute. It showed Swivel as 00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:12.879 this serious, heartfelt writer, capable of real 00:08:12.879 --> 00:08:15.480 emotional depth, not just punchlines. It reads 00:08:15.480 --> 00:08:17.540 like a memoir, but with the timing of a comedian 00:08:17.540 --> 00:08:20.019 and the depth of a novelist, it's a unique piece 00:08:20.019 --> 00:08:21.939 of writing. And then, proving he could counter 00:08:21.939 --> 00:08:24.319 yet another medium, he adapted Bunny Bunny into 00:08:24.319 --> 00:08:27.379 an off -Broadway play. Right. Same title. It's 00:08:27.379 --> 00:08:30.360 just solid proof that his comedy, even the wildest 00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:33.200 stuff, comes from a place of deep character understanding, 00:08:33.580 --> 00:08:36.320 personal observation, and real emotion. Which 00:08:36.320 --> 00:08:38.559 kind of elevates it beyond just, you know, funny 00:08:38.559 --> 00:08:41.159 sketches. Yeah, definitely. And that ability 00:08:41.159 --> 00:08:44.879 to transition from the sketch world to deep emotional 00:08:44.879 --> 00:08:47.940 territory sets us up perfectly for the next phase. 00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:51.580 Alan Zweibel as, uh, what did we call him? The 00:08:51.580 --> 00:08:54.360 television landscape architect. Good title. Because 00:08:54.360 --> 00:08:57.330 po - Post -SNL, he wasn't just repeating himself. 00:08:57.629 --> 00:09:00.090 He started looking at the sitcom format and thinking, 00:09:00.169 --> 00:09:02.370 OK, what else can this do? Which led him straight 00:09:02.370 --> 00:09:05.570 to Gary Shandling. The Shandling Era. He co -created 00:09:05.570 --> 00:09:08.110 and produced It's Gary Shandling Show. Ran from 00:09:08.110 --> 00:09:11.139 86 to 90. won a Cable Lace Award for the writing. 00:09:11.259 --> 00:09:13.299 For anyone listening who hasn't seen it, it's 00:09:13.299 --> 00:09:15.580 hard to overstate how groundbreaking this show 00:09:15.580 --> 00:09:17.759 was. It wasn't just funny, it changed the rules. 00:09:17.980 --> 00:09:19.679 How did they pull that off? Well, they basically 00:09:19.679 --> 00:09:22.220 took metacomedy, which had existed in bits and 00:09:22.220 --> 00:09:24.440 pieces, and made it the entire foundation of 00:09:24.440 --> 00:09:26.700 the show. Right, breaking the fourth wall constantly. 00:09:27.080 --> 00:09:29.870 All the time. Gary lived in this world where 00:09:29.870 --> 00:09:32.529 he knew he was on a TV show. He talked to the 00:09:32.529 --> 00:09:34.889 audience, pointed at the cameras, commented on 00:09:34.889 --> 00:09:36.529 the sets. Like walking through his apartment 00:09:36.529 --> 00:09:38.950 set and saying, this isn't a real kitchen, you 00:09:38.950 --> 00:09:41.389 know? Exactly. The humor came from that constant 00:09:41.389 --> 00:09:43.750 self -awareness, that pulling back the curtain. 00:09:43.929 --> 00:09:46.129 Which requires a totally different writing muscle 00:09:46.129 --> 00:09:49.330 than SNL, right? SNL builds to a punchline or 00:09:49.330 --> 00:09:51.830 a blackout. Channeling was about deconstructing 00:09:51.830 --> 00:09:54.129 the whole thing while still being funny and somehow 00:09:54.129 --> 00:09:57.210 sincere. Absolutely. It paved the way for so 00:09:57.210 --> 00:09:59.460 much. much self -referential comedy that came 00:09:59.460 --> 00:10:01.659 later. You can draw a direct line to shows like 00:10:01.659 --> 00:10:04.679 30 Rock, Arrested Development, maybe even Aspects 00:10:04.679 --> 00:10:07.200 of Seinfeld. So it's that ability to innovate 00:10:07.200 --> 00:10:10.820 structure, not just jokes, that explains his 00:10:10.820 --> 00:10:13.480 longevity. I think so. He understood the framework 00:10:13.480 --> 00:10:16.039 of comedy. And that insight clearly made him 00:10:16.039 --> 00:10:18.679 valuable later on, too. He pops up as a consulting 00:10:18.679 --> 00:10:21.539 producer on another huge landmark of structural 00:10:21.539 --> 00:10:24.299 comedy. Curb Your Enthusiasm. Right. From 2001 00:10:24.299 --> 00:10:27.820 to 2002. That's an amazing trajectory. Early 00:10:27.820 --> 00:10:31.080 SNL chaos, pioneering meta comedy with Shandling, 00:10:31.159 --> 00:10:33.899 then consulting on Larry David's ultimate cringe 00:10:33.899 --> 00:10:37.200 improv masterpiece. What does a writer like Zweibel 00:10:37.200 --> 00:10:39.860 bring to Curb, which is so heavily improvised? 00:10:40.120 --> 00:10:42.799 Well, even though the dialogue on Curb is improvised, 00:10:42.899 --> 00:10:45.820 the stories are meticulously outlined. You need 00:10:45.820 --> 00:10:48.960 a master architect to build that structure. Zweibel, 00:10:49.080 --> 00:10:51.679 with his decades of experience, knows exactly 00:10:51.679 --> 00:10:54.980 how to build comedic tension, how to set up payoffs, 00:10:55.080 --> 00:10:57.779 how to weave those seemingly random threads together 00:10:57.779 --> 00:11:01.419 into those intricate curb plots. He ensures the 00:11:01.419 --> 00:11:04.299 improv serves the story. He's providing the roadmap 00:11:04.299 --> 00:11:06.679 for the chaos. Kind of, yeah. He makes sure the 00:11:06.679 --> 00:11:08.700 chaos leads somewhere satisfying. But he could 00:11:08.700 --> 00:11:11.360 also pivot away from pure comedy. The credits 00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:14.120 list includes writing an episode of Monk in 2007. 00:11:14.480 --> 00:11:16.240 You have The Detective Show with Tony Shellhoop. 00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:18.100 That's a totally different discipline. Mystery 00:11:18.100 --> 00:11:21.100 structure, clues, red herrings, procedural beats. 00:11:21.500 --> 00:11:23.240 It just proves his core skill is storytelling, 00:11:23.600 --> 00:11:26.279 period. Not just joke writing. He understood 00:11:26.279 --> 00:11:28.700 dramatic structure, too. And alongside these 00:11:28.700 --> 00:11:30.759 innovative projects, he was still involved in 00:11:30.759 --> 00:11:33.480 more traditional formats. Created and executive 00:11:33.480 --> 00:11:36.080 produced sitcoms like One of the Boys in 89. 00:11:36.519 --> 00:11:39.799 And Good Sports in 91. Plus his prestige work 00:11:39.799 --> 00:11:43.000 goes way back. He won an Emmy for the Paul Simon 00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:46.440 special way back in 1977. Writing for a variety 00:11:46.440 --> 00:11:48.460 special like that requires a different kind of 00:11:48.460 --> 00:11:51.330 skill set again. weaving together music, comedy 00:11:51.330 --> 00:11:53.990 bits, celebrity appearances. He really was the 00:11:53.990 --> 00:11:56.850 ultimate utility player for TV comedy and variety 00:11:56.850 --> 00:11:59.590 in the 70s and 80s. He worked on Steve Martin's 00:11:59.590 --> 00:12:02.350 Best Show Ever in 81. And he's remained the guy 00:12:02.350 --> 00:12:04.809 they call for the big SNL anniversary specials. 00:12:04.809 --> 00:12:07.690 He's like the institutional memory of TV comedy. 00:12:08.049 --> 00:12:10.429 He both made the history and helps chronicle 00:12:10.429 --> 00:12:12.429 it. Speaking of chronicling history, he himself 00:12:12.429 --> 00:12:14.610 shows up in a lot of major comedy documentaries. 00:12:14.909 --> 00:12:17.870 His presence almost validates the subject's importance. 00:12:18.129 --> 00:12:19.809 Totally. See him in The Last Laugh, which is 00:12:19.809 --> 00:12:22.710 about humor and the Holocaust showing his engagement 00:12:22.710 --> 00:12:24.889 with serious themes. Obviously, he's central 00:12:24.889 --> 00:12:27.710 to Judd Apatow's The Zen Diaries of Gary Shandling. 00:12:27.909 --> 00:12:30.309 Makes sense. He's in Gilbert, the documentary 00:12:30.309 --> 00:12:32.370 about Gilbert Gottfried. And he was an executive 00:12:32.370 --> 00:12:34.789 producer on Love, Gilda, the documentary about 00:12:34.789 --> 00:12:37.590 Radner. His consistent appearance in these just 00:12:37.590 --> 00:12:40.409 underlines it. You can't tell the story of modern 00:12:40.409 --> 00:12:42.850 American comedy without talking about Alan Zweibel. 00:12:42.990 --> 00:12:45.509 He's woven into the fabric of it. Okay, so let's 00:12:45.509 --> 00:12:48.179 shift gears slightly. Part four. Let's talk about 00:12:48.179 --> 00:12:50.960 his work on stage and in film, which is really 00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:53.980 dominated by that long running, super successful 00:12:53.980 --> 00:12:56.639 partnership with another SNL great, Billy Crystal. 00:12:56.759 --> 00:12:58.860 Right. The Swivel -Crystal connection is remarkable. 00:12:59.340 --> 00:13:02.159 Decades of creative trust moving across different 00:13:02.159 --> 00:13:04.980 mediums. It really hit a peak with 700 Sundays 00:13:04.980 --> 00:13:08.019 on Broadway. Opened in 2005. And it wasn't just 00:13:08.019 --> 00:13:10.320 on Broadway. It was a massive event. Won the 00:13:10.320 --> 00:13:12.899 Tony Award for Best Special Theatrical Event. 00:13:13.100 --> 00:13:15.539 What made that show, essentially Crystal doing 00:13:15.539 --> 00:13:17.740 a one -man show, so special? Well, like Bunny 00:13:17.740 --> 00:13:19.899 Bunny, it was this masterfully crafted blend 00:13:19.899 --> 00:13:22.879 of comedy and deeply personal autobiography. 00:13:23.139 --> 00:13:26.700 But live on stage, Swiebel's writing provided 00:13:26.700 --> 00:13:29.340 the structure, the backbone for Crystal's incredible 00:13:29.340 --> 00:13:32.570 performance. The humor wasn't just random jokes. 00:13:32.830 --> 00:13:35.450 It served the story Crystal's childhood, his 00:13:35.450 --> 00:13:38.129 relationship with his dad. It had real emotional 00:13:38.129 --> 00:13:40.629 weight. So Zweibel could write for a stand -up's 00:13:40.629 --> 00:13:43.330 voice, but give it the dramatic heft needed for 00:13:43.330 --> 00:13:46.490 Broadway, for a Tony. Exactly. And that partnership 00:13:46.490 --> 00:13:49.090 is still going strong. This is an ancient history. 00:13:49.230 --> 00:13:51.370 They co -wrote and produced the movie Here Today 00:13:51.370 --> 00:13:54.029 just a few years ago, in 2021. Right. Crystal 00:13:54.029 --> 00:13:55.990 directed and starred with Tiffany Haddish, so 00:13:55.990 --> 00:13:57.909 they're still actively making films together. 00:13:58.090 --> 00:14:00.850 Yeah. And his other film credits show that range 00:14:00.850 --> 00:14:03.289 again. Co -writer on the Dragnet movie back in 00:14:03.289 --> 00:14:05.269 87. The one with Ackroyd and Tom Hanks, right. 00:14:05.350 --> 00:14:07.710 Big blockbuster comedy. Taking stetch characters 00:14:07.710 --> 00:14:09.549 and trying to make them work in a feature film, 00:14:09.690 --> 00:14:12.470 which is notoriously hard. Very hard. Then he 00:14:12.470 --> 00:14:14.690 co -wrote and produced The Story of Us in 1999. 00:14:15.330 --> 00:14:17.389 That was Bruce Willis and Michelle Pfeiffer. 00:14:17.529 --> 00:14:19.830 More of a romantic comedy drama. Different tone 00:14:19.830 --> 00:14:21.950 entirely. Totally different. And then there's 00:14:21.950 --> 00:14:27.220 North from 1994. Ah, yes. Infamous, maybe, but 00:14:27.220 --> 00:14:29.539 significant because it was based on his own young 00:14:29.539 --> 00:14:31.700 adult novel. Right, which highlights another 00:14:31.700 --> 00:14:34.179 aspect of his talent. He could create an idea, 00:14:34.399 --> 00:14:37.059 write it as a book first, and then shepherd it 00:14:37.059 --> 00:14:39.700 to the screen as a writer and producer. That's 00:14:39.700 --> 00:14:41.720 a lot of creative control. And sticking with 00:14:41.720 --> 00:14:44.059 that theme of blurring roles, he often popped 00:14:44.059 --> 00:14:46.960 up in these movies too, right? Yeah, little cameos. 00:14:47.139 --> 00:14:49.759 He was Uncle Shelly in The Story of Us, played 00:14:49.759 --> 00:14:52.879 a coach in North, the writer who also wants to 00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:55.450 be part of the action. Classic. And his stage 00:14:55.450 --> 00:14:58.230 work goes beyond Crystal, too. He co -wrote Martin 00:14:58.230 --> 00:15:01.289 Short's Broadway show, Fame Becomes Me. Another 00:15:01.289 --> 00:15:03.889 great example of shaping a comedic persona into 00:15:03.889 --> 00:15:06.590 a theatrical memoir. And he wrote several off 00:15:06.590 --> 00:15:09.669 -Broadway plays, between Cars, Comic Dialogue, 00:15:09.710 --> 00:15:11.690 Happy, which was a real commitment to theater. 00:15:11.870 --> 00:15:13.750 And he's still doing live performance stuff now, 00:15:13.809 --> 00:15:15.929 appearing in Celebrity Autobiography in New York. 00:15:16.070 --> 00:15:19.269 Right. Keeps his hand in. What's also fascinating, 00:15:19.450 --> 00:15:21.909 like with any prolific writer, is the stuff that 00:15:21.909 --> 00:15:24.210 didn't get made. The sources mentioned some unproduced 00:15:24.210 --> 00:15:27.210 screenplay titles. Oh, yeah. Titles like Barbarians 00:15:27.210 --> 00:15:29.250 at the Plate. Sounds like a baseball satire. 00:15:30.370 --> 00:15:35.269 Marrying Mom. Men Who Lunch. And this one sounds 00:15:35.269 --> 00:15:38.659 intriguing. Waiting for Sam to Die. Wow, that 00:15:38.659 --> 00:15:40.720 last one sounds pretty dramatic. They hint at 00:15:40.720 --> 00:15:42.740 a writer constantly wrestling with big themes, 00:15:42.879 --> 00:15:45.879 family, mortality, absurdity, but always through 00:15:45.879 --> 00:15:48.299 that comedic filter. Even the unproduced stuff 00:15:48.299 --> 00:15:50.779 paints a picture of a mind that just never stopped 00:15:50.779 --> 00:15:53.340 generating ideas, pushing boundaries. Which leads 00:15:53.340 --> 00:15:55.700 us perfectly into the final section, part five. 00:15:56.000 --> 00:15:58.600 His literary career, which really cemented his 00:15:58.600 --> 00:16:01.399 reputation beyond TV and film, and a quick recap 00:16:01.399 --> 00:16:03.100 of all those awards. Yeah, the guy who started 00:16:03.100 --> 00:16:06.200 writing $7 jokes ended up writing 11 books. That's 00:16:06.200 --> 00:16:09.009 a serious body of work. prose, memoir, humor, 00:16:09.169 --> 00:16:11.309 even children's books. The versatility is just 00:16:11.309 --> 00:16:14.049 staggering. And the literary world took notice. 00:16:14.250 --> 00:16:17.090 His novel, The Other Shulman, published in 2007. 00:16:17.429 --> 00:16:19.909 Won the 2006 Thurber Prize for American Humor. 00:16:19.929 --> 00:16:22.250 Which is basically the top award for literary 00:16:22.250 --> 00:16:24.889 humor in the U .S. Puts him in very elite company. 00:16:25.049 --> 00:16:27.389 It recognizes writing crafted for the page, not 00:16:27.389 --> 00:16:29.450 just for performance. Definitely a huge achievement. 00:16:29.690 --> 00:16:33.730 And then his 2020 memoir, Laugh Lines, My Life, 00:16:33.889 --> 00:16:37.470 Helping Funny People Be Funnier. The title says 00:16:37.470 --> 00:16:39.889 it all, really. Yeah, it frames his whole career 00:16:39.889 --> 00:16:42.350 as being in service to others' comedy, facilitating 00:16:42.350 --> 00:16:45.070 their brilliance, Radner, Shanling, Crystal. 00:16:45.370 --> 00:16:47.529 He often stepped back to let the stars shine. 00:16:47.730 --> 00:16:50.470 But maybe the most surprising turn is his children's 00:16:50.470 --> 00:16:54.710 book. Our Tree Named Steve, 2007. Not just a 00:16:54.710 --> 00:16:57.519 kid's book, but a huge success. Scholastic book 00:16:57.519 --> 00:17:00.279 club pick translated into 11 languages. Think 00:17:00.279 --> 00:17:02.559 about that. The guy who wrote Rosanna Rosanna 00:17:02.559 --> 00:17:04.940 Dana's gross out stories also wrote this simple, 00:17:04.960 --> 00:17:07.819 heartfelt, universal story about a tree that 00:17:07.819 --> 00:17:10.460 connects with kids globally. It proves that the 00:17:10.460 --> 00:17:13.440 genuine emotion we saw in Bunny Bunny is core 00:17:13.440 --> 00:17:15.730 to his talent. You can't fake it in children's 00:17:15.730 --> 00:17:18.470 lit. You need sincerity, simplicity, heart. And 00:17:18.470 --> 00:17:20.569 he delivered. He also seems to thrive on collaboration 00:17:20.569 --> 00:17:22.609 in his book writing, too. Absolutely. Teamed 00:17:22.609 --> 00:17:24.890 up with the great Dave Barry for Lunatics. And 00:17:24.890 --> 00:17:27.269 then formed this kind of humor supergroup with 00:17:27.269 --> 00:17:30.349 Barry and Adam Manspaul. Right. Together they 00:17:30.349 --> 00:17:34.029 did For This We Left Egypt, a Passover Haggadah 00:17:34.029 --> 00:17:37.049 paternity. basically, and a field guide to the 00:17:37.049 --> 00:17:39.430 Jewish people. Very high concept cultural humor. 00:17:39.569 --> 00:17:41.690 He clearly loves working in a team, whether it's 00:17:41.690 --> 00:17:44.650 a TV writer's room or like a shared Google doc. 00:17:44.869 --> 00:17:46.829 Seems like it. And he did two books just with 00:17:46.829 --> 00:17:49.670 Mansbach about Benjamin Franklin, aimed at younger 00:17:49.670 --> 00:17:51.730 readers, too, I think. Benjamin Franklin. Huge 00:17:51.730 --> 00:17:53.710 pain in my and Benjamin Franklin. You've got 00:17:53.710 --> 00:17:56.130 mail. Still playing with history, still collaborating, 00:17:56.289 --> 00:17:58.829 keeping things fresh way into his later career. 00:17:59.269 --> 00:18:01.430 OK, so looking back across this whole amazing 00:18:01.430 --> 00:18:04.000 canvas. Let's just quickly tick off the major 00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:07.079 honors again, because seeing them together really 00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:09.779 drives home the mastery across disciplines. Four 00:18:09.779 --> 00:18:13.119 Emmys for writing. SNL. Paul Simon special. The 00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:17.180 Tony Award in 2005 for 700 Sundays. Drama, emotion, 00:18:17.519 --> 00:18:20.380 structure on stage. The Thurber Prize in 2006. 00:18:20.759 --> 00:18:23.440 Pure literary humor achievement. The Writers 00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:26.220 Guild Lifetime Achievement Award in 2010. His 00:18:26.220 --> 00:18:28.400 peers recognizing his monumental contribution. 00:18:28.940 --> 00:18:32.039 An honorary Ph .D. from S .U .N .Y. in 2009. 00:18:32.420 --> 00:18:34.640 The awards really do confirm it. He didn't just 00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:36.460 succeed on one platform. He conquered pretty 00:18:36.460 --> 00:18:39.259 much all of them. He really did. So we've covered 00:18:39.259 --> 00:18:42.200 this incredible journey from that relentless 00:18:42.200 --> 00:18:45.960 seven dollar joke writer needing sheer volume 00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:48.559 to survive. Which landed him in the revolutionary 00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:52.099 SNL writers room. creating these immortal characters. 00:18:52.299 --> 00:18:54.779 Then immediately innovating again, redefining 00:18:54.779 --> 00:18:58.200 the sitcom with its Gary Shandling show, shaping 00:18:58.200 --> 00:19:00.559 meta -comedy. And bringing that structural genius 00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:03.660 even to improvised shows like Curb. And throughout, 00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:06.140 proving that great comedy often comes from a 00:19:06.140 --> 00:19:08.740 deep personal place, translating his friendship 00:19:08.740 --> 00:19:11.500 with Gilda into Bunny Bunny. Conquering Broadway 00:19:11.500 --> 00:19:14.099 with Billy Crystal by blending humor and autobiography 00:19:14.099 --> 00:19:16.759 in 700 Sundays. And that capacity for genuine 00:19:16.759 --> 00:19:19.180 feeling allowed him to pivot seamlessly from 00:19:19.180 --> 00:19:22.390 satire to writing a globally beloved children's 00:19:22.390 --> 00:19:24.930 book like Our Tree Named Steve. And underpinning 00:19:24.930 --> 00:19:27.170 all this creative work, the sources note, is 00:19:27.170 --> 00:19:30.049 a stable personal life. Married to his wife Robin 00:19:30.049 --> 00:19:33.670 since 1979, three kids, five grandkids, a life 00:19:33.670 --> 00:19:36.529 of partnership, creation, commitment. So thinking 00:19:36.529 --> 00:19:39.650 about this legacy. What does it mean for you 00:19:39.650 --> 00:19:42.750 listening? Here's a creator who just smashed 00:19:42.750 --> 00:19:45.529 through creative boundaries. Manic TV, serious 00:19:45.529 --> 00:19:48.509 novels, kids books, Broadway drama. His success 00:19:48.509 --> 00:19:50.809 came from being able to pivot between high comedy 00:19:50.809 --> 00:19:53.190 and genuine emotion. Which really raises that 00:19:53.190 --> 00:19:54.730 fundamental question for anyone doing creative 00:19:54.730 --> 00:19:56.329 work, doesn't it? Do you have to pick a lane, 00:19:56.470 --> 00:19:59.509 stick to one style or genre to really master 00:19:59.509 --> 00:20:03.170 it? Or is the real path to that kind of pantheon 00:20:03.170 --> 00:20:05.910 status found in understanding something more 00:20:05.910 --> 00:20:09.250 basic human emotion, maybe, that lets you cross 00:20:09.250 --> 00:20:11.470 those boundaries? Swible makes a strong case 00:20:11.470 --> 00:20:14.039 for the latter. The core skill transfers. From 00:20:14.039 --> 00:20:16.980 a $7 joke to a Tony -winning play, it's the same 00:20:16.980 --> 00:20:18.839 underlying understanding. Pretty amazing range. 00:20:19.180 --> 00:20:21.799 So think about that. What creative boundary could 00:20:21.799 --> 00:20:24.279 you cross next? How could you take what you already 00:20:24.279 --> 00:20:26.319 know and apply it somewhere completely unexpected? 00:20:26.980 --> 00:20:29.619 Something to ponder. Thanks for diving up with 00:20:29.619 --> 00:20:31.180 us today. Thank you. See you next time.