WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.379 Welcome back to The Deep Dive. We're here again 00:00:02.379 --> 00:00:04.759 wading through, you know, a mountain of information 00:00:04.759 --> 00:00:07.379 to pull out what you really need to know. That's 00:00:07.379 --> 00:00:10.500 the goal. And today we're tackling a really significant 00:00:10.500 --> 00:00:13.640 figure, someone who didn't just shape modern 00:00:13.640 --> 00:00:17.260 American fine dining, but kind of redefined the 00:00:17.260 --> 00:00:19.339 whole idea of what a chef could be. We're talking 00:00:19.339 --> 00:00:21.500 about Thomas Patrick Colicchio. Yeah, this is 00:00:21.500 --> 00:00:24.399 a crucial deep dive, I think, because Colicchio's 00:00:24.399 --> 00:00:29.030 story, it... mirrors the last, what, 30 years 00:00:29.030 --> 00:00:31.530 of American food culture almost perfectly. Oh, 00:00:31.530 --> 00:00:33.549 so? Well, he did just stick to being a chef, 00:00:33.590 --> 00:00:36.469 a restaurateur, right? He moved way beyond that. 00:00:36.549 --> 00:00:40.070 From the pressure cooker of high -end New York 00:00:40.070 --> 00:00:42.429 kitchens to being this incredibly recognizable 00:00:42.429 --> 00:00:45.329 face on TV. And then the really interesting bit, 00:00:45.390 --> 00:00:48.270 becoming this genuine, pretty vocal advocate 00:00:48.270 --> 00:00:50.750 for changing food policy. It's a journey from, 00:00:50.810 --> 00:00:53.649 like, star chef to what you might call the citizen 00:00:53.649 --> 00:00:56.340 chef. The citizen chef. I like that. So that's 00:00:56.340 --> 00:00:58.179 our mission for this deep dive then. Yeah. To 00:00:58.179 --> 00:01:00.299 unpack all of that. The full scope of his influence. 00:01:00.719 --> 00:01:03.100 Exactly. We need to look at how he built his 00:01:03.100 --> 00:01:06.620 whole crafted hospitality empire step by step. 00:01:06.700 --> 00:01:09.359 What's really at the heart of his cooking philosophy. 00:01:09.680 --> 00:01:11.920 Cracked hospitality, yeah. And then explore how 00:01:11.920 --> 00:01:14.540 deep his impact goes outside the kitchen. You 00:01:14.540 --> 00:01:19.739 know, TV, shore, but also policy, advocacy, maybe 00:01:19.739 --> 00:01:21.920 even Capitol Hill. Okay. But before we get to 00:01:21.920 --> 00:01:24.810 the policy stuff, we have to establish. His culinary 00:01:24.810 --> 00:01:26.950 chops, right? I mean, the foundation. Oh, absolutely. 00:01:27.010 --> 00:01:29.430 You can't understand the rest without knowing 00:01:29.430 --> 00:01:33.010 the baseline. This is someone whose skill, whose 00:01:33.010 --> 00:01:35.730 technique, it's been recognized at the highest 00:01:35.730 --> 00:01:38.209 level. Repeatedly. We're talking James Beard 00:01:38.209 --> 00:01:40.590 awards. Five of them. Specifically for cooking. 00:01:40.730 --> 00:01:43.290 What's a massive achievement for any chef, period. 00:01:43.530 --> 00:01:45.290 And yet, for so many people listening, maybe 00:01:45.290 --> 00:01:46.989 people who've never eaten at Kraft, he's just... 00:01:47.159 --> 00:01:49.680 The guy from TV, the head judge on Top Chef every 00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:51.819 single season. Right. He's instantly recognizable 00:01:51.819 --> 00:01:55.739 in that role. Stoic, demanding, knows his stuff. 00:01:56.359 --> 00:01:58.859 That dual identity is really fascinating, isn't 00:01:58.859 --> 00:02:00.819 it? It really is. Just so everyone's clear. The 00:02:00.819 --> 00:02:03.680 name, Colicchio, pronounced K -O -B -A -R -I 00:02:03.680 --> 00:02:07.260 -S -K -J -O -B -A -R -I -M -A -N. Got it. Colicchio. 00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:10.340 OK, so let's rewind. Where did this all start? 00:02:10.460 --> 00:02:14.360 The ambition, the drive, maybe even that sense 00:02:14.360 --> 00:02:16.879 of civic duty we see later. OK, so the beginning, 00:02:17.039 --> 00:02:19.280 like a lot of great American chefs, actually, 00:02:19.300 --> 00:02:21.680 it starts not in some fancy European kitchen, 00:02:21.780 --> 00:02:24.259 but New Jersey. Elizabeth, New Jersey, right? 00:02:24.280 --> 00:02:27.379 Born August 15th, 1962. That's the one, Thomas 00:02:27.379 --> 00:02:30.300 Patrick Colicchio. And his background, it's Italian 00:02:30.300 --> 00:02:32.460 -American on both sides, which, you know, often 00:02:32.460 --> 00:02:35.960 suggests a certain ingrained respect for ingredients, 00:02:35.979 --> 00:02:39.560 for tradition. Food is central. Yeah, but I think 00:02:39.560 --> 00:02:41.719 if you dig a little deeper into his family, specifically 00:02:41.719 --> 00:02:45.090 his parents' jobs. You see these hints, these 00:02:45.090 --> 00:02:48.210 maybe influences that seem to foreshadow that 00:02:48.210 --> 00:02:50.469 whole citizen chef thing later on. It's not just 00:02:50.469 --> 00:02:52.009 about Sunday dinner. You're absolutely right. 00:02:52.069 --> 00:02:54.490 It's fascinating. His mother, Beverly Ann Corvelli, 00:02:54.590 --> 00:02:57.590 she worked in a school lunchroom. A school lunchroom. 00:02:57.629 --> 00:02:59.830 Think about that. Yeah. It's a direct line to 00:02:59.830 --> 00:03:02.009 institutional food. It's about feeding lots of 00:03:02.009 --> 00:03:04.750 people, efficiency, budgets, and importantly, 00:03:04.949 --> 00:03:07.900 feeding kids, the public. That connection feels 00:03:07.900 --> 00:03:09.740 really significant when you look at his later 00:03:09.740 --> 00:03:11.659 work on school lunch reform and hunger issues. 00:03:11.919 --> 00:03:14.800 Totally. And then there's his father, maybe even 00:03:14.800 --> 00:03:17.599 more direct in terms of the advocacy piece. His 00:03:17.599 --> 00:03:19.840 father was a union organizer. Right. So you put 00:03:19.840 --> 00:03:22.400 those two things together, food service as a 00:03:22.400 --> 00:03:24.979 kind of public good and the fight for workers' 00:03:25.080 --> 00:03:27.979 rights for organization. It's a potent mix, isn't 00:03:27.979 --> 00:03:30.020 it? That kind of organizing spirit, that focus 00:03:30.020 --> 00:03:34.460 on fairness, on systems. You can see how he might 00:03:34.460 --> 00:03:37.439 later apply that same thinking to the food system, 00:03:37.520 --> 00:03:39.620 to the restaurant world itself. It definitely 00:03:39.620 --> 00:03:42.020 adds context. He wasn't just like laser focused 00:03:42.020 --> 00:03:44.020 on Michelin stars from day one. There were other 00:03:44.020 --> 00:03:46.020 values there. He was the middle son, right? Two 00:03:46.020 --> 00:03:47.879 brothers. Yep. Older brother, Michael. Younger 00:03:47.879 --> 00:03:50.000 brother, Philip John. Yeah. And his education 00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:52.180 was local. Graduated from Elizabeth High School 00:03:52.180 --> 00:03:55.180 in 1980. Yeah. And then straight into the kitchen. 00:03:55.280 --> 00:03:57.599 No messing around. Okay. So high school grad 00:03:57.599 --> 00:04:01.120 jumps right into the pro kitchen world and his 00:04:01.120 --> 00:04:04.280 apprenticeship phase. Wow. He lands in the kitchen 00:04:04.280 --> 00:04:06.919 of another absolute giant of American cooking. 00:04:07.000 --> 00:04:09.419 That had to set the tone. Oh, definitely. Mid-'80s 00:04:09.419 --> 00:04:12.060 Manhattan. Yeah. He's sous chef to Thomas Keller 00:04:12.060 --> 00:04:15.159 at a place called Raquel. Kelly! French laundry 00:04:15.159 --> 00:04:17.759 Keller. The very same. This was before the French 00:04:17.759 --> 00:04:19.800 laundry, but Keller's philosophy was already 00:04:19.800 --> 00:04:22.420 there. That intense precision, the technique, 00:04:22.740 --> 00:04:28.740 the almost relentless focus on quality. So Caligio's 00:04:28.740 --> 00:04:30.600 soaking all that up. The discipline, the execution. 00:04:30.920 --> 00:04:33.610 Exactly. That focus on doing things perfectly, 00:04:33.790 --> 00:04:36.629 respecting the ingredient above all else. Not 00:04:36.629 --> 00:04:40.730 fussy, just flawless technique applied to the 00:04:40.730 --> 00:04:43.350 absolute best stuff you could find. That becomes 00:04:43.350 --> 00:04:45.189 his bedrock. Which brings us pretty directly 00:04:45.189 --> 00:04:47.990 to the partnership that basically defined high 00:04:47.990 --> 00:04:50.350 -end New York dining for a generation, Gramercy 00:04:50.350 --> 00:04:54.709 Tavern. Ah, yes. July 1994. He co -founds Gramercy 00:04:54.709 --> 00:04:57.579 Tavern in, well, Gramercy Park. with Danny Meyer. 00:04:57.779 --> 00:04:59.740 And this wasn't just another restaurant opening. 00:04:59.879 --> 00:05:01.680 It felt like a shift. What made it so different? 00:05:01.899 --> 00:05:03.740 It was kind of revolutionary, really, because 00:05:03.740 --> 00:05:06.420 it took Colicchio's approach, you know, amazing 00:05:06.420 --> 00:05:08.759 ingredients, serious technique, and married it 00:05:08.759 --> 00:05:10.819 with Danny Meyer's whole thing, that enlightened 00:05:10.819 --> 00:05:13.240 hospitality. Right. Meyer's focus on service, 00:05:13.459 --> 00:05:15.959 warmth, making people feel genuinely looked after. 00:05:16.060 --> 00:05:18.240 Exactly. So Gramercy Tavern managed to bridge 00:05:18.240 --> 00:05:20.160 that gap. It was serious food, haute cuisine 00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:23.920 level, but it felt welcoming, approachable, not 00:05:23.920 --> 00:05:26.470 stuffy. And people loved it, not just the critics. 00:05:26.769 --> 00:05:29.970 Oh, the response was huge. And it lasted. You 00:05:29.970 --> 00:05:32.350 look at the Zagat survey. That's the voice of 00:05:32.350 --> 00:05:35.269 the dining public. Really voted most popular 00:05:35.269 --> 00:05:38.910 restaurant in New York City. Twice. 2003 and 00:05:38.910 --> 00:05:41.910 2005. That says a lot about the whole package. 00:05:42.129 --> 00:05:44.870 The food, the service, the vibe. Okay, so here's 00:05:44.870 --> 00:05:47.389 the pivotal moment then. It's a massive success. 00:05:47.569 --> 00:05:52.180 It's iconic. And yet, Colicchio leaves. sells 00:05:52.180 --> 00:05:55.000 his stake in 2006. That's the crucial turn, yeah. 00:05:55.180 --> 00:05:57.899 The move that really signals he's building his 00:05:57.899 --> 00:06:00.939 own brand. But why? I mean, why walk away from 00:06:00.939 --> 00:06:02.500 that? It seems like a huge gamble. Was it just 00:06:02.500 --> 00:06:05.060 money or was there a deeper split with Meyer? 00:06:05.279 --> 00:06:08.259 Well, the sources point more towards... Let's 00:06:08.259 --> 00:06:10.680 call it an ideological and strategic split. It 00:06:10.680 --> 00:06:12.699 was that control, really. Control over what? 00:06:12.839 --> 00:06:14.699 Think about it. Meyer and Colicchio were like 00:06:14.699 --> 00:06:16.660 two sides of the perfect restaurant coin, right? 00:06:16.779 --> 00:06:18.639 Meyer was obsessed with the front of house, the 00:06:18.639 --> 00:06:20.899 guest experience. Colicchio, deep down, he's 00:06:20.899 --> 00:06:23.459 a kitchen guy. Ingredient driven. Totally. He 00:06:23.459 --> 00:06:25.360 wanted complete say over the food philosophy, 00:06:25.519 --> 00:06:28.339 how it would expand, the sourcing, all of it. 00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:30.889 The kitchen had to be the absolute center. So 00:06:30.889 --> 00:06:33.949 it was kind of a hospitality first versus ingredient 00:06:33.949 --> 00:06:37.410 first situation. And Colicchio needed his own 00:06:37.410 --> 00:06:40.009 space to build an empire based entirely on his 00:06:40.009 --> 00:06:42.920 rules. The crafted hospitality rules. Precisely. 00:06:43.000 --> 00:06:45.899 It wasn't acrimonious necessarily, but it was 00:06:45.899 --> 00:06:49.139 a strategic parting of ways. He's no longer connected 00:06:49.139 --> 00:06:51.420 to Gramercy Tavern. Yeah. And that freed him 00:06:51.420 --> 00:06:53.740 up to focus entirely on the company he'd actually 00:06:53.740 --> 00:06:56.459 already started building five years before. Okay. 00:06:56.480 --> 00:06:58.480 So that departure from Gramercy Tavern allows 00:06:58.480 --> 00:07:00.639 him to fully commit to his own thing, which really 00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:03.500 kicked off in 2001 with the first craft restaurant. 00:07:03.759 --> 00:07:07.600 Yes. Spring 2001. And the location was, well. 00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:10.240 Strategic. Just one block south of Granbury Sea 00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:12.060 Tavern. Dining a message. I think you could say 00:07:12.060 --> 00:07:14.379 that, yeah. This is my vision now. And that opening, 00:07:14.500 --> 00:07:16.160 that's the official start of his own company, 00:07:16.300 --> 00:07:18.439 Crafted Hospitality. So what was so revolutionary 00:07:18.439 --> 00:07:20.480 about Craft back then? How did it shake things 00:07:20.480 --> 00:07:22.560 up in the New York dining scene of the early 00:07:22.560 --> 00:07:24.899 2000s? It was a big departure from the norm. 00:07:25.480 --> 00:07:28.199 At that time, fine dining often meant very elaborate, 00:07:28.279 --> 00:07:30.959 pre -plated dishes. Lots of components, often 00:07:30.959 --> 00:07:33.439 French techniques, multi -course tasting menus 00:07:33.439 --> 00:07:35.990 were king. Craft just... Threw a lot of that 00:07:35.990 --> 00:07:38.810 out. Colicchio built the menu around the ingredient 00:07:38.810 --> 00:07:43.009 itself, served family style or a la carte. Super 00:07:43.009 --> 00:07:45.029 simple presentation. So like instead of some 00:07:45.029 --> 00:07:47.329 complicated name, the menu might just say roasted 00:07:47.329 --> 00:07:51.279 beets or dry aged ribeye. Pretty much. Yeah. 00:07:51.379 --> 00:07:53.680 Often just listing the core ingredients. The 00:07:53.680 --> 00:07:56.360 genius was letting the craft, the perfect roasting, 00:07:56.459 --> 00:07:58.139 the sourcing, the technique speak for itself. 00:07:58.399 --> 00:08:01.060 You tasted the beet. You tasted the pork. No 00:08:01.060 --> 00:08:03.660 heavy sauces hiding things. So he's elevating 00:08:03.660 --> 00:08:06.199 humble stuff like root vegetables to the same 00:08:06.199 --> 00:08:08.819 level as the fancy protein. Exactly. That focus 00:08:08.819 --> 00:08:11.560 on seasonality, simplicity, letting the ingredients 00:08:11.560 --> 00:08:14.759 shine. It became hugely influential. You still 00:08:14.759 --> 00:08:16.660 see its impact everywhere. And he didn't waste 00:08:16.660 --> 00:08:18.980 any time extending on that vision. Almost immediately 00:08:18.980 --> 00:08:21.269 he showed. He wasn't just a chef. He was thinking 00:08:21.269 --> 00:08:23.730 like a businessman, too. Yeah. Just a year later, 00:08:23.870 --> 00:08:26.870 2002, the first Kraft Steak opens. Where? Las 00:08:26.870 --> 00:08:30.149 Vegas. At the MGM Grand. Smart move. Straight 00:08:30.149 --> 00:08:32.809 into that high -volume, high -profit resort dining 00:08:32.809 --> 00:08:35.529 world. It showed he could adapt the core idea, 00:08:35.730 --> 00:08:38.149 take that commitment to quality ingredients, 00:08:38.409 --> 00:08:41.350 the Kraft ethos, and scale it up for a different 00:08:41.350 --> 00:08:46.889 market. Vegas demands consistency. Volume. It's 00:08:46.889 --> 00:08:49.320 a different beast. But while all this expansion 00:08:49.320 --> 00:08:51.879 is happening, there's that moment that shows 00:08:51.879 --> 00:08:55.440 a different side. Right around when Kraft opened. 00:08:55.659 --> 00:08:57.919 You're talking about 9 -11. Yeah. The sources 00:08:57.919 --> 00:09:00.980 mention this specific, really powerful anecdote. 00:09:01.019 --> 00:09:04.080 They do. After the attacks, like many chefs in 00:09:04.080 --> 00:09:07.179 the city, Colicchio mobilized. He was down there, 00:09:07.259 --> 00:09:09.539 personally serving food to the rescue workers 00:09:09.539 --> 00:09:11.820 at Ground Zero. That wasn't about business. Not 00:09:11.820 --> 00:09:14.769 at all. It was just a human response. A civic 00:09:14.769 --> 00:09:16.809 response. And it really connects back to those 00:09:16.809 --> 00:09:18.549 family roots we talked about, that sense of community 00:09:18.549 --> 00:09:20.750 responsibility. Puts the business growth in perspective. 00:09:21.110 --> 00:09:23.250 Okay, back to the business side. 2003, another 00:09:23.250 --> 00:09:25.370 big innovation for the brand. He goes, accessible. 00:09:25.629 --> 00:09:28.029 Beastcraft. The sandwich shop. This was brilliant. 00:09:28.210 --> 00:09:31.490 Why? Brilliant. Sandwiches, right. Ah, but craft 00:09:31.490 --> 00:09:33.570 proved he could elevate fine dining technique. 00:09:34.570 --> 00:09:36.309 Witchcraft proved he could elevate something 00:09:36.309 --> 00:09:40.129 every day. Same philosophy. Amazing bread, house 00:09:40.129 --> 00:09:43.299 -made stuff, great ingredients. But in a sandwich. 00:09:43.519 --> 00:09:45.539 So it took the brand to a much wider audience. 00:09:45.720 --> 00:09:47.620 Yeah. Beyond the fancy dining room. Totally. 00:09:47.700 --> 00:09:50.120 Into the quick service market. Built massive 00:09:50.120 --> 00:09:52.159 brand recognition. Probably helped fund the more 00:09:52.159 --> 00:09:54.840 ambitious projects. It was smart scaling. The 00:09:54.840 --> 00:09:57.080 momentum kept building. The end of that decade, 00:09:57.259 --> 00:10:00.320 2010, seems like a huge year. Massive. He opens 00:10:00.320 --> 00:10:02.639 Colicchio and Sons, which was this sort of refined 00:10:02.639 --> 00:10:05.399 Italian -American spot. And also River Park, 00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:07.919 which had its own urban farm. Really pushing 00:10:07.919 --> 00:10:10.259 that farm -to -table idea. And amidst all that 00:10:10.259 --> 00:10:14.049 opening activity. The big award. Yep. 2010 is 00:10:14.049 --> 00:10:16.590 when he wins the James Beard Award for Outstanding 00:10:16.590 --> 00:10:18.850 Chef. The big one. It felt like everything coming 00:10:18.850 --> 00:10:21.169 together. The restaurants were hot. The critics 00:10:21.169 --> 00:10:24.090 loved him. The business was booming. Pete Colicchio, 00:10:24.269 --> 00:10:26.610 in a way. So let's fast forward to today. What 00:10:26.610 --> 00:10:29.370 does crafted hospitality look like now? It seems 00:10:29.370 --> 00:10:31.649 like he's consolidated things a bit. He definitely 00:10:31.649 --> 00:10:34.250 has. It's dynamic, for sure, but more focused. 00:10:34.330 --> 00:10:36.009 New York City is still the heart, no question. 00:10:36.409 --> 00:10:39.110 So the flagship craft is still there in NYC. 00:10:39.169 --> 00:10:41.250 Still there. You've got Temple Court downtown. 00:10:41.750 --> 00:10:43.929 People might remember that space as Fowler and 00:10:43.929 --> 00:10:45.809 Wells. Beautiful room. Witchcraft still has a 00:10:45.809 --> 00:10:48.110 presence. Yep. The sandwich shops are still going 00:10:48.110 --> 00:10:50.590 strong in New York. And he launched a more focused 00:10:50.590 --> 00:10:53.269 Italian spot, Vallotta, also in the city. Okay. 00:10:53.309 --> 00:10:56.100 And outside New York. Vegas is still key. Kraft 00:10:56.100 --> 00:10:58.700 Steak at the MGM Grand is a major anchor for 00:10:58.700 --> 00:11:01.399 the brand. And he's got Small Batch out on Long 00:11:01.399 --> 00:11:04.779 Island in Garden City. So it's a mix, high -end 00:11:04.779 --> 00:11:08.100 destination, neighborhood spots, retail. It feels 00:11:08.100 --> 00:11:10.700 more managed now. Right. But, and this is a big 00:11:10.700 --> 00:11:13.259 but, we have to talk about the flip side. The 00:11:13.259 --> 00:11:16.200 restaurant business is notoriously tough, even 00:11:16.200 --> 00:11:18.720 for someone like Colicchio. Oh, absolutely. You 00:11:18.720 --> 00:11:21.360 look at his history and the list of restaurants 00:11:21.360 --> 00:11:23.259 that are no longer operating under crashed hospitality, 00:11:23.820 --> 00:11:27.240 it's long. It really underlines how brutal the 00:11:27.240 --> 00:11:29.879 industry is, how constant the evolution has to 00:11:29.879 --> 00:11:32.659 be just to stay afloat. It's easy to see the 00:11:32.659 --> 00:11:35.279 awards, the TV fame, and assume it's all been 00:11:35.279 --> 00:11:37.980 smooth sailing financially. But the turnover 00:11:37.980 --> 00:11:40.840 is significant. It shows how hard it is to scale, 00:11:40.980 --> 00:11:43.580 especially nationally. Let's look at some specifics. 00:11:43.779 --> 00:11:47.259 The craft and craft bar concepts. The national 00:11:47.259 --> 00:11:50.000 expansion proved really challenging. Right. Craft 00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:53.360 Dallas closed back in 2012. Yep. And the craft 00:11:53.360 --> 00:11:56.460 locations in L .A. and Atlanta also closed. The 00:11:56.460 --> 00:11:58.820 more casual version, Craft Bar, shut down in 00:11:58.820 --> 00:12:00.960 both New York and Atlanta, too. And it wasn't 00:12:00.960 --> 00:12:03.039 just the craft brand. Some of the high -end places, 00:12:03.320 --> 00:12:06.379 the steakhouses, they had closures, too. Definitely. 00:12:06.809 --> 00:12:09.169 Beechcraft down Miami Beach, that's gone. The 00:12:09.169 --> 00:12:11.350 craft stake out at the Foxwoods Casino in Connecticut 00:12:11.350 --> 00:12:14.769 closed. Even a big 2010 opening, Colicchio and 00:12:14.769 --> 00:12:17.309 Sons in Chelsea, closed after about six years. 00:12:17.450 --> 00:12:19.909 Wow. And some high profile hotel partnerships 00:12:19.909 --> 00:12:22.350 didn't last either. Right. Like Tom Colicchio's 00:12:22.350 --> 00:12:24.690 Heritage Steak at the Mirage in Vegas. He's not 00:12:24.690 --> 00:12:26.789 affiliated with that anymore. And remember topping 00:12:26.789 --> 00:12:29.549 Rose House out in the Hamptons. Critically acclaimed, 00:12:29.549 --> 00:12:31.629 but no longer part of his group. It's important 00:12:31.629 --> 00:12:33.629 to stress this isn't always about failure in 00:12:33.629 --> 00:12:35.629 the traditional sense, is it? Sometimes it's 00:12:35.629 --> 00:12:37.990 strategic. Lease renewals, changing markets. 00:12:38.470 --> 00:12:40.629 Exactly. Sometimes walking away is the smart 00:12:40.629 --> 00:12:43.250 business move. But it shows the constant pressure. 00:12:43.470 --> 00:12:45.690 Yeah. And you have to add the places he's just 00:12:45.690 --> 00:12:47.250 no longer affiliated with, like the original. 00:12:47.529 --> 00:12:50.090 Gramercy Tavern and River Park. He really did 00:12:50.090 --> 00:12:52.509 trim things down, focus on the court. That focus 00:12:52.509 --> 00:12:54.470 even applied to witchcraft, didn't it? Outside 00:12:54.470 --> 00:12:56.690 of New York. It did. The New York shops are the 00:12:56.690 --> 00:12:59.289 main focus now. The outposts they tried in Vegas 00:12:59.289 --> 00:13:01.129 and San Francisco eventually closed too. It's 00:13:01.129 --> 00:13:03.950 just a tough model to replicate perfectly everywhere. 00:13:04.090 --> 00:13:08.059 Labor costs, rent, supply chains. It's relentless. 00:13:08.220 --> 00:13:10.320 The volume of turnover really paints a picture 00:13:10.320 --> 00:13:12.440 of the risk involved, even at the highest level. 00:13:12.600 --> 00:13:14.840 OK, let's shift gears. Let's talk about the thing 00:13:14.840 --> 00:13:16.960 that made Tom Colicchio a household name for 00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:20.379 millions, people who might never, ever step inside 00:13:20.379 --> 00:13:23.860 one of his restaurants, TV, specifically Top 00:13:23.860 --> 00:13:26.179 Chef. Yeah, Top Chef is. It's his monument in 00:13:26.179 --> 00:13:28.860 media, right? Dead judge since day one, 2006. 00:13:29.100 --> 00:13:32.320 And his whole persona on that show, it's distinct. 00:13:32.419 --> 00:13:34.840 It's not like a lot of other reality TV chefs. 00:13:35.259 --> 00:13:37.519 How would you describe it? He's not shouty, not 00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:40.720 overly dramatic. No, not at all. He's the quiet 00:13:40.720 --> 00:13:44.019 authority, the benchmark for quality, for technique. 00:13:44.299 --> 00:13:47.539 He carved out this role as the serious one. The 00:13:47.539 --> 00:13:50.360 arbiter. Exactly. It's kind of the stoic, maybe 00:13:50.360 --> 00:13:53.320 slightly stern culinary father figure of the 00:13:53.320 --> 00:13:55.759 show. You have Padma bringing the elegance, Ale 00:13:55.759 --> 00:13:58.440 Simmons offering context and maybe a more accessible 00:13:58.440 --> 00:14:02.820 viewpoint. But Colicchio was the voice of professional 00:14:02.820 --> 00:14:05.940 reality. His critiques weren't just, I don't 00:14:05.940 --> 00:14:08.899 like this. They were grounded in technique. He'd 00:14:08.899 --> 00:14:11.700 talk about flawless execution or understanding 00:14:11.700 --> 00:14:14.379 the method or respecting the ingredient. He gave 00:14:14.379 --> 00:14:17.019 the show its culinary credibility, really. His 00:14:17.019 --> 00:14:19.559 seriousness elevated it, stopped it from just 00:14:19.559 --> 00:14:22.080 being silly reality TV. Totally. He brought the 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:24.320 gravitas, and his influence wasn't just sitting 00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:26.559 at the judges' table. He was also a main consulting 00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:29.279 producer on the spinoff, Top Chef Masters. So 00:14:29.279 --> 00:14:31.440 he was shaping the challenges, the integrity 00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:33.980 of the competition itself. Right, ensuring it 00:14:33.980 --> 00:14:36.100 met a certain standard. And that standard, that 00:14:36.100 --> 00:14:39.509 quality, it got recognized. The show won an Emmy 00:14:39.509 --> 00:14:42.750 in 2010, Outstanding Reality Competition Program. 00:14:43.009 --> 00:14:45.730 He won that as an executive producer. That speaks 00:14:45.730 --> 00:14:49.429 volumes about the show's quality. And a lot of 00:14:49.429 --> 00:14:51.509 that comes down to him. He did branch out a bit 00:14:51.509 --> 00:14:54.029 on TV, too, didn't he? Hosted another show. Yeah. 00:14:54.070 --> 00:14:57.149 In 2015, he hosted Best New Restaurant. It was 00:14:57.149 --> 00:14:59.169 based on a British show, one of Gordon Ramsay's 00:14:59.169 --> 00:15:01.590 formats, actually. So judging not just plates 00:15:01.590 --> 00:15:04.090 of food, but the whole restaurant, the concept, 00:15:04.230 --> 00:15:06.289 the operation. Exactly. Which makes total sense 00:15:06.289 --> 00:15:08.450 for him, given his background running a whole 00:15:08.450 --> 00:15:11.049 hospitality group. It was a natural fit. OK, 00:15:11.129 --> 00:15:12.610 now here's where it gets really interesting for 00:15:12.610 --> 00:15:15.830 me, how he sort of seeped into the wider culture 00:15:15.830 --> 00:15:19.809 beyond food TV. He became this shorthand for 00:15:19.809 --> 00:15:22.190 serious chef. Oh, yeah. He started popping up 00:15:22.190 --> 00:15:24.490 in fictional stuff, playing himself. It shows 00:15:24.490 --> 00:15:27.100 how recognizable he'd become. Like in Treme, 00:15:27.259 --> 00:15:29.759 the HBO show about New Orleans after Katrina. 00:15:30.039 --> 00:15:33.039 Right. He appeared in a couple of episodes. Alongside 00:15:33.039 --> 00:15:35.500 other huge names like Eric Ripper, David Chain, 00:15:35.700 --> 00:15:38.600 Wiley Dufresne, his presence just added instant 00:15:38.600 --> 00:15:41.399 culinary authenticity to those scenes about the 00:15:41.399 --> 00:15:43.539 food world there. And then the cameos get kind 00:15:43.539 --> 00:15:46.360 of wild. Animated Colicchia. The Simpsons. Season 00:15:46.360 --> 00:15:49.799 23 premiere. He voiced himself basically playing 00:15:49.799 --> 00:15:52.940 his top chef judge persona in Springfield. And 00:15:52.940 --> 00:15:54.759 he was in the live action Smurfs movie, too, 00:15:54.860 --> 00:15:58.759 in 2011. Being on The Simpsons, that's like peak 00:15:58.759 --> 00:16:01.120 cultural saturation, isn't it? Pretty much. And 00:16:01.120 --> 00:16:03.919 more recently, he showed up in Showtime's Billions 00:16:03.919 --> 00:16:06.500 playing a chef in a scene. These aren't just 00:16:06.500 --> 00:16:08.659 random cameos. They cement him as a figure people 00:16:08.659 --> 00:16:10.940 instantly recognize, even outside the food bubble. 00:16:11.100 --> 00:16:13.220 OK, but maybe the most significant part of his 00:16:13.220 --> 00:16:15.399 later career, the part that really defines the 00:16:15.399 --> 00:16:18.519 citizen chef idea, is his move into policy and 00:16:18.519 --> 00:16:21.720 advocacy. This feels like a major pivot. It is 00:16:21.720 --> 00:16:24.139 major. But if you look back, it also feels like 00:16:24.139 --> 00:16:25.659 a natural progression, right? Connects right 00:16:25.659 --> 00:16:27.840 back to that family history. The union organizer 00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:30.139 dad, the school lunchroom mom. So what issues 00:16:30.139 --> 00:16:32.600 specifically? He's been involved for a long time 00:16:32.600 --> 00:16:35.480 now, focusing on the food supply chain, issues 00:16:35.480 --> 00:16:37.940 facing restaurant workers, and hunger relief. 00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:42.299 He clearly realized his fame, his platform gave 00:16:42.299 --> 00:16:45.559 him access and a voice that most chefs just don't 00:16:45.559 --> 00:16:47.559 have. And he's not just tweeting about it. He's 00:16:47.559 --> 00:16:49.559 getting involved organizationally, trying to 00:16:49.559 --> 00:16:52.159 push for actual policy changes. Exactly. He's 00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:54.440 taken on formal roles. He's on the food council 00:16:54.440 --> 00:16:57.139 at City Harvest, the culinary council at Food 00:16:57.139 --> 00:16:59.679 Bank for New York City. These aren't just names 00:16:59.679 --> 00:17:02.259 on a letterhead. It means using his influence, 00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:05.599 his connections, fundraising. What specific policy 00:17:05.599 --> 00:17:08.420 areas does he hammer on? Okay, so one big one 00:17:08.420 --> 00:17:11.519 is restaurant labor. He's been really vocal about 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:13.619 getting rid of the tipped minimum wage, a tip 00:17:13.619 --> 00:17:16.160 credit. He argues for one fair minimum wage for 00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:18.140 everyone in the restaurant. That's a controversial 00:17:18.140 --> 00:17:20.440 stance within the industry itself. Oh, hugely. 00:17:20.599 --> 00:17:24.180 But he argues it's about basic fairness, professionalizing 00:17:24.180 --> 00:17:26.920 the industry, making jobs more stable. Then there's 00:17:26.920 --> 00:17:29.420 food insecurity. The hunger relief side. Yeah, 00:17:29.500 --> 00:17:31.720 rooted in that family connection again, maybe. 00:17:32.200 --> 00:17:34.920 He's testified before Congress multiple times, 00:17:35.019 --> 00:17:38.660 especially around the Farm Bill, advocating for 00:17:38.660 --> 00:17:42.559 protecting and increasing funding for SNAP food 00:17:42.559 --> 00:17:46.200 stamps. He frames hunger as a systemic issue 00:17:46.200 --> 00:17:48.700 the government needs to address, not just charity. 00:17:49.069 --> 00:17:50.670 He's also talked about corporate concentration 00:17:50.670 --> 00:17:53.089 in the food system, right? Yeah. Big companies 00:17:53.089 --> 00:17:55.630 having too much control. Yes. He connects that 00:17:55.630 --> 00:17:59.089 to price volatility and fairness for both farmers 00:17:59.089 --> 00:18:01.170 and consumers. He's demanding more accountability 00:18:01.170 --> 00:18:04.150 there. And this advocacy work became very visible 00:18:04.150 --> 00:18:06.509 with that documentary film in 2013. Place at 00:18:06.509 --> 00:18:08.609 the Table. Yeah. That was a big public statement. 00:18:08.789 --> 00:18:11.289 It focused squarely on hunger and food insecurity 00:18:11.289 --> 00:18:13.630 in America. And it was a family affair. Oh, so. 00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:16.059 It was directed by his wife, Lori Silverbush. 00:18:16.099 --> 00:18:18.519 And Colicchio wasn't just in it appearing alongside 00:18:18.519 --> 00:18:21.079 people like Jeff Bridges and the activist Raj 00:18:21.079 --> 00:18:23.420 Patel. He was also an executive producer. It 00:18:23.420 --> 00:18:26.299 was a clear signal that they see these food issues 00:18:26.299 --> 00:18:29.420 as deeply social and political. That film definitely 00:18:29.420 --> 00:18:32.180 raised awareness. And he kept that momentum going, 00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:34.319 moving into the digital space to continue the 00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:37.480 conversation. Right. June 2020, he launches his 00:18:37.480 --> 00:18:40.759 own podcast, Citizen Chef. The name says it all. 00:18:41.410 --> 00:18:43.470 Explicitly linking food and politics. Exactly. 00:18:43.650 --> 00:18:45.730 It's on the iHeartRadio network, comes out seasonally. 00:18:45.750 --> 00:18:48.670 And the whole point is to dig into food, politics, 00:18:48.910 --> 00:18:51.990 policies, citizenship. He talks to lawmakers, 00:18:52.309 --> 00:18:55.539 activists, experts. covering everything from 00:18:55.539 --> 00:18:58.819 climate change impacts on farming to, you know, 00:18:58.819 --> 00:19:01.400 the nitty gritty of school lunch programs. It's 00:19:01.400 --> 00:19:03.539 really the culmination of that advocacy role. 00:19:03.660 --> 00:19:06.160 So to round out the picture, let's touch on his 00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:07.960 personal life and also his cookbooks, because 00:19:07.960 --> 00:19:09.960 they really map out his culinary thinking over 00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:12.579 the years. Gives you a sense of the person behind 00:19:12.579 --> 00:19:15.099 the brand. Yeah, absolutely. So personally, he's 00:19:15.099 --> 00:19:17.619 been married since 2001 to Lori Silverbush, the 00:19:17.619 --> 00:19:19.930 filmmaker we just mentioned. And their collaboration 00:19:19.930 --> 00:19:22.109 on A Place at the Table really highlights that 00:19:22.109 --> 00:19:24.190 shared interest in social issues, doesn't it? 00:19:24.250 --> 00:19:26.230 It seems like a real partnership beyond just 00:19:26.230 --> 00:19:28.309 marriage. It really does. Like their professional 00:19:28.309 --> 00:19:31.049 lives and their activism kind of merged. It's 00:19:31.049 --> 00:19:32.990 powerful. And they have a family. He has three 00:19:32.990 --> 00:19:35.970 sons. That's right. An older son, Dante, who 00:19:35.970 --> 00:19:38.069 was born in 93 from a previous relationship. 00:19:38.269 --> 00:19:42.230 And then two sons with Lori Silverbush. Luca 00:19:42.230 --> 00:19:46.509 Bodi, born 2009, and Matteo Lev, born 2011. You 00:19:46.509 --> 00:19:49.319 think about the demands. Running the restaurants, 00:19:49.619 --> 00:19:53.240 the TV shows, the advocacy work. That family 00:19:53.240 --> 00:19:55.799 structure must be incredibly important. Has to 00:19:55.799 --> 00:19:58.440 be. It's a balancing act, for sure. Okay, let's 00:19:58.440 --> 00:20:00.599 talk books. His cookbooks aren't just recipe 00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:03.960 collections. They're like milestones in his thinking. 00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:06.220 You can trace the evolution of his philosophy 00:20:06.220 --> 00:20:08.200 through them. The first one came out in 2000, 00:20:08.359 --> 00:20:10.759 just before Kraft opened, Think Like a Chef. 00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:13.230 Right. And the title is key. It wasn't just cook 00:20:13.230 --> 00:20:15.250 like a chef. It was about the mindset. So less 00:20:15.250 --> 00:20:17.349 about specific recipes, more about approach. 00:20:17.670 --> 00:20:20.170 Exactly. It was his manifesto. How to think about 00:20:20.170 --> 00:20:22.210 ingredients, how to understand techniques fundamentally, 00:20:22.430 --> 00:20:24.710 why things work together. It was teaching the 00:20:24.710 --> 00:20:26.809 reader the process of culinary thinking, not 00:20:26.809 --> 00:20:29.430 just how to follow steps A, B, and C. Okay, so 00:20:29.430 --> 00:20:32.630 that's the foundation. Then, 2003, comes Craft 00:20:32.630 --> 00:20:34.890 of Cricking. Notes and recipes from a restaurant 00:20:34.890 --> 00:20:37.509 kitchen. Now, this one is the application. This 00:20:37.509 --> 00:20:40.630 is taking that philosophy and showing how it 00:20:40.630 --> 00:20:42.769 works in the demanding environment of a high 00:20:42.769 --> 00:20:45.730 -end kitchen, specifically craft. It gave you 00:20:45.730 --> 00:20:47.809 a real peek behind the curtain. More technical 00:20:47.809 --> 00:20:49.910 than nuts and bolts. Yeah, the practical execution. 00:20:50.470 --> 00:20:53.450 The rigor involved in producing food at that 00:20:53.450 --> 00:20:56.109 level, night after night. It's the roadmap for 00:20:56.109 --> 00:20:58.670 the craft style. And then the third one, 2009, 00:20:58.950 --> 00:21:00.789 kind of brings it full circle back to accessibility. 00:21:01.690 --> 00:21:05.069 Witchcraft. Craft a sandwich into a meal. And 00:21:05.069 --> 00:21:07.269 a meal into a sandwich. Perfect title. Right. 00:21:07.589 --> 00:21:10.130 This mirrors that business move with the witchcraft 00:21:10.130 --> 00:21:13.049 shops. It takes the core craft idea, the focus 00:21:13.049 --> 00:21:16.609 on quality ingredients, technique, seasoning, 00:21:16.769 --> 00:21:18.710 and applies it to something totally familiar. 00:21:18.910 --> 00:21:20.910 A sandwich. Showing that craft isn't just for 00:21:20.910 --> 00:21:23.430 fancy food. Exactly. That the same principles 00:21:23.430 --> 00:21:25.730 apply whether you're making a $50 entree or a 00:21:25.730 --> 00:21:28.289 $10 sandwich. Quality matters at every level. 00:21:28.410 --> 00:21:30.529 So if you look at the three books together. You 00:21:30.529 --> 00:21:33.809 see the whole arc. Establish the thinking. Think 00:21:33.809 --> 00:21:36.490 like a chef. Apply it at the highest level, craft 00:21:36.490 --> 00:21:38.549 of cooking, then make it accessible and demonstrate 00:21:38.549 --> 00:21:41.910 its universality, witchcraft. It shows the completeness 00:21:41.910 --> 00:21:44.809 of his vision, really. Artist, technician, and 00:21:44.809 --> 00:21:47.410 entrepreneur. Hashtag tag, hashtag outro. Okay, 00:21:47.470 --> 00:21:49.950 so wrapping this all up, what's the big takeaway 00:21:49.950 --> 00:21:52.430 for you, the listener, when you boil down everything 00:21:52.430 --> 00:21:54.640 we've talked about? Thomas Colicchio's career 00:21:54.640 --> 00:21:58.460 is just, it's a fascinating study in how to evolve, 00:21:58.660 --> 00:22:00.759 how to diversify. Absolutely. You've got the 00:22:00.759 --> 00:22:03.519 core culinary achievement, five James Beard Awards, 00:22:03.759 --> 00:22:06.160 co -founding an iconic restaurant like Gramercy 00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:08.779 Tavern, building and constantly adapting crafted 00:22:08.779 --> 00:22:11.640 hospitality. That alone is a huge legacy. But 00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:13.519 it's the transformation that really stands out, 00:22:13.559 --> 00:22:15.680 isn't it? I think so. He went from being this 00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:18.420 highly respected but maybe somewhat niche chef 00:22:18.420 --> 00:22:22.240 to a major media figure, thanks mostly to the 00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:24.599 series. he brought to Top Chef. Right. And this 00:22:24.599 --> 00:22:27.000 is the crucial part. He leveraged that visibility. 00:22:27.339 --> 00:22:29.839 He didn't just cash checks. He used it to become 00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:32.759 a genuinely influential voice on policy through 00:22:32.759 --> 00:22:35.299 the documentary, the podcast, the whole Citizen 00:22:35.299 --> 00:22:37.640 Chef platform. So here's the question we want 00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:39.779 to leave you with. Think about that through line. 00:22:40.099 --> 00:22:42.690 We started way back with his family. The union 00:22:42.690 --> 00:22:45.190 organizer, father, the mother working in a school 00:22:45.190 --> 00:22:48.069 cafeteria. Yeah. When you look at his intense 00:22:48.069 --> 00:22:52.210 focus now on food policy, on hunger, on fighting 00:22:52.210 --> 00:22:54.589 for better wages and conditions in restaurants, 00:22:54.930 --> 00:22:58.049 doesn't it feel like a direct line? Like maybe 00:22:58.049 --> 00:23:01.349 that later activism was almost baked in from 00:23:01.349 --> 00:23:03.190 the start. It really makes you think. And it 00:23:03.190 --> 00:23:05.250 points to something broader about what a celebrity 00:23:05.250 --> 00:23:09.509 chef is now. Colicchio really embodies this shift, 00:23:09.630 --> 00:23:11.700 maybe more than anyone. How so? Well, they're 00:23:11.700 --> 00:23:13.799 not just cooks anymore, are they? Not just focused 00:23:13.799 --> 00:23:15.759 inward on their kitchens or their businesses. 00:23:15.940 --> 00:23:18.480 The most influential ones, like Colicchio, they're 00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:20.420 actively involved in shaping the conversation 00:23:20.420 --> 00:23:23.240 around food, culturally, politically. They understand 00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:25.140 the power they have. You realize their influence 00:23:25.140 --> 00:23:27.599 goes way beyond just what's on the plate. His 00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:29.579 career is almost a blueprint, showing how you 00:23:29.579 --> 00:23:31.799 can use media fame to become a serious player 00:23:31.799 --> 00:23:34.539 in policy debates. Talking about wages, health 00:23:34.539 --> 00:23:36.559 care for restaurant workers, school lunches, 00:23:36.559 --> 00:23:39.789 food deserts, big systemic issues. So the final 00:23:39.789 --> 00:23:41.470 thought we want to leave you mulling over is 00:23:41.470 --> 00:23:44.650 this. We're facing huge challenges, right? Climate 00:23:44.650 --> 00:23:47.829 change impacting agriculture, growing economic 00:23:47.829 --> 00:23:51.170 inequality affecting food access. How much more 00:23:51.170 --> 00:23:54.009 responsibility will fall on figures like Colicchio, 00:23:54.210 --> 00:23:56.869 chefs who have this public platform? Will his 00:23:56.869 --> 00:24:00.309 model become the expectation? Maybe. That combination 00:24:00.309 --> 00:24:02.650 maintaining true culinary craft and integrity 00:24:02.650 --> 00:24:06.769 while also being an active, engaged citizen using 00:24:06.769 --> 00:24:09.660 your voice for political change. That might just 00:24:09.660 --> 00:24:11.599 be the new standard for what it means to be a 00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:13.920 top chef in the 21st century. Something to definitely 00:24:13.920 --> 00:24:15.740 think about. Thanks for joining us for this deep 00:24:15.740 --> 00:24:17.920 dive on the really remarkable career of Thomas 00:24:17.920 --> 00:24:19.779 Colicchio. Yeah, fascinating stuff. We'll catch 00:24:19.779 --> 00:24:20.740 you next time on The Deep Dive.