WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.520 Welcome to the Deep Dive. Today we're jumping 00:00:02.520 --> 00:00:05.820 into the world of John Bernthal. Yeah, one of 00:00:05.820 --> 00:00:09.480 Hollywood's, well, most compelling and definitely 00:00:09.480 --> 00:00:12.640 most intense actors right now. Absolutely. If 00:00:12.640 --> 00:00:14.820 you know his work, you know that energy. Oh, 00:00:14.839 --> 00:00:17.239 definitely. That raw, kinetic feeling he brings. 00:00:17.399 --> 00:00:20.000 He's almost become the face of the, you know, 00:00:20.000 --> 00:00:22.980 the righteous but wounded antihero. Shane Walsh 00:00:22.980 --> 00:00:24.980 in The Walking Dead comes to mind immediately. 00:00:25.280 --> 00:00:28.030 Right. Or Frank Castle. The Punisher. For a lot 00:00:28.030 --> 00:00:30.910 of people, he is the Punisher now. But that tough 00:00:30.910 --> 00:00:32.770 guy image, that's really only part of the picture, 00:00:32.929 --> 00:00:35.070 isn't it? Exactly. And that's our mission today, 00:00:35.130 --> 00:00:36.990 right? We want to trace his whole journey. We're 00:00:36.990 --> 00:00:39.170 charting his evolution, how he went from, and 00:00:39.170 --> 00:00:41.990 he says this himself, a troublemaker, to becoming 00:00:41.990 --> 00:00:45.210 this Emmy -winning actor known for these incredibly 00:00:45.210 --> 00:00:47.329 deep roles. And we're digging into the specifics, 00:00:47.450 --> 00:00:50.109 that method acting approach he has. Which, as 00:00:50.109 --> 00:00:51.850 we'll see, has some really surprising roots. 00:00:52.070 --> 00:00:55.159 Think unconventional education. Think Russia. 00:00:55.259 --> 00:00:57.740 It's wild. And we'll look at how he's taken that 00:00:57.740 --> 00:01:00.500 intensity beyond acting, too, into some really 00:01:00.500 --> 00:01:03.799 interesting offscreen projects focused on, well, 00:01:03.859 --> 00:01:06.180 authenticity. We've got a good stack of sources 00:01:06.180 --> 00:01:08.439 to pull from. Yeah, covering everything from 00:01:08.439 --> 00:01:12.599 his pretty privileged start in D .C. right up 00:01:12.599 --> 00:01:15.430 to what he's doing next. Like co -writing a Marvel 00:01:15.430 --> 00:01:18.290 project. And hitting Broadway. It's this fascinating 00:01:18.290 --> 00:01:20.730 mix, this duality. And pedigree versus passion, 00:01:20.890 --> 00:01:22.790 you could say. Or physical discipline versus 00:01:22.790 --> 00:01:25.769 psychological depth. Yeah. Okay, let's get into 00:01:25.769 --> 00:01:27.629 it. Where do we start? Let's start right at the 00:01:27.629 --> 00:01:29.969 beginning, the foundation. Okay, so when you 00:01:29.969 --> 00:01:32.629 think about actors known for being rough around 00:01:32.629 --> 00:01:35.569 the edges, gritty. Yeah, you often picture a 00:01:35.569 --> 00:01:37.549 certain kind of background, maybe a tougher start. 00:01:37.750 --> 00:01:40.760 Right. But Jonathan Edward Bernthal, born September 00:01:40.760 --> 00:01:44.379 20th, 1976, in Washington, D .C., that assumption 00:01:44.379 --> 00:01:47.159 just doesn't fit. Not at all. He comes from this 00:01:47.159 --> 00:01:50.319 really prominent Jewish family. We're talking 00:01:50.319 --> 00:01:53.599 high achievement, serious philanthropy. And that 00:01:53.599 --> 00:01:56.079 contrast right there between that background 00:01:56.079 --> 00:01:58.700 and the kind of raw intensity he projects on 00:01:58.700 --> 00:02:01.060 screen, that's the first really interesting thread, 00:02:01.120 --> 00:02:03.519 I think. Definitely. Let's look at the family 00:02:03.519 --> 00:02:06.019 context because it's, well, it's significant. 00:02:06.299 --> 00:02:09.560 His father, Eric Lawrence Bernthal, Rick Bernthal. 00:02:09.740 --> 00:02:11.960 Yeah, former lawyer with a major firm, Latham 00:02:11.960 --> 00:02:14.439 & Watkins. And not just successful, but also 00:02:14.439 --> 00:02:17.379 deeply involved in causes. He chaired the board 00:02:17.379 --> 00:02:20.099 for the Humane Society of the United States until 00:02:20.099 --> 00:02:23.939 2019. So a family connected not just to success, 00:02:23.939 --> 00:02:27.020 but to, like, institutional leadership and ethics. 00:02:27.419 --> 00:02:30.900 And that high achiever thing runs deep. His grandfather 00:02:30.900 --> 00:02:34.610 on his dad's side. Marie Bernthal, musician and 00:02:34.610 --> 00:02:36.770 producer. Right. And his brothers are no slouches 00:02:36.770 --> 00:02:39.069 either. No kidding. Nicholas is an orthopedic 00:02:39.069 --> 00:02:41.729 surgeon, professor at UCLA. And Thomas is a CEO 00:02:41.729 --> 00:02:44.590 of consulting agency and famously married to 00:02:44.590 --> 00:02:47.270 Sheryl Sandberg, former COO of Facebook. Wow. 00:02:47.449 --> 00:02:49.610 Plus, their cousin was Adam Schlissinger, the 00:02:49.610 --> 00:02:52.169 musician. Fountains of Wayne. So much great stuff. 00:02:52.639 --> 00:02:55.300 Gone too soon. Yeah, tragic. So this is a family 00:02:55.300 --> 00:02:57.199 steeped in intellectual pursuits, professional 00:02:57.199 --> 00:03:00.099 success, you know, high level fields. And Bernthal 00:03:00.099 --> 00:03:02.319 himself. He grew up in Cabin John, Maryland, 00:03:02.599 --> 00:03:05.080 went to Sidwell Friends School. Which is a very 00:03:05.080 --> 00:03:07.879 prestigious school. Graduated in 95. You think 00:03:07.879 --> 00:03:11.180 presidents, kids, diplomats. Exactly. But despite 00:03:11.180 --> 00:03:13.909 that environment. Bernthal consistently calls 00:03:13.909 --> 00:03:16.990 his younger self a troublemaker. Yeah, he talks 00:03:16.990 --> 00:03:19.150 about having all this restless energy, needing 00:03:19.150 --> 00:03:21.610 something to channel it into. And that really 00:03:21.610 --> 00:03:24.389 sets the stage for his, let's say, nonlinear 00:03:24.389 --> 00:03:27.210 educational path. Totally. He did a stint at 00:03:27.210 --> 00:03:29.569 Skidmore College. Didn't stick. Dropped out. 00:03:29.710 --> 00:03:31.610 And this is where things take a really sharp 00:03:31.610 --> 00:03:34.789 turn. The pivot point. Based on advice from an 00:03:34.789 --> 00:03:37.310 acting teacher, Alma Becker? She saw something, 00:03:37.430 --> 00:03:40.199 clearly. And her advice wasn't, you know... go 00:03:40.199 --> 00:03:43.979 to NYU or Jillyard. No, it was go to Moscow. 00:03:44.060 --> 00:03:46.500 Right. The Moscow Art Theater School. For anyone 00:03:46.500 --> 00:03:48.319 listening who knows theater history, that name 00:03:48.319 --> 00:03:51.219 just pops. It's huge. This isn't just a drama 00:03:51.219 --> 00:03:54.340 school. It's the drama school in many ways. Let's 00:03:54.340 --> 00:03:57.039 pause on that for a second. Why Moscow? What 00:03:57.039 --> 00:03:59.439 does that signify for his training? OK, so it 00:03:59.439 --> 00:04:01.500 all comes back to the method, but maybe not method 00:04:01.500 --> 00:04:04.080 acting the way people casually throw the term 00:04:04.080 --> 00:04:06.620 around in Hollywood. Right. More specific than 00:04:06.620 --> 00:04:09.960 just being intense. Exactly. The Moscow Art Theatre 00:04:09.960 --> 00:04:12.719 School is the birthplace, the institutional home 00:04:12.719 --> 00:04:15.539 of the Stanislavski system. Stanislavski. The 00:04:15.539 --> 00:04:17.839 foundation for so much modern acting technique. 00:04:18.040 --> 00:04:20.879 Precisely. And the Russian school teaches the 00:04:20.879 --> 00:04:24.120 system. It's this incredibly deep dive into psychological 00:04:24.120 --> 00:04:27.899 realism, emotional recall, finding the physical 00:04:27.899 --> 00:04:31.100 truth of a character. It demands absolute commitment. 00:04:32.079 --> 00:04:34.800 Discipline. Total surrender to the craft, really. 00:04:34.899 --> 00:04:37.639 It's all about forging that connection between 00:04:37.639 --> 00:04:39.920 the character's inner life, their psychology, 00:04:40.100 --> 00:04:42.160 and how they physically exist and move in the 00:04:42.160 --> 00:04:44.800 world. And you can see how that kind of intense, 00:04:44.959 --> 00:04:47.360 rigorous system would be the perfect channel 00:04:47.360 --> 00:04:49.259 for that troublemaker energy you talked about. 00:04:49.399 --> 00:04:51.660 Absolutely. Taking that raw energy and funneling 00:04:51.660 --> 00:04:53.980 it into world -class discipline, it makes perfect 00:04:53.980 --> 00:04:55.959 sense in a strange way. But then there's this 00:04:55.959 --> 00:04:58.839 detail from his time there that's just wonderfully 00:04:58.839 --> 00:05:02.040 bizarre. Oh, yeah. While he's deep in Chekhov 00:05:02.040 --> 00:05:04.220 and Stanislavski in this incredibly demanding 00:05:04.220 --> 00:05:06.500 artistic environment. He's also playing baseball 00:05:06.500 --> 00:05:10.259 professionally in Russia. As a catcher for a 00:05:10.259 --> 00:05:12.660 Russian pro team. Think about being a catcher 00:05:12.660 --> 00:05:15.240 for a moment. Right. It's intense physical discipline. 00:05:15.439 --> 00:05:17.720 Total focus. You have to read everything, communicate 00:05:17.720 --> 00:05:20.079 non -verbally, take a beating. It's like this 00:05:20.079 --> 00:05:23.910 perfect. unexpected marriage of the physical 00:05:23.910 --> 00:05:26.449 intensity we see later him doing his own stunts 00:05:26.449 --> 00:05:28.589 and the psychological immersion of the Russian 00:05:28.589 --> 00:05:30.589 acting system. It's almost a blueprint for the 00:05:30.589 --> 00:05:33.110 kind of actor he'd become. And his talent didn't 00:05:33.110 --> 00:05:35.129 go unnoticed there. He was actually spotted in 00:05:35.129 --> 00:05:38.709 Moscow. Yeah, by the executive director of Harvard's 00:05:38.709 --> 00:05:41.430 Institute for Advanced Theater Training at the 00:05:41.430 --> 00:05:44.029 American Repertory Theater, the ART. Which brought 00:05:44.029 --> 00:05:46.029 him back to the States to finish his training. 00:05:46.540 --> 00:05:48.459 He got his graduate -level certificate there 00:05:48.459 --> 00:05:51.860 in 2002. So you have this picture emerging, the 00:05:51.860 --> 00:05:54.079 high -achieving family, the troublemaker past, 00:05:54.480 --> 00:05:57.519 and then this incredibly unique, specialized, 00:05:57.740 --> 00:06:00.540 world -class acting education. It really sets 00:06:00.540 --> 00:06:03.060 him apart. Okay, so 2002, training complete, 00:06:03.259 --> 00:06:05.920 armed with this intense Moscow Harvard background. 00:06:06.240 --> 00:06:09.060 Then what? Then comes the grind. The reality 00:06:09.060 --> 00:06:11.220 of trying to make it. He moved to New York first, 00:06:11.300 --> 00:06:13.279 right? Focused on theater. Yeah, before eventually 00:06:13.279 --> 00:06:16.000 heading out to Los Angeles around 2006, like 00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:18.439 so many actors do. But that initial focus on 00:06:18.439 --> 00:06:20.980 stage work feels really important. It wasn't 00:06:20.980 --> 00:06:23.339 straight to L .A. chasing fame. Totally. The 00:06:23.339 --> 00:06:26.120 sources say since 2002, he did over 30 plays. 00:06:26.899 --> 00:06:29.879 Regionally, off -Broadway, even had his own theater 00:06:29.879 --> 00:06:33.100 company for a while. Fovea floods. It's defunct 00:06:33.100 --> 00:06:35.720 now, but still. That screams dedication to the 00:06:35.720 --> 00:06:38.160 craft. Yeah. He fundamentally sees himself as 00:06:38.160 --> 00:06:40.220 a theater actor, grounded in that tradition. 00:06:40.480 --> 00:06:43.660 And it reinforces that identification as a method 00:06:43.660 --> 00:06:45.740 actor. For him, it's not just a label. It's that 00:06:45.740 --> 00:06:48.699 foundation built in Moscow. But translating that 00:06:48.699 --> 00:06:51.439 stage intensity, that method commitment to screen 00:06:51.439 --> 00:06:54.740 work, that took time. Oh, yeah. The early TV 00:06:54.740 --> 00:06:56.579 stuff is pretty standard for an actor starting 00:06:56.579 --> 00:07:01.060 out. Little guest spots. Boston Legal, CSI, Miami. 00:07:01.540 --> 00:07:04.300 I think I saw he was in a very early How I Met 00:07:04.300 --> 00:07:06.639 Your Mother. Yeah, season one, episode two. blink 00:07:06.639 --> 00:07:09.339 and you miss him. His first real shot at something 00:07:09.339 --> 00:07:12.060 regular was that CBS sitcom, The Class. Right. 00:07:12.339 --> 00:07:14.639 Showed a different side, maybe later, but it 00:07:14.639 --> 00:07:17.399 only lasted one season. Cancelled. So you've 00:07:17.399 --> 00:07:20.120 got this incredibly trained, dedicated actor, 00:07:20.259 --> 00:07:22.779 but mainstream Hollywood hadn't quite figured 00:07:22.779 --> 00:07:24.759 out what to do with that specific brand of intensity 00:07:24.759 --> 00:07:28.360 yet. Exactly. The engine was built, highly tuned, 00:07:28.579 --> 00:07:31.720 just waiting for the right vehicle. That Stanislavski 00:07:31.720 --> 00:07:34.139 rigor needed the right kind of complex character. 00:07:34.379 --> 00:07:37.660 And that character was coming. Okay, so moving 00:07:37.660 --> 00:07:41.339 into the next phase, sort of post -2008, heading 00:07:41.339 --> 00:07:44.279 towards 2009, this is where things start to click 00:07:44.279 --> 00:07:46.720 on screen. Yeah, you see him getting these solid 00:07:46.720 --> 00:07:48.899 supporting roles. He was in Eastwick, briefly. 00:07:49.199 --> 00:07:51.720 And importantly, HBO's The Pacific, a really 00:07:51.720 --> 00:07:54.279 acclaimed miniseries. He played Scrape Manuel 00:07:54.279 --> 00:07:57.000 Rodriguez. Tough character. And that really leads 00:07:57.000 --> 00:07:58.759 into the key relationship, the one with Frank 00:07:58.759 --> 00:08:01.500 Darabont. Ah, yes, the Darabont connection. Huge. 00:08:01.720 --> 00:08:04.199 That's what leads directly to The Walking Dead. 00:08:04.670 --> 00:08:06.949 And the role of Shane Walsh. Which was massive. 00:08:07.209 --> 00:08:10.170 Series regular for the first two seasons, basically. 00:08:10.529 --> 00:08:12.810 Changed everything for him. He brought such depth 00:08:12.810 --> 00:08:14.790 to Shane. That character could have been just 00:08:14.790 --> 00:08:17.250 a standard antagonist, right? Especially in a 00:08:17.250 --> 00:08:20.370 zombie show. Totally. But Bernthal made him compelling. 00:08:20.949 --> 00:08:23.610 Conflicted. You understood his choices even if 00:08:23.610 --> 00:08:25.790 you hated them. He even came back for a guest 00:08:25.790 --> 00:08:29.439 spot later in 2018. Shane was that perfect burnthal 00:08:29.439 --> 00:08:32.740 archetype starting to form. Intense, complex, 00:08:33.240 --> 00:08:37.009 wrestling with loyalty, morality, grief. all 00:08:37.009 --> 00:08:39.250 in this high -stakes environment. And that intensity 00:08:39.250 --> 00:08:41.690 resonated. He got nominated for a Scream Award 00:08:41.690 --> 00:08:44.330 in 2011, breakout performance. Yeah, it was the 00:08:44.330 --> 00:08:47.190 first big kind of mainstream recognition of that 00:08:47.190 --> 00:08:49.570 unique power he had. That Darabont partnership 00:08:49.570 --> 00:08:51.590 was key, wasn't it? They worked together again 00:08:51.590 --> 00:08:54.129 pretty quickly. They did on the TNT series Mob 00:08:54.129 --> 00:08:57.490 City. Bernthal played an LAPD detective, Joe 00:08:57.490 --> 00:08:59.769 Teague. Another short -lived show, unfortunately. 00:09:00.169 --> 00:09:03.129 True, but it cemented him as the guy you call 00:09:03.129 --> 00:09:05.970 for those complex, morally ambiguous figures. 00:09:06.159 --> 00:09:09.100 Law enforcement, criminals, guys caught in middle. 00:09:09.279 --> 00:09:10.840 That's interesting. During this time, he wasn't 00:09:10.840 --> 00:09:13.000 only doing gritty drama. He showed some range. 00:09:13.240 --> 00:09:16.539 Right, like playing Al Capone in Night at the 00:09:16.539 --> 00:09:19.279 Museum, Battle of the Smithsonian, a family comedy. 00:09:19.539 --> 00:09:21.480 Yeah, and he was popping up in serious films, 00:09:21.559 --> 00:09:24.259 too, like Polanski's The Ghostwriter, Rampart. 00:09:24.460 --> 00:09:26.899 He was definitely proving he could fit into prestigious 00:09:26.899 --> 00:09:29.799 ensembles. He had a significant role in Snitch 00:09:29.799 --> 00:09:33.720 with The Rock in 2013. And then, of course, Scorsese, 00:09:33.879 --> 00:09:37.179 The Wolf of Wall Street. Playing Brad. Holding 00:09:37.179 --> 00:09:39.460 his own in that whirlwind of a movie. That says 00:09:39.460 --> 00:09:42.519 something. Then Fury in 2014, the World War II 00:09:42.519 --> 00:09:45.700 tank movie. Playing Grady Kunas, Travis. What 00:09:45.700 --> 00:09:48.100 a cast in that film. Critics really highlighted 00:09:48.100 --> 00:09:51.799 the ensemble. Bernthal, Brad Pitt, Shia LaBeouf. 00:09:52.220 --> 00:09:56.019 They brought this really raw... authentic feel 00:09:56.019 --> 00:09:58.059 to it. You can see that method foundation paying 00:09:58.059 --> 00:10:00.299 off there. That commitment to realism. He was 00:10:00.299 --> 00:10:02.419 consistently working with top directors by this 00:10:02.419 --> 00:10:05.740 point. Denis Villeneuve's Sicario in 2015. Another 00:10:05.740 --> 00:10:08.059 intense role. Yeah, these roles were successful, 00:10:08.200 --> 00:10:11.179 building his reputation. But the one role that 00:10:11.179 --> 00:10:13.960 really, truly locked in his stardom, the one 00:10:13.960 --> 00:10:16.580 that let him unleash the full force of that training. 00:10:16.679 --> 00:10:19.019 Who's still coming. Frank Castle. The Punisher. 00:10:19.360 --> 00:10:22.379 June 2015, Marvel announces Bernthal is playing 00:10:22.379 --> 00:10:25.120 him in Daredevil Season 2 on Netflix. And the 00:10:25.120 --> 00:10:27.200 fan reaction was immediate. People were excited. 00:10:27.460 --> 00:10:29.639 But interestingly, he wasn't initially sold on 00:10:29.639 --> 00:10:31.820 it. No, the sources say he was hesitant about 00:10:31.820 --> 00:10:34.470 joining a big superhero franchise. Which tells 00:10:34.470 --> 00:10:36.370 you something about his priorities, right? He 00:10:36.370 --> 00:10:38.090 wasn't chasing the genre, he was looking for 00:10:38.090 --> 00:10:41.110 good character work. Exactly. What apparently 00:10:41.110 --> 00:10:43.990 swayed him was the quality he saw in Daredevil 00:10:43.990 --> 00:10:47.129 season one. He admired Charlie Cox as Daredevil, 00:10:47.210 --> 00:10:49.870 Vincent D 'Onofrio as Kingpin. He respected their 00:10:49.870 --> 00:10:53.049 work ethic, their performances, so he signed 00:10:53.049 --> 00:10:55.870 on. And his performance, it just blew people 00:10:55.870 --> 00:10:59.129 away. Critics loved it. IGN called it absolutely 00:10:59.129 --> 00:11:02.850 stellar gutting. High praise. But maybe the most 00:11:02.850 --> 00:11:05.049 meaningful compliment came from Jerry Conway. 00:11:05.169 --> 00:11:07.750 The co -creator of the Punisher character. Yeah. 00:11:07.850 --> 00:11:10.409 Conway said Bernthal's version was a favorite 00:11:10.409 --> 00:11:13.190 on -screen portrayal, and the reason why is key. 00:11:13.509 --> 00:11:15.909 What was it? Conway said Bernthal brought the 00:11:15.909 --> 00:11:19.019 pathos underneath the tough guy. Ah. There it 00:11:19.019 --> 00:11:21.940 is again. That depth. Exactly. It connects right 00:11:21.940 --> 00:11:24.100 back to that Moscow training. He wasn't just 00:11:24.100 --> 00:11:25.960 playing the violence. He was playing the psychological 00:11:25.960 --> 00:11:29.639 reason for the violence. The trauma. Using Stanislavski's 00:11:29.639 --> 00:11:32.340 system to ground Frank Castle's brutality and 00:11:32.340 --> 00:11:34.379 his internal pain. That's what made it so powerful. 00:11:34.480 --> 00:11:37.279 So much more than just another action hero. That 00:11:37.279 --> 00:11:40.399 emotional core. And that success led directly 00:11:40.399 --> 00:11:43.019 to the spinoff, right? The Bunisher series on 00:11:43.019 --> 00:11:47.000 Netflix. Yep. Ran from 2017 to 2019. And the 00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:50.120 praise continued for his performance there. Critics 00:11:50.120 --> 00:11:53.419 called it remarkable, intense. Some said it was 00:11:53.419 --> 00:11:55.440 maybe the best performance in any of the Marvel 00:11:55.440 --> 00:11:58.000 Netflix shows. Because of that emotional depth 00:11:58.000 --> 00:12:00.220 he brought to the antihero. And underpinning 00:12:00.220 --> 00:12:02.700 all that is his physical commitment. Right, back 00:12:02.700 --> 00:12:04.840 to the catcher in Russia. He famously prefers 00:12:04.840 --> 00:12:07.059 to do his own stunts on the show. Which isn't 00:12:07.059 --> 00:12:09.419 just about looking tough, is it? It's part of 00:12:09.419 --> 00:12:12.320 the method. Yeah, needing to physically feel... 00:12:12.570 --> 00:12:15.210 the reality of the character's life, experiencing 00:12:15.210 --> 00:12:17.789 it. There's a fantastic example of this commitment 00:12:17.789 --> 00:12:20.549 around that time, the film Pilgrimage, 2017. 00:12:21.070 --> 00:12:23.490 Oh yeah, the Irish action thriller. He played 00:12:23.490 --> 00:12:26.169 the mute. A character with basically no lines. 00:12:27.009 --> 00:12:29.610 So how do you prepare for that using the method? 00:12:29.889 --> 00:12:32.409 He took it to an extreme. He decided not to speak 00:12:32.409 --> 00:12:35.610 at all to anyone on set. Not just during filming, 00:12:35.669 --> 00:12:37.870 but for the first few weeks of production. Right, 00:12:37.990 --> 00:12:41.370 total silence. To create that psychological reality 00:12:41.370 --> 00:12:44.259 for himself. communicating only through presence, 00:12:44.539 --> 00:12:48.500 physicality, internal state, mirroring the character. 00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:51.019 That is serious dedication. Did it work on screen? 00:12:51.419 --> 00:12:54.200 Apparently so. The Hollywood Reporter said he 00:12:54.200 --> 00:12:56.519 basically steals the film with that intense, 00:12:56.759 --> 00:12:59.759 nearly wordless performance. His physicality 00:12:59.759 --> 00:13:03.440 just filled the screen. Wow. That speaks volumes 00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:05.960 about his process. So beyond Marvel, he kept 00:13:05.960 --> 00:13:08.320 busy. The Accountant with Ben Affleck. Wind River. 00:13:08.539 --> 00:13:10.940 Taylor Sheridan film. Edgar Wright's Baby Driver. 00:13:11.450 --> 00:13:13.549 Very stylish movie. And it was around the Baby 00:13:13.549 --> 00:13:15.409 Driver press tour that he made some headlines 00:13:15.409 --> 00:13:19.090 for speaking out. Ah, yeah. About Kevin Spacey. 00:13:19.169 --> 00:13:21.649 This is when the allegations against Spacey were 00:13:21.649 --> 00:13:24.029 breaking. Yeah. And Bernthal worked with him 00:13:24.029 --> 00:13:25.970 on Baby Driver. Right. And Bernthal didn't hold 00:13:25.970 --> 00:13:28.769 back. He called Spacey a bit of a bully on set. 00:13:28.929 --> 00:13:30.950 And said he lost all respect for him after the 00:13:30.950 --> 00:13:33.090 allegations came out. That willingness to just 00:13:33.090 --> 00:13:36.480 say it unfiltered. Even about a huge star during 00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:39.340 a major press tour. It fits that authentic persona, 00:13:39.539 --> 00:13:42.120 doesn't it? The guy who values truth over playing 00:13:42.120 --> 00:13:44.519 the Hollywood game. Seems like it. It felt very 00:13:44.519 --> 00:13:47.820 direct, very much in line with that method commitment 00:13:47.820 --> 00:13:51.960 to, well, reality. And speaking of reality, there 00:13:51.960 --> 00:13:53.740 was a tough personal moment for him around this 00:13:53.740 --> 00:13:56.100 time, too. Yeah, he had to pass on a role in 00:13:56.100 --> 00:13:58.659 First Man, the Neil Armstrong biopic. Because 00:13:58.659 --> 00:14:01.539 his daughter was ill. Right. A clear choice, 00:14:01.779 --> 00:14:04.440 prioritizing family over a big career opportunity. 00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:07.399 Again, it reinforces that sense of him being 00:14:07.399 --> 00:14:09.940 grounded in something real outside the industry. 00:14:10.179 --> 00:14:12.200 He definitely finished out this period strong, 00:14:12.379 --> 00:14:15.100 though. Some great roles towards the end of the 00:14:15.100 --> 00:14:19.340 2010s. Widows. Steve McQueen film. Really good. 00:14:19.559 --> 00:14:21.990 The Peanut Butter Falcon. Yeah. Played Shia LaBeouf's 00:14:21.990 --> 00:14:24.470 brother. Such a heartfelt movie. And then playing 00:14:24.470 --> 00:14:27.350 Lee Akaka in Ford v. Ferrari. A big historical 00:14:27.350 --> 00:14:29.889 figure. Required research. Plus the many saints 00:14:29.889 --> 00:14:33.169 of Newark in 2021. The Sopranos prequel. So by 00:14:33.169 --> 00:14:35.370 this point, he's absolutely established the go 00:14:35.370 --> 00:14:37.509 -to actor for conveying that deep psychological 00:14:37.509 --> 00:14:40.629 pain manifesting physically. The premier anti 00:14:40.629 --> 00:14:42.629 -hero actor, maybe. But as we move into the most 00:14:42.629 --> 00:14:44.769 recent phase, we see him pushing beyond that. 00:14:45.730 --> 00:14:50.100 Transition. Okay, so 2022 onwards. We start seeing 00:14:50.100 --> 00:14:53.460 Bernthal really actively seeking roles that showcase 00:14:53.460 --> 00:14:56.440 more versatility, pushing past that established 00:14:56.440 --> 00:14:58.980 Punisher -type persona. Yeah, like starring as 00:14:58.980 --> 00:15:01.539 Sergeant Wayne Jenkins in We Own This City. Fantastic 00:15:01.539 --> 00:15:04.779 HBO miniseries based on a true story of police 00:15:04.779 --> 00:15:07.799 corruption in Baltimore. A really complex, morally 00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:11.120 compromised character. Deeply dramatic. And he 00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:14.000 also did the American Gigolo series remake. Didn't 00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:16.379 last long, but again, a complex lead role. These 00:15:16.379 --> 00:15:19.279 roles required serious, dramatic chops going 00:15:19.279 --> 00:15:22.059 beyond just intensity. But the role that really, 00:15:22.100 --> 00:15:24.200 truly shifted the perception of his range, the 00:15:24.200 --> 00:15:26.600 one that got everyone talking in a new way. That 00:15:26.600 --> 00:15:29.460 was the bear. Ah, Mikey Brazado, his recurring 00:15:29.460 --> 00:15:32.220 guest role as the late brother. It's such a fascinating 00:15:32.220 --> 00:15:33.980 part because so much of his presence is felt 00:15:33.980 --> 00:15:36.100 through his absence, through the grief he left 00:15:36.100 --> 00:15:38.559 behind. Exactly. And when we do see him mainly 00:15:38.559 --> 00:15:41.059 in flashbacks, the performance is all about the 00:15:41.059 --> 00:15:43.139 vulnerability underneath, the charisma, the tough 00:15:43.139 --> 00:15:45.539 exterior. It's the sorrow. It's like he took 00:15:45.539 --> 00:15:48.929 all that Bernthal intensity. and channeled it 00:15:48.929 --> 00:15:52.009 inwards, into this profound sense of pain and 00:15:52.009 --> 00:15:54.769 loss. It's a total subversion of the Punisher 00:15:54.769 --> 00:15:57.210 archetype. Let's talk about that episode, Fishes, 00:15:57.230 --> 00:16:00.529 from season two. Oh man, that episode, the chaotic. 00:16:01.129 --> 00:16:03.830 christmas dinner flashback right mikey is only 00:16:03.830 --> 00:16:05.909 really in that one episode in the season but 00:16:05.909 --> 00:16:08.409 he's the absolute center of it that explosive 00:16:08.409 --> 00:16:11.009 energy but also the simmering darkness the self 00:16:11.009 --> 00:16:13.029 -destruction it was incredible and the awards 00:16:13.029 --> 00:16:15.529 recognition really tells the story there he won 00:16:15.529 --> 00:16:18.070 the primetime emmy outstanding guest actor in 00:16:18.070 --> 00:16:20.730 a comedy series which he won in 2024 specifically 00:16:20.730 --> 00:16:24.350 for fishes now winning for guest actor is impressive 00:16:24.350 --> 00:16:26.590 enough but winning it in a comedy series category 00:16:26.590 --> 00:16:28.750 for that role it's kind of mind -blowing because 00:16:28.750 --> 00:16:31.720 the role is so fundamentally tragic. Right. It 00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:33.919 shows his power wasn't just about action or grit. 00:16:34.059 --> 00:16:37.340 It was about delivering raw, undeniable, emotional 00:16:37.340 --> 00:16:41.139 truth. He made Mikey's tragedy, the core of the 00:16:41.139 --> 00:16:43.820 show's pain, completely unforgettable. And it 00:16:43.820 --> 00:16:46.679 wasn't a one -off fruit either. No. He was nominated 00:16:46.679 --> 00:16:49.740 for the same award the year before, 2023, for 00:16:49.740 --> 00:16:52.519 the episode Brazil. And he's already got another 00:16:52.519 --> 00:16:55.559 nomination lined up for 2025 for Napkins. So 00:16:55.559 --> 00:16:58.580 that's three nominations, one win, for the same 00:16:58.580 --> 00:17:01.399 recurring guest role. It's undeniable proof of 00:17:01.399 --> 00:17:04.200 his mastery of complex emotional character work, 00:17:04.299 --> 00:17:06.859 even in short bursts. He absolutely broke out 00:17:06.859 --> 00:17:09.079 of any action guy box people might have put him 00:17:09.079 --> 00:17:11.700 in. That Moscow method training, that ability 00:17:11.700 --> 00:17:15.660 to access deep emotional truth, that's what lets 00:17:15.660 --> 00:17:17.839 him pull off a character like Mikey Brazada with 00:17:17.839 --> 00:17:21.869 such devastating honesty. So... His acting career 00:17:21.869 --> 00:17:25.289 is hitting this new peak of recognition, but 00:17:25.289 --> 00:17:27.849 he's also been busy off -screen, hasn't he? Expanding 00:17:27.849 --> 00:17:30.089 into other areas. Very busy. And you can argue 00:17:30.089 --> 00:17:32.150 these off -screen ventures are kind of a natural 00:17:32.150 --> 00:17:34.930 extension of that method actor's quest for authenticity. 00:17:35.329 --> 00:17:37.829 How so? Well, take his podcast, Real Ones with 00:17:37.829 --> 00:17:40.710 John Bernthal, launched in February 2022. Right. 00:17:40.789 --> 00:17:43.019 What's the idea behind Real Ones? It's fascinating. 00:17:43.220 --> 00:17:45.619 He explicitly designed it to give a platform 00:17:45.619 --> 00:17:48.640 to, as he puts it, interesting, authentic people 00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:50.799 living on the front lines. Front lines of what? 00:17:50.960 --> 00:17:53.299 All sorts of things. He talks to police officers, 00:17:53.500 --> 00:17:56.000 former gang members, soldiers, activists, first 00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:59.440 responders, people from really different, often 00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:01.819 difficult walks of life. Getting their unvarnished 00:18:01.819 --> 00:18:04.359 stories. Exactly. The whole point is honest, 00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:07.400 open conversation. He stresses that he's not 00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:09.960 pushing any agenda. It's about dialogue. And 00:18:09.960 --> 00:18:11.599 you can see the connection to method acting. 00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:13.940 there can't you totally think about the research 00:18:13.940 --> 00:18:16.319 a method actor does to play someone like frank 00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:18.759 castle you'd immerse yourself in the world of 00:18:18.759 --> 00:18:21.559 soldiers veterans people who've seen trauma the 00:18:21.559 --> 00:18:26.039 podcast is like formalizing that research process 00:18:26.039 --> 00:18:29.430 but applying it to understanding real life, real 00:18:29.430 --> 00:18:32.009 people. Yeah, it's about stripping away the pretense, 00:18:32.109 --> 00:18:34.210 getting to the core reality of someone's experience. 00:18:34.750 --> 00:18:37.829 It mirrors how he tries to strip away artifice 00:18:37.829 --> 00:18:39.930 in his acting to find the truth of a character. 00:18:40.269 --> 00:18:42.630 It tracks back to that need for authenticity 00:18:42.630 --> 00:18:44.910 we saw drive him to Moscow. That makes a lot 00:18:44.910 --> 00:18:47.289 of sense. And his commitment to making a difference 00:18:47.289 --> 00:18:49.789 goes beyond the podcast, too. He runs a nonprofit 00:18:49.789 --> 00:18:51.970 with his brother, Nicholas. Nicholas, the surgeon. 00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:55.220 Right. It's called Drops Fill Buckets. And they 00:18:55.220 --> 00:18:58.359 describe their approach as impact -driven entrepreneurial. 00:18:58.859 --> 00:19:01.950 Sounds very... Bernthal family, high achieving, 00:19:02.130 --> 00:19:04.710 strategic. It's also very public about his advocacy 00:19:04.710 --> 00:19:07.150 for pit bulls. Yeah, he's a spokesperson for 00:19:07.150 --> 00:19:09.130 the Animal Farm Foundation, really passionate 00:19:09.130 --> 00:19:12.430 about rescuing pit bulls and fighting the stigma 00:19:12.430 --> 00:19:14.329 around the breed. And this is personal for him. 00:19:14.349 --> 00:19:16.890 He owns three himself. And get this, two of them, 00:19:16.950 --> 00:19:18.650 Boss and Venice, were actually in one of his 00:19:18.650 --> 00:19:21.589 movies. No way. Which one? Rampart back in 2012. 00:19:21.990 --> 00:19:25.970 Ah, that's fantastic. Merging his personal passion 00:19:25.970 --> 00:19:28.009 right into his work. A little bit more personal 00:19:28.009 --> 00:19:30.809 life detail. He married Erin Angle back in 2010. 00:19:31.170 --> 00:19:32.630 And she has a connection to wrestling, right? 00:19:32.750 --> 00:19:34.950 Yeah, she's the niece of Kurt Angle, the WWE 00:19:34.950 --> 00:19:38.250 Hall of Famer, and also pro wrestler Eric Angle. 00:19:38.289 --> 00:19:40.690 Small world. They live out in Ojai, California 00:19:40.690 --> 00:19:43.390 now. And important detail for sports fans, he's 00:19:43.390 --> 00:19:45.890 still a diehard Washington Commanders fan. Gotta 00:19:45.890 --> 00:19:48.470 stick with your team. Okay, so looking forward, 00:19:48.670 --> 00:19:51.130 his career is showing no signs of slowing down. 00:19:51.250 --> 00:19:53.829 What's next? The future slate is really impressive. 00:19:54.210 --> 00:19:57.269 A mix of returning to iconic roles and breaking 00:19:57.269 --> 00:19:59.869 new ground. The big one for Marvel fans has to 00:19:59.869 --> 00:20:02.670 be the Punisher's return. Absolutely confirmed. 00:20:03.029 --> 00:20:05.710 He's coming back as Frank Castle. First up in 00:20:05.710 --> 00:20:08.509 Daredevil. Born again on Disney plus art all 00:20:08.509 --> 00:20:11.450 that by. That starts rolling out in 2025. But 00:20:11.450 --> 00:20:13.950 here's the really interesting development. It's 00:20:13.950 --> 00:20:16.230 not just acting anymore. What do you mean? He's 00:20:16.230 --> 00:20:19.369 set to star in and co -write a Marvel Studios 00:20:19.369 --> 00:20:22.349 special presentation focused on the Punisher. 00:20:22.490 --> 00:20:26.289 Wow. Co -writing. Yep. Slated for 2026. He's 00:20:26.289 --> 00:20:28.390 working with the director, Rinaldo Marcus Green. 00:20:28.730 --> 00:20:31.890 That's a huge step. An actor known for such deep 00:20:31.890 --> 00:20:34.529 character immersion getting to actually shape 00:20:34.529 --> 00:20:36.710 the character's narrative future. It's a major 00:20:36.710 --> 00:20:39.089 power move. Shows the respect he commands and 00:20:39.089 --> 00:20:41.390 his investment in that role. He'll also be Punisher 00:20:41.390 --> 00:20:44.400 in the Spider -Man. Brand new day film in 2026. 00:20:44.500 --> 00:20:46.819 He's really cementing his ownership of Frank 00:20:46.819 --> 00:20:49.619 Castle. Okay. Beyond Marvel. Other big projects. 00:20:49.700 --> 00:20:51.940 He's in an espionage thriller called The Amateur. 00:20:52.119 --> 00:20:54.559 And significantly, he's joined the cast of Christopher 00:20:54.559 --> 00:20:57.900 Nolan's next film. Nolan. Wow. That's A -list 00:20:57.900 --> 00:20:59.940 director territory. It's an adaptation of The 00:20:59.940 --> 00:21:02.180 Odyssey. Working with Nolan definitely signals 00:21:02.180 --> 00:21:05.019 his continued status at the very top of the industry. 00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:07.720 And finally, he's going back to his roots. The 00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:10.619 stage. After all those early years in theater. 00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:13.640 He's making his Broadway debut. Spring 2026. 00:21:14.099 --> 00:21:17.200 In a stage adaptation of Dog Day Afternoon by 00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:19.579 Stephen Adly Gruegus, a great playwright. And 00:21:19.579 --> 00:21:21.619 who's he starring with? This is great. His co 00:21:21.619 --> 00:21:25.859 -star from The Bear, Eben Moss Bofrock. Ritchie. 00:21:26.099 --> 00:21:29.220 Cousin. On Broadway together. Yeah. Taking that 00:21:29.220 --> 00:21:31.279 incredible chemistry from the chaotic restaurant 00:21:31.279 --> 00:21:33.480 kitchen in Chicago. Straight to the intensity 00:21:33.480 --> 00:21:36.319 of a Broadway stage in a classic story. That's 00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:38.900 kind of perfect. A full circle moment. Okay, 00:21:38.980 --> 00:21:40.819 so let's try and wrap this up. When you step 00:21:40.819 --> 00:21:42.880 back and look at all the sources, all the pieces 00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:46.420 of his journey, what's the main thing you, the 00:21:46.420 --> 00:21:48.319 listener, should take away about John Bernthal? 00:21:48.759 --> 00:21:51.019 For me, it really comes down to that duality 00:21:51.019 --> 00:21:53.240 we mentioned at the start. This constant interplay 00:21:53.240 --> 00:21:57.319 between restless energy and intense discipline. 00:21:57.640 --> 00:22:00.369 Yeah. He's the product of that rigorous Moscow 00:22:00.369 --> 00:22:03.029 method training, the Stanislavski system. And 00:22:03.029 --> 00:22:05.970 he pours that discipline into these incredibly 00:22:05.970 --> 00:22:08.990 physical, often violent antihero roles. Shane 00:22:08.990 --> 00:22:12.430 Walsh, the Punisher. He makes you feel the psychological 00:22:12.430 --> 00:22:15.329 weight behind the action. But then that same 00:22:15.329 --> 00:22:17.930 commitment to emotional truth, to authenticity. 00:22:19.390 --> 00:22:21.490 That's what lets him deliver these incredibly 00:22:21.490 --> 00:22:24.029 vulnerable, nuanced performances. Like Mikey 00:22:24.029 --> 00:22:26.849 Brizotto in The Bear, earning Emmys for showing 00:22:26.849 --> 00:22:29.829 profound sadness and fragility. So the intensity 00:22:29.829 --> 00:22:32.509 isn't just one note brutality. It's channeled 00:22:32.509 --> 00:22:36.660 into deep. emotional reality. He took that troublemaker 00:22:36.660 --> 00:22:39.519 energy from his youth. And transformed it through 00:22:39.519 --> 00:22:42.740 sheer craft and discipline into this really powerful 00:22:42.740 --> 00:22:45.059 dramatic force. It's been an amazing journey 00:22:45.059 --> 00:22:47.299 to watch. This constant quest for authenticity 00:22:47.299 --> 00:22:50.599 both in his roles and it seems in his life. Which 00:22:50.599 --> 00:22:52.420 brings us to our final thought. Something for 00:22:52.420 --> 00:22:55.500 you to chew on after this deep dive. Okay. Considering 00:22:55.500 --> 00:22:58.460 everything we've discussed. It's history channeling 00:22:58.460 --> 00:23:01.579 that intensity via method acting, doing his own 00:23:01.579 --> 00:23:03.539 stunts, staying silent for weeks on pilgrimage. 00:23:03.799 --> 00:23:05.759 And then launching the Real Ones podcast, dedicated 00:23:05.759 --> 00:23:07.759 to having these unfiltered conversations with 00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:09.960 people from all walks of life seeking their authentic 00:23:09.960 --> 00:23:13.319 stories. What does this constant driving need 00:23:13.319 --> 00:23:16.079 to immerse himself so fully, not just in his 00:23:16.079 --> 00:23:17.839 characters, but in the raw realities of other 00:23:17.839 --> 00:23:20.339 people's lives tell us? Is it possible that for 00:23:20.339 --> 00:23:22.420 Jon Bernthal, the method, this whole pursuit? 00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:26.759 is maybe less about acting per se. And more about 00:23:26.759 --> 00:23:29.599 a personal, continuous, almost systematic way 00:23:29.599 --> 00:23:31.940 of researching the human condition itself. A 00:23:31.940 --> 00:23:33.539 lifelong project in pursuit of truth.