Welcome back to the Deep Dive. Okay, today we're
tackling something, well, it's huge, a really
sprawling mission. Yeah, definitely ambitious.
We're diving into the Guerrero family, specifically
two key figures, Chavo Garo Sr., later known
as Chavo Classic, and his son. Chavo Guerrero
Jr., father and son, two eras, one massive legacy.
It's a lot because you're crossing decades, right?
Chavo, he's pure territory wrestling, a regional
powerhouse. Then Chavo Jr., he's the whole modern
wrestling story. WCW, WWE, TNA, Lucha Underground,
even moving into media now. It's a really complaisant
narrative to weave together. And the achievements
alone are kind of staggering. Chavo Jr., what,
12 major championships? title cruiserweight belts
all over the place yep but seniors record that
nwa america's heavyweight title 15 times 15 times
between 79 and 80 that's just wild it says so
much about that time it really does and we're
going to track all of it from seniors classic
nwa style right through juniors um let's call
them creative character choices oh yeah pepe
the hobby horse we absolutely have to talk about
pepe We do. And the whole Kerwin White situation,
too. Polarizing doesn't even begin to cover it.
So the goal here for you listening is to get
the full picture. We're using all the source
material we've got. We'll follow the timeline,
the big moments, the times they teamed up, the
times they fought. And importantly, that shared
legal history, the lawsuit against WWE. Right.
Which makes Chavo Jr.'s recent return in 2025
even more fascinating. So, yeah, legacy gold
controversy. Let's get into it. Okay, so Chava
Sr., Salvador Guerrero Lanz, born 1949, Mexico
City. He's the oldest son of the legendary Gory
Guerrero. The patriarch of that whole branch,
older brother to Mando, Hector, and of course,
Eddie. Big shoes to fill from the start. Definitely.
He actually started wrestling a bit later, relatively
speaking, 1977 for his pro debut. Yeah, but he
hit the ground running, became a real staple
of the territory system. NWA, Western States,
California was his main base though, right? NWA
Hollywood wrestling, big time wrestling. Exactly.
NWA Hollywood run by Mike LaBelle back then.
That territory was his. And that's where he had
probably the defining feud of his early career.
Against Roddy Piper. Against Roddy Piper, yeah.
Over the NWA America's Heavyweight Championship.
Just brutal stuff. Let's dig into that title
reign again because 15 times in two years, 1979
to 1980. How does that even work? What does that
tell us? Well, two big things, really. One, Chavo
Sr. was obviously a massive draw. You don't swap
a title that much unless people are paying to
see that guy win it back. Right. He moved tickets.
He absolutely did. And two, it shows how the
territorial system used championships. It wasn't
like today where reigns are long to build prestige.
Back then, it was about driving the weekly gate.
So hot shotting the title wasn't a sign of weakness.
It was the business model. Pretty much. Especially
with a hot feud like him and Piper, fans would
keep coming back thinking, okay, this is the
week Chavo gets it back. Or Piper retains or
whatever. Kept the local interest high. Made
him like the perpetual hero or villain, depending
on the week, for that specific audience. Precisely.
And he wasn't just a singles guy. The records
show 11 NWA America's Tag Team Championship reigns.
11. Okay, but the crazy part is who he won them
with. Right. Ten different partners for those
11 reigns. That's insane adaptability. Shows
he could work with anyone. Power guys, speed
guys, technicians. Didn't matter. And naturally,
family was often involved. He teamed with his
dad, Gory. He teamed with his brother, Hector.
So that tag success was baked into the Guerrero
identity right from the start. As the 80s moved
on, he didn't just stay in California, though.
He went international. Yeah, he was doing tours
in All Japan Pro Wrestling, worked Mid -South
Wrestling. Pretty versatile. The Japan stuff
was pretty significant, wasn't it? Feuding with
Onida. Oh, yeah. At Sushi Onida, they battled
over the NWA International Junior Heavyweight
title. Chabo Sr. actually won that twice. Showed
he could hang with the intense Japanese Junior
style. He wasn't just original guy. And the family
thing continued. Later on, back in Mexico, EMLL.
He teamed with Mando and Eddie. Yep. won the
wwa trios championship with his younger brothers
in the 90s they always always found a way back
to each other even when they were feuding other
times the guerrero name was just that powerful
sadly he passed away in 2017 liver cancer right
he was 68 yeah a huge loss but his legacy it
kind of lives on beyond just the match results.
Like the movie appearance, the one and only with
Henry Winkler. That's right. Back in 78, played
a wrestler named Indian Joe. But also more recently,
the Mountain Goats, the indie band. Oh, yeah.
They did that song, The Legend of Chavo Guerrero.
Really cool tribute. Super cool. And maybe more
mainstream, the Netflix show GLOW. Right. They
dedicated an episode to him, the seventh one,
I think, because he was such a big part of that
whole 80s scene. Exactly. It just shows his impact
went way beyond the squared circle. He was part
of the cultural fabric of wrestling in that era.
Okay, so from Chavo Classic, we jump forward.
Chavo Guerrero Jr., Salvador Guerrero IV, born
El Paso, Texas, 1970. And like his dad, gets
into the family business, starts in Mexico May
94, does the New Japan tour early on too, competed
in the Best of the Super Juniors in 96. So got
that crucial international experience before
hitting the big time in the U .S., which was
WCW May 1996. Yep. And it wasn't exactly a smooth
start. His Nitro debut lost Dean Malenko submission.
Ouch. Malenko. Yeah, tough draw. Right. And then
pretty soon after, he gets a U .S. title shot
against Ric Flair on WCW Saturday night. Lost
again. Submission. So right away, he's positioned
as this talented but maybe overwhelmed underdog.
Good heart, but not quite ready. And a lot of
that early story revolved around his uncle, Eddie.
Oh, absolutely. That was the core conflict. Chavo
Jr. was the, you know, the straight arrow nephew.
Eddie's constantly pushing him. Lie, cheat, steal.
Come on. And Bridger's resisting. Trying to do
things the right way. But Eddie's just kept poking
and prodding. Until Chavo Jr. just snapped. Went
crazy, as the storyline put it. And that led
to, well, one of the most memorable, truly bizarre
gimmicks WCW ever produced. Pepe. We've arrived
at Pepe. Pepe the hobby horse. Let's just sit
with that for a second. A top -tier athletic
talent whose main character trait was being obsessed
with a wooden horse on a stick. Oh, was. Something
else. I mean, how did people even react to that
back then? Honestly, it got over. It was so weird.
So unexpected. People kind of had to watch. It
was peak late 90s WCW creative chaos. Pepe wasn't
just a prop. He was like Junior's tag partner,
his best friend. And it all tied into his feud
with Norman Smiley, which led to the incident.
The wood chipper incident. Yes. Norman Smiley,
the heel, takes Pepe. Don't say it. And feeds
him into a wood chipper. On television. Oh, my
God. That actually happened. That was the end
of Pepe. Brutal. And kind of hilarious in a really
dark way. It really was. It perfectly capped
off that whole insane gimmick. But the family
drama wasn't over, even without Pepe. Right.
Batch of the Beach 98. Hair versus hair match.
Chavo Jr. versus Eddie. And Chavo Jr. actually
wins, beats his uncle, gets the big emotional
victory. Should be the end of it, right? You'd
think. But this is Chavo Jr. in WCW. What happened
next? Immediately after, he has this meaningless
tune -up match against Stevie Ray. Loses on,
like, a fluke pin. Seriously? Yep. And Chavo
Jr., completely frustrated, just grabs the clippers
and shaves his own head. Nope. He won the hair
match. Didn't matter. He was so mad, so eccentric,
he just did it anyway. Total self -destruction.
It was kind of... brilliant in a weird way, defined
his character perfectly. Okay, so after the psycho
phase and the self -shaving, where did he go
from there? He actually landed in a pretty successful
comedy stable, the Misfits in Action, MIA. Oh,
yeah. The military gimmick, Hugh Morris was General
Rection. Right. And Chavo Jr. became Lieutenant
Loco. It was silly, but it worked for WCW at
the time. And that's actually where he got his
first taste of singles gold in WCW. As Lieutenant
Loco. As Lieutenant Loco, yep. He won the WCW
Cruiserweight Championship, his first WCW reign,
beat Daphne in a triangle match that also had
Disco Inferno. Wow. From Pepe to LT Loco winning
titles, what a ride. And he won tag gold, too.
The WCW World Tag Team Championship once with
Corporal Cajun, who was Lash LaRue, showed he
could still deliver in the ring, even with the
goofy gimmicks. So what was his final big act
in WCW before the company folded? He actually
won the Cruiserweight title again, beat Mike
Sanders for it, defended it against Rey Mysterio
Jr., which was always a great matchup. Always.
And then he finally lost it to Sugar Shane Helms
at the Greed pay -per -view in March 2001. And
that was basically it for Chavo Jr. in WCW. The
company was bought by WWF just after that. So
WCW folds. WWF buys it. And Chabot Jr.'s contract
comes along with the purchase. He shows up in
WWF initially as part of the alliance. Right.
The whole WCW ECW invasion angle. He was a heel
representing the outsiders. Yeah. But that fizzled
out pretty quick for him. The real game changer
was getting drafted to SmackDown because that's
where he reunited with Uncle Eddie. Los Guerreros.
This time, no conflict. They were on the same
page. Completely. Chavo Jr. fully bought into
the family motto now, lie, cheat, and steal.
And they were so good at it, just natural chemistry,
brilliant timing. They were supposed to be heels,
right? Yeah. But the crowd just loved them too
much. Oh, totally. Their vignettes, the low rider,
the cheating tactics. It was so entertaining
that WWE basically had no choice but to turn
them face. People wanted to cheer for them even
when they were bending the rules or, you know,
breaking them outright. And they backed it up
in the ring. Won the WWE Tag Team titles twice.
That Survivor Series 2002 match stands out. Huge
match. Triple threat elimination. Them against
Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit and Edge and Rey
Mysterio. The fact doesn't even cover it. And
Los Guerreros won. That really put them on top
of the tag division. Won the Wrestling Observer
Tag Team of the Year that year. Deservedly so.
It's the Guerreros. Things eventually went south.
Always seems to happen. Yeah, the sources point
to jealousy. Eddie was getting massively popular,
heading towards the WWE Championship. And Chavo
Jr., well, he resented it. So January 2004, heel
turn. Attacks Eddie after they lose a tag title
rematch. Blames him for holding him back. Classic
wrestling motivation. And then it gets really
interesting because Chavo Sr. comes back into
the picture. Chavo Classic arrives. And sides
with his son against his own brother. Exactly.
Father and son united against Uncle Eddie. And
this leads to maybe one of the weirdest Cruiserweight
title changes ever. Okay, lay it out. No way
out. 2004, Chavo Jr. beats Rey Mysterio for the
title. Standard enough. Right. But then, May
20 at SmackDown. Triple threat match. Chavo Jr.
defending against Spike Dudley and his own father,
Chavo Classic. Wait, his dad was in the match.
Yep. And during the chaos, Chavo Classic somehow
pins. Chavo Jr., accidentally, supposedly. He
pinned his own son to win the title. By accident.
Became the oldest WWE cruiserweight champion
ever. Just pure Guerrero shenanigans. That is
amazing. How long did that last? Not long at
all, actually. Chavo Sr. got fired, like, less
than a month later, June 2004. Apparently for
no showing some house shows. So, historic reign,
but very brief. And a weird ending. So, Chavo
Jr. loses the title eventually, gets drafted
to Raw in 2005. And this... This is where things
take another sharp left turn. Oh, boy. Kerwin
White. Kerwin White. Okay. Explain this character
for people who might not remember or maybe wish
they didn't. Right. So Chavo Jr. completely rejects
his Hispanic heritage, says he wants to embrace
the Anglo -American way, dyes his hair blonde,
wears sweater vests and khakis, drives a golf
cart to the ring. With a caddy. Played by a very
young Nick Nemeth. Dolph Ziggler. That's right.
His catchphrase was, if it's not white, it's
not right. just aggressively stereotypical middle
class conservative caricature made derogatory
comments about other wrestlers, especially Shelton
Benjamin. It was designed purely to get heat
through controversy. Maximum heat. And the sources
say he was willing to push it even further. There's
that story about his pitch to Vince McMahon.
Yeah, this is wild. Chavo Jr. himself talked
about this later. He pitched an idea to Vince
to get the absolute most heat possible for Kerwin
White. What was the pitch? He wanted to come
out dressed as a member of the Ku Klux Klan on
WWE television. Wow. Seriously, that's incredibly
extreme. What was his reasoning? He said he wanted
people to genuinely hate him, to yell we hate
you at him in public. He saw that level of pure
hatred as the ultimate sign of success for a
heel character. He understood that controversy,
however dangerous, equals attention in wrestling.
Did Vince go for it? Thankfully, no. According
to Chavo Jr., Vince rejected it, said it was
too risque, a little too racist for a network.
Okay, well, good call there. But the fact that
it was even pitched tells you a lot about the
mindset sometimes. Just how far someone might
be willing to go for heat. Definitely. An intense
commitment to the gimmick. Maybe to a fault.
So the Kerwin White experiment, as controversial
as it was, it didn't actually last that long.
It was cut short by something far more serious.
Yeah. Real life tragedy completely changed everything.
November 13, 2005. The death of Eddie Guerrero.
And the sources confirmed Chavo Jr. was actually
the one who... Who found him? He was. They were
at the same hotel in Minneapolis. Security alerted
Chavo Jr., and he was the one who went into Eddie's
room. He was obviously devastated. Appeared at
the press conference later with Vince. Just a
horrific situation. And the Kerwin White character,
gone immediately, right? Instantly dropped. Couldn't
continue with that after what happened. Chavo
Jr. came back as himself, wrestling under his
own name, and turned face, channeling all that
emotion. He had that really memorable tribute
match on SmackDown. It's JBL. Yeah, that was
powerful. Used all of Eddie's signature spots,
the three amigos, the frog splash. And the finish.
The chair spot. The ultimate Eddie move. Tossed
the chair to JBL, dropped down like he'd been
hit, got JBL disqualified. It was perfect. Playing
possum, honoring Eddie, not just with the moves,
but with that Guerrero cunning. Fans really connected
with that. But the face run didn't last forever.
The bitterness, maybe the pressure, it came back.
It did. Heel turn at the Great American Bash
2006. Cost Ray Mysterio the World Heavyweight
Championship. Just blasted him with a steel chair.
Oof. Turning on Ray, Eddie's best friend. That's
cold. Deeply personal feud. Chavo Jr. accused
Ray of basically leeching off the Guerrero name
after Eddie died. It got nasty. And then Vicky
Guerrero got involved. Eddie's widow. Yeah, she
sided with Chavo Jr., became his manager, even
hit Ray with a chair herself. Really amplified
the family betrayal aspect. How did that feud
end? It culminated in an I Quit match. Chavo
Jr. won by targeting Ray's knee, injuring him
in the storyline. Pretty brutal finish to a very
personal rivalry. Even as a heel, though, he
kept finding ways to win gold. Back to the Cruiserweight
division. Yep. No way out 2007. Won a Cruiserweight
Open. Pinned Jimmy Wang Yang. That was his fourth
WWE Cruiserweight title reign. Who did he lose
it to eventually? Hornswoggle. Hornswoggle. And
another Cruiserweight Open. Yeah, that happened.
Okay, then. Around this time, though, 2007, he
also faced a setback outside the ring. Right.
He got suspended for violating the WWE wellness
policy. Had to take time off. Do the sources
specify what for? They do. It lists some atropine,
nandrolone, and inatrazol. Received between April
2005 and May 2006. So growth hormone, an anabolic
steroid, and an anti -estrogen. That period,
2005 -2006, was right in that intense post -Eddie
time frame leading into the heel turn. Exactly.
It just underlines the physical pressures these
guys were under, the demands to maintain a certain
physique, to perform at that level constantly.
It points to the environment back then. When
he came back from suspension, where did he end
up? They sent him to ECW. The relaunched WWE
version of ECW. And he joined that big heel group,
La Familia. With Edge and Vickie Guerrero running
things. Right. And that alliance paid off almost
immediately. January 2008, he beat CM Punk for
the ECW championship. Wow. ECW champion. Beat
Punk for it. That's a huge deal. Absolutely.
Finally got a world title in WWE. But the reign
didn't exactly last long. How long are we talking?
We're talking about WrestleMania XF4. He defended
the title against Kane. The match lasted 11 seconds?
11 seconds. King comes out, chokeslam, pin, new
champion, done. Oh, my God. That has to be one
of the shortest world title reigns ever, especially
losing at a WrestleMania like that. Brutal. Talk
about peaking and crashing hard. Wins it from
a future legend, loses it in literal seconds
on the biggest show. That's Travo Jr.'s WWE career
in a nutshell sometimes, just unpredictable swings.
So what happened in his last few years there?
Things seemed to kind of peter out. Yeah, the
momentum really stalled. The sources point to
that feud he had with Hornswoggle in 2009. Okay,
not Hornswoggle again. Yeah. That feud actually
won the Wrestling Observer Award for Worst Feud
of the Year and the Gooker Award for the absolute
worst thing in wrestling that year. Yikes. Hey.
That's not how you want to be remembered. Definitely
not. So after that, it wasn't too surprising
when he asked for his release. Got it in June
2011, 10 years in WWE, and that was the end of
that chapter. Okay, so 2011, Chavo Jr. is out
of WWE. Where does he go next? He hits the global
circuit. First big stop was TNA, Total Non -Stop
Action Wrestling. Showed up there in 2012. And
right away, he's back in his element, tag team
wrestling. Paired up with Hernandez. Yep, big
powerhouse Hernandez. And they clicked pretty
well. Won the TNA World Tag Team Championship
twice. Chavo just always seemed comfortable and
effective in a tag setting. So successful run
in TNA then. Well, it ended in a very TNA way.
You remember the Feast or Fired match? Well,
yeah. The briefcase is one has a title shot,
one has a tag title shot, one has a ping slip.
Guess which one Chavo Jr. grabbed in December
2013. No. The pink slip. The pink slip. Got the
briefcase that fired him from the company. His
profile vanished from their website pretty quick
after that. A truly bizarre way to get released.
Only in TNA. Okay, so after that, Lucha Underground.
lucha underground which was such a different
beast very cinematic very story driven he debuted
there in 2014 and immediately went back to his
heel roots instantly turned on his own partner
sexy star attacked the legend blue demon jr just
established himself as this conniving dangerous
veteran figure right away it fit the lu vibe
perfectly did he win gold there too he did won
the gift of the gods championship in 2016 which
is kind of like their secondary title guarantee
he's a shot at the main belt. And didn't his
dad show up in L .U.? Like, one last appearance.
He did. Chavo Classic appeared during one of
Junior's matches against Rey Mysterio. It was
a Loser Leaves Lucha Underground match. Oh, wow.
High stakes. Huge stakes. And Sr. interfered,
tried to help his son win, turned on Ray. Just
classic Guerrero tactics one last time. So did
it work? Nope. The authority figure, Dario Cueto,
saw it happen, restarted the match, and Chavo
Jr. ended up losing anyway. Had to leave the
temple. A really dramatic exit with his dad trying
to save him at the very end. Man. So after LU,
what was next? He tried promoting, right? Yeah.
He co -founded Nason Lucha Libre, NLL, with Alberto
El Patron in 2019. Got on Mexican TV. But it
didn't last long. No, unfortunately. Sources
say it folded by January 2020. Tough business.
Promoting. He popped up in AEW for a bit too,
didn't he? Managing Andrade. Executive consultant,
technically. Yeah, brief run there. And managed
Bandido for a bit in Ring of Honor. Kept his
name out there. But the really significant shift,
it seems, was moving behind the camera. Using
all that wrestling knowledge in a different way.
Absolutely. This became his major pivot. Fight
coordinator, wrestling consultant for TV and
movies. That became his new niche. The GLOW connection
is pretty cool. Fight coordinator for the Netflix
show. Yeah, 2017, 2018. And like you said earlier,
his uncle Mando trained the original GLOW wrestlers
back in the 80s, so Chavo Jr. working on the
show about them. Nice little historical echo
there. Helped make the wrestling look authentic.
He did Young Rock too, right? Wrestling coordinator
for the show about the Rock's life. Yep, in 2021.
And then a really high -profile gig, consultant
on the movie The Iron Claw. The Von Erich story.
He also played the Sheik in the film. So he's
really carved out this space as the go -to wrestling
guy for Hollywood projects. Plus acting roles
here and there. Yeah, played a character called
El Mayor Domo on Grimm, was on an investigation
discovery show, and other ventures, too. Did
a comic book series, Chaboguro's Warrior's Creed,
even has his own craft beer, Los Guerreros beer.
Gizzy guy. Diversifying beyond just taking bumps.
Smart move. Looking back at both careers, senior
and junior, all those matches, all those bumps,
the travel, you have to think about the physical
toll. Absolutely. Which brings us to a really
significant and kind of difficult part of their
shared story. Yeah. The legal battle against
WWE. Right. This is crucial. Both Chavo Sr. and
Chavo Jr. were plaintiffs in that big class action
lawsuit filed against WWE back in July 2016.
And the core of that lawsuit was about brain
injuries, wasn't it? alleging WWE concealed the
risks of things like CTE. Exactly. Traumatic
brain injuries, the long -term effects. It was
a major challenge to the company, involving dozens
of former wrestlers. And having both father and
son involved. That really highlights the generational
aspect of the physical sacrifice in this business.
Definitely. Filed while Junior was active post
-WWE and while Senior was still alive, put them
shoulder to shoulder legally, confronting the
potential costs of their careers. What was the
outcome of the lawsuit? Ultimately, it was dismissed
by a federal judge in September 2018. Didn't
go forward. But the fact that they were a part
of it, their names are tied to that fight for
wrestler welfare. That's part of their legacy
now. Which makes the latest chapter really, really
interesting. Because despite that history, despite
the lawsuit, Chavo Jr. came back to WWE in 2025.
Yeah, that's the big twist, isn't it? After being
gone since 2011, after being part of that lawsuit.
He shows up, first just seen in the crowd at
a Worlds Collide show in July 2025. First time
back in any official capacity in over a decade.
Right, and then it became clear it wasn't just
a one -off appearance. Reports confirmed he'd
be working with WWE again. And then he actually
appeared in the ring later that year, at another
Worlds Collide. Yep, September 2025 in Las Vegas.
He came out holding a banner. Honoring Eddie
Guerrero's work in AAA, the Mexican promotion.
Wow. So his big return moment wasn't about him.
It was about honoring Eddie. Seems that way.
A really powerful, maybe symbolic gesture. Coming
back to the company where he had so many ups
and downs, where his family achieved so much,
and using that platform to highlight his uncle's
legacy suggests some kind of reconciliation,
maybe? It's complex. Definitely complex. Yeah.
So let's just quickly recap the hardware they
collected between them. It's a mountain of titles.
It really is. Junior ECW title, six Cruiserweight
reigns across WWE and WCW, those two WWE tag
titles with Eddie, two TNA tag titles with Hernandez,
the LU gift of the gods. And Senior. The foundational
stuff. 15 NWA America's Heavyweight Reigns. 11
NWA America's Tag Reigns. Two NWA World Junior
Heavyweight titles. And that one, a memorable
WWE Cruiserweight run. It just shows incredible
range across different styles, different eras,
different types of promotions. And different
types of characters, too. From the series competitor
to... Pepe, to Kerwin White, to the beloved Los
Guerreros member. They could really do it all.
That's the Guerrero hallmark, isn't it? Mastery
of character alongside the in -ring skill. Balancing
that authentic family connection people loved
with, you know, sometimes really out there or
controversial gimmicks. Plus, dealing with the
physical risks that led to that lawsuit. It's
a hell of a story. The loyalty to the business,
the family bond, the willingness to cheat, the
physical cost, the legal fights, and now, the
return. Yeah, seeing Chavo Jr. back in WWE after
everything, especially after being in that lawsuit
with his father, it really speaks volumes about
how deep wrestling runs in that family's blood.
Which leads us right to our final thought for
you, the listener. Considering everything we've
talked about, the triumphs, the tragedies, the
gimmicks, the lawsuit, the return, when a family's
history is so deeply woven into the fabric of
pro wrestling, the good and the bad, what does
it truly take for a legacy to reconcile the financial
rewards of the past with the physical costs of
the future? Something to chew on. Thanks for
joining us for the deep dive.