WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.860 Welcome to the Deep Dive. Today we're diving 00:00:01.860 --> 00:00:04.200 into, well, it's one of the great frettles in 00:00:04.200 --> 00:00:06.459 art history, really. We're trying to piece together 00:00:06.459 --> 00:00:10.000 the life, the identity of a painter who for a 00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:11.960 while was arguably the most important artist 00:00:11.960 --> 00:00:14.240 in Europe. We're talking about Rochere van der 00:00:14.240 --> 00:00:16.519 Weyden. And it's fascinating because, you know, 00:00:16.539 --> 00:00:19.460 his fame back then, it was immense. He actually 00:00:19.460 --> 00:00:22.320 overshadowed Jan van Eyck for a time, got commissions 00:00:22.320 --> 00:00:26.289 from kings, dukes. The whole European elite. 00:00:26.530 --> 00:00:28.870 But then somehow, by the mid -18th century, he's 00:00:28.870 --> 00:00:31.129 almost completely forgotten. Vanished from the 00:00:31.129 --> 00:00:33.390 history books, practically. It is just an incredible 00:00:33.390 --> 00:00:35.850 story. Almost unbelievable, this kind of historical 00:00:35.850 --> 00:00:39.609 amnesia. And the detective work involved in bringing 00:00:39.609 --> 00:00:41.409 him back. Because you look at his status in the 00:00:41.409 --> 00:00:43.710 15th century, he's a foundational figure. One 00:00:43.710 --> 00:00:46.770 of the Vlamzi primitivum, the early Netherlandish 00:00:46.770 --> 00:00:48.630 masters. Right. But almost everything we know 00:00:48.630 --> 00:00:51.090 today is pieced together from, well, fragments. 00:00:51.679 --> 00:00:54.100 Scattered civic records, stylistic analysis. 00:00:54.479 --> 00:00:56.840 It's like reconstructing a giant mosaic with 00:00:56.840 --> 00:00:58.820 half the tiles missing. So that's our mission 00:00:58.820 --> 00:01:00.399 today, isn't it? We're pulling together these 00:01:00.399 --> 00:01:03.780 scattered facts. We want to trace his life, understand 00:01:03.780 --> 00:01:06.900 his incredible international success, and really 00:01:06.900 --> 00:01:10.480 unpack the, what, century -long confusion that 00:01:10.480 --> 00:01:13.640 basically buried his identity and his work. Yeah, 00:01:13.659 --> 00:01:16.299 we're going deep into the archives, figuratively 00:01:16.299 --> 00:01:18.599 speaking, trying to figure out how someone that 00:01:18.599 --> 00:01:22.400 famous could just... And we have to start right 00:01:22.400 --> 00:01:24.620 at the beginning with the most base confusion. 00:01:25.019 --> 00:01:28.000 His name. Exactly. Because that's where the puzzle 00:01:28.000 --> 00:01:31.459 really begins. How does one person end up known 00:01:31.459 --> 00:01:34.840 by two completely different names? Roger de la 00:01:34.840 --> 00:01:37.799 Pasteur and Roger van der Weyden. And how did 00:01:37.799 --> 00:01:40.579 that simple linguistic split manage to obscure 00:01:40.579 --> 00:01:43.099 who he was for so incredibly long? Let's get 00:01:43.099 --> 00:01:45.230 right into that. The names aren't that different 00:01:45.230 --> 00:01:47.810 if you think about the meaning. Pasture and Woyden 00:01:47.810 --> 00:01:51.310 both mean meadow or pasture land, right? One's 00:01:51.310 --> 00:01:53.549 French, one's Flemish. Precisely. And it tells 00:01:53.549 --> 00:01:55.569 you everything about his geography and his career 00:01:55.569 --> 00:01:57.750 moves. So we know he was born in Rogele de la 00:01:57.750 --> 00:01:59.549 Pasture. That's the French version. Yeah. And 00:01:59.549 --> 00:02:01.709 he was born in Tournai. Which is in modern day 00:02:01.709 --> 00:02:04.049 Belgium and was a really important artistic center 00:02:04.049 --> 00:02:07.730 back then. Absolutely crucial. And this was around... 00:02:09.409 --> 00:02:12.710 1399 or 1400. So the French name reflects the 00:02:12.710 --> 00:02:15.250 language spoken in Tournai at the time. And his 00:02:15.250 --> 00:02:17.550 background. We know he wasn't, like, from peasant 00:02:17.550 --> 00:02:20.289 stock. Definitely not. His father, Henri de la 00:02:20.289 --> 00:02:23.409 Pasteur, he was a mètre coutelier. A master cutler. 00:02:23.430 --> 00:02:26.110 Like making high -end knives and tools. Exactly. 00:02:26.110 --> 00:02:29.330 So a respected, successful artisan family. It 00:02:29.330 --> 00:02:32.490 gives young Rogier a solid foundation. And later, 00:02:32.590 --> 00:02:35.669 we know Henry Elizabeth Goffert. Her father was 00:02:35.669 --> 00:02:38.449 a shoemaker. but from Brussels. Okay, so connecting 00:02:38.449 --> 00:02:40.830 him to Brussels early on, even through marriage. 00:02:41.129 --> 00:02:43.349 Right, and they officially settled in Brussels. 00:02:44.009 --> 00:02:46.810 The records show that by October 1435, they're 00:02:46.810 --> 00:02:48.310 there. They were probably established there a 00:02:48.310 --> 00:02:49.849 bit before that, but that's the official date 00:02:49.849 --> 00:02:51.669 we have. And they had children who survived, 00:02:52.030 --> 00:02:54.650 which was quite something back then. Four children, 00:02:54.729 --> 00:02:57.150 yes. Cornelius, who became a Carthusian monk, 00:02:57.229 --> 00:03:00.169 so religious path, then Margaretha, and then 00:03:00.169 --> 00:03:02.560 two younger ones, Peter and Jan. who were born 00:03:02.560 --> 00:03:04.379 after the move to Brussels. And significantly, 00:03:04.680 --> 00:03:07.620 Peter became a painter and Jan a goldsmith. It 00:03:07.620 --> 00:03:10.199 really shows the family embedding itself into 00:03:10.199 --> 00:03:12.080 the artistic and professional life of Brussels, 00:03:12.280 --> 00:03:14.800 doesn't it? And this move, this settling in Brussels, 00:03:14.900 --> 00:03:16.580 that's the trigger point for the name change. 00:03:16.759 --> 00:03:18.560 Right. He moves from French -speaking Tournai 00:03:18.560 --> 00:03:20.979 to the Duchy of Brabant, where Brussels was the 00:03:20.979 --> 00:03:23.479 main city. And where Flemish was the language 00:03:23.479 --> 00:03:27.289 of administration, of daily life for many. Almost 00:03:27.289 --> 00:03:30.449 automatically, Rosalie de la Pasteur gets translated 00:03:30.449 --> 00:03:33.789 into its Flemish equivalent, Roger van der Weyden. 00:03:34.050 --> 00:03:36.770 So it wasn't him trying to hide or anything complicated. 00:03:36.789 --> 00:03:41.009 It was just bureaucracy, linguistic reality. 00:03:41.370 --> 00:03:43.389 Pretty much. Standard practice when you move 00:03:43.389 --> 00:03:46.009 between linguistic regions. But this clarity 00:03:46.009 --> 00:03:48.770 about the name change just throws the next part 00:03:48.770 --> 00:03:51.389 into sharper relief, the really confusing stuff 00:03:51.389 --> 00:03:53.289 about his apprenticeship. This is the bit that 00:03:53.289 --> 00:03:56.050 gets scholars really animated. The aha. Moment. 00:03:56.129 --> 00:03:59.110 Or maybe the ha. The fring -ha moment. Why? Because 00:03:59.110 --> 00:04:01.050 the records from Tournai, they just don't line 00:04:01.050 --> 00:04:03.169 up with how apprenticeships normally worked. 00:04:03.330 --> 00:04:04.729 Okay, lay it out for us. What's the timeline 00:04:04.729 --> 00:04:08.449 problem? Okay, so November 17th, 1426, there's 00:04:08.449 --> 00:04:11.069 a record. The city council of Tournai honors 00:04:11.069 --> 00:04:13.990 a maître chargé de la pasture. They give him 00:04:13.990 --> 00:04:15.889 this gift, eight pitchers of wine. Which sounds 00:04:15.889 --> 00:04:17.850 like a pretty big deal back then, a public honor. 00:04:18.069 --> 00:04:20.569 It really was. It strongly suggests he's already 00:04:20.569 --> 00:04:23.319 recognized as a master. Maestro usually means 00:04:23.319 --> 00:04:25.680 master, either in a craft or maybe even academically. 00:04:25.680 --> 00:04:28.740 He's got status. OK, so he's a master in 1426. 00:04:28.899 --> 00:04:31.800 But then. But then, less than six months later, 00:04:31.899 --> 00:04:35.899 March 5th, 1427, the records show a Rosalie de 00:04:35.899 --> 00:04:38.480 la Pasteur. Note the slightly different spelling, 00:04:38.639 --> 00:04:41.160 maybe indicating younger status or maybe just 00:04:41.160 --> 00:04:43.420 inconsistency formally entering the workshop 00:04:43.420 --> 00:04:46.680 or Robert Campin as an apprentice, a disciple. 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:49.519 Wait, he goes from being honored as a master 00:04:49.519 --> 00:04:51.879 to starting an apprenticeship. At nearly 30 years 00:04:51.879 --> 00:04:53.699 old. Exactly. And he's apprenticing alongside 00:04:53.699 --> 00:04:56.759 Jacques de Rais. And it gets even weirder. The 00:04:56.759 --> 00:04:58.600 records show he only officially gets the title 00:04:58.600 --> 00:05:01.000 of master painter from the guild five years later 00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:03.680 in 1432. So let me get this straight. Honored 00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:06.319 as maestrit in 1426, starts as an apprentice 00:05:06.319 --> 00:05:09.480 in 1427, officially becomes a master painter 00:05:09.480 --> 00:05:12.860 in 1432. That's completely backwards. It totally 00:05:12.860 --> 00:05:15.490 inverts the usual path. Normally you apprentice, 00:05:15.589 --> 00:05:17.689 then you become a master, then maybe you get 00:05:17.689 --> 00:05:19.949 honored by the city council. So what's the explanation? 00:05:20.170 --> 00:05:23.569 If he's already a recognized master, why go back 00:05:23.569 --> 00:05:26.430 to square one, apprenticing under Campin? Was 00:05:26.430 --> 00:05:29.790 Campin just that prestigious or was it some kind 00:05:29.790 --> 00:05:32.069 of legal loophole? Well, Campin was incredibly 00:05:32.069 --> 00:05:34.209 prestigious, let's be clear, a major figure. 00:05:34.550 --> 00:05:37.589 But most scholars think it was probably more 00:05:37.589 --> 00:05:40.509 about the legal side tied to the situation in 00:05:40.509 --> 00:05:42.939 Tourney at the time. How so? Tourne was apparently 00:05:42.939 --> 00:05:45.699 going through some serious crises in the 1420s. 00:05:45.699 --> 00:05:49.180 Political turmoil, economic problems, and the 00:05:49.180 --> 00:05:51.860 guilds, the craft organizations, they weren't 00:05:51.860 --> 00:05:54.579 functioning properly. Their rules were maybe 00:05:54.579 --> 00:05:57.060 in flux or records weren't being kept right. 00:05:57.259 --> 00:05:59.160 Okay, so the apprenticeship might not have been 00:05:59.160 --> 00:06:01.300 about learning painting skills he probably already 00:06:01.300 --> 00:06:03.720 had. Exactly. It might have been more of a legal 00:06:03.720 --> 00:06:06.759 formality, a way to get the official guild paperwork 00:06:06.759 --> 00:06:09.019 sorted out, maybe under Campin's established 00:06:09.019 --> 00:06:11.519 authority, because the normal process was broken. 00:06:11.639 --> 00:06:14.220 It's like needing a specific certification to 00:06:14.220 --> 00:06:16.680 practice legally, even if you're already an expert. 00:06:17.300 --> 00:06:19.459 Administrative theater, as you said. That makes 00:06:19.459 --> 00:06:21.879 a certain kind of sense. What about the other 00:06:21.879 --> 00:06:25.560 theory? That the wine of honor in 1426 was for 00:06:25.560 --> 00:06:28.339 something else, like an academic degree. That's 00:06:28.339 --> 00:06:30.660 another possibility people raise. Maybe the maester 00:06:30.660 --> 00:06:33.160 title wasn't for painting, but for, say, a master 00:06:33.160 --> 00:06:35.980 of arts degree. It's speculative. There's no 00:06:35.980 --> 00:06:38.860 direct record saying he got a degree. But it 00:06:38.860 --> 00:06:41.439 fits with the kind of art he made later. It does 00:06:41.439 --> 00:06:45.050 seem to fit, yes. His work is often incredibly 00:06:45.050 --> 00:06:48.009 sophisticated intellectually. The complex symbols, 00:06:48.230 --> 00:06:50.990 the way he arranges figures, the sheer emotional 00:06:50.990 --> 00:06:54.110 depth. Yeah. It feels like the work of someone 00:06:54.110 --> 00:06:56.550 with a broader education than just craft training. 00:06:56.730 --> 00:06:59.129 So an academic title could explain that. And 00:06:59.129 --> 00:07:01.889 also why the city honored him before his official 00:07:01.889 --> 00:07:04.240 painting apprenticeship. Either way, whether 00:07:04.240 --> 00:07:07.060 it was legal necessity or prior academic achievement, 00:07:07.339 --> 00:07:09.819 the link to Robert Campin is solid. Oh, absolutely. 00:07:10.019 --> 00:07:12.300 The stylistic connection is undeniable. You look 00:07:12.300 --> 00:07:14.660 at the works of Jacques Deray, his fellow apprentice 00:07:14.660 --> 00:07:17.860 under Campin, and you see this clear family resemblance 00:07:17.860 --> 00:07:22.079 between Campin's work, Deray's work, and Rogier's 00:07:22.079 --> 00:07:24.399 early paintings. The way they handle figures, 00:07:24.819 --> 00:07:28.379 light, drapery, it's all connected. Rogier was 00:07:28.379 --> 00:07:30.680 definitely Campin's pupil. But he didn't stay 00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:33.019 in his shadow for long. Not at all. And this 00:07:33.019 --> 00:07:35.259 is what's really remarkable. The analysis suggests 00:07:35.259 --> 00:07:38.600 Roger quickly surpassed Campin. He outshone his 00:07:38.600 --> 00:07:41.600 master, as the source says. And even more surprisingly, 00:07:41.779 --> 00:07:44.040 Roger seems to have later influenced Kant's own 00:07:44.040 --> 00:07:46.769 later style. The student influencing the teacher, 00:07:46.930 --> 00:07:49.670 that's rare. Incredibly rare. It just shows how 00:07:49.670 --> 00:07:52.970 rapidly Rogier developed his own powerful, distinctive 00:07:52.970 --> 00:07:55.829 vision. He absorbed the lessons, then forged 00:07:55.829 --> 00:07:58.189 something new and compelling, so much so that 00:07:58.189 --> 00:08:00.050 even his own master took notice and adapted. 00:08:00.829 --> 00:08:03.170 Okay, so Rozier navigates this apprenticeship 00:08:03.170 --> 00:08:06.050 maze in Tournai, gets his official master painter 00:08:06.050 --> 00:08:08.709 status, and then makes the big move to Brussels 00:08:08.709 --> 00:08:11.670 around 1435. And this isn't just changing cities, 00:08:11.750 --> 00:08:13.529 it's like flipping a switch on his career. It 00:08:13.529 --> 00:08:16.790 just takes off. Instantly. I mean, the very year 00:08:16.790 --> 00:08:19.170 he settles there, 1435, he lands this incredibly 00:08:19.170 --> 00:08:21.550 prestigious job, official painter to the town 00:08:21.550 --> 00:08:24.290 of Brussels, the Stadtschilder. And we really 00:08:24.290 --> 00:08:26.730 need to stress how important Brussels was at 00:08:26.730 --> 00:08:29.449 this moment. This wasn't some minor town. Not 00:08:29.449 --> 00:08:31.350 at all. It was the main residence of the Dukes 00:08:31.350 --> 00:08:33.629 of Burgundy. We're talking about the court of 00:08:33.629 --> 00:08:37.250 Philip the Good. This was arguably the most powerful, 00:08:37.409 --> 00:08:40.289 wealthy, and culturally sophisticated court in 00:08:40.289 --> 00:08:43.629 all of Europe in the 15th century. Think extravagance, 00:08:43.629 --> 00:08:46.970 think influence, think artistic patronage on 00:08:46.970 --> 00:08:49.610 a grand scale. So getting the city painter job 00:08:49.610 --> 00:08:52.789 there? That's major league. It's huge. And the 00:08:52.789 --> 00:08:54.990 position itself seems to have been created specifically 00:08:54.990 --> 00:08:57.029 for him. It wasn't like they were just filling 00:08:57.029 --> 00:08:59.490 a vacancy. They wanted Roger van der Weyden. 00:08:59.629 --> 00:09:02.769 And the plan was for the job to just end when 00:09:02.769 --> 00:09:05.529 he died. Apparently so. It shows how much they 00:09:05.529 --> 00:09:07.669 valued him personally. They weren't just hiring 00:09:07.669 --> 00:09:10.129 a functionary. They were securing the services 00:09:10.129 --> 00:09:13.309 of a sutra star for the city's image and prestige. 00:09:13.629 --> 00:09:16.470 And this status, this official position, it clearly 00:09:16.470 --> 00:09:19.039 translated into financial success. The records 00:09:19.039 --> 00:09:21.000 show he was doing very well for himself. Oh, 00:09:21.019 --> 00:09:23.299 definitely. We have documents showing he owned 00:09:23.299 --> 00:09:25.700 properties, made investments. He accumulated 00:09:25.700 --> 00:09:28.759 significant wealth, which tells you the demand 00:09:28.759 --> 00:09:31.220 for his paintings among the elite must have been 00:09:31.220 --> 00:09:34.299 intense. He was clearly charging top prices and 00:09:34.299 --> 00:09:36.700 getting them. But he wasn't just hoarding his 00:09:36.700 --> 00:09:38.779 wealth. There's evidence of philanthropy, too. 00:09:38.940 --> 00:09:41.000 Yes, and that's important for understanding his 00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:44.059 social standing. He wasn't just seen as a craftsman. 00:09:44.279 --> 00:09:47.039 Records confirm he gave generously to the poor. 00:09:47.220 --> 00:09:51.559 And between 1455 and 1457, he actually served 00:09:51.559 --> 00:09:54.000 as an administrator for a local hospital and 00:09:54.000 --> 00:09:57.559 charitable foundation called Turkistan. So managing 00:09:57.559 --> 00:09:59.799 charity funds, taking on civic responsibilities. 00:10:00.700 --> 00:10:03.019 That suggests a higher status, right? More than 00:10:03.019 --> 00:10:05.460 just a painter for hire. Exactly. It points to 00:10:05.460 --> 00:10:07.080 him being a respected member of the community, 00:10:07.240 --> 00:10:10.240 perhaps bridging that gap between artisan and, 00:10:10.279 --> 00:10:12.059 well, maybe something closer to the intellectual 00:10:12.059 --> 00:10:15.440 class. It fits with that earlier idea of a possible 00:10:15.440 --> 00:10:17.879 academic background, too. Now let's talk about 00:10:17.879 --> 00:10:20.000 who is buying his paintings. We know he's tight 00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:22.399 with the Burgundian court. Yes, Philip the Good 00:10:22.399 --> 00:10:25.250 himself. His family members, the courtiers, that 00:10:25.250 --> 00:10:27.710 was his home base, his primary network, painting 00:10:27.710 --> 00:10:29.649 their portraits, creating devotional works for 00:10:29.649 --> 00:10:31.950 them. That secured his local power base. But 00:10:31.950 --> 00:10:34.769 his client list went way beyond Burgundy. This 00:10:34.769 --> 00:10:36.509 is where his international fame really kicks 00:10:36.509 --> 00:10:39.090 in. Absolutely. His reputation just exploded 00:10:39.090 --> 00:10:41.970 across Europe. We know for a fact his works were 00:10:41.970 --> 00:10:45.029 being exported very early on to major centers 00:10:45.029 --> 00:10:47.309 like Italy and Spain. We're talking about foreign 00:10:47.309 --> 00:10:50.039 aristocrats, royalty. And we have concrete examples, 00:10:50.240 --> 00:10:52.960 like the Miraflores Altarpiece. That's a key 00:10:52.960 --> 00:10:54.860 piece of evidence, commissioned by King Juan 00:10:54.860 --> 00:10:57.960 II of Castile, the King of Spain. He then donates 00:10:57.960 --> 00:11:00.440 it to the Miraflores Monastery near Burgos in 00:11:00.440 --> 00:11:03.320 1445. And the crucial part is the paperwork survived. 00:11:03.759 --> 00:11:06.940 The deed of gift, yes. And it explicitly describes 00:11:06.940 --> 00:11:09.840 the altarpiece as the work of the great and famous 00:11:09.840 --> 00:11:13.399 Flandresco Roquel. So there you have it. a royal 00:11:13.399 --> 00:11:16.500 document from 1445, authenticating a specific 00:11:16.500 --> 00:11:19.220 work and confirming his international fame under 00:11:19.220 --> 00:11:21.279 his name. It's gold dust for art historians. 00:11:21.659 --> 00:11:23.659 His connections in Italy are also really telling. 00:11:23.840 --> 00:11:26.340 There's mention he might have gone to Rome, maybe 00:11:26.340 --> 00:11:29.679 for the Jubilee year in 1450. Yes, there's a 00:11:29.679 --> 00:11:32.120 strong possibility he made a pilgrimage to Rome 00:11:32.120 --> 00:11:35.820 around 1450. He might have been in Italy a bit 00:11:35.820 --> 00:11:38.700 earlier too, perhaps 1449. But what's really 00:11:38.700 --> 00:11:40.799 interesting is the analysis suggests this trip. 00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:43.799 It didn't really change his painting style. Which 00:11:43.799 --> 00:11:45.860 is kind of counterintuitive. You'd think going 00:11:45.860 --> 00:11:48.379 to Italy, seeing Italian Renaissance art, would 00:11:48.379 --> 00:11:50.620 have a massive impact. You would, wouldn't you? 00:11:50.879 --> 00:11:53.419 But it seems Rogier was already such a dominant 00:11:53.419 --> 00:11:56.559 artistic force, so confident in his own style, 00:11:56.799 --> 00:11:59.320 that he wasn't really looking for new influences. 00:11:59.720 --> 00:12:02.179 He was arriving in Italy not as a student, but 00:12:02.179 --> 00:12:04.720 as a celebrated master whose work was already 00:12:04.720 --> 00:12:07.220 known and admired there. His influence was already 00:12:07.220 --> 00:12:09.399 flowing south. And we know the biggest names 00:12:09.399 --> 00:12:12.830 in Italy were patrons. The Este family in Ferrara, 00:12:13.009 --> 00:12:15.669 the Medici in Florence. Exactly. These weren't 00:12:15.669 --> 00:12:17.990 minor nobles. They were the absolute power players, 00:12:18.149 --> 00:12:20.289 the driving forces behind the Italian Renaissance. 00:12:20.629 --> 00:12:23.029 And they were actively commissioning and collecting 00:12:23.029 --> 00:12:25.929 Roger van der Weyden. They saw his northern realism 00:12:25.929 --> 00:12:28.610 and emotional intensity as something essential, 00:12:28.809 --> 00:12:31.070 something powerful. Nothing quite demonstrates 00:12:31.070 --> 00:12:33.090 his status like that story about the Duchess 00:12:33.090 --> 00:12:36.409 of Milan, though. A Bianca Maria Visconti. Ah, 00:12:36.470 --> 00:12:39.259 yes, the Zanetta Bugato incident. It's just astonishing 00:12:39.259 --> 00:12:41.419 when you break it down. So the Duchess of Milan 00:12:41.419 --> 00:12:44.679 wants her court painter, this guy is Zanetta 00:12:44.679 --> 00:12:47.539 Bugato, to get some training from the best. She 00:12:47.539 --> 00:12:50.600 wants him to apprentice with Rogier in Brussels. 00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:54.299 Right. But apparently Rogier is either too busy 00:12:54.299 --> 00:12:57.440 or perhaps just not inclined to take on another 00:12:57.440 --> 00:13:00.450 apprentice easily. So what happens? The Duchess 00:13:00.450 --> 00:13:02.629 has to pull strings, big strings. She gets the 00:13:02.629 --> 00:13:04.730 Duke of Burgundy involved. She gets the Dauphin 00:13:04.730 --> 00:13:07.129 of France, the future King Louis XI involved. 00:13:07.529 --> 00:13:10.350 They both apparently have to write letters, use 00:13:10.350 --> 00:13:12.830 their diplomatic influence. Just to persuade 00:13:12.830 --> 00:13:15.070 Roger van Weyden to accept one apprentice from 00:13:15.070 --> 00:13:17.610 the Milanese court into his workshop. It's unbelievable 00:13:17.610 --> 00:13:20.309 leverage for an artist. It really is. It tells 00:13:20.309 --> 00:13:22.409 you he wasn't just an artist. He was operating 00:13:22.409 --> 00:13:24.909 at the level of international diplomacy. his 00:13:24.909 --> 00:13:27.590 workshop, his time, his teaching. It was a valuable 00:13:27.590 --> 00:13:30.129 commodity that required negotiation between rulers. 00:13:30.409 --> 00:13:32.909 That completely explains why the Italian scholars, 00:13:33.250 --> 00:13:36.169 the humanists like Filarete and Bartolomeo Faccio, 00:13:36.289 --> 00:13:38.769 were writing about him in such glowing terms 00:13:38.769 --> 00:13:42.289 in the 1450s and 60s. Calling him the greatest, 00:13:42.470 --> 00:13:45.090 the most noble of painters. It wasn't just hype. 00:13:45.230 --> 00:13:48.429 His reputation was genuinely immense, built on 00:13:48.429 --> 00:13:50.649 these kinds of high -level connections. And of 00:13:50.649 --> 00:13:53.149 course... the power of the art itself. Okay, 00:13:53.190 --> 00:13:55.450 so we've established his incredible status. Let's 00:13:55.450 --> 00:13:57.350 talk about the paintings themselves. What actually 00:13:57.350 --> 00:13:59.809 defines the van der Weyden style? What makes 00:13:59.809 --> 00:14:02.450 his work so distinctive and influential? Well, 00:14:02.509 --> 00:14:04.029 I think the first thing that strikes you is this 00:14:04.029 --> 00:14:08.629 unique combination of intense emotion, real pathos, 00:14:08.629 --> 00:14:10.990 and sharp naturalism. He's observing from life, 00:14:11.090 --> 00:14:13.710 right? Using models. Absolutely. Meticulously. 00:14:13.750 --> 00:14:16.350 You see incredible detail in textures, fabrics, 00:14:16.649 --> 00:14:19.929 faces. It feels very real, very observed. But 00:14:19.929 --> 00:14:22.029 he doesn't just copy reality. He heightens it, 00:14:22.049 --> 00:14:25.169 especially the emotion. His figures, particularly 00:14:25.169 --> 00:14:27.110 in religious scenes like the crucifixion or the 00:14:27.110 --> 00:14:31.190 lamentation, they express profound grief. Tears, 00:14:31.190 --> 00:14:33.929 dramatic gestures. Yes. But crucially, they always 00:14:33.929 --> 00:14:36.509 maintain a sense of dignity, a kind of statuesque 00:14:36.509 --> 00:14:39.919 gravity, even in their sorrow. It's not uncontrolled 00:14:39.919 --> 00:14:43.480 hysteria. It's deep, resonant human suffering 00:14:43.480 --> 00:14:46.080 presented with artistic control. You mentioned 00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:48.279 statuesque. That's a recurring description for 00:14:48.279 --> 00:14:50.639 his figures, isn't it? It is, particularly in 00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:53.259 his larger works, the triptychs. The figures 00:14:53.259 --> 00:14:56.500 have a solidity, a sculptural quality. They feel 00:14:56.500 --> 00:14:59.980 substantial. weighty this gives his compositions 00:14:59.980 --> 00:15:02.500 a kind of monumental feeling even when depicting 00:15:02.500 --> 00:15:05.320 intense movement or emotion and color his use 00:15:05.320 --> 00:15:07.480 of color is often highlighted oh definitely he 00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:10.480 uses rich warm colors often quite saturated but 00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:12.879 it's not just bold color it's incredibly nuanced 00:15:12.879 --> 00:15:15.080 combined with the expressions it creates this 00:15:15.080 --> 00:15:17.899 very sympathetic feeling drawing you right into 00:15:17.899 --> 00:15:20.139 the scene and technically there's something specific 00:15:20.139 --> 00:15:22.759 about his tonal range yes this is where you see 00:15:22.759 --> 00:15:25.779 the real technical mastery He used an unusually 00:15:25.779 --> 00:15:28.039 wide variety of tones within a single painting. 00:15:28.759 --> 00:15:31.000 Experts who've studied his best works closely 00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:33.440 point out that he rarely repeats the exact same 00:15:33.440 --> 00:15:36.000 shade or tone twice on the canvas. Even for something 00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:39.220 like white cloth? Even the whites. If you look 00:15:39.220 --> 00:15:41.539 at, say, the different linens or garments in 00:15:41.539 --> 00:15:44.840 The Descent from the Cross, each white area is 00:15:44.840 --> 00:15:48.039 subtly different, varied in tone. It avoids any 00:15:48.039 --> 00:15:51.570 flatness, any visual boredom. That level of control 00:15:51.570 --> 00:15:54.110 over color and light is just extraordinary. It 00:15:54.110 --> 00:15:57.190 shows a profound understanding of optics, almost 00:15:57.190 --> 00:15:59.990 obsessive attention to detail. Now besides the 00:15:59.990 --> 00:16:02.789 big religious works, he was also a master portraitist. 00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:05.159 That requires a different skill set, doesn't 00:16:05.159 --> 00:16:07.600 it? Especially when painting the powerful elite. 00:16:08.139 --> 00:16:10.200 Completely different. Portraiture for clients 00:16:10.200 --> 00:16:12.659 like the Burgundian court wasn't just about likeness. 00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:15.360 It was about image crafting, about propaganda, 00:16:15.639 --> 00:16:17.799 really. Flattery was part of the job description. 00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:20.500 Absolutely. The goal, as one source puts it, 00:16:20.580 --> 00:16:22.440 was to give the sitter a handsomeness or beauty 00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:24.820 or interest or intelligence they might not have 00:16:24.820 --> 00:16:27.480 been blessed with in life. Harsh, but probably 00:16:27.480 --> 00:16:29.759 true. So how did he achieve that? What were his 00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:32.580 techniques for idealizing his sitters? Well, 00:16:32.620 --> 00:16:34.820 he typically used the half -length, half -profile 00:16:34.820 --> 00:16:38.019 format. It's intimate, but still formal. And 00:16:38.019 --> 00:16:40.019 then he'd subtly refine their features. Like 00:16:40.019 --> 00:16:43.159 adjusting the facial structure. Exactly. He often 00:16:43.159 --> 00:16:45.360 enlarged the eyes slightly, making the sitter 00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:47.759 look more intense, more intelligent, maybe more 00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:50.360 soulful. He would sharpen the contours of the 00:16:50.360 --> 00:16:52.899 face, giving it better definition. And a really 00:16:52.899 --> 00:16:54.580 common trick seems to have been strengthening 00:16:54.580 --> 00:16:57.940 the jawline. Ah, the strong jawline. Signifies 00:16:57.940 --> 00:17:01.960 authority. Confidence. Precisely. It gives that 00:17:01.960 --> 00:17:04.920 sense of aristocratic bearing, of power and decisiveness, 00:17:05.079 --> 00:17:07.160 regardless of what the person actually looked 00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:09.480 like. It's this combination of subtle adjustments 00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:12.680 that creates that idealized, powerful presence 00:17:12.680 --> 00:17:15.039 you see in his famous portraits. Like Philip 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:17.660 the Good, his wife Isabella of Portugal, or their 00:17:17.660 --> 00:17:20.039 son Charles the Bold. You look at those portraits 00:17:20.039 --> 00:17:22.539 and you see power. Exactly. That's the image 00:17:22.539 --> 00:17:25.619 he was paid to create. Now, despite this incredible 00:17:25.619 --> 00:17:28.079 output and skill, we keep coming back to the 00:17:28.079 --> 00:17:30.319 fact that pinning down specific works definitively 00:17:30.319 --> 00:17:33.559 is tricky. But we do have some anchors. You mentioned 00:17:33.559 --> 00:17:36.619 the descent from the cross earlier. Yes, that's 00:17:36.619 --> 00:17:38.700 considered the defining work, probably painted 00:17:38.700 --> 00:17:41.079 around 1435, right as he's moving to Brussels. 00:17:41.500 --> 00:17:44.160 It's the painting that really announced his arrival 00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:46.720 as a major force, perhaps the most influential 00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:50.400 Norse painting of its time. It's emotional power, 00:17:50.579 --> 00:17:53.980 the composition. It set a benchmark. And then 00:17:53.980 --> 00:17:55.619 there's that fascinating case of the painting 00:17:55.619 --> 00:17:58.319 that got cut up, the Magdalene reading. Ah, yes. 00:17:58.640 --> 00:18:00.660 Yeah. Magdalene reading. It's now in the National 00:18:00.660 --> 00:18:04.099 Gallery in London, and it's just exquisite, a 00:18:04.099 --> 00:18:06.980 fragment, showing Mary Magdalene deeply absorbed 00:18:06.980 --> 00:18:09.579 in a book. It's considered one of the absolute 00:18:09.579 --> 00:18:12.039 jewels of 15th century painting, the detail, 00:18:12.200 --> 00:18:15.299 the calm intensity, the light. It's breathtaking. 00:18:15.460 --> 00:18:18.309 But for centuries, it was just that. A beautiful 00:18:18.309 --> 00:18:21.150 fragment. Exactly. An isolated piece. But then 00:18:21.150 --> 00:18:23.170 through some brilliant art historical detective 00:18:23.170 --> 00:18:26.009 work, mostly in the later 20th century, scholars 00:18:26.009 --> 00:18:27.750 started noticing connections. They looked at 00:18:27.750 --> 00:18:29.809 the wood grain, the scale, the style. And linked 00:18:29.809 --> 00:18:32.670 it to other fragments. And two small heads, one 00:18:32.670 --> 00:18:35.190 of St. Catherine and one of St. Joseph, which 00:18:35.190 --> 00:18:37.509 are now in the Gulbenkian Museum in Lisbon, Portugal. 00:18:38.309 --> 00:18:41.130 By analyzing the wood and the composition, they 00:18:41.130 --> 00:18:43.529 proved conclusively that the London Magdalene 00:18:43.529 --> 00:18:45.470 and the two Lisbon heads were all originally 00:18:45.470 --> 00:18:48.369 part of the same, much larger altarpiece. Wow. 00:18:48.450 --> 00:18:51.410 So a big painting, probably depicting the Virgin 00:18:51.410 --> 00:18:53.910 and Child with various saints, was just chopped 00:18:53.910 --> 00:18:57.069 up. Sadly, yes. Yeah. Dismembered and sold off 00:18:57.069 --> 00:18:59.829 as smaller, more marketable pieces sometime before 00:18:59.829 --> 00:19:03.420 1811. It's a tragic story of an artwork's destruction, 00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:06.299 but also a triumph of scholarship, literally 00:19:06.299 --> 00:19:08.519 piecing the evidence together across museums 00:19:08.519 --> 00:19:10.660 in different countries to understand the original 00:19:10.660 --> 00:19:13.119 work. It's a reminder of how much might have 00:19:13.119 --> 00:19:15.460 been lost, which brings us to the biggest loss 00:19:15.460 --> 00:19:17.480 of all, the work that should have guaranteed 00:19:17.480 --> 00:19:20.440 his fame forever, the Brussels Town Hall Commission. 00:19:20.779 --> 00:19:24.039 The justice of Trajan and Herkenbald. Yes, this 00:19:24.039 --> 00:19:26.960 was his massive civic project. commissioned for 00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:29.380 the Golden Camir, the Golden Chamber of the Brussels 00:19:29.380 --> 00:19:30.920 Town Hall. And when you say massive, you mean? 00:19:31.119 --> 00:19:33.279 We're talking colossal for panel painting at 00:19:33.279 --> 00:19:36.150 that time. Four huge panels, each one likely 00:19:36.150 --> 00:19:40.029 measured about 4 .5 meters high, maybe 15 feet. 00:19:40.170 --> 00:19:42.490 Just imagine lining a room with paintings that 00:19:42.490 --> 00:19:44.450 size. Incredible. And they weren't just decoration, 00:19:44.690 --> 00:19:46.890 were they? They had a specific purpose. A very 00:19:46.890 --> 00:19:49.490 important civic function. They depicted historical 00:19:49.490 --> 00:19:52.690 and legendary examples of justice stories about 00:19:52.690 --> 00:19:55.950 the Roman Emperor Trajan and a local duke, Herkenbold, 00:19:56.130 --> 00:19:59.170 rendering impartial justice. They were meant 00:19:59.170 --> 00:20:02.210 as moral guides, as reminders, for the aldermen 00:20:02.210 --> 00:20:04.549 and judges who conducted city business and dispensed 00:20:04.549 --> 00:20:06.789 justice in that very room. When did he paint 00:20:06.789 --> 00:20:09.430 these? He worked on them over a period, likely 00:20:09.430 --> 00:20:12.490 between 1439 and the early 1440s, maybe finishing 00:20:12.490 --> 00:20:15.210 around 1450. And we know he signed at least two 00:20:15.210 --> 00:20:18.789 of the panels. So a signed, monumental, centrally 00:20:18.789 --> 00:20:20.970 located, officially commissioned work, how could 00:20:20.970 --> 00:20:23.450 that not secure his legacy? Because it was destroyed, 00:20:23.690 --> 00:20:27.140 utterly obliterated. When? How? During the French 00:20:27.140 --> 00:20:30.720 bombardment of Brussels in 1695, Louis IV's troops 00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:33.400 bombarded the city, causing catastrophic fires 00:20:33.400 --> 00:20:35.420 that destroyed a huge part of the historic center, 00:20:35.539 --> 00:20:37.460 including the town hall and these masterpieces 00:20:37.460 --> 00:20:40.180 inside it. Gone forever. So we only know about 00:20:40.180 --> 00:20:42.940 them from written descriptions. Primarily, yes. 00:20:43.079 --> 00:20:46.279 People who saw them before 1695 wrote about them. 00:20:46.920 --> 00:20:49.259 Albrecht Dürer famously saw them on his visit 00:20:49.259 --> 00:20:52.059 in 1520 and was apparently deeply impressed. 00:20:52.750 --> 00:20:55.009 Bazzari mentioned them too. And we have some 00:20:55.009 --> 00:20:57.970 visual evidence from later copies, most notably 00:20:57.970 --> 00:21:01.170 a large tapestry now in Bern, Switzerland, which 00:21:01.170 --> 00:21:04.069 copies parts of the compositions. But the originals 00:21:04.069 --> 00:21:07.250 lost. It's hard not to think how different things 00:21:07.250 --> 00:21:10.009 might have been if that work had survived. It 00:21:10.009 --> 00:21:12.829 was irrefutable proof of his genius, right there 00:21:12.829 --> 00:21:15.769 in the heart of Brussels. Exactly. That destruction 00:21:15.769 --> 00:21:19.190 created a huge void. You take away his most visible 00:21:19.190 --> 00:21:21.390 documented public work, you add the confusion 00:21:21.390 --> 00:21:23.849 over his name we talked about, and suddenly it 00:21:23.849 --> 00:21:26.069 becomes much easier for his identity and body 00:21:26.069 --> 00:21:28.289 of work to get muddled over time. That's really 00:21:28.289 --> 00:21:30.869 the seed of the attribution crisis. This centuries 00:21:30.869 --> 00:21:33.109 -long confusion where historians just couldn't 00:21:33.109 --> 00:21:35.289 quite figure out who painted what or even who 00:21:35.289 --> 00:21:38.069 he was. Right. Because for a long time, there 00:21:38.069 --> 00:21:39.950 wasn't a single surviving painting that could 00:21:39.950 --> 00:21:43.609 be absolutely 100 % tied to him, based only on 00:21:43.609 --> 00:21:46.599 documents. from the 15th century itself. The 00:21:46.599 --> 00:21:48.759 links were often circumstantial or came from 00:21:48.759 --> 00:21:52.039 later records. So modern scholarship had to basically 00:21:52.039 --> 00:21:54.460 rebuild his catalog from the ground up using 00:21:54.460 --> 00:21:57.400 a few key works as anchors. Precisely. The work 00:21:57.400 --> 00:21:59.660 of scholars like Lorne Campbell and Dirk DeVos 00:21:59.660 --> 00:22:02.849 has been crucial here. They focused on identifying 00:22:02.849 --> 00:22:05.930 the handful of works where the provenance, the 00:22:05.930 --> 00:22:08.390 chain of ownership and documentation was strongest. 00:22:08.869 --> 00:22:11.069 These became the touchstones. And which ones 00:22:11.069 --> 00:22:13.849 are they? The core authenticated works? There 00:22:13.849 --> 00:22:15.710 are three main ones that are generally accepted 00:22:15.710 --> 00:22:18.809 as the bedrock. First, the Descent from the Cross, 00:22:19.069 --> 00:22:21.829 the one now in the Prado Museum in Madrid. That's 00:22:21.829 --> 00:22:23.589 the one with the amazing survival story, right? 00:22:23.730 --> 00:22:25.970 That's the one. Its history is incredibly well 00:22:25.970 --> 00:22:28.269 documented, tracing back through Spanish royal 00:22:28.269 --> 00:22:31.430 collections from the 16th century. And yes, the 00:22:31.430 --> 00:22:33.549 story is that when the ship carrying it to Spain 00:22:33.549 --> 00:22:36.450 was wrecked, the panel itself was packed so well, 00:22:36.609 --> 00:22:39.170 probably in a waterproofed quaint, that it actually 00:22:39.170 --> 00:22:41.549 floated and was recovered largely undamaged. 00:22:41.849 --> 00:22:44.549 Incredible. A testament to good packing, I guess. 00:22:44.809 --> 00:22:46.789 It may be a sign of its perceived importance 00:22:46.789 --> 00:22:49.470 even then. It certainly added to its mystique. 00:22:49.650 --> 00:22:51.289 Okay, so that's number one. What's the second? 00:22:51.470 --> 00:22:53.900 The second is the Triptych of the Virgin. which 00:22:53.900 --> 00:22:55.880 is also known as the Mare Flores Altarpiece, 00:22:55.940 --> 00:22:58.279 the one we mentioned earlier, now in Berlin. 00:22:58.480 --> 00:23:00.819 Commissioned by the King of Spain. Exactly. And 00:23:00.819 --> 00:23:05.380 the key here is that 1445 deed of gift from King 00:23:05.380 --> 00:23:09.079 Juan II, specifically naming the artist as the 00:23:09.079 --> 00:23:14.019 great and famous Flandresco Rogel. That contemporary 00:23:14.019 --> 00:23:17.299 royal documentation is incredibly strong. And 00:23:17.299 --> 00:23:19.640 the third anchor piece. That's the Crucifixion 00:23:19.640 --> 00:23:21.599 Triptych, which is now in the Escorial Palace 00:23:21.599 --> 00:23:25.000 near Madrid. Its provenance connects it directly 00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:27.859 back to Rogier himself. It was documented as 00:23:27.859 --> 00:23:30.140 a donation by Rogier to the Charterhouse of Chute, 00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:32.619 a monastery just outside Brussels where he had 00:23:32.619 --> 00:23:35.059 connections, possibly where his son Cornelius 00:23:35.059 --> 00:23:37.519 was a monk. So... These three works, the Prado 00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:40.000 Descent, the Brüllenmeer Flores, and the Escorial 00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:42.339 Crucifixion, they form the undisputed core. They 00:23:42.339 --> 00:23:44.859 form the foundation upon which the rest of his 00:23:44.859 --> 00:23:47.839 attributed work is largely built, using stylistic 00:23:47.839 --> 00:23:50.940 comparison and other, slightly less direct, evidence. 00:23:51.279 --> 00:23:54.500 They are the fixed points. Okay, so with these 00:23:54.500 --> 00:23:57.019 anchors established now, let's go back and trace 00:23:57.019 --> 00:23:59.839 how the confusion got so bad before this clarity 00:23:59.839 --> 00:24:02.380 emerged. How did historians actually manage to 00:24:02.380 --> 00:24:04.740 lose track of this guy? It really started with 00:24:04.740 --> 00:24:08.460 a simple but hugely influential mistake made 00:24:08.460 --> 00:24:10.799 by Giorgio Vasari. The Italian art historian. 00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:13.980 His Lives of the Artists from 1568 was like the 00:24:13.980 --> 00:24:16.579 Bible of art history for centuries. Exactly. 00:24:16.599 --> 00:24:19.180 And Vasari, writing about this famous Flemish 00:24:19.180 --> 00:24:22.000 painter, mistakenly called him Ruggiero da Brugia. 00:24:22.329 --> 00:24:24.890 Rogier of Bruges. Wrong city. Van der Weyden 00:24:24.890 --> 00:24:26.829 was based in Brussels, not Bruges. Completely 00:24:26.829 --> 00:24:29.170 wrong city. But because Vasari was so influential, 00:24:29.329 --> 00:24:32.230 that geographical error stuck. It planted the 00:24:32.230 --> 00:24:34.210 idea that the great Rogier was associated with 00:24:34.210 --> 00:24:36.690 the Bruges. So then when later historians like 00:24:36.690 --> 00:24:39.269 the Dutch writer Carol van Mender came along. 00:24:39.529 --> 00:24:41.809 Right. Van Mender writing his Schilder book in 00:24:41.809 --> 00:24:44.430 1604, he knew that the famous painter Rogier 00:24:44.430 --> 00:24:46.309 van der Weyden lived and worked in Brussels. 00:24:46.549 --> 00:24:49.130 He had local knowledge, Brussels records. So 00:24:49.130 --> 00:24:52.140 he had... conflicting information. Vasari saying 00:24:52.140 --> 00:24:55.180 Bruges, his own sources saying Brussels. Exactly. 00:24:55.519 --> 00:24:57.779 And van Mander couldn't easily reconcile it. 00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:00.119 Maybe he thought Vasari couldn't possibly be 00:25:00.119 --> 00:25:03.119 wrong. So he came to what seemed like a logical 00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:05.660 conclusion at the time, but was historically 00:25:05.660 --> 00:25:08.140 disastrous. He decided there must be two different 00:25:08.140 --> 00:25:10.640 painters. Yes. He basically listed them separately. 00:25:11.259 --> 00:25:13.180 He essentially concluded there must have been 00:25:13.180 --> 00:25:16.200 two major artists, both named Rogier, one based 00:25:16.200 --> 00:25:18.799 in Bruges, following Vasari, and one based in 00:25:18.799 --> 00:25:21.250 Brussels. The identity was officially split in 00:25:21.250 --> 00:25:24.470 two. Wow. Just based on one geographical mistake 00:25:24.470 --> 00:25:26.490 by Vasari. It's like a game of historical telephone. 00:25:26.650 --> 00:25:28.789 It really is. One error gets repeated, then interpreted, 00:25:28.950 --> 00:25:31.230 then leads to another layer of confusion. And 00:25:31.230 --> 00:25:33.390 it didn't stop there. It got even more complicated. 00:25:33.650 --> 00:25:36.869 How? Well, later on in the 19th century, an archivist 00:25:36.869 --> 00:25:38.950 found some records suggesting that the Brussels 00:25:38.950 --> 00:25:42.349 Rogier, our Rogier, had died earlier than people 00:25:42.349 --> 00:25:45.150 had previously thought. This messed up Van Mander's 00:25:45.150 --> 00:25:47.829 timeline even more. So now the dates don't fit 00:25:47.829 --> 00:25:50.759 either Van Mander theory. Right. Which led another 00:25:50.759 --> 00:25:53.740 historian, Alfred Mickels, to propose yet another 00:25:53.740 --> 00:25:56.200 theory. He suggested there were two painters, 00:25:56.359 --> 00:25:59.400 but maybe it was a father and son, both named 00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:02.339 Rogier, working one after the other. Okay, so 00:26:02.339 --> 00:26:05.279 now we potentially got Rogier of Bruges, Rogier 00:26:05.279 --> 00:26:07.980 of Brussels, father, and Rogier of Brussels, 00:26:08.099 --> 00:26:10.720 son. Three Rogier. It was getting completely 00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:13.000 out of hand. Yeah. And then to add one final 00:26:13.000 --> 00:26:15.539 layer of stylistic confusion, the whole Maitre 00:26:15.539 --> 00:26:18.430 de Flamel issue emerged. Oh. Oh, the Master of 00:26:18.430 --> 00:26:21.230 Flamal. This was an anonymous name given to a 00:26:21.230 --> 00:26:23.549 group of paintings, right? Yes. In the late 19th 00:26:23.549 --> 00:26:26.529 century, art historians grouped together these 00:26:26.529 --> 00:26:29.809 powerful, quite realistic paintings, often with 00:26:29.809 --> 00:26:32.910 robust sculptural figures in detailed domestic 00:26:32.910 --> 00:26:35.250 settings. And since they didn't know the artist, 00:26:35.349 --> 00:26:37.829 they gave him this name, the Master of Flamal, 00:26:37.970 --> 00:26:40.190 based on a mistaken provenance for some of the 00:26:40.190 --> 00:26:43.089 works. And how did that connect to Rogier? Because 00:26:43.089 --> 00:26:45.710 stylistically, these Flamel works shared certain 00:26:45.710 --> 00:26:47.990 qualities with Roget's known early paintings. 00:26:48.369 --> 00:26:51.349 That intense realism, the emotional weight, the 00:26:51.349 --> 00:26:53.049 northern character, there was clearly a connection. 00:26:53.410 --> 00:26:56.230 So people started thinking maybe the master of 00:26:56.230 --> 00:26:59.470 Flamel was Roget, just an earlier phase of his 00:26:59.470 --> 00:27:01.730 work. That was a dominant theory for quite a 00:27:01.730 --> 00:27:04.660 while. It seemed plausible that this powerful, 00:27:04.819 --> 00:27:07.819 slightly rougher style was Roger before he developed 00:27:07.819 --> 00:27:10.319 his more elegant, refined manner. It muddied 00:27:10.319 --> 00:27:12.779 the waters even further, trying to define Roger's 00:27:12.779 --> 00:27:15.000 early development. What was the key difference 00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:17.339 stylistically that eventually helped separate 00:27:17.339 --> 00:27:20.109 them? Well, the Flamel works, which we now know 00:27:20.109 --> 00:27:22.849 are by Robert Campa and his teacher, they tend 00:27:22.849 --> 00:27:25.450 to have heavier, more block -like figures, very 00:27:25.450 --> 00:27:28.289 sculptural, very solid, often packed into quite 00:27:28.289 --> 00:27:32.069 crowded, detailed spaces. Roger, even early on, 00:27:32.150 --> 00:27:34.309 tends to streamline those forms a bit, makes 00:27:34.309 --> 00:27:36.769 them more elongated, more graceful, and injects 00:27:36.769 --> 00:27:38.970 that distinctive, refined pathos, that elegant 00:27:38.970 --> 00:27:41.210 sorrow. But the overlap, especially in their 00:27:41.210 --> 00:27:43.630 shared focus on realism, made it hard to untangle 00:27:43.630 --> 00:27:46.210 for decades. So who finally cut through all this 00:27:46.210 --> 00:27:49.700 confusion? Rogier, the Flamel mix -up. It happened 00:27:49.700 --> 00:27:53.720 in stages. A big breakthrough came in 1913. The 00:27:53.720 --> 00:27:57.200 Belgian scholar, Georges Houlin de Loup, convincingly 00:27:57.200 --> 00:27:59.779 argued, and eventually proved, that the master 00:27:59.779 --> 00:28:02.839 of Flamel was, in fact, Robert Campin, Rogier's 00:28:02.839 --> 00:28:05.819 teacher. Okay, so that removed one layer of confusion. 00:28:06.490 --> 00:28:08.910 Campin was Campin, not Roger. Right. And then 00:28:08.910 --> 00:28:11.990 the final synthesis, the grand unification, really 00:28:11.990 --> 00:28:14.950 came with Erwin Panofsky. The famous art historian, 00:28:15.230 --> 00:28:18.109 his big book on early Netherlandish painting. 00:28:18.390 --> 00:28:21.650 Exactly. Published in 1953. Panosky meticulously 00:28:21.650 --> 00:28:24.029 reviewed all the evidence, the names, the dates, 00:28:24.109 --> 00:28:26.890 the stylistic links, Vasari's error, Van Mander's 00:28:26.890 --> 00:28:29.150 confusion, the Campin connection, and he laid 00:28:29.150 --> 00:28:32.049 out the definitive case. Despite all the historical 00:28:32.049 --> 00:28:34.529 noise, all the records ultimately pointed to 00:28:34.529 --> 00:28:37.890 one single monumental artist. Rogier de la Pasteur, 00:28:38.009 --> 00:28:40.289 born in Tournai, who became Rogier van der Weyden 00:28:40.289 --> 00:28:42.529 when he moved to Brussels. One man, two names. 00:28:42.730 --> 00:28:45.690 One man, two names. Panosky finally put the ghost 00:28:45.690 --> 00:28:48.359 of multiple Rogiers to rest. It's just amazing 00:28:48.359 --> 00:28:51.079 it took until the mid -20th century to definitively 00:28:51.079 --> 00:28:53.819 sort that out. But now that he's been, well, 00:28:53.880 --> 00:28:57.160 historically reassembled, his importance is undeniable. 00:28:57.400 --> 00:28:59.539 He's considered the most influential northern 00:28:59.539 --> 00:29:02.180 painter of the entire 15th century. Without a 00:29:02.180 --> 00:29:04.640 doubt. His impact was just... Enormous. That 00:29:04.640 --> 00:29:07.319 style we talked about, that vigorous, subtle, 00:29:07.519 --> 00:29:09.859 expressive painting, as the sources call it, 00:29:09.880 --> 00:29:11.759 it just spread everywhere. Across Northern Europe, 00:29:11.799 --> 00:29:14.519 obviously. Deep into France, Germany. Carried 00:29:14.519 --> 00:29:16.599 by artists who trained with him or saw his work 00:29:16.599 --> 00:29:20.099 or saw copies. But also, as we saw, significantly 00:29:20.099 --> 00:29:23.259 into Spain and Italy, thanks to those high -level 00:29:23.259 --> 00:29:25.880 commissions and his sheer reputation. He essentially 00:29:25.880 --> 00:29:28.240 set the template for religious emotion in Northern 00:29:28.240 --> 00:29:31.069 art for generations. And it wasn't just his overall 00:29:31.069 --> 00:29:34.609 style. He actually introduced specific new ways 00:29:34.609 --> 00:29:37.490 of depicting things, new iconographies. Yes, 00:29:37.569 --> 00:29:40.009 he was a real innovator in terms of what was 00:29:40.009 --> 00:29:43.089 painted and how. Panofsky highlights a couple 00:29:43.089 --> 00:29:46.670 of key things. First, Rogier really pushed the 00:29:46.670 --> 00:29:49.529 idea of depicting patrons within the sacred scene, 00:29:49.750 --> 00:29:52.509 not just kneeling off to the side, but sometimes 00:29:52.509 --> 00:29:55.029 actually participating in the event, like in 00:29:55.029 --> 00:29:56.910 the Madonna and Child with Saints fragments we 00:29:56.910 --> 00:29:59.740 discussed. It blurred the lines between the viewer's 00:29:59.740 --> 00:30:02.099 world and the holy past. Making religion more 00:30:02.099 --> 00:30:04.900 immediate, more personal. Exactly. And related 00:30:04.900 --> 00:30:08.599 to that, he popularized a specific format, the 00:30:08.599 --> 00:30:11.359 devotional diptych. Two panels hinged together. 00:30:11.660 --> 00:30:14.059 Right. Typically, one panel would show the Virgin 00:30:14.059 --> 00:30:16.319 Mary, often half -length, sometimes nursing the 00:30:16.319 --> 00:30:18.400 Christ child, and the other panel would be a 00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:20.759 portrait of the person who commissioned it, shown 00:30:20.759 --> 00:30:23.650 in prayer. facing the Virgin. Ah, creating this 00:30:23.650 --> 00:30:26.490 very direct personal connection between the worshiper 00:30:26.490 --> 00:30:29.269 and the divine. Precisely. It was a portable, 00:30:29.430 --> 00:30:32.029 intimate format for private devotion, and it 00:30:32.029 --> 00:30:34.549 became incredibly popular thanks to Roger. He 00:30:34.549 --> 00:30:36.890 essentially standardized it. And even influenced 00:30:36.890 --> 00:30:38.930 how specific saints or stories were depicted. 00:30:39.210 --> 00:30:42.369 Yes, down to the details. The example given is 00:30:42.369 --> 00:30:44.769 Saint Jerome pulling the thorn from the lion's 00:30:44.769 --> 00:30:48.329 paw. It wasn't a new story, but Roger seems to 00:30:48.329 --> 00:30:50.329 have reformulated it. given it a particularly 00:30:50.329 --> 00:30:53.109 compelling visual form that then got copied widely. 00:30:53.789 --> 00:30:56.130 He had a knack for creating these definitive 00:30:56.130 --> 00:30:59.069 images. So his influence flowed through his own 00:30:59.069 --> 00:31:01.630 workshop, obviously, but also through other artists 00:31:01.630 --> 00:31:03.990 who copied or adapted his style. Definitely. 00:31:04.069 --> 00:31:05.950 His workshop must have been highly productive, 00:31:06.190 --> 00:31:08.730 training assistants and spreading his methods, 00:31:08.869 --> 00:31:11.329 while proving direct master -pupil relationships 00:31:11.329 --> 00:31:14.289 is often tricky with the records we have. Hans 00:31:14.289 --> 00:31:16.410 Memling is usually considered his greatest successor. 00:31:16.859 --> 00:31:19.440 Even if we can't definitively prove Memling studied 00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:22.099 directly under Roger. Right. The documentation 00:31:22.099 --> 00:31:25.440 isn't airtight. But stylistically, Memling clearly 00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:27.799 inherits Roger's grace, his compositional sense, 00:31:27.980 --> 00:31:30.319 his approach to portraiture. He carries that 00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:33.160 torch forward. But maybe even more important 00:31:33.160 --> 00:31:35.900 for spreading the style widely was Martin Schongauer. 00:31:36.099 --> 00:31:39.859 The German engraver? Yes. Schongauer was a brilliant 00:31:39.859 --> 00:31:43.299 painter and engraver. And he deeply admired van 00:31:43.299 --> 00:31:45.799 der Weyden. He translated Rogier's compositions, 00:31:46.339 --> 00:31:49.500 his figure types, his emotional intensity into 00:31:49.500 --> 00:31:51.740 copperplate engravings. Which could be printed 00:31:51.740 --> 00:31:54.640 and distributed far and wide. Exactly. Engravings 00:31:54.640 --> 00:31:56.779 were like the mass media of the 15th century. 00:31:57.779 --> 00:32:00.140 Schongauer's prints circulated all over Europe, 00:32:00.279 --> 00:32:04.059 Germany, France, Italy, Spain. They were hugely 00:32:04.059 --> 00:32:06.359 influential, ensuring that the van der Weyden 00:32:06.359 --> 00:32:08.519 look became the dominant visual language across 00:32:08.519 --> 00:32:10.920 the North, even for artists who never saw an 00:32:10.920 --> 00:32:12.900 original painting. It's incredible. The source 00:32:12.900 --> 00:32:15.259 material suggests that basically every major 00:32:15.259 --> 00:32:17.700 Northern artist of the later 15th century, except 00:32:17.700 --> 00:32:19.619 maybe Petrus Christus, who followed van Eyck, 00:32:19.660 --> 00:32:22.700 shows some trace of Roger's influence. It's a 00:32:22.700 --> 00:32:24.700 powerful claim, but it speaks to just how foundational 00:32:24.700 --> 00:32:28.539 his art became. He set the agenda. And yet. We 00:32:28.539 --> 00:32:30.799 have to come back to this baffling mystery. Despite 00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:32.940 being the dominant influence setting the style 00:32:32.940 --> 00:32:35.920 for a century, his fame just evaporates. It's 00:32:35.920 --> 00:32:38.140 one of the strangest trajectories in art history. 00:32:38.579 --> 00:32:40.980 As we said, he actually eclipsed Van Eyck in 00:32:40.980 --> 00:32:43.400 popularity during his own lifetime and for decades 00:32:43.400 --> 00:32:46.819 after. His fame was solid through the 15th, 16th, 00:32:46.819 --> 00:32:48.960 you know, the early 17th century. But then... 00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:52.440 Then tastes change. Dramatically. The high renaissance 00:32:52.440 --> 00:32:55.319 in Italy, then the Baroque. The artistic mood 00:32:55.319 --> 00:32:58.740 shifts. European taste moves away from Rogier's 00:32:58.740 --> 00:33:02.559 intense Gothic pathos, his sharp realism combined 00:33:02.559 --> 00:33:05.059 with spiritual intensity. They start favoring 00:33:05.059 --> 00:33:07.480 maybe more classical balance, more overt drama 00:33:07.480 --> 00:33:09.640 of the Baroque, different kinds of subjects. 00:33:09.759 --> 00:33:11.900 His style just fell out of fashion. Completely. 00:33:11.960 --> 00:33:14.980 So completely that by the mid 1700s, he was, 00:33:15.079 --> 00:33:17.200 as the sources say, almost totally forgotten. 00:33:17.420 --> 00:33:19.559 It wasn't just that his name was confused. People 00:33:19.559 --> 00:33:21.119 just weren't looking at his kind of art anymore. 00:33:21.319 --> 00:33:24.059 It seemed old fashioned, maybe too severe or 00:33:24.059 --> 00:33:26.759 too overtly emotional in a way they didn't appreciate. 00:33:27.140 --> 00:33:29.339 So it took another couple of centuries for that 00:33:29.339 --> 00:33:32.950 appreciation to return. Yes, basically the 19th 00:33:32.950 --> 00:33:35.369 and early 20th centuries, starting with scholars 00:33:35.369 --> 00:33:38.210 digging in archives, rediscovering records, then 00:33:38.210 --> 00:33:40.589 the careful stylistic analysis, the untangling 00:33:40.589 --> 00:33:43.230 of the Kampen connection, and finally Panofsky's 00:33:43.230 --> 00:33:46.769 synthesis. It was a slow, painstaking process, 00:33:47.210 --> 00:33:50.730 piece by piece, to rebuild his reputation and 00:33:50.730 --> 00:33:53.130 understand his true significance. Hashtag outro, 00:33:53.309 --> 00:33:56.589 Gabins. So when you pull it all together, what's 00:33:56.589 --> 00:33:59.210 the takeaway on Roger van der Weyden? We followed 00:33:59.210 --> 00:34:01.309 him from tournée with that confusing apprenticeship 00:34:01.309 --> 00:34:03.690 and the name change to becoming the star painter 00:34:03.690 --> 00:34:06.390 of Brussels, the stadtschilder dealing with kings 00:34:06.390 --> 00:34:09.429 and dukes across Europe. He was a master of technique, 00:34:09.590 --> 00:34:11.510 that incredible color, the way he conveyed deep 00:34:11.510 --> 00:34:14.010 emotion, the subtle flattery in his portraits. 00:34:14.210 --> 00:34:16.869 But his phenomenal success, his international 00:34:16.869 --> 00:34:20.030 status, it all got buried under layers of historical 00:34:20.030 --> 00:34:23.130 accidents, confused records, Vasari's mistake. 00:34:23.719 --> 00:34:25.800 the destruction of key works, and just the shifting 00:34:25.800 --> 00:34:28.710 sands of artistic taste. But today, thanks to 00:34:28.710 --> 00:34:30.769 all that scholarly detective work, he's firmly 00:34:30.769 --> 00:34:33.170 back where he belongs, standing alongside Robert 00:34:33.170 --> 00:34:35.489 Campin and Jan van Eyck as one of the absolute 00:34:35.489 --> 00:34:37.989 pillars, the three greats of early Netherlandish 00:34:37.989 --> 00:34:40.710 painting. His story is just such a powerful reminder 00:34:40.710 --> 00:34:44.650 of how fragile fame can be, how easily even a 00:34:44.650 --> 00:34:47.050 massive historical figure can be obscured by 00:34:47.050 --> 00:34:50.150 time and misinformation. He reached the absolute 00:34:50.150 --> 00:34:53.150 pinnacle of success in his day, yet his identity 00:34:53.150 --> 00:34:55.469 basically had to be reconstructed centuries later. 00:34:55.630 --> 00:34:58.070 It's quite humbling, really. Which leads us to 00:34:58.070 --> 00:35:00.050 a final thought, something for you, the listener, 00:35:00.170 --> 00:35:03.489 to consider. We talked about that huge lost masterpiece, 00:35:03.909 --> 00:35:07.269 The Justice of Trajan and Herkenwald. Four enormous 00:35:07.269 --> 00:35:10.030 panels praised by everyone who saw them, holding 00:35:10.030 --> 00:35:12.130 pride of place in the Brussels Town Hall for 00:35:12.130 --> 00:35:15.150 over 200 years. That visual anchor of his public 00:35:15.150 --> 00:35:17.630 achievement. Exactly. So here's the question. 00:35:18.119 --> 00:35:21.199 If that single, massive, undeniable work hadn't 00:35:21.199 --> 00:35:24.639 been destroyed in that bombardment in 1695, if 00:35:24.639 --> 00:35:26.860 it had survived, standing there as constant visible 00:35:26.860 --> 00:35:30.440 proof of his genius and status, would Roji Randorhabban's 00:35:30.440 --> 00:35:32.880 reputation have ever faded? Would historians 00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:35.000 have been forced to figure out the name Confusion 00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:37.460 much, much sooner, simply because the evidence 00:35:37.460 --> 00:35:39.159 of his greatness was too big to ignore?