WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.040 Okay, let's unpack this. So today we're diving 00:00:03.040 --> 00:00:06.960 into Mark Spitz and his career is, well, it's 00:00:06.960 --> 00:00:09.199 kind of a fascinating cultural paradox, isn't 00:00:09.199 --> 00:00:11.240 it? It really is. You look at what he produced 00:00:11.240 --> 00:00:15.859 and wow, here's someone who is totally comfortable, 00:00:16.079 --> 00:00:19.140 totally authoritative at like the absolute peak 00:00:19.140 --> 00:00:21.559 of mainstream rock writing. Right, the big leagues. 00:00:21.780 --> 00:00:24.379 Yeah, exactly. But then also at the same time, 00:00:24.379 --> 00:00:27.559 deep in the, you know, the... gritty, low budget 00:00:27.559 --> 00:00:30.000 world of New York's underground theater. It's 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:32.159 an incredible ability bridging those worlds. 00:00:32.200 --> 00:00:34.359 We're talking about an American writer born in 00:00:34.359 --> 00:00:36.560 Far Rockaway, Queens. Right. Bennington College 00:00:36.560 --> 00:00:38.899 guy. Yeah. And he was a senior music journalist, 00:00:38.960 --> 00:00:42.259 but also this this acclaimed playwright. It's 00:00:42.259 --> 00:00:44.939 wild. He could get deep access to Mick Jagger. 00:00:44.960 --> 00:00:47.079 Uh -huh. The big biography. And then like the 00:00:47.079 --> 00:00:49.859 next week, he's premiering some raw punk inspired 00:00:49.859 --> 00:00:52.200 play down on the Lower East Side. It's quite 00:00:52.200 --> 00:00:54.579 the combination. Yeah, just for clarity, a quick 00:00:54.579 --> 00:00:56.600 point for anyone maybe Googling right now. This 00:00:56.600 --> 00:00:59.399 is M .A .R .C. Spitz. The writer, the playwright. 00:00:59.520 --> 00:01:02.259 Not Mark Spitz, the swimmer. Legendary, but different 00:01:02.259 --> 00:01:04.939 guy entirely. Totally different guy. Our Mark 00:01:04.939 --> 00:01:09.260 Spitz, he really dedicated his life to documenting 00:01:09.260 --> 00:01:11.939 rock and roll popular culture. And specifically. 00:01:12.700 --> 00:01:14.879 Kind of where that culture smashed into New York 00:01:14.879 --> 00:01:16.980 City. Yeah, exactly. And I think that's the central 00:01:16.980 --> 00:01:19.120 theme for this deep dive, that versatility you 00:01:19.120 --> 00:01:21.719 mentioned. Yeah, he had this really rare skill 00:01:21.719 --> 00:01:25.060 treating, you know, the fleeting stuff, the subcultures, 00:01:25.060 --> 00:01:28.280 and then the super famous people, treating it 00:01:28.280 --> 00:01:29.939 all with the same kind of critical seriousness. 00:01:30.180 --> 00:01:33.200 He could capture the feel, the ethos of these 00:01:33.200 --> 00:01:35.420 really niche scenes. But he was still a regular 00:01:35.420 --> 00:01:38.620 influential voice in, you know, Vanity Fair or 00:01:38.620 --> 00:01:41.739 Spin. High profile media. Okay, so let's start 00:01:41.739 --> 00:01:44.140 where most people probably knew him first. Section 00:01:44.140 --> 00:01:47.379 one. The big time rock journalist. The biographer. 00:01:47.659 --> 00:01:49.379 Yeah, this is where he really built his rep. 00:01:49.459 --> 00:01:52.459 His main platform. Huge. Senior writer at Spin. 00:01:52.760 --> 00:01:54.640 I mean, that's pretty central to music journalism. 00:01:54.859 --> 00:01:57.280 Especially then. Absolutely. But his writing, 00:01:57.340 --> 00:01:59.319 it went way beyond just Spin, didn't it? His 00:01:59.319 --> 00:02:01.959 reach was pretty massive. Oh, totally. If you 00:02:01.959 --> 00:02:03.500 look at where his byline popped up, it's like 00:02:03.500 --> 00:02:06.239 a master class in critical access. He was a contributing 00:02:06.239 --> 00:02:08.699 music writer for Vanity Fair. Which says a lot, 00:02:08.759 --> 00:02:11.759 right? Handling those glossy, in -depth features 00:02:11.759 --> 00:02:14.780 on huge stars. Definitely. Yeah. But he also 00:02:14.780 --> 00:02:18.219 wrote for the New York Times, Maxim, publications 00:02:18.219 --> 00:02:21.080 like Harp and Blender, even the New York Post. 00:02:21.599 --> 00:02:23.960 So he could really shift gears. Highbrow critique 00:02:23.960 --> 00:02:26.520 one minute, accessible pop coverage the next. 00:02:26.659 --> 00:02:28.659 Exactly. He moved between them pretty seamlessly. 00:02:28.900 --> 00:02:31.659 And that platform, that credibility, it obviously 00:02:31.659 --> 00:02:34.259 let him tackle some major book projects, some 00:02:34.259 --> 00:02:36.960 really comprehensive rock biographies. Yeah, 00:02:36.979 --> 00:02:39.560 these weren't just like quick cash -ins. These 00:02:39.560 --> 00:02:41.719 were serious works that kind of defined these 00:02:41.719 --> 00:02:44.500 huge figures for a generation. They really became 00:02:44.500 --> 00:02:46.259 standard reading for fans. Can you give us the 00:02:46.259 --> 00:02:49.360 main ones? Sure. Well, there's Bowie, a biography, 00:02:49.580 --> 00:02:53.219 and Jagger. Rebel, rock star, rambler, rogue, 00:02:53.360 --> 00:02:55.900 just those two alone really cemented his reputation, 00:02:56.159 --> 00:02:58.080 you know. Capturing the scale, the mythology 00:02:58.080 --> 00:03:00.280 of music's giants. The heavy hitters. For sure. 00:03:00.759 --> 00:03:03.199 But he didn't just stick with the classic rock 00:03:03.199 --> 00:03:05.740 icons. He was also really important in documenting, 00:03:05.740 --> 00:03:08.740 like, newer punk history. He wrote Nobody Likes 00:03:08.740 --> 00:03:11.479 You, Inside the Turbulent Life, Times, and Music 00:03:11.479 --> 00:03:13.919 of Green Day. Ah, interesting. And I remember 00:03:13.919 --> 00:03:16.120 he also did that L .A. punk book, right? Co -author. 00:03:16.180 --> 00:03:18.219 Yeah, that's crucial. We got the neutron bomb, 00:03:18.419 --> 00:03:20.900 the untold story of L .A. punk. He wrote that 00:03:20.900 --> 00:03:22.580 with Brendan Mullen. And that shows his dedication, 00:03:22.840 --> 00:03:25.780 doesn't it? Capturing the authentic kind of gritty 00:03:25.780 --> 00:03:28.240 origins of a scene, not just the stadium tours 00:03:28.240 --> 00:03:30.319 and platinum records. Absolutely. It shows he 00:03:30.319 --> 00:03:32.060 cared about the roots as much as the results. 00:03:32.319 --> 00:03:36.520 So what really speaks to the the authority of 00:03:36.520 --> 00:03:39.460 these biographies? How are they received? Well, 00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:41.879 the global impact is pretty telling. These books, 00:03:41.939 --> 00:03:44.120 they weren't just big in the U .S. They were 00:03:44.120 --> 00:03:46.759 seen as definitive international. I will. Yeah. 00:03:46.860 --> 00:03:48.960 Translated and published in French, Danish, German, 00:03:49.060 --> 00:03:52.139 Dutch. He was genuinely shaping how rock history 00:03:52.139 --> 00:03:54.840 was understood, you know, worldwide. OK, here's 00:03:54.840 --> 00:03:56.379 where it gets really interesting for me, though. 00:03:56.460 --> 00:04:00.240 This shift. How does this same guy, this rigorous 00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:03.539 journalist with top level access, the one trusted 00:04:03.539 --> 00:04:05.719 to write the definitive story on Jagger. Right. 00:04:05.800 --> 00:04:08.479 How does he then spend his evenings becoming 00:04:08.479 --> 00:04:12.039 this like essential player in a super niche, 00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:15.139 tiny downtown New York theater scene? Doesn't 00:04:15.139 --> 00:04:17.379 that. I don't know, risk making him seem like 00:04:17.379 --> 00:04:20.000 he's just dabbling, like a dilettante. That's 00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:21.819 the tension, isn't it? That's the core of his 00:04:21.819 --> 00:04:24.100 whole legacy, I think. And that's what we should 00:04:24.100 --> 00:04:27.660 dive into now. Section two, Mark Spitz, the downtown 00:04:27.660 --> 00:04:30.759 playwright. Okay, so where did this start? It 00:04:30.759 --> 00:04:32.639 really came out of the Ludlow Street scene. This 00:04:32.639 --> 00:04:35.339 was starting around 1998, and it centered on 00:04:35.339 --> 00:04:38.779 this venue called Totokan Nada. Totokan Nada. 00:04:38.879 --> 00:04:40.399 Okay, for listeners who maybe aren't familiar 00:04:40.399 --> 00:04:43.160 with that whole New York scene back then. What 00:04:43.160 --> 00:04:46.100 does downtown theater actually mean here? What's 00:04:46.100 --> 00:04:48.839 the vibe? That's really crucial context. We're 00:04:48.839 --> 00:04:51.620 talking Lower East Side, late 90s, early 2000s. 00:04:51.639 --> 00:04:56.060 It was the absolute epicenter of raw, low -budget, 00:04:56.060 --> 00:04:59.160 often pretty experimental theater. It was completely 00:04:59.160 --> 00:05:02.160 disconnected from the polish of Broadway or even 00:05:02.160 --> 00:05:04.519 established off -Broadway houses. Right, no big 00:05:04.519 --> 00:05:07.720 budgets, no velvet seats. None of that. The work 00:05:07.720 --> 00:05:10.939 was often loud, visceral. It spoke directly to 00:05:10.939 --> 00:05:12.560 the counterculture of that moment. It was kind 00:05:12.560 --> 00:05:14.839 of like punk rock, but, you know, adapted for 00:05:14.839 --> 00:05:17.639 the stage. Ah, OK. That helps connect the dots. 00:05:17.660 --> 00:05:19.759 So the aesthetic actually lines up with the music 00:05:19.759 --> 00:05:21.339 he was covering. Absolutely. It feels like a 00:05:21.339 --> 00:05:23.699 direct theatrical extension of the stuff he was 00:05:23.699 --> 00:05:26.420 writing about in Spin or Neutron Bomb. Makes 00:05:26.420 --> 00:05:29.689 sense. And the play titles themselves, they totally 00:05:29.689 --> 00:05:33.430 reflect that raw, rock and roll infused satire. 00:05:33.449 --> 00:05:36.629 Things like Retail Sluts, The Rise and Fall of 00:05:36.629 --> 00:05:39.649 the Farewell Drugs. Wow, okay. The Hobo Got Too 00:05:39.649 --> 00:05:43.149 High, I Want to Be Adored. And then... The perfect 00:05:43.149 --> 00:05:45.949 mashup of his worlds. The name of this play is 00:05:45.949 --> 00:05:48.410 Talking Heads. I love that. He just couldn't 00:05:48.410 --> 00:05:50.329 stop mixing his passions. Yeah. But was this 00:05:50.329 --> 00:05:52.970 just him like having fun or did this theater 00:05:52.970 --> 00:05:54.930 work actually get taken seriously? Did it get 00:05:54.930 --> 00:05:56.970 critical recognition? Oh, it absolutely did. 00:05:57.029 --> 00:05:58.870 He wasn't just dabbling. His play, Shyness is 00:05:58.870 --> 00:06:01.850 Nice, in particular, got some real. critical 00:06:01.850 --> 00:06:04.269 acclaim. How so? Well, it was actually selected 00:06:04.269 --> 00:06:06.870 and anthologized as one of NY Theatre's Best 00:06:06.870 --> 00:06:09.410 Plays of 2001. Okay, that's significant, especially 00:06:09.410 --> 00:06:11.529 for work coming out of such a small, you know, 00:06:11.550 --> 00:06:13.550 underground kind of venue. Exactly. It's serious 00:06:13.550 --> 00:06:16.009 validation. And it shows the power of his writing, 00:06:16.069 --> 00:06:18.269 regardless of the medium. It's enduring life. 00:06:18.490 --> 00:06:20.629 How do you mean? Well, the opening monologue 00:06:20.629 --> 00:06:24.610 from Shyness is Nice. Years later. It was included 00:06:24.610 --> 00:06:26.990 in this applause anthology called One on One 00:06:26.990 --> 00:06:30.129 Best Men's Monologues of the 21st Century that 00:06:30.129 --> 00:06:33.829 came out in October 2008. No kidding. So the 00:06:33.829 --> 00:06:37.050 guy writing about Mick Jagger also pens a monologue 00:06:37.050 --> 00:06:39.209 considered definitive for contemporary American 00:06:39.209 --> 00:06:42.970 actors. That specific piece of recognition, it 00:06:42.970 --> 00:06:46.290 bridges his two careers beautifully, I think. 00:06:46.350 --> 00:06:48.810 Yeah. It confirms that whether he was tackling 00:06:48.810 --> 00:06:52.060 Bowie's life story. or writing a monologue for 00:06:52.060 --> 00:06:55.480 some tiny downtown stage, his critical eye, his 00:06:55.480 --> 00:06:57.899 ability to capture a specific voice for a specific 00:06:57.899 --> 00:07:01.759 time, it was constant and impactful. Which leads 00:07:01.759 --> 00:07:04.180 us perfectly into, I guess, section three, defining 00:07:04.180 --> 00:07:06.459 counterculture and legacy. Because beyond the 00:07:06.459 --> 00:07:08.879 big bios and the gritty plays, Spitz seemed to 00:07:08.879 --> 00:07:11.220 have this knack for trying to, I don't know, 00:07:11.240 --> 00:07:13.540 put his finger on cultural movements while they 00:07:13.540 --> 00:07:15.360 were happening. Define them. Yeah, he wasn't 00:07:15.360 --> 00:07:16.959 just reporting on stuff. He was actively trying 00:07:16.959 --> 00:07:20.500 to, like, create a cultural taxonomy. Makes sense 00:07:20.500 --> 00:07:22.759 of it all. How did he do that? Well, his memoir, 00:07:23.019 --> 00:07:26.180 Peugeot, a memoir of downtown New York City in 00:07:26.180 --> 00:07:28.899 the 90s, that's crucial here. Okay. Peugeot. 00:07:29.000 --> 00:07:31.399 That book is basically the self -documentation 00:07:31.399 --> 00:07:33.720 that connects his journalism right back to the 00:07:33.720 --> 00:07:36.459 exact scene where his plays were born. Ah, so 00:07:36.459 --> 00:07:38.379 it provides the context, the world of retail 00:07:38.379 --> 00:07:40.519 sluts and all that. Exactly. He was living the 00:07:40.519 --> 00:07:42.240 culture that he wrote about and that he put on 00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:45.899 stage. But then, okay, then he turns around and 00:07:45.899 --> 00:07:49.069 writes a book called Tree. The gentle revolution 00:07:49.069 --> 00:07:52.490 in music, books, television, fashion and film. 00:07:52.589 --> 00:07:55.230 Right. That seems like such a huge shift from 00:07:55.230 --> 00:07:59.430 punk chaos to like quiet, earnest, kind of quirky 00:07:59.430 --> 00:08:01.670 aesthetics. What was he trying to do with that? 00:08:01.910 --> 00:08:05.230 I think it really shows his commitment to giving 00:08:05.230 --> 00:08:08.250 historical weight, critical weight to movements 00:08:08.250 --> 00:08:10.509 that often get overlooked or just dismissed as, 00:08:10.610 --> 00:08:13.589 you know, fleeting trends. By writing twee, he 00:08:13.589 --> 00:08:16.149 was basically saying, look, this aesthetic, this 00:08:16.149 --> 00:08:19.040 gentle revolution. It's worth serious critical 00:08:19.040 --> 00:08:22.019 thought just as much as Stadium Rock is. So it 00:08:22.019 --> 00:08:24.939 elevated him maybe beyond just being a journalist 00:08:24.939 --> 00:08:27.899 to be more of a public voice on culture? I think 00:08:27.899 --> 00:08:30.279 so, yeah. And he clearly had the platform to 00:08:30.279 --> 00:08:32.279 use that voice. You see him speaking at universities. 00:08:32.639 --> 00:08:34.659 Right. Didn't he speak at Columbia? Yeah, Columbia 00:08:34.659 --> 00:08:36.840 University talking about playwriting. And then 00:08:36.840 --> 00:08:39.019 DePaul University talking about journalism. He 00:08:39.019 --> 00:08:41.690 literally taught both halves of his career. That's 00:08:41.690 --> 00:08:44.190 amazing. And you'd see him pop up as a go -to 00:08:44.190 --> 00:08:46.710 cultural commentator, right? Like a talking head 00:08:46.710 --> 00:08:50.909 on MTV, VH1, MSNBC. Ah, right. The expert voice 00:08:50.909 --> 00:08:53.730 explaining things. Totally. He'd really mastered 00:08:53.730 --> 00:08:56.470 that multi -platform way of doing cultural critique, 00:08:56.669 --> 00:08:59.210 applying his insights wherever pop culture was 00:08:59.210 --> 00:09:01.549 being discussed. He also wrote fiction too, right? 00:09:01.629 --> 00:09:03.450 A couple of novels. Yeah, that's right. How Soon 00:09:03.450 --> 00:09:06.389 is Never and Too Much Too Late. And he popped 00:09:06.389 --> 00:09:08.590 up in some anthologies, too, like the Encyclopedia 00:09:08.590 --> 00:09:12.409 of Exes and Rock and Roll Cage Match. So writing 00:09:12.409 --> 00:09:15.269 across basically all formats. He really covered 00:09:15.269 --> 00:09:17.889 the map. Okay. So wrapping this up, what does 00:09:17.889 --> 00:09:21.710 this all mean? Mark Spitz, his career, it's a 00:09:21.710 --> 00:09:24.029 pretty remarkable trajectory, isn't it? It really 00:09:24.029 --> 00:09:26.690 is. You've got this senior music journalist providing 00:09:26.690 --> 00:09:29.289 the definitive context for these rock legends. 00:09:29.509 --> 00:09:32.279 Bowie Jagger. Mm -hmm. And then, at the exact 00:09:32.279 --> 00:09:35.379 same time, he's this recognized playwright shaping 00:09:35.379 --> 00:09:38.799 an intimate, specific downtown scene. His legacy 00:09:38.799 --> 00:09:41.240 seems to be about a writer who just refused to 00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:44.360 let culture be neatly separated into boxes. Yeah, 00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:47.139 he provided context and insight across pretty 00:09:47.139 --> 00:09:50.480 much every major medium. High culture, low culture, 00:09:50.539 --> 00:09:53.690 pop culture. He was there. It's a powerful testament, 00:09:53.769 --> 00:09:56.070 I think, to the idea that critical rigor matters 00:09:56.070 --> 00:09:58.730 everywhere, whether you're covering the biggest 00:09:58.730 --> 00:10:00.950 star on the planet or the smallest, grimiest 00:10:00.950 --> 00:10:03.110 little theater. Agreed. And we should mention, 00:10:03.269 --> 00:10:05.529 sadly, that Mark Spitz died in New York City 00:10:05.529 --> 00:10:09.590 February 2017. He was only 47. So young. Yeah. 00:10:09.669 --> 00:10:12.309 Our sources confirm his death, but didn't provide 00:10:12.309 --> 00:10:14.870 any information about the cause. But his work 00:10:14.870 --> 00:10:17.009 definitely remains. It's like this potent cultural 00:10:17.009 --> 00:10:19.649 time capsule, isn't it? Documenting both the 00:10:19.649 --> 00:10:22.269 huge narratives of rock history and these tiny, 00:10:22.309 --> 00:10:24.850 intense, maybe easily forgotten corners of the 00:10:24.850 --> 00:10:27.289 New York art world. Absolutely. Which I think 00:10:27.289 --> 00:10:29.330 raises a really interesting question for you, 00:10:29.350 --> 00:10:31.909 the listener, to think about. Mark Spitz showed 00:10:31.909 --> 00:10:33.669 us that the same sharp critical intelligence 00:10:33.669 --> 00:10:38.139 can and maybe should be applied everywhere. So 00:10:38.139 --> 00:10:40.799 think about today. Which cultural chronicler 00:10:40.799 --> 00:10:43.500 now has the authority, the access, and the inclination 00:10:43.500 --> 00:10:46.320 to cover, say, Taylor Swift? The biggest possible 00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:49.559 star. Right. And also, in the same year, gives 00:10:49.559 --> 00:10:52.320 serious attention to the smallest, most experimental 00:10:52.320 --> 00:10:55.100 off -Broadway theater company. Yeah. Who's doing 00:10:55.100 --> 00:10:57.100 both with the same kind of depth and credibility 00:10:57.100 --> 00:11:00.220 that Spitz managed. Exactly. That model of versatile 00:11:00.220 --> 00:11:03.059 engagement, it feels incredibly rare now. Maybe 00:11:03.059 --> 00:11:05.799 impossible. And it's definitely worth pondering 00:11:05.799 --> 00:11:06.500 why that might be.