Welcome back to The Deep Dive, where we take
a monumental career, stack up the evidence, and
really try to extract the singular story that
defines it. And today we're tackling a big one,
a really big one. We are. We're attempting to
map the truly, well, chameleonic landscape that
is the career of John Arthur Lithgow. It is a
vast landscape, definitely. I mean, this is a
career that just completely defies the kind of
boxes we usually put performers in, you know?
Totally. He's 79 now. as of october 2024 and
you look at his work it's not just acting no
not at all it's acting in like every medium imaginable
film tv stage plus authorship music even poetry
He's basically a polymath, isn't he? Someone
who just refuses to specialize. Absolutely. And
when you look at his accomplishments, it's not
just dabbling. He's achieved real mastery in
fields most actors wouldn't even, well, attempt.
Right. Think about it. He's the goofy alien commander
from Third Rock. Dick Solomon. Yeah. Hilarious.
But then he's also Arthur Mitchell, the Trinity
killer. Terrifying. Butterly terrifying. And
then he's Winston Churchill. A revered historical
figure. And on top of all that, he might genuinely
be your kid's favorite author. It's kind of mind
bending. All wrapped up in one, you know, extremely
tall package. Yeah, he is tall, isn't he? But
that kind of versatility, it only really matters
if the quality holds up across the board. And
with Lithgow, it absolutely does. The quality
is, well, it's certified. You just look at the
awards. Exactly. The institutional acclaim is
undeniable. We're talking, what, a total of six
primetime Emmy Awards? Six Emmys. Two Golden
Globes. Two Tonys, the big ones for Broadway.
And a Laurence Olivier Award from London's West
End, plus four Drama Desk Awards. It's incredible.
That means he's hit the absolute top tier in
American TV comedy, American TV drama, Broadway
theater, and London theater. It's astonishing
consistency across different forms and, frankly,
different countries' theatrical traditions. And
the nominations. They tell an even broader story
about just how far his reach extends. Oh, yeah.
Two Academy Award nominations for film. A BAFTA
nomination, too. Right. British Academy Film
Award, four Grammy nominations. That's for his
music and spoken word stuff. Which is a whole
other area we need to get into. And four Screen
Actors Guild Awards nominations as well from
his peers. So this isn't just, you know, a talented
actor. This is a genuine cultural powerhouse.
Someone whose success just translates seemingly
effortlessly across every single form of media.
And that's what's really fascinating here, isn't
it? That's the core of our deep dive today. How
does he do it? How does he manage those? extreme
pivots from high art to pop culture and back
again yeah moving so smoothly between really
demanding intellectual work think shakespeare
on stage like king lear right very highbrow and
then you know huge populist entertainment animated
movies network sitcoms family comedies our mission
then is to try and connect these dots these seemingly
completely separate parts of his career And trace
how maybe his intellectual, his academic foundation
actually provided the structure that allowed
him to master pretty much every genre he decided
to touch. From really sharp political satire.
To these incredibly sensitive, deep character
studies. That intellectual foundation does sound
key. So, OK, let's unpack this. Let's start right
at the beginning. The roots. What gave him this
remarkable discipline, this flexibility we see
throughout his career? Indeed. Let's go back.
John Lithgow, born October 19, 1945, Rochester,
New York. But his world was theatrical from,
well, from day one. Born into it. Pretty much.
His father, Arthur Lithgow, was a highly regarded
theatrical producer, director, too. Probably
best known for running the McCarter Theater in
Princeton, New Jersey. A very prestigious place.
And his mother? His mother, Sarah Jane. was a
retired actress herself. So, wow. He wasn't just
aware of the theater. He was practically raised
backstage. Exactly. You can picture it, right?
The kid doing his homework in the wings while,
I don't know, Chekhov is being rehearsed on stage.
He lived and breathed it. The family absolutely
did. And his childhood, it was really defined
by movement and observation. Essential tools
for any great character actor, right? Constantly
adapting. Because his father's job meant they
moved around. A lot. frequently. And this is
where we get some of those really surprising,
almost, wait, what? Anecdotes? Okay, yeah, lay
them on us. The Coretta Scott King one still
blows my mind every time I hear it. It's genuinely
remarkable, isn't it? A real historical footnote.
It just illuminates the kind of intellectual
and socially engaged environment he was growing
up in. So where was this? They lived for a time
in Yellow Springs, Ohio. And yes, the activist
Coretta Scott King was actually his babysitter.
Just imagine that, the conversations, the atmosphere.
The proximity to major historical figures during
your formative years. It's incredible. It really
speaks volumes about the circles his family moved
in. Not just theater people, but, you know, plugged
into the broader currents of American thought
and activism at the time. So it wasn't just Yellow
Springs. No, he also spent time in other places.
They lived at Stan Highwood Hall in Akron for
a while. Wow, the former Cyberling estate. That's
amazing. Yeah, and then Lakewood, Ohio. Before
the family finally settled more permanently in
Princeton. All that moving around. It must have
demanded a huge amount of adaptability from him
as a kid. You'd have to think so. Constantly
assessing new environments, new people, new social
dynamics, new expectations. It's actually perfect
training, in a way, for someone who would later
need to inhabit dozens of completely different
characters. Makes sense. And that adaptability,
that intelligence, it clearly extended to his
schoolwork. His academic record is, well, seriously
impressive. Oh, definitely. After graduating
from Princeton High School in 63, he went straight
to Harvard College. And studied. History and
English literature. So we're talking a classical,
rigorous, liberal arts education. And he wasn't
just coasting either. Not at all. This wasn't
a casual degree. He graduated in 1967 with an
AB Magna Cum Laude. Which means... With great
distinction. Exactly. And he was elected to Phi
Beta Kappa, the academic honor society, this
intellectual firepower, this deep dive into narrative,
history, human motivation. You feel like that's
the unseen engine driving his versatility later
on. He didn't just learn how to act. He learned
why people act the way they do. Precisely. And
that connection to academia, it stuck with him.
He even served on the Harvard Board of Overseers
later in life. So he's got this brilliant academic
mind. Yeah. What was the moment, the spark, that
really turned this history scholar towards being
a full -time performer? Was there a specific
point? He actually credits a specific student
performance he did at Harvard. It was a production
of Gilbert and Sullivan's Utopia Limited. A comedic
operetta. Interesting. Yeah. Apparently doing
that, experiencing the joy of that kind of performance,
it just crystallized his decision. This is what
he wanted to do. But he didn't just, you know,
pack his bags for New York right away. No. Characteristically,
he doubled down on training first. classical
training. He won a Fulbright scholarship, which
allowed him to go study across the pond at the
London Academy of Music and Dramatic Art, LMDA.
Which is one of the top acting conservatories
in the world. Absolutely. So that path is really
crucial, I think. First, the intellectual rigor
of Harvard, then the classical stagecraft of
LMDA. That combination, it gives you an actor
who can handle incredibly stylized farce, but
with like surgical precision and also deep drama
right and even after lmda he didn't rush things
before he hit broadway he actually served as
the director of the arts and literature department
at wbai the pacifica radio station in new york
that's the one which shows this early interest
in like curating and administering culture not
just performing it he had this broader holistic
view of the arts world from the start Okay. Before
we jump into his professional career taking off,
we absolutely have to mention that other wild
factoid. The genealogical stuff. Oh, yeah. The
finding your roots discoveries. It's truly astonishing.
So he finds out he's a direct descendant of how
many Mayflower passengers? Eight. eight Mayflower
passengers, including William Bradford, the colonial
governor. So his roots go right back to the literal
beginning of the American historical narrative.
It's incredible. And if that wasn't enough...
There's more. The findings also showed he's related
to the show's host, Henry Lewitt Gates Jr., and
he's distant cousins with this unbelievable roster
of American cultural figures. Like who? Okay,
get this. Chef Julia Child. Wow. The famously
reclusive author Thomas Pynchon. No way. Pynchon.
Yeah. And actors like Alec Baldwin, Clint Eastwood,
and Sally Field. That is an insane collection
of relatives. It really is. And if you pause
for a second and kind of connect this surprising
lineage to his career, maybe it starts to make
a strange sort of sense. How so? Well, he literally
contains this huge swath of American cultural
history within his family tree, right? From pilgrims
and governors to celebrity chefs, literary enigmas,
Hollywood icons. So you're saying inhabiting
all these different American personas. Yeah.
From the highbrow intellectual to the, you know.
deeply populist entertainer, it's almost like
a birthright for him. Maybe. It suggests he has
both the intellectual grounding and this kind
of deep, almost familial connection to play all
these different American cultural roles authentically.
Interesting angle. Speaking of authenticity,
let's trace his rise, starting with this stage,
which really feels like the core of his artistic
identity, doesn't it? Absolutely. The thespian
core. So we're looking at roughly 1972 to 1995.
This period where he just dominates Broadway
almost immediately and then gets massive film
recognition. His professional launch was, frankly,
explosive. Made his Broadway debut in 73. David
Story's play, The Changing Room. And the reaction.
Immediate. Overwhelming. He won his very first
Tony Award right there. Best featured actor in
a play. And a Drama Desk Award, too. For his
debut, that's incredibly rare. It just signals
that all that training, Harvard, LAMDA, the radio
work, it paid off instantly. The discipline was
there. Totally. And that success kept him focused
on the stage initially. He did major work in
other plays, like My Fat Friend opposite Lynn
Redgrave. And more Tony nominations followed.
Yep. He was nominated again in 1985 for Requiem
for a Heavyweight. That was written by Rod Serling,
actually. Wow, the Twilight Zone creator. The
very same. Then came that critically acclaimed
run in M. Butterfly in 1988 opposite B .D. Wong.
Got another Tony nomination for that. So the
stage wasn't just a launch pad. It was his anchor,
his home base. Absolutely. But while he was conquering
Broadway, he was also quietly building this parallel
career in film. And that really exploded in the
early 80s. What was the turning point there?
Well, his film debut was actually 72 in a movie
called Dealing or the Berkeley to Boston 40 brick
lost bag blues. Bit of a mouthful. Yeah, just
rolls off the tongue. But he gained serious traction
playing a character based loosely on the choreographer
Michael Bennett in Bob Fosse's All That Jazz
in 1979. Oh, right. Great film. Intense. Super
intense. And that role alone showed he could
handle Fosse's really complex mix of, you know,
musicality, drama, psychological depth. And this
leads us right into the period that cemented
his screen credibility. Those back -to -back
Oscar nominations. Yeah, it's such a testament
to his range that these nominations came for
two completely different kinds of performances,
both emotionally rich, but so distinct. First
one was 82, The World According to Garp. Playing
Roberta Muldoon, the transgender ex -football
player. A groundbreaking role for its time, surely,
especially in mainstream film. Absolutely. It
demanded incredible sensitivity, real emotional
honesty. He had to portray this character who
was, let's face it, often misunderstood or even
caricatured back then. How did he manage to make
it so moving, so sensitive, rather than, you
know, playing it for laughs or shock value? I
think it comes back to that intellectual approach,
that respect for the character's complexity.
He approached Roberta as a fully realized human
being. Focused on her internal life, her dignity,
not just the external transformation. And the
nomination itself was a huge validation of that
nuanced approach. Definitely. It showed he could
access that profound emotional depth right away
on screen. And then, incredibly, he follows that
up the very next year, 1983, with another nomination.
Second consecutive nod for Best Supporting Actor,
this time for Terms of Endearment. Plain Sam
Burns, the quiet, lonely banker who has the affair
with Debra Winger's character. Oh, Shirley MacLaine's
character. Right. Shirley MacLaine's character,
Emma, he provides this sort of quiet, grounded
counterpoint to her chaotic life. That contrast
is just amazing. From the pioneering, life -altering
journey of Roberta Muldoon. To the understated,
almost mundane, relatable sadness of Sam Burns.
Those two roles back -to -back, they really cemented
his reputation, didn't they? As this dynamic...
emotionally articulate, super reliable screen
actor, no matter the genre. Totally. He could
do anything. And the rest of the 80s proved it.
It was like an absolute genre playground for
him, just showcasing that ability to jump between
high art and, well, pure, sometimes frantic entertainment.
Okay, so let's talk about that 80s run. Where
does he go after the Oscar nods? Well, the transition
from respected nominee to genuine horror icon
happened pretty quickly. 1983, Twilight Zone,
the movie. Ah, yes. Nightmare at 20 ,000 Feet.
The gremlin on the wing. He plays that terrified
passenger, John Valentine. And his performance
is just sheer, unadulterated psychological terror.
It's riveting. He actually said in an interview,
I think, with Bill Moyers that this was his favorite
film role he ever did. And that tells you so
much, doesn't it? He loves roles that demand
that total, almost unhinged commitment to a specific
psychological state. The anxiety, the manic energy
he sustains. It's incredible. Then, the very
next year. 1984, he delivers maybe the ultimate
high camp sci -fi villain performance. Dr. Emilio
Lizardo slash Lord John Worfen. In the adventures
of Buckaroo Banzai across the eighth dimension.
An absolute cult classic. And that performance
is the polar opposite of the contained terror
in Twilight Zone. Totally. It's bizarre. It's
over the top. Slightly cartoonish, maybe, but
delivered with absolute unwavering commitment.
He just goes for it. It proves he understands
perfectly when a performance needs to lean into
theatricality, into absurdism. He was also in
a more mainstream sci -fi film that same year,
wasn't he? Yeah, the big sequel, 2010, The Year
We Make Contact, played Dr. Walter Kernow. More
grounded, but still in that sci -fi realm. And
we can't forget, even amidst the genre stuff,
he was still touching on serious themes. That
minor but impactful role in The Day After. Right,
1983, the TV movie about nuclear apocalypse.
Huge cultural event at the time. And he got an
Emmy nomination for that, even for a smaller
part. Shows his ability to contribute meaningfully
to serious social commentary. And this period
also loops back to his early radio experience.
Remember WBAI? Oh, yeah. How so? He voiced Yoda.
Get out. Really? Yep. In the classic NTR radio
drama adaptations of The Empire Strikes Back
and Return of the Jedi. That's fantastic. What
a great piece of trivia. It shows his versatility,
again, using just his voice to create such an
iconic character. Exactly. Not relying on visuals
at all. Pure vocal performance. Okay, so as we
move out of the 80s and into the 90s, his villainous
streak, it seems to continue, maybe even intensify.
especially in action and thrillers. Absolutely.
He really embraced playing the dangerous antagonist.
In 91, he was terrifying opposite Denzel Washington
in Ricochet, played the criminal Earl Talbot
Blake. Vicious role. Really nasty. Then came
the Brian De Palma thriller Raising Cain in 92.
Where he played a guy with multiple personality
disorder. Right, which for an actor like him
is like a gift, isn't it? allowed him to explore
several distinct characters within one physical
body, a real acting showcase. And then the big
one, the blockbuster action villain role. Eric
Qualen, the sophisticated, ruthless terrorist
leader in Cliffhanger. Opposites to Lone, 1993,
high -altitude thrills. He was the perfect 90s
bad guy, intelligent, articulate. but utterly
without mercy. He really nailed that archetype,
but even amidst all the action and thrills, the
weight of history pulls him back again, connecting
to that academic background. How so this time?
1994. He portrays President Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
Wow. And what? An NBC miniseries called World
War II, when lions roared, starred alongside
Michael Caine as Stalin and Bob Hoskins as Churchill.
Talk about a heavyweight cast. That's huge. Tackling
FDR, that's stepping into massive historical
shoes. How did he prepare for a role like that,
an icon everyone recognizes? Immense commitment,
both physically and historically. To mirror FDR's
paralysis from polio, Lithgow actually wore these
heavy, cumbersome leg braces throughout the filming.
That kind of physical transformation, we see
it again later with Churchill. He's not afraid
of the practical discomfort if it helps embody
the character. Exactly. And he spoke about the
pressure, too. The weight of playing such a revered
figure. He mentioned that when he told his mother
he got the role, she apparently burst into tears.
Wow. Just shows the emotional significance it
held, even within his own family. So that ability
to handle intense prep, high expectations, deep
historical context. That really sets the stage
perfectly for his next phase, the phase where
he becomes a true household name, an established
icon across all mediums. Right. Let's pivot now
to that period, say 1996 through to about 2015.
Okay. And this phase really kicks off with the
role that for a whole generation of TV viewers
is John Lithgow. Dr. Dick Solomon. Dr. Dick Solomon,
high commander of the alien expedition, NBC sitcom
Third Rock from the Sun, ran from 96 to 2001.
It was such a bizarre concept. it worked brilliantly.
Aliens trying and mostly failing to understand
basic human life. and his performance it required
this incredible amount of physical comedy really
stylized movements big facial expressions a complete
180 from the contained menace of qualen or blake
you really see the stage training coming through
there don't you absolutely that kind of high
level physical comedy it needs incredible precision
timing control stamina his serious theater background
actually enabled him to pull off the manic exaggerated
movements of an alien commander who's like piloting
a human body doesn't quite understand. And the
awards voters noticed. Big time. Yeah, yeah.
Six consecutive Emmy nominations for Outstanding
Lead Actor in a Comedy Series. Every single year
the show is on the air. And he won three times,
right? Three wins. 1996, 1997, and 1999. It's
genuinely hard to think of another actor who
made that specific pivot so successfully. From
two back -to -back dramatic Oscar nominations.
To winning three Emmys in four years for this
wild, high -concept physical comedy. It's just
extraordinary range. And wasn't his son on the
show too? Yeah, just a nice little detail. His
son, Ian Lithgow, appeared regularly as Leon,
one of Dick's physics students. Nice. Okay, so
hot on the heels of Third Rock wrapping up 2001
comes this voice acting role. that became, well,
unexpectedly massive. Totally massive. And apparently
nobody saw it coming. Least of all Lithgow himself.
Lord Farquaad. Lord Farquaad, the diminutive,
power -hungry, hilarious villain in DreamWorks
Shrek. And the story behind that is pretty funny,
right? Yeah, the anecdote is great. It really
reveals how much the animation landscape was
changing then. Lithgow admitted he initially
just thought it was, quote, like a Saturday morning
cartoon. You know, not a big deal. He didn't
realize it would be a phenomenon. Not at all,
because the production took so long with lots
of delays. He apparently just came back once
every eight months or so to record some new material.
He had no idea it was going to become this global
mega hit. But his vocal performance was instantly
iconic. Critics loved it. They did. They often
compared his delivery of that kind of delicious,
sophisticated, slightly theatrical villainy to
actors like Kelsey Grammer or Alan Rickman, masters
of the voice. He managed to convey all that arrogance,
the pettiness, the ambition just through his
voice. Incredible. But even while conquering
TV comedy and blockbuster animation, the stage
was always calling him back. It remained his
artistic center. So he returns to Broadway. In
2002. And proves he can handle musical theater,
too. He wins his second Tony Award. Second Tony,
this time four. Best leading actor in a musical
for Sweet Smell of Success. Playing J .J. Hunsaker.
The cynical, powerful newspaper columnist. Right.
A character worlds away from Dick Solomon. Deeply
bitter, manipulative, dark. How demanding is
that switch? Going from that high -energy sitcom
grind to carrying a complex musical drama like
that. It requires completely different muscles,
artistically speaking. Hunsecker needed serious
vocal control for the songs, that dramatic gravitas
for the character, and the sheer physical discipline
of doing eight shows a week in a musical. His
dedication to theater just shines through. He
got another nomination soon after, didn't he?
Yeah, a few years later, 2005, for the musical
comedy Dirty Rotten Scoundrels. Though in a fun
twist, he actually lost the Tony that year to
his co -star Norbert Leo Butz. Still, that commitment
to the stage was formally recognized around then,
too. Yes. He was inducted into the American Theatre
Hall of Fame in 2005, which acknowledged not
just his work in straight plays, but also his
surprising work in opera. He'd performed in productions
by Verdi and Wagner. Opera too. Is there anything
he can't do? Apparently not. And that same year,
2005, really highlights that unique blend he
has, the performer and the intellectual. Oh,
so. He went back to his alma mater, Harvard,
and became the first actor ever invited to deliver
the main commencement speech. Wow. That's usually
reserved for presidents, Nobel laureates, CEOs.
Exactly. It was a huge honor. And Harvard also
gave him an honorary doctor of arts degree that
day. Okay, so we've got the lovable alien, the
Broadway star, the respected intellectual. And
then, just as maybe audiences were getting comfortable
with that image, he delivered a performance so
chilling, it completely redefined his dramatic
side for a whole new generation. The Trinity
Killer. Arthur Mitchell. Dexter Morgan's terrifying
nemesis in the 2009 season of Dexter. This role,
maybe more than any other single role, just shattered
whatever lingering public perception there was
of John Lithgow as primarily a comedic actor.
It showed he could harness that quiet intensity
we saw way back in terms of Endearment or even
Raising Cain. But infuse it with this deep, chilling,
terrifying malice. The horror of Arthur Mitchell
was that duality, wasn't it? The outwardly normal,
pious family man, the Sunday school teacher.
Who was secretly this meticulous, radialistic
serial killer, operating completely under the
radar for decades. His performance was a masterclass
in controlled menace. Total containment. His
approach felt almost clinical, highlighting the
structure, the control that Arthur Mitchell exerted
over his double life. And it resonated so deeply
because it tapped into that fear of the ordinary
turning monstrous, the monster next door. And
again, the awards followed. A Golden Globe for
this role. Yep. Golden Globe Award. And another
Primetime Emmy Award, this time for Outstanding
Guest Actor in a Drama Series. He even came back
briefly for the Revival Series in 2021. You want
the ultimate career contrast. Just put those
Emmy wins side by side. Right. The triple Emmy
winning manic physical comedy of Dick Solomon.
And the Globe. and Emmy -winning, tightly controlled,
psychopathic terror of Arthur Mitchell. It perfectly
illustrates the whole point of this deep dive,
doesn't it? His chameleonic talent isn't just
superficial. It's about diving deep into the
psychological structure of a character, whether
that character operates on, you know, comedic
alien logic or pure cold sociopathy. But this
era wasn't all just dark TV drama. He kept the
stage work going, too. Absolutely. He maintained
that theatrical commitment, played the big one,
Shakespeare's King Lear. title role. Where was
that? In 2014 at Shakespeare in the Park in New
York, which was actually his first time performing
there since way back in 1975. A big return. And
he was still championing smaller independent
films too, right? Yes. Showing his support for
complex, character -driven indie filmmaking.
Around that same time, 2014, he got a lot of
critical attention for his role opposite Alfred
Molina in Love is Strange. Oh, I remember that
film. Beautifully done. About an older gay couple
facing difficulties after finally getting getting
married. Exactly. It got great reviews, something
like 94 percent on Rotten Tomatoes, four Independent
Spirit Award nominations. Critics really praised
the graceful, sensitive portrayal of this long
term relationship by both him and Molina. It
just shows that his star power, his recognizability
could help elevate these smaller, important films
alongside the big blockbusters and hit TV shows.
It confirms that pattern we see throughout his
career. He seems to use the visibility and frankly,
the financial success from his TV and film work
to sustain and enable the more demanding, often
less commercial artistic work that clearly feeds
his curiosity, like stage work or indie film.
Which brings us neatly into his most recent phase,
say 2016 to the present. This period feels marked
by incredibly high prestige projects, a lot of
historical transformation, and even direct political
commentary. Definitely. And the role that really
defined this later career prestige, especially
for the huge global streaming audiences, has
to be Winston Churchill. And Netflix is the crown.
Season 1, 2016. Right. And for this, bang, another
Primetime Emmy Award. And a Screen Actors Guild
Award, too. Outstanding supporting actor in a
drama series for both. Taking on Churchill. That's
maybe even bigger than FDR. So many iconic portrayals
already exist. You're inviting constant comparison.
How did he approach it? He said he had... No
hesitation about taking the role, which is pretty
bold. But he did his homework. Extensive research,
reading biographies, watching archival footage,
listening to speeches. But the physical transformation
must have been immense. Oh, huge. That was perhaps
the most challenging part. He apparently spent
two full days just getting fitted for the necessary
fat suit, the wig, and even the special... Mouth
plumpers? Mouth plumpers. To change his speech.
Exactly. Designed to help mimic Churchill's very
specific cadence and diction, the slight jolliness.
That level of commitment to physical alteration,
it's a hallmark of his work, isn't it? He's not
afraid of the makeup chair, the prosthetics,
the discomfort. It helps them find the character's
essence. Totally. And the performance itself
was lauded because it wasn't just imitation.
It was layered. He captured not just the famous
wartime leaders, bombast and strength, but also
the complexities. Yeah. The vulnerability of
a great man aging, grappling with potential irrelevance
after the war, battling his black dog, his depression.
It felt like a performance rooted again in that
deep understanding of history and psychology.
Thanks to that academic background. And around
the same time, we see this other fascinating
shift. Lithgow, the intellectual, the observer,
starts moving into direct political satire, using
his art to comment on the contemporary American
scene. Which is pretty unusual for an actor of
his stature and generation, right? Yes. To be
so overtly topical. Very. So what form did this
take? Well, he authored books. Two books of satirical
poems focused squarely on the Trump administration.
Really? Poetry? Yep. Dumpty. The Age of Trump
Inverse came out of 2019. It was actually a bestseller
hit number three on the New York Times hardcover
nonfiction list. Wow. And then he followed it
up with Trumpty Dumpty Wanted a Crown in 2020.
He didn't just write, though. He used performance,
too, didn't he? Oh, yeah. He played Donald Trump
in a live reading of excerpts from the Mueller
report in 2019. It was called The Investigation,
A Search for the Truth in 10 Acts. And he became
a fixture on late night TV for a while. portraying
Rudy Giuliani. In a whole series of recurring
sketches on The Late Show with Stephen Colbert,
he completely nailed Giuliani's mannerisms around
that time. He also lent his voice to that parody
children's book. Right, the audiobook version
of A Day in the Life of Marlon Bundo, the book
that gently satirized Mike Pence's family rabbit
book by telling a story about a gay rabbit. So
he's really putting his recognizable voice and
versatile talents right into the middle of immediate
cultural and political conversations. Fearlessly,
it seems. But shifting back to more traditional
dramatic roles, he took on another really complex,
controversial figure from the political media
world. Roger Hills. Roger Hills, the Fox News
CEO, in the 2019 film Bombshell. Another figure
who inspired intense loyalty from some and utter
condemnation from others. How did Lithgow approach
that minefield? He was very clear about his intention.
He stated publicly that his goal with the portrayal
was specifically, quote, to trouble people, unsettle
people with the fact that they shouldn't have
sympathy for the devil. So he wasn't trying to
find the good in ales. Doesn't sound like it.
It shows an actor really thinking about the narrative
impact, the moral responsibility of portraying
someone so powerful and polarizing. He wanted
the audience to confront the difficult reality
of the man's actions, not find easy empathy.
And he's kept up this incredible pace of high
profile, dramatic work just in the last few years.
Absolutely. He was great as the sort of fading
old guard lawyer, Elias Burchard, E .B. Jonathan
in HBO's Perry Mason reboot back in 2020. And
then he stars. opposite Jeff Bridges in that
excellent Hulu thriller The Old Man. in 2022
right playing the fbi assistant director harold
harper got another golden globe nomination for
that his ability to just anchor these prestige
streaming dramas often playing these morally
complex ambiguous characters shows his appeal
is still incredibly strong with top tier creators
and he popped up in scorsese's huge epic yep
join the incredible cast of martin scorsese's
killers of the flower moon in 2023 plain prosecutor
leeward and just recently in 2024 another intriguing
film role conclave the conspiracy thriller set
during a papal election he plays one of the cardinals
cardinal trembley critics called his performance
intriguingly slippery so he still has that capacity
for subtle unpredictable menace when he needs
it seems so and we're still seeing him triumph
on the global stage too just this year 2024 he
won the lawrence olivier award for best actor
london's highest theater honor For what role?
For portraying the author Roald Dahl in the West
End production of a play called Giant. Wow. Another
major award late in his career. It just confirms
his stage vitality is completely undiminished.
And critics apparently noted his uncanny resemblance
to the writer in the role, that physical transformation
again. And looking even further ahead, he's not
slowing down. He's stepping into another absolutely
iconic, generation -defining role soon. It was
confirmed just recently, February 20, 25, I believe.
He's going to play Albus Dumbledore. Dumbledore.
In the new HBO Harry Potter series. That is a
massive role. Huge cultural weight. Immense expectations
from fans. It solidifies his presence across
yet another generation of popular culture, doesn't
it? Yeah. Kids who read his children's books.
Adults who watch Third Rock or The Crown. They'll
all engage with his work in this new, iconic
way. It's an amazing capstone, potentially, though
knowing him, probably not the final one. Probably
not. Okay, before we try to wrap our heads around
this whole staggering career, we absolutely have
to touch on his completely separate creative
life. The thing that really marks him as a Renaissance
man. His work for children. Exactly. Yeah. It
often gets overshadowed by the acting awards,
but he's a... Genuinely prolific and successful
children's author. He really is. He's written
and sometimes illustrated several bestsellers.
Books like Marsupial Sioux, Macabre, I'm a Manatee,
The Remarkable Farkle McBride. And these aren't
just quick celebrity cash -ins, are they? They
feel like thoughtful, often funny contributions
to children's literature, often celebrating creativity,
music. Precisely. And that dedication extends
to performing music for children, too. He released
three albums of kids' music. I remember Singing
in the Bathtub from 1999. Yeah, that was the
first one. Then Farkle and Friends in 2002. He
dedicated that one to the country singer Waylon
Jennings, oddly enough. Unexpected. And The Sunny
Side of the Street in 2006. And he actually performs
these songs sometimes. Makes appearances accompanying
himself on guitar. What's truly unique, though,
may be the absolute peak of his bizarrely diverse
artistic life. is the ballet connection. It's
unparalleled for an actor, surely. He wrote the
narrations for a ballet by the choreographer
Christopher Wheldon. It's called Carnival of
the Animals. Based on the Sansan's music. Exactly.
But not only did he write the narration, he actually
performed in the ballet with major companies
like the New York City Ballet. Doing what? Not
dancing, surely? Oh, no, not plies. He played
a character, an elephant named Nurse Mabel Bunce,
which required him to blend like physical comedy,
narration, and somehow engage with high art ballet
choreography all at once. Okay, that intersection
right there, Oscar nominee, sitcom star, Shakespearean
leave, political satirist, children's author,
and ballet elephant. That might just be the perfect
summation of John Lithgow's versatility. It's
pretty close. And just briefly, on the personal
and professional recognition side beyond the
performance awards, he has a star on the Hollywood
Walk of Fame. He's in the American Theater Hall
of Fame. And reflecting that intellectual side
again, he was elected to the American Philosophical
Society in 2019. Right. Very prestigious. Shows
his deep engagement with ideas beyond his performance.
And personally, he's been married to Mary Yeager,
a UCLA history professor, since 1981. Long marriage.
Yeah. He has three children, one from his first
marriage to Jean Tainton, which ended back in
1980. Okay, so we have cataloged this career
of just staggering, almost dizzying diversity.
Stage triumphs, Oscar drama, blockbuster action,
triple Emmy comedy, high prestige history, political
satire, children's books, music, ballet. Where
do you even begin to summarize it? I think John
Lithgow's career is basically the definition
of a masterclass in adaptation. His success isn't
defined by just one thing, one medium, one genre.
It's defined by his unique ability to reach the
absolute highest levels in wildly different arenas,
conquering the stage, whether it's classic Shakespeare
like Lear or winning an Olivier for playing Roald
Dahl. While simultaneously dominating television
in roles that could not be more different from
each other. He just refuses to be put in a box,
refuses to be contained by any single... And
that profound chameleonic nature. Maybe he's
best understood, as we touched on, by just revisiting
the sheer emotional distance between those three
key Emmy -winning TV roles. It's the perfect
illustration. You've got Dick Solomon, hyper
-physical, manic, but incredibly disciplined
comedic timing. An alien leader. Then you've
got Arthur Mitchell, the Trinity Killer. Terrifyingly
controlled, psychologically complex, pure contained
menace. A serial killer. And then Winston Churchill.
Nuanced, complex, revered, burdened. A historical
icon. He achieved top tier award winning success,
embodying three completely different modes of
human or, well, alien experience. It really does
raise a fundamental question, doesn't it? A provocative
one, maybe for all of us. We live in a world,
especially now, that seems to reward narrow focus,
specialization, building a personal brand around
one thing. Right. Find your niche and stick to
it. But Lithgow achieved success at the highest
levels in the most demanding roles across comedy,
drama, film, stage, literature. Precisely because
he refused to limit himself. He constantly sought
reinvention. So what does his career, this massive
spectrum of accomplishment, suggest about the
actual value of refusing to specialize? About
the power of remaining adaptable and curious
across disciplines? Maybe it suggests that true
mastery can come from breadth as well as depth.
Something to think about. A profound thought
indeed. Something for you, our listeners, to
carry forward long after this deep dive ends.
Thank you for joining us. Thanks, everyone. We'll
see you next time on the Deep Dive.