WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.639 Welcome back to The Deep Dive, where we take 00:00:01.639 --> 00:00:04.839 a monumental career, stack up the evidence, and 00:00:04.839 --> 00:00:08.119 really try to extract the singular story that 00:00:08.119 --> 00:00:10.679 defines it. And today we're tackling a big one, 00:00:10.759 --> 00:00:13.480 a really big one. We are. We're attempting to 00:00:13.480 --> 00:00:17.519 map the truly, well, chameleonic landscape that 00:00:17.519 --> 00:00:20.339 is the career of John Arthur Lithgow. It is a 00:00:20.339 --> 00:00:22.620 vast landscape, definitely. I mean, this is a 00:00:22.620 --> 00:00:24.780 career that just completely defies the kind of 00:00:24.780 --> 00:00:27.179 boxes we usually put performers in, you know? 00:00:27.219 --> 00:00:31.199 Totally. He's 79 now. as of october 2024 and 00:00:31.199 --> 00:00:34.100 you look at his work it's not just acting no 00:00:34.100 --> 00:00:38.100 not at all it's acting in like every medium imaginable 00:00:38.100 --> 00:00:42.159 film tv stage plus authorship music even poetry 00:00:42.700 --> 00:00:44.560 He's basically a polymath, isn't he? Someone 00:00:44.560 --> 00:00:46.920 who just refuses to specialize. Absolutely. And 00:00:46.920 --> 00:00:48.520 when you look at his accomplishments, it's not 00:00:48.520 --> 00:00:51.539 just dabbling. He's achieved real mastery in 00:00:51.539 --> 00:00:53.840 fields most actors wouldn't even, well, attempt. 00:00:54.100 --> 00:00:56.259 Right. Think about it. He's the goofy alien commander 00:00:56.259 --> 00:00:58.719 from Third Rock. Dick Solomon. Yeah. Hilarious. 00:00:58.759 --> 00:01:00.460 But then he's also Arthur Mitchell, the Trinity 00:01:00.460 --> 00:01:02.479 killer. Terrifying. Butterly terrifying. And 00:01:02.479 --> 00:01:04.680 then he's Winston Churchill. A revered historical 00:01:04.680 --> 00:01:08.319 figure. And on top of all that, he might genuinely 00:01:08.319 --> 00:01:11.140 be your kid's favorite author. It's kind of mind 00:01:11.140 --> 00:01:14.340 bending. All wrapped up in one, you know, extremely 00:01:14.340 --> 00:01:17.040 tall package. Yeah, he is tall, isn't he? But 00:01:17.040 --> 00:01:20.079 that kind of versatility, it only really matters 00:01:20.079 --> 00:01:22.379 if the quality holds up across the board. And 00:01:22.379 --> 00:01:24.680 with Lithgow, it absolutely does. The quality 00:01:24.680 --> 00:01:26.879 is, well, it's certified. You just look at the 00:01:26.879 --> 00:01:30.219 awards. Exactly. The institutional acclaim is 00:01:30.219 --> 00:01:32.879 undeniable. We're talking, what, a total of six 00:01:32.879 --> 00:01:37.260 primetime Emmy Awards? Six Emmys. Two Golden 00:01:37.260 --> 00:01:39.920 Globes. Two Tonys, the big ones for Broadway. 00:01:40.159 --> 00:01:42.739 And a Laurence Olivier Award from London's West 00:01:42.739 --> 00:01:46.159 End, plus four Drama Desk Awards. It's incredible. 00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:49.000 That means he's hit the absolute top tier in 00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:52.239 American TV comedy, American TV drama, Broadway 00:01:52.239 --> 00:01:54.319 theater, and London theater. It's astonishing 00:01:54.319 --> 00:01:57.140 consistency across different forms and, frankly, 00:01:57.200 --> 00:01:59.340 different countries' theatrical traditions. And 00:01:59.340 --> 00:02:01.120 the nominations. They tell an even broader story 00:02:01.120 --> 00:02:03.420 about just how far his reach extends. Oh, yeah. 00:02:03.519 --> 00:02:06.400 Two Academy Award nominations for film. A BAFTA 00:02:06.400 --> 00:02:09.039 nomination, too. Right. British Academy Film 00:02:09.039 --> 00:02:12.180 Award, four Grammy nominations. That's for his 00:02:12.180 --> 00:02:14.360 music and spoken word stuff. Which is a whole 00:02:14.360 --> 00:02:16.400 other area we need to get into. And four Screen 00:02:16.400 --> 00:02:18.580 Actors Guild Awards nominations as well from 00:02:18.580 --> 00:02:21.139 his peers. So this isn't just, you know, a talented 00:02:21.139 --> 00:02:23.879 actor. This is a genuine cultural powerhouse. 00:02:24.180 --> 00:02:27.360 Someone whose success just translates seemingly 00:02:27.360 --> 00:02:30.080 effortlessly across every single form of media. 00:02:30.259 --> 00:02:32.159 And that's what's really fascinating here, isn't 00:02:32.159 --> 00:02:34.139 it? That's the core of our deep dive today. How 00:02:34.139 --> 00:02:37.400 does he do it? How does he manage those? extreme 00:02:37.400 --> 00:02:39.919 pivots from high art to pop culture and back 00:02:39.919 --> 00:02:43.139 again yeah moving so smoothly between really 00:02:43.139 --> 00:02:45.840 demanding intellectual work think shakespeare 00:02:45.840 --> 00:02:48.979 on stage like king lear right very highbrow and 00:02:48.979 --> 00:02:51.539 then you know huge populist entertainment animated 00:02:51.539 --> 00:02:54.960 movies network sitcoms family comedies our mission 00:02:54.960 --> 00:02:57.900 then is to try and connect these dots these seemingly 00:02:57.900 --> 00:03:00.830 completely separate parts of his career And trace 00:03:00.830 --> 00:03:03.569 how maybe his intellectual, his academic foundation 00:03:03.569 --> 00:03:05.710 actually provided the structure that allowed 00:03:05.710 --> 00:03:08.530 him to master pretty much every genre he decided 00:03:08.530 --> 00:03:11.210 to touch. From really sharp political satire. 00:03:11.310 --> 00:03:13.870 To these incredibly sensitive, deep character 00:03:13.870 --> 00:03:16.689 studies. That intellectual foundation does sound 00:03:16.689 --> 00:03:19.810 key. So, OK, let's unpack this. Let's start right 00:03:19.810 --> 00:03:23.710 at the beginning. The roots. What gave him this 00:03:23.710 --> 00:03:26.669 remarkable discipline, this flexibility we see 00:03:26.669 --> 00:03:29.599 throughout his career? Indeed. Let's go back. 00:03:29.680 --> 00:03:33.560 John Lithgow, born October 19, 1945, Rochester, 00:03:33.900 --> 00:03:36.719 New York. But his world was theatrical from, 00:03:36.780 --> 00:03:39.159 well, from day one. Born into it. Pretty much. 00:03:39.240 --> 00:03:42.539 His father, Arthur Lithgow, was a highly regarded 00:03:42.539 --> 00:03:46.060 theatrical producer, director, too. Probably 00:03:46.060 --> 00:03:48.639 best known for running the McCarter Theater in 00:03:48.639 --> 00:03:50.719 Princeton, New Jersey. A very prestigious place. 00:03:50.939 --> 00:03:54.150 And his mother? His mother, Sarah Jane. was a 00:03:54.150 --> 00:03:56.509 retired actress herself. So, wow. He wasn't just 00:03:56.509 --> 00:03:58.289 aware of the theater. He was practically raised 00:03:58.289 --> 00:04:00.689 backstage. Exactly. You can picture it, right? 00:04:00.770 --> 00:04:03.090 The kid doing his homework in the wings while, 00:04:03.189 --> 00:04:05.270 I don't know, Chekhov is being rehearsed on stage. 00:04:05.509 --> 00:04:07.810 He lived and breathed it. The family absolutely 00:04:07.810 --> 00:04:09.930 did. And his childhood, it was really defined 00:04:09.930 --> 00:04:12.189 by movement and observation. Essential tools 00:04:12.189 --> 00:04:14.870 for any great character actor, right? Constantly 00:04:14.870 --> 00:04:17.370 adapting. Because his father's job meant they 00:04:17.370 --> 00:04:21.029 moved around. A lot. frequently. And this is 00:04:21.029 --> 00:04:23.129 where we get some of those really surprising, 00:04:23.370 --> 00:04:26.829 almost, wait, what? Anecdotes? Okay, yeah, lay 00:04:26.829 --> 00:04:29.269 them on us. The Coretta Scott King one still 00:04:29.269 --> 00:04:31.889 blows my mind every time I hear it. It's genuinely 00:04:31.889 --> 00:04:34.509 remarkable, isn't it? A real historical footnote. 00:04:34.670 --> 00:04:37.870 It just illuminates the kind of intellectual 00:04:37.870 --> 00:04:40.389 and socially engaged environment he was growing 00:04:40.389 --> 00:04:43.110 up in. So where was this? They lived for a time 00:04:43.110 --> 00:04:45.889 in Yellow Springs, Ohio. And yes, the activist 00:04:45.889 --> 00:04:48.389 Coretta Scott King was actually his babysitter. 00:04:48.759 --> 00:04:51.519 Just imagine that, the conversations, the atmosphere. 00:04:52.579 --> 00:04:56.259 The proximity to major historical figures during 00:04:56.259 --> 00:04:58.319 your formative years. It's incredible. It really 00:04:58.319 --> 00:05:00.959 speaks volumes about the circles his family moved 00:05:00.959 --> 00:05:03.420 in. Not just theater people, but, you know, plugged 00:05:03.420 --> 00:05:05.699 into the broader currents of American thought 00:05:05.699 --> 00:05:07.779 and activism at the time. So it wasn't just Yellow 00:05:07.779 --> 00:05:10.040 Springs. No, he also spent time in other places. 00:05:10.100 --> 00:05:12.120 They lived at Stan Highwood Hall in Akron for 00:05:12.120 --> 00:05:14.259 a while. Wow, the former Cyberling estate. That's 00:05:14.259 --> 00:05:17.300 amazing. Yeah, and then Lakewood, Ohio. Before 00:05:17.300 --> 00:05:19.620 the family finally settled more permanently in 00:05:19.620 --> 00:05:23.540 Princeton. All that moving around. It must have 00:05:23.540 --> 00:05:25.819 demanded a huge amount of adaptability from him 00:05:25.819 --> 00:05:27.980 as a kid. You'd have to think so. Constantly 00:05:27.980 --> 00:05:30.680 assessing new environments, new people, new social 00:05:30.680 --> 00:05:33.500 dynamics, new expectations. It's actually perfect 00:05:33.500 --> 00:05:36.360 training, in a way, for someone who would later 00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:38.660 need to inhabit dozens of completely different 00:05:38.660 --> 00:05:41.319 characters. Makes sense. And that adaptability, 00:05:41.379 --> 00:05:43.699 that intelligence, it clearly extended to his 00:05:43.699 --> 00:05:47.360 schoolwork. His academic record is, well, seriously 00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:50.279 impressive. Oh, definitely. After graduating 00:05:50.279 --> 00:05:52.959 from Princeton High School in 63, he went straight 00:05:52.959 --> 00:05:55.879 to Harvard College. And studied. History and 00:05:55.879 --> 00:05:58.180 English literature. So we're talking a classical, 00:05:58.259 --> 00:06:00.980 rigorous, liberal arts education. And he wasn't 00:06:00.980 --> 00:06:02.959 just coasting either. Not at all. This wasn't 00:06:02.959 --> 00:06:06.459 a casual degree. He graduated in 1967 with an 00:06:06.459 --> 00:06:09.540 AB Magna Cum Laude. Which means... With great 00:06:09.540 --> 00:06:12.680 distinction. Exactly. And he was elected to Phi 00:06:12.680 --> 00:06:15.480 Beta Kappa, the academic honor society, this 00:06:15.480 --> 00:06:18.319 intellectual firepower, this deep dive into narrative, 00:06:18.379 --> 00:06:21.579 history, human motivation. You feel like that's 00:06:21.579 --> 00:06:23.779 the unseen engine driving his versatility later 00:06:23.779 --> 00:06:26.319 on. He didn't just learn how to act. He learned 00:06:26.319 --> 00:06:29.670 why people act the way they do. Precisely. And 00:06:29.670 --> 00:06:32.430 that connection to academia, it stuck with him. 00:06:32.569 --> 00:06:34.889 He even served on the Harvard Board of Overseers 00:06:34.889 --> 00:06:36.870 later in life. So he's got this brilliant academic 00:06:36.870 --> 00:06:40.569 mind. Yeah. What was the moment, the spark, that 00:06:40.569 --> 00:06:42.889 really turned this history scholar towards being 00:06:42.889 --> 00:06:45.139 a full -time performer? Was there a specific 00:06:45.139 --> 00:06:47.420 point? He actually credits a specific student 00:06:47.420 --> 00:06:49.519 performance he did at Harvard. It was a production 00:06:49.519 --> 00:06:52.740 of Gilbert and Sullivan's Utopia Limited. A comedic 00:06:52.740 --> 00:06:55.379 operetta. Interesting. Yeah. Apparently doing 00:06:55.379 --> 00:06:58.220 that, experiencing the joy of that kind of performance, 00:06:58.459 --> 00:07:01.019 it just crystallized his decision. This is what 00:07:01.019 --> 00:07:03.300 he wanted to do. But he didn't just, you know, 00:07:03.300 --> 00:07:06.160 pack his bags for New York right away. No. Characteristically, 00:07:06.220 --> 00:07:08.639 he doubled down on training first. classical 00:07:08.639 --> 00:07:11.720 training. He won a Fulbright scholarship, which 00:07:11.720 --> 00:07:14.420 allowed him to go study across the pond at the 00:07:14.420 --> 00:07:17.480 London Academy of Music and Dramatic Art, LMDA. 00:07:17.740 --> 00:07:19.720 Which is one of the top acting conservatories 00:07:19.720 --> 00:07:22.540 in the world. Absolutely. So that path is really 00:07:22.540 --> 00:07:24.899 crucial, I think. First, the intellectual rigor 00:07:24.899 --> 00:07:28.279 of Harvard, then the classical stagecraft of 00:07:28.279 --> 00:07:32.160 LMDA. That combination, it gives you an actor 00:07:32.160 --> 00:07:36.639 who can handle incredibly stylized farce, but 00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:40.540 with like surgical precision and also deep drama 00:07:40.540 --> 00:07:43.660 right and even after lmda he didn't rush things 00:07:43.660 --> 00:07:46.399 before he hit broadway he actually served as 00:07:46.399 --> 00:07:48.160 the director of the arts and literature department 00:07:48.160 --> 00:07:51.500 at wbai the pacifica radio station in new york 00:07:51.500 --> 00:07:54.540 that's the one which shows this early interest 00:07:54.540 --> 00:07:57.420 in like curating and administering culture not 00:07:57.420 --> 00:08:00.360 just performing it he had this broader holistic 00:08:00.360 --> 00:08:03.839 view of the arts world from the start Okay. Before 00:08:03.839 --> 00:08:06.339 we jump into his professional career taking off, 00:08:06.399 --> 00:08:09.800 we absolutely have to mention that other wild 00:08:09.800 --> 00:08:12.420 factoid. The genealogical stuff. Oh, yeah. The 00:08:12.420 --> 00:08:14.540 finding your roots discoveries. It's truly astonishing. 00:08:14.560 --> 00:08:17.079 So he finds out he's a direct descendant of how 00:08:17.079 --> 00:08:19.600 many Mayflower passengers? Eight. eight Mayflower 00:08:19.600 --> 00:08:21.759 passengers, including William Bradford, the colonial 00:08:21.759 --> 00:08:24.439 governor. So his roots go right back to the literal 00:08:24.439 --> 00:08:26.259 beginning of the American historical narrative. 00:08:26.439 --> 00:08:28.180 It's incredible. And if that wasn't enough... 00:08:28.180 --> 00:08:30.279 There's more. The findings also showed he's related 00:08:30.279 --> 00:08:33.379 to the show's host, Henry Lewitt Gates Jr., and 00:08:33.379 --> 00:08:36.659 he's distant cousins with this unbelievable roster 00:08:36.659 --> 00:08:39.500 of American cultural figures. Like who? Okay, 00:08:39.539 --> 00:08:42.879 get this. Chef Julia Child. Wow. The famously 00:08:42.879 --> 00:08:46.200 reclusive author Thomas Pynchon. No way. Pynchon. 00:08:46.259 --> 00:08:49.759 Yeah. And actors like Alec Baldwin, Clint Eastwood, 00:08:49.799 --> 00:08:52.879 and Sally Field. That is an insane collection 00:08:52.879 --> 00:08:54.940 of relatives. It really is. And if you pause 00:08:54.940 --> 00:08:56.960 for a second and kind of connect this surprising 00:08:56.960 --> 00:09:00.419 lineage to his career, maybe it starts to make 00:09:00.419 --> 00:09:03.840 a strange sort of sense. How so? Well, he literally 00:09:03.840 --> 00:09:06.580 contains this huge swath of American cultural 00:09:06.580 --> 00:09:09.019 history within his family tree, right? From pilgrims 00:09:09.019 --> 00:09:12.480 and governors to celebrity chefs, literary enigmas, 00:09:12.480 --> 00:09:14.960 Hollywood icons. So you're saying inhabiting 00:09:14.960 --> 00:09:16.799 all these different American personas. Yeah. 00:09:16.860 --> 00:09:19.620 From the highbrow intellectual to the, you know. 00:09:20.139 --> 00:09:23.179 deeply populist entertainer, it's almost like 00:09:23.179 --> 00:09:25.919 a birthright for him. Maybe. It suggests he has 00:09:25.919 --> 00:09:27.919 both the intellectual grounding and this kind 00:09:27.919 --> 00:09:30.440 of deep, almost familial connection to play all 00:09:30.440 --> 00:09:32.679 these different American cultural roles authentically. 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:35.559 Interesting angle. Speaking of authenticity, 00:09:35.899 --> 00:09:38.919 let's trace his rise, starting with this stage, 00:09:39.100 --> 00:09:41.559 which really feels like the core of his artistic 00:09:41.559 --> 00:09:44.080 identity, doesn't it? Absolutely. The thespian 00:09:44.080 --> 00:09:47.120 core. So we're looking at roughly 1972 to 1995. 00:09:48.009 --> 00:09:50.370 This period where he just dominates Broadway 00:09:50.370 --> 00:09:53.490 almost immediately and then gets massive film 00:09:53.490 --> 00:09:56.389 recognition. His professional launch was, frankly, 00:09:56.549 --> 00:10:00.730 explosive. Made his Broadway debut in 73. David 00:10:00.730 --> 00:10:03.250 Story's play, The Changing Room. And the reaction. 00:10:03.570 --> 00:10:06.210 Immediate. Overwhelming. He won his very first 00:10:06.210 --> 00:10:08.789 Tony Award right there. Best featured actor in 00:10:08.789 --> 00:10:11.500 a play. And a Drama Desk Award, too. For his 00:10:11.500 --> 00:10:14.580 debut, that's incredibly rare. It just signals 00:10:14.580 --> 00:10:18.000 that all that training, Harvard, LAMDA, the radio 00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:20.580 work, it paid off instantly. The discipline was 00:10:20.580 --> 00:10:23.019 there. Totally. And that success kept him focused 00:10:23.019 --> 00:10:25.279 on the stage initially. He did major work in 00:10:25.279 --> 00:10:27.399 other plays, like My Fat Friend opposite Lynn 00:10:27.399 --> 00:10:29.480 Redgrave. And more Tony nominations followed. 00:10:29.600 --> 00:10:32.360 Yep. He was nominated again in 1985 for Requiem 00:10:32.360 --> 00:10:34.480 for a Heavyweight. That was written by Rod Serling, 00:10:34.539 --> 00:10:36.750 actually. Wow, the Twilight Zone creator. The 00:10:36.750 --> 00:10:39.470 very same. Then came that critically acclaimed 00:10:39.470 --> 00:10:42.850 run in M. Butterfly in 1988 opposite B .D. Wong. 00:10:43.169 --> 00:10:45.470 Got another Tony nomination for that. So the 00:10:45.470 --> 00:10:47.870 stage wasn't just a launch pad. It was his anchor, 00:10:47.970 --> 00:10:51.149 his home base. Absolutely. But while he was conquering 00:10:51.149 --> 00:10:54.309 Broadway, he was also quietly building this parallel 00:10:54.309 --> 00:10:57.649 career in film. And that really exploded in the 00:10:57.649 --> 00:10:59.490 early 80s. What was the turning point there? 00:10:59.950 --> 00:11:02.990 Well, his film debut was actually 72 in a movie 00:11:02.990 --> 00:11:05.830 called Dealing or the Berkeley to Boston 40 brick 00:11:05.830 --> 00:11:09.169 lost bag blues. Bit of a mouthful. Yeah, just 00:11:09.169 --> 00:11:11.730 rolls off the tongue. But he gained serious traction 00:11:11.730 --> 00:11:14.049 playing a character based loosely on the choreographer 00:11:14.049 --> 00:11:16.230 Michael Bennett in Bob Fosse's All That Jazz 00:11:16.230 --> 00:11:20.090 in 1979. Oh, right. Great film. Intense. Super 00:11:20.090 --> 00:11:22.590 intense. And that role alone showed he could 00:11:22.590 --> 00:11:25.549 handle Fosse's really complex mix of, you know, 00:11:25.549 --> 00:11:28.490 musicality, drama, psychological depth. And this 00:11:28.490 --> 00:11:30.710 leads us right into the period that cemented 00:11:30.710 --> 00:11:33.289 his screen credibility. Those back -to -back 00:11:33.289 --> 00:11:35.710 Oscar nominations. Yeah, it's such a testament 00:11:35.710 --> 00:11:37.629 to his range that these nominations came for 00:11:37.629 --> 00:11:40.629 two completely different kinds of performances, 00:11:40.909 --> 00:11:44.769 both emotionally rich, but so distinct. First 00:11:44.769 --> 00:11:49.000 one was 82, The World According to Garp. Playing 00:11:49.000 --> 00:11:52.019 Roberta Muldoon, the transgender ex -football 00:11:52.019 --> 00:11:54.919 player. A groundbreaking role for its time, surely, 00:11:55.159 --> 00:11:57.779 especially in mainstream film. Absolutely. It 00:11:57.779 --> 00:12:00.120 demanded incredible sensitivity, real emotional 00:12:00.120 --> 00:12:02.840 honesty. He had to portray this character who 00:12:02.840 --> 00:12:05.620 was, let's face it, often misunderstood or even 00:12:05.620 --> 00:12:08.120 caricatured back then. How did he manage to make 00:12:08.120 --> 00:12:11.440 it so moving, so sensitive, rather than, you 00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:14.169 know, playing it for laughs or shock value? I 00:12:14.169 --> 00:12:15.950 think it comes back to that intellectual approach, 00:12:16.070 --> 00:12:17.610 that respect for the character's complexity. 00:12:17.950 --> 00:12:21.029 He approached Roberta as a fully realized human 00:12:21.029 --> 00:12:23.830 being. Focused on her internal life, her dignity, 00:12:24.009 --> 00:12:26.129 not just the external transformation. And the 00:12:26.129 --> 00:12:28.549 nomination itself was a huge validation of that 00:12:28.549 --> 00:12:30.929 nuanced approach. Definitely. It showed he could 00:12:30.929 --> 00:12:33.350 access that profound emotional depth right away 00:12:33.350 --> 00:12:36.470 on screen. And then, incredibly, he follows that 00:12:36.470 --> 00:12:39.269 up the very next year, 1983, with another nomination. 00:12:39.629 --> 00:12:42.129 Second consecutive nod for Best Supporting Actor, 00:12:42.330 --> 00:12:44.730 this time for Terms of Endearment. Plain Sam 00:12:44.730 --> 00:12:47.990 Burns, the quiet, lonely banker who has the affair 00:12:47.990 --> 00:12:51.200 with Debra Winger's character. Oh, Shirley MacLaine's 00:12:51.200 --> 00:12:53.120 character. Right. Shirley MacLaine's character, 00:12:53.320 --> 00:12:56.080 Emma, he provides this sort of quiet, grounded 00:12:56.080 --> 00:12:59.840 counterpoint to her chaotic life. That contrast 00:12:59.840 --> 00:13:03.419 is just amazing. From the pioneering, life -altering 00:13:03.419 --> 00:13:06.159 journey of Roberta Muldoon. To the understated, 00:13:06.159 --> 00:13:09.179 almost mundane, relatable sadness of Sam Burns. 00:13:09.460 --> 00:13:12.779 Those two roles back -to -back, they really cemented 00:13:12.779 --> 00:13:15.179 his reputation, didn't they? As this dynamic... 00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:18.840 emotionally articulate, super reliable screen 00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:21.120 actor, no matter the genre. Totally. He could 00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:22.960 do anything. And the rest of the 80s proved it. 00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:24.799 It was like an absolute genre playground for 00:13:24.799 --> 00:13:27.120 him, just showcasing that ability to jump between 00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:30.220 high art and, well, pure, sometimes frantic entertainment. 00:13:30.700 --> 00:13:32.639 Okay, so let's talk about that 80s run. Where 00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:35.419 does he go after the Oscar nods? Well, the transition 00:13:35.419 --> 00:13:38.539 from respected nominee to genuine horror icon 00:13:38.539 --> 00:13:41.820 happened pretty quickly. 1983, Twilight Zone, 00:13:42.039 --> 00:13:44.659 the movie. Ah, yes. Nightmare at 20 ,000 Feet. 00:13:45.100 --> 00:13:47.460 The gremlin on the wing. He plays that terrified 00:13:47.460 --> 00:13:49.980 passenger, John Valentine. And his performance 00:13:49.980 --> 00:13:53.279 is just sheer, unadulterated psychological terror. 00:13:53.480 --> 00:13:55.799 It's riveting. He actually said in an interview, 00:13:55.860 --> 00:13:58.200 I think, with Bill Moyers that this was his favorite 00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:00.600 film role he ever did. And that tells you so 00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:02.740 much, doesn't it? He loves roles that demand 00:14:02.740 --> 00:14:06.720 that total, almost unhinged commitment to a specific 00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:10.220 psychological state. The anxiety, the manic energy 00:14:10.220 --> 00:14:13.200 he sustains. It's incredible. Then, the very 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:17.120 next year. 1984, he delivers maybe the ultimate 00:14:17.120 --> 00:14:20.539 high camp sci -fi villain performance. Dr. Emilio 00:14:20.539 --> 00:14:24.120 Lizardo slash Lord John Worfen. In the adventures 00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:26.360 of Buckaroo Banzai across the eighth dimension. 00:14:26.600 --> 00:14:29.100 An absolute cult classic. And that performance 00:14:29.100 --> 00:14:31.240 is the polar opposite of the contained terror 00:14:31.240 --> 00:14:33.779 in Twilight Zone. Totally. It's bizarre. It's 00:14:33.779 --> 00:14:36.100 over the top. Slightly cartoonish, maybe, but 00:14:36.100 --> 00:14:38.360 delivered with absolute unwavering commitment. 00:14:38.559 --> 00:14:40.580 He just goes for it. It proves he understands 00:14:40.580 --> 00:14:42.899 perfectly when a performance needs to lean into 00:14:42.899 --> 00:14:45.820 theatricality, into absurdism. He was also in 00:14:45.820 --> 00:14:47.980 a more mainstream sci -fi film that same year, 00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:50.559 wasn't he? Yeah, the big sequel, 2010, The Year 00:14:50.559 --> 00:14:54.120 We Make Contact, played Dr. Walter Kernow. More 00:14:54.120 --> 00:14:56.679 grounded, but still in that sci -fi realm. And 00:14:56.679 --> 00:14:58.620 we can't forget, even amidst the genre stuff, 00:14:58.759 --> 00:15:01.100 he was still touching on serious themes. That 00:15:01.100 --> 00:15:03.799 minor but impactful role in The Day After. Right, 00:15:03.879 --> 00:15:06.779 1983, the TV movie about nuclear apocalypse. 00:15:07.179 --> 00:15:10.000 Huge cultural event at the time. And he got an 00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:11.820 Emmy nomination for that, even for a smaller 00:15:11.820 --> 00:15:14.620 part. Shows his ability to contribute meaningfully 00:15:14.620 --> 00:15:17.519 to serious social commentary. And this period 00:15:17.519 --> 00:15:19.919 also loops back to his early radio experience. 00:15:19.940 --> 00:15:24.059 Remember WBAI? Oh, yeah. How so? He voiced Yoda. 00:15:24.399 --> 00:15:27.940 Get out. Really? Yep. In the classic NTR radio 00:15:27.940 --> 00:15:30.399 drama adaptations of The Empire Strikes Back 00:15:30.399 --> 00:15:32.559 and Return of the Jedi. That's fantastic. What 00:15:32.559 --> 00:15:35.000 a great piece of trivia. It shows his versatility, 00:15:35.080 --> 00:15:37.639 again, using just his voice to create such an 00:15:37.639 --> 00:15:40.480 iconic character. Exactly. Not relying on visuals 00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:43.659 at all. Pure vocal performance. Okay, so as we 00:15:43.659 --> 00:15:47.480 move out of the 80s and into the 90s, his villainous 00:15:47.480 --> 00:15:50.600 streak, it seems to continue, maybe even intensify. 00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:53.360 especially in action and thrillers. Absolutely. 00:15:53.419 --> 00:15:56.440 He really embraced playing the dangerous antagonist. 00:15:56.480 --> 00:15:59.460 In 91, he was terrifying opposite Denzel Washington 00:15:59.460 --> 00:16:02.139 in Ricochet, played the criminal Earl Talbot 00:16:02.139 --> 00:16:04.779 Blake. Vicious role. Really nasty. Then came 00:16:04.779 --> 00:16:07.379 the Brian De Palma thriller Raising Cain in 92. 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:09.379 Where he played a guy with multiple personality 00:16:09.379 --> 00:16:12.179 disorder. Right, which for an actor like him 00:16:12.179 --> 00:16:14.549 is like a gift, isn't it? allowed him to explore 00:16:14.549 --> 00:16:17.169 several distinct characters within one physical 00:16:17.169 --> 00:16:20.649 body, a real acting showcase. And then the big 00:16:20.649 --> 00:16:24.490 one, the blockbuster action villain role. Eric 00:16:24.490 --> 00:16:27.649 Qualen, the sophisticated, ruthless terrorist 00:16:27.649 --> 00:16:30.370 leader in Cliffhanger. Opposites to Lone, 1993, 00:16:30.929 --> 00:16:34.909 high -altitude thrills. He was the perfect 90s 00:16:34.909 --> 00:16:38.809 bad guy, intelligent, articulate. but utterly 00:16:38.809 --> 00:16:41.549 without mercy. He really nailed that archetype, 00:16:41.549 --> 00:16:43.889 but even amidst all the action and thrills, the 00:16:43.889 --> 00:16:46.049 weight of history pulls him back again, connecting 00:16:46.049 --> 00:16:48.330 to that academic background. How so this time? 00:16:48.590 --> 00:16:51.769 1994. He portrays President Franklin Delano Roosevelt. 00:16:52.509 --> 00:16:55.450 Wow. And what? An NBC miniseries called World 00:16:55.450 --> 00:16:58.009 War II, when lions roared, starred alongside 00:16:58.009 --> 00:17:00.929 Michael Caine as Stalin and Bob Hoskins as Churchill. 00:17:01.149 --> 00:17:04.190 Talk about a heavyweight cast. That's huge. Tackling 00:17:04.190 --> 00:17:05.890 FDR, that's stepping into massive historical 00:17:05.890 --> 00:17:08.369 shoes. How did he prepare for a role like that, 00:17:08.430 --> 00:17:10.589 an icon everyone recognizes? Immense commitment, 00:17:10.829 --> 00:17:13.609 both physically and historically. To mirror FDR's 00:17:13.609 --> 00:17:15.910 paralysis from polio, Lithgow actually wore these 00:17:15.910 --> 00:17:18.470 heavy, cumbersome leg braces throughout the filming. 00:17:18.549 --> 00:17:20.890 That kind of physical transformation, we see 00:17:20.890 --> 00:17:23.210 it again later with Churchill. He's not afraid 00:17:23.210 --> 00:17:25.130 of the practical discomfort if it helps embody 00:17:25.130 --> 00:17:27.730 the character. Exactly. And he spoke about the 00:17:27.730 --> 00:17:30.789 pressure, too. The weight of playing such a revered 00:17:30.789 --> 00:17:32.910 figure. He mentioned that when he told his mother 00:17:32.910 --> 00:17:35.230 he got the role, she apparently burst into tears. 00:17:35.450 --> 00:17:37.809 Wow. Just shows the emotional significance it 00:17:37.809 --> 00:17:40.509 held, even within his own family. So that ability 00:17:40.509 --> 00:17:44.150 to handle intense prep, high expectations, deep 00:17:44.150 --> 00:17:47.470 historical context. That really sets the stage 00:17:47.470 --> 00:17:49.549 perfectly for his next phase, the phase where 00:17:49.549 --> 00:17:51.710 he becomes a true household name, an established 00:17:51.710 --> 00:17:54.869 icon across all mediums. Right. Let's pivot now 00:17:54.869 --> 00:17:58.630 to that period, say 1996 through to about 2015. 00:17:59.009 --> 00:18:01.329 Okay. And this phase really kicks off with the 00:18:01.329 --> 00:18:03.910 role that for a whole generation of TV viewers 00:18:03.910 --> 00:18:06.650 is John Lithgow. Dr. Dick Solomon. Dr. Dick Solomon, 00:18:06.890 --> 00:18:09.769 high commander of the alien expedition, NBC sitcom 00:18:09.769 --> 00:18:13.490 Third Rock from the Sun, ran from 96 to 2001. 00:18:13.869 --> 00:18:16.250 It was such a bizarre concept. it worked brilliantly. 00:18:16.369 --> 00:18:19.910 Aliens trying and mostly failing to understand 00:18:19.910 --> 00:18:24.190 basic human life. and his performance it required 00:18:24.190 --> 00:18:26.609 this incredible amount of physical comedy really 00:18:26.609 --> 00:18:30.769 stylized movements big facial expressions a complete 00:18:30.769 --> 00:18:34.309 180 from the contained menace of qualen or blake 00:18:34.309 --> 00:18:36.390 you really see the stage training coming through 00:18:36.390 --> 00:18:38.829 there don't you absolutely that kind of high 00:18:38.829 --> 00:18:41.769 level physical comedy it needs incredible precision 00:18:41.769 --> 00:18:46.230 timing control stamina his serious theater background 00:18:46.230 --> 00:18:49.769 actually enabled him to pull off the manic exaggerated 00:18:49.769 --> 00:18:53.400 movements of an alien commander who's like piloting 00:18:53.400 --> 00:18:55.539 a human body doesn't quite understand. And the 00:18:55.539 --> 00:18:57.460 awards voters noticed. Big time. Yeah, yeah. 00:18:57.599 --> 00:19:00.900 Six consecutive Emmy nominations for Outstanding 00:19:00.900 --> 00:19:03.599 Lead Actor in a Comedy Series. Every single year 00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:05.339 the show is on the air. And he won three times, 00:19:05.380 --> 00:19:10.119 right? Three wins. 1996, 1997, and 1999. It's 00:19:10.119 --> 00:19:12.180 genuinely hard to think of another actor who 00:19:12.180 --> 00:19:14.680 made that specific pivot so successfully. From 00:19:14.680 --> 00:19:16.740 two back -to -back dramatic Oscar nominations. 00:19:17.099 --> 00:19:19.319 To winning three Emmys in four years for this 00:19:19.319 --> 00:19:21.900 wild, high -concept physical comedy. It's just 00:19:21.900 --> 00:19:23.779 extraordinary range. And wasn't his son on the 00:19:23.779 --> 00:19:25.740 show too? Yeah, just a nice little detail. His 00:19:25.740 --> 00:19:28.700 son, Ian Lithgow, appeared regularly as Leon, 00:19:28.920 --> 00:19:32.539 one of Dick's physics students. Nice. Okay, so 00:19:32.539 --> 00:19:35.640 hot on the heels of Third Rock wrapping up 2001 00:19:35.640 --> 00:19:41.380 comes this voice acting role. that became, well, 00:19:41.559 --> 00:19:44.579 unexpectedly massive. Totally massive. And apparently 00:19:44.579 --> 00:19:47.000 nobody saw it coming. Least of all Lithgow himself. 00:19:47.460 --> 00:19:50.079 Lord Farquaad. Lord Farquaad, the diminutive, 00:19:50.279 --> 00:19:53.380 power -hungry, hilarious villain in DreamWorks 00:19:53.380 --> 00:19:55.140 Shrek. And the story behind that is pretty funny, 00:19:55.180 --> 00:19:56.950 right? Yeah, the anecdote is great. It really 00:19:56.950 --> 00:19:59.089 reveals how much the animation landscape was 00:19:59.089 --> 00:20:01.190 changing then. Lithgow admitted he initially 00:20:01.190 --> 00:20:03.529 just thought it was, quote, like a Saturday morning 00:20:03.529 --> 00:20:06.210 cartoon. You know, not a big deal. He didn't 00:20:06.210 --> 00:20:07.990 realize it would be a phenomenon. Not at all, 00:20:07.990 --> 00:20:10.450 because the production took so long with lots 00:20:10.450 --> 00:20:13.230 of delays. He apparently just came back once 00:20:13.230 --> 00:20:15.549 every eight months or so to record some new material. 00:20:15.609 --> 00:20:18.269 He had no idea it was going to become this global 00:20:18.269 --> 00:20:20.710 mega hit. But his vocal performance was instantly 00:20:20.710 --> 00:20:23.509 iconic. Critics loved it. They did. They often 00:20:23.509 --> 00:20:25.690 compared his delivery of that kind of delicious, 00:20:25.829 --> 00:20:28.490 sophisticated, slightly theatrical villainy to 00:20:28.490 --> 00:20:31.869 actors like Kelsey Grammer or Alan Rickman, masters 00:20:31.869 --> 00:20:35.430 of the voice. He managed to convey all that arrogance, 00:20:35.650 --> 00:20:37.750 the pettiness, the ambition just through his 00:20:37.750 --> 00:20:40.369 voice. Incredible. But even while conquering 00:20:40.369 --> 00:20:43.230 TV comedy and blockbuster animation, the stage 00:20:43.230 --> 00:20:45.809 was always calling him back. It remained his 00:20:45.809 --> 00:20:48.150 artistic center. So he returns to Broadway. In 00:20:48.150 --> 00:20:50.450 2002. And proves he can handle musical theater, 00:20:50.549 --> 00:20:53.759 too. He wins his second Tony Award. Second Tony, 00:20:53.900 --> 00:20:56.720 this time four. Best leading actor in a musical 00:20:56.720 --> 00:20:59.839 for Sweet Smell of Success. Playing J .J. Hunsaker. 00:21:00.809 --> 00:21:03.769 The cynical, powerful newspaper columnist. Right. 00:21:03.849 --> 00:21:06.970 A character worlds away from Dick Solomon. Deeply 00:21:06.970 --> 00:21:09.750 bitter, manipulative, dark. How demanding is 00:21:09.750 --> 00:21:12.069 that switch? Going from that high -energy sitcom 00:21:12.069 --> 00:21:15.529 grind to carrying a complex musical drama like 00:21:15.529 --> 00:21:17.349 that. It requires completely different muscles, 00:21:17.609 --> 00:21:20.230 artistically speaking. Hunsecker needed serious 00:21:20.230 --> 00:21:23.349 vocal control for the songs, that dramatic gravitas 00:21:23.349 --> 00:21:26.029 for the character, and the sheer physical discipline 00:21:26.029 --> 00:21:28.549 of doing eight shows a week in a musical. His 00:21:28.549 --> 00:21:30.549 dedication to theater just shines through. He 00:21:30.549 --> 00:21:32.309 got another nomination soon after, didn't he? 00:21:32.410 --> 00:21:35.789 Yeah, a few years later, 2005, for the musical 00:21:35.789 --> 00:21:39.049 comedy Dirty Rotten Scoundrels. Though in a fun 00:21:39.049 --> 00:21:41.470 twist, he actually lost the Tony that year to 00:21:41.470 --> 00:21:44.329 his co -star Norbert Leo Butz. Still, that commitment 00:21:44.329 --> 00:21:46.529 to the stage was formally recognized around then, 00:21:46.569 --> 00:21:49.329 too. Yes. He was inducted into the American Theatre 00:21:49.329 --> 00:21:52.549 Hall of Fame in 2005, which acknowledged not 00:21:52.549 --> 00:21:54.750 just his work in straight plays, but also his 00:21:54.750 --> 00:21:57.380 surprising work in opera. He'd performed in productions 00:21:57.380 --> 00:22:00.839 by Verdi and Wagner. Opera too. Is there anything 00:22:00.839 --> 00:22:03.420 he can't do? Apparently not. And that same year, 00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:06.940 2005, really highlights that unique blend he 00:22:06.940 --> 00:22:09.079 has, the performer and the intellectual. Oh, 00:22:09.099 --> 00:22:11.400 so. He went back to his alma mater, Harvard, 00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:14.259 and became the first actor ever invited to deliver 00:22:14.259 --> 00:22:16.940 the main commencement speech. Wow. That's usually 00:22:16.940 --> 00:22:19.259 reserved for presidents, Nobel laureates, CEOs. 00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:21.559 Exactly. It was a huge honor. And Harvard also 00:22:21.559 --> 00:22:23.579 gave him an honorary doctor of arts degree that 00:22:23.579 --> 00:22:26.200 day. Okay, so we've got the lovable alien, the 00:22:26.200 --> 00:22:29.359 Broadway star, the respected intellectual. And 00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:31.779 then, just as maybe audiences were getting comfortable 00:22:31.779 --> 00:22:34.900 with that image, he delivered a performance so 00:22:34.900 --> 00:22:37.319 chilling, it completely redefined his dramatic 00:22:37.319 --> 00:22:39.859 side for a whole new generation. The Trinity 00:22:39.859 --> 00:22:43.559 Killer. Arthur Mitchell. Dexter Morgan's terrifying 00:22:43.559 --> 00:22:47.180 nemesis in the 2009 season of Dexter. This role, 00:22:47.299 --> 00:22:50.039 maybe more than any other single role, just shattered 00:22:50.039 --> 00:22:52.359 whatever lingering public perception there was 00:22:52.359 --> 00:22:55.140 of John Lithgow as primarily a comedic actor. 00:22:55.420 --> 00:22:57.720 It showed he could harness that quiet intensity 00:22:57.720 --> 00:23:01.019 we saw way back in terms of Endearment or even 00:23:01.019 --> 00:23:04.240 Raising Cain. But infuse it with this deep, chilling, 00:23:04.380 --> 00:23:06.900 terrifying malice. The horror of Arthur Mitchell 00:23:06.900 --> 00:23:10.049 was that duality, wasn't it? The outwardly normal, 00:23:10.230 --> 00:23:12.329 pious family man, the Sunday school teacher. 00:23:12.569 --> 00:23:15.309 Who was secretly this meticulous, radialistic 00:23:15.309 --> 00:23:17.890 serial killer, operating completely under the 00:23:17.890 --> 00:23:21.009 radar for decades. His performance was a masterclass 00:23:21.009 --> 00:23:23.990 in controlled menace. Total containment. His 00:23:23.990 --> 00:23:26.349 approach felt almost clinical, highlighting the 00:23:26.349 --> 00:23:28.609 structure, the control that Arthur Mitchell exerted 00:23:28.609 --> 00:23:31.190 over his double life. And it resonated so deeply 00:23:31.190 --> 00:23:33.349 because it tapped into that fear of the ordinary 00:23:33.349 --> 00:23:36.549 turning monstrous, the monster next door. And 00:23:36.549 --> 00:23:39.250 again, the awards followed. A Golden Globe for 00:23:39.250 --> 00:23:42.730 this role. Yep. Golden Globe Award. And another 00:23:42.730 --> 00:23:45.509 Primetime Emmy Award, this time for Outstanding 00:23:45.509 --> 00:23:49.049 Guest Actor in a Drama Series. He even came back 00:23:49.049 --> 00:23:52.069 briefly for the Revival Series in 2021. You want 00:23:52.069 --> 00:23:54.150 the ultimate career contrast. Just put those 00:23:54.150 --> 00:23:56.849 Emmy wins side by side. Right. The triple Emmy 00:23:56.849 --> 00:23:59.650 winning manic physical comedy of Dick Solomon. 00:23:59.890 --> 00:24:02.710 And the Globe. and Emmy -winning, tightly controlled, 00:24:02.890 --> 00:24:05.950 psychopathic terror of Arthur Mitchell. It perfectly 00:24:05.950 --> 00:24:08.150 illustrates the whole point of this deep dive, 00:24:08.269 --> 00:24:10.329 doesn't it? His chameleonic talent isn't just 00:24:10.329 --> 00:24:13.089 superficial. It's about diving deep into the 00:24:13.089 --> 00:24:15.509 psychological structure of a character, whether 00:24:15.509 --> 00:24:18.049 that character operates on, you know, comedic 00:24:18.049 --> 00:24:21.690 alien logic or pure cold sociopathy. But this 00:24:21.690 --> 00:24:24.609 era wasn't all just dark TV drama. He kept the 00:24:24.609 --> 00:24:27.009 stage work going, too. Absolutely. He maintained 00:24:27.009 --> 00:24:29.150 that theatrical commitment, played the big one, 00:24:29.210 --> 00:24:31.839 Shakespeare's King Lear. title role. Where was 00:24:31.839 --> 00:24:34.460 that? In 2014 at Shakespeare in the Park in New 00:24:34.460 --> 00:24:36.339 York, which was actually his first time performing 00:24:36.339 --> 00:24:39.359 there since way back in 1975. A big return. And 00:24:39.359 --> 00:24:40.859 he was still championing smaller independent 00:24:40.859 --> 00:24:43.680 films too, right? Yes. Showing his support for 00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:45.779 complex, character -driven indie filmmaking. 00:24:46.299 --> 00:24:50.119 Around that same time, 2014, he got a lot of 00:24:50.119 --> 00:24:52.460 critical attention for his role opposite Alfred 00:24:52.460 --> 00:24:55.039 Molina in Love is Strange. Oh, I remember that 00:24:55.039 --> 00:24:58.279 film. Beautifully done. About an older gay couple 00:24:58.279 --> 00:25:00.140 facing difficulties after finally getting getting 00:25:00.140 --> 00:25:02.880 married. Exactly. It got great reviews, something 00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:06.220 like 94 percent on Rotten Tomatoes, four Independent 00:25:06.220 --> 00:25:09.700 Spirit Award nominations. Critics really praised 00:25:09.700 --> 00:25:12.619 the graceful, sensitive portrayal of this long 00:25:12.619 --> 00:25:15.279 term relationship by both him and Molina. It 00:25:15.279 --> 00:25:17.559 just shows that his star power, his recognizability 00:25:17.559 --> 00:25:20.000 could help elevate these smaller, important films 00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:22.660 alongside the big blockbusters and hit TV shows. 00:25:22.819 --> 00:25:25.099 It confirms that pattern we see throughout his 00:25:25.099 --> 00:25:27.960 career. He seems to use the visibility and frankly, 00:25:28.059 --> 00:25:30.130 the financial success from his TV and film work 00:25:30.130 --> 00:25:32.950 to sustain and enable the more demanding, often 00:25:32.950 --> 00:25:35.349 less commercial artistic work that clearly feeds 00:25:35.349 --> 00:25:38.130 his curiosity, like stage work or indie film. 00:25:38.309 --> 00:25:40.450 Which brings us neatly into his most recent phase, 00:25:40.630 --> 00:25:44.029 say 2016 to the present. This period feels marked 00:25:44.029 --> 00:25:46.569 by incredibly high prestige projects, a lot of 00:25:46.569 --> 00:25:48.970 historical transformation, and even direct political 00:25:48.970 --> 00:25:51.369 commentary. Definitely. And the role that really 00:25:51.369 --> 00:25:53.589 defined this later career prestige, especially 00:25:53.589 --> 00:25:56.069 for the huge global streaming audiences, has 00:25:56.069 --> 00:25:58.170 to be Winston Churchill. And Netflix is the crown. 00:25:58.750 --> 00:26:02.369 Season 1, 2016. Right. And for this, bang, another 00:26:02.369 --> 00:26:05.329 Primetime Emmy Award. And a Screen Actors Guild 00:26:05.329 --> 00:26:07.829 Award, too. Outstanding supporting actor in a 00:26:07.829 --> 00:26:11.089 drama series for both. Taking on Churchill. That's 00:26:11.089 --> 00:26:14.769 maybe even bigger than FDR. So many iconic portrayals 00:26:14.769 --> 00:26:17.390 already exist. You're inviting constant comparison. 00:26:17.690 --> 00:26:20.529 How did he approach it? He said he had... No 00:26:20.529 --> 00:26:22.829 hesitation about taking the role, which is pretty 00:26:22.829 --> 00:26:25.390 bold. But he did his homework. Extensive research, 00:26:25.529 --> 00:26:27.690 reading biographies, watching archival footage, 00:26:27.910 --> 00:26:30.069 listening to speeches. But the physical transformation 00:26:30.069 --> 00:26:32.809 must have been immense. Oh, huge. That was perhaps 00:26:32.809 --> 00:26:34.970 the most challenging part. He apparently spent 00:26:34.970 --> 00:26:37.630 two full days just getting fitted for the necessary 00:26:37.630 --> 00:26:40.559 fat suit, the wig, and even the special... Mouth 00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:42.960 plumpers? Mouth plumpers. To change his speech. 00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:45.700 Exactly. Designed to help mimic Churchill's very 00:26:45.700 --> 00:26:48.279 specific cadence and diction, the slight jolliness. 00:26:48.599 --> 00:26:51.720 That level of commitment to physical alteration, 00:26:51.720 --> 00:26:54.519 it's a hallmark of his work, isn't it? He's not 00:26:54.519 --> 00:26:56.420 afraid of the makeup chair, the prosthetics, 00:26:56.460 --> 00:26:59.680 the discomfort. It helps them find the character's 00:26:59.680 --> 00:27:01.819 essence. Totally. And the performance itself 00:27:01.819 --> 00:27:03.619 was lauded because it wasn't just imitation. 00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:06.559 It was layered. He captured not just the famous 00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:09.539 wartime leaders, bombast and strength, but also 00:27:09.539 --> 00:27:11.619 the complexities. Yeah. The vulnerability of 00:27:11.619 --> 00:27:15.019 a great man aging, grappling with potential irrelevance 00:27:15.019 --> 00:27:18.119 after the war, battling his black dog, his depression. 00:27:18.279 --> 00:27:21.480 It felt like a performance rooted again in that 00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:23.460 deep understanding of history and psychology. 00:27:23.720 --> 00:27:26.039 Thanks to that academic background. And around 00:27:26.039 --> 00:27:28.279 the same time, we see this other fascinating 00:27:28.279 --> 00:27:31.539 shift. Lithgow, the intellectual, the observer, 00:27:31.779 --> 00:27:35.500 starts moving into direct political satire, using 00:27:35.500 --> 00:27:37.819 his art to comment on the contemporary American 00:27:37.819 --> 00:27:40.559 scene. Which is pretty unusual for an actor of 00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:42.380 his stature and generation, right? Yes. To be 00:27:42.380 --> 00:27:45.359 so overtly topical. Very. So what form did this 00:27:45.359 --> 00:27:48.279 take? Well, he authored books. Two books of satirical 00:27:48.279 --> 00:27:50.460 poems focused squarely on the Trump administration. 00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:55.240 Really? Poetry? Yep. Dumpty. The Age of Trump 00:27:55.240 --> 00:27:58.299 Inverse came out of 2019. It was actually a bestseller 00:27:58.299 --> 00:28:00.960 hit number three on the New York Times hardcover 00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:03.680 nonfiction list. Wow. And then he followed it 00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:05.900 up with Trumpty Dumpty Wanted a Crown in 2020. 00:28:06.220 --> 00:28:08.079 He didn't just write, though. He used performance, 00:28:08.180 --> 00:28:10.740 too, didn't he? Oh, yeah. He played Donald Trump 00:28:10.740 --> 00:28:12.839 in a live reading of excerpts from the Mueller 00:28:12.839 --> 00:28:15.779 report in 2019. It was called The Investigation, 00:28:16.039 --> 00:28:18.880 A Search for the Truth in 10 Acts. And he became 00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:22.140 a fixture on late night TV for a while. portraying 00:28:22.140 --> 00:28:25.119 Rudy Giuliani. In a whole series of recurring 00:28:25.119 --> 00:28:27.140 sketches on The Late Show with Stephen Colbert, 00:28:27.339 --> 00:28:31.180 he completely nailed Giuliani's mannerisms around 00:28:31.180 --> 00:28:33.660 that time. He also lent his voice to that parody 00:28:33.660 --> 00:28:35.880 children's book. Right, the audiobook version 00:28:35.880 --> 00:28:38.440 of A Day in the Life of Marlon Bundo, the book 00:28:38.440 --> 00:28:41.400 that gently satirized Mike Pence's family rabbit 00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:44.559 book by telling a story about a gay rabbit. So 00:28:44.559 --> 00:28:46.740 he's really putting his recognizable voice and 00:28:46.740 --> 00:28:49.200 versatile talents right into the middle of immediate 00:28:49.200 --> 00:28:51.920 cultural and political conversations. Fearlessly, 00:28:52.039 --> 00:28:54.819 it seems. But shifting back to more traditional 00:28:54.819 --> 00:28:58.059 dramatic roles, he took on another really complex, 00:28:58.119 --> 00:29:00.380 controversial figure from the political media 00:29:00.380 --> 00:29:02.980 world. Roger Hills. Roger Hills, the Fox News 00:29:02.980 --> 00:29:07.119 CEO, in the 2019 film Bombshell. Another figure 00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:10.539 who inspired intense loyalty from some and utter 00:29:10.539 --> 00:29:14.319 condemnation from others. How did Lithgow approach 00:29:14.319 --> 00:29:17.599 that minefield? He was very clear about his intention. 00:29:17.920 --> 00:29:20.819 He stated publicly that his goal with the portrayal 00:29:20.819 --> 00:29:24.039 was specifically, quote, to trouble people, unsettle 00:29:24.039 --> 00:29:25.619 people with the fact that they shouldn't have 00:29:25.619 --> 00:29:28.420 sympathy for the devil. So he wasn't trying to 00:29:28.420 --> 00:29:30.710 find the good in ales. Doesn't sound like it. 00:29:30.730 --> 00:29:33.150 It shows an actor really thinking about the narrative 00:29:33.150 --> 00:29:35.730 impact, the moral responsibility of portraying 00:29:35.730 --> 00:29:38.710 someone so powerful and polarizing. He wanted 00:29:38.710 --> 00:29:40.750 the audience to confront the difficult reality 00:29:40.750 --> 00:29:43.450 of the man's actions, not find easy empathy. 00:29:43.769 --> 00:29:46.210 And he's kept up this incredible pace of high 00:29:46.210 --> 00:29:48.990 profile, dramatic work just in the last few years. 00:29:49.170 --> 00:29:51.769 Absolutely. He was great as the sort of fading 00:29:51.769 --> 00:29:54.690 old guard lawyer, Elias Burchard, E .B. Jonathan 00:29:54.690 --> 00:29:58.089 in HBO's Perry Mason reboot back in 2020. And 00:29:58.089 --> 00:30:01.190 then he stars. opposite Jeff Bridges in that 00:30:01.190 --> 00:30:04.220 excellent Hulu thriller The Old Man. in 2022 00:30:04.220 --> 00:30:06.920 right playing the fbi assistant director harold 00:30:06.920 --> 00:30:09.160 harper got another golden globe nomination for 00:30:09.160 --> 00:30:12.039 that his ability to just anchor these prestige 00:30:12.039 --> 00:30:14.819 streaming dramas often playing these morally 00:30:14.819 --> 00:30:18.200 complex ambiguous characters shows his appeal 00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:21.740 is still incredibly strong with top tier creators 00:30:21.740 --> 00:30:25.160 and he popped up in scorsese's huge epic yep 00:30:25.160 --> 00:30:27.859 join the incredible cast of martin scorsese's 00:30:27.859 --> 00:30:31.009 killers of the flower moon in 2023 plain prosecutor 00:30:31.009 --> 00:30:35.089 leeward and just recently in 2024 another intriguing 00:30:35.089 --> 00:30:38.150 film role conclave the conspiracy thriller set 00:30:38.150 --> 00:30:41.210 during a papal election he plays one of the cardinals 00:30:41.210 --> 00:30:43.930 cardinal trembley critics called his performance 00:30:43.930 --> 00:30:47.109 intriguingly slippery so he still has that capacity 00:30:47.109 --> 00:30:49.829 for subtle unpredictable menace when he needs 00:30:49.829 --> 00:30:52.009 it seems so and we're still seeing him triumph 00:30:52.009 --> 00:30:55.329 on the global stage too just this year 2024 he 00:30:55.329 --> 00:30:57.490 won the lawrence olivier award for best actor 00:30:57.490 --> 00:31:00.190 london's highest theater honor For what role? 00:31:00.329 --> 00:31:02.509 For portraying the author Roald Dahl in the West 00:31:02.509 --> 00:31:05.690 End production of a play called Giant. Wow. Another 00:31:05.690 --> 00:31:08.670 major award late in his career. It just confirms 00:31:08.670 --> 00:31:11.009 his stage vitality is completely undiminished. 00:31:11.109 --> 00:31:14.410 And critics apparently noted his uncanny resemblance 00:31:14.410 --> 00:31:16.789 to the writer in the role, that physical transformation 00:31:16.789 --> 00:31:19.529 again. And looking even further ahead, he's not 00:31:19.529 --> 00:31:22.470 slowing down. He's stepping into another absolutely 00:31:22.470 --> 00:31:25.299 iconic, generation -defining role soon. It was 00:31:25.299 --> 00:31:28.220 confirmed just recently, February 20, 25, I believe. 00:31:28.279 --> 00:31:30.559 He's going to play Albus Dumbledore. Dumbledore. 00:31:30.619 --> 00:31:33.440 In the new HBO Harry Potter series. That is a 00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:36.880 massive role. Huge cultural weight. Immense expectations 00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:40.240 from fans. It solidifies his presence across 00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:42.779 yet another generation of popular culture, doesn't 00:31:42.779 --> 00:31:44.779 it? Yeah. Kids who read his children's books. 00:31:44.839 --> 00:31:48.220 Adults who watch Third Rock or The Crown. They'll 00:31:48.220 --> 00:31:50.400 all engage with his work in this new, iconic 00:31:50.400 --> 00:31:53.579 way. It's an amazing capstone, potentially, though 00:31:53.579 --> 00:31:56.240 knowing him, probably not the final one. Probably 00:31:56.240 --> 00:31:58.960 not. Okay, before we try to wrap our heads around 00:31:58.960 --> 00:32:01.339 this whole staggering career, we absolutely have 00:32:01.339 --> 00:32:03.579 to touch on his completely separate creative 00:32:03.579 --> 00:32:06.259 life. The thing that really marks him as a Renaissance 00:32:06.259 --> 00:32:09.200 man. His work for children. Exactly. Yeah. It 00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:11.039 often gets overshadowed by the acting awards, 00:32:11.180 --> 00:32:13.990 but he's a... Genuinely prolific and successful 00:32:13.990 --> 00:32:16.769 children's author. He really is. He's written 00:32:16.769 --> 00:32:19.029 and sometimes illustrated several bestsellers. 00:32:19.029 --> 00:32:22.269 Books like Marsupial Sioux, Macabre, I'm a Manatee, 00:32:22.269 --> 00:32:25.609 The Remarkable Farkle McBride. And these aren't 00:32:25.609 --> 00:32:28.069 just quick celebrity cash -ins, are they? They 00:32:28.069 --> 00:32:31.410 feel like thoughtful, often funny contributions 00:32:31.410 --> 00:32:34.450 to children's literature, often celebrating creativity, 00:32:34.690 --> 00:32:37.950 music. Precisely. And that dedication extends 00:32:37.950 --> 00:32:40.910 to performing music for children, too. He released 00:32:40.910 --> 00:32:43.410 three albums of kids' music. I remember Singing 00:32:43.410 --> 00:32:45.930 in the Bathtub from 1999. Yeah, that was the 00:32:45.930 --> 00:32:48.309 first one. Then Farkle and Friends in 2002. He 00:32:48.309 --> 00:32:50.490 dedicated that one to the country singer Waylon 00:32:50.490 --> 00:32:53.269 Jennings, oddly enough. Unexpected. And The Sunny 00:32:53.269 --> 00:32:55.490 Side of the Street in 2006. And he actually performs 00:32:55.490 --> 00:32:57.750 these songs sometimes. Makes appearances accompanying 00:32:57.750 --> 00:33:00.450 himself on guitar. What's truly unique, though, 00:33:00.509 --> 00:33:03.589 may be the absolute peak of his bizarrely diverse 00:33:03.589 --> 00:33:07.180 artistic life. is the ballet connection. It's 00:33:07.180 --> 00:33:09.720 unparalleled for an actor, surely. He wrote the 00:33:09.720 --> 00:33:11.960 narrations for a ballet by the choreographer 00:33:11.960 --> 00:33:14.319 Christopher Wheldon. It's called Carnival of 00:33:14.319 --> 00:33:16.819 the Animals. Based on the Sansan's music. Exactly. 00:33:17.039 --> 00:33:19.079 But not only did he write the narration, he actually 00:33:19.079 --> 00:33:21.839 performed in the ballet with major companies 00:33:21.839 --> 00:33:24.400 like the New York City Ballet. Doing what? Not 00:33:24.400 --> 00:33:27.279 dancing, surely? Oh, no, not plies. He played 00:33:27.279 --> 00:33:29.920 a character, an elephant named Nurse Mabel Bunce, 00:33:29.980 --> 00:33:33.619 which required him to blend like physical comedy, 00:33:33.740 --> 00:33:36.700 narration, and somehow engage with high art ballet 00:33:36.700 --> 00:33:39.000 choreography all at once. Okay, that intersection 00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:42.960 right there, Oscar nominee, sitcom star, Shakespearean 00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:45.059 leave, political satirist, children's author, 00:33:45.279 --> 00:33:49.039 and ballet elephant. That might just be the perfect 00:33:49.039 --> 00:33:51.589 summation of John Lithgow's versatility. It's 00:33:51.589 --> 00:33:54.609 pretty close. And just briefly, on the personal 00:33:54.609 --> 00:33:56.849 and professional recognition side beyond the 00:33:56.849 --> 00:33:59.170 performance awards, he has a star on the Hollywood 00:33:59.170 --> 00:34:01.529 Walk of Fame. He's in the American Theater Hall 00:34:01.529 --> 00:34:03.650 of Fame. And reflecting that intellectual side 00:34:03.650 --> 00:34:06.109 again, he was elected to the American Philosophical 00:34:06.109 --> 00:34:09.730 Society in 2019. Right. Very prestigious. Shows 00:34:09.730 --> 00:34:12.530 his deep engagement with ideas beyond his performance. 00:34:12.590 --> 00:34:15.530 And personally, he's been married to Mary Yeager, 00:34:15.630 --> 00:34:18.989 a UCLA history professor, since 1981. Long marriage. 00:34:19.210 --> 00:34:22.409 Yeah. He has three children, one from his first 00:34:22.409 --> 00:34:24.590 marriage to Jean Tainton, which ended back in 00:34:24.590 --> 00:34:28.670 1980. Okay, so we have cataloged this career 00:34:28.670 --> 00:34:33.690 of just staggering, almost dizzying diversity. 00:34:34.150 --> 00:34:37.449 Stage triumphs, Oscar drama, blockbuster action, 00:34:37.989 --> 00:34:40.909 triple Emmy comedy, high prestige history, political 00:34:40.909 --> 00:34:43.989 satire, children's books, music, ballet. Where 00:34:43.989 --> 00:34:46.170 do you even begin to summarize it? I think John 00:34:46.170 --> 00:34:47.929 Lithgow's career is basically the definition 00:34:47.929 --> 00:34:51.010 of a masterclass in adaptation. His success isn't 00:34:51.010 --> 00:34:53.550 defined by just one thing, one medium, one genre. 00:34:53.710 --> 00:34:56.309 It's defined by his unique ability to reach the 00:34:56.309 --> 00:34:59.309 absolute highest levels in wildly different arenas, 00:34:59.389 --> 00:35:02.070 conquering the stage, whether it's classic Shakespeare 00:35:02.070 --> 00:35:04.710 like Lear or winning an Olivier for playing Roald 00:35:04.710 --> 00:35:06.769 Dahl. While simultaneously dominating television 00:35:06.769 --> 00:35:08.769 in roles that could not be more different from 00:35:08.769 --> 00:35:10.829 each other. He just refuses to be put in a box, 00:35:10.969 --> 00:35:14.079 refuses to be contained by any single... And 00:35:14.079 --> 00:35:16.960 that profound chameleonic nature. Maybe he's 00:35:16.960 --> 00:35:19.480 best understood, as we touched on, by just revisiting 00:35:19.480 --> 00:35:21.619 the sheer emotional distance between those three 00:35:21.619 --> 00:35:24.699 key Emmy -winning TV roles. It's the perfect 00:35:24.699 --> 00:35:27.000 illustration. You've got Dick Solomon, hyper 00:35:27.000 --> 00:35:29.360 -physical, manic, but incredibly disciplined 00:35:29.360 --> 00:35:32.739 comedic timing. An alien leader. Then you've 00:35:32.739 --> 00:35:37.380 got Arthur Mitchell, the Trinity Killer. Terrifyingly 00:35:37.380 --> 00:35:40.840 controlled, psychologically complex, pure contained 00:35:40.840 --> 00:35:44.199 menace. A serial killer. And then Winston Churchill. 00:35:44.460 --> 00:35:48.000 Nuanced, complex, revered, burdened. A historical 00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:51.630 icon. He achieved top tier award winning success, 00:35:51.829 --> 00:35:54.269 embodying three completely different modes of 00:35:54.269 --> 00:35:57.530 human or, well, alien experience. It really does 00:35:57.530 --> 00:35:59.670 raise a fundamental question, doesn't it? A provocative 00:35:59.670 --> 00:36:02.190 one, maybe for all of us. We live in a world, 00:36:02.230 --> 00:36:04.570 especially now, that seems to reward narrow focus, 00:36:04.829 --> 00:36:07.230 specialization, building a personal brand around 00:36:07.230 --> 00:36:09.489 one thing. Right. Find your niche and stick to 00:36:09.489 --> 00:36:11.730 it. But Lithgow achieved success at the highest 00:36:11.730 --> 00:36:14.329 levels in the most demanding roles across comedy, 00:36:14.489 --> 00:36:17.679 drama, film, stage, literature. Precisely because 00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:20.280 he refused to limit himself. He constantly sought 00:36:20.280 --> 00:36:23.340 reinvention. So what does his career, this massive 00:36:23.340 --> 00:36:26.260 spectrum of accomplishment, suggest about the 00:36:26.260 --> 00:36:28.860 actual value of refusing to specialize? About 00:36:28.860 --> 00:36:30.920 the power of remaining adaptable and curious 00:36:30.920 --> 00:36:33.559 across disciplines? Maybe it suggests that true 00:36:33.559 --> 00:36:36.820 mastery can come from breadth as well as depth. 00:36:37.079 --> 00:36:39.579 Something to think about. A profound thought 00:36:39.579 --> 00:36:43.119 indeed. Something for you, our listeners, to 00:36:43.119 --> 00:36:45.300 carry forward long after this deep dive ends. 00:36:45.789 --> 00:36:47.989 Thank you for joining us. Thanks, everyone. We'll 00:36:47.989 --> 00:36:49.449 see you next time on the Deep Dive.