WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.399 We all kind of know him, right? Michael Kelso 00:00:02.399 --> 00:00:04.839 from that 70s show. Yeah. You know, the high 00:00:04.839 --> 00:00:08.080 energy, lovable goofball yelling, burn! Yeah, 00:00:08.179 --> 00:00:11.320 that's the image, definitely. The sitcom heartthrob. 00:00:11.539 --> 00:00:14.300 But if that's where your mental picture of Christopher 00:00:14.300 --> 00:00:17.620 Ashton Kutcher, well, it stops. Yeah. You're 00:00:17.620 --> 00:00:19.719 really missing the most, I think, fascinating 00:00:19.719 --> 00:00:23.960 part of his whole story. Absolutely. When we 00:00:23.960 --> 00:00:26.940 dive into the sources for this deep dive, and 00:00:26.940 --> 00:00:29.679 they cover his whole life, really, from Iowa 00:00:29.679 --> 00:00:32.979 to Silicon Valley, we're not just reading like 00:00:32.979 --> 00:00:35.079 a standard celebrity bio. We're actually tracking 00:00:35.079 --> 00:00:38.299 this really meticulous, high -stakes journey, 00:00:38.439 --> 00:00:41.359 how someone goes from modeling to TV icon to 00:00:41.359 --> 00:00:45.000 producer, and this is the kicker, a really serious 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:47.159 player in venture capital. And doing activism 00:00:47.159 --> 00:00:49.600 on the side. Well, not just on the side, major 00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:51.820 activists. Right. Running a global anti -trafficking 00:00:51.820 --> 00:00:53.780 organization. It's a lot. It's a staggering path. 00:00:53.979 --> 00:00:56.159 So our mission today is to really map that out, 00:00:56.240 --> 00:00:57.960 especially trying to figure out how a kid from 00:00:57.960 --> 00:01:00.939 the Midwest with a frankly pretty dark and troubled 00:01:00.939 --> 00:01:04.340 past, how does he manage to build and then leverage 00:01:04.340 --> 00:01:06.459 the kind of wealth you need to become this like 00:01:06.459 --> 00:01:09.859 financial multi -hyphenate? And here's something 00:01:09.859 --> 00:01:12.620 we found, kind of the initial aha moment for 00:01:12.620 --> 00:01:15.560 you listening. That drive, that initial like 00:01:15.560 --> 00:01:17.859 rocket fuel for all this ambition, it wasn't 00:01:17.859 --> 00:01:20.239 really about chasing fame at all. No, it was 00:01:20.239 --> 00:01:23.280 rooted deep down in, well, desperation. Yeah. 00:01:23.359 --> 00:01:26.700 And this desire to solve a really personal, really 00:01:26.700 --> 00:01:29.180 intense medical crisis in his family. And that's 00:01:29.180 --> 00:01:31.239 what makes his story, I think, so compelling. 00:01:31.400 --> 00:01:33.579 It's not just the usual tabloid stuff. Exactly. 00:01:33.579 --> 00:01:36.879 It shows this. Fundamental resilience, this ambition 00:01:36.879 --> 00:01:39.299 that's totally separate from the typical Hollywood 00:01:39.299 --> 00:01:41.659 making it narrative. Right. You see this origin 00:01:41.659 --> 00:01:44.540 story driven not by like I need to land the next 00:01:44.540 --> 00:01:48.719 big role, but by a very pragmatic, almost scientific 00:01:48.719 --> 00:01:52.060 goal of saving his brother. Wow. And that core 00:01:52.060 --> 00:01:54.819 motivation, you can argue, really informs a lot 00:01:54.819 --> 00:01:57.219 of his later moves, especially into technology 00:01:57.219 --> 00:01:59.299 and investment. OK, so let's unpack that starting 00:01:59.299 --> 00:02:01.260 point then. We've got to go back to Cedar Rapids, 00:02:01.260 --> 00:02:03.620 Iowa. Christopher Ashton Kutcher, born February 00:02:03.620 --> 00:02:06.859 7, 1978. Yeah, classic Midwestern background 00:02:06.859 --> 00:02:09.639 in many ways. Raised in what the sources describe 00:02:09.639 --> 00:02:12.620 as a relatively conservative Catholic family. 00:02:12.780 --> 00:02:15.939 OK. You know, Czech, German, Irish roots, working 00:02:15.939 --> 00:02:19.800 class parents. His mom, Diane, worked at Procter 00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:23.080 & Gamble P &G, huge company. And his dad, Larry 00:02:23.080 --> 00:02:27.099 M., was a factory worker. Solid blue collar America. 00:02:27.319 --> 00:02:29.979 Pretty much. But the thing that really defined 00:02:29.979 --> 00:02:32.199 his early life, the thing that overshadowed everything, 00:02:32.479 --> 00:02:35.599 wasn't the town or the job descriptions. It was 00:02:35.599 --> 00:02:37.919 his family's health crisis. Right. He has a twin 00:02:37.919 --> 00:02:40.860 brother, Michael, fraternal twin. Exactly. And 00:02:40.860 --> 00:02:44.740 Michael was born with cerebral palsy. And even 00:02:44.740 --> 00:02:47.120 more critically, he developed cardiomyopathy. 00:02:47.370 --> 00:02:49.689 a heart muscle disease, needed a heart transplant 00:02:49.689 --> 00:02:51.569 when they were kids. God, the stress of that 00:02:51.569 --> 00:02:53.189 must have been immense. Unbelievable. And the 00:02:53.189 --> 00:02:55.270 sources really capture the psychological weight 00:02:55.270 --> 00:02:57.289 that's put on young Ashton. You see the lasting 00:02:57.289 --> 00:02:59.469 impact. He's talked about it publicly, hasn't 00:02:59.469 --> 00:03:02.090 he? Some of the quotes are intense. They really 00:03:02.090 --> 00:03:04.990 are. He described this constant fear, saying 00:03:04.990 --> 00:03:07.110 something like he didn't want to come home and 00:03:07.110 --> 00:03:09.810 find more bad news about Michael. And his way 00:03:09.810 --> 00:03:11.669 of coping wasn't, you know, shutting down. It 00:03:11.669 --> 00:03:14.229 was the opposite. Hyperactivity. He said he... 00:03:14.400 --> 00:03:16.300 Kept myself so busy that I didn't allow myself 00:03:16.300 --> 00:03:18.819 to feel. Just constantly moving, trying to outrun 00:03:18.819 --> 00:03:20.680 the fear, I guess. Trying to control something 00:03:20.680 --> 00:03:22.599 when everything felt out of control. Exactly. 00:03:22.659 --> 00:03:25.060 And this stress, this feeling of helplessness. 00:03:25.159 --> 00:03:27.819 Yeah. It led to a really, really dark moment. 00:03:27.939 --> 00:03:30.139 Just shows the depth of his turmoil back then. 00:03:30.439 --> 00:03:33.650 At 13 years old. He actually considered suicide. 00:03:34.009 --> 00:03:35.969 Thirteen. That's hard to even imagine knowing 00:03:35.969 --> 00:03:39.430 the Kelso persona. It is. He admitted telling 00:03:39.430 --> 00:03:41.610 his dad he was thinking about jumping off a hospital 00:03:41.610 --> 00:03:45.110 balcony in Cedar Rapids. Oh, my God. And the 00:03:45.110 --> 00:03:48.849 motivation, this is heartbreaking, was this desperate, 00:03:48.949 --> 00:03:52.050 completely unscientific idea that maybe his heart 00:03:52.050 --> 00:03:53.830 could save his brother. Just desperate love, 00:03:53.969 --> 00:03:56.590 really. Totally. His dad found him, stalked him. 00:03:56.949 --> 00:04:00.819 And then shortly after, the news came. A donor 00:04:00.819 --> 00:04:03.020 heart was available. Someone else's tragedy became 00:04:03.020 --> 00:04:06.479 their miracle. But that moment, that intense 00:04:06.479 --> 00:04:09.000 trauma, it clearly shaped his early ambition, 00:04:09.199 --> 00:04:11.900 pointed him towards science as like a way to 00:04:11.900 --> 00:04:14.560 find answers, a way to take control. OK, so that 00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:18.279 sets up the drive for science. But before he 00:04:18.279 --> 00:04:20.879 even got to college, there was this other big 00:04:20.879 --> 00:04:23.839 detour, right? A major screw up. Yeah, the pivot 00:04:23.839 --> 00:04:25.860 point. He was at Clear Creek Amana High School, 00:04:25.959 --> 00:04:29.870 senior year. He gets arrested. Arrested? For 00:04:29.870 --> 00:04:31.629 what? Breaking and entering, basically. Third 00:04:31.629 --> 00:04:34.110 degree burglary. He and a cousin broke into the 00:04:34.110 --> 00:04:36.149 high school at night trying to steal money. Wow. 00:04:37.050 --> 00:04:39.410 Teenagers do dumb things, but that's significant. 00:04:39.769 --> 00:04:41.889 Big consequences. Got convicted. Three years 00:04:41.889 --> 00:04:45.170 probation. 180 hours of community service. But 00:04:45.170 --> 00:04:47.420 maybe worse, personally. He lost his girlfriend, 00:04:47.680 --> 00:04:49.279 lost the college scholarships he was counting 00:04:49.279 --> 00:04:51.980 on. He said he basically became an outcast in 00:04:51.980 --> 00:04:54.379 his community. The sources do say he felt it 00:04:54.379 --> 00:04:56.279 straightened him out. But yeah, suddenly he's 00:04:56.279 --> 00:04:58.459 off the expected path. And this is where that 00:04:58.459 --> 00:05:00.879 earlier trauma, that drive kind of comes back. 00:05:01.199 --> 00:05:04.060 Absolutely. That need for a solution, a scientific 00:05:04.060 --> 00:05:06.319 fix for Michael's condition, it comes roaring 00:05:06.319 --> 00:05:08.899 back. He enrolls at the University of Iowa in 00:05:08.899 --> 00:05:11.819 August 96. And what does he major in? Let me 00:05:11.819 --> 00:05:15.600 guess. Biochemical engineering. Bingo. Not drama, 00:05:15.740 --> 00:05:18.560 not communications. Biochemical engineering. 00:05:19.100 --> 00:05:22.060 His stated goal, according to the sources, was 00:05:22.060 --> 00:05:25.019 literally to find a cure for his brother's heart 00:05:25.019 --> 00:05:27.139 problem. So it wasn't just, I want to be an engineer. 00:05:27.339 --> 00:05:29.839 It was, I need to solve this problem. Precisely. 00:05:29.839 --> 00:05:33.100 That specific driving motivation. But, you know, 00:05:33.120 --> 00:05:35.579 college life wasn't all serious study. He apparently 00:05:35.579 --> 00:05:37.959 had a pretty wild side, too. Oh, yeah. He later 00:05:37.959 --> 00:05:40.720 admitted he was wild and noisy. Played way too 00:05:40.720 --> 00:05:42.910 hard. Got kicked out of his apartment. OK, so 00:05:42.910 --> 00:05:45.730 a typical college kid in some ways, despite the 00:05:45.730 --> 00:05:47.850 serious goal. But he had to pay for it, right? 00:05:48.129 --> 00:05:51.189 Lost those scholarships. He did. And this is 00:05:51.189 --> 00:05:53.790 where you see that work ethic, that hustle. How 00:05:53.790 --> 00:05:56.069 did he earn tuition? This is the amazing detail. 00:05:56.370 --> 00:05:59.089 Working at a cereal plant. Yeah, summer job at 00:05:59.089 --> 00:06:00.930 the General Mills plant back in Cedar Rapids. 00:06:00.990 --> 00:06:04.220 And get this. Sometimes selling his blood plasma. 00:06:04.279 --> 00:06:07.259 Selling plasma. To pay for a biochemical engineering 00:06:07.259 --> 00:06:10.779 degree? That is dedication. It really is. Turning 00:06:10.779 --> 00:06:13.160 your own body into tuition money to pursue this 00:06:13.160 --> 00:06:15.120 scientific dream. It's the complete opposite 00:06:15.120 --> 00:06:18.079 of the lazy actor stereotype, isn't it? Totally. 00:06:18.139 --> 00:06:22.519 But just as he's grinding, selling plasma, aiming 00:06:22.519 --> 00:06:26.699 for this very serious degree, pure luck intervenes. 00:06:26.759 --> 00:06:28.800 Total chance encounter. He's just hanging out, 00:06:28.819 --> 00:06:31.079 having a beer at the airliner bar in Iowa City. 00:06:31.279 --> 00:06:33.600 Yeah. A model scout spots him. Just like that. 00:06:33.819 --> 00:06:36.560 Just like that. Leads to him entering this Fresh 00:06:36.560 --> 00:06:39.660 Faces of Iowa competition. He wins the prize. 00:06:40.160 --> 00:06:42.980 A trip to the IMTA convention in New York. The 00:06:42.980 --> 00:06:44.899 International Modeling and Talent Association. 00:06:45.300 --> 00:06:47.139 Right. And boom. Next thing you know, he's got 00:06:47.139 --> 00:06:48.819 a modeling contract. He's heading to L .A. to 00:06:48.819 --> 00:06:51.139 try acting. The whole biochemical engineering 00:06:51.139 --> 00:06:54.680 plan sidetracked by a beer and a lucky break. 00:06:54.879 --> 00:06:56.680 It's one of those classic Hollywood discovery 00:06:56.680 --> 00:06:59.319 stories, but rooted in something so much grittier. 00:06:59.709 --> 00:07:01.970 Selling plasma one minute, modeling the next. 00:07:02.110 --> 00:07:04.290 An absolutely wild turn of events. And once he 00:07:04.290 --> 00:07:06.730 made that pivot to entertainment, things moved 00:07:06.730 --> 00:07:10.230 incredibly fast. So 1998, after that IMTA thing, 00:07:10.370 --> 00:07:13.089 he signs with Next Modeling Agency. Yeah, a top 00:07:13.089 --> 00:07:15.230 agency. Suddenly he's doing campaigns in Paris, 00:07:15.470 --> 00:07:17.750 Milan, Calvin Klein commercials. I mean, that's 00:07:17.750 --> 00:07:19.949 hitting the ground running. And then, almost 00:07:19.949 --> 00:07:22.649 instantly, the TV role that just defined him 00:07:22.649 --> 00:07:25.730 for years. Michael Kelso, that 70s show starting 00:07:25.730 --> 00:07:28.550 in 98. Right. He was on that show solid until 00:07:28.550 --> 00:07:31.569 2006. Although, you know, the sources say he 00:07:31.569 --> 00:07:33.649 started pulling back a bit in that last season, 00:07:33.689 --> 00:07:35.670 season eight. Because other things were already 00:07:35.670 --> 00:07:38.269 starting to happen. Film, producing. Exactly. 00:07:38.430 --> 00:07:41.269 His film career took off pretty quickly alongside 00:07:41.269 --> 00:07:44.350 the show. He really nailed that early 2000s comedy 00:07:44.350 --> 00:07:48.329 vibe. Dude, where's my car in 2000? Classic in 00:07:48.329 --> 00:07:50.509 its own way. Box office hit. Definitely. And 00:07:50.509 --> 00:07:53.709 just married in 2003. Guess who in 2005? Lots 00:07:53.709 --> 00:07:56.050 of successful comedies. But even then you saw. 00:07:56.139 --> 00:07:57.860 I'm trying to stretch a bit. Yeah, he didn't 00:07:57.860 --> 00:07:59.660 just stick to the goofy stuff. There was that 00:07:59.660 --> 00:08:02.339 2004 sci -fi movie, The Butterfly Effect. Right. 00:08:02.459 --> 00:08:04.220 That was a significant movie. It wasn't a comedy 00:08:04.220 --> 00:08:07.439 at all. Dark, kind of a thriller about time travel 00:08:07.439 --> 00:08:09.360 messing things up. Credits weren't universally 00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:12.220 kind, I remember. No, reviews were mixed. But 00:08:12.220 --> 00:08:14.040 here's the thing. It was a box office success. 00:08:14.480 --> 00:08:17.740 Made over 96 million bucks worldwide on a pretty 00:08:17.740 --> 00:08:19.860 small budget. Okay, so financially it worked. 00:08:20.079 --> 00:08:24.129 It worked. And it sent a signal, right, to Hollywood, 00:08:24.269 --> 00:08:26.930 maybe to future investors, too, that he wasn't 00:08:26.930 --> 00:08:30.430 just Kelso. He was willing to take risks, leverage 00:08:30.430 --> 00:08:32.850 his fame for different kinds of projects. And 00:08:32.850 --> 00:08:35.269 that sort of strategic thinking, that hedging, 00:08:35.330 --> 00:08:38.149 it leads right into his next big move, doesn't 00:08:38.149 --> 00:08:41.049 it? Becoming a producer. While that 70s show 00:08:41.049 --> 00:08:45.889 was still huge. Yes. 2003, he creates and hosts 00:08:45.889 --> 00:08:50.330 Punk'd for MTV. Massive hit. Hidden camera. Pranking 00:08:50.330 --> 00:08:52.450 celebrities. Everyone watched Punk'd. Everyone. 00:08:52.549 --> 00:08:54.350 And this wasn't just him starring in something. 00:08:54.429 --> 00:08:56.750 This was his creation. It was the launch pad 00:08:56.750 --> 00:08:59.509 for his production company, Catalyst Films. He 00:08:59.509 --> 00:09:01.309 ran that with his partner, Jason Goldberg. And 00:09:01.309 --> 00:09:03.149 the motivation behind that, was it just creative 00:09:03.149 --> 00:09:05.309 energy or something else? Well, the sources point 00:09:05.309 --> 00:09:07.450 to something more calculated. He apparently realized, 00:09:07.629 --> 00:09:09.730 look, a sitcom schedule, even a hit one, isn't 00:09:09.730 --> 00:09:12.129 full -time work. Maybe 30 hours a week on set. 00:09:12.269 --> 00:09:14.500 Leaves a lot of downtime. And cash, presumably. 00:09:14.799 --> 00:09:16.919 Exactly. Lots of free time, lots of disposable 00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:19.340 income from the show. So was it purely passion? 00:09:19.919 --> 00:09:22.860 Maybe partly. But he also described himself as 00:09:22.860 --> 00:09:26.000 a trier, someone who always needed backup contingency 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:29.039 plans. Ah, okay. Like, the acting thing is great, 00:09:29.139 --> 00:09:31.720 but what if it dries up? Precisely. Very pragmatic. 00:09:32.019 --> 00:09:34.960 Ties back to that Iowa sensibility, maybe. Don't 00:09:34.960 --> 00:09:37.460 put all your eggs in one basket. If acting goes 00:09:37.460 --> 00:09:40.340 away, he wanted an infrastructure, a business, 00:09:40.419 --> 00:09:43.590 already humming along. Catalyst was that business. 00:09:43.909 --> 00:09:46.029 And it wasn't just Punk'd, right? Catalyst did 00:09:46.029 --> 00:09:48.610 other stuff, too. Oh, yeah. He really stacked 00:09:48.610 --> 00:09:50.629 up the executive producer credits through Catalyst. 00:09:51.129 --> 00:09:53.570 Mostly reality and unscripted shows. Beauty and 00:09:53.570 --> 00:09:55.389 the Geek. Right, I remember that one. Adventures 00:09:55.389 --> 00:09:58.149 in Hollywood. The Real Wedding Crashers. Even 00:09:58.149 --> 00:10:01.210 a game show called Opportunity Knocks. He wasn't 00:10:01.210 --> 00:10:03.350 just waiting by the phone for acting jobs. He 00:10:03.350 --> 00:10:06.009 was creating the content, controlling the IP, 00:10:06.269 --> 00:10:09.049 building a real production business. Smart move. 00:10:09.149 --> 00:10:11.289 That infrastructure, that business sense, it 00:10:11.289 --> 00:10:13.610 must have set him up perfectly for the next massive 00:10:13.610 --> 00:10:16.070 step. Replacing Charlie Sheen on Two and a Half 00:10:16.070 --> 00:10:20.610 Men, that was huge news. Huge. May 2011. One 00:10:20.610 --> 00:10:23.429 of the biggest TV casting shakeups ever. Critcher 00:10:23.429 --> 00:10:27.049 comes in as Walden Schmidt. And the money. Wow. 00:10:27.230 --> 00:10:28.830 Yeah. Talk about the contract. What were the 00:10:28.830 --> 00:10:30.809 numbers floating around? Widely reported figures 00:10:30.809 --> 00:10:33.590 were close to $20 million just for the first 00:10:33.590 --> 00:10:39.210 year. $20 million in one year. That's serious 00:10:39.210 --> 00:10:41.789 capital generation right there. Absolutely game 00:10:41.789 --> 00:10:43.830 -changing money. And it wasn't a flash in the 00:10:43.830 --> 00:10:46.169 pan. The audience showed up. His first episode, 00:10:46.250 --> 00:10:49.889 Nice to Meet You, Walden Schmidt, 28 .7 million 00:10:49.889 --> 00:10:52.690 viewers. Get out! More than Sheen ever got. Yeah. 00:10:52.730 --> 00:10:55.129 It set a record for the show's highest viewership 00:10:55.129 --> 00:10:58.259 ever at that point. So the network's gamble paid 00:10:58.259 --> 00:11:01.600 off immediately, and he kept earning bank. Reports 00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:05.899 say he was making $750 ,000 per episode. $750 00:11:05.899 --> 00:11:08.879 ,000 an episode? For his whole run, basically, 00:11:08.940 --> 00:11:12.490 from 2011 to 2015. That kind of money? sustained 00:11:12.490 --> 00:11:15.110 over years. That's the financial foundation for 00:11:15.110 --> 00:11:16.870 everything that comes next in the venture capital 00:11:16.870 --> 00:11:19.049 world. Makes sense. You need capital to invest 00:11:19.049 --> 00:11:21.090 capital. After Two and a Half Men, he didn't 00:11:21.090 --> 00:11:23.289 just disappear, though. Kept acting. Right. He 00:11:23.289 --> 00:11:25.870 took on the role of Steve Jobs in the 2013 movie 00:11:25.870 --> 00:11:27.809 Jobs. Mixed reviews for that one, too, I think. 00:11:27.950 --> 00:11:30.110 Yeah, the film itself got mixed reactions, but 00:11:30.110 --> 00:11:32.389 it was another high -profile, serious role. Showed 00:11:32.389 --> 00:11:34.490 ambition. Then he did the Netflix sitcom The 00:11:34.490 --> 00:11:38.070 Ranch for four years, 2016 to 2020. With Danny 00:11:38.070 --> 00:11:41.389 Masterson, his old co -star, which we'll get 00:11:41.389 --> 00:11:43.330 to later, unfortunately. Yes, that connection 00:11:43.330 --> 00:11:46.330 becomes significant later. And, you know, bringing 00:11:46.330 --> 00:11:48.649 it full circle, he even popped up as Kelso again 00:11:48.649 --> 00:11:52.570 briefly in the sequel show, that 90s show in 00:11:52.570 --> 00:11:55.370 2023. Kind of acknowledging his roots while still 00:11:55.370 --> 00:11:57.629 moving forward. Exactly. Maintaining visibility 00:11:57.629 --> 00:12:02.129 across broadcast, film, streaming, keeping the 00:12:02.129 --> 00:12:04.450 brand alive. Okay, so this brings us to the real 00:12:04.450 --> 00:12:07.070 core of this deep dive, I think. The pivot that 00:12:07.070 --> 00:12:09.289 really sets Kutcher apart from almost any other 00:12:09.289 --> 00:12:11.289 actor out there, the move into venture capital. 00:12:11.470 --> 00:12:13.590 Yeah, this is where the story gets truly unique. 00:12:13.809 --> 00:12:16.490 He wasn't just, you know, endorsing a tech product 00:12:16.490 --> 00:12:19.009 here and there. He actively used his fame, his 00:12:19.009 --> 00:12:21.330 network, and that Two and a Half Men money as 00:12:21.330 --> 00:12:24.269 leverage to get into serious investing. It started 00:12:24.269 --> 00:12:26.389 with A -grade investments, right? Around 2010. 00:12:26.730 --> 00:12:28.649 That's right. He co -founded it. And not with 00:12:28.649 --> 00:12:31.350 other actors, notably. With Guy Ossuri, Madonna's 00:12:31.350 --> 00:12:33.889 manager, major music exec, and Ron Burkle, the 00:12:33.889 --> 00:12:35.730 billionaire investor. Heavy hitters. Definitely. 00:12:35.970 --> 00:12:38.029 They brought in Chris Hollett as a fund manager, 00:12:38.149 --> 00:12:41.049 too. And they started relatively small, at least 00:12:41.049 --> 00:12:43.649 by VC standards. Put in about $30 million of 00:12:43.649 --> 00:12:45.720 their own money initially. $30 million is still 00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:47.879 a lot of money for most people. But yeah, in 00:12:47.879 --> 00:12:50.919 VC terms, maybe more like angel investing stage, 00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:53.620 using their own cash and connections. That's 00:12:53.620 --> 00:12:55.720 a good way to put it. A -grade's early value 00:12:55.720 --> 00:12:58.899 proposition was absolutely about access. Kutcher's 00:12:58.899 --> 00:13:00.519 celebrity could get them meetings that other 00:13:00.519 --> 00:13:03.379 small funds couldn't. Startups wanted that connection, 00:13:03.519 --> 00:13:05.440 that potential platform. And did it work? Did 00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:07.620 they pick winners? Oh, did they ever. A -grade 00:13:07.620 --> 00:13:10.480 got at some legendary deals early on. Think Uber, 00:13:10.740 --> 00:13:14.559 Airbnb, Spotify. Wow. OK, so not just small bets. 00:13:14.720 --> 00:13:17.460 Those are huge. Huge. And the growth was phenomenal. 00:13:17.779 --> 00:13:21.019 By 2016, Forbes estimated A -grade's portfolio 00:13:21.019 --> 00:13:24.899 value was around $236 million. From $30 million 00:13:24.899 --> 00:13:27.919 to $236 million in about six years. That's incredible 00:13:27.919 --> 00:13:30.860 performance. It really is. Now, you have to ask, 00:13:30.919 --> 00:13:33.139 like you said, how much is real cash versus paper 00:13:33.139 --> 00:13:35.419 value tied up in shares? Right. Tech valuations 00:13:35.419 --> 00:13:38.379 can be volatile. True. The sources don't break 00:13:38.379 --> 00:13:40.879 down that liquid paper ratio for A -grade specifically, 00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:43.720 but what they emphasize is that the success of 00:13:43.720 --> 00:13:46.080 those picks spotting Uber and Airbnb so early 00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:49.220 proved Kutcher and his partners had real skill 00:13:49.220 --> 00:13:51.980 and due diligence in spotting trends. It wasn't 00:13:51.980 --> 00:13:54.139 just luck or fame. It proved he could manage 00:13:54.139 --> 00:13:56.899 capital effectively, not just be the famous face 00:13:56.899 --> 00:13:59.299 on the letterhead. Exactly. And that proven track 00:13:59.299 --> 00:14:01.840 record is what allowed the next absolutely critical 00:14:01.840 --> 00:14:05.379 step in 2015, launching Sound Ventures. Okay, 00:14:05.419 --> 00:14:07.279 what was different about Sound Ventures? Why 00:14:07.279 --> 00:14:09.179 was that such a leap? This is the key distinction. 00:14:09.500 --> 00:14:13.120 A -grade use their own money. Mostly. Sound Ventures, 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:16.279 announced at South by Southwest in 2015, was 00:14:16.279 --> 00:14:18.519 set up to manage a fund backed by institutional 00:14:18.519 --> 00:14:21.220 funding. Institutional funding. So for listeners, 00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:22.740 what does that mean? We're talking big money, 00:14:22.799 --> 00:14:24.759 right? Like pensions, endowments. Precisely. 00:14:24.820 --> 00:14:28.519 University endowments, big pension funds, corporate 00:14:28.519 --> 00:14:31.240 venture arms. These are sophisticated investors 00:14:31.240 --> 00:14:34.000 with incredibly strict rules. They do massive 00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:35.899 due diligence. They don't just hand over money 00:14:35.899 --> 00:14:38.559 because someone was on TV. They need to see. 00:14:39.049 --> 00:14:42.009 proven returns, risk management, fiduciary responsibility, 00:14:42.610 --> 00:14:45.769 all that serious financial stuff. All of it. 00:14:46.039 --> 00:14:48.259 getting institutional backing for Sound Ventures. 00:14:48.279 --> 00:14:50.340 That was Kutcher graduating. That was the moment 00:14:50.340 --> 00:14:52.940 he transitioned from being a celebrity angel 00:14:52.940 --> 00:14:55.580 investor to being recognized as a legitimate, 00:14:55.700 --> 00:14:57.860 serious fund manager in the financial world. 00:14:57.980 --> 00:15:00.179 And Sound Ventures continued the trend of picking 00:15:00.179 --> 00:15:02.440 diverse and successful companies. Absolutely. 00:15:02.559 --> 00:15:05.200 The portfolio is broad. The sources mention investments 00:15:05.200 --> 00:15:08.600 by 2017 in companies like Neighborly, Zenreach, 00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:11.860 ResearchGate. Duolingo, the language app. Yep, 00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:14.779 Duolingo. Kopari Beauty, the insurance tech company 00:15:14.779 --> 00:15:17.460 Lemonade. Yeah. It shows a really wide ranging 00:15:17.460 --> 00:15:20.539 investment strategy, tech, education, consumer 00:15:20.539 --> 00:15:23.279 goods, fintech. It's impressive. And thinking 00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:26.299 back to his original motivation, that biochemical 00:15:26.299 --> 00:15:29.019 engineering dream, did that science interest 00:15:29.019 --> 00:15:31.120 ever pop up again in his investments? It totally 00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:33.580 did. This is the amazing full circle moment. 00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:36.419 In 2021, Sound Ventures invested in a company 00:15:36.419 --> 00:15:38.500 called Meat Tech. Meat Tech. What do they do? 00:15:38.700 --> 00:15:40.899 They're an Israeli startup developing cultivated 00:15:40.899 --> 00:15:43.909 meat. Using 3D printing technology. Lab -grown 00:15:43.909 --> 00:15:46.610 meat, basically. Yeah, highly complex bioengineering 00:15:46.610 --> 00:15:49.289 stuff. Investing in that. It feels like a direct 00:15:49.289 --> 00:15:52.730 echo of that kid in Iowa wanting to use science 00:15:52.730 --> 00:15:55.169 to solve big problems. He's still betting on 00:15:55.169 --> 00:15:57.450 fundamental scientific breakthroughs, just in 00:15:57.450 --> 00:15:59.779 a completely different field now. That's fascinating. 00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:02.399 Now, besides the big VC firms, he also dabbled 00:16:02.399 --> 00:16:04.639 in other kinds of business, right? Corporate 00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:07.759 roles, restaurants. How did those go? Mixed results, 00:16:07.960 --> 00:16:10.399 really. On the corporate side, Lenovo hired him 00:16:10.399 --> 00:16:13.620 in 2013 as a product engineer. Product engineer? 00:16:13.759 --> 00:16:16.019 Seriously? Or was that more of a marketing title? 00:16:16.279 --> 00:16:18.559 He was presented as a genuine role, combining 00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:21.240 his tech interest and celebrity profile for product 00:16:21.240 --> 00:16:25.039 input. How deep it went is maybe debatable. Before 00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:27.379 that, back in 2007, he was creative director 00:16:27.379 --> 00:16:30.309 for UMA. Uma, that was voiceover IP, right? Like 00:16:30.309 --> 00:16:32.970 early internet phone calls. Exactly. VoIP, he 00:16:32.970 --> 00:16:35.289 made some viral videos for them, used his brand. 00:16:35.570 --> 00:16:38.809 But Uma changed their marketing strategy in 2008, 00:16:38.990 --> 00:16:42.169 brought in a new CMO, and he was out. So maybe 00:16:42.169 --> 00:16:43.990 the creative director thing didn't quite stick 00:16:43.990 --> 00:16:46.669 long term. Any other ventures? He tried an interactive 00:16:46.669 --> 00:16:49.789 media arm of Catalyst with Jason Goldberg called 00:16:49.789 --> 00:16:52.309 Catalyst Media. They launched an animated thing 00:16:52.309 --> 00:16:55.379 called Blog Girls. Didn't really take off. And 00:16:55.379 --> 00:16:57.860 restaurants. That's always tough business. Very 00:16:57.860 --> 00:17:00.539 tough. He co -owned an Italian place, Dolce, 00:17:00.679 --> 00:17:03.399 with Danny Masterson and Wilmer Valderrama from 00:17:03.399 --> 00:17:05.700 that 70s show. Okay. Keeping it in the family, 00:17:05.799 --> 00:17:08.819 sort of. And he backed a Japanese place, Geisha 00:17:08.819 --> 00:17:12.380 House. That one went under in 2013. Restaurants 00:17:12.380 --> 00:17:14.660 are notoriously high risk, high overhead. True. 00:17:14.859 --> 00:17:17.990 Did he get back into retail later? He did. But 00:17:17.990 --> 00:17:20.529 maybe learning from those experiences. In 2019, 00:17:20.750 --> 00:17:23.529 he invested alongside Mark Cuban and others in 00:17:23.529 --> 00:17:26.190 Veltskin shoes. Veltskin, those South African 00:17:26.190 --> 00:17:28.630 leather shoes? That's them. They took a 50 % 00:17:28.630 --> 00:17:30.769 stake in the U .S. business. It's a physical 00:17:30.769 --> 00:17:33.869 product, durable goods, feels maybe more aligned 00:17:33.869 --> 00:17:37.109 with consumer branding, less volatile than trendy 00:17:37.109 --> 00:17:39.509 L .A. restaurants. Interesting. OK, let's shift 00:17:39.509 --> 00:17:41.789 gears a bit. Alongside all this business activity, 00:17:42.089 --> 00:17:44.910 he's also been heavily involved in activism and 00:17:44.910 --> 00:17:46.869 nonprofit work. And that's where things get. 00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:49.240 Complicated sometimes. Thorne is the big one, 00:17:49.319 --> 00:17:51.759 right? Thorne is huge. Originally called the 00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:54.680 DNA Foundation, he co -founded it with Demi Moore, 00:17:54.799 --> 00:17:57.680 his wife at the time, back in 2009. And its mission 00:17:57.680 --> 00:18:00.339 is fighting child exploitation. Specifically, 00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:03.740 using technology to combat child sexual exploitation 00:18:03.740 --> 00:18:07.259 and the spread of child abuse material online, 00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:10.049 globally. It's a really innovative approach, 00:18:10.269 --> 00:18:12.890 applying Silicon Valley thinking data, software, 00:18:13.049 --> 00:18:16.410 algorithms to a massive humanitarian crisis. 00:18:16.650 --> 00:18:19.049 Sounds incredibly important. But even Thorne 00:18:19.049 --> 00:18:20.970 faced controversy, didn't it? Something about 00:18:20.970 --> 00:18:23.369 statistics. Yeah, there was a significant dustup. 00:18:24.089 --> 00:18:26.890 Kutcher, in promoting Thorne's work, used some 00:18:26.890 --> 00:18:29.089 very high -end estimates for the number of American 00:18:29.089 --> 00:18:31.430 children sold into sexual slavery figures like 00:18:31.430 --> 00:18:34.109 100 ,000 to 300 ,000. Okay. The Village Voice 00:18:34.109 --> 00:18:36.809 newspaper pushed back hard. Policy analysis suggesting 00:18:36.809 --> 00:18:39.589 the real number, while still horrific, was likely 00:18:39.589 --> 00:18:41.849 much lower, probably in the hundreds based on 00:18:41.849 --> 00:18:44.210 verifiable cases. So a dispute over the scale 00:18:44.210 --> 00:18:46.210 of the problem. How did Kutcher respond to that 00:18:46.210 --> 00:18:48.309 criticism? Aggressively. He went on Twitter, 00:18:48.349 --> 00:18:50.089 where he was already a massive presence member. 00:18:50.150 --> 00:18:51.970 He was the first user to hit a million followers. 00:18:52.049 --> 00:18:55.970 Right. beat CNN in that race? Exactly. He used 00:18:55.970 --> 00:18:58.289 that platform to basically call on village voice 00:18:58.289 --> 00:19:00.809 advertisers to pull their funding from the paper. 00:19:01.009 --> 00:19:03.890 Wow. Trying to defund them. Essentially, yeah. 00:19:04.130 --> 00:19:06.869 He argued the paper was hindering the fight against 00:19:06.869 --> 00:19:09.490 exploitation by questioning the high numbers 00:19:09.490 --> 00:19:12.289 he felt were needed to spur action. It showed 00:19:12.289 --> 00:19:14.390 he wasn't afraid to use his media power quite 00:19:14.390 --> 00:19:16.990 forcefully to defend his organization and silence 00:19:16.990 --> 00:19:20.339 critics. That intense media savviness also connects 00:19:20.339 --> 00:19:23.240 to his own digital platform, A +, doesn't it? 00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:25.819 It does. He first launched a Twitter client called 00:19:25.819 --> 00:19:30.480 A +, in 2011. Then, in 2014, it evolved into 00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:33.480 A +, the media company. What was the focus of 00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:36.240 A+. It was all about positive, upbeat stories. 00:19:36.619 --> 00:19:38.720 Uplifting content, basically. Socially driven. 00:19:39.079 --> 00:19:41.299 Kutcher was chairman, and he got significant 00:19:41.299 --> 00:19:44.380 traffic reports mentioned, like 27 .5 million 00:19:44.380 --> 00:19:47.200 unique visitors a month in the U .S. Another 00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:49.220 example of him translating celebrity reach into 00:19:49.220 --> 00:19:51.500 a functional media business. Okay, but that media 00:19:51.500 --> 00:19:53.700 salary didn't prevent some major public relations 00:19:53.700 --> 00:19:55.980 disasters. We have to talk about the Popchips 00:19:55.980 --> 00:19:59.920 ad scandal in 2012. Oh, yeah. That was bad. Yeah. 00:19:59.980 --> 00:20:03.259 A real train wreck. It demonstrates a pretty 00:20:03.259 --> 00:20:05.720 shocking lack of judgment, frankly, from everyone 00:20:05.720 --> 00:20:08.640 involved. Remind us what happened. Popchips ran 00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:11.960 this ad campaign where Kutcher portrayed several 00:20:11.960 --> 00:20:14.240 different characters. One of them was an Indian 00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:17.240 man named Raj who was supposedly looking for 00:20:17.240 --> 00:20:19.880 love. And the problem was? The problem was it 00:20:19.880 --> 00:20:22.460 involved Kutcher wearing brown face makeup and 00:20:22.460 --> 00:20:25.420 using this really exaggerated stereotypical Indian 00:20:25.420 --> 00:20:27.799 accent. That was cringeworthy and offensive. 00:20:28.180 --> 00:20:31.259 Yikes. How was the reaction? Immediate and brutal. 00:20:31.380 --> 00:20:33.819 Yeah. Online viewers, the Indian American community, 00:20:33.940 --> 00:20:37.299 just widespread condemnation, cultural appropriation, 00:20:37.339 --> 00:20:40.480 racist stereotyping, the whole nine yards. So 00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:42.930 we had to pull the ad. Instantly. Damage control 00:20:42.930 --> 00:20:45.269 mode is a huge unforced error and probably a 00:20:45.269 --> 00:20:46.970 big learning moment for him about the responsibilities 00:20:46.970 --> 00:20:50.170 and potential pitfalls of celebrity endorsements, 00:20:50.250 --> 00:20:52.430 especially crossing cultural lines for cheat 00:20:52.430 --> 00:20:54.349 laughs. Definitely showed the limits of that 00:20:54.349 --> 00:20:58.250 goofy Kelso humor. Now, his investments and personal 00:20:58.250 --> 00:21:00.009 beliefs have also drawn him into some pretty 00:21:00.009 --> 00:21:02.589 complex geopolitical territory, especially around 00:21:02.589 --> 00:21:04.890 Israel. That's a really consistent thread. He 00:21:04.890 --> 00:21:07.019 practices Kabbalah. which is a form of Jewish 00:21:07.019 --> 00:21:09.559 mysticism. He's visited Israel multiple times, 00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:12.160 studied Torah there. He's called Israel near 00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:14.819 and dear to my heart, even the source of creation. 00:21:15.160 --> 00:21:17.680 OK, so a strong personal connection. How did 00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:19.900 that intersect with his business? Remember, he 00:21:19.900 --> 00:21:22.700 was an early prominent investor in Airbnb. Right. 00:21:22.779 --> 00:21:24.720 That connection put him right in the spotlight 00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:28.279 of the Israeli -Palestinian conflict. In 2016, 00:21:28.500 --> 00:21:30.599 he was actually confronted by a protester on 00:21:30.599 --> 00:21:33.960 stage at an Airbnb event. Why? What was the issue? 00:21:34.140 --> 00:21:36.900 The protester was slamming Airbnb for allowing 00:21:36.900 --> 00:21:39.099 listings by Israeli settlers in the occupied 00:21:39.099 --> 00:21:41.700 West Bank, which is obviously a hugely contentious 00:21:41.700 --> 00:21:44.400 issue under international law. So Kutcher's investment 00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:46.579 choice directly linked him to that controversy. 00:21:46.839 --> 00:21:48.940 And his involvement wasn't just financial, right? 00:21:49.259 --> 00:21:52.140 He attended events supporting the Israeli military. 00:21:52.180 --> 00:21:55.619 Yes. In 2018, he attended the Friends of the 00:21:55.619 --> 00:21:58.680 Israeli Defense Forces, the FIDF Gala in Los 00:21:58.680 --> 00:22:01.400 Angeles. That event raised something like $60 00:22:01.400 --> 00:22:03.700 million for Israeli soldiers and their families. 00:22:03.920 --> 00:22:06.519 So, yeah, he's taken a very public, very supportive 00:22:06.519 --> 00:22:08.890 stance regarding Israel. Interesting. But then 00:22:08.890 --> 00:22:10.670 on the flip side, he's also used his platform 00:22:10.670 --> 00:22:12.789 for very different kinds of international aid, 00:22:12.890 --> 00:22:15.490 like the situation in Ukraine. Absolutely. And 00:22:15.490 --> 00:22:18.150 that was deeply personal, too, because his wife, 00:22:18.309 --> 00:22:20.950 Mila Kunis, was born in Ukraine. Right. So in 00:22:20.950 --> 00:22:23.829 2022, after the Russian invasion, they launched 00:22:23.829 --> 00:22:26.430 a GoFundMe campaign to help Ukrainian refugees. 00:22:27.130 --> 00:22:29.650 They pledged to match donations personally. And 00:22:29.650 --> 00:22:32.259 the response was huge, wasn't it? Phenomenal. 00:22:32.259 --> 00:22:35.619 As of March 2022, they'd raised over $34 million. 00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:38.819 The funds went to support organizations like 00:22:38.819 --> 00:22:41.420 Flexport for logistics and Airbnb for housing 00:22:41.420 --> 00:22:44.240 assistance, mainly helping refugees who'd fled 00:22:44.240 --> 00:22:47.700 to Poland and Romania. It really showed the incredible 00:22:47.700 --> 00:22:50.559 positive power their combined celebrity and wealth 00:22:50.559 --> 00:22:53.740 could mobilize for humanitarian cause. It's such 00:22:53.740 --> 00:22:56.319 a complex picture, isn't it? Activism, investment, 00:22:56.579 --> 00:22:58.980 controversy all tangled together. Let's shift 00:22:58.980 --> 00:23:01.339 to his personal life again. There's that really 00:23:01.339 --> 00:23:04.559 traumatic connection to a crime. He was a witness 00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:07.279 in a murder trial. Yeah, this is a truly harrowing 00:23:07.279 --> 00:23:09.180 piece of his life story, something most people 00:23:09.180 --> 00:23:11.960 probably don't know. Back in 2019, he testified 00:23:11.960 --> 00:23:14.099 in the trial for the murder of Ashley Ellern. 00:23:14.220 --> 00:23:16.200 Who was she? She was someone he was dating back 00:23:16.200 --> 00:23:19.680 in February 2001. She was murdered in her Hollywood 00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:23.000 home. And he found her? No, but he was supposed 00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:25.259 to pick her up for a date that night. Arrived 00:23:25.259 --> 00:23:27.519 late, knocked on her door, looked in the window, 00:23:27.720 --> 00:23:30.299 saw what he thought was red wine spilled on the 00:23:30.299 --> 00:23:33.380 carpet. She didn't answer. Oh, God. He just figured 00:23:33.380 --> 00:23:35.200 she was mad he was late and had blown him off. 00:23:35.710 --> 00:23:37.849 He left. He found out the next day she'd been 00:23:37.849 --> 00:23:40.809 killed. He was never a suspect, but his testimony 00:23:40.809 --> 00:23:42.809 was crucial at the trial of the man eventually 00:23:42.809 --> 00:23:45.910 convicted, Michael Gargiulo. The Hollywood Ripper 00:23:45.910 --> 00:23:48.250 serial killer. That's him. Kutcher's testimony 00:23:48.250 --> 00:23:50.849 helped establish the timeline, basically proving 00:23:50.849 --> 00:23:52.990 Ellern was likely already dead when he arrived. 00:23:53.549 --> 00:23:55.630 Greg, you look at the death penalty in 2021. 00:23:55.930 --> 00:23:58.509 Just an unimaginably traumatic thing to be connected 00:23:58.509 --> 00:24:01.509 to. Absolutely awful. OK, moving to less grim 00:24:01.509 --> 00:24:04.009 aspects of his personal life. Relationships have 00:24:04.009 --> 00:24:05.769 always been high profile for him. Very much so. 00:24:06.369 --> 00:24:09.069 He dated Brittany Murphy, his co -star from Just 00:24:09.069 --> 00:24:12.430 Married, back in 2002. Then the huge one, his 00:24:12.430 --> 00:24:15.490 marriage to Demi Moore in 2005. Big age gap, 00:24:15.650 --> 00:24:18.069 huge media attention. They divorced in 2013. 00:24:18.210 --> 00:24:20.450 And then he reconnected with Mila Kunis. Yeah, 00:24:20.509 --> 00:24:22.710 his old That 70s Show co -star. They started 00:24:22.710 --> 00:24:25.309 dating in 2012, got married in 2015. And they 00:24:25.309 --> 00:24:28.250 have kids now, right? Two kids. A daughter, Wyatt 00:24:28.250 --> 00:24:31.730 Isabel, born 2014, and a son, Dimitri Portwood, 00:24:31.890 --> 00:24:34.730 born 2016. And their home life seems to reflect 00:24:34.730 --> 00:24:37.049 some of his other interests. They live in this 00:24:37.049 --> 00:24:38.849 sustainable farmhouse they designed in Beverly 00:24:38.849 --> 00:24:41.970 Hills. Very eco -conscious, apparently. Interesting. 00:24:42.329 --> 00:24:46.250 What about his broader worldview? Politics? Beliefs? 00:24:46.309 --> 00:24:49.029 He described himself back in 2009 in an interesting 00:24:49.029 --> 00:24:52.089 way. A fiscal conservative, but a social liberal. 00:24:52.250 --> 00:24:54.410 You hear that sometimes from the tech world, 00:24:54.490 --> 00:24:56.630 that kind of libertarian -ish mix. Kind of fits 00:24:56.630 --> 00:24:59.109 that mold, yeah. And on specific issues, like 00:24:59.109 --> 00:25:01.549 guns, he's spoken out despite being a hunter 00:25:01.549 --> 00:25:04.589 and gun owner himself. After the Las Vegas mass 00:25:04.589 --> 00:25:07.769 shooting in 2017, he was very clear, saying things 00:25:07.769 --> 00:25:10.369 like, nobody needs assault rifles, advocating 00:25:10.369 --> 00:25:14.109 for stricter laws. And spiritually. Still follows 00:25:14.109 --> 00:25:16.740 Kabbalah. Seems so. The sources say he taught 00:25:16.740 --> 00:25:19.079 Mila Kunis about it, too, and he finds it inspiring, 00:25:19.180 --> 00:25:21.779 both spiritually and artistically. Okay. The 00:25:21.779 --> 00:25:23.519 last couple of years have brought some really 00:25:23.519 --> 00:25:25.839 major personal challenges into the public eye 00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:28.269 for him, though. First, that health scare he 00:25:28.269 --> 00:25:30.910 revealed in 2022. Yeah, that was pretty shocking. 00:25:31.269 --> 00:25:33.470 He revealed he'd been diagnosed two years earlier 00:25:33.470 --> 00:25:36.549 with a really rare, serious autoimmune disease 00:25:36.549 --> 00:25:39.670 called vasculitis. Vasculitis. That's inflammation 00:25:39.670 --> 00:25:42.049 of the blood vessels, right? It can be very dangerous. 00:25:42.390 --> 00:25:45.089 Extremely. He said it completely knocked out 00:25:45.089 --> 00:25:47.630 his vision, his hearing, and his balance, his 00:25:47.630 --> 00:25:50.420 equilibrium, for about a year. A whole year. 00:25:50.460 --> 00:25:53.079 Wow. Yeah. He talked about the terror of not 00:25:53.079 --> 00:25:54.759 knowing if you'd ever see again, hear again, 00:25:54.799 --> 00:25:57.680 walk properly again. Said he felt lucky to be 00:25:57.680 --> 00:26:00.539 alive. It really puts his more recent work and 00:26:00.539 --> 00:26:03.559 activities into perspective. knowing he was recovering 00:26:03.559 --> 00:26:06.259 from something so debilitating. Absolutely. And 00:26:06.259 --> 00:26:08.660 then, more recently, the huge public backlash 00:26:08.660 --> 00:26:10.819 surrounding his support for Danny Masterson. 00:26:10.819 --> 00:26:12.720 This became a massive crisis for him, didn't 00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:15.420 it? Immense fallout, yeah. So Danny Masterson, 00:26:15.420 --> 00:26:17.839 his longtime co -star from both that 70s show 00:26:17.839 --> 00:26:20.700 and The Ranch, was convicted on two counts of 00:26:20.700 --> 00:26:23.839 forcible rape. Right. Decades -old crimes. Yes. 00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:27.380 And after the conviction, but before sentencing, 00:26:27.519 --> 00:26:30.619 both Kutcher and Mila Kunis wrote letters to 00:26:30.619 --> 00:26:32.720 the judge. Character reference letters, basically. 00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:35.720 Supporting Masterson, what did they say? They 00:26:35.720 --> 00:26:38.339 wrote about him being, in their experience, a 00:26:38.339 --> 00:26:40.920 good person, a role model, someone who treated 00:26:40.920 --> 00:26:44.039 people with decency, equality, and generosity. 00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:47.000 Focused on his character as they knew him personally 00:26:47.000 --> 00:26:49.160 and professionally over many years. But sending 00:26:49.160 --> 00:26:52.339 letters supporting a convicted rapist? Especially 00:26:52.339 --> 00:26:54.980 given Kutcher's work with Thorne, the anti -exploitation 00:26:54.980 --> 00:26:57.720 charity he co -founded, that seems like a huge 00:26:57.720 --> 00:27:00.970 conflict. Exactly. The contradiction was glaring 00:27:00.970 --> 00:27:04.029 and immediate. Here's the public face of a major 00:27:04.029 --> 00:27:07.069 organization fighting sexual exploitation, privately 00:27:07.069 --> 00:27:08.950 vouching for the character of someone just found 00:27:08.950 --> 00:27:11.470 guilty of rape. The public backlash was swift 00:27:11.470 --> 00:27:14.369 and incredibly harsh. People were furious. Understandably. 00:27:14.390 --> 00:27:17.289 The criticism was intense. It led Kutcher and 00:27:17.289 --> 00:27:19.630 Kunis to release an apology video. How did that 00:27:19.630 --> 00:27:22.650 go over? Not well, generally. They tried to explain 00:27:22.650 --> 00:27:25.009 the letters were just for the judge. part of 00:27:25.009 --> 00:27:27.569 the legal process, never intended to re -traumatize 00:27:27.569 --> 00:27:30.250 victims or undermine the justice system. But 00:27:30.250 --> 00:27:33.309 many people found the apology itself felt off. 00:27:33.529 --> 00:27:37.509 How so? What was the criticism? Terms like performative 00:27:37.509 --> 00:27:41.269 and insincere were used a lot. Critics felt it 00:27:41.269 --> 00:27:43.650 focused too much on their intentions rather than 00:27:43.650 --> 00:27:46.210 the actual impact of their actions, the harm 00:27:46.210 --> 00:27:48.369 caused by appearing to minimize serious crimes. 00:27:48.809 --> 00:27:50.910 It felt like they were apologizing for getting 00:27:50.910 --> 00:27:53.619 caught, not for the judgment itself. And there 00:27:53.619 --> 00:27:55.539 were real consequences for Kutcher from this, 00:27:55.640 --> 00:27:57.859 right, professionally? The damage to his reputation, 00:27:58.019 --> 00:28:00.420 particularly in relation to his activism, was 00:28:00.420 --> 00:28:03.000 severe. The pressure mounted, and ultimately 00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:05.119 he had to make a choice. He stepped down from 00:28:05.119 --> 00:28:07.460 Thorne. Correct. He resigned as chairman of the 00:28:07.460 --> 00:28:09.740 board of Thorne, a direct result of the controversy. 00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:13.000 It was a clear, painful example of how private 00:28:13.000 --> 00:28:15.220 loyalties, when they clash with a very public 00:28:15.220 --> 00:28:17.500 humanitarian mission, can force accountability 00:28:17.500 --> 00:28:20.660 and have significant professional costs. Wow. 00:28:20.980 --> 00:28:23.539 Okay, so summing all this up. It's quite a journey. 00:28:23.759 --> 00:28:26.559 We started talking about the guy yelling burn 00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:29.519 on a sitcom. Yeah, Michael Kelso. And we've ended 00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:32.250 up deep diving into, I mean. Systemic health 00:28:32.250 --> 00:28:35.710 crises, complex family trauma, witnessing murder 00:28:35.710 --> 00:28:39.269 trials, navigating global investments, geopolitical 00:28:39.269 --> 00:28:42.450 controversies, and these really profound ethical 00:28:42.450 --> 00:28:44.690 challenges. An incredible art. Ashton Kutcher's 00:28:44.690 --> 00:28:47.049 career really is this study in duality, isn't 00:28:47.049 --> 00:28:49.289 it? The kid selling plasma for an engineering 00:28:49.289 --> 00:28:52.769 degree becomes the $750 ,000 an episode actor. 00:28:53.089 --> 00:28:56.130 Then he leverages that fame into becoming a seriously 00:28:56.130 --> 00:28:58.769 successful venture capitalist and uses that influence 00:28:58.769 --> 00:29:01.119 for major activist work like Thorne. like the 00:29:01.119 --> 00:29:03.819 ukraine fundraiser what really stands out i think 00:29:03.819 --> 00:29:06.440 is the um the intellectual rigor he seems to 00:29:06.440 --> 00:29:08.539 apply to his celebrity status it's not just about 00:29:08.539 --> 00:29:10.740 enjoying the field it's a tool it's a calculated 00:29:10.740 --> 00:29:14.529 lever Consistently using fame to generate capital, 00:29:14.710 --> 00:29:18.109 build networks, direct media reach through catalyst 00:29:18.109 --> 00:29:21.309 A -plus, A -grade sound ventures, and often, 00:29:21.349 --> 00:29:23.509 yeah, directed towards specific goals, sometimes 00:29:23.509 --> 00:29:26.210 humanitarian, sometimes just good business. You 00:29:26.210 --> 00:29:27.970 still see that problem -solving mindset we talked 00:29:27.970 --> 00:29:30.750 about from his Iowa days. His life really is 00:29:30.750 --> 00:29:33.230 a masterclass in adaptation and taking risks 00:29:33.230 --> 00:29:36.210 and leveraging a brand for financial power. But 00:29:36.210 --> 00:29:38.829 also, crucially, it shows that those decisions, 00:29:38.990 --> 00:29:41.670 whether it's supporting Masterson or the pop 00:29:41.670 --> 00:29:44.750 chips ad fiasco can come with huge public scrutiny 00:29:44.750 --> 00:29:47.650 and force really difficult sacrifices like stepping 00:29:47.650 --> 00:29:49.730 down from Thorne. So thinking about all this, 00:29:49.789 --> 00:29:52.349 what does it mean for you, the listener? You've 00:29:52.349 --> 00:29:54.549 heard how this world where celebrity fame crashes 00:29:54.549 --> 00:29:57.819 into big money venture capital. It inevitably 00:29:57.819 --> 00:30:00.819 gets tangled up in really complex, often ethically 00:30:00.819 --> 00:30:02.640 tricky situations. Yeah. I mean, look at the 00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:05.140 examples. Supporting Israeli defense forces financially 00:30:05.140 --> 00:30:07.680 while simultaneously facing protests over an 00:30:07.680 --> 00:30:10.539 investment in Airbnb's West Bank listings. Running 00:30:10.539 --> 00:30:13.059 a major anti -exploitation charity while also 00:30:13.059 --> 00:30:14.980 writing a character reference for a friend convicted 00:30:14.980 --> 00:30:17.480 of sexual violence. Yeah. It's messy. It really 00:30:17.480 --> 00:30:19.779 is. Which maybe leaves us with a final thought 00:30:19.779 --> 00:30:22.880 to chew on. Go for it. What does the future look 00:30:22.880 --> 00:30:25.839 like for these high profile figures, these celebrities 00:30:25.839 --> 00:30:28.099 who are increasingly trying to use their huge 00:30:28.099 --> 00:30:32.099 financial power, their media platforms to influence 00:30:32.099 --> 00:30:35.599 global policy, investment, activism? It's a growing 00:30:35.599 --> 00:30:38.500 trend for sure. Right. And how do we, the public, 00:30:38.579 --> 00:30:41.640 hold them accountable when their private actions, 00:30:41.799 --> 00:30:44.599 their personal loyalties seem to contradict the 00:30:44.599 --> 00:30:46.799 very public image of their global philanthropy 00:30:46.799 --> 00:30:49.599 or their business ethics? That line between actor, 00:30:49.660 --> 00:30:52.700 investor, activist. philanthropist. It's getting 00:30:52.700 --> 00:30:54.660 blurrier all the time, isn't it? And the stakes, 00:30:54.819 --> 00:30:56.700 as we've seen with Kutcher, for getting that 00:30:56.700 --> 00:30:58.779 balancing act wrong, they seem higher than ever.