WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.000 Welcome back to the Deep Dive. Our job here, 00:00:02.080 --> 00:00:04.919 as always, is taking this big pile of sources, 00:00:05.059 --> 00:00:07.719 articles, notes, research, and basically giving 00:00:07.719 --> 00:00:10.099 you the ultimate shortcut to getting up to speed. 00:00:11.240 --> 00:00:13.679 Today, we are doing a deep dive into someone 00:00:13.679 --> 00:00:17.379 who, well, he really embodies professional chaos 00:00:17.379 --> 00:00:21.179 and maybe radical authenticity. We're talking 00:00:21.179 --> 00:00:23.170 about Eddie Juan. Yeah, it's fascinating. If 00:00:23.170 --> 00:00:25.410 you just like looked at the list of jobs Eddie 00:00:25.410 --> 00:00:27.730 Huang has had, you probably think you were looking 00:00:27.730 --> 00:00:30.050 at maybe three or four completely different people's 00:00:30.050 --> 00:00:32.509 careers. I mean, the journey starts in, you know, 00:00:32.530 --> 00:00:34.469 the super structured world of corporate law. 00:00:34.609 --> 00:00:36.770 Then it kind of detours through stand up comedy, 00:00:36.909 --> 00:00:39.429 some what's called illicit business, finds huge 00:00:39.429 --> 00:00:42.049 success as a chef and author. And then he turns 00:00:42.049 --> 00:00:44.429 right around and uses that very success as fuel 00:00:44.429 --> 00:00:47.229 for some really pointed cultural critique. It's 00:00:47.229 --> 00:00:49.289 quite a ride. It really is. The guy has successfully 00:00:49.289 --> 00:00:51.939 navigated fields that for most. people are just 00:00:51.939 --> 00:00:54.200 completely separate worlds. Corporate lawyer, 00:00:54.359 --> 00:00:56.079 then stand -up comic, then marijuana dealer, 00:00:56.259 --> 00:00:58.780 then a critically acclaimed chef, a best -selling 00:00:58.780 --> 00:01:01.960 author, and a film director. It's honestly kind 00:01:01.960 --> 00:01:04.500 of baffling how he pulls it off, how he exists 00:01:04.500 --> 00:01:06.340 at the intersection of all these things. And 00:01:06.340 --> 00:01:08.299 that's really our mission today, isn't it? We're 00:01:08.299 --> 00:01:10.299 digging through all this material, not just to 00:01:10.299 --> 00:01:13.000 list his accomplishments, but to really try and 00:01:13.000 --> 00:01:15.900 understand the blueprint, if there is one. How 00:01:15.900 --> 00:01:17.819 does someone pivot so dramatically between these 00:01:17.819 --> 00:01:20.400 really high stakes, formal environments, think 00:01:20.400 --> 00:01:23.340 the Innocence Project, and then disruptive entrepreneurship, 00:01:23.620 --> 00:01:26.560 all while cultivating this incredibly outspoken, 00:01:26.560 --> 00:01:28.980 often, you know. pretty controversial public 00:01:28.980 --> 00:01:31.640 persona. Yeah, exactly. And for you listening, 00:01:31.859 --> 00:01:34.319 this deep dive is almost like a masterclass in 00:01:34.319 --> 00:01:36.739 how you maintain some sense of identity while 00:01:36.739 --> 00:01:38.799 your professional life is just radically changing 00:01:38.799 --> 00:01:40.780 all the time. Yeah. We really need to figure 00:01:40.780 --> 00:01:42.799 out what the constant is, you know, in a career 00:01:42.799 --> 00:01:45.640 that seems defined by constant variables. So 00:01:45.640 --> 00:01:48.060 let's unpack that foundation, that sort of contradictory 00:01:48.060 --> 00:01:50.400 beginning that made it all possible. Hashtag 00:01:50.400 --> 00:01:53.319 tag IIRD life education and the contradictory 00:01:53.319 --> 00:01:55.969 foundation. OK, so the sources right away, they 00:01:55.969 --> 00:01:58.349 throw you into this world of duality. Eddie Huang, 00:01:58.549 --> 00:02:00.709 born Edwin Charles Huang in Fairfax, Virginia, 00:02:00.930 --> 00:02:03.790 back in 1982. His history just seems defined 00:02:03.790 --> 00:02:06.370 by this extreme academic achievement happening 00:02:06.370 --> 00:02:08.310 right alongside some pretty significant personal 00:02:08.310 --> 00:02:10.830 conflict. Yeah, you absolutely have to start 00:02:10.830 --> 00:02:13.310 with the family background. His parents, Jessica 00:02:13.310 --> 00:02:15.110 and Louis Huang, they were Taiwanese immigrants. 00:02:15.289 --> 00:02:18.090 And the sources specifically note they were Weishengren. 00:02:18.449 --> 00:02:20.610 Now, for anyone listening who might not know, 00:02:20.710 --> 00:02:23.270 that's a specific term. It refers to families 00:02:23.270 --> 00:02:25.349 who moved. move from mainland China to Taiwan 00:02:25.349 --> 00:02:27.949 around the time of the Chinese Civil War following 00:02:27.949 --> 00:02:31.150 the KMT. So his father's family was originally 00:02:31.150 --> 00:02:34.009 from Hunan. His mother's from Shandong on the 00:02:34.009 --> 00:02:36.449 mainland. This isn't just a generic immigrant 00:02:36.449 --> 00:02:39.370 story. There's a layer of specific history, maybe 00:02:39.370 --> 00:02:41.669 even displacement baked in there. Right. That 00:02:41.669 --> 00:02:43.550 context is important. And this family history, 00:02:43.710 --> 00:02:45.389 it also sets up the business side of things, 00:02:45.550 --> 00:02:48.110 right? He grew up first in Silver Spring, Maryland, 00:02:48.370 --> 00:02:51.530 then Orlando, Florida. And his dad owned successful 00:02:51.530 --> 00:02:53.800 restaurants there, places like Atlantic Bay Seafood 00:02:53.800 --> 00:02:56.259 and Grill, Cattleman's Ranch Steakhouse, big 00:02:56.259 --> 00:02:59.759 operations. That restaurant background is absolutely 00:02:59.759 --> 00:03:01.939 crucial. You can't overstate it. He was immersed 00:03:01.939 --> 00:03:05.620 really young in that intense, high pressure world 00:03:05.620 --> 00:03:07.979 of the service industry, you know, a world where 00:03:07.979 --> 00:03:10.539 organization, keeping your cool, it's constantly 00:03:10.539 --> 00:03:12.680 tested. But at the same time, there was this 00:03:12.680 --> 00:03:15.240 personal chaos going on. The sources mentioned 00:03:15.240 --> 00:03:17.680 he was frequently getting into fights, apparently 00:03:17.680 --> 00:03:19.539 resulting in at least two arrests for assault 00:03:19.539 --> 00:03:21.539 charges when he was younger. So you've got this 00:03:21.539 --> 00:03:23.740 volatility. happening, maybe at home, definitely 00:03:23.740 --> 00:03:26.060 in his personal life. But the academic track 00:03:26.060 --> 00:03:28.259 is just moving along, seemingly untouched by 00:03:28.259 --> 00:03:30.439 all that conflict. What about cultural influences? 00:03:30.479 --> 00:03:33.099 That seems key too. Oh, absolutely key. That's 00:03:33.099 --> 00:03:35.219 really where his later persona starts to form. 00:03:35.379 --> 00:03:38.580 He developed this really deep appreciation for 00:03:38.580 --> 00:03:40.759 African -American culture, especially hip hop, 00:03:40.819 --> 00:03:43.080 from a really young age. And this wasn't just 00:03:43.080 --> 00:03:46.180 like casual listening. The sources suggest this 00:03:46.180 --> 00:03:48.360 was a deep cultural identification, something 00:03:48.360 --> 00:03:50.300 outside the sort of traditional expectations 00:03:50.300 --> 00:03:52.599 maybe placed on an Asian -American kid back then. 00:03:52.680 --> 00:03:55.379 And that unconventionality, that interest, it 00:03:55.379 --> 00:03:58.300 definitely fueled the style and the critique 00:03:58.300 --> 00:04:00.500 that would later define his writing and his whole 00:04:00.500 --> 00:04:02.979 public career. It was like his first major pivot 00:04:02.979 --> 00:04:06.080 away from some kind of prescribed identity. And 00:04:06.080 --> 00:04:08.039 yet, look at how well he did within the system, 00:04:08.159 --> 00:04:10.599 the mainstream institutional system. Dr. Phillips 00:04:10.599 --> 00:04:12.759 High School in Orlando, then College University 00:04:12.759 --> 00:04:14.860 Pittsburgh and Rollins College. He graduated 00:04:14.860 --> 00:04:18.529 from Rollins in 2004. B .A. in english and film 00:04:18.529 --> 00:04:20.509 pretty standard success track right now more 00:04:20.509 --> 00:04:22.870 than standard this is where you see the let's 00:04:22.870 --> 00:04:24.870 call it the structural ability really kicking 00:04:24.870 --> 00:04:27.029 in he wasn't just getting by he was winning awards 00:04:27.029 --> 00:04:29.990 at rollins he snagged the barbara lawrence alfon 00:04:29.990 --> 00:04:32.410 english award and the zora neale hurston award 00:04:32.410 --> 00:04:34.769 that's a big deal plus he was the sports and 00:04:34.769 --> 00:04:36.810 humor editor for the school paper the sand spur 00:04:36.810 --> 00:04:41.149 so you see this intense focus on literature communication 00:04:41.149 --> 00:04:43.750 critical thinking all that stuff okay and then 00:04:43.750 --> 00:04:46.480 the ultimate move towards the establishment law 00:04:46.480 --> 00:04:48.860 school. He gets his J .D. from Cardozo School 00:04:48.860 --> 00:04:51.259 of Law at Yeshiva University in 2008. And look 00:04:51.259 --> 00:04:53.160 at the work he did during law school. It shows, 00:04:53.279 --> 00:04:55.819 I mean, serious intellectual horsepower and a 00:04:55.819 --> 00:04:59.120 real desire to engage with systems of power, 00:04:59.259 --> 00:05:02.079 maybe even challenge them. He worked at the Innocence 00:05:02.079 --> 00:05:04.519 Project. For those listening, that's the organization 00:05:04.519 --> 00:05:07.300 dedicated to exonerating wrongly convicted people, 00:05:07.560 --> 00:05:10.480 often using DNA testing and pushing for criminal 00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:13.319 justice reform. That's a highly analytical field, 00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:15.800 right? Emotionally demanding, too. And it's all 00:05:15.800 --> 00:05:19.639 centered on exposing systemic failure. That detail 00:05:19.639 --> 00:05:22.579 about the Innocence Project feels huge. It shows 00:05:22.579 --> 00:05:24.639 he understands how to critique institutions from 00:05:24.639 --> 00:05:26.959 the inside, doesn't it? Absolutely. And beyond 00:05:26.959 --> 00:05:29.379 that, he was really involved in student groups, 00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:32.120 president of the Minority Law Students Association, 00:05:32.579 --> 00:05:34.379 vice president of the Asian Pacific American 00:05:34.379 --> 00:05:37.779 Law Students Association. He even won a New York 00:05:37.779 --> 00:05:40.379 City Bar Association Minority Fellowship in 2006. 00:05:40.860 --> 00:05:43.259 I mean, this guy was perfectly positioned for 00:05:43.259 --> 00:05:46.120 traditional institutional success. The contrast 00:05:46.120 --> 00:05:48.839 is just it's kind of stunning. The young guy 00:05:48.839 --> 00:05:51.860 with assault arrests deep into hip hop culture 00:05:51.860 --> 00:05:54.439 is also operating at the super high level of 00:05:54.439 --> 00:05:56.889 legal prep. focusing on things like criminal 00:05:56.889 --> 00:05:59.279 justice reform. And that, I think, is the essential 00:05:59.279 --> 00:06:01.259 takeaway from these foundational years. You've 00:06:01.259 --> 00:06:03.939 got the legal expertise, that capacity for deep 00:06:03.939 --> 00:06:06.839 research, for structure, for aggressive argument, 00:06:07.060 --> 00:06:09.459 providing the intellectual framework. Then you've 00:06:09.459 --> 00:06:10.720 got the conflict, the restaurant background, 00:06:10.920 --> 00:06:12.800 the cultural immersion, providing the, well, 00:06:12.920 --> 00:06:15.879 the raw, unpredictable material. This duality 00:06:15.879 --> 00:06:17.500 meant he was kind of equipped to win within the 00:06:17.500 --> 00:06:19.579 system, but also maybe culturally programmed 00:06:19.579 --> 00:06:21.759 to tear that system down if he felt it was necessary. 00:06:22.060 --> 00:06:24.560 OK, so the foundation set. He's got the JD, the 00:06:24.560 --> 00:06:27.449 fellowships, the structure. He hits what... Most 00:06:27.449 --> 00:06:30.269 would see as the peak of early conventional success. 00:06:30.990 --> 00:06:33.889 Landing a job as a corporate attorney. Chad Born 00:06:33.889 --> 00:06:36.389 and Park in New York City. Started as an associate 00:06:36.389 --> 00:06:41.860 in 2008. This is high stakes. Big firm law requires 00:06:41.860 --> 00:06:44.120 serious conformity. Exactly. Corporate law at 00:06:44.120 --> 00:06:46.459 a firm like that. It's a world of complex contracts, 00:06:46.879 --> 00:06:49.560 mergers, high finance. It's incredibly demanding, 00:06:49.800 --> 00:06:53.139 requires basically 24 -7 dedication to that structure. 00:06:53.319 --> 00:06:56.800 But then the very system he trained so hard to 00:06:56.800 --> 00:06:59.259 conquer basically failed him. The 2008 financial 00:06:59.259 --> 00:07:02.360 crisis hit hard. Yeah. And bam, he was laid off 00:07:02.360 --> 00:07:04.439 within a year. Wow. That must have felt like 00:07:04.439 --> 00:07:06.839 everything he'd worked for just got erased. Years 00:07:06.839 --> 00:07:09.569 of academic grind gone because of global. economic 00:07:09.569 --> 00:07:12.490 meltdown. Totally. And his reaction to that institutional 00:07:12.490 --> 00:07:15.069 failure wasn't, you know, try to find another 00:07:15.069 --> 00:07:17.350 law job. It was a hard swerve into the completely 00:07:17.350 --> 00:07:20.170 unconventional. The sources say right after the 00:07:20.170 --> 00:07:22.389 layoff, he griefily worked as a stand up comic. 00:07:22.509 --> 00:07:24.129 And then here's that radical dissonance again 00:07:24.129 --> 00:07:26.509 as a marijuana dealer. OK, I can kind of see 00:07:26.509 --> 00:07:29.389 the connection to the conflict, the need for 00:07:29.389 --> 00:07:31.870 material, maybe for comedy, but stand up and 00:07:31.870 --> 00:07:36.379 dealing. Were those serious paths? Or was the 00:07:36.379 --> 00:07:39.019 pivot to food already kind of brewing, does the 00:07:39.019 --> 00:07:41.939 sources say? The sources frame it more as a reactive 00:07:41.939 --> 00:07:44.899 phase, almost like survival mode. Stand up, dealing. 00:07:45.079 --> 00:07:48.120 They provided cash, maybe some stories. But the 00:07:48.120 --> 00:07:50.519 underlying ambition always seemed entrepreneurial, 00:07:50.720 --> 00:07:52.920 which, you know, links right back to his family 00:07:52.920 --> 00:07:55.680 background. Even before food took off, he tested 00:07:55.680 --> 00:07:58.120 the waters in fashion, ran a streetwear company 00:07:58.120 --> 00:08:00.660 called Hoodman Clothing, originally Bergdorf 00:08:00.660 --> 00:08:04.319 Hoodman from about 2006 to 2009, co -creating 00:08:04.319 --> 00:08:07.800 designs with Ning Wang. So an early sign of mixing 00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:11.319 cultural commentary with like retail. But the 00:08:11.319 --> 00:08:13.339 real professional identity he carved out was 00:08:13.339 --> 00:08:14.899 definitely in the kitchen. He had the family 00:08:14.899 --> 00:08:17.620 training, obviously, but no formal culinary school. 00:08:17.759 --> 00:08:19.839 Nope. His education there was totally organic. 00:08:20.120 --> 00:08:22.100 Learned cooking from his mom, picked up techniques 00:08:22.100 --> 00:08:24.480 and crucially management skills from watching 00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:26.319 and working with chefs in his dad's restaurants. 00:08:26.579 --> 00:08:28.720 He specifically credits his dad with teaching 00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:30.759 him how to be a really good expediter. Right. 00:08:30.839 --> 00:08:32.929 The expediter. Yeah. For anyone listening who 00:08:32.929 --> 00:08:34.909 doesn't know the kitchen lingo, that's the person 00:08:34.909 --> 00:08:37.149 who basically organizes and times all the orders. 00:08:37.350 --> 00:08:39.769 The crucial link between the kitchen line and 00:08:39.769 --> 00:08:42.730 the servers. It's pure organizational skill under 00:08:42.730 --> 00:08:44.750 pressure. Exactly. It's basically the lawyer 00:08:44.750 --> 00:08:46.730 brain applied to the chaos of a busy kitchen. 00:08:47.029 --> 00:08:49.470 He took those high pressure organizational skills 00:08:49.470 --> 00:08:52.019 home during his JD. learned in his youth, and 00:08:52.019 --> 00:08:54.720 applied them to his own vision. And it paid off 00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:57.340 pretty quick. Chao .com named him to their Chao 00:08:57.340 --> 00:09:00.940 13 list in 2011, basically a list of influential 00:09:00.940 --> 00:09:03.659 people and food. And then came Bao House. Bao 00:09:03.659 --> 00:09:06.559 House. Opened December 2009, Lower East Side. 00:09:06.700 --> 00:09:09.679 Yeah. Focused on those Taiwanese guabao, the 00:09:09.679 --> 00:09:12.639 steamed buns. And it was a huge hit immediately. 00:09:12.960 --> 00:09:15.039 It got tons of media attention. People loved 00:09:15.039 --> 00:09:17.279 the unique food. It was affordable. It eventually 00:09:17.279 --> 00:09:19.700 moved to a bigger spot on East 14th Street in 00:09:19.700 --> 00:09:22.500 2011. Bauhaus was like his focused, well -executed 00:09:22.500 --> 00:09:25.000 success story. But then we hit that sharp contrast 00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:27.759 again. Bauhaus is flying high. And then there's 00:09:27.759 --> 00:09:30.919 the rapid kind of spectacular failure of Xiaoye. 00:09:31.059 --> 00:09:33.700 Right. Xiaoye, his second restaurant venture. 00:09:34.100 --> 00:09:37.039 And yeah, it failed fast. Poor reviews, plus 00:09:37.039 --> 00:09:39.340 that controversy over selling Four Loko, which 00:09:39.340 --> 00:09:41.580 was a whole thing back then. The sources give 00:09:41.580 --> 00:09:44.100 us this just stunning detail. Sam Sifton, the 00:09:44.100 --> 00:09:46.139 critic for The New York Times at the time, awarded 00:09:46.139 --> 00:09:49.799 Xiaoye zero stars. Out of four, zero. HR stars 00:09:49.799 --> 00:09:52.399 from The Times. That's absolutely brutal for 00:09:52.399 --> 00:09:54.740 a new restaurant in New York. Devastating. But 00:09:54.740 --> 00:09:57.080 the critique itself, what Sifton wrote, might 00:09:57.080 --> 00:09:58.960 be the most telling part of this whole chapter. 00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:02.019 He didn't just slam the food. He criticized... 00:10:02.169 --> 00:10:05.190 Huang's focus. He wrote something like, if Huang 00:10:05.190 --> 00:10:07.490 spent even a third of the time cooking that he 00:10:07.490 --> 00:10:09.789 does, writing funny blog posts and wry Twitter 00:10:09.789 --> 00:10:12.149 updates, posting hip -hop videos and responding 00:10:12.149 --> 00:10:15.070 to internet folks, Xiaoye might actually have 00:10:15.070 --> 00:10:17.929 been interesting. Wow. So Sifton's take was essentially 00:10:17.929 --> 00:10:19.970 that the public persona, the very thing making 00:10:19.970 --> 00:10:22.129 the brand drawing people in, was actively undermining 00:10:22.129 --> 00:10:24.409 the actual restaurant, the execution in the kitchen. 00:10:24.779 --> 00:10:27.059 It's the perfect synthesis of that dual nature 00:10:27.059 --> 00:10:29.940 we talked about earlier, right? His like irresistible 00:10:29.940 --> 00:10:32.480 urge for public engagement, for provocation, 00:10:32.519 --> 00:10:34.960 which fueled the successful blog and build his 00:10:34.960 --> 00:10:38.039 identity. It got ahead of the practical, structured 00:10:38.039 --> 00:10:40.960 execution needed for Xiaoye. It really shows 00:10:40.960 --> 00:10:43.740 how radical authenticity can be a powerful marketing 00:10:43.740 --> 00:10:46.279 tool. Absolutely. But if it distracts too much 00:10:46.279 --> 00:10:48.159 from the core product, well, the business itself 00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:51.080 can just collapse. Hashtag three, the author, 00:10:51.200 --> 00:10:53.639 the show and the public conflict. OK, so the 00:10:53.639 --> 00:10:56.659 blogging. The public persona despite the Xiaoye 00:10:56.659 --> 00:10:59.059 crash that actually leads to his biggest cultural 00:10:59.059 --> 00:11:02.419 moment yet. The memoir. He takes his blog, fresh 00:11:02.419 --> 00:11:04.759 off the boat, turns it into a book. Random House 00:11:04.759 --> 00:11:07.879 publishes it in 2013. Gets great reviews. Publishers 00:11:07.879 --> 00:11:10.299 Weekly. The New York Times. Becomes a bestseller. 00:11:10.460 --> 00:11:12.700 Yeah, that transition felt pretty natural, actually. 00:11:12.799 --> 00:11:14.480 He clearly had the writing chops. I remember 00:11:14.480 --> 00:11:16.440 those English awards back at Rollins. And he 00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:19.059 had this incredible, explosive material from 00:11:19.059 --> 00:11:21.139 his own contradictory life. He really cemented 00:11:21.139 --> 00:11:23.440 himself as a cultural commentator with that book. 00:11:23.799 --> 00:11:25.440 Followed it up, too, with Double Cup Love in 00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:29.059 2016 about family, food, China. And even before 00:11:29.059 --> 00:11:31.659 the sitcom hit. He was already on TV quite a 00:11:31.659 --> 00:11:34.100 bit, hosting shows like Cheap Bites, Unique Eats 00:11:34.100 --> 00:11:36.279 for the Cooking Channel. He developed that Viceland 00:11:36.279 --> 00:11:38.879 segment, also called Fresh Off the Boat, into 00:11:38.879 --> 00:11:41.840 the hour -long show Huang's World, explored food 00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:44.860 and culture globally, and then maybe the most... 00:11:45.620 --> 00:11:49.519 surprising one, Snackoff on MTV in 2014, where 00:11:49.519 --> 00:11:51.379 he's mentoring contestants making weird stuff 00:11:51.379 --> 00:11:54.059 with like fish sticks and canned oysters. Hold 00:11:54.059 --> 00:11:57.100 on, Snackoff, on MTV, how does that fit? You've 00:11:57.100 --> 00:11:59.139 got the corporate lawyer background, the acclaimed 00:11:59.139 --> 00:12:01.720 memoir, then judging a snack food competition. 00:12:02.179 --> 00:12:04.559 Huh. Well, maybe it fits the pattern. You know, 00:12:04.559 --> 00:12:06.679 embracing the absurd, the high energy, maybe 00:12:06.679 --> 00:12:08.759 even the low brow end of culture while still 00:12:08.759 --> 00:12:11.279 having this literary intellectual thing going 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:13.179 on, building the brand everywhere, I guess. Yeah. 00:12:13.220 --> 00:12:15.019 But the moment that really catapulted him. into 00:12:15.019 --> 00:12:17.320 a different stratosphere of public identity was 00:12:17.320 --> 00:12:20.519 ABC ordering the sitcom based on his memoir in 00:12:20.519 --> 00:12:23.220 2014. That was huge. A landmark moment, really. 00:12:23.340 --> 00:12:26.299 Debuted February 2015. First Asian -American 00:12:26.299 --> 00:12:29.159 family sitcom on a major network in, what, decades? 00:12:29.460 --> 00:12:31.879 Stars Randall Park, Constance Wu, Hudson Yang 00:12:31.879 --> 00:12:34.179 as young Eddie. Instant cultural significance. 00:12:34.740 --> 00:12:37.379 Yeah, massive significance. And yet, the guy 00:12:37.379 --> 00:12:39.659 whose life it was supposedly based on became 00:12:39.659 --> 00:12:43.779 its loudest critic. The sources say he was outspoken 00:12:43.779 --> 00:12:46.019 in his criticism of how it was developed. He 00:12:46.019 --> 00:12:48.139 didn't just like quietly disagree and walk away. 00:12:48.259 --> 00:12:50.659 No, he wrote this long, really scathing essay 00:12:50.659 --> 00:12:52.559 about it. That's where he famously coined the 00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:56.399 term bamboo ceiling TV. And that concept was 00:12:56.399 --> 00:12:58.879 central to his whole critique. Basically, that 00:12:58.879 --> 00:13:02.100 the show was engineered for success by, well, 00:13:02.240 --> 00:13:06.480 sanitizing the messy, complex reality of the 00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:09.059 immigrant experience, making it palatable, easy 00:13:09.059 --> 00:13:11.840 to digest for a broad, mainstream, probably mostly 00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:14.799 white network audience. So what specific compromises 00:13:14.799 --> 00:13:17.419 was he seeing? What did the network want that 00:13:17.419 --> 00:13:19.509 rubbed him the wrong way? The sources suggest 00:13:19.509 --> 00:13:21.889 he felt the show just strayed too far from the 00:13:21.889 --> 00:13:24.070 raw, sometimes painful stuff in his memoir. You 00:13:24.070 --> 00:13:25.570 know, the reality of being an immigrant kid, 00:13:25.710 --> 00:13:27.750 the socioeconomic struggles his family faced. 00:13:27.870 --> 00:13:30.330 He felt it got transformed into a more generic 00:13:30.330 --> 00:13:33.289 kind of aspirational middle class family comedy. 00:13:33.690 --> 00:13:36.309 That the structure of network TV itself, needing 00:13:36.309 --> 00:13:38.450 neat narratives, predictable conflicts, feel 00:13:38.450 --> 00:13:40.830 good endings, just erased the abrasive truth 00:13:40.830 --> 00:13:42.769 he'd written about. He did narrate the first 00:13:42.769 --> 00:13:45.409 season, right? But then left entirely before 00:13:45.409 --> 00:13:48.269 season two started. Yep. And he made it incredibly 00:13:48.269 --> 00:13:51.450 clear he doesn't like the show, said it was because 00:13:51.450 --> 00:13:54.950 the storyline after the pilot just went way off 00:13:54.950 --> 00:13:57.289 course from his actual memoir. I mean, think 00:13:57.289 --> 00:14:00.870 about that. It's almost unheard of publicly trashing 00:14:00.870 --> 00:14:03.230 the adaptation of your own life story, especially 00:14:03.230 --> 00:14:05.690 one that's commercially successful. Did he ever, 00:14:05.730 --> 00:14:08.830 like, watch it again after leaving? There were. 00:14:09.179 --> 00:14:11.279 Hundreds of episodes eventually. According to 00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:14.320 the sources, only two times. He watched an episode 00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:17.080 with a DMX cameo, which, surprisingly, he kind 00:14:17.080 --> 00:14:19.000 of liked. Said it reflected some interactions 00:14:19.000 --> 00:14:21.240 he wrote about in Double Cup Love, showing a 00:14:21.240 --> 00:14:23.539 different side of his life. The other time, he 00:14:23.539 --> 00:14:25.899 apparently tuned in briefly when the family visited 00:14:25.899 --> 00:14:28.799 Taiwan in an episode, and he immediately disliked 00:14:28.799 --> 00:14:31.159 it. Said it felt totally inauthentic. This is 00:14:31.159 --> 00:14:32.919 really the core of his public persona, isn't 00:14:32.919 --> 00:14:36.200 it? He sacrificed this potentially massive ongoing 00:14:36.200 --> 00:14:39.000 commercial win, one that definitely solidified 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:41.779 his fame just to maintain the integrity of his 00:14:41.779 --> 00:14:44.080 cultural critique. It's the ultimate refusal 00:14:44.080 --> 00:14:47.399 to conform, maybe. He leveraged his life story 00:14:47.399 --> 00:14:50.700 to get exposure, get capital, sure. But he drew 00:14:50.700 --> 00:14:53.720 this incredibly hard line when institutions tried 00:14:53.720 --> 00:14:56.809 to shape that story for him. Rejecting in the 00:14:56.809 --> 00:14:59.110 sitcom was this really high -profile declaration 00:14:59.110 --> 00:15:02.169 that, for him, cultural representation, if it's 00:15:02.169 --> 00:15:04.490 compromised, is basically worthless, even if 00:15:04.490 --> 00:15:07.889 it brings fame and money. Hashtag tag 5E. The 00:15:07.889 --> 00:15:10.649 provocateur and cultural appropriation controversies. 00:15:10.830 --> 00:15:13.629 Okay, so that dedication to being uncompromising, 00:15:13.629 --> 00:15:16.769 radically authentic, it often tips over into 00:15:16.769 --> 00:15:18.809 just pure provocation, doesn't it? Especially 00:15:18.809 --> 00:15:21.450 around race and culture. Which brings us to the 00:15:21.450 --> 00:15:23.210 controversies that have definitely followed him. 00:15:23.289 --> 00:15:24.809 Yeah, we definitely have to talk about the backlash 00:15:24.809 --> 00:15:27.169 he got after comments he made on Real Time with 00:15:27.169 --> 00:15:30.230 Bill Maher back in May 2015. This is really where 00:15:30.230 --> 00:15:32.730 his outspoken style collided with some very complex 00:15:32.730 --> 00:15:34.909 intersectional criticism. Right. He made that 00:15:34.909 --> 00:15:37.230 really polarizing statement. He said, I feel 00:15:37.230 --> 00:15:39.190 like Asian men have been emasculated so much 00:15:39.190 --> 00:15:41.269 in America that we're basically treated like 00:15:41.269 --> 00:15:43.840 black women. And that comment immediately drew 00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:46.679 huge criticism. And, you know, arguably rightly 00:15:46.679 --> 00:15:50.000 so. The main critique was that it seemed to erase 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:53.059 the very specific history, struggles and identity 00:15:53.059 --> 00:15:56.340 of black women led to accusations of misogynoir, 00:15:56.580 --> 00:15:59.679 that dangerous mix of misogyny and anti -blackness. 00:15:59.899 --> 00:16:02.620 It highlighted this tricky thing. Even if Huang 00:16:02.620 --> 00:16:05.620 was critiquing white power structures, people 00:16:05.620 --> 00:16:08.600 felt he was doing it by stepping on another marginalized 00:16:08.600 --> 00:16:10.879 group. And the whole thing blew up more on Twitter, 00:16:10.940 --> 00:16:13.039 right? Where his attempt to defend himself kind 00:16:13.039 --> 00:16:15.519 of went sideways fast. Yeah, exactly. He got 00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:17.240 into it with a critic who was challenging his 00:16:17.240 --> 00:16:19.779 statement. And instead of engaging with the substance 00:16:19.779 --> 00:16:21.860 of the critique, he sort of deflected by trying 00:16:21.860 --> 00:16:24.059 to make it personal, almost flirtatious. Said 00:16:24.059 --> 00:16:26.240 something like, are we dating? I cause you wild 00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:30.120 in a lull. It came across as a really dismissive, 00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:32.639 maybe even misogynistic way to shut down serious 00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:34.960 criticism. Just fueled the fire. Which connects 00:16:34.960 --> 00:16:37.159 maybe to the other major critique people have 00:16:37.159 --> 00:16:40.080 had. the whole cultural appropriation issue, 00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:42.419 especially regarding African -American culture, 00:16:42.559 --> 00:16:44.840 which, as we said, he's deeply appreciated since 00:16:44.840 --> 00:16:47.720 he was young. Right. Joshua David Stein, writing 00:16:47.720 --> 00:16:49.340 for The New York Times, kind of summed it up 00:16:49.340 --> 00:16:52.279 pretty sharply, described Hwang as a walking 00:16:52.279 --> 00:16:55.159 mixtape of postmodern cultural appropriation. 00:16:55.899 --> 00:16:58.759 it's a memorable line it is but it's also complicated 00:16:58.759 --> 00:17:01.860 right because as the sources point out asian 00:17:01.860 --> 00:17:03.620 americans have been part of hip -hop culture 00:17:03.620 --> 00:17:05.819 for a long time they mentioned fresh kid ice 00:17:05.819 --> 00:17:08.880 from two life crew as an early example that historical 00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:11.960 context is definitely important huang isn't the 00:17:11.960 --> 00:17:13.980 first asian american involved in hip -hop not 00:17:13.980 --> 00:17:17.220 by a long shot but brian hyo writing in new bloom 00:17:17.220 --> 00:17:19.799 magazine tried to pinpoint why huang's specific 00:17:19.799 --> 00:17:22.960 adoption of that persona caused friction Hayao 00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:25.460 pointed to Hwang's, quote, misogynistic language 00:17:25.460 --> 00:17:28.579 and attitudes, his nonconventional English speech 00:17:28.579 --> 00:17:31.279 and dress, his stories about run ins with police 00:17:31.279 --> 00:17:33.220 suggesting it was all part of this consciously 00:17:33.220 --> 00:17:36.700 adopted hip hop influence persona. So the core 00:17:36.700 --> 00:17:38.779 issue for critics wasn't necessarily the influence 00:17:38.779 --> 00:17:41.220 itself, but how that persona, especially the 00:17:41.220 --> 00:17:43.960 language, was used particularly when he was pushing 00:17:43.960 --> 00:17:45.880 back against critics on issues of gender and 00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:48.799 race, like in the Bill Maher fallout. So it's 00:17:48.799 --> 00:17:51.559 less about the appreciation, maybe, and more 00:17:51.559 --> 00:17:53.859 about. the way he used that cultural vocabulary, 00:17:54.259 --> 00:17:56.700 combined with maybe his privileged background, 00:17:56.900 --> 00:17:59.480 his legal training, that argumentative style 00:17:59.480 --> 00:18:01.619 that created the friction. I think that's a good 00:18:01.619 --> 00:18:04.180 way to put it. When challenged, Huang himself 00:18:04.180 --> 00:18:06.700 offered a defense. He said something like, I've 00:18:06.700 --> 00:18:08.960 devoted myself to speaking about people owning 00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:11.700 their own cultures, educating people about the 00:18:11.700 --> 00:18:14.839 foundational values in culture. He sees his work 00:18:14.839 --> 00:18:17.380 as defending cultural ownership. But it seems 00:18:17.380 --> 00:18:19.700 like the risk of being so radically authentic, 00:18:19.940 --> 00:18:22.519 so provocative, is that when you push boundaries 00:18:22.519 --> 00:18:25.079 that aggressively, you eventually become the 00:18:25.079 --> 00:18:27.079 target of the same kind of scrutiny you apply 00:18:27.079 --> 00:18:29.859 to others. Exactly. That legal structure gave 00:18:29.859 --> 00:18:31.940 him the tools and maybe the confidence to argue 00:18:31.940 --> 00:18:34.680 his points forcefully. The cultural vocabulary 00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:37.500 gave him a framework. But blending them sometimes 00:18:37.500 --> 00:18:40.799 meant he, perhaps unintentionally, bulldozed 00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:43.339 over certain nuances, especially intersectional 00:18:43.339 --> 00:18:46.430 ones. And that led to significant backlash. It 00:18:46.430 --> 00:18:48.609 really proves that maintaining that kind of authenticity 00:18:48.609 --> 00:18:51.970 is like navigating a minefield. His whole career 00:18:51.970 --> 00:18:54.329 feels like a living experiment in how far you 00:18:54.329 --> 00:18:56.730 can push a super personalized, provocative cultural 00:18:56.730 --> 00:18:59.490 identity before maybe that identity starts to 00:18:59.490 --> 00:19:02.690 overshadow the message itself. Hashtag V, film 00:19:02.690 --> 00:19:05.750 directing and recent public drama, 2019 -2025. 00:19:06.920 --> 00:19:09.539 Okay, so given his whole history of rejecting 00:19:09.539 --> 00:19:12.079 institutional control, maybe it makes perfect 00:19:12.079 --> 00:19:14.819 sense that his next big move was into film directing, 00:19:15.019 --> 00:19:17.460 a field where he could potentially seize complete 00:19:17.460 --> 00:19:20.960 control over the narrative. In 2019, it was announced 00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:23.480 he'd write and direct Boogie. Yeah, Boogie felt 00:19:23.480 --> 00:19:25.240 like a really significant step. It's a coming 00:19:25.240 --> 00:19:27.660 -of -age story, focuses on a young Chinese -American 00:19:27.660 --> 00:19:30.700 basketball hopeful. Had Taylor Takahashi, Pamela 00:19:30.700 --> 00:19:33.059 Lin Chi, and the rapper Pop Smoke in his acting 00:19:33.059 --> 00:19:35.240 debut, actually. This really let Huang weave 00:19:35.240 --> 00:19:36.920 together all those recurring themes from his 00:19:36.920 --> 00:19:39.160 life basketball, feeling like an outsider as 00:19:39.160 --> 00:19:41.240 a minority, dealing with domestic conflict, but 00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:43.359 this time without a network filter telling him 00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:45.460 what he could or couldn't show. And what really 00:19:45.460 --> 00:19:47.079 stands out about this film, kind of reflecting 00:19:47.079 --> 00:19:50.059 his intense, maybe impulsive creative style, 00:19:50.220 --> 00:19:53.210 is how fast he apparently wrote it. Sources say 00:19:53.210 --> 00:19:55.609 he wrote the entire screenplay in just five days. 00:19:55.809 --> 00:19:59.329 No plan, no outline. Five days. That's almost 00:19:59.329 --> 00:20:01.809 like a manic burst of creativity, isn't it? It 00:20:01.809 --> 00:20:03.710 really reflects that sheer force of personality 00:20:03.710 --> 00:20:07.769 that seems to drive everything he does. Directing 00:20:07.769 --> 00:20:09.650 basically let him take all the material that 00:20:09.650 --> 00:20:12.190 maybe ABC had sanitized and just present it raw, 00:20:12.329 --> 00:20:14.529 completely on his own terms. He's kept doing 00:20:14.529 --> 00:20:16.410 that kind of work, too. Directed a documentary 00:20:16.410 --> 00:20:19.559 in 2025 called Vice is Broke. But his tendency 00:20:19.559 --> 00:20:22.460 to engage directly with conflict, that core part 00:20:22.460 --> 00:20:25.200 of his public persona, it didn't just disappear 00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:27.299 when he stepped behind the camera. It just seems 00:20:27.299 --> 00:20:29.839 to have shifted to the most local, intensely 00:20:29.839 --> 00:20:32.960 personal stage possible, his own NYC apartment 00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:34.980 building. We kind of have to talk about the Matt 00:20:34.980 --> 00:20:38.119 Sauerhoff incident from February 2025. Oh, yeah. 00:20:38.779 --> 00:20:42.079 That incident feels like a perfect, almost textbook 00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:44.859 example of the Huang playbook in action, just 00:20:44.859 --> 00:20:47.319 on a micro level. Identify something you see 00:20:47.319 --> 00:20:50.039 as unjust, expose what you feel is institutional 00:20:50.039 --> 00:20:53.140 hypocrisy, and then use your public platform 00:20:53.140 --> 00:20:56.619 to demand accountability. So Matt Sauerhoff was 00:20:56.619 --> 00:20:59.500 his neighbor, a fitness trainer, apparently a 00:20:59.500 --> 00:21:01.559 former actor. And the whole thing started outside. 00:21:02.170 --> 00:21:04.349 Right. Huang and his dog were supposedly sitting 00:21:04.349 --> 00:21:07.490 on a bench and Sauerhof's unleashed dog allegedly 00:21:07.490 --> 00:21:10.049 knocked them off. And, you know, New York City 00:21:10.049 --> 00:21:12.130 law is pretty clear. Dogs have to be leashed 00:21:12.130 --> 00:21:15.309 in public. Right. So when Huang apparently politely 00:21:15.309 --> 00:21:17.750 asked Sauerhof to leash his dog, the situation 00:21:17.750 --> 00:21:20.490 just blew up. Sauerhof allegedly refused, got 00:21:20.490 --> 00:21:23.150 really angry. The sources described Sauerhof 00:21:23.150 --> 00:21:25.650 going on this long tirade, yelling abuse, swearing 00:21:25.650 --> 00:21:28.190 all inside the lobby of their building. And Huang 00:21:28.190 --> 00:21:30.970 filmed it. And then Sauerhof tried to use the 00:21:30.970 --> 00:21:33.490 building's own system against Hong, right? Falsely 00:21:33.490 --> 00:21:35.589 accused Wong of trespassing in their shared lobby, 00:21:35.710 --> 00:21:37.329 even though Hong lived there, tried to get him 00:21:37.329 --> 00:21:39.569 thrown out. That's the key moment, isn't it? 00:21:39.589 --> 00:21:41.670 It's like pattern recognition. It's the small 00:21:41.670 --> 00:21:44.009 scale version of the TV network trying to tell 00:21:44.009 --> 00:21:46.410 him his story doesn't fit their narrative, that 00:21:46.410 --> 00:21:48.650 he doesn't belong. And Hong, you know, the guy 00:21:48.650 --> 00:21:50.329 who worked at the Innocence Project, who built 00:21:50.329 --> 00:21:53.589 a career calling out what he sees as BS, he instantly 00:21:53.589 --> 00:21:56.799 recognized that move. And the attempt to intimidate 00:21:56.799 --> 00:21:59.680 him didn't stop there. It escalated to Sauerhoff's 00:21:59.680 --> 00:22:02.119 family getting involved. Yeah. Sauerhoff's mother 00:22:02.119 --> 00:22:04.640 -in -law, Dalia Krinsky, apparently confronted 00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:07.519 Huang later, tried to pressure him not to pursue 00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:10.160 charges by saying her husband, Barry H. Krinsky, 00:22:10.299 --> 00:22:13.220 was a superior court judge, which it turns out 00:22:13.220 --> 00:22:15.839 wasn't even true. He was an attorney, not a judge. 00:22:16.059 --> 00:22:19.130 Wow. So they tried to weaponize perceived social 00:22:19.130 --> 00:22:21.309 status, maybe judicial power, even if it was 00:22:21.309 --> 00:22:24.009 exaggerated or just plain false, to shut down 00:22:24.009 --> 00:22:26.650 a complaint about an off -leash dog. It's basically 00:22:26.650 --> 00:22:29.250 institutional maneuvering, just at the most hyper 00:22:29.250 --> 00:22:32.190 -local level imaginable. And Huang, true to form, 00:22:32.289 --> 00:22:34.650 what does he do? He posts the video, reports 00:22:34.650 --> 00:22:37.309 the off -leash violation, demands an apology. 00:22:37.670 --> 00:22:40.190 And the sources say Sauerhoff ended up quitting 00:22:40.190 --> 00:22:42.450 social media because of the huge public backlash 00:22:42.450 --> 00:22:45.089 that Huang effectively orchestrated using his 00:22:45.089 --> 00:22:49.269 platform. It seems almost strange for a public 00:22:49.269 --> 00:22:51.650 figure of his level to get so deeply involved 00:22:51.650 --> 00:22:54.920 in a neighbor dispute. But why is this hyperlocal 00:22:54.920 --> 00:22:57.740 drama actually relevant? Why should you, the 00:22:57.740 --> 00:23:00.559 listener, care about a dog incident? Because 00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:02.779 I think it perfectly frames his entire career 00:23:02.779 --> 00:23:06.220 thesis in a way. Wong seems defined by this refusal 00:23:06.220 --> 00:23:08.559 to let power, whether it's corporate power, network 00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:11.000 power, perceived family status, or even just 00:23:11.000 --> 00:23:13.339 neighborly entitlement, operate unchecked. He 00:23:13.339 --> 00:23:15.220 leverages his fame not just to promote himself, 00:23:15.380 --> 00:23:17.400 but as a tool, almost like a weapon, to demand 00:23:17.400 --> 00:23:19.519 accountability. Whether the injustice is something 00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:21.440 huge and national, like how immigrant stories 00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:23.740 get told, or something seemingly minor, like 00:23:23.740 --> 00:23:25.579 a neighbor breaking loose laws and then trying 00:23:25.579 --> 00:23:27.619 to bully him about it. It's the same pattern 00:23:27.619 --> 00:23:30.089 of resistance. Hashtag tag outro. So when you 00:23:30.089 --> 00:23:32.430 step back, we've really tracked a singular path, 00:23:32.630 --> 00:23:35.509 haven't we? The Innocence Project associate who 00:23:35.509 --> 00:23:38.069 becomes a marijuana dealer, the acclaimed chef 00:23:38.069 --> 00:23:40.930 whose own hype may be sabotaged his second restaurant, 00:23:41.150 --> 00:23:44.170 the best -selling author who then publicly rejects 00:23:44.170 --> 00:23:46.349 the TV show based on his own life while it's 00:23:46.349 --> 00:23:48.809 still running, and the cultural provocateur who 00:23:48.809 --> 00:23:50.849 uses everything, his film work, his personal 00:23:50.849 --> 00:23:53.869 drama, to champion this idea of uncompromising 00:23:53.869 --> 00:23:56.940 truth. It really is the ultimate summary of paradox, 00:23:57.279 --> 00:24:00.079 isn't it? Huang seems to embody these simultaneous, 00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:03.619 often contradictory identities. His success isn't 00:24:03.619 --> 00:24:05.599 built on being consistent within one industry. 00:24:05.920 --> 00:24:08.140 It seems built on the consistency of his critique 00:24:08.140 --> 00:24:10.680 across every industry he touches. He treats each 00:24:10.680 --> 00:24:13.400 field, law, food, books, movies, almost like 00:24:13.400 --> 00:24:15.859 a vehicle to push forward his personal narrative 00:24:15.859 --> 00:24:18.460 and his cultural observations. They're all just 00:24:18.460 --> 00:24:20.759 platforms for the same core project. So if you're 00:24:20.759 --> 00:24:22.319 listening and thinking about your own career, 00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:24.539 your own identity shifts. What's the core lesson 00:24:24.539 --> 00:24:27.319 here? I think it's about the power but also the 00:24:27.319 --> 00:24:29.740 profound complication of trying to maintain radical 00:24:29.740 --> 00:24:32.240 authenticity across different professional fields. 00:24:33.150 --> 00:24:35.490 Kwong's success, arguably, doesn't come from 00:24:35.490 --> 00:24:38.230 letting a law firm or ABC or anyone else define 00:24:38.230 --> 00:24:40.369 him. It seems to come from his relentless ability 00:24:40.369 --> 00:24:42.630 to define himself, even when that means sacrificing 00:24:42.630 --> 00:24:46.170 potential profit or widespread popularity. He 00:24:46.170 --> 00:24:48.170 sort of demonstrated that defining yourself might 00:24:48.170 --> 00:24:49.950 be the most valuable currency you have, but man, 00:24:50.009 --> 00:24:51.650 it comes with a really high price tag sometimes. 00:24:52.130 --> 00:24:54.410 And that cost, that's really our final provocative 00:24:54.410 --> 00:24:56.630 thought for you today. Think about the intense 00:24:56.630 --> 00:25:00.130 risk, but also the potential reward when a public 00:25:00.130 --> 00:25:02.660 figure chooses to expose the compromise. that 00:25:02.660 --> 00:25:05.799 often come with commercial success. From turning 00:25:05.799 --> 00:25:08.180 down the easy money of a network sitcom based 00:25:08.180 --> 00:25:10.839 on his life, to calling out a neighbor over, 00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:13.180 let's face it, a relatively minor infraction, 00:25:13.259 --> 00:25:16.480 but a principle he believed in. Kwong seems willing 00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:18.519 to put everything on the line to completely own 00:25:18.519 --> 00:25:21.220 his story. So what does it truly cost to maintain 00:25:21.220 --> 00:25:23.880 that level of uncompromising truth, especially 00:25:23.880 --> 00:25:26.250 when faced with the allure of mass appeal? And 00:25:26.250 --> 00:25:28.349 is that cost even sustainable over the long haul 00:25:28.349 --> 00:25:30.930 of a career? It's a huge question, and it really 00:25:30.930 --> 00:25:33.210 feels like it defines Eddie Kuang's entire blueprint.