WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.060 Welcome back to the Deep Dive. We are here ready 00:00:03.060 --> 00:00:06.660 to tackle this pretty massive stack of source 00:00:06.660 --> 00:00:09.179 material and really boil it down to the core 00:00:09.179 --> 00:00:11.339 insights for you. Yeah, we've got a lot to get 00:00:11.339 --> 00:00:13.699 through today. We do. We're charting the career 00:00:13.699 --> 00:00:16.879 of an American comedian, actor, host. I mean, 00:00:16.899 --> 00:00:19.620 someone who really embodies the idea of a global 00:00:19.620 --> 00:00:23.589 artist. tom rhodes rhodes is um he's a really 00:00:23.589 --> 00:00:26.230 fascinating study in how a career can evolve 00:00:26.230 --> 00:00:28.750 you're looking at four decades right yeah mid 00:00:28.750 --> 00:00:31.629 80s up to now exactly and it's just so varied 00:00:31.629 --> 00:00:34.829 stand up obviously but then scripted tv network 00:00:34.829 --> 00:00:37.869 hosting even uh proper travel writing but the 00:00:37.869 --> 00:00:40.810 thread connecting it all it's movement Constant 00:00:40.810 --> 00:00:43.310 movement. Absolutely. So the mission today really 00:00:43.310 --> 00:00:45.689 is to synthesize how he managed to take this 00:00:45.689 --> 00:00:48.369 this very specific high energy American stand 00:00:48.369 --> 00:00:49.969 up style. And we'll definitely dig into that. 00:00:50.030 --> 00:00:52.549 Yeah. And how he successfully translated that 00:00:52.549 --> 00:00:55.030 that sort of professional DNA onto all these 00:00:55.030 --> 00:00:57.509 different international stages. It's a deep dive 00:00:57.509 --> 00:01:01.090 into this comic born January 14th, 1967, who 00:01:01.090 --> 00:01:03.229 kind of decided. You know, the U .S. club scene, 00:01:03.429 --> 00:01:06.010 not big enough. Right. He needed the whole world. 00:01:06.049 --> 00:01:08.150 The whole planet as his stage, yeah. And that 00:01:08.150 --> 00:01:10.689 geographical reach, that's what really sets him 00:01:10.689 --> 00:01:12.549 apart, I think. When you look at where he's performed, 00:01:12.689 --> 00:01:16.310 it's way beyond the usual, you know, North American 00:01:16.310 --> 00:01:18.989 tour. Maybe a few dates in London or something. 00:01:19.590 --> 00:01:22.269 We're talking regular gigs in Hong Kong, Tokyo, 00:01:22.709 --> 00:01:26.510 London, Berlin, Sydney. Sure. But also places 00:01:26.510 --> 00:01:29.510 comedians don't always hit. like Basel, Geneva, 00:01:29.810 --> 00:01:33.170 Shanghai, Jakarta, Copenhagen. It's not just 00:01:33.170 --> 00:01:35.790 like occasional trips. His career seems built 00:01:35.790 --> 00:01:38.450 around being out there globally and being able 00:01:38.450 --> 00:01:40.849 to adapt professionally wherever he lands. And 00:01:40.849 --> 00:01:42.769 that adaptability, it must take a certain kind 00:01:42.769 --> 00:01:44.810 of drive. And you see that drive physically in 00:01:44.810 --> 00:01:47.390 his unique stage presence. Definitely. The pacing. 00:01:47.629 --> 00:01:49.689 Yeah, the pacing. But before we get to that, 00:01:49.769 --> 00:01:54.049 let's maybe... rewind a bit. Where did this relentless 00:01:54.049 --> 00:01:57.090 comedy thing, this motion, even start? What were 00:01:57.090 --> 00:01:59.689 the early influences? Okay, so the spark seems 00:01:59.689 --> 00:02:02.430 to be family -related initially. His uncle Bob 00:02:02.430 --> 00:02:05.530 performed locally in D .C. Uh -huh. But the real, 00:02:05.530 --> 00:02:07.370 like, lightning bolt moment, according to Rhodes, 00:02:07.489 --> 00:02:09.789 happened when he was just 12. His dad took him 00:02:09.789 --> 00:02:12.150 to a comedy club in D .C. to see his uncle. And 00:02:12.150 --> 00:02:14.409 the story here is just fantastic. The sources 00:02:14.409 --> 00:02:17.069 say he was just this kid sitting there wearing 00:02:17.069 --> 00:02:19.449 a Washington Redskins jacket. Right, just a kid. 00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:22.479 And another comedian on stage, probably looking 00:02:22.479 --> 00:02:25.719 for an easy laugh, spots him, pulls him up on 00:02:25.719 --> 00:02:27.919 stage. Yeah, what happened? And starts interviewing 00:02:27.919 --> 00:02:30.300 him like he's the actual football coach. Oh, 00:02:30.319 --> 00:02:33.139 wow. Talk about being thrown in the deep end. 00:02:33.280 --> 00:02:36.560 Exactly. And Rhodes says that moment, that sort 00:02:36.560 --> 00:02:40.080 of unexpected forced interaction on stage, that's 00:02:40.080 --> 00:02:42.000 when he just completely fell in love with stand 00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:44.259 -up. Instantly hooked. But it wasn't just the 00:02:44.259 --> 00:02:46.659 stage thrill, apparently. His home life played 00:02:46.659 --> 00:02:49.319 a big part, too. Specifically, his father, David 00:02:49.319 --> 00:02:52.180 B. Rhodes III. His father's background is, well, 00:02:52.240 --> 00:02:54.360 it's quite something. Decorated Vietnam War vet, 00:02:54.520 --> 00:02:57.360 right? A Huey helicopter pilot. Yeah, earned 00:02:57.360 --> 00:02:59.460 a Purple Heart, the Distinguished Flying Cross. 00:02:59.699 --> 00:03:02.080 Clearly someone who'd seen incredibly intense 00:03:02.080 --> 00:03:04.819 situations. Absolutely heroic stuff. And Tom 00:03:04.819 --> 00:03:06.979 Rhodes says this experience really shaped his 00:03:06.979 --> 00:03:09.460 dad's sense of humor. He apparently had this 00:03:09.460 --> 00:03:13.680 amazing ability to spin. horrific war stories 00:03:13.680 --> 00:03:15.900 into something funny. That's incredible to take 00:03:15.900 --> 00:03:18.360 something so dark and find humor. Right. That 00:03:18.360 --> 00:03:21.960 ability to process extreme stress or fear and 00:03:21.960 --> 00:03:24.620 turn it into comedy. You have to think that gave 00:03:24.620 --> 00:03:28.620 young Tom a kind of comedic resilience, maybe 00:03:28.620 --> 00:03:31.259 even that positive outlook he's known for, like 00:03:31.259 --> 00:03:33.240 a way to balance out the heavy stuff in life. 00:03:33.360 --> 00:03:35.000 That makes a lot of sense, actually. It gives 00:03:35.000 --> 00:03:38.300 context. But the real launch, career -wise, came 00:03:38.300 --> 00:03:41.259 from this almost unbelievable meeting with Jay 00:03:41.259 --> 00:03:44.560 Leno, purely because Rhodes was just so determined. 00:03:44.819 --> 00:03:47.259 Oh, it's pure hustle. Young kid hustle. He was 00:03:47.259 --> 00:03:49.500 underage, right? Couldn't legally get into the 00:03:49.500 --> 00:03:51.639 cheek -to -cheek jazz club in Winter Park, Florida, 00:03:51.740 --> 00:03:53.879 where Leno was playing. So what did he do? The 00:03:53.879 --> 00:03:56.180 source says he just waited outside, strategically, 00:03:56.259 --> 00:03:59.340 by the backstage door. When the opening act finally 00:03:59.340 --> 00:04:01.819 came out, he literally jammed his foot in the 00:04:01.819 --> 00:04:04.199 door. No way. Yep. And watched Leno's entire 00:04:04.199 --> 00:04:06.740 set through that tiny crack. That is some serious 00:04:06.740 --> 00:04:09.800 dedication. Or maybe just nerve. A bit of both, 00:04:09.860 --> 00:04:12.939 probably. But Leno was impressed, clearly. He 00:04:12.939 --> 00:04:14.560 brought him backstage after the show. And gave 00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:16.980 him that crucial advice. Yeah, the advice that 00:04:16.980 --> 00:04:19.439 basically shaped the next chunk of his life. 00:04:19.540 --> 00:04:21.240 If you're serious about comedy, you've got to 00:04:21.240 --> 00:04:23.139 be where the action is. You need to be in New 00:04:23.139 --> 00:04:25.879 York or L .A., hitting stages constantly. And 00:04:25.879 --> 00:04:28.079 Rhodes, he just went. Took it completely to heart, 00:04:28.360 --> 00:04:31.420 moved straight to New York. But the sources make 00:04:31.420 --> 00:04:33.860 it clear it wasn't instant success, not even 00:04:33.860 --> 00:04:36.220 close. Right, he called it. The worst year of 00:04:36.220 --> 00:04:38.839 his life. Living pretty much broke in Washington 00:04:38.839 --> 00:04:41.480 Heights, performing these grueling, low -paid 00:04:41.480 --> 00:04:43.480 one -nighters, mostly out in New Jersey or Long 00:04:43.480 --> 00:04:47.100 Island, just grinding. It sounds absolutely brutal, 00:04:47.220 --> 00:04:50.060 but he stuck with it. He did. It took time, but 00:04:50.060 --> 00:04:52.660 he finally landed a proper headlining gig. That 00:04:52.660 --> 00:04:54.779 was at the Punchline down near Atlanta. Okay, 00:04:54.819 --> 00:04:57.740 so that period, that constant grind, even when 00:04:57.740 --> 00:05:01.120 he had no money. It feels like it must connect 00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:03.860 to his physical style on stage, that kinetic 00:05:03.860 --> 00:05:06.439 energy. It really seems to. It's his absolute 00:05:06.439 --> 00:05:09.240 trademark, the constant pacing, the way he holds 00:05:09.240 --> 00:05:11.920 the mic kind of loose and wobbly. He called it 00:05:11.920 --> 00:05:14.319 a temple dance to honor the spirits of the universe. 00:05:14.889 --> 00:05:17.670 Which is quite a description. It is. But the 00:05:17.670 --> 00:05:20.889 actual origins seem much more practical, tactical 00:05:20.889 --> 00:05:23.329 even. Yeah. The sources break it down into three 00:05:23.329 --> 00:05:25.089 things, which I find fascinating. Yeah. It's 00:05:25.089 --> 00:05:27.790 not just nervous energy. It's planned. First, 00:05:28.009 --> 00:05:30.750 his boxing experience when he was 13. Exactly. 00:05:30.829 --> 00:05:32.790 Boxing teaches you constant movement. Right. 00:05:32.930 --> 00:05:35.209 Staying light on your feet, never being a static 00:05:35.209 --> 00:05:37.490 target. That translates perfectly to stand up. 00:05:37.529 --> 00:05:40.709 You need to react, shift, engage. And the second 00:05:40.709 --> 00:05:43.189 influence is kind of surprising. John McEnroe. 00:05:43.850 --> 00:05:47.370 The tennis player. Yeah. Specifically, McEnroe's 00:05:47.370 --> 00:05:51.110 advice to play the net. How does that apply to 00:05:51.110 --> 00:05:53.550 comedy? Well, think about it. Playing the net 00:05:53.550 --> 00:05:56.050 in tennis means being aggressive, close to the 00:05:56.050 --> 00:05:59.250 action, always ready, taking risks. Rhodes seems 00:05:59.250 --> 00:06:02.310 to apply that to the stage. Stay engaged. Stay 00:06:02.310 --> 00:06:04.670 close to the audience. Don't retreat. Own the 00:06:04.670 --> 00:06:07.769 space aggressively. OK, I see that. And the third 00:06:07.769 --> 00:06:10.269 piece, the let's say the most memorable piece 00:06:10.269 --> 00:06:14.160 of advice. Yeah. The advice from some early comic 00:06:14.160 --> 00:06:17.600 to shit in all four corners of the stage. Crude, 00:06:17.600 --> 00:06:20.000 but effective. Totally. It's the ultimate instruction 00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:22.120 for stage presence, right? Use the whole space. 00:06:22.279 --> 00:06:24.459 Move left, right, forward, back. Make the audience 00:06:24.459 --> 00:06:26.720 track you. Turn the stage into your arena, not 00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:30.259 just a spot you stand on. It makes so much sense 00:06:30.259 --> 00:06:33.720 now. And this idea, this philosophy of constant 00:06:33.720 --> 00:06:37.040 motion covering the whole area, you really see 00:06:37.040 --> 00:06:39.980 it play out in his career choices later. He even 00:06:39.980 --> 00:06:41.740 admits some people find the pacing annoying, 00:06:41.899 --> 00:06:44.439 but it's just part of him now. It's baked in. 00:06:44.500 --> 00:06:46.600 It's his performance language. And that high 00:06:46.600 --> 00:06:49.160 energy, that kinetic thing, that's exactly what 00:06:49.160 --> 00:06:51.759 made him pop when cable TV was starting up and 00:06:51.759 --> 00:06:53.639 Comedy Central was trying to figure itself out. 00:06:53.870 --> 00:06:56.350 Which brings us perfectly into the early 90s. 00:06:56.649 --> 00:06:59.009 Comedy Central's launching, they need fresh talent, 00:06:59.170 --> 00:07:02.550 and Rose gets this huge opportunity. Massive 00:07:02.550 --> 00:07:05.029 break. He'd been on their show, Two Drink Minimum, 00:07:05.029 --> 00:07:07.050 and off the back of that, they signed him. He 00:07:07.050 --> 00:07:08.930 was the first stand -up comic they signed to 00:07:08.930 --> 00:07:11.430 a one -year development deal. Wow, the first 00:07:11.430 --> 00:07:13.509 one. Yeah. He wasn't just a guest performer, 00:07:13.709 --> 00:07:15.769 he was one of the faces they were using to build 00:07:15.769 --> 00:07:18.129 the whole network's identity early on. And part 00:07:18.129 --> 00:07:21.449 of that was those iconic comedic rant commercials. 00:07:21.769 --> 00:07:25.069 Remember those? shot in a jail cell, edited like 00:07:25.069 --> 00:07:28.209 a music video. Oh, yeah. Very early 90s cable 00:07:28.209 --> 00:07:31.970 vibe. Very much in that Dennis Leary MTV rant 00:07:31.970 --> 00:07:35.810 style, you know. Quick cuts, cynical, fast -paced 00:07:35.810 --> 00:07:38.110 observations delivered from this kind of rebellious 00:07:38.110 --> 00:07:40.970 confinement. And that style clearly worked. It 00:07:40.970 --> 00:07:42.850 put them right in the mix, didn't it? Caused 00:07:42.850 --> 00:07:45.240 a bit of jealousy, apparently. Well, yeah. Mark 00:07:45.240 --> 00:07:48.319 Maron admitted later on his podcast, WTF, that 00:07:48.319 --> 00:07:50.759 he was super jealous of those commercials Rhodes 00:07:50.759 --> 00:07:53.660 was doing. Really? Maron? Yeah. Said he basically 00:07:53.660 --> 00:07:56.000 had to complain to the network to get his own 00:07:56.000 --> 00:07:58.779 similar kind of. image spot. That tells you how 00:07:58.779 --> 00:08:00.980 big a deal Rhodes was right then. He was setting 00:08:00.980 --> 00:08:03.860 the tone. He really was. And Rhodes himself looked 00:08:03.860 --> 00:08:06.319 back on that time really fondly, called it like 00:08:06.319 --> 00:08:08.639 being a junior filmmaker, said he could basically 00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:10.759 do whatever I wanted because the network was 00:08:10.759 --> 00:08:13.560 so new. This was before, you know, South Park 00:08:13.560 --> 00:08:15.579 or The Daily Show became these huge institutions 00:08:15.579 --> 00:08:18.839 with more rules. That creative freedom, it led 00:08:18.839 --> 00:08:20.899 him to do some really interesting kind of pioneering 00:08:20.899 --> 00:08:23.980 stuff like mixing travel and comedy with that 00:08:23.980 --> 00:08:26.899 show. Viva Vietnam, a white trash adventure tour. 00:08:27.290 --> 00:08:29.970 Yeah, that was a true docu comedy. He hosted 00:08:29.970 --> 00:08:32.690 and wrote it. And the concept was smart choosing 00:08:32.690 --> 00:08:35.129 Vietnam just as it was opening up to tourism. 00:08:35.309 --> 00:08:37.210 Plus the personal connection, right? His father's 00:08:37.210 --> 00:08:39.750 history there. Exactly. It let him bring his, 00:08:39.789 --> 00:08:42.149 you know, high energy, sometimes irreverent style 00:08:42.149 --> 00:08:45.070 to a place with incredibly serious history for 00:08:45.070 --> 00:08:47.990 his family and for America. He wanted to, quote, 00:08:48.129 --> 00:08:51.169 bring humor to something that was otherwise bleak 00:08:51.169 --> 00:08:53.090 in American history. Which goes right back to 00:08:53.090 --> 00:08:54.710 what you said about his father's way of storytelling. 00:08:55.159 --> 00:08:57.440 It really does. And the timing was pointed to 00:08:57.440 --> 00:09:00.100 aired in 1995, right on the 20th anniversary 00:09:00.100 --> 00:09:02.399 of the end of the war. It was bold. Yeah. And 00:09:02.399 --> 00:09:04.159 there was that one specific stunt they mentioned. 00:09:04.919 --> 00:09:07.940 The slip and slide. Yeah. Setting up a slip and 00:09:07.940 --> 00:09:11.080 slide on China Beach. That single image, that 00:09:11.080 --> 00:09:13.799 kind of gleeful physical silliness right on this 00:09:13.799 --> 00:09:16.120 historically loaded spot that perfectly captures 00:09:16.120 --> 00:09:18.460 what he was doing with that show. But then came 00:09:18.460 --> 00:09:21.000 the really big shift. moving from that kind of 00:09:21.000 --> 00:09:23.779 self -directed cable freedom into the big leagues, 00:09:23.860 --> 00:09:27.059 the network sitcom world. Mr. Rhodes on NBC, 00:09:27.379 --> 00:09:32.240 1996 -97 season. Huge leap, huge potential exposure. 00:09:32.340 --> 00:09:35.860 It ran for 19 episodes. But the reaction, it 00:09:35.860 --> 00:09:38.559 was really split, which kind of tells you how 00:09:38.559 --> 00:09:41.139 hard it is to translate a unique stand -up voice 00:09:41.139 --> 00:09:44.080 into that mainstream sitcom format. Right. People 00:09:44.080 --> 00:09:46.580 magazine loved it, gave it an A, called him a 00:09:46.580 --> 00:09:48.899 gifted stand -up comic, and the show a welcome 00:09:48.899 --> 00:09:51.799 back. caught her for the gentry high praise yeah 00:09:51.799 --> 00:09:55.220 they saw the potential but then the orlando sentinel 00:09:56.070 --> 00:09:58.409 Not so much. They really went after his acting, 00:09:58.529 --> 00:10:00.610 basically saying that energy, which worked so 00:10:00.610 --> 00:10:03.149 well live, felt, I don't know, maybe awkward 00:10:03.149 --> 00:10:05.649 or forced in a scripted show. And Rhodes himself 00:10:05.649 --> 00:10:07.629 felt the pressure, right? The sources say the 00:10:07.629 --> 00:10:09.850 constant network notes, the jokes about his long 00:10:09.850 --> 00:10:12.809 hair, not being able to focus on stand -up. It 00:10:12.809 --> 00:10:14.610 really started to wear on him. It's the classic 00:10:14.610 --> 00:10:16.889 trap for a comic, isn't it? The lure of network 00:10:16.889 --> 00:10:19.330 money and fame versus actually doing the thing 00:10:19.330 --> 00:10:21.029 you love, the stand -up. They were trying to 00:10:21.029 --> 00:10:22.710 sand off his edges. So what happened when it 00:10:22.710 --> 00:10:24.789 ended? What's really interesting is how he handled 00:10:24.789 --> 00:10:27.759 it. canceled he takes the money he made which 00:10:27.759 --> 00:10:29.720 must have been pretty decent moves back to new 00:10:29.720 --> 00:10:32.340 york and just throws himself back into stand 00:10:32.340 --> 00:10:35.940 -up and he called the money his nbc artist's 00:10:35.940 --> 00:10:39.230 grant Exactly. Which tells you everything about 00:10:39.230 --> 00:10:41.149 his priorities, doesn't it? Yeah, it really does. 00:10:41.350 --> 00:10:44.669 He saw the sitcom not as the end goal, but as 00:10:44.669 --> 00:10:48.009 a transaction, a way to buy himself time and 00:10:48.009 --> 00:10:50.429 freedom to do what he actually wanted to do. 00:10:50.590 --> 00:10:53.169 He used the money to get back his creative independence. 00:10:53.789 --> 00:10:55.990 That's thinking like an entrepreneur, not just 00:10:55.990 --> 00:10:58.110 a performer. And that freedom, that financial 00:10:58.110 --> 00:11:01.529 cushion, let him get back to his roots, led to 00:11:01.529 --> 00:11:04.350 two more Comedy Central present specials, 2001 00:11:04.350 --> 00:11:07.240 and 2009. Yeah. Filmed back at the Hudson Theater. 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:10.100 And even in the staging of those, you see his 00:11:10.100 --> 00:11:12.820 personality. How so? Well, for the first one, 00:11:12.879 --> 00:11:16.019 the backdrop was Leonardo da Vinci's study overlooking 00:11:16.019 --> 00:11:19.700 Florence. Kind of intellectual, arty hints of 00:11:19.700 --> 00:11:21.600 that smart camp idea way before the podcast. 00:11:21.840 --> 00:11:23.799 Okay. And the second one? For the second, the 00:11:23.799 --> 00:11:26.460 background was this cool image of all the world's 00:11:26.460 --> 00:11:28.759 great monuments kind of crammed together. And 00:11:28.759 --> 00:11:30.820 he made sure the Colossus of Rhodes was in there. 00:11:30.919 --> 00:11:33.179 Of course he did. And then he named his third 00:11:33.179 --> 00:11:36.350 comedy album Colossus of Me. It's all part of 00:11:36.350 --> 00:11:38.830 building his own sort of mythology through these 00:11:38.830 --> 00:11:41.450 visual jokes. That self -awareness, playing with 00:11:41.450 --> 00:11:45.529 his own image, it sets up the next big move perfectly. 00:11:45.870 --> 00:11:48.809 The one that really took his career global. The 00:11:48.809 --> 00:11:51.330 move to Europe, specifically the Netherlands. 00:11:51.549 --> 00:11:54.210 Right. This was a huge pivot. Initially, it was 00:11:54.210 --> 00:11:56.029 personal. He moved because of a relationship 00:11:56.029 --> 00:11:59.250 with a Dutch actress, Jack Pfeiffer. That relationship 00:11:59.250 --> 00:12:01.909 didn't last ultimately. But the career doors 00:12:01.909 --> 00:12:04.360 that opened for him in Amsterdam. They completely 00:12:04.360 --> 00:12:06.940 changed everything. He landed a pretty major 00:12:06.940 --> 00:12:09.279 gig almost right away, didn't he? Yeah. Hosting 00:12:09.279 --> 00:12:11.860 the Kevin Masters show starring Tom Rhodes. Yeah, 00:12:11.940 --> 00:12:14.419 on Dutch Jorin television. Hosted it for two 00:12:14.419 --> 00:12:17.700 years, 2002 to 2004. And the whole reason they 00:12:17.700 --> 00:12:19.840 wanted an American host was interesting. Why 00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:22.720 was that? The producers specifically wanted an 00:12:22.720 --> 00:12:25.179 outsider's view. Someone who could offer a fresh, 00:12:25.240 --> 00:12:27.480 maybe slightly irreverent perspective on Dutch 00:12:27.480 --> 00:12:29.879 culture, Dutch politics, everything. And the 00:12:29.879 --> 00:12:32.100 name Kevin Masters. That wasn't his idea. No. 00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:35.220 Kevin Masters was just this generic placeholder 00:12:35.220 --> 00:12:37.039 name they came up with before they even found 00:12:37.039 --> 00:12:39.279 a host. But by the time they picked Rhodes, the 00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:41.139 name had kind of stuck. So they just kept it. 00:12:41.279 --> 00:12:44.659 The Kevin Masters Show starring Tom Rhodes. Bit 00:12:44.659 --> 00:12:47.340 of a mouthful. That's pretty funny. So he became 00:12:47.340 --> 00:12:49.580 like their version of a late night talk show 00:12:49.580 --> 00:12:51.860 host. Pretty much. Kind of the Dutch Letterman 00:12:51.860 --> 00:12:54.639 or Conan interviewing local celebs, politicians, 00:12:54.919 --> 00:12:57.759 but also. Big American stars passing through 00:12:57.759 --> 00:12:59.600 Europe. But the key difference, the thing that 00:12:59.600 --> 00:13:01.480 must have been mind -blowing after dealing with 00:13:01.480 --> 00:13:04.740 NBC, was the lack of censorship, right? Oh, completely. 00:13:04.940 --> 00:13:07.559 The sources emphasized this huge difference in 00:13:07.559 --> 00:13:11.000 broadcast standards. On Dutch TV back then, virtually 00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:13.360 no censorship compared to the U .S. networks. 00:13:13.639 --> 00:13:15.419 It must have felt incredibly liberating after 00:13:15.419 --> 00:13:17.700 worrying about jokes about his hair. Totally. 00:13:17.779 --> 00:13:20.279 And the examples they give are just wild. Really 00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:22.080 show the contrast. Okay, give us the examples. 00:13:22.279 --> 00:13:24.370 Right. First one. He's interviewing with the 00:13:24.370 --> 00:13:26.769 band Tenacious D. They go to an Amsterdam coffee 00:13:26.769 --> 00:13:29.149 shop and they just openly smoke marijuana together 00:13:29.149 --> 00:13:31.970 on camera, live on air, just chatting about music. 00:13:32.149 --> 00:13:34.710 Wow. Okay. Try doing that on American Network 00:13:34.710 --> 00:13:38.009 TV. Exactly. Impossible. Second example. Steve 00:13:38.009 --> 00:13:41.330 -O from Jackass is a guest. Oh boy. I can guess 00:13:41.330 --> 00:13:43.850 where this is going. Yep. Steve -O proceeds to 00:13:43.850 --> 00:13:46.970 staple his own scrotum to his leg. On the show. 00:13:47.370 --> 00:13:51.610 Full uncensored nudity. Broadcast. Oh my god, 00:13:51.769 --> 00:13:53.990 that's something else. You just wouldn't, couldn't 00:13:53.990 --> 00:13:56.850 see that here. Never. So imagine going from network 00:13:56.850 --> 00:13:59.250 sitcom constraints to that level of freedom. 00:13:59.409 --> 00:14:02.320 It must have... completely validated his decision 00:14:02.320 --> 00:14:05.220 to move away from the US system. It showed him 00:14:05.220 --> 00:14:07.840 environments existed that valued, you know, authenticity 00:14:07.840 --> 00:14:10.820 and pushing boundaries, even if it got messy. 00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:13.080 And his American peers noticed. Yeah. The Dave 00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:14.960 Attell thing. Yeah. When Dave Attell brought 00:14:14.960 --> 00:14:17.720 his show, Insomniac, to Amsterdam, Rhodes was 00:14:17.720 --> 00:14:21.159 featured. And Attell had him represent the deadly 00:14:21.159 --> 00:14:24.039 sin of envy. Because Attell was jealous. Basically, 00:14:24.220 --> 00:14:26.580 yeah. Attell's whole thing was grinding it out, 00:14:26.600 --> 00:14:29.299 city after city, late nights in the U .S. And 00:14:29.299 --> 00:14:32.500 here's Rhodes with this, quote, cushy job in 00:14:32.500 --> 00:14:35.600 such a liberal town. The Dutch gig became the 00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:38.840 symbol of the ideal setup. Steady work plus total 00:14:38.840 --> 00:14:41.580 creative freedom. So when the Kevin Masters show 00:14:41.580 --> 00:14:44.179 ended after its run, he didn't just pack up and 00:14:44.179 --> 00:14:47.190 leave Europe. Nope. He leaned into it. Stayed 00:14:47.190 --> 00:14:48.929 with the same network, Joran, but shifted gears 00:14:48.929 --> 00:14:51.149 to host Joran Travel. Which makes perfect sense. 00:14:51.309 --> 00:14:53.169 It brings it full circle back to the Viva Vietnam 00:14:53.169 --> 00:14:56.570 idea, but now as a dedicated travel host. Exactly. 00:14:56.769 --> 00:14:58.809 It formalized that part of his identity and the 00:14:58.809 --> 00:15:00.669 places they sent him for just that one season. 00:15:01.519 --> 00:15:04.299 It shows the scale of it. Where did he go? The 00:15:04.299 --> 00:15:07.419 itinerary was intense, filming segments all over 00:15:07.419 --> 00:15:10.220 South America and Europe, places like Peru, the 00:15:10.220 --> 00:15:12.799 Champagne region in France, St. Petersburg in 00:15:12.799 --> 00:15:16.419 Russia, Wales, Aruba, even a special Beatles 00:15:16.419 --> 00:15:18.899 tour segment in Liverpool. He was officially 00:15:18.899 --> 00:15:21.639 the comedian as world traveler. That constant 00:15:21.639 --> 00:15:24.500 motion again, from pacing the stage to pacing 00:15:24.500 --> 00:15:27.179 the globe, which leads us naturally into the 00:15:27.179 --> 00:15:30.000 next phase, the 2010s and the rise of digital 00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:32.399 media. The podcast seems like the perfect fit 00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:34.480 for him. Absolutely perfect. He launched Tom 00:15:34.480 --> 00:15:37.379 Rhodes Smart Camp in 2011 on the All Things Comedy 00:15:37.379 --> 00:15:39.820 Network. And the name itself, Smart Camp, tells 00:15:39.820 --> 00:15:41.440 you it wasn't just going to be another comic 00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:43.240 interview and comic show. Right. He called it 00:15:43.240 --> 00:15:45.980 a festival of ideas, knowledge, stories, books, 00:15:46.120 --> 00:15:49.320 and adventures. Much broader. Yeah. Very intellectual 00:15:49.320 --> 00:15:51.940 framing. Segments like Smart Besties, Smart Ramble, 00:15:51.960 --> 00:15:54.600 Smart Books and Movies. He co -hosted it initially 00:15:54.600 --> 00:15:57.179 with Ash Narojan. Who he later married. Right. 00:15:57.279 --> 00:16:00.500 And the podcast really became this this hub for 00:16:00.500 --> 00:16:03.200 everything. It let him keep traveling, but stay 00:16:03.200 --> 00:16:05.879 connected. Talk to old friends from his early 00:16:05.879 --> 00:16:08.620 stand up days. People like Doug Stanhope, Brian 00:16:08.620 --> 00:16:10.879 Regan. Which is interesting, right? Because Rhodes 00:16:10.879 --> 00:16:14.720 has this super positive, upbeat vibe. Relentlessly 00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:17.399 positive. But he connects deeply with comics 00:16:17.399 --> 00:16:20.059 like Stanhope, who are known for being, well. 00:16:20.559 --> 00:16:23.139 pretty cynical or dark. It's a fascinating dynamic, 00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:25.899 but I think it speaks to how genuine his positivity 00:16:25.899 --> 00:16:29.200 is. Stanhope himself, Mr. Cynicism, just flat 00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:32.419 out said Rhodes is a very positive person, like 00:16:32.419 --> 00:16:35.000 no irony. And Jean Garofalo had a similar take. 00:16:35.259 --> 00:16:36.940 Yeah, she said something like his whole upbeat 00:16:36.940 --> 00:16:39.120 thing would normally annoy her, but with Rhodes, 00:16:39.220 --> 00:16:41.659 she enjoys it because it feels completely authentic. 00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:44.100 It's not an act. It's like his enthusiasm is 00:16:44.100 --> 00:16:46.500 so real, it kind of disarms the usual defenses 00:16:46.500 --> 00:16:48.840 people might have. Allows for different kinds 00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:50.769 of conversation. Exactly. Exactly. And that mixed 00:16:50.769 --> 00:16:54.409 the humor, the travel stories, the genuine curiosity 00:16:54.409 --> 00:16:57.509 about ideas and people. It got the podcast noticed. 00:16:57.970 --> 00:17:00.090 Matador Network called it one of the top podcasts 00:17:00.090 --> 00:17:02.330 of 2011. What do they like about it? They pointed 00:17:02.330 --> 00:17:04.630 out the humor, obviously, but also the really 00:17:04.630 --> 00:17:07.410 diverse guests, not just comics, but musicians, 00:17:07.630 --> 00:17:11.579 his family members, promoters. Just an eclectic 00:17:11.579 --> 00:17:13.900 mix. The only real critique was that the release 00:17:13.900 --> 00:17:16.220 schedule was sometimes sporadic. Which makes 00:17:16.220 --> 00:17:17.880 sense if you're constantly traveling the world. 00:17:18.019 --> 00:17:20.019 Totally understandable. And he used the podcast 00:17:20.019 --> 00:17:22.140 for really personal stuff, too, didn't he? Like 00:17:22.140 --> 00:17:24.359 the episode with his sister. Yeah, that's a key 00:17:24.359 --> 00:17:27.039 point. He recorded this incredibly moving episode 00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:29.720 with his younger sister, Laura, not long before 00:17:29.720 --> 00:17:32.480 she passed away. It shows how much he integrates 00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:35.140 his personal life right into his public professional 00:17:35.140 --> 00:17:38.279 work. No real separation. And alongside the podcast. 00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:41.400 He cemented that role, becoming a travel writer 00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:43.859 for the Huffington Post in 2011. Right, making 00:17:43.859 --> 00:17:46.799 it official, which fed directly into his long 00:17:46.799 --> 00:17:50.000 -term goal. The comedy travel TV show. the ultimate 00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:53.480 evolution of the Viva Vietnam idea. Exactly. 00:17:53.960 --> 00:17:56.099 Documenting his travels, but also specifically 00:17:56.099 --> 00:17:58.579 highlighting comedy scenes in different parts 00:17:58.579 --> 00:18:00.980 of the world. He'd actually already shot pilot 00:18:00.980 --> 00:18:04.099 episodes for that concept back in 2010 in places 00:18:04.099 --> 00:18:06.920 as different as Montana and Kuala Lumpur. Still 00:18:06.920 --> 00:18:09.799 chasing that synthesis of comedy and global exploration. 00:18:10.589 --> 00:18:12.990 And speaking of global exploration, we have to 00:18:12.990 --> 00:18:16.309 talk about the Elvis doll. Ah, yes, the Elvis 00:18:16.309 --> 00:18:19.670 mascot. It's such a perfectly weird Rhodesian 00:18:19.670 --> 00:18:22.309 ritual. He just carries this toy Elvis doll everywhere. 00:18:22.549 --> 00:18:24.490 Everywhere, and takes pictures of it. The source 00:18:24.490 --> 00:18:27.269 mentioned over 80 pictures of this Elvis doll 00:18:27.269 --> 00:18:29.630 in locations all around the world. Like where? 00:18:29.809 --> 00:18:31.990 Oh, all the big ones. Lincoln Memorial, Mount 00:18:31.990 --> 00:18:34.829 Rushmore, the Great Wall of China, Machu Picchu, 00:18:34.910 --> 00:18:37.529 Dubai, the Valley of the Temples in Sicily. Why 00:18:37.529 --> 00:18:40.089 Elvis, do you think? What's the joke there? Well, 00:18:40.170 --> 00:18:42.910 Elvis is maybe the ultimate symbol of exported 00:18:42.910 --> 00:18:45.390 American pop culture, right? So placing this 00:18:45.390 --> 00:18:48.289 little kind of kitschy icon of American fame 00:18:48.289 --> 00:18:51.690 in these huge monumental global settings, it's 00:18:51.690 --> 00:18:54.349 like a running commentary. It highlights how 00:18:54.349 --> 00:18:56.569 pervasive American culture is, but maybe also 00:18:56.569 --> 00:18:59.150 gently mocks the seriousness of tourism itself. 00:18:59.289 --> 00:19:01.690 It's a very meta travel gag. That fits him perfectly. 00:19:02.250 --> 00:19:04.670 Okay, as we start to pull all these threads together. 00:19:05.019 --> 00:19:06.980 We need to touch on the really deep personal 00:19:06.980 --> 00:19:09.119 events that shaped him, especially the losses, 00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:12.039 starting with his father's death. Yeah. David 00:19:12.039 --> 00:19:14.740 Dusty Rhodes III passed away in November 2009. 00:19:14.839 --> 00:19:18.140 He was 70. And it wasn't sudden. It was the result 00:19:18.140 --> 00:19:20.579 of injuries from a crash with a drunk driver 00:19:20.579 --> 00:19:23.099 three months earlier. That's awful. Bedridden 00:19:23.099 --> 00:19:25.259 with serious injuries. And multiple fractures, 00:19:25.259 --> 00:19:27.930 spinal injuries. It's a terrible way for anyone 00:19:27.930 --> 00:19:29.890 to go, let alone someone with his background. 00:19:30.130 --> 00:19:33.250 There's such a tragic irony there. This decorated 00:19:33.250 --> 00:19:35.470 war hero ultimately brought down by something 00:19:35.470 --> 00:19:38.529 so senseless, so random. And because of his military 00:19:38.529 --> 00:19:41.410 service, he received a full military funeral, 00:19:41.609 --> 00:19:44.069 buried at Arlington National Cemetery. Right. 00:19:44.190 --> 00:19:47.349 That contrast between the heroic life and the... 00:19:47.710 --> 00:19:50.609 frankly, mundane tragedy of his death. It adds 00:19:50.609 --> 00:19:52.869 another layer to that idea of finding humor in 00:19:52.869 --> 00:19:55.029 dark places, doesn't it? How do you process that 00:19:55.029 --> 00:19:58.130 kind of unfairness? It's profound. And then just 00:19:58.130 --> 00:20:00.490 a couple of years later, another huge loss, his 00:20:00.490 --> 00:20:02.930 younger sister, Laura Beth Rhodes Goldstein. 00:20:03.230 --> 00:20:05.529 Died from stage four breast cancer in April 2011. 00:20:05.750 --> 00:20:07.369 And this was the sister he seemed incredibly 00:20:07.369 --> 00:20:09.710 close to. The one who said on his podcast he 00:20:09.710 --> 00:20:11.390 was like the sister she never had because he 00:20:11.390 --> 00:20:14.230 gave such good life advice. That closeness led 00:20:14.230 --> 00:20:18.210 to that really intense, very public moment. The 00:20:18.210 --> 00:20:20.630 marriage at her bedside. Yeah. Because Laura 00:20:20.630 --> 00:20:22.509 had always wanted to see him get married. He 00:20:22.509 --> 00:20:25.430 and Ashna Rajan, his podcast co -host, actually 00:20:25.430 --> 00:20:28.019 got married right there. at Laura's bedside. 00:20:28.099 --> 00:20:30.720 He brought the wedding to her. Literally. And 00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:33.460 the source says, despite being so ill, Laura 00:20:33.460 --> 00:20:35.900 managed to clap and say congratulations. She 00:20:35.900 --> 00:20:39.220 passed away the very next day. Wow. That's just... 00:20:39.559 --> 00:20:43.180 An incredibly powerful story. Using his public 00:20:43.180 --> 00:20:45.819 platform, his marriage, to fulfill a dying wish. 00:20:46.059 --> 00:20:48.680 It shows that complete merging of his personal 00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:51.339 and professional life. Total vulnerability. And 00:20:51.339 --> 00:20:54.059 that marriage to Ashna lasted until 2018. They 00:20:54.059 --> 00:20:55.799 announced the divorce on the podcast too, right? 00:20:55.859 --> 00:20:58.400 With the same openness. An episode titled Our 00:20:58.400 --> 00:21:00.440 Last Day Together, where they talked about ending 00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:02.259 the marriage but remaining close friends, still 00:21:02.259 --> 00:21:05.809 loving each other. The podcast, Smart Camp. really 00:21:05.809 --> 00:21:07.930 became this living document of his whole life, 00:21:08.089 --> 00:21:10.789 the highs, the lows, the transitions. It's the 00:21:10.789 --> 00:21:12.930 ultimate commitment to that authenticity you 00:21:12.930 --> 00:21:15.109 mentioned earlier, using his voice to navigate 00:21:15.109 --> 00:21:17.150 everything good and bad. Absolutely. Okay, so 00:21:17.150 --> 00:21:19.009 let's synthesize. We've tracked Tom Rhodes from 00:21:19.009 --> 00:21:21.609 that hyperactive kid on stage, pacing like a 00:21:21.609 --> 00:21:24.710 boxer, through Comedy Central, the sitcom experiment, 00:21:25.289 --> 00:21:28.509 finding freedom in Dutch TV, and finally becoming 00:21:28.509 --> 00:21:32.869 this global comedian, writer, podcaster. What's 00:21:32.869 --> 00:21:34.950 the main takeaway? What's the legacy here? I 00:21:34.950 --> 00:21:37.450 think the legacy is really about That motion 00:21:37.450 --> 00:21:40.630 becoming the entire philosophy, that physical 00:21:40.630 --> 00:21:43.210 energy he needed on stage, the strategy to shoot 00:21:43.210 --> 00:21:45.650 in all four corners. It wasn't just about stand 00:21:45.650 --> 00:21:47.809 up. It became the way he ran his whole career. 00:21:48.230 --> 00:21:51.369 Constant aggressive movement, using the sitcom 00:21:51.369 --> 00:21:53.990 money to fund the next move, adapting his act 00:21:53.990 --> 00:21:55.650 for different countries, different languages, 00:21:55.789 --> 00:21:58.329 different media. And finally, landing on this 00:21:58.329 --> 00:22:01.089 perfect synthesis as a perpetual traveler, documenting 00:22:01.089 --> 00:22:03.710 it all. He essentially turned his stage persona 00:22:03.710 --> 00:22:06.599 into his entire life's operating system. The 00:22:06.599 --> 00:22:08.660 travel writing, the podcast, they let it be his 00:22:08.660 --> 00:22:11.420 own boss, constantly moving, constantly commenting, 00:22:11.559 --> 00:22:14.740 always on his own terms. Precisely. But there's 00:22:14.740 --> 00:22:16.819 one more layer, I think, that's crucial for the 00:22:16.819 --> 00:22:19.960 final picture. His philosophical leanings. We 00:22:19.960 --> 00:22:22.579 know he's the positive guy, but we shouldn't 00:22:22.579 --> 00:22:25.599 ignore his connections to some pretty serious 00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:28.319 social commentary. You mean his link to Sacred 00:22:28.319 --> 00:22:32.039 Cow Productions? Bill Hicks' company? That and 00:22:32.039 --> 00:22:34.220 his appearance in that documentary, American 00:22:34.220 --> 00:22:37.230 Drug War. The Last White Hope, where he specifically 00:22:37.230 --> 00:22:40.269 discussed drug laws in Amsterdam. OK, so Hicks, 00:22:40.349 --> 00:22:43.069 known for biting social critique and then discussing 00:22:43.069 --> 00:22:46.009 drug policy and freedom in the context of Amsterdam. 00:22:46.289 --> 00:22:48.450 Right. So you have this influence from Hicks 00:22:48.450 --> 00:22:50.829 who represented absolute freedom and truth telling 00:22:50.829 --> 00:22:53.430 and comedy. And then you have his lived experience 00:22:53.430 --> 00:22:55.710 in the Netherlands, a place where, as we saw, 00:22:55.809 --> 00:22:58.349 expression is radically uncensored compared to 00:22:58.349 --> 00:23:00.309 the U .S. He was immersed in that liberal environment. 00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:03.160 So he carries both that Hicks influence and that 00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:05.400 Dutch experience with him on his travels. Definitely. 00:23:05.400 --> 00:23:07.559 It's part of his toolkit, even if his delivery 00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:10.500 is generally upbeat. Which leads us to our final 00:23:10.500 --> 00:23:13.980 provocative thought for you, the listener. Consider 00:23:13.980 --> 00:23:17.240 this. Tom Rhodes is this relentlessly positive, 00:23:17.559 --> 00:23:20.599 globetrotting comedian. But how might that deep 00:23:20.599 --> 00:23:22.940 connection to a fierce social critic like Bill 00:23:22.940 --> 00:23:25.680 Hicks, combined with years soaking in the radically 00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:28.299 free media environment of the Netherlands, continue 00:23:28.299 --> 00:23:30.599 to shape the commentary that might be simmering 00:23:30.599 --> 00:23:33.069 just beneath that sunny surface? Yeah, as he 00:23:33.069 --> 00:23:34.970 keeps moving, keeps observing, keeps talking. 00:23:35.069 --> 00:23:37.789 It's that optimism, just his unique way of delivering 00:23:37.789 --> 00:23:39.890 potentially uncomfortable truths he picks up 00:23:39.890 --> 00:23:41.910 around the world. That tension between the bright 00:23:41.910 --> 00:23:44.329 persona and the potential for sharp insight drawn 00:23:44.329 --> 00:23:46.890 from Hicks and his global experience that feels 00:23:46.890 --> 00:23:50.109 like the ongoing, fascinating core of Tom Rhodes's 00:23:50.109 --> 00:23:50.349 journey.