WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.660 Okay, let's dive in. We are about to really unpack 00:00:03.660 --> 00:00:07.419 the work of a filmmaker who sees history, well, 00:00:07.519 --> 00:00:10.519 not as something finished, but as this like active 00:00:10.519 --> 00:00:13.539 force demanding our attention. We're focusing 00:00:13.539 --> 00:00:15.980 today on Raoul Peck. I mean, this is somebody 00:00:15.980 --> 00:00:18.039 who was a student in Berlin, drove a taxi in 00:00:18.039 --> 00:00:20.519 New York City, and served as Haiti's Minister 00:00:20.519 --> 00:00:23.059 of Culture. Yeah, all before creating some of 00:00:23.059 --> 00:00:25.800 the most powerful political films out there. 00:00:25.920 --> 00:00:28.109 It's quite the background. It absolutely is. 00:00:28.170 --> 00:00:30.210 And for anyone looking for, you know, a way into 00:00:30.210 --> 00:00:33.710 understanding the key figures in modern political 00:00:33.710 --> 00:00:36.310 cinema, Peck is essential. Our mission here is 00:00:36.310 --> 00:00:38.270 to pull together a pretty rich set of sources, 00:00:38.490 --> 00:00:41.189 sources covering his political life, which was 00:00:41.189 --> 00:00:43.210 very principled, his own production company, 00:00:43.409 --> 00:00:46.170 Velvet Film. And of course, these major works 00:00:46.170 --> 00:00:48.969 like Lumumba, I Am Not Your Negro, Exterminate 00:00:48.969 --> 00:00:51.210 All the Brutes. And the goal is to see how his 00:00:51.210 --> 00:00:54.829 own life story, which is so fragmented geographically. 00:00:54.909 --> 00:00:58.759 Haiti, Congo, Europe. the U .S. Exactly. How 00:00:58.759 --> 00:01:00.520 that doesn't just influence his art, but it's 00:01:00.520 --> 00:01:02.500 like the very fabric of it. Yeah, it is the raw 00:01:02.500 --> 00:01:04.980 material. It's built from that experience. And 00:01:04.980 --> 00:01:07.180 what comes through really clearly from the sources 00:01:07.180 --> 00:01:11.519 is that Peck is deeply politically engaged. He's 00:01:11.519 --> 00:01:13.299 just not interested in finding some sort of neutral 00:01:13.299 --> 00:01:16.459 middle ground. No, not at all. He uses history, 00:01:16.640 --> 00:01:20.700 politics, very personal memories to tackle these 00:01:20.700 --> 00:01:23.500 big societal problems. And he's always making 00:01:23.500 --> 00:01:26.219 that link, isn't he? connecting historical suffering 00:01:26.219 --> 00:01:28.739 to what's happening right now. So the key thing 00:01:28.739 --> 00:01:31.879 I think for you, the listener, to grasp right 00:01:31.879 --> 00:01:35.049 at the start is this. Peck's films are a direct 00:01:35.049 --> 00:01:37.069 challenge. They challenge the power structures 00:01:37.069 --> 00:01:39.409 that usually control who gets to tell the story. 00:01:39.510 --> 00:01:42.549 Because he lived under Duvalier in Haiti, he 00:01:42.549 --> 00:01:46.510 saw the fragility of post -colonial Congo firsthand, 00:01:46.890 --> 00:01:49.870 then studied capitalism in Europe. His work is 00:01:49.870 --> 00:01:52.090 designed to expose those connections between 00:01:52.090 --> 00:01:54.989 historical violence and how wealth is distributed 00:01:54.989 --> 00:01:57.010 today. So he's not just showing history, he's 00:01:57.010 --> 00:01:59.849 sort of... Arguing with it. Exactly. Arguing 00:01:59.849 --> 00:02:02.650 with it, using his own global life as the evidence. 00:02:02.750 --> 00:02:04.230 Okay, so let's start at the beginning then. Because 00:02:04.230 --> 00:02:06.670 to really get the global reach of his films, 00:02:06.730 --> 00:02:09.069 you also have to map out his life journey. Born 00:02:09.069 --> 00:02:12.969 in Port -au -Prince, Haiti, 1953. And his early 00:02:12.969 --> 00:02:15.409 life was just dominated by the political situation 00:02:15.409 --> 00:02:17.969 there. Totally shaped by it. The Duvalier dictatorship 00:02:17.969 --> 00:02:21.310 arrives. And when Peck is just eight years old, 00:02:21.370 --> 00:02:24.270 1961, his family flees. They had to get out. 00:02:24.409 --> 00:02:27.409 Yeah. But they didn't just go next door. They 00:02:27.409 --> 00:02:30.129 ended up joining his father in what was then 00:02:30.129 --> 00:02:33.629 Leopoldville, soon to be Kinshasa in the Congo, 00:02:33.810 --> 00:02:35.909 the DRC. Which had just gained independence. 00:02:36.270 --> 00:02:38.810 Lost a very volatile time. And this part is so 00:02:38.810 --> 00:02:41.650 crucial, often maybe skipped over. He wasn't 00:02:41.650 --> 00:02:44.560 just a Haitian kid in exile. He spent... 24 years 00:02:44.560 --> 00:02:47.520 growing up in the Congo. 24 years. Think about 00:02:47.520 --> 00:02:49.379 that. His father was an agronomist working for 00:02:49.379 --> 00:02:52.099 the U .N., the FAO, UNESCO. Part of that international 00:02:52.099 --> 00:02:54.560 effort after independence. Right. Teaching agriculture, 00:02:54.879 --> 00:02:57.020 helping set up infrastructure after the Belgians 00:02:57.020 --> 00:02:59.740 left so abruptly. So Peck is watching literally 00:02:59.740 --> 00:03:03.750 a nation try to build itself. And, well. struggling 00:03:03.750 --> 00:03:05.990 immensely in the process. He's immersed in it. 00:03:06.030 --> 00:03:08.629 His father's part of the UN mission, trying to 00:03:08.629 --> 00:03:11.789 build structures. His mother, Giselle, she worked 00:03:11.789 --> 00:03:14.590 as an aide, a secretary for mayors in Kinshasa 00:03:14.590 --> 00:03:17.689 for years. So he's seeing not just the culture, 00:03:17.729 --> 00:03:21.129 but the actual messy bureaucracy of a post -colonial 00:03:21.129 --> 00:03:23.530 state up close. You get this incredible tension 00:03:23.530 --> 00:03:26.409 then, the trauma of Haiti's dictatorship hanging 00:03:26.409 --> 00:03:28.789 over him. But he's living in Kinshasa, which 00:03:28.789 --> 00:03:32.590 was this hub, right? International aid, political... 00:03:32.620 --> 00:03:35.120 ideals floating around. Yeah, but also chaos. 00:03:35.500 --> 00:03:37.580 And this is just months after Patrice Lumumba 00:03:37.580 --> 00:03:40.340 was assassinated. That environment had to politicize 00:03:40.340 --> 00:03:42.199 him from day one. Oh, absolutely. It had to. 00:03:42.280 --> 00:03:44.979 And his journey didn't stop there. His education 00:03:44.979 --> 00:03:47.780 path is, well, surprisingly practical for someone 00:03:47.780 --> 00:03:50.439 who ends up an artist. Schools in Kinshasa, then 00:03:50.439 --> 00:03:52.919 Brooklyn. Brooklyn, New York. Then Orléans, France, 00:03:53.020 --> 00:03:55.419 before finally settling on his main studies. 00:03:55.659 --> 00:03:57.860 Which were, and this is fascinating, industrial 00:03:57.860 --> 00:04:00.520 engineering and economics at Humboldt University 00:04:00.520 --> 00:04:04.259 in Berlin. Wait. Economics. Before film school, 00:04:04.460 --> 00:04:06.300 he's studying the mechanics of industry, the 00:04:06.300 --> 00:04:08.840 flow of capital. Exactly. For someone with, you 00:04:08.840 --> 00:04:11.080 know, artistic dreams, as the sources put it, 00:04:11.099 --> 00:04:13.879 it seems like a detour. A massive one. But Peck 00:04:13.879 --> 00:04:17.600 saw that European structural education as vile. 00:04:18.220 --> 00:04:21.139 Non -negotiable. He actually said he had to educate 00:04:21.139 --> 00:04:23.439 himself as much as possible before he could even 00:04:23.439 --> 00:04:26.339 think about a film career back in Haiti or anywhere 00:04:26.339 --> 00:04:28.660 else. He needed the tools. The analytical framework. 00:04:28.920 --> 00:04:31.920 He needed economics to really pick apart the 00:04:31.920 --> 00:04:35.019 global systems he saw causing so much damage 00:04:35.019 --> 00:04:37.980 in Haiti in the DRC. That makes sense. He didn't 00:04:37.980 --> 00:04:39.720 just want to tell stories. He wanted to build 00:04:39.720 --> 00:04:43.209 a case. An evidenced argument. Precisely. Not 00:04:43.209 --> 00:04:45.689 a casual observer, but an informed critic, someone 00:04:45.689 --> 00:04:47.670 who understood the structures. Okay, so that 00:04:47.670 --> 00:04:50.009 rigorous background sets up his transition in 00:04:50.009 --> 00:04:52.649 the 80s, before he gets his film degree in 88 00:04:52.649 --> 00:04:55.889 from the DFFB in Berlin. The German Film and 00:04:55.889 --> 00:04:58.230 Television Academy. Right. He does some really 00:04:58.230 --> 00:05:00.410 practical kind of ground -level jobs. Yeah, like 00:05:00.410 --> 00:05:03.110 driving a taxi in New York City for a year. Which, 00:05:03.189 --> 00:05:05.629 after studying global economics in Berlin, must 00:05:05.629 --> 00:05:08.720 have been quite the experience. Talk about seeing 00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:12.560 theory meet reality. Poverty, racism, inequality 00:05:12.560 --> 00:05:15.439 right there in the rearview mirror. And he was 00:05:15.439 --> 00:05:17.439 also working as a journalist and a photographer 00:05:17.439 --> 00:05:21.279 from about 1980 to 85. Right. So taxi driver, 00:05:21.579 --> 00:05:25.240 journalist, photographer. These jobs put him 00:05:25.240 --> 00:05:28.139 right in contact with people, training his eye, 00:05:28.240 --> 00:05:31.439 you know, to see social reality directly. Practical 00:05:31.439 --> 00:05:33.699 extensions of his studies. And he secured his 00:05:33.699 --> 00:05:36.519 independence early. He founded his own production 00:05:36.519 --> 00:05:40.720 company, Velvet Film, in Germany in 1986 while 00:05:40.720 --> 00:05:43.100 still studying film. Still a student. That tells 00:05:43.100 --> 00:05:45.240 you everything about his intention. He knew he 00:05:45.240 --> 00:05:48.019 needed control. Yeah. And Velvet Film became 00:05:48.019 --> 00:05:51.000 the engine. It produced or co -produced pretty 00:05:51.000 --> 00:05:53.259 much everything he did afterwards. Docs, features, 00:05:53.519 --> 00:05:56.740 TV. He knew early on if you want to tell difficult 00:05:56.740 --> 00:05:59.279 stories, especially from a non -Western viewpoint, 00:05:59.639 --> 00:06:02.000 you can't rely on the established studios. You've 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:03.399 got to build it yourself. You have to build your 00:06:03.399 --> 00:06:04.920 own machine. And he didn't just build it for 00:06:04.920 --> 00:06:08.360 himself. He invested back home in Haiti. founding 00:06:08.360 --> 00:06:10.480 the Eldorado Forum in Port -au -Prince in 95. 00:06:10.819 --> 00:06:13.000 Right, specifically to help local Haitian artists, 00:06:13.180 --> 00:06:15.459 to support their creativity, give them resources. 00:06:15.939 --> 00:06:18.579 He's an infrastructure builder, trying to make 00:06:18.579 --> 00:06:20.720 sure the next generation had the local support 00:06:20.720 --> 00:06:22.879 he had to find internationally. And that sense 00:06:22.879 --> 00:06:25.360 of responsibility, building infrastructure, it 00:06:25.360 --> 00:06:27.959 leads directly into the next really unique phase 00:06:27.959 --> 00:06:30.300 of his life, when he actually stopped filming 00:06:30.300 --> 00:06:32.560 politics for a bit. And started doing politics. 00:06:32.779 --> 00:06:34.920 Exactly. Becoming Haiti's Minister of Culture, 00:06:35.060 --> 00:06:38.980 that's a major shift. March 96 to October 97, 00:06:39.139 --> 00:06:43.160 under Prime Minister Rosny Smarth. Short tenure. 00:06:43.550 --> 00:06:46.470 But wow. A very principled decision, you know, 00:06:46.470 --> 00:06:48.970 to step away from filmmaking and into the actual 00:06:48.970 --> 00:06:51.930 administration of this fragile nation trying 00:06:51.930 --> 00:06:54.310 to recover from dictatorship. But it didn't last 00:06:54.310 --> 00:06:57.129 long because his principles, it seems, were more 00:06:57.129 --> 00:06:59.329 important than staying in power. Completely. 00:06:59.389 --> 00:07:02.269 He resigned. Along with the prime minister and 00:07:02.269 --> 00:07:05.029 five other ministers, it was a direct protest 00:07:05.029 --> 00:07:07.990 against Presidents Prival and Aristide. Not a 00:07:07.990 --> 00:07:11.160 quiet exit. A clean break based on ethics. Yeah, 00:07:11.220 --> 00:07:12.720 he wasn't going to compromise on that. And it 00:07:12.720 --> 00:07:14.360 was such a defining moment. He wrote a whole 00:07:14.360 --> 00:07:17.019 book about it. Monsieur le ministre. Jusqu 'au 00:07:17.019 --> 00:07:19.540 bout de la patience. Mr. Minister. Yeah. To the 00:07:19.540 --> 00:07:22.110 end of patience. Right. And reviews of the book 00:07:22.110 --> 00:07:24.470 called it a portrait of a formidable democratic 00:07:24.470 --> 00:07:27.089 movement. He didn't just quit. He documented 00:07:27.089 --> 00:07:29.750 that struggle for real, uncorrupted democracy. 00:07:30.329 --> 00:07:32.589 And you can see that same uncompromising political 00:07:32.589 --> 00:07:35.050 drive in his very early films, even before he 00:07:35.050 --> 00:07:37.110 officially graduated film school. Oh, yeah. His 00:07:37.110 --> 00:07:40.689 first short in 1982, The Cuba Trago Encantar. 00:07:40.829 --> 00:07:43.290 It was about a Cuban music group visiting West 00:07:43.290 --> 00:07:46.189 Berlin for a peace concert. Political right away. 00:07:46.430 --> 00:07:50.350 Then lubed in 83, focusing on protests. during 00:07:50.350 --> 00:07:53.089 Reagan's visit to Berlin, directly engaging with 00:07:53.089 --> 00:07:55.470 Cold War tensions. And Merry Christmas, Deutschland 00:07:55.470 --> 00:07:59.060 in 84. A report about, like, history lessons 00:07:59.060 --> 00:08:01.500 taught on Christmas Day in Helmut Kohl's Germany. 00:08:01.660 --> 00:08:03.540 He was already finding politics in the everyday. 00:08:03.800 --> 00:08:06.639 Using concerts, street protests, even Christmas 00:08:06.639 --> 00:08:08.740 lessons to show the political currents underneath. 00:08:08.980 --> 00:08:11.620 That early work, that direct commentary, it really 00:08:11.620 --> 00:08:13.740 set him up for returning to Haitian themes in 00:08:13.740 --> 00:08:16.160 his features. His first feature film, Haitian 00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:19.300 Corner, 1987, shot while he was still a student. 00:08:19.500 --> 00:08:21.920 And it deals directly with the legacy of Duvalius 00:08:21.920 --> 00:08:24.519 Terror. Yeah, it follows a Haitian man in exile 00:08:24.519 --> 00:08:26.620 in New York. He'd been tortured by the Taunus 00:08:26.620 --> 00:08:29.939 Makuts. Duvalier's secret police. Notorious. 00:08:30.319 --> 00:08:32.700 Right, and the whole film hinges on this moment 00:08:32.700 --> 00:08:35.259 where he runs into his former torturer. Does 00:08:35.259 --> 00:08:38.639 he seek revenge or find a way to forgive? So 00:08:38.639 --> 00:08:41.159 not a simple revenge plot. It's about the moral 00:08:41.159 --> 00:08:43.899 weight of trauma. Exactly. Interrogating how 00:08:43.899 --> 00:08:46.519 that violence continues to define a survivor's 00:08:46.519 --> 00:08:50.750 life, even in exile. That became his style. Big 00:08:50.750 --> 00:08:52.789 political violence filtered through intimate 00:08:52.789 --> 00:08:55.529 moral choices. He followed that with The Man 00:08:55.529 --> 00:08:59.250 by the Shore in 1993, L 'Homme Siliqué. Which 00:08:59.250 --> 00:09:02.750 was huge, a fictional story, but it traces the 00:09:02.750 --> 00:09:05.190 very start of Duvalerism, the beginning of the 00:09:05.190 --> 00:09:07.850 terror, all seen through the eyes of an eight 00:09:07.850 --> 00:09:10.179 -year -old girl, Sarah. innocent eyes watching 00:09:10.179 --> 00:09:12.259 this darkness descend. And critically, this film 00:09:12.259 --> 00:09:14.220 was a big deal. Nominated for the Palme d 'Or 00:09:14.220 --> 00:09:16.860 at Cannes, that put him on the global map. And 00:09:16.860 --> 00:09:19.039 it was the first Haitian film released in U .S. 00:09:19.059 --> 00:09:21.580 theaters. Yeah, which was massive for representation. 00:09:21.940 --> 00:09:24.460 It showed that Haiti's complex, difficult history 00:09:24.460 --> 00:09:26.820 could actually reach a mainstream Western audience. 00:09:27.220 --> 00:09:30.100 So this mix of personal stories and sharp political 00:09:30.100 --> 00:09:33.039 insight started getting him recognition beyond 00:09:33.039 --> 00:09:36.360 festivals. Human Rights Watch gave him the Nestor 00:09:36.360 --> 00:09:39.110 Almendros Prize in 94. and the Irene Diamond 00:09:39.110 --> 00:09:42.129 Award in 2000. both for his human rights work 00:09:42.129 --> 00:09:44.929 through film. He established himself early as 00:09:44.929 --> 00:09:47.470 this really essential, uncompromising voice. 00:09:47.710 --> 00:09:49.929 And that uncompromising stance was about to be 00:09:49.929 --> 00:09:52.649 seriously tested when he decided to tackle the 00:09:52.649 --> 00:09:55.509 story of Patrice Lumumba. Oh, the Lumumba Project. 00:09:55.870 --> 00:09:57.929 Yeah, that's a perfect example of the kind of 00:09:57.929 --> 00:09:59.809 resistance he faced. The structural barriers 00:09:59.809 --> 00:10:02.409 in funding these kinds of stories. Totally. He 00:10:02.409 --> 00:10:04.789 really struggled at first to get a fiction film 00:10:04.789 --> 00:10:07.490 about Lumumba off the ground. Lumumba, you know, 00:10:07.509 --> 00:10:10.320 the father of Congo's independence. national 00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:12.240 hero but the money people weren't interested 00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:15.100 the investors mostly european and american they 00:10:15.100 --> 00:10:17.440 wanted a story centered on a european character 00:10:17.440 --> 00:10:20.340 the usual suspects the diplomat the journalist 00:10:20.340 --> 00:10:22.879 white witness someone relatable for the perceived 00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:25.730 audience Exactly. They wanted to make the history, 00:10:25.929 --> 00:10:28.850 you know, digestible, palatable. But Peck was 00:10:28.850 --> 00:10:32.330 absolutely set on telling it from Lumumba's perspective. 00:10:32.669 --> 00:10:36.309 A full, complex portrait of the Black hero. And 00:10:36.309 --> 00:10:38.870 refusing to compromise meant... Years of struggle, 00:10:38.990 --> 00:10:41.750 financial headaches. Many filmmakers just couldn't 00:10:41.750 --> 00:10:43.649 have sustained that fight. So how did he get 00:10:43.649 --> 00:10:45.990 around it? He took a different route first. He 00:10:45.990 --> 00:10:48.289 went personal, used his own background, his own 00:10:48.289 --> 00:10:51.450 production company, and made a documentary. Lumumba. 00:10:51.850 --> 00:10:54.909 Death of a prophet in 1991. Right. And he stressed 00:10:54.909 --> 00:10:58.009 how personal this was. He found old family photos, 00:10:58.269 --> 00:11:01.269 8mm films his own dad shot when they were living 00:11:01.269 --> 00:11:04.649 in the Congo during that exact period. Wow. So 00:11:04.649 --> 00:11:06.409 the documentary wasn't just history, it was... 00:11:06.620 --> 00:11:09.340 Reclaiming his own past, too. Yeah, it was grounding 00:11:09.340 --> 00:11:12.299 the story in his lived experience. He said the 00:11:12.299 --> 00:11:14.559 documentary and the later feature film were really 00:11:14.559 --> 00:11:16.840 two different things for him. The doc being about 00:11:16.840 --> 00:11:19.220 his personal connection to the Congo. And making 00:11:19.220 --> 00:11:21.679 the documentary first maybe helped build the 00:11:21.679 --> 00:11:24.080 case for the feature. It absolutely provided 00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:26.659 the groundwork, the credibility. So then finally, 00:11:26.840 --> 00:11:29.820 in 2000, he could make the feature film Lumumba, 00:11:29.960 --> 00:11:32.179 designed to be more accessible, telling that 00:11:32.179 --> 00:11:34.559 pivotal story around Congolese independence in 00:11:34.559 --> 00:11:37.830 1960. And the sources say it unveiled unwritten 00:11:37.830 --> 00:11:41.070 controversial history. History often swept under 00:11:41.070 --> 00:11:43.210 the rug in Western accounts. Definitely. And 00:11:43.210 --> 00:11:46.549 it worked. Won Best Feature at two big African 00:11:46.549 --> 00:11:49.350 film festivals. Got great reviews. It was the 00:11:49.350 --> 00:11:51.929 full -on confrontation with Lumumba's story that 00:11:51.929 --> 00:11:54.269 he'd wanted all along. The success of Lumumba 00:11:54.269 --> 00:11:56.730 must have opened some doors. It led to an HBO 00:11:56.730 --> 00:11:59.090 commission, right? Tackling another huge African 00:11:59.090 --> 00:12:01.970 tragedy. Yeah, the Rwandan genocide. In 2005, 00:12:02.169 --> 00:12:05.379 HBO commissioned... Sometimes in April. An English 00:12:05.379 --> 00:12:08.379 language TV movie starring Idris Elba focusing 00:12:08.379 --> 00:12:11.840 on the 1994 massacre. 800 ,000 people killed. 00:12:12.409 --> 00:12:14.590 That's taking on an incredibly heavy, sensitive 00:12:14.590 --> 00:12:17.909 subject with a major American studio. Huge. And 00:12:17.909 --> 00:12:19.990 this is where Peck's insistence on ethical filmmaking 00:12:19.990 --> 00:12:22.830 really came to the fore. He laid down conditions 00:12:22.830 --> 00:12:25.149 to HBO that he later said were basically unacceptable 00:12:25.149 --> 00:12:27.149 by industry standards. Okay, what were these 00:12:27.149 --> 00:12:29.970 demands? First, the story had to be told entirely 00:12:29.970 --> 00:12:32.669 from the Rwandan point of view. No Western character 00:12:32.669 --> 00:12:35.889 as the audience's way in. Right. Second, he insisted 00:12:35.889 --> 00:12:38.830 on shooting the entire film in Rwanda. On location, 00:12:39.110 --> 00:12:41.960 where the genocide happened. That must have been 00:12:41.960 --> 00:12:44.679 incredibly difficult logistically, emotionally. 00:12:45.039 --> 00:12:48.179 Immense challenges. Security, insurance, the 00:12:48.179 --> 00:12:50.679 sensitivity of filming recent trauma on site. 00:12:50.779 --> 00:12:54.320 But he wouldn't budge. And HBO. Agreed. Amazingly, 00:12:54.320 --> 00:12:57.799 yeah. They accepted all his conditions. His commitment 00:12:57.799 --> 00:13:00.399 to getting it right was intense. He studied reports, 00:13:00.740 --> 00:13:04.759 testimonies. He said every single line is authentic 00:13:04.759 --> 00:13:08.000 and based on facts. Not historical fiction. But 00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:10.500 dramatized fact. Exactly. And the premiere itself 00:13:10.500 --> 00:13:12.789 showed that commitment. It wasn't in L .A. or 00:13:12.789 --> 00:13:14.710 New York. The Rwandan people saw it first in 00:13:14.710 --> 00:13:17.029 the arena in Kigali. You prioritize the community 00:13:17.029 --> 00:13:19.470 affected. Above everything else. And that dedication 00:13:19.470 --> 00:13:21.769 was recognized. It won TV program of the year 00:13:21.769 --> 00:13:24.330 at the AFI Awards, best film at Durban. It proved 00:13:24.330 --> 00:13:26.529 that sticking to your principles, demanding authenticity 00:13:26.529 --> 00:13:29.169 doesn't kill a project. It can make it more powerful. 00:13:29.529 --> 00:13:32.029 So after these deep dives into African history, 00:13:32.590 --> 00:13:35.870 Peck takes that same rigorous, non -compromising 00:13:35.870 --> 00:13:38.909 approach and turns it towards these big global 00:13:38.909 --> 00:13:42.460 ideologies, starting with race. in America. Which 00:13:42.460 --> 00:13:44.720 leads us to, I mean, what has to be one of the 00:13:44.720 --> 00:13:46.860 most important documentaries of the last decade, 00:13:47.080 --> 00:13:50.259 I Am Not Your Negro from 2016. Based on James 00:13:50.259 --> 00:13:52.360 Baldwin's unfinished book, Remember This House. 00:13:52.620 --> 00:13:55.480 Right. Baldwin's project was going to be about 00:13:55.480 --> 00:13:58.440 his friends, Martin Luther King Jr., Malcolm 00:13:58.440 --> 00:14:01.200 X, Medgar Evers, their lives, their assassinations. 00:14:01.500 --> 00:14:04.000 And just getting the rights took Peck. How long? 00:14:04.120 --> 00:14:06.799 About 10 years. Just to get permission to use 00:14:06.799 --> 00:14:09.360 Baldwin's estate, his letters, his words. Think 00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:11.580 about that dedication. Incredible patience. And 00:14:11.580 --> 00:14:13.840 the film itself, narrated by Samuel L. Jackson, 00:14:14.039 --> 00:14:16.899 it's just masterfully constructed. It uses Baldwin's 00:14:16.899 --> 00:14:19.919 actual words from letters, speeches, the manuscript 00:14:19.919 --> 00:14:22.860 woven with archival footage. It charts the history 00:14:22.860 --> 00:14:25.379 of racism, the constant oppression of black Americans. 00:14:25.679 --> 00:14:27.519 And the genius is using Baldwin's unfinished 00:14:27.519 --> 00:14:29.799 work to say that this history is also unfinished. 00:14:30.139 --> 00:14:33.240 Right. Exactly. It connects the 1960s. footage 00:14:33.240 --> 00:14:36.259 directly to images from today, showing how Baldwin's 00:14:36.259 --> 00:14:38.860 insights are just timeless, tragically relevant. 00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:41.899 The critical response was huge. Universal acclaim, 00:14:41.980 --> 00:14:45.840 like 99 % on Rotten Tomatoes, 96 on Metacritic, 00:14:45.860 --> 00:14:48.940 Oscar nomination, won the Caesar, won an Emmy. 00:14:49.120 --> 00:14:51.600 It really changed the game for how documentaries 00:14:51.600 --> 00:14:54.899 can use archival, material, and powerful language 00:14:54.899 --> 00:14:58.000 to interrogate history and power. But Pick doesn't 00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:01.480 just stay on one topic. The very next year, 2017, 00:15:01.799 --> 00:15:04.740 he pivots again intellectually. He makes the 00:15:04.740 --> 00:15:06.940 young Karl Marx. Yeah, from Baldwin and American 00:15:06.940 --> 00:15:09.320 race relations to the origins of the Communist 00:15:09.320 --> 00:15:12.019 Manifesto, it seems like a big leap. But is it? 00:15:12.159 --> 00:15:14.039 Well, the common thread is still there, isn't 00:15:14.039 --> 00:15:16.019 it? Understanding how systems of power are built, 00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:19.019 how exploitation gets theorized, justified. And 00:15:19.019 --> 00:15:20.980 Peck himself said Marx was huge for him during 00:15:20.980 --> 00:15:23.179 his own education in Berlin back in the 70s and 00:15:23.179 --> 00:15:25.500 80s. Right. He said understanding Marx's analysis 00:15:25.500 --> 00:15:28.059 was key to confronting the past and the present. 00:15:28.120 --> 00:15:30.649 It connects back to his economics degree. But 00:15:30.649 --> 00:15:34.070 filming the evolution of an idea, that sounds 00:15:34.070 --> 00:15:36.350 tough. He said it was the hardest script he ever 00:15:36.350 --> 00:15:39.049 worked on. Took 10 years with his screenwriter, 00:15:39.230 --> 00:15:42.360 Pascal Bonitzer. How do you make the development 00:15:42.360 --> 00:15:45.340 of political thought dramatic, cinematic, without 00:15:45.340 --> 00:15:47.799 dumbing it down? Yeah, that's a challenge. And 00:15:47.799 --> 00:15:49.600 the film makes a point of including the collaborators 00:15:49.600 --> 00:15:52.500 often left out of the story. Jenny Marks, Carl's 00:15:52.500 --> 00:15:55.159 wife, helping with the manifesto draft. Mary 00:15:55.159 --> 00:15:58.279 Burns, Engel's partner, mediating their debates, 00:15:58.419 --> 00:16:01.419 showing the whole intellectual ecosystem. That 00:16:01.419 --> 00:16:03.460 structural critique then expands even further 00:16:03.460 --> 00:16:07.039 in 2021 with the HBO series Exterminate All the 00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:10.679 Brutes. A huge four -part documentary, won a 00:16:10.679 --> 00:16:13.179 Peabody Award. And this one really digs into 00:16:13.179 --> 00:16:16.419 the genocidal core of European colonialism. And 00:16:16.419 --> 00:16:19.039 he's synthesizing multiple major academic works 00:16:19.039 --> 00:16:21.059 here. Yeah, it's not just one source. He pulls 00:16:21.059 --> 00:16:23.639 from Sven Lindquist's book Exterminate All the 00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:26.519 Brutes, Roxanne Dunbar -Ortiz's An Indigenous 00:16:26.519 --> 00:16:29.120 People's History of the United States, and Michelle 00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:32.259 Rolfe Trio's crucial work, Silencing the past. 00:16:32.440 --> 00:16:35.139 It's a scholarly foundation for a powerful argument. 00:16:35.340 --> 00:16:38.500 And Peck narrates it himself, making it very 00:16:38.500 --> 00:16:41.279 direct. His argument is intentionally provocative. 00:16:41.639 --> 00:16:44.840 That white supremacy and the impulse to eliminate 00:16:44.840 --> 00:16:47.440 the other weren't side effects of colonialism. 00:16:47.580 --> 00:16:50.559 They were central to it. The ideological engine. 00:16:50.820 --> 00:16:53.240 Leading to global exterminations. Exactly. He 00:16:53.240 --> 00:16:56.399 calls it a story of survival and violence. Using 00:16:56.399 --> 00:16:59.039 archival footage, new material, even animation 00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:01.759 to depict things that couldn't be filmed. This 00:17:01.759 --> 00:17:04.500 series feels like his most explicit statement 00:17:04.500 --> 00:17:07.119 of philosophy. Yeah. That line from the trailer, 00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:10.380 neutrality is not an option. The past has a future 00:17:10.380 --> 00:17:12.640 we never expect. That really sums up his whole 00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:14.859 approach, doesn't it? History isn't dead. It's 00:17:14.859 --> 00:17:17.259 active. It shapes our future. And we should connect 00:17:17.259 --> 00:17:19.240 this back to his early studies, too, the economics. 00:17:19.519 --> 00:17:22.019 His critique isn't just political, it's financial. 00:17:22.220 --> 00:17:25.200 Definitely. Back in 2001, he did a film for Arte 00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:27.539 called Profit and Nothing But, part of a series 00:17:27.539 --> 00:17:29.799 called La Bourse et la Vie. The Stock Market 00:17:29.799 --> 00:17:32.660 and Life. Right. And his film focused specifically 00:17:32.660 --> 00:17:35.220 on the devastating impact of predatory capitalism 00:17:35.220 --> 00:17:38.009 on his home country, Haiti. So it all connects. 00:17:38.150 --> 00:17:40.829 The trauma in Haiti, the struggles in Congo, 00:17:41.009 --> 00:17:43.529 the critique of race in America, the roots of 00:17:43.529 --> 00:17:46.809 Marxism, the violence of colonialism. It's all 00:17:46.809 --> 00:17:49.630 part of one big analysis of global power structures. 00:17:49.849 --> 00:17:52.930 It's one continuous, interconnected argument 00:17:52.930 --> 00:17:56.089 unfolding across his entire career. Okay. So 00:17:56.089 --> 00:17:58.309 we've talked a lot about the content, the politics. 00:17:58.490 --> 00:18:00.650 Right. But how does he actually do it? Yes. How 00:18:00.650 --> 00:18:03.170 does he weave all these complex threads? History, 00:18:03.450 --> 00:18:07.849 politics, personal memory. into films that aren't 00:18:07.849 --> 00:18:10.930 just academic essays. Yeah. The how is key. It's 00:18:10.930 --> 00:18:13.269 his style. The sources point out that his films 00:18:13.269 --> 00:18:15.650 often use the polish and like the structural 00:18:15.650 --> 00:18:18.130 effectiveness of American cinema. They look good. 00:18:18.150 --> 00:18:19.809 They're well paced. Right. They draw you in. 00:18:19.910 --> 00:18:22.230 But then he combines that accessibility with 00:18:22.230 --> 00:18:25.329 these really complex, nonlinear techniques. Like 00:18:25.329 --> 00:18:27.809 a collage, you said. Exactly. He breaks up the 00:18:27.809 --> 00:18:30.910 timeline, uses flashbacks, flash forwards, what 00:18:30.910 --> 00:18:33.250 the sources call time overlay. So history feels 00:18:33.250 --> 00:18:35.490 like it's happening right now, bleeding into 00:18:35.490 --> 00:18:37.769 the present. Showing the legacy directly. And 00:18:37.769 --> 00:18:40.089 the voiceover is crucial, too. It's always shifting. 00:18:40.230 --> 00:18:42.730 Sometimes it's Peck himself, like in Exterminate. 00:18:42.769 --> 00:18:45.529 Sometimes it's Baldwin's words in I Am Not Your 00:18:45.529 --> 00:18:48.589 Negro. Sometimes it's another character or observer. 00:18:48.890 --> 00:18:51.450 So it's never just one single authoritative voice 00:18:51.450 --> 00:18:54.849 telling you what to think. Right. That multiplicity 00:18:54.849 --> 00:18:57.710 avoids it becoming a lecture. It's this mixed 00:18:57.710 --> 00:19:01.170 documentary footage. Animation, different voices, 00:19:01.490 --> 00:19:04.250 fractured timelines that allows him to blend 00:19:04.250 --> 00:19:07.690 the politics, the history, the poetry and the 00:19:07.690 --> 00:19:10.650 deeply personal stuff organically. They're not 00:19:10.650 --> 00:19:12.450 just watching. You're kind of piecing it together 00:19:12.450 --> 00:19:15.089 with him. You're actively participating in understanding 00:19:15.089 --> 00:19:18.029 this fragmented reality. And this whole complex 00:19:18.029 --> 00:19:20.690 style serves a very clear purpose. He's been 00:19:20.690 --> 00:19:23.309 blunt about it. Yeah. He's not primarily aiming 00:19:23.309 --> 00:19:25.390 for entertainment. Not at all. He said he got 00:19:25.390 --> 00:19:28.029 into film. Because of politics, because of content, 00:19:28.170 --> 00:19:29.809 not because I wanted to make Hollywood films. 00:19:29.849 --> 00:19:31.230 Which is pretty different from a lot of the film 00:19:31.230 --> 00:19:33.349 industry. Yeah, he contracts his approach with 00:19:33.349 --> 00:19:36.109 American cinema, which he says often claims that 00:19:36.109 --> 00:19:39.289 its purpose is entertainment and aims to please 00:19:39.289 --> 00:19:42.349 the audience, not so much to provoke. Peck wants 00:19:42.349 --> 00:19:44.890 to provoke. He wants to change how you see history, 00:19:45.049 --> 00:19:47.170 make you feel the cost of it, and crucially, 00:19:47.230 --> 00:19:50.269 provoke a reaction, make you think critically. 00:19:50.529 --> 00:19:53.269 That kind of intellectual filmmaking demands 00:19:53.269 --> 00:19:57.720 really intense work. and the writing stage. He's 00:19:57.720 --> 00:19:59.799 talked about how hard that is. Finding a writing 00:19:59.799 --> 00:20:04.119 partner who gets it, who shares that philosophical 00:20:04.119 --> 00:20:07.039 or political grounding, he said it's incredibly 00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:09.099 difficult. Which makes his long collaboration 00:20:09.099 --> 00:20:12.099 with Pascal Bonitzer on The Young Karl Marx even 00:20:12.099 --> 00:20:14.599 more significant. Ten years. They needed that 00:20:14.599 --> 00:20:17.500 time and that shared understanding to turn dense 00:20:17.500 --> 00:20:20.299 theory into something dramatic and watchable. 00:20:20.809 --> 00:20:22.609 And he continues these kinds of deep collaborations. 00:20:22.849 --> 00:20:25.029 He's mentioned ongoing projects with the writer 00:20:25.029 --> 00:20:26.750 Russell Banks. Who's a major figure himself. 00:20:27.109 --> 00:20:29.089 Banks even wrote the preface for Peck's book 00:20:29.089 --> 00:20:31.329 about his time as minister of culture. That shows 00:20:31.329 --> 00:20:33.710 a deep intellectual trust. Choosing partners 00:20:33.710 --> 00:20:36.210 who share that uncompromising political lens. 00:20:36.509 --> 00:20:38.569 Absolutely. And Peck, I mean, he's still incredibly 00:20:38.569 --> 00:20:40.589 productive after decades in the business. His 00:20:40.589 --> 00:20:43.210 recent work keeps hitting these core themes. 00:20:43.490 --> 00:20:45.910 Like Silver Dollar Road last year for Amazon. 00:20:46.329 --> 00:20:48.670 About a black family fighting developers trying 00:20:48.670 --> 00:20:51.019 to take their land. Right back to that intersection 00:20:51.019 --> 00:20:54.180 of race, land and capitalist pressure, the personal 00:20:54.180 --> 00:20:57.240 impact of systemic forces. And just this year, 00:20:57.279 --> 00:21:01.519 2024, he premiered Ernest Cole, Lost and Found 00:21:01.519 --> 00:21:04.099 at Cannes, about the South African photographer. 00:21:04.670 --> 00:21:06.829 Bringing him back to Southern Africa, back to 00:21:06.829 --> 00:21:09.109 post -colonial critique through the lens of art 00:21:09.109 --> 00:21:11.769 and resistance. And he's got two huge documentary 00:21:11.769 --> 00:21:14.529 projects in the works right now, both incredibly 00:21:14.529 --> 00:21:17.190 timely and political. The first is about the 00:21:17.190 --> 00:21:19.589 assassination of Haitian President Jovenel Morsi 00:21:19.589 --> 00:21:22.089 in 2021. Which brings him right back to Haiti. 00:21:22.289 --> 00:21:24.970 It's instability, the questions of power and 00:21:24.970 --> 00:21:27.190 interference there. Full circle. And the second 00:21:27.190 --> 00:21:30.490 one, which is maybe the most intriguing philosophically. 00:21:31.230 --> 00:21:33.890 is Orwell, a documentary about George Orwell 00:21:33.890 --> 00:21:37.750 for Neon. Orwell. Given Peck's focus on power, 00:21:37.910 --> 00:21:41.390 truth, history, surveillance, applying his style 00:21:41.390 --> 00:21:44.190 to Orwell seems potentially explosive. Yeah, 00:21:44.210 --> 00:21:46.450 imagining Peck's collage technique tackling the 00:21:46.450 --> 00:21:50.049 author of 1984, it promises a really potent look 00:21:50.049 --> 00:21:52.630 at modern authoritarianism, information control. 00:21:52.849 --> 00:21:54.309 Okay, so let's try to pull this all together. 00:21:54.430 --> 00:21:56.009 If we synthesize everything we've looked at, 00:21:56.109 --> 00:21:58.210 what's the main thread in Raoul Peck's career? 00:21:58.589 --> 00:22:01.069 I think the core, the constant is this unwavering 00:22:01.069 --> 00:22:04.089 commitment to telling history from the perspective 00:22:04.089 --> 00:22:06.329 of those who usually don't get to tell it. The 00:22:06.329 --> 00:22:09.009 oppressed, the marginalized. He's like a guide. 00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:12.019 Using film to force us to confront uncomfortable 00:22:12.019 --> 00:22:15.180 truths. Absolutely. Using nonlinear stories, 00:22:15.380 --> 00:22:17.799 archival evidence, his own personal history to 00:22:17.799 --> 00:22:20.279 just shatter our easy assumptions about how the 00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:22.920 world works. And for you, the listener, his films 00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:25.740 are this incredibly direct, deeply researched 00:22:25.740 --> 00:22:28.180 way into understanding some of the most critical 00:22:28.180 --> 00:22:30.099 moments and issues in modern global history. 00:22:30.299 --> 00:22:33.140 Yeah. Whether it's Rwanda or Haiti under Duvalier 00:22:33.140 --> 00:22:36.359 or race in America through Baldwin or even the 00:22:36.359 --> 00:22:38.759 ideas of Karl Marx, he's always digging for the. 00:22:38.799 --> 00:22:41.579 why. Why are things structured the way they are? 00:22:41.700 --> 00:22:44.059 And it's often not comfortable to look at. He 00:22:44.059 --> 00:22:46.440 makes it very clear with his statement. Neutrality 00:22:46.440 --> 00:22:48.980 is not an option, especially when dealing with 00:22:48.980 --> 00:22:51.880 systemic problems. Exactly. Which brings us to 00:22:51.880 --> 00:22:53.859 that final thought. He's now turning his attention 00:22:53.859 --> 00:22:57.759 to George Orwell, the ultimate writer about totalitarianism, 00:22:57.799 --> 00:23:00.720 surveillance, the manipulation of truth. So the 00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:04.180 question becomes, how will Peck with his unique 00:23:04.180 --> 00:23:06.859 style and his fierce commitment to exposing power, 00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:10.400 interpret Orwell for our time. What new parallels 00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:12.579 might he draw between the dangers Orwell warned 00:23:12.579 --> 00:23:15.019 about and, say, the systems of global capitalism 00:23:15.019 --> 00:23:17.319 or digital surveillance today, that Orwell film? 00:23:17.819 --> 00:23:19.799 It feels like it could be a major statement about 00:23:19.799 --> 00:23:22.359 the future Pexies is heading towards. What history 00:23:22.359 --> 00:23:23.660 is he going to force us to confront next?