WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.060 Welcome to the deep dive. Today we're cutting 00:00:03.060 --> 00:00:06.179 through the noise surrounding a figure who is 00:00:06.179 --> 00:00:09.660 somehow both this like niche alternative comedy 00:00:09.660 --> 00:00:12.220 legend and one of the most recognizable voices 00:00:12.220 --> 00:00:15.699 in mainstream animation. Right. We are doing 00:00:15.699 --> 00:00:18.140 a deep dive into the source material surrounding 00:00:18.140 --> 00:00:21.719 the life and well multifaceted career of Russian 00:00:21.719 --> 00:00:25.019 -American actor, comedian and writer Eugene Merman. 00:00:25.480 --> 00:00:27.079 That's a perfect way to put it, because, you 00:00:27.079 --> 00:00:28.960 know, when most people hear the name Eugene Merman, 00:00:29.079 --> 00:00:30.780 they immediately think they hear Gene Bilcher. 00:00:30.859 --> 00:00:33.719 Yeah, absolutely. The bombastic food and fart 00:00:33.719 --> 00:00:35.759 obsessed middle kid from Bob's Burgers. Can't 00:00:35.759 --> 00:00:37.899 miss him. But what our sources really light up 00:00:37.899 --> 00:00:40.759 is that his career wasn't just like one big break. 00:00:40.899 --> 00:00:45.399 It was this decades long. almost meticulously 00:00:45.399 --> 00:00:48.859 engineered path rooted in, well, intellectual 00:00:48.859 --> 00:00:51.439 rigor and some pretty anti -establishment economic 00:00:51.439 --> 00:00:54.079 choices. Exactly. And that's the mission today, 00:00:54.200 --> 00:00:56.200 right? To really understand that whole career 00:00:56.200 --> 00:00:58.780 arc. How does someone bridge that gap? Going 00:00:58.780 --> 00:01:01.159 from running these tiny, super local comedy shows 00:01:01.159 --> 00:01:04.359 in Brooklyn to... voicing a character everyone 00:01:04.359 --> 00:01:07.060 knows in a billion dollar animated franchise. 00:01:07.359 --> 00:01:10.319 We want to synthesize the nuggets of knowledge 00:01:10.319 --> 00:01:14.019 we have on his really customized education, his 00:01:14.019 --> 00:01:16.640 unique touring strategy, hitting the rock circuit, 00:01:16.819 --> 00:01:19.480 and how he translated that particular brand of 00:01:19.480 --> 00:01:22.079 absurdity into sustained media success. It's 00:01:22.079 --> 00:01:23.719 the story of the erudite absurdist, isn't it? 00:01:23.840 --> 00:01:26.060 Yeah. He's the comedian who basically treated 00:01:26.060 --> 00:01:28.640 comedy like an academic field. Right. And then 00:01:28.640 --> 00:01:30.659 he leveraged that foundation to connect with 00:01:30.659 --> 00:01:33.260 audiences who often... you're clear of traditional 00:01:33.260 --> 00:01:35.719 standup clubs, that balance, the intellectual 00:01:35.719 --> 00:01:38.379 foundation meeting this like genuine silliness. 00:01:38.420 --> 00:01:40.260 Yeah. That's what we need to unpack. Okay. Let's 00:01:40.260 --> 00:01:41.719 unpack this. And I think we have to start at 00:01:41.719 --> 00:01:43.980 the very, very beginning. Tracing his origins 00:01:43.980 --> 00:01:47.340 from the Soviet Union to that really pivotal 00:01:47.340 --> 00:01:49.719 kind of defining moment in his early American 00:01:49.719 --> 00:01:52.700 education. Right. We begin in Moscow. He was 00:01:52.700 --> 00:01:56.280 born Evgeny Borisovich Merman, July 24th, 1974. 00:01:56.640 --> 00:01:59.019 This was within the Russian SFSR Soviet Union. 00:01:59.390 --> 00:02:01.750 And that original name, Evgeny Borisovich, it 00:02:01.750 --> 00:02:03.730 tells such a critical piece of the story, doesn't 00:02:03.730 --> 00:02:06.170 it? About his heritage. His family background 00:02:06.170 --> 00:02:09.490 is deeply rooted in that Soviet Jewish experience. 00:02:10.110 --> 00:02:13.090 His father, Boris Miramin, was a civil engineer, 00:02:13.310 --> 00:02:16.430 identified as a Latvian Jew, and his mother was 00:02:16.430 --> 00:02:20.750 a Russian Jew. That heritage and then the move 00:02:20.750 --> 00:02:23.750 later on, it really forms the bedrock of his 00:02:23.750 --> 00:02:25.490 perspective, you could say. And the transition 00:02:25.490 --> 00:02:27.409 happened really early. The family immigrated 00:02:27.409 --> 00:02:29.349 to the U .S. when he was just four years old. 00:02:29.490 --> 00:02:32.930 Wow, four. Yeah, tiny. Eventually settling in 00:02:32.930 --> 00:02:34.669 Lexington, Massachusetts. And this is where you 00:02:34.669 --> 00:02:36.990 get the Anglicization, you know, a really common 00:02:36.990 --> 00:02:39.210 thing for immigrant families. Sure, makes sense. 00:02:39.409 --> 00:02:43.490 So Evgeny becomes Eugene and the patronymic Borisovich. 00:02:44.219 --> 00:02:46.439 It gets sort of shortened, effectively becoming 00:02:46.439 --> 00:02:48.460 his middle name, Boris. He went through the usual 00:02:48.460 --> 00:02:51.060 Massachusetts public schools, William Diamond 00:02:51.060 --> 00:02:53.180 Middle School and then Lexington High School. 00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:55.400 OK. And it was it was shortly after that, right, 00:02:55.460 --> 00:02:57.000 that he made the decision that just fundamentally 00:02:57.000 --> 00:02:59.039 sets him apart from almost every other major 00:02:59.039 --> 00:03:01.280 comedian working today. His choice for college. 00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:04.099 Indeed. Yeah. He's a graduate of Hampshire College 00:03:04.099 --> 00:03:07.689 in Western Massachusetts. And this detail. It's 00:03:07.689 --> 00:03:10.169 so much more than just a footnote on his resume. 00:03:10.370 --> 00:03:12.530 It's kind of the key, I think, to understanding 00:03:12.530 --> 00:03:14.949 his specific brand. Why Hampshire specifically? 00:03:15.090 --> 00:03:16.849 What's the deal there? Well, Hampshire College 00:03:16.849 --> 00:03:20.129 is famous for its really individualized design 00:03:20.129 --> 00:03:23.610 your own major program. Oh, OK. And Ruman didn't 00:03:23.610 --> 00:03:26.770 just pick, you know, English lit or theater or 00:03:26.770 --> 00:03:29.150 something standard. He literally created his 00:03:29.150 --> 00:03:31.509 own field of study. He didn't just study comedy. 00:03:31.590 --> 00:03:34.469 He earned a specific Bachelor of Arts in comedy. 00:03:34.509 --> 00:03:37.699 That's just. Astonishing to me. It really is. 00:03:37.759 --> 00:03:39.900 When you talk about commitment, that is absolute 00:03:39.900 --> 00:03:42.900 dedication. Putting real intellectual weight 00:03:42.900 --> 00:03:45.439 behind something that's, let's be honest, often 00:03:45.439 --> 00:03:47.479 dismissed as kind of frivolous. Think about the 00:03:47.479 --> 00:03:49.740 depth that requires, though. It wasn't just like 00:03:49.740 --> 00:03:52.340 a minor concentration. It was a full academic 00:03:52.340 --> 00:03:55.080 structure he had to build. And his degree culminated 00:03:55.080 --> 00:03:57.840 not in some long, dusty written thesis analyzing 00:03:57.840 --> 00:04:00.979 humor theory, but in a practical, physical, one 00:04:00.979 --> 00:04:03.960 -hour comedy routine. That routine was his official 00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:06.680 thesis for graduation. Which just raises this 00:04:06.680 --> 00:04:09.680 fascinating point. How did that academic pursuit 00:04:09.680 --> 00:04:13.300 fundamentally shape his comedic persona? You 00:04:13.300 --> 00:04:15.020 know, we see so many comedians starting from 00:04:15.020 --> 00:04:17.600 improv or sketch or just grinding it out on the 00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:20.339 club circuit. Merman started by like analyzing 00:04:20.339 --> 00:04:23.240 the very structure of humor itself. I think it 00:04:23.240 --> 00:04:27.060 allowed him to engage in this type of intellectual 00:04:27.060 --> 00:04:30.360 absurdism. His comedy often plays with logical 00:04:30.360 --> 00:04:33.420 paradoxes, right? Yeah. Satirical takes on self 00:04:33.420 --> 00:04:36.240 -help culture. Yeah, like the will to whatevs. 00:04:36.379 --> 00:04:39.860 Exactly. And just a willingness to follow a really 00:04:39.860 --> 00:04:42.480 strange, super specific premise all the way to 00:04:42.480 --> 00:04:45.199 its illogical end. He sort of learned the rules 00:04:45.199 --> 00:04:47.779 of narrative and argument, probably just so he 00:04:47.779 --> 00:04:50.149 could deliberately break them. Huh. Makes sense. 00:04:50.329 --> 00:04:52.149 And that's why he fits so perfectly into niche 00:04:52.149 --> 00:04:54.990 satire and also why he can totally hold his own 00:04:54.990 --> 00:04:56.949 in a panel discussion with Neil deGrasse Tyson. 00:04:57.110 --> 00:05:00.829 He treats absurdity with this almost like scientific 00:05:00.829 --> 00:05:03.129 precision. That's a really profound way to put 00:05:03.129 --> 00:05:05.709 it. It suggests the erudite part isn't just a 00:05:05.709 --> 00:05:07.689 label we're sticking on him. It's like a methodology 00:05:07.689 --> 00:05:10.550 born directly from that college experience. I 00:05:10.550 --> 00:05:13.290 think so. And clearly he holds that whole experience 00:05:13.290 --> 00:05:16.269 in high regard. He went back later, right? Gave 00:05:16.269 --> 00:05:18.170 the commencement address at Lexington High School 00:05:18.170 --> 00:05:21.329 in 2009. And then kind of bringing it full circle, 00:05:21.470 --> 00:05:23.670 gave the commencement speech at his alma mater, 00:05:23.790 --> 00:05:26.610 Hampshire College, in 2012. Yeah, that circuit 00:05:26.610 --> 00:05:29.089 is just beautiful. It really validates the whole 00:05:29.089 --> 00:05:31.629 idea that comedy, if you approach it with rigor, 00:05:31.850 --> 00:05:35.089 can be a legitimate academic field. And he's 00:05:35.089 --> 00:05:36.930 kind of the living proof. Okay, so now he's got 00:05:36.930 --> 00:05:41.560 this B .A. in comedy in hand. What next? Well, 00:05:41.660 --> 00:05:43.699 he makes another calculated decision that further 00:05:43.699 --> 00:05:45.899 defines his path. He doesn't just head straight 00:05:45.899 --> 00:05:48.139 for the traditional stand -up pipeline, you know, 00:05:48.139 --> 00:05:50.959 open mics, waiting for spots at the improv. He 00:05:50.959 --> 00:05:54.040 totally embraced the alternative scene, often 00:05:54.040 --> 00:05:56.620 blurring the lines between comedy and, well, 00:05:56.639 --> 00:05:59.589 rock music. This transition is so crucial. He 00:05:59.589 --> 00:06:01.689 essentially carved out this parallel infrastructure 00:06:01.689 --> 00:06:05.050 for his career. His first big release, the absurd 00:06:05.050 --> 00:06:07.490 nightclub comedy of Eugene Merman, that came 00:06:07.490 --> 00:06:11.730 out in 2004. And it was a CD -DVD combo. Right. 00:06:11.829 --> 00:06:14.350 And critically, it was released on Suicide Squeeze 00:06:14.350 --> 00:06:18.110 Records, a music label known for indie rock acts. 00:06:18.230 --> 00:06:20.910 That choice alone, right off the bat, it signals 00:06:20.910 --> 00:06:23.269 exactly who his intended audience was. Totally. 00:06:23.350 --> 00:06:25.670 It's the same folks buying records from, like 00:06:25.670 --> 00:06:28.689 Modest Mouse or Death Cab for Cutie back then. 00:06:29.100 --> 00:06:30.920 They aren't looking for traditional borscht belt 00:06:30.920 --> 00:06:33.639 setups and punchlines. They want something weirder, 00:06:33.699 --> 00:06:35.800 something more countercultural. And that audience 00:06:35.800 --> 00:06:38.420 clicked with it instantly. The album got voted 00:06:38.420 --> 00:06:41.939 one of the best albums of 2004 by places that 00:06:41.939 --> 00:06:44.100 usually cover music and culture, like the A .V. 00:06:44.100 --> 00:06:46.899 Club and Time Out New York. Wow. So that basically 00:06:46.899 --> 00:06:49.079 confirmed that his niche was totally viable, 00:06:49.220 --> 00:06:51.899 completely outside the established, you know, 00:06:51.920 --> 00:06:54.839 comedy club ecosystem. So he basically doubled 00:06:54.839 --> 00:06:57.399 down on that strategy. Two years later, on guard 00:06:57.399 --> 00:07:00.860 society. Who tells the six? Released by Sub Pop, 00:07:01.060 --> 00:07:04.279 another major indie music powerhouse. Not, you 00:07:04.279 --> 00:07:06.319 know, Comedy Central Records or something obvious. 00:07:06.639 --> 00:07:08.819 Exactly. He's aligning himself with a specific 00:07:08.819 --> 00:07:11.779 cultural movement. And his output was just relentless 00:07:11.779 --> 00:07:14.399 in that period. You've got God is a 12 -year 00:07:14.399 --> 00:07:17.420 -old boy with Asperger's in 2009, recorded in 00:07:17.420 --> 00:07:21.680 Chicago. Great title. Isn't it? And then an evening 00:07:21.680 --> 00:07:24.660 of comedy in a fake underground laboratory in 00:07:24.660 --> 00:07:28.139 2012. I mean, the titles alone give you a pretty 00:07:28.139 --> 00:07:31.360 good hint about the kind of surreal, definitely 00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:33.600 non -traditional stuff he was tackling. And his 00:07:33.600 --> 00:07:36.699 most recent sort of big release, the 2015 special, 00:07:36.839 --> 00:07:39.800 I'm Sorry, You're Welcome. That thing was famously 00:07:39.800 --> 00:07:42.399 ambitious. Didn't it include like 45 minutes 00:07:42.399 --> 00:07:45.259 of just screaming? It did. And like 19 minutes 00:07:45.259 --> 00:07:47.500 of just sad descriptions of different houses. 00:07:47.920 --> 00:07:50.240 That level of commitment to the bit, I really 00:07:50.240 --> 00:07:52.639 think it stems directly from that academic foundation 00:07:52.639 --> 00:07:54.860 we talked about, pushing the boundaries of what 00:07:54.860 --> 00:07:57.339 the format can even hold. Absolutely. And beyond 00:07:57.339 --> 00:07:59.620 just the recorded albums, he was becoming a real 00:07:59.620 --> 00:08:01.800 fixture on the major arts and culture festival 00:08:01.800 --> 00:08:04.019 circuit, places like the U .S. Comedy Arts Festival 00:08:04.019 --> 00:08:07.060 in Aspen, Just for Laughs, Bumbershoot, South 00:08:07.060 --> 00:08:09.139 by Southwest. He was establishing himself as 00:08:09.139 --> 00:08:11.100 an artist, not just, you know, a guy telling 00:08:11.100 --> 00:08:14.050 jokes. Precisely. But maybe his biggest impact 00:08:14.050 --> 00:08:16.550 on the live scene, especially early on, was his 00:08:16.550 --> 00:08:18.949 role as a producer and curator in New York City. 00:08:19.310 --> 00:08:21.350 He wasn't just waiting around for a spot on someone 00:08:21.350 --> 00:08:23.449 else's show. He was building his own stages. 00:08:23.850 --> 00:08:26.430 Right. Tell us about Invite Them Up. Yeah. So 00:08:26.430 --> 00:08:28.189 he co -produced this weekly stand -up variety 00:08:28.189 --> 00:08:31.230 show, Invite Them Up, with Bobby Tisdale and 00:08:31.230 --> 00:08:33.730 Holly Schlesinger. And that show became this 00:08:33.730 --> 00:08:35.370 incredible platform. It won a Nightlife Award. 00:08:35.470 --> 00:08:37.129 And if you look at the list of people who came 00:08:37.129 --> 00:08:40.669 through. Mike Birbillia, Aziz Ansari, David Cross, 00:08:40.909 --> 00:08:43.049 Chelsea Peretti. Wow, heavy hitters. Seriously. 00:08:43.169 --> 00:08:45.870 He was directly nurturing that whole indie comedy 00:08:45.870 --> 00:08:49.190 boom happening in the late 2000s. And even more 00:08:49.190 --> 00:08:51.250 specifically, there was the legendary Pretty 00:08:51.250 --> 00:08:54.210 Good Friends show, right, at Union Hall in Brooklyn. 00:08:54.289 --> 00:08:56.169 It used to be called Tearing the Veil of Maya. 00:08:56.330 --> 00:08:59.789 That's the one produced with Julie Smith. That 00:08:59.789 --> 00:09:03.509 show got voted the best comedy night in NYC by 00:09:03.509 --> 00:09:06.289 New York Magazine. This really establishes him 00:09:06.289 --> 00:09:09.289 as a genuine kingmaker. in that specific, very 00:09:09.289 --> 00:09:12.110 influential Brooklyn scene. And this curatorial 00:09:12.110 --> 00:09:14.669 instinct, this preference for a certain vibe, 00:09:14.990 --> 00:09:17.529 it links directly to how he liked to tour, like 00:09:17.529 --> 00:09:19.370 David Cross and Patton Oswalt, who were also 00:09:19.370 --> 00:09:22.029 huge in that alt -comedy movement. Merman consistently 00:09:22.029 --> 00:09:24.629 chose to perform in rock clubs and theaters, 00:09:24.870 --> 00:09:27.009 often bypassing the traditional comedy clubs 00:09:27.009 --> 00:09:30.190 altogether. Yeah, he really did. And this choice... 00:09:30.399 --> 00:09:32.799 performing in venues actually designed for music, 00:09:32.980 --> 00:09:35.019 that's where the economics of his career get 00:09:35.019 --> 00:09:37.120 really interesting. Because he toured as an opener 00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:39.600 for actual bands, right? Loads of them. The Shins, 00:09:39.659 --> 00:09:43.000 Robin Hitchcock, Modest Mouse, Yul Tango, Gogo 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:46.320 Bordello, Andrew Bird, Cake. The list goes on. 00:09:46.460 --> 00:09:48.960 That is highly unconventional for a stand -up 00:09:48.960 --> 00:09:51.320 comedian. And it raises that big question for 00:09:51.320 --> 00:09:54.220 any performer. Why? Why choose the rock club 00:09:54.220 --> 00:09:57.190 circuit? And our sources actually give us a pretty 00:09:57.190 --> 00:09:59.789 surprising, tangible answer. It comes down to 00:09:59.789 --> 00:10:02.549 tour economics. Okay, get into that. Merman talked 00:10:02.549 --> 00:10:05.789 about this openly back in 2012. He basically 00:10:05.789 --> 00:10:08.549 said that opening for musicians, while yeah, 00:10:08.590 --> 00:10:10.769 it's uncommon for comics, it offered a totally 00:10:10.769 --> 00:10:13.190 different pay structure. Let's drill into that 00:10:13.190 --> 00:10:15.509 financial nugget, because that feels like a massive 00:10:15.509 --> 00:10:17.549 insight into the live entertainment market itself. 00:10:17.950 --> 00:10:20.710 He estimated a single music concert could pay 00:10:20.710 --> 00:10:22.990 up to three times what a standard comedy gig 00:10:22.990 --> 00:10:25.740 paid. Why? What's the reason for that disparity? 00:10:26.139 --> 00:10:28.240 Well, it's probably a mix of things. First, you 00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:30.620 know, music venues just operate on bigger ticket 00:10:30.620 --> 00:10:33.039 revenues generally, higher overhead too. But 00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:35.500 they often have these percentage deals for openers 00:10:35.500 --> 00:10:38.759 baked into a bigger overall budget. Okay. Second, 00:10:38.919 --> 00:10:41.039 think about it from the headlining band's perspective. 00:10:42.059 --> 00:10:45.100 Bringing in a cult favorite comedian like Merman, 00:10:45.220 --> 00:10:48.419 it adds value. It adds variety to their bill. 00:10:48.879 --> 00:10:51.200 So maybe they justify a higher payment for that. 00:10:51.299 --> 00:10:53.750 Right, breaks up the music. Plus... the audience 00:10:53.750 --> 00:10:56.190 is probably more likely to be, you know, standing, 00:10:56.289 --> 00:10:58.629 maybe drinking more, ready to spend money on 00:10:58.629 --> 00:11:01.529 merch, which helps everyone involved. Okay. But 00:11:01.529 --> 00:11:04.070 he did offer an important counterpoint too, right? 00:11:04.129 --> 00:11:06.470 He said he generally made about two -thirds of 00:11:06.470 --> 00:11:09.269 what he might earn from doing, say, five separate 00:11:09.269 --> 00:11:11.870 comedy club gigs over a week. Exactly. So it 00:11:11.870 --> 00:11:13.929 wasn't necessarily about maximizing the total 00:11:13.929 --> 00:11:16.350 monthly income. It sounds like it was more about 00:11:16.350 --> 00:11:19.049 maximizing the value of a single night's work. 00:11:19.330 --> 00:11:21.919 Precisely. Think about it. Doing five comedy 00:11:21.919 --> 00:11:25.139 club gigs means flying or driving to five different 00:11:25.139 --> 00:11:28.080 cities, five separate setups, dealing with five 00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:30.779 different bookers. Logistics nightmare. Totally. 00:11:31.299 --> 00:11:34.379 By opening for a band, he got one, often larger, 00:11:34.539 --> 00:11:37.340 payout. He traveled as part of an already established 00:11:37.340 --> 00:11:40.980 tour infrastructure. And crucially, he got exposed 00:11:40.980 --> 00:11:44.059 to potentially thousands of people who weren't 00:11:44.059 --> 00:11:46.700 actively seeking out comedy, but were open to 00:11:46.700 --> 00:11:48.580 it because they were there for the music. That's 00:11:48.580 --> 00:11:51.159 the key tradeoff then. Trading maybe maximum 00:11:51.159 --> 00:11:53.840 quantity of income for a higher quality of income, 00:11:53.919 --> 00:11:56.899 better exposure, and honestly, probably less 00:11:56.899 --> 00:11:59.340 logistical stress. Absolutely. It's a genius 00:11:59.340 --> 00:12:02.000 move for brand building. It positions him as 00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:04.940 an artist who happens to be funny, adjacent to 00:12:04.940 --> 00:12:07.360 indie rock, rather than just another club comic. 00:12:07.759 --> 00:12:09.679 And it probably ensures more creative freedom, 00:12:09.779 --> 00:12:12.059 too, right? Rock clubs typically aren't imposing 00:12:12.059 --> 00:12:14.480 the same restrictions or like audience expectations 00:12:14.480 --> 00:12:16.899 that traditional comedy clubs sometimes do. You're 00:12:16.899 --> 00:12:19.080 less likely to have to worry about hitting certain 00:12:19.080 --> 00:12:21.980 beats or, you know, drink minimums affecting 00:12:21.980 --> 00:12:23.899 the mood. Yeah, definitely a different vibe. 00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:27.399 But Merman wasn't only in the music scene. He 00:12:27.399 --> 00:12:30.000 was still deeply connected to major comedy tours, 00:12:30.159 --> 00:12:32.240 running with the best of the alternative scene. 00:12:32.379 --> 00:12:34.500 Right, he was on the Legendary Comedians of Comedy 00:12:34.500 --> 00:12:37.620 Tour. Yep, alongside Patton Oswalt, Brian Posen, 00:12:37.659 --> 00:12:40.299 Maria Bamford. Huge. He also opened for Flight 00:12:40.299 --> 00:12:42.419 of the Conchords, which, as we'll see, turned 00:12:42.419 --> 00:12:44.940 into Screen Time later. Ah, okay. And he toured 00:12:44.940 --> 00:12:47.440 with Andy Kindler and Marc Maron in a show called 00:12:47.440 --> 00:12:49.659 Stand -Upity. So he really maintained a foot 00:12:49.659 --> 00:12:52.580 in both worlds, alternative music and alternative 00:12:52.580 --> 00:12:55.570 comedy. And then really cementing his leadership 00:12:55.570 --> 00:12:57.950 role in that whole scene was the creation of 00:12:57.950 --> 00:13:00.429 the Eugene Merman Comedy Festival. Right, which 00:13:00.429 --> 00:13:04.889 ran for a full decade, 2008 to 2017. Ten years. 00:13:05.610 --> 00:13:07.509 Maintaining a festival like that, attracting 00:13:07.509 --> 00:13:09.649 huge talent, basically defining the Brooklyn 00:13:09.649 --> 00:13:12.350 comedy calendar for a while, that takes intense 00:13:12.350 --> 00:13:15.370 effort, both administrative and creative. No 00:13:15.370 --> 00:13:18.250 kidding. And that whole festival experience became 00:13:18.250 --> 00:13:21.389 the focus of that 2020 film. It started as a 00:13:21.389 --> 00:13:23.480 joke. It's a documentary that chronicles the 00:13:23.480 --> 00:13:25.299 final year. We'll touch on the personal side 00:13:25.299 --> 00:13:27.340 of that in a bit, but it really showcases how 00:13:27.340 --> 00:13:29.860 integral the festival was to his whole professional 00:13:29.860 --> 00:13:31.919 identity. And we should also note, just to wrap 00:13:31.919 --> 00:13:33.899 up the stand -up specials part, the recording 00:13:33.899 --> 00:13:37.000 of his 2015 special Eugene Ruman, Vegan, On His 00:13:37.000 --> 00:13:39.639 Way to the Complain Store. Ah, yes. Directed 00:13:39.639 --> 00:13:42.120 by Bobcat Goldthwait. Another artist known for 00:13:42.120 --> 00:13:44.940 embracing the weirder side of things. Releasing 00:13:44.940 --> 00:13:47.240 that on Netflix really solidified his transition, 00:13:47.419 --> 00:13:50.399 didn't it, from like... indie darling to a name 00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:52.440 recognizable on major platforms. Definitely. 00:13:52.500 --> 00:13:54.580 It felt like a big step into wider visibility. 00:13:55.100 --> 00:13:57.960 OK, so moving from those, you know, sometimes 00:13:57.960 --> 00:14:00.980 sticky floored rock clubs to the massive corporate 00:14:00.980 --> 00:14:03.539 structures of Hollywood, let's talk about how 00:14:03.539 --> 00:14:06.179 his unique sound translated into major screen 00:14:06.179 --> 00:14:09.059 success. This is really where the voice became 00:14:09.059 --> 00:14:11.559 the super recognizable commodity. Yeah, his voice 00:14:11.559 --> 00:14:14.620 is just. Distinctive, isn't it? That slightly 00:14:14.620 --> 00:14:17.600 nasal, super enthusiastic, almost giddy quality, 00:14:17.759 --> 00:14:20.720 instantly recognizable. And the absolute anchor 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:23.200 of his voice acting career and probably his most 00:14:23.200 --> 00:14:26.200 famous role overall is Gene Belcher on Fox's 00:14:26.200 --> 00:14:28.759 Bob's Burgers. Since 2011, right? Still going 00:14:28.759 --> 00:14:31.019 strong. Still going. And Gene Belcher is just 00:14:31.019 --> 00:14:33.019 the perfect synthesis of the Merman persona, 00:14:33.220 --> 00:14:35.779 isn't he? Totally. He's musical. He's deeply 00:14:35.779 --> 00:14:37.899 committed to his own absurdity. And he has this 00:14:37.899 --> 00:14:41.009 kind of... joyful, chaotic intellectualism bubbling 00:14:41.009 --> 00:14:42.929 underneath. He really feels like the son of an 00:14:42.929 --> 00:14:45.450 erudite absurdist. Couldn't agree more. And that 00:14:45.450 --> 00:14:48.950 character is so beloved, so successful that the 00:14:48.950 --> 00:14:52.370 role naturally just expanded. He reprised Gene's 00:14:52.370 --> 00:14:55.889 voice in the 2022 short film My Butt Has a Fever. 00:14:55.950 --> 00:14:58.690 Right. The big feature length, the Bob's Burgers 00:14:58.690 --> 00:15:01.970 movie. And he even achieved like the ultimate 00:15:01.970 --> 00:15:05.799 animation crossover dream. Guest voicing Gene 00:15:05.799 --> 00:15:08.220 Belcher on The Simpsons back in 2018. That's 00:15:08.220 --> 00:15:10.779 making it. But his recurring TV roles actually 00:15:10.779 --> 00:15:13.539 started way before Gene Belcher blew up. For 00:15:13.539 --> 00:15:16.980 listeners who remember the glory days of early 00:15:16.980 --> 00:15:19.879 Adult Swim and noosh cable comedy, Merman was 00:15:19.879 --> 00:15:22.820 already a pretty consistent presence. Oh, absolutely. 00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:25.580 Before Bob's Burgers even premiered, he was playing 00:15:25.580 --> 00:15:28.320 Evgeny Merminsky across, what, 27 episodes of 00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:31.159 Delicated? From 2009 to 2012. Right, Merminsky. 00:15:31.259 --> 00:15:33.580 Another really specific, strange character, often 00:15:33.580 --> 00:15:35.299 playing on his Russian background for laughs, 00:15:35.480 --> 00:15:37.940 but always with that specific, slightly off -kilter 00:15:37.940 --> 00:15:39.789 Merman. energy. Definitely. And you mentioned 00:15:39.789 --> 00:15:41.690 his touring with Flight of the Conchords earlier. 00:15:41.830 --> 00:15:43.590 Yeah. Well, that relationship paid off nicely 00:15:43.590 --> 00:15:45.750 on screen, too. He played the character Eugene 00:15:45.750 --> 00:15:48.590 across 12 episodes of their HBO show between 00:15:48.590 --> 00:15:51.389 2007 and 2009. That's such a perfect example 00:15:51.389 --> 00:15:54.470 of how his indie collaborations, those relationships 00:15:54.470 --> 00:15:57.909 built on the road and in those small venues consistently 00:15:57.909 --> 00:16:00.789 translated into these bigger mainstream opportunities. 00:16:01.149 --> 00:16:02.970 It really is. Yeah. We also need to talk about 00:16:02.970 --> 00:16:06.240 his other big animation mainstay, Archer. Ah, 00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:09.820 yes. Cecil Tunt. Cecil Tunt, the multimillionaire 00:16:09.820 --> 00:16:12.919 brother of Cheryl Carroll Tunt, appeared in seven 00:16:12.919 --> 00:16:15.919 episodes starting back in April 2013. What's 00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:18.019 fascinating about Cecil Tunt, especially compared 00:16:18.019 --> 00:16:20.639 to Gene Belcher, is the contrast, right? Gene 00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:22.960 is all earnestness and sort of innocent chaos. 00:16:23.399 --> 00:16:26.840 Cecil Tunt is just pure entitlement, supremely 00:16:26.840 --> 00:16:29.360 wealthy, and completely unhinged. Totally different 00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:32.259 vibe. But Merman uses that same high, slightly 00:16:32.259 --> 00:16:35.700 frantic vocal register. He just injects it with 00:16:35.700 --> 00:16:38.740 his detached, almost chilling, upper -class strangeness. 00:16:38.779 --> 00:16:41.080 It really shows his range isn't about changing 00:16:41.080 --> 00:16:43.860 his voice entirely, but finding these new emotional 00:16:43.860 --> 00:16:46.379 textures within his signature sound. That's a 00:16:46.379 --> 00:16:48.200 great point. And if you look at the sheer volume 00:16:48.200 --> 00:16:50.799 of his really voice work, it reads like a roadmap 00:16:50.799 --> 00:16:52.940 of the entire alternative animation scene back 00:16:52.940 --> 00:16:55.259 then. He did various voices on Aqua Teen Hunger 00:16:55.259 --> 00:16:57.330 Force. Of course he did. including characters 00:16:57.330 --> 00:17:00.429 named Dr. Eugene Merman and get this, Dr. Gene 00:17:00.429 --> 00:17:03.289 Belcher. Wait, pause on that. He played a character 00:17:03.289 --> 00:17:06.049 named Dr. Gene Belcher on Aqua Teen before Bob's 00:17:06.049 --> 00:17:08.250 Burgers even launched. It seems so. Across five 00:17:08.250 --> 00:17:11.509 episodes between 2006 and 2015. It's like this 00:17:11.509 --> 00:17:14.569 bizarre, deep cut animation history premonition. 00:17:14.890 --> 00:17:17.210 Wild. That is wild. What else from that era? 00:17:17.450 --> 00:17:19.569 He also voiced Special Sister in various other 00:17:19.569 --> 00:17:22.049 roles on Lucy, the Daughter of the Devil, starting 00:17:22.049 --> 00:17:25.309 in 2007. And he had an even earlier voice role, 00:17:25.450 --> 00:17:28.210 just credited as Eugene, on Home Movies way back, 00:17:28.430 --> 00:17:32.069 spanning 1999 to 2004. Wow, Home Movies. He's 00:17:32.069 --> 00:17:34.529 been a constant voice, contributing to that strange 00:17:34.529 --> 00:17:36.970 and wonderful corner of animation for, well, 00:17:36.990 --> 00:17:39.309 over two decades now. He really has. And the 00:17:39.309 --> 00:17:41.130 more recent animated credits show the consistency 00:17:41.130 --> 00:17:43.269 hasn't dropped off at all. He voices the character 00:17:43.269 --> 00:17:46.359 Burger. on that cartoon network show, Apple and 00:17:46.359 --> 00:17:48.640 Onion. Okay. And even popped up as Dennis Fletcher 00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:50.900 in an episode of The Boys Presents, Diabolical 00:17:50.900 --> 00:17:53.940 in 2022. He is just the definition of a reliable, 00:17:54.019 --> 00:17:56.880 working voice actor who brings immediate, specific 00:17:56.880 --> 00:17:59.359 characterization the moment he steps up to the 00:17:59.359 --> 00:18:02.460 mic. So shifting gears slightly to live action. 00:18:03.150 --> 00:18:06.569 While maybe his face isn't as instantly recognizable 00:18:06.569 --> 00:18:09.589 as his voice, his appearances seem deliberately 00:18:09.589 --> 00:18:12.710 memorable and often pretty bizarre. Early on, 00:18:12.710 --> 00:18:14.930 there was an appearance as Bernie Foy on Third 00:18:14.930 --> 00:18:17.789 Watch back in 2002. Yeah, a more straight role. 00:18:17.930 --> 00:18:19.970 But the real highlights are definitely the ones 00:18:19.970 --> 00:18:22.109 that lean right into his absurdity. Like playing 00:18:22.109 --> 00:18:24.950 a spokes potato on Food Network. Exactly. That 00:18:24.950 --> 00:18:27.470 perfectly embodies the surreal nature of some 00:18:27.470 --> 00:18:29.809 of his side gigs. It's just perfectly Merman. 00:18:30.190 --> 00:18:32.009 And my personal favorite, I think, has to be 00:18:32.009 --> 00:18:34.789 his appearance as a fertility clown on the Colbert 00:18:34.789 --> 00:18:37.269 Report in 2011. Oh, yeah. Those are the kinds 00:18:37.269 --> 00:18:39.210 of roles you get when casting directors know 00:18:39.210 --> 00:18:41.990 you excel at being highly specific, strangely 00:18:41.990 --> 00:18:44.410 intellectual, but still within the bounds of 00:18:44.410 --> 00:18:46.930 a really weird joke. Totally. He also popped 00:18:46.930 --> 00:18:49.430 up on Broad City as the character Zed in 2016 00:18:49.430 --> 00:18:53.410 and had that fun little cameo as Yacht Club Security 00:18:53.410 --> 00:18:57.779 in the Confess Fletch movie in 2022. What connects 00:18:57.779 --> 00:18:59.599 a few of these cameo appearances, especially 00:18:59.599 --> 00:19:02.099 the more recent ones, is his utility in political 00:19:02.099 --> 00:19:04.660 satire, particularly with John Oliver. He's been 00:19:04.660 --> 00:19:07.299 on Last Week Tonight twice now, right? He has. 00:19:07.420 --> 00:19:09.960 And the roles he played are just perfect examples 00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:13.059 of his specific range within that absurdity. 00:19:13.460 --> 00:19:17.440 In 2016, he was Gary, this highly competent, 00:19:17.579 --> 00:19:20.339 slightly mischievous hacker. Yeah, requires that 00:19:20.339 --> 00:19:22.940 sense of intellectual mischief. Exactly. And 00:19:22.940 --> 00:19:26.200 then just this year, in 2024. he provided the 00:19:26.200 --> 00:19:29.819 voice of a butternut squash. From hacker to butternut 00:19:29.819 --> 00:19:32.579 squash. The absurdity never compromises, whether 00:19:32.579 --> 00:19:35.720 the topic is election security or, well, cords. 00:19:35.960 --> 00:19:38.240 That adaptability is just key, isn't it? Whether 00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:40.619 the material is highbrow satire or just pure 00:19:40.619 --> 00:19:43.480 vocal weirdness, he delivers. And this takes 00:19:43.480 --> 00:19:45.920 us perfectly into his work beyond the stage and 00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:48.299 screen his surprisingly deep footprint as a writer 00:19:48.299 --> 00:19:50.779 and in various audio productions. Yeah. And this 00:19:50.779 --> 00:19:52.460 is where we really circle back to that erudite 00:19:52.460 --> 00:19:55.099 foundation we started with. In 2009, he channeled 00:19:55.099 --> 00:19:57.500 that sort of academic approach to humor into 00:19:57.500 --> 00:19:59.900 releasing a satirical self -help book, The Will 00:19:59.900 --> 00:20:02.460 to What Ifs. Right. The whole concept is basically 00:20:02.460 --> 00:20:05.119 a logical takedown of that hyper earnest, often 00:20:05.119 --> 00:20:07.160 kind of silly self -help genre. It feels like 00:20:07.160 --> 00:20:10.250 a very Merman -esque project. Totally. Applying 00:20:10.250 --> 00:20:13.069 that satirical lens to nonfiction just proves 00:20:13.069 --> 00:20:16.569 again that the B .A. in comedy wasn't just like 00:20:16.569 --> 00:20:20.009 a fun party trick degree. It was a license to 00:20:20.009 --> 00:20:22.950 analyze culture and deconstruct established norms 00:20:22.950 --> 00:20:26.230 using humor as the main tool. But maybe the most 00:20:26.230 --> 00:20:28.690 enduring collaboration he has outside of animation. 00:20:29.349 --> 00:20:31.549 is his regular presence on StarTalk Radio and 00:20:31.549 --> 00:20:34.849 then the TV version, too, hosted by astrophysicist 00:20:34.849 --> 00:20:37.190 Neil deGrasse Tyson. Yeah, that's a big one. 00:20:37.269 --> 00:20:39.150 On the surface, it seems like such an unlikely 00:20:39.150 --> 00:20:41.710 pairing, right? A super serious scientist and 00:20:41.710 --> 00:20:43.390 the surreal comedian. You wouldn't necessarily 00:20:43.390 --> 00:20:45.789 put them together. But if you connect the dots 00:20:45.789 --> 00:20:47.769 back to his educational background, like we've 00:20:47.769 --> 00:20:49.970 been doing, it actually makes perfect sense. 00:20:50.029 --> 00:20:52.650 He provides that logical absurdity, that unexpected 00:20:52.650 --> 00:20:55.390 human element that kind of bridges the really 00:20:55.390 --> 00:20:58.289 complex scientific concepts for a broader audience. 00:20:58.640 --> 00:21:00.640 clearly intellectually curious himself, which 00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:03.599 Tyson obviously values. It's the ultimate example 00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:06.779 of the erudite absurdist at work, isn't it? Applying 00:21:06.779 --> 00:21:09.720 his comedic methodology to like the entire universe. 00:21:10.250 --> 00:21:12.490 Pretty much. He also got into the dedicated podcast 00:21:12.490 --> 00:21:15.109 world himself, hosting his own show, Hold On 00:21:15.109 --> 00:21:18.170 with Eugene Merman, for about a year, 2017 to 00:21:18.170 --> 00:21:21.289 2018. The sources show he consistently uses audio 00:21:21.289 --> 00:21:25.190 platforms as this space for exploration and conversation. 00:21:25.730 --> 00:21:28.029 And he's become a really reliable comedic anchor 00:21:28.029 --> 00:21:30.150 on other popular podcasts, too. He frequently 00:21:30.150 --> 00:21:33.069 shows up as an expert witness on John Hodgman's 00:21:33.069 --> 00:21:35.470 Judge John Hodgman podcast. Oh, yeah, he's great 00:21:35.470 --> 00:21:38.109 on that. His quick intellectual wit is just perfectly 00:21:38.109 --> 00:21:40.819 suited to that format. Yeah. You know, resolving 00:21:40.819 --> 00:21:44.200 these tiny disputes with ridiculously high stakes 00:21:44.200 --> 00:21:46.680 absurdity. He also appeared on Ken Reed's TV 00:21:46.680 --> 00:21:49.279 Guidance Counselor podcast. And that episode 00:21:49.279 --> 00:21:52.039 was actually recorded live at the 2015 Eugene 00:21:52.039 --> 00:21:54.859 Merman Comedy Festival in Boston. Ah, another 00:21:54.859 --> 00:21:56.900 example of his different work worlds constantly 00:21:56.900 --> 00:21:59.119 intersecting. Exactly. And for those families 00:21:59.119 --> 00:22:01.240 listening, you might be surprised even children's 00:22:01.240 --> 00:22:03.599 media has felt his influence. He played Benny 00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:05.960 the Gerbil on the kids podcast. This podcast 00:22:05.960 --> 00:22:09.259 has fleas back in 2017. Benny the Gerbil. Amazing. 00:22:09.539 --> 00:22:12.440 He truly has cultivated this incredibly comprehensive, 00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:15.200 really diversified media profile across pretty 00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:17.400 much every audio platform available. So before 00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:19.920 we bring this whole comprehensive career trajectory 00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:22.380 to a close, we really should touch on some of 00:22:22.380 --> 00:22:24.140 the personal life details that kind of frame 00:22:24.140 --> 00:22:26.740 the context for his work, especially as documented 00:22:26.740 --> 00:22:29.099 around the final years of his comedy festival. 00:22:29.160 --> 00:22:32.140 Right. So on September 7, 2015, he married his 00:22:32.140 --> 00:22:35.759 longtime partner, Katie Westfall Tharp. And she 00:22:35.759 --> 00:22:37.539 was actually a professional within the comedy 00:22:37.539 --> 00:22:40.920 ecosystem herself. She worked as a set decorator 00:22:40.920 --> 00:22:43.759 on shows like Inside Amy Schumer and Human Giant. 00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:46.619 Oh, interesting connection. Yeah. And they have 00:22:46.619 --> 00:22:49.279 a son together, born in 2016. But tragically, 00:22:49.299 --> 00:22:51.839 she passed away from cancer on January 29th, 00:22:51.839 --> 00:22:55.420 2020. Yeah. A profound loss. And it was really 00:22:55.420 --> 00:22:57.380 intertwined with his professional life at that 00:22:57.380 --> 00:22:59.920 time because the documentary about his final 00:22:59.920 --> 00:23:03.539 comedy festival year, it started as a joke. It 00:23:03.539 --> 00:23:05.539 captured that incredibly difficult, emotionally 00:23:05.539 --> 00:23:08.539 intense period. It really shows the very real 00:23:08.539 --> 00:23:11.259 human cost behind the comedy sometimes. Absolutely. 00:23:11.319 --> 00:23:13.339 It's important context to remember. His work, 00:23:13.359 --> 00:23:15.740 the festival, his personal life, it was all deeply 00:23:15.740 --> 00:23:18.859 connected during that time. But the sources also 00:23:18.859 --> 00:23:21.779 reflect a continuation of life and commitment. 00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:25.119 He married comedian Therese Plain in 2023, so 00:23:25.119 --> 00:23:27.440 still very much within that sphere of creative 00:23:27.440 --> 00:23:30.059 performance. Okay. And just for our listener 00:23:30.059 --> 00:23:33.480 who might need... a final quick synthesis of 00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:35.660 the sheer volume of his output over the years 00:23:35.660 --> 00:23:38.819 we should probably rapidly fire off some additional 00:23:38.819 --> 00:23:41.180 credits that just prove his consistent high level 00:23:41.180 --> 00:23:44.339 of work Sure. Discography wise, beyond the main 00:23:44.339 --> 00:23:46.559 albums, there's the earlier Invite Them Up album 00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:50.319 from 2005, which was so key for that NYC thing 00:23:50.319 --> 00:23:52.519 we talked about. And the Comedians of Comedy 00:23:52.519 --> 00:23:55.660 3 tour CD from 2006, confirming how important 00:23:55.660 --> 00:23:58.180 he was to that specific traveling show. And TV 00:23:58.180 --> 00:24:00.019 appearances just continue throughout his career, 00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:02.920 right? Shows like Premium Blend, Cheap Seats, 00:24:03.019 --> 00:24:04.940 The Benson Interruption, Comedy Exchange back 00:24:04.940 --> 00:24:07.839 in 2010. Yeah. The list goes on. His career is 00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:10.039 really just characterized by relentless work, 00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:12.490 whether it's a time. voice role in an obscure 00:24:12.490 --> 00:24:15.230 cartoon or headlining his own major festival 00:24:15.230 --> 00:24:18.289 okay so to try and summarize this whole trajectory 00:24:18.289 --> 00:24:21.130 we followed we started with that highly intellectual 00:24:21.130 --> 00:24:24.650 really customized comedy degree thesis back in 00:24:24.650 --> 00:24:27.410 Western Massachusetts right that rigor seems 00:24:27.410 --> 00:24:29.589 to have given him the confidence to take these 00:24:29.589 --> 00:24:33.299 big creative and economic risks it fueled his 00:24:33.299 --> 00:24:36.000 sort of anti -establishment path through the 00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:38.519 rock club circuit which ultimately built this 00:24:38.519 --> 00:24:41.400 unique brand identity and that led him eventually 00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:43.880 to become this beloved and incredibly consistent 00:24:43.880 --> 00:24:47.019 voice in massive animated franchises like bob's 00:24:47.019 --> 00:24:49.799 burgers and archer looking back at all that what 00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:52.279 stands out most profoundly to you in this whole 00:24:52.279 --> 00:24:54.849 journey For me, I think it's that deliberate 00:24:54.849 --> 00:24:57.710 rejection of the traditional path, choosing audience 00:24:57.710 --> 00:25:00.750 control and creative freedom over maybe the easier 00:25:00.750 --> 00:25:03.369 or more obvious route. His willingness to make 00:25:03.369 --> 00:25:06.170 that economic tradeoff we discussed, maybe less 00:25:06.170 --> 00:25:08.750 total income from fewer gigs, but getting that 00:25:08.750 --> 00:25:10.930 higher quality of engagement and better exposure 00:25:10.930 --> 00:25:13.589 in return, that's what protected his specific, 00:25:13.750 --> 00:25:16.529 weird, intellectual, comedic voice. That makes 00:25:16.529 --> 00:25:19.119 sense. He never really had to flatten out the 00:25:19.119 --> 00:25:22.680 absurdity to fit the mold of a traditional comedy 00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:25.980 club booker's expectations. And that I think 00:25:25.980 --> 00:25:28.700 is why his voice translated so cleanly into success 00:25:28.700 --> 00:25:32.019 with shows that actually value niche creativity. 00:25:32.569 --> 00:25:35.170 It's a really inspiring model for any kind of 00:25:35.170 --> 00:25:37.089 artist, isn't it? He figured out the audience 00:25:37.089 --> 00:25:39.390 that would genuinely appreciate his specific 00:25:39.390 --> 00:25:42.490 style, that alternative music crowd. And then 00:25:42.490 --> 00:25:44.849 he built his entire infrastructure around reaching 00:25:44.849 --> 00:25:47.690 them rather than trying to force himself into 00:25:47.690 --> 00:25:49.829 a system that just wasn't built for him. Exactly. 00:25:50.470 --> 00:25:53.069 Which brings us perfectly to our final provocative 00:25:53.069 --> 00:25:55.009 thought for you and the listener. We've talked 00:25:55.009 --> 00:25:57.049 in a lot of detail about the unique economics 00:25:57.049 --> 00:25:59.269 of him touring with bands like Modest Mouse and 00:25:59.269 --> 00:26:02.049 Yola Tango versus the traditional comedy club 00:26:02.049 --> 00:26:05.690 grind. So if, as we've kind of seen, the market 00:26:05.690 --> 00:26:08.369 for live entertainment continues to merge and 00:26:08.369 --> 00:26:10.950 maybe more comedians are seeking greater financial 00:26:10.950 --> 00:26:14.460 and creative autonomy. Which other distinctive 00:26:14.460 --> 00:26:17.279 voice actors, or maybe just comedians with really 00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:20.240 strong unique voices, might you see following 00:26:20.240 --> 00:26:23.400 this exact same road? actually abandoning the 00:26:23.400 --> 00:26:25.839 standard comedy venue infrastructure for what 00:26:25.839 --> 00:26:27.680 could be a more lucrative and definitely more 00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:30.259 creatively fertile scene within rock and music 00:26:30.259 --> 00:26:32.720 venues. It raises a really fascinating question 00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:34.640 about the future of touring comedy, doesn't it? 00:26:34.819 --> 00:26:37.039 Maybe the most successful comedians of tomorrow 00:26:37.039 --> 00:26:39.299 won't be the ones headlining the improvs and 00:26:39.299 --> 00:26:41.160 the funny bones. Maybe they'll be opening for 00:26:41.160 --> 00:26:43.380 the next generation of indie rock bands. Something 00:26:43.380 --> 00:26:45.420 to think about. Definitely something to mull 00:26:45.420 --> 00:26:48.319 over until our next deep dive. Thanks for listening.