WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.740 Welcome, everyone, to the Deep Dive. Hello. Today, 00:00:02.899 --> 00:00:06.339 we are undertaking a deep dive into, well, a 00:00:06.339 --> 00:00:09.339 truly extraordinary career and, honestly, a pretty 00:00:09.339 --> 00:00:13.500 complex inner life. A comic legend. His material 00:00:13.500 --> 00:00:18.559 was often called anarchic, deeply dark, sometimes 00:00:18.559 --> 00:00:20.879 maybe inappropriate. Sometimes definitely inappropriate. 00:00:21.539 --> 00:00:25.480 Right? But always, undeniably, just possessing 00:00:25.480 --> 00:00:28.609 this genius only he could conjure up. We are, 00:00:28.649 --> 00:00:30.070 of course, talking about Norm and Gene McDonald. 00:00:30.350 --> 00:00:31.910 And when we talk about Norm Macdonald, look, 00:00:32.030 --> 00:00:34.270 we aren't just summarizing some great comedian. 00:00:34.369 --> 00:00:36.250 It's more than that. We're trying to unpack the 00:00:36.250 --> 00:00:38.810 methodology of a true original. I mean, this 00:00:38.810 --> 00:00:41.289 is a man whom David Letterman himself, you know, 00:00:41.310 --> 00:00:44.149 a pioneer of late night, he flat out declared 00:00:44.149 --> 00:00:47.130 Norm the best stand -up comedian. That's huge 00:00:47.130 --> 00:00:49.799 praise. It is. And that high praise isn't just 00:00:49.799 --> 00:00:51.700 like hyperbole. It's really an acknowledgement 00:00:51.700 --> 00:00:53.979 that Norm operated on a completely different 00:00:53.979 --> 00:00:56.380 plane of comedic thought. It's just different. 00:00:56.579 --> 00:00:59.340 So our mission in this deep dive is to synthesize 00:00:59.340 --> 00:01:02.560 the sources covering his, wow, 36 year career. 00:01:02.719 --> 00:01:05.239 It stretches from his start way back in 1985, 00:01:05.439 --> 00:01:08.400 right up to his passing in 2021. We're going 00:01:08.400 --> 00:01:12.780 to focus intensely on his unique, unrepeatable 00:01:12.780 --> 00:01:15.879 comedic identity. That signature dead can style, 00:01:16.079 --> 00:01:18.980 obviously. Oh, yeah. The career -defining controversies. 00:01:18.980 --> 00:01:21.480 And we have to get into the legendary O .J. saga. 00:01:21.620 --> 00:01:24.659 Absolutely. It's central. And also the deeply 00:01:24.659 --> 00:01:27.980 private secrets he kept hidden from basically 00:01:27.980 --> 00:01:31.379 everyone until his final days. Right. And to 00:01:31.379 --> 00:01:33.060 really get Norm Macdonald, you have to understand 00:01:33.060 --> 00:01:36.120 the fabric of his humor first. It is defined 00:01:36.120 --> 00:01:38.400 by that deadpan delivery, sure. The ultimate 00:01:38.400 --> 00:01:41.140 deadpan, maybe. Maybe. But it's not just the 00:01:41.140 --> 00:01:43.700 absence of emotion. It feels more like a philosophical 00:01:43.700 --> 00:01:46.299 commitment to the bit itself, you know? Yeah, 00:01:46.299 --> 00:01:48.900 yeah. It's built on this eccentric understatement, 00:01:48.939 --> 00:01:51.780 these folksy, almost old -fashioned phrases that 00:01:51.780 --> 00:01:54.299 kind of mask the intellectual cruelty sometimes 00:01:54.299 --> 00:01:56.180 lurking in the joke. Oh, definitely. And the 00:01:56.180 --> 00:01:58.099 non -sequiturs. The non -sequiturs. And, of course, 00:01:58.159 --> 00:02:00.939 his use of black comedy and those— incredible, 00:02:01.000 --> 00:02:04.040 sprawling, shaggy dog stories. You know, the 00:02:04.040 --> 00:02:07.040 genius of the deadpan, I think, is that it serves 00:02:07.040 --> 00:02:09.659 as a barrier almost. How so? Well, the audience 00:02:09.659 --> 00:02:11.860 doesn't get that instant gratification, you know, 00:02:11.860 --> 00:02:14.740 the comedian reacting along with them. Instead... 00:02:15.180 --> 00:02:18.300 The lack of reaction forces you, the listener, 00:02:18.479 --> 00:02:20.699 to do the intellectual heavy lifting. Exactly. 00:02:20.759 --> 00:02:23.419 It's like comedy as a performance art of patience 00:02:23.419 --> 00:02:26.900 and internal logic. And that patience, it's tied 00:02:26.900 --> 00:02:29.840 directly to his early academic interests, I think. 00:02:29.919 --> 00:02:32.259 If you look at his background, he studied mathematics 00:02:32.259 --> 00:02:34.780 and philosophy. Which seems counterintuitive 00:02:34.780 --> 00:02:36.960 for a comedian, maybe. Maybe on the surface, 00:02:37.139 --> 00:02:39.520 but it isn't accidental, I don't think. His comedy 00:02:39.520 --> 00:02:42.919 often relied on this rigorous but totally absurd 00:02:42.919 --> 00:02:46.360 internal logic. like a mathematical proof or 00:02:46.360 --> 00:02:49.060 some philosophical treatise, where the conclusion, 00:02:49.280 --> 00:02:51.879 however ridiculous it is... It follows naturally 00:02:51.879 --> 00:02:54.159 from the nonsensical premises he just laid out. 00:02:54.280 --> 00:02:56.939 Precisely. He wasn't aiming for the universal 00:02:56.939 --> 00:02:59.599 quick laugh all the time. He was aiming for that 00:02:59.599 --> 00:03:03.530 specific, really rewarding, aha... The one you 00:03:03.530 --> 00:03:05.409 earned by following the thread. Yeah, earned 00:03:05.409 --> 00:03:07.889 by those who followed that logical thread right 00:03:07.889 --> 00:03:10.610 into absurdity with him. OK, so let's unpack 00:03:10.610 --> 00:03:14.250 where this fascinating, complex voice even originated. 00:03:14.969 --> 00:03:17.610 We have to start back in Quebec City, Quebec. 00:03:18.270 --> 00:03:22.050 Norm MacDonald, born there October 17th, 1959. 00:03:22.409 --> 00:03:24.889 Right. And both of his parents were Anglophone 00:03:24.889 --> 00:03:27.949 teachers, English speakers, which immediately 00:03:27.949 --> 00:03:30.629 put him in a kind of minority cultural position 00:03:30.629 --> 00:03:33.229 within his. largely French -speaking hometown. 00:03:33.569 --> 00:03:35.949 That context, the Anglophone thing in Quebec 00:03:35.949 --> 00:03:39.270 City, it feels pretty crucial. Oh, it is. Our 00:03:39.270 --> 00:03:41.689 sources highlight that his father actually prevented 00:03:41.689 --> 00:03:44.289 him from learning French. He insisted the family 00:03:44.289 --> 00:03:47.189 speak only English at home. Wow. So that deliberate 00:03:47.189 --> 00:03:49.389 isolation. Yeah, it kind of set him up from an 00:03:49.389 --> 00:03:51.889 early age as a slight outsider, didn't it? Cultivating 00:03:51.889 --> 00:03:54.150 that detached observational perspective that 00:03:54.150 --> 00:03:56.729 really defined his comedy later on. He was always 00:03:56.729 --> 00:03:58.879 watching the world from a slight remove. In his 00:03:58.879 --> 00:04:00.699 academic history, it certainly didn't scream 00:04:00.699 --> 00:04:03.580 future performer. He went to Quebec High School, 00:04:03.680 --> 00:04:05.240 but later claimed he dropped out of Gloucester 00:04:05.240 --> 00:04:07.280 High School at 16. But the truth, apparently, 00:04:07.419 --> 00:04:10.020 is that he graduated remarkably early, just 14 00:04:10.020 --> 00:04:14.520 years old. 14? Seriously? Yeah. That age discrepancy 00:04:14.520 --> 00:04:16.620 is just classic norm, though, isn't it? Blurring 00:04:16.620 --> 00:04:18.800 biographical facts, maybe for comedic effect, 00:04:19.060 --> 00:04:21.500 maybe just cause. Huh? Probably. Regardless, 00:04:21.759 --> 00:04:24.339 that early graduation, it does highlight this. 00:04:24.750 --> 00:04:27.170 profound restlessness, I think, and intellectual 00:04:27.170 --> 00:04:30.110 energy. He entered Carleton University at 16, 00:04:30.350 --> 00:04:32.449 pursuing mathematics and philosophy. Only to 00:04:32.449 --> 00:04:35.449 drop out. Right. Then he briefly tried journalism 00:04:35.449 --> 00:04:38.389 and broadcasting television at Algonquin College. 00:04:39.269 --> 00:04:40.850 He was actually following his older brother, 00:04:40.930 --> 00:04:42.810 Neal McDonald, who became a pretty prominent 00:04:42.810 --> 00:04:44.529 journalist. But these were all just temporary 00:04:44.529 --> 00:04:47.089 stops. And before the bright lights, you know, 00:04:47.089 --> 00:04:50.170 New York, L .A. Yeah. He was doing manual labor, 00:04:50.329 --> 00:04:52.889 stuff that seems totally disconnected from the 00:04:52.889 --> 00:04:55.810 cerebral comic we remember. Like he worked as 00:04:55.810 --> 00:04:58.209 a choker man for a logging company. It's a jarring 00:04:58.209 --> 00:05:00.610 image, isn't it? The deadpan master wrangling 00:05:00.610 --> 00:05:03.629 logs. But maybe it's actually key to his grounded 00:05:03.629 --> 00:05:06.149 persona. How do you mean? Well, that mix of... 00:05:06.379 --> 00:05:08.620 Rigorous intellectual curiosity, the philosophy, 00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:11.720 the math combined with hard physical labor. It 00:05:11.720 --> 00:05:14.519 might have given him that distinct folksy grounded 00:05:14.519 --> 00:05:17.800 tone. A tone that often provided this deceptive 00:05:17.800 --> 00:05:20.860 kind of calming counterpoint. To the truly brutal 00:05:20.860 --> 00:05:23.699 black comedy hidden inside the jokes. Exactly. 00:05:23.699 --> 00:05:27.160 So his actual jump into stand up started in Ottawa 00:05:27.160 --> 00:05:31.000 in 1985. Yik Yik's Amateur Nights. And here's 00:05:31.000 --> 00:05:34.120 a surprising fact about this future legend. His 00:05:34.120 --> 00:05:37.120 very first performance apparently went OK, but 00:05:37.120 --> 00:05:40.220 he was so overwhelmed by the intensity he bolted, 00:05:40.240 --> 00:05:43.139 ran out of the club, swore he'd never do it again. 00:05:43.279 --> 00:05:46.360 Wow. It really speaks volumes about the anxiety 00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:49.319 that can often underlie, you know, profound talent. 00:05:49.480 --> 00:05:52.639 The club owner, Howard Wagman, actually had to 00:05:52.639 --> 00:05:54.759 track him down and persuade him, really convince 00:05:54.759 --> 00:05:57.160 him to come back. But once he committed, the 00:05:57.160 --> 00:06:00.170 trajectory was immediate. By 1986, after performing 00:06:00.170 --> 00:06:01.930 at the Just for Laughs Festival in Montreal, 00:06:02.329 --> 00:06:04.509 he was already being called one of this country's 00:06:04.509 --> 00:06:06.550 hottest comics. Pretty fast rise. Very fast. 00:06:06.750 --> 00:06:09.410 And this quick success led to some crucial U 00:06:09.410 --> 00:06:12.269 .S. exposure pretty early on. His network TV 00:06:12.269 --> 00:06:14.990 debut was, believe it or not, The Pat Sajak Show 00:06:14.990 --> 00:06:18.250 in 1989. The Pat Sajak Show. Yeah. But the real 00:06:18.250 --> 00:06:20.069 launchpad, the one that mattered, was Late Night 00:06:20.069 --> 00:06:23.310 with David Letterman in May 1990. Ah, the Letterman 00:06:23.310 --> 00:06:25.050 connection. That makes sense. That appearance 00:06:25.050 --> 00:06:27.769 was just foundational. Letterman immediately... 00:06:27.790 --> 00:06:31.230 recognized a kindred spirit in norm's dry almost 00:06:31.230 --> 00:06:33.970 anti -comedy approach right letterman became 00:06:33.970 --> 00:06:36.290 this fierce advocate he said later if they could 00:06:36.290 --> 00:06:38.029 have had him on every single week they would 00:06:38.029 --> 00:06:41.129 have that stamp of approval was just crucial 00:06:41.129 --> 00:06:43.769 for his next steps in the u .s comedy world and 00:06:43.769 --> 00:06:45.550 those next steps were some quick writing gigs 00:06:45.550 --> 00:06:47.649 he wrote for the short run of the dennis miller 00:06:47.649 --> 00:06:51.959 show in 92 and then He got a writing position 00:06:51.959 --> 00:06:55.839 on Roseanne during the 92 -93 season, a job he 00:06:55.839 --> 00:06:57.879 famously quit. To join the cast of Saturday Night 00:06:57.879 --> 00:07:00.720 Live, yeah. But before we jump fully into SNL, 00:07:00.779 --> 00:07:03.519 let's pause for a sec on his view of Canadian 00:07:03.519 --> 00:07:06.079 versus U .S. comedy. Because he had a pretty 00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:08.720 strong take on it. He really did. Norm's perspective 00:07:08.720 --> 00:07:10.660 was basically that Canadian stand -ups were, 00:07:10.800 --> 00:07:13.860 generally speaking, superior. Yeah. Better comics. 00:07:14.019 --> 00:07:16.300 Why? What was his reasoning? Because they viewed 00:07:16.300 --> 00:07:18.439 stand -up as an end in itself. It was their entire 00:07:18.439 --> 00:07:20.959 lives, you know, focused purely on the craft 00:07:20.959 --> 00:07:23.120 of stand -up. Right, whereas he believed U .S. 00:07:23.120 --> 00:07:25.540 stand -ups often sought merely as a springboard, 00:07:25.660 --> 00:07:28.759 just a way to get to film or TV. Exactly. And 00:07:28.759 --> 00:07:31.399 that distinction, it reveals his deep reverence 00:07:31.399 --> 00:07:34.040 for the craft itself. For him, stand -up comedy 00:07:34.040 --> 00:07:36.279 was the highest aspiration, not just some stepping 00:07:36.279 --> 00:07:38.980 stone. That purity of intention, maybe that's 00:07:38.980 --> 00:07:40.899 what informed everything he did on SNL. I think 00:07:40.899 --> 00:07:44.079 so. And that leads us perfectly into part two. 00:07:44.480 --> 00:07:47.680 The whole SNL weekend update saga, a period that 00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:49.879 really defined his public image, running roughly 00:07:49.879 --> 00:07:53.800 from 93 to 98. He joined SNL in 1993. He was 00:07:53.800 --> 00:07:55.819 pulling double duty, right? Writer and cast member 00:07:55.819 --> 00:07:58.800 for five seasons total. And while he has some 00:07:58.800 --> 00:08:02.439 memorable impressions, his Bob Dole. Remember 00:08:02.439 --> 00:08:05.100 that during the 96 election, just disheveled, 00:08:05.100 --> 00:08:08.120 defeated. Yeah, the Dole was fantastic. But he 00:08:08.120 --> 00:08:10.740 is truly iconic for his time anchoring weekend 00:08:10.740 --> 00:08:13.160 update. He held that chair from 1994 onwards 00:08:13.160 --> 00:08:15.480 for about three and a half seasons. And his update 00:08:15.480 --> 00:08:18.040 was, well, it was chaotic. It was challenging, 00:08:18.339 --> 00:08:20.899 often baffling, frankly, to mainstream viewers. 00:08:21.100 --> 00:08:23.300 Which is exactly why his diehard fans love it 00:08:23.300 --> 00:08:26.529 so much. Precisely. He introduced these signature 00:08:26.529 --> 00:08:29.490 eccentric elements that just defined his time 00:08:29.490 --> 00:08:31.009 there. We're talking about running jokes that 00:08:31.009 --> 00:08:34.149 were deeply inappropriate, often involving things 00:08:34.149 --> 00:08:37.389 like prison rape and crack whores. He really 00:08:37.389 --> 00:08:39.370 dared the audience to be uncomfortable. He did. 00:08:39.470 --> 00:08:41.669 And his commitment to the non sequitur was just. 00:08:42.710 --> 00:08:44.870 Unparalleled, he'd often finish delivering some 00:08:44.870 --> 00:08:47.789 piece of really shocking news only to suddenly 00:08:47.789 --> 00:08:50.370 pull out a compact tape recorder. The tape recorder. 00:08:50.870 --> 00:08:53.950 Rewind it and deliver a personal, often totally 00:08:53.950 --> 00:08:57.330 mundane, note to self. That little bit of stage 00:08:57.330 --> 00:09:01.419 business, it just encapsulated the whole. absurd 00:09:01.419 --> 00:09:03.720 commitment to the anti -joke, didn't it? It really 00:09:03.720 --> 00:09:05.720 did. But if we're defining the update era, we 00:09:05.720 --> 00:09:07.480 absolutely have to talk about the king of his 00:09:07.480 --> 00:09:09.940 non -sequiturs, Frank Stallone. Oh my God, Frank 00:09:09.940 --> 00:09:12.539 Stallone. He constantly blamed Frank Stallone, 00:09:12.580 --> 00:09:15.159 Stallone's often forgotten brother, for literally 00:09:15.159 --> 00:09:19.679 every societal ill. High unemployment. Frank 00:09:19.679 --> 00:09:22.919 Stallone. Toxic waste gums. Frank Stallone. Let's 00:09:22.919 --> 00:09:24.559 just take a second on the mechanics of that joke 00:09:24.559 --> 00:09:27.460 because it's pure, beautiful non -sequitur. A 00:09:27.460 --> 00:09:29.580 non -sequitur literally does not follow, right? 00:09:29.950 --> 00:09:32.429 It's a conclusion or a statement that just doesn't 00:09:32.429 --> 00:09:35.269 logically connect to what came before. The joke's 00:09:35.269 --> 00:09:38.250 success relies entirely on the unexpected absurdity 00:09:38.250 --> 00:09:41.129 of dragging in some totally unconnected person. 00:09:41.269 --> 00:09:43.450 And Frank Salone was the perfect target for that 00:09:43.450 --> 00:09:46.409 randomness. He really was. Norm would read a 00:09:46.409 --> 00:09:49.789 story about, say, a budget crisis in Congress 00:09:49.789 --> 00:09:52.529 and then, without missing a beat, just deadpan. 00:09:52.769 --> 00:09:55.870 Or so the Germans would have us believe. Oh, 00:09:55.870 --> 00:09:57.529 wait, no, that was a different running gag. He'd 00:09:57.529 --> 00:09:59.210 blame Frank Stallone. Right, right, the Frank 00:09:59.210 --> 00:10:01.570 Stallone one. It was entirely random. And what's 00:10:01.570 --> 00:10:04.159 amazing is that Frank Stallone himself... according 00:10:04.159 --> 00:10:06.639 to the sources, took zero offense. Yeah, he got 00:10:06.639 --> 00:10:09.220 it. He recognized Norm wasn't actually attacking 00:10:09.220 --> 00:10:11.480 him, but just using his name as the ultimate 00:10:11.480 --> 00:10:13.860 punchline for randomness itself. When did he 00:10:13.860 --> 00:10:17.200 stop? Norm only stopped the joke in 1997. And 00:10:17.200 --> 00:10:19.600 apparently only because Sylvester Stallone, when 00:10:19.600 --> 00:10:21.860 he was guest hosting SNL, personally asked him 00:10:21.860 --> 00:10:25.059 to. Politely, but still. Okay, so here's where 00:10:25.059 --> 00:10:27.860 the conversation always turns, right? The controversial 00:10:27.860 --> 00:10:31.600 jokes and the inevitable pushback that really 00:10:31.600 --> 00:10:34.549 marked his time there. Norm was absolutely fearless 00:10:34.549 --> 00:10:37.769 in embracing black comedy, even when targeting 00:10:37.769 --> 00:10:40.529 really sensitive or high -profile people. Yeah, 00:10:40.649 --> 00:10:42.529 the relentless jokes about Michael Jackson are 00:10:42.529 --> 00:10:45.690 a really clear flashpoint. After Jackson's divorce 00:10:45.690 --> 00:10:48.649 from Lisa Marie Presley, Norm consistently referred 00:10:48.649 --> 00:10:51.929 to him on air as a homosexual pedophile. Just 00:10:51.929 --> 00:10:55.350 brutal. And when Jackson was hospitalized, Norm 00:10:55.350 --> 00:10:57.289 remarked that he had decorated his room with 00:10:57.289 --> 00:10:59.490 Shirley Temple photographs. Then he delivered 00:10:59.490 --> 00:11:02.340 the follow -up punchline. But don't get any ideas. 00:11:02.600 --> 00:11:05.379 Michael Jackson is a homosexual pedophile. Just 00:11:05.379 --> 00:11:07.659 driving it home. He knew exactly how far he could 00:11:07.659 --> 00:11:09.460 push it, didn't he? There was another moment, 00:11:09.480 --> 00:11:11.740 too, that drew really sharp criticism. 1996, 00:11:12.259 --> 00:11:14.120 after John Lauder was sentenced for the murder 00:11:14.120 --> 00:11:16.419 of Brandon, Tina and others. Right. Nor made 00:11:16.419 --> 00:11:18.840 this incredibly dark joke suggesting that basically 00:11:18.840 --> 00:11:21.100 everyone involved in that horrific story should 00:11:21.100 --> 00:11:23.519 die. Yeah. Just a blanket statement. And the 00:11:23.519 --> 00:11:26.460 reaction. That specific comment led to immediate 00:11:26.460 --> 00:11:30.059 backlash from activist groups like. the transsexual 00:11:30.059 --> 00:11:32.860 menace, they actually threatened to picket SNL. 00:11:32.940 --> 00:11:36.340 Wow. So NBC felt compelled to review the broadcast, 00:11:36.679 --> 00:11:38.759 and they agreed the line was inappropriate. They 00:11:38.759 --> 00:11:41.399 promised preventative measures. It just demonstrates 00:11:41.399 --> 00:11:44.129 that constant tension he fostered. pushing the 00:11:44.129 --> 00:11:46.470 boundary until the network institution itself 00:11:46.470 --> 00:11:49.230 had to pull him back. But the ultimate, the career 00:11:49.230 --> 00:11:51.269 defining controversy, the one that became this 00:11:51.269 --> 00:11:54.090 media narrative that honestly overshadows almost 00:11:54.090 --> 00:11:56.789 everything else. Yeah. That was his firing as 00:11:56.789 --> 00:12:01.029 the weekend update anchor in early 1998. Officially, 00:12:01.029 --> 00:12:03.950 the story was NBC West Coast President Don Ulmeier 00:12:03.950 --> 00:12:06.250 cited declining ratings and a drop off in quality. 00:12:06.470 --> 00:12:08.389 Colin Quinn replaced him. That was the line. 00:12:08.490 --> 00:12:10.889 That was the official line. Right. But Norm and 00:12:10.889 --> 00:12:12.769 his supporters, including his longtime writer. 00:12:12.970 --> 00:12:14.950 Jim Downey, who got fired at the exact same time 00:12:14.950 --> 00:12:17.590 they insisted the true reason was his unrelenting, 00:12:17.610 --> 00:12:20.629 highly personal mockery of O .J. Simpson during 00:12:20.629 --> 00:12:23.210 and after the murder trial. He was just hammering 00:12:23.210 --> 00:12:26.110 O .J. constantly, uncompromisingly calling him 00:12:26.110 --> 00:12:28.590 a murderer on network television week after week. 00:12:28.789 --> 00:12:31.110 And this is where the personal really bleeds 00:12:31.110 --> 00:12:33.610 into the professional, right? Ohmeyer wasn't 00:12:33.610 --> 00:12:36.129 just some network exec. He was a close friend 00:12:36.129 --> 00:12:38.809 and a vocal supporter of O .J. Simpson. So this 00:12:38.809 --> 00:12:41.230 wasn't just about comedy styles clashing. No 00:12:41.230 --> 00:12:44.720 way. It was basically an ideological and personal 00:12:44.720 --> 00:12:47.200 war being waged right there from the news desk. 00:12:47.500 --> 00:12:50.500 Downey even publicly pointed out that Allmire 00:12:50.500 --> 00:12:52.799 threw a party for the jurors who acquitted Simpson. 00:12:52.919 --> 00:12:54.960 That's how close they were. The firing just blew 00:12:54.960 --> 00:12:57.539 up. It was a massive public media thing. And 00:12:57.539 --> 00:13:00.080 Norm refused to let it go quietly. Not at all. 00:13:00.179 --> 00:13:02.299 He immediately went on Letterman. He went on 00:13:02.299 --> 00:13:05.519 The Howard Streen Show. He essentially used competing 00:13:05.519 --> 00:13:08.360 networks to air all the dirty laundry and continue 00:13:08.360 --> 00:13:10.919 the attack on Allmire. Which just cemented his 00:13:10.919 --> 00:13:13.159 persona, right? The comedian willing to torch 00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:15.240 his own career for a point of integrity, or at 00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:17.799 least for the joke. Exactly. And Allmire's retaliation 00:13:17.799 --> 00:13:19.580 was intense. It went beyond just the firing. 00:13:19.740 --> 00:13:23.240 In June 98, Allmire actually blocked NBC from 00:13:23.240 --> 00:13:26.070 airing advertisements for Norm's new movie. dirty 00:13:26.070 --> 00:13:29.429 work seriously yeah he accused norm of disparaging 00:13:29.429 --> 00:13:32.210 nbc on those competitor shows on letterman and 00:13:32.210 --> 00:13:35.769 stern the ad ban during snl itself was only lifted 00:13:35.769 --> 00:13:39.210 after robert wright who was olmeyer's boss stepped 00:13:39.210 --> 00:13:42.850 in wow so the war got really nasty it did norm 00:13:42.850 --> 00:13:45.370 went to the daily news and called olmeyer a liar 00:13:45.370 --> 00:13:47.929 and a thug but he was careful to emphasize that 00:13:47.929 --> 00:13:50.490 his issue was solely with olmeyer who he saw 00:13:50.490 --> 00:13:53.370 as trying to censor him not with lauren michaels 00:13:53.370 --> 00:13:56.129 or snl itself who he maintain we're supportive 00:13:56.129 --> 00:13:57.990 of him but here's the interesting thing connecting 00:13:57.990 --> 00:14:01.860 this to the bigger picture years later Norm offered 00:14:01.860 --> 00:14:04.500 this really fascinating kind of nuanced reflection. 00:14:04.899 --> 00:14:08.080 It complicated that simple, it was all O .J. 00:14:08.139 --> 00:14:10.299 narrative. Right. He eventually conceded that 00:14:10.299 --> 00:14:13.100 maybe his removal was less about O .J. specifically 00:14:13.100 --> 00:14:16.320 and more about just long -term insubordination 00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:18.500 being difficult. That's a crucial admission, 00:14:18.679 --> 00:14:21.379 isn't it? It is. He acknowledged he often resisted 00:14:21.379 --> 00:14:23.759 marching orders. He recalled a time when he ignored 00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:25.919 Lorne Michaels' concern about a potential Michael 00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:29.340 Jackson lawsuit. Lorne was worried. Norm did 00:14:29.340 --> 00:14:32.059 the joke anyway. And he admitted his update was 00:14:32.059 --> 00:14:34.759 explicitly not designed to be audience pleasing 00:14:34.759 --> 00:14:38.039 or warm. He prioritized the unique integrity 00:14:38.039 --> 00:14:41.179 of his own comedic voice way above network demands. 00:14:41.539 --> 00:14:43.700 So the O .J. stuff might have just been the final 00:14:43.700 --> 00:14:45.980 straw, not the sole reason. That seems plausible. 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:48.500 It pushed things over the edge after a pattern 00:14:48.500 --> 00:14:50.480 of maybe pushing back too hard. Which brings 00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:53.299 us to one final defiant flourish from the whole 00:14:53.299 --> 00:14:57.259 SNL era. When he came back to host SNL on October 00:14:57.259 --> 00:15:01.539 23, 1999. His opening monologue was just pure 00:15:01.539 --> 00:15:04.039 norm. What did he say? He joked that the only 00:15:04.039 --> 00:15:06.740 reason they asked him back was because the show 00:15:06.740 --> 00:15:09.440 has gotten really bad since he left. Just displaying 00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:12.159 that sustained resentment, that anti -establishment 00:15:12.159 --> 00:15:14.799 stance right there on their stage. Ah, that's 00:15:14.799 --> 00:15:16.700 amazing. A full circle moment using the very 00:15:16.700 --> 00:15:18.799 platform that tried to silence him to critique 00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:21.559 its current state. That defiance really became 00:15:21.559 --> 00:15:24.059 the foundation for his post -SNL creative work. 00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:25.919 And that output started immediately with what 00:15:25.919 --> 00:15:28.100 some people call the revenge comedy, his movie. 00:15:28.429 --> 00:15:31.389 Dirty Work. Yeah, 1998. He co -wrote it and starred 00:15:31.389 --> 00:15:34.190 in it. Directed by Bob Saget, co -starring Artie 00:15:34.190 --> 00:15:36.929 Lange. And it featured Chris Farley in his last 00:15:36.929 --> 00:15:38.870 film role before he died. Yeah, that's right. 00:15:39.049 --> 00:15:42.250 And Dirty Work really embodied that revenge spirit, 00:15:42.429 --> 00:15:44.909 didn't it? It was chaotic, often pretty lowbrow. 00:15:44.970 --> 00:15:47.590 It felt like a direct counterstatement to the 00:15:47.590 --> 00:15:50.850 polished focus group stuff NBC might have preferred 00:15:50.850 --> 00:15:53.529 him to do. And the film was dedicated to Farley's 00:15:53.529 --> 00:15:57.690 memory, which added this poignant, almost anarchic... 00:15:57.769 --> 00:16:00.149 quality to the whole thing. Definitely. After 00:16:00.149 --> 00:16:02.450 the film, he did try to fit into the more conventional 00:16:02.450 --> 00:16:05.149 structure of network TV. He headlined the Norm 00:16:05.149 --> 00:16:07.750 Show later. They just called it Norm. That ran 00:16:07.750 --> 00:16:11.610 for three seasons on ABC from 99 to 2001. Which 00:16:11.610 --> 00:16:13.769 is a respectable run, actually, especially for 00:16:13.769 --> 00:16:15.769 a comedian who had just been publicly branded 00:16:15.769 --> 00:16:18.470 this insubordinate outsider. It is. But then 00:16:18.470 --> 00:16:20.610 he tried another sitcom later, A Minute with 00:16:20.610 --> 00:16:23.750 Stan Hooper, on Fox in 2003. And this is where 00:16:23.750 --> 00:16:25.629 we really see the limits of trying to fit his 00:16:25.629 --> 00:16:28.289 style into the mainstream. sitcom box. How long 00:16:28.289 --> 00:16:30.570 did that last? Cancelled after only six episodes. 00:16:30.870 --> 00:16:33.529 Ouch. Why do you think that failed so quickly 00:16:33.529 --> 00:16:36.370 when the other one had a decent run? Well, if 00:16:36.370 --> 00:16:38.610 you look at the format, right? Network sitcoms 00:16:38.610 --> 00:16:41.250 rely on predictable character beats, escalating 00:16:41.250 --> 00:16:44.340 situational humor. laughs per minute that sort 00:16:44.340 --> 00:16:47.080 of thing yeah norm's comedy especially his delivery 00:16:47.080 --> 00:16:49.799 is kind of antithetical to that yeah he specializes 00:16:49.799 --> 00:16:52.259 in deflating situations not building them up 00:16:52.259 --> 00:16:55.379 his pace is slow his characterizations are eccentric 00:16:55.379 --> 00:16:59.340 and his humor actively resists that necessary 00:16:59.340 --> 00:17:02.730 warmth or relatability you need for mass audience 00:17:02.730 --> 00:17:05.049 appeal on a Friday night, you know? Right. His 00:17:05.049 --> 00:17:07.170 genius just didn't translate into the required 00:17:07.170 --> 00:17:09.890 predictability of that format. Exactly. So that 00:17:09.890 --> 00:17:12.230 failure kind of pushed him into other creative 00:17:12.230 --> 00:17:14.589 avenues. And this is where his surprising versatility 00:17:14.589 --> 00:17:16.750 as a voice actor really became apparent. Yeah, 00:17:16.789 --> 00:17:18.650 like Lucky the Dog in the Dr. Dolittle movies. 00:17:18.789 --> 00:17:20.970 Right. Multiple Dr. Dolittle films starting in 00:17:20.970 --> 00:17:23.970 98, which introduced his voice to this entirely 00:17:23.970 --> 00:17:26.509 new family -friendly audience, which is kind 00:17:26.509 --> 00:17:28.869 of hilarious in itself. It really is. And for 00:17:28.869 --> 00:17:32.210 fans of more... adult animation. His voice work 00:17:32.210 --> 00:17:35.250 is iconic. He was Pigeon on Mike Tyson Mysteries. 00:17:35.289 --> 00:17:39.329 Oh, Pigeon was amazing. 69 episodes from 2014 00:17:39.329 --> 00:17:43.390 to 2020. Pigeon, the wisecracking, super cynical 00:17:43.390 --> 00:17:46.430 sidekick. It was basically Norm's persona just 00:17:46.430 --> 00:17:48.910 transferred directly onto a cartoon bird. Totally. 00:17:49.069 --> 00:17:51.309 He also had other roles, like Genie Norm on The 00:17:51.309 --> 00:17:54.089 Fairly Odd Parents. And interestingly, he was 00:17:54.089 --> 00:17:56.569 the original voice of Death on Family Guy way 00:17:56.569 --> 00:17:59.130 back in 2000. Before Norm Crosby took over, yeah. 00:17:59.509 --> 00:18:01.450 What's fascinating, though, is that his final 00:18:01.450 --> 00:18:04.069 performance was also a voice role, one he completed 00:18:04.069 --> 00:18:07.279 posthumously. Yeff it. The gelatinous engineer 00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:10.579 on the Orville. Ah, right. It's a remarkable 00:18:10.579 --> 00:18:12.480 range when you think about it, stretching from 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:16.059 family movies to really adult comedy to genre 00:18:16.059 --> 00:18:18.619 sci -fi. It shows this adaptability that may 00:18:18.619 --> 00:18:20.960 be contrasted with his rigid stand -up persona. 00:18:21.319 --> 00:18:23.299 He also slipped into live -action cameos here 00:18:23.299 --> 00:18:25.440 and there. He played Michael Richards, uncredited 00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:27.539 in the Andy Kaufman biopic Man on the Moon in 00:18:27.539 --> 00:18:30.529 99. Right, right. Then the 2010 saw his career 00:18:30.529 --> 00:18:32.890 shift again. He found this perfect home, really, 00:18:33.009 --> 00:18:35.250 in the sort of nascent digital media landscape, 00:18:35.390 --> 00:18:37.890 which suited his deliberate pace and his discursive 00:18:37.890 --> 00:18:40.250 style much better than network TV did. Like the 00:18:40.250 --> 00:18:42.349 sports show with Norm Macdonald on Comedy Central 00:18:42.349 --> 00:18:45.269 in 2011. Yeah, which was basically a satirical 00:18:45.269 --> 00:18:47.990 sports version of The Daily Show. Fun idea. But 00:18:47.990 --> 00:18:50.529 the real sweet spot, the format that seemed to 00:18:50.529 --> 00:18:53.319 give him maximum freedom... was his talk show 00:18:53.319 --> 00:18:55.940 concept, starting with Norm Macdonald Live. Yes. 00:18:56.200 --> 00:19:00.400 2013 to 2017. That video podcast with his sidekick, 00:19:00.460 --> 00:19:03.539 Adam Egott, filmed on this notoriously low budget 00:19:03.539 --> 00:19:05.720 set. It was definitely rough around the edges, 00:19:05.859 --> 00:19:08.549 but it got... overwhelmingly positive reviews. 00:19:08.910 --> 00:19:11.789 People loved the chaotic, unpredictable energy 00:19:11.789 --> 00:19:13.710 and the depth of the conversation. It was the 00:19:13.710 --> 00:19:15.910 complete opposite of the polished, pre -scripted 00:19:15.910 --> 00:19:18.009 late night interview, wasn't it? Totally. He'd 00:19:18.009 --> 00:19:20.990 engage guests in these meandering, often really 00:19:20.990 --> 00:19:23.589 awkward, but surprisingly profound conversations 00:19:23.589 --> 00:19:25.650 that just felt utterly genuine. You never knew 00:19:25.650 --> 00:19:27.549 where it was going. And that platform eventually 00:19:27.549 --> 00:19:30.210 evolved into the Netflix series, Norm Macdonald 00:19:30.210 --> 00:19:33.400 Had a Show, in 2018. still maintained that low 00:19:33.400 --> 00:19:35.619 budget, unpredictable vibe. He also ventured 00:19:35.619 --> 00:19:37.619 into literature with Based on a True Story in 00:19:37.619 --> 00:19:41.660 2016, and he deliberately marketed it as a comic 00:19:41.660 --> 00:19:44.569 novel, not a memoir. Because he knew he was going 00:19:44.569 --> 00:19:47.210 to fill it with elaborate falsehoods and totally 00:19:47.210 --> 00:19:50.069 fictionalized accounts, it was another layer 00:19:50.069 --> 00:19:53.529 of performance. And it was a huge success. Debuted 00:19:53.529 --> 00:19:56.410 on the New York Times bestsellers list, it underscored 00:19:56.410 --> 00:19:59.009 the fan demand for access to his interior life. 00:19:59.109 --> 00:20:01.589 Even he delivered it wrapped entirely in fiction. 00:20:01.809 --> 00:20:03.750 Before we move into the personal contradictions, 00:20:03.829 --> 00:20:05.890 we really have to talk about his last stand -up 00:20:05.890 --> 00:20:07.769 appearance on the lead show with David Letterman. 00:20:07.849 --> 00:20:11.250 May 15, 2015. It was Letterman's farewell run. 00:20:11.410 --> 00:20:13.539 Oh, that was such a moment. Norm's performance 00:20:13.539 --> 00:20:16.559 provided this glimpse of pure, unmasked emotion 00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:18.890 you so rarely saw from him. The vulnerability 00:20:18.890 --> 00:20:21.650 was just stunning. He was doing a classic Norm 00:20:21.650 --> 00:20:24.289 shaggy dog story, but then halfway through, he 00:20:24.289 --> 00:20:27.410 just stopped. He broke into tears. And he told 00:20:27.410 --> 00:20:29.289 Letterman, who he first saw perform when Norm 00:20:29.289 --> 00:20:31.789 himself was only 13, that he truly loved him. 00:20:31.930 --> 00:20:35.349 Wow. That profound honesty right there, contrasted 00:20:35.349 --> 00:20:37.950 with the mask of his deadpan, it just resonated 00:20:37.950 --> 00:20:41.509 so deeply. Revealed the deep affection and respect 00:20:41.509 --> 00:20:43.589 he held for his mentors and for the tradition 00:20:43.589 --> 00:20:46.069 of comedy itself. And it's that vulnerability, 00:20:46.210 --> 00:20:48.829 maybe, that leads... leads us squarely into part 00:20:48.829 --> 00:20:52.369 four, the personal contradictions and views that 00:20:52.369 --> 00:20:54.450 reveal the deep thinker beneath the jokester 00:20:54.450 --> 00:20:57.529 persona. Yeah, we've established his comedic 00:20:57.529 --> 00:20:59.990 influences, right? Bob Newhart, Sam Kinison, 00:21:00.190 --> 00:21:02.450 Rodney Dangerfield. But when you couple those 00:21:02.450 --> 00:21:06.289 with his literary influences... Leo Tolstoy and 00:21:06.289 --> 00:21:09.049 Anton Chekhov. Tolstoy and Chekhov. Seriously. 00:21:09.309 --> 00:21:11.829 Seriously. And suddenly you see the blueprint 00:21:11.829 --> 00:21:15.289 for his long -form patient storytelling. He was 00:21:15.289 --> 00:21:17.690 using the narrative structure of a great 19th 00:21:17.690 --> 00:21:19.690 century author where the journey and all the 00:21:19.690 --> 00:21:21.769 digressions are actually more important than 00:21:21.769 --> 00:21:24.029 the final payoff or punchline. That's the link 00:21:24.029 --> 00:21:26.400 to the Shaggy Dog story, isn't it? Tolstoy and 00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:29.140 Chekhov are masters of that slow, deliberate 00:21:29.140 --> 00:21:31.740 balled up of context and detail. Absolutely. 00:21:32.099 --> 00:21:35.079 A shaggy dog story requires the listener to invest 00:21:35.079 --> 00:21:37.220 in the sheer commitment of the narrator, just 00:21:37.220 --> 00:21:39.740 like a novel does. The reward isn't some quick 00:21:39.740 --> 00:21:42.740 joke. The reward is the sheer absurdity of the 00:21:42.740 --> 00:21:45.359 journey itself, often ending with a non -punchline 00:21:45.359 --> 00:21:47.940 or an anticlimax. That's the point. The intellectual 00:21:47.940 --> 00:21:50.910 depth was always there, under the surface. Always. 00:21:51.130 --> 00:21:53.349 And it also informed his views on the state of 00:21:53.349 --> 00:21:56.589 modern comedy. He expressed real distaste for 00:21:56.589 --> 00:21:59.130 what he called the low -hanging fruit of constant 00:21:59.130 --> 00:22:01.990 topical jokes. He specifically cited all the 00:22:01.990 --> 00:22:04.769 Donald Trump jokes. What did you prefer? Humor 00:22:04.769 --> 00:22:06.849 that aimed for something more universal, more 00:22:06.849 --> 00:22:09.670 enduringly absurd, rather than just temporary 00:22:09.670 --> 00:22:12.470 political relevance. Okay, moving into his personal 00:22:12.470 --> 00:22:15.049 battles. One of the most critical revelations, 00:22:15.130 --> 00:22:18.109 especially later on, was his severe sustained 00:22:18.109 --> 00:22:20.890 battle with gambling addiction. Yeah, this was 00:22:20.890 --> 00:22:23.670 serious. He revealed he lost all his money gambling 00:22:23.670 --> 00:22:27.329 not once, but three separate times, drove him 00:22:27.329 --> 00:22:30.049 to bankruptcy twice. The scale of the loss is 00:22:30.049 --> 00:22:32.250 just staggering. It underlines how severe the 00:22:32.250 --> 00:22:34.849 crisis was for him. He cited his largest single 00:22:34.849 --> 00:22:38.529 loss as a devastating $400 ,000. Wow. This wasn't 00:22:38.529 --> 00:22:40.670 some casual vice. It was a recurring financial 00:22:40.670 --> 00:22:43.269 catastrophe that deeply impacted his life, his 00:22:43.269 --> 00:22:46.029 career, everything. And what's fascinating is 00:22:46.029 --> 00:22:48.690 how that vice apparently ended, or at least lessened. 00:22:48.970 --> 00:22:51.710 He claimed the 2006 shutdown of U .S. online 00:22:51.710 --> 00:22:54.769 poker kind of saved my life. Because prior to 00:22:54.769 --> 00:22:56.569 that, he said he was constantly playing up to 00:22:56.569 --> 00:22:59.410 20 limit Hold 'em games simultaneously online. 00:22:59.730 --> 00:23:01.809 Just grinding himself into the ground with the 00:23:01.809 --> 00:23:05.609 intensity of it. 20 games at once. Wow. Despite 00:23:05.609 --> 00:23:08.009 the addiction though he also managed some modest 00:23:08.009 --> 00:23:10.529 professional success in the poker world. It shows 00:23:10.529 --> 00:23:12.809 how deeply engaged he was with the game. Like 00:23:12.809 --> 00:23:15.410 actual tournament success. Yeah, he cashed for 00:23:15.410 --> 00:23:19.329 over $20 ,000 in a tournament in 2006 and made 00:23:19.329 --> 00:23:23.369 nearly $15 ,000 in the 2007 World Series of Poker. 00:23:23.529 --> 00:23:26.329 It highlights that competitive mathematical side 00:23:26.329 --> 00:23:29.069 of his mind again, the side drawn to the calculated 00:23:29.069 --> 00:23:31.509 risks of the game. Okay, now we have to address 00:23:31.509 --> 00:23:34.250 maybe the biggest contradiction of his public 00:23:34.250 --> 00:23:38.039 persona, his devout Christianity. Right. This 00:23:38.039 --> 00:23:41.000 deadpan comedian, specializing in the profane, 00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:43.339 the anarchic, was also a Christian who publicly 00:23:43.339 --> 00:23:46.220 discussed theology. His views were often compared 00:23:46.220 --> 00:23:48.779 to the 19th century philosopher Søren Kierkegaard. 00:23:48.900 --> 00:23:51.559 Kierkegaard. Why him specifically? Well, Kierkegaard's 00:23:51.559 --> 00:23:53.819 philosophy often emphasizes things like the leap 00:23:53.819 --> 00:23:56.960 of faith, subjective truth, embracing the absurdity 00:23:56.960 --> 00:23:59.279 of existence. It kind of fits, doesn't it? Yeah, 00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:02.059 it does, actually. Norm's comedy embraced the 00:24:02.059 --> 00:24:04.640 profane and the absurd elements of life, yet 00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:07.859 his faith was apparently quite sincere. He seemed 00:24:07.859 --> 00:24:09.960 to understand that these seeming contradictions, 00:24:09.960 --> 00:24:13.000 high religious faith coexisting with low, dark 00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:16.559 comedy, are just fundamentally human, that we 00:24:16.559 --> 00:24:20.319 contain multitudes. And this inherent moral or 00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:22.960 maybe intellectual compass sometimes showed up 00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:24.519 in his professional life, too, like when he was 00:24:24.519 --> 00:24:27.019 judging Last Comic Standing. Oh, yeah. He criticized 00:24:27.019 --> 00:24:29.299 a contestant for a joke referencing the Bible 00:24:29.299 --> 00:24:31.500 and Harry Potter. Was he offended by the religious 00:24:31.500 --> 00:24:34.279 aspect? Not exactly. He wasn't condemning the 00:24:34.279 --> 00:24:36.680 subject matter itself. He was condemning what 00:24:36.680 --> 00:24:40.000 he saw as a lack of intellectual rigor. He basically 00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:41.920 said, if you're going to critique an entire religion, 00:24:42.039 --> 00:24:43.640 you must at least know what you're talking about. 00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:46.440 Don't just make cheap shots. Interesting. That 00:24:46.440 --> 00:24:50.339 combination, though, loyalty to friends, belief 00:24:50.339 --> 00:24:54.160 in free speech, but also this moral conviction, 00:24:54.240 --> 00:24:56.500 sometimes landed him in immediate professional 00:24:56.500 --> 00:24:58.799 trouble, most famously during the hashtag MeToo 00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:02.400 controversy in 2018. Right. After he made some 00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:05.099 public comments that appeared to criticize aspects 00:25:05.099 --> 00:25:07.380 of the movement and seemed to defend friends 00:25:07.380 --> 00:25:10.700 like Louis C .K. and Roseanne Barr, the consequences 00:25:10.700 --> 00:25:13.099 were immediate. What happened? His scheduled 00:25:13.099 --> 00:25:14.839 appearance on The Tonight Show starring Jimmy 00:25:14.839 --> 00:25:18.200 Fallon was abruptly canceled, just pulled. The 00:25:18.200 --> 00:25:20.819 network, the show, they saw the risk and the 00:25:20.819 --> 00:25:23.440 consequence was swift and very public. It really 00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:25.859 highlighted his almost like anarchic tendency 00:25:25.859 --> 00:25:29.519 to prioritize loyalty. and absolute freedom of 00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:31.539 expression, even when it flew directly into a 00:25:31.539 --> 00:25:34.200 major cultural firestorm. Yeah, he seemed willing 00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:36.759 to accept the professional fallout from his refusal 00:25:36.759 --> 00:25:39.740 to just conform to the prevailing cultural winds 00:25:39.740 --> 00:25:42.140 of that moment. And talk about confusing signals. 00:25:42.380 --> 00:25:45.960 In 2019, on David Spade's show Lights Out, Norm 00:25:45.960 --> 00:25:48.599 completely threw fans for a loop. He claimed 00:25:48.599 --> 00:25:50.319 he might have rushed to judgment about O .J. 00:25:50.380 --> 00:25:52.539 Simpson's guilt. Wait, seriously? After all that? 00:25:52.740 --> 00:25:55.299 Yeah. Was it genuine reflection? Was it some 00:25:55.299 --> 00:25:58.329 kind of meta joke about his own reputation? Or 00:25:58.329 --> 00:26:00.750 just a way to finally move on. Who knows? It's 00:26:00.750 --> 00:26:03.529 classic Norm ambiguity, isn't it? His friend 00:26:03.529 --> 00:26:06.170 and producing partner, Laurie Jo Heekstra, even 00:26:06.170 --> 00:26:08.430 claimed O .J. Simpson reached out to thank him 00:26:08.430 --> 00:26:10.650 after that comment and offered to play golf with 00:26:10.650 --> 00:26:13.210 him. Get out. Did they? Doesn't seem like it. 00:26:13.880 --> 00:26:16.420 However, it's worth noting when O .J. died in 00:26:16.420 --> 00:26:19.819 2024, Conan O 'Brien explicitly paid tribute 00:26:19.819 --> 00:26:22.819 to Norm, confirming that the original uncompromising 00:26:22.819 --> 00:26:25.980 O .J. commentary on SNL was, in fact, brilliant 00:26:25.980 --> 00:26:28.660 comedy. That's the stance that cemented his legend, 00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:31.440 regardless of any later rhetorical games he played. 00:26:31.519 --> 00:26:33.420 OK, now we arrive at the final and maybe the 00:26:33.420 --> 00:26:36.160 deepest secret of his life. A secret that makes 00:26:36.160 --> 00:26:38.500 his creative output during those last eight years, 00:26:38.660 --> 00:26:41.740 especially in the 2010s, seem even more astonishing 00:26:41.740 --> 00:26:45.200 and, frankly, courageous. Yeah. McDonald better 00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:47.640 answer privately for eight long years. It started 00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:50.000 with the diagnosis of multiple myeloma back in 00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:52.779 2013. And he told almost no one. He made a deliberate 00:26:52.779 --> 00:26:55.079 decision to disclose his condition only to his 00:26:55.079 --> 00:26:58.240 immediate family and his agent. That's it. His 00:26:58.240 --> 00:27:00.740 brother, Neil, confirmed this secrecy was driven 00:27:00.740 --> 00:27:03.660 by a deep fear. He feared revealing the illness 00:27:03.660 --> 00:27:06.670 would... affect the way he was perceived. He 00:27:06.670 --> 00:27:08.430 didn't want to be seen as sick or vulnerable. 00:27:08.589 --> 00:27:12.269 He wanted to be seen as Norm. Imagine the dedication 00:27:12.269 --> 00:27:15.109 required to maintain that public persona while 00:27:15.109 --> 00:27:17.549 undergoing intense medical treatments. It's incredible. 00:27:17.690 --> 00:27:20.650 He underwent several stem cell transplants, apparently 00:27:20.650 --> 00:27:23.609 using aliases to maintain his privacy. His final 00:27:23.609 --> 00:27:26.930 transplant was in March 2021. And the chemotherapy 00:27:26.930 --> 00:27:29.490 had debilitating side effects, like peripheral 00:27:29.490 --> 00:27:31.910 neuropathy, which forced him to give up golf 00:27:31.910 --> 00:27:34.470 and tennis, two things he really loved. So the 00:27:34.470 --> 00:27:36.890 medical journey was just grueling. Extremely. 00:27:36.890 --> 00:27:39.609 The multiple myeloma did initially go into remission, 00:27:39.609 --> 00:27:42.049 which was good news. But then, tragically, in 00:27:42.049 --> 00:27:44.390 early 2020, he developed treatment -associated 00:27:44.390 --> 00:27:47.170 myelodysplastic syndrome. It's a type of cancer 00:27:47.170 --> 00:27:49.309 often associated with prior chemotherapy. And 00:27:49.309 --> 00:27:51.930 that progresses. It often progresses into acute 00:27:51.930 --> 00:27:54.950 myeloid leukemia, which it did. He succumbed 00:27:54.950 --> 00:27:57.529 to complications from acute leukemia on September 00:27:57.529 --> 00:28:01.890 14, 2021. He was 61 years old. But his commitment 00:28:01.890 --> 00:28:04.430 to his craft and his absolute control over his 00:28:04.430 --> 00:28:07.009 public image, it endured right until the very 00:28:07.009 --> 00:28:10.269 last moment. That control really manifested in 00:28:10.269 --> 00:28:12.710 the extraordinary posthumous release of Norm 00:28:12.710 --> 00:28:15.569 Macdonald. Nothing special in 2022. That was 00:28:15.569 --> 00:28:17.430 the stand -up set he recorded at home. Exactly. 00:28:17.990 --> 00:28:20.809 Knowing his condition was worsening, he had taped 00:28:20.809 --> 00:28:24.009 an audience -less dry run of a brand new stand 00:28:24.009 --> 00:28:26.970 -up set, just in his own home, just in case things 00:28:26.970 --> 00:28:29.509 went south, as he apparently put it. A truly 00:28:29.509 --> 00:28:32.029 prescient act of preserving his material himself. 00:28:32.670 --> 00:28:35.210 And that special was met with just enormous critical 00:28:35.210 --> 00:28:38.369 acclaim, earned him three primetime Emmy nominations 00:28:38.369 --> 00:28:40.690 posthumously. Yeah, and it was followed by this 00:28:40.690 --> 00:28:42.849 really moving discussion among his peers, Chappelle, 00:28:43.170 --> 00:28:45.269 Letterman, O 'Brien, Sandler, Molly Shannon, 00:28:45.470 --> 00:28:47.890 David Spade, all just talking about the genius 00:28:47.890 --> 00:28:49.950 that had commanded their respect for decades. 00:28:50.289 --> 00:28:52.210 His final performance, as you mentioned, that 00:28:52.210 --> 00:28:54.869 voice role as Yafit on The Orville, season three, 00:28:55.069 --> 00:28:57.309 it carried an onscreen dedication to him. It 00:28:57.309 --> 00:28:59.950 feels fitting somehow that his final appearance 00:28:59.950 --> 00:29:03.099 was a voice performance. maintaining that subtle, 00:29:03.220 --> 00:29:06.279 detached presence even in death. And the tributes 00:29:06.279 --> 00:29:09.200 just poured in. Cementing his legacy as a true 00:29:09.200 --> 00:29:12.279 titan of comedy, Jon Stewart called him, without 00:29:12.279 --> 00:29:15.400 hesitation, the funniest person he knew. David 00:29:15.400 --> 00:29:17.640 Letterman, the man who recognized his genius 00:29:17.640 --> 00:29:20.299 three decades earlier, he reiterated his belief. 00:29:20.700 --> 00:29:24.240 Norm was the best in every important way. Conan 00:29:24.240 --> 00:29:27.000 O 'Brien mourned him by saying, Norm had the 00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:29.819 most unique comedic voice I have ever encountered. 00:29:29.880 --> 00:29:32.599 I will never laugh that hard again. Just devastating. 00:29:33.240 --> 00:29:35.519 The respect really transcended his immediate 00:29:35.519 --> 00:29:38.220 peer group, too. Dave Chappelle dedicated two 00:29:38.220 --> 00:29:40.480 of his subsequent Netflix specials, The Closer 00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:43.240 and The Dreamer, to McDonald's memory. He credited 00:29:43.240 --> 00:29:45.339 Norm with fundamentally making him fall in love 00:29:45.339 --> 00:29:47.500 with comedy again. Wow. And this influence was 00:29:47.500 --> 00:29:49.740 felt globally. Lorne Michaels and John Oliver 00:29:49.740 --> 00:29:52.579 dedicated Emmy victories to him. Canadian Prime 00:29:52.579 --> 00:29:54.980 Minister Justin Trudeau publicly called him a 00:29:54.980 --> 00:29:57.700 comedic genius. He was recognized not just as 00:29:57.700 --> 00:29:59.759 a comedian, but as a really significant cultural 00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:02.420 figure. So what does this all mean for us, the 00:30:02.420 --> 00:30:18.859 audience? Mm -hmm. literary, a fierce loyalist 00:30:18.859 --> 00:30:21.519 to his friends, and devoutly Christian. So many 00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:24.299 contradictions. His career was really a masterful 00:30:24.299 --> 00:30:26.839 balancing act, wasn't it? Between public chaos 00:30:26.839 --> 00:30:30.160 and absolute personal control, he built his fame 00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:32.740 on saying the quiet, difficult parts out loud. 00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:34.900 While meticulously shielding the most challenging 00:30:34.900 --> 00:30:37.259 truth of his own life, that eight -year battle 00:30:37.259 --> 00:30:39.640 with cancer from the public eye entirely. Yeah. 00:30:39.880 --> 00:30:42.200 Which brings us to our final provocative thought 00:30:42.200 --> 00:30:44.950 for you, the listener. His death spurred the 00:30:44.950 --> 00:30:47.150 release of Nothing Special, that meticulously 00:30:47.150 --> 00:30:49.990 prepared, dry run of a set recorded in total 00:30:49.990 --> 00:30:52.789 privacy, just in case. Did this final, deliberate 00:30:52.789 --> 00:30:55.210 act to ensure his material survived, to control 00:30:55.210 --> 00:30:57.730 his own narrative, his public image, and to deny 00:30:57.730 --> 00:31:00.150 the public access to his personal struggle, did 00:31:00.150 --> 00:31:03.029 that perfectly encapsulate the understated, eccentric, 00:31:03.369 --> 00:31:05.650 and fiercely principled nature of his entire 00:31:05.650 --> 00:31:08.539 comedic career? It forces us to ask, you know, 00:31:08.539 --> 00:31:10.660 whether the greatest truth about Norm Macdonald 00:31:10.660 --> 00:31:12.680 wasn't just in the jokes themselves, brilliant 00:31:12.680 --> 00:31:15.700 as they were, but in the unwavering commitment 00:31:15.700 --> 00:31:19.240 to his own unique truth, protected at all costs. 00:31:19.599 --> 00:31:21.900 If you haven't yet experienced his genius in 00:31:21.900 --> 00:31:24.279 its purest form, you really owe it to yourself 00:31:24.279 --> 00:31:27.039 to revisit his work, especially those wonderfully 00:31:27.039 --> 00:31:29.319 chaotic talk shows like Norm Macdonald Live. 00:31:29.599 --> 00:31:31.599 Dive deep into the archives. You definitely won't 00:31:31.599 --> 00:31:33.680 regret the exploration. Thank you so much for 00:31:33.680 --> 00:31:35.539 joining us for this deep dive into the genius 00:31:35.539 --> 00:31:36.240 of Norm. McDonald.