Welcome to the Deep Dive. Okay, think about this.
Who in American entertainment, like, really defines
sticking to their guns? Someone who built a decades
-long career, not by fitting in, but by being
unmistakably them. It's got to be Danny DeVito,
right? Exactly. Today, we're diving deep into
Danny DeVito. We want to get past the loud characters
everyone knows and really look at the actual
career. Yeah, because there's so much more there.
People see Louis De Palma. They see Frank Reynolds,
which, don't get me wrong, are brilliant. But
behind that is this incredibly sharp guy. An
Emmy winner, sure, but also an Oscar -nominated
producer, a really interesting director. Right.
So our mission for you today is basically to
map out his journey. It's not your typical Hollywood
story at all. We're talking, like, calculated
risks, unexpected turns. Right. How a beautician
from Jersey became this, well, this mogul of
macabre charm, as you put it earlier. Mogul of
macabre charm. I like that. It fits. Yeah. Because
his whole career feels built on, well, audacity,
taking his unique look, his background and just
running with it. So let's start with the basics,
the foundation. OK. Full name. Daniel. Michael
DeVito, Jr., born November 17th, 1944. So, yeah,
he just turned 80, which is incredible given
his energy. Still going strong. Totally. Born
in Neptune, New Jersey, grew up in Asbury Park.
And the thing everyone notices, his height. Five
feet tall, 1 .52 meters. And that's not just
a random detail, is it? It's tied to a specific
condition. Correct. It's due to something called
multiple epiphyseal dysplasia, also known as
Fairbanks disease. It's a rare genetic thing
affecting bone growth. And, you know, you look
at how Hollywood often typecasts actors with
distinct physical traits. Puts them in a box.
Exactly. But DeVito, he sort of weaponized it.
He used that physical presence to command attention,
to carve out this niche, playing these short,
but... Totally dominating characters, you know,
the angry dispatcher, the sleazy businessman,
the penguin. It forced him to be memorable, maybe?
I think so. It made him an exceptional character
actor from the get -go. And eventually, it probably
fueled his drive to direct, to control his own
story, his own image. That makes a lot of sense.
Okay, so let's rewind way back. Before Hollywood,
before Taxi, how did this Jersey kid even get
on that path? It wasn't straightforward. None
at all. So his roots are pure Jersey. Grew up
in Asbury Park, Catholic family, Italo -Albanian
background. His family actually has ties to San
Fele in Basilicata, Italy. And interestingly,
the Arboresch -Aldanian community down in Calabria.
Wow, that's specific. So a real sense of heritage
there. Definitely. And you sometimes see that
sort of... earthy gravity underneath the comedy
anyway education wise he went to oratory prep
a boarding school apparently he convinced his
dad to send him there to keep him out of trouble
graduated in 62. okay standard enough but then
the career path takes a weird turn no acting
right away nope he starts working as a beautician
at his sister's salon right from boarding school
troublemaker to hairstylist kind of amazing right
and the way he got into acting was almost accidental
he was looking for a professional makeup instructor
he needed someone to teach him Presumably for
stage or maybe even film makeup for the salon
work, maybe. Oh, interesting. So a practical
need. Totally practical. And that search leads
him somehow to the American Academy of Dramatic
Arts in New York. He graduates from there in
1966. So he went looking for makeup tips and
found acting. Basically, yeah. AD offered both.
And clearly the acting side really grabbed him.
But hold on. Before acting became the main thing,
there's this other job he had. And this, I think
this explains so much about his later work, his
comfort with the dark stuff. Okay, I'm braced.
What is it? He worked in a morgue as a cosmetologist.
You're kidding. Styling hair for the deceased?
Yeah. Apparently how it happened was one of his
regular clients from the salon passed away. And
her family specifically asked him to do her hair
and makeup for the funeral. Wow. And somehow
that turned into him actually working shifts
at the morgue doing cosmetology for, well, for
the residents. Okay, stop. Imagine being a young
guy trying to make it, and that's your side gig,
dealing with death up close, grieving families,
but focusing on, like, the perfect hairstyle.
The juxtaposition is insane, right? Meticulous
work, cosmetology, against the starkest reality
there is. You gotta think that gives you a certain
perspective. Maybe it makes you unflappable.
Or deeply comfortable with the grotesque, which
tracks with Throw Mama from the Train, War of
the Roses, Matilda. Exactly. It grounds his black
comedy. He's never seemed squeamish about showing
the ugly side of things, the dark underbelly.
So that morgue experience, maybe it was kind
of... formative for his artistic sensibility.
That makes a weird kind of sense. So, okay, he
has this unique background experience. Then he
starts in the stage. Yeah, late 60s, off -Broadway,
he's doing plays with titles like Shoot Anything
with Hair That Moves and The Man with the Flower
in His Mouth. This is 1969. Lopper experimental
stuff. Oh, yeah. He was involved with the Colonnades
Theater Lab at the Eugene O 'Neill Theater Center,
which was a serious place for developing new
work. And crucially, this is also where his personal
and professional life really started to merge.
He was working with the Westbeth Playwrights
Feminist Collective and appearing in plays there
alongside a young actress named Rhea Perlman.
Ah, the beginning of that iconic partnership.
The very beginning. So by the time Hollywood
noticed him, he wasn't just some funny looking
guy. He was a trained actor with serious stage
cred. and some pretty unique life experience.
Right. Which brings us to the breakthrough. The
moment people really started knowing his name
outside of New York theater. One flew over the
cuckoo's nest. 1975. Milos Forman directing.
And this wasn't just luck. This was him leveraging
his stage work perfectly. How so? He played Martini
in the movie. But here's the key. He had already
played that exact same role in the 1971 off -Broadway
stage production. No way. So he walked onto that
movie set already knowing Martini inside and
out. Completely. Imagine the confidence that
gives you. On a huge film set, Oscar -winning
director Jack Nicholson. And you know you're
part cold because you've lived it on stage for
months. That's a massive advantage. Huge. Now,
technically, his first feature film was a little
drama called Dreams of Glass in 1970. But Cuckoo's
Nest, I mean, that movie swept the Oscars. That
put him on the map in a huge way. But the real
game changer, the role that made him a household
name, has to be Louis De Palma. Oh, absolutely.
Taxi, running from 78 to 83. The angry, tyrannical,
but somehow lovable dispatcher at the Sunshine
Cab Company. He was perfect. That short stature,
but this massive... dominating personality it
was like the role was built for him and it won
him the emmy for supporting actor in 81 won him
a golden globe huge success but the story of
how he got the part the audition story yes tell
it is it true Well, the legend goes, and the
creators have told versions of this, that DeVito
walks into the audition room, sits down, looks
at the script, and just throws it on the table
and growls, who wrote this shit? He actually
said that to the guy's hiring. Apparently, instead
of reading politely, he just became Louis De
Palma right there in the room. Total aggression,
total confidence. That's insane. And it worked.
It worked. They loved it. They figured, okay,
this guy gets it. He is Louis. It was this incredibly
risky, but ultimately brilliant move that just
screamed. I am perfect for this. Wow. That takes
guts. Okay, so Taxi makes him a huge TV star.
Yeah. But he doesn't just stay there. He makes
a jump to movies in the 80s, and it feels very
deliberate. Very strategic. He didn't just take
any movie role. He aimed high right away. 1983,
he takes a supporting part, Vernon Dalhart, in
terms of Endearment. Huge movie. Critically acclaimed,
won Best Picture. Exactly. James L. Brooks directing,
Shirley MacLaine, Deborah Winger, Jack Nicholson
again. By doing that, he instantly signals, I'm
not just the sitcom guy. I can play in serious,
award -winning films. Smart. Elevating the brand.
Totally. And then he finds this other groove,
the action comedy thing, with Michael Douglas
and Kathleen Turner. Romancing the Stone. 1984.
He plays Ralph, the sort of slimy, comic relief
villain. It's a massive hit. And the sequel,
Jewel is an Isle. 1985. That pairing, that trilogy
of actors, it really worked. It established him
as this reliable, hilarious presence in big mainstream
movies. He could do the slightly menacing thing,
but always funny. Right. And he leaned into that
black comedy sensibility too, like in Ruthless
People with Bette Midler in 86. That was a big
hit for him. And Twins. With Schwarzenegger.
Oh, yeah. Twins in 88. Genius casting, playing
on The Height Difference. They did Junior later,
too, in 94. He also did Tin Men with Richard
Dreyfuss around that time, right? Yeah. Avery
Levinson directed. Yeah, 87. Playing rival aluminum
siding salesman, another great character part.
So the 80s, for him, acting -wise, it's all about
showing range, proving he can carry comedic roles
in big movies, work with the top directors and
stars. But while all this is happening... He's
already thinking bigger. Exactly. He's setting
himself up to be more than just an actor. He's
moving towards becoming the mogul. Which leads
us perfectly into section three, the director
and producer. This feels like a major shift in
ambition. Absolutely. Moving from actor for hire
to the one calling the shots. His first directing
gig was actually a TV movie, The Ratings Game,
in 1984. Okay. Dipping his toes in. Right. But
then his feature film debut as director comes
in 87 with Throw Mama from the Train. Which is
pure DeVito sensibility, right? Dark comedy.
Totally. Starring himself opposite Billy Crystal,
Ann Ramsey is unforgettable in it. It does well,
gets him a Golden Globe nod for acting in it
too. So he proves he can handle directing a feature,
get good performances, and star in it. He directed
for TV too, right? I remember an Amazing Stories
episode. Yeah, The Wedding Ring, season two,
where Rhea Perlman, his wife, gets possessed
by a cursed ring he finds. Again, that slightly
dark, quirky vibe. And then he brings that directing
skill back to his big screen partnership. The
War of the Roses, 1989, reunites him with Douglas
and Turner. But this wasn't like Romancing the
Stone. This was dark. Oh, incredibly dark. It's
this brutal black comedy about a divorcing couple
literally trying to destroy each other. It took
that charming... Douglas Turner chemistry and
just twisted it into something really ugly and
uncomfortable. It definitely showed his willingness
to push comedy into uncomfortable places. Which,
again, leads us to Matilda, 1996. A classic.
He directed it, narrated it, and played the worst
dad ever, Harry Wormwood. Opposite Rhea Perlman,
again, as the equally awful mom. Matilda is kind
of the perfect synthesis of his directorial style.
He totally got Roald Dahl's vibe. It's dark.
It's unsentimental. It doesn't talk down to kids.
Roger Ebert loved that about it, right? That
he didn't shy away from the macabre stuff. Exactly.
Ebert praised him for sticking to Dahl's vision.
The Wormwoods are monstrous and DeVito just leans
into it, makes it hilariously, terrifyingly real.
It's brilliant. He also took a big swing with
a serious biopic, Hoffa, in 92. Right. Directing,
producing, acting alongside Jack Nicholson as
Jimmy Hoffa. That felt like a real power play.
It was about establishing himself as a serious
film. Someone who could handle big budgets, complex
historical subjects, attract huge stars like
Nicholson. It was about gaining that industry
respect beyond comedy. Okay. But maybe his biggest
impact behind the scenes wasn't even directing
his own stuff. It was Jersey Films. Yes. Founded
in 1991 with Michael Schamberg. Stacey Schur
joined later as an equal partner. This company
changed things. It really did. Their whole philosophy
seemed to be about finding unique, writer -driven
projects that maybe the big studios were afraid
of. They championed outsider voices. And the
results were just staggering. I mean, look at
the list. Pulp Fiction, 1994. Changed everything.
Right. Then get Shorty 95, adapting Elmore Leonard.
Gataka in 97, that smart sci -fi. Out of Sight
in 98. Man on the Moon with Jim Carrey as Andy
Kaufman in 99. And then Aaron Brockovich in 2000.
Which got him the Oscar nomination for Best Picture
as a producer. Exactly. Aaron Brockovich was
interesting because it was more mainstream, a
big star vehicle for Julia Roberts, a social
issue drama. It showed Jersey films could play
in that league, too, deliver major Oscar contenders.
It wasn't just edgy indie stuff. You did Garden
State, too, right? Zach Braff's movie? Yeah,
2004. Another huge indie hit that defined a moment.
They just had an incredible run of spotting talent
and backing distinctive films. And they branched
into TV, too, with Jersey Television. Reno 911,
that was them. The Comedy Central show, the movie
Reno 911, Miami, even the Quibi revival later
on, just consistently backing funny, weird, original
stuff. They also optioned that Pulitzer -winning
book Tom's River about environmental issues in
Jersey, showing they're still looking at serious
material, too. That's an amazing track record.
But it wasn't all hits, right? There were projects
that got away. Oh, tons. That's the reality of
Hollywood development, even when you're Danny
DeVito. In the late 90s, he was attached to direct
things like The Little Things, which finally
got made years later with Denzel Washington.
And The Crowded Room. Yeah, that was supposed
to be him directing DiCaprio, maybe? That also
took decades to surface in a different form.
He was even set to direct and star in Mystery
Men, the superhero comedy. What happened there?
Big $13 million deal, apparently. Right. But
he walked away because they couldn't agree on
who controlled the soundtrack production. He
wanted it, didn't get it. So he said, OK, I'm
out. Shows how much control mattered to him.
Wow. Then there was that Trump versus Wynn movie
for HBO. Yeah. That sounded wild. About them
battling over building casinos in Atlantic City,
DeVito was going to direct, produce, maybe star.
But it got killed. Reportedly, after he met with
both Trump and Wynn, and they, let's say, expressed
their displeasure, powerful people pushing back.
And the really heartbreaking one seems to be
the true confessions of Charlotte Doyle. Oh,
man, yeah. Based on the YA novel, he wrote the
script, was all set to direct in 2008. had Morgan
Freeman, Pierce Brosnan, Saras Ronan lined up.
Great cast. Amazing cast. They were literally
two weeks from shooting and... Morgan Freeman
had that terrible car accident. Oh, right. Production
halted. DeVito apparently never gave up on it,
was scouting locations again in 2013, but it
just never happened. Still unreleased. There
was another one, too, St. Sebastian, a horror
film he produced, finished in 2012, also never
released. Just shows how tough it is to get films
made, even for him. Absolutely brutal. Okay,
let's pivot back to his acting, especially some
of the iconic roles in his more recent work.
His collaborations with Tim Burton feel really
significant. Oh, totally. A perfect match aesthetically.
Burton's gothic, slightly grotesque style fits
DeVito perfectly. And it started with Batman
Returns. 1992. His Penguin is just unforgettable.
It's genuinely creepy, sad, repulsive, kind of
brilliant. It's not just a comic book villain.
It's this really operatic, tragic figure. He
fully committed to the look, the feel. Completely.
And Burton clearly loved working with him. They
did Mars Attacks together in 96. Where he plays
that loudmouth gambler in Vegas. Right. And they
reunited much later for the live action Dumbo
in 2019, where DeVito played Max Medici, the
circus owner. Burton just gets how to use his
specific energy, that mix of funny and disturbing.
Exactly. And DeVito seems to really embrace that
Penguin character still. He actually wrote a
Penguin and Catwoman story for a DC comic anthology
in 2021. No way. He wrote a comic. 12 pages.
Shows how much that role still means to him or
how much he enjoys that world. Okay, speaking
of embracing a character, we have to talk about
Frank Reynolds. The man, the myth, the legend,
Frank Reynolds on It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia,
joining in season two back in 2006. This was
a huge move, wasn't it? A major star joining
this scrappy, low -budget FX sitcom. Kind of
unheard of, really. He didn't need it. He had
Emmys, movie stardom, his production company.
But he saw the show and apparently just loved
it. What did he say about it? His quote was that
he thought it was fucking outrageous. That's
about right. He loved the edginess, the total
lack of rules. And Frank Reynolds, I mean, the
depraved millionaire who chooses to live in squalor
with his degenerate kids. It's maybe the ultimate
DeVito character. The culmination of his black
comedy career almost. Yeah. Playing pure id.
Absolutely. And it gave him this massive career
resurgence, introduced him to a whole new generation.
He got a satellite award nomination for it. It's
just proof of his willingness to take risks and
jump into something completely raw and different.
And it's amazing that decades into his career,
he's arguably as famous for Frank Reynolds as
he is for Louis De Palma. Talk about adaptability.
Totally. And let's not forget, he even got an
Emmy nomination back in 2004 for playing a stripper
on Friends. Oh, my God. I forgot about that.
Officer Goodbody. Hilarious. Shows he's always
been willing to just go for it. That versatility
comes through in his voice acting, too. Definitely.
Phil in Disney's Hercules in 97 is a classic.
That cynical, wise -cracking satyr trainer. Critics
loved how the animation captured his whole persona.
Use Phil. And the Lorax. Yeah, voicing the title
character in Dr. Seuss' The Lorax in 2012. Big
animated feature. And the Simpsons. Herb Powell.
Homer's long -lost half -brother. Yeah, he did
Herb in three great episodes. Oh, brother, where
art thou? Brother, can you spare two dimes? And
The Changing of the Guardian. Just a perfect
voice for that character. But the best voice
acting story has to be the one that didn't happen.
Ah, yes. The Detective Pikachu Saga. Explain
this, because it's... wild internet fandom at
its peak. Okay, so Nintendo releases this game
in Japan, Detective Pikachu. The Pikachu in it
isn't the usual high -pitched Pika Pika guy.
He's like a gruff coffee -drinking detective.
Right. And fans online immediately thought, Danny
DeVito, his voice would be perfect. Small, gruff
character. It just fit. Yeah. So they start this
petition. Nobody's signatures. Something like
40 ,000 people signed this petition demanding
that Danny DeVito voice Detective Pikachu in
the English version of the game in the eventual
movie. That's amazing dedication. Did he consider
it? He declined to even audition. Apparently,
his people showed him the fam campaign, and his
response, perfectly unfiltered DeVito, was basically,
what the F is Pokemon? Classic. totally oblivious
or uninterested in the pop culture phenomena
which honestly probably just made the fans love
him more probably okay beyond screen work he's
also gone back to the stage his roots yeah which
is great to see he did his West End debut in
London in 2012 and Neil Simon's The Sunshine
Boys and then Broadway finally made his Broadway
debut in 2017 Arthur Miller's The Price. He played
Gregory Solomon, the furniture dealer. And got
nominated for a Tony Award. Yep. Best featured
actor in a play. Critics really praised him for
finding the humor and the down -to -earth Jewish
wisdom, as one review put it, in the role. Showed
he still had serious dramatic chops. It's just
such a varied career. The Hollywood Walk of Fame
star in 2011. The Lifetime Achievement Award
in San Sebastian in 2018. They feel well -deserved
for the sheer breadth of it all. Absolutely.
Actor, director, producer, stage star. He's done
it all, and usually on his own terms. Which brings
us nicely to his personal life, which has also
been pretty unique, especially his relationship
with Rhea Perlman. Yeah, talk about a Hollywood
-enduring couple, even in separation. They met
super early, January 17, 1971. She saw him in
a play he wrote called The Shrinking Bride. A
play he wrote, okay. Yeah, and apparently the
connection was instant. They moved in together
like two weeks later. Wow. Oh, Patrick. Very.
They got married over a decade later, January
28, 1982. Had three kids, Lucy, Grace, and Jacob.
And they worked together so often. Taxi, obviously.
Matilda is those awful parents. Right. They had
this amazing chemistry they could use for comedy,
even antagonistic comedy. Just seemed like a
real partnership. But then they separated. Which
seemed to shock people. It did. They separated
in October 2012. Then they actually reconciled
for a bit in March 2013. Oh, I didn't know they
reconciled. Yeah, briefly. But then they separated
again, seemingly for good, in March 2017. But
here's the really interesting part. They never
divorced. Exactly. They remain legally married
but separated. And both have said publicly they're
really close friends, have no plans to divorce.
Perlman even said they became better friends
after separating than they were towards the end
of being a couple. That's remarkable. mature,
especially for Hollywood. It really is. It suggests
this deep mutual respect and prioritizing family
and friendship over just ending things legally.
Very unconventional. Very them. And their lifestyle
reflects that blend of Hollywood and well. Jersey.
They sold the huge Beverly Hills mansion. Yeah,
the 14 ,000 -plus square foot place went for
$24 million in 2015. But they kept key spots.
Like? Still have a bungalow near Rodeo Drive,
a compound out in Malibu on Broad Beach. But
crucially, they always kept a place in Interlaken,
New Jersey. Back to the roots. Always. DeVito's
often said he never really felt like a California
guy, that he was only there for work. That Jersey
connection is deep. Which ties into one of his
more surprising endorsements, Jersey Mike subs.
Right. And this wasn't just some random celebrity
deal. He actually lived near the original Jersey
Mike's back in the day, was a genuine regular
customer. So it's authentic. Totally. So when
he became their first celebrity spokesman in
2022, it actually made sense. It fits his whole
persona. What about his other tastes? I heard
something about his music taste being. Unexpected.
Oh, yeah. He's apparently a massive fan of Mike
Patton. Mike Patton. Yeah. From Faith No More.
The Dribungle. Thomas, then Mike Patton. That
exact Mike Patton. Really experimental, often
abrasive music, not exactly standard Hollywood
soundtrack stuff. How did that happen? His son
Jacob got him into Patton's music around 2005,
and DeVito just became this huge, genuine fan.
He's collaborated with Patton on a music video.
Rhea Perlman did a voiceover for a Mr. Bungle
album. Wow. And DeVito even got Faith No More
music featured on It's Always Sunny in 2016.
It's like this deep family appreciation. for
really adventurous music. That's cool. It adds
another layer. Anything else surprising? Well,
he seems genuinely curious. He hosted that documentary
channel, Jersey Docs, for Morgan Freeman's company,
Clickstar. And he was an early adopter, or at
least supporter, of electric cars. He was interviewed
in that documentary, Revenge of the Electric
Car. So interested in tech and sustainability,
too. Seems like it. It just rounds out the picture,
you know? The guy who plays Frank Reynolds also
cares about documentaries and EVs. He contains
multitudes. He really does. Okay, so let's try
and wrap this up. We've gone through this incredible
winding career. Yeah, from that morgue cosmetology
gig in Jersey. Unbelievable start. To winning
Emmys for Taxi, to directing these really specific
dark comedies, to becoming this major producer
who backs films like Pulp Fiction and Erin Brockovich.
And then finding this whole new life on Always
Sunny, getting Tony nominations on Broadway.
It's the consistency of being unconventional,
right? He never smoothed out his edges. He leaned
into his uniqueness, his look, his voice, his
Jersey attitude, his comfort. with the dark side
that became his brand his strength he's the definition
of a multi -hyphenate actor director producer
emmy winner oscar nominee stage recognized and
he did it by seizing control he didn't just wait
for roles he created opportunities directed his
own stuff produced things he believed in he made
sure his voice that outsider perspective was
heard so the final thought for you the listener
after this deep dive think about that journey
cosmetologist for the deceased to pulp fiction
producer Staying married, but separated because
friendship works better. What does Danny DeVito's
career tell you about making it in a place like
Hollywood that usually demands conformity? Yeah,
maybe the biggest asset isn't fitting in. Maybe
it's having the guts to look at the weird, the
dark, the uncomfortable parts of life and your
own unique background and just say, yeah, this
is me. Let's run with it. Perhaps owning your
unconventionality is the ultimate power move.
A great place to leave it. Definitely something
to think about. Thanks for joining us for the
Deep Dive.