WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.259 Welcome to the Deep Dive. Today we're taking 00:00:02.259 --> 00:00:05.419 a long, intense look at an artist who really 00:00:05.419 --> 00:00:08.240 broke the mold in the L .A. music scene. We're 00:00:08.240 --> 00:00:10.720 talking about Warren Williams' Zavon. His rock 00:00:10.720 --> 00:00:12.519 and roll songs were almost like these terse, 00:00:12.519 --> 00:00:15.320 violent, really polished short stories. Exactly. 00:00:15.619 --> 00:00:20.199 Zavon, born 1947, died 2003. He's one of those 00:00:20.199 --> 00:00:22.559 figures where the life story is just so complex, 00:00:22.760 --> 00:00:25.219 isn't it? Full of high tragedy and, well, low 00:00:25.219 --> 00:00:27.879 comedy. The sources we've looked at really define 00:00:27.879 --> 00:00:32.719 him as balancing this gritty pulp fiction imagination, 00:00:32.920 --> 00:00:36.399 as they put it, with this incredibly raw, undeniable 00:00:36.399 --> 00:00:39.560 vulnerability, master of gallows humor. Often 00:00:39.560 --> 00:00:42.179 death was the punchline. Yeah, absolutely. So 00:00:42.179 --> 00:00:44.060 our mission today is to get beyond just the hits, 00:00:44.119 --> 00:00:46.259 you know. We want to untack the specific details 00:00:46.259 --> 00:00:48.640 that really defined his life. Things like his 00:00:48.640 --> 00:00:51.179 bizarre origins, that frustrating early career. 00:00:51.200 --> 00:00:53.619 Definitely frustrating. Then that explosive critical 00:00:53.619 --> 00:00:55.960 peak, the personal crises that came right after. 00:00:56.039 --> 00:00:57.859 And of course, that incredibly powerful, really 00:00:57.859 --> 00:01:00.380 moving final act. We're here to figure out why 00:01:00.380 --> 00:01:02.240 Zivon wasn't just a brilliant songwriter, but 00:01:02.240 --> 00:01:04.659 maybe also a complicated chronicler of the darker 00:01:04.659 --> 00:01:07.219 side of the American dream. And if you need one 00:01:07.219 --> 00:01:09.319 single takeaway, Zivon. kind of gifted it to 00:01:09.319 --> 00:01:11.939 us himself, didn't he? On his final TV appearance 00:01:11.939 --> 00:01:15.239 on Letterman. Right, the late show. Yeah. Letterman 00:01:15.239 --> 00:01:17.159 asked him about the meaning of life and Zavon, 00:01:17.219 --> 00:01:19.980 you know, facing death, he just shared this essential 00:01:19.980 --> 00:01:22.569 insight. Yeah. People should simply enjoy every 00:01:22.569 --> 00:01:24.730 sandwich. And we're going to see how the intensity 00:01:24.730 --> 00:01:27.150 and frankly, the volatility of his life really 00:01:27.150 --> 00:01:29.769 shows how hard won that simple philosophy was 00:01:29.769 --> 00:01:31.750 for him. We are talking about the guy behind 00:01:31.750 --> 00:01:35.290 songs like Werewolves of London, obviously, Lawyers, 00:01:35.290 --> 00:01:37.450 Guns and Money, Roland the Headless Thompson 00:01:37.450 --> 00:01:40.370 Gunner. These tracks just have this narrative 00:01:40.370 --> 00:01:43.709 urgency, this dark wit. It set him miles apart 00:01:43.709 --> 00:01:46.829 from his peers in the 70s. So let's unpack this 00:01:46.829 --> 00:01:48.890 starting right at the beginning with a foundation 00:01:48.890 --> 00:01:51.439 that reads like, well. The first chapter of some 00:01:51.439 --> 00:01:53.939 noir thriller. You mentioned chaos, and it really 00:01:53.939 --> 00:01:55.640 does start right there with his parents. This 00:01:55.640 --> 00:01:57.799 isn't just biography background noise. I think 00:01:57.799 --> 00:02:00.319 it's key to understanding the tension in his 00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:03.959 songs. Born in Chicago in 1947, and his family 00:02:03.959 --> 00:02:06.819 life was just a study in profound contradiction. 00:02:07.260 --> 00:02:10.080 It truly was. His mother, Beverly Cope. She came 00:02:10.080 --> 00:02:12.280 from this quite strict Church of Jesus Christ 00:02:12.280 --> 00:02:14.639 of Latter -day Saints family. Sort of embodying 00:02:14.639 --> 00:02:17.180 order, English heritage, maybe a kind of moral 00:02:17.180 --> 00:02:20.020 sobriety. But then, then you have his father. 00:02:20.430 --> 00:02:23.509 William Zivon, originally Zivotosky, a Jewish 00:02:23.509 --> 00:02:26.189 immigrant from Ukraine. And William Zivon wasn't 00:02:26.189 --> 00:02:28.509 just like any immigrant starting out. He was 00:02:28.509 --> 00:02:31.039 a bookie. a heavy hitter in the criminal underworld. 00:02:31.379 --> 00:02:34.120 The sources say he specialized in handling these 00:02:34.120 --> 00:02:37.659 high -volume bets, dice games, for one of L .A.'s 00:02:37.659 --> 00:02:40.639 most notorious gangsters, Mickey Cohen. That's 00:02:40.639 --> 00:02:42.659 right. Biographical accounts show William Zevon 00:02:42.659 --> 00:02:45.680 was known in those circles as Stumpy Zevon. And 00:02:45.680 --> 00:02:48.199 get this, he was actually best man at Mickey 00:02:48.199 --> 00:02:50.719 Cohen's first wedding. Wow. Yeah, just think 00:02:50.719 --> 00:02:54.240 about that for a second. The strict, almost Victorian 00:02:54.240 --> 00:02:57.159 kind of LDS morality side by side with the volatile, 00:02:57.300 --> 00:02:59.729 cynical world of an L .A. mobster's inner circle. 00:02:59.870 --> 00:03:02.409 That juxtaposition, I think it explains so much 00:03:02.409 --> 00:03:04.629 about why Zion's music often marries violence 00:03:04.629 --> 00:03:07.750 with this high artistic polish, you know, cynicism 00:03:07.750 --> 00:03:09.610 with these sudden flashes of deep earnest longing. 00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:12.060 It's fascinating, too, considering that kind 00:03:12.060 --> 00:03:15.039 of street -level upbringing, that Zivan had this 00:03:15.039 --> 00:03:18.539 almost secret highbrow education going on. He 00:03:18.539 --> 00:03:21.580 didn't just stumble into rock music. By 13, he 00:03:21.580 --> 00:03:23.840 was an occasional visitor to the L .A. home of 00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:26.780 Igor Stravinsky, one of the 20th century's most 00:03:26.780 --> 00:03:30.319 significant composers. That is the ultimate contrasting 00:03:30.319 --> 00:03:32.840 route, isn't it? He briefly studied modern classical 00:03:32.840 --> 00:03:35.139 music there, alongside Stravinsky's assistant, 00:03:35.379 --> 00:03:37.620 Robert Kraft. And this wasn't just a fleeting 00:03:37.620 --> 00:03:40.639 hobby. It shows a really... early serious engagement 00:03:40.639 --> 00:03:43.719 with composition, understanding structure, counterpoint, 00:03:43.840 --> 00:03:47.199 rhythm in a complex formal way. It really makes 00:03:47.199 --> 00:03:49.719 you wonder how that rigor, that formality showed 00:03:49.719 --> 00:03:51.740 up in songs that sound so immediate, so rock 00:03:51.740 --> 00:03:53.240 and roll, you wouldn't automatically think the 00:03:53.240 --> 00:03:55.939 composer of Rite of Spring influenced Werewolves 00:03:55.939 --> 00:03:58.439 of London. But I think he absolutely did. That 00:03:58.439 --> 00:04:00.819 classical training provided the formal structure, 00:04:01.120 --> 00:04:04.159 the cage, if you like, for all that lyrical chaos. 00:04:04.840 --> 00:04:07.259 Zevon's songs, they're not like a lot of his 00:04:07.259 --> 00:04:09.580 contemporaries. They're taught. They're rigorously 00:04:09.580 --> 00:04:11.960 structured. They usually wrap up their narrative 00:04:11.960 --> 00:04:14.120 pretty efficiently, almost like a sonata or a 00:04:14.120 --> 00:04:17.279 perfectly crafted short story. That efficiency, 00:04:17.480 --> 00:04:19.720 that sense of structure, I'd argue it comes directly 00:04:19.720 --> 00:04:22.660 from that early serious study of classical music. 00:04:22.800 --> 00:04:24.839 Well, that structural rigor got put on hold, 00:04:24.959 --> 00:04:27.160 at least for a bit, when he made his own big 00:04:27.160 --> 00:04:29.759 leap. His parents divorced. Zivon quits high 00:04:29.759 --> 00:04:33.339 school at 16, moves from L .A. to New York City. 00:04:33.459 --> 00:04:37.579 Why? To try and become a folk singer. And the 00:04:37.579 --> 00:04:39.740 way he got there tells you everything about his 00:04:39.740 --> 00:04:41.720 worldview at the time. He drove a sports car 00:04:41.720 --> 00:04:44.459 his father had won in a card game. No way. Yeah. 00:04:45.050 --> 00:04:47.009 That car is just the perfect metaphor for his 00:04:47.009 --> 00:04:49.170 early life, isn't it? High risk, high reward, 00:04:49.310 --> 00:04:52.129 and maybe slightly illicit. He went from the 00:04:52.129 --> 00:04:54.589 structured world of Stravinsky's home to the 00:04:54.589 --> 00:04:58.220 bohemian hustle of the New York folk scene. And 00:04:58.220 --> 00:05:01.220 the decade that followed, roughly 65 to 75, it 00:05:01.220 --> 00:05:03.920 was just a grind, wasn't it? Early hustles, false 00:05:03.920 --> 00:05:07.600 starts. He formed a folk rock duo for a bit called 00:05:07.600 --> 00:05:10.000 Lime and Cybill, deliberately lowercase with 00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:12.399 a high school friend, Violet Santangelo. They 00:05:12.399 --> 00:05:14.279 actually had one minor hit, a little splash. 00:05:14.519 --> 00:05:17.759 Their single Follow Me, which Zivon and Santangelo 00:05:17.759 --> 00:05:20.920 co -wrote, it hit number 65 on the Billboard 00:05:20.920 --> 00:05:24.540 pop charts in 66. But that little bit of success, 00:05:24.839 --> 00:05:27.930 it just vanished. almost immediately. The duo 00:05:27.930 --> 00:05:29.689 fell apart pretty quickly and Zvon had to pivot 00:05:29.689 --> 00:05:31.629 again. So he started taking whatever gigs he 00:05:31.629 --> 00:05:33.689 could find, moved into session work, writing 00:05:33.689 --> 00:05:35.970 jingles. I guess that's the ultimate practical 00:05:35.970 --> 00:05:38.209 use for that classical structure training, right? 00:05:38.329 --> 00:05:40.790 Pretty much. He wrote tracks for pop groups, 00:05:40.990 --> 00:05:44.910 notably the Turtles, songs like The Seasons and 00:05:44.910 --> 00:05:46.670 Outside Chant. And this is where you start seeing 00:05:46.670 --> 00:05:49.069 that narrative style peek through, even in the 00:05:49.069 --> 00:05:52.230 margins. His song She Quit Me got re -recorded, 00:05:52.230 --> 00:05:54.529 gender flipped, as He Quit Me by Leslie Miller. 00:05:54.689 --> 00:05:57.069 And it ended up on the soundtrack for Midnight 00:05:57.069 --> 00:06:00.779 Cowboy in 1969. Right. Being able to write this 00:06:00.779 --> 00:06:03.959 character driven kind of melancholic piece for 00:06:03.959 --> 00:06:06.519 a major film soundtrack. It showed he was ready 00:06:06.519 --> 00:06:08.459 for bigger things, even if the world wasn't quite 00:06:08.459 --> 00:06:10.860 ready for him yet. His official debut solo album, 00:06:11.000 --> 00:06:12.860 Wanted Dead or Alive, that came out in 1970, 00:06:13.439 --> 00:06:17.639 masterminded by the famously eccentric Kim Fowley. 00:06:17.800 --> 00:06:21.000 But the response was. Well, silence. Yeah, a 00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:22.920 complete commercial flop, fold almost nothing. 00:06:23.079 --> 00:06:26.500 So this failure basically forced Zavon back into 00:06:26.500 --> 00:06:28.560 a support role. He toured extensively in the 00:06:28.560 --> 00:06:31.079 early 70s with the Everly Brothers, both before 00:06:31.079 --> 00:06:33.680 and after their initial split. He wasn't just 00:06:33.680 --> 00:06:35.939 playing keys. He was the band leader, the musical 00:06:35.939 --> 00:06:38.300 coordinator, always working, but always kind 00:06:38.300 --> 00:06:40.660 of in the shadows. This decade of frustration, 00:06:40.899 --> 00:06:42.779 I think it's key to some of the bitterness you 00:06:42.779 --> 00:06:44.600 hear later on. And the ultimate sign of that 00:06:44.600 --> 00:06:47.600 frustration came in 1975. This marks the pivotal 00:06:47.600 --> 00:06:51.410 span. Spanish interlude, as some call it. Dissatisfaction 00:06:51.410 --> 00:06:53.529 basically being broke. It forced him to flee 00:06:53.529 --> 00:06:56.389 L .A. He ended up in Sitges near Barcelona in 00:06:56.389 --> 00:06:57.930 Spain. Yeah, playing in this little place called 00:06:57.930 --> 00:07:00.930 a Dubliner bar. And there he runs into this real 00:07:00.930 --> 00:07:04.290 character, a mercenary named David Lindell. And 00:07:04.290 --> 00:07:07.230 in that environment, that exile, Zevon really 00:07:07.230 --> 00:07:11.170 found his voice. He and Lindell co -wrote Roland 00:07:11.170 --> 00:07:14.029 the Headless Thompson Gunner. That song about 00:07:14.029 --> 00:07:16.209 the Norwegian mercenary whose head gets blown 00:07:16.209 --> 00:07:19.149 off in the Congo, but he keeps haunting the conflict 00:07:19.149 --> 00:07:22.610 zones. It's the perfect encapsulation of Zevon's 00:07:22.610 --> 00:07:25.509 genius, isn't it? It's geopolitical. It's violent, 00:07:25.709 --> 00:07:30.250 deeply cynical and somehow oddly heroic. It's 00:07:30.250 --> 00:07:32.550 the moment his Pulp Fiction brain really merged 00:07:32.550 --> 00:07:34.829 with that structural discipline. That Spanish 00:07:34.829 --> 00:07:37.439 exile. It was the crucible, really. When Zayvon 00:07:37.439 --> 00:07:40.399 came back to Los Angeles September 75, the timing 00:07:40.399 --> 00:07:42.620 was just perfect. And the change was immediate. 00:07:42.800 --> 00:07:44.920 He moved right into the heart of the L .A. music 00:07:44.920 --> 00:07:47.379 aristocracy. That's putting it mildly. He literally 00:07:47.379 --> 00:07:49.420 roomed with Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham. 00:07:49.459 --> 00:07:51.439 Right when Fleetwood Mac was hitting its absolute 00:07:51.439 --> 00:07:53.879 peak. Exactly. He didn't return to the basement 00:07:53.879 --> 00:07:56.480 apartment. He returned to the penthouse suite 00:07:56.480 --> 00:07:59.220 of rock success, basically. But the real force 00:07:59.220 --> 00:08:01.629 multiplier here was Jackson Browne. Brown saw 00:08:01.629 --> 00:08:04.730 the talent, that raw, unsung potential. He stepped 00:08:04.730 --> 00:08:08.470 in, produced, and really promoted Zevon's self 00:08:08.470 --> 00:08:12.129 -titled Major League debut in 1976. And this 00:08:12.129 --> 00:08:14.230 album, it was a calculated, deliberate effort 00:08:14.230 --> 00:08:17.649 to make Zevon a star. The guest list just screams 00:08:17.649 --> 00:08:19.810 that intention. Oh, yeah. It reads like a who's 00:08:19.810 --> 00:08:23.410 who of 1976 L .A. rock. Nix, Buckingham, Mick 00:08:23.410 --> 00:08:25.750 Fleetwood, John McVie, members of the Eagles, 00:08:25.949 --> 00:08:28.269 Carl Wilson, Linda Ronstadt, Bonnie Raitt. It 00:08:28.269 --> 00:08:30.410 was basically the L .A. music establishment saying, 00:08:30.490 --> 00:08:32.830 OK, this guy, he's one of us. Now listen up. 00:08:33.029 --> 00:08:35.970 Critically, it was a home run. The 1979 Rolling 00:08:35.970 --> 00:08:38.129 Stone record guy called it a masterpiece right 00:08:38.129 --> 00:08:40.850 away. And that view held the 2004 edition called 00:08:40.850 --> 00:08:43.730 it Zevon's most realized work. But here's the 00:08:43.730 --> 00:08:45.710 paradox you hinted at. Masterpiece critically, 00:08:45.929 --> 00:08:47.809 yeah, but commercially, it only peaked at number 00:08:47.809 --> 00:08:50.149 189 on the charts. Why do you think there was 00:08:50.149 --> 00:08:52.620 such a massive gap? Between the critical love 00:08:52.620 --> 00:08:55.139 and the commercial, well, shrug, the L .A. scene 00:08:55.139 --> 00:08:57.639 then was so defined by that earnest, sensitive, 00:08:57.799 --> 00:09:00.120 acoustic thing from Brown or the super slick, 00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:02.639 radio -friendly pop rock of the Eagles, Zevon 00:09:02.639 --> 00:09:04.899 was doing something just fundamentally different. 00:09:05.139 --> 00:09:08.500 He was too dark, too ironic, often too wordy 00:09:08.500 --> 00:09:11.240 for mainstream radio, maybe. While the L .A. 00:09:11.259 --> 00:09:13.860 sound was all about California dreaming, Zevon 00:09:13.860 --> 00:09:16.940 was doing California noir. You know, the desperation, 00:09:17.179 --> 00:09:19.379 the alcoholism, the seedy underbelly. He was 00:09:19.379 --> 00:09:21.840 the literary grit that just didn't quite fit 00:09:21.840 --> 00:09:24.259 with the prevailing earnestness. He sang about 00:09:24.259 --> 00:09:26.580 junkies and outlaws, not just breaking up. That 00:09:26.580 --> 00:09:28.720 said, though, he had a really fierce champion 00:09:28.720 --> 00:09:31.240 in Linda Ronstadt. Her influence in getting his 00:09:31.240 --> 00:09:33.419 work out there in the mid -70s, you just can't 00:09:33.419 --> 00:09:35.340 overstate it. She was one of the biggest stars 00:09:35.340 --> 00:09:36.899 on the planet, and she covered several of his 00:09:36.899 --> 00:09:40.840 songs on her huge 1976 album, Hasten Down the 00:09:40.840 --> 00:09:43.279 Wind. She did. She recorded the title track, 00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:46.500 Hasten Down the Wind, plus Carmelita. Poor Pitiful 00:09:46.500 --> 00:09:50.620 Me and Maham's Radio. That massive exposure driven 00:09:50.620 --> 00:09:53.200 by her star power, that's what gave Zeevon his 00:09:53.200 --> 00:09:55.899 initial cult following and probably the financial 00:09:55.899 --> 00:09:59.100 cushion he needed. Ronstadt basically made Zeevon's 00:09:59.100 --> 00:10:01.220 darkness palatable for a mainstream audience. 00:10:01.639 --> 00:10:04.539 And if you really dig into that 1976 album, Warren 00:10:04.539 --> 00:10:07.299 Zeevon, you see those dark themes reaching full 00:10:07.299 --> 00:10:09.279 maturity. These aren't just pop songs. They feel 00:10:09.279 --> 00:10:11.720 more like short screenplays. Take Carmelita. 00:10:11.779 --> 00:10:14.820 It's this devastating but somehow empathetic 00:10:14.820 --> 00:10:18.259 portrait of a heroin addict in LA, or Frank and 00:10:18.259 --> 00:10:21.419 Jesse James. It manages to feel historically 00:10:21.419 --> 00:10:24.879 epic, like an outlaw ballad, but also deeply 00:10:24.879 --> 00:10:27.960 personal, almost like an Aaron Copland score 00:10:27.960 --> 00:10:30.580 adapted for rock music. But the really cutting 00:10:30.580 --> 00:10:33.080 tracks, the autobiographical ones, they reveal 00:10:33.080 --> 00:10:35.500 the personal cost behind those narratives. The 00:10:35.500 --> 00:10:37.559 French inhaler is a perfect example. It's this 00:10:37.559 --> 00:10:40.759 scathing, almost vicious critique of the L .A. 00:10:40.820 --> 00:10:43.399 music scene and the emotional toll it takes. 00:10:43.539 --> 00:10:46.080 And what makes it so raw, so potent, is knowing 00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:47.740 that the subject of that critique, the French 00:10:47.740 --> 00:10:49.980 inhaler, was actually Marilyn Livingston. his 00:10:49.980 --> 00:10:52.100 longtime girlfriend, the mother of his son, Jordan. 00:10:52.580 --> 00:10:55.700 He was processing these intense, failing relationships 00:10:55.700 --> 00:10:58.080 through the guise of hard -boiled fiction. It's 00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:00.399 brutal honesty, but masked as genre writing. 00:11:00.500 --> 00:11:02.360 It's quite something. And the album closes with 00:11:02.360 --> 00:11:05.159 an absolute masterpiece, Desperados Under the 00:11:05.159 --> 00:11:07.360 Eaves, which is maybe the clearest chronicle 00:11:07.360 --> 00:11:09.820 we have of his rapidly worsening alcoholism at 00:11:09.820 --> 00:11:12.539 that time. It's dark foreshadowing, a self -aware 00:11:12.539 --> 00:11:14.639 portrait of a man basically drowning in the L 00:11:14.639 --> 00:11:17.279 .A. sunshine. That self -awareness, though, this 00:11:17.279 --> 00:11:19.720 ability to dissect his own failings with almost 00:11:19.720 --> 00:11:22.259 clinical precision. That's what makes his music 00:11:22.259 --> 00:11:25.019 resonate so deeply. He was setting the stage 00:11:25.019 --> 00:11:26.860 for his commercial peak with Excitable Boy in 00:11:26.860 --> 00:11:29.799 78. But at the same time, he was painting this 00:11:29.799 --> 00:11:32.940 vivid picture of his own imminent collapse. So 00:11:32.940 --> 00:11:35.700 Excitable Boy. Produced again by Jackson Brown 00:11:35.700 --> 00:11:38.220 and also Waddy Wachtel this time, this is the 00:11:38.220 --> 00:11:40.720 one that finally married the critical acclaim 00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:43.500 with actual popular success. It did. It gave 00:11:43.500 --> 00:11:45.519 us the single that defined him for millions, 00:11:45.860 --> 00:11:49.019 Werewolves of London. With Mick Freitwood and 00:11:49.019 --> 00:11:51.679 John McVie backing him up, that track finally 00:11:51.679 --> 00:11:54.620 brought his macabre, deadpan humor right into 00:11:54.620 --> 00:11:57.259 the mainstream, reached number 21. It's such 00:11:57.259 --> 00:11:58.980 a ridiculous premise, but treated with absolute 00:11:58.980 --> 00:12:01.679 rock sincerity. But the deeper cuts, they still 00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:04.610 showed that narrative ambition. Lawyers, guns 00:12:04.610 --> 00:12:06.730 and money. A phrase that just entered the rock 00:12:06.730 --> 00:12:08.950 lexicon, didn't it? It's like a three minute 00:12:08.950 --> 00:12:11.009 cinematic nightmare. Feels like a whole movie 00:12:11.009 --> 00:12:13.250 script condensed down. And then, of course, there's 00:12:13.250 --> 00:12:17.429 the title track. Excitable boy. Wow. That's an 00:12:17.429 --> 00:12:20.389 astonishingly dark song. A black comedy about 00:12:20.389 --> 00:12:22.830 a juvenile sociopath's murderous prom night. 00:12:23.100 --> 00:12:26.460 It's classic Zevon linking the violence to pop 00:12:26.460 --> 00:12:28.960 culture by referencing the Everly Brothers' Little 00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:31.919 Suzy from Wake Up Little Suzy. It just shows 00:12:31.919 --> 00:12:34.279 his structural intelligence again, weaving the 00:12:34.279 --> 00:12:37.120 pop past into his own horrific present. And the 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:39.759 critics confirmed his place. Paul Nelson, who 00:12:39.759 --> 00:12:41.919 is a really respected editor at Rolling Stone, 00:12:42.139 --> 00:12:44.539 he called Excitable Boy one of the most significant 00:12:44.539 --> 00:12:47.879 releases of the 1970s. Put Zevon right up there 00:12:47.879 --> 00:12:50.320 alongside Brown, Neil Young, Bruce Springsteen. 00:12:50.419 --> 00:12:53.220 For that brief shining moment, Zevon was pretty 00:12:53.220 --> 00:12:55.720 much universally seen as a major voice. And, 00:12:55.720 --> 00:12:58.600 well, in true Zevon fashion, right? That huge 00:12:58.600 --> 00:13:01.100 success immediately preceded his most intense 00:13:01.100 --> 00:13:03.629 personal and professional crisis. The follow 00:13:03.629 --> 00:13:05.769 -up album, Bad Luck Streak in Dancing School, 00:13:05.889 --> 00:13:08.769 in 1980, it kind of signaled the storm clouds 00:13:08.769 --> 00:13:11.009 gathering. This album is really critical because 00:13:11.009 --> 00:13:13.450 of who it's dedicated to. Not a musician, not 00:13:13.450 --> 00:13:15.669 a manager, but the famous detective novelist 00:13:15.669 --> 00:13:18.210 Ross MacDonald, real name Ken Miller. And the 00:13:18.210 --> 00:13:19.710 story behind that connection, it tells you everything 00:13:19.710 --> 00:13:21.610 about what was going on then. It's fascinating. 00:13:22.350 --> 00:13:24.529 MacDonald apparently became a kind of mentor 00:13:24.529 --> 00:13:27.070 figure to Zevon during this crisis. They met 00:13:27.070 --> 00:13:29.149 during a really difficult, painful intervention 00:13:29.149 --> 00:13:32.230 organized by Paul Nelson and some others trying 00:13:32.230 --> 00:13:34.990 to curb Zevon's just crippling drug and alcohol 00:13:34.990 --> 00:13:38.389 abuse. And MacDonald, who was a master chronicler 00:13:38.389 --> 00:13:40.529 of L .A. dysfunction and hidden family guilt, 00:13:40.669 --> 00:13:43.429 he dealt with his own alcoholism. He sort of 00:13:43.429 --> 00:13:45.889 offered Zevon a path, or at least some understanding. 00:13:46.190 --> 00:13:49.009 So the dedication confirms it that Bad Luck Streak 00:13:49.009 --> 00:13:51.029 wasn't just about record sales, it was internal. 00:13:51.230 --> 00:13:53.789 The album itself was a bit uneven, though it 00:13:53.789 --> 00:13:56.789 sold okay, had a modest hit cover of a certain 00:13:56.789 --> 00:13:59.610 girl, and that collaboration with Bruce Springsteen, 00:13:59.629 --> 00:14:02.559 Genie needs a shooter. And on the personal side, 00:14:02.700 --> 00:14:04.720 there's the ballad Empty -Handed Heart, which 00:14:04.720 --> 00:14:07.039 featured Linda Ronstadt again. That one addressed 00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:09.519 his divorce from his wife, Crystal. So again, 00:14:09.639 --> 00:14:11.740 the man writing about mercenaries and werewolves 00:14:11.740 --> 00:14:14.139 is simultaneously laying bare his own personal 00:14:14.139 --> 00:14:17.179 failures. He followed that up with the 1980 live 00:14:17.179 --> 00:14:19.620 album Stand in the Fire, dedicated to Martin 00:14:19.620 --> 00:14:23.019 Scorsese, another nod to his cinematic narrative 00:14:23.019 --> 00:14:25.710 ambitions. But the real professional crash came 00:14:25.710 --> 00:14:29.190 with The Envoy in 1982. Sources suggest the album 00:14:29.190 --> 00:14:32.090 was actually a return to form, quality -wise. 00:14:32.350 --> 00:14:34.570 Had some great tracks like Ain't That Pretty 00:14:34.570 --> 00:14:37.990 At All, but commercially, it absolutely bombed. 00:14:38.070 --> 00:14:40.549 A shocking flop, really, given the quality of 00:14:40.549 --> 00:14:42.830 the writing. It's also notable for cementing 00:14:42.830 --> 00:14:45.909 that literary connection. It had his first documented 00:14:45.909 --> 00:14:47.950 songwriting collaboration with the professional 00:14:47.950 --> 00:14:50.549 fiction writer Thomas McQuaid on the song The 00:14:50.549 --> 00:14:53.450 Overdraft and the title track. dedicated to the 00:14:53.450 --> 00:14:56.250 U .S. Special Envoy Philip Habib. Zivon even 00:14:56.250 --> 00:14:58.789 got a very nice letter of appreciation on State 00:14:58.789 --> 00:15:00.669 Department stationery for that one. But high 00:15:00.669 --> 00:15:03.490 art and diplomatic kudos don't pay the bills, 00:15:03.549 --> 00:15:05.309 right? The ultimate indignity, I think, came 00:15:05.309 --> 00:15:08.230 in 1983. Asylum records dropped him flat out 00:15:08.230 --> 00:15:10.629 because of poor sales. And how did he find out? 00:15:10.649 --> 00:15:12.649 He read about it in the random notes column of 00:15:12.649 --> 00:15:15.370 Rolling Stone. Ouch. That kind of devastating 00:15:15.370 --> 00:15:18.830 public humiliation combined with just... deep 00:15:18.830 --> 00:15:21.230 personal dissatisfaction. His marriage was over 00:15:21.230 --> 00:15:23.490 and engagement ended shortly after it led to 00:15:23.490 --> 00:15:25.409 a profound relapse. He basically just retreated 00:15:25.409 --> 00:15:27.370 from the world, gave in completely to severe 00:15:27.370 --> 00:15:29.649 drug and alcohol abuse. This was rock bottom. 00:15:29.789 --> 00:15:32.750 That moment, though, it seems like it forced 00:15:32.750 --> 00:15:36.929 the essential pivot point. In 1984, Zevon checked 00:15:36.929 --> 00:15:39.870 himself into a rehab clinic in Minnesota, and 00:15:39.870 --> 00:15:43.129 he finally achieved lasting sobriety, a really 00:15:43.129 --> 00:15:44.929 hard one piece that would pretty much define 00:15:44.929 --> 00:15:47.409 the rest of his career. This feels like the moment. 00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:49.840 Maybe connected to those conversations with Ross 00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:52.500 McDonald. Where Zevon stopped running from his 00:15:52.500 --> 00:15:54.990 own desperados, you know. McDonald's characters 00:15:54.990 --> 00:15:57.230 often suffer from this inherited guilt. They 00:15:57.230 --> 00:15:59.350 had to confront the ghosts of the past to find 00:15:59.350 --> 00:16:02.149 any kind of redemption. Zavon had to face his 00:16:02.149 --> 00:16:04.830 own ghosts, the alcoholism, the chaotic past 00:16:04.830 --> 00:16:07.269 to save his life, and ultimately his career. 00:16:07.490 --> 00:16:10.250 And his reemergence in 1987 with Sentimental 00:16:10.250 --> 00:16:13.029 Hygiene wasn't just a comeback. It was a stylistic 00:16:13.029 --> 00:16:15.990 rebirth, too, largely thanks to a really unexpected 00:16:15.990 --> 00:16:18.570 group of collaborators. The REM connection was 00:16:18.570 --> 00:16:20.450 huge, wasn't it? The core members, Bill Barry, 00:16:20.610 --> 00:16:23.159 Peter Buck, Mike Mills. They didn't just guest 00:16:23.159 --> 00:16:25.059 on a track or two, they basically functioned 00:16:25.059 --> 00:16:27.580 as his studio band for the whole album. And this 00:16:27.580 --> 00:16:29.840 gave Zavon this much thicker, more driving rock 00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:32.039 sound, completely different from the smooth LA 00:16:32.039 --> 00:16:34.220 production people knew him for. It was like a 00:16:34.220 --> 00:16:37.159 stylistic baptism by fire. Yeah, it really forced 00:16:37.159 --> 00:16:40.100 him out of that 70s troubadour mold and straight 00:16:40.100 --> 00:16:42.440 into the sound of the late 80s alt -rock scene. 00:16:43.019 --> 00:16:45.940 And the themes, naturally, reflected his sobriety. 00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:49.519 Songs like Detox Mansion, Bad Karma, which had 00:16:49.519 --> 00:16:52.500 Michael Stipe on backing vocals, they felt painfully 00:16:52.500 --> 00:16:55.580 immediate, very autobiographical. And that collaboration 00:16:55.580 --> 00:16:57.940 turned out to be so fruitful it actually led 00:16:57.940 --> 00:17:00.899 to this side project, this blues rock outfit 00:17:00.899 --> 00:17:04.099 called Hindu Love Gods. Apparently on the last 00:17:04.099 --> 00:17:06.400 day of the sentimental hygiene sessions, they 00:17:06.400 --> 00:17:08.160 just had this all -night jam session covering 00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:10.670 rock and blues standards just for fun. And those 00:17:10.670 --> 00:17:12.650 spontaneous recordings, they got released in 00:17:12.650 --> 00:17:15.549 1990 as their only album. And unexpectedly, it 00:17:15.549 --> 00:17:17.990 produced a modern rock hit, a cover of Prince's 00:17:17.990 --> 00:17:21.150 Raspberry Beret, hit number 23, which kind of 00:17:21.150 --> 00:17:23.269 showed Zevon still had this revitalized commercial 00:17:23.269 --> 00:17:25.849 appeal, even in a fun side project. Throughout 00:17:25.849 --> 00:17:28.890 this period, this renewed creative focus, Zevon 00:17:28.890 --> 00:17:31.069 really leaned into his lifelong love of hard 00:17:31.069 --> 00:17:33.460 -boiled fiction. His collaborations with actual 00:17:33.460 --> 00:17:35.779 writers became a real hallmark of his process. 00:17:36.059 --> 00:17:38.240 He wasn't just a fan reading their books. He 00:17:38.240 --> 00:17:40.740 was friends with this whole pantheon of crime, 00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:44.519 humor, and gonzo writers. People like Carl Hyasson, 00:17:44.619 --> 00:17:47.759 Mitch Albom, Hunter S. Thompson. Thompson, especially, 00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:51.200 was a close friend. Zebon would apparently book 00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:53.279 gigs in Colorado just so he could go hang out 00:17:53.279 --> 00:17:55.990 with them. But Zevon wasn't trying to replicate 00:17:55.990 --> 00:17:58.890 Thompson's chaos. Carl Hyasson actually noted 00:17:58.890 --> 00:18:01.750 Zevon was more disciplined than Hunter. Warren 00:18:01.750 --> 00:18:04.289 was meticulous. And that meticulousness, that's 00:18:04.289 --> 00:18:07.099 key. He applied the structural rigor he learned 00:18:07.099 --> 00:18:09.880 from Stravinsky to the gonzo subject matter he 00:18:09.880 --> 00:18:12.079 loved from Thompson. What's so interesting about 00:18:12.079 --> 00:18:14.660 that pulp fiction mindset is how it translated 00:18:14.660 --> 00:18:17.119 into his late career songwriting. It seems like 00:18:17.119 --> 00:18:18.839 these writers taught him the power of economy 00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:22.119 using specific geographically rooted details 00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:24.920 to make a scene just leap off the page or out 00:18:24.920 --> 00:18:27.500 of the speakers. Exactly what you hear in Lawyers, 00:18:27.519 --> 00:18:29.660 Guns and Money. He even took this connection 00:18:29.660 --> 00:18:32.059 to the stage. He serves as the musical coordinator 00:18:32.059 --> 00:18:34.460 and sometimes guitarist for the Rock Bottom Remainers. 00:18:34.460 --> 00:18:36.559 Oh yeah, the band of famous writers. Exactly. 00:18:37.079 --> 00:18:40.220 Stephen King. Dave Barry, Matt Groening, Amy 00:18:40.220 --> 00:18:43.140 Tan, Zavon was the rock and roll link for the 00:18:43.140 --> 00:18:45.740 literary world. It really highlights his unique 00:18:45.740 --> 00:18:48.059 position, bridging that high -octane narrative 00:18:48.059 --> 00:18:50.599 style and actual rock performance. After a bit 00:18:50.599 --> 00:18:53.599 of a low point with Mutineer in 1995, Zavon had 00:18:53.599 --> 00:18:56.460 his second major comeback around the year 2000, 00:18:56.619 --> 00:18:59.180 and he turned his sharp focus towards themes 00:18:59.180 --> 00:19:01.720 of mortality, a move that turned out to be, well, 00:19:01.839 --> 00:19:04.460 morbidly prescient. That was Life Will Kill Ya, 00:19:04.700 --> 00:19:07.720 2000. Had that beautiful reflective track, Don't 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:10.019 Let Us Get Sick. It was a genuine resurgence, 00:19:10.180 --> 00:19:13.220 critically and commercially. It proved that Zavon's 00:19:13.220 --> 00:19:15.640 hard -won clarity had given him this new thematic 00:19:15.640 --> 00:19:18.240 depth. He followed that up with My Rides Here 00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:21.349 in 2002. My Rides Here felt astonishingly timely, 00:19:21.569 --> 00:19:23.490 didn't it? Featuring tracks like Hit Somebody, 00:19:23.750 --> 00:19:25.769 the hockey song, which he co -wrote with Mitch 00:19:25.769 --> 00:19:28.150 Albom. It even had Paul Schaefer and a spoken 00:19:28.150 --> 00:19:30.490 vocal bit from David Letterman. And it was around 00:19:30.490 --> 00:19:32.789 this time, too, that he formed this very simple 00:19:32.789 --> 00:19:35.349 human bond with the actor Billy Bob Thornton. 00:19:35.549 --> 00:19:37.509 Yeah, apparently Zevon and Thornton connected 00:19:37.509 --> 00:19:39.930 over their shared struggle with obsessive compulsive 00:19:39.930 --> 00:19:44.210 disorder, OCD. The story goes Zevon saw Thornton 00:19:44.210 --> 00:19:46.769 doing some specific ritual with his male and 00:19:46.769 --> 00:19:48.609 just walked up and said, oh, so you have that. 00:19:48.650 --> 00:19:52.089 too. After years of performing that excitable 00:19:52.089 --> 00:19:54.990 boy persona, Zevon's sober maturity seemed to 00:19:54.990 --> 00:19:56.910 allow him to connect with people on this basis 00:19:56.910 --> 00:20:00.609 of simple shared vulnerability. that shared vulnerability 00:20:00.609 --> 00:20:04.009 it brings us to the final and just profoundly 00:20:04.009 --> 00:20:07.410 moving chapter of his life in 2002 even though 00:20:07.410 --> 00:20:10.230 he was sober working out looking pretty fit zevon 00:20:10.230 --> 00:20:12.450 started developing these really alarming symptoms 00:20:12.450 --> 00:20:15.690 dizziness a chronic cough and this is where zevon's 00:20:15.690 --> 00:20:18.309 lifelong phobia of doctors proved fatal he admitted 00:20:18.309 --> 00:20:20.670 it later with that characteristic dark humor 00:20:20.670 --> 00:20:23.349 he said he'd made a tactical error in not going 00:20:23.349 --> 00:20:25.769 to a physician for 20 years. The diagnosis was 00:20:25.769 --> 00:20:29.329 pleural mesothelioma, an aggressive cancer usually 00:20:29.329 --> 00:20:32.490 caused by asbestos exposure affecting the lining 00:20:32.490 --> 00:20:35.450 of the lungs and chest. The exact source was 00:20:35.450 --> 00:20:38.569 never confirmed, but his son Jordan, he suggested 00:20:38.569 --> 00:20:41.250 Zevon... might have been exposed way back as 00:20:41.250 --> 00:20:43.470 a kid playing in the attic of his father's carpet 00:20:43.470 --> 00:20:46.970 store in arizona a final tragic link back to 00:20:46.970 --> 00:20:50.089 the world of stumpy zevon facing a terminal diagnosis 00:20:50.089 --> 00:20:53.849 zevon refused treatments he thought might incapacitate 00:20:53.849 --> 00:20:57.089 him might stop him from working instead he made 00:20:57.089 --> 00:21:00.009 this incredibly brave decision to use the time 00:21:00.009 --> 00:21:02.609 he had left to record one final album the wind 00:21:03.079 --> 00:21:04.740 And it wasn't just an album recording, was it? 00:21:04.740 --> 00:21:07.440 It felt more like this collective emotional outpouring. 00:21:07.460 --> 00:21:10.259 An absolutely incredible all -star cast of friends 00:21:10.259 --> 00:21:12.440 and collaborators just rallied around him to 00:21:12.440 --> 00:21:14.880 make sure that record got finished. Bruce Springsteen, 00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:17.359 Jackson Browne, Tom Petty, Don Henley, Joe Walsh, 00:21:17.380 --> 00:21:20.200 Emmylou Harris, just to name a few. The album 00:21:20.200 --> 00:21:22.140 itself kind of became a living tribute while 00:21:22.140 --> 00:21:24.740 he was still making it. This final act also really 00:21:24.740 --> 00:21:27.579 highlights that absolutely critical relationships 00:21:27.579 --> 00:21:30.849 Yvonne had with David Letterman. Zavon credited 00:21:30.849 --> 00:21:34.150 Letterman as being the best friend my music ever 00:21:34.150 --> 00:21:36.809 had. And he had a long history of the show, right? 00:21:36.990 --> 00:21:39.210 Frequently filling in for Paul Schaffer as band 00:21:39.210 --> 00:21:41.569 leader. He was a beloved insider there. And the 00:21:41.569 --> 00:21:43.769 public culmination of this final chapter was 00:21:43.769 --> 00:21:46.529 Zavon's appearance as the only guest on The Late 00:21:46.529 --> 00:21:50.210 Show on October 30, 2002. It was broadcast almost 00:21:50.210 --> 00:21:52.369 like this profound, incredibly candid conversation 00:21:52.369 --> 00:21:56.490 about life, death, art. Zavon spoke so openly 00:21:56.490 --> 00:21:59.779 about his diagnosis, his regrets. But he kept 00:21:59.779 --> 00:22:02.220 his composure, kept his humor. And this is the 00:22:02.220 --> 00:22:04.000 moment where that most famous insight of his 00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:06.019 life was delivered. Letterman asked him if he'd 00:22:06.019 --> 00:22:07.720 learned anything profound about life and death 00:22:07.720 --> 00:22:10.380 through all this. And Zavon responded with just 00:22:10.380 --> 00:22:12.559 the hard -won clarity of a man who'd faced his 00:22:12.559 --> 00:22:15.000 demons, won a temporary peace. He said people 00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:16.819 should know how much you're supposed to enjoy 00:22:16.819 --> 00:22:19.740 every sandwich. Just a message of profound, simple 00:22:19.740 --> 00:22:22.279 gratitude, delivered without a shred of sentimentality. 00:22:22.500 --> 00:22:25.539 His final public performance that night, Roland 00:22:25.539 --> 00:22:28.750 the Headless Thompson Gunner. Hmm. played specifically 00:22:28.750 --> 00:22:30.710 at Letterman's request. It kind of linked the 00:22:30.710 --> 00:22:32.529 beginning of his real career to its very end. 00:22:32.589 --> 00:22:36.410 But the final private gesture, that was maybe 00:22:36.410 --> 00:22:38.609 the most telling. In the green room after the 00:22:38.609 --> 00:22:41.170 show, Zivon gave Letterman the guitar he always 00:22:41.170 --> 00:22:42.869 used when he played on the show and just quietly 00:22:42.869 --> 00:22:45.109 said, here, I want you to have this, take good 00:22:45.109 --> 00:22:48.349 care of it. Just the ultimate, understated, powerful 00:22:48.349 --> 00:22:51.410 thank you to the man who gave his music its biggest 00:22:51.410 --> 00:22:54.670 spotlight for so long. Zivon died of mesothelioma 00:22:54.670 --> 00:22:58.579 less than a year later. September 7, 2003. He 00:22:58.579 --> 00:23:01.720 was only 56. His ashes were scattered, fittingly, 00:23:01.720 --> 00:23:03.660 I think, in the Pacific Ocean near Los Angeles, 00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:06.660 the city that really defined both his chaos and 00:23:06.660 --> 00:23:08.759 his brilliance. But the recognition didn't stop 00:23:08.759 --> 00:23:11.339 when he died. The Wind was certified gold pretty 00:23:11.339 --> 00:23:14.299 soon after its release. He earned five posthumous 00:23:14.299 --> 00:23:16.480 Grammy nominations, including Song of the Year 00:23:16.480 --> 00:23:18.660 for that incredibly moving ballad, Keep Me in 00:23:18.660 --> 00:23:21.039 Your Heart. And finally, the professional validation 00:23:21.039 --> 00:23:24.380 that had eluded him for so long arrived. The 00:23:24.380 --> 00:23:27.339 Wind won two Grammys. which were the very first 00:23:27.339 --> 00:23:30.700 Grammys of his entire 30 -plus year career. It 00:23:30.700 --> 00:23:33.660 won Best Contemporary Folk Album, and his duet 00:23:33.660 --> 00:23:35.599 with Bruce Springsteen, Disorder in the House, 00:23:35.740 --> 00:23:38.920 won Best Rock Performance by a Duo or Group with 00:23:38.920 --> 00:23:41.650 Vocal. His legacy clearly continues to influence 00:23:41.650 --> 00:23:43.829 the literary world just as much as the music 00:23:43.829 --> 00:23:47.009 world. Stephen King dedicated his novel Dr. Sleep 00:23:47.009 --> 00:23:49.210 to Zavon, specifically noting that his albums 00:23:49.210 --> 00:23:51.369 are dense with stories and brilliant images. 00:23:51.730 --> 00:23:54.470 And Bruce Springsteen, he summed up the unique 00:23:54.470 --> 00:23:56.589 power of Zavon's writing perfectly, didn't he? 00:23:56.670 --> 00:23:59.009 He noted Zavon could write something with real 00:23:59.009 --> 00:24:01.339 meaning, and it was funny, too. And we absolutely 00:24:01.339 --> 00:24:03.319 have to note the ultimate official recognition, 00:24:03.579 --> 00:24:05.460 his recent induction into the Rock and Roll Hall 00:24:05.460 --> 00:24:08.019 of Fame in 2025, specifically in the musical 00:24:08.019 --> 00:24:10.359 influence category, which feels like a really 00:24:10.359 --> 00:24:12.500 fitting honor for a man who took the rawest, 00:24:12.500 --> 00:24:15.019 most chaotic parts of American culture and somehow 00:24:15.019 --> 00:24:17.240 forged them into rock poetry. Hashtag check out. 00:24:17.299 --> 00:24:19.900 So what this deep dive really shows, I think, 00:24:19.900 --> 00:24:22.779 is that. Zevon's whole artistic identity was 00:24:22.779 --> 00:24:26.019 built on tension, right? Tension between classical 00:24:26.019 --> 00:24:29.380 rigor and street chaos, between L .A. sunshine 00:24:29.380 --> 00:24:33.059 and this geopolitical darkness. He was the guy 00:24:33.059 --> 00:24:35.380 who could find humor, violence and this profound 00:24:35.380 --> 00:24:38.859 longing all in the same four minute song, that 00:24:38.859 --> 00:24:41.039 four minute screenplay. He took the most diverse 00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:44.970 sources imaginable. His father's mob ties, Stravinsky's 00:24:44.970 --> 00:24:47.329 compositional theories, the narratives of hard 00:24:47.329 --> 00:24:49.730 -boiled fiction, his own brutal fight with addiction, 00:24:49.910 --> 00:24:52.150 and synthesize them into this utterly unique 00:24:52.150 --> 00:24:55.109 body of work. His music, much like his life, 00:24:55.269 --> 00:24:57.589 was really a testament to finding beauty, finding 00:24:57.589 --> 00:25:00.089 truth, right in the middle of the mess. And his 00:25:00.089 --> 00:25:01.869 final wish for those last recordings was pretty 00:25:01.869 --> 00:25:03.869 simple, wasn't it? To remind people that this 00:25:03.869 --> 00:25:06.250 was a nice deal, life. It's such a simple sentiment, 00:25:06.309 --> 00:25:08.890 but achieved through years of incredibly complicated 00:25:08.890 --> 00:25:11.569 living. We've really dug into the dark narratives 00:25:11.569 --> 00:25:26.190 that... So we leave you, the listener, with this 00:25:26.190 --> 00:25:29.609 final thought to mull over. That decade between 00:25:29.609 --> 00:25:31.869 the commercial failure of The Envoy and his big 00:25:31.869 --> 00:25:34.009 comeback with the R .E .M. collaboration, that 00:25:34.009 --> 00:25:36.710 was arguably the darkest period of Zivane's life. 00:25:37.259 --> 00:25:39.599 Now, considering those powerful themes of confronting 00:25:39.599 --> 00:25:42.180 the past that he shared with Ross McDonald, what 00:25:42.180 --> 00:25:44.880 specific event in that period was it in you dedicating 00:25:44.880 --> 00:25:47.160 that album to McDonald or really absorbing his 00:25:47.160 --> 00:25:49.480 books? Or was it the decisive action of checking 00:25:49.480 --> 00:25:52.160 himself into rehab in Minnesota in 1984? What 00:25:52.160 --> 00:25:54.480 best marks the moment when Warren Zevon stopped 00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:56.420 being just a character in his own disaster movie 00:25:56.420 --> 00:25:58.960 and finally decided to face the music? Which 00:25:58.960 --> 00:26:00.839 moment was truly the beginning of him learning 00:26:00.839 --> 00:26:02.079 to enjoy every sandwich?