WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.960 Welcome to the Deep Dive. We take your sources, 00:00:02.299 --> 00:00:04.980 boil them down, get right to the good stuff, 00:00:05.059 --> 00:00:06.879 the things you really need to know. That's the 00:00:06.879 --> 00:00:09.220 plan. And today, well today we're looking at 00:00:09.220 --> 00:00:12.500 someone with, let's call it a pretty stark dual 00:00:12.500 --> 00:00:14.599 identity. Maybe one of the most incredible ones 00:00:14.599 --> 00:00:16.300 in entertainment right now. Oh yeah, definitely. 00:00:16.420 --> 00:00:19.899 You've got this guy who's on one hand an Emmy 00:00:19.899 --> 00:00:23.260 -nominated Hollywood comedy writer. Right. Very 00:00:23.260 --> 00:00:25.539 polished world. Right, writing for big shows. 00:00:25.739 --> 00:00:29.500 Exactly. And then on the other hand, he's this... 00:00:30.170 --> 00:00:33.990 outrageously successful, super explicit outlaw 00:00:33.990 --> 00:00:37.789 country musician. Just unbelievably filthy. But 00:00:37.789 --> 00:00:40.090 people love it. It's this huge contrast. So we're 00:00:40.090 --> 00:00:41.729 talking about Benjamin Isaac Hoffman. That's 00:00:41.729 --> 00:00:44.250 him. The writer, comedian, producer. And then 00:00:44.250 --> 00:00:48.399 there's Wheeler Walker Jr. The alter ego. The 00:00:48.399 --> 00:00:51.159 uncensored country star. So our mission today 00:00:51.159 --> 00:00:53.460 really is to unpack this. How does one person 00:00:53.460 --> 00:00:56.060 do both? We need to look at his chart success, 00:00:56.299 --> 00:00:58.479 which is kind of unique. Definitely unique. And 00:00:58.479 --> 00:01:00.520 understand what he's trying to do with this character. 00:01:00.679 --> 00:01:02.740 Is it just satire? Is he genuinely trying to 00:01:02.740 --> 00:01:06.180 critique modern country music? Maybe even save 00:01:06.180 --> 00:01:08.900 it in his own weird way? Yeah, it's a big question. 00:01:08.959 --> 00:01:10.900 We've got some great sources here that really 00:01:10.900 --> 00:01:14.659 lay out this wild journey. And they start right 00:01:14.659 --> 00:01:17.140 at the beginning. Benjamin Isaac Hoffman, born 00:01:17.140 --> 00:01:19.140 in Lexington, Kentucky. And here's a fun fact 00:01:19.140 --> 00:01:21.340 right off the bat. Connects him to music early 00:01:21.340 --> 00:01:25.299 on. His younger brother is Scott Hoffman. Ah, 00:01:25.519 --> 00:01:27.980 baby daddy. Exactly. Baby daddy. The bassist 00:01:27.980 --> 00:01:30.879 for the Scissor Sisters. So, you know, music's 00:01:30.879 --> 00:01:33.040 in the family. It's in the DNA, yeah. Yeah. But 00:01:33.040 --> 00:01:36.640 the way Den went about it is radically different. 00:01:36.780 --> 00:01:38.519 Radically different is putting it mildly. So 00:01:38.519 --> 00:01:43.240 how does someone with these, like, legit... mainstream 00:01:43.240 --> 00:01:46.819 comedy chops become one of the most streamed 00:01:46.819 --> 00:01:49.620 country artists on the planet without, and this 00:01:49.620 --> 00:01:53.120 is key, without any FM radio play. Zero. It's 00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:54.560 incredible. And that's where we have to start, 00:01:54.599 --> 00:01:56.659 right? We need to be that foundation. Understand 00:01:56.659 --> 00:01:58.780 the Ben Hoffman side first. The professional 00:01:58.780 --> 00:02:01.459 side. Because Wheeler Walker Jr., he wasn't just 00:02:01.459 --> 00:02:04.000 some random idea. He was, well, he was engineered 00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:06.379 by someone who really knew what they were doing. 00:02:06.540 --> 00:02:08.949 Okay, let's dig into that. The groundwork. Because 00:02:08.949 --> 00:02:11.689 before, you know, Redneck shit the album, Ben 00:02:11.689 --> 00:02:14.150 Hoffman was pretty deep in the Hollywood comedy 00:02:14.150 --> 00:02:16.849 scene. And not just as a stand up, but as a writer, 00:02:16.930 --> 00:02:19.169 a producer. He understands how TV gets made. 00:02:19.289 --> 00:02:21.629 Oh, absolutely. His skills go way beyond just 00:02:21.629 --> 00:02:24.969 telling jokes. It's structure, production, timing, 00:02:25.150 --> 00:02:27.750 the whole package. He wasn't just trying to get 00:02:27.750 --> 00:02:30.560 on shows. He was creating them. Right. And that 00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:33.020 foundation is, like you said, solid. He built 00:02:33.020 --> 00:02:35.780 it up over years. Exceptionally solid. I mean, 00:02:35.800 --> 00:02:37.699 the first big thing was his own show, right? 00:02:37.919 --> 00:02:40.020 The band show. On Comedy Central, yeah, 2013. 00:02:40.620 --> 00:02:43.300 Creator, host, executive producer, running the 00:02:43.300 --> 00:02:46.139 whole thing. That's major experience, even if 00:02:46.139 --> 00:02:48.620 it only ran for one season. Building a show from 00:02:48.620 --> 00:02:51.219 scratch on a big network like that. Exactly. 00:02:51.219 --> 00:02:54.060 It's the proving ground. And crucially, our sources 00:02:54.060 --> 00:02:56.560 point out, that's where Wheeler Walker Jr. actually 00:02:56.560 --> 00:02:58.789 first showed up. as a character on that show. 00:02:58.909 --> 00:03:01.750 Ah, okay. So the seed was planted right there 00:03:01.750 --> 00:03:04.789 on his own platform. Incubated, yeah. But then 00:03:04.789 --> 00:03:07.090 look at his writing credits. They show incredible 00:03:07.090 --> 00:03:10.090 range. He wrote for a sports show with Norm MacDonald. 00:03:10.229 --> 00:03:12.349 Norm MacDonald? That's a very specific kind of 00:03:12.349 --> 00:03:16.930 comedy. Oh, yeah. Super dry, cynical, really 00:03:16.930 --> 00:03:19.430 subversive. You've got to master that deadpan, 00:03:19.530 --> 00:03:21.969 that sustained character thing, to work with 00:03:21.969 --> 00:03:24.210 Norm. And that skill, that sustained character 00:03:24.210 --> 00:03:26.699 work. That's pure Wheeler Walker Jr., right? 00:03:26.740 --> 00:03:29.060 Keeping that persona going for years. Absolutely 00:03:29.060 --> 00:03:32.199 vital. But then look at the contrast. He goes 00:03:32.199 --> 00:03:36.219 from that super niche cult comedy to the late, 00:03:36.219 --> 00:03:38.639 late show with James Corden, peak mainstream 00:03:38.639 --> 00:03:42.620 network TV. Wow. Okay. Total shift. He was a 00:03:42.620 --> 00:03:45.139 staff writer. They wrote like 38 episodes between 00:03:45.139 --> 00:03:48.659 2015, 2016. Think about that adjustment. Massive 00:03:48.659 --> 00:03:50.580 adjustment. You're going from Norm Macdonald's 00:03:50.580 --> 00:03:53.159 world to writing, you know, clean, fast turnaround 00:03:53.159 --> 00:03:55.719 stuff for a huge, broad audience. It shows he 00:03:55.719 --> 00:03:58.139 can adapt his voice, meet the technical demands. 00:03:58.219 --> 00:04:00.199 He knows how different writers rooms work. And 00:04:00.199 --> 00:04:01.960 then there's animation, too. He wrote for Archer. 00:04:02.099 --> 00:04:04.860 Yep. Southbound and down. Vision Quest. Highly 00:04:04.860 --> 00:04:07.819 acclaimed show. Animation requires serious world 00:04:07.819 --> 00:04:09.599 building. And it's not just sitcoms. He's got 00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:12.680 these big live event credits, too. MTV Video 00:04:12.680 --> 00:04:15.379 Music Awards, the Comedy Central roast of James 00:04:15.379 --> 00:04:18.300 Franco. Writing for a roast. I mean, that's about 00:04:18.300 --> 00:04:20.939 finding the absolute sharpest, most offensive 00:04:20.939 --> 00:04:23.819 joke possible. But making it work live, structuring 00:04:23.819 --> 00:04:26.560 it right. Exactly. It's about calibrating offense 00:04:26.560 --> 00:04:29.519 for impact. He clearly understands that. So he's 00:04:29.519 --> 00:04:31.720 got this mastery of different comedic styles, 00:04:32.019 --> 00:04:36.399 subtle satire, mass appeal, brutal jokes. And 00:04:36.399 --> 00:04:38.920 he kept acting and producing, too. Little part's 00:04:38.920 --> 00:04:41.879 a new girl. Arrested development. Remember, FBI 00:04:41.879 --> 00:04:46.620 guy, hashtag one. Ha! Yes. Classic. And more 00:04:46.620 --> 00:04:49.480 recently, he created and ran hoops for Netflix. 00:04:50.120 --> 00:04:52.300 Animated show. Right. The basketball coach one. 00:04:52.699 --> 00:04:54.699 Canceled after a season, but still, he was the 00:04:54.699 --> 00:04:56.800 showrunner. Yeah. Building another world. So 00:04:56.800 --> 00:04:58.259 you put it all together, you've got this Emmy 00:04:58.259 --> 00:05:00.439 -nominated producer, a guy who knows Hollywood 00:05:00.439 --> 00:05:03.139 inside and out. Contacts, funding know -how, 00:05:03.300 --> 00:05:05.660 deep understanding of media. And that's the guy 00:05:05.660 --> 00:05:08.139 who decides to become Wheeler Walker Jr. It's 00:05:08.139 --> 00:05:10.180 fascinating how that professional stability actually 00:05:10.180 --> 00:05:12.779 fueled the rebellion. Well, it's more than just 00:05:12.779 --> 00:05:15.240 fuel. It's the engine and the toolkit. His comedy 00:05:15.240 --> 00:05:17.480 background gave him, first, production value. 00:05:17.639 --> 00:05:19.579 That first Wheeler album wasn't some cheap demo. 00:05:19.720 --> 00:05:22.439 Dave Cobb produced it. Huge Nashville name. Right. 00:05:22.519 --> 00:05:25.480 Instant credibility. Second, he understands narrative. 00:05:26.220 --> 00:05:29.439 Character consistency. Keeping Wheeler believable, 00:05:29.500 --> 00:05:32.540 or at least consistently outrageous, over years 00:05:32.540 --> 00:05:35.779 and albums. And third, maybe the most important 00:05:35.779 --> 00:05:38.579 thing, he knew how to execute the joke. The big 00:05:38.579 --> 00:05:41.519 high concept joke. Which is? Wheeler Walker Jr. 00:05:41.779 --> 00:05:45.120 isn't just a dirty singer. He's a long form multimedia 00:05:45.120 --> 00:05:48.199 critique. of the entire country music industry, 00:05:48.360 --> 00:05:51.680 cleverly disguised as the crudest guy imaginable. 00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:54.339 Okay, okay. So the TV background gave him the 00:05:54.339 --> 00:05:57.579 skills to pull off this massive, sustained, satirical 00:05:57.579 --> 00:06:00.199 performance piece. Exactly. He knew how to structure 00:06:00.199 --> 00:06:02.319 it, how to package it, how to make it go viral, 00:06:02.439 --> 00:06:04.220 how to make it profitable. He wasn't just mad 00:06:04.220 --> 00:06:07.240 at Nashville. He was building a product, a very 00:06:07.240 --> 00:06:09.980 specific, very provocative product. Designed 00:06:09.980 --> 00:06:11.639 to push buttons and make money doing it. And 00:06:11.639 --> 00:06:14.399 that product, that glorious, filthy product. 00:06:15.079 --> 00:06:17.899 It started as that skit on The Ben Show. Back 00:06:17.899 --> 00:06:20.779 in 2013, yeah. Performing the song that kind 00:06:20.779 --> 00:06:23.000 of became his calling card. Eating pussy, kicking 00:06:23.000 --> 00:06:25.600 ass. Yeah, sets the tone immediately, doesn't 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:27.579 it? Understatement of the year. But, you know, 00:06:27.660 --> 00:06:30.519 behind the shock value, there's real motivation. 00:06:31.259 --> 00:06:34.019 Huffman's pretty open about it. He uses Wheeler 00:06:34.019 --> 00:06:36.079 to vent his frustration with modern country. 00:06:36.540 --> 00:06:38.779 Specifically bro country. Right, that was the 00:06:38.779 --> 00:06:40.699 big target. Exactly. We should probably define 00:06:40.699 --> 00:06:42.779 that quickly for anyone who missed that particular... 00:06:42.779 --> 00:06:47.100 Yeah. Brig. Good idea. So bro country. Huge in 00:06:47.100 --> 00:06:50.600 the 2010s. Think like heavy pop and hip hop beats, 00:06:50.779 --> 00:06:53.540 drum loops. This is the sizers. Yeah. And the 00:06:53.540 --> 00:06:56.939 lyrics. Mostly about trucks, beer, tailgates, 00:06:56.959 --> 00:07:00.120 girls in cutoff shorts. Pretty repetitive stuff. 00:07:00.379 --> 00:07:02.740 Very formulaic. And a lot of country purists 00:07:02.740 --> 00:07:06.100 saw it as, well, sanitized, commercialized, lacking 00:07:06.100 --> 00:07:08.160 the storytelling heart of traditional country. 00:07:08.319 --> 00:07:11.600 Okay. So Wheeler Walker Jr. is the reaction to 00:07:11.600 --> 00:07:13.860 that. He's the raw, unfiltered antidote. His 00:07:13.860 --> 00:07:16.120 whole backstory is built on that critique. He's 00:07:16.120 --> 00:07:18.319 the unsigned Nashville guy who was too crude 00:07:18.319 --> 00:07:20.180 for radio. Right, the guy they wouldn't play. 00:07:20.399 --> 00:07:22.420 And his mission, he says, is to bring back that 00:07:22.420 --> 00:07:25.100 classic outlaw country vibe, but cranked way 00:07:25.100 --> 00:07:27.839 past 11. Songs so raw that get you kicked off 00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:30.019 the Opry stage instantly. So he's fighting the 00:07:30.019 --> 00:07:32.600 mainstream polish with extreme crudeness. But 00:07:32.600 --> 00:07:35.980 here's the twist. He's anti -establishment, but 00:07:35.980 --> 00:07:38.980 he uses the new establishment about... The internet, 00:07:39.180 --> 00:07:42.139 streaming, social media to build this audience. 00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:44.920 Proving there's still a market for that uncensored 00:07:44.920 --> 00:07:47.139 stuff, just not through the old channels. Precisely. 00:07:47.139 --> 00:07:48.779 And this is where the Hollywood producer brain 00:07:48.779 --> 00:07:51.439 comes back in. The launch of the first album, 00:07:51.600 --> 00:07:54.839 Redneck Shit, in 2016. Yeah. Super strategic. 00:07:54.839 --> 00:07:57.379 We mentioned Dave Cobb producing, which gives 00:07:57.379 --> 00:08:00.319 it musical legitimacy. The launch. Yeah. The 00:08:00.319 --> 00:08:02.439 very first place you could stream it. Where was 00:08:02.439 --> 00:08:05.819 it? Pornhub. Pause. Seriously. Pornhub. Yep. 00:08:06.079 --> 00:08:10.009 Not just some random music site. Porn hub. Think 00:08:10.009 --> 00:08:12.410 about that decision. OK, that's that's a statement. 00:08:12.709 --> 00:08:14.970 It's more than just shark value. Like you said, 00:08:15.089 --> 00:08:17.589 it's marketing genius in a really weird way. 00:08:17.730 --> 00:08:20.529 It immediately screams the normal rules do not 00:08:20.529 --> 00:08:22.829 apply here. Forget radio edits. Forget clean 00:08:22.829 --> 00:08:25.350 marketing. This is something else entirely deliberate, 00:08:25.709 --> 00:08:28.529 memorable, provocative. And he put his own money 00:08:28.529 --> 00:08:30.310 behind it, too. Right. You mentioned that earlier. 00:08:30.529 --> 00:08:32.470 Yeah. And this quote from Hoffman really drives 00:08:32.470 --> 00:08:36.970 it home. He said, I took my fucking life savings. 00:08:37.610 --> 00:08:40.289 And I gave it all to Dave and said, let's make 00:08:40.289 --> 00:08:42.490 the album without any fucking record company 00:08:42.490 --> 00:08:46.269 telling me what to do. Wow. Okay. So he literally 00:08:46.269 --> 00:08:49.409 bought his freedom. Bought his own uncensored 00:08:49.409 --> 00:08:52.590 voice. If a label had funded it, they would demand 00:08:52.590 --> 00:08:54.570 it changes. It would kill the whole joke, the 00:08:54.570 --> 00:08:56.889 whole premise. Using his mainstream earnings 00:08:56.889 --> 00:09:00.450 to fund his anti -mainstream persona, the irony 00:09:00.450 --> 00:09:03.429 is thick. It's layers upon layers. And this whole 00:09:03.429 --> 00:09:06.330 package, this complex character, he gets compared 00:09:06.330 --> 00:09:08.590 to some interesting figures. Like who? Well, 00:09:08.710 --> 00:09:11.250 sources mention Chinga Chavin. Okay, the raunchy 00:09:11.250 --> 00:09:14.389 musical comedy guy. Right. Yeah. Then Andy Kaufman. 00:09:14.509 --> 00:09:16.710 For the performance art aspect. Never breaking 00:09:16.710 --> 00:09:18.649 character. Exactly. Always staying in the joke. 00:09:19.080 --> 00:09:21.779 And David Allen Coe. The original outlaw. The 00:09:21.779 --> 00:09:24.539 genuine, gritty, controversial country figure. 00:09:24.799 --> 00:09:26.820 So Wheeler's like a blend of all three. Yeah. 00:09:26.899 --> 00:09:28.879 The musical skill, the commitment to the bit, 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:32.019 and that hardcore rebel attitude. It's smart, 00:09:32.139 --> 00:09:34.159 because just being offensive gets old quick. 00:09:34.500 --> 00:09:37.299 But if the music's actually good, and the performance 00:09:37.299 --> 00:09:40.600 is committed... Then the satire works. And it 00:09:40.600 --> 00:09:43.919 clearly did work, commercially speaking. Which 00:09:43.919 --> 00:09:45.659 is kind of the next big surprise. Yeah, let's 00:09:45.659 --> 00:09:47.220 talk about the charts, because this is where 00:09:47.220 --> 00:09:49.700 it gets really undeniable. The industry had to 00:09:49.700 --> 00:09:52.539 notice. This wasn't just an internet joke. Not 00:09:52.539 --> 00:09:55.580 at all. That first album, Redneck Shit 2016, 00:09:56.159 --> 00:10:01.860 it sold 5 ,900 copies in its first week, which 00:10:01.860 --> 00:10:03.820 is decent for an indie release. But where did 00:10:03.820 --> 00:10:07.100 it chart? Number nine on the Billboard Hot Country 00:10:07.100 --> 00:10:09.820 Albums chart. Number nine. An independently funded, 00:10:09.940 --> 00:10:12.879 completely explicit album in the top 10 country 00:10:12.879 --> 00:10:15.600 chart. Unheard of, basically. Especially back 00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:18.419 then. But wait, there's more. Go on. It also 00:10:18.419 --> 00:10:20.899 debuted at number one on the Billboard Top Comedy 00:10:20.899 --> 00:10:25.059 Albums chart. At the same time. Whoa! Okay. Country 00:10:25.059 --> 00:10:27.419 and comedy charts top 10 simultaneously. Yep. 00:10:27.690 --> 00:10:29.629 The sources say it was the first album in over 00:10:29.629 --> 00:10:32.129 a decade to pull that off. It proved he wasn't 00:10:32.129 --> 00:10:34.809 just one thing. He hit both audiences perfectly. 00:10:35.110 --> 00:10:37.029 That's incredible. And it wasn't a fluke, right? 00:10:37.070 --> 00:10:39.649 The second album. Old Wheeler, 2017. He did it 00:10:39.649 --> 00:10:41.809 again. Debuted number 10 on country, number one 00:10:41.809 --> 00:10:43.789 on comedy again. Stayed at number one comedy 00:10:43.789 --> 00:10:46.509 for three weeks straight. And sold even more 00:10:46.509 --> 00:10:48.789 first week, right? Like 700, 800 copies. Yeah. 00:10:49.289 --> 00:10:51.429 Established a pattern. This wasn't fading away. 00:10:51.570 --> 00:10:54.309 He had a real dedicated audience. And the key 00:10:54.309 --> 00:10:57.450 thing, we have to keep stressing this. Zero FM 00:10:57.450 --> 00:11:00.009 radio support. Absolutely none. This was all 00:11:00.009 --> 00:11:02.570 streaming, social media buzz, digital sales. 00:11:02.809 --> 00:11:04.669 It basically proved you could build a successful 00:11:04.669 --> 00:11:07.769 country music career completely outside the Nashville 00:11:07.769 --> 00:11:10.529 machine. If the content was strong enough and 00:11:10.529 --> 00:11:13.350 authentic enough, even crudely authentic. The 00:11:13.350 --> 00:11:15.370 audience was there waiting for something raw, 00:11:15.509 --> 00:11:17.950 something uncensored. He tapped right into it. 00:11:18.009 --> 00:11:20.110 So the music press, they had to react, right? 00:11:20.190 --> 00:11:23.460 They couldn't ignore. Top ten albums. Nope. Rolling 00:11:23.460 --> 00:11:25.559 Stone had a great line about the first album, 00:11:25.639 --> 00:11:29.360 called it unfathomably obscene and undeniably 00:11:29.360 --> 00:11:31.779 offensive. Sounds about right. But then they 00:11:31.779 --> 00:11:34.200 added it was also goddamn funny, and importantly, 00:11:34.440 --> 00:11:37.659 far from just an X -rated novelty record. Ah, 00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:40.840 so they acknowledged the music itself had merit. 00:11:40.899 --> 00:11:43.700 It wasn't just shock value. Exactly. That validation 00:11:43.700 --> 00:11:46.600 was huge. It framed him less as just a prankster 00:11:46.600 --> 00:11:50.460 and more as this. weirdly legitimate, profane 00:11:50.460 --> 00:11:52.820 critic of the genre. The sources call him an 00:11:52.820 --> 00:11:55.899 experiment in free speech, right? A platform 00:11:55.899 --> 00:11:58.659 against censorship. Yeah, his success became 00:11:58.659 --> 00:12:03.120 this walking, talking argument against the sanitized 00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:05.580 Nashville mainstream. And the reach became global, 00:12:05.740 --> 00:12:07.399 didn't it? Wasn't there a stat about streaming? 00:12:07.700 --> 00:12:11.220 By 2021, yeah. He was reportedly the third most 00:12:11.220 --> 00:12:14.570 streamed country artist worldwide. Third? That's 00:12:14.570 --> 00:12:17.909 insane. Ahead of probably dozens of artists getting 00:12:17.909 --> 00:12:20.850 constant radio play. Built entirely on organic 00:12:20.850 --> 00:12:24.440 demand for the explicit stuff. It shows the power 00:12:24.440 --> 00:12:27.080 of finding your niche online. And he leaned into 00:12:27.080 --> 00:12:29.759 that digital world, right, with podcasts. Oh, 00:12:29.779 --> 00:12:32.059 yeah, masterfully. He did all the big ones, often 00:12:32.059 --> 00:12:34.840 in character. Joe Rogan, Your Mom's House, Church 00:12:34.840 --> 00:12:36.779 of What's Happening Now, Burt Kass. Howard Stern's 00:12:36.779 --> 00:12:38.700 wrap -up show, too. These aren't just podcasts. 00:12:38.840 --> 00:12:40.879 They're huge communities. He bypassed traditional 00:12:40.879 --> 00:12:43.600 music press and talked directly to his audience 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:46.379 as the uncensored guy they loved. Cultivating 00:12:46.379 --> 00:12:49.000 that authenticity, the realness, even if it's 00:12:49.000 --> 00:12:51.399 amplified absurdity, something the polished acts 00:12:51.399 --> 00:12:54.899 couldn't really match. Totally. His success really 00:12:54.899 --> 00:12:57.299 proved that for a certain segment of the audience, 00:12:57.679 --> 00:13:00.320 raw authenticity beats slick production every 00:13:00.320 --> 00:13:02.720 time. Okay, so if you're positioning yourself 00:13:02.720 --> 00:13:05.679 as this anti -censorship, anti -establishment 00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:08.019 figure, conflict is going to follow, right? It's 00:13:08.019 --> 00:13:09.980 pretty much guaranteed. Yeah. And yeah, it found 00:13:09.980 --> 00:13:11.799 Wheeler pretty quickly, showed where the industry 00:13:11.799 --> 00:13:13.659 lines were drawn. What was the first big clash? 00:13:14.100 --> 00:13:17.080 Around the second album, Old Wheeler, in 2017. 00:13:17.620 --> 00:13:20.399 He was using Pledge Music, the crowdfunding site, 00:13:20.580 --> 00:13:23.610 for pre -orders. letting fans fund the uncensored 00:13:23.610 --> 00:13:26.889 thing directly. Smart move. Direct support. Until 00:13:26.889 --> 00:13:29.289 Pledge Music pulled the whole campaign, refunded 00:13:29.289 --> 00:13:31.789 everyone. Why? Too many complaints about obscenity. 00:13:32.009 --> 00:13:35.570 Oh, so the platform blinked. They did. And Hoffman, 00:13:35.610 --> 00:13:37.289 of course, framed it immediately as censorship, 00:13:37.389 --> 00:13:39.929 which fired up his fan base. And didn't his fans 00:13:39.929 --> 00:13:43.389 do something weird in response? Yeah. This is 00:13:43.389 --> 00:13:45.350 peak Wheeler fan base. They got angry about the 00:13:45.350 --> 00:13:48.990 censorship and decided to troll the band Three 00:13:48.990 --> 00:13:52.580 Love Evan online. 311, why them? Apparently, 00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:55.539 they somehow thought 311 was responsible. It 00:13:55.539 --> 00:13:58.419 makes no sense, but it perfectly shows the fan 00:13:58.419 --> 00:14:02.460 base. Loyal, angry, maybe a little misguided, 00:14:02.539 --> 00:14:06.039 but ready to fight the perceived system. Dedicated 00:14:06.039 --> 00:14:08.980 absurdity. Okay, but the conflicts went higher 00:14:08.980 --> 00:14:11.879 up than pledge music, right? Into actual Nashville. 00:14:12.080 --> 00:14:14.240 Oh, yeah. The biggest example involves Maren 00:14:14.240 --> 00:14:16.960 Morris. Grammy winner Maren Morris, big star. 00:14:17.240 --> 00:14:19.830 The very same. They'd recorded a duet for Old 00:14:19.830 --> 00:14:22.169 Wheeler, a song called Fuckin' Around. Okay. 00:14:22.370 --> 00:14:25.649 But Sony Music Nashville, her label, pulled the 00:14:25.649 --> 00:14:27.909 plug. Said she couldn't be on the track. Pulled 00:14:27.909 --> 00:14:30.629 it right before the album release. Wow. So the 00:14:30.629 --> 00:14:33.269 major label directly intervened. Our clean star 00:14:33.269 --> 00:14:35.649 can't associate with this. Pretty much sums it 00:14:35.649 --> 00:14:37.990 up. Even though, ironically, Hoffman had actually 00:14:37.990 --> 00:14:40.169 performed with Morris and Jake Owen at a CMA 00:14:40.169 --> 00:14:42.610 Awards afterparty the year before. So there was 00:14:42.610 --> 00:14:44.529 some connection. But the official association 00:14:44.529 --> 00:14:47.509 on an album, too far for some. Exactly. It shows 00:14:47.509 --> 00:14:49.850 you the corporate firewall. But Hoffman found 00:14:49.850 --> 00:14:52.169 a way around it. He still recorded the song. 00:14:52.570 --> 00:14:54.649 Got Nikki Lane, another great singer -songwriter, 00:14:54.769 --> 00:14:57.350 to do the duet instead. But on the album, she's 00:14:57.350 --> 00:15:01.649 credited as Casey Walker. Ah, Casey Walker. Nice 00:15:01.649 --> 00:15:03.710 little wink there. Kept the song, avoided the 00:15:03.710 --> 00:15:07.230 label issue. Clever. Very clever. But despite 00:15:07.230 --> 00:15:10.009 these fights, his live career just took off. 00:15:10.269 --> 00:15:13.049 The online success definitely translated to ticket 00:15:13.049 --> 00:15:16.110 sales. He toured a lot between 2016 and 2018. 00:15:16.649 --> 00:15:18.649 Extensively across the U .S. And not just tiny 00:15:18.649 --> 00:15:20.950 clubs. He started getting into bigger scenes, 00:15:21.190 --> 00:15:23.809 bridging gaps. Like touring with Kid Rock. Yeah. 00:15:23.889 --> 00:15:27.049 Summer 2018. Kid Rock and Brantley Gilbert on 00:15:27.049 --> 00:15:29.509 the Red -Blooded Rock and Roll Redneck Extravaganza 00:15:29.509 --> 00:15:31.809 Tour. Okay, that positioning makes sense. Leaning 00:15:31.809 --> 00:15:34.190 into that rock outlaw crossover audience. Allowed 00:15:34.190 --> 00:15:36.450 him to play to that crowd but still be the satirical 00:15:36.450 --> 00:15:39.210 voice from within it, almost. But he also got 00:15:39.210 --> 00:15:42.429 embraced by the more serious Americana side, 00:15:42.529 --> 00:15:45.009 too. How so? There's footage from Himmerlin Music 00:15:45.009 --> 00:15:48.049 Festival in 2018. He's on stage performing Sit 00:15:48.049 --> 00:15:50.909 on My Face. Classy. Alongside Tyler Childers 00:15:50.909 --> 00:15:53.389 and Sturgill Simpson. Whoa. Okay, that's significant. 00:15:53.649 --> 00:15:56.529 Childers and Simpson are like the flag bearers 00:15:56.529 --> 00:15:59.070 for modern, respected, non -mainstream country 00:15:59.070 --> 00:16:01.769 and Americana. Exactly. Sharing a stage with 00:16:01.769 --> 00:16:04.210 them. Performing that song. It shows they got 00:16:04.210 --> 00:16:06.860 the joke. They respected the musicality or the 00:16:06.860 --> 00:16:09.919 audacity or both. He was accepted by the serious 00:16:09.919 --> 00:16:12.080 crowd. And didn't he present an award around 00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:14.679 that time, too? Yep. Later that year, at the 00:16:14.679 --> 00:16:17.399 Eric Conner Music Honors and Awards, Hoffman, 00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:20.220 in full Wheeler character, presented an award 00:16:20.220 --> 00:16:23.639 to Tyler Shoulders. That image is amazing. The 00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:26.840 crude satire guy honoring the critically acclaimed 00:16:26.840 --> 00:16:29.399 artist at their own award show. It shows the 00:16:29.399 --> 00:16:31.799 complexity, right? The industry might reject 00:16:31.799 --> 00:16:34.320 the lyrics. But parts of it clearly respected 00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:36.700 the music and the whole project. Okay, fast forward 00:16:36.700 --> 00:16:39.159 a bit. After the touring died down, there was 00:16:39.159 --> 00:16:42.399 that big incident in 2022. The protest. Ah, yeah. 00:16:42.460 --> 00:16:44.419 The Country Music Hall of Fame incident. Classic 00:16:44.419 --> 00:16:46.480 Wheeler really captured his whole point. He got 00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:49.019 kicked out, right? By security. Yep. Removed 00:16:49.019 --> 00:16:50.940 from the property. Because he was protesting 00:16:50.940 --> 00:16:54.360 the Florida -Georgia Line exhibit. FGL Prime. 00:16:54.990 --> 00:16:57.470 Bro country example. Exactly. He had a sign, 00:16:57.590 --> 00:16:59.789 apparently, saying FGL does not belong here. 00:16:59.909 --> 00:17:02.429 Why? What was his argument? His long -running 00:17:02.429 --> 00:17:07.690 argument. Their music is pop, not country. Putting 00:17:07.690 --> 00:17:09.950 them in the Hall of Fame degrades what country 00:17:09.950 --> 00:17:12.700 music is. degrades its history. So it was a physical 00:17:12.700 --> 00:17:15.539 manifestation of his core satire, taking the 00:17:15.539 --> 00:17:17.420 fight right to the heart of the Nashville establishment. 00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:19.680 Perfectly execute a piece of performance art, 00:17:19.759 --> 00:17:22.359 really. Got tons of publicity, obviously, which 00:17:22.359 --> 00:17:24.619 only helped the narrative. The narrative of Wheeler 00:17:24.619 --> 00:17:27.220 as the real outlaw fighting for country music's 00:17:27.220 --> 00:17:29.680 soul. You got it. And it was the perfect setup 00:17:29.680 --> 00:17:33.640 for his comeback. The 2022 comeback tour, which 00:17:33.640 --> 00:17:36.200 kicked off where? At the Ryman Auditorium in 00:17:36.200 --> 00:17:38.660 Nashville, the mother church of country music. 00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:41.240 Headlining the Ryman. After getting kicked off 00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:43.660 the Hall of Fame grounds, the symbolism. Oh, 00:17:43.700 --> 00:17:46.640 it's perfect. His first live show since 2018. 00:17:47.099 --> 00:17:49.660 And how did he promote it? By joking he wanted 00:17:49.660 --> 00:17:53.079 to get canceled. Master of anti -marketing. Using 00:17:53.079 --> 00:17:56.220 the culture war buzzwords, ironically. And did 00:17:56.220 --> 00:17:59.160 it work? The show sold out instantly. And, according 00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:01.079 to the sources, it broke the Ryman's records 00:18:01.079 --> 00:18:03.319 for alcohol and merchandise sales. Broke the 00:18:03.319 --> 00:18:05.700 bar record. And the merch record. That's what 00:18:05.700 --> 00:18:08.519 the sources claim. Which is maybe even more telling 00:18:08.519 --> 00:18:11.039 than just selling tickets. How so? It proves 00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:13.339 the brand is potent. People weren't just buying 00:18:13.339 --> 00:18:16.019 a ticket. They were buying into the whole Wheeler 00:18:16.019 --> 00:18:19.460 Walker Jr. outlaw lifestyle fantasy. Yeah. Drinking. 00:18:19.900 --> 00:18:23.400 Buying the T -shirts, huge loyalty and engagement. 00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:26.400 It proved the whole uncensored satirical thing 00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:29.579 was massively profitable when you connect directly 00:18:29.579 --> 00:18:31.700 with that audience. OK, so let's quickly run 00:18:31.700 --> 00:18:34.119 through the actual music, the albums that built 00:18:34.119 --> 00:18:36.480 this whole phenomenon. Five studio albums now, 00:18:36.539 --> 00:18:38.670 plus a compilation. That's right. All credited 00:18:38.670 --> 00:18:40.930 to Wheeler Walker Jr., all part of this sustained 00:18:40.930 --> 00:18:43.329 performance. And the chart performance was consistent, 00:18:43.430 --> 00:18:46.849 as we said. Redneck shit, 2016. Number one comedy, 00:18:46.950 --> 00:18:49.990 number nine country. Old Wheeler, 2017. Number 00:18:49.990 --> 00:18:52.309 one comedy again, number ten country. Set the 00:18:52.309 --> 00:18:55.890 pattern. Then WWIII in 2018. That one also topped 00:18:55.890 --> 00:18:58.009 the comedy chart and hit number one on the overall 00:18:58.009 --> 00:19:00.230 iTunes country chart. Showed his strength in 00:19:00.230 --> 00:19:02.769 digital sales was huge. Right. Then the comeback 00:19:02.769 --> 00:19:05.710 album in 2022, Sex, Drugs, and Country Music. 00:19:06.069 --> 00:19:08.480 Timed with the tour and - the protest. Smart 00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:11.700 timing. Debut number one on iTunes again. Number 00:19:11.700 --> 00:19:14.259 two on the comedy albums chart. Kept the momentum 00:19:14.259 --> 00:19:19.339 strong. And the latest, 2023, is ROM. Yep. And 00:19:19.339 --> 00:19:21.259 ROM is interesting because the sources mention 00:19:21.259 --> 00:19:24.160 a bit of a sound shift. How so? More rock -oriented. 00:19:24.299 --> 00:19:27.539 A bit heavier than the earlier stuff. Okay. That's 00:19:27.539 --> 00:19:30.140 a potentially important evolution. Why? Well, 00:19:30.180 --> 00:19:32.039 it keeps things fresh, right? If you just kept 00:19:32.039 --> 00:19:34.380 making the exact same traditional country parody, 00:19:34.539 --> 00:19:37.549 maybe the joke wears thin. Shifting towards rock. 00:19:37.710 --> 00:19:40.009 Which a lot of modern outlaw or Americana artists 00:19:40.009 --> 00:19:42.769 do anyway, like Sturgill or Childers dipping 00:19:42.769 --> 00:19:45.670 into rock. Exactly. It keeps the music itself 00:19:45.670 --> 00:19:48.430 evolving, potentially broadening the appeal or 00:19:48.430 --> 00:19:51.589 just keeping his core fans engaged with the sound, 00:19:51.609 --> 00:19:53.970 not just the lyrics. Outlaw country is always 00:19:53.970 --> 00:19:56.410 flirted with rock, so it fits the persona. Keeps 00:19:56.410 --> 00:19:58.609 the project dynamic. Makes sense. And there was 00:19:58.609 --> 00:20:00.569 that compilation too, right? Fuck you, bitch. 00:20:00.730 --> 00:20:03.859 All time greatest hits. Came out in 2020. Mostly 00:20:03.859 --> 00:20:05.740 tracks from the first three albums, but had a 00:20:05.740 --> 00:20:07.940 couple of new ones, Drunk as Fuck and Go Big 00:20:07.940 --> 00:20:10.359 or Go Home. Even the Greatest Hits title is perfectly 00:20:10.359 --> 00:20:13.319 on -brand. Zero subtlety. It's all marketing 00:20:13.319 --> 00:20:16.319 shorthand. And the single titles around the albums 00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:19.619 do the same job. Like for Rem. Singles like Money 00:20:19.619 --> 00:20:22.279 and Bitches, Dump Truck, Finger Blast. Okay. 00:20:24.359 --> 00:20:28.000 Yep. Subtle as a brick. And for sex, drugs, and 00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:30.099 country music, you had Fucked by a Country Boy, 00:20:30.220 --> 00:20:33.180 and She's a Country Music Fan. It really hammers 00:20:33.180 --> 00:20:35.019 home this satirical point, doesn't it? Taking 00:20:35.019 --> 00:20:37.779 those underlying, sometimes vaguely hinted at 00:20:37.779 --> 00:20:40.940 themes in mainstream country, the objectification, 00:20:41.380 --> 00:20:44.900 the simplistic view of relationships or life. 00:20:45.099 --> 00:20:47.619 And just blowing them up, making them grotesquely 00:20:47.619 --> 00:20:49.839 literal and explicit. The comedy comes from that 00:20:49.839 --> 00:20:52.259 extreme amplification. He's basically saying, 00:20:52.339 --> 00:20:54.420 if you guys were really honest, this is what 00:20:54.420 --> 00:20:56.299 it would sound like, stripped of the radio polish. 00:20:56.599 --> 00:20:58.920 This is the logical conclusion of your tropes, 00:20:58.920 --> 00:21:01.670 without the corporate filter. It's a harsh critique 00:21:01.670 --> 00:21:04.549 wrapped in the crudest possible package. Hashtag 00:21:04.549 --> 00:21:06.930 tag tag outro. So wrapping this up, we've really 00:21:06.930 --> 00:21:09.470 traced this incredible paradox. A guy who's a 00:21:09.470 --> 00:21:12.009 total Hollywood insider. Emmy nominated writer, 00:21:12.170 --> 00:21:14.549 producer. Uses all those skills and his own money 00:21:14.549 --> 00:21:17.529 to create this completely offensive anti -establishment 00:21:17.529 --> 00:21:20.529 persona. That becomes wildly successful, commercially 00:21:20.529 --> 00:21:23.890 viable, and even critically relevant as a form 00:21:23.890 --> 00:21:26.710 of musical commentary. So hopefully you, the 00:21:26.710 --> 00:21:29.680 listener, now have that full picture. Ben Hoffman, 00:21:29.799 --> 00:21:32.720 the mainstream pro, meticulously crafting Wheeler 00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:35.839 Walker Jr., the ultimate outlaw. Achieving success 00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:38.940 in both worlds simultaneously. Stability in Hollywood, 00:21:39.140 --> 00:21:42.279 rebellion in Nashville, all built on refusing 00:21:42.279 --> 00:21:44.279 to be censored. Which brings us to that final 00:21:44.279 --> 00:21:46.400 thought, something for you to chew on. Right. 00:21:46.460 --> 00:21:50.079 So think about that Ryman show again. Sold out, 00:21:50.180 --> 00:21:52.660 breaking records for booze and merch. Think about 00:21:52.660 --> 00:21:55.619 his total artistic freedom because he funds himself 00:21:55.619 --> 00:21:59.019 and answers to no label. Does that financial 00:21:59.019 --> 00:22:01.839 independence, that ability to be completely uncensored, 00:22:01.940 --> 00:22:04.099 actually make Wheeler Walker Jr., the satirical 00:22:04.099 --> 00:22:06.759 character, a truer representation of the original 00:22:06.759 --> 00:22:10.140 outlaw country spirit, that rebellious anti -Nashville 00:22:10.140 --> 00:22:13.079 attitude? Then maybe some of the serious signed 00:22:13.079 --> 00:22:15.380 artists he's making fun of who might have to 00:22:15.380 --> 00:22:17.759 compromise more. Exactly. Is the joke character 00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:20.759 in a weird way more genuinely outlaw than the 00:22:20.759 --> 00:22:23.059 real thing sometimes? Something to think about.