WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.980 Welcome back to The Deep Dive. Today we are focusing 00:00:02.980 --> 00:00:06.950 on a career trajectory that is, well, both startlingly 00:00:06.950 --> 00:00:11.369 intense and profoundly strategic. If you have 00:00:11.369 --> 00:00:14.169 been paying attention to major cinema or prestige 00:00:14.169 --> 00:00:16.829 television over the last few years, you are already 00:00:16.829 --> 00:00:19.010 intimately familiar with our subject, even if 00:00:19.010 --> 00:00:20.730 you don't quite realize the full depth of her 00:00:20.730 --> 00:00:23.390 story just yet. It's true. I mean, it's really 00:00:23.390 --> 00:00:25.050 impossible to talk about the current landscape 00:00:25.050 --> 00:00:28.390 of acting without discussing her defining presence. 00:00:28.629 --> 00:00:30.969 Think about the sheer contrast in her recent 00:00:30.969 --> 00:00:32.990 roles. It's quite something. Right. We're talking 00:00:32.990 --> 00:00:34.820 about the... Emotionally intense, compassionate 00:00:34.820 --> 00:00:39.679 caregiver Liz in the, well, crushing drama The 00:00:39.679 --> 00:00:42.380 Whale. And then almost immediately followed by 00:00:42.380 --> 00:00:44.840 the terrifyingly sharp, almost unnerving restaurant 00:00:44.840 --> 00:00:47.700 Metro Delsa in the dark satire The Menu. Yeah, 00:00:47.719 --> 00:00:49.719 completely different energy. Totally. And then 00:00:49.719 --> 00:00:51.780 pivoting completely again into the world of political 00:00:51.780 --> 00:00:55.740 thrillers as the cool, formidable deputy director 00:00:55.740 --> 00:00:58.390 Diane Farr in Netflix's The Night Agent. That 00:00:58.390 --> 00:01:00.490 rain, I mean, moving seamlessly across genres 00:01:00.490 --> 00:01:02.770 like that is exactly the hook, isn't it? She's 00:01:02.770 --> 00:01:04.769 not just working. She's kind of defining the 00:01:04.769 --> 00:01:07.670 most memorable moments in these really highly 00:01:07.670 --> 00:01:11.549 acclaimed projects. So today we are taking a 00:01:11.549 --> 00:01:14.310 deep dive into the life and career of Hong Chao. 00:01:14.450 --> 00:01:17.370 She's the American actress born in 1979 who has, 00:01:17.510 --> 00:01:20.409 frankly, rocketed from... Pretty humble beginnings 00:01:20.409 --> 00:01:24.349 to massive critical acclaim culminating so far 00:01:24.349 --> 00:01:26.870 in her first Academy Award nomination. And our 00:01:26.870 --> 00:01:29.549 mission today really is to move past those headlines 00:01:29.549 --> 00:01:32.450 and unpack the source material. We want to reveal 00:01:32.450 --> 00:01:34.670 the full arc of her success. We really need to 00:01:34.670 --> 00:01:38.069 go right back to the beginning. A powerful personal 00:01:38.069 --> 00:01:41.230 history rooted in a refugee experience. OK. And 00:01:41.230 --> 00:01:43.750 then meticulously track the deliberate. sometimes 00:01:43.750 --> 00:01:46.390 really challenging paths she took, how she became 00:01:46.390 --> 00:01:48.189 this sought -after collaborator, and honestly, 00:01:48.310 --> 00:01:50.549 a true force in modern entertainment. We want 00:01:50.549 --> 00:01:52.870 to show you exactly how adaptation became, well, 00:01:52.909 --> 00:01:55.469 strategy for her. Okay, so let's unpack this 00:01:55.469 --> 00:01:57.870 incredible journey then, because the foundation 00:01:57.870 --> 00:02:01.049 of Hong Xiao's life story isn't just formative. 00:02:01.719 --> 00:02:04.060 It really feels like it imbues her characters 00:02:04.060 --> 00:02:06.560 with this deep sense of resilience. Absolutely. 00:02:06.599 --> 00:02:09.539 Her parents were Vietnamese, and their experience, 00:02:09.659 --> 00:02:11.719 as you mentioned, was part of one of the 20th 00:02:11.719 --> 00:02:14.539 century's largest migrations, the exodus, known 00:02:14.539 --> 00:02:17.439 as the Vietnamese boat people. These were people 00:02:17.439 --> 00:02:19.939 fleeing the country after the Vietnam War ended. 00:02:20.080 --> 00:02:22.099 And it's crucial to understand how high the stakes 00:02:22.099 --> 00:02:24.939 were during this escape back in 1979. Oh, yeah. 00:02:25.289 --> 00:02:27.689 We really cannot stress this enough. This wasn't 00:02:27.689 --> 00:02:30.169 some carefully planned move. It was a desperate 00:02:30.169 --> 00:02:33.289 flight. Just pure survival instinct kicking in. 00:02:33.389 --> 00:02:35.870 Yeah. And the sources, they detail the immense 00:02:35.870 --> 00:02:38.370 peril they faced. Hongshel's mother was actually 00:02:38.370 --> 00:02:40.669 six months pregnant with her at the time. Imagine 00:02:40.669 --> 00:02:44.009 navigating treacherous open waters, hostile environments, 00:02:44.349 --> 00:02:47.300 while six months pregnant. It's almost unimaginable. 00:02:47.319 --> 00:02:49.740 And the tragedy, the danger, it was immediate, 00:02:49.860 --> 00:02:51.860 wasn't it? Her father was actually shot during 00:02:51.860 --> 00:02:54.039 the escape attempt. That's right. Shot and nearly 00:02:54.039 --> 00:02:57.060 bled to death before they managed to reach some 00:02:57.060 --> 00:03:00.020 kind of temporary safe harbor. It's chilling. 00:03:00.240 --> 00:03:03.620 So when you look at her on screen today embodying 00:03:03.620 --> 00:03:08.250 these like steely, in -control figures. You have 00:03:08.250 --> 00:03:11.370 to remember that her life literally began amid 00:03:11.370 --> 00:03:14.310 chaos and violence. It's such a powerful origin 00:03:14.310 --> 00:03:16.729 story. And she wasn't born on American soil. 00:03:16.889 --> 00:03:20.069 She was born in a refugee camp in Thailand, June 00:03:20.069 --> 00:03:23.409 25, 1979. A refugee camp. I mean, that's a place 00:03:23.409 --> 00:03:25.889 defined by limbo, right? By dependence. Exactly. 00:03:25.889 --> 00:03:28.430 And that really sets the stage, doesn't it? For 00:03:28.430 --> 00:03:32.250 a lifetime of needing to adapt, to hustle, just 00:03:32.250 --> 00:03:35.330 to survive. So from that Thai camp, how did they 00:03:35.330 --> 00:03:38.680 get to the U .S.? Eventually, they found a path. 00:03:38.840 --> 00:03:41.319 They were sponsored thanks to the help of a Vietnamese 00:03:41.319 --> 00:03:44.199 Catholic church. That church settled them in 00:03:44.199 --> 00:03:46.879 New Orleans, Louisiana. New Orleans East. That 00:03:46.879 --> 00:03:48.840 became the backdrop for her childhood. Right. 00:03:48.960 --> 00:03:50.960 And her early upbringing there, it stands in 00:03:50.960 --> 00:03:54.180 pretty sharp contrast to the high society worlds 00:03:54.180 --> 00:03:56.879 her characters often occupy now. How so? Well, 00:03:56.900 --> 00:03:58.659 Vietnamese was her first language. She learned 00:03:58.659 --> 00:04:00.639 English later, specifically in school, which 00:04:00.639 --> 00:04:02.599 is a pretty common experience for children of 00:04:02.599 --> 00:04:05.039 recent immigrant families. And the family's economic 00:04:05.039 --> 00:04:07.580 situation also reflects. the immense sacrifices 00:04:07.580 --> 00:04:10.139 her parents were making just to secure a better 00:04:10.139 --> 00:04:12.580 future for their kids. They were really starting 00:04:12.580 --> 00:04:14.819 from scratch, weren't they? The sorts materials 00:04:14.819 --> 00:04:17.399 confirmed they lived in government housing, relied 00:04:17.399 --> 00:04:20.060 on subsidized lunch programs. Yeah, the classic 00:04:20.060 --> 00:04:23.100 markers of financial struggle and, well, necessity. 00:04:23.319 --> 00:04:26.759 Her parents worked constantly, initially as dishwashers. 00:04:26.819 --> 00:04:29.879 Tough work. Very tough. And later they managed 00:04:29.879 --> 00:04:32.620 to open and run a small convenience store. But 00:04:32.620 --> 00:04:35.040 their entire focus... like so many immigrant 00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:38.939 parents, was just this singular goal, making 00:04:38.939 --> 00:04:41.019 sure their children could attend college. Get 00:04:41.019 --> 00:04:44.019 an education, escape the limitations they themselves 00:04:44.019 --> 00:04:47.180 faced. Precisely. It's an enormous pressure. 00:04:47.639 --> 00:04:49.920 you know, for a kid, but also just an incredible 00:04:49.920 --> 00:04:52.139 act of love and sacrifice from the parents. But 00:04:52.139 --> 00:04:54.819 alongside that focus on, you know, getting ahead, 00:04:55.040 --> 00:04:57.220 there's also this really painful acknowledgement 00:04:57.220 --> 00:05:00.060 of the reality her parents faced. Chow herself 00:05:00.060 --> 00:05:02.139 spoke about it in interviews, didn't she? Yes, 00:05:02.139 --> 00:05:04.300 she did. And it's one of the most powerful insights 00:05:04.300 --> 00:05:06.259 in our source material, I think. She was incredibly 00:05:06.259 --> 00:05:08.259 candid about it. What did she say? She spoke 00:05:08.259 --> 00:05:10.759 openly about how her parents were often shunned 00:05:10.759 --> 00:05:13.699 as Asian migrants in the community, mostly because 00:05:13.699 --> 00:05:16.879 they spoke English. with very thick Vietnamese 00:05:16.879 --> 00:05:20.819 accents. And she had this sharp, really painful 00:05:20.819 --> 00:05:23.639 realization, even as a child, that because she 00:05:23.639 --> 00:05:25.519 was American -born and spoke English without 00:05:25.519 --> 00:05:29.019 that heavy accent, well, she felt like she was 00:05:29.019 --> 00:05:32.040 the more acceptable one in society's eyes. Wow, 00:05:32.399 --> 00:05:34.680 that is a staggering observation for a child 00:05:34.680 --> 00:05:37.660 to make about her own parents. Isn't it? She 00:05:37.660 --> 00:05:39.759 recalled that her parents had to stay in the 00:05:39.759 --> 00:05:42.459 background or hide in the broom closet, as she 00:05:42.459 --> 00:05:44.759 put it. Hide in the broom closet. That's heartbreaking. 00:05:45.199 --> 00:05:47.759 It really is. And when you connect that moment, 00:05:47.899 --> 00:05:50.480 observing your parents being marginalized to 00:05:50.480 --> 00:05:53.120 her later roles, think about Audrey Temple, the 00:05:53.120 --> 00:05:55.480 corporate secretary in Homecoming, who's ignored 00:05:55.480 --> 00:05:58.259 until she starts wielding power. Right. Or Lady 00:05:58.259 --> 00:06:00.540 Trio in Watchmen, the cunning mogul who just 00:06:00.540 --> 00:06:02.899 demands respect. Exactly. You see how deeply 00:06:02.899 --> 00:06:05.160 ingrained that theme must be for her navigating 00:06:05.160 --> 00:06:09.240 hostile or exclusionary systems. It absolutely 00:06:09.240 --> 00:06:12.180 connects. I mean, the adaptation required just 00:06:12.180 --> 00:06:15.579 to exist in a new country back then, the language, 00:06:15.699 --> 00:06:18.759 the culture, the economy, it's almost an inherent 00:06:18.759 --> 00:06:21.709 form of acting, of strategy, isn't it? That's 00:06:21.709 --> 00:06:23.610 a great way to put it. And this intellectual 00:06:23.610 --> 00:06:25.410 drive, it was certainly there from the start. 00:06:25.470 --> 00:06:28.029 She graduated from the Louisiana School for Math. 00:06:28.439 --> 00:06:31.560 Science and the Arts, LS MSA. And just so you 00:06:31.560 --> 00:06:33.600 know, that's not your average high school. It's 00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:36.699 a highly selective, competitive state residential 00:06:36.699 --> 00:06:39.500 program for gifted students. Right. So that intellectual 00:06:39.500 --> 00:06:42.259 foundation really underscores her seriousness, 00:06:42.439 --> 00:06:44.639 her ambition. That then carried over to Boston 00:06:44.639 --> 00:06:46.800 University College of Communication. And her 00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:49.100 attendance there, it was made possible, at least 00:06:49.100 --> 00:06:51.660 in part, by crucial financial aid programs like 00:06:51.660 --> 00:06:54.660 Pell Grants, federal aid for students with exceptional 00:06:54.660 --> 00:06:57.439 financial need. Which, again, just underscores 00:06:57.439 --> 00:06:59.600 that. Every step forward was earned, earned through 00:06:59.600 --> 00:07:03.240 intense diligence and, frankly, necessity. Now, 00:07:03.300 --> 00:07:05.160 here's where the early career path gets kind 00:07:05.160 --> 00:07:06.620 of interesting, because she didn't initially 00:07:06.620 --> 00:07:09.519 set out to be an actress, right? Even after choosing 00:07:09.519 --> 00:07:12.579 a communications college. No, she didn't. She 00:07:12.579 --> 00:07:14.620 actually started by studying creative writing. 00:07:14.819 --> 00:07:18.139 OK. But sort of reflecting that parental focus 00:07:18.139 --> 00:07:21.120 on practicality we talked about, she shifted 00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:24.060 her focus around 2001. Her parents apparently 00:07:24.060 --> 00:07:27.560 requested she study something with. a clearer 00:07:27.560 --> 00:07:30.160 path to employment. So that's when she switched 00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:32.240 to film studies. That's right. They were sort 00:07:32.240 --> 00:07:34.779 of guiding her toward a more pragmatic path, 00:07:34.920 --> 00:07:37.560 maybe documentary filmmaking, something perhaps 00:07:37.560 --> 00:07:40.720 a bit removed from the, let's say, volatile world 00:07:40.720 --> 00:07:43.220 of acting. And that initial practical focus, 00:07:43.279 --> 00:07:45.980 it led her to get a job at PBS after college. 00:07:46.339 --> 00:07:48.300 Yeah, she initially thought she'd have a career 00:07:48.300 --> 00:07:51.740 in documentary filmmaking. But the actual pivot 00:07:51.740 --> 00:07:54.310 to acting... It wasn't really a career aspiration 00:07:54.310 --> 00:07:56.550 initially. It was more of a personal challenge. 00:07:56.709 --> 00:07:58.670 How so? Well, it's a great anecdote, actually. 00:07:58.829 --> 00:08:00.730 She didn't pursue acting because she dreamed 00:08:00.730 --> 00:08:03.189 of Hollywood stardom, apparently. She pursued 00:08:03.189 --> 00:08:05.449 it as a way to confront and overcome her own 00:08:05.449 --> 00:08:07.829 introversion. Really? So she started with public 00:08:07.829 --> 00:08:10.689 speaking classes? Exactly. Which then, naturally, 00:08:10.910 --> 00:08:13.629 led her to improv classes. She was literally 00:08:13.629 --> 00:08:15.910 forcing herself into the spotlight, trying to 00:08:15.910 --> 00:08:19.129 build confidence. That takes guts. It does. And 00:08:19.129 --> 00:08:21.149 once she started appearing in other students' 00:08:21.310 --> 00:08:23.889 short films while she was in Boston, her natural 00:08:23.889 --> 00:08:26.550 talent became obvious to other people. But the 00:08:26.550 --> 00:08:29.689 final push, the decisive one, came after meeting 00:08:29.689 --> 00:08:32.539 an encouraging sitcom director. He apparently 00:08:32.539 --> 00:08:34.799 prompted her to just take the leap, move out 00:08:34.799 --> 00:08:37.480 to Los Angeles and commit fully to seeking professional 00:08:37.480 --> 00:08:40.840 acting opportunities. Wow. So that whole journey 00:08:40.840 --> 00:08:44.440 from a refugee camp in Thailand to film student 00:08:44.440 --> 00:08:47.759 in Boston dealing with introversion to a confident 00:08:47.759 --> 00:08:49.759 actress finally stepping onto the L .A. pavement. 00:08:50.549 --> 00:08:52.830 It's just astonishing, isn't it? Truly astonishing. 00:08:53.090 --> 00:08:55.509 Right. So that jumped from New Orleans and Boston 00:08:55.509 --> 00:08:58.309 to Los Angeles. It happened in the mid 2000s. 00:08:58.330 --> 00:09:00.429 And it meant she entered, you know, the classic 00:09:00.429 --> 00:09:02.649 Hollywood grind. The audition circuit. Exactly. 00:09:02.750 --> 00:09:05.929 She began acting professionally in 2006. And 00:09:05.929 --> 00:09:07.850 for several years, she was consistently booking 00:09:07.850 --> 00:09:10.629 those essential stepping stone roles. The kind 00:09:10.629 --> 00:09:13.370 you see on everyone's early resume. The sources 00:09:13.370 --> 00:09:15.830 list those classic guest spots, right? Showing 00:09:15.830 --> 00:09:18.409 up on NCIS, briefly appearing in How I Met Your 00:09:18.409 --> 00:09:21.070 Mother, roles that, you know, pay the bills and 00:09:21.070 --> 00:09:22.610 build an audition reel, but don't necessarily 00:09:22.610 --> 00:09:26.590 define a career yet. Not yet. But her first major 00:09:26.590 --> 00:09:30.029 recurring television role felt, well, perfectly 00:09:30.029 --> 00:09:33.470 calibrated, actually. It was Treme. Ah, the HBO 00:09:33.470 --> 00:09:35.730 series set in New Orleans. Exactly. It ran from 00:09:35.730 --> 00:09:39.340 2010 to 2013. And it felt fitting, didn't it, 00:09:39.399 --> 00:09:41.879 that one of her first substantive jobs brought 00:09:41.879 --> 00:09:43.840 her right back to the culture and landscape of 00:09:43.840 --> 00:09:46.059 her formative years. Yeah, full circle in a way. 00:09:46.159 --> 00:09:49.620 And then the jump to the big screen came in 2014. 00:09:50.360 --> 00:09:53.899 She secured her first feature film role in Inherent 00:09:53.899 --> 00:09:56.279 Vice. Directed by the iconic Paul Thomas Anderson. 00:09:56.500 --> 00:09:59.419 Right. Landing a role with a... Director of that 00:09:59.419 --> 00:10:02.159 prestige. I mean, in theory, that should be the 00:10:02.159 --> 00:10:04.799 immediate catalyst for massive career acceleration, 00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:06.840 shouldn't it? You would absolutely assume the 00:10:06.840 --> 00:10:09.399 doors would just swing wide open. But the sources, 00:10:09.500 --> 00:10:11.919 they reveal a pretty brutal reality check after 00:10:11.919 --> 00:10:14.399 that. Oh. After Inherent Vice premiered, she 00:10:14.399 --> 00:10:17.519 hit a severe dry patch, like really dry. For 00:10:17.519 --> 00:10:19.700 two whole years, she apparently couldn't get 00:10:19.700 --> 00:10:21.559 a single audition for another film role. Two 00:10:21.559 --> 00:10:25.179 years? Seriously? After a PTA film? Yeah. It's 00:10:25.179 --> 00:10:28.340 just a stark reminder that even... you know, 00:10:28.340 --> 00:10:30.700 talent and association with major directors, 00:10:30.940 --> 00:10:34.220 it can't always insulate you from the industry's 00:10:34.220 --> 00:10:36.519 volatility. It's tough out there. Wow. OK, so 00:10:36.519 --> 00:10:38.559 this two year drought, it's actually crucial 00:10:38.559 --> 00:10:40.580 then to understanding her career resilience. 00:10:40.700 --> 00:10:42.809 Absolutely. She didn't quit. She didn't give 00:10:42.809 --> 00:10:45.169 up. She actually retreated to the stage. Ah, 00:10:45.389 --> 00:10:48.590 theater. Exactly. Which she openly credited later 00:10:48.590 --> 00:10:51.330 for strengthening her craft. She landed a key 00:10:51.330 --> 00:10:53.990 role in Andy Baker's acclaimed 2015 off -Broadway 00:10:53.990 --> 00:10:56.769 play, John. So going back to the stage during 00:10:56.769 --> 00:10:59.269 a film drought, that's kind of the actor's way 00:10:59.269 --> 00:11:01.470 of saying, OK, if you won't hire me for the camera 00:11:01.470 --> 00:11:03.929 right now, I'll go refine my skills where the 00:11:03.929 --> 00:11:06.690 work is raw and demanding. Precisely. And that 00:11:06.690 --> 00:11:09.309 theatrical grounding, it proved invaluable pretty 00:11:09.309 --> 00:11:12.210 quickly. How so? Well, that focus on craft. seemed 00:11:12.210 --> 00:11:15.090 to pay off immediately. In 2017, she secured 00:11:15.090 --> 00:11:17.169 a strong supporting role in the premiere season 00:11:17.169 --> 00:11:20.190 of Big Little Lies. Okay, another prestige HBO 00:11:20.190 --> 00:11:22.950 hit. And then came the definitive breakthrough, 00:11:23.230 --> 00:11:26.950 Alexander Payne's film Downsizing. Right. Downsizing, 00:11:27.009 --> 00:11:29.970 released later in 2017. This was undeniably the 00:11:29.970 --> 00:11:32.690 moment she became known to a wider critical audience, 00:11:32.889 --> 00:11:35.370 wasn't it? Absolutely. She played Ngoc Lan Tran, 00:11:35.610 --> 00:11:38.570 a Vietnamese refugee activist who lives with 00:11:38.570 --> 00:11:42.210 a disability. And the sources, they universally 00:11:42.210 --> 00:11:44.190 described her performance as just a stunning 00:11:44.190 --> 00:11:46.230 standout in the film. She really did. She took 00:11:46.230 --> 00:11:48.029 a character who could have easily been a footnote 00:11:48.029 --> 00:11:51.110 and turned her into the film's, like, moral center. 00:11:51.730 --> 00:11:55.649 Ngoc Lan Tran is fierce, critical. fiercely independent 00:11:55.649 --> 00:11:58.590 she's organizing her community in that shrunken 00:11:58.590 --> 00:12:00.470 society she really anchored that part of the 00:12:00.470 --> 00:12:02.549 film but as we know the critical conversation 00:12:02.549 --> 00:12:05.549 around the role became Well, highly complex, 00:12:05.649 --> 00:12:07.909 controversial even. Yeah, it did. The acting 00:12:07.909 --> 00:12:10.049 itself was pretty much universally praised. Oh, 00:12:10.049 --> 00:12:11.809 yeah. Everyone agreed her performance was brilliant. 00:12:11.889 --> 00:12:15.429 But some critics and cultural commentators voiced 00:12:15.429 --> 00:12:17.789 concerns. They worried that the character, a 00:12:17.789 --> 00:12:20.509 refugee speaking with heavy, quote, broken English, 00:12:20.769 --> 00:12:23.330 risked falling into certain tropes. Like the 00:12:23.330 --> 00:12:25.669 perpetual foreigner or maybe the model minority 00:12:25.669 --> 00:12:29.250 stereotype. Exactly. Tropes that Hollywood has, 00:12:29.370 --> 00:12:31.769 let's be honest, often utilized productively 00:12:31.769 --> 00:12:33.590 in the past when portraying Asian characters. 00:12:33.809 --> 00:12:35.929 So it brings up that crucial debate, doesn't 00:12:35.929 --> 00:12:38.509 it? When does portraying a specific reality, 00:12:38.809 --> 00:12:41.669 like having an accent, become perpetuating a 00:12:41.669 --> 00:12:43.809 negative stereotype? It's a really fine line. 00:12:44.090 --> 00:12:46.929 It is. And Chow's response to this criticism 00:12:46.929 --> 00:12:50.009 is where her own analysis really shines, I think. 00:12:50.110 --> 00:12:53.059 What was her defense? Well, her defense was strong 00:12:53.059 --> 00:12:56.539 and quite detailed. She argued vehemently against 00:12:56.539 --> 00:12:58.980 that reductive reading of the character. She 00:12:58.980 --> 00:13:02.080 stated she found Dungok Lantran so multifaceted 00:13:02.080 --> 00:13:04.580 and complex and well -written. So she felt the 00:13:04.580 --> 00:13:07.200 writing transcended potential stereotypes. Yes. 00:13:07.299 --> 00:13:09.440 She pointed out that while the character certainly 00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:11.759 had limitations, like her disability or her accent, 00:13:11.919 --> 00:13:15.200 she absolutely was not defined by them. The character 00:13:15.200 --> 00:13:18.139 was active. She was resourceful. She was morally 00:13:18.139 --> 00:13:20.100 challenging to Matt Damon's main protagonist. 00:13:20.360 --> 00:13:23.480 She definitely had agency. That was Tao's point 00:13:23.480 --> 00:13:26.940 exactly. The character's accent and refugee status 00:13:26.940 --> 00:13:29.500 were facts of her life, part of her reality. 00:13:29.679 --> 00:13:32.879 But her true nature. her fierce resilience, her 00:13:32.879 --> 00:13:35.940 refusal to be a victim, actually subverted the 00:13:35.940 --> 00:13:38.440 stereotypical expectation entirely. Right. This 00:13:38.440 --> 00:13:40.620 wasn't some passive figure waiting to be saved. 00:13:40.639 --> 00:13:42.620 This was a political activist making change. 00:13:42.919 --> 00:13:45.700 Precisely. And regardless of that critical debate. 00:13:46.360 --> 00:13:48.919 The industry voting bodies certainly recognize 00:13:48.919 --> 00:13:51.799 the performance as exceptional. Yeah, this single 00:13:51.799 --> 00:13:55.539 role secured her first major accolades. Nominations 00:13:55.539 --> 00:13:57.559 for both the Golden Globe Award and the Screen 00:13:57.559 --> 00:14:00.059 Actors Guild Award for Best Supporting Actress. 00:14:00.159 --> 00:14:02.200 Which are massive nominations. They confirm you 00:14:02.200 --> 00:14:04.200 were seen as one of the top five performers in 00:14:04.200 --> 00:14:06.299 your category for the entire year by those groups. 00:14:06.519 --> 00:14:08.919 Huge deal. And she also received the Virtuosos 00:14:08.919 --> 00:14:11.000 Award at the Santa Barbara International Film 00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:14.110 Festival that year. She did. which is an award 00:14:14.110 --> 00:14:16.330 given specifically to artists who have distinguished 00:14:16.330 --> 00:14:18.269 themselves through a breakthrough performance. 00:14:18.769 --> 00:14:21.490 It was basically a formal acknowledgement from 00:14:21.490 --> 00:14:24.629 the industry. Hong Chao had arrived. So the recognition 00:14:24.629 --> 00:14:27.690 following downsizing, it quickly cemented her 00:14:27.690 --> 00:14:31.230 status. And a major indicator of this shift came 00:14:31.230 --> 00:14:33.909 in 2018. What happened then? She was invited 00:14:33.909 --> 00:14:36.090 to join the Academy of Motion Pictures Arts and 00:14:36.090 --> 00:14:39.000 Sciences. The Oscars people. Ah, the Academy 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:41.720 invite? That's a big deal. Huge deal. She was 00:14:41.720 --> 00:14:45.360 part of a massive new class that year. 928 new 00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:47.840 members invited. It signaled that she was now 00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:51.240 formally recognized as an influential force helping 00:14:51.240 --> 00:14:53.360 shape the future of cinema. That invitation, 00:14:53.379 --> 00:14:55.820 it represents a permanent change in status within 00:14:55.820 --> 00:14:57.919 the industry, doesn't it? It really does. But 00:14:57.919 --> 00:15:00.100 what's truly fascinating is what she chose to 00:15:00.100 --> 00:15:03.179 do next. Right after that huge recognition. Okay, 00:15:03.299 --> 00:15:05.200 what did she do? Instead of immediately jumping 00:15:05.200 --> 00:15:07.980 into, say, blockbusters or signing on for some 00:15:07.980 --> 00:15:10.639 five -season network procedural, she embraced 00:15:10.639 --> 00:15:12.659 the burgeoning world of prestige television. 00:15:13.120 --> 00:15:16.980 And her approach was highly strategic. Strategic 00:15:16.980 --> 00:15:20.200 how? Not just taking any TV role. Exactly. It 00:15:20.200 --> 00:15:22.220 was almost surgical. There was a great piece 00:15:22.220 --> 00:15:25.269 in The Ringer. that analyzed this decision. They 00:15:25.269 --> 00:15:28.149 noted that in the high stakes peak TV era, where 00:15:28.149 --> 00:15:30.490 basically every actor wanted to be on a hit streaming 00:15:30.490 --> 00:15:33.470 show. Right. Everyone was flocking to TV. Chow 00:15:33.470 --> 00:15:36.210 intentionally opted for choice guest parts in 00:15:36.210 --> 00:15:39.370 a few critically acclaimed TV shows like BoJack 00:15:39.370 --> 00:15:42.029 Horseman or that tragically underrated Amazon 00:15:42.029 --> 00:15:45.210 series Forever with Maya Rudolph and Fred Armisen. 00:15:45.409 --> 00:15:48.750 Ah, OK. So it's a strategy of quality over quantity. 00:15:48.950 --> 00:15:52.610 Precisely. Why take every recurring role offered 00:15:52.610 --> 00:15:55.970 when you can lend your specific talent to highly 00:15:55.970 --> 00:15:59.009 respected, critically acclaimed shows for just 00:15:59.009 --> 00:16:01.350 short bursts? Right. It keeps her versatile, 00:16:01.529 --> 00:16:04.370 doesn't burn her out and constantly reminds audiences 00:16:04.370 --> 00:16:06.669 and crucially casting directors of her range 00:16:06.669 --> 00:16:09.309 and well, her prestige. It's like using a surgeon's 00:16:09.309 --> 00:16:12.330 scalpel instead of a blunt instrument. Her presence 00:16:12.330 --> 00:16:14.629 instantly elevated those projects she guested 00:16:14.629 --> 00:16:17.070 on, and in return, she benefited from their prestige. 00:16:17.429 --> 00:16:19.429 And that approach, it ultimately led to more 00:16:19.429 --> 00:16:21.570 substantial success at places like Amazon and 00:16:21.570 --> 00:16:24.929 HBO, didn't it? It did. Let's look first at her 00:16:24.929 --> 00:16:27.629 run in the Amazon Prime video series Homecoming. 00:16:27.769 --> 00:16:30.649 That was directed by Sam Esmail, creator of Mr. 00:16:30.769 --> 00:16:33.470 Robot. Right, that spanned from 2018 to 2020. 00:16:33.950 --> 00:16:36.250 And she started in a supporting role, right, 00:16:36.350 --> 00:16:39.009 as Audrey Temple. Yes, Audrey Temple. Yeah. A 00:16:39.009 --> 00:16:41.259 corporate secretary who... initially seems to 00:16:41.259 --> 00:16:43.600 exist only in the shadows of power within this 00:16:43.600 --> 00:16:46.100 mysterious Geist group. But this is where her 00:16:46.100 --> 00:16:49.059 ability to embody that kind of strategic intelligence 00:16:49.059 --> 00:16:51.779 really shone through, wasn't it? Absolutely. 00:16:52.039 --> 00:16:54.679 She began as this seemingly anonymous figure, 00:16:54.799 --> 00:16:57.559 just a corporate functionary doing her job. But 00:16:57.559 --> 00:17:00.279 by season two, she had become a star of the show. 00:17:00.440 --> 00:17:03.019 Her character progressed dramatically. Hugely. 00:17:03.309 --> 00:17:06.269 moving from the periphery right to the absolute 00:17:06.269 --> 00:17:09.369 center, from secretary to basically a person 00:17:09.369 --> 00:17:11.930 in charge within that shadowy corporation. It's 00:17:11.930 --> 00:17:14.329 a perfect illustration of that deceptively powerful 00:17:14.329 --> 00:17:16.890 persona people talk about with her. She begins 00:17:16.890 --> 00:17:20.450 almost invisibly, then slowly reveals herself 00:17:20.450 --> 00:17:24.329 to be ruthlessly competent and ambitious. It 00:17:24.329 --> 00:17:26.589 almost mirrors that early life lesson she learned, 00:17:26.670 --> 00:17:28.210 doesn't it? Sometimes you have to stay in the 00:17:28.210 --> 00:17:30.769 background or be the acceptable one to navigate 00:17:30.769 --> 00:17:33.420 the system. But eventually... You seize control 00:17:33.420 --> 00:17:36.140 when the opportunity arises. And then, just to 00:17:36.140 --> 00:17:38.059 prove her versatility wasn't limited to corporate 00:17:38.059 --> 00:17:40.779 thrillers, she jumped into the HBO limited series 00:17:40.779 --> 00:17:44.059 Watchmen in 2019. Yeah, a massive pivot into 00:17:44.059 --> 00:17:47.319 high -concept genre storytelling based on the 00:17:47.319 --> 00:17:49.259 legendary graphic novel. And she played one of 00:17:49.259 --> 00:17:51.119 the most memorable characters in that entire 00:17:51.119 --> 00:17:54.579 series, the trillionaire mogul Lady Tree. Lady 00:17:54.579 --> 00:17:57.319 Tree, what a character. An incredible creation, 00:17:57.500 --> 00:18:00.140 ancient, calculated, almost terrifying figure 00:18:00.140 --> 00:18:03.279 of immense wealth and power. The Hollywood Reporter 00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:06.079 specifically called her performance exceptional, 00:18:06.359 --> 00:18:09.720 memorable. She really embodied this chilling, 00:18:09.859 --> 00:18:12.640 almost supernatural intelligence. She demanded 00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:15.440 the viewer's immediate respect and, frankly, 00:18:15.619 --> 00:18:17.819 attention. She wasn't just wealthy. She kind 00:18:17.819 --> 00:18:20.400 of owned time itself in that show. It was a stunning 00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:22.160 performance. And it's during this concentrated 00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:25.400 period around 2019 that she successfully made 00:18:25.400 --> 00:18:27.869 that transition. securing leading film roles 00:18:27.869 --> 00:18:30.269 that premiered at major festivals. Right, showcasing 00:18:30.269 --> 00:18:32.269 her increasing value in the independent film 00:18:32.269 --> 00:18:34.690 world. She starred in both Driveways and American 00:18:34.690 --> 00:18:37.490 Woman around then. Correct. And the choice behind 00:18:37.490 --> 00:18:40.130 Driveways, again, highlights her intentionality, 00:18:40.130 --> 00:18:42.809 her strategy. How so? She readily accepted the 00:18:42.809 --> 00:18:45.529 offer from the director, Andrew Ahn, simply because 00:18:45.529 --> 00:18:48.170 she was already familiar with his previous acclaimed 00:18:48.170 --> 00:18:51.349 work, like Spa Night, and she deeply respected 00:18:51.349 --> 00:18:53.960 him as a visual artist. So she was prioritizing 00:18:53.960 --> 00:18:56.240 the artistic collaboration, the director's unique 00:18:56.240 --> 00:18:59.400 vision, maybe over purely commercial appeal. 00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:01.740 It seems that way. Yeah. And this combination 00:19:01.740 --> 00:19:04.059 starring in these indie festival darlings while 00:19:04.059 --> 00:19:07.019 also delivering defining, steely performances 00:19:07.019 --> 00:19:10.960 in prestige TV, it really cemented her signature 00:19:10.960 --> 00:19:14.140 persona, which Rolling Stone encapsulated perfectly 00:19:14.140 --> 00:19:17.200 in May 2020. What did they say? I remember reading 00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:19.700 something about cool tenacity. That's the phrase. 00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:22.440 They described her roles as exhibiting cool tenacity. 00:19:22.819 --> 00:19:25.440 Whether she was playing a mysterious mogul, a 00:19:25.440 --> 00:19:28.000 secretive secretary, or a grieving single mother, 00:19:28.160 --> 00:19:30.799 the common thread, they argued, was that she 00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:33.619 is steely, whip -smart, and deceptively powerful. 00:19:34.220 --> 00:19:36.240 Deceptively powerful. That phrase really stuck, 00:19:36.319 --> 00:19:38.420 didn't it? It became the shorthand for what she 00:19:38.420 --> 00:19:41.319 brings to the screen. It really did. Now, just 00:19:41.319 --> 00:19:43.460 a brief note before we move into her sort of 00:19:43.460 --> 00:19:46.000 stratospheric rise recently. Okay. We have to 00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:48.740 mention the slightly strange case of Artemis 00:19:48.740 --> 00:19:53.059 Fowl, the Disney movie from 2020. Oh, yeah, the 00:19:53.059 --> 00:19:54.920 adaptation of the books. What happened there? 00:19:55.140 --> 00:19:58.359 Well, she filmed a small, apparently significant 00:19:58.359 --> 00:20:03.559 part as the villain Opal Cowboy. Okay. But, you 00:20:03.559 --> 00:20:05.660 know, despite being an actress clearly on the 00:20:05.660 --> 00:20:08.279 rise, Hollywood is still Hollywood. Meaning? 00:20:08.519 --> 00:20:11.019 Her on -screen appearance was ultimately cut 00:20:11.019 --> 00:20:13.279 from the final theatrical version of the film. 00:20:13.420 --> 00:20:16.049 Oh, really? completely cut her visual appearance 00:20:16.049 --> 00:20:19.390 yes although interestingly her character's voice 00:20:19.390 --> 00:20:22.089 was still used in the film yeah and the deleted 00:20:22.089 --> 00:20:25.109 scene with her is apparently available on disney 00:20:25.109 --> 00:20:27.450 plus bow huh well it just goes to show doesn't 00:20:27.450 --> 00:20:29.170 it even when you're riding high the vagaries 00:20:29.170 --> 00:20:31.190 of the editing room can still claim your work 00:20:31.190 --> 00:20:33.190 sometimes exactly a little bump in the road but 00:20:33.190 --> 00:20:36.839 what came next was just Phenomenal. OK, so what 00:20:36.839 --> 00:20:39.180 followed that period of, you know, strategic 00:20:39.180 --> 00:20:42.339 TV appearances and indie leads was just this 00:20:42.339 --> 00:20:45.819 absolutely explosive run of productivity. And 00:20:45.819 --> 00:20:47.700 it's made even more incredible when you factor 00:20:47.700 --> 00:20:49.779 in her personal life at the time. That's right. 00:20:49.859 --> 00:20:53.279 The year 2020 obviously involved a big industry 00:20:53.279 --> 00:20:56.500 shutdown due to COVID. But then. In November 00:20:56.500 --> 00:20:58.900 of that year, she gave birth to her daughter. 00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:01.220 Right. And the period immediately following this 00:21:01.220 --> 00:21:04.140 major life change is, frankly, astounding. It 00:21:04.140 --> 00:21:07.019 speaks volumes about her dedication, her drive. 00:21:07.240 --> 00:21:09.900 We really need to emphasize this timeline. Yeah, 00:21:09.940 --> 00:21:12.099 it's pretty remarkable. She returned to really 00:21:12.099 --> 00:21:15.160 demanding, emotionally draining set work almost 00:21:15.160 --> 00:21:17.859 immediately after giving birth. How soon? The 00:21:17.859 --> 00:21:19.779 source has confirmed she filmed her Oscar -nominated 00:21:19.779 --> 00:21:22.140 role in The Whale when her baby was just eight 00:21:22.140 --> 00:21:25.920 weeks old. Eight weeks. Wow. that is intense 00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:28.119 and she gave specific details about this commitment 00:21:28.119 --> 00:21:30.319 she stated she was literally pumping between 00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:33.180 takes while inhabiting the deeply complex character 00:21:33.180 --> 00:21:35.680 of liz brendan frazier's caregiver character 00:21:35.680 --> 00:21:38.359 just think about that physical and mental demand 00:21:38.359 --> 00:21:41.819 you're balancing the raw primal necessity of 00:21:41.819 --> 00:21:45.490 caring for a newborn which is exhausting and 00:21:45.490 --> 00:21:47.829 a full time job in itself. Absolutely. While 00:21:47.829 --> 00:21:50.250 simultaneously diving into the emotionally exhausting 00:21:50.250 --> 00:21:53.630 world of a Darren Aronofsky film set, which are 00:21:53.630 --> 00:21:56.029 known for being intense. It's just a testament 00:21:56.029 --> 00:21:59.130 to that sheer tenacity, that resilience we've 00:21:59.130 --> 00:22:01.309 seen rooted in her background from the very beginning. 00:22:01.450 --> 00:22:03.890 That level of commitment, it clearly enabled 00:22:03.890 --> 00:22:06.789 her to tackle a staggeringly prolific schedule 00:22:06.789 --> 00:22:10.809 right after that. Oh, yeah. In 2021 alone, she 00:22:10.809 --> 00:22:13.150 shot four major films. Four films in one year. 00:22:13.309 --> 00:22:16.250 Four. The Whale, Kelly Reichardt showing up, 00:22:16.730 --> 00:22:20.049 The Menu, and Wes Anderson's Asteroid City. And 00:22:20.049 --> 00:22:21.890 that's not just volume. That's high -quality 00:22:21.890 --> 00:22:24.569 art house and high -profile work across the board. 00:22:24.690 --> 00:22:27.049 And crucially, this wasn't a run defined by, 00:22:27.089 --> 00:22:29.309 like, desperate job hunting, was it? It seems 00:22:29.309 --> 00:22:30.930 like it was more about intentional collaboration 00:22:30.930 --> 00:22:33.430 with elite directors who are actively seeking 00:22:33.430 --> 00:22:35.589 her out. That's exactly right. Her star power 00:22:35.589 --> 00:22:38.269 was now clearly attracting major talent. The 00:22:38.269 --> 00:22:40.509 evidence of these director connections is everywhere 00:22:40.509 --> 00:22:42.569 in this period. Yike for The Whale. For The Whale, 00:22:42.690 --> 00:22:46.109 director Darren Aronofsky specifically invited 00:22:46.109 --> 00:22:50.210 her to audition. He recognized her depth and 00:22:50.210 --> 00:22:54.650 wanted her for Liz. Okay. And the menu. For the 00:22:54.650 --> 00:22:57.309 menu, her motivation was apparently very clear. 00:22:57.470 --> 00:23:00.410 She was a massive fan of director Mark Milod's 00:23:00.410 --> 00:23:03.130 work on Succession. Ah, okay. Great show. Right. 00:23:03.210 --> 00:23:05.170 And she wanted the challenge of working with 00:23:05.170 --> 00:23:08.049 him and also alongside Ralph Fiennes. Makes sense. 00:23:08.269 --> 00:23:10.170 And what about Wes Anderson? That feels like 00:23:10.170 --> 00:23:12.900 a different vibe. The anecdote involving Wes 00:23:12.900 --> 00:23:15.059 Anderson is particularly illustrative of the 00:23:15.059 --> 00:23:17.799 long -term impact she makes on people. For Asteroid 00:23:17.799 --> 00:23:20.319 City, Anderson remembered seeing her performance 00:23:20.319 --> 00:23:23.309 in a play, presumably John, Five years prior. 00:23:23.569 --> 00:23:26.650 Five years. Five years. And he consciously sought 00:23:26.650 --> 00:23:28.589 an opportunity to cast her after all that time, 00:23:28.690 --> 00:23:31.049 even if it ended up being just for a single memorable 00:23:31.049 --> 00:23:33.849 scene in the final film. That ability to leave 00:23:33.849 --> 00:23:35.829 such a lasting impression on Hollywood's most 00:23:35.829 --> 00:23:37.769 discerning directors, directors who could cast 00:23:37.769 --> 00:23:39.970 literally anyone they want, that's the ultimate 00:23:39.970 --> 00:23:42.349 sign of elevated status, isn't it? It absolutely 00:23:42.349 --> 00:23:45.369 is. And that single scene in Asteroid City, it 00:23:45.369 --> 00:23:48.529 premiered at the 2023 Cannes Film Festival, ensuring 00:23:48.529 --> 00:23:51.430 her presence remained firmly planted in the highest 00:23:51.430 --> 00:23:54.859 echelons of arthouse cinema. So her 2022 film 00:23:54.859 --> 00:23:58.019 slate alone was just a powerhouse. It combined 00:23:58.019 --> 00:24:01.059 critical acclaim with commercial success. We 00:24:01.059 --> 00:24:03.460 saw Showing Up premiere at Cannes, The Whale 00:24:03.460 --> 00:24:06.700 at the Venice Film Festival, and The Menu at 00:24:06.700 --> 00:24:08.799 the Toronto International Film Festival, TIFF. 00:24:08.980 --> 00:24:11.680 The sheer number of acclaimed festival appearances 00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:14.880 in just one year is pretty rare for any actor. 00:24:15.019 --> 00:24:17.119 It's an incredible run. And that run, of course, 00:24:17.119 --> 00:24:19.880 culminated in her first highly deserved Academy 00:24:19.880 --> 00:24:22.579 Award nomination for Best Supporting Actress. 00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:25.059 for her portrayal of Liz in The Whale. Finally. 00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:27.859 Right. She also secured BAFTA and SAG nominations 00:24:27.859 --> 00:24:30.259 for that role, proving the performance was recognized 00:24:30.259 --> 00:24:33.220 across the globe as one of the year's truly essential 00:24:33.220 --> 00:24:35.539 supporting turns. There was some commentary and 00:24:35.539 --> 00:24:37.779 variety around that time that perfectly analyzed 00:24:37.779 --> 00:24:40.059 the versatility defining this period, wasn't 00:24:40.059 --> 00:24:43.240 there? Yes. They noted that her specific approach 00:24:43.240 --> 00:24:46.390 on set Giving directors a wide range of line 00:24:46.390 --> 00:24:48.849 readings and reactions each time they call action 00:24:48.849 --> 00:24:52.029 has directly resulted in this string of performances 00:24:52.029 --> 00:24:55.589 of remarkable versatility. Star turns. Think 00:24:55.589 --> 00:24:57.250 about what that means for a director working 00:24:57.250 --> 00:25:00.150 with her. She's not just hitting her mark. No. 00:25:00.430 --> 00:25:02.670 She's giving them maybe three or four equally 00:25:02.670 --> 00:25:05.529 compelling, distinct options for how a scene 00:25:05.529 --> 00:25:08.650 can land emotionally. That flexibility must make 00:25:08.650 --> 00:25:11.349 her immensely valuable in the edit suite. Incredibly 00:25:11.349 --> 00:25:13.650 valuable. And her expansion wasn't just limited 00:25:13.650 --> 00:25:16.589 to film during this hot streak. In 2023, she 00:25:16.589 --> 00:25:19.210 also tackled new genres in television. Oh, yeah. 00:25:19.329 --> 00:25:22.109 Like what? Well, she had a really memorable guest 00:25:22.109 --> 00:25:25.319 star role as Marge. the sort of trucker mechanic 00:25:25.319 --> 00:25:27.880 character in Rian Johnson's critically acclaimed 00:25:27.880 --> 00:25:30.559 mystery series Poker Face, showed off her knack 00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:32.799 for dry comedy. Okay, I remember that episode. 00:25:32.900 --> 00:25:35.119 She was great. Yeah, she was fantastic. And then 00:25:35.119 --> 00:25:37.019 came the political thriller genre with a night 00:25:37.019 --> 00:25:39.559 agent on Netflix. She played the main role of 00:25:39.559 --> 00:25:42.480 Diane Farr, a really seasoned high -level Washington 00:25:42.480 --> 00:25:45.440 operative, the president's chief of staff. And 00:25:45.440 --> 00:25:47.859 why did she take that role? It seems different 00:25:47.859 --> 00:25:50.480 again. Apparently she accepted it specifically 00:25:50.480 --> 00:25:52.960 because she was familiar with the series creator 00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:55.920 Sean Ryan's previous work, sophisticated dramas 00:25:55.920 --> 00:25:58.660 like The Shield and Terriers. Oh, okay. Respect 00:25:58.660 --> 00:26:01.519 for the showrunner. Exactly. And she wanted to 00:26:01.519 --> 00:26:04.519 tackle a completely new, high -stakes genre she 00:26:04.519 --> 00:26:06.720 hadn't really done before. So she continues to 00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:09.420 choose collaborators intentionally, focusing 00:26:09.420 --> 00:26:11.920 on directors she respects, challenges she hasn't 00:26:11.920 --> 00:26:14.819 met before. Looking ahead, her future projects 00:26:14.819 --> 00:26:17.700 seem just as stacked with prestige. They really 00:26:17.700 --> 00:26:21.200 do. She was cast in Yorgos Lanthimos' latest 00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:23.940 project, the absurdist anthology film Kinds of 00:26:23.940 --> 00:26:26.660 Kindness. Oh, the poor things director. That's 00:26:26.660 --> 00:26:29.099 the one. And Kinds of Kindness just premiered 00:26:29.099 --> 00:26:32.400 at the 2024 Cannes Film Festival. Apparently, 00:26:32.500 --> 00:26:35.079 Lanthimos, who's known for his unique and demanding 00:26:35.079 --> 00:26:37.880 style, was so impressed by her versatility in 00:26:37.880 --> 00:26:40.720 showing up that he cast her to play three different 00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:42.720 parts across the different anthology segments 00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:45.279 in the film. Three different parts in one Yorgos 00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:47.980 Lanthimos film. Wow. That is like the ultimate 00:26:47.980 --> 00:26:50.880 stamp of approval for your range. Isn't it? And 00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:52.960 just to show she hasn't forgotten her early co 00:26:52.960 --> 00:26:55.180 -stars, she's already back to action thrillers. 00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:58.339 She appeared in The Instigators in 2024. And 00:26:58.339 --> 00:27:00.640 that reunites her with... Her downsizing co -star. 00:27:01.000 --> 00:27:03.519 Matt Damon. Ah, nice connection. So this entire 00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:05.799 hot streak, as we're calling it, it really feels 00:27:05.799 --> 00:27:08.539 like the culmination of brilliant talent married 00:27:08.539 --> 00:27:11.799 with fiercely intelligent strategic career choices. 00:27:11.980 --> 00:27:14.559 That sums it up perfectly. So while that 2023 00:27:14.559 --> 00:27:17.819 Oscar nomination for The Whale was her huge moment 00:27:17.819 --> 00:27:20.700 of mainstream triumph, it feels vital to revisit 00:27:20.700 --> 00:27:23.039 the conversation that happened way back in 2018 00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:25.720 regarding downsizing. Yes, absolutely. Because 00:27:25.720 --> 00:27:29.720 that role in Gok Lan Tran, it generated immense 00:27:30.279 --> 00:27:32.480 just undeniable momentum for her at the time. 00:27:32.519 --> 00:27:35.140 She got the Golden Globe nomination. Check. And 00:27:35.140 --> 00:27:37.539 the Screen Actors Guild nomination. Check. And 00:27:37.539 --> 00:27:40.740 historically, winning or even just being nominated 00:27:40.740 --> 00:27:43.259 for both of those major precursor awards, it 00:27:43.259 --> 00:27:45.359 usually guarantees an Oscar nomination at the 00:27:45.359 --> 00:27:47.839 Academy Awards that follow. It's a very strong 00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:51.000 indicator. Usually. But when the 90th Academy 00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:53.619 Award nominations were announced in early 2018, 00:27:54.019 --> 00:27:57.119 her name was conspicuously absent from the best 00:27:57.119 --> 00:27:59.799 supporting actress list. It was. And this wasn't 00:27:59.799 --> 00:28:03.019 just a quiet miss. It was widely recognized within 00:28:03.019 --> 00:28:06.480 the industry as a massive oversight. A real head 00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:08.640 scratcher. Yeah, I remember the reactions. USA 00:28:08.640 --> 00:28:10.440 Today captured the mood perfectly, didn't they? 00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:12.720 They called her absence a definitive snub. They 00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:15.519 did. Especially given the critical strength and 00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:17.960 ubiquitous presence of her performance as Nagak 00:28:17.960 --> 00:28:20.339 Lan Tran in the awards conversation leading up 00:28:20.339 --> 00:28:22.819 to it. That kind of frustration, I mean, coming 00:28:22.819 --> 00:28:25.440 so incredibly close, getting those major nominations, 00:28:25.619 --> 00:28:27.640 but then being excluded from the biggest one, 00:28:27.740 --> 00:28:29.980 that must have fueled her subsequent determination, 00:28:30.200 --> 00:28:31.900 don't you think? You have to imagine it did. 00:28:32.019 --> 00:28:34.579 It really emphasizes that true, lasting success 00:28:34.579 --> 00:28:37.799 in Hollywood often requires persistence far beyond 00:28:37.799 --> 00:28:40.990 just that initial flash of... brilliance or buzz 00:28:40.990 --> 00:28:43.430 you have to keep going and that's exactly why 00:28:43.430 --> 00:28:47.150 the 2023 triumph for the whale felt so well so 00:28:47.150 --> 00:28:50.089 profoundly resonant it was finally confirmation 00:28:50.089 --> 00:28:53.390 her first official academy award nomination for 00:28:53.390 --> 00:28:55.730 best supporting actress it felt like the industry 00:28:55.730 --> 00:28:57.890 finally caught up like they could no longer look 00:28:57.890 --> 00:29:00.230 away from the sheer quality and consistency of 00:29:00.230 --> 00:29:03.309 her work. Now, beyond the individual awards like 00:29:03.309 --> 00:29:05.670 the Oscar nom, we should also highlight the type 00:29:05.670 --> 00:29:08.069 of recognition she's received for her ensemble 00:29:08.069 --> 00:29:10.809 work, because that speaks volumes about her fundamental 00:29:10.809 --> 00:29:13.490 role as a collaborator, someone who elevates 00:29:13.490 --> 00:29:16.049 the entire production. That's a great point. 00:29:16.170 --> 00:29:18.309 And we're talking specifically about the Independent 00:29:18.309 --> 00:29:20.789 Spirit Robert Altman Award. Explain that one 00:29:20.789 --> 00:29:23.130 a bit. It's unique, right? It's very unique, 00:29:23.230 --> 00:29:25.900 and it's an incredible honor. Because it's not 00:29:25.900 --> 00:29:29.160 just given to one actor. It's presented jointly 00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:33.279 to the entire ensemble cast, the director, and 00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:36.809 the casting director. So it recognizes the excellence 00:29:36.809 --> 00:29:40.170 of the collective artistic unit. Exactly. The 00:29:40.170 --> 00:29:42.250 spirit of collaboration that leads to a great 00:29:42.250 --> 00:29:44.589 independent film. And she's won it twice. Twice. 00:29:44.849 --> 00:29:47.869 First, as part of the massive sprawling ensemble 00:29:47.869 --> 00:29:50.329 for Paul Thomas Anderson's Inherent Vice back 00:29:50.329 --> 00:29:52.869 in 2015. Okay. And then again, just recently 00:29:52.869 --> 00:29:55.509 in 2024, for the ensemble of Kelly Reichardt's 00:29:55.509 --> 00:30:00.049 Showing Up. Wow. Winning that award twice. For 00:30:00.049 --> 00:30:01.970 two completely different kinds of films under 00:30:01.970 --> 00:30:04.769 two completely different directors with two distinct 00:30:04.769 --> 00:30:07.410 casts. Yeah. That's really powerful evidence, 00:30:07.509 --> 00:30:10.029 isn't it? It absolutely is. It shows she is fundamentally 00:30:10.029 --> 00:30:13.130 a collaborative and elevating presence on set. 00:30:13.210 --> 00:30:15.769 She's not just chasing solo glory. She's an integral 00:30:15.769 --> 00:30:17.849 piece of what makes these high quality artistic 00:30:17.849 --> 00:30:20.789 projects succeed as a whole. And finally, just 00:30:20.789 --> 00:30:23.509 circling back to the critics, they have consistently 00:30:23.509 --> 00:30:26.250 honored her versatility, haven't they? Confirming 00:30:26.250 --> 00:30:28.789 that her recent prolific streak isn't just high 00:30:28.789 --> 00:30:31.740 volume. it consistently high quality. Definitely. 00:30:31.960 --> 00:30:33.700 She won Best Supporting Actress from the New 00:30:33.700 --> 00:30:36.259 York Film Critics Online in 2022 for, I believe, 00:30:36.380 --> 00:30:39.220 The Whale. Right. And the Columbus Film Critics 00:30:39.220 --> 00:30:41.539 Association placed her as the runner up for their 00:30:41.539 --> 00:30:44.880 overall Actor of the Year award in 2023. And 00:30:44.880 --> 00:30:46.839 that was recognizing the combined strength of 00:30:46.839 --> 00:30:49.079 her performances in both The Menu and D the Whale 00:30:49.079 --> 00:30:51.680 that year. So that kind of recognition, it reinforces 00:30:51.680 --> 00:30:53.519 that her current standing isn't just defined 00:30:53.519 --> 00:30:56.500 by one single breakout performance. It's about 00:30:56.500 --> 00:30:59.349 the remarkable breadth. and the consistent excellence 00:30:59.349 --> 00:31:01.750 of her entire body of work, especially recently, 00:31:01.990 --> 00:31:04.390 across all these different genres. Precisely. 00:31:04.390 --> 00:31:07.190 It's the whole picture. Hashtag tag outro. So 00:31:07.190 --> 00:31:10.589 stepping back now and viewing the full arc of 00:31:10.589 --> 00:31:13.190 Hong Tao's career, the story that emerges is 00:31:13.190 --> 00:31:16.869 just. It's one of profound adaptation, isn't 00:31:16.869 --> 00:31:20.170 it? And real strategic mastery. The person we 00:31:20.170 --> 00:31:22.630 see on screen now, commanding respect, wielding 00:31:22.630 --> 00:31:26.299 subtle power. It seems so directly informed by 00:31:26.299 --> 00:31:28.700 the life she actually lived off screen. Absolutely. 00:31:28.759 --> 00:31:31.140 You have this foundational experience, this incredibly 00:31:31.140 --> 00:31:34.240 intense experience of navigating high stakes 00:31:34.240 --> 00:31:37.779 institutional structures from birth, really fleeing 00:31:37.779 --> 00:31:40.500 Vietnam. Being born in a refugee camp. Relying 00:31:40.500 --> 00:31:42.680 on government systems in a new country. Watching 00:31:42.680 --> 00:31:45.019 her parents struggle against social marginalization 00:31:45.019 --> 00:31:47.539 in New Orleans. All of that. And that profound 00:31:47.539 --> 00:31:50.299 personal history. It gets paired with this remarkable 00:31:50.299 --> 00:31:52.829 professional strategy we've traced. Overcoming 00:31:52.829 --> 00:31:54.670 that two -year acting drought. Right, the pivot 00:31:54.670 --> 00:31:58.470 to theater. The calculated focus on prestige 00:31:58.470 --> 00:32:01.710 guest roles in television instead of just grabbing 00:32:01.710 --> 00:32:04.430 anything. And the ultimate intentionality behind 00:32:04.430 --> 00:32:07.250 her collaborations with specific directors she 00:32:07.250 --> 00:32:10.119 admired. And the final result is... That signature 00:32:10.119 --> 00:32:12.279 versatility we keep talking about, that ability 00:32:12.279 --> 00:32:14.680 to transition so effortlessly from, say, the 00:32:14.680 --> 00:32:18.640 grounded New Orleans drama of Trem. Right. To 00:32:18.640 --> 00:32:21.200 the intense corporate politics of Homecoming 00:32:21.200 --> 00:32:24.240 and then to the intimate arthouse intensity of 00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:26.900 showing up and now even blockbuster action thrillers 00:32:26.900 --> 00:32:30.079 like The Instigators. She does it all. Her journey 00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:32.940 has just been defined by this necessity of adaptation 00:32:32.940 --> 00:32:36.750 and really strategic patience. And that brings 00:32:36.750 --> 00:32:38.509 us to the core question, I think, the one we 00:32:38.509 --> 00:32:40.130 kind of want to leave you, the listener, with 00:32:40.130 --> 00:32:43.049 to mull over long after this deep dive ends. 00:32:43.150 --> 00:32:45.730 Okay, what's the final thought? Well, her early 00:32:45.730 --> 00:32:47.990 life, as we've established, was defined by the 00:32:47.990 --> 00:32:51.009 necessity of moving between and adapting to new 00:32:51.009 --> 00:32:54.130 complex systems. The refugee camp environment. 00:32:54.349 --> 00:32:56.369 Subsidized housing. Learning a new language. 00:32:56.710 --> 00:32:59.009 Navigating social structures where her own parents 00:32:59.009 --> 00:33:01.170 felt pushed to the margins. Right, those institutional 00:33:01.170 --> 00:33:05.430 structures were her reality. Exactly. Given her 00:33:05.430 --> 00:33:08.509 signature success playing those very characters, 00:33:08.609 --> 00:33:11.130 the secretive secretaries, the trillionaire moguls 00:33:11.130 --> 00:33:13.329 figures who are always operating with this steely 00:33:13.329 --> 00:33:15.809 intelligence within or sometimes strategically 00:33:15.809 --> 00:33:18.779 against complex institutional structures. Does 00:33:18.779 --> 00:33:21.119 that lived experience, does navigating those 00:33:21.119 --> 00:33:24.240 high stakes real world systems directly inform 00:33:24.240 --> 00:33:27.039 the specific kind of steely strategic intelligence 00:33:27.039 --> 00:33:29.619 she brings to so many of her characters? Does 00:33:29.619 --> 00:33:32.380 it make them feel so genuinely, so deceptively 00:33:32.380 --> 00:33:34.339 powerful? It feels like the connection is almost 00:33:34.339 --> 00:33:37.000 inescapable, doesn't it? That her life equipped 00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:39.299 her uniquely to portray those kinds of characters 00:33:39.299 --> 00:33:42.380 with such authenticity. And that perhaps is why 00:33:42.380 --> 00:33:45.019 Hong Chao's patient, determined and ultimately 00:33:45.019 --> 00:33:47.299 victorious ascent is truly one of the most compelling 00:33:47.299 --> 00:33:49.349 stories. playing out in Hollywood today. Thank 00:33:49.349 --> 00:33:51.069 you so much for joining us for The Deep Dive. 00:33:51.130 --> 00:33:51.769 We'll see you next time.