WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.899 Welcome to the Deep Dive. Our mission today is 00:00:02.899 --> 00:00:05.480 to take a really close look, a deep dive, into 00:00:05.480 --> 00:00:08.080 the career of someone who seems like, well, a 00:00:08.080 --> 00:00:11.099 walking contradiction in comedy. David Cross. 00:00:11.320 --> 00:00:15.740 Absolutely. Born April 4th, 1964. Cross is just 00:00:15.740 --> 00:00:18.019 this fascinating split, isn't he? You've got 00:00:18.019 --> 00:00:21.359 the really sharp political satirist, the alternative 00:00:21.359 --> 00:00:24.539 comedy icon, you know, the Mr. Show guy. Right, 00:00:24.579 --> 00:00:27.800 the cult Gen X comedy figure. Exactly. Black 00:00:27.800 --> 00:00:30.100 comedy, really pushing boundaries. And then on 00:00:30.100 --> 00:00:33.500 the other side, huge mainstream Hollywood success. 00:00:34.780 --> 00:00:36.259 Blockbusters. That's what we want to unpack, 00:00:36.460 --> 00:00:39.060 that exact juxtaposition. How does the mind behind 00:00:39.060 --> 00:00:41.600 Mr. Show, which was so anarchic so ahead of its 00:00:41.600 --> 00:00:43.960 time, how does that guy end up, you know, in 00:00:43.960 --> 00:00:45.880 an Alvin and the Chipmunks movie? Not just in 00:00:45.880 --> 00:00:47.820 it, but famously having this awful experience. 00:00:48.100 --> 00:00:50.159 Yeah, complaining about being dressed as a pelican 00:00:50.159 --> 00:00:51.920 on a cruise ship and losing a ton of money for 00:00:51.920 --> 00:00:54.820 it. It's this wild journey from, like, the fringes 00:00:54.820 --> 00:00:57.420 to the absolute center of commercial entertainment. 00:00:57.759 --> 00:01:00.850 And back again sometimes. It's full of these 00:01:00.850 --> 00:01:03.109 moments that really make you think about what 00:01:03.109 --> 00:01:07.010 selling out even means anymore or the real power 00:01:07.010 --> 00:01:09.590 or lack thereof of anti -establishment comedy 00:01:09.590 --> 00:01:12.310 today. His main styles, the political stuff, 00:01:12.489 --> 00:01:16.049 the alternative, the blue comedy, they feel worlds 00:01:16.049 --> 00:01:18.349 away from his most famous character, Tobias Funko. 00:01:18.650 --> 00:01:20.670 Totally different energy. Though maybe Tobias 00:01:20.670 --> 00:01:23.829 has his own kind of tragic outsider thing going 00:01:23.829 --> 00:01:26.269 on. But yeah, the style's distinct. And we can't 00:01:26.269 --> 00:01:28.480 forget the recognition he got. Everyone knows 00:01:28.480 --> 00:01:30.879 Tobias from Arrested Development. That show was 00:01:30.879 --> 00:01:33.859 huge and it brought him, well, massive visibility. 00:01:34.099 --> 00:01:35.599 Right. Those Screen Actors Guild nominations 00:01:35.599 --> 00:01:38.239 for the ensemble cast, three of them. But even 00:01:38.239 --> 00:01:41.000 before that, he had serious writing chops officially 00:01:41.000 --> 00:01:43.819 recognized. That's key. He won a primetime Emmy 00:01:43.819 --> 00:01:47.340 way back in 93 for writing on The Ben Stiller 00:01:47.340 --> 00:01:49.159 Show. Which is where he met Bob Odenkirk, right? 00:01:49.260 --> 00:01:51.859 Exactly. That Emmy, that early validation as 00:01:51.859 --> 00:01:54.140 a writer, it sort of set the stage for Mr. Show. 00:01:54.620 --> 00:01:56.980 And that really crucial partnership with Odenkirk 00:01:56.980 --> 00:01:59.579 showed the industry he had the skills even before 00:01:59.579 --> 00:02:02.500 he became known for his specific brand of weirdness. 00:02:02.700 --> 00:02:04.719 OK, let's dig into that. Let's start at the beginning, 00:02:04.840 --> 00:02:07.879 because if you really want to get where his specific 00:02:07.879 --> 00:02:10.400 kind of anger and that outsider viewpoint comes 00:02:10.400 --> 00:02:12.900 from, you've got to look at his upbringing. It 00:02:12.900 --> 00:02:15.560 wasn't easy. No, definitely not. Born in Roswell, 00:02:15.620 --> 00:02:18.599 Georgia, Jewish family. His dad immigrated from 00:02:18.599 --> 00:02:21.430 Leeds in England. But the defining thing seems 00:02:21.430 --> 00:02:24.530 to be this constant financial instability. It 00:02:24.530 --> 00:02:26.370 sounds like it really forged his perspective. 00:02:26.689 --> 00:02:28.750 Yeah, the sources mention moving all the time, 00:02:28.770 --> 00:02:31.009 Florida, New York, Connecticut, back to Georgia, 00:02:31.150 --> 00:02:33.710 chasing stability, it sounds like. And apparently 00:02:33.710 --> 00:02:36.129 never really finding it. He talks about having 00:02:36.129 --> 00:02:38.849 very little money, being evicted, even living 00:02:38.849 --> 00:02:41.129 in motels sometimes, or crashing with friends. 00:02:41.610 --> 00:02:44.330 That kind of precarity, always being insecure, 00:02:44.610 --> 00:02:47.310 displaced, you can see how that might make you 00:02:47.310 --> 00:02:49.789 pretty skeptical of, you know, the system of 00:02:49.789 --> 00:02:51.930 wealth, of established structures. It absolutely 00:02:51.930 --> 00:02:54.310 creates a critical eye. And then on top of that, 00:02:54.449 --> 00:02:56.669 his father left the family when he was just 10. 00:02:56.789 --> 00:02:59.710 Wow, 10. Yeah. And Cross has said they haven't 00:02:59.710 --> 00:03:03.169 spoken since he was 19. That kind of abandonment 00:03:03.169 --> 00:03:05.789 mixed with the money troubles. Yeah. It's not 00:03:05.789 --> 00:03:07.889 just background noise. It feels like the source 00:03:07.889 --> 00:03:10.879 code for that outsider comedy. And that feeling 00:03:10.879 --> 00:03:12.919 found an outlet pretty early. He started doing 00:03:12.919 --> 00:03:15.120 stand -up when he was only, what, 17? Around 00:03:15.120 --> 00:03:17.719 then, yeah. Apparently the day after he graduated 00:03:17.719 --> 00:03:21.479 high school in Atlanta, he just bolted for New 00:03:21.479 --> 00:03:24.139 York City. The classic aspiring artist move. 00:03:24.379 --> 00:03:26.199 Didn't quite stick immediately, though, did it? 00:03:26.879 --> 00:03:30.360 No. Briefly worked for a lawn care company out 00:03:30.360 --> 00:03:33.599 on Long Island. Which must have felt... A little 00:03:33.599 --> 00:03:35.180 different from the comedy dream. Just a bit. 00:03:35.199 --> 00:03:37.919 Then he ended up in Boston for college. Emerson 00:03:37.919 --> 00:03:39.960 College. But he dropped out after just one semester. 00:03:40.280 --> 00:03:42.860 Didn't last long. No, but it was crucial. He 00:03:42.860 --> 00:03:44.879 joined a college sketch group there. This is 00:03:44.879 --> 00:03:47.120 pathetic. And that's where he met John Ennis, 00:03:47.219 --> 00:03:49.840 who became a collaborator later on. Ah, okay. 00:03:49.960 --> 00:03:52.860 So even that short time was productive. But Boston, 00:03:53.020 --> 00:03:55.960 the comedy scene there in the 80s and early 90s, 00:03:55.979 --> 00:03:58.860 he didn't exactly fit in, did he? Not at all. 00:03:58.919 --> 00:04:01.240 He described it pretty harshly, called it something 00:04:01.240 --> 00:04:05.240 like a loud, dumb, pandering, racist, homophobic 00:04:05.240 --> 00:04:07.580 type scene. Coach! Yeah, he was talking about 00:04:07.580 --> 00:04:09.800 that kind of lowest common denominator club comedy. 00:04:09.960 --> 00:04:13.180 He found it intellectually lazy, offensive, just 00:04:13.180 --> 00:04:15.819 totally alienating, which, you know, is often 00:04:15.819 --> 00:04:17.699 the best motivation to create something radically 00:04:17.699 --> 00:04:19.860 different. So it pushed him towards the alternative. 00:04:20.300 --> 00:04:23.579 Completely. And around 1990, that alternative 00:04:23.579 --> 00:04:26.459 scene started to bubble up. Yeah. Catch a rising 00:04:26.459 --> 00:04:29.439 star in Boston. He was performing alongside people 00:04:29.439 --> 00:04:31.920 like Jan Garofalo. Louis C .K. was around, too. 00:04:32.120 --> 00:04:34.920 This was the beginning of that more self -aware 00:04:34.920 --> 00:04:37.540 alt comedy wave. And he wasn't just doing standard 00:04:37.540 --> 00:04:40.439 jokes. He formed that group cross comedy. Right. 00:04:40.519 --> 00:04:42.699 With about a dozen other people. And their whole 00:04:42.699 --> 00:04:45.120 thing was being conceptual, messing with the 00:04:45.120 --> 00:04:47.519 audience. They'd introduce fake comics who were 00:04:47.519 --> 00:04:50.040 deliberately terrible or plant sake hecklers 00:04:50.040 --> 00:04:52.439 to kind of derail the show in these planned ways. 00:04:52.680 --> 00:04:55.850 That sounds very Mr. Show. That idea of playing 00:04:55.850 --> 00:04:57.750 with the form itself, not just telling jokes 00:04:57.750 --> 00:05:00.410 within it. Exactly. That's the direct line. Moving 00:05:00.410 --> 00:05:03.670 from just jokes to these conceptual audience 00:05:03.670 --> 00:05:06.850 -baiting sketches. It cemented his style. Political 00:05:06.850 --> 00:05:10.329 satire, black comedy, alternative stuff, using 00:05:10.329 --> 00:05:12.970 blue humor for impact. And this uncompromising 00:05:12.970 --> 00:05:14.990 style started getting noticed, right? He got 00:05:14.990 --> 00:05:17.350 specials. Yeah, he landed an HBO special, The 00:05:17.350 --> 00:05:21.069 Bride Is Back, in 1999. Then his first tour film, 00:05:21.290 --> 00:05:24.949 Let America Laugh, came out in 2003. Plus Grammy 00:05:24.949 --> 00:05:27.689 nominations for the albums. Two of them, yeah. 00:05:27.949 --> 00:05:30.410 Best Comedy Album nods for Shut Up, You Fucking 00:05:30.410 --> 00:05:33.550 Baby to 2003 and then later for America Great 00:05:33.550 --> 00:05:36.269 in 2016. It showed there was an audience for 00:05:36.269 --> 00:05:38.310 this, even if it was maybe more niche. And even 00:05:38.310 --> 00:05:41.350 the way he released those albums. It wasn't straightforward. 00:05:41.750 --> 00:05:43.810 No, it was kind of complicated, which feels very 00:05:43.810 --> 00:05:46.290 on brand. He'd often release audio and video 00:05:46.290 --> 00:05:48.629 versions around the same time, but with different 00:05:48.629 --> 00:05:50.610 content. So you couldn't just buy one and get 00:05:50.610 --> 00:05:52.269 the whole thing. Right. It's like he was making 00:05:52.269 --> 00:05:54.610 you work for it, making a statement against easily 00:05:54.610 --> 00:05:57.470 packaged stuff. Think about 2016. The Netflix 00:05:57.470 --> 00:06:00.050 special was Making America Great Again, but the 00:06:00.050 --> 00:06:03.269 audio album was America. Great. Subtle difference 00:06:03.269 --> 00:06:05.910 in the title, mocking the slogan. Yeah. And the 00:06:05.910 --> 00:06:07.670 material itself was different enough that if 00:06:07.670 --> 00:06:10.759 you were a real fan, you'd want both. It's deliberately 00:06:10.759 --> 00:06:14.500 complex, rewards the dedicated fan, often released 00:06:14.500 --> 00:06:17.699 on indie labels like Sub Pop. It's very anti 00:06:17.699 --> 00:06:20.139 -corporate in a way. Making the consumer work, 00:06:20.300 --> 00:06:22.879 rejecting the easy path. That feels like a good 00:06:22.879 --> 00:06:25.579 transition into how he actually broke into screenwriting, 00:06:25.620 --> 00:06:28.459 which sounds almost accidental at first. It kind 00:06:28.459 --> 00:06:31.860 of was. OK, so next stage, those breakthrough 00:06:31.860 --> 00:06:34.819 collaborations. Moving from the Boston scene 00:06:34.819 --> 00:06:37.620 to L .A. Writing for TV. This really starts with 00:06:37.620 --> 00:06:39.360 the Ben Stiller show in the early 90s. Right. 00:06:39.420 --> 00:06:41.040 That show was legendary, even though it didn't 00:06:41.040 --> 00:06:44.100 last long. Such a creative hub. Cross joined 00:06:44.100 --> 00:06:46.720 as a writer near the end of its run. He popped 00:06:46.720 --> 00:06:48.459 up in some sketches, too, but mostly writing. 00:06:48.939 --> 00:06:51.100 Involved in classics like The Legend of T .J. 00:06:51.120 --> 00:06:52.819 O 'Pooter, too. And critically, that's where 00:06:52.819 --> 00:06:55.100 he connected with Bob Odenkirk. The meeting that 00:06:55.100 --> 00:06:58.019 changed everything, really. And that partnership 00:06:58.019 --> 00:07:00.459 paid off almost immediately. He won that Emmy 00:07:00.459 --> 00:07:03.040 for writing in 93, right as the show was ending. 00:07:03.199 --> 00:07:05.180 So he had this industry validation, this Emmy 00:07:05.180 --> 00:07:07.699 award, right before launching his own defining 00:07:07.699 --> 00:07:11.120 project. Exactly. Which was, of course, Mr. Show 00:07:11.120 --> 00:07:14.740 with Bob and David. From 95 to 98 on HBO. This 00:07:14.740 --> 00:07:17.180 thing was just... Foundational for a whole generation 00:07:17.180 --> 00:07:19.540 of comedians. He co -created it, wrote it, produced 00:07:19.540 --> 00:07:21.680 it, starred in it. The whole deal. And it wasn't 00:07:21.680 --> 00:07:24.240 just sketches. It was meta comedy. Always breaking 00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:27.220 the fourth wall, referencing itself, linking 00:07:27.220 --> 00:07:29.720 sketches in these weird, intricate ways. It got 00:07:29.720 --> 00:07:31.939 Emmy nominations too, right? For the writing 00:07:31.939 --> 00:07:34.319 and the show itself. Three nominations for his 00:07:34.319 --> 00:07:37.370 work on it. It cemented its place as like the 00:07:37.370 --> 00:07:40.670 absolute peak of alternative conceptual TV comedy 00:07:40.670 --> 00:07:43.250 at the time. You can see its DNA in so many shows 00:07:43.250 --> 00:07:45.350 that came later. Key and Peele, Tim and Eric, 00:07:45.470 --> 00:07:47.949 that kind of stuff. The writing was just so smart, 00:07:48.050 --> 00:07:50.189 avoiding the easy punchline. So the influence 00:07:50.189 --> 00:07:52.730 was huge. And Hollywood started noticing not 00:07:52.730 --> 00:07:54.889 just the writer, but the performer, too. The 00:07:54.889 --> 00:07:57.290 unique presence. Yeah, they realized they wanted 00:07:57.290 --> 00:07:59.649 that weird energy on screen. So he started branching 00:07:59.649 --> 00:08:01.389 out pretty quickly into film roles and voice 00:08:01.389 --> 00:08:03.610 acting. And those early film roles really show 00:08:03.610 --> 00:08:05.759 that split. talked about, like Men in Black in 00:08:05.759 --> 00:08:08.339 97. Huge blockbuster, global hit. And who does 00:08:08.339 --> 00:08:11.000 he play? Newton, the weird morgue attendant. 00:08:11.339 --> 00:08:14.439 The slightly creepy conspiracy theory -ish guy. 00:08:14.579 --> 00:08:16.800 Exactly. He's in the mainstream machine, but 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:20.040 he's cast as the quirky off -kilter element within 00:08:20.040 --> 00:08:22.410 it. And he came back for the sequel. Yep, Men 00:08:22.410 --> 00:08:25.370 in Black 2 in 2002. Newton's now running a video 00:08:25.370 --> 00:08:28.250 store, still on the strange periphery. Massive 00:08:28.250 --> 00:08:30.910 films, but he's the alt -comedy figure inserted 00:08:30.910 --> 00:08:32.889 into them. His voice work kind of followed that 00:08:32.889 --> 00:08:35.429 pattern too, right? Playing very specific characters. 00:08:35.889 --> 00:08:38.730 Definitely. Like, he was a Marine in the video 00:08:38.730 --> 00:08:41.490 game Halo 2. The Clerks Zero and Grand Theft 00:08:41.490 --> 00:08:44.610 Auto. San Andreas. Roles that need a certain 00:08:44.610 --> 00:08:47.129 niche delivery. And Happy Time Harry in Aqua 00:08:47.129 --> 00:08:49.629 Teen Hunger Force. That call was disturbing. 00:08:49.830 --> 00:08:52.750 Yes. Perfectly unsettling voice work. But there's 00:08:52.750 --> 00:08:54.649 another voice connection that's less known, but 00:08:54.649 --> 00:08:57.590 really underlines his commitment to pure audio 00:08:57.590 --> 00:09:00.470 performance. His work with Joe Frank. Ah, the 00:09:00.470 --> 00:09:02.789 avant -garde radio guy. Yeah. Cross appeared 00:09:02.789 --> 00:09:05.309 in several of Frank's experimental radio programs, 00:09:05.509 --> 00:09:08.210 starting way back in 94 with things like A Hearing, 00:09:08.429 --> 00:09:11.080 The Last Run. which became the OJ Chronicles. 00:09:11.159 --> 00:09:13.500 He played OJ's valet in that. So even while he's 00:09:13.500 --> 00:09:16.440 getting Emmys and doing blockbusters, he's still 00:09:16.440 --> 00:09:19.980 doing this really niche, difficult, experimental 00:09:19.980 --> 00:09:23.440 radio drama. Right up until 2015, apparently. 00:09:23.600 --> 00:09:26.879 It just shows that need to always have a foot 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:29.639 outside the mainstream, doing something purely 00:09:29.639 --> 00:09:32.169 for the art, maybe. It's a perfect example of 00:09:32.169 --> 00:09:34.129 that duality. And that whole trajectory, the 00:09:34.129 --> 00:09:36.649 writing, the unique performance style, the mainstream 00:09:36.649 --> 00:09:39.730 adjacent roles, it all leads perfectly into the 00:09:39.730 --> 00:09:42.070 character that really blew up his public profile. 00:09:42.370 --> 00:09:44.409 The character that became almost synonymous with 00:09:44.409 --> 00:09:47.070 him, even if it started small. Yeah. Tobias Finke 00:09:47.070 --> 00:09:49.269 -McCool. Dr. Finke, co -starring in Arrested 00:09:49.269 --> 00:09:52.289 Development, starting in 2003. The irony is just 00:09:52.289 --> 00:09:54.970 amazing that this huge, defining role, it was 00:09:54.970 --> 00:09:57.850 supposed to be minor. Just a small part. Initially, 00:09:57.950 --> 00:10:01.090 but the writers and Cross himself just ran with 00:10:01.090 --> 00:10:03.710 it and turned him into this like absolute comedic 00:10:03.710 --> 00:10:05.850 engine for the whole dysfunctional blue family 00:10:05.850 --> 00:10:08.730 saga. The world's first anal rapist, analyst 00:10:08.730 --> 00:10:11.470 and therapist who wants to be an actor is a never 00:10:11.470 --> 00:10:14.289 nude has all this denial. It was just the perfect 00:10:14.289 --> 00:10:17.350 storm for Cross's style. High concept, painfully 00:10:17.350 --> 00:10:19.570 self -aware, but also completely clueless comedy 00:10:19.570 --> 00:10:22.860 all wrapped up in one character. All that subtext 00:10:22.860 --> 00:10:26.500 with Tobias, the accidental double entendres, 00:10:26.679 --> 00:10:29.019 the desperate need for validation, the professional 00:10:29.019 --> 00:10:32.299 failure hidden by pure delusion. It let Cross 00:10:32.299 --> 00:10:35.440 use that intricate, detailed style he honed on 00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:38.100 Mr. Show, but in a more, you know, traditional 00:10:38.100 --> 00:10:40.799 sitcom format. Sort of traditional. Arrested 00:10:40.799 --> 00:10:43.000 Development pushed boundaries, too. But yeah, 00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:45.320 it brought him huge recognition. That Satellite 00:10:45.320 --> 00:10:47.720 Award nomination plus the three SAG nominations 00:10:47.720 --> 00:10:50.090 for the ensemble. And besides Tobias, he was 00:10:50.090 --> 00:10:52.009 still doing other stuff. Guest roles on more 00:10:52.009 --> 00:10:54.350 standard comedies. Yeah, popping up on Just Shoot 00:10:54.350 --> 00:10:57.169 Me, The Drew Carey Show, News Radio. Showing 00:10:57.169 --> 00:10:59.309 range. But he also kept trying to launch his 00:10:59.309 --> 00:11:01.570 own things. Projects that were closer to his 00:11:01.570 --> 00:11:04.210 darker, more specific humor. Like that animated 00:11:04.210 --> 00:11:07.659 show. Freak show. Right, in 2006. That leaned 00:11:07.659 --> 00:11:09.960 much more into his black comedy sensibilities. 00:11:10.220 --> 00:11:12.240 But it didn't really find an audience, got canceled 00:11:12.240 --> 00:11:14.500 pretty fast, which maybe shows that while his 00:11:14.500 --> 00:11:17.379 voice is strong, the market for his really specific 00:11:17.379 --> 00:11:20.000 stuff isn't always huge. He also had that regular 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:23.379 gig doing political satire on TV, playing Russ 00:11:23.379 --> 00:11:25.440 Lieber on The Colbert Report. Yeah, from 2005 00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:28.639 to 2007, Colbert's liberal nemesis. The radio 00:11:28.639 --> 00:11:30.700 host from Madison, Wisconsin. That was a great 00:11:30.700 --> 00:11:33.259 bit. It was vital. Because it let him inject 00:11:33.259 --> 00:11:36.059 his actual political viewpoint, or at least satire 00:11:36.059 --> 00:11:38.240 of that viewpoint, right back into the mainstream 00:11:38.240 --> 00:11:40.899 conversation on a show that was all about media 00:11:40.899 --> 00:11:44.580 critique. And that kind of direct political engagement 00:11:44.580 --> 00:11:47.240 fits perfectly with his next big creator project, 00:11:47.500 --> 00:11:49.840 the increasingly poor decisions of Todd Margaret. 00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:51.879 Oh, Todd Margaret. Yeah, that ran from 2010 to 00:11:51.879 --> 00:11:55.240 2016. Cross -created, wrote, produced, starred. 00:11:56.330 --> 00:11:58.549 The whole thing again. And that show is pure 00:11:58.549 --> 00:12:01.970 distilled cross, isn't it? Very dark, very uncomfortable. 00:12:02.129 --> 00:12:04.789 Absolutely. It's that really painful, cringy 00:12:04.789 --> 00:12:08.080 British style black comedy. Just. escalating 00:12:08.080 --> 00:12:10.860 failure todd margaret's this awful incompetent 00:12:10.860 --> 00:12:13.480 liar and everything he touches just collapses 00:12:13.480 --> 00:12:15.919 catastrophically it perfected that kind of cringe 00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:18.220 humor where you almost can't watch but the downward 00:12:18.220 --> 00:12:21.120 spiral is so meticulously plotted it's different 00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:23.600 from tobias whose pain is more internal delusion 00:12:23.600 --> 00:12:26.639 todd margaret actively ruins lives yeah it's 00:12:26.639 --> 00:12:32.080 bleak but structurally brilliant so okay We've 00:12:32.080 --> 00:12:34.340 got the alternative pioneer, the Emmy winner, 00:12:34.519 --> 00:12:38.419 the political voice, the sitcom megastar. Now 00:12:38.419 --> 00:12:40.179 we have to get into where it all crashes together. 00:12:40.259 --> 00:12:42.740 The commerce, the conflict, the controversies. 00:12:42.740 --> 00:12:44.500 This is where it gets really interesting. This 00:12:44.500 --> 00:12:46.799 is where the story gets dramatic, yeah. Because 00:12:46.799 --> 00:12:50.419 he just refuses to separate his opinions, artistic, 00:12:50.759 --> 00:12:53.399 political, from his work. Even when it clearly 00:12:53.399 --> 00:12:56.539 costs him. And nothing symbolizes that more than 00:12:56.539 --> 00:12:59.000 the whole Alvin and the Chipmunks saga. The ultimate 00:12:59.000 --> 00:13:02.490 symbol, yes. Starring as the villain Ian Hawke 00:13:02.490 --> 00:13:05.850 in the first three films starting in 2007. Pure 00:13:05.850 --> 00:13:08.750 mainstream family entertainment. The polar opposite 00:13:08.750 --> 00:13:11.110 of Mr. Show. And apparently he initially turned 00:13:11.110 --> 00:13:13.549 it down, which says a lot right there. You did. 00:13:13.629 --> 00:13:15.889 He reconsidered, eventually took the part. Yeah. 00:13:15.970 --> 00:13:17.570 Presumably, you know, the paycheck for a big 00:13:17.570 --> 00:13:19.730 studio franchise is hard to ignore. Which led 00:13:19.730 --> 00:13:22.629 to that famous industry joke from Patton Oswalt. 00:13:22.730 --> 00:13:24.909 Oh, yeah. Oswalt joked that he and Brian Pozen 00:13:24.909 --> 00:13:26.509 read the script, threw it across the room in 00:13:26.509 --> 00:13:29.740 disgust, and David Cross caught it. Oof. It just 00:13:29.740 --> 00:13:32.100 perfectly captures how some in the comedy world 00:13:32.100 --> 00:13:34.679 saw it, like a betrayal or maybe just a necessary 00:13:34.679 --> 00:13:37.639 compromise. But the real drama exploded around 00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:41.220 the third movie, Chipwrecked, in 2011. Cross 00:13:41.220 --> 00:13:44.080 did not hold back about that experience. He called 00:13:44.080 --> 00:13:46.559 it... Literally without question, the most unpleasant 00:13:46.559 --> 00:13:48.759 experience I've ever had in my professional life. 00:13:48.840 --> 00:13:51.600 Pretty strong words. And he got specific. He 00:13:51.600 --> 00:13:54.700 publicly accused an unnamed female producer of 00:13:54.700 --> 00:13:56.980 anti -Semitism, of mistreating him during the 00:13:56.980 --> 00:14:00.080 shoot. But the craziest part, the peak absurdity, 00:14:00.159 --> 00:14:03.100 was the cruise ship. The pelican suit incident. 00:14:03.200 --> 00:14:06.039 He said he was forced at legal gunpoint, obviously 00:14:06.039 --> 00:14:08.940 hyperbole, but showing how trapped he felt to 00:14:08.940 --> 00:14:11.200 spend a week filming on a carnival cruise. But 00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:13.080 not as Ian Hawke, the character people would 00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:16.179 recognize. He had to wear an unrecognizable pelican 00:14:16.179 --> 00:14:18.360 suit. For a whole week. Yeah. And his argument, 00:14:18.460 --> 00:14:20.740 which seems totally reasonable, was that it was 00:14:20.740 --> 00:14:22.720 pointless because he had no lines during that 00:14:22.720 --> 00:14:24.899 filming and nobody could tell it was him anyway. 00:14:25.360 --> 00:14:28.159 The image is just... Incredible. The Mr. Show 00:14:28.159 --> 00:14:30.960 guy, forced into a sweaty mascot suit on a cruise 00:14:30.960 --> 00:14:33.720 ship for a kid's movie. The ultimate indignity, 00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:35.779 maybe. And he spoke out about it, knowing it 00:14:35.779 --> 00:14:38.019 would likely cause trouble. And it did. It cost 00:14:38.019 --> 00:14:42.600 him his bonus. $150 ,000. Wow. for violating 00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:44.580 the non -disparagement clause in his contract. 00:14:44.779 --> 00:14:47.899 That specific number, $150K, it puts a price 00:14:47.899 --> 00:14:50.899 tag on his refusal to just stay quiet. It shows 00:14:50.899 --> 00:14:53.639 that his outrage, his satire, it's not just an 00:14:53.639 --> 00:14:56.779 act. He's willing to pay literally to speak his 00:14:56.779 --> 00:14:59.200 mind, which is a fascinating contrast to those 00:14:59.200 --> 00:15:01.940 early years of financial struggle. And that refusal 00:15:01.940 --> 00:15:03.919 to just shut up and take the money, it played 00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:06.179 out in public feuds, too. The big one was with 00:15:06.179 --> 00:15:08.940 Larry the Cable Guy. Right. Back in 2005, Cross 00:15:08.940 --> 00:15:10.840 went after him in Rolling Stone. Yeah. Called 00:15:10.840 --> 00:15:14.179 his act anti -gay, racist humor. Said it represented 00:15:14.179 --> 00:15:16.659 vague American values and anti -intellectual 00:15:16.659 --> 00:15:18.460 pride. It wasn't just a bad review. It was an 00:15:18.460 --> 00:15:21.200 ideological assault. Like he was continuing that 00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:23.679 fight against the dumb comedy he hated back in 00:15:23.679 --> 00:15:25.980 Boston. Pretty much. And Larry, understandably, 00:15:25.980 --> 00:15:28.559 was furious. He dedicated a whole chapter in 00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:31.220 his book, G .I .T. Ardone, to Cross and the PC 00:15:31.220 --> 00:15:33.840 left, saying Cross messed with his fans. It was 00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:36.129 this open culture. war in comedy. How did Cross 00:15:36.129 --> 00:15:39.450 respond? With more satire, basically. He posted 00:15:39.450 --> 00:15:42.070 an open letter to Larry the Cable Guy online, 00:15:42.210 --> 00:15:45.730 kept mocking the act in his stand -up, famously 00:15:45.730 --> 00:15:49.289 ended a TV performance by yelling, as he walked 00:15:49.289 --> 00:15:52.110 off stage. He even created a character, Danny 00:15:52.110 --> 00:15:54.389 the Plumber Guy, in Freak Show to parody the 00:15:54.389 --> 00:15:57.129 whole blue -collar comedy thing. So, sustained 00:15:57.129 --> 00:15:59.830 mockery. But not all his conflicts ended like 00:15:59.830 --> 00:16:02.389 that. The story with James Lipton is quite different, 00:16:02.470 --> 00:16:04.909 right? Yeah, that one's fascinating. A moment 00:16:04.909 --> 00:16:08.250 of unexpected reconciliation. Cross had initially 00:16:08.250 --> 00:16:10.789 made fun of Lipton, the host of Inside the Actors 00:16:10.789 --> 00:16:13.649 Studio, called him pretentious in Mr. Show Sketches 00:16:13.649 --> 00:16:16.529 in his stand -up. Mocking that very earnest, 00:16:16.730 --> 00:16:19.909 almost fawning interview style Lipton had. Exactly. 00:16:19.970 --> 00:16:22.250 But then Lipton got cast in Arrested Development. 00:16:22.490 --> 00:16:24.970 He played Warden Stiff and Gentles. The prison 00:16:24.970 --> 00:16:27.230 warden. He was great in that. Apparently Cross 00:16:27.230 --> 00:16:29.929 was completely won over by him on set. impressed 00:16:29.929 --> 00:16:32.610 by his professionalism, his comedic timing, his 00:16:32.610 --> 00:16:34.450 actual acting skill. And they became friends. 00:16:34.950 --> 00:16:37.070 Yeah, they actually became good friends. Cross 00:16:37.070 --> 00:16:39.190 still maintained he didn't care for the show 00:16:39.190 --> 00:16:41.950 inside the actor's studio. He didn't backtrack 00:16:41.950 --> 00:16:44.750 on his critique of that. But he genuinely liked 00:16:44.750 --> 00:16:47.350 and respected Lipton, the person and the performer. 00:16:48.129 --> 00:16:51.210 It shows even Cross could be disarmed by talent. 00:16:51.789 --> 00:16:54.190 OK, let's move into some of the more recent controversies. 00:16:54.409 --> 00:16:56.970 He keeps generating headlines by speaking out, 00:16:57.029 --> 00:16:58.870 sometimes in ways that get pretty complicated. 00:16:59.049 --> 00:17:01.269 We should just report these impartially based 00:17:01.269 --> 00:17:03.950 on the sources. Right. In 2017, there was the 00:17:03.950 --> 00:17:06.390 incident with Charlene Yee. They reported he'd 00:17:06.390 --> 00:17:08.509 made racially insensitive comments to them years 00:17:08.509 --> 00:17:11.250 earlier, back in the mid 2000s. How did he respond 00:17:11.250 --> 00:17:14.450 to that? He apologized. He later theorized, according 00:17:14.450 --> 00:17:16.289 to the sources, that he might have been doing 00:17:16.289 --> 00:17:18.910 an impression. like a satirical take on a Southern 00:17:18.910 --> 00:17:21.730 redneck character trying to mock racism but failing, 00:17:21.930 --> 00:17:23.829 and that the comments were hurtful regardless 00:17:23.829 --> 00:17:26.369 of intent. The apology suggested some reflection 00:17:26.369 --> 00:17:28.710 on how his style could land badly. Then there 00:17:28.710 --> 00:17:31.549 was the Utah incident in 2018 with the Mormon 00:17:31.549 --> 00:17:34.589 garments. Yeah, that caused a huge stir. He was 00:17:34.589 --> 00:17:36.890 promoting a show in Salt Lake City and tweeted 00:17:36.890 --> 00:17:39.910 a photo of himself wearing what he called Mormon 00:17:39.910 --> 00:17:42.289 religious undergarments. Predictably, that did 00:17:42.289 --> 00:17:46.269 not go over well. No. Immediate protests. people 00:17:46.269 --> 00:17:48.930 calling it mockery of sacred beliefs, it got 00:17:48.930 --> 00:17:50.890 serious enough that the president of the University 00:17:50.890 --> 00:17:53.670 of Utah, where he was performing, issued a statement. 00:17:53.829 --> 00:17:55.849 What did the statement say? It condemned the 00:17:55.849 --> 00:17:58.509 image as deeply offensive, called it bigotry, 00:17:58.529 --> 00:18:02.109 but also upheld Cross's First Amendment right 00:18:02.109 --> 00:18:05.029 to perform on campus. It was this real flashpoint 00:18:05.029 --> 00:18:07.349 between free expression and religious sensitivity. 00:18:07.730 --> 00:18:09.670 And his political statements have remained pointed, 00:18:09.890 --> 00:18:13.809 globally even. Very much so. In 2025, sources 00:18:13.809 --> 00:18:16.069 report him calling the state of Israel corrupt 00:18:16.069 --> 00:18:19.650 and an apartheid state. Very strong language. 00:18:19.869 --> 00:18:22.430 Also in 2025, he spoke out against the Riyadh 00:18:22.430 --> 00:18:24.549 Comedy Festival. Yeah, condemned it because of 00:18:24.549 --> 00:18:27.049 Saudi Arabia's human rights record, called the 00:18:27.049 --> 00:18:29.230 government literally the most oppressive regime 00:18:29.230 --> 00:18:32.190 on earth, and said comedians performing there 00:18:32.190 --> 00:18:34.950 were taking blood money. He directly linked the 00:18:34.950 --> 00:18:37.250 performers' paychecks to the regime's actions. 00:18:37.549 --> 00:18:39.750 He really doesn't moderate his stance, does he? 00:18:40.220 --> 00:18:42.160 Which kind of leads us back to looking at his 00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:45.259 broader artistic interests. What drives these 00:18:45.259 --> 00:18:48.220 choices? What influences him? His stated influences 00:18:48.220 --> 00:18:50.200 make a lot of sense when you look at his work. 00:18:50.380 --> 00:18:52.740 People like Bill Hicks, Andy Kaufman, Richard 00:18:52.740 --> 00:18:56.319 Pryor, Lenny Bruce. The anti -establishment icons. 00:18:56.460 --> 00:18:58.960 The conceptual guys. You can see the direct lineage. 00:18:59.220 --> 00:19:01.980 Hicks and Bruce for the political bite. Kaufman 00:19:01.980 --> 00:19:04.220 and Monty Python for the meta -comedy and sketch 00:19:04.220 --> 00:19:06.859 structure. But he also sized classics like Lou 00:19:06.859 --> 00:19:09.200 Costello and Stephen Wright. So it's not just 00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:10.859 about the message. It's also about the craft, 00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:13.940 the timing, the construction of comedy. And these 00:19:13.940 --> 00:19:16.279 sensibilities show up across different mediums, 00:19:16.279 --> 00:19:18.619 right? His voice acting continued to be prominent 00:19:18.619 --> 00:19:20.779 even while he was doing live action. Oh, yeah. 00:19:21.099 --> 00:19:23.859 Long -running major roles. He was Crane in the 00:19:23.859 --> 00:19:26.599 Kung Fu Panda movies for years. Minion and Megamind. 00:19:26.740 --> 00:19:29.460 And maybe most significantly in terms of satire, 00:19:29.460 --> 00:19:32.630 he was the white voice in... Sorry to bother 00:19:32.630 --> 00:19:34.910 you. That's such a perfect role for him, isn't 00:19:34.910 --> 00:19:37.450 it? Sorry to bother you. Is this incredibly sharp, 00:19:37.589 --> 00:19:41.289 anti -capitalist satire. And he provides the 00:19:41.289 --> 00:19:43.650 voice that the main character uses to succeed 00:19:43.650 --> 00:19:46.349 in that corporate world, the voice of assimilation 00:19:46.349 --> 00:19:50.190 and arguably oppression. That lets him be part 00:19:50.190 --> 00:19:52.849 of cutting -edge satire even while he's, you 00:19:52.849 --> 00:19:55.089 know, also voicing Crane the Kung Fu Bird. He 00:19:55.089 --> 00:19:57.289 also stepped behind the camera himself as a director. 00:19:57.569 --> 00:20:00.130 Yeah, he wrote and directed the film Hits in 00:20:00.130 --> 00:20:02.650 2014. But, of course, he couldn't just release 00:20:02.650 --> 00:20:04.190 it normally. You know, he had to make a statement 00:20:04.190 --> 00:20:06.869 with the distribution, too. Exactly. He chose 00:20:06.869 --> 00:20:09.069 this really unique, almost political strategy. 00:20:09.730 --> 00:20:12.640 He sold the film initially over BitTorrent. Using 00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:15.119 their bundles program, apparently the first feature 00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:17.299 film ever distributed that way. And then a Kickstarter. 00:20:17.579 --> 00:20:19.319 Yeah, launch a Kickstarter for the wider release 00:20:19.319 --> 00:20:21.720 using a pay -what -you -want model. It was clearly 00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:24.299 a statement about creator control, bypassing 00:20:24.299 --> 00:20:26.279 traditional distribution, digital ownership. 00:20:26.779 --> 00:20:29.700 Very philosophical. Speaking of alternative culture 00:20:29.700 --> 00:20:32.279 and surprising connections, the Beastie Boys 00:20:32.279 --> 00:20:34.740 link is pretty great. Isn't it? Links him right 00:20:34.740 --> 00:20:37.140 into that Gen X counterculture music scene. He's 00:20:37.140 --> 00:20:40.849 friends with them, a fan. And amazingly, his 00:20:40.849 --> 00:20:42.710 voice is sampled at the start of their track. 00:20:43.029 --> 00:20:46.009 Check it out. And the story behind that is hilarious. 00:20:46.589 --> 00:20:49.250 Mike D didn't believe it was him. Apparently 00:20:49.250 --> 00:20:51.769 not. Cross had to actually do the voice for him 00:20:51.769 --> 00:20:54.880 on the spot to prove it was his sample. Which 00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:56.880 just highlights how unique his vocal delivery 00:20:56.880 --> 00:20:58.900 must be. He was in their Mix and Noise video 00:20:58.900 --> 00:21:02.259 too, right? Yep. And more recently, he had that 00:21:02.259 --> 00:21:04.740 funny post -credit scene in the Beastie Boys 00:21:04.740 --> 00:21:07.339 story documentary where he pops up to make fun 00:21:07.339 --> 00:21:10.079 of their second album, Paul's Boutique, for bombing 00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:12.819 initially. It's that affectionate insider kind 00:21:12.819 --> 00:21:14.720 of ribbing. He also put out a book, didn't he? 00:21:14.819 --> 00:21:17.859 Yeah. I mean, Drink for a Reason, 2009. A collection 00:21:17.859 --> 00:21:20.380 of memoirs, satirical fictional memoirs, stuff 00:21:20.380 --> 00:21:22.859 he published before. Kind of an autobiography 00:21:22.859 --> 00:21:25.900 through that specific cross lens. Again, blending 00:21:25.900 --> 00:21:28.539 the personal, the political, the satirical. And 00:21:28.539 --> 00:21:30.680 just a couple of key personal details that seem 00:21:30.680 --> 00:21:33.079 relevant. He's married to the actress Amber Tamblyn. 00:21:33.079 --> 00:21:35.779 They have a daughter. He holds dual British and 00:21:35.779 --> 00:21:39.170 American citizenship. And he explicitly describes 00:21:39.170 --> 00:21:42.589 his politics as definitely more socialist Democrat 00:21:42.589 --> 00:21:46.549 than centrist politician. So the public stances, 00:21:46.549 --> 00:21:48.529 they seem to come from a genuine place. It's 00:21:48.529 --> 00:21:51.210 not just persona. But maybe the most surprising 00:21:51.210 --> 00:21:53.670 validating piece of trivia connecting back to 00:21:53.670 --> 00:21:56.450 his anti -establishment side is the Kickstarter 00:21:56.450 --> 00:21:59.289 thing. Oh, right. That revelation from co -founder 00:21:59.289 --> 00:22:02.390 Yancey Strickler that David Cross was literally 00:22:02.390 --> 00:22:05.519 the first investor in Kickstarter. Back in 2006, 00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:08.000 part of the initial friends and family round. 00:22:08.299 --> 00:22:10.619 It's perfect, isn't it? The guy railing against 00:22:10.619 --> 00:22:13.039 the industry was simultaneously helping fund 00:22:13.039 --> 00:22:15.420 the platform designed to let creators bypass 00:22:15.420 --> 00:22:17.920 that same industry. It totally encapsulates the 00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:20.480 paradox. He helped build the escape hatch while 00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:22.579 also starring in the machine he was critiquing. 00:22:22.619 --> 00:22:24.660 So wrapping this up, we keep coming back to this 00:22:24.660 --> 00:22:27.640 core tension. He's managed to be both this fiercely 00:22:27.640 --> 00:22:30.119 political alternative comic writing for Vice, 00:22:30.359 --> 00:22:32.759 doing aggressive stand -up, and at the same time, 00:22:32.819 --> 00:22:35.720 a super visible part of mainstream family entertainment. 00:22:36.440 --> 00:22:38.799 sometimes, like with the chipmunks, to his own 00:22:38.799 --> 00:22:41.700 very public, very expensive regret. He really 00:22:41.700 --> 00:22:44.200 is the embodiment of that clash between art and 00:22:44.200 --> 00:22:47.579 commerce in today's media world. He reached the 00:22:47.579 --> 00:22:50.220 heights of mainstream fame, but often through 00:22:50.220 --> 00:22:52.779 roles that made him miserable, and he never stopped 00:22:52.779 --> 00:22:55.349 criticizing the system that paid him. He's like 00:22:55.349 --> 00:22:58.049 the ultimate outsider who got inside and then 00:22:58.049 --> 00:22:59.529 just started poking everything with a stick. 00:22:59.690 --> 00:23:02.210 He used the mainstream platform, the money, to 00:23:02.210 --> 00:23:05.069 fuel the niche stuff. The indie film with the 00:23:05.069 --> 00:23:07.470 weird distribution, investing, Kickstarter, his 00:23:07.470 --> 00:23:10.150 relentless touring. It's not just a contradiction. 00:23:10.210 --> 00:23:13.650 Maybe it's a strategy, a disruptive one. So the 00:23:13.650 --> 00:23:15.210 big question this leaves us with, connecting 00:23:15.210 --> 00:23:17.650 it all back, what does his career tell us about 00:23:17.650 --> 00:23:20.400 comedy now? You look at his reputation for confrontation, 00:23:20.759 --> 00:23:23.039 all the controversies, the chipmunk stuff, the 00:23:23.039 --> 00:23:25.380 Mormon garments photo, the political statement. 00:23:25.519 --> 00:23:28.339 Does being that provocative, that potentially 00:23:28.339 --> 00:23:31.160 offensive actually hurt a career anymore? Or 00:23:31.160 --> 00:23:33.480 has the landscape shifted so much that maybe 00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:35.660 those controversies just solidify your brand, 00:23:35.859 --> 00:23:38.039 make you seem more authentic or like a truth 00:23:38.039 --> 00:23:41.220 teller to your specific audience? Exactly. What 00:23:41.220 --> 00:23:43.960 are the actual limits or maybe the lack of limits 00:23:43.960 --> 00:23:46.380 for anti -establishment humor? what operates 00:23:46.380 --> 00:23:48.819 right inside the mainstream marketplace. Does 00:23:48.819 --> 00:23:51.400 the machine just absorb the critique now? That's 00:23:51.400 --> 00:23:52.779 definitely something to think about the next 00:23:52.779 --> 00:23:54.420 time you see a comedian really going for it.