WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.839 Welcome to the Deep Dive. Today, we're taking 00:00:02.839 --> 00:00:04.820 a really close look at the career of an American 00:00:04.820 --> 00:00:08.640 filmmaker, Scott Cooper. He's, well, he's kind 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:10.480 of quietly built this reputation, hasn't he? 00:00:10.560 --> 00:00:13.740 He really has. One of contemporary cinema's, 00:00:13.740 --> 00:00:16.239 you know, most essential voices when it comes 00:00:16.239 --> 00:00:18.980 to character -driven drama. Definitely. A director 00:00:18.980 --> 00:00:21.500 whose work, it's all about atmosphere. Right. 00:00:21.660 --> 00:00:24.359 And this deep sense of place. Characters often 00:00:24.359 --> 00:00:27.850 feel, well, trapped. Trapped by history, by their 00:00:27.850 --> 00:00:29.570 circumstances. Yeah, and when you actually lay 00:00:29.570 --> 00:00:32.689 out his films side by side, think about Out of 00:00:32.689 --> 00:00:36.590 the Furnace, the decaying towns, or Black Mass 00:00:36.590 --> 00:00:39.789 with the whole Boston Irish mob history. It's 00:00:39.789 --> 00:00:42.770 pretty clear you're looking at an auteur. He 00:00:42.770 --> 00:00:45.509 seems obsessed, really, with grounding these 00:00:45.509 --> 00:00:48.409 harsh, often violent stories in a very gritty, 00:00:48.530 --> 00:00:51.229 very unflinching regional reality. Absolutely. 00:00:51.229 --> 00:00:53.270 So our mission today for you listening is to 00:00:53.270 --> 00:00:55.679 sort of map that journey. Quickly, but... you 00:00:55.679 --> 00:00:57.979 know thoroughly how did he go from being a supporting 00:00:57.979 --> 00:01:00.700 actor for a decade to like almost overnight directing 00:01:00.700 --> 00:01:03.460 an oscar -winning film and what ties it all together 00:01:03.460 --> 00:01:05.920 what are those recurring themes because you've 00:01:05.920 --> 00:01:08.780 got films that seem so different on the surface 00:01:08.780 --> 00:01:11.659 you know downbeat country music story crazy art 00:01:11.659 --> 00:01:14.060 right and then something like antlers which is 00:01:14.060 --> 00:01:17.500 what mythological horror based on the wendigo 00:01:17.500 --> 00:01:21.040 legend yeah quite a leap It really is. So it's 00:01:21.040 --> 00:01:23.799 a study in artistic evolution, but a focused 00:01:23.799 --> 00:01:27.200 one. We're trying to uncover that connective 00:01:27.200 --> 00:01:29.540 tissue between these really dark narratives. 00:01:29.719 --> 00:01:31.519 We're looking at these surprising genre shifts, 00:01:31.599 --> 00:01:34.120 like you said, but underneath there's this remarkable 00:01:34.120 --> 00:01:37.400 consistency in theme and purpose. Exactly. The 00:01:37.400 --> 00:01:39.140 hook is always the character study, right? The 00:01:39.140 --> 00:01:40.959 intensity of it doesn't really matter if the 00:01:40.959 --> 00:01:43.500 backdrop is true crime or, you know, something 00:01:43.500 --> 00:01:46.180 supernatural. And his next project, the one about 00:01:46.180 --> 00:01:48.939 Bruce Springsteen's Nebraska album. that just 00:01:48.939 --> 00:01:53.159 seems to double down on this commitment to American 00:01:53.159 --> 00:01:56.200 tragedy and deep character work. It feels like 00:01:56.200 --> 00:01:59.939 a culmination in a way. Yeah. So this deep dive, 00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:02.400 it's your shortcut really to understanding the 00:02:02.400 --> 00:02:05.579 DNA of a filmmaker who keeps drawing these huge 00:02:05.579 --> 00:02:09.319 stars into these, well, dark, profound cinematic 00:02:09.319 --> 00:02:12.699 explorations. Okay. Let's, um, let's unpack this 00:02:12.699 --> 00:02:15.300 starting with his roots. So before he was, you 00:02:15.300 --> 00:02:17.219 know, the guy directing Christian Bale at Jeff 00:02:17.219 --> 00:02:20.240 Bridges, Scott Cooper was very much a man rooted 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:22.500 in the American South, specifically Appalachia. 00:02:22.659 --> 00:02:26.900 Born April 20, 1970, Abingdon, Virginia. Which 00:02:26.900 --> 00:02:29.639 makes him, what, 55 based on our sources? That's 00:02:29.639 --> 00:02:33.219 right. And Abingdon, that location feels absolutely 00:02:33.219 --> 00:02:35.379 key, doesn't it? Oh, totally crucial. It's right 00:02:35.379 --> 00:02:38.180 in the heart of Appalachia. And that region's 00:02:38.180 --> 00:02:41.080 culture, it's defined by these tight -knit communities, 00:02:41.240 --> 00:02:44.120 sure, but also economic struggle, a really profound 00:02:44.120 --> 00:02:46.460 sense of history, sometimes maybe even a bit 00:02:46.460 --> 00:02:48.639 claustrophobic. And that's the backdrop, isn't 00:02:48.639 --> 00:02:51.039 it? The place he'd later mine for, like emotional 00:02:51.039 --> 00:02:53.379 gold. You feel it so strongly and out of the 00:02:53.379 --> 00:02:55.740 furnace, definitely crazy hard too. They feel 00:02:55.740 --> 00:02:58.039 soaked in that specific geography. They really 00:02:58.039 --> 00:02:59.659 do. And it's interesting. He didn't just, you 00:02:59.659 --> 00:03:01.319 know, go straight from film school to directing 00:03:01.319 --> 00:03:04.000 like a lot of people do. No, he built this foundation 00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:06.800 that was kind of academic, but also really practical. 00:03:07.539 --> 00:03:10.120 Graduated Abingdon High in 88, but didn't just 00:03:10.120 --> 00:03:12.199 rush off to Hollywood. Right. You can see the 00:03:12.199 --> 00:03:14.180 intellectual side. He got his undergrad degree 00:03:14.180 --> 00:03:17.460 in 1992 from Hampton Sydney College in Virginia. 00:03:18.139 --> 00:03:20.819 OK. And they actually honored him later, 2014, 00:03:21.199 --> 00:03:25.159 with a Doctor of Humane Letters. Wow. Yeah. So 00:03:25.159 --> 00:03:27.419 that academic background, it suggests someone 00:03:27.419 --> 00:03:30.300 who thinks deeply about narrative, about structure, 00:03:30.479 --> 00:03:33.060 you know, a literary mind, which probably explains 00:03:33.060 --> 00:03:35.060 some of the weight, the seriousness you feel 00:03:35.060 --> 00:03:37.120 in his scripts. And then he paired that academic 00:03:37.120 --> 00:03:40.439 side with intense acting training, formal training. 00:03:40.599 --> 00:03:43.199 Yeah. At the Lee Strasberg Theater and Film Institute 00:03:43.199 --> 00:03:45.719 in New York. Really prestigious. So that combination. 00:03:46.379 --> 00:03:48.719 It seems perfect for someone who focuses so much 00:03:48.719 --> 00:03:50.500 on character, right? It really is. The academic 00:03:50.500 --> 00:03:52.840 side gives you the understanding of story theme. 00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:55.520 Drawing on those literary traditions, Faulkner, 00:03:55.560 --> 00:03:57.599 Wolf, we can get into that later. But then the 00:03:57.599 --> 00:03:59.240 Strasberg training, that's all about internal 00:03:59.240 --> 00:04:01.699 emotional truth. He gets performance from the 00:04:01.699 --> 00:04:04.340 inside out, which is probably why actors give 00:04:04.340 --> 00:04:07.180 such raw, honest performances for him. And he 00:04:07.180 --> 00:04:09.810 didn't just train, he actually worked. Me. A 00:04:09.810 --> 00:04:12.830 full decade. Right. 98 to 2009. Just as an actor. 00:04:12.930 --> 00:04:16.350 A full decade. Yeah. Film and TV. That was his 00:04:16.350 --> 00:04:18.670 apprenticeship, really. Getting paid to learn 00:04:18.670 --> 00:04:21.910 how sets work, the rhythm of collaboration, seeing 00:04:21.910 --> 00:04:24.779 how different directors operate. what works what 00:04:24.779 --> 00:04:26.480 doesn't think about that practical education 00:04:26.480 --> 00:04:30.060 yeah you're learning set politics how lighting 00:04:30.060 --> 00:04:32.500 affects a performance just the sheer logistics 00:04:32.500 --> 00:04:35.680 of it all exactly and those early roles they 00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:38.360 were solid you know working actor parts often 00:04:38.360 --> 00:04:40.600 in period pieces or small roles where he just 00:04:40.600 --> 00:04:42.519 had to kind of disappear into a type yeah looking 00:04:42.519 --> 00:04:44.560 back he pops up in some surprising spots like 00:04:44.560 --> 00:04:47.040 he had a small part in austin powers the spy 00:04:47.040 --> 00:04:50.819 who shagged me No way. Yeah, 1999. Played the 00:04:50.819 --> 00:04:53.819 Klansman's son, Bobby. And then, more predictably 00:04:53.819 --> 00:04:56.199 maybe, L .T. Joseph Morrison in Gods and Generals. 00:04:56.220 --> 00:04:58.680 Yeah. That Civil War film from 2003. Fits with 00:04:58.680 --> 00:05:01.149 the Southern roots. Right. And TV, too. He did 00:05:01.149 --> 00:05:03.389 The Rounds, The X -Files, an episode called Rush 00:05:03.389 --> 00:05:07.189 in 99. Okay. And importantly, he was in the miniseries 00:05:07.189 --> 00:05:10.389 Broken Trail in 2006. Ah, yes. That's where the 00:05:10.389 --> 00:05:12.170 Robert Duvall connection starts, isn't it? That's 00:05:12.170 --> 00:05:14.829 the one. Star Duvall. And that friendship, that 00:05:14.829 --> 00:05:17.509 mentorship became absolutely key for what happened 00:05:17.509 --> 00:05:20.470 next. So all that experience, acting, academia, 00:05:20.910 --> 00:05:25.120 Virginia roots, it all leads up to 2009. And 00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:27.980 Crazy Heart. The pivotal year. And it wasn't 00:05:27.980 --> 00:05:30.620 just, oh, I'll direct now. He wrote it, directed 00:05:30.620 --> 00:05:33.939 it, produced it. Total creative control. With 00:05:33.939 --> 00:05:36.759 Jeff Bridges as Bad Blake, that washed up country 00:05:36.759 --> 00:05:40.060 singer. And the impact was just seismic. Immediate. 00:05:40.060 --> 00:05:42.180 Crazy Heart wasn't just good. It felt instantly 00:05:42.180 --> 00:05:45.139 like a classic, a modern neo -western character 00:05:45.139 --> 00:05:48.000 study. Exactly the kind of film he admired. Huge 00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:50.339 critical acclaim, obviously. But the industry 00:05:50.339 --> 00:05:53.459 recognition. That was the game changer. Absolutely. 00:05:53.779 --> 00:05:55.959 Bridges wins best actor at the Oscars. The film 00:05:55.959 --> 00:05:58.120 wins best original song, too. That cemented it. 00:05:58.160 --> 00:06:00.480 And suddenly Hollywood's paying attention, like 00:06:00.480 --> 00:06:02.540 really paying attention. The quality just screamed, 00:06:02.660 --> 00:06:05.560 real deal. Oh, yeah. People like Ridley Scott, 00:06:05.819 --> 00:06:08.779 the director and producer Michael Costigan, they're 00:06:08.779 --> 00:06:11.300 watching. Executives from Leonardo DiCaprio's 00:06:11.300 --> 00:06:14.579 company, Appian Way, they're all noticing. The 00:06:14.579 --> 00:06:17.800 message was clear. This guy Cooper. He understands 00:06:17.800 --> 00:06:21.019 authentic American sorrow, character driven stuff, 00:06:21.259 --> 00:06:24.600 and he can pull Oscar level performances out 00:06:24.600 --> 00:06:27.779 of actors. And that debut success, it kind of 00:06:27.779 --> 00:06:30.319 lays out his whole artistic thesis, doesn't it? 00:06:30.379 --> 00:06:32.920 If you commit fully to the psychological truth 00:06:32.920 --> 00:06:35.879 of a character, wrap them in this meticulously 00:06:35.879 --> 00:06:39.339 crafted atmosphere, the audience and the industry, 00:06:39.519 --> 00:06:41.939 they'll respond. Yeah, it showed he wasn't just 00:06:41.939 --> 00:06:43.860 an actor trying something new. He was a fully 00:06:43.860 --> 00:06:48.120 formed auteur. With a distinct voice, which explains 00:06:48.120 --> 00:06:50.120 how he could jump to these much bigger projects 00:06:50.120 --> 00:06:52.360 almost right away. Right. So that attention you 00:06:52.360 --> 00:06:54.220 mentioned, Scott Costigan DiCaprio, that directly 00:06:54.220 --> 00:06:56.139 led to his second film, didn't it? Out of the 00:06:56.139 --> 00:06:58.839 Furnace, 2013. Exactly. And this is where Cooper 00:06:58.839 --> 00:07:01.519 really starts to like codify his style. That 00:07:01.519 --> 00:07:04.319 focus on decaying America, moral landscapes, 00:07:04.639 --> 00:07:06.500 physical landscapes. And the backstory on that 00:07:06.500 --> 00:07:08.579 one is classic Hollywood. He gets offered this 00:07:08.579 --> 00:07:10.540 spec script originally called The Low Dweller. 00:07:10.639 --> 00:07:13.480 And get this. DiCaprio was initially attached 00:07:13.480 --> 00:07:16.339 to Star and Ridley Scott was supposed to direct. 00:07:16.660 --> 00:07:19.040 Wow. So Cooper steps into that. Yeah. Taking 00:07:19.040 --> 00:07:21.560 over directing, rewriting a script with those 00:07:21.560 --> 00:07:23.920 names already linked. Yeah. That's a huge vote 00:07:23.920 --> 00:07:26.579 of confidence. Massive. And what makes it really 00:07:26.579 --> 00:07:29.139 fascinating, what lifts it beyond just a standard 00:07:29.139 --> 00:07:32.079 thriller, is how Cooper poured his own history 00:07:32.079 --> 00:07:35.100 into it. He rewrote it, shared the credit with 00:07:35.100 --> 00:07:37.839 Brad Inglesby, sure, but he really transformed 00:07:37.839 --> 00:07:40.620 it, grounded it in his own emotional experience. 00:07:41.079 --> 00:07:43.600 How so? What did he draw on? Well, the setting, 00:07:43.660 --> 00:07:45.759 obviously. Pulled directly from the geography, 00:07:46.040 --> 00:07:48.120 the economic depression he saw growing up in 00:07:48.120 --> 00:07:50.920 Appalachia. Set it right in that industrial heartland. 00:07:51.180 --> 00:07:53.879 But deeper than that, apparently he drew on the 00:07:53.879 --> 00:07:56.060 experience of losing a sibling when he was young. 00:07:56.339 --> 00:07:59.740 And that loss, that grief, it totally anchors 00:07:59.740 --> 00:08:01.920 the relationship between the brothers in the 00:08:01.920 --> 00:08:04.459 film, Christian Bale and Casey Affleck. It turns 00:08:04.459 --> 00:08:06.959 the violence, the plot, into something much more 00:08:06.959 --> 00:08:10.329 visceral. It's about deep familial tragedy. Real 00:08:10.329 --> 00:08:12.689 grievance. So the Appalachian setting isn't just 00:08:12.689 --> 00:08:15.810 wallpaper. It's like a character itself. A moral 00:08:15.810 --> 00:08:19.350 force almost. A trap. Exactly. These characters 00:08:19.350 --> 00:08:21.790 are stuck, defined by the lack of opportunity, 00:08:22.050 --> 00:08:25.290 the crumbling steel town around them, that feeling 00:08:25.290 --> 00:08:26.930 of being forgotten by the rest of the country. 00:08:27.089 --> 00:08:29.670 That regional tragedy is the film. It really 00:08:29.670 --> 00:08:33.029 proves his focus on that literary idea of place. 00:08:33.429 --> 00:08:35.990 And that commitment to his vision, it clearly 00:08:35.990 --> 00:08:38.860 resonated. He attracted an even bigger cast than 00:08:38.860 --> 00:08:41.639 Crazy Heart. Oh, the cast is staggering. Relativity 00:08:41.639 --> 00:08:44.799 Media backed it. And look who signed on. Christian 00:08:44.799 --> 00:08:47.740 Bale, Woody Harrelson, Casey Affleck, Willem 00:08:47.740 --> 00:08:50.080 Dafoe, Forrest Whitaker, Sam Shepard. I mean, 00:08:50.100 --> 00:08:51.899 come on. That's incredible. And the fact that 00:08:51.899 --> 00:08:53.860 DiCaprio and Ridley Scott stayed on as producers, 00:08:54.100 --> 00:08:56.379 even after Cooper took over writing and directing, 00:08:56.539 --> 00:08:58.419 that just shows the respect he commanded for 00:08:58.419 --> 00:09:01.659 his particular vision. So, OK, he tackles Appalachian 00:09:01.659 --> 00:09:04.600 tragedy, neo -Western style. Then for his next 00:09:04.600 --> 00:09:07.970 move, he pivots hard. into real -life organized 00:09:07.970 --> 00:09:11.570 crime, Black Mass 2015. Yeah, a sharp turn. And 00:09:11.570 --> 00:09:13.669 another massive undertaking. This wasn't fiction. 00:09:13.769 --> 00:09:16.549 It was a deep dive into historical true crime, 00:09:16.750 --> 00:09:19.090 adapted from that book by Dick Lear and Gerard 00:09:19.090 --> 00:09:20.789 O 'Neill. Right, the investigative journalists. 00:09:21.509 --> 00:09:25.950 So Cooper's job was to rewrite and direct this 00:09:25.950 --> 00:09:30.220 incredibly complex, fact -based story. And the 00:09:30.220 --> 00:09:32.700 subject. I mean, it's explosive stuff. Whitey 00:09:32.700 --> 00:09:34.740 Bulger, his brother, Billy Bulger, the politician, 00:09:35.019 --> 00:09:37.919 the corrupt FBI agent John Connolly, the whole 00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:40.539 FBI witness protection mess created by Hoover. 00:09:40.639 --> 00:09:42.940 You need more than just dramatic flair for that. 00:09:43.019 --> 00:09:47.809 You need meticulous handling of this. really 00:09:47.809 --> 00:09:50.549 murky, corrupt period in Boston history. Totally. 00:09:50.669 --> 00:09:53.049 It's a whole tapestry of institutional failure, 00:09:53.129 --> 00:09:55.330 deep criminality. And it's worth remembering 00:09:55.330 --> 00:09:56.809 this story had been kicking around Hollywood 00:09:56.809 --> 00:09:59.210 for ages. Barry Levinson was attached at one 00:09:59.210 --> 00:10:01.129 point, others too. So Cooper was the one who 00:10:01.129 --> 00:10:03.360 finally got it made. Stabilized it. Seems like 00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:05.980 it. His ability to handle these huge real life 00:10:05.980 --> 00:10:08.539 figures, their tangled fates, showed a maturity, 00:10:08.539 --> 00:10:10.320 you know, beyond just having a couple of films 00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:12.440 under his belt. And again, the cast. He assembled 00:10:12.440 --> 00:10:14.620 another powerhouse group. Johnny Depp came back 00:10:14.620 --> 00:10:17.200 to the project, famously, to play Whitey Bulger, 00:10:17.279 --> 00:10:20.220 which was a huge get commercially. And Joel Edgerton 00:10:20.220 --> 00:10:24.080 as the bent FBI agent, Connolly. And then Benedict 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:27.379 Cumberbatch. Perfect casting, really, as Whitey's 00:10:27.379 --> 00:10:30.340 brother. the powerful state senator, Billy Bulger. 00:10:30.460 --> 00:10:32.740 Yeah, Cumberbatch is great at those complex intellectual 00:10:32.740 --> 00:10:35.700 types. Cooper just excels at putting together 00:10:35.700 --> 00:10:38.000 these high -level casts. The challenge isn't 00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:41.019 finding great actors. It's managing the intensity, 00:10:41.100 --> 00:10:43.200 the complexity of these real people they're playing. 00:10:43.399 --> 00:10:47.200 So that shift from the kind of poetic tragedy 00:10:47.200 --> 00:10:50.779 of Out of the Furnace to the big, sprawling, 00:10:50.779 --> 00:10:54.950 fact -based Black Mass. It proved he could handle 00:10:54.950 --> 00:10:57.909 huge historical narratives just as well as those 00:10:57.909 --> 00:11:00.250 intimate character pieces. Yeah. Showed his range. 00:11:00.370 --> 00:11:02.870 And, you know, just as a little side note, reflecting 00:11:02.870 --> 00:11:05.789 his standing then, by 2016, there were articles 00:11:05.789 --> 00:11:07.690 about him selling his house in Brentwood for 00:11:07.690 --> 00:11:11.070 like $3 .6 million. Wow. OK. It just speaks to 00:11:11.070 --> 00:11:12.830 how quickly he went from, you know, working actor 00:11:12.830 --> 00:11:15.549 to this really sought after director handling 00:11:15.549 --> 00:11:17.830 big budgets, big stars. OK. So we've tracked 00:11:17.830 --> 00:11:20.269 his roots, those first big successes in regional 00:11:20.269 --> 00:11:23.120 tragedy and then true crime. Let's talk about 00:11:23.120 --> 00:11:24.700 something foundational, something that kind of 00:11:24.700 --> 00:11:27.340 underpins his whole career rise. Robert Duvall, 00:11:27.460 --> 00:11:31.659 his mentor. Ah, yes. The Duvall connection. It's 00:11:31.659 --> 00:11:34.360 not just a side story. It's absolutely fundamental. 00:11:34.620 --> 00:11:37.940 A kind of artistic sounding board. Explains so 00:11:37.940 --> 00:11:40.259 much about Cooper's grounded character first 00:11:40.259 --> 00:11:42.500 approach. And it started way back, didn't it? 00:11:42.519 --> 00:11:45.549 When Cooper was still acting. Yeah. Back in 2003 00:11:45.549 --> 00:11:48.289 on the set of Gods and Generals. That sparked 00:11:48.289 --> 00:11:50.929 this deep, lasting friendship. And it went beyond 00:11:50.929 --> 00:11:52.769 just work friends, right? It's that great detail. 00:11:52.769 --> 00:11:55.889 Oh, yeah. Cooper got married on Duvall's estate 00:11:55.889 --> 00:11:59.029 in Virginia, his, what, 300 -acre farm? Yeah. 00:11:59.110 --> 00:12:01.970 That level of closeness, that suggests real trust. 00:12:02.409 --> 00:12:04.629 Duvall sees him not just as a colleague, but 00:12:04.629 --> 00:12:07.600 like family. And that trust fed directly into 00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:10.080 their work together. Duvall was crucial for Crazy 00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:12.279 Heart. He produced it and he was in it. Right. 00:12:12.379 --> 00:12:14.259 And even before that, they'd acted together in 00:12:14.259 --> 00:12:16.620 Broken Trail, that 2006 miniseries, and the film 00:12:16.620 --> 00:12:19.399 Get Low in 2009. And then years later, Duvall 00:12:19.399 --> 00:12:21.879 pops up again in Cooper's film The Pale Blue 00:12:21.879 --> 00:12:25.419 Eye. So having Duvall in his corner, that's an 00:12:25.419 --> 00:12:27.720 incredible resource. Duvall is, I mean, he's 00:12:27.720 --> 00:12:29.379 one of the greats of that American New Wave cinema, 00:12:29.539 --> 00:12:32.480 known for bringing this gritty, understated realism 00:12:32.480 --> 00:12:35.500 to everything. Exactly. So having him as a guide, 00:12:35.600 --> 00:12:39.259 a producer, often a cast member, it ensures Cooper's 00:12:39.259 --> 00:12:41.980 early directing choices stay grounded in authentic 00:12:41.980 --> 00:12:45.100 performance, in story integrity, resisting that 00:12:45.100 --> 00:12:48.559 urge for, you know, cheap sentimentality or Hollywood 00:12:48.559 --> 00:12:51.039 gloss. It feels like Cooper brings this sort 00:12:51.039 --> 00:12:53.759 of literary depth, the darker themes maybe. And 00:12:53.759 --> 00:12:56.860 Duvall brings that essential unvarnished truth 00:12:56.860 --> 00:12:59.399 in performance. Yeah. So with that foundation 00:12:59.399 --> 00:13:01.690 solid. Cooper then starts really pushing his 00:13:01.690 --> 00:13:04.289 own boundaries, shifting into totally new genres. 00:13:04.669 --> 00:13:07.919 Right. He tackles the Western next. with Hostiles 00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:11.360 in 2017. Wrote, directed, produced. Seems like 00:13:11.360 --> 00:13:13.399 a natural fit, maybe, given his interest in harsh 00:13:13.399 --> 00:13:15.940 American landscapes, the morality of violence. 00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:18.500 It does, but Hostiles isn't your typical heroic 00:13:18.500 --> 00:13:21.220 Western, is it? It's much more somber. Violent, 00:13:21.220 --> 00:13:22.980 yes, but really a deconstruction of the genre. 00:13:23.200 --> 00:13:25.980 Themes of trauma, guilt, that sort of forced 00:13:25.980 --> 00:13:28.139 coexistence on the frontier after the Civil War. 00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:29.860 The source material is interesting, too. It wasn't 00:13:29.860 --> 00:13:32.350 a new script. No, it was based on this decades 00:13:32.350 --> 00:13:34.909 old manuscript by a screenwriter named Donald 00:13:34.909 --> 00:13:37.809 E. Stewart, who had passed away, which suggests 00:13:37.809 --> 00:13:40.450 Cooper is actively digging for these powerful, 00:13:40.669 --> 00:13:43.009 maybe overlooked stories that resonate with his 00:13:43.009 --> 00:13:45.649 themes. And the casting brought back a key collaborator. 00:13:45.730 --> 00:13:48.009 Christian Bale again. Yeah. Alongside Rosamund 00:13:48.009 --> 00:13:50.509 Pike and premiering at Telluride, the film festival 00:13:50.509 --> 00:13:53.070 that really cemented that Cooper could take on 00:13:53.070 --> 00:13:55.789 a genre as iconic as the Western and infuse it 00:13:55.789 --> 00:13:58.450 with his own, you know, bleak literary feel. 00:13:58.690 --> 00:14:01.490 OK, but then came the real. big departure antlers 00:14:01.490 --> 00:14:06.309 2021 diving headfirst into supernatural horror 00:14:06.309 --> 00:14:09.129 that was the radical move for a director known 00:14:09.129 --> 00:14:12.129 mostly for these dark often fact -based dramas 00:14:12.129 --> 00:14:14.889 yeah yeah it showed real artistic restlessness 00:14:14.889 --> 00:14:17.330 it's a big risk and why antlers what was the 00:14:17.330 --> 00:14:19.490 thinking there well he wrote and directed it 00:14:19.490 --> 00:14:21.990 but significantly it was co -produced by guillermo 00:14:21.990 --> 00:14:24.970 del toro okay the master of monsters and genre 00:14:24.970 --> 00:14:28.190 complexity Exactly. Del Toro's name tells you 00:14:28.190 --> 00:14:30.190 this isn't just going to be jump scares. The 00:14:30.190 --> 00:14:32.570 challenge for Cooper was blending his signature 00:14:32.570 --> 00:14:36.070 social realism, the story set in this crumbling 00:14:36.070 --> 00:14:39.490 Oregon mining town, deals with poverty, addiction, 00:14:39.730 --> 00:14:42.169 environmental decay. All his usual themes. Right. 00:14:42.230 --> 00:14:44.429 Blending that with the mythological horror of 00:14:44.429 --> 00:14:47.250 the Wendigo. So that blend is the key then. Yeah. 00:14:47.389 --> 00:14:49.730 Antlers doesn't feel like a typical horror movie. 00:14:49.769 --> 00:14:52.539 It feels more like... Like an environmental tragedy 00:14:52.539 --> 00:14:54.860 where the monster is almost a symptom. Yeah, 00:14:54.919 --> 00:14:57.340 like a physical manifestation of the human desperation, 00:14:57.659 --> 00:15:00.539 the hopelessness of that dying town. And having 00:15:00.539 --> 00:15:02.659 actors like Keri Russell and Jesse Plemons, who 00:15:02.659 --> 00:15:05.299 he works with, again, they provide that grounded 00:15:05.299 --> 00:15:08.360 human core. It allows the horror to feel earned, 00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:11.360 tethered to reality. So it proves his loyalty 00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:13.879 isn't really to one genre, is it? It's to the 00:15:13.879 --> 00:15:17.059 intense atmosphere, the human cost of these destructive 00:15:17.059 --> 00:15:19.759 environments. Precisely. He's taking his established 00:15:19.759 --> 00:15:22.139 themes, loss, decay. decay, moral failure, and 00:15:22.139 --> 00:15:24.179 just filtering them through a supernatural lens. 00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:26.500 And then after that experiment, he circled back 00:15:26.500 --> 00:15:28.639 more recently with The Pale Blue Eye in 2022, 00:15:29.200 --> 00:15:32.139 period literary drama, mystery thriller set at 00:15:32.139 --> 00:15:35.539 West Point in the 1830s. Right. Script, direction, 00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:40.100 production, all Cooper. And as we said, Robert 00:15:40.100 --> 00:15:42.980 Duvall making an appearance again. It reinforces 00:15:42.980 --> 00:15:45.539 that reliance on his core creative family, even 00:15:45.539 --> 00:15:47.279 as the projects get bigger and more ambitious. 00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:50.360 So we followed the timeline. But let's try and 00:15:50.360 --> 00:15:53.080 synthesize a bit now. Let's talk about Cooper's 00:15:53.080 --> 00:15:57.440 artistic DNA. Because his films, they feel really 00:15:57.440 --> 00:16:00.379 dense, don't they? Rooted in something specific. 00:16:00.460 --> 00:16:02.440 They don't move like standard Hollywood pictures. 00:16:02.659 --> 00:16:04.379 No, they don't. And if you want to understand 00:16:04.379 --> 00:16:06.639 why, you have to look at his influences. Connect 00:16:06.639 --> 00:16:08.559 those regional themes to the bigger picture. 00:16:08.879 --> 00:16:11.759 His cinematic language, it's deeply shaped by 00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:14.259 literary figures, specifically Thomas Wolfe and 00:16:14.259 --> 00:16:16.279 William Faulkner. Okay, the giants of Southern 00:16:16.279 --> 00:16:19.139 literature. Known for focusing on history, trauma, 00:16:19.379 --> 00:16:22.440 dense atmosphere, complicated families tied to 00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:24.139 their region. Exactly. And you asked earlier 00:16:24.139 --> 00:16:26.179 how Faulkner's obsession with the past translates 00:16:26.179 --> 00:16:29.519 into, say, Black Mass. It translates into mood, 00:16:29.700 --> 00:16:33.100 into pacing. Cooper's films often feel heavy 00:16:33.100 --> 00:16:35.899 with history. He doesn't rush the plot. He'll 00:16:35.899 --> 00:16:38.080 linger on the texture of a room, the silence 00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:40.659 of a landscape, the weariness on an actor's face. 00:16:41.139 --> 00:16:43.279 Faulkner famously said, the past is never dead. 00:16:43.360 --> 00:16:46.500 It's not even past. Cooper applies that feeling 00:16:46.500 --> 00:16:49.259 to his settings. So in Appalachia, the decay 00:16:49.259 --> 00:16:52.600 isn't just set dressing. It's like a living consequence 00:16:52.600 --> 00:16:55.799 of history, a trap people inherit. Precisely. 00:16:55.799 --> 00:16:58.399 And that slow burn atmospheric style, it's also 00:16:58.399 --> 00:17:01.200 clearly linked to his film influences. He loves 00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:03.379 those American New Wave films from the 70s, the 00:17:03.379 --> 00:17:05.480 really intense character studies. You can see 00:17:05.480 --> 00:17:07.559 echoes of what, Robert Altman's Nashville, that 00:17:07.559 --> 00:17:10.099 sprawling observational feel. Definitely Nashville. 00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:12.819 Or the quiet violence, the tension in Terrence 00:17:12.819 --> 00:17:15.539 Malick's Badlands. He also mentions John Huston's 00:17:15.539 --> 00:17:18.420 Fat City, the boxing drama, and Peter Bogdanovich's 00:17:18.420 --> 00:17:21.259 The Last Picture Show. All films defined by like 00:17:21.259 --> 00:17:24.119 two things. Really authentic regional flavor. 00:17:24.200 --> 00:17:25.480 They feel like they have to be set where they 00:17:25.480 --> 00:17:27.880 are. And this kind of melancholy observational 00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:30.440 tone. Character realism over plot mechanics. 00:17:30.819 --> 00:17:33.940 Yeah. And what Cooper does so well is take that 00:17:33.940 --> 00:17:36.950 70s sensibility, that quiet. character -first 00:17:36.950 --> 00:17:40.289 drama where the environment itself is almost 00:17:40.289 --> 00:17:42.730 the antagonist and he applies it to modern stories 00:17:42.730 --> 00:17:46.150 or genre stories he builds the world first this 00:17:46.150 --> 00:17:49.349 fully realized often grim world saturates you 00:17:49.349 --> 00:17:51.950 in its specific decay then he places the human 00:17:51.950 --> 00:17:54.930 trauma inside it Which is why they feel so authentic, 00:17:54.990 --> 00:17:57.210 but also maybe emotionally draining sometimes. 00:17:57.509 --> 00:18:00.690 I think so, yeah. And he maintains that consistent 00:18:00.690 --> 00:18:04.109 vision partly by relying on this tight -knit 00:18:04.109 --> 00:18:07.049 group of collaborators, like a Scott Cooper repertory 00:18:07.049 --> 00:18:09.809 company. That network seems crucial for the kind 00:18:09.809 --> 00:18:12.109 of intense work he demands. It really does. And 00:18:12.109 --> 00:18:13.809 the most important relationship there, besides 00:18:13.809 --> 00:18:16.890 Duvall, has to be Christian Bale. Their synergy 00:18:16.890 --> 00:18:19.609 is just... undeniable. Yeah, Bale's known for 00:18:19.609 --> 00:18:21.910 that total immersion, physically, psychologically. 00:18:22.369 --> 00:18:24.349 Seems like a perfect match for Cooper's demand 00:18:24.349 --> 00:18:27.390 for raw emotional truth. He anchored two of Cooper's 00:18:27.390 --> 00:18:29.710 most intense films, didn't he? Out of the Furnace, 00:18:29.769 --> 00:18:32.769 Hostiles, and their commitment runs deep. And 00:18:32.769 --> 00:18:34.630 we're supposed to team up again for that unreleased 00:18:34.630 --> 00:18:37.210 project, Valhalla. Right, so when Cooper finds 00:18:37.210 --> 00:18:41.220 an actor who can really embody Those tormented, 00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:44.299 often morally gray male characters he writes, 00:18:44.420 --> 00:18:46.900 he sticks with them. Builds a partnership. And 00:18:46.900 --> 00:18:48.700 then there's Duvall, the elder statesman, like 00:18:48.700 --> 00:18:51.779 we discussed. Actor, producer, mentor across 00:18:51.779 --> 00:18:55.160 decades. But the company's wider than just the 00:18:55.160 --> 00:18:57.140 leads, isn't it? Yeah, he uses recurring supporting 00:18:57.140 --> 00:18:59.779 actors, too, to populate those dense worlds, 00:18:59.859 --> 00:19:02.599 give them credibility, familiarity. Actors like 00:19:02.599 --> 00:19:05.079 Rory Cochran or Jesse Plemons, they often play 00:19:05.079 --> 00:19:08.099 those essential, grounded supporting parts. Plemons 00:19:08.099 --> 00:19:10.599 was in Antlers, for instance. they bring this 00:19:10.599 --> 00:19:12.819 quiet gravity. And there's that interesting detail 00:19:12.819 --> 00:19:15.180 about his family. Oh, yeah. I think that's incredibly 00:19:15.180 --> 00:19:18.140 revealing. Listing his daughters, Ava and Stella 00:19:18.140 --> 00:19:21.380 Cooper, as collaborators in the credits, it signals 00:19:21.380 --> 00:19:24.279 this really intimate, supportive, creative space. 00:19:24.359 --> 00:19:26.819 Like, the film set is an extension of his own 00:19:26.819 --> 00:19:29.019 community. Just before we look ahead, it's worth 00:19:29.019 --> 00:19:30.980 mentioning those other projects he was attached 00:19:30.980 --> 00:19:33.529 to, even if they haven't happened yet. Shows 00:19:33.529 --> 00:19:36.650 his taste. Right. Back in 2019, besides Valhalla 00:19:36.650 --> 00:19:39.049 with Bale, he was also planning to adapt Jess 00:19:39.049 --> 00:19:41.829 Walter's novel Over Tumbled Graves. So these 00:19:41.829 --> 00:19:45.049 unmade projects just confirm that ongoing attraction 00:19:45.049 --> 00:19:48.210 to dense, complex stories about loss, social 00:19:48.210 --> 00:19:50.049 breakdown. And we should definitely circle back 00:19:50.049 --> 00:19:52.589 quickly to the recognition he got right after 00:19:52.589 --> 00:19:54.910 Crazy Heart. Because it wasn't just Bridges winning 00:19:54.910 --> 00:19:57.829 awards. Cooper himself was immediately seen as 00:19:57.829 --> 00:20:00.289 a writer -director. Instantly validated. He got 00:20:00.289 --> 00:20:09.640 key nominations straight out of the gate. So 00:20:09.640 --> 00:20:12.599 the industry saw him immediately as a serious 00:20:12.599 --> 00:20:15.200 writer to watch. Yeah. It's just fascinating, 00:20:15.319 --> 00:20:17.559 isn't it? A director known for intense violence, 00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:20.660 bleakness, like in Black Mass or Hostiles, but 00:20:20.660 --> 00:20:23.900 who also has these deep academic literary roots, 00:20:24.059 --> 00:20:26.920 that tension, intellectual foundation, visceral 00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:29.299 violence. That's what makes his work so potent. 00:20:29.950 --> 00:20:32.450 So unsettling. OK, so all this history we've 00:20:32.450 --> 00:20:34.450 talked about, the Virginia roots, the Duvall 00:20:34.450 --> 00:20:37.349 mentorship, that obsession with Americana, authenticity, 00:20:37.789 --> 00:20:40.029 leaked stories. It feels like it's all converging 00:20:40.029 --> 00:20:42.309 now, synthesizing in this next big project he's 00:20:42.309 --> 00:20:44.670 announced, the one about Bruce Springsteen. Yeah, 00:20:44.690 --> 00:20:47.009 this feels huge. Scheduled for 2025 currently. 00:20:47.589 --> 00:20:51.809 A massive undertaking, but thematically. It seems 00:20:51.809 --> 00:20:53.390 like a perfect fit for Cooper, doesn't it? It 00:20:53.390 --> 00:20:55.549 really does. The subject is specifically the 00:20:55.549 --> 00:20:58.210 making of Springsteen's 1982 album Nebraska, 00:20:58.710 --> 00:21:02.509 which was this intensely personal, almost monastic 00:21:02.509 --> 00:21:04.990 process. And Nebraska the album. I mean, it is 00:21:04.990 --> 00:21:07.269 Cooper's aesthetic and musical form, right? Absolutely. 00:21:07.329 --> 00:21:10.210 It's Springsteen's darkest work, most acoustic, 00:21:10.430 --> 00:21:13.410 arguably his darkest. Just a collection of these. 00:21:13.769 --> 00:21:16.950 desolate, character -driven short stories. Killers, 00:21:16.950 --> 00:21:19.430 drifters, desperate people trapped in that dying 00:21:19.430 --> 00:21:22.029 American landscape. It's like a musical companion 00:21:22.029 --> 00:21:24.750 piece to Out of the Furnace or Hostiles. The 00:21:24.750 --> 00:21:26.750 film's called Springsteen. Deliver me from nowhere. 00:21:27.289 --> 00:21:30.210 based on that 2023 book by Warren Zanes. Right, 00:21:30.309 --> 00:21:32.650 and the book dives deep into that specific period. 00:21:33.269 --> 00:21:35.210 Springsteen, after the massive success of The 00:21:35.210 --> 00:21:38.250 River, just retreats, records these devastating, 00:21:38.430 --> 00:21:41.190 lonely songs, mostly by himself, on a little 00:21:41.190 --> 00:21:43.029 four -track recorder in his farmhouse in New 00:21:43.029 --> 00:21:45.269 Jersey. Just incredible. And the team Cooper's 00:21:45.269 --> 00:21:48.230 assembling reflects his standing now. Oh, totally 00:21:48.230 --> 00:21:51.329 top tier. He's doing the triple duty again, writing, 00:21:51.609 --> 00:21:55.069 directing, producing, and the casting for Springsteen 00:21:55.069 --> 00:21:58.220 himself. that got a lot of attention jeremy ellen 00:21:58.220 --> 00:22:01.079 white jeremy ellen white which given white's 00:22:01.079 --> 00:22:04.500 recent work those intense focused roles showing 00:22:04.500 --> 00:22:06.940 deep internal struggle yeah like in the bear 00:22:07.369 --> 00:22:10.009 Exactly. It feels like genius casting for Cooper's 00:22:10.009 --> 00:22:12.650 style. He doesn't need White to be the stadium 00:22:12.650 --> 00:22:15.250 rock god. He needs him to be the solitary artist 00:22:15.250 --> 00:22:18.390 wrestling with creativity, with demons. White 00:22:18.390 --> 00:22:21.069 brings that grounded psychological realism Cooper 00:22:21.069 --> 00:22:23.390 loves. And behind the scenes, big names are involved, 00:22:23.569 --> 00:22:26.750 too. Major players lining up. Scott Stuber, former 00:22:26.750 --> 00:22:29.529 Netflix Films boss he's producing, along with 00:22:29.529 --> 00:22:32.349 Ellen Goldsmith -Vein and Eric Robinson. Stuber's 00:22:32.349 --> 00:22:34.630 involvement especially signals high expectations, 00:22:35.029 --> 00:22:37.259 commercially and critically. But the absolute 00:22:37.259 --> 00:22:39.299 key, the thing that guarantees authenticity, 00:22:39.700 --> 00:22:42.700 unparalleled access, is the man himself, Bruce 00:22:42.700 --> 00:22:45.759 Springsteen, and his longtime manager, John Lando. 00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:48.119 They're going to be intimately involved in making 00:22:48.119 --> 00:22:50.619 the film. That's huge. That level of cooperation 00:22:50.619 --> 00:22:52.779 is pretty rare for films about living legends, 00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:55.769 isn't it? Very rare. It's not just about getting 00:22:55.769 --> 00:22:58.390 the music rights. It's creative validation. It's 00:22:58.390 --> 00:23:01.829 access to maybe personal history, maybe even 00:23:01.829 --> 00:23:04.150 unreleased demos or notes from that specific 00:23:04.150 --> 00:23:06.910 time. It means they have the full blessing of 00:23:06.910 --> 00:23:10.470 the boss to explore his deepest, most desolate 00:23:10.470 --> 00:23:12.690 artistic moment. There's a little bit of industry 00:23:12.690 --> 00:23:14.430 back and forth about who was making it. Yeah. 00:23:14.470 --> 00:23:17.369 Quick note on that. Initially, reports said A24 00:23:17.369 --> 00:23:19.890 would produce it, you know, known for auteur 00:23:19.890 --> 00:23:22.210 driven art house stuff. Right. But ultimately, 00:23:22.450 --> 00:23:25.039 20th Century Studios. acquired it. That shift 00:23:25.039 --> 00:23:28.180 from A24 to a major studio like 20th Century, 00:23:28.380 --> 00:23:30.740 it highlights the film's perceived potential. 00:23:31.259 --> 00:23:33.700 The studio clearly thinks Cooper can deliver 00:23:33.700 --> 00:23:36.359 both an intense character study and a major box 00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:38.740 office draw. It really does feel like the project 00:23:38.740 --> 00:23:40.559 Cooper's whole career has been building towards. 00:23:40.759 --> 00:23:43.099 It does. After examining the dark side of the 00:23:43.099 --> 00:23:45.299 American dream through Appalachia, the West, 00:23:45.539 --> 00:23:48.759 Boston crime, now he's applying that same forensic 00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:52.099 eye to the myth of the American rock icon. Focusing 00:23:52.099 --> 00:23:54.079 on that moment, Springsteen channeled all his 00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:56.359 private angst into this universally recognized 00:23:56.359 --> 00:23:59.960 masterpiece of desolation. Hashtag outro, I troll. 00:24:00.059 --> 00:24:03.599 So just to kind of wrap up Scott Cooper's evolution 00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:06.420 here, it's been a remarkable transformation, 00:24:06.460 --> 00:24:09.109 hasn't it? Spent that decade learning the ropes 00:24:09.109 --> 00:24:11.150 as an actor. Yeah, the practical craft. That 00:24:11.150 --> 00:24:13.190 leveraged his background, his intellect, his 00:24:13.190 --> 00:24:16.490 roots to become this auteur director defined 00:24:16.490 --> 00:24:18.630 by grounding characters, criminals, musicians, 00:24:18.910 --> 00:24:22.829 soldiers in these harsh, authentic American places, 00:24:23.009 --> 00:24:26.549 drawing on literature, on 70s cinema. And his 00:24:26.549 --> 00:24:29.309 commitment to those intense character -driven 00:24:29.309 --> 00:24:32.299 stories. It's unwavering. He pulls it off through 00:24:32.299 --> 00:24:34.200 his vision, sure, but also through that core 00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:36.579 group of collaborators, the synergy with Bale, 00:24:36.759 --> 00:24:39.400 the mentorship from Duval. Right. He consistently 00:24:39.400 --> 00:24:42.319 finds and illuminates the tragedy, the decay 00:24:42.319 --> 00:24:45.059 in whatever setting he chooses. That structural 00:24:45.059 --> 00:24:47.220 integrity, that's his signature. Whether it's 00:24:47.220 --> 00:24:49.960 a Western, a horror film, a crime drama, he approaches 00:24:49.960 --> 00:24:52.220 it with the same literary seriousness, always 00:24:52.220 --> 00:24:54.980 digging for the moral cost, the human cost of 00:24:54.980 --> 00:24:57.480 the American experience. OK, so that leads us 00:24:57.480 --> 00:24:59.140 to our final thought. The provocative question 00:24:59.140 --> 00:25:01.480 we want to leave. you, the listener, with. Cooper's 00:25:01.480 --> 00:25:04.299 work consistently, almost obsessively, focuses 00:25:04.299 --> 00:25:07.059 on the dark heart of America, the violence, poverty, 00:25:07.220 --> 00:25:11.019 betrayal. So with this next project, zooming 00:25:11.019 --> 00:25:13.359 in on the stark genius of Springsteen's Nebraska, 00:25:13.740 --> 00:25:17.299 how will he apply those signature themes, loss, 00:25:17.599 --> 00:25:20.220 moral failure, that crushing regional identity 00:25:20.220 --> 00:25:23.799 to the story of a rock icon exploring his most 00:25:23.799 --> 00:25:27.099 desolate artistic landscape? And maybe more pointedly. 00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:29.960 Will having Springsteen himself involve Temper 00:25:29.960 --> 00:25:32.240 Cooper's commitment to brutality and authenticity, 00:25:32.440 --> 00:25:34.759 or will it actually embolden it? Given Cooper's 00:25:34.759 --> 00:25:37.059 track record of unflinching intensity, well, 00:25:37.220 --> 00:25:39.500 we expect him to find the bleak poetry in the 00:25:39.500 --> 00:25:41.819 boss's masterpiece. Yeah, me too. Okay, that's 00:25:41.819 --> 00:25:43.779 it for this deep dive. Thank you for joining 00:25:43.779 --> 00:25:46.900 us as we explored the impressive and, yeah, often 00:25:46.900 --> 00:25:48.839 harrowing career of Scott Cooper. We'll see you 00:25:48.839 --> 00:25:49.140 next time.