WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.780 Welcome to the Deep Dive. We dig through the 00:00:01.780 --> 00:00:04.160 sources, pull out what matters, and basically 00:00:04.160 --> 00:00:06.099 give you the inside track so you're totally up 00:00:06.099 --> 00:00:09.359 to speed. Yep, that's the plan. Today, we're 00:00:09.359 --> 00:00:12.039 zooming in on someone with just incredible range. 00:00:12.259 --> 00:00:18.399 An actor, a singer, Mandy... Right. And our mission 00:00:18.399 --> 00:00:20.940 today really is to look beyond those characters 00:00:20.940 --> 00:00:23.899 we all know, you know, like Inigo Montoya, Saul 00:00:23.899 --> 00:00:27.120 Berenson, Che from Evita. We want to get at the 00:00:27.120 --> 00:00:30.260 foundations. What makes him tick? What are those 00:00:30.260 --> 00:00:32.420 core beliefs? Because there's this pattern, isn't 00:00:32.420 --> 00:00:34.820 there? The thing where he walks away from huge 00:00:34.820 --> 00:00:38.380 success, like massive, undeniable hits. Exactly. 00:00:38.380 --> 00:00:40.880 For principles, for something deeper, these ethical 00:00:40.880 --> 00:00:43.299 lines he just won't cross. That's what's so fascinating. 00:00:43.340 --> 00:00:44.960 When you first look at his career, it's just, 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:47.490 wow. The contrast is amazing. You've got this 00:00:47.490 --> 00:00:50.289 Tony -winning Broadway voice, you know, working 00:00:50.289 --> 00:00:52.750 with legends like Sondheim and Weber. A giant 00:00:52.750 --> 00:00:55.229 musical theater. And then, bam, he's this cult 00:00:55.229 --> 00:00:58.630 movie icon because of the Princess Pride. Inigo 00:00:58.630 --> 00:01:01.770 Montoya. Unforgettable. And then he shifts again, 00:01:01.929 --> 00:01:04.629 a third act almost. He becomes this incredibly 00:01:04.629 --> 00:01:09.650 serious, dramatic anchor on TV. It's all Berenson 00:01:09.650 --> 00:01:11.870 in Homeland. Yeah, the moral compass of the show, 00:01:11.989 --> 00:01:14.109 kind of. It's so rare, isn't it, to successfully 00:01:14.109 --> 00:01:17.209 conquer all three of those worlds? Big Broadway 00:01:17.209 --> 00:01:20.670 musicals, iconic film roles, and that complex, 00:01:20.730 --> 00:01:24.390 long -form prestige TV drama. Very few people 00:01:24.390 --> 00:01:27.129 manage that. Absolutely. And what makes Patinkin 00:01:27.129 --> 00:01:29.250 so compelling... It's not just that he did it, 00:01:29.269 --> 00:01:32.090 but how. The choices he made. Yeah. Especially 00:01:32.090 --> 00:01:34.629 leaving those two massive TV shows. That's what 00:01:34.629 --> 00:01:36.329 we really need to unpack. Those moments, those 00:01:36.329 --> 00:01:38.810 exits, they tell you so much about his integrity. 00:01:38.829 --> 00:01:40.950 You have to understand the origins, the ethical 00:01:40.950 --> 00:01:43.709 thinking to really get Patinkin. Okay, so let's 00:01:43.709 --> 00:01:45.519 start at the beginning. The foundations. Right. 00:01:45.599 --> 00:01:48.319 So it all starts in Chicago. He was born Mandel 00:01:48.319 --> 00:01:51.599 Bruce Patinkin, November 30th, 1952. And the 00:01:51.599 --> 00:01:53.219 sources, they make it really clear his background 00:01:53.219 --> 00:01:55.700 wasn't just, you know, a detail. It was everything. 00:01:55.840 --> 00:01:58.140 The spiritual, the cultural bedrock for what 00:01:58.140 --> 00:01:59.719 came later. Grew up in an upper middle class 00:01:59.719 --> 00:02:02.260 family, descendants of Polish Jewish immigrants 00:02:02.260 --> 00:02:05.359 and raised conservative Jewish. Seems really 00:02:05.359 --> 00:02:07.859 central. Oh, completely central. I wasn't casual. 00:02:07.939 --> 00:02:10.719 We're talking intense immersion. Yeah, the details 00:02:10.719 --> 00:02:12.740 are pretty striking. Attending religious school 00:02:12.740 --> 00:02:16.879 daily. From age 7 to, what, 13 or 14? Daily. 00:02:16.960 --> 00:02:19.979 Plus singing in synagogue choirs. Think about 00:02:19.979 --> 00:02:22.800 that deep, everyday connection to the culture, 00:02:22.919 --> 00:02:26.919 the prayers, the liturgy, and the music. Absolutely 00:02:26.919 --> 00:02:29.000 crucial. You can totally see how that feeds into 00:02:29.000 --> 00:02:31.699 his later concert career, right? Yeah. And dedicating 00:02:31.699 --> 00:02:35.000 that whole album, Mama Lotion, to Yiddish songs. 00:02:35.180 --> 00:02:37.900 It wasn't just, like, a whim. Not at all. It 00:02:37.900 --> 00:02:41.990 feels earned, authentic. necessary even. It comes 00:02:41.990 --> 00:02:43.949 directly from that upbringing. And the family 00:02:43.949 --> 00:02:46.710 context itself is interesting. His dad, Lester 00:02:46.710 --> 00:02:49.409 Don Patinkin, ran two big metal factories. Yeah. 00:02:49.490 --> 00:02:51.610 People's Iron and Metal, Scrap Corporation of 00:02:51.610 --> 00:02:53.270 America. So there's this industrial business 00:02:53.270 --> 00:02:56.750 side, hard work, rigor. But then his mom, Doralee 00:02:56.750 --> 00:02:59.110 Patinkin, she wrote Grandma Doralee Patinkin's 00:02:59.110 --> 00:03:01.229 Jewish Family Cookbook, preserving the culture, 00:03:01.289 --> 00:03:04.039 the traditions. Exactly. It's that duality again. 00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:06.280 Practical drive from his father, cultural depth, 00:03:06.520 --> 00:03:09.879 and artistic sensibility from his mother. It's 00:03:09.879 --> 00:03:11.960 a really potent mix. You can kind of see how 00:03:11.960 --> 00:03:13.900 that might shape someone with his later professional 00:03:13.900 --> 00:03:15.879 discipline. There's also a really significant 00:03:15.879 --> 00:03:19.699 tragedy in this period. His father's death. Yes, 00:03:19.780 --> 00:03:22.479 that's huge. Lester died from pancreatic cancer 00:03:22.479 --> 00:03:27.139 in 1972. Mandy was only, what, 19 or 20? Devastating. 00:03:27.219 --> 00:03:30.000 And the sources suggest this wasn't just personal 00:03:30.000 --> 00:03:32.520 grief. It fundamentally shifted his outlook. 00:03:32.780 --> 00:03:35.740 You can imagine losing a parent that young. It 00:03:35.740 --> 00:03:39.099 often instills this sense of urgency. Like life 00:03:39.099 --> 00:03:41.120 is short. You have to live authentically now. 00:03:41.539 --> 00:03:43.780 Make the time count. And you see that urgency 00:03:43.780 --> 00:03:46.520 later, right? When he leaves Chicago, hopes specifically 00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:48.659 to be with his own family. It feels connected. 00:03:48.800 --> 00:03:50.939 Like he learned early on about the value of that 00:03:50.939 --> 00:03:53.060 time. Absolutely. It seems like maybe that was 00:03:53.060 --> 00:03:55.520 the first big event that really wired him to 00:03:55.520 --> 00:03:59.580 value integrity, family over just career success 00:03:59.580 --> 00:04:02.639 or money. So, OK, he has this drive, this background. 00:04:02.960 --> 00:04:05.400 And then comes the formal training. South Shore 00:04:05.400 --> 00:04:08.360 High School, Kenwood Academy, graduated in 1970, 00:04:08.680 --> 00:04:10.740 a bit of time at the University of Kansas. And 00:04:10.740 --> 00:04:14.139 then the big one, Juilliard, the drama division, 00:04:14.300 --> 00:04:17.800 Group 5. He was there from 72 to 76. Right. That's 00:04:17.800 --> 00:04:21.139 where the raw talent and that emotional urgency 00:04:21.139 --> 00:04:23.920 meet serious, hardcore discipline. Oh, yeah. 00:04:24.560 --> 00:04:26.959 Juilliard's reputation. It's not just a school. 00:04:27.019 --> 00:04:30.199 It's a crucible, right? Forging stage performers. 00:04:30.399 --> 00:04:33.120 That voice, that physical command he had on Broadway. 00:04:33.610 --> 00:04:35.509 That's honed there. And there's that great little 00:04:35.509 --> 00:04:38.569 tidbit about his class at Juilliard, group five, 00:04:38.670 --> 00:04:41.550 one of his classmates. Kelsey Grammer. Yes, which 00:04:41.550 --> 00:04:44.290 is just amazing on its own. But the story gets 00:04:44.290 --> 00:04:46.829 better. It does, because when the producers of 00:04:46.829 --> 00:04:49.290 Cheers were looking for someone to play Dr. Frasier 00:04:49.290 --> 00:04:51.649 Crane. Pet Hinken recommended Grammer. He put 00:04:51.649 --> 00:04:54.199 his name forward. Think about that. But Tinkin, 00:04:54.339 --> 00:04:57.199 already making his way, helps a classmate land 00:04:57.199 --> 00:04:59.699 a role that becomes, I mean, Frasier Crane, one 00:04:59.699 --> 00:05:02.480 of the most iconic TV characters ever. It's wild. 00:05:02.560 --> 00:05:03.920 It tells you something about him, doesn't it? 00:05:03.980 --> 00:05:08.579 Not ruthlessly competitive, maybe? Valuing talent, 00:05:08.860 --> 00:05:12.319 connection, generosity. Yeah, maybe something 00:05:12.319 --> 00:05:15.319 fostered in that intense, close -knit Juilliard 00:05:15.319 --> 00:05:17.439 environment. But whatever the reason, it's a 00:05:17.439 --> 00:05:20.800 fascinating what -if. That... Little suggestion 00:05:20.800 --> 00:05:24.800 had a massive impact on TV history. So, OK, he's 00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:27.079 got the background, the drive, the world class 00:05:27.079 --> 00:05:29.519 training, even this generous spirit. He hits 00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:32.879 the New York stage and he's ready. Totally ready. 00:05:33.000 --> 00:05:35.279 And he makes an impact pretty quickly. Mid 70s. 00:05:35.279 --> 00:05:37.399 He's on the New York stage. Yeah. And his debut 00:05:37.399 --> 00:05:40.949 in 75. It's alongside Meryl Streep and John Lithgow. 00:05:41.050 --> 00:05:42.949 Right, and Trelawney of the Wells. Already an 00:05:42.949 --> 00:05:44.709 incredible company. Tells you something about 00:05:44.709 --> 00:05:46.970 his caliber right out of the gate. But the real 00:05:46.970 --> 00:05:49.149 explosion, the role that puts him on the map 00:05:49.149 --> 00:05:53.370 in a huge way, that's Evita, 1979. Andrew Lloyd 00:05:53.370 --> 00:05:55.829 Webber and Tim Rice's show. He's playing Chi, 00:05:56.110 --> 00:05:58.870 the narrator, opposite Patti LuPone as Eva Peron. 00:05:59.009 --> 00:06:01.430 And Chi, I mean, what a role. He's the commentator, 00:06:01.430 --> 00:06:05.269 the critic, kind of cynical revolutionary. Watches 00:06:05.269 --> 00:06:07.629 her whole rise. It's a massive part, vocally, 00:06:07.649 --> 00:06:10.050 intellectually. Requires incredible energy, and 00:06:10.050 --> 00:06:12.350 it just launched him. Critics loved him. He won 00:06:12.350 --> 00:06:14.810 the Tony Award for Best Featured Actor in a musical. 00:06:15.029 --> 00:06:16.850 What did the reviews say? Walter Kerr at the 00:06:16.850 --> 00:06:19.149 New York Times called him vigorous. James Lardner, 00:06:19.329 --> 00:06:21.850 Washington Post, said he gave a sympathetic, 00:06:22.189 --> 00:06:25.250 consistent, and rather sweet performance. Which 00:06:25.250 --> 00:06:27.649 is interesting for Che, right? Show he brought 00:06:27.649 --> 00:06:30.529 humanity to this potentially harsh role. So Evita 00:06:30.529 --> 00:06:34.220 makes him a star. A Broadway force. Voice, intelligence, 00:06:34.420 --> 00:06:37.079 the whole package. Definitely. But then comes 00:06:37.079 --> 00:06:40.079 his work with Stephen Sondheim, and that arguably 00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:43.160 cements his legacy in a different way, as this 00:06:43.160 --> 00:06:46.740 titan of intellectual musical theater. This is 00:06:46.740 --> 00:06:48.259 deeper than just performance, you're saying. 00:06:48.399 --> 00:06:51.019 Yeah, it feels like it's about embodying the 00:06:51.019 --> 00:06:53.459 whole artistic philosophy of Sondheim himself. 00:06:53.600 --> 00:06:55.560 We're talking Sunday in the Park with George. 00:06:55.759 --> 00:06:59.259 Yeah. 1984. Right. playing the dual roles. George 00:06:59.259 --> 00:07:01.620 is Surratt, the pointillist painter in Act 1, 00:07:01.720 --> 00:07:03.680 and then his fictional great -grandson George 00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:06.399 in Act 2, opposite Bernadette Peters. It's a 00:07:06.399 --> 00:07:08.920 musical about art, about creation, about dedication. 00:07:09.379 --> 00:07:11.800 He got a Tony nomination for Best Actor for that 00:07:11.800 --> 00:07:14.600 one. But there was this really insightful, critical 00:07:14.600 --> 00:07:17.600 take on it. Frank Rich, New York Times. Yeah. 00:07:17.959 --> 00:07:21.199 This was a key piece of analysis. Rich basically 00:07:21.199 --> 00:07:24.800 argued that Patinkin's Seurat, that intense focus, 00:07:24.920 --> 00:07:27.740 the command, the almost scientific way he builds 00:07:27.740 --> 00:07:30.139 the painting point by point. It was like a stand 00:07:30.139 --> 00:07:33.079 in for Sondheim himself. Exactly. For Sondheim's 00:07:33.079 --> 00:07:36.199 own fierce, methodical, intellectual precision 00:07:36.199 --> 00:07:39.680 in how he wrote music and lyrics. So Patinkin 00:07:39.680 --> 00:07:42.660 wasn't just playing an artist. He was embodying 00:07:42.660 --> 00:07:45.420 the composer's spirit, the rigor, the structure, 00:07:45.620 --> 00:07:47.939 the focus. That's fascinating. And you can see 00:07:47.939 --> 00:07:50.920 that thread, right? That ability to portray intense, 00:07:51.100 --> 00:07:54.100 methodical thinking. It connects to Saul Berenson 00:07:54.100 --> 00:07:56.060 later on, doesn't it? Absolutely. It shows an 00:07:56.060 --> 00:07:58.120 actor who really gets inside the intellectual 00:07:58.120 --> 00:08:00.160 weight of a character, not just the emotion. 00:08:00.459 --> 00:08:03.079 And thankfully, we can actually see this performance. 00:08:03.100 --> 00:08:06.220 Yes. He left the show for a bit in 84, but came 00:08:06.220 --> 00:08:08.839 back in 85 and they filmed it for American Playhouse. 00:08:09.560 --> 00:08:12.420 Which is huge. Otherwise, that specific performance, 00:08:12.600 --> 00:08:14.420 that definitive take on Surratt might have been 00:08:14.420 --> 00:08:16.819 lost. It's a crucial piece of theater history. 00:08:17.040 --> 00:08:18.519 He didn't stop there on Broadway, of course. 00:08:18.600 --> 00:08:21.360 He was Lord Archibald Craven in The Secret Garden 00:08:21.360 --> 00:08:24.480 in 91. And he replaced the original lead, Michael 00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:28.060 Rupert, as Marvin in Falsettos in 93. Another 00:08:28.060 --> 00:08:31.639 complex, demanding role. And even later, in 2000, 00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:35.399 he's back, starring as Burrs in Michael John 00:08:35.399 --> 00:08:38.110 Lacuse's The Wild Party. got his second Best 00:08:38.110 --> 00:08:41.190 Actor Tony nomination for that. So yeah, two 00:08:41.190 --> 00:08:43.750 decades after Evita, still at the absolute top 00:08:43.750 --> 00:08:45.610 of his game on Broadway. And we have to mention 00:08:45.610 --> 00:08:48.669 the concert career, because that feels so connected 00:08:48.669 --> 00:08:51.320 to his roots, the synagogue singing. Totally. 00:08:51.500 --> 00:08:54.360 The solo albums like Mandy Patinkin in concert, 00:08:54.580 --> 00:08:57.659 Dress Casual, and especially Mama Lotion, the 00:08:57.659 --> 00:08:59.460 Yiddish album we mentioned. That wasn't just 00:08:59.460 --> 00:09:01.139 singing old songs, right? There was more to it. 00:09:01.220 --> 00:09:03.279 Oh, much more. It was an act of cultural preservation. 00:09:03.460 --> 00:09:04.960 We'll probably touch on that again later, but 00:09:04.960 --> 00:09:06.960 it's fundamental to understanding him. Plus, 00:09:07.019 --> 00:09:09.139 he reunited with Patti LuPone for that concert 00:09:09.139 --> 00:09:12.220 series in 2011. An evening with Patti LuPone 00:09:12.220 --> 00:09:14.860 and Mandy Patinkin. Sold out run. Yeah, even 00:09:14.860 --> 00:09:17.200 outside of a traditional show structure, he could 00:09:17.200 --> 00:09:20.289 create these major theatrical events. He really 00:09:20.289 --> 00:09:22.950 is an institution in that world. Okay, so while 00:09:22.950 --> 00:09:25.309 he's basically conquering Broadway, Hollywood 00:09:25.309 --> 00:09:28.330 starts calling. And cinema demands something, 00:09:28.529 --> 00:09:31.669 well, a bit different. Right, and ironically, 00:09:31.850 --> 00:09:34.649 his first big film success asked him to use every 00:09:34.649 --> 00:09:37.710 skill except that amazing voice. Okay, so film 00:09:37.710 --> 00:09:40.330 roles. For a lot of people maybe who don't follow 00:09:40.330 --> 00:09:42.789 Broadway as closely, this is where they know... 00:09:43.460 --> 00:09:46.419 Yeah, definitely. And his early film success 00:09:46.419 --> 00:09:48.740 really ties back to his cultural roots again. 00:09:48.879 --> 00:09:51.559 That was Yentl, Barbra Streisand's film, in 1983. 00:09:51.899 --> 00:09:54.480 He played Avigdor. And got a Golden Globe nomination 00:09:54.480 --> 00:09:57.259 for it, Best Actor in a Musical or Comedy. And 00:09:57.259 --> 00:09:58.899 making that film sounds like it was a pretty 00:09:58.899 --> 00:10:01.419 deep experience for him. He talked about Streisand 00:10:01.419 --> 00:10:03.179 working to make him comfortable, despite her 00:10:03.179 --> 00:10:06.039 huge stardom. But more than that, he really... 00:10:06.440 --> 00:10:09.039 dove into the world of the character. How so? 00:10:09.259 --> 00:10:11.100 He actually spent a couple of weeks studying 00:10:11.100 --> 00:10:13.919 the Talmud at a yeshiva in Jerusalem to prepare. 00:10:14.360 --> 00:10:18.179 Wow. That's commitment. That's that intellectual 00:10:18.179 --> 00:10:20.279 rigor again, isn't it? Not just learning lines, 00:10:20.379 --> 00:10:23.039 but immersing himself in the spiritual and academic 00:10:23.039 --> 00:10:26.279 context. Classic Patinkin. Total dedication to 00:10:26.279 --> 00:10:29.120 authenticity. Way beyond typical Hollywood prep. 00:10:29.360 --> 00:10:33.299 But the irony, the big irony of Yentl. Right. 00:10:33.669 --> 00:10:35.710 Critics like Richard Corliss at Time magazine 00:10:35.710 --> 00:10:38.549 pointed this out. Here's Mandy Patinkin with 00:10:38.549 --> 00:10:41.289 this crystalline Broadway tenor, the voice that 00:10:41.289 --> 00:10:44.289 won him a Tony for Evita. And Streisand doesn't 00:10:44.289 --> 00:10:47.049 have him sing a note in the movie? Not a single 00:10:47.049 --> 00:10:50.009 note. It's kind of amazing. A huge missed opportunity, 00:10:50.190 --> 00:10:52.190 you could argue. Did critics still like him in 00:10:52.190 --> 00:10:54.860 it, though? Yeah. Corliss said when Patinkin 00:10:54.860 --> 00:10:56.500 was on screen, it was hard to look at anyone 00:10:56.500 --> 00:10:59.059 else, even Streisand. He just excelled at playing 00:10:59.059 --> 00:11:02.779 these profound, passionate men of action. Speaking 00:11:02.779 --> 00:11:04.919 of passionate men of action. Exactly. Now we 00:11:04.919 --> 00:11:06.840 get to the role that basically made him immortal 00:11:06.840 --> 00:11:10.440 in pop culture. Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride, 00:11:10.500 --> 00:11:14.580 1987, Rob Reiner's classic. Hello, my name is 00:11:14.580 --> 00:11:16.320 Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare 00:11:16.320 --> 00:11:19.730 to die. It's just perfect. That role, the best 00:11:19.730 --> 00:11:22.830 swordsman seeking revenge, it needed that stage 00:11:22.830 --> 00:11:25.210 discipline, that physical command, but also this 00:11:25.210 --> 00:11:28.039 burning sense of justice. And it became instantly 00:11:28.039 --> 00:11:30.480 iconic, not just the line, which IGN ranked as 00:11:30.480 --> 00:11:33.000 one of the best movie moments ever, but the whole 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:35.399 character. There's comedy, yeah, but it works 00:11:35.399 --> 00:11:37.820 because he plays the sincerity, the mission absolutely 00:11:37.820 --> 00:11:39.820 straight. Variety loved him in it. Right. Said 00:11:39.820 --> 00:11:42.379 he was a joy to watch and the film comes to life 00:11:42.379 --> 00:11:44.840 when he's on screen. Totally. It's amazing how 00:11:44.840 --> 00:11:47.480 he took that stage intensity and focused it into 00:11:47.480 --> 00:11:49.559 the cinematic role that's fundamentally about, 00:11:49.679 --> 00:11:53.299 well, moral clarity. Getting Justice. He did 00:11:53.299 --> 00:11:55.740 other memorable film work, too, of course. Yeah. 00:11:55.799 --> 00:11:58.679 Showing his reign. Definitely. He was Tate, the 00:11:58.679 --> 00:12:02.179 immigrant artist, in Ragtime back in 81. He was 00:12:02.179 --> 00:12:05.580 88 Keys, the piano player, in Dick Tracy in 1990. 00:12:05.980 --> 00:12:08.460 And he played Quasimodo in that TV movie of The 00:12:08.460 --> 00:12:11.179 Hunchback in 97 with Salma Hayek. The New York 00:12:11.179 --> 00:12:13.659 Times called him gentle and quite moving in that. 00:12:13.759 --> 00:12:15.980 Yeah, very different energy. And then much later, 00:12:16.039 --> 00:12:18.799 voicing Papa Smurf in Smurfs, The Lost Village 00:12:18.799 --> 00:12:22.950 in 2017. So, you know, he covered. But he brought 00:12:22.950 --> 00:12:25.769 that same intensity, that commitment to all of 00:12:25.769 --> 00:12:28.610 it, whether it was Broadway or film or Papa Smurf. 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:32.139 True, but it's really in television, serialized 00:12:32.139 --> 00:12:34.899 TV where you commit for years, that his integrity 00:12:34.899 --> 00:12:37.120 faced the biggest tests, the real high stakes 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:38.919 choices. Yeah, this is where the pattern really 00:12:38.919 --> 00:12:41.980 emerges. The moral crossroads, hashtag take, 00:12:42.080 --> 00:12:44.879 take, take for your V, the television years and 00:12:44.879 --> 00:12:47.419 the moral crossroads. Okay, this section is crucial 00:12:47.419 --> 00:12:49.799 because this is where that integrity we keep 00:12:49.799 --> 00:12:52.360 talking about becomes really concrete, like costing 00:12:52.360 --> 00:12:56.649 him jobs, big ones. First major TV success. Dr. 00:12:56.769 --> 00:12:59.509 Jeffrey Geiger in Chicago Hope. That medical 00:12:59.509 --> 00:13:03.230 drama on CBS started in 1994. And he was fantastic 00:13:03.230 --> 00:13:05.809 in it. Won the Emmy for Outstanding Lead Actor 00:13:05.809 --> 00:13:08.990 in a Drama Series right away in 95. The show 00:13:08.990 --> 00:13:11.570 was a hit. He was the star. The driving force, 00:13:11.690 --> 00:13:14.610 really. And then he left after just two seasons. 00:13:14.750 --> 00:13:16.700 Yep. Right at the peak of its initial success, 00:13:16.860 --> 00:13:19.000 he walked away. And the reason why is so telling, 00:13:19.059 --> 00:13:21.559 right? It sets the stage for later choices. Why 00:13:21.559 --> 00:13:24.019 did he leave? He said he was deeply unhappy about 00:13:24.019 --> 00:13:26.159 spending so much time away from his wife, Catherine 00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:28.600 Grody, and their two young sons. So it was purely 00:13:28.600 --> 00:13:32.059 personal. Family first. Exactly. Think about 00:13:32.059 --> 00:13:34.460 that calculation. Giving up a starring role, 00:13:34.639 --> 00:13:37.659 an Emmy -winning role on a hit network show for 00:13:37.659 --> 00:13:40.330 time with family. That's a massive professional 00:13:40.330 --> 00:13:43.649 sacrifice for a personal ethical belief about 00:13:43.649 --> 00:13:46.169 what matters most. He did come back briefly later, 00:13:46.269 --> 00:13:49.549 didn't he? In 99. He did for a short time. But 00:13:49.549 --> 00:13:52.490 that initial decision to leave, that really shows 00:13:52.490 --> 00:13:55.049 his willingness to draw a line and force a boundary 00:13:55.049 --> 00:13:57.669 regardless of the career cost. OK, so that's 00:13:57.669 --> 00:14:00.250 the first big exit. Then comes the next major 00:14:00.250 --> 00:14:03.740 TV project. And maybe the most dramatic crossroads 00:14:03.740 --> 00:14:06.259 of all. Criminal Minds. Another CBS show, this 00:14:06.259 --> 00:14:08.759 one a crime drama. He plays supervisory special 00:14:08.759 --> 00:14:11.279 agent Jason Gideon, kind of the intellectual, 00:14:11.379 --> 00:14:14.159 experienced anchor of the FBI's behavioral analysis 00:14:14.159 --> 00:14:17.679 unit. Started in 2005. And again, huge hit right 00:14:17.679 --> 00:14:19.080 out of the gate. Patinkin is the established 00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:21.639 star leading the team. But history repeats itself, 00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:24.080 sort of, but for very different reasons this 00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:27.600 time. He leaves abruptly before season three 00:14:27.600 --> 00:14:29.879 even starts filming. This wasn't about family 00:14:29.879 --> 00:14:32.190 time, though. This was darker. Much darker. It 00:14:32.190 --> 00:14:34.389 was about creative differences, yes, but really 00:14:34.389 --> 00:14:37.429 a deep, profound moral objection to the actual 00:14:37.429 --> 00:14:39.909 content of the show. Leaving a hit show like 00:14:39.909 --> 00:14:42.639 that, especially so suddenly. I mean, that's 00:14:42.639 --> 00:14:44.899 often seen as career suicide, isn't it? Absolutely. 00:14:45.039 --> 00:14:47.960 He knew it. He apparently left apologetic letters 00:14:47.960 --> 00:14:50.500 for his castmates, explaining his reasons, knowing 00:14:50.500 --> 00:14:52.320 the disruption it would cause. Do we know what 00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:54.700 he said about it? His reasoning? Yes, and his 00:14:54.700 --> 00:14:57.759 direct quotes are incredibly powerful. He called 00:14:57.759 --> 00:15:00.720 signing on to Criminal Minds his biggest public 00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:04.679 mistake, which is, wow. Biggest public mistake, 00:15:04.960 --> 00:15:08.879 strong words. What else? He explained why. He 00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:11.820 said, and this is the core of it, I never thought 00:15:11.820 --> 00:15:13.759 they were going to kill and rape all these women 00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:16.200 every night, every day, week after week, year 00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:19.039 after year. Whoa. And then he added, it was very 00:15:19.039 --> 00:15:21.759 destructive to my soul and my personality. Destructive 00:15:21.759 --> 00:15:24.690 to my soul. That's... That's not just disagreeing 00:15:24.690 --> 00:15:26.850 with the script. That's visceral. Totally. That's 00:15:26.850 --> 00:15:29.529 an artist saying, participating in this, depicting 00:15:29.529 --> 00:15:32.210 this level of brutal, often sexualized violence 00:15:32.210 --> 00:15:34.850 week after week, it's damaging me. He found it 00:15:34.850 --> 00:15:37.590 fundamentally toxic, even though it was commercially 00:15:37.590 --> 00:15:40.049 successful. It's interesting comparing that to 00:15:40.049 --> 00:15:44.090 his stage work, which could be intense, but often 00:15:44.090 --> 00:15:46.309 focused on, like you said, intellectual precision 00:15:46.309 --> 00:15:49.250 or justice. Yeah. Surratt, Inigo Montoya. Right. 00:15:49.330 --> 00:15:52.399 This felt different. This was about... Maybe 00:15:52.399 --> 00:15:56.620 the nature of the violence, explicit, maybe gratuitous 00:15:56.620 --> 00:16:00.039 sadism beamed into Holmes weekly. And he just 00:16:00.039 --> 00:16:02.940 drew a hard line, said no more. At enormous cost, 00:16:03.080 --> 00:16:05.860 presumably. Huge cost. The steady paycheck, the 00:16:05.860 --> 00:16:07.860 residual income, the platform. He even worried 00:16:07.860 --> 00:16:10.000 he might never get to work in television again 00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:12.740 after leaving like that under such a cloud. And 00:16:12.740 --> 00:16:15.600 the network. Well, they weren't happy. They wrote 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:17.679 Gideon out, replaced him, and then years later 00:16:17.679 --> 00:16:19.960 actually killed the character off in the storyline. 00:16:20.240 --> 00:16:22.639 Yeah, pretty definitively closed that door. But, 00:16:22.679 --> 00:16:24.679 you know, his commitment, that moral stand, it 00:16:24.679 --> 00:16:26.919 eventually led him somewhere else to a project 00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:28.799 that actually needed his brand of intellectual 00:16:28.799 --> 00:16:31.490 complexity and ethical struggle. Homeland. Saul 00:16:31.490 --> 00:16:33.850 Berenson. Saul Berenson. Yeah. The veteran CIA 00:16:33.850 --> 00:16:36.190 guy, Carrie Matheson's mentor. That became his 00:16:36.190 --> 00:16:39.049 longest TV role, 2011 to 2020. And it felt like 00:16:39.049 --> 00:16:41.429 the perfect fit, right? Synthesizing that moral 00:16:41.429 --> 00:16:43.610 seriousness with the intellectual rigor he'd 00:16:43.610 --> 00:16:45.950 always had. Yeah. Homeland was all about ethical 00:16:45.950 --> 00:16:49.669 gray areas, wasn't it? Geopolitics, the ambiguities 00:16:49.669 --> 00:16:51.889 of counterterrorism. It wasn't the kind of black 00:16:51.889 --> 00:16:54.509 and white violence he rejected. Exactly. It gave 00:16:54.509 --> 00:16:58.049 him complex, meaty drama rooted in ethical dilemmas. 00:16:58.090 --> 00:17:00.470 He got multiple Emmy and Golden Globe nominations. 00:17:00.590 --> 00:17:03.669 for supporting actor for it. Did he ever talk 00:17:03.669 --> 00:17:06.190 about Saul in relation to his own views? He did. 00:17:06.309 --> 00:17:09.109 He had this great quote reflecting on Saul saying, 00:17:09.289 --> 00:17:12.190 the line between good and evil runs through each 00:17:12.190 --> 00:17:15.230 one of us, which perfectly captures Saul's journey, 00:17:15.349 --> 00:17:18.190 constantly navigating that murky territory, making 00:17:18.190 --> 00:17:20.990 impossible choices. It felt like a role that 00:17:20.990 --> 00:17:23.750 finally satisfied his need for meaningful, ethically 00:17:23.750 --> 00:17:27.369 complex drama. So after leaving Criminal Minds 00:17:27.369 --> 00:17:29.519 because it was soul destroying. He finds this 00:17:29.519 --> 00:17:32.680 role that actually engages his soul, his intellect, 00:17:32.839 --> 00:17:35.220 his moral compass. That seems right. And his 00:17:35.220 --> 00:17:38.240 recent TV work continues that trend. More complex, 00:17:38.420 --> 00:17:40.579 character -driven stuff on cable and streaming, 00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:43.259 like The Good Fight, playing that quirky judge 00:17:43.259 --> 00:17:46.000 Hal Wackner in 2021. And now he's starring as 00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:48.599 that detective, Rufus Coatsworth, in Death and 00:17:48.599 --> 00:17:50.960 Other Details. Right. It seems clear now, doesn't 00:17:50.960 --> 00:17:53.700 it? Any script he takes on probably has to pass 00:17:53.700 --> 00:17:56.160 a pretty stringent Mandy Patinkin moral litmus 00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:58.980 test first. It really does. Which leads us to 00:17:58.980 --> 00:18:01.200 thinking about the whole person beyond the roles. 00:18:01.400 --> 00:18:04.680 Yeah, because his life off screen really mirrors 00:18:04.680 --> 00:18:07.559 that same deep thinking, that same commitment 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:09.960 we see in his career choices. We know family 00:18:09.960 --> 00:18:12.480 is central. Marry actors and writer Catherine 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:16.640 Grody in 1980. Two sons, Isaac and Gideon. And 00:18:16.640 --> 00:18:18.660 that was the explicit reason he left Chicago 00:18:18.660 --> 00:18:21.460 Hope. Right. But his personal life has also had 00:18:21.460 --> 00:18:24.180 these major health challenges, which he faced 00:18:24.180 --> 00:18:26.470 with. you know, characteristic purpose. He had 00:18:26.470 --> 00:18:28.789 that eye condition, keratocombinatory, in the 00:18:28.789 --> 00:18:31.250 mid -90s. Yes, a degenerative thing affecting 00:18:31.250 --> 00:18:34.089 the cornea. Needed two corneal transplants, one 00:18:34.089 --> 00:18:37.490 in 97, one in 98. Major surgeries. And then prostate 00:18:37.490 --> 00:18:40.609 cancer. Diagnosed and treated in 2004. Successfully, 00:18:40.630 --> 00:18:43.230 thankfully. But again, profoundly challenging 00:18:43.230 --> 00:18:46.390 life events. But look at how he responded. He 00:18:46.390 --> 00:18:48.730 didn't just recover. He integrated into something 00:18:48.730 --> 00:18:51.509 purposeful. That's amazing, isn't it? Celebrating 00:18:51.509 --> 00:18:54.430 his first year cancer -free in 2005 by doing 00:18:54.430 --> 00:18:58.029 a 265 -mile charity bike ride in Israel. The 00:18:58.029 --> 00:19:01.589 Arava Institute Hazan Israel Ride. With his son, 00:19:01.730 --> 00:19:04.990 Isaac. Exactly. Turning recovery into this physical 00:19:04.990 --> 00:19:07.950 challenge, a charitable act, a family bonding 00:19:07.950 --> 00:19:10.349 experience, and supporting peace and environmental 00:19:10.349 --> 00:19:13.589 work all at once. That's very Mandy Patinkin. 00:19:13.730 --> 00:19:15.410 And his spiritual life is also really interesting, 00:19:15.450 --> 00:19:18.109 quite unique. He calls himself a Jew -boo. Yeah, 00:19:18.150 --> 00:19:20.630 he coined that term on a Canadian radio show, 00:19:20.710 --> 00:19:24.309 Q, Jewish with a dash of Buddhist. He clarifies 00:19:24.309 --> 00:19:26.589 he's spiritual but not religious. So it's like 00:19:26.589 --> 00:19:30.289 holding on to the deep cultural roots. of judaism 00:19:30.289 --> 00:19:33.349 the heritage the music absolutely but also incorporating 00:19:34.129 --> 00:19:36.910 broader spiritual ideas, maybe around compassion, 00:19:37.150 --> 00:19:39.049 mindfulness, that sort of thing from Buddhism. 00:19:39.269 --> 00:19:41.609 And that commitment to Jewish culture, it comes 00:19:41.609 --> 00:19:43.890 through so strongly in his work, particularly 00:19:43.890 --> 00:19:45.809 with Yiddish. Oh, completely. We have to talk 00:19:45.809 --> 00:19:48.410 more about that album, Mama Lotion from 1998. 00:19:48.769 --> 00:19:51.609 Mother tongue in Yiddish, sung entirely in Yiddish. 00:19:51.730 --> 00:19:54.349 This wasn't just like a novelty record, Yiddish 00:19:54.349 --> 00:19:56.009 itself. You know, it's this fusion language, 00:19:56.170 --> 00:19:58.789 German, Hebrew, Slavic. It carries centuries 00:19:58.789 --> 00:20:02.109 of Ashkenazi Jewish history and culture, so much 00:20:02.109 --> 00:20:04.289 of which was nearly. wiped out in the Holocaust. 00:20:04.609 --> 00:20:07.470 So recording an entire album in it. Yeah. It's 00:20:07.470 --> 00:20:09.869 an act of preservation, keeping that language, 00:20:09.930 --> 00:20:12.829 that memory alive. Exactly. He wasn't just singing 00:20:12.829 --> 00:20:16.450 old standards. He was performing and globalizing 00:20:16.450 --> 00:20:19.829 this vital piece of cultural heritage. And the 00:20:19.829 --> 00:20:22.430 fact that it run a major music award in Germany, 00:20:22.589 --> 00:20:26.150 the Deutscher Schallplattenpreis. Wow. the symbolism 00:20:26.150 --> 00:20:28.710 there is incredible right german recognition 00:20:28.710 --> 00:20:31.809 for preserving a language nearly destroyed partly 00:20:31.809 --> 00:20:33.990 on german soil it makes that album incredibly 00:20:33.990 --> 00:20:36.390 significant way beyond just the music itself 00:20:36.390 --> 00:20:38.609 it's a cultural statement then more recently 00:20:38.609 --> 00:20:41.259 there's this whole other side that emerged The 00:20:41.259 --> 00:20:43.640 viral Internet fame. Yeah, totally unexpected. 00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:47.200 Since 2020, his son Gideon started posting these 00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:49.940 clips of Mandy and Catherine Grody, just their 00:20:49.940 --> 00:20:52.599 daily life at home, often really funny, quirky 00:20:52.599 --> 00:20:54.680 moments. People loved it. It showed this completely 00:20:54.680 --> 00:20:58.099 different side, right? Intimate, goofy, relatable. 00:20:58.359 --> 00:21:02.059 Such a contrast to, say, Saul Berenson. Absolutely. 00:21:02.200 --> 00:21:04.599 And it kind of validated that Chicago Hope decision 00:21:04.599 --> 00:21:06.740 in a way, didn't it? Like, ah, this is the family 00:21:06.740 --> 00:21:08.859 life he chose to protect. And it resonated. And 00:21:08.859 --> 00:21:10.480 that viral thing actually turned into a stage 00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:13.440 show. Yeah. In 2023, a conversation with Mandy 00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:16.759 Patinkin and Catherine Grody, with Gideon facilitating, 00:21:17.140 --> 00:21:20.220 literally bringing that authentic family dynamic 00:21:20.220 --> 00:21:22.160 onto the stage. It's fascinating. Okay, so family 00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:26.859 health, spirit, culture, and then activism. This 00:21:26.859 --> 00:21:28.940 feels like the culmination where his moral compass 00:21:28.940 --> 00:21:31.299 points outwards towards global issues. Definitely. 00:21:31.359 --> 00:21:33.660 Especially after Homeland wrapped up, he became 00:21:33.660 --> 00:21:36.440 much more visibly involved. Like traveling to 00:21:36.440 --> 00:21:39.079 Greece in 2015 to help Syrian refugees. Right. 00:21:39.380 --> 00:21:41.660 Connecting that empathy may be explored through 00:21:41.660 --> 00:21:44.359 Saul Berenson to real -world action. He talked 00:21:44.359 --> 00:21:46.819 about wanting to help create opportunity and 00:21:46.819 --> 00:21:49.480 better systems to give freedom, justice, and 00:21:49.480 --> 00:21:52.220 dignity to humanity all over the world. It sounds 00:21:52.220 --> 00:21:54.140 like the same quest for moral order you see in 00:21:54.140 --> 00:21:55.920 his characters. He got involved politically in 00:21:55.920 --> 00:21:58.380 the U .S. too, partnered with Swing Left, Jewish 00:21:58.380 --> 00:22:01.660 Democratic Council of America in 2020. And famously 00:22:01.660 --> 00:22:05.059 used his Inigo Montoya persona in an ad encouraging 00:22:05.059 --> 00:22:07.940 people to vote for Joe Biden. He's consciously 00:22:07.940 --> 00:22:10.779 leveraging his iconic roles for real world impact. 00:22:11.079 --> 00:22:14.200 But maybe the most powerful recent example, the 00:22:14.200 --> 00:22:16.910 one that really brings everything together. His 00:22:16.910 --> 00:22:19.130 integrity, his roots, his willingness to speak 00:22:19.130 --> 00:22:22.670 out was his criticism of Israeli government policy. 00:22:22.890 --> 00:22:25.710 Yeah. July 2025. He gave an interview where he 00:22:25.710 --> 00:22:28.029 was very critical of Prime Minister Netanyahu's 00:22:28.029 --> 00:22:30.650 policies during the Gaza war. And this is significant 00:22:30.650 --> 00:22:33.410 because. Because here's a deeply committed American 00:22:33.410 --> 00:22:35.930 Jew, someone who celebrates Yiddish culture, 00:22:36.069 --> 00:22:39.289 who studied Talmud in Jerusalem, publicly stating 00:22:39.289 --> 00:22:42.529 that he believes those specific actions are endangering 00:22:42.529 --> 00:22:45.440 the Jewish population all over the world. That 00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:47.779 takes courage. And he used that same kind of 00:22:47.779 --> 00:22:49.839 language, didn't he? That moral intensity? Exactly. 00:22:49.880 --> 00:22:53.200 He called the harm to civilians in Gaza unconscionable 00:22:53.200 --> 00:22:56.299 and unthinkable. It's almost the exact same moral 00:22:56.299 --> 00:22:58.240 revulsion he expressed about criminal minds. 00:22:58.859 --> 00:23:02.039 Destructive to my soul. Unconscionable and unthinkable. 00:23:02.200 --> 00:23:05.140 Wow. So the line he drew back in 2007 about fictional 00:23:05.140 --> 00:23:07.259 violence. Yeah. It's the same ethical line he's 00:23:07.259 --> 00:23:09.119 drawing now about real world political action. 00:23:09.480 --> 00:23:11.579 That's the key insight, I think. It's the same 00:23:11.579 --> 00:23:14.660 core principle, rejecting unconscionable harm, 00:23:14.799 --> 00:23:17.240 demanding justice. And he applies it consistently 00:23:17.240 --> 00:23:19.920 across his art, his family life, his health challenges, 00:23:20.039 --> 00:23:23.440 his cultural work and his politics. That commitment 00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:25.980 to justice, whether it's for Inigo's father or 00:23:25.980 --> 00:23:28.240 for refugees or for civilians in a war zone, 00:23:28.359 --> 00:23:31.720 that seems to be the truest constant in his entire 00:23:31.720 --> 00:23:34.079 life and career. Hashtag, hashtag, all the outro. 00:23:34.279 --> 00:23:36.119 So when you look at the whole picture, Mandy 00:23:36.119 --> 00:23:40.190 Patinkin's journey. From Evita's Che to Surat's 00:23:40.190 --> 00:23:44.130 intense focus to Inigo's quest to Saul Berenson's 00:23:44.130 --> 00:23:46.509 moral tightrope, it really does seem like the 00:23:46.509 --> 00:23:48.930 most consistent thread. is that integrity. Yeah, 00:23:49.069 --> 00:23:51.529 that absolute refusal to compromise his core 00:23:51.529 --> 00:23:53.789 values. He proved, really, that for him, the 00:23:53.789 --> 00:23:55.529 art has to align with the ethics. He was willing 00:23:55.529 --> 00:23:58.170 to walk away from fame, Emmys, money. Leaving 00:23:58.170 --> 00:24:00.569 Chicago hope for family time, leaving criminal 00:24:00.569 --> 00:24:02.849 minds over its violent content. Because the work 00:24:02.849 --> 00:24:05.049 itself violated something fundamental for him. 00:24:05.150 --> 00:24:07.230 He wouldn't, as you said earlier, sell his soul 00:24:07.230 --> 00:24:09.690 for the job. And he's managed to weave it all 00:24:09.690 --> 00:24:11.589 together, hasn't he? The spiritual side, the 00:24:11.589 --> 00:24:14.109 family, the activism. It's all part of the same 00:24:14.109 --> 00:24:17.420 coherent public self. His artistic choice. seem 00:24:17.420 --> 00:24:20.039 almost secondary to his ethical framework. Right, 00:24:20.180 --> 00:24:22.180 which leads to a really interesting final thought, 00:24:22.259 --> 00:24:26.440 doesn't it? Given his focus on justice, his activism, 00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:29.960 his willingness to critique power, maybe the 00:24:29.960 --> 00:24:31.900 highest form of art for an artist like Patinkin 00:24:31.900 --> 00:24:34.140 isn't just the performance itself, the thing 00:24:34.140 --> 00:24:36.779 they create on stage or screen. Maybe it's also 00:24:36.779 --> 00:24:39.900 about the things they refuse to do, those courageous, 00:24:39.940 --> 00:24:42.880 costly choices to say no based on principle. 00:24:43.079 --> 00:24:45.569 Exactly. What do you think? Does that willingness 00:24:45.569 --> 00:24:48.450 to sacrifice the glory, the success for personal 00:24:48.450 --> 00:24:50.670 conviction, for peace of mind, is that maybe 00:24:50.670 --> 00:24:53.190 the ultimate artistic statement for someone like 00:24:53.190 --> 00:24:55.170 him? Something to definitely think about.