WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.520 Welcome to the Deep Dive. We're engineered to 00:00:02.520 --> 00:00:05.660 take these huge, complex topics and, well, break 00:00:05.660 --> 00:00:07.419 them down into something you can really grasp. 00:00:07.599 --> 00:00:10.519 And today, the topic is definitely complex. It 00:00:10.519 --> 00:00:13.300 really is. We're diving into Kanye Omari West, 00:00:13.539 --> 00:00:16.370 now legally known just as Ye. Yeah. A figure 00:00:16.370 --> 00:00:18.890 who's simultaneously seen as one of the greatest 00:00:18.890 --> 00:00:21.410 rappers ever, a revolutionary producer. And also 00:00:21.410 --> 00:00:24.250 one of the most, let's say, polarizing figures 00:00:24.250 --> 00:00:27.710 in modern culture. It's a lot. It is. And the 00:00:27.710 --> 00:00:30.949 scale is just immense. We're talking 24 Grammys, 00:00:31.129 --> 00:00:34.509 160 million records sold, a career that's been 00:00:34.509 --> 00:00:38.130 shifting constantly since, what, 1996? Music, 00:00:38.210 --> 00:00:41.070 fashion, politics. It's everywhere. Right. So 00:00:41.070 --> 00:00:44.390 our job today, our mission, is to navigate this 00:00:44.390 --> 00:00:47.280 huge... often contradictory history, and importantly, 00:00:47.479 --> 00:00:49.560 do it impartially. We need to trace it all, from 00:00:49.560 --> 00:00:51.759 his early life, the music highs, through to the 00:00:51.759 --> 00:00:55.159 really extreme controversies lately. Exactly. 00:00:55.240 --> 00:00:57.679 How did that college dropout challenging the 00:00:57.679 --> 00:01:00.439 system turn into this experimental titan? And 00:01:00.439 --> 00:01:02.920 crucially, how did that same drive lead to, well, 00:01:02.979 --> 00:01:04.659 everything that's happened recently, the lost 00:01:04.659 --> 00:01:07.120 deals, the public outcry? It's like charting 00:01:07.120 --> 00:01:10.000 creative genius against almost cultural self 00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:12.150 -destruction. So for you listening, this deep 00:01:12.150 --> 00:01:14.290 dive is set up so you can quickly get the key 00:01:14.290 --> 00:01:17.609 shifts, his creative work, his persona, the moments 00:01:17.609 --> 00:01:22.030 that changed everything, the highs and the very 00:01:22.030 --> 00:01:24.769 intense lows. We'll cover the artistic breakthroughs, 00:01:24.769 --> 00:01:26.689 the personal events that maybe triggered changes, 00:01:26.790 --> 00:01:29.430 and definitely the impact of his recent statements. 00:01:29.670 --> 00:01:32.049 Okay, let's get started. Where do we begin? The 00:01:32.049 --> 00:01:34.969 foundation. Right. Chicago. Yeah, to really get 00:01:34.969 --> 00:01:37.469 yes ambition, that confidence, you have to look 00:01:37.469 --> 00:01:40.609 at his upbringing. Born in Atlanta in 1977, but 00:01:40.609 --> 00:01:42.810 mostly raised in Chicago after his parents divorced 00:01:42.810 --> 00:01:44.750 when he was about three. And it wasn't just any 00:01:44.750 --> 00:01:48.109 upbringing. It was solidly middle class, very 00:01:48.109 --> 00:01:51.450 academic. Very. His father, Ray West, was a former 00:01:51.450 --> 00:01:53.609 Black Panther, then became one of the first Black 00:01:53.609 --> 00:01:56.109 photojournalists at the Atlanta Journal -Constitution. 00:01:56.450 --> 00:01:59.049 Impressive stuff. And his mother, Dr. Donna West, 00:01:59.290 --> 00:02:01.790 a huge influence. Professor of English, eventually 00:02:01.790 --> 00:02:03.829 chaired the department at Chicago State University. 00:02:04.599 --> 00:02:07.900 Exactly. So that environment, it instills a certain 00:02:07.900 --> 00:02:10.840 kind of confidence, right? Valuing intellect, 00:02:11.080 --> 00:02:12.860 critical thinking. You can see where some of 00:02:12.860 --> 00:02:15.099 that comes from. And it showed up early. He wasn't 00:02:15.099 --> 00:02:18.099 just playing around with music. Not at all. Writing 00:02:18.099 --> 00:02:22.379 poetry at five years old. By seventh grade, he's 00:02:22.379 --> 00:02:25.500 making musical compositions and selling them 00:02:25.500 --> 00:02:28.900 to local artists. Already entrepreneurial. There's 00:02:28.900 --> 00:02:30.680 also that year in China, right? People forget 00:02:30.680 --> 00:02:33.659 that. Yeah, when he was 10. moved to Nanjing 00:02:33.659 --> 00:02:35.680 with his mother because she was a Fulbright scholar 00:02:35.680 --> 00:02:37.819 there. He had to pick up the language quickly, 00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:40.240 navigate a totally different culture. He's mentioned 00:02:40.240 --> 00:02:42.639 forgetting most of the Mandarin since, but still, 00:02:42.780 --> 00:02:46.680 that kind of experience at that age, it broadens 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:49.139 your horizons massively. For sure. But then comes 00:02:49.139 --> 00:02:51.379 that really defining moment, the one that literally 00:02:51.379 --> 00:02:53.719 gave his first album its name. The dropout decision. 00:02:54.060 --> 00:02:55.900 Right. He gets a scholarship, goes to the American 00:02:55.900 --> 00:02:57.919 Academy of Art, then transfers to Chicago State. 00:02:58.560 --> 00:03:01.240 where his mother is a professor. And then at 00:03:01.240 --> 00:03:04.460 20, he just drops out, pursues music full time. 00:03:04.599 --> 00:03:06.900 Against the backdrop of that academic family, 00:03:06.979 --> 00:03:08.900 especially with his mom right there at the university. 00:03:09.719 --> 00:03:13.400 That's a statement, a real act of defiance. It 00:03:13.400 --> 00:03:15.860 really was. It wasn't just leaving school. It 00:03:15.860 --> 00:03:19.259 was rejecting that whole expected path. And it 00:03:19.259 --> 00:03:21.379 came central to his identity, didn't it? That 00:03:21.379 --> 00:03:24.939 core message of the college dropout. Absolutely. 00:03:25.500 --> 00:03:27.939 The whole philosophy was make your own decisions. 00:03:28.120 --> 00:03:30.360 Don't let society tell you what you have to do. 00:03:30.840 --> 00:03:33.400 That's the first big instance of him positioning 00:03:33.400 --> 00:03:37.280 nonconformity as like. The ultimate virtue. But 00:03:37.280 --> 00:03:39.539 before the rapping persona really took off, he 00:03:39.539 --> 00:03:42.979 was grinding as a producer, mid -90s Chicago. 00:03:43.340 --> 00:03:46.039 Yeah, making beats, developing his sound. Got 00:03:46.039 --> 00:03:47.639 his first official production credits when he 00:03:47.639 --> 00:03:51.020 was 19 on Grav's album Down to Earth in 96. And 00:03:51.020 --> 00:03:53.780 his rise as a producer was, well, fast. Meteoric 00:03:53.780 --> 00:03:56.259 is the word. By 2000, he's an in -house producer 00:03:56.259 --> 00:03:58.840 at Rockefeller Records. And the story there isn't 00:03:58.840 --> 00:04:00.659 just that he worked for them. No, the narrative 00:04:00.659 --> 00:04:03.659 is he saved Jay -Z's career, basically, with 00:04:03.659 --> 00:04:06.300 the blueprint. Pretty much. His soulful production 00:04:06.300 --> 00:04:09.300 on that 2001 album, it was a game changer. Suddenly 00:04:09.300 --> 00:04:11.599 the producer everyone wants. Working with Alicia 00:04:11.599 --> 00:04:15.780 Keys, Ludacris, Janet Jackson, the go -to guy. 00:04:15.879 --> 00:04:18.699 But here's the irony, right? The guy everyone 00:04:18.699 --> 00:04:20.800 wants for beats. Couldn't get his own rap deal. 00:04:21.040 --> 00:04:23.060 Exactly. Why was that? Because he didn't fit 00:04:23.060 --> 00:04:26.220 the mold. Capitol Records, others, they all turned 00:04:26.220 --> 00:04:28.879 him down. Mainstream hip -hop, then, was all 00:04:28.879 --> 00:04:31.990 about the gangsta image. The street narrative. 00:04:32.250 --> 00:04:34.230 And he's talking about, what, student loans and 00:04:34.230 --> 00:04:36.269 backpacks. Basically, yeah. Class struggles, 00:04:36.550 --> 00:04:39.990 self -consciousness, consumerism. Things that 00:04:39.990 --> 00:04:42.670 weren't really dominant themes then. The labels 00:04:42.670 --> 00:04:45.029 just couldn't see him as a rapper, only a producer. 00:04:45.370 --> 00:04:47.829 So Rockefeller, Damon Dash specifically, signs 00:04:47.829 --> 00:04:51.430 him as an artist, but almost reluctantly. Pretty 00:04:51.430 --> 00:04:53.170 much just to keep him producing for them, yeah. 00:04:53.250 --> 00:04:55.310 To stop him going elsewhere. He really had to 00:04:55.310 --> 00:04:58.009 fight to be seen as a performer. And that fight 00:04:58.009 --> 00:05:01.529 had a very real physical climax, the car accident. 00:05:01.790 --> 00:05:05.329 October 2002, a near fatal crash shatters his 00:05:05.329 --> 00:05:07.670 jaw. It's almost too poetic, right? Guy struggling 00:05:07.670 --> 00:05:09.750 to get his voice heard, literally has his mouth 00:05:09.750 --> 00:05:11.949 wired shut. But it didn't silence him, quite 00:05:11.949 --> 00:05:14.970 the opposite. No, it became the catalyst. Just 00:05:14.970 --> 00:05:17.870 two weeks later, jaw still wired, he goes into 00:05:17.870 --> 00:05:20.110 record plant studios and records through the 00:05:20.110 --> 00:05:22.910 wire. Incredible. That track, burned from trauma, 00:05:23.029 --> 00:05:26.060 it forced everyone to pay attention. To see the 00:05:26.060 --> 00:05:28.459 artist, the sheer willpower, not just the producer. 00:05:28.740 --> 00:05:31.199 The story became the sound. Hashtag, hashtag, 00:05:31.199 --> 00:05:34.279 hashtag, too. The progressive trilogy. and the 00:05:34.279 --> 00:05:37.040 introduction of public controversy, 2003 -2009. 00:05:37.160 --> 00:05:39.620 Okay, so the college dropout finally arrives 00:05:39.620 --> 00:05:42.699 in February 2004, and its release tells you a 00:05:42.699 --> 00:05:44.939 lot about how he operates. Oh, yeah. The album 00:05:44.939 --> 00:05:47.040 actually leaked months early, which could have 00:05:47.040 --> 00:05:49.399 been a disaster. But for him. He used the time. 00:05:49.480 --> 00:05:52.100 He went back in, remixed, remastered, added strings, 00:05:52.439 --> 00:05:54.779 gospel choirs. He basically treated the leak 00:05:54.779 --> 00:05:57.360 as a chance for more refinement, turning a negative 00:05:57.360 --> 00:06:00.550 into a creative positive. And the result? Massive 00:06:00.550 --> 00:06:02.269 success. Straight to number two on Billboard. 00:06:02.550 --> 00:06:05.209 Slow jams. Hits number one. Wins the Grammy for 00:06:05.209 --> 00:06:07.230 best rap album. Right out of the gate. And he 00:06:07.230 --> 00:06:08.649 was already challenging expectations. Remember 00:06:08.649 --> 00:06:10.810 Jesus Walks? Oh yeah. People said a religious 00:06:10.810 --> 00:06:13.149 song wouldn't work on pop radio. Executives definitely 00:06:13.149 --> 00:06:16.110 thought that. But it hit the top 20. It proved 00:06:16.110 --> 00:06:18.990 his point. Audiences wanted something different. 00:06:19.209 --> 00:06:22.170 Something with substance. Even faith. And he 00:06:22.170 --> 00:06:24.250 wasn't just focused on his own art. That same 00:06:24.250 --> 00:06:27.199 year, 2004, he starts Good music. Right. The 00:06:27.199 --> 00:06:29.699 label and management company signed John Legend 00:06:29.699 --> 00:06:32.639 Common, building his own platform from the very 00:06:32.639 --> 00:06:34.939 beginning. Then comes the follow up late registration 00:06:34.939 --> 00:06:38.620 in 2005 and the scale of ambition just jumps. 00:06:38.839 --> 00:06:41.540 It really does. He personally invested two million 00:06:41.540 --> 00:06:44.120 dollars into making it. That kind of budget for 00:06:44.120 --> 00:06:46.980 a hip hop album back then was pretty much unheard 00:06:46.980 --> 00:06:49.819 of. Why so much? What was he going for? Maximalism. 00:06:50.089 --> 00:06:53.329 Pure sonic ambition. He spent over a year on 00:06:53.329 --> 00:06:56.110 it. Inspired by Portishead's live album, Roseland 00:06:56.110 --> 00:06:58.430 NYC Live. But one with the orchestra. Exactly. 00:06:58.629 --> 00:07:01.610 So he hires John Breon, the film composer, to 00:07:01.610 --> 00:07:04.129 help arrange a full string orchestra. It wasn't 00:07:04.129 --> 00:07:06.490 just sampling anymore. It was intricate composition, 00:07:06.870 --> 00:07:09.149 blending that chamber pop sound with hip hop. 00:07:09.310 --> 00:07:11.870 A huge expensive risk. And it paid off critically 00:07:11.870 --> 00:07:14.110 and commercially. But this is also where we start 00:07:14.110 --> 00:07:16.589 seeing the public persona get louder. Yeah, the 00:07:16.589 --> 00:07:19.290 artistic success seems to fuel the public confrontations. 00:07:20.079 --> 00:07:23.899 2006 MTV Europe Music Awards. He loses best video 00:07:23.899 --> 00:07:26.319 for Touch the Sky. And he goes on stage anyway. 00:07:26.620 --> 00:07:29.480 Yep. Argues he should have won. He did apologize 00:07:29.480 --> 00:07:31.759 later, even spooked it on SNL, but it was an 00:07:31.759 --> 00:07:34.100 early sign, you know. That feeling of being overlooked, 00:07:34.220 --> 00:07:36.259 that his genius wasn't getting its due from the 00:07:36.259 --> 00:07:38.319 establishment. But the really big moment, the 00:07:38.319 --> 00:07:40.480 one everyone remembers from that time. Hurricane 00:07:40.480 --> 00:07:45.139 Katrina benefit concert, 2005. Live TV. Mike 00:07:45.139 --> 00:07:47.319 Myers is standing next to him. And he goes off 00:07:47.319 --> 00:07:49.399 script. George Bush doesn't care about black 00:07:49.399 --> 00:07:52.560 people. Boom. Yeah. Just drops it in there. That 00:07:52.560 --> 00:07:55.600 cemented him as this figure who would use his 00:07:55.600 --> 00:07:57.639 platform for these huge controversial political 00:07:57.639 --> 00:08:00.009 statements. Even if he later walked it back, 00:08:00.170 --> 00:08:02.829 apologized in 2010, said it came from a victimized 00:08:02.829 --> 00:08:05.350 mentality. That trilogy of albums wraps up with 00:08:05.350 --> 00:08:08.449 Graduation in 2007. Commercially, just massive. 00:08:08.790 --> 00:08:11.529 Unbelievable numbers. Debuts at number one, sells 00:08:11.529 --> 00:08:14.449 almost a million copies, $957 ,000 in the first 00:08:14.449 --> 00:08:16.129 week. And the sound changed again, stronger, 00:08:16.410 --> 00:08:19.149 sampling Daft Punk. That track felt different. 00:08:19.550 --> 00:08:21.470 It absolutely was. It wasn't just a hit single. 00:08:21.910 --> 00:08:24.370 Stronger is really credited with pushing hip 00:08:24.370 --> 00:08:26.529 -hop towards incorporating house, electronica, 00:08:26.550 --> 00:08:28.949 more European sounds. It helped kickstart that 00:08:28.949 --> 00:08:32.029 whole electropop wave in the late 2000s. Huge 00:08:32.029 --> 00:08:34.370 influence on pop radio. But right at this peak 00:08:34.370 --> 00:08:38.049 of success, tragedy strikes. Yeah, November 2007, 00:08:38.289 --> 00:08:41.669 his mother, Donda, dies suddenly. Complications 00:08:41.669 --> 00:08:44.559 after cosmetic surgery. Utterly devastating for 00:08:44.559 --> 00:08:46.799 him. And that wasn't all, was it? No, shortly 00:08:46.799 --> 00:08:49.100 after, his engagement to Alexis Pfeiffer ends 00:08:49.100 --> 00:08:51.980 too. So it's this double blow of profound personal 00:08:51.980 --> 00:08:55.299 loss. And that grief, that trauma, directly leads 00:08:55.299 --> 00:08:57.899 to another huge artistic shift. Immediately. 00:08:58.399 --> 00:09:00.320 He channels all that pain into the next project, 00:09:00.500 --> 00:09:03.399 2008's 808's and Heartbreak, recorded incredibly 00:09:03.399 --> 00:09:06.019 quickly, mostly just three weeks in Hawaii. And 00:09:06.019 --> 00:09:08.860 the sound, a complete 180 from graduation. Took 00:09:08.860 --> 00:09:10.879 everyone completely by surprise. He basically 00:09:10.879 --> 00:09:12.700 abandoned rapping. It was all synth -driven, 00:09:12.820 --> 00:09:16.159 electropop, heavy autotune, but not in a T -pain 00:09:16.159 --> 00:09:18.639 celebratory way. No, it was using autotune for 00:09:18.639 --> 00:09:22.120 melancholy, for emotional distance. Exactly. 00:09:22.220 --> 00:09:25.460 Like filtering raw emotion through this digital 00:09:25.460 --> 00:09:28.259 coldness, using his voice almost like another 00:09:28.259 --> 00:09:30.919 synthesized instrument full of sadness and isolation. 00:09:31.259 --> 00:09:33.620 For the mainstream hip hop audience at the time, 00:09:33.620 --> 00:09:36.360 that must have been jarring. It was hugely divisive 00:09:36.360 --> 00:09:39.080 initially. Critics, fans, they didn't know what 00:09:39.080 --> 00:09:41.840 to make of it. But looking back, its influence 00:09:41.840 --> 00:09:44.450 is undeniable. You hear it everywhere now. Absolutely. 00:09:45.129 --> 00:09:47.970 808s opened the door for rappers to sing, to 00:09:47.970 --> 00:09:50.409 be vulnerable, to use more atmospheric electronic 00:09:50.409 --> 00:09:55.009 production. Drake, Kid Cudi, Travis Scott. So 00:09:55.009 --> 00:09:57.850 many artists owe a debt to that album. He gave 00:09:57.850 --> 00:10:00.169 a whole generation permission to experiment with 00:10:00.169 --> 00:10:02.830 melody and emotion. So he cemented himself as 00:10:02.830 --> 00:10:05.149 this boundary -pushing innovator. Yeah. And then 00:10:05.149 --> 00:10:08.610 comes the 2009 VMAs. Ah, the Taylor Swift incident. 00:10:08.750 --> 00:10:10.509 Yeah. Interrupting her acceptance speech saying 00:10:10.509 --> 00:10:12.950 Beyonce deserved the award. The fallout was immediate. 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:16.419 And huge. Probably the biggest celebrity PR disaster 00:10:16.419 --> 00:10:18.620 of the decade up to that point. Everyone condemned 00:10:18.620 --> 00:10:20.960 it. President Obama famously called him a jackass. 00:10:21.080 --> 00:10:23.080 He apologized, but then seemed to walk that back, 00:10:23.139 --> 00:10:25.779 too, saying it was selfless or something. Yeah, 00:10:25.820 --> 00:10:28.279 he framed it later as being about artistic integrity, 00:10:28.500 --> 00:10:31.919 about justice for Beyonce's video. But the damage 00:10:31.919 --> 00:10:34.379 was done. The controversy, the spectacle, it 00:10:34.379 --> 00:10:37.100 became welded to his public image. Unavoidably 00:10:37.100 --> 00:10:39.740 so. Hashtag tag tag three three. The art of the 00:10:39.740 --> 00:10:42.820 comeback and creative extremism. 2010, 2015. 00:10:43.410 --> 00:10:46.669 Okay, so the VMA fallout is massive. How does 00:10:46.669 --> 00:10:48.370 he respond? Well, first he kind of disappears 00:10:48.370 --> 00:10:50.889 for a bit, a self -imposed exile, dabbled in 00:10:50.889 --> 00:10:53.029 fashion, but everyone was waiting for the musical 00:10:53.029 --> 00:10:55.669 comeback. And he heads back to Hawaii? Yep, sets 00:10:55.669 --> 00:10:57.629 up shop again, but this time it's even more intense, 00:10:57.730 --> 00:11:00.009 months of recording. It became legendary, this 00:11:00.009 --> 00:11:02.049 sort of rap camp. What was the atmosphere like? 00:11:02.669 --> 00:11:04.710 Communal, but also like a creative pressure cooker. 00:11:05.080 --> 00:11:06.899 He flew in his favorite producers, engineers, 00:11:07.139 --> 00:11:10.440 artists, Jay -Z, Kid Cudi, Pusha T, and basically 00:11:10.440 --> 00:11:13.679 had them living and working there 247 in shifts. 00:11:14.399 --> 00:11:16.220 Suits required at dinner, apparently. Strict 00:11:16.220 --> 00:11:18.220 rules. All focused on channeling that energy, 00:11:18.340 --> 00:11:20.759 overcoming the public shame into the music. Exactly. 00:11:20.759 --> 00:11:22.620 And the result was my beautiful dark twisted 00:11:22.620 --> 00:11:24.899 fantasy in 2010. Which was just the opposite 00:11:24.899 --> 00:11:29.309 of 808s in many ways. Totally. If 808s was minimalist 00:11:29.309 --> 00:11:33.570 and cold, MBDTF was maximalist, sprawling, opulent, 00:11:33.629 --> 00:11:37.730 complex, dealing head on with fame, excess, self 00:11:37.730 --> 00:11:40.269 -doubt, public perception. And the reception. 00:11:40.690 --> 00:11:43.759 Overwhelmingly positive. almost universally acclaimed 00:11:43.759 --> 00:11:46.820 as a masterpiece, his best work. It absolutely 00:11:46.820 --> 00:11:48.919 cemented his comeback. It's often called one 00:11:48.919 --> 00:11:51.659 of the greatest albums, period, of the 21st century. 00:11:51.799 --> 00:11:54.139 He also had that clever release strategy, The 00:11:54.139 --> 00:11:57.320 Good Fridays. Right. Releasing free, high -quality 00:11:57.320 --> 00:12:00.059 tracks every Friday leading up to the album built 00:12:00.059 --> 00:12:01.940 incredible hype, kept him in the conversation 00:12:01.940 --> 00:12:04.740 constantly. Genius marketing, really. And he 00:12:04.740 --> 00:12:06.379 wasn't just thinking about audio, the Runaway 00:12:06.379 --> 00:12:08.840 film. Yeah, the 35 -minute short film he wrote. 00:12:09.179 --> 00:12:11.159 Directed and starred in. Yeah. Using the music 00:12:11.159 --> 00:12:14.379 from MBDTF. He saw this as a bigger artistic 00:12:14.379 --> 00:12:16.799 statement, not just an album. A whole visual 00:12:16.799 --> 00:12:19.720 world. After that huge success, he leaned into 00:12:19.720 --> 00:12:22.240 collaboration. Watched The Throne with Jay -Z 00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:24.820 in 2011. A massive event album. And they were 00:12:24.820 --> 00:12:26.379 smart about the release, too, trying to beat 00:12:26.379 --> 00:12:28.679 the pirates. How'd they do that? Dropped it digitally 00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:31.860 first, weeks before the physical CDs. It helped 00:12:31.860 --> 00:12:33.519 control leaks and make sure the initial sales 00:12:33.519 --> 00:12:36.259 counted properly. Pretty savvy move for the time. 00:12:36.399 --> 00:12:39.330 But Kanye being Kanye. After reaching this peak 00:12:39.330 --> 00:12:42.889 of accepted brilliance, he pivots hard again, 00:12:43.149 --> 00:12:46.250 uses 2013, and this time the goal was almost 00:12:46.250 --> 00:12:50.570 anti -commercial. Explicitly so. He said he wanted 00:12:50.570 --> 00:12:53.029 to undermine the commercial to basically tear 00:12:53.029 --> 00:12:55.230 down the sound he'd just perfected. So what did 00:12:55.230 --> 00:12:58.789 Jesus sound like? Harsh, abrasive, minimalist, 00:12:58.909 --> 00:13:01.330 but aggressive. It pulled from industrial music, 00:13:01.529 --> 00:13:03.830 acid house, Jamaican dance hall, Chicago drill. 00:13:04.879 --> 00:13:07.100 Very raw, distorted sounds. And the story of 00:13:07.100 --> 00:13:09.440 making that album is wild too, right? With Rick 00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:11.340 Rubin? Absolutely legendary. He calls in Rick 00:13:11.340 --> 00:13:13.740 Rubin like 15 days before the deadline. Just 00:13:13.740 --> 00:13:16.379 two weeks out. Yeah. And tells Rubin to basically 00:13:16.379 --> 00:13:18.500 strip everything down, make it even more minimal, 00:13:18.539 --> 00:13:20.919 more sparse. Rubin famously said he was taking 00:13:20.919 --> 00:13:24.039 layers out, not adding them. That decision, bringing 00:13:24.039 --> 00:13:26.500 Rubin in at the 11th hour to deconstruct everything, 00:13:26.840 --> 00:13:29.360 that says so much about his process. It's about 00:13:29.360 --> 00:13:32.590 impact, shock, not just polish. Totally. It was 00:13:32.590 --> 00:13:35.990 confrontational. He wanted it to feel jagged, 00:13:36.029 --> 00:13:39.669 unfinished almost. Yeah. A direct reaction against 00:13:39.669 --> 00:13:43.309 the lushness of MBDTF. And the tour for Yeezus 00:13:43.309 --> 00:13:46.870 reflected that. Oh, completely. Masks, Margiela, 00:13:46.889 --> 00:13:50.570 stark staging, performance art elements. It was 00:13:50.570 --> 00:13:53.330 controversial, polarizing, but critics actually 00:13:53.330 --> 00:13:56.610 lauded the risk -taking. Right. I remember reviews 00:13:56.610 --> 00:13:59.210 calling it bonkers, but brilliant, praising him 00:13:59.210 --> 00:14:01.450 for doing something genuinely challenging. He'd 00:14:01.450 --> 00:14:03.250 successfully flipped the script again. Success 00:14:03.250 --> 00:14:06.009 wasn't just sales. It was about provoking a reaction, 00:14:06.269 --> 00:14:08.830 dictating the cultural conversation on his own 00:14:08.830 --> 00:14:11.149 terms. And during this period, he's also reaching 00:14:11.149 --> 00:14:14.169 across generations, collaborating with Paul McCartney. 00:14:14.250 --> 00:14:16.470 Yeah, the song Only One, which is incredibly 00:14:16.470 --> 00:14:18.470 stripped down and personal, supposedly from his 00:14:18.470 --> 00:14:20.669 mother's perspective. And then. Four or five 00:14:20.669 --> 00:14:22.990 seconds with McCartney and Rihanna. Huge hit. 00:14:23.070 --> 00:14:24.549 Very different sound again. It all seemed to 00:14:24.549 --> 00:14:26.669 culminate in this big moment of institutional 00:14:26.669 --> 00:14:29.610 acceptance in 2015. The honorary doctorate from 00:14:29.610 --> 00:14:32.370 the School of the Art Institute of Chicago. Recognizing 00:14:32.370 --> 00:14:34.610 him not just as a musician, but as this broader 00:14:34.610 --> 00:14:37.769 cultural force in art and fashion. A really significant 00:14:37.769 --> 00:14:41.690 nod. Although, we have to add the footnote. Right. 00:14:41.750 --> 00:14:45.340 That same doctorate was rescinded in 2022. Which 00:14:45.340 --> 00:14:47.159 tells you a lot about the next chapter, hashtag 00:14:47.159 --> 00:14:50.159 tag tag RV. Shifting identity, mental health, 00:14:50.240 --> 00:14:53.820 and the faith era, 2016 -2022. Yeah, that next 00:14:53.820 --> 00:14:56.740 phase, starting around 2016 with the life of 00:14:56.740 --> 00:15:00.759 Pablo, feels less stable, more chaotic. Definitely. 00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:03.299 Pablo itself embodied that. Remember all the 00:15:03.299 --> 00:15:06.100 title changes? So help me God. Swish. Waves. 00:15:06.179 --> 00:15:08.320 Yeah. He couldn't land on it. And even after 00:15:08.320 --> 00:15:11.379 it came out. Exclusively on Tidal at first, he 00:15:11.379 --> 00:15:13.659 kept changing it. Tweaking mixes, altering lyrics, 00:15:13.820 --> 00:15:16.000 even adding whole songs after release. He called 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:18.720 it a living, breathing, changing creative expression. 00:15:19.179 --> 00:15:21.039 Which is a fascinating artistic concept, the 00:15:21.039 --> 00:15:23.179 album never being truly finished. But also incredibly 00:15:23.179 --> 00:15:25.480 frustrating for listeners. It defied the whole 00:15:25.480 --> 00:15:27.759 idea of a finished product. He was asserting 00:15:27.759 --> 00:15:30.440 total control even post -release. But the art 00:15:30.440 --> 00:15:32.600 was getting tangled with controversy again. The 00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:35.360 famous video. Oh boy. Yeah, the lifelike nude 00:15:35.360 --> 00:15:38.059 wax figures of Taylor Swift, Trump, George Bush, 00:15:38.179 --> 00:15:41.759 Bill Cosby just lay down in a bed. Pure provocation. 00:15:41.940 --> 00:15:44.019 Designed to shock, to blur lines between art 00:15:44.019 --> 00:15:46.649 and, well, celebrity effigy. It definitely got 00:15:46.649 --> 00:15:49.309 the reaction he likely wanted. But then things 00:15:49.309 --> 00:15:51.990 took a much darker turn later that year. The 00:15:51.990 --> 00:15:54.269 St. Pablo tour. Right. He started having these 00:15:54.269 --> 00:15:57.990 long onstage rants, ending shows early or just 00:15:57.990 --> 00:16:01.090 not showing up. And then abruptly canceled the 00:16:01.090 --> 00:16:04.549 last 21 dates. News breaks that he's been hospitalized. 00:16:05.309 --> 00:16:07.750 Psychiatric observation. What was the official 00:16:07.750 --> 00:16:10.889 reason given? Initial reports cited temporary 00:16:10.889 --> 00:16:14.049 psychosis due to extreme sleep deprivation and 00:16:14.049 --> 00:16:16.899 dehydration. This led to the public learning 00:16:16.899 --> 00:16:19.820 about his bipolar disorder diagnosis, which he 00:16:19.820 --> 00:16:21.940 later confirmed. He even referenced it directly 00:16:21.940 --> 00:16:24.700 on the cover of the Ye album in 2018. I hate 00:16:24.700 --> 00:16:26.899 being bipolar. It's awesome. Right. But here's 00:16:26.899 --> 00:16:29.120 where it gets complicated again. Since then, 00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:31.820 he's repeatedly questioned that diagnosis. Suggested 00:16:31.820 --> 00:16:34.000 it was a misdiagnosis, attributed symptoms to 00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:36.220 other things. Exactly. Sometimes sleep deprivation, 00:16:36.299 --> 00:16:38.080 other times suggesting he might be autistic. 00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:41.179 He even claimed in early 2025 to have received 00:16:41.179 --> 00:16:43.620 a professional autism diagnosis, though the details 00:16:43.620 --> 00:16:45.960 around that remain somewhat murky. And alongside 00:16:45.960 --> 00:16:47.480 the mental health struggles, there were other 00:16:47.480 --> 00:16:50.120 very personal disclosures. Yeah, he talked openly 00:16:50.120 --> 00:16:52.620 about opioid addiction after liposuction surgery, 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:55.940 addictions to alcohol, sex, pornography, even 00:16:55.940 --> 00:16:58.740 experiencing suicidal thoughts. It was a period 00:16:58.740 --> 00:17:01.279 of intense personal turmoil spilling into public 00:17:01.279 --> 00:17:03.659 view. And all this becomes fuel for the next 00:17:03.659 --> 00:17:06.160 creative burst, the Wyoming Sessions in 2018. 00:17:06.599 --> 00:17:09.009 Kind of a retreat, yeah. He bought property there, 00:17:09.109 --> 00:17:11.250 announced he was writing a philosophy book called 00:17:11.250 --> 00:17:13.410 Break the Simulation, started posting these sort 00:17:13.410 --> 00:17:16.450 of life coaching aphorisms on Twitter. A shift 00:17:16.450 --> 00:17:18.910 towards being seen as more than just a musician, 00:17:19.049 --> 00:17:22.730 a thinker, a spiritual guide almost. Seems like 00:17:22.730 --> 00:17:24.609 it. And the music from that period reflected 00:17:24.609 --> 00:17:27.380 it. The very personal Yee album. The Kids See 00:17:27.380 --> 00:17:30.119 Ghosts collaboration with Kid Cudi, which explored 00:17:30.119 --> 00:17:32.359 mental health themes. But the biggest shift was 00:17:32.359 --> 00:17:34.579 yet to come. The full pivot to Christianity. 00:17:34.900 --> 00:17:37.819 Sunday service. Starting in early 2019, these 00:17:37.819 --> 00:17:40.579 exclusive invite -only gatherings, often outdoors, 00:17:40.740 --> 00:17:43.339 with huge choirs, gospel arrangements of his 00:17:43.339 --> 00:17:46.059 songs, other hymns. It became a phenomenon. And 00:17:46.059 --> 00:17:48.099 that led directly to the album Jesus is King 00:17:48.099 --> 00:17:51.259 in 2019. His first explicitly Christian gospel 00:17:51.259 --> 00:17:54.660 album. And commercially. historic success it 00:17:54.660 --> 00:17:57.359 topped five different billboard charts simultaneously 00:17:57.359 --> 00:18:01.700 the main billboard 200 r b hip -hop rap christian 00:18:01.700 --> 00:18:04.140 and gospel charts no one had ever done that before 00:18:04.140 --> 00:18:07.079 it showed he could completely change lanes and 00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:09.500 still dominate and during this time the name 00:18:09.500 --> 00:18:12.619 change happens october 2021 officially becomes 00:18:12.619 --> 00:18:15.680 just yay he said it was for personal reasons 00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:18.319 referencing the biblical meaning of yeah as you 00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:21.160 representing a collective identity maybe shedding 00:18:21.160 --> 00:18:25.210 the ego of kanye west The final big musical project 00:18:25.210 --> 00:18:28.849 of this era was Donda in 2021, which also had 00:18:28.849 --> 00:18:31.390 a very strange rollout. Extremely strange. Multiple 00:18:31.390 --> 00:18:33.930 huge listening parties in stadiums. Right. He 00:18:33.930 --> 00:18:35.890 was literally living in the Mercedes -Benz Stadium 00:18:35.890 --> 00:18:38.150 in Atlanta to finish it. Yeah. Set up a studio 00:18:38.150 --> 00:18:40.450 in a locker room, built enormous hype. But then 00:18:40.450 --> 00:18:42.109 when it finally dropped, he claimed Universal 00:18:42.109 --> 00:18:44.410 released it. Without his final approval. Again, 00:18:44.529 --> 00:18:46.750 asserting that control over the final product 00:18:46.750 --> 00:18:49.490 even after release. A recurring theme. Hashtag 00:18:49.490 --> 00:18:52.109 tag tag JV, personal life, business ventures, 00:18:52.109 --> 00:18:55.009 and extreme public views. 2012 present. Okay, 00:18:55.049 --> 00:18:57.269 so moving into the more recent period, focusing 00:18:57.269 --> 00:19:01.240 on his personal life and business. The scale 00:19:01.240 --> 00:19:03.480 just keeps expanding. The relationship with Kim 00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:06.200 Kardashian, obviously. Started dating 2012, married 00:19:06.200 --> 00:19:09.079 2014. It wasn't just a celebrity couple. It was 00:19:09.079 --> 00:19:11.579 a cultural force. The New York Times called it 00:19:11.579 --> 00:19:13.920 that historic blizzard of celebrity. And they 00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:17.019 have four children together. North, Saint, and 00:19:17.019 --> 00:19:20.160 then Chicago and Psalm, born via surrogate. But 00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:23.299 the marriage ended. finalized in 2022. With a 00:19:23.299 --> 00:19:26.180 significant financial settlement. Yes. $200 ,000 00:19:26.180 --> 00:19:28.799 a month in child support, plus splitting costs 00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:31.900 for education, medical security, highlights the 00:19:31.900 --> 00:19:34.339 immense wealth involved. His relationships have 00:19:34.339 --> 00:19:36.579 often been public and sometimes messy. Amber 00:19:36.579 --> 00:19:40.119 rose before Kim. Right. Dated 2008, 2010. She 00:19:40.119 --> 00:19:42.480 later accused him of bullying her, slut shaming 00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:44.539 after they broke up. And more recently, that 00:19:44.539 --> 00:19:47.519 very short, very public fling with Julia Fox 00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:50.339 in early 2022. Which Fox herself later described 00:19:50.339 --> 00:19:52.460 almost transactionally, saying she did it partly 00:19:52.460 --> 00:19:54.380 to distract him from his public arguments with 00:19:54.380 --> 00:19:56.500 Kim during the divorce. Then came the informal 00:19:56.500 --> 00:19:58.960 marriage to Bianca Sensori, the Australian architect, 00:19:59.240 --> 00:20:02.640 in January 2023. Informal being the key word, 00:20:02.740 --> 00:20:05.579 no legal standing. Their relationship has been 00:20:05.579 --> 00:20:08.440 under intense media scrutiny, lots of provocative 00:20:08.440 --> 00:20:11.839 outfits. There were reports in spring 2025 that 00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:14.319 she had left him over controversial tweets. But 00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:16.660 they were seen together again shortly after. 00:20:16.779 --> 00:20:19.390 Exactly. The status seems volatil. Very public. 00:20:19.549 --> 00:20:22.069 And amidst all this, a really shocking personal 00:20:22.069 --> 00:20:25.569 claim he made in April 2025. Deeply disturbing, 00:20:25.630 --> 00:20:27.990 yeah. Claiming he had an incestuous relationship 00:20:27.990 --> 00:20:30.769 with a male cousin when they were children, stemming 00:20:30.769 --> 00:20:32.789 from trying to mimic pornography they'd seen. 00:20:32.950 --> 00:20:35.650 Just a bombshell disclosure. Shifting to business. 00:20:36.190 --> 00:20:38.789 Donda, the company, founded 2012. What was the 00:20:38.789 --> 00:20:41.089 idea there? Hugely ambitious. The goal was to 00:20:41.089 --> 00:20:44.009 pick up where Steve Giles left off, to aesthetically 00:20:44.009 --> 00:20:46.170 improve everything. It became the umbrella for 00:20:46.170 --> 00:20:48.549 his various creative projects, known for that 00:20:48.549 --> 00:20:51.609 very distinct minimalist style. And fashion was 00:20:51.609 --> 00:20:53.970 always central, from early sneaker collab. And 00:20:53.970 --> 00:20:56.450 Bepestas, then the Nike Air Yeezys, huge deal. 00:20:56.470 --> 00:20:58.769 First non -athlete signature shoe with Nike. 00:20:58.910 --> 00:21:00.890 That really set the stage. And then the big one. 00:21:01.349 --> 00:21:03.990 The Yeezy clothing and sneaker line with Adidas 00:21:03.990 --> 00:21:07.190 starting in 2015, that became enormous. A fashion 00:21:07.190 --> 00:21:09.930 empire, hugely influential, massively profitable. 00:21:10.190 --> 00:21:12.230 But this is where his public statements started 00:21:12.230 --> 00:21:15.009 having direct, unavoidable business consequences. 00:21:15.369 --> 00:21:18.990 The anti -Semitic comments in late 2022. A prolonged 00:21:18.990 --> 00:21:21.549 series of them across interviews, social media. 00:21:21.849 --> 00:21:24.109 It became impossible for partners to ignore. 00:21:24.730 --> 00:21:26.970 Adidas finally terminated the Yeezy partnership 00:21:26.970 --> 00:21:30.609 in October 2022. And the financial hit was immediate. 00:21:31.190 --> 00:21:33.150 Catastrophic. His net worth, estimated around 00:21:33.150 --> 00:21:36.369 $1 .8 billion in 2021, reportedly dropped to 00:21:36.369 --> 00:21:38.809 about $400 million after losing Adidas and the 00:21:38.809 --> 00:21:41.250 Gap deal around the same time. Just a massive, 00:21:41.369 --> 00:21:43.990 self -inflicted financial blow. He also dipped 00:21:43.990 --> 00:21:46.329 his toes into politics, the 2020 presidential 00:21:46.329 --> 00:21:49.049 run. Yeah, ran as an independent, the birthday 00:21:49.049 --> 00:21:51.430 party. conceded pretty quickly. But later reports 00:21:51.430 --> 00:21:53.509 suggested GOP operatives were secretly involved, 00:21:53.809 --> 00:21:56.390 maybe to siphon votes, though the campaign denied 00:21:56.390 --> 00:21:58.609 explicit coordination. And he admitted he didn't 00:21:58.609 --> 00:22:00.849 really know much about policy. Openly admitted 00:22:00.849 --> 00:22:03.910 ignorance on taxes, foreign policy. It felt more 00:22:03.910 --> 00:22:06.150 like performance art than a serious campaign 00:22:06.150 --> 00:22:08.250 to many. But the rhetoric took a truly extreme 00:22:08.250 --> 00:22:12.049 turn after that, late 2022 onwards. That's when 00:22:12.049 --> 00:22:14.230 the explicit anti -Semitism really ramped up. 00:22:14.670 --> 00:22:17.890 culminating in that December 2022 InfoWars appearance. 00:22:18.230 --> 00:22:20.710 Where he praised Hitler, denied the Holocaust, 00:22:21.230 --> 00:22:24.710 called himself a Nazi. Just absolutely shocking 00:22:24.710 --> 00:22:27.430 statements. Followed by using swastika imagery 00:22:27.430 --> 00:22:30.299 online, getting kicked off Twitter again. The 00:22:30.299 --> 00:22:32.880 condemnation was universal. And the fallout wasn't 00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:35.460 just sponsors dropping him. There were real world 00:22:35.460 --> 00:22:38.420 consequences. Yes. The Anti -Defamation League 00:22:38.420 --> 00:22:40.740 put out a report linking his rhetoric directly 00:22:40.740 --> 00:22:43.859 to incidents of anti -Semitic vandalism, harassment, 00:22:44.240 --> 00:22:47.539 even violence across the U .S. A terrifying impact. 00:22:47.880 --> 00:22:50.039 Even his recent music has been caught up in this. 00:22:50.180 --> 00:22:53.420 The Vultures albums with Ty Dolla Sign had controversial 00:22:53.420 --> 00:22:56.880 lyrics and his planned solo album. Bully, then 00:22:56.880 --> 00:22:59.960 retitled In a Perfect World, he declared he wouldn't 00:22:59.960 --> 00:23:02.400 put it on streaming platforms, specifically blaming 00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:04.799 French and Jewish record labels. Just doubling 00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:06.920 down on the rhetoric. And now mounting legal 00:23:06.920 --> 00:23:09.460 issues, too. Seems so. The lawsuit against his 00:23:09.460 --> 00:23:12.819 dentist in May 2025, alleging he enabled a nitrous 00:23:12.819 --> 00:23:15.720 oxide dependency. Plus multiple lawsuits piling 00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:18.460 up from 2024 to 2025. Alleging what? Serious 00:23:18.460 --> 00:23:21.339 things. Racial discrimination, sexual harassment, 00:23:21.519 --> 00:23:24.200 wrongful termination, even sexual assault and 00:23:24.200 --> 00:23:26.960 strangulation brought by former employees, associates, 00:23:27.259 --> 00:23:30.119 a former model, a whole wave of legal battles. 00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:32.920 Hashtag, hashtag, hashtag. Musical legacy, style, 00:23:33.119 --> 00:23:35.039 and cultural influence. It's overwhelming, the 00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:37.460 scale of the recent controversies, the legal 00:23:37.460 --> 00:23:40.279 troubles. But if we try, just for a moment, to 00:23:40.279 --> 00:23:44.240 look purely at the musical legacy, it's undeniable, 00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:47.029 isn't it? Objectively, yeah. His impact on music 00:23:47.029 --> 00:23:49.410 is revolutionary. His entire career is defined 00:23:49.410 --> 00:23:52.950 by constant stylistic shifts, radical experimentation, 00:23:53.390 --> 00:23:55.869 but somehow often keeping it accessible, pop 00:23:55.869 --> 00:23:58.289 savvy. Let's talk about that sound. Early on, 00:23:58.289 --> 00:24:00.769 the chipmunk soul. Right. That signature sound 00:24:00.769 --> 00:24:03.269 he pioneered, taking old soul samples, speeding 00:24:03.269 --> 00:24:05.089 them up, pitching them high. He gave his early 00:24:05.089 --> 00:24:07.670 beats this really warm, nostalgic, yet energetic 00:24:07.670 --> 00:24:10.190 feel. How did that compare to what else was happening 00:24:10.190 --> 00:24:12.470 in hip hop then? It was a huge contrast to the 00:24:12.470 --> 00:24:14.829 dominant, gritty, minimalist boom bap sound. 00:24:15.309 --> 00:24:18.029 His production was lush, melodic, often quite 00:24:18.029 --> 00:24:20.410 emotional. And lyrically, he just broke the mold. 00:24:20.569 --> 00:24:23.069 Moving away from the gangsta narratives. Completely. 00:24:23.470 --> 00:24:26.730 Talking about college, work, insecurity, consumerism, 00:24:26.789 --> 00:24:30.029 racism. More introspective, middle -class concerns. 00:24:30.509 --> 00:24:32.329 Things that weren't typically front and center 00:24:32.329 --> 00:24:34.710 in mainstream rap. And that opened doors, didn't 00:24:34.710 --> 00:24:37.630 it? Massively. He proved you could be commercially 00:24:37.630 --> 00:24:40.430 huge without adhering to that hardcore image. 00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:43.259 Paved the way for a whole generation of artists 00:24:43.259 --> 00:24:45.940 exploring different themes and sounds. Drake, 00:24:46.099 --> 00:24:48.720 J. Cole, Childish Gambino. And the way he just 00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:52.259 kept changing styles. It's almost unparalleled 00:24:52.259 --> 00:24:54.700 in the mainstream. The progression is wild when 00:24:54.700 --> 00:24:56.980 you list it out. Late registration brings in 00:24:56.980 --> 00:24:59.960 chamber pop. Graduation leans into arena rock, 00:25:00.140 --> 00:25:03.730 euro pop. Then the 808s shock. Synth pop, auto 00:25:03.730 --> 00:25:06.170 -tuned vocals. Followed by Yeezus, industrial 00:25:06.170 --> 00:25:09.589 acid house drill. Deliberately abrasive. And 00:25:09.589 --> 00:25:11.490 then the complete turn to gospel and Christian 00:25:11.490 --> 00:25:14.309 rap with Jesus is King and Donda. It's staggering. 00:25:14.470 --> 00:25:16.829 Name another artist at that level of fame who 00:25:16.829 --> 00:25:19.329 has successfully reinvented their core sound 00:25:19.329 --> 00:25:22.390 so dramatically, so many times, and kept hitting 00:25:22.390 --> 00:25:24.369 number one. So the critical acclaim makes sense. 00:25:24.450 --> 00:25:26.269 He's consistently called one of the most important 00:25:26.269 --> 00:25:28.170 artists of our time. Yeah, critics recognize 00:25:28.170 --> 00:25:31.059 that constant innovation. That influence. He 00:25:31.059 --> 00:25:33.500 shares the record with Bob Dylan for most albums, 00:25:33.559 --> 00:25:36.539 topping the Paz and Jop critics poll for each. 00:25:36.700 --> 00:25:39.299 That speaks volumes. And you see his influence 00:25:39.299 --> 00:25:42.579 cited by artists across genres, not just rappers. 00:25:42.779 --> 00:25:46.299 Drake, Nicki Minaj, sure, but also Lorde, James 00:25:46.299 --> 00:25:50.279 Blake, Rosalia. His impact on production, melody, 00:25:50.440 --> 00:25:53.180 and just artistic risk -taking is incredibly 00:25:53.180 --> 00:25:55.259 widespread. The stats back it up, too. The chart 00:25:55.259 --> 00:25:58.039 records. Tied with Eminem, nine consecutive studio 00:25:58.039 --> 00:26:00.059 albums debuting at number one on Billboard 200. 00:26:00.380 --> 00:26:03.119 That level of sustained dominance is rare. Plus 00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:05.440 major awards like the Billboard Artist Achievement 00:26:05.440 --> 00:26:08.220 Award, the MTV Video Vanguard Award. The industry 00:26:08.220 --> 00:26:10.079 recognized its impact for years. Hashtag tag 00:26:10.079 --> 00:26:12.900 tag outro. So wrapping this up, what we've really 00:26:12.900 --> 00:26:14.740 traced here are these two parallel tracks, right? 00:26:14.859 --> 00:26:18.579 On one hand, this undeniable sonic genius, constantly 00:26:18.579 --> 00:26:20.940 evolving, breaking molds from the college dropout 00:26:20.940 --> 00:26:23.660 challenging norms to this boundary obliterating 00:26:23.660 --> 00:26:26.819 figure. And on the other hand. This trajectory 00:26:26.819 --> 00:26:29.980 where that same impulse to challenge, to provoke, 00:26:30.119 --> 00:26:33.059 what applied outside of music to public statements, 00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:36.599 politics, social issues, has led to this intense 00:26:36.599 --> 00:26:38.599 backlash, the loss of partnerships, the legal 00:26:38.599 --> 00:26:41.680 quagmire, the, well, the extreme controversy. 00:26:42.059 --> 00:26:44.220 It's the central paradox, isn't it? That original 00:26:44.220 --> 00:26:46.809 ethos from the college dropout. make your own 00:26:46.809 --> 00:26:49.630 decisions, reject the status quo. It fueled incredible 00:26:49.630 --> 00:26:52.450 artistic success. But when that rejection turned 00:26:52.450 --> 00:26:55.329 towards, you know, basic social contracts, towards 00:26:55.329 --> 00:26:58.630 deeply offensive rhetoric, it resulted in this 00:26:58.630 --> 00:27:00.710 catastrophic loss of institutional standing. 00:27:00.910 --> 00:27:03.369 The rescinded degree, the terminated deals worth 00:27:03.369 --> 00:27:05.569 billions. Yeah, as you said, the music often 00:27:05.569 --> 00:27:07.849 still charts. People still listen. There's an 00:27:07.849 --> 00:27:10.529 enduring cultural pull despite everything. Which 00:27:10.529 --> 00:27:12.950 brings us right back to that core idea. If your 00:27:12.950 --> 00:27:14.670 whole career is built on pushing boundaries, 00:27:14.869 --> 00:27:17.579 artistic... commercial, eventually maybe moral, 00:27:17.819 --> 00:27:20.779 is there a point where destroying those boundaries 00:27:20.779 --> 00:27:22.829 becomes almost inevitable? part of the artistic 00:27:22.829 --> 00:27:24.950 identity itself, even if it leads to self -destruction. 00:27:25.029 --> 00:27:27.230 It leaves us with a difficult question, maybe 00:27:27.230 --> 00:27:29.049 the difficult question for you, the listener, 00:27:29.150 --> 00:27:32.349 to consider. We've seen the immense cost of his 00:27:32.349 --> 00:27:35.190 recent expressions financially, reputationally, 00:27:35.230 --> 00:27:38.490 socially. So when an artist's work is so deeply 00:27:38.490 --> 00:27:41.109 woven into the fabric of the culture, like his 00:27:41.109 --> 00:27:44.750 undeniably is, can you separate the art from 00:27:44.750 --> 00:27:47.569 the artist? Is it possible to value the musical 00:27:47.569 --> 00:27:49.690 innovation while condemning the creator's harmful 00:27:49.690 --> 00:27:52.630 actions? And maybe even more fundamentally, should 00:27:52.630 --> 00:27:54.730 we even try to make that separation? Or does 00:27:54.730 --> 00:27:57.089 the creator's conduct inevitably change how we 00:27:57.089 --> 00:27:59.210 experience or should experience the art itself?