Welcome back to the Deep Dive. We are here to
really dismantle and analyze some of the biggest,
most complicated structures in culture and business.
We take the sources you provide, extract the
core intelligence, basically, so you can truly
understand the mechanisms driving these huge
global industries. And today we are plunging
into something massive, a creative, technical,
economic structure. It's well, it's gargantuan.
It literally redefined Hollywood blockbuster
strategy. We're talking, of course, about the
Marvel Cinematic Universe. Exactly. The MCU.
And to really grasp the scale here, let's start
with the fundamentals. I mean, the MCU is, at
its core, this meticulously planned series of
American superhero films. They're produced by
Marvel Studios, obviously based on Marvel Comics
characters. But it's way beyond just a successful
film series, isn't it? Statistically, it is the
single highest grossing film franchise of all
time, period. That scale. Yeah. It's just breathtaking.
Yeah. It really demands focus. Absolutely. Since
production formally kicked off, what was it,
2007, Marvel Studios has produced and released
37 films. And their collective global gross revenues,
get this, exceed $32 .4 billion worldwide. Wow.
I mean, to put that in perspective, that number
starts rivaling the GDP of like a midsize nation.
It's not just big. It's become this permanent
fixture in global finance. It's huge. And we
have to anchor this discussion to its high watermark,
right? Avengers. Endgame. It didn't just break
records. Upon release, it became the highest
grossing film of all time. It fundamentally proved
that this whole interconnected, serialized storytelling
model was. feasible, scalable, and, well, wildly
profitable. It really did. This is franchise
creation at a level that it just never existed
before Iron Man kicked it off. So our mission
today, for you listening, is to look beyond the
spectacle. You know, beyond the capes and the
CGI. Right. We want to extract those crucial
data points, the strategic decisions, and frankly,
the cold, hard financial and contractual realities
that actually built this universe. So you, the
learner, get a comprehensive shortcut to understanding
the how and the why behind this behemoth. And
the structure is absolutely key here. You have
to understand the structure. These films aren't
released randomly. They're intentionally grouped
into these self -contained narrative blocks.
They call them phases. Right, the phases. Which,
in turn, combine into larger, overarching, multi
-year narratives known as sagas. Okay, let's
unpack this then. Starting with those two grand
narrative arcs that have defined everything so
far. We have the foundational one, the Infinity
Saga, which successfully built the whole universe.
Your golden age, really. And then the current,
more expansive narrative, the Multiverse Saga,
which is attempting to expand it into, well,
wholly new dimensions, literally. The Infinity
Saga, yeah. That's what everyone remembers as
the franchise's founding decade. It spanned phase
one, phase two, and phase three. Ran from 2008
right through 2019. That was the blueprint, wasn't
it? Executed with remarkable precision. It really
was. And phase one specifically that defined
the entire operation. 2008 to 2012. Six founding
films. Crucially, starting with Iron Man in 2008,
that was the proof of concept, right? Because
nobody was sure an interconnected superhero film
could even work. Let alone five of them building
to a conclusion. Exactly. And what's absolutely
fascinating here is that phase one immediately
established the essential strategic rhythm of
the entire universe. You had individual character
films, Iron Man, Thor, Captain America. Building
toward something bigger. Building toward that
big giant linchpin event film, which in this
case was The Avengers in 2012. And that crossover
model wasn't accidental, was it? Not at all.
It was a direct calculated strategy, basically
mimicking the successful serialized release rhythm
you see in comics. It guaranteed built -in sequels
for the characters, kept them alive, and then
delivered a massive payday for the big event
film. Smart. It proved the concept could work,
which allowed them to move into Phase 2. Running
from 2013 to 2015. Another six films. Right.
But these served more as the bridge, didn't they?
They were designed to take some calculated risks,
expand the concept beyond just Earth. Precisely.
Phase two was notable for, well, necessary sequels
like Iron Man 3 and Thor. The Dark World. Yeah.
You had to keep the core characters relevant.
Sure. Keep the engine running. But it also bravely
introduced entirely new kind of esoteric franchises
like Guardians of the Galaxy and Ant -Man. And
that was phase two, proving the formula was infinitely
expandable. It showed the audience trusted the
Marvel brand enough to follow them into deep
space or tiny quantum realms. They built that
trust. That successful expansion led directly
into phase three, 2015 to 2019. This was the
dramatic conclusion to the whole Infinity Saga.
Yeah. Frequent MCU director Joe Russo, he actually
described this era as the deconstruction phase.
Interesting. Why deconstruction? Well, it began
not with a team up, but with a conflict, right?
The fracturing events of Captain America, Civil
War, tearing them apart before bringing them
together. Ah, right. Building the tension. Building
the tension perfectly, leading, of course, to
the two colossal concluding films, Avengers,
Infinity War in 2018. And Avengers, Endgame in
2019. And we have to underline the significance
of Endgame. It wasn't just another sequel. It
delivered what the source materials called a
definitive end. to all the preceding storylines,
all 22 films. 22 films, that's unheard of. Providing
closure on a scale modern franchises rarely dare
to attempt. It really is. But that incredible
sense of closure, though, it raised a massive
question, didn't it? Where do you possibly go
from the definitive end? Exactly. Which brings
us to where we are now, the multiverse saga.
covering Phase 4, 5, and 6, projected to run
from 2021 through, what, 2027? Yeah, 2027. And
this transition, it was a huge strategic challenge.
I mean, after the success and the emotional finality
of Endgame, Marvel president Kevin Feige initially
considered, well, he thought about abandoning
the whole phase grouping altogether. Really?
Wow. Perhaps fearing the structure felt too rigid
after such a big finale, but, you know, the lure
of a new, even grander narrative, the multiverse,
it prevailed. And the new structure was a...
officially revealed in 2022. So phase four, 2021,
2022. That served as the sprawling and frankly,
somewhat complex entry point into this new era,
didn't it? It really did. Very different from
phase one's focus start. This time we had seven
films starting with Black Widow, Running Through
Black Panther, Wakanda Forever. But the key strategic
shift was also in the delivery mechanism, right?
It wasn't just movies anymore. Not at all. Phase
four incorporated eight dedicated television
series and two special presentations, all debuting
on Disney Plus. Wow. Eight series plus specials.
Yeah. And that shift fundamentally changed the
audience commitment required. It was just a rapid
flood of content designed supposedly to plant
clues about the next saga's heading. But critics
noted it kind of diluted the narrative focus,
didn't they? Compared to the really tight buildup
of the Infinity Saga. They did. It felt much
less focused. And we're now currently navigating
Phase 5, 2023 -2025, which continues that heavy
content load. Six announced films, plus a truly
dense nine seasons of TV content slated for Disney
Plus Nord. The pace is just unrelenting. It really
is. And, you know, maintaining that initial blueprint
rhythm, the future of the multiverse saga is
already mapped out through Phase 6. Projected
to end in 2027. So they've announced the ending
already. Pretty much. We know the announced finale
will consist of four films, culminating in two
back -to -back major crossover events, kind of
bookends for this saga. Which are? Avengers,
Doomsday in December 2026, and then Avengers,
Secret Wars in December 2027. Wow. So the sheer
ambition, even with the recent strategic shifts
we're about to discuss, it remains sky high.
Absolutely. Planning years in advance. Okay,
that. dizzying volume of content, especially
in phase four, leads us directly into the massive
economic engine that underpins this whole structure.
Let's shift gears now and look at the engine
room in section three, the economics of scale
and the very recent, very dramatic strategic
shifts now governing production. Right. The production
core, it maintains a single key figure, Kevin
Feige. He's produced every single film in the
franchise. That consistency at the top is remarkable,
isn't it? It really is. However, the initial
films, they needed outside support. Avi Arad
produced the first two Iron Man films. Gayle
Ann Hurd worked on The Incredible Hulk. And the
complexity continues to grow now, right? Yeah.
With the Russo Brothers company, AGBO, co -producing
the concluding Behemoths, Avengers, Doomsday
in Secret Wars. Exactly. And as we know, the
Spider -Man films introduced that unique, complicated
co -production layer with Amy Pascal at Sony.
Right. And the recent credits for Deadpool and
Wolverine included Lauren Schiller Donner, Ryan
Reynolds, Sean Levy. It's a massive logistical
machine. It requires not just consistency, but
fresh partnerships and, frankly, highly skilled
negotiators. So let's rewind a bit. We must remember
the historical context of the initial development
strategy, say 2005 to 2014. because it was based
on one of the greatest financial gambles in recent
Hollywood history. Oh, yeah. In 2007, Marvel
Studios secured a staggering $525 million revolving
credit facility from Merrill Lynch. Wait, let's
just pause on that number. Half a billion dollars
as a credit line. That's an insane amount of
risk for a company that had, up till then, only
licensed its characters out to other studios.
What exactly were they risking? Everything. They
were betting the farm on themselves. To secure
that $525 million, Marvel leveraged the actual
film rights to 10 core characters they hadn't
yet sold off. Like who? Names like Captain America,
Thor, Black Panther, and of course, the big one,
Iron Man. So if Iron Man had failed in 2008?
The studio could have lost the film rights to
their most valuable remaining characters right
back to the bank. It was a high -stakes, all
-or -nothing move to produce their own content
independently. Wow. That gamble, well, paid off
spectacularly, didn't it? Yeah. Validating that
initial concept. Individual character films merging
for a massive crossover. Exactly. And that allowed
Fage to develop a philosophy early on to fight
off what he called superhero fatigue. Ah, the
treaded fatigue. How did he plan to fight it?
His production rhythm, as he called it, was genius
in its simplicity. Aim for one existing character
film and one new character film per year. Okay,
so maintain familiarity but introduce novelty.
Precisely. He argued that variety was the defense
against saturation. He explicitly pointed out
that their 2016 releases, Captain America, Civil
War and Doctor Strange, despite both featuring
superheroes, were completely different movies
in tone, in scope. Makes sense. Kept things fresh.
This strategy kept the audience engaged by offering
different flavors, different genres almost, within
the superhero framework. But that variety, you
could argue, started to dilute when the sheer
volume exploded during the multiverse saga. Absolutely.
Which leads directly to what Disney CEO Bob Iger
announced recently, the recent strategic reduction.
Right. Tell us about that. that. Well, in May
2024, Iger announced a major structural shift.
The company plans to reduce Marvel film output
from the four films they produced in some recent
years, which felt like a lot. It was a lot down
to just two or at most three films per year.
This is a clear top down mandate. decrease content
volume, and critically focus on quality after
some perceived dips in consistency. And Iger
wasn't exactly subtle about this, was he? He
cited Thunderbolts as the first and best example
of this refocusing effort. Yeah, a mid -level
team -up film relies less on massive cosmic spectacle,
maybe more on character drama, signaling the
new direction. Although they've already scheduled
four films for both 2025 and 2026, haven't they?
So the reduction isn't immediate. No, those were
likely already too far down the pipeline. But
Phage anticipates starting only two films a year
from 2026 onward. This pivot is a direct, data
-driven response to market saturation and, crucially,
cost inflation. OK, and here's where it gets
really interesting, you said, because that focus
on quality is inextricably tied to some surprising
cost control measures. It absolutely is. Page
announced in July 2025 that Marvel is actively
reducing film budgets. He noted they had inflated
significantly since Endgame. We need to unpack
why they inflated, though. Was it just pandemic
related costs or something deeper going on? It
seems like a combination of factors. Pandemic
costs played a role, sure. But also, sources
point to unchecked expenditure in visual effects
and escalating star salaries post -Endgame, post
-pandemic. So the success may be bred some complacency
on spending. Possibly. The source materials indicate
that the budgets for their 2024 and 2025 films
are planned to be a full third lower than the
enormous costs associated with films made just
back in 2022 and 2023. A third lower. Yeah. That
is a drastic cut. That's not trimming. That's
major surgery. It's a structural reduction. Yeah.
And to achieve that, they must be fundamentally
changing how they approach production. How are
they doing that? Well, they are. In a fascinating
move that really exemplifies the strategic shift,
Marvel executives actually met with the creative
team behind the creator. The Gareth Edwards sci
-fi film from 2023. That's a one. It received
critical acclaim for pulling off massive high
concept special effects on a relatively minuscule
$80 million budget. $80 million. For that scale,
wow. Exactly. So Marvel is studying those techniques.
They're learning how to produce their own huge
spectacles with greater efficiency, trying to
find those savings. So the company that basically
defined the massive budget blockbuster is now
learning efficiency from the high concept, lower
budget indie sci -fi model. That is a fundamental
reversal, isn't it? It really is. And it also
means shifting production locations based on
tax incentives and overall cost. Where are they
moving? Marvel is now utilizing Pinewood Studios
in the UK more frequently, apparently because
the UK had become cheaper for them. While simultaneously
moving away from their heavy reliance on Georgia,
where costs were rising, they're also utilizing
New York for its highly attractive production
tax credits. So this strategic budget cutting
is literally changing the geography of Marvel
filmmaking. They're chasing the savings. OK,
so the production complexity is one half of the
story. The financial control is another part
of the strategy. But the other, perhaps more
convoluted half, is distribution. which requires
navigating this truly Byzantine web of historic
rights and complex co -production deals. Oh,
yeah. Let's enter the distribution maze in Section
4, because this is where the franchise's long
history comes back to really complicate its present
and future. So initially, distribution was fractured,
right? Paramount Pictures handled most of Phase
1. That's right. The Iron Man films, the first
Thor, first Captain America. But Universal Pictures,
they handled The Incredible Hulk back in 2008.
But then Disney stepped in. Right. The consolidation
began pretty quickly. Walt Disney Studios' motion
pictures began distributing with the pivotal
film The Avengers in 2012. And then by 2013,
Disney strategically spent capital to acquire
the distribution rights back from Paramount for
Iron Man, Iron Man 2, Thor, and Captain America,
the first Avengers. So they consolidated the
majority of Phase 1 films under the Disney banner.
Smart move. Very smart. But one film remained
an outlier for years. And this is a key aha moment
for you listening. The Incredible Hulk. Ah, the
Hulk rights. Always complicated. Extremely. So
we knew Marvel Studios owned the actual film
rights. That's why Hulk could appear in Avengers
films. But Universal retained the crucial distribution
rights. And even more importantly, the right
of first refusal to distribute any future Hulk
solo films. What does right of first refusal
actually mean in practice? That distinction is
critical. It meant Marvel owned the character.
They could use him in team ups. But Universal
owned the veto power over a solo release. So
Marvel couldn't. risk making a solo Hulk film
for years exactly because Universal could just
step in distribute it themselves and take a large
share of the profits it was an active legal limitation
on marvel's ability to fully utilize one of their
founding avengers in his own movie but that legal
obstacle was only removed recently wasn't it
very recently in june 2023 those distribution
rights for the incredible hulk finally reverted
fully back to marvel studios and disney which
is why we finally saw the film pop up on disney
plus precisely this full rights reversion removes
a significant historical obstacle and You know,
it opens the door for potential future solo Hulk
projects under Disney's full control. They choose
to do one. Interesting. OK, the other major complexity,
which is ongoing and constantly evolving, is
the Sony Spider -Man co -production model. Ah,
yes, Spidey. This is not a full ownership deal
for Marvel Disney. It's a tight, carefully negotiated
contractual collaboration that is, well, perpetually
up for renegotiation, it seems. So just to clarify
for everyone, Sony Pictures retains ownership,
financing, and distribution control of the Spider
-Man films featuring Tom Holland. Correct. But
Marvel Studios, under Kevin Feige, co -produces
them creatively. Can you break down the initial
financial terms of that first deal back in 2015?
What does Marvel get out of it? Well, the initial
2015 deal, it favored Marvel creatively and commercially,
but mostly in non -film aspects. Marvel gained
full control of the merchandising rights for
Spider -Man. Which is huge. Toys, shirts, everything.
Massive revenue stream. In terms of the film
itself, Marvel received only a small percentage,
just 5 % of the film's first dollar gross. And
Sony paid Marvel an undisclosed producer fee
for Phage's services. So it was really about
getting Spidey in the MCU creatively and controlling
the merch, not about sharing box office profits
initially. Exactly. For Disney, it was about
creative access and merchandising control back
then. But that financial model, that led to the
infamous 2019 standoff, right? When it looked
like Spider -Man might leave the MCU. Oh, yeah.
Disney realized the immense value of the collaboration
after Far From Home, and they wanted a much bigger
slice of the pie. They sought a 50 -50 co -financing
split for future films. Which Sony flatly rejected.
They did. The negotiation impasse was very public,
very dramatic. Fans were freaking out. I remember.
The resolution, however, established the new,
much more financially significant model for Disney.
For Spider -Man. No way home, Disney agreed to
co -finance... 25 % of the production costs.
And in return, they receive 25 % of the film's
profits while still retaining those critical
merchandising rights. That's a massive jump.
From 5 % of first dollar gross to 25 % of net
profits. A huge difference. Absolutely. The agreement
also includes Tom Holland's Spider -Man appearing
in one future Marvel Studios team -up film. Though,
as you say, the clock is ticking on that specific
contractual window. We don't know which film
that will be yet. And looking ahead, the upcoming
Sony film, Spider -Man, Brand New Day, which
is slated for 2026. That's already expected to
feature team -ups with existing MCU characters.
That's the report, yeah. Specifically, Bruce
Banner Hulk and Frank Castle Punisher are rumored,
which demonstrates the continued creative trust
and partnership necessary to make these complex
contracts function smoothly day -to -day. Speaking
of seamless connection, or maybe seems showing.
The central concept driving the current era is
the literal inter -franchise multiverse. Spider
-Man. No Way Home explicitly broke down the walls,
didn't it? It blew them wide open, allowing characters
from entirely separate non -MCU franchises, Tobey
Maguire and Andrew Garfield's Spider -Man, all
those villains from the older Sony films to cross
over directly into the MCU. And the coordination
extends right down to Sony's other separate cinematic
universe, the SSU, right? With Venom. Yes. There
was explicit coordination between the teams behind
Sony's Venom. Let there be carnage in Marvel's
No Way Home. How did that work? Well, remember
the post -credits scene in Venom 2? Eddie Brock
and Venom get zapped into the MCU by Doctor Strange's
spell. Then, in the No Way Home post -credits,
they get zapped back out. But crucially, they
leave that little piece of the Venom symbiote
behind in the MCU. Ah, right. setting up future
MCU storylines potentially involving the symbiote.
Exactly. That is the ultimate strategic handshake
between studios, coordinating post -credit scenes
across different franchises. But there are still
firm limits, aren't there? It's not a free -for
-all. Absolutely not. Phage was explicit. Apparently,
Sony told Marvel Studios to stay away from the
fan -favorite character Miles Morales. Really?
Stay away? Yeah. Indicating very clear boundaries
remain on character usage while Sony develops
its own animated spider -verse film starring
miles it's a highly detailed shared universe
but only where the contracts specifically allow
it it's fascinating how they manage that it is
and interestingly sony's own universe materials
they refer to the mcu not just as another universe
but specifically as earth one nine nine nine
nine nine wow that's specific yeah showing this
mapping is highly detailed and presumably agreed
upon by both studios behind the scenes okay Now
that we've established the enormous complex structure
and these fraught legal agreements, let's get
into the hard numbers in Section 5, analyzing
performance, because ultimately, the box office
results the audience scores. That's what drove
Iger's mandate and the budget adjustments we
just discussed. Right. And the box office power
historically remains unparalleled. The total
cumulative growth stands over $32 .4 billion,
cementing its status as the highest grossing
film franchise globally. And we should note the
recent release of Deadpool and Wolverine alone.
That made over a billion dollars itself, didn't
it? It did, and that pushed the entire franchise
past the $30 billion mark. Just a staggering
achievement for any media property. But when
you look at the economics, some of these individual
films were truly massive financial bets, even
before the recent inflation. Oh, yeah. Avengers.
Age of Ultron, for example, had a reported budget
ranging wildly from $250 million up to a massive,
complicated $444 million, depending on how you
factor in things like pre -production costs and
residuals. That's a huge range. Very complex
accounting. More recently, Ant -Man and the Wasp.
Quantumania had a highly complex reported budget
of $388 .4 million. Nearly $400 million for an
Ant -Man movie. Those numbers show a budget creep
that clearly became unsustainable. leads us directly
to the crucial case study and inconsistency,
the performance of the Marvel. Ah, yes. What
happened there? Well, this film had a reported
budget of $375 million before UK tax rebates,
so enormous cost. Yet, it resulted in a comparatively
catastrophic worldwide gross of just $206 .1
million. Let's stop and digest that. A $375 million
investment returning barely half that at the
global box office. It's dark. That's a fundamental
business anomaly for Marvel Studios, isn't it?
It's a disaster, financially speaking. That kind
of financial misfire is precisely the kind of
data point that drove Disney CEO Iger's decision
to mandate that total production overhaul. Focus
on efficiency. Focus on quality control. Because
the spectacle wasn't translating to profit on
that scale anymore. Something had to change.
Exactly. So how has the audience responded over
time? Not just critics, but the paying audience.
Critically, the franchise hit... Incredible highs,
didn't it? Films like Black Panther, 96 % on
Rotten Tomatoes. The founding film Iron Man,
94%. Considered masterpieces of the genre by
many. True. But the deeper measure of audience
happiness, especially for a fan -driven franchise
like this, is probably the cinema score data.
That's audience polling immediately after they
see the film. Right. What does that show? That
data shows phenomenal loyalty historically. The
Avengers, Endgame, Black Panther, No Way Home,
they all received the top A -plus grade. A -plus
egg. That's rare. Extremely rare. It indicates
not just critical success, but extremely positive,
immediate, and statistically validated fan responses.
When Marvel gets it right, the audience absolutely
loves it unconditionally. However, that strategic
pivot we talked about, the reduction in volume,
it's impossible to ignore. And the recent critical
and audience data provides the context for this
correction, doesn't it? It really does. Films
in Phase 4 and 5 started showing a significant
divergence from that earlier Phase success. Critics
and audiences started reacting less favorably,
more inconsistently. Like which films? Well,
we saw films like Eternals sink dramatically
to a 47 % Rotten Tomatoes score, and crucially,
only a mid -range B Cinema score. Ouch. A B is
not good for a blockbuster. No, for these budgets,
a B is worrying. Ant -Man and the Wasp, Quantumania
performed similarly, 46 % RT, also a B cinema
score. So consistency is dropping. And even the
forthcoming Captain America. Brave New World
reports suggest it's tracking low based on early
screenings, 46 % RT again, and potentially a
B cinema score. B minus. Yeah, that would terrify
executives. Absolutely. This lack of consistency,
especially hitting that B or B cinema score range.
that provided the clear impetus for Iger's mandate
to pull back, refocus, and ensure quality. But
there was a recent positive exception, right?
One that proved the formula still works, provided
the quality, and maybe the uniqueness is there.
Yes, Deadpool and Wolverine. It achieved a solid
78 % Rotten Tomatoes score, which is good for
that type of film. But critically, it got an
audience -affirming... a cinema score and it
made a ton of money a massive 1 .338 billion
dollars worldwide gross it shows that unique
well -received properties maybe ones with a distinct
voice they still resonate strongly and profitably
but the scattershot approach of phase four and
five clearly necessitated a strategic correction
quality over quantity had to become the mantra
again so the performance data forces a complete
production correction Now we look ahead to Section
6, the blueprint for the future, post -2027,
where we see the immediate slate is already being
adjusted to reflect this new quality control
mandate. Right. One notable adjustment is Armor
Wars. Remember, that was originally announced
as a Disney Plus series. Yeah, starring Don Cheadle.
Well, it was quietly reworked into a feature
film instead, still starring Don Cheadle as James
Rhodes' war machine. And this project is now
confirmed to be set after the events of the Secret
Invasion series. So, shifting from TV back to
film. Is that part of the strategy? It seems
so. Producer Nate Moore openly noted that this
slowing down of projects and the shift from TV
to film for some was part of the studio's efforts
to reduce content output and focus resources
on fewer, higher quality theatrical products.
Makes sense. What else is on the immediate horizon?
We also have Black Panther 3 in active development.
That's obviously a major anchor for the future
slate. Ryan Coogler is confirmed as the director.
Is he working on it now? Active work will apparently
begin after he completes his current non -Marvel
film, Sinners. But importantly, Denzel Washington
has been confirmed to be cast in a role in the
third installment. Wow, Denzel Washington joining
the MCU. Yeah, shows they are still attracting
absolute top -tier talent, even amidst these
shifts. But the biggest future focus... the character
properties that will likely define the next saga
after the multiverse. That's the untitled X -Men
film, isn't it? Absolutely. Following the massive
narrative reset that's expected after Avengers,
Secret Wars, Phage confirmed this film will feature
a completely recast X -Men team, starting fresh
within the MCU. This is huge. This marks the
start of the long view, doesn't it? Phage confirmed
Marvel Studios has a plan stretching out. How
far? Seven years through 2032. Wow. And the next
large saga post -multiverse is expected to focus
heavily on those characters inherited from the
21st century Fox acquisition, specifically the
X -Men and presumably the Fantastic Four as well.
So the Fox characters are the next big pillar.
Seems that way. Phage reportedly has a detailed,
like, 10 -year plan specifically just for integrating
the X -Men into the MCU continuity, indicating
this is the next foundational build, similar
to how Phase 1 built the Avengers. And the casting
decision for this initial X -Men film is also
highly strategic, isn't it? What's the plan there?
It's planned to be a very youth -oriented, focused,
and cast movie, with Jake Schreier, who directed
Thunderbolts recently, confirmed to direct this
one too. Youth oriented. So they're looking for
the next generation. Exactly. That focus on youth
suggests Marvel is looking to establish the next
decade of stars, just like they did with Chris
Evans, Chris Hemsworth, Scarlett Johansson way
back in phase one. Build a new core. Are there
any other long term projects bubbling under the
surface? Yeah, a few fascinating ones that reflect
the ongoing relationships Marvel is maintaining.
There's still an unknown top secret project with
Scarlett Johansson attached, but serving as a
producer this time. Interesting. Not Black Widow
related. Presumably not. The work on that was
paused due to the 2023 WGA strike. Its status
is a bit unclear, but it's still listed as in
development. OK. And Ryan Reynolds, he's also
independently exploring script treatments for
an ensemble film centered on three or four X
-Men characters alongside Deadpool. So Reynolds
might be bringing some X -Men into his corner
of the universe, too. Seems like key creative
talent like Reynolds is being empowered to help
shepherd these newly acquired properties, which
could be smart. So the future clearly hinges
on two central tensions, doesn't it? First, successfully
integrating these massive legacy Fox properties,
the X -Men, Fantastic Four. And second, maintaining
this newfound financial discipline and focus
on quality mandated by Disney leadership. That's
it, exactly. And what stands out here when you
synthesize it all is that constant difficult
tension. It's always there between creative momentum
and financial or strategic limits. Well... Marvel
built the franchise by thinking like a comic
book company, right? Individual stories occasionally
merging for big events, smart, focused. But when
they scaled up to like four films and eight TV
shows in a single phase. Yeah, phase four felt
overwhelming. The quality and the consistency
suffered. You saw it in the reviews, the audience
scores. And that led directly to the necessary
intervention from Bob Iger to scale back the
volume, cut the cost drastically. It was a correction.
So we've covered this staggering transition of
the MCU. We've seen it evolve from the... a really
tightly wound six film per phase infinity saga
where almost every plot thread felt essential.
Very interconnected. Into the expansive, sometimes
maybe bloated multiverse saga. Characterized
by enormous overall financial success, yes, but
requiring this sharp self -correction in output
quantity and budget recently. And we know Marvel
has contingency plans for everything. I mean,
they managed to deal with securing the Spider
-Man rights mid -saga. They navigated. a global
pandemic. They plan for disruptions. Right. But
sometimes those plans or just the internal priorities
mean beloved creative ideas get shelved. Yeah.
And that's not always a strategic decision based
purely on interconnected plots or story necessity,
is it? Yeah, let me give an example. Well, consider
the Sheld Runaways phone project from years ago.
Serves as a perfect example of internal friction,
maybe. Runaways. I remember hearing about that.
Brian K. Vaughn's comic. That's the one. Apparently,
it had a solid script. It was envisioned as this
fantastic, grounded, John Hughes -style teen
movie within the Marvel Universe. Really unique.
Sounds great. So why didn't it happen? Well,
the project was shelved. First, in favor of pushing
all resources entirely toward making the Avengers
the biggest success possible. Understandable,
maybe. OK, prioritizing the big team up. But
later, the sources suggest, it stayed shelved
because this centralized creative committee within
Marvel at the time. They worry that the characters,
these runaway teens, wouldn't fit the ideal demographic
necessary to sell toys successfully. Wait, hold
on. You mean a specific internal committee whose
main priorities were merchandising potential
and target demographics? They overrode a creatively
sound, unique film project based on toy sales.
That's what the reporting suggests. It implies
the financial tail or maybe the merchandising
tail was wagging the creative dog even back in
those seemingly golden early days. Wow. That
suggests the power was highly centralized and
maybe prioritized marketing synergy over taking
a creative risk on something different. Exactly.
And this raises an important question for you,
the listener, as we move forward into this new
era. Given the new strict focus on budget reduction,
the mandated search for efficiency, like studying
the creator for tips and this top -down quality
control. Are we watching Marvel Studios return
to an era where maybe financial projections and
merchandising potential start dictating creative
choices more heavily again? More heavily perhaps
than that initial thrill of discovery that launched
the entire franchise. You know, the thrill that
came from a grounded, ambitious, character -focused
movie about a billionaire in a metal suit that
nobody was sure would work. That tension between
art and commerce, it's the very core of this
entire business structure, isn't it? It absolutely
is. And it's something to consider as we brace
for the final, presumably budget -controlled
conclusions to the saga in Doomsday and Secret
Wars coming in 2026 and 2027. We'll definitely
be here to track those budgets and the creative
swings every step of the way.