WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.480 Welcome back to the Deep Dive. You sent us, well... 00:00:02.649 --> 00:00:04.690 Quite a fascinating stack of sources this week, 00:00:04.769 --> 00:00:07.490 profiling a really unique figure in British music. 00:00:07.669 --> 00:00:09.929 We're talking about Jay McAllister, though you 00:00:09.929 --> 00:00:12.050 probably know him as Beans on Toast. That's right. 00:00:12.210 --> 00:00:14.470 And our mission today really is to go beyond 00:00:14.470 --> 00:00:17.350 just, you know, a standard biography. Exactly. 00:00:17.489 --> 00:00:19.750 We want to distill the essence of this career. 00:00:19.929 --> 00:00:23.550 It's built not really on huge chart hits or massive 00:00:23.550 --> 00:00:26.129 mainstream hype, but on something else entirely. 00:00:26.829 --> 00:00:29.890 Relentless consistency, almost unbelievable discipline, 00:00:30.030 --> 00:00:32.469 actually. Yeah, it's a model of creative. output 00:00:32.469 --> 00:00:35.570 that just, well, it flies in the face of how 00:00:35.570 --> 00:00:37.950 the modern music industry usually works. It really 00:00:37.950 --> 00:00:39.850 does. We're essentially looking at the power 00:00:39.850 --> 00:00:42.450 of the self -imposed deadline here. Because when 00:00:42.450 --> 00:00:44.170 we talk about Beans on Toast, you have to understand, 00:00:44.310 --> 00:00:47.189 this is a musician who has released a brand new 00:00:47.189 --> 00:00:50.990 studio album every single year. And always on 00:00:50.990 --> 00:00:52.890 the same day, right? December 1st. Traditionally, 00:00:52.950 --> 00:00:54.869 yes. December 1st, which is his birthday. And 00:00:54.869 --> 00:00:58.229 he's kept that up since 2009. That pattern, that's 00:00:58.229 --> 00:00:59.810 what we're calling the consistent conundrum. 00:00:59.829 --> 00:01:02.170 And it's really the hook here, isn't it? We're 00:01:02.170 --> 00:01:04.849 not talking about, like, live albums or B -sides 00:01:04.849 --> 00:01:07.950 EPs every year. No. These are full studio records, 00:01:08.230 --> 00:01:10.790 often quite thematic, reacting to the world around 00:01:10.790 --> 00:01:14.209 him. Fifteen of them by now. Produced on this 00:01:14.209 --> 00:01:16.569 schedule is so tight, it almost turns him into 00:01:16.569 --> 00:01:20.250 a musical journalist of his own life. A chronicler. 00:01:20.329 --> 00:01:22.969 Yeah. It's an incredible output. It really is. 00:01:23.030 --> 00:01:26.129 And his style, well, he operates firmly within 00:01:26.129 --> 00:01:29.480 that folk tradition. Yeah. But the sound. is 00:01:29.480 --> 00:01:32.319 broader than just that. It's complex. He draws 00:01:32.319 --> 00:01:34.540 on alternative rock, definitely some soft rock, 00:01:34.640 --> 00:01:37.180 pop rock elements in there too. But the core 00:01:37.180 --> 00:01:39.859 identity, I think, rests on two really crucial 00:01:39.859 --> 00:01:43.459 intertwined genres, anti -folk and comedy rock. 00:01:43.519 --> 00:01:45.200 Okay. Anti -folk and comedy rock. And he's a 00:01:45.200 --> 00:01:48.099 UK songwriter originally from Braintree in Essex. 00:01:48.219 --> 00:01:50.140 Yep. And he signed to Extra Mile Recordings. 00:01:50.140 --> 00:01:52.799 That label connection is actually pretty central 00:01:52.799 --> 00:01:54.939 to how he's managed to do all this. We'll definitely 00:01:54.939 --> 00:01:56.939 get into that. Yeah. Let's pause on that extra 00:01:56.939 --> 00:01:59.379 mile connection for a second, because they're 00:01:59.379 --> 00:02:01.340 known for artists who kind of thrive outside 00:02:01.340 --> 00:02:03.299 the mainstream, aren't they? Often with that 00:02:03.299 --> 00:02:06.340 punk or acoustic DIY feel. Thinking of Frank 00:02:06.340 --> 00:02:08.319 Turner, obviously, who seems quite important 00:02:08.319 --> 00:02:10.740 to this story. Absolutely crucial. And for an 00:02:10.740 --> 00:02:14.219 artist like Beans on Toast, who demands or rather 00:02:14.219 --> 00:02:17.039 needs the freedom to drop an album every year 00:02:17.039 --> 00:02:20.270 on his own specific deadline. Being with a label 00:02:20.270 --> 00:02:21.949 that actually supports that kind of creative 00:02:21.949 --> 00:02:25.009 autonomy isn't just helpful. It's non -negotiable. 00:02:25.090 --> 00:02:26.409 Right. They have to be on board with the whole 00:02:26.409 --> 00:02:29.110 concept. Exactly. Extra Mile doesn't just sign 00:02:29.110 --> 00:02:31.550 artists. They seem to embrace these, let's say, 00:02:31.610 --> 00:02:34.229 idiosyncratic models. They allow him to treat 00:02:34.229 --> 00:02:36.650 his career almost like an annual almanac. They 00:02:36.650 --> 00:02:39.810 prioritize getting the content out. timely over 00:02:39.810 --> 00:02:42.770 the, you know, often glacial pace of those big 00:02:42.770 --> 00:02:45.650 mainstream album cycles. 15 albums in 15 years. 00:02:45.810 --> 00:02:48.270 It really does set the stage for a remarkable 00:02:48.270 --> 00:02:50.430 deep dive. So where does this journey begin? 00:02:50.610 --> 00:02:54.430 Let's trace it back. Okay, section one, the origin 00:02:54.430 --> 00:02:56.930 story. We're going from Essex pubs to antifolk. 00:02:56.930 --> 00:02:59.629 The man himself, Jay McAllister, born in Epping, 00:02:59.770 --> 00:03:02.509 December 1st, 1980. Which explains the album 00:03:02.509 --> 00:03:04.729 release date tradition, of course. Ah, good point. 00:03:04.909 --> 00:03:08.530 And he grew up mostly in Braintree, Essex. Sources 00:03:08.530 --> 00:03:10.830 mention he has one older brother. Yeah, those 00:03:10.830 --> 00:03:12.509 early Essex roots are definitely part of the 00:03:12.509 --> 00:03:15.810 story. But his first sort of serious musical 00:03:15.810 --> 00:03:19.509 venture kicks off while he's still local. Back 00:03:19.509 --> 00:03:22.469 in 1996, attending Notley High School, he formed 00:03:22.469 --> 00:03:26.039 a band called Jellico. Jellico. Okay. Did they 00:03:26.039 --> 00:03:28.180 do much? They were pretty active, actually. They 00:03:28.180 --> 00:03:31.360 released one studio album, apparently. But like 00:03:31.360 --> 00:03:33.360 a lot of school bands, it ran its course. They 00:03:33.360 --> 00:03:35.740 split up around 2001. And that breakup seems 00:03:35.740 --> 00:03:37.800 to be the catalyst, right? That's when he makes 00:03:37.800 --> 00:03:40.300 the move. Leaves Essex, heads for North London. 00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:42.900 Exactly. A classic move, leaving the hometown 00:03:42.900 --> 00:03:46.340 for the cultural hub of the capital, seeking 00:03:46.340 --> 00:03:48.719 something more. But it wasn't instant transformation 00:03:48.719 --> 00:03:51.479 into beans on toast, was it? There's a bit of 00:03:51.479 --> 00:03:53.699 a gap, about four years seems like, where Jay 00:03:53.699 --> 00:03:56.479 McAllister is just... Developing, maybe? Before 00:03:56.479 --> 00:03:59.159 that stage name, Beans on Toast properly surfaces 00:03:59.159 --> 00:04:02.199 in 2005. Right. And this is where the environment 00:04:02.199 --> 00:04:04.659 becomes just fundamentally important in shaping 00:04:04.659 --> 00:04:07.900 the art, the whole persona. The sources point 00:04:07.900 --> 00:04:11.180 again and again to one specific place as his 00:04:11.180 --> 00:04:14.819 kind of ground zero. Which place was that? The 00:04:14.819 --> 00:04:18.139 Holloway Road Pub? Nambuka? Nambuka! I've heard 00:04:18.139 --> 00:04:20.680 of it. Known for live music, right? Very much 00:04:20.680 --> 00:04:22.959 so. And crucially, it wasn't just where he played 00:04:22.959 --> 00:04:25.379 gigs. He actually lived and worked there at the 00:04:25.379 --> 00:04:28.560 time. So he was completely immersed in that scene, 00:04:28.639 --> 00:04:31.819 that very specific hyperlocal grassroots music 00:04:31.819 --> 00:04:35.199 environment. That proximity, living and working 00:04:35.199 --> 00:04:38.360 where you perform, that must have a huge impact. 00:04:38.560 --> 00:04:40.519 Your audience isn't just, you know, anonymous 00:04:40.519 --> 00:04:43.199 faces in the dark. It's your mates, the regulars 00:04:43.199 --> 00:04:45.579 you serve drinks to, your colleagues. Precisely. 00:04:45.829 --> 00:04:47.889 And you can almost hear it in his style, can't 00:04:47.889 --> 00:04:50.449 you? That conversational, witty, very direct, 00:04:50.569 --> 00:04:52.889 often quite funny approach. It wasn't cooked 00:04:52.889 --> 00:04:55.089 up in some isolated studio somewhere. No, it 00:04:55.089 --> 00:04:56.910 feels like it was forged right there. Interacting 00:04:56.910 --> 00:04:59.269 with people, maybe trying out lines while pulling 00:04:59.269 --> 00:05:01.910 a pint. I think that's exactly right. And it 00:05:01.910 --> 00:05:04.029 connects so directly to that anti -folk genre 00:05:04.029 --> 00:05:05.970 we mentioned earlier. Maybe we should unpack 00:05:05.970 --> 00:05:08.189 that term a little. Yeah, good idea, because 00:05:08.189 --> 00:05:11.750 it seems central to who he is as an artist. What 00:05:11.750 --> 00:05:14.589 exactly is anti -folk? Well, it basically started 00:05:14.589 --> 00:05:17.850 as a reaction against the sort of perceived seriousness 00:05:17.850 --> 00:05:21.529 and sometimes overly polished presentation of 00:05:21.529 --> 00:05:23.649 the traditional folk scene, particularly in the 00:05:23.649 --> 00:05:25.730 U .S., Greenwich Village originally. Okay, so 00:05:25.730 --> 00:05:28.930 anti -seriousness. In a way, yeah. It embraces 00:05:28.930 --> 00:05:31.790 lo -fi recording aesthetics, sometimes a bit 00:05:31.790 --> 00:05:34.449 of punk energy or attitude, definitely comedic 00:05:34.449 --> 00:05:37.779 timing. And the lyrics are often fiercely political 00:05:37.779 --> 00:05:40.339 or just very conversational, almost like diary 00:05:40.339 --> 00:05:42.620 entries. And the performance style? Deliberately 00:05:42.620 --> 00:05:45.360 casual. Sometimes feels a bit shambolic, maybe 00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:47.779 rough around the edges, but intentionally so. 00:05:48.319 --> 00:05:51.180 It creates this feeling of a shared secret, almost, 00:05:51.279 --> 00:05:53.800 between the artist and the audience. Very intimate, 00:05:53.879 --> 00:05:56.509 even when it's being loud or funny. So Nambuka, 00:05:56.670 --> 00:05:58.930 his home base. It was the perfect Petri dish 00:05:58.930 --> 00:06:01.089 for that anti -folk style then. Absolutely perfect. 00:06:01.310 --> 00:06:03.149 He could write a song about something that happened 00:06:03.149 --> 00:06:05.149 that day or some political event and probably 00:06:05.149 --> 00:06:07.310 play it that night. Test it out immediately in 00:06:07.310 --> 00:06:09.250 front of a live, very engaged crowd. Getting 00:06:09.250 --> 00:06:12.629 instant feedback. Exactly. It fostered that authenticity 00:06:12.629 --> 00:06:15.009 and immediacy that would later become the hallmark 00:06:15.009 --> 00:06:18.089 of his yearly albums. The Nambuka era really 00:06:18.089 --> 00:06:21.189 cemented... That the raw performance, the story 00:06:21.189 --> 00:06:23.209 being told, and that connection with the audience, 00:06:23.410 --> 00:06:26.430 that was way more important than chasing some 00:06:26.430 --> 00:06:29.670 kind of studio perfection. And that anti -establishment 00:06:29.670 --> 00:06:32.189 vibe coupled with the humor at the comedy rock 00:06:32.189 --> 00:06:34.730 side means he can tackle quite heavy subjects, 00:06:34.949 --> 00:06:38.329 can't he? Politics, social issues, environmentalism. 00:06:38.490 --> 00:06:40.589 Yeah, but without ever sounding like he's preaching 00:06:40.589 --> 00:06:42.790 from a soapbox. He delivers it with a bit of 00:06:42.790 --> 00:06:45.689 a wink, a wry observation. Like a chat you'd 00:06:45.689 --> 00:06:47.550 actually have down the pub. Which brings it full 00:06:47.550 --> 00:06:50.689 circle back to Nambuca. That grounding was essential. 00:06:50.810 --> 00:06:52.990 It allowed him to take that very local success 00:06:52.990 --> 00:06:55.170 and start translating it into something much 00:06:55.170 --> 00:06:57.930 bigger. A national, even international presence 00:06:57.930 --> 00:07:00.540 eventually. Right. So he's honed this unique 00:07:00.540 --> 00:07:03.500 conversational anti -folk style right there in 00:07:03.500 --> 00:07:06.199 the crucible of Nambuka. The next big question 00:07:06.199 --> 00:07:08.699 then is how do you take that intimacy, that very 00:07:08.699 --> 00:07:11.180 specific vibe, and scale it up? How do you maintain 00:07:11.180 --> 00:07:13.139 it year round? Well, that's where the tradition 00:07:13.139 --> 00:07:16.139 really starts to take hold, which brings us neatly 00:07:16.139 --> 00:07:19.319 into section two. The tradition takes hold looking 00:07:19.319 --> 00:07:21.660 at his early collaborations and key milestones, 00:07:22.000 --> 00:07:25.600 roughly from 2007 through to 2014. OK. And the 00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:27.720 first big sign that this was more than just a 00:07:27.720 --> 00:07:29.899 London pub act. I think it was his immediate 00:07:29.899 --> 00:07:32.920 embrace by the UK festival circuit. The sources 00:07:32.920 --> 00:07:35.339 make a big point of what they call the Glastonbury 00:07:35.339 --> 00:07:37.839 Guarantee. The Glastonbury Guarantee. What's 00:07:37.839 --> 00:07:40.379 that? Beans on Toast has played Glastonbury Festival 00:07:40.379 --> 00:07:44.980 every single year since 2007. Every year. Wow. 00:07:45.220 --> 00:07:48.220 That's incredible consistency in itself. Just 00:07:48.220 --> 00:07:50.240 getting booked that regularly for Glastonbury 00:07:50.240 --> 00:07:52.720 is huge. It is. And think about it from a business 00:07:52.720 --> 00:07:55.000 perspective, too. For an independent artist. 00:07:55.480 --> 00:07:57.879 Being a reliable perennial Glastonbury staple 00:07:57.879 --> 00:08:01.019 gives festival bookers enormous confidence. Yeah, 00:08:01.139 --> 00:08:03.079 they know exactly what they're getting. A solid 00:08:03.079 --> 00:08:05.259 draw, an engaging performer, someone who brings 00:08:05.259 --> 00:08:08.000 their own dedicated grassroots following. Exactly. 00:08:08.120 --> 00:08:10.680 It becomes this powerful calling card for negotiating 00:08:10.680 --> 00:08:13.620 slots on other festival stages, maintaining that 00:08:13.620 --> 00:08:16.259 crucial visibility year after year, even without 00:08:16.259 --> 00:08:18.579 necessarily having a massive radio hit single 00:08:18.579 --> 00:08:20.959 driving it. And did that festival presence translate 00:08:20.959 --> 00:08:23.560 into other opportunities quickly? It seems so. 00:08:23.879 --> 00:08:25.759 The validation came pretty fast with some high 00:08:25.759 --> 00:08:28.639 -profile support slots. As early as 2008, he 00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:31.420 was supporting Kate Nash. Oh, wow. She was huge 00:08:31.420 --> 00:08:33.799 around then. Where was that? At the Hammersmith 00:08:33.799 --> 00:08:36.519 Apollo in London. Hammersmith Apollo. Okay, that's 00:08:36.519 --> 00:08:39.000 a serious step up from a Holloway Road pub. That 00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:40.960 shows his appeal was already scaling rapidly. 00:08:41.000 --> 00:08:43.580 Definitely. And all this momentum, this growing 00:08:43.580 --> 00:08:45.980 reputation, it all kind of culminates in the 00:08:45.980 --> 00:08:48.580 actual start of the big tradition, the debut 00:08:48.580 --> 00:08:52.320 album. Standing on a chair. And it lands right 00:08:52.320 --> 00:08:55.580 on schedule. December 1st, 2009. Standing on 00:08:55.580 --> 00:08:57.580 a chair. But here's the bit that always gets 00:08:57.580 --> 00:08:59.340 me about that debut. It wasn't just a standard 00:08:59.340 --> 00:09:03.139 album, was it? No. No, it was audacious. A massive, 00:09:03.259 --> 00:09:07.000 sprawling 50 -track double album. 50 tracks for 00:09:07.000 --> 00:09:11.899 a debut. That's bold. It's incredibly bold. It 00:09:11.899 --> 00:09:14.360 wasn't a cautious first step into the recording 00:09:14.360 --> 00:09:18.019 world. It was like opening the floodgates. What 00:09:18.019 --> 00:09:20.580 kind of message does that send, releasing 50 00:09:20.580 --> 00:09:23.220 songs at once? Well, two things, I reckon. First, 00:09:23.440 --> 00:09:26.419 that he just had this overwhelming backlog of 00:09:26.419 --> 00:09:30.019 material, of ideas ready to go. And second, that 00:09:30.019 --> 00:09:32.940 he was prioritizing artistic freedom, that sheer 00:09:32.940 --> 00:09:35.980 breadth of expression over any kind of conventional, 00:09:36.120 --> 00:09:39.000 tightly curated album structure. You could argue 00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:41.860 maybe that much material risks, you know, uneven 00:09:41.860 --> 00:09:45.100 quality. You could, but I think the debut was 00:09:45.100 --> 00:09:47.639 designed to make a statement. to overwhelm you 00:09:47.639 --> 00:09:50.200 with personality and range. And crucially, he 00:09:50.200 --> 00:09:52.139 didn't just dump it out there himself. He got 00:09:52.139 --> 00:09:54.259 some serious names involved. Right. The production 00:09:54.259 --> 00:09:56.340 and features were pretty high profile for a debut 00:09:56.340 --> 00:09:58.600 like that. Very. It was produced by Ben Levitt. 00:09:58.620 --> 00:10:01.679 From Mumford & Sons. The very same. Which immediately 00:10:01.679 --> 00:10:04.179 placed him right in the middle of that huge folk 00:10:04.179 --> 00:10:06.250 revival scene that was happening then. And the 00:10:06.250 --> 00:10:08.549 album was packed with collaborators, too. Guest 00:10:08.549 --> 00:10:10.990 vocals from Frank Turner, from Amy the Great, 00:10:11.110 --> 00:10:12.970 members of the Holloways. So he was already plugged 00:10:12.970 --> 00:10:16.429 into a really strong network. Absolutely. That 00:10:16.429 --> 00:10:19.809 debut instantly solidified the community he was 00:10:19.809 --> 00:10:22.590 part of and would continue to rely on. And he 00:10:22.590 --> 00:10:25.970 kept the momentum going. 2010, right on time, 00:10:25.990 --> 00:10:27.950 comes the follow -up, Writing on the Wall. Who 00:10:27.950 --> 00:10:30.009 produced that one? He co -produced it with Ian 00:10:30.009 --> 00:10:32.649 Grimble, another respected name. And the sources 00:10:32.649 --> 00:10:34.490 stress that this wasn't just flying under the 00:10:34.490 --> 00:10:38.049 radar anymore. Critics were taking notice. Positive 00:10:38.049 --> 00:10:40.490 reviews in places like the Sunday Times, the 00:10:40.490 --> 00:10:43.090 Mirror. And radio play. Was he getting on air? 00:10:43.370 --> 00:10:46.730 Yeah, significantly. Getting spins on BBC 6 music, 00:10:46.970 --> 00:10:49.269 which makes sense, but also XFM, and even getting 00:10:49.269 --> 00:10:52.049 plays on the bigger BBC Radio 1 and Radio 2 networks. 00:10:52.289 --> 00:10:54.889 So the quality control was clearly there, even 00:10:54.889 --> 00:10:57.700 with that rapid annual pace. And that momentum 00:10:57.700 --> 00:10:59.460 seemed to carry through into the live scene, 00:10:59.559 --> 00:11:01.600 too, particularly within that sort of punk folk 00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:03.480 community. He was part of the West Way Round 00:11:03.480 --> 00:11:06.059 the UK tour. That's right. And that tour was 00:11:06.059 --> 00:11:08.539 quite notable, recognized as the first national 00:11:08.539 --> 00:11:10.899 tour made up entirely of bands associated with 00:11:10.899 --> 00:11:13.139 Strummerville. Ah, Strummerville. That's the 00:11:13.139 --> 00:11:15.159 charity set up in memory of Joe Strummer from 00:11:15.159 --> 00:11:17.610 The Clash, isn't it? Exactly. It supports grassroots 00:11:17.610 --> 00:11:20.389 projects, helps out musicians and artists who 00:11:20.389 --> 00:11:22.909 might not get opportunities otherwise, often 00:11:22.909 --> 00:11:25.730 those with that independent punk or folk spirit 00:11:25.730 --> 00:11:27.750 that Strummer embodied. So being part of that 00:11:27.750 --> 00:11:29.769 Strummerville scene really cements his credentials, 00:11:30.029 --> 00:11:32.509 doesn't it? Puts him firmly in that lineage of 00:11:32.509 --> 00:11:35.129 artists operating outside the purely commercial 00:11:35.129 --> 00:11:39.509 machine, focusing on message, community. Precisely. 00:11:39.649 --> 00:11:43.250 And speaking of community, that connection deepened 00:11:43.250 --> 00:11:46.519 hugely. with one figure in particular, Frank 00:11:46.519 --> 00:11:48.620 Turner. Yeah, you mentioned him earlier. How 00:11:48.620 --> 00:11:51.279 did that relationship develop? Well, in 2011, 00:11:51.539 --> 00:11:53.720 Frank Turner actually took over production duties 00:11:53.720 --> 00:11:55.820 for the third album, Trying to Tell the Truth. 00:11:56.000 --> 00:11:57.519 Okay, so they were working together directly 00:11:57.519 --> 00:12:00.200 in the studio. And that relationship wasn't just 00:12:00.200 --> 00:12:03.000 about making records. It became a massive vehicle 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:06.279 for scaling up Beans on Toast's audience. Exponentially, 00:12:06.419 --> 00:12:08.379 really. How so? The biggest breakthrough moment, 00:12:08.539 --> 00:12:12.450 arguably, came in April 2012. Beans on Toast 00:12:12.450 --> 00:12:14.950 was the support act for Frank Turner's massive 00:12:14.950 --> 00:12:17.610 sold out show at Wembley Arena. Wembley Arena. 00:12:17.769 --> 00:12:20.370 Wow. OK, that's that's the big leagues. It really 00:12:20.370 --> 00:12:22.690 is. And the contrast is almost funny when you 00:12:22.690 --> 00:12:24.549 think about it. You've got this guy who built 00:12:24.549 --> 00:12:27.149 his whole act in a small crowded pub delivering 00:12:27.149 --> 00:12:30.610 this raw, often hilarious antifolk. Yeah. Suddenly 00:12:30.610 --> 00:12:33.350 playing to thousands upon thousands of people 00:12:33.350 --> 00:12:36.679 in a huge arena. It was proof, I suppose, that 00:12:36.679 --> 00:12:39.600 his very intimate, very direct style could actually 00:12:39.600 --> 00:12:41.980 translate successfully onto the biggest stages. 00:12:42.299 --> 00:12:44.899 And did he keep the album schedule going through 00:12:44.899 --> 00:12:49.360 all this? Flawlessly. 2012, bang on time, bought 00:12:49.360 --> 00:12:52.169 Phishing for a thank you. Lee Smith and Jamie 00:12:52.169 --> 00:12:54.190 Lockhart handled production on that one. And 00:12:54.190 --> 00:12:56.450 his own headline shows were growing, too. Definitely. 00:12:56.549 --> 00:12:59.730 They kept climbing in scale. That period culminated 00:12:59.730 --> 00:13:02.370 in him headlining his own sold -out show at the 00:13:02.370 --> 00:13:05.029 Scala in Kings Cross, London. Scala's a decent 00:13:05.029 --> 00:13:07.350 -sized venue. It is. And they actually recorded 00:13:07.350 --> 00:13:09.509 that show and released it as the Live at Scala 00:13:09.509 --> 00:13:12.710 compilation album in 2013, a nice marker of his 00:13:12.710 --> 00:13:14.990 live success. And was the annual release strategy 00:13:14.990 --> 00:13:17.490 starting to show, like, actual chart results 00:13:17.490 --> 00:13:21.009 within his niche? It was. His fifth album, Giving 00:13:21.009 --> 00:13:23.110 Everything, which came out in 2013, actually 00:13:23.110 --> 00:13:25.429 cracked the top 10 of the iTunes singer -songwriter 00:13:25.429 --> 00:13:27.730 chart. Okay, so it proves the point, doesn't 00:13:27.730 --> 00:13:30.590 it? Far from diluting his impact, that constant 00:13:30.590 --> 00:13:33.230 presence, that yearly delivery was keeping him 00:13:33.230 --> 00:13:35.190 right at the forefront of people's minds within 00:13:35.190 --> 00:13:37.450 that dedicated audience. Absolutely. People knew 00:13:37.450 --> 00:13:39.590 to expect it. They anticipated it. Then 2014. 00:13:40.480 --> 00:13:42.679 That felt like another massive turning point, 00:13:42.740 --> 00:13:45.519 really scaling up the ambition and going international 00:13:45.519 --> 00:13:48.240 properly. What happened in 2014? Well, first 00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:50.759 off, he opened Frank Turner's entire UK stadium 00:13:50.759 --> 00:13:54.940 tour. Stadium tour, not arena, stadium. Stadiums. 00:13:55.139 --> 00:13:57.840 We're talking performing to an audience that 00:13:57.840 --> 00:14:00.539 sources estimate exceeded 100 ,000 people in 00:14:00.539 --> 00:14:03.250 just one week. That is just staggering exposure 00:14:03.250 --> 00:14:06.710 for what is at heart a folk artist. It's huge. 00:14:07.029 --> 00:14:09.830 And almost simultaneously, he made his first 00:14:09.830 --> 00:14:12.870 proper foray into the U .S. market. He embarked 00:14:12.870 --> 00:14:15.009 on his first American tour. Doing his own shows. 00:14:15.210 --> 00:14:17.149 Yeah, playing his own headline dates, but also 00:14:17.149 --> 00:14:19.370 doing support slots for the legendary Irish -American 00:14:19.370 --> 00:14:22.200 punk band, Flogging Molly. Flogging Molly. OK, 00:14:22.220 --> 00:14:24.299 that's interesting. Supporting stadium folk with 00:14:24.299 --> 00:14:27.220 Frank Turner in the UK and then supporting fiery 00:14:27.220 --> 00:14:30.100 Celtic punk with flogging Molly in the US. It 00:14:30.100 --> 00:14:32.240 really demonstrates the versatility baked into 00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:35.299 his anti -folk approach, doesn't it? He can slot 00:14:35.299 --> 00:14:37.820 in perfectly with the political rage and energy 00:14:37.820 --> 00:14:40.240 of punk, but also connect with the storytelling 00:14:40.240 --> 00:14:43.639 intimacy of folk. He moves between those worlds. 00:14:44.080 --> 00:14:46.080 Pretty seamlessly. It's quite a balancing act. 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:48.720 It is. And quite fittingly, the sources note 00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:51.519 that this really successful, expansive year was 00:14:51.519 --> 00:14:54.039 also marked by a special release for Record Store 00:14:54.039 --> 00:14:58.299 Day in April 2014. A limited edition 10 -inch 00:14:58.299 --> 00:15:01.080 vinyl called Best of Toast pressed on a vinyl. 00:15:01.460 --> 00:15:03.860 Acknowledging the growing back catalog. Exactly. 00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:06.460 And of course, that release preceded the sixth 00:15:06.460 --> 00:15:08.740 studio album right on schedule, December 1st, 00:15:08.740 --> 00:15:11.730 2014. The grand scheme of things. The rhythm 00:15:11.730 --> 00:15:13.909 was unbroken. Okay, so he's established the rhythm, 00:15:14.049 --> 00:15:16.309 he's scaled up massively, he's touring internationally. 00:15:16.690 --> 00:15:18.730 This is where it gets really interesting, I think. 00:15:19.009 --> 00:15:21.389 Section 3 covers what the sources frame as the 00:15:21.389 --> 00:15:24.110 creative evolution phase, roughly 2015 through 00:15:24.110 --> 00:15:27.429 to 2022. Yeah, and this period really showcases 00:15:27.429 --> 00:15:29.590 an incredible creative fluidity. It's defined 00:15:29.590 --> 00:15:33.029 by, well, proper global reach, a noticeable thematic 00:15:33.029 --> 00:15:35.269 maturing in his writing, and some pretty daring 00:15:35.269 --> 00:15:37.269 experiments with how he actually made the records. 00:15:37.690 --> 00:15:40.799 He really solidified that global road war. your 00:15:40.799 --> 00:15:43.059 status around 2015, didn't he? Oh, absolutely. 00:15:43.240 --> 00:15:47.039 Touring relentlessly. UK, US, Netherlands, Germany, 00:15:47.279 --> 00:15:50.100 even South America, just constantly on the move. 00:15:51.299 --> 00:15:54.019 But what's interesting is, despite playing those 00:15:54.019 --> 00:15:56.700 huge stadium shows with Frank Turner, he didn't 00:15:56.700 --> 00:15:59.500 just abandon his roots. No. He specifically launched 00:15:59.500 --> 00:16:01.600 something called the Off the Road Tour around 00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:04.340 this time. And that focused entirely on playing 00:16:04.340 --> 00:16:08.059 smaller, more out -of -the -way UK venues. pubs 00:16:08.059 --> 00:16:11.799 small clubs community centers uh so consciously 00:16:11.799 --> 00:16:14.320 staying connected to that intimate grassroots 00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:16.460 audience where it all began even while doing 00:16:16.460 --> 00:16:18.700 massive tours exactly it's that balancing act 00:16:18.700 --> 00:16:21.159 again he's got this huge platform but he still 00:16:21.159 --> 00:16:23.240 prioritizes that close quarters connection it 00:16:23.240 --> 00:16:25.240 seems vital to his whole thing and this period 00:16:25.240 --> 00:16:28.120 also saw some big shifts in how he actually produced 00:16:28.120 --> 00:16:30.600 the albums right almost treating each year's 00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:32.620 record as a kind of experiment yeah definitely 00:16:32.620 --> 00:16:34.460 experimenting with the environment and even setting 00:16:34.460 --> 00:16:36.639 creative constraints for himself if you look 00:16:36.639 --> 00:16:39.169 at Rolling Up a Hill, the 2015 album. He recorded 00:16:39.169 --> 00:16:41.850 that one way over in Kansas, working with a band 00:16:41.850 --> 00:16:45.049 called Truck Stop Honeymoon. Kansas. That's a 00:16:45.049 --> 00:16:47.809 change from London or Essex. Right. Moving the 00:16:47.809 --> 00:16:49.789 whole recording process across the Atlantic, 00:16:49.929 --> 00:16:52.429 working with American musicians. You have to 00:16:52.429 --> 00:16:54.350 assume that injected a different flavor, maybe 00:16:54.350 --> 00:16:56.909 a bit more of a traditional rootsy American folk 00:16:56.909 --> 00:17:00.610 sound, perhaps, contrasting with his very British 00:17:00.610 --> 00:17:04.180 lyrical focus. Interesting. But then came the 00:17:04.180 --> 00:17:06.839 really radical departure production -wise. That 00:17:06.839 --> 00:17:10.720 was 2016, A Spanner in the Works. Ah, yes. The 00:17:10.720 --> 00:17:12.960 laptop album. Exactly. The sources make a big 00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:15.220 deal of this. The entire album was recorded basically 00:17:15.220 --> 00:17:17.960 over one weekend using just a standard laptop. 00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:20.740 That is just peak anti -folk commitment, isn't 00:17:20.740 --> 00:17:23.140 it? It's such an explicit rejection of needing 00:17:23.140 --> 00:17:26.099 high -cost studios, high -fidelity polish. It's 00:17:26.099 --> 00:17:28.220 all about the immediacy of the idea, the song, 00:17:28.299 --> 00:17:31.089 getting it down now. And he doubled down on the 00:17:31.089 --> 00:17:33.250 constraint, didn't he? With the instrumentation. 00:17:33.309 --> 00:17:36.410 He did. He made a specific choice. No guitar 00:17:36.410 --> 00:17:38.930 used anywhere on the album. Except, apparently, 00:17:39.130 --> 00:17:41.670 for one specific track called 2016. No guitar. 00:17:41.990 --> 00:17:43.930 For Beans on Toast. That's like his signature 00:17:43.930 --> 00:17:46.970 instrument. Exactly. It forced him into completely 00:17:46.970 --> 00:17:50.230 new musical territory. Without that familiar 00:17:50.230 --> 00:17:52.890 crutch of the acoustic guitar, he had to rely 00:17:52.890 --> 00:17:55.109 on different textures, different rhythms, keyboards, 00:17:55.390 --> 00:17:57.829 beats, whatever was available on the laptop to 00:17:57.829 --> 00:17:59.849 carry the songs and tell the stories. It's a 00:17:59.849 --> 00:18:02.470 brilliant way to keep the yearly release feeling 00:18:02.470 --> 00:18:04.970 fresh and creatively challenging for himself. 00:18:05.230 --> 00:18:07.230 It really suggests that the annual deadline doesn't 00:18:07.230 --> 00:18:11.200 lead to like... creative laziness or just repeating 00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:14.559 formulas, it actually forces innovation. I think 00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:16.440 that's a key takeaway. And around this time, 00:18:16.500 --> 00:18:18.900 he also started expanding his creative output 00:18:18.900 --> 00:18:21.559 beyond just music. He moved into writing books. 00:18:21.759 --> 00:18:23.720 Which makes perfect sense for such a natural 00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:27.859 storyteller. In 2018, he released his first book, 00:18:28.039 --> 00:18:30.730 Drunk Folk Stories. And it reads exactly how 00:18:30.730 --> 00:18:32.930 you'd imagine. Like a stage banter. Pretty much. 00:18:33.029 --> 00:18:35.509 It's a collection of 10 short true life stories, 00:18:35.670 --> 00:18:38.029 anecdotes about songwriting, life on the road, 00:18:38.150 --> 00:18:40.890 traveling, drinking, the stuff he talks about 00:18:40.890 --> 00:18:43.109 between songs and gigs. A very natural extension 00:18:43.109 --> 00:18:46.309 of the brand or persona. And he followed it up 00:18:46.309 --> 00:18:49.750 in 2021 with a second book, Foolhardy Folk Tales. 00:18:50.769 --> 00:18:53.210 This one showed... A bit more structural playfulness, 00:18:53.349 --> 00:18:56.170 actually. It opened with a fictional story, set 00:18:56.170 --> 00:18:58.470 back in his hometown of Braintree in the 90s, 00:18:58.490 --> 00:19:01.349 before moving back into the more familiar true 00:19:01.349 --> 00:19:03.369 tales from his travels. And didn't the second 00:19:03.369 --> 00:19:05.609 book have something else unusual in it? It did. 00:19:06.029 --> 00:19:09.049 Brilliantly. It included the full rules for a 00:19:09.049 --> 00:19:11.869 car game he apparently invented, called Everyone's 00:19:11.869 --> 00:19:15.130 a Critic. Huh. That's great. It just reinforces 00:19:15.130 --> 00:19:17.710 that whole idea that... His entire creative output, 00:19:17.930 --> 00:19:20.609 the music, the books, these little side things, 00:19:20.769 --> 00:19:23.309 it's all just an extension of his life, his conversations. 00:19:23.549 --> 00:19:26.130 He's translating that casual shared intimacy 00:19:26.130 --> 00:19:29.170 of the pub onto the page or into a game. Totally. 00:19:29.190 --> 00:19:32.630 And while he was expanding into books, his songwriting 00:19:32.630 --> 00:19:34.670 themes were also maturing quite dramatically 00:19:34.670 --> 00:19:37.190 on the albums. Oh, so? Well, his 10th studio 00:19:37.190 --> 00:19:40.730 album, A Bird in a Hand from 2E18, saw Ben Lovett 00:19:40.730 --> 00:19:43.019 return to the producer's chair. Ah, the producer 00:19:43.019 --> 00:19:45.359 of the debut, Full Circle. Right. And that album 00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:48.359 marked a really significant thematic shift. The 00:19:48.359 --> 00:19:50.420 lyrics focused very heavily on the birth of his 00:19:50.420 --> 00:19:52.839 newborn daughter. Okay, so moving from social 00:19:52.839 --> 00:19:55.259 commentary and road stories more towards... Towards 00:19:55.259 --> 00:19:59.180 family, love, the world immediately on your doorstep. 00:19:59.220 --> 00:20:01.920 It grounded the songs in a different way. And 00:20:01.920 --> 00:20:03.700 again, when you're forced to produce an album 00:20:03.700 --> 00:20:06.619 every year, those huge life events, like becoming 00:20:06.619 --> 00:20:09.220 a parent, they hit the discography almost immediately. 00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:11.490 There's no lag. That makes sense. Did the social 00:20:11.490 --> 00:20:13.329 commentary disappear altogether, though? Not 00:20:13.329 --> 00:20:15.950 at all. In 2019, he announced the next album, 00:20:16.150 --> 00:20:18.450 The Inevitable Trainwreck, alongside more big 00:20:18.450 --> 00:20:21.470 U .S. and U .K. tours. And the singles released 00:20:21.470 --> 00:20:24.289 ahead of that, like World Gone Crazy and England 00:20:24.289 --> 00:20:26.670 I Love You, showed that the sharp observations 00:20:26.670 --> 00:20:28.609 about the state of things were definitely still 00:20:28.609 --> 00:20:30.910 there, just maybe balanced now with that domestic 00:20:30.910 --> 00:20:33.349 perspective. Right. And then came the ultimate 00:20:33.349 --> 00:20:36.349 test, really, for his real -time journalistic 00:20:36.349 --> 00:20:39.289 approach to songwriting, the pandemic. 2020. 00:20:39.410 --> 00:20:41.569 Yeah. This is probably the absolute ultimate 00:20:41.569 --> 00:20:43.829 proof of concept for the whole annual release 00:20:43.829 --> 00:20:45.630 model, isn't it? Instead of just putting out 00:20:45.630 --> 00:20:47.589 one album, dealing with a disruption like everyone 00:20:47.589 --> 00:20:50.470 else, McAllister responded by releasing two albums 00:20:50.470 --> 00:20:52.569 on his 40th birthday that December. Two albums 00:20:52.569 --> 00:20:56.109 at once during lockdown. Two full albums. First, 00:20:56.269 --> 00:20:58.460 there was the unforeseeable future. And that 00:20:58.460 --> 00:21:00.759 was written and recorded entirely at home during 00:21:00.759 --> 00:21:03.200 lockdown, focusing directly on the COVID pandemic 00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:05.460 itself, the anxiety, the social upheaval, everything. 00:21:05.660 --> 00:21:07.880 Wow. Talk about immediate response. And then 00:21:07.880 --> 00:21:10.859 simultaneously, he also released Knee Deep in 00:21:10.859 --> 00:21:13.740 Nostalgia. That one was produced by Frank Turner. 00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:16.700 Maybe offering a bit of comfort or reflection 00:21:16.700 --> 00:21:19.500 alongside the rawness of the pandemic album. 00:21:19.619 --> 00:21:22.130 The timing of that. You just can't overstate 00:21:22.130 --> 00:21:24.250 the power of it. While loads of major artists 00:21:24.250 --> 00:21:25.930 were delaying their albums because they couldn't 00:21:25.930 --> 00:21:28.250 tour or maybe putting out pandemic related songs 00:21:28.250 --> 00:21:31.049 months, even a year later. He delivered this 00:21:31.049 --> 00:21:34.289 real time, almost visceral commentary on the 00:21:34.289 --> 00:21:37.049 crisis as it was unfolding. That's what makes 00:21:37.049 --> 00:21:39.289 his approach so different. He captures the zeitgeist, 00:21:39.309 --> 00:21:41.750 the feeling of the moment instantly. His albums 00:21:41.750 --> 00:21:44.089 become these historical artifacts of exactly 00:21:44.089 --> 00:21:46.609 what that year felt like. So after the intensity 00:21:46.609 --> 00:21:49.680 of the pandemic albums, what came next? Well, 00:21:49.859 --> 00:21:52.299 2021 brought survival of the friendliest. That 00:21:52.299 --> 00:21:54.460 one was produced by Blaine Harrison from the 00:21:54.460 --> 00:21:57.660 Mystery Jets. Ah, interesting choice. Yeah. And 00:21:57.660 --> 00:22:00.079 musically and thematically, it felt like an optimistic 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:03.839 counterpoint to the trauma of 2020. The focus 00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:07.160 shifted towards the beauty of the human spirit, 00:22:07.319 --> 00:22:09.920 finding joy, finding hope again. A necessary 00:22:09.920 --> 00:22:12.619 shift, probably. Probably. And that more optimistic 00:22:12.619 --> 00:22:15.420 tone clearly resonated. It led into a massive 00:22:15.420 --> 00:22:17.119 summer of touring where he played something like 00:22:17.119 --> 00:22:19.940 over 30 festivals. It showed that even after 00:22:19.940 --> 00:22:22.480 the lockdowns, his audience was still right there, 00:22:22.660 --> 00:22:26.160 fiercely loyal and eager for his take on things. 00:22:26.319 --> 00:22:29.160 And then 2022 saw another perhaps surprising 00:22:29.160 --> 00:22:33.000 but maybe logical. extension of his whole storytelling 00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:35.559 thing. The children's project. Yes. He collaborated 00:22:35.559 --> 00:22:38.480 with Jamie and Lily Adamsfield on the fascinating 00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:40.700 adventures of Little B. Was that just like a 00:22:40.700 --> 00:22:42.980 song or two? No, no. It was a whole big project, 00:22:43.059 --> 00:22:45.440 a proper box set containing 10 children's stories, 00:22:45.579 --> 00:22:47.819 accompanying songs. The stories were beautifully 00:22:47.819 --> 00:22:50.099 illustrated by Lily Adamsfield, apparently, and 00:22:50.099 --> 00:22:52.740 focused on this character, Little B, learning 00:22:52.740 --> 00:22:55.039 important life lessons. It makes sense, actually, 00:22:55.059 --> 00:22:57.900 if his whole thing is clear, accessible, honest 00:22:57.900 --> 00:23:00.579 storytelling. Why wouldn't that translate to 00:23:00.579 --> 00:23:03.200 children's media, especially now being a parent 00:23:03.200 --> 00:23:05.660 himself? Exactly. If you could talk honestly 00:23:05.660 --> 00:23:08.799 about politics or drinking or love or anxiety, 00:23:09.039 --> 00:23:11.619 you can definitely talk about kindness or sharing 00:23:11.619 --> 00:23:14.400 or whatever little B was learning about. It maintains 00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:16.940 that core identity, the approachable, honest 00:23:16.940 --> 00:23:20.420 narrator, just for a different audience. Which 00:23:20.420 --> 00:23:22.660 brings us then to section four, the scale of 00:23:22.660 --> 00:23:25.029 output. We need to really take stock of this 00:23:25.029 --> 00:23:26.730 discography because when you look at the sheer 00:23:26.730 --> 00:23:30.069 volume, that catalog consistency isn't just impressive. 00:23:30.430 --> 00:23:32.910 It's basically his defining feature, his whole 00:23:32.910 --> 00:23:35.269 business strategy, isn't it? It really is. It 00:23:35.269 --> 00:23:37.269 functions like, as we said, the annual almanac 00:23:37.269 --> 00:23:39.930 of Andy Folk. Just hearing the list read out 00:23:39.930 --> 00:23:41.869 gives you a sense of the relentless discipline 00:23:41.869 --> 00:23:43.750 involved. Okay, let's try and recap the main 00:23:43.750 --> 00:23:46.009 studio albums year by year from the start again. 00:23:46.230 --> 00:23:50.250 Right, so Standing on a Chair, 2009, then Writing 00:23:50.250 --> 00:23:52.920 on the Wall. 2010. Yeah. Trying to tell the truth. 00:23:53.359 --> 00:23:56.859 2011. Fishing for a thank you. 2012. Giving everything. 00:23:57.039 --> 00:23:59.579 2013. The grand scheme of things. 2014. Still 00:23:59.579 --> 00:24:01.720 going. Rolling up the hill. 2015. The laptop 00:24:01.720 --> 00:24:05.200 album. A spanner in the works. 2016. 2017. The 00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:07.400 family focused one. A bird in the hand. 2018. 00:24:07.640 --> 00:24:11.200 The inevitable train wreck. 2019. Then the 2020 00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:14.140 double whammy. Yep. Knee deep in nostalgia 80. 00:24:14.220 --> 00:24:16.819 The unforeseeable future. Followed by the optimistic 00:24:16.819 --> 00:24:20.279 turn, Survival the Friendliest 2021, and then 00:24:20.279 --> 00:24:24.039 the Toothpaste and the Tube in 2023. Acknowledging 00:24:24.039 --> 00:24:27.079 Little B in 2022 was a major, slightly different 00:24:27.079 --> 00:24:30.240 output. That is an incredible run. 15 years, 00:24:30.420 --> 00:24:33.160 15 or 16, depending how you count 2020, major 00:24:33.160 --> 00:24:35.700 releases. And the sources suggest the machine 00:24:35.700 --> 00:24:38.400 isn't slowing down either. Not at all. They even 00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:40.660 project future titles anticipating wild goose 00:24:40.660 --> 00:24:44.059 chasers likely for December 2024 and maybe kill 00:24:44.059 --> 00:24:46.920 them with kindness in 2025. This tradition, it's 00:24:46.920 --> 00:24:49.279 clearly moved way beyond being just a novelty 00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:51.799 or a gimmick. It's become this sustainable, perpetual, 00:24:51.980 --> 00:24:54.319 creative engine that he's built and, well, locked 00:24:54.319 --> 00:24:56.740 himself into. Let's dig into the mechanics of 00:24:56.740 --> 00:24:59.279 that consistency from a sort of business angle. 00:24:59.339 --> 00:25:01.819 You mentioned the typical major label album cycle 00:25:01.819 --> 00:25:04.200 takes, what, two, three years sometimes? Easily. 00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:06.819 Sometimes longer. You've got lengthy recording, 00:25:07.140 --> 00:25:10.220 mixing, mastering processes. Then you need to 00:25:10.220 --> 00:25:12.500 secure radio promotion slots months in advance, 00:25:12.740 --> 00:25:15.900 plan a huge marketing campaign, then launch a 00:25:15.900 --> 00:25:18.079 massive world tour to support it all. It's a 00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:20.680 huge, expensive, slow -moving machine. Whereas 00:25:20.680 --> 00:25:24.140 Beans on Toast, he kind of bypasses a lot of 00:25:24.140 --> 00:25:26.680 that. Pretty much. His annual release schedule 00:25:26.680 --> 00:25:29.539 creates its own built -in anticipation. The audience 00:25:29.539 --> 00:25:32.119 knows the December 1st delivery is coming. So 00:25:32.119 --> 00:25:34.640 a huge chunk of the marketing work is done just 00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:36.680 by sticking to the calendar. That predictability 00:25:36.680 --> 00:25:39.319 is gold. And presumably lower production costs, 00:25:39.380 --> 00:25:41.579 too, especially if you're recording albums on 00:25:41.579 --> 00:25:44.759 a laptop or relatively quickly compared to those 00:25:44.759 --> 00:25:47.259 multi -year major label projects. Absolutely. 00:25:47.319 --> 00:25:51.079 A much quicker path from idea to market. He minimizes 00:25:51.079 --> 00:25:53.279 the massive financial risk associated with a 00:25:53.279 --> 00:25:56.140 huge two -year album gamble by providing these 00:25:56.140 --> 00:25:58.700 smaller but constant injections of new material 00:25:58.700 --> 00:26:00.559 for his audience. Keeps the connection fresh. 00:26:00.920 --> 00:26:03.599 Exactly. And while those main studio albums are 00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:06.140 the core engine driving everything, the sources 00:26:06.140 --> 00:26:08.259 also remind us there's this constant stream of 00:26:08.259 --> 00:26:10.180 other projects that keep him visible in between. 00:26:10.619 --> 00:26:12.980 Right, the non -studio stuff, like compilations. 00:26:12.980 --> 00:26:15.059 Yeah, things like the early Rock Against Malaria 00:26:15.059 --> 00:26:17.940 benefit compilation he was on back in 2009. The 00:26:17.940 --> 00:26:21.180 Live at Scala album from 2013 captured that live 00:26:21.180 --> 00:26:24.700 energy. And that best of toast. pressed on vinyl 00:26:24.700 --> 00:26:28.019 for record store day in 2014 served as a kind 00:26:28.019 --> 00:26:30.640 of marker a mini retrospective even then and 00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:32.539 collaborations too like that christmas single 00:26:32.539 --> 00:26:35.000 oh yeah that was a nice touch this christmas 00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:37.980 released in december 2015 was a one -off collaboration 00:26:37.980 --> 00:26:41.339 with the band skinny lister just shows he's constantly 00:26:41.339 --> 00:26:43.779 active engaging with other artists in the scene 00:26:43.779 --> 00:26:46.119 even while juggling the pressure of that self 00:26:46.119 --> 00:26:48.630 -imposed yearly deadline for his own album So 00:26:48.630 --> 00:26:50.970 the overall analysis really has to come back 00:26:50.970 --> 00:26:53.250 to that kind of journalistic function of this 00:26:53.250 --> 00:26:55.890 whole method, doesn't it? I think so. While other 00:26:55.890 --> 00:26:57.750 artists might spend years honing a particular 00:26:57.750 --> 00:27:00.869 sound or theme in isolation, McAllister is out 00:27:00.869 --> 00:27:02.990 there delivering almost immediate social commentary. 00:27:03.289 --> 00:27:06.009 If there's a major political upheaval, a big 00:27:06.009 --> 00:27:09.289 social movement, a global event, you can pretty 00:27:09.289 --> 00:27:11.329 much guarantee that the album he releases that 00:27:11.329 --> 00:27:14.549 December will engage with it directly. The Pandemic 00:27:14.549 --> 00:27:17.680 albums are the starkest example, obviously. Revisiting 00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:21.220 the unforeseeable future from 2020. It wasn't 00:27:21.220 --> 00:27:23.880 a look back at COVID months later. It was a snapshot 00:27:23.880 --> 00:27:26.559 from inside the lockdown, capturing that specific 00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:30.079 anxiety and uncertainty in real time. And that 00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:32.539 immediacy maintains the feeling that began way 00:27:32.539 --> 00:27:34.579 back in Nambuca, doesn't it? That feeling of 00:27:34.579 --> 00:27:38.039 intimacy, of conversation. He's speaking directly 00:27:38.039 --> 00:27:40.220 to his audience about the things they are all 00:27:40.220 --> 00:27:43.609 experiencing right here, right now. It creates 00:27:43.609 --> 00:27:45.750 a very different kind of bond with the listener, 00:27:45.829 --> 00:27:48.150 I imagine. Each album isn't just music. It's 00:27:48.150 --> 00:27:50.650 like an accurate timestamp of his life and the 00:27:50.650 --> 00:27:53.170 wider world at that specific moment. Exactly. 00:27:53.210 --> 00:27:55.490 The output feels constantly relevant, constantly 00:27:55.490 --> 00:27:58.369 alive, which is a sharp contrast to those long, 00:27:58.390 --> 00:28:00.750 heavily curated mainstream album cycles that 00:28:00.750 --> 00:28:02.750 can sometimes feel a bit detached from current 00:28:02.750 --> 00:28:05.210 events by the time they actually land. For Beans 00:28:05.210 --> 00:28:07.230 on Toast, December 1st isn't just his birthday. 00:28:07.630 --> 00:28:10.089 It's the deadline, the necessary, inevitable 00:28:10.089 --> 00:28:12.730 deadline for that year's creative synthesis. 00:28:13.529 --> 00:28:16.230 So... Let's try and pull this all together. What 00:28:16.230 --> 00:28:19.329 does this unique career trajectory mean for you, 00:28:19.490 --> 00:28:21.829 the listener? And maybe for anyone interested 00:28:21.829 --> 00:28:24.410 in alternative ways of building a creative career, 00:28:24.690 --> 00:28:27.710 we've traced this fascinating arc of Jay McAllister. 00:28:28.009 --> 00:28:30.150 Yeah, starting with forming Jellicoe back in 00:28:30.150 --> 00:28:32.849 Braintree, the key move to North London, and 00:28:32.849 --> 00:28:35.569 then establishing that essential authentic beans 00:28:35.569 --> 00:28:38.730 on toast persona while literally living and working 00:28:38.730 --> 00:28:41.349 at Nambucca. His whole path feels like a blueprint 00:28:41.349 --> 00:28:44.190 for artistic independence, doesn't it? He achieved 00:28:44.190 --> 00:28:46.809 global reach but fueled it with this unravering 00:28:46.809 --> 00:28:49.509 commitment to a grassroots ethos. Absolutely. 00:28:49.789 --> 00:28:52.630 Master the local scene first, then scale up, 00:28:52.710 --> 00:28:55.029 but use your network. Use those key friendships 00:28:55.029 --> 00:28:57.369 like with Frank Turner. Solidify your place as 00:28:57.369 --> 00:28:59.230 a reliable fixture that Glastonbury guarantee 00:28:59.230 --> 00:29:02.670 is huge. And do it all while refusing to compromise 00:29:02.670 --> 00:29:05.130 on your core creative demand, which in his case 00:29:05.130 --> 00:29:07.630 is that prolific annual output. And his core 00:29:07.630 --> 00:29:10.869 identity. It's built on that really unique blend. 00:29:10.970 --> 00:29:13.849 It's folk, definitely, but with that punk spirit, 00:29:13.990 --> 00:29:17.190 that anti -folk edge, and crucially, the comedy 00:29:17.190 --> 00:29:20.390 rock element that makes it so approachable. His 00:29:20.390 --> 00:29:23.009 prominence, particularly in the UK folk and festival 00:29:23.009 --> 00:29:25.630 scenes, it's fundamentally built on that sheer 00:29:25.630 --> 00:29:28.789 discipline. The audacity, really, of sticking 00:29:28.789 --> 00:29:31.630 to that annual commitment for so long. He's basically 00:29:31.630 --> 00:29:34.849 proven that volume, when it's driven by relevance 00:29:34.849 --> 00:29:37.150 and genuine honesty, can actually be your most 00:29:37.150 --> 00:29:39.490 effective marketing tool. He's a real testament 00:29:39.490 --> 00:29:42.009 to sustained, timely creative discipline. And 00:29:42.009 --> 00:29:44.569 he kept evolving, didn't he? Constantly diversifying 00:29:44.569 --> 00:29:46.289 how he made the record's high profile studios 00:29:46.289 --> 00:29:49.609 one year, a laptop the next, expanding into books, 00:29:49.670 --> 00:29:52.250 even children's media. He uses that self -imposed 00:29:52.250 --> 00:29:53.970 deadline almost like a creative weapon, you know, 00:29:53.970 --> 00:29:56.210 forcing himself to constantly evolve, react, 00:29:56.410 --> 00:29:58.349 try something new rather than getting stuck in 00:29:58.349 --> 00:30:00.549 a rut. So ultimately, the question his career 00:30:00.549 --> 00:30:03.049 poses, maybe to every creative person listening, 00:30:03.210 --> 00:30:06.309 is about endurance, about commitment. What does 00:30:06.309 --> 00:30:09.630 consistently releasing new quality and thematically 00:30:09.630 --> 00:30:12.150 relevant content year after year after year actually 00:30:12.150 --> 00:30:14.430 teach us about sustained creative discipline, 00:30:14.650 --> 00:30:17.130 especially when compared to the standard industry 00:30:17.130 --> 00:30:19.809 model of taking multiple years between projects. 00:30:20.130 --> 00:30:22.490 It raises that fundamental question for you to 00:30:22.490 --> 00:30:25.029 think about, doesn't it? Does the sheer urgency 00:30:25.029 --> 00:30:28.609 of an annual deadline actually elevate the creative 00:30:28.609 --> 00:30:31.529 process? Does it force a more immediate, maybe 00:30:31.529 --> 00:30:35.690 a roar, more honest response? Or does that constant 00:30:35.690 --> 00:30:38.660 pressure risk? compromising the deeper, more 00:30:38.660 --> 00:30:41.319 reflective curation that maybe those longer cycles 00:30:41.319 --> 00:30:44.039 allow for. It's a fascinating tension. It really 00:30:44.039 --> 00:30:45.880 is. And we'd encourage you, if you're curious, 00:30:45.980 --> 00:30:48.299 to really explore the thematic extremes within 00:30:48.299 --> 00:30:50.579 his discography. Go listen to some of the early 00:30:50.579 --> 00:30:52.700 albums full of those travel tales and pub stories 00:30:52.700 --> 00:30:54.920 and then compare them to the deeply personal 00:30:54.920 --> 00:30:57.880 family focus of A Bird in the Hand. Or contrast 00:30:57.880 --> 00:31:00.960 the almost journalistic speed of The Unforeseeable 00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:04.029 Future. capturing the pandemic moment with something 00:31:04.029 --> 00:31:07.410 else entirely. Exactly. Do that, and you'll really 00:31:07.410 --> 00:31:10.150 start to grasp the incredible depth and range 00:31:10.150 --> 00:31:12.769 he's achieved, all within this remarkably high 00:31:12.769 --> 00:31:15.410 -velocity creative framework. It leaves you with 00:31:15.410 --> 00:31:18.069 a final thought, perhaps. What could you achieve 00:31:18.069 --> 00:31:20.049 if you treated your own creative output less 00:31:20.049 --> 00:31:22.470 like a precious occasional event and more like, 00:31:22.490 --> 00:31:24.269 well, like a mandatory annual almanac?