WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.160 Welcome back to The Deep Dive. This is where 00:00:02.160 --> 00:00:04.839 we try to give you that intellectual shortcut, 00:00:05.160 --> 00:00:07.299 digging into figures who've really shaped our 00:00:07.299 --> 00:00:10.779 world. And today, we're tackling someone truly 00:00:10.779 --> 00:00:14.919 massive, William Henry Gates III, Bill Gates. 00:00:15.240 --> 00:00:18.260 Yeah, I mean, his life story. It's like three 00:00:18.260 --> 00:00:20.800 different epics rolled into one, isn't it? Trying 00:00:20.800 --> 00:00:23.199 to synthesize it all is, well, it's a challenge. 00:00:23.399 --> 00:00:25.620 It really is. You've got the software revolutionary, 00:00:25.859 --> 00:00:28.899 the guy who basically defined the PC era. Then 00:00:28.899 --> 00:00:31.120 there's the corporate architect. Yeah. Bolding 00:00:31.120 --> 00:00:33.039 one of history's biggest monopolies. And then. 00:00:33.520 --> 00:00:36.159 The global philanthropist committing, what is 00:00:36.159 --> 00:00:39.380 it now, over $100 billion to tackling these huge 00:00:39.380 --> 00:00:42.500 global problems. It's just staggering. It is. 00:00:42.560 --> 00:00:45.219 So our mission today, yours and mine, is to get 00:00:45.219 --> 00:00:47.240 past the usual headlines. We want to understand 00:00:47.240 --> 00:00:49.500 the choices he made, the levers he pulled to 00:00:49.500 --> 00:00:51.479 get that kind of influence. Right. And the scale 00:00:51.479 --> 00:00:53.840 we're talking about. Yeah. Youngest self -made 00:00:53.840 --> 00:00:56.520 billionaire at 31. That was 1987. Just think 00:00:56.520 --> 00:00:58.740 about that. And holding that title, world's wealthiest 00:00:58.740 --> 00:01:01.780 person for what, 18 of the 24 years between 95 00:01:01.780 --> 00:01:04.680 and 2017? Yeah, just dominated it. And even though 00:01:04.680 --> 00:01:07.120 he's stepped back from the day -to -day at Microsoft, 00:01:07.239 --> 00:01:10.620 that influence, that private power, it's still 00:01:10.620 --> 00:01:14.420 immense. Still up there. As of like mid -2025, 00:01:14.599 --> 00:01:17.260 his net worth is hovering around $115 billion. 00:01:17.959 --> 00:01:21.280 Still 13th richest globally. Yeah, we need to 00:01:21.280 --> 00:01:24.390 trace that path. From that early competitive 00:01:24.390 --> 00:01:26.689 streak. Right. All the way to the IBM deal, which 00:01:26.689 --> 00:01:29.290 was just pivotal. Definitely. And then Microsoft's 00:01:29.290 --> 00:01:32.950 culture, the management style, the antitrust 00:01:32.950 --> 00:01:34.469 battles. Yeah, those were huge. And then the 00:01:34.469 --> 00:01:37.390 massive shift, the pivot to philanthropy, global 00:01:37.390 --> 00:01:39.959 health. Climate change. Right down to things 00:01:39.959 --> 00:01:42.500 like his recent political donations, his land 00:01:42.500 --> 00:01:45.099 ownership. It's a huge canvas. It really is. 00:01:45.319 --> 00:01:47.340 OK, let's dive in. Where do we start? Seattle, 00:01:47.480 --> 00:01:51.400 1955. Exactly. William Henry Gates III. Trey, 00:01:51.579 --> 00:01:53.680 they call him. And the sources, they all point 00:01:53.680 --> 00:01:56.219 to one thing, that competitive fire. It started 00:01:56.219 --> 00:01:58.140 at home. It wasn't learned later. Yeah, you read 00:01:58.140 --> 00:01:59.879 about his family. I mean, talk about high achievers. 00:01:59.920 --> 00:02:02.359 Father, a prominent lawyer, grandfather, a bank 00:02:02.359 --> 00:02:04.840 president. And his mother, Mary Maxwell Gates, 00:02:05.019 --> 00:02:08.000 was incredibly influential. on the board of First 00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:11.360 Interstate Bank United Way, a major figure in 00:02:11.360 --> 00:02:14.479 Seattle. And the home environment itself. Yeah. 00:02:14.539 --> 00:02:16.360 Sounds like everything was a competition. Playing 00:02:16.360 --> 00:02:19.080 cards, pickleball. Even swimming to the dock. 00:02:19.099 --> 00:02:21.219 There were rewards for winning, penalties for 00:02:21.219 --> 00:02:24.319 losing. It was structured competition ingrained 00:02:24.319 --> 00:02:27.780 from day one. So that idea, win or lose, was 00:02:27.780 --> 00:02:30.400 just baked in. Absolutely. It seems like it taught 00:02:30.400 --> 00:02:32.620 him this intense focus. If you're going to play, 00:02:32.680 --> 00:02:35.270 you play to win. Full stop. His parents apparently 00:02:35.270 --> 00:02:38.530 wanted him to go into law, follow that traditional 00:02:38.530 --> 00:02:41.590 path. Right. But he found, let's say, a different 00:02:41.590 --> 00:02:44.409 outlet for that intensity at Leakside Prep School 00:02:44.409 --> 00:02:47.449 around age 13. And this is where the story gets 00:02:47.449 --> 00:02:49.969 that almost accidental twist involving the Mother's 00:02:49.969 --> 00:02:52.050 Club. It's incredible, isn't it? They held a 00:02:52.050 --> 00:02:55.009 rummage sale, raised money. And bought a teletype 00:02:55.009 --> 00:02:58.590 Model 33 terminal, hooked up to a GE mainframe 00:02:58.590 --> 00:03:00.830 somewhere. And for young Gates, this machine 00:03:00.830 --> 00:03:03.460 was just... Perfect logic. He was apparently 00:03:03.460 --> 00:03:05.939 fascinated by how it executed code flawlessly 00:03:05.939 --> 00:03:10.000 every single time. A stark contrast to, you know, 00:03:10.020 --> 00:03:13.060 messy human interactions or the nuances of law 00:03:13.060 --> 00:03:15.539 his dad dealt with. Precisely. And he just dove 00:03:15.539 --> 00:03:18.500 in, got obsessed. They even excused him from 00:03:18.500 --> 00:03:20.759 math class so he could program in BASIC. Writing 00:03:20.759 --> 00:03:24.840 his first program? Tic -tac -toe. But that curiosity, 00:03:24.960 --> 00:03:26.840 it quickly turned into something else, didn't 00:03:26.840 --> 00:03:29.139 it? He wanted more computer time. Always more. 00:03:29.560 --> 00:03:31.819 He and his friends, Paul Allen included, figured 00:03:31.819 --> 00:03:34.840 out how to exploit bugs in the system used by 00:03:34.840 --> 00:03:37.360 the computer center corporation, the CCC. Basically 00:03:37.360 --> 00:03:39.800 hacking the system to get free time. Exactly. 00:03:39.819 --> 00:03:42.560 They got caught, got banned. But here's the crucial 00:03:42.560 --> 00:03:44.659 part. The pivot. Right. Instead of just being 00:03:44.659 --> 00:03:47.599 banned. They went back, formed the Lakeside Programmers 00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:50.669 Club and made CCC an offer. We'll find the bugs 00:03:50.669 --> 00:03:52.610 in your software. Give us unlimited computer 00:03:52.610 --> 00:03:54.949 time. Brilliant, really. Absolutely brilliant. 00:03:55.030 --> 00:03:58.590 Because that deal gave Gates access. Access to 00:03:58.590 --> 00:04:01.569 study sophisticated source code, Fortran, Lisp, 00:04:01.590 --> 00:04:04.449 machine language. He got this deep systems level 00:04:04.449 --> 00:04:06.930 understanding that most kids just didn't have. 00:04:07.210 --> 00:04:09.689 So even before college, he's not just a coder. 00:04:09.849 --> 00:04:12.090 He's a systems thinker who knows how to leverage 00:04:12.090 --> 00:04:14.530 technical skill. And that led to their first 00:04:14.530 --> 00:04:17.730 real venture, TrafoData, with Paul Allen. Building 00:04:17.730 --> 00:04:21.329 traffic counters using Intel 808 chips. Still 00:04:21.329 --> 00:04:23.250 teenagers. It's just relentless application. 00:04:23.750 --> 00:04:27.290 Then comes Harvard, 1973. Scores almost perfect 00:04:27.290 --> 00:04:30.509 on the SATs. 1590 out of 1600. Yeah, clearly 00:04:30.509 --> 00:04:32.910 brilliant academically. Met Steve Ballmer there, 00:04:33.069 --> 00:04:35.870 future Microsoft CEO. But even at Harvard, he 00:04:35.870 --> 00:04:38.250 wasn't just coding. Ah, the pancake sorting algorithm. 00:04:38.610 --> 00:04:40.269 We have to talk about this for a second. It sounds 00:04:40.269 --> 00:04:42.569 obscure. It is a bit, yeah. It's a problem in 00:04:42.569 --> 00:04:45.009 combinatorics about sorting a stack of different 00:04:45.009 --> 00:04:47.069 sized pancakes with the minimum number of flips 00:04:47.069 --> 00:04:50.230 using a spatula. Okay. But the point is his solution 00:04:50.230 --> 00:04:53.589 worked out in a class was so efficient it remained 00:04:53.589 --> 00:04:56.230 the best published solution for over 30 years. 00:04:56.310 --> 00:04:58.310 Wow. So that tells you something about how his 00:04:58.310 --> 00:05:00.430 mind works, doesn't it? It's not just software. 00:05:00.470 --> 00:05:04.220 It's abstract problem solving optimization. Seeing 00:05:04.220 --> 00:05:06.439 patterns. Exactly. That same intensity, that 00:05:06.439 --> 00:05:09.019 drive to find the absolute optimal solution. 00:05:09.220 --> 00:05:12.240 You see it applied later to business, to strategy, 00:05:12.379 --> 00:05:15.360 even to global health problems. Pure analytical 00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:17.879 power. But Harvard wasn't the end game. 1975 00:05:17.879 --> 00:05:21.160 rolls around. And the January issue of Popular 00:05:21.160 --> 00:05:24.259 Electronics hits the newsstands. Featuring the 00:05:24.259 --> 00:05:28.240 Emite's Altair 8800 microcomputer kit. The spark. 00:05:28.500 --> 00:05:31.899 That was it. Gates sees it. Allen sees it. They 00:05:31.899 --> 00:05:34.319 realize the hardware is finally here for personal 00:05:34.319 --> 00:05:38.379 computing. But it needs software. Desperately 00:05:38.379 --> 00:05:41.139 needs software. So he takes what he later called 00:05:41.139 --> 00:05:43.680 an official leave of absence from Harvard. Which, 00:05:43.779 --> 00:05:45.620 let's be honest, was never going to be temporary. 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:48.920 No. That decision leads directly to the birth 00:05:48.920 --> 00:05:51.779 of Microsoft. And the way it started. It's pure 00:05:51.779 --> 00:05:54.139 audacity. That famous bluff. Right. They see 00:05:54.139 --> 00:05:56.689 the Altair article. And what they just call it, 00:05:56.689 --> 00:05:58.990 mites. They call Ed Roberts the president of 00:05:58.990 --> 00:06:00.750 ITES and tell him they have a BASIC interpreter 00:06:00.750 --> 00:06:03.250 ready for his machine. Which they absolutely 00:06:03.250 --> 00:06:04.889 did not have. Not even close. They didn't even 00:06:04.889 --> 00:06:06.649 have an Altair to test it on. They had to write 00:06:06.649 --> 00:06:08.569 an emulator first, running on a Harvard computer, 00:06:08.829 --> 00:06:11.029 then write the BASIC interpreter itself. All 00:06:11.029 --> 00:06:13.050 in a matter of weeks. The pressure must have 00:06:13.050 --> 00:06:15.290 been incredible. Intense. But they pulled it 00:06:15.290 --> 00:06:18.509 off. Flew out to Albuquerque, demoed it. Roberts 00:06:18.509 --> 00:06:21.730 was impressed. Licensed Altair BASIC on the spot. 00:06:22.189 --> 00:06:24.629 And Microsoft was born, dropped the hyphen pretty 00:06:24.629 --> 00:06:27.709 quickly, incorporated in 76. And almost immediately, 00:06:28.050 --> 00:06:30.370 Gates lays down the law about software value. 00:06:30.529 --> 00:06:33.209 That brings us to the open letter to hobbyists 00:06:33.209 --> 00:06:35.990 in February 76. Yeah, this is fundamental to 00:06:35.990 --> 00:06:38.389 understanding him, isn't it? He basically takes 00:06:38.389 --> 00:06:41.540 on the entire hobbyist community that. in a way, 00:06:41.660 --> 00:06:44.339 nurtured him. He does. He argues that people 00:06:44.339 --> 00:06:47.060 copying software without paying, which was totally 00:06:47.060 --> 00:06:50.060 common then, was basically theft. He said it 00:06:50.060 --> 00:06:52.959 destroys the incentive for professionals to write 00:06:52.959 --> 00:06:55.480 good software. Exactly. Developers need to be 00:06:55.480 --> 00:06:58.079 paid. Intellectual property, software IP has 00:06:58.079 --> 00:07:00.620 value and must be protected. It wasn't just a 00:07:00.620 --> 00:07:02.600 belief. It was the cornerstone of the entire 00:07:02.600 --> 00:07:05.300 future business model. Software as a product. 00:07:05.879 --> 00:07:08.459 not a shared community resource. That mindset 00:07:08.459 --> 00:07:10.980 directly leads to the moment that truly changed 00:07:10.980 --> 00:07:14.439 everything, the IBM deal, 1980. This is it, the 00:07:14.439 --> 00:07:17.240 turning point, where technical skill meets unbelievable 00:07:17.240 --> 00:07:20.480 strategic and legal maneuvering. So IBM, the 00:07:20.480 --> 00:07:22.959 giant, comes knocking. They need an operating 00:07:22.959 --> 00:07:26.000 system for their secret PC project. And surprisingly, 00:07:26.379 --> 00:07:29.860 Gates initially points them elsewhere to digital 00:07:29.860 --> 00:07:33.300 research run by Gary Kildall, who had the dominant 00:07:33.300 --> 00:07:36.560 OS at the time, CPM. Why do that? Just being 00:07:36.560 --> 00:07:40.500 cautious? Or was it strategy? Hard to say definitively. 00:07:40.639 --> 00:07:43.199 Maybe a bit of both. Maybe he felt Microsoft 00:07:43.199 --> 00:07:46.019 wasn't ready for IBM scale yet. But whatever 00:07:46.019 --> 00:07:48.180 the reason, it worked out perfectly for him. 00:07:48.259 --> 00:07:50.459 Because the talks between IBM and digital research 00:07:50.459 --> 00:07:53.459 fell apart. Right. Over NDAs and pricing or something. 00:07:53.579 --> 00:07:55.519 Yeah, the story goes, Kildall's wife, who handled 00:07:55.519 --> 00:07:58.079 the business side, was wary of IBM's terms. So 00:07:58.079 --> 00:08:00.939 IBM comes back to Gates. Can you provide an OS? 00:08:01.279 --> 00:08:02.879 And at this time, he doesn't have one ready either, 00:08:02.939 --> 00:08:05.129 but he knows where to get one. No bluff needed. 00:08:05.269 --> 00:08:08.089 Exactly. Pure execution. Microsoft goes to a 00:08:08.089 --> 00:08:10.629 small Seattle company, Seattle Computer Products. 00:08:10.990 --> 00:08:14.910 Buys their existing OS called 86 DOS, sometimes 00:08:14.910 --> 00:08:17.449 QDOS for Quick and Dirty Operating System. Right. 00:08:17.529 --> 00:08:21.509 For a reported $50 ,000, maybe $75 ,000, they 00:08:21.509 --> 00:08:24.009 quickly adapt it, polish it up a bit, and license 00:08:24.009 --> 00:08:26.709 it to IBM as PC DOS. Okay, but here's the absolute 00:08:26.709 --> 00:08:28.649 genius move, the part you really need to grasp. 00:08:29.240 --> 00:08:31.500 The licensing terms. This is the billion dollar 00:08:31.500 --> 00:08:34.379 decision. IBM gets the OS, yes, but for a relatively 00:08:34.379 --> 00:08:39.779 small one time fee. Microsoft crucially retains 00:08:39.779 --> 00:08:43.169 the copyright. They own the software. IBM didn't 00:08:43.169 --> 00:08:45.429 insist on owning it. That seems like a huge oversight 00:08:45.429 --> 00:08:47.570 from them. A colossal oversight in retrospect. 00:08:47.809 --> 00:08:50.049 They were hardware guys. They probably didn't 00:08:50.049 --> 00:08:52.750 grasp the long -term strategic value of the operating 00:08:52.750 --> 00:08:56.669 system copyright. Gates absolutely did. So when 00:08:56.669 --> 00:09:00.309 the IBM PC launches, it's a huge hit. And almost 00:09:00.309 --> 00:09:02.590 immediately, other companies start cloning it. 00:09:02.690 --> 00:09:05.549 Compaq, Dell, Gateway. The clone market explodes. 00:09:05.830 --> 00:09:08.049 And because IBM didn't own the OS. Every single 00:09:08.049 --> 00:09:09.909 one of those clone makers had to go to Microsoft 00:09:09.909 --> 00:09:12.370 to license the operating system. Yeah. Now called 00:09:12.370 --> 00:09:15.190 MS -DOS. Precisely. Microsoft basically put a 00:09:15.190 --> 00:09:17.750 toll booth on the road to the entire PC industry. 00:09:17.909 --> 00:09:20.009 That single decision, retaining the copyright, 00:09:20.190 --> 00:09:21.809 transformed them from a small player into the 00:09:21.809 --> 00:09:23.929 dominant force practically overnight. It was 00:09:23.929 --> 00:09:26.450 built on that legal detail. That intensity. That 00:09:26.450 --> 00:09:28.809 control. It permeated the early company culture, 00:09:28.970 --> 00:09:30.789 too, didn't it? You hear stories about him reviewing 00:09:30.789 --> 00:09:33.289 every line of code himself for years. For the 00:09:33.289 --> 00:09:36.850 first five years, reportedly, yes. Absolute micromanagement, 00:09:37.029 --> 00:09:39.730 ensuring everything met his standard. And as 00:09:39.730 --> 00:09:43.850 they grew, that translated into a, let's say, 00:09:43.870 --> 00:09:46.529 challenging management style. Challenging is 00:09:46.529 --> 00:09:49.870 one word for it. Verbally combative, known for 00:09:49.870 --> 00:09:53.629 tearing into managers' ideas. Famous for lines 00:09:53.629 --> 00:09:55.389 like, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. 00:09:55.490 --> 00:09:57.330 Or the classic, why don't you just give up your 00:09:57.330 --> 00:09:59.679 options and join the Peace Corps? Right. It was 00:09:59.679 --> 00:10:01.679 brutal. But some people say, you know, if he 00:10:01.679 --> 00:10:04.519 really engaged with you, even aggressively, it 00:10:04.519 --> 00:10:06.879 meant he respected your intellect enough to argue. 00:10:06.940 --> 00:10:08.860 If he could pick apart your logic and you could 00:10:08.860 --> 00:10:11.259 defend it, you earned your place. A high pressure 00:10:11.259 --> 00:10:13.480 cooker for sure. Yeah. Intellectually demanding, 00:10:13.720 --> 00:10:16.200 but maybe not great for morale. Probably not. 00:10:16.340 --> 00:10:19.059 And that intensity at other costs. Paul Allen's 00:10:19.059 --> 00:10:21.750 departure in 1983. That was complicated. He had 00:10:21.750 --> 00:10:24.190 Hodgkin's disease, needed treatment. But there 00:10:24.190 --> 00:10:26.490 was also a serious dispute over his equity stake 00:10:26.490 --> 00:10:29.110 in Microsoft, right? It got pretty contentious. 00:10:29.269 --> 00:10:31.730 It did. They did reconcile later, became huge 00:10:31.730 --> 00:10:34.330 philanthropic partners, donated massively back 00:10:34.330 --> 00:10:37.450 to Lakeside. But yeah, that early conflict shows 00:10:37.450 --> 00:10:40.389 the harder edge of Microsoft's ambition. And 00:10:40.389 --> 00:10:43.210 the ambition just kept rolling. Windows launches 00:10:43.210 --> 00:10:45.610 in 85, taking on Apple's graphical interface. 00:10:45.909 --> 00:10:47.809 Microsoft just keeps growing, keeps dominating. 00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:50.820 Leading up to the late 90s, the peak of their 00:10:50.820 --> 00:10:53.659 power, but also the peak of the conflict, the 00:10:53.659 --> 00:10:56.279 antitrust era. Right. Massive lawsuits in the 00:10:56.279 --> 00:10:58.919 U .S., in Europe, the government. Essentially 00:10:58.919 --> 00:11:01.259 accusing Microsoft of being an illegal monopoly. 00:11:01.580 --> 00:11:04.679 And the courts largely agreed. The core finding 00:11:04.679 --> 00:11:07.500 was about anti -competitive practices. Specifically 00:11:07.500 --> 00:11:10.340 leveraging the Windows monopoly to kill off competitors, 00:11:10.539 --> 00:11:13.220 right? Like Netscape Navigator. Exactly. Bundling 00:11:13.220 --> 00:11:15.919 Internet Explorer with Windows for free, using 00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:18.259 their OS dominance to force out the leading browser. 00:11:18.559 --> 00:11:21.019 The courts ruled that was illegal monopolization, 00:11:21.279 --> 00:11:24.100 actively blocking competition. And Gates' own 00:11:24.100 --> 00:11:25.980 performance during the legal proceedings, especially 00:11:25.980 --> 00:11:29.480 that 1998 deposition. It became infamous. Oh, 00:11:29.500 --> 00:11:32.320 yeah. Widely seen as evasive, argumentative, 00:11:32.460 --> 00:11:34.700 quibbling over the meaning of basic words like 00:11:34.700 --> 00:11:37.480 compete. Reports said the judge actually laughed 00:11:37.480 --> 00:11:39.759 at some of those responses. It was a PR disaster. 00:11:40.139 --> 00:11:42.899 It really was. The image of the brilliant strategist 00:11:42.899 --> 00:11:44.779 suddenly looked like arrogance under pressure. 00:11:44.860 --> 00:11:47.220 That whole period, the late 90s, early 2000s, 00:11:47.220 --> 00:11:49.320 really marked a shift. He starts stepping back. 00:11:49.659 --> 00:11:53.320 Steps down as CEO in 2000, hands over to Ballmer, 00:11:53.440 --> 00:11:56.259 stays on as chief software architect for a while. 00:11:56.419 --> 00:11:58.720 Then transitions away from day -to -day operations 00:11:58.720 --> 00:12:01.720 around 2006, becomes chairman. Finally leaves 00:12:01.720 --> 00:12:04.220 the board entirely in 2020 to focus just on the 00:12:04.220 --> 00:12:06.919 Gates Foundation. But even looking back at that 00:12:06.919 --> 00:12:09.740 era of total dominance, you know what he calls 00:12:09.740 --> 00:12:12.299 his greatest mistake? It's not the antitrust 00:12:12.299 --> 00:12:15.139 stuff, is it? No, it's losing the mobile OS war. 00:12:15.610 --> 00:12:18.149 letting Google's Android become the standard 00:12:18.149 --> 00:12:21.789 for non -Apple phones. He sees that as a massive 00:12:21.789 --> 00:12:24.090 strategic failure that cost Microsoft hundreds 00:12:24.090 --> 00:12:27.110 of billions. Fascinating. Even with all that 00:12:27.110 --> 00:12:29.830 success, it's the missed mobile opportunity that 00:12:29.830 --> 00:12:31.210 stands out to him. Which tells you something 00:12:31.210 --> 00:12:33.690 about his focus always on the next platform, 00:12:33.769 --> 00:12:36.110 the next strategic battleground. Okay, so post 00:12:36.110 --> 00:12:38.409 -Microsoft, he doesn't just retire to an island. 00:12:38.529 --> 00:12:42.950 He pivots. Hard. Completely. He steps into this 00:12:42.950 --> 00:12:46.379 role. Almost like a global strategist or a philosopher 00:12:46.379 --> 00:12:49.580 king of technology and risk, focusing on huge 00:12:49.580 --> 00:12:52.340 long -term challenges. And the things he started 00:12:52.340 --> 00:12:55.740 talking about his biggest fears. They weren't 00:12:55.740 --> 00:12:58.279 market share or quarterly earnings anymore. No, 00:12:58.379 --> 00:13:02.259 he was talking pandemics, nuclear war, bioterrorism, 00:13:02.440 --> 00:13:05.399 existential risks. And he was talking about pandemics 00:13:05.399 --> 00:13:08.779 way before COVID -19, that 2014 speech. Yeah, 00:13:08.899 --> 00:13:10.740 where he basically warned the world was completely 00:13:10.740 --> 00:13:13.360 unprepared for a major infectious disease outbreak, 00:13:13.659 --> 00:13:15.720 said it could kill millions more than a war. 00:13:15.840 --> 00:13:18.740 He highlighted how vulnerable we were. That foresight 00:13:18.740 --> 00:13:21.000 gave him enormous credibility when the pandemic 00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:23.559 actually hit, didn't it? Absolutely. The foundation 00:13:23.559 --> 00:13:25.559 was already working in that space and he'd been 00:13:25.559 --> 00:13:27.960 sounding the alarm. He also started talking more 00:13:27.960 --> 00:13:30.789 about AI risk. agreeing with people like Elon 00:13:30.789 --> 00:13:33.250 Musk that superintelligence is a serious long 00:13:33.250 --> 00:13:35.429 -term concern. Asking why more people aren't 00:13:35.429 --> 00:13:38.029 worried about it. Right. But the area where he's 00:13:38.029 --> 00:13:40.289 put maybe the most focused energy and investment, 00:13:40.429 --> 00:13:42.649 besides global health, is climate change and 00:13:42.649 --> 00:13:45.470 energy. And his approach here is, well, it's 00:13:45.470 --> 00:13:47.210 very Bill Gates, isn't it? It's about optimization. 00:13:47.610 --> 00:13:49.730 Totally. He believes policy changes are important, 00:13:49.850 --> 00:13:52.269 but not enough. We need breakthrough innovation. 00:13:52.549 --> 00:13:54.669 We need clean energy to be radically cheaper. 00:13:54.850 --> 00:13:57.269 His goal, he said, is to make it a quarter as 00:13:57.269 --> 00:14:00.590 costly as fossil fuels. So cheap that developing 00:14:00.590 --> 00:14:02.889 countries just choose it automatically. That's 00:14:02.889 --> 00:14:05.409 the ultimate optimization problem for him. How 00:14:05.409 --> 00:14:07.570 do you engineer that cost reduction? Which led 00:14:07.570 --> 00:14:09.929 him to start... Breakthrough energy. Right. This 00:14:09.929 --> 00:14:12.750 huge coalition of investors pouring money into 00:14:12.750 --> 00:14:15.990 really high risk, potentially high reward clean 00:14:15.990 --> 00:14:18.870 tech startups. Things like advanced batteries, 00:14:19.169 --> 00:14:23.149 green hydrogen, sustainable aviation fuel, even 00:14:23.149 --> 00:14:26.230 synthetic breast milk, oddly enough. De -risking 00:14:26.230 --> 00:14:28.470 the R &D for technologies that might normally 00:14:28.470 --> 00:14:31.059 take decades to develop. And pushing governments, 00:14:31.080 --> 00:14:33.720 too, with mission innovation, getting countries 00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:36.000 to commit to doubling their clean energy research 00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:38.399 budgets. He's orchestrating on a global scale. 00:14:38.539 --> 00:14:41.360 A prime example is TerraPower, his own nuclear 00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:43.919 venture. Yeah, focusing on advanced reactor designs. 00:14:44.279 --> 00:14:46.720 They're developing a sodium -cooled reactor, 00:14:47.000 --> 00:14:51.299 uses molten sodium, not water, for cooling. Supposedly 00:14:51.299 --> 00:14:53.919 safer, more efficient, can use different kinds 00:14:53.919 --> 00:14:55.720 of fuel. And they're actually building one, right? 00:14:56.029 --> 00:14:58.429 in Wyoming. That's the plan. A demonstration 00:14:58.429 --> 00:15:01.669 plant with Pacific Corp, a utility company, trying 00:15:01.669 --> 00:15:03.950 to bring advanced nuclear into the real world, 00:15:04.129 --> 00:15:06.409 potentially replacing coal plants. It's incredibly 00:15:06.409 --> 00:15:09.190 ambitious. But his climate work isn't without 00:15:09.190 --> 00:15:12.110 major controversy. The geoengineering stuff, 00:15:12.210 --> 00:15:15.220 for instance. Ah, yes. Funding research into 00:15:15.220 --> 00:15:18.679 sun dimming, the Scopex project at Harvard, looking 00:15:18.679 --> 00:15:21.679 into stratospheric controlled perturbation experiment. 00:15:22.019 --> 00:15:24.120 Basically researching the idea of spraying aerosols 00:15:24.120 --> 00:15:26.240 high in the atmosphere to reflect sunlight and 00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:28.379 cool the planet. It's hugely controversial. The 00:15:28.379 --> 00:15:30.559 potential for unintended consequences messing 00:15:30.559 --> 00:15:32.960 with rainfall patterns, ozone layer impacts is 00:15:32.960 --> 00:15:36.480 enormous. Plus the governance issues. Who decides 00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:38.580 to do this? But Gates is funding the research 00:15:38.580 --> 00:15:41.200 to understand if it's even feasible, what the 00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:43.399 risks are. It shows his willingness to look at 00:15:43.399 --> 00:15:46.500 extreme technological fixes. Absolutely. Same 00:15:46.500 --> 00:15:49.299 with his push for rich nations to switch entirely 00:15:49.299 --> 00:15:52.580 to synthetic beef. A massive societal change 00:15:52.580 --> 00:15:55.500 driven by his analysis of methane emissions from 00:15:55.500 --> 00:15:57.559 agriculture. And he backs up these technical 00:15:57.559 --> 00:16:00.539 ideas with political action when needed, like 00:16:00.539 --> 00:16:03.120 lobbying Joe Manchin on the Inflation Reduction 00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:05.379 Act. Right. He personally got involved, made 00:16:05.379 --> 00:16:07.940 the case to Manchin, and when it passed, Gates 00:16:07.940 --> 00:16:10.320 called it maybe the most important climate legislation 00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:13.360 ever in the U .S. He's willing to use his direct 00:16:13.360 --> 00:16:15.850 influence for policy out. Which brings us to 00:16:15.850 --> 00:16:18.850 the quieter engine behind a lot of this. His 00:16:18.850 --> 00:16:20.830 personal investment firm, Cascade Investment. 00:16:21.149 --> 00:16:23.570 This isn't the foundation. This is his private 00:16:23.570 --> 00:16:26.070 wealth. And the scale here is also mind -boggling. 00:16:26.570 --> 00:16:29.629 Cascade manages the billions not given to the 00:16:29.629 --> 00:16:32.129 foundation yet, and its holdings are significant. 00:16:32.490 --> 00:16:34.950 The most talked about holding. Farmland. He's 00:16:34.950 --> 00:16:36.750 the largest private owner of farmland in the 00:16:36.750 --> 00:16:39.509 United States. Yeah, something like 242 ,000 00:16:39.509 --> 00:16:42.549 acres across nearly 20 states. It's an astonishing 00:16:42.549 --> 00:16:44.509 amount. What does that mean, practically, owning 00:16:44.509 --> 00:16:47.129 that much land? It means huge influence over 00:16:47.129 --> 00:16:50.090 agriculture, land use, potentially food prices, 00:16:50.230 --> 00:16:53.730 adoption of farming technologies. It's a different 00:16:53.730 --> 00:16:56.629 kind of power, much less visible than the foundation's 00:16:56.629 --> 00:16:58.990 work. And Cascade holds big stakes in regular 00:16:58.990 --> 00:17:01.110 companies, too, right? Major positions, like 00:17:01.110 --> 00:17:04.690 16 % of AutoNation, the car retailer, largest 00:17:04.690 --> 00:17:07.450 single shareholder in Canadian National Railway 00:17:07.450 --> 00:17:10.690 key infrastructure, a big stake in Ecolab, which 00:17:10.690 --> 00:17:13.789 does water treatment and hygiene. So logistics, 00:17:14.150 --> 00:17:17.329 infrastructure, resources. Exactly. Plus, they're 00:17:17.329 --> 00:17:19.309 still making venture bets in cutting -edge tech, 00:17:19.509 --> 00:17:22.750 synthetic biology with Kinko Bioworks, AI. chips 00:17:22.750 --> 00:17:25.109 with luminous computing. And during the pandemic, 00:17:25.130 --> 00:17:27.829 Cascade actually bought Melologic, a UK company 00:17:27.829 --> 00:17:30.049 that made rapid COVID tests. Which shows how 00:17:30.049 --> 00:17:31.849 his investment interests and his philanthropic 00:17:31.849 --> 00:17:34.710 goals can sometimes overlap or align. Investing 00:17:34.710 --> 00:17:36.529 in the tools needed to solve the problems the 00:17:36.529 --> 00:17:38.750 foundation targets. Okay, let's shift fully to 00:17:38.750 --> 00:17:40.630 the philanthropy, the Bill and Melinda Gates 00:17:40.630 --> 00:17:44.230 Foundation. The scale is just unprecedented for 00:17:44.230 --> 00:17:47.160 a private charity. Totally. Around $60 billion 00:17:47.160 --> 00:17:49.940 given to the foundation itself, part of that 00:17:49.940 --> 00:17:52.740 $100 billion total commitment. It's the largest 00:17:52.740 --> 00:17:55.940 private foundation on Earth by far. And its influence 00:17:55.940 --> 00:17:58.440 on global health is immense. They modeled it 00:17:58.440 --> 00:18:00.380 after the Rockefeller Foundation, right? Yeah, 00:18:00.420 --> 00:18:03.259 focusing on huge systemic problems that others 00:18:03.259 --> 00:18:06.539 maybe ignore or can't fund at scale, especially 00:18:06.539 --> 00:18:09.420 infectious diseases. Their main targets are really 00:18:09.420 --> 00:18:13.289 specific. Polio eradication, malaria. tuberculosis. 00:18:13.450 --> 00:18:16.170 Relentless focus. Massive funding for vaccine 00:18:16.170 --> 00:18:18.470 development, delivery systems, mosquito nets, 00:18:18.730 --> 00:18:21.390 diagnostics. Also funding things like golden 00:18:21.390 --> 00:18:24.009 rice, the genetically modified rice with vitamin 00:18:24.009 --> 00:18:27.089 A to fight malnutrition. And the sanitation work, 00:18:27.230 --> 00:18:29.410 including that unforgettable moment with the 00:18:29.410 --> 00:18:32.359 Omniprocessor. Ah, yes. Bill Gates drinking water 00:18:32.359 --> 00:18:35.319 that had been moments before human sewage sludge 00:18:35.319 --> 00:18:37.400 processed by this machine they funded. A dramatic 00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:39.140 way to prove the technology works. Definitely 00:18:39.140 --> 00:18:41.119 memorable. It highlights that engineering mindset. 00:18:41.259 --> 00:18:43.500 Find a technical fix for a massive problem like 00:18:43.500 --> 00:18:45.960 lack of clean water and sanitation. Plus, huge 00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:48.079 investments in family planning access and education. 00:18:48.519 --> 00:18:51.380 Then there's the giving pledge. co -founded with 00:18:51.380 --> 00:18:54.019 Warren Buffett in 2010. Getting billionaires 00:18:54.019 --> 00:18:56.420 to commit to giving away at least half their 00:18:56.420 --> 00:18:58.980 wealth, it's a public statement about the responsibility 00:18:58.980 --> 00:19:01.539 that comes with extreme wealth. And it aligns 00:19:01.539 --> 00:19:03.519 with his own plans for inheritance, right? Leaving 00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:05.799 his kids relatively little. Yeah, he's been clear. 00:19:05.940 --> 00:19:09.759 The vast majority, over 99%, will go to the foundation, 00:19:10.019 --> 00:19:13.809 not his children. They'll get... maybe $10 million 00:19:13.809 --> 00:19:17.170 each, a tiny fraction of his fortune. He wants 00:19:17.170 --> 00:19:19.309 the money put to work solving problems. When 00:19:19.309 --> 00:19:21.930 COVID hit, the foundation was positioned perfectly, 00:19:22.170 --> 00:19:25.109 given their work and his earlier warnings. They 00:19:25.109 --> 00:19:27.329 launched the COVID -19 therapeutics accelerator 00:19:27.329 --> 00:19:30.490 quickly. He became a global spokesperson for 00:19:30.490 --> 00:19:33.150 preparedness, vaccine development, constantly 00:19:33.150 --> 00:19:35.250 saying, another pandemic will come, we have to 00:19:35.250 --> 00:19:37.789 be ready. But the pandemic also threw that core 00:19:37.789 --> 00:19:40.950 tension in his career into sharp relief, didn't 00:19:40.950 --> 00:19:43.579 it? The IP issue. The TRIPS -Auror controversy. 00:19:43.619 --> 00:19:45.799 Yes, this was huge. Can you break that down? 00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:48.339 What was the waiver about? Okay, so TRIPS -S 00:19:48.339 --> 00:19:50.859 is the WTO agreement on intellectual property. 00:19:51.640 --> 00:19:54.160 During the pandemic, countries like India and 00:19:54.160 --> 00:19:56.539 South Africa proposed waiving patent protections 00:19:56.539 --> 00:19:59.619 for COVID vaccines and treatments. The idea being, 00:19:59.720 --> 00:20:02.299 let any country with a manufacturing capability 00:20:02.299 --> 00:20:05.099 make cheaper generic versions faster. Exactly. 00:20:05.460 --> 00:20:08.319 Boost global supply, especially for poorer nations. 00:20:08.779 --> 00:20:12.319 But Gates? opposed it which seems counterintuitive 00:20:12.319 --> 00:20:15.460 given his focus on global health access why his 00:20:15.460 --> 00:20:18.440 argument went right back to that 1976 open letter 00:20:18.890 --> 00:20:21.309 He believes strong IP protection is essential 00:20:21.309 --> 00:20:24.349 to incentivize the massive R &D investment needed 00:20:24.349 --> 00:20:26.910 for breakthroughs like mRNA vaccines in the first 00:20:26.910 --> 00:20:29.549 place. He argued the real bottleneck wasn't patents, 00:20:29.730 --> 00:20:32.190 but the difficulty of safely transferring complex 00:20:32.190 --> 00:20:34.869 manufacturing tech and ensuring quality control. 00:20:35.109 --> 00:20:38.210 Right. But the criticism was fierce. People saw 00:20:38.210 --> 00:20:40.750 it as his fundamental belief in IP monopolies, 00:20:40.789 --> 00:20:43.069 the very thing that built Microsoft overriding 00:20:43.069 --> 00:20:45.789 urgent humanitarian needs during a global crisis. 00:20:46.069 --> 00:20:48.480 It's the central paradox, isn't it? Imagine of 00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:50.400 his wealth creation potentially hindering the 00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:52.180 distribution of life -saving tools he helped 00:20:52.180 --> 00:20:55.759 fund. It really is a defining tension. Alongside 00:20:55.759 --> 00:20:58.240 the foundation, he also makes large personal 00:20:58.240 --> 00:21:00.779 donations, often putting his name on buildings 00:21:00.779 --> 00:21:04.119 at places like MIT and Stanford. And uses his 00:21:04.119 --> 00:21:06.799 profile for specific fundraisers, like those 00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:08.960 tennis matches with Roger Federer for education 00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:11.420 in Africa. Yeah, the Match for Africa events 00:21:11.420 --> 00:21:14.480 raised millions. So he leverages his fame and 00:21:14.480 --> 00:21:16.559 connections in multiple ways. Let's talk about 00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:18.859 his public image. It's been a real roller coaster. 00:21:18.980 --> 00:21:22.339 Oh, absolutely. He started as the ultimate tech 00:21:22.339 --> 00:21:25.400 villain for many in the 90s, the ruthless robber 00:21:25.400 --> 00:21:28.279 baron of software. Then, post -Microsoft, post 00:21:28.279 --> 00:21:30.619 -foundation launch, he undergoes this transformation, 00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:34.160 becomes the saintly savior, the techno -philanthropist 00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:37.039 everyone admired. For about two decades, that 00:21:37.039 --> 00:21:40.859 image largely held. But then around 2021, coinciding 00:21:40.859 --> 00:21:43.160 with the divorce announcement, things shifted 00:21:43.160 --> 00:21:45.039 again quite dramatically. Yeah, the narrative 00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:47.579 darkened. Suddenly he's portrayed more like a 00:21:47.579 --> 00:21:50.240 tech supervillain again in some quarters. Scrutiny 00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:52.859 intensified massively. And old controversies 00:21:52.859 --> 00:21:55.640 resurfaced alongside new ones. The antitrust 00:21:55.640 --> 00:21:57.839 findings from the 90s never went away, obviously. 00:21:58.119 --> 00:22:01.000 The courts did find Microsoft abused its monopoly 00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:03.779 power. But the focus recently has been much more 00:22:03.779 --> 00:22:06.460 personal. Especially the connection to Jeffrey 00:22:06.460 --> 00:22:09.380 Epstein. Right. Reporting, particularly from 00:22:09.380 --> 00:22:11.339 The New York Times, detailed meetings between 00:22:11.339 --> 00:22:14.740 Gates and Epstein starting around 2011, well 00:22:14.740 --> 00:22:17.640 after Epstein's initial conviction. The reports 00:22:17.640 --> 00:22:20.859 said they met many times, and crucially, that 00:22:20.859 --> 00:22:22.920 Melinda French Gates had concerns about this 00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:25.720 relationship as far back as 2019, reportedly 00:22:25.720 --> 00:22:27.859 contributing to her decision to seek divorce 00:22:27.859 --> 00:22:30.339 lawyers then. Gates himself has called meeting 00:22:30.339 --> 00:22:33.140 with Epstein a huge mistake. He said the goal 00:22:33.140 --> 00:22:35.740 was philanthropic fundraising. trying to connect 00:22:35.740 --> 00:22:38.579 Epstein's network to global health causes, but 00:22:38.579 --> 00:22:41.740 admitted it was naive and damaging. He expressed 00:22:41.740 --> 00:22:44.279 deep regret, especially for the impact on his 00:22:44.279 --> 00:22:47.000 family. His political stances also add layers. 00:22:47.259 --> 00:22:49.700 He's generally advocated for higher taxes on 00:22:49.700 --> 00:22:51.759 the wealthy. Which is always a bit ironic coming 00:22:51.759 --> 00:22:53.839 from one of the wealthiest people ever. But he's 00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:56.660 also taken direct action lately. That huge donation 00:22:56.660 --> 00:22:59.859 in the 2024 election cycle. Exactly. A reported 00:22:59.859 --> 00:23:03.339 $50 million donation to Future Forward USA Action, 00:23:03.559 --> 00:23:05.680 a group supporting Kamala Harris's presidential 00:23:05.680 --> 00:23:08.900 campaign. And using a 501c4 structure, right, 00:23:09.019 --> 00:23:11.519 which allows for less disclosure than direct 00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:14.390 campaign contributions. Often called... Dark 00:23:14.390 --> 00:23:17.009 money. It allows for very large contributions 00:23:17.009 --> 00:23:20.410 focused on political advocacy. Gates justified 00:23:20.410 --> 00:23:23.230 it by saying he felt this election is different, 00:23:23.450 --> 00:23:25.690 implying the stakes were exceptionally high, 00:23:25.869 --> 00:23:28.369 warranting that level of personal financial intervention. 00:23:28.890 --> 00:23:31.589 It's a significant move, showing another way 00:23:31.589 --> 00:23:34.170 he wields influence. And of course, during COVID, 00:23:34.410 --> 00:23:37.710 his high profile on vaccines made him a lightning 00:23:37.710 --> 00:23:40.430 rod for conspiracy theories. Just wild stuff. 00:23:40.730 --> 00:23:43.390 Microchips and vaccines, depopulation plots. 00:23:44.059 --> 00:23:46.539 all completely unfounded. He tends to dismiss 00:23:46.539 --> 00:23:49.019 them as people looking for simple, albeit sinister, 00:23:49.299 --> 00:23:52.279 explanations for complex events like a pandemic. 00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:54.559 Which is probably true, but the sheer volume 00:23:54.559 --> 00:23:56.279 and reach of those theories were remarkable. 00:23:56.599 --> 00:23:58.799 On the personal front, the divorce from Melinda 00:23:58.799 --> 00:24:02.119 was finalized in August 2021. They deliberately 00:24:02.119 --> 00:24:04.500 waited until their youngest child finished college. 00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:06.200 And then there's that fascinating revelation 00:24:06.200 --> 00:24:08.859 from his upcoming memoir, Source Code, writing 00:24:08.859 --> 00:24:10.859 that he believes he's likely autistic. Yeah, 00:24:10.980 --> 00:24:14.539 citing lifelong patterns, intense focus, pattern 00:24:14.539 --> 00:24:18.259 matching, difficulty with social cues, even physical 00:24:18.259 --> 00:24:20.900 stimming like rocking. It offers a potential 00:24:20.900 --> 00:24:23.279 lens, doesn't it, for understanding that incredible, 00:24:23.480 --> 00:24:26.819 sometimes awkward intensity that drove both his 00:24:26.819 --> 00:24:29.640 business success and his very focused philanthropy. 00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:33.000 It does add context. And his personal life seems 00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:35.819 to have moved on. He confirmed dating Paula Heard 00:24:35.819 --> 00:24:38.930 in 2023. And described her as a serious girlfriend 00:24:38.930 --> 00:24:42.170 more recently, saying he's moved past the divorce. 00:24:42.470 --> 00:24:45.390 Okay, so wrapping this all up, synthesizing this 00:24:45.390 --> 00:24:48.309 life, it's quite a task. It really is. You have 00:24:48.309 --> 00:24:50.769 the hyper -competitive software genius who built 00:24:50.769 --> 00:24:53.490 an empire on intellectual property control. Then 00:24:53.490 --> 00:24:55.650 the transition to the concerned futurist warning 00:24:55.650 --> 00:24:58.269 about pandemics, AI, climate change. And finally, 00:24:58.289 --> 00:25:00.549 the hyper -focused philanthropist applying that 00:25:00.549 --> 00:25:02.730 same analytical intensity to try and solve the 00:25:02.730 --> 00:25:04.250 world's biggest health and energy challenges. 00:25:04.839 --> 00:25:07.339 Three careers in one. He's received major honors, 00:25:07.539 --> 00:25:10.140 Presidential Medal of Freedom, Honorary Knighthood, 00:25:10.279 --> 00:25:12.960 Pakistan's second highest civilian award. But 00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:15.599 the awards almost feel secondary to the sheer 00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:19.759 scale of his ongoing real world influence. Which 00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:21.539 leads us, I think, to the final thought for you, 00:25:21.640 --> 00:25:23.559 the listener. Yeah. When you consider everything 00:25:23.559 --> 00:25:26.099 we've discussed, the foundation's agenda -setting 00:25:26.099 --> 00:25:28.900 power, the massive private investments like TerraPower 00:25:28.900 --> 00:25:31.480 and all that, Farmland, the vaccine IP stance, 00:25:31.759 --> 00:25:34.579 the huge political donations. It forces you to 00:25:34.579 --> 00:25:38.059 ask a fundamental question, right? How do we, 00:25:38.099 --> 00:25:41.420 as a society, navigate a future where so many 00:25:41.420 --> 00:25:44.390 critical global issues public health strategy, 00:25:44.809 --> 00:25:47.970 energy policy, even democratic outcomes, are 00:25:47.970 --> 00:25:50.890 increasingly influenced, funded, and shaped by 00:25:50.890 --> 00:25:53.210 the specific priorities, technological bets, 00:25:53.369 --> 00:25:56.509 and personal decisions of a handful of unelected, 00:25:56.509 --> 00:25:59.230 ultra -wealthy individuals like Gates. That concentration 00:25:59.230 --> 00:26:02.529 of power, originating from tech wealth, now steering 00:26:02.529 --> 00:26:05.210 responses to humanity's biggest threats. Something 00:26:05.210 --> 00:26:07.630 profound to think about. Exactly. What does that 00:26:07.630 --> 00:26:10.009 concentration of private influence mean for all 00:26:10.009 --> 00:26:11.750 of us? That's the question we leave you with.