WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.980 Welcome back to the Deep Dive. Today we are tackling 00:00:03.980 --> 00:00:06.860 a really fascinating figure. We're charting the 00:00:06.860 --> 00:00:09.419 career of Neil Patrick Harris. Yeah, and it's 00:00:09.419 --> 00:00:11.699 quite the undertaking. It really is. I mean, 00:00:11.720 --> 00:00:13.779 when you look at his resume, it's not just that 00:00:13.779 --> 00:00:16.079 he's done different things in media. No, it feels 00:00:16.079 --> 00:00:18.199 like he's truly well conquered almost every single 00:00:18.199 --> 00:00:21.399 one. Exactly. Actor, singer, writer, producer. 00:00:21.760 --> 00:00:24.100 Magician, don't forget magician. And of course, 00:00:24.100 --> 00:00:27.219 the master of ceremonies for seemingly every 00:00:27.219 --> 00:00:30.469 awards show. Right. So the challenge for us today 00:00:30.469 --> 00:00:33.250 and for you listening is to understand how that 00:00:33.250 --> 00:00:35.329 happened. Yeah. How does someone go from being, 00:00:35.429 --> 00:00:38.109 you know, America's favorite teenage doctor? 00:00:38.310 --> 00:00:40.570 The ultimate symbol of sincerity, really. To 00:00:40.570 --> 00:00:43.590 this boundary -pushing stage actor, a super sharp, 00:00:43.710 --> 00:00:46.090 satirical comedian, and, yeah, the guy hosting 00:00:46.090 --> 00:00:48.310 the Tonys and the Emmys. It's a trajectory for 00:00:48.310 --> 00:00:50.609 you, man. I mean, pulling off that kind of transition 00:00:50.609 --> 00:00:54.229 across TV, film, stage, and hosting, it's rare. 00:00:54.429 --> 00:00:56.500 And the awards prove it right. We're talking 00:00:56.500 --> 00:00:59.500 to Tony, five primetime Emmys for performing 00:00:59.500 --> 00:01:02.619 and hosting. A Grammy nod. It's that sheer breadth 00:01:02.619 --> 00:01:05.459 and the level of success in each field simultaneously. 00:01:06.359 --> 00:01:09.599 That's what we really need to unpack today. How 00:01:09.599 --> 00:01:11.659 did he pull it off? OK, so let's start at the 00:01:11.659 --> 00:01:14.620 beginning. We think of him as this New York or 00:01:14.620 --> 00:01:18.019 L .A. figure, but his roots are actually in the 00:01:18.019 --> 00:01:20.959 southwest. Albuquerque, New Mexico. Born June 00:01:20.959 --> 00:01:24.519 15th, 1973. Right, but raised mostly in Ruidoso, 00:01:24.540 --> 00:01:27.670 a smaller town. And you know, his family background 00:01:27.670 --> 00:01:30.290 is pretty unique for a future performer. How 00:01:30.290 --> 00:01:33.189 so? Well, both parents were lawyers, which is 00:01:33.189 --> 00:01:36.040 already, you know. quite intense definitely but 00:01:36.040 --> 00:01:38.760 they also owned and ran a restaurant so you've 00:01:38.760 --> 00:01:41.319 got this mix of like serious professional discipline 00:01:41.319 --> 00:01:43.540 from the law side and the chaos and hard work 00:01:43.540 --> 00:01:45.099 of the service industry on the other exactly 00:01:45.099 --> 00:01:47.959 you can sort of see how that might instill a 00:01:47.959 --> 00:01:50.500 pretty intense work ethic early on that discipline 00:01:50.500 --> 00:01:53.120 showed up academically too right the sources 00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:54.920 mentioned he graduated high school with high 00:01:54.920 --> 00:01:58.019 honors in 91 yeah from la cueva high school and 00:01:58.019 --> 00:02:00.379 he apparently credited private tutoring he got 00:02:00.379 --> 00:02:02.379 while already working on set for keeping his 00:02:02.379 --> 00:02:04.799 grades up so even as a young act He was juggling 00:02:04.799 --> 00:02:07.599 both and doing well at them. That's telling. 00:02:08.039 --> 00:02:10.719 Very. And his discovery story is almost like 00:02:10.719 --> 00:02:13.060 something out of a movie itself. Oh, yeah. He 00:02:13.060 --> 00:02:15.639 was spotted by playwright Mark Medoff, a Pulitzer 00:02:15.639 --> 00:02:18.500 nominee at a drama camp down in Las Cruces. Wow. 00:02:19.180 --> 00:02:21.659 So Miroff saw something special. Apparently so. 00:02:21.979 --> 00:02:24.680 That connection led pretty directly to his first 00:02:24.680 --> 00:02:28.340 big film role, Clara's Heart, in 1988. He was 00:02:28.340 --> 00:02:30.699 starring opposite Whoopi Goldberg. And that role 00:02:30.699 --> 00:02:33.340 got noticed immediately. His first Golden Globe 00:02:33.340 --> 00:02:36.810 nomination in 89. That's huge for a debut. It 00:02:36.810 --> 00:02:38.870 really is. But then, of course, came the role 00:02:38.870 --> 00:02:40.990 that defined him for a whole generation. Doogie 00:02:40.990 --> 00:02:45.629 Howser. Doogie Howser, MD. ABC, 1989 to 1993. 00:02:46.389 --> 00:02:49.310 Child prodigy doctor. It wasn't just a hit show. 00:02:49.409 --> 00:02:51.590 It was a cultural moment. Got him a second Golden 00:02:51.590 --> 00:02:54.310 Globe nomination. But, uh -oh, the child star 00:02:54.310 --> 00:02:56.509 problem. Exactly. The show ends in 93. He's not 00:02:56.509 --> 00:02:58.990 the kid doctor anymore. Now that transition is... 00:02:59.240 --> 00:03:01.479 Famous and brutal. So the grind began. What did 00:03:01.479 --> 00:03:03.319 that look like? Well, the sources show it wasn't 00:03:03.319 --> 00:03:05.580 straight to big movie roles. It was a lot of 00:03:05.580 --> 00:03:09.599 legwork guest spots on TV shows like Murder, 00:03:09.759 --> 00:03:12.280 she wrote. Really? Murder, she wrote. Okay. Yeah. 00:03:12.719 --> 00:03:15.000 And tons of made -for -TV movies. Things like 00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:18.439 Snowbound in 94, The Christmas Wish in 98. Just 00:03:18.439 --> 00:03:21.139 constant work, keeping his face out there, trying 00:03:21.139 --> 00:03:23.659 to break the doogie mold. Paying the dues, essentially. 00:03:23.960 --> 00:03:27.099 Totally. His first adult film role, Animal Room, 00:03:27.159 --> 00:03:29.740 in 95, he was still playing a teen, but then 00:03:29.740 --> 00:03:31.500 he started getting into bigger studio stuff. 00:03:31.740 --> 00:03:34.300 Like Starship Troopers? Right, in 97, playing 00:03:34.300 --> 00:03:37.139 Carl Jenkins, the psychic guy. A very different 00:03:37.139 --> 00:03:40.629 vibe. And then... The next best thing with Madonna 00:03:40.629 --> 00:03:43.310 in 2000. So dipping his toes into different genres. 00:03:43.509 --> 00:03:46.370 Trying to, yeah. But the real key during this 00:03:46.370 --> 00:03:48.750 period, the thing that set up his huge comeback 00:03:48.750 --> 00:03:52.300 later. It wasn't the movies. It was the stage. 00:03:52.500 --> 00:03:55.060 Absolutely. He jumped into theater. He knew, 00:03:55.120 --> 00:03:57.080 I think, that it offered the kind of challenge 00:03:57.080 --> 00:03:59.460 and credibility he needed to be seen as a serious 00:03:59.460 --> 00:04:01.479 adult actor. So what were the big stage roles, 00:04:01.620 --> 00:04:03.379 though? He played Mark Cohen in the national 00:04:03.379 --> 00:04:06.800 tour of Rent in 1997. That's a demanding show, 00:04:06.939 --> 00:04:09.460 vocally and physically. A huge statement. And 00:04:09.460 --> 00:04:12.120 not exactly light fare. Not at all. Then he did 00:04:12.120 --> 00:04:14.180 a recording of Sondheim's Evening Primrose in 00:04:14.180 --> 00:04:16.980 2001, played Hal in the Broadway run of Proof 00:04:16.980 --> 00:04:20.079 in 2002. He was building serious stage cred. 00:04:20.199 --> 00:04:22.339 Forcing people to see him differently. Precisely. 00:04:22.339 --> 00:04:25.759 And all that culminated in 2003 with a role that 00:04:25.759 --> 00:04:29.079 was, well, transformative. Playing the MC in 00:04:29.079 --> 00:04:32.160 the Broadway revival of Cabaret. Wow. Talk about 00:04:32.160 --> 00:04:34.379 the opposite of Doogie Howser, dark, complex. 00:04:34.680 --> 00:04:36.740 Totally. And he crushed it. Critics loved him. 00:04:36.819 --> 00:04:38.720 And the sources say he became the biggest box 00:04:38.720 --> 00:04:41.600 office draw in that role during his run. So even 00:04:41.600 --> 00:04:44.560 before his next huge TV hit, he was already a 00:04:44.560 --> 00:04:47.439 proven A -list stage star. That's the crucial 00:04:47.439 --> 00:04:50.100 takeaway. That stage success gave him the leverage, 00:04:50.319 --> 00:04:52.879 the credibility to really steer his career in 00:04:52.879 --> 00:04:55.420 the direction he wanted next. The stage was like. 00:04:55.769 --> 00:04:58.829 The launch pad for Act 2. And Act 2. Wow. It 00:04:58.829 --> 00:05:00.730 really blasted off with Barney Stinson, didn't 00:05:00.730 --> 00:05:03.930 it? How I Met Your Mother. CBS 2005 to 2014. 00:05:04.129 --> 00:05:07.370 Oh, completely. 208 episodes. It totally redefined 00:05:07.370 --> 00:05:09.670 him for a massive audience. Talk about a 180 00:05:09.670 --> 00:05:12.129 from Doogie. From the earnest kid Doctor 2. Well, 00:05:12.189 --> 00:05:15.050 Barney. The ultimate bro. The serial womanizer. 00:05:15.189 --> 00:05:18.389 Suit up. It was genius casting, really. And it 00:05:18.389 --> 00:05:20.930 let him flex all those comedic muscles he'd honed 00:05:20.930 --> 00:05:23.529 on stage. The physical comedy. The timing. Yeah. 00:05:23.629 --> 00:05:26.620 It was incredible. And the industry agreed. Four 00:05:26.620 --> 00:05:29.180 Emmy nominations in a row for that role, 2007 00:05:29.180 --> 00:05:32.620 through 2010. That tells you how central he was 00:05:32.620 --> 00:05:34.899 to that show's success. And he even dipped his 00:05:34.899 --> 00:05:36.620 toes into directing on the show, right? Yeah, 00:05:36.660 --> 00:05:40.079 he directed one episode, Jenkins, which is interesting, 00:05:40.180 --> 00:05:42.620 right? Even at the peak of his sitcom fame, he's 00:05:42.620 --> 00:05:44.839 already thinking about other aspects, production, 00:05:45.139 --> 00:05:47.439 directing. Always looking ahead. Diversifying. 00:05:47.579 --> 00:05:50.240 Seems like it. But what's also fascinating about 00:05:50.240 --> 00:05:52.920 this period is what he was doing in film at the 00:05:52.920 --> 00:05:56.149 same time. Right. That persona he created. Oh, 00:05:56.209 --> 00:05:58.009 the Harold and Kumar version of Neil Patrick 00:05:58.009 --> 00:06:00.250 Harris. Exactly. Starting with White Castle in 00:06:00.250 --> 00:06:02.790 2004, then the sequels, playing this totally 00:06:02.790 --> 00:06:06.750 exaggerated, lewd, womanizing version of himself. 00:06:07.009 --> 00:06:10.930 It was hilarious, but also really smart, wasn't 00:06:10.930 --> 00:06:12.949 it? Like a way to control his own image. Totally 00:06:12.949 --> 00:06:15.389 strategic. He basically took the audience's perception, 00:06:15.589 --> 00:06:17.589 maybe some leftover doogie vibes, and just blew 00:06:17.589 --> 00:06:20.350 it up. It was self -parody. And incredibly, he 00:06:20.350 --> 00:06:22.790 did this before he publicly came out in 2006. 00:06:23.920 --> 00:06:26.480 playing this hyper straight caricature. Right. 00:06:26.639 --> 00:06:28.459 It was like he was saying, look, I can play anything. 00:06:28.660 --> 00:06:30.879 He completely owned the narrative about himself. 00:06:31.220 --> 00:06:33.699 It was kind of brilliant and maybe paved the 00:06:33.699 --> 00:06:35.839 way for people to accept him in any role afterwards. 00:06:36.139 --> 00:06:39.040 And he wasn't just sticking to TV and film. This 00:06:39.040 --> 00:06:41.360 is when he made that move into, well, what we 00:06:41.360 --> 00:06:43.800 now call streaming. Dr. Horrible's sing -along 00:06:43.800 --> 00:06:47.480 blog, 2008, Joss Whedon's web series musical. 00:06:47.779 --> 00:06:51.740 Which was huge. Yeah. And so ahead of its time. 00:06:52.029 --> 00:06:54.069 Absolutely. A professionally produced musical 00:06:54.069 --> 00:06:56.230 released online when that was still kind of the 00:06:56.230 --> 00:06:58.769 Wild West. It showed he was willing to experiment 00:06:58.769 --> 00:07:01.709 with new platforms, not just chase network gigs. 00:07:01.870 --> 00:07:03.990 Again, avoiding being put in a box. Seems to 00:07:03.990 --> 00:07:06.790 be the theme. And this versatility extended to 00:07:06.790 --> 00:07:08.689 voice acting, too. He was doing a lot of that. 00:07:08.790 --> 00:07:10.829 Right. Like Steve the Monkey in Cloudy with a 00:07:10.829 --> 00:07:13.430 Chance of Meatballs. Yep. And Nightwing in Batman 00:07:13.430 --> 00:07:17.120 Under the Red Hood. A serious DC animated role. 00:07:17.279 --> 00:07:19.079 And didn't he do a musical Batman thing too? 00:07:19.420 --> 00:07:22.879 Yes. The Music Meister in Batman. The Brave and 00:07:22.879 --> 00:07:26.279 the Bold. That episode is legendary among fans. 00:07:26.480 --> 00:07:28.680 Using those musical theater chops again, but 00:07:28.680 --> 00:07:31.220 in animation. So you've got Barney Stinson, the 00:07:31.220 --> 00:07:34.240 satirical NPH, Dr. Horrible, cartoon villains. 00:07:34.399 --> 00:07:36.540 And wasn't he on Sesame Street around then too? 00:07:36.740 --> 00:07:40.259 He was. In 2008. As the Sesame Street fairy shoe 00:07:40.259 --> 00:07:45.779 person. Okay, the range is just... It really 00:07:45.779 --> 00:07:47.819 is. But through all this mainstream success, 00:07:47.920 --> 00:07:50.240 all these different projects, he never let go 00:07:50.240 --> 00:07:52.899 of the stage. Still doing serious theater. Absolutely. 00:07:53.279 --> 00:07:55.540 Balancing the sitcom with really demanding roles. 00:07:55.740 --> 00:07:58.540 Like in 2004, he did Sondheim's Assassins on 00:07:58.540 --> 00:08:01.379 Broadway, playing two roles, the Valadier and 00:08:01.379 --> 00:08:04.339 Lee Harvey Oswald. Wow. That's heavy stuff. Deep 00:08:04.339 --> 00:08:06.879 Sondheim, yeah. And then in 2005, he starred 00:08:06.879 --> 00:08:10.259 in the London premiere of Tick, Tick. Boom. Playing 00:08:10.259 --> 00:08:12.180 John. Keeping that connection to serious musical 00:08:12.180 --> 00:08:14.939 theater alive. Exactly. Signaling that even as 00:08:14.939 --> 00:08:17.459 a huge TV star, the stage was still vital to 00:08:17.459 --> 00:08:19.420 him. And I remember that directing credit on 00:08:19.420 --> 00:08:21.800 H .I .Y .M. He expanded on that, too. He directed 00:08:21.800 --> 00:08:23.860 a production of Rent at the Hollywood Bowl in 00:08:23.860 --> 00:08:27.000 2010. And he cast Vanessa Hudgens, who he'd worked 00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:29.779 with in the movie Beastly. So mentoring, directing, 00:08:30.120 --> 00:08:33.980 performing, producing. This decade, 2004 to 2014, 00:08:34.419 --> 00:08:37.240 it wasn't just about A .K .M. It was about leveraging 00:08:37.240 --> 00:08:40.490 that visibility to conquer Well, everything else. 00:08:40.649 --> 00:08:43.450 And that incredible momentum led him straight 00:08:43.450 --> 00:08:46.750 into becoming like the undisputed king of hosting, 00:08:46.889 --> 00:08:49.850 right? Yeah, that ability to command a live high 00:08:49.850 --> 00:08:52.230 pressure event became a huge part of his brand. 00:08:52.429 --> 00:08:54.450 He took those performance skills and applied 00:08:54.450 --> 00:08:56.970 them to hosting in a way few others could. The 00:08:56.970 --> 00:08:58.909 Tony Awards specifically. He hosted them four 00:08:58.909 --> 00:09:02.950 times. Four times. 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013. The 00:09:02.950 --> 00:09:05.389 only person who's hosted more is Angela Lansbury. 00:09:05.570 --> 00:09:07.129 That says a lot about how the Broadway world 00:09:07.129 --> 00:09:10.019 saw him. Wow. And he did the Emmy. Twice, 2009 00:09:10.019 --> 00:09:12.879 and 2013, and then the big one. The Oscars, 2015. 00:09:13.379 --> 00:09:15.659 Yeah. But here's the really crucial thing to 00:09:15.659 --> 00:09:17.539 understand about his hosting. It wasn't just 00:09:17.539 --> 00:09:19.679 that he was popular. He was winning awards for 00:09:19.679 --> 00:09:21.559 hosting. Right. Emmys specifically for the Tony 00:09:21.559 --> 00:09:25.340 hosting gigs. Exactly. Four primetime Emmys just 00:09:25.340 --> 00:09:29.240 for hosting the Tonys, 2010, 2012, 2013, 2014. 00:09:29.480 --> 00:09:32.500 That's huge. It validates the hosting itself 00:09:32.500 --> 00:09:35.299 as a distinct achievement. He basically brought 00:09:35.299 --> 00:09:37.500 Broadway showmanship, the singing, the dancing, 00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:40.259 the timing. to the awards show format and elevated 00:09:40.259 --> 00:09:42.360 it. And it wasn't just the big three award shows 00:09:42.360 --> 00:09:45.100 either. No, he did the TV Land Awards, the Spike 00:09:45.100 --> 00:09:47.779 Video Game Awards. He became the reliable go 00:09:47.779 --> 00:09:50.799 -to guy for any big live event that needed energy 00:09:50.799 --> 00:09:53.120 and structure. But even while ruling the hosting 00:09:53.120 --> 00:09:55.799 world, he went back to the stage for what many 00:09:55.799 --> 00:09:58.519 consider his absolute peak performance. Hedwig 00:09:58.519 --> 00:10:01.690 and the Angry Inch. On Broadway. That must have 00:10:01.690 --> 00:10:03.889 been intense. Unbelievably intense. He took on 00:10:03.889 --> 00:10:06.049 the title role in the first ever Broadway production 00:10:06.049 --> 00:10:08.629 of that show starting in March 2014. And Hedwig 00:10:08.629 --> 00:10:10.409 is. I mean, it's a demanding role physically 00:10:10.409 --> 00:10:12.529 and emotionally. Totally. Rock vocals, intense 00:10:12.529 --> 00:10:15.789 movement, carrying this incredibly complex, tragic, 00:10:15.909 --> 00:10:17.929 funny character for the whole show. It required 00:10:17.929 --> 00:10:20.190 a complete transformation. How did people react? 00:10:20.570 --> 00:10:23.600 Critics were blown away. Variety called it an 00:10:23.600 --> 00:10:25.940 astonishing physical performance comparing him 00:10:25.940 --> 00:10:28.919 to Iggy Pop and Lou Reed. It was the ultimate 00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:32.480 proof that he was far, far more than Barney Stinson. 00:10:32.679 --> 00:10:35.299 And it paid off. He won the Tony for it. 2014 00:10:35.299 --> 00:10:37.820 Tony Award for Best Leading Actor in a Musical. 00:10:37.940 --> 00:10:40.960 It was like the final jewel in his Broadway crown. 00:10:41.759 --> 00:10:45.200 Solidified him as a truly serious, risk -taking 00:10:45.200 --> 00:10:47.759 stage actor. But then he left the show relatively 00:10:47.759 --> 00:10:50.279 quickly, didn't he? August 2014. Yeah, he cited 00:10:50.279 --> 00:10:52.360 wanting to spend more time with his family. Which, 00:10:52.419 --> 00:10:54.519 you know, fits that pattern of balancing work 00:10:54.519 --> 00:10:57.419 and life. But maybe also avoiding getting stuck. 00:10:57.820 --> 00:11:00.419 Avoiding burnout after such an intense role. 00:11:00.600 --> 00:11:03.440 That idea of avoiding repetition. It came up 00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:05.159 again around late night TV, right? It did. There 00:11:05.159 --> 00:11:07.059 were reports that he was in the running or maybe 00:11:07.059 --> 00:11:09.299 even turned down offers to replace Letterman 00:11:09.299 --> 00:11:11.659 or Craig Ferguson. A gig most stars would kill 00:11:11.659 --> 00:11:14.259 for. Right. But the reason cited was his fear 00:11:14.259 --> 00:11:16.580 of the nightly grind, the repetition of doing 00:11:16.580 --> 00:11:19.600 a talk show every single day. Did he ever confirm 00:11:19.600 --> 00:11:21.659 that? He later clarified she wasn't officially 00:11:21.659 --> 00:11:24.259 offered either job, but that, yeah, there were 00:11:24.259 --> 00:11:26.879 conversations about his interest level. But that 00:11:26.879 --> 00:11:29.679 core feeling, the fear of repetition, seems genuine. 00:11:30.190 --> 00:11:32.250 It's interesting because hosting the Tonys four 00:11:32.250 --> 00:11:36.409 times has its own kind of repetition. True, but 00:11:36.409 --> 00:11:38.889 maybe it's the difference between a huge annual 00:11:38.889 --> 00:11:42.009 event you can really prepare for and craft versus 00:11:42.009 --> 00:11:45.690 the relentless daily churn of late night. He 00:11:45.690 --> 00:11:48.330 seems drawn to unique, challenging projects, 00:11:48.429 --> 00:11:51.370 not necessarily the comfortable long run. And 00:11:51.370 --> 00:11:53.750 this whole period, his influence was really peaking. 00:11:53.809 --> 00:11:56.250 He made Time magazine's 100 most influential 00:11:56.250 --> 00:11:59.029 people list in 2010. Yeah, and that wasn't just 00:11:59.029 --> 00:12:01.409 about acting. It was about his whole cultural 00:12:01.409 --> 00:12:03.590 footprint, the versatile performer, the visible 00:12:03.590 --> 00:12:05.690 gay man thriving in the mainstream. It was a 00:12:05.690 --> 00:12:08.070 big moment. Okay, so post -Oscars, post -Hedwig, 00:12:08.230 --> 00:12:10.649 what's the next chapter? It seems like he shifts 00:12:10.649 --> 00:12:13.230 focus again more towards creating his own stuff. 00:12:13.350 --> 00:12:15.909 Exactly. Less performing in other people's projects, 00:12:15.970 --> 00:12:18.549 more becoming a writer and producer. Building 00:12:18.549 --> 00:12:21.009 his own IP. Starting with his memoir in 2014. 00:12:21.549 --> 00:12:24.710 Neil Patrick Harris. Choose your own autobiography. 00:12:24.909 --> 00:12:27.429 And even that wasn't standard. The format itself 00:12:27.429 --> 00:12:29.330 was innovative. The choose your own adventure 00:12:29.330 --> 00:12:32.009 style. That's very him. Right. taking a familiar 00:12:32.009 --> 00:12:34.769 format and putting his unique playful spin on 00:12:34.769 --> 00:12:37.429 it and it worked hit the bestseller list and 00:12:37.429 --> 00:12:39.909 then he leaned into his love of magic for another 00:12:39.909 --> 00:12:42.470 writing project yeah the magic misfits series 00:12:42.470 --> 00:12:45.570 young adult novel starting in 2017 the sources 00:12:45.570 --> 00:12:48.389 list four books it's him building a whole world 00:12:48.389 --> 00:12:50.490 based on something he's genuinely passionate 00:12:50.490 --> 00:12:54.470 about so author and then he got into Board games. 00:12:54.629 --> 00:12:58.509 Sort of. He released Box One in 2020. It's described 00:12:58.509 --> 00:13:00.490 as a single -player board game, but it's really 00:13:00.490 --> 00:13:02.710 more like an escape room in a box. Oh, interesting. 00:13:03.110 --> 00:13:06.210 Interactive. Very. Uses physical puzzles, digital 00:13:06.210 --> 00:13:08.649 elements. It's another example of him finding 00:13:08.649 --> 00:13:11.330 a new creative outlet, leveraging his interests 00:13:11.330 --> 00:13:13.389 in magic and puzzles into a totally different 00:13:13.389 --> 00:13:15.990 kind of product. Again, avoiding repetition, 00:13:16.250 --> 00:13:18.450 tackling game design. Meanwhile, his acting career 00:13:18.450 --> 00:13:20.429 didn't stop. He jumped heavily into streaming. 00:13:20.649 --> 00:13:24.500 Big time. playing Count Olaf in Netflix's A Series 00:13:24.500 --> 00:13:28.539 of Unfortunate Events from 2017 to 2019. And 00:13:28.539 --> 00:13:30.440 he was a producer on that, too. Olaf seems like 00:13:30.440 --> 00:13:32.840 a perfect role for him, actually. All those disguises. 00:13:32.919 --> 00:13:35.500 Exactly. Constant variety built into the character. 00:13:35.659 --> 00:13:37.919 It prevented him from being stuck playing the 00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:40.259 same note. Then he did another Netflix show, 00:13:40.360 --> 00:13:43.559 Uncoupled, in 2022. Right. Playing a gay man 00:13:43.559 --> 00:13:46.419 navigating dating in middle age. He was an executive 00:13:46.419 --> 00:13:48.559 producer on that one, too. Yeah. And that felt 00:13:48.559 --> 00:13:51.610 significant. Using his star power to center a 00:13:51.610 --> 00:13:55.470 mature LGBTQ story, showing commitment to that 00:13:55.470 --> 00:13:58.049 kind of representation. The sheer variety of 00:13:58.049 --> 00:13:59.990 roles in recent years is kind of staggering, 00:14:00.110 --> 00:14:02.710 though. Serious drama. Like playing Desi Collings 00:14:02.710 --> 00:14:05.730 in Gone Girl back in 2014. Very creepy, very 00:14:05.730 --> 00:14:07.769 different. Big sci -fi. The Analyst in the Matrix 00:14:07.769 --> 00:14:10.169 Resurrections in 2021. Acclaimed international 00:14:10.169 --> 00:14:13.289 TV. It's a Sin in 2021, the British series about 00:14:13.289 --> 00:14:15.750 the AIDS crisis. A really powerful, dramatic 00:14:15.750 --> 00:14:17.750 role. And then something totally different again 00:14:17.750 --> 00:14:20.169 with Doctor Who. Yeah. the toy maker in the 60th 00:14:20.169 --> 00:14:23.590 anniversary special in 2023. Super flamboyant, 00:14:23.590 --> 00:14:25.909 villainous, memorable. And he even popped back 00:14:25.909 --> 00:14:28.509 up as Barney briefly. Just for two episodes in 00:14:28.509 --> 00:14:31.470 How I Met Your Father in 2023. A little nod to 00:14:31.470 --> 00:14:34.370 the past, but not a full commitment. Very strategic. 00:14:34.730 --> 00:14:37.330 Plus, more Sondheim with Into the Woods at Encores 00:14:37.330 --> 00:14:40.669 in 2022. It's like he's deliberately touching 00:14:40.669 --> 00:14:43.129 base with every single part of the industry. 00:14:43.899 --> 00:14:46.899 blockbusters, streaming, indie drama, YA books, 00:14:47.159 --> 00:14:50.440 games, Broadway. He's refusing to be categorized. 00:14:50.539 --> 00:14:52.879 That seems to be the driving force now. So to 00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:55.379 really understand the MPH brand, we have to look 00:14:55.379 --> 00:14:57.600 at how his personal life intersects with all 00:14:57.600 --> 00:15:00.120 this. Yeah. Especially his journey with the sexuality. 00:15:00.500 --> 00:15:03.080 Absolutely. And it seems he was quite self -aware 00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:05.600 early on. He talked about dating Christine Taylor 00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:07.639 back in the late 90s. Right. And saying that 00:15:07.639 --> 00:15:10.139 relationship helped him realize he was gay. Like 00:15:10.139 --> 00:15:11.879 if it wasn't clicking with her. It probably means 00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:14.960 I'm gay. Yeah. That kind of introspection seems 00:15:14.960 --> 00:15:17.240 typical of how he approaches things. Which led 00:15:17.240 --> 00:15:19.659 to him coming out publicly in November 2006. 00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:22.799 And the timing, again, is fascinating. He's starring 00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:25.799 as Barney Stinson, Mr. Hetero, on a huge sitcom. 00:15:26.080 --> 00:15:28.480 And he just puts it out there. I am a very content 00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:31.039 gay man living my life to the fullest. It was 00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:33.179 a powerful moment. It kind of challenged audiences, 00:15:33.519 --> 00:15:35.500 showing that an actor's identity doesn't have 00:15:35.500 --> 00:15:37.759 to limit their roles. And his relationship with 00:15:37.759 --> 00:15:39.950 David Burtka has been very. very public since 00:15:39.950 --> 00:15:42.990 2004. Very. They've become this really visible 00:15:42.990 --> 00:15:45.750 couple. And their journey to marriage was tied 00:15:45.750 --> 00:15:48.269 into the fight for marriage equality. They got 00:15:48.269 --> 00:15:50.570 engaged years before they announced it. Yeah. 00:15:50.710 --> 00:15:53.330 Proposed to each other way back, but waited until 00:15:53.330 --> 00:15:55.669 the Marriage Equality Act passed in New York 00:15:55.669 --> 00:15:58.669 in 2011 to make it public on Twitter. A real 00:15:58.669 --> 00:16:01.429 statement. And they had their twins, Gideon and 00:16:01.429 --> 00:16:04.850 Harper, via surrogacy in 2010. Right. Then they 00:16:04.850 --> 00:16:07.639 finally got married in Italy in 2014. Pamela 00:16:07.639 --> 00:16:10.899 Fryman, the HIMYM director, officiated. Elton 00:16:10.899 --> 00:16:13.899 John performed. Pretty epic wedding. Cemented 00:16:13.899 --> 00:16:16.279 them as this major Hollywood family. They even 00:16:16.279 --> 00:16:19.080 sold their Harlem townhouse for nearly $7 million 00:16:19.080 --> 00:16:22.620 in 2022. So, you know, they're doing okay. Seems 00:16:22.620 --> 00:16:25.519 like it. Now let's talk magic, because this isn't 00:16:25.519 --> 00:16:27.940 just a minor hobby for him. Oh no, he's a serious 00:16:27.940 --> 00:16:31.220 magic enthusiast. Especially card magic, performance 00:16:31.220 --> 00:16:33.379 magic. And he brings it into his work, right? 00:16:33.620 --> 00:16:35.700 Whoa! Barney did magic, his character on American 00:16:35.700 --> 00:16:38.529 Horror Story did. Yeah. Even on Glee, he weaves 00:16:38.529 --> 00:16:40.529 it in. It's part of his toolkit. And the magic 00:16:40.529 --> 00:16:43.570 community recognizes his dedication. He won the 00:16:43.570 --> 00:16:46.710 Tannins Magic Louie Award in 2006, hosted the 00:16:46.710 --> 00:16:48.870 World Magic Awards. And he was president of the 00:16:48.870 --> 00:16:50.470 Magic Castle. President of the board of directors, 00:16:50.549 --> 00:16:53.370 yeah. From 2011 to 2014, that's a serious leadership 00:16:53.370 --> 00:16:55.750 role in the heart of the magic world. He really 00:16:55.750 --> 00:16:58.889 commits. Okay, and philanthropy, where does he 00:16:58.889 --> 00:17:02.450 focus his efforts? A lot of it aligns with his 00:17:02.450 --> 00:17:06.210 life and career. LGBTQ causes, AIDS research 00:17:06.210 --> 00:17:09.190 and support, organizations like the Trevor Project, 00:17:09.470 --> 00:17:12.089 AIDS Healthcare Foundation, Elton John AIDS Foundation, 00:17:12.769 --> 00:17:15.589 Broadway Cares Equity, Fights AIDS. Makes sense. 00:17:15.630 --> 00:17:17.970 Connecting his platform to causes he cares about. 00:17:18.130 --> 00:17:19.990 Yeah, and he even did that fashion collaboration 00:17:19.990 --> 00:17:22.769 with Ron Dorff, donating proceeds to World Central 00:17:22.769 --> 00:17:25.450 Kitchen, using his brand for charitable work, 00:17:25.470 --> 00:17:27.470 too. We also need to touch on that controversy 00:17:27.470 --> 00:17:30.579 that resurfaced. the Amy Winehouse incident from 00:17:30.579 --> 00:17:33.680 2011. Right. The Halloween party where the unfortunate 00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:35.880 meat platter resembling her corpse was served 00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:37.839 not long after her death. He came back up in 00:17:37.839 --> 00:17:41.259 2022 and he apologized publicly then. Yeah. It's 00:17:41.259 --> 00:17:43.180 kind of a stark reminder of the tightrope walk 00:17:43.180 --> 00:17:46.000 involved in having that edgy satirical persona 00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:49.119 he cultivated. Sometimes the irony or the boundary 00:17:49.119 --> 00:17:52.460 pushing can cross a line into poor taste or insensitivity. 00:17:52.970 --> 00:17:55.470 It shows how hard it is to manage that kind of 00:17:55.470 --> 00:17:58.529 complex public image. 247 hashtag tag outro. 00:17:58.750 --> 00:18:02.150 So wrapping this all up, looking back at this 00:18:02.150 --> 00:18:06.410 incredible career, the real aha moment for me 00:18:06.410 --> 00:18:08.450 is just the sheer audacity of the reinvention. 00:18:08.509 --> 00:18:10.670 Right. Going from duty to Hedwig is one thing, 00:18:10.710 --> 00:18:13.109 but doing that while also becoming the face of 00:18:13.109 --> 00:18:15.970 the Tony Awards, pioneering web series like Dr. 00:18:16.049 --> 00:18:19.029 Horrible, writing bestselling kids books. It's 00:18:19.029 --> 00:18:21.670 mind boggling. He just never stayed still. Never. 00:18:21.690 --> 00:18:24.619 And I think. The synthesized takeaway, the core 00:18:24.619 --> 00:18:26.519 of his success, is this mastery of perception. 00:18:26.799 --> 00:18:29.200 He learned how to play with how people saw him. 00:18:29.319 --> 00:18:30.640 How do you mean? Well, first he needed to break 00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:33.920 the doogie image, so he embraces this wild, satirical 00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:35.960 version of himself in Harold and Kumar to show 00:18:35.960 --> 00:18:37.720 he's in on the joke, that he's got edge. Right, 00:18:37.799 --> 00:18:39.779 the self -parody. Yeah, then he uses these incredibly 00:18:39.779 --> 00:18:42.680 demanding stage roles, cabaret, headwig, to prove 00:18:42.680 --> 00:18:45.579 his serious acting talent beyond any doubt. Real 00:18:45.579 --> 00:18:48.319 artistic credibility. And then uses the fame 00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:51.509 from HIMYM in hosting. To bring his niche passions 00:18:51.509 --> 00:18:54.230 like magic or deep cut musical theater or even 00:18:54.230 --> 00:18:56.970 puzzle games to a huge audience. He's like the 00:18:56.970 --> 00:19:00.029 ultimate popularizer of cool, slightly nerdy 00:19:00.029 --> 00:19:02.849 things. He makes the niche mainstream through 00:19:02.849 --> 00:19:05.769 his own broad appeal. He's a curator, like you 00:19:05.769 --> 00:19:08.349 said. Which brings us to our final thought for 00:19:08.349 --> 00:19:10.940 you, the listener. We know he fears repetition. 00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:13.539 He's conquered TV acting, film acting, Broadway, 00:19:13.880 --> 00:19:16.980 hosting, writing, producing, even game design. 00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:18.900 Pretty much every corner of entertainment. So 00:19:18.900 --> 00:19:21.519 the question is, what's left? Is he constantly 00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:24.799 hunting for that next totally new medium or format 00:19:24.799 --> 00:19:27.000 to master? We know he's got roles coming up in 00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:30.069 Dexter. Resurrection and a Deadpool VR game. 00:19:30.230 --> 00:19:32.690 Which are still within acting, mostly. Exactly. 00:19:32.710 --> 00:19:35.109 So where does the multi -hyphenate magician go 00:19:35.109 --> 00:19:37.369 next when he seems to have already done it all? 00:19:37.529 --> 00:19:39.710 What's the ultimate non -repetitive challenge 00:19:39.710 --> 00:19:42.670 for NPH? Something for you to ponder until our 00:19:42.670 --> 00:19:43.490 next deep dive.