WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.339 Welcome back to The Deep Dive. Today we're looking 00:00:02.339 --> 00:00:06.139 at an actor, someone whose fame is built on this 00:00:06.139 --> 00:00:08.640 really fascinating contradiction. Right. He got 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:11.820 world famous for roles where you literally couldn't 00:00:11.820 --> 00:00:15.080 see his face. You know, often buried under tons 00:00:15.080 --> 00:00:18.140 of really complex, demanding prosthetics. Yeah, 00:00:18.219 --> 00:00:22.199 heavy stuff. And yet his voice, that voice, it's 00:00:22.199 --> 00:00:25.199 so unique, instantly recognizable, that gravelly 00:00:25.199 --> 00:00:28.039 sound. It's become like one of the most famous 00:00:28.039 --> 00:00:30.760 sounds in media. Absolutely. It's almost a character 00:00:30.760 --> 00:00:33.579 in itself. Exactly. So we're embarking on a deep 00:00:33.579 --> 00:00:36.619 dive into the extraordinary career of Ron Perlman. 00:00:36.740 --> 00:00:39.700 Such a great case study in, well, transformation, 00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:42.829 really. and artistic commitment. Ron Perlman's 00:00:42.829 --> 00:00:44.750 been working pretty much nonstop since 1975. 00:00:45.210 --> 00:00:46.990 Still going strong. Totally. And what really 00:00:46.990 --> 00:00:49.030 defines him is this constant shift, you know, 00:00:49.070 --> 00:00:51.390 from these really intense physical supporting 00:00:51.390 --> 00:00:54.210 roles to being the leading man hidden under layers 00:00:54.210 --> 00:00:57.009 of fantasy makeup. And then at the same time, 00:00:57.030 --> 00:00:59.270 becoming the voice, the defining vocal identity 00:00:59.270 --> 00:01:02.250 for these huge franchises. So our mission today 00:01:02.250 --> 00:01:05.489 is to kind of synthesize that journey. How does 00:01:05.489 --> 00:01:07.930 a character actor not just, you know, break out 00:01:07.930 --> 00:01:10.290 of the supporting box, but actually change? how 00:01:10.290 --> 00:01:12.810 we think about leading men, especially in genre 00:01:12.810 --> 00:01:15.189 films. We're talking about the guy who won a 00:01:15.189 --> 00:01:17.269 Golden Globe for playing Vincent, making this 00:01:17.269 --> 00:01:19.890 creature totally endearing. Right, BD and the 00:01:19.890 --> 00:01:22.609 Beast. Who became the absolute definitive hellboy 00:01:22.609 --> 00:01:26.010 on screen and who anchors the whole vibe of the 00:01:26.010 --> 00:01:28.129 Fallout universe with just, what, four words? 00:01:28.390 --> 00:01:32.569 War. War never changes. Legendary. And the longevity, 00:01:32.629 --> 00:01:35.370 it's just staggering when you look at the sources. 00:01:35.530 --> 00:01:37.629 It really is. It's like a masterclass in adapting. 00:01:37.829 --> 00:01:40.689 He moves so seamlessly from working with these 00:01:40.689 --> 00:01:42.930 visionary directors, people like Guillermo del 00:01:42.930 --> 00:01:46.269 Toro or Jean -Pierre Jeunet, to anchoring massive 00:01:46.269 --> 00:01:49.269 TV hits like Sons of Anarchy. And then there's 00:01:49.269 --> 00:01:51.650 this whole other huge career, almost invisible. 00:01:52.140 --> 00:01:54.239 in animation and video games. It's a portfolio 00:01:54.239 --> 00:01:57.379 built on, well, taking risks, wouldn't you say, 00:01:57.480 --> 00:01:59.659 and really committing to playing the outsider? 00:01:59.920 --> 00:02:02.659 Absolutely. That's the core thread. OK, so let's 00:02:02.659 --> 00:02:05.239 unpack all of this. And I think the best place 00:02:05.239 --> 00:02:07.859 to start is right at the beginning. Let's look 00:02:07.859 --> 00:02:10.259 at the foundations, what shaped his view of himself 00:02:10.259 --> 00:02:12.780 and how that might have guided his choices as 00:02:12.780 --> 00:02:15.180 an actor. Right. So Perlman's identity, it's 00:02:15.180 --> 00:02:17.689 deeply rooted in New York City. He was born Ronald 00:02:17.689 --> 00:02:21.449 N. Perlman, April 13, 1950. Washington Heights, 00:02:21.710 --> 00:02:24.490 Manhattan, specifically. Okay. Comes from a Jewish 00:02:24.490 --> 00:02:27.590 background and his parents. They had this interesting 00:02:27.590 --> 00:02:29.870 mix of jobs, kind of typical for New York back 00:02:29.870 --> 00:02:32.650 then, blending the artistic with the practical. 00:02:33.110 --> 00:02:35.229 Tell me more about that. That family background 00:02:35.229 --> 00:02:37.349 sounds like it could give us some clues. Well, 00:02:37.389 --> 00:02:39.789 his mother. Dorothy, her maiden name was Rosen. 00:02:39.949 --> 00:02:42.050 She worked for the city, a municipal employee, 00:02:42.229 --> 00:02:45.050 so kind of that stable civic base. Right. But 00:02:45.050 --> 00:02:47.710 his father, Bertram, or Bert as he was known, 00:02:47.909 --> 00:02:51.370 he was both a jazz drummer and a television repairman. 00:02:51.509 --> 00:02:54.069 Oh, wow. That's quite a combination. Isn't it? 00:02:54.069 --> 00:02:56.750 That sort of working class duality. Yeah. You 00:02:56.750 --> 00:02:59.110 know, the creative rhythm of jazz and the nuts 00:02:59.110 --> 00:03:01.770 and bolts technical skill of fixing TVs. Maybe, 00:03:01.909 --> 00:03:04.449 just maybe, you see an echo of that in Pearlman's 00:03:04.449 --> 00:03:07.030 own career later on. The blend of artistry and 00:03:07.030 --> 00:03:09.780 sheer heart. That's a really interesting parallel, 00:03:09.919 --> 00:03:12.900 the art and the craft. It seems to fit. And his 00:03:12.900 --> 00:03:15.400 relationship with his father, Bert, was apparently 00:03:15.400 --> 00:03:18.919 really crucial. Formative. Okay. But maybe the 00:03:18.919 --> 00:03:20.860 most important biographical detail, the one that 00:03:20.860 --> 00:03:23.280 really unlocks things, comes from Perlman himself. 00:03:24.099 --> 00:03:26.680 He talked about it back in 1988, right when he 00:03:26.680 --> 00:03:28.800 was hitting that first big wave of fame. What 00:03:28.800 --> 00:03:31.680 did he say? He spoke very openly about his childhood 00:03:31.680 --> 00:03:34.780 struggles. He said he was, and this is his quote, 00:03:34.919 --> 00:03:38.020 terribly overweight as a young kid. and that 00:03:38.020 --> 00:03:40.360 this led directly to having a really low self 00:03:40.360 --> 00:03:43.699 -image. Wow. Okay, so that's the core right there, 00:03:43.759 --> 00:03:45.860 isn't it? The emotional engine for his whole 00:03:45.860 --> 00:03:48.659 artistic path. Exactly. And he didn't just mention 00:03:48.659 --> 00:03:52.719 it offhand. He drew a very clear line from feeling 00:03:52.719 --> 00:03:55.139 like an outsider as a kid to the kinds of roles 00:03:55.139 --> 00:03:57.379 he was drawn to later. Right. This childhood 00:03:57.379 --> 00:03:59.860 experience, he specifically said, is what attracts 00:03:59.860 --> 00:04:02.539 him to portraying, quote, these sorts of deformed 00:04:02.539 --> 00:04:05.379 people who are very endearing. Deformed but endearing. 00:04:05.439 --> 00:04:08.639 That phrase says so much. It really does. And 00:04:08.639 --> 00:04:10.360 that's the essential insight, I think, that we 00:04:10.360 --> 00:04:11.979 need to kind of keep in mind as we go through 00:04:11.979 --> 00:04:15.080 his career. His big break, his initial fame, 00:04:15.240 --> 00:04:17.220 it wasn't playing the conventionally handsome 00:04:17.220 --> 00:04:19.600 hero. No, definitely not. It was these deeply 00:04:19.600 --> 00:04:22.139 misunderstood, physically challenging characters, 00:04:22.459 --> 00:04:25.379 roles that let him embody that pain of being 00:04:25.379 --> 00:04:28.079 an outsider, but then also show their inner worth, 00:04:28.240 --> 00:04:30.540 their morality. It feels like a kind of deep 00:04:30.540 --> 00:04:33.180 personal validation through his art, turning 00:04:33.180 --> 00:04:35.779 what he felt was a disadvantage into a strength. 00:04:36.199 --> 00:04:38.339 Yeah, it puts roles like Vincent in Beauty and 00:04:38.339 --> 00:04:41.459 the Beast and definitely Hellboy later on into 00:04:41.459 --> 00:04:43.860 such sharp focus. These characters are defined 00:04:43.860 --> 00:04:46.319 by being physically different, imposing even. 00:04:46.379 --> 00:04:48.800 Absolutely. But their stories are all about heroism, 00:04:48.980 --> 00:04:51.800 love, finding acceptance. They look tough, maybe 00:04:51.800 --> 00:04:53.959 monstrous, but they're fundamentally vulnerable 00:04:53.959 --> 00:04:57.279 inside. Perfectly put. In that drive to perform, 00:04:57.540 --> 00:04:59.839 it got a major boost from his dad. Perlman said 00:04:59.839 --> 00:05:03.170 he had a very close relationship with Bert. The 00:05:03.170 --> 00:05:06.889 jazz drummer TV repairman. That's the one. His 00:05:06.889 --> 00:05:09.069 father became his biggest champion, apparently. 00:05:09.290 --> 00:05:11.750 It was Bert, who saw him in a college production 00:05:11.750 --> 00:05:14.389 of Guys and Dolls and told him, basically, you 00:05:14.389 --> 00:05:16.850 have to do this. You have to pursue acting. That's 00:05:16.850 --> 00:05:19.350 amazing. That parental belief can make all the 00:05:19.350 --> 00:05:22.009 difference. It really can. That external push, 00:05:22.170 --> 00:05:24.050 maybe that gave him the courage to really go 00:05:24.050 --> 00:05:26.410 for it professionally. And his path wasn't, like, 00:05:26.410 --> 00:05:28.250 accidental. He didn't just stumble into Hollywood. 00:05:28.449 --> 00:05:31.449 This was serious, dedicated training we're talking 00:05:31.449 --> 00:05:33.970 about. Oh, absolutely. He graduated from George 00:05:33.970 --> 00:05:37.089 Washington High School in 67, then got his Bachelor 00:05:37.089 --> 00:05:40.829 of Arts from Lehman College in 1971. OK, solid 00:05:40.829 --> 00:05:42.970 undergraduate work. But then he went further. 00:05:43.069 --> 00:05:45.949 He committed to graduate studies. He didn't just 00:05:45.949 --> 00:05:47.709 treat acting as, you know, something you just 00:05:47.709 --> 00:05:49.790 pick up. He went to the University of Minnesota. 00:05:49.949 --> 00:05:52.569 Right. And graduated with a master's degree in 00:05:52.569 --> 00:05:56.410 theater arts in 1973. A master's. OK, that signals 00:05:56.410 --> 00:05:59.459 a real depth of commitment. It really does. To 00:05:59.459 --> 00:06:01.720 dedicate yourself to two degrees, finishing with 00:06:01.720 --> 00:06:05.100 a master's in theater. It shows this belief in 00:06:05.100 --> 00:06:07.660 the craft, the technique, the intellectual side 00:06:07.660 --> 00:06:10.139 of acting, and that rigorous training probably 00:06:10.139 --> 00:06:13.199 prepared him perfectly for the kind of technically 00:06:13.199 --> 00:06:15.660 demanding roles he landed early on. Especially 00:06:15.660 --> 00:06:18.240 those first film roles, which, as we'll see, 00:06:18.279 --> 00:06:20.860 required incredible skill and patience, maybe 00:06:20.860 --> 00:06:24.100 more than just glamour. So Ron Perlman's actual 00:06:24.100 --> 00:06:26.800 screen career, it kicked off, well... Fairly 00:06:26.800 --> 00:06:29.819 quietly, wouldn't you say? On TV. Yeah. A soap 00:06:29.819 --> 00:06:32.639 opera start. Ryan's Hope in 1979. Pretty standard 00:06:32.639 --> 00:06:34.420 way for actors to get their feet wet back then. 00:06:34.519 --> 00:06:37.240 Right. Paying the bills. Exactly. But then, just 00:06:37.240 --> 00:06:40.699 two years later, 1981, his feature film debut, 00:06:40.939 --> 00:06:43.779 that was anything but standard. Ah, this must 00:06:43.779 --> 00:06:45.740 be Quest for Fire. That's the one. Jean -Jacques 00:06:45.740 --> 00:06:48.439 and Odd's film. Perlman played Amokar, a Neanderthal 00:06:48.439 --> 00:06:50.899 character. And this role, right out of the gate, 00:06:51.040 --> 00:06:53.779 it just cemented his willingness to go all in 00:06:53.779 --> 00:06:55.839 on physical transformation. Totally unrecognizable, 00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:58.120 I imagine. Completely. It was a nonverbal role. 00:06:58.220 --> 00:07:01.699 Relied entirely on primal physical acting. And 00:07:01.699 --> 00:07:04.420 crucially, tons of heavy makeup and prosthetics. 00:07:04.660 --> 00:07:07.600 Wow. So that master's degree in theater arts 00:07:07.600 --> 00:07:10.639 got put to the test immediately. Performing entirely 00:07:10.639 --> 00:07:12.819 through makeup, just using body language and 00:07:12.819 --> 00:07:15.149 sound. It must have been incredibly demanding. 00:07:15.350 --> 00:07:18.449 A real trial by fire, you could say. Yeah, literally 00:07:18.449 --> 00:07:22.189 a quest for fire. Right. And it's worth pausing 00:07:22.189 --> 00:07:24.769 here, you know, because it highlights how often 00:07:24.769 --> 00:07:27.850 actors get close to just giving up. Really? Even 00:07:27.850 --> 00:07:31.009 after a start like that? Apparently so. And Odd 00:07:31.009 --> 00:07:33.540 the director. who clearly saw something special 00:07:33.540 --> 00:07:35.819 in him early on, revealed later that when he 00:07:35.819 --> 00:07:38.360 contacted Perlman again, this was for The Names 00:07:38.360 --> 00:07:41.939 of Rose in 1986. Ah, playing Salvatore, the hunchback 00:07:41.939 --> 00:07:45.319 monk. Another transformation role. Exactly. Anat 00:07:45.319 --> 00:07:48.000 said that when he reached out, Perlman was seriously, 00:07:48.319 --> 00:07:50.800 genuinely considering quitting acting altogether. 00:07:51.199 --> 00:07:53.399 No way. That's incredible to think about. We 00:07:53.399 --> 00:07:55.139 almost lost him. What was the issue? Was the 00:07:55.139 --> 00:07:58.019 industry just not... getting it, not seeing the 00:07:58.019 --> 00:07:59.920 commitment behind the makeup. It seems likely, 00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:02.100 doesn't it? He's proving his chops in these intense, 00:08:02.279 --> 00:08:04.939 sometimes difficult European films, doing incredible 00:08:04.939 --> 00:08:07.860 physical work. But maybe not getting the mainstream 00:08:07.860 --> 00:08:10.620 recognition or consistent work. That feels right. 00:08:11.079 --> 00:08:13.939 But thankfully, he stuck with it. Because the 00:08:13.939 --> 00:08:17.439 very next year, 1987, brought the role that changed 00:08:17.439 --> 00:08:19.920 absolutely everything. OK, this has to be Vincent. 00:08:20.199 --> 00:08:23.199 Vincent. Yeah. The lead role opposite Linda Hamilton 00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:25.819 in the TV series Beauty and the Beast, playing 00:08:25.819 --> 00:08:29.040 this gentle sort of lion faced man living beneath 00:08:29.040 --> 00:08:32.860 New York City. ran from 87 to 90. And this, this 00:08:32.860 --> 00:08:35.340 was where that whole theme, the endearing outsider, 00:08:35.500 --> 00:08:37.580 the thing rooted in his own childhood feelings, 00:08:37.820 --> 00:08:41.139 just exploded into the mainstream. Completely. 00:08:41.179 --> 00:08:43.340 And it was framed as a romance, primarily, not 00:08:43.340 --> 00:08:45.320 just a creature feature. That was key. And the 00:08:45.320 --> 00:08:47.559 critical acclaim was pretty immediate, wasn't 00:08:47.559 --> 00:08:49.980 it? Oh, yeah. And the prestige factor was huge. 00:08:50.159 --> 00:08:53.710 In 1989, that role won him a Golden Globe. Best 00:08:53.710 --> 00:08:55.470 performance by an actor in a television series. 00:08:55.649 --> 00:08:58.549 A golden globe for a role entirely encased in 00:08:58.549 --> 00:09:01.149 a full head prosthetic. That's monumental. It 00:09:01.149 --> 00:09:02.789 really is. It didn't just say he's a talented 00:09:02.789 --> 00:09:05.629 actor. It specifically validated the idea that 00:09:05.629 --> 00:09:08.250 transformation itself, performing through that 00:09:08.250 --> 00:09:10.529 barrier, could communicate profound humanity 00:09:10.529 --> 00:09:13.710 and earn major awards. And that success, that 00:09:13.710 --> 00:09:16.909 validation, it seemed to open the door to one 00:09:16.909 --> 00:09:18.730 of the most important creative relationships 00:09:18.730 --> 00:09:21.129 of his career, right? The partnership with Guillermo 00:09:21.129 --> 00:09:23.110 del Toro. Absolutely. That's one of the great, 00:09:23.450 --> 00:09:25.669 actor -director collaborations in modern genre 00:09:25.669 --> 00:09:28.750 cinema. Decades long, built on this incredible 00:09:28.750 --> 00:09:31.490 mutual artistic trust. Where did it start? It 00:09:31.490 --> 00:09:33.730 goes all the way back to del Toro's very first 00:09:33.730 --> 00:09:37.309 feature film, Kronos, in 1992. Wow, right at 00:09:37.309 --> 00:09:39.490 the beginning for del Toro, too. Exactly. Perlman 00:09:39.490 --> 00:09:42.009 gives del Toro an actor who's just completely 00:09:42.009 --> 00:09:44.470 fearless about the physical demands, the makeup, 00:09:44.549 --> 00:09:47.279 whatever it takes. but who can also deliver that 00:09:47.279 --> 00:09:50.080 complex, dramatic nuance that del Toro always 00:09:50.080 --> 00:09:53.299 wants, even from his monsters or his antiheroes. 00:09:53.320 --> 00:09:55.299 And you can literally track their careers together 00:09:55.299 --> 00:09:58.240 through the films. After Kronos, they jumped 00:09:58.240 --> 00:10:00.980 into big -budget comic book territory with Blade 00:10:00.980 --> 00:10:03.399 Sick in 2002. Pullman played Reinhardt. Yeah, 00:10:03.440 --> 00:10:05.299 the blood -packed guy. Yeah. And then came the 00:10:05.299 --> 00:10:07.360 big one, the defining character of their partnership. 00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:11.700 Hellboy. Hellboy, 2004. And the sequel, Hellboy 00:10:11.700 --> 00:10:15.399 II, The Golden Army, in 2008. These films just 00:10:15.399 --> 00:10:17.759 solidified Perlman as the live action Hellboy. 00:10:17.840 --> 00:10:20.559 It wasn't just another role. No, it felt like 00:10:20.559 --> 00:10:23.919 the ultimate expression of his whole career theme 00:10:23.919 --> 00:10:25.980 up to that point. Right. The physically intimidating 00:10:25.980 --> 00:10:29.200 figure looks like a demon, kind of grumpy all 00:10:29.200 --> 00:10:32.039 the time. Yeah. But underneath, he's this soulful 00:10:32.039 --> 00:10:34.139 outsider who just wants a beer and maybe some 00:10:34.139 --> 00:10:36.299 acceptance. Yeah. All those years working with 00:10:36.299 --> 00:10:39.379 prosthetics, it culminated in this blockbuster 00:10:39.379 --> 00:10:42.220 lead. And del Toro kept bringing him back. Even 00:10:42.220 --> 00:10:44.779 in different contexts. Always. Yeah. Even as 00:10:44.779 --> 00:10:47.440 their careers evolved, he pops up as Hannibal 00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:50.559 Chow's sort of rival in the giant monster movie 00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:53.700 Pacific Rim in 2013. Great cameo. And then back 00:10:53.700 --> 00:10:56.220 to more restrained, prestige stuff, playing that 00:10:56.220 --> 00:10:58.299 crime boss character in the beautiful period 00:10:58.299 --> 00:11:01.620 piece Nightmare Alley in 2021. And most recently, 00:11:01.639 --> 00:11:04.019 he even voiced a character for Del Toro in the 00:11:04.019 --> 00:11:06.740 stop motion Pinocchio in 2022. So the connection 00:11:06.740 --> 00:11:08.980 isn't tied to just live action or just makeup 00:11:08.980 --> 00:11:11.779 roles. Not at all. It shows the trust runs deep. 00:11:12.059 --> 00:11:14.620 Perlman is like a muse for him, someone who can 00:11:14.620 --> 00:11:17.039 deliver, whether it's a tiny part or a huge lead, 00:11:17.259 --> 00:11:19.759 bringing that necessary weight to del Toro's 00:11:19.759 --> 00:11:22.320 fantastic worlds. That central partnership really 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:24.559 anchored him, but it also seemed to free him 00:11:24.559 --> 00:11:26.179 up to take on other interesting international 00:11:26.179 --> 00:11:28.659 roles, too, like his first actual leading film 00:11:28.659 --> 00:11:32.240 role. Right. That was in 1995. One, in The City 00:11:32.240 --> 00:11:35.139 of Lost Children, that visually stunning French 00:11:35.139 --> 00:11:38.480 film by Jean -Pierre Jeunet and Mark Caro, another 00:11:38.480 --> 00:11:40.980 very distinctive non -Hollywood choice. He really 00:11:40.980 --> 00:11:43.340 seemed drawn to those European auteurs early 00:11:43.340 --> 00:11:46.200 on. He did, but he also maintained a really strong 00:11:46.200 --> 00:11:49.519 presence in major Hollywood supporting roles. 00:11:50.059 --> 00:11:52.620 Through the late 90s and early 2000s. Yeah. Often 00:11:52.620 --> 00:11:54.960 playing that type, you know, the gruff, reliable 00:11:54.960 --> 00:11:57.519 soldier, maybe the tough antagonist. I'm thinking 00:11:57.519 --> 00:12:00.539 John Hanner in Alien Resurrection. Exactly. 1997. 00:12:00.799 --> 00:12:03.120 Or Kulikov, the Russian sniper and enemy at the 00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:05.500 gates in 2001. He even did a Star Trek film, 00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:08.779 Star Trek Nemesis in 2002. His presence just 00:12:08.779 --> 00:12:11.980 guarantees a certain kind of like grounded, weighty 00:12:11.980 --> 00:12:14.159 physicality. And speaking of reliable weight, 00:12:14.279 --> 00:12:17.279 Hellboy. That second iconic lead, it wasn't just 00:12:17.279 --> 00:12:19.139 the two live action films, was it? He really 00:12:19.139 --> 00:12:22.059 owned that character. Totally. So much so that 00:12:22.059 --> 00:12:24.779 he came back to do the voice for the direct -to 00:12:24.779 --> 00:12:28.120 -video animated movies. Hellboy. Sword of Storms 00:12:28.120 --> 00:12:31.379 in Hellboy. Blood and Iron. He is just inseparable 00:12:31.379 --> 00:12:33.100 from that character in the public mind. Yeah, 00:12:33.139 --> 00:12:35.860 absolutely. And more recently in cinema, he still 00:12:35.860 --> 00:12:38.679 pops up delivering these really memorable, often 00:12:38.679 --> 00:12:41.600 complex supporting roles. He shifts between genres 00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:44.000 so easily. Like, think about Nino, the really 00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:46.960 volatile... kind of scary crime boss and drive 00:12:46.960 --> 00:12:50.039 back in 2011 oh yeah great performance very menacing 00:12:50.039 --> 00:12:52.419 or playing that dismissive powerful military 00:12:52.419 --> 00:12:55.580 general benedict drask in the big satire don't 00:12:55.580 --> 00:12:58.940 look up in 2021 still commanding the screen but 00:12:58.940 --> 00:13:01.580 his career isn't just film we absolutely have 00:13:01.580 --> 00:13:05.039 to talk about his other huge defining tv role 00:13:05.039 --> 00:13:07.440 the one where he finally shed the prosthetics 00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:10.769 but kept all the menace Clay Morrow. Ah, Sons 00:13:10.769 --> 00:13:14.210 of Anarchy. Yeah. Playing Clay from 2008 to 2013 00:13:14.210 --> 00:13:16.889 was such a crucial pivot for him. How so? Because 00:13:16.889 --> 00:13:18.470 this was a totally different kind of physical 00:13:18.470 --> 00:13:20.909 acting. He's the national president of this outlaw 00:13:20.909 --> 00:13:23.409 motorcycle club, a character defined by, you 00:13:23.409 --> 00:13:25.549 know, rugged aging authority, simmering violence, 00:13:25.769 --> 00:13:27.570 the wheat of leadership. And completely visible 00:13:27.570 --> 00:13:30.350 this time. Exactly. No makeup hiding him. He 00:13:30.350 --> 00:13:32.909 had to use his own frame, his own face, his natural 00:13:32.909 --> 00:13:36.389 expressions to convey all that threat and complexity. 00:13:36.490 --> 00:13:38.870 It was such a sharp contrast. to the hidden roles 00:13:38.870 --> 00:13:41.169 that first made him famous. It really proved 00:13:41.169 --> 00:13:44.149 his range went way beyond fantasy or creature 00:13:44.149 --> 00:13:47.149 features. He could nail gritty, contemporary 00:13:47.149 --> 00:13:50.370 American crime drama just as effectively. Definitely. 00:13:50.529 --> 00:13:52.830 And he popped up in other notable series over 00:13:52.830 --> 00:13:55.730 the years, too. Things like Highlander, the series 00:13:55.730 --> 00:13:58.029 The Outer Limits, that remake of The Magnificent 00:13:58.029 --> 00:14:00.649 Seven. Right. And more recently, the Amazon series 00:14:00.649 --> 00:14:03.549 Hand of God, where he played the lead, a troubled 00:14:03.549 --> 00:14:06.440 judge. And he was also in Startup. playing Wes 00:14:06.440 --> 00:14:08.440 Chandler. He keeps finding these interesting 00:14:08.440 --> 00:14:11.379 TD projects. It's an incredibly varied resume. 00:14:11.559 --> 00:14:13.559 Before we dive into the voice work, which is 00:14:13.559 --> 00:14:15.480 a whole other universe, you mentioned something 00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:17.419 about an award -winning commercial. Oh, yeah. 00:14:17.480 --> 00:14:19.720 Just a quick note, but kind of interesting. In 00:14:19.720 --> 00:14:23.080 2003, he starred in this... very atmospheric 00:14:23.080 --> 00:14:26.100 Stella Artois commercial called Devil's Island. 00:14:26.299 --> 00:14:28.899 And it actually won a silver award at the British 00:14:28.899 --> 00:14:31.179 Advertising Awards that year. It just goes to 00:14:31.179 --> 00:14:35.039 show that his unique brand, that kind of authoritative, 00:14:35.220 --> 00:14:39.440 slightly dangerous presence, it translates everywhere. 00:14:39.639 --> 00:14:42.279 Even high -end beer ads. Okay, so now we shift 00:14:42.279 --> 00:14:44.440 gears completely. We move into the part of his 00:14:44.440 --> 00:14:46.960 career where his face, whether it was under makeup 00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:49.759 or not, just disappears. And it's all about the 00:14:49.759 --> 00:14:52.850 voice. The instrument. takes center stage yeah 00:14:52.850 --> 00:14:57.019 and it's truly wild to think that for millions, 00:14:57.019 --> 00:14:59.139 maybe even billions of people who play games 00:14:59.139 --> 00:15:01.799 or watch cartoons, his voice is actually more 00:15:01.799 --> 00:15:04.440 famous, more influential than his on -screen 00:15:04.440 --> 00:15:06.820 work. It's entirely possible. He really is the 00:15:06.820 --> 00:15:09.500 unseen giant of modern media in many ways. So 00:15:09.500 --> 00:15:11.600 this is where that voice, that unique, deep, 00:15:11.659 --> 00:15:14.460 gravelly texture really comes into its own. Absolutely. 00:15:14.600 --> 00:15:16.279 It just carries so much weight, so much history, 00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:18.940 instant authority. And it's given him these massive 00:15:18.940 --> 00:15:21.980 parallel careers in video games, animation, and 00:15:21.980 --> 00:15:24.330 narration. Let's start with gaming. Because, 00:15:24.409 --> 00:15:26.190 I mean, you have to start with the absolute peak, 00:15:26.250 --> 00:15:28.269 right? He has one of the most iconic, career 00:15:28.269 --> 00:15:30.509 -defining narration roles in the entire history 00:15:30.509 --> 00:15:33.769 of video games. No question. The narrator of 00:15:33.769 --> 00:15:36.690 the Fallout series. The post -apocalyptic games. 00:15:36.990 --> 00:15:38.870 He's been doing it since the first one back in 00:15:38.870 --> 00:15:41.730 1997. And he's still the voice. Still doing it. 00:15:41.950 --> 00:15:44.870 Amazing. And the power of that role, it kind 00:15:44.870 --> 00:15:48.350 of rests on that one simple, repeated line that 00:15:48.350 --> 00:15:50.779 just... perfectly sets the tone for that whole 00:15:50.779 --> 00:15:53.620 universe. Every gamer knows it. Every single 00:15:53.620 --> 00:15:57.179 one. That voice uttering the ultimate cynical 00:15:57.179 --> 00:16:01.879 truth about humanity and nuclear war. War. War 00:16:01.879 --> 00:16:05.379 never changes. Just hearing you say it in your 00:16:05.379 --> 00:16:07.700 voice gives me chills, thinking of his delivery. 00:16:07.899 --> 00:16:09.779 It's not just voiceover, is it? It feels like 00:16:09.779 --> 00:16:12.320 this profound historical statement. Exactly. 00:16:12.740 --> 00:16:14.940 Delivered with that sort of measured, world -weary 00:16:14.940 --> 00:16:18.059 cadence, it instantly gives game world this immense, 00:16:18.179 --> 00:16:19.879 tragic weight. It pulls you right in with just 00:16:19.879 --> 00:16:22.100 pure gravitas. Incredible. But he didn't just 00:16:22.100 --> 00:16:24.080 stop at the post -apocalypse in gaming. He's 00:16:24.080 --> 00:16:26.259 big in sci -fi, too. Oh, yeah. He played Fleet 00:16:26.259 --> 00:16:28.080 Admiral Terrence Hood, usually just called Lord 00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:30.299 Hood, the human commander in the huge Halo franchise. 00:16:30.659 --> 00:16:33.549 Right, Halo 2 and Halo 3. And it's interesting 00:16:33.549 --> 00:16:36.409 to contrast that role with Fallout. Lord Hood 00:16:36.409 --> 00:16:39.090 has this military authority, but also a kind 00:16:39.090 --> 00:16:41.330 of moral clarity that's very different from the 00:16:41.330 --> 00:16:43.690 bleakness of Fallout. Shows his range just between 00:16:43.690 --> 00:16:46.269 those two. He seems to be the go -to for authority 00:16:46.269 --> 00:16:49.029 figures. What other games has he done? His voice 00:16:49.029 --> 00:16:51.250 seems like it would fit so many genres. It really 00:16:51.250 --> 00:16:54.809 does. His gaming resume is extensive. He voiced 00:16:54.809 --> 00:16:56.830 Jagger Valance in The Chronicles of Riddick, 00:16:56.950 --> 00:17:00.190 Escape from Butcher Bay. He's even played Batman. 00:17:00.370 --> 00:17:02.850 Batman? Really? Yep, in Justice League Heroes. 00:17:03.289 --> 00:17:06.329 A very powerful, gravelly Batman, as you can 00:17:06.329 --> 00:17:09.069 imagine. He also did a voice in the Western Game 00:17:09.069 --> 00:17:12.250 Gun, Mayor Hoodoo Brown. Uh -huh. Great man. 00:17:12.309 --> 00:17:15.230 And what's really fascinating is how he sometimes 00:17:15.230 --> 00:17:18.470 transitions into, well, unexpected roles or roles 00:17:18.470 --> 00:17:20.950 that leverage his other work. Like what? Well, 00:17:21.049 --> 00:17:23.509 he voiced a character named Rust, who was a lead 00:17:23.509 --> 00:17:26.369 in the Biker Pack DLC for the game Payday 2. 00:17:26.589 --> 00:17:29.569 Ah, leaning into the Sons of Anarchy vibe. Exactly. 00:17:29.930 --> 00:17:32.430 And even more directly, his actual likeness, 00:17:32.430 --> 00:17:34.869 his face, and his voice were used for one of 00:17:34.869 --> 00:17:37.410 the main playable characters in the Zombies mode 00:17:37.410 --> 00:17:40.589 for Call of Duty. Black Ops 3rd, back in 2016. 00:17:41.259 --> 00:17:43.480 Whoa, okay. So he's literally in the game as 00:17:43.480 --> 00:17:46.000 himself, sort of. Kind of, yeah. Yeah. It shows 00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:48.660 how he crosses that line between just being a 00:17:48.660 --> 00:17:51.140 voice actor and becoming a full digital character 00:17:51.140 --> 00:17:53.539 sometimes. Okay, let's shift to animation then. 00:17:53.640 --> 00:17:56.420 Because his work in the DC Comics animated universe 00:17:56.420 --> 00:18:00.859 alone is just... Oh, absolutely. He's voiced 00:18:00.859 --> 00:18:04.559 this incredible gallery of iconic DC villains 00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:07.299 and heroes over the years. He's basically animation 00:18:07.299 --> 00:18:09.700 royalty in that world. You were some of the big 00:18:09.700 --> 00:18:12.140 ones. Well, he played the classic shape -shifting 00:18:12.140 --> 00:18:14.539 villain Clayface. He did that across Batman, 00:18:14.779 --> 00:18:17.180 the animated series, and then the new Batman 00:18:17.180 --> 00:18:19.579 Adventures. Right, the tragic version. Yeah, 00:18:19.660 --> 00:18:22.029 really memorable take. Then he voiced Slade, 00:18:22.049 --> 00:18:24.390 who is basically Deathstroke in the Teen Titans 00:18:24.390 --> 00:18:26.970 animated series. A really nuanced, calculating, 00:18:27.289 --> 00:18:29.710 genuinely intimidating villain. That was a great 00:18:29.710 --> 00:18:32.970 performance. But he wasn't only bad guys. He 00:18:32.970 --> 00:18:35.710 voiced the Kryptonian bad guy Jaxer in Superman, 00:18:35.950 --> 00:18:38.849 the animated series. But then he also voiced 00:18:38.849 --> 00:18:42.269 the hero, the new God Warrior Orion in Justice 00:18:42.269 --> 00:18:44.769 League and Justice League Unlimited. Okay, so 00:18:44.769 --> 00:18:48.369 heroes and villains. Yep. And later on, he voiced 00:18:48.369 --> 00:18:51.160 Sinestro, Green Lantern's arch nemesis. in Green 00:18:51.160 --> 00:18:53.539 Lantern, the animated series. It really feels 00:18:53.539 --> 00:18:55.500 like whenever they needed a voice that projected 00:18:55.500 --> 00:18:58.160 immense power, whether it was good power or evil 00:18:58.160 --> 00:19:00.319 power, they called Ron Perlman. Pretty much seems 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:04.099 that way. But maybe. Yeah. Maybe his most terrifying, 00:19:04.259 --> 00:19:08.039 most enduring villain voice role ever. is the 00:19:08.039 --> 00:19:11.200 lich oh from adventure time the lich this creature 00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:15.259 of just pure cosmic undead horror it's a master 00:19:15.259 --> 00:19:18.099 class in how to use voice to create genuine menace 00:19:18.099 --> 00:19:19.720 he voiced that character for a long time didn't 00:19:19.720 --> 00:19:22.779 he over a decade from 2011 right up until 2023 00:19:22.779 --> 00:19:25.599 in the spinoffs And what makes it so scary is 00:19:25.599 --> 00:19:28.539 how they synthesize his deep voice with this 00:19:28.539 --> 00:19:31.500 like unnatural decaying quality. It doesn't sound 00:19:31.500 --> 00:19:33.880 like just a person. It sounds like entropy given 00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:36.160 voice. Yeah, it's genuinely unsettling. That 00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:38.519 role defined cartoon horror for a whole generation 00:19:38.519 --> 00:19:41.119 of kids and adults, really. It really did. And 00:19:41.119 --> 00:19:42.960 it contrasts so sharply with some of his other 00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:46.519 more benevolent animation roles. Like he was 00:19:46.519 --> 00:19:48.660 Mr. Lancer in Danny Phantom. Right. The teacher. 00:19:49.019 --> 00:19:51.900 Totally different vibe. Completely. And he brought 00:19:51.900 --> 00:19:54.279 that commanding voice to feature animation, too. 00:19:54.440 --> 00:19:56.740 He was one of the Stabbington brothers, the thugs 00:19:56.740 --> 00:20:00.039 in Disney's Tangled. Ah, yes. And he played Jibalba, 00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:02.619 the kind of flamboyant god of the dark underworld 00:20:02.619 --> 00:20:05.119 in the Book of Life. That was a great fit, too. 00:20:05.319 --> 00:20:07.240 And we definitely have to mention his role in 00:20:07.240 --> 00:20:09.700 the Transformers universe. He voiced Optimus 00:20:09.700 --> 00:20:12.069 Primal. The maximal leader. Yep. First in the 00:20:12.069 --> 00:20:13.809 Transformers, Power of the Primes web series 00:20:13.809 --> 00:20:16.990 in 2018. And then he brought that same heroic 00:20:16.990 --> 00:20:20.230 leader voice to the big screen for the 2023 movie 00:20:20.230 --> 00:20:23.589 Transformers, Rise of the Beasts. So he's voicing 00:20:23.589 --> 00:20:26.210 these iconic leaders across different franchises. 00:20:26.210 --> 00:20:28.549 The demand is just constant. It really speaks 00:20:28.549 --> 00:20:31.630 volumes about how recognized and valued that 00:20:31.630 --> 00:20:34.089 specific vocal weight and texture is across the 00:20:34.089 --> 00:20:36.109 industry. Okay. And finally, just pure narration. 00:20:36.750 --> 00:20:39.029 where there's no character, just his voice guiding 00:20:39.029 --> 00:20:41.470 you. Right. He was the very distinct narrator 00:20:41.470 --> 00:20:44.410 for that kind of sensational show, 1000 Ways 00:20:44.410 --> 00:20:48.150 to Die. Remember that one? Vaguely, yeah. Gruesome 00:20:48.150 --> 00:20:50.829 stuff. Yeah, it ran from 2009 to 2012. Yeah. 00:20:50.930 --> 00:20:53.410 His voice gave it that serious, almost documentary 00:20:53.410 --> 00:20:55.849 feel, despite the often bizarre content. And 00:20:55.849 --> 00:20:57.950 you mentioned sports earlier. Yeah, for anyone 00:20:57.950 --> 00:21:01.049 who follows combat sports, specifically the UFC, 00:21:01.349 --> 00:21:04.049 his voice is synonymous with big fight nights. 00:21:04.309 --> 00:21:08.309 He narrates those powerful, cold open. promo 00:21:08.309 --> 00:21:10.650 packages for their major pay -per -view events 00:21:10.650 --> 00:21:13.190 setting the stage exactly when you hear that 00:21:13.190 --> 00:21:16.509 voice kick in you know the stakes are high the 00:21:16.509 --> 00:21:19.410 drama is serious it just sets the tone perfectly 00:21:19.410 --> 00:21:21.509 he also brought that power to literature right 00:21:21.509 --> 00:21:24.609 audiobook who did he narrated david benioff's 00:21:24.609 --> 00:21:27.589 novel city of thieves a really powerful historical 00:21:27.589 --> 00:21:30.730 story set during the siege of leningrad his voice 00:21:30.730 --> 00:21:34.029 is perfect for that kind of gritty dramatic storytelling 00:21:34.029 --> 00:21:36.150 it's just undeniable whether you picture him 00:21:36.150 --> 00:21:38.849 as vincent or clay Mauro or Hellboy or you don't 00:21:38.849 --> 00:21:41.589 picture him at all. That voice has become synonymous 00:21:41.589 --> 00:21:44.450 with epic scale, with authority and just reliable, 00:21:44.529 --> 00:21:47.150 compelling storytelling. OK, so let's transition 00:21:47.150 --> 00:21:49.609 now to the man himself outside of the makeup 00:21:49.609 --> 00:21:52.130 chair and the recording booth. His personal life. 00:21:52.150 --> 00:21:54.490 Well, it also reflects the journey of a long 00:21:54.490 --> 00:21:57.470 and pretty full career. His first marriage was 00:21:57.470 --> 00:21:59.910 to Opal Stone. She was an Afro -Jamaican jewelry 00:21:59.910 --> 00:22:03.049 designer. They got married way back on Valentine's 00:22:03.049 --> 00:22:06.200 Day, 1981. Wow. Valentine's Day. They were together 00:22:06.200 --> 00:22:08.720 for a long time then. They were. Built a life. 00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:11.599 Raised two kids together. Their daughter, Blake 00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:15.299 Amanda, born in 84. And their son, Brandon Avery, 00:22:15.420 --> 00:22:18.420 born in 1990. Okay. And it's kind of a neat little 00:22:18.420 --> 00:22:21.279 detail. Their son, Brandon, has also gone into 00:22:21.279 --> 00:22:23.980 the arts. He produces electronic music. Uses 00:22:23.980 --> 00:22:26.299 the stage name Delroy Edwards. Oh, interesting. 00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:28.819 Keeping the creative spirit going. Seems that 00:22:28.819 --> 00:22:32.000 way. Pearlman and Stone separated in May 2019, 00:22:32.279 --> 00:22:35.019 and he filed for divorce not long after. Okay. 00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:38.380 And he remarried. He did. He married Alison Dunbar. 00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:40.799 She was actually his co -star on that show's 00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:42.940 startup. Ah. They had been dating for about three 00:22:42.940 --> 00:22:45.160 years, and they got married in Italy in 2022. 00:22:45.700 --> 00:22:48.000 Seems like a new chapter. And you mentioned earlier 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:50.339 he wrote a memoir. Yes, and this feels important, 00:22:50.440 --> 00:22:52.500 maybe tied to that desire for emotional honesty 00:22:52.500 --> 00:22:55.519 we see in his roles. He wrote Easy Street, The 00:22:55.519 --> 00:22:57.720 Hard Way. A memoir. Came out in 2014. It's a 00:22:57.720 --> 00:23:00.740 hard way. Great title. Isn't it? And that book, 00:23:00.819 --> 00:23:03.779 his willingness to put his own story out there, 00:23:03.839 --> 00:23:06.279 warts and all, it kind of provides a bridge. 00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:09.819 to his more recent, very outspoken public persona. 00:23:10.039 --> 00:23:12.180 Yeah, because unlike a lot of actors who try 00:23:12.180 --> 00:23:14.819 to keep things separate, Perlman has been incredibly 00:23:14.819 --> 00:23:18.140 vocal about his politics. Extremely vocal. He 00:23:18.140 --> 00:23:20.579 identifies as a lifelong Democrat. And this wasn't 00:23:20.579 --> 00:23:23.019 just passive support. He got right into the thick 00:23:23.019 --> 00:23:25.079 of it, especially during the Trump presidency. 00:23:25.359 --> 00:23:28.779 Oh, absolutely. He became a really fierce, constant 00:23:28.779 --> 00:23:31.680 critic of President Trump, used his social media, 00:23:31.759 --> 00:23:34.359 especially Twitter, very directly. And this led 00:23:34.359 --> 00:23:37.470 to some specific... Pretty high profile confrontations. 00:23:37.569 --> 00:23:39.230 Right. I remember there was something with Donald 00:23:39.230 --> 00:23:41.410 Trump Jr. That's the main one. It got pretty 00:23:41.410 --> 00:23:44.250 heated. Donald Trump Jr. publicly called Perlman 00:23:44.250 --> 00:23:47.289 a coward. The accusation was that Perlman had 00:23:47.289 --> 00:23:49.849 stayed silent about the abuses committed by the 00:23:49.849 --> 00:23:52.089 producer Harvey Weinstein. Wow. OK, that's a 00:23:52.089 --> 00:23:54.349 heavy accusation, bringing Weinstein into it. 00:23:54.349 --> 00:23:57.269 Very public, very adversarial. Exactly. And it 00:23:57.269 --> 00:23:59.529 forced Perlman into this really difficult spot, 00:23:59.769 --> 00:24:02.690 having to address a painful industry scandal 00:24:02.690 --> 00:24:05.500 in this confrontational way. How did Perlman 00:24:05.500 --> 00:24:09.599 respond, knowing his directness? His response 00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:14.480 was, well, characteristic Perlman. Very blunt, 00:24:14.680 --> 00:24:17.880 very provocative. He didn't just deny being silent. 00:24:18.059 --> 00:24:20.940 He responded by telling a very specific and, 00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:23.460 frankly, pretty graphic story about an alleged 00:24:23.460 --> 00:24:25.819 interaction he had had with Weinstein years before. 00:24:26.279 --> 00:24:30.069 Perlman claimed that he intentionally... Well, 00:24:30.069 --> 00:24:32.289 he said he urinated on his own hand right before 00:24:32.289 --> 00:24:33.930 he's supposed to shake Weinstein's hand at some 00:24:33.930 --> 00:24:36.630 event. Seriously, he said that publicly? Publicly. 00:24:36.630 --> 00:24:39.130 Claimed he did it intentionally as a sign of 00:24:39.130 --> 00:24:41.130 his contempt for Weinstein even back then. That 00:24:41.130 --> 00:24:43.069 is something else. It is. And he made sure to 00:24:43.069 --> 00:24:45.170 tie that anecdote directly back to the political 00:24:45.170 --> 00:24:47.250 fight he was having. He followed up the story 00:24:47.250 --> 00:24:49.230 by tweeting something like, I think about that 00:24:49.230 --> 00:24:51.049 every time a little Donnie opens up his KFC. 00:24:51.369 --> 00:24:53.650 Oh, my goodness. OK, so that whole exchange. 00:24:54.490 --> 00:24:57.789 It just blew up, obviously. Huge news. Sensational. 00:24:57.970 --> 00:25:00.289 But it really demonstrates his willingness to 00:25:00.289 --> 00:25:03.789 get personal, get graphic, use really confrontational 00:25:03.789 --> 00:25:05.670 rhetoric online to make his political points. 00:25:05.769 --> 00:25:08.289 No holds barred. Yeah, it definitely shows an 00:25:08.289 --> 00:25:10.369 actor who's not afraid to use his platform for 00:25:10.369 --> 00:25:13.549 political battles no matter how. unconventional 00:25:13.549 --> 00:25:15.450 the ammunition gets. Or how strange the headlines 00:25:15.450 --> 00:25:17.690 become. Yeah. It's like that transparency he 00:25:17.690 --> 00:25:20.170 embraces in public is the total opposite of the 00:25:20.170 --> 00:25:21.990 layers of makeup he often wore professionally. 00:25:22.210 --> 00:25:24.869 It's quite the contrast. And his political ambitions, 00:25:25.049 --> 00:25:26.829 they actually went further than just Twitter 00:25:26.829 --> 00:25:28.690 fights at one point, didn't they? Briefly, yes. 00:25:28.890 --> 00:25:31.170 It was right after the 2016 election, November 00:25:31.170 --> 00:25:34.650 2016, he posted on Facebook pretty much announcing 00:25:34.650 --> 00:25:37.069 his intention to run for U .S. president in the 00:25:37.069 --> 00:25:40.170 2020 election. For president? Wow. Now, obviously, 00:25:40.250 --> 00:25:42.410 he didn't end up mounting it. an actual campaign. 00:25:42.789 --> 00:25:45.630 But he did use his platform later to endorse 00:25:45.630 --> 00:25:48.609 Kamala Harris's candidacy back in January 2019. 00:25:48.950 --> 00:25:51.690 So the political engagement remained high beyond 00:25:51.690 --> 00:25:54.250 the presidential stuff and the online feuds. 00:25:54.250 --> 00:25:56.369 He's also been a really strong voice for labor. 00:25:56.470 --> 00:25:58.849 Right. Especially within the industry. Yes. And 00:25:58.849 --> 00:26:02.000 this feels like maybe the most. authentic extension 00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:04.740 of his identity as a working actor, despite his 00:26:04.740 --> 00:26:06.839 success. He was a very prominent, very vocal 00:26:06.839 --> 00:26:10.119 supporter of the big Hollywood strikes in 2023, 00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:14.039 SAG -FTRA and the WGA. Sticking up for the unions. 00:26:14.220 --> 00:26:17.079 Absolutely. And this led him to make some really 00:26:17.079 --> 00:26:20.880 pointed, really public criticisms of the studio 00:26:20.880 --> 00:26:23.930 side, the AMPTP. What happened there? There was 00:26:23.930 --> 00:26:25.930 a report you might remember about an anonymous 00:26:25.930 --> 00:26:28.970 studio executive suggesting that the studio's 00:26:28.970 --> 00:26:31.170 strategy was basically to delay negotiations 00:26:31.170 --> 00:26:34.400 until this Striking writers and actors started 00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:36.140 losing their homes, getting desperate. Yeah, 00:26:36.279 --> 00:26:39.440 that caused a huge backlash. Huge. And Perlman's 00:26:39.440 --> 00:26:42.240 response to that specific comment was immediate 00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:45.380 and it was furious. He recorded this impassioned 00:26:45.380 --> 00:26:47.980 video. Right. He saw that sentiment not just 00:26:47.980 --> 00:26:50.799 as cruel, but as this deliberate tactic to break 00:26:50.799 --> 00:26:52.640 the will of the working people in his industry. 00:26:53.079 --> 00:26:55.400 His defense of the strikers, their financial 00:26:55.400 --> 00:26:58.440 stability, it just reinforces that core theme 00:26:58.440 --> 00:27:00.619 we've seen all along. The champion for the outsider. 00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:10.460 Exactly. It really does tie it all together, 00:27:10.619 --> 00:27:13.019 doesn't it? The guy who became a multimillionaire 00:27:13.019 --> 00:27:15.819 actor still fiercely aligns himself with the 00:27:15.819 --> 00:27:18.480 rank and file, using that same powerful voice 00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:21.359 that narrates Fallout to demand solidarity for 00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:24.670 the union. It's quite the synthesis. Hashtag 00:27:24.670 --> 00:27:26.730 tag conclusion and final takeaways. Yeah. Looking 00:27:26.730 --> 00:27:29.049 back over this deep dive, it really reveals this 00:27:29.049 --> 00:27:32.269 extraordinary and you have to say highly deliberate 00:27:32.269 --> 00:27:35.230 career. It's all built on transformation. We've 00:27:35.230 --> 00:27:37.289 tracked Ron Pullman from, you know, this young 00:27:37.289 --> 00:27:39.890 guy in New York grappling with feeling overweight 00:27:39.890 --> 00:27:43.569 and having low self -esteem to becoming an artist 00:27:43.569 --> 00:27:46.539 who. consciously channeled that inner feeling, 00:27:46.660 --> 00:27:48.960 that sense of being an outsider, into these truly 00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:52.039 iconic roles, using prosthetics, using his unique 00:27:52.039 --> 00:27:53.920 physique to create characters like Vincent and 00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:56.559 Hellboy, who are just deeply, deeply endearing. 00:27:56.640 --> 00:27:59.019 Beloved, really. And he became a master across 00:27:59.019 --> 00:28:01.180 so many different mediums. You see him in arthouse 00:28:01.180 --> 00:28:03.420 films with directors like Anand and Junet early 00:28:03.420 --> 00:28:06.119 on. He becomes this essential collaborator, almost 00:28:06.119 --> 00:28:09.180 a muse, for Guillermo del Toro. He conquers prestige 00:28:09.180 --> 00:28:13.329 TV as Clay Morrow in Sons of Anarchy. And then, 00:28:13.430 --> 00:28:16.089 running parallel to all of that, he builds this 00:28:16.089 --> 00:28:18.690 colossal, maybe even more influential career 00:28:18.690 --> 00:28:21.509 as the unseen giant of voice acting. Yeah, providing 00:28:21.509 --> 00:28:24.789 the definitive voice for Fallout, for Halo, for 00:28:24.789 --> 00:28:27.910 countless characters in the DC animated universe 00:28:27.910 --> 00:28:30.980 and beyond. The range is just... It's kind of 00:28:30.980 --> 00:28:32.859 mind -boggling when you lay it all out. From 00:28:32.859 --> 00:28:35.559 winning a Golden Globe as a romantic lead hidden 00:28:35.559 --> 00:28:39.460 behind a lion mask, to playing a complex, violent 00:28:39.460 --> 00:28:42.880 biker boss, to voicing the actual embodiment 00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:45.559 of cosmic horror in The Lich, and then delivering 00:28:45.559 --> 00:28:47.920 that unforgettable line about war never changing. 00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:50.640 War. War never changes. It just sticks with you. 00:28:50.940 --> 00:28:53.000 So we come back around, I think, to that central 00:28:53.000 --> 00:28:55.240 idea, that defining feature of his unique celebrity, 00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:57.660 the powerful duality of his public image. Explain 00:28:57.660 --> 00:28:59.460 that a bit more. Well, on the one hand, you have 00:28:59.460 --> 00:29:01.220 the master transformer, the artist who spent 00:29:01.220 --> 00:29:03.779 decades literally hiding himself, using makeup, 00:29:03.859 --> 00:29:05.960 using voice modulation to become other beings, 00:29:06.140 --> 00:29:08.579 channeling his own inner feelings through these 00:29:08.579 --> 00:29:10.700 protective layers. Okay, yeah. The concealer. 00:29:10.960 --> 00:29:13.700 Right. But then later in his career, especially 00:29:13.700 --> 00:29:16.420 recently, you get the complete opposite. This 00:29:16.420 --> 00:29:18.819 intensely outspoken, politically aggressive, 00:29:19.059 --> 00:29:21.259 seemingly totally transparent public figure. 00:29:21.359 --> 00:29:24.019 The guy using social media for these bizarre 00:29:24.019 --> 00:29:26.079 high stakes arguments. Shedding all the layers. 00:29:26.279 --> 00:29:29.799 Exactly. As revealed so candidly in his own memoir, 00:29:29.960 --> 00:29:33.390 Easy Street. the hard way. He seems to have shed 00:29:33.390 --> 00:29:35.750 every bit of that protection he once relied on 00:29:35.750 --> 00:29:37.829 professionally. It's a fascinating contrast. 00:29:38.130 --> 00:29:40.609 So the final maybe provocative thought we want 00:29:40.609 --> 00:29:43.589 to leave you the listener with is this. In a 00:29:43.589 --> 00:29:45.650 career that was so defined by transformation, 00:29:45.950 --> 00:29:49.390 by concealment, by finding power in hiding, does 00:29:49.390 --> 00:29:52.309 Ron Perlman's aggressive late career political 00:29:52.309 --> 00:29:55.509 transparency, his willingness to put it all out 00:29:55.509 --> 00:29:57.730 there, does that represent his ultimate artistic 00:29:57.730 --> 00:30:01.250 act? The final transformation. Maybe. Is it the 00:30:01.250 --> 00:30:03.130 moment where the private self, having achieved 00:30:03.130 --> 00:30:05.750 success, financial security, professional validation, 00:30:06.029 --> 00:30:08.630 finally decides to step out from behind all the 00:30:08.630 --> 00:30:10.490 masks, both the literal and the figurative ones, 00:30:10.630 --> 00:30:12.569 and just confront the world unfiltered, head 00:30:12.569 --> 00:30:14.950 on? That's a really profound question to consider, 00:30:15.089 --> 00:30:17.710 especially for an artist whose fame was built 00:30:17.710 --> 00:30:21.029 on showing us that what lies beneath the surface, 00:30:21.269 --> 00:30:24.369 beneath the makeup, beneath the growl, is always 00:30:24.369 --> 00:30:26.529 the most important, most valuable thing. Indeed. 00:30:27.159 --> 00:30:29.480 Well thank you for joining us for this deep dive 00:30:29.480 --> 00:30:32.500 into the truly singular career of Ron Perlman. 00:30:32.640 --> 00:30:34.440 A fascinating journey. We'll catch you next time.