WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.259 Welcome to the Deep Dive. We're here to sift 00:00:02.259 --> 00:00:04.299 through complex sources, pull out the essentials, 00:00:04.540 --> 00:00:07.240 and give you a clear fast track to really understanding 00:00:07.240 --> 00:00:09.939 the subject. And today, we're taking a close 00:00:09.939 --> 00:00:12.800 look, almost like an architectural tour, of a 00:00:12.800 --> 00:00:15.839 major figure in modern film, James Mangold. Right. 00:00:15.939 --> 00:00:19.160 He's a filmmaker whose work is, well, it's incredibly 00:00:19.160 --> 00:00:21.679 hard to pin down, isn't it? It really is. I mean, 00:00:21.699 --> 00:00:24.339 you look at his filmography and you've got westerns 00:00:24.339 --> 00:00:27.300 sitting right next to biopics, intimate dramas 00:00:27.300 --> 00:00:30.079 alongside these massive superhero blockbusters. 00:00:30.280 --> 00:00:33.020 It's quite a range. Yeah, it's a portfolio that 00:00:33.020 --> 00:00:35.920 screams versatility, maybe even a refusal to 00:00:35.920 --> 00:00:38.359 be pigeonholed. Our sources today really map 00:00:38.359 --> 00:00:40.399 out his whole journey, his background, the big... 00:00:40.759 --> 00:00:43.960 career turns, his core filmmaking philosophies, 00:00:43.960 --> 00:00:46.439 and even a peek at what's next. And some of these 00:00:46.439 --> 00:00:48.780 future projects could reshape some huge Hollywood 00:00:48.780 --> 00:00:51.960 franchises. So our mission here is to figure 00:00:51.960 --> 00:00:54.020 out what's behind that success. How does one 00:00:54.020 --> 00:00:56.880 director jump between such wildly different genres 00:00:56.880 --> 00:01:00.100 and still manage to find that human emotional 00:01:00.100 --> 00:01:02.780 core in almost every story? Exactly. We want 00:01:02.780 --> 00:01:04.579 to give you that shortcut to understanding how 00:01:04.579 --> 00:01:07.340 he operates, this director who seems to specialize, 00:01:07.640 --> 00:01:11.030 above all, in character. So where do we start? 00:01:11.170 --> 00:01:13.489 The beginning seems right. Okay, let's unpack 00:01:13.489 --> 00:01:15.689 this range then. Starting right at the beginning, 00:01:15.930 --> 00:01:18.269 the foundations. Mangold was born in New York 00:01:18.269 --> 00:01:21.170 City in 1963, grew up in Washingtonville, New 00:01:21.170 --> 00:01:23.829 York. But the really crucial part, I think, is 00:01:23.829 --> 00:01:26.849 his background in fine art. Oh, absolutely. That's 00:01:26.849 --> 00:01:29.549 the key starting point. His parents were Robert 00:01:29.549 --> 00:01:32.569 Mangold and Sylvia Plamack Mangold, both really 00:01:32.569 --> 00:01:35.530 celebrated conceptual artists. Can you imagine 00:01:35.530 --> 00:01:38.579 growing up in that environment? Where creative 00:01:38.579 --> 00:01:42.780 talk form composition, that's just everyday conversation. 00:01:43.079 --> 00:01:45.019 It must foster a completely different way of 00:01:45.019 --> 00:01:47.450 seeing narrative. Right. Maybe more about texture, 00:01:47.530 --> 00:01:49.810 structure, less about just, you know, standard 00:01:49.810 --> 00:01:52.290 Hollywood flash. He didn't just soak up art appreciation. 00:01:52.489 --> 00:01:54.430 He got a critical eye from it. And he's mentioned 00:01:54.430 --> 00:01:56.569 his background, noting he's half Jewish through 00:01:56.569 --> 00:01:59.730 his mother. So this mix of culture and art must 00:01:59.730 --> 00:02:01.930 have given him a unique perspective when he started 00:02:01.930 --> 00:02:04.810 his formal training. And he took that perspective 00:02:04.810 --> 00:02:07.730 out west to CalArts, the California Institute 00:02:07.730 --> 00:02:11.050 of the Arts, studied film and video, got his 00:02:11.050 --> 00:02:14.270 BFA. But the really key thing there was his mentor, 00:02:14.469 --> 00:02:16.770 Alexander McKendrick. The legendary McKendrick. 00:02:16.830 --> 00:02:18.870 Yeah. Director of the Lady Killers, films like 00:02:18.870 --> 00:02:21.870 that. And apparently he gave Mangold some crucial 00:02:21.870 --> 00:02:25.870 advice. He did. In Mangold's third year, McKendrick 00:02:25.870 --> 00:02:28.150 told him essentially, look, you need more than 00:02:28.150 --> 00:02:30.490 just film technique. You need to understand performance. 00:02:31.490 --> 00:02:33.949 So he pushed him to enroll in the Cal Arts School 00:02:33.949 --> 00:02:36.909 of Theater to study acting while studying film. 00:02:37.310 --> 00:02:39.710 That's a really fundamental insight for a director, 00:02:39.810 --> 00:02:41.889 isn't it? It's huge. Because if you understand 00:02:41.889 --> 00:02:44.789 acting from the inside out, you can talk to actors 00:02:44.789 --> 00:02:46.960 differently. Not just about where to stand, but 00:02:46.960 --> 00:02:49.560 about, you know, the why, the motivation, the 00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:52.400 emotional truth. It builds empathy. You understand 00:02:52.400 --> 00:02:54.379 what the actor's going through, what tools they 00:02:54.379 --> 00:02:57.000 need. It probably explains why he became known 00:02:57.000 --> 00:02:59.139 as such an actor's director. He gets these Oscar 00:02:59.139 --> 00:03:01.219 -winning performances out of people. Right. And 00:03:01.219 --> 00:03:03.000 it wasn't just theory. Even while he was still 00:03:03.000 --> 00:03:04.699 at CalArts, he was already working professionally. 00:03:05.319 --> 00:03:08.240 He directed this promotional doc called Future 00:03:08.240 --> 00:03:11.139 View for Disney and General Motors. Big names. 00:03:11.360 --> 00:03:13.539 That must have opened doors immediately. Straight 00:03:13.539 --> 00:03:17.770 away. In 1985, right after graduating, boom, 00:03:17.849 --> 00:03:21.330 he gets a writer -director deal at Disney, which 00:03:21.330 --> 00:03:23.689 is huge for a young filmmaker. And while he was 00:03:23.689 --> 00:03:26.810 there. He wrote a TV movie, and maybe the most 00:03:26.810 --> 00:03:29.229 interesting credit from that time, he co -wrote 00:03:29.229 --> 00:03:31.389 the animated film Oliver and Company. Remember 00:03:31.389 --> 00:03:35.349 that one? 1988. I do. So you'd think, okay, he's 00:03:35.349 --> 00:03:38.289 set, Disney career track locked in, stability. 00:03:38.729 --> 00:03:40.090 But then he does something kind of surprising, 00:03:40.150 --> 00:03:41.889 almost counterintuitive. He leaves Hollywood. 00:03:42.409 --> 00:03:45.250 Goes back to New York to get an MFA at Columbia 00:03:45.250 --> 00:03:47.750 University's film school. Wow. Choosing deep 00:03:47.750 --> 00:03:50.509 craft over maybe immediate commercial momentum. 00:03:50.990 --> 00:03:53.509 Exactly. And again, he finds this incredible 00:03:53.509 --> 00:03:56.689 mentor figure, Mila Forman. The director of One 00:03:56.689 --> 00:03:59.569 Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Amadeus. Wow. Yeah. 00:03:59.629 --> 00:04:02.069 And Forman really took him under his wing, helped 00:04:02.069 --> 00:04:03.969 him develop the scripts for what would become 00:04:03.969 --> 00:04:06.830 his first two big features, Hevery and Copland. 00:04:07.240 --> 00:04:09.919 And that guidance clearly paid off fast. His 00:04:09.919 --> 00:04:12.719 first independent feature, Heavy, comes out in 00:04:12.719 --> 00:04:16.980 95. Instant critical hit, wins Best Directing 00:04:16.980 --> 00:04:19.649 at Sundance. It was a real statement, wasn't 00:04:19.649 --> 00:04:21.490 it? This director is about intimate character 00:04:21.490 --> 00:04:23.850 work no matter the scale. It was quite an entrance. 00:04:24.149 --> 00:04:26.829 Showed he could handle tone, get powerful performances 00:04:26.829 --> 00:04:29.250 with, you know, not a lot of resources. Yeah. 00:04:29.310 --> 00:04:31.490 He wasn't just climbing the ladder. He'd built 00:04:31.490 --> 00:04:34.250 this independent artistic credibility based on 00:04:34.250 --> 00:04:37.230 writing and character, which, as you said, sets 00:04:37.230 --> 00:04:39.730 up the next phase perfectly. Genre jumping phase. 00:04:39.870 --> 00:04:43.269 Right. This period. Roughly 97 to 2010, where 00:04:43.269 --> 00:04:46.069 he just tackles seemingly everything. And the 00:04:46.069 --> 00:04:49.470 jump from heavy, that small, quiet drama, to 00:04:49.470 --> 00:04:52.470 Copland in 97. I mean, that's quite a leap. Huge 00:04:52.470 --> 00:04:55.850 ensemble crime film. Stallone, De Niro, Keitel, 00:04:56.089 --> 00:04:59.660 Ray Liotta. Just legends. Yeah. And the challenge 00:04:59.660 --> 00:05:01.699 there wasn't just managing these huge personalities. 00:05:01.720 --> 00:05:04.560 It was getting an icon like Stallone to dial 00:05:04.560 --> 00:05:06.779 down the action hero stuff and deliver this quiet, 00:05:06.819 --> 00:05:09.399 internal, vulnerable performance. It showed he 00:05:09.399 --> 00:05:11.560 could use that acting background, that Kellert's 00:05:11.560 --> 00:05:14.259 training, to push even A -listers into new territory. 00:05:14.379 --> 00:05:17.199 And he did it while keeping that gritty, neo 00:05:17.199 --> 00:05:20.819 -noir feel the story needed. Then, just two years 00:05:20.819 --> 00:05:24.879 later, 1999, another sharp turn. Girl, interrupt 00:05:24.879 --> 00:05:27.759 it. period drama set in a mental institution. 00:05:28.019 --> 00:05:30.560 And this one really cemented his reputation with 00:05:30.560 --> 00:05:33.579 actors, didn't it? Absolutely. Angelina Jolie 00:05:33.579 --> 00:05:36.060 wins the Best Supporting Actress Oscar for her 00:05:36.060 --> 00:05:37.980 role. So now he's not just getting good reviews 00:05:37.980 --> 00:05:40.180 or box office, he's delivering major awards. 00:05:40.540 --> 00:05:42.920 But he doesn't settle into being the awards drama 00:05:42.920 --> 00:05:45.560 guy either. Not at all. The genre switches just 00:05:45.560 --> 00:05:49.680 keep coming. Next up, almost bafflingly, is Kate 00:05:49.680 --> 00:05:53.500 and Leopold in 2001. Romantic comedy. Fantasy. 00:05:54.199 --> 00:05:57.220 Time travel. Talk about tonal whiplash. It starred 00:05:57.220 --> 00:05:59.980 Meg Ryan and Hugh Jackman. And Jackman actually 00:05:59.980 --> 00:06:02.040 got a Golden Globe nomination for Best Actor 00:06:02.040 --> 00:06:04.860 in a Musical or Comedy for it. It really suggests 00:06:04.860 --> 00:06:06.899 he was actively trying out different cinematic 00:06:06.899 --> 00:06:09.420 languages. You know, like he wanted to master 00:06:09.420 --> 00:06:11.379 comic timing or maybe the structure of light 00:06:11.379 --> 00:06:13.800 fantasy, using each genre as a kind of workshop. 00:06:14.139 --> 00:06:15.819 It's also interesting that around this time, 00:06:15.899 --> 00:06:17.699 he even stepped back in front of the camera a 00:06:17.699 --> 00:06:19.899 bit, played a movie director in Kate and Leopold, 00:06:19.939 --> 00:06:21.779 and wasn't he a doctor in The Sweetest Thing? 00:06:22.170 --> 00:06:23.769 Yeah, a little nod back to that acting training, 00:06:23.910 --> 00:06:26.490 baby. So, okay, from rom -com, where does he 00:06:26.490 --> 00:06:31.050 go? Sharply back to tension in 2003 with Identity. 00:06:31.110 --> 00:06:33.490 Right, that high concept psychological thriller 00:06:33.490 --> 00:06:36.009 with John Cusack. Again, showing he could handle 00:06:36.009 --> 00:06:39.569 mystery, suspense, complex plotting. He was building 00:06:39.569 --> 00:06:42.670 this, like, encyclopedic knowledge of film styles. 00:06:43.050 --> 00:06:45.209 And all this genre hopping, this constant working 00:06:45.209 --> 00:06:47.790 out in different cinematic gyms, it set him up 00:06:47.790 --> 00:06:51.110 perfectly for what many consider his big breakout. 00:06:51.639 --> 00:06:55.079 The Johnny Cash biopic Walk the Line in 2005. 00:06:55.540 --> 00:06:57.920 This one felt like a real passion project for 00:06:57.920 --> 00:07:00.339 him. He co -wrote it, produced it under his own 00:07:00.339 --> 00:07:03.360 banner, Treeline Film, and directed it. Joaquin 00:07:03.360 --> 00:07:05.879 Phoenix as Cash, Reese Witherspoon as June Carter 00:07:05.879 --> 00:07:08.300 Cash. And the impact was huge. Grossed, what, 00:07:08.319 --> 00:07:11.639 $187 million worldwide, five Oscar nominations, 00:07:11.860 --> 00:07:14.480 and crucially, Reese Witherspoon won Best Actress. 00:07:14.620 --> 00:07:16.160 That's the second Oscar -winning performance 00:07:16.160 --> 00:07:18.259 he directed. Right. And I think the genius there 00:07:18.259 --> 00:07:20.180 was how he portrayed their relationship. It wasn't 00:07:20.180 --> 00:07:23.120 some sugary musical fantasy. It was messy, difficult, 00:07:23.420 --> 00:07:26.279 emotionally draining at times. Real. He took 00:07:26.279 --> 00:07:29.000 the biopic structure, but layered in that psychological 00:07:29.000 --> 00:07:31.720 depth from his earlier dramas. But he wasn't 00:07:31.720 --> 00:07:33.810 finished. exploring American myths yet, was he? 00:07:33.930 --> 00:07:37.970 Nope. 2007, he delivers 3 .10 to Yuma, the Western 00:07:37.970 --> 00:07:41.029 remake. Russell Crowe, Christian Bale, critically 00:07:41.029 --> 00:07:43.269 acclaimed. This felt like a really deliberate 00:07:43.269 --> 00:07:45.910 engagement with a classic American genre, but 00:07:45.910 --> 00:07:49.350 done with modern grit, modern psychological depth. 00:07:49.949 --> 00:07:52.189 Yeah, it got great reviews, couple Oscar nominations. 00:07:52.569 --> 00:07:54.410 And for anyone tracking his development, this 00:07:54.410 --> 00:07:57.430 film is vital. It's where he really mastered 00:07:57.430 --> 00:07:59.649 the visual language and the thematic weight of 00:07:59.649 --> 00:08:01.490 the Western, and that becomes so important later. 00:08:01.790 --> 00:08:04.009 Before he jumps fully into the blockbuster arena, 00:08:04.050 --> 00:08:06.149 though, there's one more film that kind of proved 00:08:06.149 --> 00:08:08.970 his commercial muscle. Night and Day in 2010. 00:08:09.389 --> 00:08:12.670 Tom Cruise, Cameron Diaz. Action comedy. Definitely 00:08:12.670 --> 00:08:14.730 lighter fare than usual for him. The reviews 00:08:14.730 --> 00:08:17.230 were mixed. They were mixed, yeah. But it made 00:08:17.230 --> 00:08:21.750 money. $262 million worldwide. And in Hollywood, 00:08:21.930 --> 00:08:23.930 showing you can deliver a big commercial hit, 00:08:23.990 --> 00:08:25.930 even if it's not an awards darling, that's important 00:08:25.930 --> 00:08:28.709 currency. It proved he could handle the spectacle, 00:08:29.009 --> 00:08:31.459 the big stars, the whole package. So you look 00:08:31.459 --> 00:08:36.120 back at that decade plus, from 97 to 2010, he's 00:08:36.120 --> 00:08:40.679 done crime, drama, rom -com, thriller, biopic, 00:08:40.940 --> 00:08:43.919 western action comedy. He's like a directorial 00:08:43.919 --> 00:08:46.259 Swiss army knife. Which leads us right into part 00:08:46.259 --> 00:08:48.990 three, the blockbuster era. where he takes all 00:08:48.990 --> 00:08:50.830 those skills and applies them to some massive 00:08:50.830 --> 00:08:53.649 franchises, starting around 2013. And he jumps 00:08:53.649 --> 00:08:55.490 right into the deep end with the X -Men universe. 00:08:55.750 --> 00:08:58.129 He was first hired just to direct The Wolverine 00:08:58.129 --> 00:09:00.889 in 2013. But he ended up doing more, right? Involved 00:09:00.889 --> 00:09:02.769 in the screenplay. Yeah, he got heavily involved 00:09:02.769 --> 00:09:04.710 in adapting it, working with others, drawing 00:09:04.710 --> 00:09:07.370 a lot from that classic Frank Milliker's Claremont 00:09:07.370 --> 00:09:10.009 run set in Japan. That must have been a big test, 00:09:10.269 --> 00:09:12.850 fitting his character focus into a universe that 00:09:12.850 --> 00:09:15.509 already exists, with all its rules and fan expectations. 00:09:15.529 --> 00:09:18.139 And he pulled it off commercially. Over $414 00:09:18.139 --> 00:09:21.779 million worldwide on a $120 million budget. It 00:09:21.779 --> 00:09:24.179 worked. But really, that felt like the prelude 00:09:24.179 --> 00:09:27.860 to the main event, Logan, in 2017. Ah, Logan. 00:09:27.980 --> 00:09:29.799 Now that felt like a mangled film through and 00:09:29.799 --> 00:09:32.340 through. Absolutely. His masterpiece within the 00:09:32.340 --> 00:09:34.860 franchise world, arguably, third time working 00:09:34.860 --> 00:09:36.940 with Hugh Jackman. He co -wrote it with Scott 00:09:36.940 --> 00:09:40.309 Frank and Michael Green. deliberately pulled 00:09:40.309 --> 00:09:43.450 from Mark Millar's Old Man Logan comics that 00:09:43.450 --> 00:09:46.830 much darker, grittier storyline. What made Logan 00:09:46.830 --> 00:09:49.149 so special, I think, was that it kind of rejected 00:09:49.149 --> 00:09:51.350 the usual superhero formula. It wasn't about 00:09:51.350 --> 00:09:53.389 saving the world. It was an elegy about getting 00:09:53.389 --> 00:09:56.629 old, about fatherhood, about failure. And he 00:09:56.629 --> 00:09:59.190 used the visual and thematic language of the 00:09:59.190 --> 00:10:02.929 Western, which he'd nailed in 3 .50 to Yuma, 00:10:03.070 --> 00:10:05.730 to tell this incredibly personal superhero story. 00:10:05.889 --> 00:10:08.789 It felt grounded. brutal, emotional. The critical 00:10:08.789 --> 00:10:11.610 reaction was just huge. It's consistently called 00:10:11.610 --> 00:10:13.870 one of the best superhero films ever made. But 00:10:13.870 --> 00:10:15.809 here's the really telling detail from our sources. 00:10:15.929 --> 00:10:17.990 The Oscar nomination. Exactly. His first Oscar 00:10:17.990 --> 00:10:20.549 nomination for best adapted screenplay. And Logan 00:10:20.549 --> 00:10:23.090 became the first live action superhero movie 00:10:23.090 --> 00:10:25.409 ever nominated in a screenplay category. That's 00:10:25.409 --> 00:10:27.409 history being made. It's a validation that, yeah, 00:10:27.429 --> 00:10:29.730 these films can be serious, character driven 00:10:29.730 --> 00:10:32.309 cinema if the intent is there. He absolutely 00:10:32.309 --> 00:10:34.389 proved it, and he carried that momentum right 00:10:34.389 --> 00:10:37.549 into his next big prestige project, Ford v Ferrari, 00:10:37.789 --> 00:10:41.149 in 2019. A return to period drama, but this time 00:10:41.149 --> 00:10:44.029 focused on that intense world of racing -engineering 00:10:44.029 --> 00:10:47.590 rivalry, the lead -up to the 1966 Le Mans race. 00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:51.500 Christian Bale as Ken Miles, Matt Damon as Carroll 00:10:51.500 --> 00:10:53.340 Shelby. The challenge there seems like making 00:10:53.340 --> 00:10:55.759 a film about, you know, engine specs and guys 00:10:55.759 --> 00:10:58.200 driving in circles feel dramatic. And he did 00:10:58.200 --> 00:11:00.519 it by focusing on the human element, the volatile 00:11:00.519 --> 00:11:03.200 relationship between Miles and Shelby, using 00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:05.220 LeMans as this pressure cooker to reveal who 00:11:05.220 --> 00:11:09.039 they were. Another huge success. $225 million 00:11:09.039 --> 00:11:11.860 worldwide, four Oscar nominations, including 00:11:11.860 --> 00:11:14.519 Best Picture for Mangold himself. It won for 00:11:14.519 --> 00:11:17.059 film editing and sound editing. So he showed 00:11:17.059 --> 00:11:18.879 again he could do the big technical spectacle 00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:20.879 and keep it grounded in performance. And then 00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:23.120 came maybe the most daunting task of his career. 00:11:23.279 --> 00:11:26.299 Yeah. Taking over Indiana Jones. Wow, yeah. Indiana 00:11:26.299 --> 00:11:29.240 Jones and the Dial of Destiny, 2023. The fifth 00:11:29.240 --> 00:11:31.639 and final film. Taking the reins from Steven 00:11:31.639 --> 00:11:33.620 Spielberg himself, though Spielberg stayed on 00:11:33.620 --> 00:11:36.080 as an executive producer, Mangold directed and 00:11:36.080 --> 00:11:38.889 co -wrote it. I mean, the pressure. You can barely 00:11:38.889 --> 00:11:42.029 imagine it. Ending a legendary series, massive 00:11:42.029 --> 00:11:45.230 fan expectations, following maybe the most iconic 00:11:45.230 --> 00:11:47.350 director of our time. So how did he approach 00:11:47.350 --> 00:11:51.250 it? Seems like his usual method. Find the character's 00:11:51.250 --> 00:11:53.809 emotional core. Make it about Indy's legacy, 00:11:53.970 --> 00:11:56.730 about aging, about that one last adventure feeling, 00:11:56.889 --> 00:11:59.830 rather than just, you know, hitting the nostalgia 00:11:59.830 --> 00:12:01.990 buttons over and over. And it's still got awards 00:12:01.990 --> 00:12:04.470 recognition, right? Yep, one Academy Award nomination. 00:12:05.149 --> 00:12:07.110 which shows that even in probably the toughest 00:12:07.110 --> 00:12:10.289 franchise situation imaginable, he's still delivering 00:12:10.289 --> 00:12:12.610 quality work that gets noticed. Which brings 00:12:12.610 --> 00:12:15.590 us almost up to date to his latest big prestige 00:12:15.590 --> 00:12:18.850 film, the Bob Dylan biopic, A Complete Unknown, 00:12:19.269 --> 00:12:22.289 slated for 2024, starring Timothee Chalamet. 00:12:22.389 --> 00:12:24.590 All right. This one had some delays, pandemic, 00:12:24.909 --> 00:12:27.730 the SAG -AFTRA strike in 2023, but it sounds 00:12:27.730 --> 00:12:29.649 like it's positioned for major critical attention. 00:12:29.950 --> 00:12:32.549 It's him returning to that biopic territory he 00:12:32.549 --> 00:12:34.990 conquered with Walk the Line. And the awards 00:12:34.990 --> 00:12:37.250 buzz mentioned in our sources is, well, it's 00:12:37.250 --> 00:12:39.720 pretty incredible. For a complete unknown, Mangold 00:12:39.720 --> 00:12:42.220 apparently received three Academy Award nominations 00:12:42.220 --> 00:12:44.720 himself. Which one? His first ever nomination 00:12:44.720 --> 00:12:47.379 for Best Director, his second for Best Picture, 00:12:47.500 --> 00:12:50.279 and his second for Best Adapted Screenplay. Wow. 00:12:50.419 --> 00:12:52.740 Across -the -board recognition. That's huge. 00:12:52.899 --> 00:12:55.679 And what about the acting? Chalamet. The sources 00:12:55.679 --> 00:12:58.519 suggest four Oscar -nominated performances came 00:12:58.519 --> 00:13:01.139 out of that single film. Timothee Chalamet, Edward 00:13:01.139 --> 00:13:03.639 Norton, and Monica Barbaro apparently among them. 00:13:03.820 --> 00:13:05.700 Okay, let's just pause and take stock there. 00:13:05.860 --> 00:13:09.710 If you count... Jolie for Girl, Interrupted, 00:13:09.730 --> 00:13:12.029 Witherspoon for Walk the Line, maybe Phoenix 00:13:12.029 --> 00:13:15.679 and Jackman's nominations, plus these four. He 00:13:15.679 --> 00:13:18.139 has consistently directed actors to the absolute 00:13:18.139 --> 00:13:20.580 highest level of recognition. Across all these 00:13:20.580 --> 00:13:24.240 different genres, too. Drama, biopic, rom -com, 00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:26.620 superhero films. He's like a conductor, and the 00:13:26.620 --> 00:13:29.500 actors are his primary instrument. It really 00:13:29.500 --> 00:13:31.519 forces that question, then. What's the secret 00:13:31.519 --> 00:13:33.500 sauce? How does he pull off these crazy genre 00:13:33.500 --> 00:13:36.159 shifts and always land on emotional truth? What's 00:13:36.159 --> 00:13:38.440 his core philosophy? Let's get into that part 00:13:38.440 --> 00:13:41.000 four. His style, philosophy, and what's next. 00:13:41.340 --> 00:13:43.820 Well, he's been pretty open about it. He says... 00:13:44.029 --> 00:13:46.389 Even with the biggest franchises, his main goal 00:13:46.389 --> 00:13:48.870 is always finding that emotional center for the 00:13:48.870 --> 00:13:50.710 characters. If their journey doesn't resonate, 00:13:50.909 --> 00:13:52.950 all the spectacle in the world doesn't matter. 00:13:53.110 --> 00:13:55.909 He argues that a lot of modern franchise films 00:13:55.909 --> 00:14:00.169 fail because they just become repetitive. They 00:14:00.169 --> 00:14:02.830 lean too heavily on nostalgia or just rehash 00:14:02.830 --> 00:14:05.289 old plots, making you wish you were just watching 00:14:05.289 --> 00:14:07.500 the original again. His solution, which you really 00:14:07.500 --> 00:14:09.779 saw in Logan and Dial of Destiny, is to acknowledge 00:14:09.779 --> 00:14:12.759 why people love these characters, the core appeal, 00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:16.440 but then deliberately push something to someplace 00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:19.759 new. In Logan, that meant pushing Wolverine into 00:14:19.759 --> 00:14:23.059 old age, decline, mortality. It became a film 00:14:23.059 --> 00:14:25.600 about death, not just survival. And with Indy 00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:28.299 5, it was about looking at his legacy, his relevance 00:14:28.299 --> 00:14:31.639 in a changing world. Doing that kind of character 00:14:31.639 --> 00:14:33.779 work requires some freedom, doesn't it? Which 00:14:33.779 --> 00:14:35.860 must create tension when you're dealing with 00:14:35.860 --> 00:14:38.220 established IP. He admits there's a difference. 00:14:38.779 --> 00:14:42.259 Biopics like A Complete Unknown give him a factual 00:14:42.259 --> 00:14:45.220 framework, but also artistic freedom to interpret. 00:14:46.419 --> 00:14:48.940 Franchises, though, especially ones with decades 00:14:48.940 --> 00:14:52.000 of lore, he says you have to navigate this almost 00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:54.980 religious level of fan expectation. This is really 00:14:54.980 --> 00:14:56.500 interesting for anyone watching the industry. 00:14:56.700 --> 00:14:59.000 His stance is pretty blunt, isn't it? Well, yeah. 00:14:59.080 --> 00:15:01.960 He basically says he refuses to be handcuffed 00:15:01.960 --> 00:15:04.879 by lore. He has to follow his own vision because 00:15:04.879 --> 00:15:08.019 trying to please every single fan is just impossible. 00:15:08.500 --> 00:15:10.679 And his track record kind of backs that up. He 00:15:10.679 --> 00:15:13.480 trusts his gut for story and character more than 00:15:13.480 --> 00:15:16.539 strict adherence to canon. But he goes even further, 00:15:16.659 --> 00:15:18.779 right? He has some strong words about current 00:15:18.779 --> 00:15:21.360 Hollywood trends. This is probably the most provocative 00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:24.259 point in our sources. Mangold has openly called 00:15:24.259 --> 00:15:26.620 the trend of multiverses and interconnected universe 00:15:26.620 --> 00:15:29.720 building the enemy and death of good storytelling. 00:15:29.980 --> 00:15:31.779 That's a pretty bold statement from someone who 00:15:31.779 --> 00:15:34.000 made Logan a hugely successful film within a 00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:36.879 connected universe. It is, but he explains his 00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:39.600 reasoning. He believes when the focus becomes 00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:42.259 all about building these complex, sprawling universes, 00:15:42.679 --> 00:15:45.960 the audience starts caring more about... As he 00:15:45.960 --> 00:15:48.379 puts it, the way the Legos connect. The Easter 00:15:48.379 --> 00:15:51.539 eggs, the timeline hints, how this sets up the 00:15:51.539 --> 00:15:53.919 next 10 movies. Exactly. And if you're spending 00:15:53.919 --> 00:15:55.480 the whole movie trying to figure out where that 00:15:55.480 --> 00:15:58.039 cameo fits or what future plot point is being 00:15:58.039 --> 00:16:00.440 teased, you disconnect from the actual emotional 00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:02.559 story happening right in front of you. So for 00:16:02.559 --> 00:16:05.320 him, when connectivity becomes the main goal, 00:16:05.580 --> 00:16:08.559 character drama suffers. It turns storytelling 00:16:08.559 --> 00:16:11.080 into an intellectual puzzle instead of an emotional 00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:14.309 ride. Yeah. And the irony, or perhaps the strategy, 00:16:14.509 --> 00:16:17.169 is that he sees his own versatility, his genre 00:16:17.169 --> 00:16:19.350 -switching ability, as a way to fight against 00:16:19.350 --> 00:16:21.950 that trend. How so? He views working in different 00:16:21.950 --> 00:16:25.429 genres, action, western, superhero, drama, as 00:16:25.429 --> 00:16:27.990 a continuous learning process. He carries lessons, 00:16:28.250 --> 00:16:30.690 techniques, even thematic ideas from one vernacular, 00:16:30.789 --> 00:16:32.870 as you might say, into the next. Like how he 00:16:32.870 --> 00:16:35.529 infused Logan with the look and feel and themes 00:16:35.529 --> 00:16:38.940 of a western. Precisely. He brought that language 00:16:38.940 --> 00:16:42.720 of moral gray areas, isolation, the harsh landscape 00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:45.679 reflecting the internal struggle. He brought 00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:48.379 that from the Western playbook into a superhero 00:16:48.379 --> 00:16:51.019 film, created something that felt totally new, 00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:54.360 yet also deeply resonant. Okay, so looking ahead 00:16:54.360 --> 00:16:57.340 now. His future projects seem like the ultimate 00:16:57.340 --> 00:16:59.580 test of this whole philosophy, right? Yeah. He's 00:16:59.580 --> 00:17:01.919 taking this character -first, anti -connectivity 00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:04.400 approach into the heart of some of the biggest 00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:07.519 IP ecosystems out there. First up, his role in 00:17:07.519 --> 00:17:10.000 the new DC universe. He's writing and directing 00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:12.579 Swamp Thing. It's part of James Gunn and Peter 00:17:12.579 --> 00:17:15.299 Safran's big Chapter One, Gods and Monsters plan. 00:17:16.039 --> 00:17:18.059 And Gunn himself said this is a passion project 00:17:18.059 --> 00:17:19.960 for Mangold. That's fascinating. The guy who 00:17:19.960 --> 00:17:22.519 thinks universe building kills storytelling is 00:17:22.519 --> 00:17:24.920 hired to lay a foundational stone for a brand 00:17:24.920 --> 00:17:27.500 new cinematic universe. It's the ultimate creative 00:17:27.500 --> 00:17:30.000 paradox, isn't it? Will Swamp Thing be purely 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:32.799 a standalone terrifying horror film about isolation 00:17:32.799 --> 00:17:35.339 classic Mangold? Or will he have to make concessions 00:17:35.339 --> 00:17:37.700 to the bigger DCU Lego set? We'll have to see. 00:17:37.779 --> 00:17:39.579 And the IP gauntlet doesn't stop there. He's 00:17:39.579 --> 00:17:42.400 also directing a Star Wars film. Yeah, one focused 00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:45.539 on the dawn of the Jedi. Exploring the actual 00:17:45.539 --> 00:17:48.039 origins of the Force supposedly set something 00:17:48.039 --> 00:17:51.079 like 25 ,000 years before the prequels. He's 00:17:51.079 --> 00:17:53.299 literally going back to write the origin myth, 00:17:53.460 --> 00:17:55.940 but setting it that far back, that's maybe the 00:17:55.940 --> 00:17:58.640 smartest way to handle a huge IP like Star Wars 00:17:58.640 --> 00:18:01.299 if you want creative freedom. It gives him an 00:18:01.299 --> 00:18:03.519 almost completely blank slate, doesn't it? He 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:05.779 can build new characters, new emotional stakes, 00:18:05.980 --> 00:18:09.019 without bumping into 40 years of detailed Skywalker 00:18:09.019 --> 00:18:11.980 saga lore every five minutes. It's his chance 00:18:11.980 --> 00:18:14.559 to really prove his philosophy, tell a profound, 00:18:14.740 --> 00:18:17.480 emotionally grounded origin story without relying 00:18:17.480 --> 00:18:20.000 on cameos or connecting dots to things we already 00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:22.660 know. And just to show he hasn't completely abandoned 00:18:22.660 --> 00:18:24.779 the kind of prestige dramas he started with, 00:18:24.920 --> 00:18:27.440 he's also reuniting with Timothee Chalamet for 00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:29.740 another film called High Side. Paramount apparently 00:18:29.740 --> 00:18:32.259 won a big bidding war for that one. Okay, so 00:18:32.259 --> 00:18:34.569 summing up. We've got a director who used genre 00:18:34.569 --> 00:18:36.970 hopping like a creative lab, consistently got 00:18:36.970 --> 00:18:39.369 Oscar -level performances from his actors, and 00:18:39.369 --> 00:18:41.430 developed this really clear philosophy about 00:18:41.430 --> 00:18:44.670 character and emotion -shrumping spectacle and 00:18:44.670 --> 00:18:47.109 connectivity. And now, he's right in the thick 00:18:47.109 --> 00:18:50.710 of it, poised to potentially redefine the foundational 00:18:50.710 --> 00:18:53.970 myths of DC and Star Wars, two of the biggest 00:18:53.970 --> 00:18:56.769 IPs on the planet. His career arc is pretty remarkable. 00:18:56.950 --> 00:18:59.230 From winning at Sundance for Heavy back in 95, 00:18:59.609 --> 00:19:01.869 all the way to those reported three major nominations 00:19:01.869 --> 00:19:05.769 for A Complete Unknown in 2024. He just consistently 00:19:05.769 --> 00:19:09.230 brings emotional depth and genre mastery to whatever 00:19:09.230 --> 00:19:11.250 he touches. He's the guy who can take something 00:19:11.250 --> 00:19:13.869 that could be generic franchise filler, X -Men, 00:19:14.029 --> 00:19:16.509 Indiana Jones, and by zeroing in on mortality 00:19:16.509 --> 00:19:19.269 or legacy or failure, he turns it into something 00:19:19.269 --> 00:19:21.329 vital. Something that feels like a character 00:19:21.329 --> 00:19:24.049 study first and a blockbuster second. He makes 00:19:24.049 --> 00:19:26.269 genre serve the drama. So for you listening, 00:19:26.329 --> 00:19:29.150 as you watch how blockbuster cinema evolves, 00:19:29.490 --> 00:19:31.289 what's the big takeaway here? Well, given his 00:19:31.289 --> 00:19:34.349 very strong, very public views that multiverses 00:19:34.349 --> 00:19:36.170 and focusing on how the Legos connect are the 00:19:36.170 --> 00:19:39.029 enemy and death of storytelling, it raises this 00:19:39.029 --> 00:19:41.400 huge question about his future work. Right. What 00:19:41.400 --> 00:19:44.559 happens when James Mangold, this fiercely independent, 00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:48.339 character driven director, is hired not just 00:19:48.339 --> 00:19:50.400 to play in these established universes, but to 00:19:50.400 --> 00:19:53.380 actually lay the foundations for the next generation 00:19:53.380 --> 00:19:56.220 of DC and Star Wars? What impact will his approach 00:19:56.220 --> 00:19:58.599 have? Especially when he seems fundamentally 00:19:58.599 --> 00:20:01.380 opposed to the very connectivity that often defines 00:20:01.380 --> 00:20:04.619 these franchises. Is he going to revolutionize 00:20:04.619 --> 00:20:06.740 them from within or is he setting himself up 00:20:06.740 --> 00:20:09.160 for the ultimate creative clash? The architect 00:20:09.160 --> 00:20:12.039 who dislikes the master plan. That's the story 00:20:12.039 --> 00:20:13.579 we'll all be watching unfold. It's going to be 00:20:13.579 --> 00:20:15.839 fascinating. Thanks for joining us on this deep 00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:18.119 dive into the unique career of James Mangold.