WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.839 Welcome to the Deep Dive. If you need that shortcut 00:00:02.839 --> 00:00:04.940 to getting instantly informed about the really 00:00:04.940 --> 00:00:07.759 complex stories shaping our culture today, well, 00:00:07.879 --> 00:00:09.580 you're definitely in the right place. That's 00:00:09.580 --> 00:00:13.580 right. Today, we're doing a deep dive into, honestly, 00:00:13.720 --> 00:00:17.199 just an extraordinary career arc. Ki Hui Kwan. 00:00:17.320 --> 00:00:19.339 Yeah, this is one of those stories that feels 00:00:19.339 --> 00:00:21.940 bigger than just Hollywood, doesn't it? It's 00:00:21.940 --> 00:00:25.920 really about resilience. Yeah. Smart career moves. 00:00:26.140 --> 00:00:28.399 Yeah. And just playing the long game. Totally. 00:00:28.559 --> 00:00:31.239 We're looking at someone who started out, you 00:00:31.239 --> 00:00:33.520 know, displaced by war, becomes this huge child 00:00:33.520 --> 00:00:36.840 star internationally. Right. Then faces almost 00:00:36.840 --> 00:00:40.799 two decades, basically silence, professionally 00:00:40.799 --> 00:00:42.920 in front of the camera anyway, and then comes 00:00:42.920 --> 00:00:45.600 back with this historic award sweeping success. 00:00:46.260 --> 00:00:48.500 Incredible. And that gap, that 19 year gap, the 00:00:48.500 --> 00:00:50.659 sabbatical, as the sources call it, that's really 00:00:50.659 --> 00:00:52.539 the heart of it, isn't it? What we want to unpack. 00:00:52.719 --> 00:00:55.340 Exactly. Our mission here isn't just to list 00:00:55.340 --> 00:00:58.179 his movies, you know, it's to dig into that long 00:00:58.179 --> 00:01:00.140 middle part, the time he spent working really 00:01:00.140 --> 00:01:02.640 hard behind the camera. We need to understand 00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:05.439 how those technical skills he was building almost 00:01:05.439 --> 00:01:08.480 in secret didn't just get him ready for a comeback, 00:01:08.579 --> 00:01:10.859 but actually made him the only person who could 00:01:10.859 --> 00:01:13.599 have possibly played Waymond Wang. That's the 00:01:13.599 --> 00:01:15.980 core insight, I think. The kid everyone loved 00:01:15.980 --> 00:01:19.219 in the 80s, short round, data. He didn't just 00:01:19.219 --> 00:01:21.340 sit around waiting. No. He actively built this 00:01:21.340 --> 00:01:24.019 really complex, like multi -layered skill set. 00:01:24.079 --> 00:01:26.859 You've got martial arts, serious technical directing 00:01:26.859 --> 00:01:29.159 knowledge. He's multilingual. Yeah. And then. 00:01:29.739 --> 00:01:31.879 When the perfect moment finally came, all those 00:01:31.879 --> 00:01:34.319 things converged. It let him give a performance 00:01:34.319 --> 00:01:37.060 that was so layered, so demanding, that basically 00:01:37.060 --> 00:01:39.900 redefined his entire career and broke some major 00:01:39.900 --> 00:01:42.939 barriers in the industry. It's a masterclass, 00:01:43.040 --> 00:01:44.719 really, in reinventing yourself professionally. 00:01:44.920 --> 00:01:47.099 Okay, so to really get the full picture, we absolutely 00:01:47.099 --> 00:01:48.760 have to start at the beginning. And his beginning 00:01:48.760 --> 00:01:52.870 is a deeply rooted... In conflict and displacement. 00:01:52.909 --> 00:01:55.189 Oh, absolutely. His story is tied right into 00:01:55.189 --> 00:01:57.189 the history of Southeast Asia at that time. He 00:01:57.189 --> 00:01:59.650 was born in Saigon, South Vietnam. The sources 00:01:59.650 --> 00:02:02.390 say either 1970 or 71. Right. And this is crucial. 00:02:02.689 --> 00:02:05.510 His family was of Chinese descent. They were 00:02:05.510 --> 00:02:08.129 part of the Hoa ethnic minority in Vietnam. Why 00:02:08.129 --> 00:02:10.590 is that so important? Well, because after the 00:02:10.590 --> 00:02:13.969 Vietnam War ended in 1975, the situation for 00:02:13.969 --> 00:02:16.210 the Hoa people became really, really dangerous. 00:02:16.469 --> 00:02:19.590 There were intense political and ethnic tensions. 00:02:19.830 --> 00:02:23.270 Got it. So fleeing Vietnam wasn't just like immigrating. 00:02:23.310 --> 00:02:26.210 It was a desperate escape. Absolutely. The sources 00:02:26.210 --> 00:02:28.750 show that just three years after the war, his 00:02:28.750 --> 00:02:32.629 family had to flee. And it led to this just devastating 00:02:32.629 --> 00:02:34.750 separation. No, Sue. The family was literally 00:02:34.750 --> 00:02:38.439 split up, scattered as refugees. Ki Hui Kwan, 00:02:38.560 --> 00:02:41.819 his dad, and five siblings ended up in a refugee 00:02:41.819 --> 00:02:45.139 camp over in Hong Kong. Wow. Meanwhile, his mother 00:02:45.139 --> 00:02:47.639 and three other siblings got separated, and they 00:02:47.639 --> 00:02:49.539 wound up seeking refuge in Malaysia. Can you 00:02:49.539 --> 00:02:52.419 imagine being maybe eight years old, separated 00:02:52.419 --> 00:02:54.460 from your mom, half your siblings, living in 00:02:54.460 --> 00:02:56.650 a camp? The uncertainty must have been immense, 00:02:56.789 --> 00:02:59.030 relying on international aid just to get by. 00:02:59.150 --> 00:03:01.810 It's incredible. And it wasn't until 1979, so 00:03:01.810 --> 00:03:04.169 four years after the war, after all that trauma, 00:03:04.330 --> 00:03:06.370 that they were finally admitted to the U .S. 00:03:06.469 --> 00:03:08.189 Right, through the refugee admissions program. 00:03:08.370 --> 00:03:09.990 Yeah. That's when they settled in California. 00:03:10.009 --> 00:03:12.409 He grew up there, went to Mount Gleason Junior 00:03:12.409 --> 00:03:15.110 High, Alhambra High School. And that background, 00:03:15.349 --> 00:03:18.909 arriving as a refugee. It just makes what happens 00:03:18.909 --> 00:03:20.990 next even more unbelievable. Totally. Within 00:03:20.990 --> 00:03:23.050 just a few years of arriving in the U .S., he 00:03:23.050 --> 00:03:26.169 has this immediate, almost lightning fast rise 00:03:26.169 --> 00:03:29.430 to global fame. Which brings us straight to 1984 00:03:29.430 --> 00:03:32.590 and the role that made him famous overnight, 00:03:32.849 --> 00:03:35.789 Short Round. Indiana Jones and the Temple of 00:03:35.789 --> 00:03:39.449 Doom. And the story of how he got cast, it's 00:03:39.449 --> 00:03:41.710 pure Hollywood legend, right? He was only 13. 00:03:41.969 --> 00:03:44.789 It's amazing. Pure serendipity. The casting director 00:03:44.789 --> 00:03:47.110 was at Castellar Elementary School looking for 00:03:47.110 --> 00:03:49.620 a kid to play Indy's sidekick. Yeah. But they 00:03:49.620 --> 00:03:51.439 weren't even looking at Kei Hui Kwan at first. 00:03:51.580 --> 00:03:54.120 They were auditioning his younger brother. No 00:03:54.120 --> 00:03:56.699 way. Yeah. Apparently Kwan was just there to 00:03:56.699 --> 00:03:58.319 kind of coach his brother, give him pointers, 00:03:58.479 --> 00:04:01.719 run lines. And the director spots this energetic, 00:04:01.860 --> 00:04:04.479 really expressive kid just hanging around. And 00:04:04.479 --> 00:04:07.409 that was it. That was it. He gets the part. playing 00:04:07.409 --> 00:04:09.909 Harrison Ford's 12 -year -old sidekick. I mean, 00:04:09.930 --> 00:04:12.710 think about that leap. Refugee Camp, five years 00:04:12.710 --> 00:04:15.110 earlier, now co -starring in one of the biggest 00:04:15.110 --> 00:04:17.629 movies in the world. The impact was huge. He 00:04:17.629 --> 00:04:20.069 got a Saturn Award nomination right away. Best 00:04:20.069 --> 00:04:22.230 performance by a younger actor. And he didn't 00:04:22.230 --> 00:04:27.009 slow down. The very next year, 1985, boom. The 00:04:27.009 --> 00:04:30.209 Goonies. He becomes Richard Data Wang, the inventor. 00:04:30.449 --> 00:04:33.689 Absolutely. For a whole generation, that one 00:04:33.689 --> 00:04:37.000 -two punch short round, then Data just... burned 00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:41.120 him into memory as like the definitive 80s child 00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:43.319 star. It feels like the story could end there 00:04:43.319 --> 00:04:45.680 for some child actors, but the sources show he 00:04:45.680 --> 00:04:47.639 actually kept working pretty steadily through 00:04:47.639 --> 00:04:49.860 the late 80s, early 90s. And he was surprisingly 00:04:49.860 --> 00:04:52.180 adaptable working internationally, too. Yeah, 00:04:52.220 --> 00:04:54.180 that adaptability is really interesting. He wasn't 00:04:54.180 --> 00:04:56.860 just stuck being the American sidekick. In 86, 00:04:57.000 --> 00:04:59.420 he did a Taiwanese movie, It Takes a Thief, playing 00:04:59.420 --> 00:05:01.800 a pickpocket orphan. OK. Then the next year, 00:05:01.899 --> 00:05:04.819 87, he's in a Japanese film called Passengers. 00:05:05.240 --> 00:05:07.779 So right away, you see him comfortable in different 00:05:07.779 --> 00:05:09.420 production environments, probably using those 00:05:09.420 --> 00:05:11.699 language skills he had. And back in the U .S. 00:05:11.699 --> 00:05:14.139 on TV. A bit of a mixed bag there. He was in 00:05:14.139 --> 00:05:16.819 a family drama, Together We Stand, for about 00:05:16.819 --> 00:05:20.040 19 episodes in 86, 87. Didn't last long. Right. 00:05:20.199 --> 00:05:22.519 But then he landed a main role, Jasper Kwong, 00:05:22.540 --> 00:05:24.779 in the sitcom Head of the Class. That ran from 00:05:24.779 --> 00:05:27.920 1990 to 91, so a more solid gig. Okay, so she's 00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:30.149 working. What else in the 90s? Looking through 00:05:30.149 --> 00:05:32.290 the timeline, he was busy. Breathing Fire in 00:05:32.290 --> 00:05:35.129 91. A small role in Encino Man in 92. Remember 00:05:35.129 --> 00:05:37.550 that one? Vaguely. Brendan Fraser, right? That's 00:05:37.550 --> 00:05:40.889 the one. But then he takes on this huge project. 00:05:41.410 --> 00:05:44.689 He stars in a Taiwanese TV show, Eunuch and Carpenter. 00:05:44.790 --> 00:05:47.649 It was in Mandarin. Ran for 40 episodes in 1993. 00:05:48.149 --> 00:05:51.269 40 episodes. Starring role in Mandarin. Yeah. 00:05:51.660 --> 00:05:53.399 That's a massive undertaking. It really shows 00:05:53.399 --> 00:05:56.100 his range, his global appeal. He was clearly 00:05:56.100 --> 00:05:58.139 a versatile talent. Which makes it even more 00:05:58.139 --> 00:06:01.040 stark when that stream of work eventually just 00:06:01.040 --> 00:06:03.579 dries up. And that leads into this huge pivot, 00:06:03.660 --> 00:06:05.620 the phase that really defines the next 20 years 00:06:05.620 --> 00:06:08.240 for him. Right. This transition, moving away 00:06:08.240 --> 00:06:12.100 from acting around the year 2000. This is really 00:06:12.100 --> 00:06:14.920 the core of our deep dive today. And the reason 00:06:14.920 --> 00:06:16.939 wasn't, you know, a lack of talent or anything. 00:06:17.060 --> 00:06:19.879 It was a pretty harsh reality. What was it? As 00:06:19.879 --> 00:06:23.259 he got older. became an adult, Kei Hui Kwan found 00:06:23.259 --> 00:06:25.319 it incredibly difficult to get acting roles, 00:06:25.500 --> 00:06:28.319 specifically in the U .S. The opportunities just 00:06:28.319 --> 00:06:30.100 weren't there for him anymore. Pretty much. Yeah. 00:06:30.180 --> 00:06:32.920 Or if he was offered parts, they were often like 00:06:32.920 --> 00:06:36.100 really stereotypical flat characters, nothing 00:06:36.100 --> 00:06:38.660 complex, nothing interesting, especially compared 00:06:38.660 --> 00:06:40.899 to the charismatic kid roles he'd had. That must 00:06:40.899 --> 00:06:43.220 have been frustrating. Immensely. It was basically 00:06:43.220 --> 00:06:45.819 a systemic problem, a barrier that ultimately 00:06:45.819 --> 00:06:48.459 pushed him to quit acting. Wow. So he just walked 00:06:48.459 --> 00:06:51.279 away? Not exactly away from the industry, which 00:06:51.279 --> 00:06:53.060 is key. It wasn't a light decision. It sounds 00:06:53.060 --> 00:06:55.160 like more of a professional necessity. Yeah. 00:06:55.339 --> 00:06:57.939 But he made a really strategic move. He went 00:06:57.939 --> 00:07:00.399 back to school. Oh, yeah. Where? He enrolled 00:07:00.399 --> 00:07:02.819 in the film program at USC, University of Southern 00:07:02.819 --> 00:07:05.879 California, a really prestigious program. Smart. 00:07:05.899 --> 00:07:07.779 So if he couldn't get in front of the camera. 00:07:08.040 --> 00:07:10.360 He decided to learn how to master everything 00:07:10.360 --> 00:07:14.050 behind it. Yeah. And did he thrive there? Seems 00:07:14.050 --> 00:07:16.009 like it. The sources mention he wasn't just, 00:07:16.009 --> 00:07:18.209 you know, attending classes. While he was a student, 00:07:18.370 --> 00:07:21.310 he actually edited a short film, a comedy horror 00:07:21.310 --> 00:07:24.829 short called Voodoo. Okay. And that film, directed 00:07:24.829 --> 00:07:27.589 by a friend, Greg Bishop, it won the Audience 00:07:27.589 --> 00:07:29.870 Award at the Slamdance Film Festival back in 00:07:29.870 --> 00:07:32.470 2000. That's significant. Slamdance is a big 00:07:32.470 --> 00:07:34.790 deal for indie film. Totally. And what's really 00:07:34.790 --> 00:07:37.810 interesting is thinking about editing. It requires 00:07:37.810 --> 00:07:41.970 this deep understanding of pacing. Timing, emotional 00:07:41.970 --> 00:07:44.269 beats, continuity. Skills that would actually 00:07:44.269 --> 00:07:46.269 help an actor, right? But from a technical side. 00:07:46.470 --> 00:07:48.550 Exactly. And apparently voodoo is still shown 00:07:48.550 --> 00:07:51.889 to USC film students today, which says a lot 00:07:51.889 --> 00:07:53.509 about the quality of his work even back then. 00:07:53.629 --> 00:07:55.910 So he's building these technical skills, editing. 00:07:56.569 --> 00:07:58.649 But there was another skill set he already had, 00:07:58.769 --> 00:08:00.910 right? Something that gave him an immediate way 00:08:00.910 --> 00:08:04.829 back onto film sets. Yes. Martial arts and stunt 00:08:04.829 --> 00:08:07.389 coordination. Ah, right. From his childhood. 00:08:08.379 --> 00:08:10.800 This is where that early foundation really paid 00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:13.959 off. He'd studied taekwondo with Philip Tan way 00:08:13.959 --> 00:08:17.060 back on the set of Indiana Jones. Wow. And he 00:08:17.060 --> 00:08:19.819 kept training later on, studied under a master 00:08:19.819 --> 00:08:22.800 named Taoliang Tan, eventually got a second degree 00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:26.199 black belt. That's serious dedication. And that 00:08:26.199 --> 00:08:28.660 physical expertise, that was the key. It unlocked 00:08:28.660 --> 00:08:31.019 almost two decades of steady work behind the 00:08:31.019 --> 00:08:33.320 scenes. OK, let's get into that behind the scenes 00:08:33.320 --> 00:08:35.580 work, because it's not just like fetching coffee. 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:38.409 He had some serious technical roles. for nearly 00:08:38.409 --> 00:08:41.269 20 years, both in Asia and the U .S. He really 00:08:41.269 --> 00:08:43.490 did. He became this kind of film industry Swiss 00:08:43.490 --> 00:08:45.809 army knife. So where did he start with the stunt 00:08:45.809 --> 00:08:48.070 stuff? His entry point was immediate and huge. 00:08:48.529 --> 00:08:50.870 Because of his martial arts background, he landed 00:08:50.870 --> 00:08:53.649 a role as assistant fight choreographer and translator 00:08:53.649 --> 00:08:57.190 on the first X -Men movie in 2000. X -Men, wow. 00:08:57.350 --> 00:09:00.450 Who brought him in? The legendary Hong Kong choreographer 00:09:00.450 --> 00:09:03.190 Corey Yuen. He invited Kwan onto the project. 00:09:03.330 --> 00:09:05.570 Okay, hold on. Assistant fight choreographer 00:09:05.570 --> 00:09:08.029 on X -Men. What does that actually involve? It 00:09:08.029 --> 00:09:10.070 sounds way more complex than just being a stunt 00:09:10.070 --> 00:09:13.769 performer. Oh, it's intensely technical. You're 00:09:13.769 --> 00:09:16.470 the bridge, basically, between the director's 00:09:16.470 --> 00:09:19.149 big action vision and making it happen safely 00:09:19.149 --> 00:09:21.250 and effectively on set. Right. You're breaking 00:09:21.250 --> 00:09:24.250 down these really complex fight sequences into 00:09:24.250 --> 00:09:26.610 movements the actors in stunt doubles can actually 00:09:26.610 --> 00:09:28.929 do. You might be teaching people who don't have 00:09:28.929 --> 00:09:30.990 a martial arts background. And a translator part? 00:09:31.659 --> 00:09:34.779 That was literal, too. Helping the Eastern choreography 00:09:34.779 --> 00:09:38.460 team, like Corey Ewan's crew, communicate clearly 00:09:38.460 --> 00:09:40.679 with the Western production side. That takes 00:09:40.679 --> 00:09:43.860 incredible patience, precision, clarity. Okay, 00:09:43.919 --> 00:09:46.419 so a really demanding start. Did that lead to 00:09:46.419 --> 00:09:49.519 more work? Immediately. The very next year, 2001, 00:09:49.879 --> 00:09:52.470 he's working with Corey Ewan again. This time 00:09:52.470 --> 00:09:55.250 as assistant action choreography director on 00:09:55.250 --> 00:09:58.590 the Jetline movie, The One. Ah, The One. Lots 00:09:58.590 --> 00:10:00.730 of action in that. Totally. It's defined by those 00:10:00.730 --> 00:10:03.350 intricate fights. So as assistant action choreography 00:10:03.350 --> 00:10:05.669 director, he's deep in the mechanics of how you 00:10:05.669 --> 00:10:07.590 tell a story through movement. Like how the camera 00:10:07.590 --> 00:10:09.789 needs to move, how actors hit marks. Exactly. 00:10:10.070 --> 00:10:12.730 Capturing speed, impact, making sure it's safe, 00:10:12.830 --> 00:10:14.990 but also making sure every punch, every kick 00:10:14.990 --> 00:10:17.750 actually serves the story. These are filmmaking 00:10:17.750 --> 00:10:20.070 skills, not just acting skills. This is fascinating. 00:10:20.110 --> 00:10:22.909 He's building this whole. other career. But maybe 00:10:22.909 --> 00:10:25.649 the most surprising credit from this period is 00:10:25.649 --> 00:10:28.870 working with Wong Kar Wai, right? Yes. In 2004, 00:10:29.090 --> 00:10:31.889 he was an assistant director on Wong Kar Wai's 00:10:31.889 --> 00:10:35.330 film 2046, which is, you know, this critically 00:10:35.330 --> 00:10:38.129 acclaimed, visually stunning, very specific kind 00:10:38.129 --> 00:10:40.490 of movie. Wong Kar Wai has a reputation for being 00:10:41.820 --> 00:10:44.519 Meticulous is an understatement. Yeah. Perfectionist. 00:10:44.539 --> 00:10:46.659 His sets are known for being kind of chaotic, 00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:50.200 fluid. He reshoots constantly, rewrites scenes 00:10:50.200 --> 00:10:52.659 on the fly, searching for that perfect emotional 00:10:52.659 --> 00:10:55.379 moment. So what does an assistant director do 00:10:55.379 --> 00:10:58.000 on a set like that? Sounds like chaos management. 00:10:58.679 --> 00:11:00.759 it's partly that but it's also being a master 00:11:00.759 --> 00:11:03.220 of continuity scheduling even emotional blocking 00:11:03.220 --> 00:11:05.899 you have to track microscopic details like the 00:11:05.899 --> 00:11:08.399 exact angle of light in a shot filmed weeks ago 00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:11.080 where a prop was placed the tiny shift in an 00:11:11.080 --> 00:11:13.799 actor's expression across multiple takes it demands 00:11:13.799 --> 00:11:16.220 incredible patience and it teaches you that every 00:11:16.220 --> 00:11:19.299 single tiny detail builds towards the character's 00:11:19.299 --> 00:11:21.440 emotional truth that feels like a really key 00:11:21.440 --> 00:11:24.440 connection because wayman wang in everything 00:11:24.440 --> 00:11:27.320 everywhere all at once that role required him 00:11:27.320 --> 00:11:30.120 to shift between three totally distinct personalities 00:11:30.120 --> 00:11:33.139 exactly the sweet kind of down on his luck husband 00:11:33.139 --> 00:11:36.299 then a super smooth capable alpha waymond and 00:11:36.299 --> 00:11:39.169 the martial arts action hero waymond yeah You 00:11:39.169 --> 00:11:41.809 could almost argue that the A .D. work on 2046 00:11:41.809 --> 00:11:44.610 taught him the insane level of detail needed 00:11:44.610 --> 00:11:47.309 to track those three different emotional states, 00:11:47.529 --> 00:11:50.210 keep them distinct but connected. I think that's 00:11:50.210 --> 00:11:52.470 a very strong possibility. He wasn't just drifting 00:11:52.470 --> 00:11:55.730 for 19 years. He was mastering the technical 00:11:55.730 --> 00:11:59.049 side, the physical side, the organizational complexity 00:11:59.049 --> 00:12:01.309 of filmmaking at a really high level internationally. 00:12:01.809 --> 00:12:04.610 He went from being maybe a typecast actor. To 00:12:04.610 --> 00:12:06.629 being this complete storyteller who understood 00:12:06.629 --> 00:12:09.370 how every single department. worked he was maybe 00:12:09.370 --> 00:12:11.549 without even realizing it fully building the 00:12:11.549 --> 00:12:13.990 perfect toolkit for a character that needed all 00:12:13.990 --> 00:12:16.610 those skills at the same time okay so he spends 00:12:16.610 --> 00:12:19.289 nearly two decades building this incredible diverse 00:12:19.289 --> 00:12:22.889 skill set behind the camera what was it what 00:12:22.889 --> 00:12:25.809 finally pulled this frankly overqualified professional 00:12:25.809 --> 00:12:29.450 back into acting the sources point to one specific 00:12:29.450 --> 00:12:33.289 thing the huge success of Crazy Rich Asians in 00:12:33.289 --> 00:12:37.009 2018. Ah, right. That movie was massive. Culturally 00:12:37.009 --> 00:12:40.529 and commercially, it proved, like definitively, 00:12:40.529 --> 00:12:43.950 that audiences are hungry for complex, interesting, 00:12:44.230 --> 00:12:47.429 non -stereotypical stories led by Asian actors 00:12:47.429 --> 00:12:49.690 and creators. It showed him the landscape had 00:12:49.690 --> 00:12:52.529 actually changed. Exactly. It showed him maybe... 00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:55.259 Just maybe there was a space now for the kind 00:12:55.259 --> 00:12:57.700 of roles he'd wanted all along. A door that had 00:12:57.700 --> 00:13:00.019 been slammed shut for him as a young adult might 00:13:00.019 --> 00:13:02.440 finally be open. And his first rollback almost 00:13:02.440 --> 00:13:04.500 seems faded, doesn't it? A little nod to his 00:13:04.500 --> 00:13:07.740 past. It really does. His first major film after 00:13:07.740 --> 00:13:09.960 the hiatus was for Netflix. An adventure movie 00:13:09.960 --> 00:13:12.500 called Finding Ohana came out in 2021. And the 00:13:12.500 --> 00:13:14.600 casting story there is pretty great, too. It's 00:13:14.600 --> 00:13:16.700 amazing. It highlights being prepared and just 00:13:16.700 --> 00:13:19.399 being in the right place. He apparently overheard 00:13:19.399 --> 00:13:21.960 the director, Jude Wang, describing the movie 00:13:21.960 --> 00:13:24.519 to someone. And she said. She described it as, 00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:28.139 quote, the Goonies meets Indiana Jones. You can't 00:13:28.139 --> 00:13:31.419 make this stuff up. Right. The irony. After two 00:13:31.419 --> 00:13:34.159 decades maybe trying to move beyond those roles, 00:13:34.379 --> 00:13:37.200 they become the very words that unlock his first 00:13:37.200 --> 00:13:39.220 step back in. It was like a gentle reintroduction. 00:13:39.279 --> 00:13:42.120 Hey, industry, remember me. I'm ready. Exactly. 00:13:42.759 --> 00:13:46.700 Successful? But then came the absolute tidal 00:13:46.700 --> 00:13:49.679 wave, the phenomenon. Everything, everywhere, 00:13:49.840 --> 00:13:53.419 all at once. 2022. Yeah. And the directors, the 00:13:53.419 --> 00:13:55.379 Daniels, they were really struggling to cast 00:13:55.379 --> 00:13:57.659 Wayman Wang, weren't they? Oh, massively. The 00:13:57.659 --> 00:14:00.340 role was a casting nightmare. Think about what 00:14:00.340 --> 00:14:02.200 it demands. Okay, break it down. You need brilliant 00:14:02.200 --> 00:14:05.419 comedic timing. You need deep, profound emotional 00:14:05.419 --> 00:14:09.070 vulnerability. You need language skills. Cantonese, 00:14:09.110 --> 00:14:11.490 English, Mandarin are all in there. And you need 00:14:11.490 --> 00:14:13.950 high -level martial arts ability and physical 00:14:13.950 --> 00:14:16.169 action chops. It's like three or four different 00:14:16.169 --> 00:14:19.070 actors rolled into one. Most actors excel in 00:14:19.070 --> 00:14:21.029 maybe one or two of those. And how did they find 00:14:21.029 --> 00:14:23.250 him? Almost by chance, according to the sources. 00:14:23.570 --> 00:14:25.809 Co -director Daniel Kwan was just scrolling Twitter, 00:14:25.970 --> 00:14:28.970 saw Kihua Kwan, recognized him from the 80s, 00:14:28.970 --> 00:14:31.629 and had this lightbulb moment, realized he was 00:14:31.629 --> 00:14:34.490 the right age, had the physical capability. Could 00:14:34.490 --> 00:14:36.929 this be the guy? And the timing for Kwan himself 00:14:36.929 --> 00:14:41.009 was just perfect. Unbelievably poetic. He had 00:14:41.009 --> 00:14:43.429 just signed with a talent agent again, literally 00:14:43.429 --> 00:14:45.389 two weeks before he got the audition call from 00:14:45.389 --> 00:14:47.389 the Daniels. He said it was like taking a leap 00:14:47.389 --> 00:14:50.429 of faith. And that 20 years of preparation just 00:14:50.429 --> 00:14:53.649 slams right into that one moment of perfect opportunity. 00:14:54.029 --> 00:14:56.549 Precisely. The film comes out in March 2022, 00:14:56.889 --> 00:15:01.379 and the reaction is just... Instant. Huge critical 00:15:01.379 --> 00:15:04.139 acclaim, but also this massive cultural buzz. 00:15:04.419 --> 00:15:07.139 Yeah. And his performance is Waymond. All three 00:15:07.139 --> 00:15:09.980 Waymonds. Wow. It was the heart of the film for 00:15:09.980 --> 00:15:12.639 so many people. That vulnerability, then the 00:15:12.639 --> 00:15:14.799 sudden explosion of skill with Alpha Waymond. 00:15:14.820 --> 00:15:17.580 It was the anchor. Totally. And that connection 00:15:17.580 --> 00:15:19.960 with audiences, that critical love, it translated 00:15:19.960 --> 00:15:21.919 into one of the biggest award sweeps we've seen 00:15:21.919 --> 00:15:24.019 in years. We really need to pause and appreciate 00:15:24.019 --> 00:15:26.320 the scale of this. He won the Oscar for Best 00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:28.850 Supporting Actor. Yep. The Golden Globe. The 00:15:28.850 --> 00:15:31.649 Screen Actors Guild Award. All in 2022 for that 00:15:31.649 --> 00:15:34.809 one role. And the Oscar win. It wasn't just a 00:15:34.809 --> 00:15:38.090 comeback win. It was genuinely historic. Hugely 00:15:38.090 --> 00:15:41.570 historic. He became the first Vietnam -born actor 00:15:41.570 --> 00:15:44.970 ever to win an Academy Award for acting. Ever. 00:15:45.870 --> 00:15:48.029 That's incredible. And put it in wider context, 00:15:48.350 --> 00:15:50.570 he's only the second actor of Asian descent to 00:15:50.570 --> 00:15:52.779 win Best Supporting Actor. The first was Heng 00:15:52.779 --> 00:15:55.779 S. Noor for The Killing Fields way back in 1985. 00:15:56.059 --> 00:15:58.960 Almost 40 years between those wins. 40 years. 00:15:59.039 --> 00:16:02.360 It really highlights how slow progress has been 00:16:02.360 --> 00:16:05.179 for representation at that highest level in Hollywood. 00:16:05.679 --> 00:16:07.659 He also broke ground at the SAG Awards, right? 00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:10.580 First Asian man to win any individual acting 00:16:10.580 --> 00:16:13.100 category there. The impact of this return was 00:16:13.100 --> 00:16:15.340 just massive, felt everywhere. Which led to Time 00:16:15.340 --> 00:16:18.059 magazine naming him one of their 100 most influential 00:16:18.059 --> 00:16:20.980 people in the world in 2023. It cemented his 00:16:20.980 --> 00:16:23.759 status. This wasn't just a feel -good story. 00:16:23.940 --> 00:16:26.039 It was a powerful statement about the kind of 00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:28.139 talent the industry had overlooked for so long. 00:16:28.299 --> 00:16:30.019 And crucially, this isn't just a one -hit wonder 00:16:30.019 --> 00:16:32.879 situation. He's immediately booked and busy proving 00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:34.639 he's here to stay. Absolutely. Look at his TV 00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:36.440 work right after. He was in the Disney Plus series 00:16:36.440 --> 00:16:39.889 American Born Chinese in 2023. Right. And maybe 00:16:39.889 --> 00:16:42.509 even bigger, he joined the main cast of Marvel's 00:16:42.509 --> 00:16:47.029 Loki for season two, also in 2023. Played Ouroboros 00:16:47.029 --> 00:16:50.889 OB, that quirky TVA tech guy. He was great in 00:16:50.889 --> 00:16:53.370 that. So different from Wayvend. Totally different. 00:16:53.470 --> 00:16:55.450 And he got a Critics' Choice nomination for it. 00:16:55.470 --> 00:16:58.350 That ability to jump from the intense drama of 00:16:58.350 --> 00:17:03.289 EAO to the complex sci -fi lore and dry humor 00:17:03.289 --> 00:17:06.349 of the MCU, that shows the incredible range he 00:17:06.349 --> 00:17:09.240 built during that sabbatical. He's not just playing 00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:11.500 parts, he's building characters. And his film 00:17:11.500 --> 00:17:13.640 slate is packed, too. Seems like he's in everything 00:17:13.640 --> 00:17:16.059 now. Pretty much. Voice role in Kung Fu Panda 00:17:16.059 --> 00:17:18.980 4 as Han. A lead role in an action film called 00:17:18.980 --> 00:17:21.299 Love Hurts coming up. He's in the big sci -fi 00:17:21.299 --> 00:17:23.599 movie The Electric State. Even doing a voice 00:17:23.599 --> 00:17:26.839 in Zootopia 2. Wow. He's everywhere. And the 00:17:26.839 --> 00:17:29.400 final seal of approval, really. In June 2023, 00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:31.500 he was officially invited to join the Academy 00:17:31.500 --> 00:17:34.500 of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences as an actor. 00:17:34.579 --> 00:17:36.839 The establishment that once couldn't find roles 00:17:36.839 --> 00:17:39.940 for him now welcomes him in full circle. So before 00:17:39.940 --> 00:17:41.480 we wrap this up, we really should touch on the 00:17:41.480 --> 00:17:43.359 personal side, the support system that kind of 00:17:43.359 --> 00:17:45.299 helped him navigate this incredible comeback. 00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:48.019 Good point. Let's quickly just restate his background, 00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:50.980 Han Chinese heritage, from the Hoa minority in 00:17:50.980 --> 00:17:54.519 Vietnam. Right. And his languages. Fluent English, 00:17:54.720 --> 00:17:57.839 Cantonese, Mandarin. That multilingual skill 00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:01.369 is a huge asset. Obviously essential for EEAAO, 00:18:01.549 --> 00:18:03.910 but also just in today's global film market. 00:18:04.049 --> 00:18:06.529 Definitely. Now talk about the personal connections 00:18:06.529 --> 00:18:08.769 that intersected with his professional life in 00:18:08.769 --> 00:18:12.089 really amazing ways. His wife, Echo Kwan. Yes. 00:18:12.430 --> 00:18:15.309 Echo played this really important, though maybe 00:18:15.309 --> 00:18:18.930 quiet, role on the set of Everything Everywhere 00:18:18.930 --> 00:18:21.529 All at Once. What did she do? She served as the 00:18:21.529 --> 00:18:24.250 on -set translator. Really? Yeah. Think about 00:18:24.250 --> 00:18:26.630 how complex that film was. The emotional intensity, 00:18:27.049 --> 00:18:29.869 the need for abs - Absolute clarity between the 00:18:29.869 --> 00:18:32.589 directors, the crew, and the actors. Like Michelle 00:18:32.589 --> 00:18:34.789 Yeoh and Kwon himself were using multiple languages. 00:18:35.049 --> 00:18:37.170 Having your wife, someone you trust implicitly, 00:18:37.170 --> 00:18:39.490 handling that crucial communication bridge. It 00:18:39.490 --> 00:18:41.710 must have been invaluable. A really deep professional 00:18:41.710 --> 00:18:43.690 bond right there during his defining comeback 00:18:43.690 --> 00:18:46.789 performance. That's incredible. But the connection 00:18:46.789 --> 00:18:50.250 that always gets the biggest wow reaction, the 00:18:50.250 --> 00:18:52.230 one that feels like it's straight out of a movie 00:18:52.230 --> 00:18:54.789 script, is the link back to the Goonies. Oh, 00:18:54.789 --> 00:18:58.109 yeah. Jeff Cohen. Chunk. Chunk himself. The symmetry 00:18:58.109 --> 00:19:00.609 is just unbelievable. Jeff Cohen played the truffle 00:19:00.609 --> 00:19:03.490 shuffling kid. He also stepped away from acting 00:19:03.490 --> 00:19:06.589 eventually, like Juan. But he built this incredibly 00:19:06.589 --> 00:19:09.869 successful second career. That's it. Top entertainment 00:19:09.869 --> 00:19:13.859 lawyer. Get out. Seriously. Seriously. Highly 00:19:13.859 --> 00:19:16.319 successful. And the sources confirm he and Kwan 00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:19.180 stayed genuine close friends all those years. 00:19:19.380 --> 00:19:21.980 That's amazing in itself. It is. So when Kwan 00:19:21.980 --> 00:19:24.640 decided he needed to get back into acting seriously, 00:19:24.859 --> 00:19:27.680 who do you think he turned to for legal advice, 00:19:27.819 --> 00:19:29.859 for representation? It had to be Jeff Cohen. 00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:33.039 It was. Jeff Cohen became Kwan's entertainment 00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:35.359 lawyer. Yeah. And he was the one who negotiated 00:19:35.359 --> 00:19:37.579 the contract for everything, everywhere, all 00:19:37.579 --> 00:19:40.539 at once. Stop it. Chunk negotiated the Oscar 00:19:40.539 --> 00:19:43.150 -winning deal for short round data. That's the 00:19:43.150 --> 00:19:45.589 story. It's perfect. It really underscores how 00:19:45.589 --> 00:19:48.190 those connections you make early on, even as 00:19:48.190 --> 00:19:50.829 kids on a movie set, can become this vital professional 00:19:50.829 --> 00:19:53.789 support system decades later. It's a testament 00:19:53.789 --> 00:19:56.349 to loyalty surviving in, let's face it, a pretty 00:19:56.349 --> 00:19:59.569 tough business. What a story. Hashtag tag tag 00:19:59.569 --> 00:20:01.990 outro. So when you step back and look at the 00:20:01.990 --> 00:20:05.849 whole thing, it's just an incredible journey, 00:20:05.890 --> 00:20:10.650 isn't it? From refugee kid in 79 to instant global 00:20:10.650 --> 00:20:14.079 fame. Right. Then facing that professional wall, 00:20:14.259 --> 00:20:17.859 the typecasting, making that smart, deliberate 00:20:17.859 --> 00:20:20.519 pivot behind the scenes. Yeah. That rigorous 00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:22.660 work. And then staging this comeback that wasn't 00:20:22.660 --> 00:20:25.259 just successful. It was unprecedented. Hmm. Historic. 00:20:25.299 --> 00:20:27.259 And the key thing isn't just that he came back. 00:20:27.259 --> 00:20:29.400 It's how he didn't return just leaning on nostalgia. 00:20:29.420 --> 00:20:32.700 He came back as like. A complete filmmaker in 00:20:32.700 --> 00:20:34.559 an actor's body. That's a great way to put it. 00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:36.259 He took the discipline from his martial arts, 00:20:36.299 --> 00:20:39.220 the fight choreography, the deep logistical brain 00:20:39.220 --> 00:20:41.500 he must have developed as an AD on a film like 00:20:41.500 --> 00:20:43.799 2046. Yeah, the patience. Yeah, his language 00:20:43.799 --> 00:20:45.900 skills, plus, you know, the charm he always had. 00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:49.000 And he poured every single bit of that into Wayman 00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:50.980 Wang. All three of them. That perfect storm. 00:20:51.160 --> 00:20:53.900 Right. The USC training, the action expertise, 00:20:54.039 --> 00:20:56.740 the AD experience, and then having his childhood 00:20:56.740 --> 00:20:59.579 friend negotiate the deal. It all came together. 00:20:59.660 --> 00:21:02.220 Yeah. It made his second act arguably way more 00:21:02.220 --> 00:21:04.440 impactful, more meaningful than his first. It 00:21:04.440 --> 00:21:06.920 wasn't just an acting comeback. It was like a 00:21:06.920 --> 00:21:09.440 victory for strategic career development. He 00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:11.519 didn't fail at acting. He invested in understanding 00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:13.539 the whole industry when the market wasn't right 00:21:13.539 --> 00:21:16.000 for him. Exactly. Which leaves us with a really 00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:18.539 interesting thought for you, the listener, to 00:21:18.539 --> 00:21:21.720 take away from this deep dive. When you look 00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:24.619 at all the awards, his barrier breaking status. 00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:28.359 What does Ki Hoi Kwan's story really tell us 00:21:28.359 --> 00:21:30.660 about the hidden value of skills you pick up 00:21:30.660 --> 00:21:33.579 during maybe career detours or downturns? Things 00:21:33.579 --> 00:21:36.359 like being an assistant director or a fight choreographer, 00:21:36.579 --> 00:21:39.680 sometimes seen as, you know, fallback jobs. But 00:21:39.680 --> 00:21:42.140 his story shows they can become the absolute 00:21:42.140 --> 00:21:44.539 key ingredients for your biggest success when 00:21:44.539 --> 00:21:47.559 that perfect, really complex opportunity finally 00:21:47.559 --> 00:21:50.759 shows up. So maybe think about it. What skills 00:21:50.759 --> 00:21:53.279 are you honing right now, perhaps on a detour, 00:21:53.279 --> 00:21:56.259 that might one day make you uniquely, perfectly 00:21:56.259 --> 00:21:58.920 overqualified for the thing you really want to 00:21:58.920 --> 00:22:01.619 do? That's a powerful question to ponder. Thanks 00:22:01.619 --> 00:22:03.480 for joining us for this deep dive. We'll catch 00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:04.059 you next time.