WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.819 Welcome to The Deep Dive. Today we're opening 00:00:02.819 --> 00:00:05.759 the book on an artist who really embodies musical 00:00:05.759 --> 00:00:08.720 integrity, Marshall Crenshaw. He's a musician 00:00:08.720 --> 00:00:11.279 whose name, you know, it should be synonymous 00:00:11.279 --> 00:00:14.599 with just perfect melodic songwriting. Absolutely. 00:00:14.859 --> 00:00:17.239 Pitch perfect is the word. Yeah, exactly. Yet 00:00:17.239 --> 00:00:19.500 maybe he's best known for two things he didn't 00:00:19.500 --> 00:00:22.059 strictly do himself, playing someone else's part 00:00:22.059 --> 00:00:25.420 and co -writing this huge hit for another band. 00:00:25.920 --> 00:00:27.640 And that tension right there, that's what makes 00:00:27.640 --> 00:00:30.899 his whole career so fascinating to unpack. We're 00:00:30.899 --> 00:00:32.479 talking about Marshall Howard Crenshaw, born 00:00:32.479 --> 00:00:35.280 53 in Detroit. Right. For a lot of people, he's 00:00:35.280 --> 00:00:37.979 basically the architect of power pop. Yeah. Even 00:00:37.979 --> 00:00:40.340 though, well, that's a title he actually pushes 00:00:40.340 --> 00:00:41.939 back against quite a bit. Definitely get into 00:00:41.939 --> 00:00:44.299 that. Our sources, they show this, what, four 00:00:44.299 --> 00:00:46.679 decade plus career. It's just a master class 00:00:46.679 --> 00:00:48.979 in staying creatively relevant. It really is. 00:00:49.320 --> 00:00:51.960 We're going to trace his journey from the stage 00:00:51.960 --> 00:00:54.689 of Beatlemania. all the way to co -writing that 00:00:54.689 --> 00:00:57.409 massive 90s radio hit you mentioned. And we've 00:00:57.409 --> 00:01:00.490 got a pretty rich biographical file here, details 00:01:00.490 --> 00:01:02.770 on his early life, the discography, which is 00:01:02.770 --> 00:01:06.769 complex. It has its twists and turns. His surprising 00:01:06.769 --> 00:01:09.790 success in Hollywood, too, and just his lasting 00:01:09.790 --> 00:01:12.709 legacy. So our mission today is really to unpack 00:01:12.709 --> 00:01:16.000 this whole story. Yeah, this isn't just, you 00:01:16.000 --> 00:01:18.799 know, a list of dates and albums. It's a narrative 00:01:18.799 --> 00:01:21.659 about a true craftsman trying to navigate that 00:01:21.659 --> 00:01:24.819 really tricky, sometimes frustrating space between 00:01:24.819 --> 00:01:28.659 getting rave reviews like universal critical 00:01:28.659 --> 00:01:31.299 acclaim. And then the sort of relentless demands 00:01:31.299 --> 00:01:34.260 of mainstream commercial success, the charts, 00:01:34.400 --> 00:01:37.280 the radio play. Exactly. And the key thing for 00:01:37.280 --> 00:01:39.840 you, the learner listening in, is that Marshall 00:01:39.840 --> 00:01:42.280 Crenshaw was, well, fundamentally too original. 00:01:42.780 --> 00:01:45.439 too skilled to just be boxed in by those early 00:01:45.439 --> 00:01:48.000 comparisons or, you know, whatever genre label 00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:51.540 was trendy at the moment. His story really shows 00:01:51.540 --> 00:01:53.680 that when the industry maybe doesn't quite get 00:01:53.680 --> 00:01:56.359 the artist or fails them in some way, the artist 00:01:56.359 --> 00:01:58.540 has to get strategic. They have to redefine what 00:01:58.540 --> 00:02:00.799 success even looks like. And often, like you 00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:02.700 said, they find their biggest impact, their biggest 00:02:02.700 --> 00:02:04.780 footprint through these kind of indirect ways. 00:02:05.099 --> 00:02:07.000 OK, let's start right at the beginning. The foundation, 00:02:07.319 --> 00:02:11.879 Detroit and Michigan, born 53. Grew up in Berkeley. 00:02:11.979 --> 00:02:14.500 That's a northern suburb of Detroit. Graduated 00:02:14.500 --> 00:02:18.639 high school 71. And that location. Well, Berkeley, 00:02:18.780 --> 00:02:20.120 really, that's pretty important, right? Yeah. 00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:21.680 Because Detroit obviously means rock. It means 00:02:21.680 --> 00:02:25.219 soul. Yeah, Motown, MC5. Right. But those suburban 00:02:25.219 --> 00:02:28.340 roots, they kind of point towards a maybe more 00:02:28.340 --> 00:02:31.460 refined absorption of classic American pop culture. 00:02:31.560 --> 00:02:33.740 Yeah. Not just the raw energy. That makes sense. 00:02:33.860 --> 00:02:36.500 And he started guitar young, age 10. Smack dab 00:02:36.500 --> 00:02:39.319 in the middle of the 60s, pop explosion. Think 00:02:39.319 --> 00:02:41.680 about that timing. Perfect timing. But the most 00:02:41.680 --> 00:02:43.759 telling detail, I think, about his whole musical 00:02:43.759 --> 00:02:45.759 philosophy, it comes from his high school band. 00:02:46.110 --> 00:02:49.330 Okay. They were called Astigfa. A -S -T -I -G 00:02:49.330 --> 00:02:53.169 -F -A. Astigfa. What does that even mean? It 00:02:53.169 --> 00:02:55.590 wasn't just some, you know, cool sounding garage 00:02:55.590 --> 00:02:59.069 band name. It was an acronym. It stood for A 00:02:59.069 --> 00:03:02.830 Splendid Time is Guaranteed for All. Oh, of course. 00:03:02.909 --> 00:03:05.250 That's a Beatles lyric. Being for the benefit 00:03:05.250 --> 00:03:08.330 of Mr. Kite from Steak Tet Pepper. Exactly. Right 00:03:08.330 --> 00:03:10.650 there. Before he'd even recorded anything original 00:03:10.650 --> 00:03:14.469 professionally. That's a crystal clear declaration 00:03:14.469 --> 00:03:18.490 of his core musical DNA. You can't get much clearer 00:03:18.490 --> 00:03:20.629 than that. It really speaks volumes, doesn't 00:03:20.629 --> 00:03:23.810 it? It signals that he was maybe less interested 00:03:23.810 --> 00:03:27.310 in just like the raw aggression of rock and more 00:03:27.310 --> 00:03:30.969 focused on that sophisticated, meticulously constructed, 00:03:31.189 --> 00:03:34.650 almost theatrical pop sensibility of the mid 00:03:34.650 --> 00:03:37.030 to late 60s Beatles. Yeah, he internalized that 00:03:37.030 --> 00:03:41.110 blueprint. Melody, structure, arrangement. That 00:03:41.110 --> 00:03:43.830 was his focus. And that kind of deep study, that 00:03:43.830 --> 00:03:46.030 apprenticeship in structured pop perfection, 00:03:46.229 --> 00:03:49.530 it led almost directly to his first major professional 00:03:49.530 --> 00:03:52.289 break. Right. A role that, well, it did two things 00:03:52.289 --> 00:03:54.229 at once, didn't it? It honed his craft, but it 00:03:54.229 --> 00:03:56.610 also set up those enduring and maybe slightly 00:03:56.610 --> 00:03:59.030 annoying for him comparisons he'd spend his career 00:03:59.030 --> 00:04:00.810 kind of dealing with. That would be the Beatlemania 00:04:00.810 --> 00:04:03.689 story. Yeah. 1978, he lands the part playing 00:04:03.689 --> 00:04:06.009 John Lennon. Wow. Started as an understudy in 00:04:06.009 --> 00:04:07.349 New York, then he was in the West Coast Company, 00:04:07.449 --> 00:04:08.969 the national touring company. So he was really 00:04:08.969 --> 00:04:12.439 doing it. Oh, yeah. For two solid years, he finally 00:04:12.439 --> 00:04:15.400 left the show in February 1980, ready to make 00:04:15.400 --> 00:04:17.500 the jump into writing and performing his own 00:04:17.500 --> 00:04:19.319 music. We should probably pause on that for a 00:04:19.319 --> 00:04:21.040 second. Think about the kind of training that 00:04:21.040 --> 00:04:23.620 provides. It's not just performing songs. It's 00:04:23.620 --> 00:04:26.959 like reverse engineering brilliance, eight shows 00:04:26.959 --> 00:04:30.680 a week. He had to inhabit the vocal style, the 00:04:30.680 --> 00:04:33.779 guitar voicings, the arrangement choices of, 00:04:33.819 --> 00:04:37.300 well, John Lennon. One of the greatest ever. 00:04:37.500 --> 00:04:40.920 It's an unparalleled masterclass. Yeah. Two years 00:04:40.920 --> 00:04:43.980 deep diving into not just the songs, but the 00:04:43.980 --> 00:04:46.259 mechanics behind the songs, how they worked. 00:04:46.339 --> 00:04:49.279 Right. And our sources, they confirm that this 00:04:49.279 --> 00:04:52.879 immersion, it just solidified his early influences. 00:04:53.220 --> 00:04:56.339 His music is just steeped in classic soul, the 00:04:56.339 --> 00:04:59.060 whole 50s and 60s top 40 sound. Which he loved. 00:04:59.300 --> 00:05:02.000 Which he holds in, quote, high regard. He said 00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:03.779 those records are just part of his DNA. They 00:05:03.779 --> 00:05:05.959 really won't go away. And because he leaned into 00:05:05.959 --> 00:05:08.959 that, you know, clean, classic, melodically rich 00:05:08.959 --> 00:05:12.779 structure, the comparison that popped up immediately 00:05:12.779 --> 00:05:15.079 and constantly wasn't even the Beatles, was it? 00:05:15.120 --> 00:05:17.180 Nope. It was Buddy Holly. Buddy Holly. Right 00:05:17.180 --> 00:05:19.459 away. All the time. Which, as you mentioned, 00:05:19.620 --> 00:05:22.519 leads to this wonderful bit of career irony later 00:05:22.519 --> 00:05:24.800 on that we'll definitely get to. Okay. But Crenshaw 00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:27.839 himself, he explained why Holly resonated so 00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:30.379 much with him. He said Holly's music had this 00:05:30.379 --> 00:05:34.300 sense of intimacy. Intimacy. Yeah, that quality 00:05:34.300 --> 00:05:36.920 that, in his words, really stands apart from 00:05:36.920 --> 00:05:38.860 a lot of 50s rock. What do you think he meant 00:05:38.860 --> 00:05:41.040 by intimacy there? Is it the production, the 00:05:41.040 --> 00:05:43.920 lyrics? I think it's about the directness, the 00:05:43.920 --> 00:05:47.360 clarity maybe. Holly's songs, they seem simple 00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:50.079 on the surface, right? But they feel really personal. 00:05:50.259 --> 00:05:52.600 Yeah. They weren't relying on like heavy reverb 00:05:52.600 --> 00:05:54.839 or big showy performances. Yeah. They were just 00:05:54.839 --> 00:05:57.500 simple truths. Delivered beautifully, almost 00:05:57.500 --> 00:05:59.920 conversationally. Okay. And when Marshall Crenshaw 00:05:59.920 --> 00:06:02.759 came along, his songs had that same immediate, 00:06:02.839 --> 00:06:06.019 warm, relatable thing. Like a great song being 00:06:06.019 --> 00:06:07.819 played right there in the room with you. No fuss, 00:06:07.959 --> 00:06:11.220 no unnecessary gloss. And that very quality, 00:06:11.279 --> 00:06:13.699 that pursuit of simple, intimate song craft, 00:06:13.879 --> 00:06:16.100 that became the thing that later put him at odds 00:06:16.100 --> 00:06:17.660 with the major labels, right? When they wanted 00:06:17.660 --> 00:06:21.629 a bigger sound. Exactly. the seeds of that future 00:06:21.629 --> 00:06:24.310 conflict were sown right there in his core influences. 00:06:24.470 --> 00:06:27.089 Okay, so that focus on intimate song craft, that's 00:06:27.089 --> 00:06:28.829 what he brings to New York when he's ready to 00:06:28.829 --> 00:06:31.449 launch his own recording career. Yep, forms that 00:06:31.449 --> 00:06:34.170 trio. His brother Robert on drums. Cristinano 00:06:34.170 --> 00:06:37.769 on bass. That lineup. That's the one. And the 00:06:37.769 --> 00:06:40.689 initial buzz, the momentum, it was actually pretty 00:06:40.689 --> 00:06:42.990 incredible. Started small, though, right? Independent 00:06:42.990 --> 00:06:44.910 label first. Yeah, really effective, though. 00:06:45.009 --> 00:06:47.170 Baby, you single in 81, something's going to 00:06:47.170 --> 00:06:50.490 happen on Alan Batrock's Shake Records. Just 00:06:50.490 --> 00:06:52.350 a great indie release. And that got noticed. 00:06:52.589 --> 00:06:55.310 Oh, yeah. Led directly to the Warner Bros. deal. 00:06:55.829 --> 00:06:58.110 And it's interesting, he later said Warner Bros. 00:06:58.689 --> 00:07:01.699 felt... you know, welcoming at first, had a good 00:07:01.699 --> 00:07:04.379 vibe. Which makes what happened later even more 00:07:04.379 --> 00:07:07.439 frustrating, doesn't it? Like a real missed opportunity. 00:07:07.660 --> 00:07:09.839 Totally. A tragic waste of potential, really. 00:07:10.060 --> 00:07:11.959 Then comes the big moment, the one that really 00:07:11.959 --> 00:07:14.600 put him on the map. The self -titled debut album 00:07:14.600 --> 00:07:17.480 in 1982. Marshall Crenshaw, yeah. Reached number 00:07:17.480 --> 00:07:21.160 50 on the U .S. charts, which for a new artist 00:07:21.160 --> 00:07:23.779 in that kind of crowded new wave landscape, that's 00:07:23.779 --> 00:07:26.970 solid. It's a really good start. And it was anchored 00:07:26.970 --> 00:07:29.810 by his big signature U .S. commercial moment, 00:07:29.910 --> 00:07:34.329 his only solo top 40 hit, Someday, Someway. Now, 00:07:34.329 --> 00:07:35.910 there's a bit of history with that song, too, 00:07:35.949 --> 00:07:37.230 isn't there? Someone else recorded it first. 00:07:37.370 --> 00:07:39.009 Yeah, a bit of context needed there. The Neo 00:07:39.009 --> 00:07:41.089 -Rockabilly guy, Robert Corden, he actually recorded 00:07:41.089 --> 00:07:44.230 it back in 1981. Oh, okay. And his version hit 00:07:44.230 --> 00:07:48.250 number 76. But Crenshaw's version, that's the 00:07:48.250 --> 00:07:50.790 definitive one. That's the one people know. Peaked 00:07:50.790 --> 00:07:53.579 at number 36 on the Billboard Top 40. His only 00:07:53.579 --> 00:07:56.319 solo single to crack that main chart. That's 00:07:56.319 --> 00:07:58.259 the high watermark for his solo singles on the 00:07:58.259 --> 00:08:00.500 Hot 100, yeah. But it did well on other charts, 00:08:00.540 --> 00:08:02.959 too. It did. Showed real strength on rock radio. 00:08:03.160 --> 00:08:05.360 Hit number 31 on the Cashbox chart, which was 00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:08.160 a big deal then. And number 25 on Billboard's 00:08:08.160 --> 00:08:09.839 mainstream rock chart. So it was getting played. 00:08:10.120 --> 00:08:12.540 Okay, so here's the thing, though. Peak commercial 00:08:12.540 --> 00:08:16.139 visibility with that single. But the album itself 00:08:16.139 --> 00:08:19.819 was a massive critical success, too. Huge. That's 00:08:19.819 --> 00:08:22.199 the dichotomy right there. Rolling Stone named 00:08:22.199 --> 00:08:25.339 it one of the top 100 albums of the entire 1980s. 00:08:25.339 --> 00:08:28.560 Think about that decade. Incredible praise. So 00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:30.600 he's got the hit single. He's got the Critical 00:08:30.600 --> 00:08:33.519 Darling album. Yeah. Everything seems lined up 00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:36.940 for stardom. You'd think so. And yet, this is 00:08:36.940 --> 00:08:39.460 where Crenshaw himself starts expressing some 00:08:39.460 --> 00:08:42.440 reservations. It's the first real sign of that 00:08:42.440 --> 00:08:44.899 tension we talked about. Even with all that success. 00:08:46.009 --> 00:08:48.190 He later said he really disliked the album's 00:08:48.190 --> 00:08:50.750 production. Really? Wow. He felt it was too clean, 00:08:50.769 --> 00:08:53.730 maybe too polished up for radio. Moving away 00:08:53.730 --> 00:08:57.990 from that sort of garage pop, direct intimacy 00:08:57.990 --> 00:09:01.029 that he valued so much. Wow. So even as it's 00:09:01.029 --> 00:09:03.629 succeeding, he's already kind of fighting with 00:09:03.629 --> 00:09:05.629 the way it's being presented. Exactly. Already 00:09:05.629 --> 00:09:07.710 at war with the finished product, despite the 00:09:07.710 --> 00:09:10.299 validation, despite the praise. Fascinating. 00:09:10.360 --> 00:09:12.019 But even with his production quibbles, I mean, 00:09:12.019 --> 00:09:14.200 that album is just packed with classics. Beyond 00:09:14.200 --> 00:09:17.320 Someday, Someway, you've got fan favorites like 00:09:17.320 --> 00:09:19.779 Cynical Girl. Oh, yeah. For listeners who maybe 00:09:19.779 --> 00:09:22.179 don't know that track, what makes Cynical Girl 00:09:22.179 --> 00:09:24.039 or, you know, Marianne, there she goes again. 00:09:24.240 --> 00:09:27.000 What makes them such perfect examples of that 00:09:27.000 --> 00:09:29.279 sound, that moment? Well, Cynical Girl is often 00:09:29.279 --> 00:09:32.039 held up as like the perfect power pop song, right? 00:09:32.120 --> 00:09:35.200 Because it has that driving energy of late 70s 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:38.519 new wave. marries it with the smarts, the harmonic 00:09:38.519 --> 00:09:42.419 sophistication of 60s pop. The guitar sound is 00:09:42.419 --> 00:09:45.200 crunchy, yeah, but the melody is just incredibly 00:09:45.200 --> 00:09:47.600 catchy and tight. Buddy Holly and a skinny tie, 00:09:47.779 --> 00:09:51.080 maybe. Huh. That's a great way to put it. Yeah. 00:09:51.200 --> 00:09:53.899 And that precision, that emotional directness, 00:09:53.980 --> 00:09:56.200 that's what made the debut such a classic. And 00:09:56.200 --> 00:09:58.399 you mentioned, there she goes again. That one 00:09:58.399 --> 00:10:00.320 actually did pretty well, too. Hit number 10 00:10:00.320 --> 00:10:03.019 on the bubbling under charts. Okay, explain bubbling 00:10:03.019 --> 00:10:05.039 under for folks. What does that actually signify 00:10:05.039 --> 00:10:07.460 on the charts? Right, good question. It's a cool 00:10:07.460 --> 00:10:09.740 piece of chart history. The bubbling under chart 00:10:09.740 --> 00:10:12.299 basically tracked songs that were just outside 00:10:12.299 --> 00:10:15.980 the main Hot 100. Like... positions 101 to maybe 00:10:15.980 --> 00:10:19.580 125 or 135, depending on the era. So Song's getting 00:10:19.580 --> 00:10:21.700 significant airplay, maybe decent sales, but 00:10:21.700 --> 00:10:24.039 just hadn't quite broken through into the big 00:10:24.039 --> 00:10:25.779 time. Exactly. They were knocking on the door. 00:10:25.840 --> 00:10:27.879 And what it means for Crenshaw is that he was 00:10:27.879 --> 00:10:30.179 consistently right there within striking distance 00:10:30.179 --> 00:10:32.460 of the Hot 100 on multiple occasions. But the 00:10:32.460 --> 00:10:34.419 label couldn't quite push him over the top again 00:10:34.419 --> 00:10:37.820 after some day, some way. Never quite got him 00:10:37.820 --> 00:10:41.549 back into that top 40. Which leads us, unfortunately, 00:10:41.690 --> 00:10:45.429 to 1983 and what feels like just a textbook case 00:10:45.429 --> 00:10:49.549 of, well, artist -label miscommunication. Maybe 00:10:49.549 --> 00:10:51.990 misinterpretation. The field day dilemma? Right. 00:10:52.360 --> 00:10:54.960 The difficult second album. The label saw the 00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:57.460 debut's success, saw the critical acclaim, and 00:10:57.460 --> 00:10:59.179 they wanted to capitalize. Of course they did. 00:10:59.320 --> 00:11:01.399 But they maybe misread why it was successful. 00:11:01.720 --> 00:11:03.700 I think so. They didn't seem to want more intimate 00:11:03.700 --> 00:11:06.279 pop perfection. They seemed to want, like, arena 00:11:06.279 --> 00:11:09.419 -ready new wave. Something bigger, shinier. So 00:11:09.419 --> 00:11:11.519 they bring in a big -name producer known for 00:11:11.519 --> 00:11:14.139 a specific sound. Steve Lillywhite, yeah. I mean, 00:11:14.139 --> 00:11:16.759 Lillywhite was huge then. Famous for that massive, 00:11:16.860 --> 00:11:20.639 booming, reverb -heavy, gated drum sound. I think 00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:23.549 U2, Peter Gator. Gabriel XTC. Okay, so a very 00:11:23.549 --> 00:11:25.970 distinct, very 80s sound. Very distinct. The 00:11:25.970 --> 00:11:28.210 goal was clearly to give Crenshaw a quote -unquote 00:11:28.210 --> 00:11:30.830 bigger production. Make him sound, well, bigger. 00:11:31.029 --> 00:11:33.389 But the reaction was immediate division, wasn't 00:11:33.389 --> 00:11:35.269 it? The critics, the fans who loved that first 00:11:35.269 --> 00:11:37.990 album's charm. They were baffled. Yeah. Bewildered 00:11:37.990 --> 00:11:40.509 by this dense, often echoing sound on field day. 00:11:40.730 --> 00:11:44.690 It just felt off for him. A stylistic mismatch. 00:11:44.850 --> 00:11:48.629 Totally. And the commercial results? Pretty sobering. 00:11:48.690 --> 00:11:51.029 The album actually charted lower than the debut. 00:11:51.549 --> 00:11:53.830 only peaked at number 52. And the lead single, 00:11:54.110 --> 00:11:56.990 Whenever You're On My Mind, which is a fantastic 00:11:56.990 --> 00:11:59.529 song. Crenshaw clearly loved it, pushed for it. 00:11:59.570 --> 00:12:01.870 Yeah, great track. But commercially, dead on 00:12:01.870 --> 00:12:04.470 arrival on the Hot 100, it only managed number 00:12:04.470 --> 00:12:06.610 three on the bubbling under chart. Couldn't even 00:12:06.610 --> 00:12:08.529 crack the main chart. What's really interesting 00:12:08.529 --> 00:12:10.789 about this whole field day episode, though, is 00:12:10.789 --> 00:12:13.789 the debate that came after. Crenshaw, despite 00:12:13.789 --> 00:12:16.549 the commercial disappointment, He actually defended 00:12:16.549 --> 00:12:18.690 the album's sound later on, didn't he? He did, 00:12:18.809 --> 00:12:20.950 to an extent. He defended the initial Lily White 00:12:20.950 --> 00:12:23.669 production, the main album's sound. But he drew 00:12:23.669 --> 00:12:25.789 a really sharp line when it came to the label 00:12:25.789 --> 00:12:28.429 messing with it afterwards. Ah, okay. What happened 00:12:28.429 --> 00:12:31.649 there? He saved his real fire for this UK -released 00:12:31.649 --> 00:12:36.429 EP called US Remix. US Remix? That sounds ominous. 00:12:36.450 --> 00:12:38.860 Right. He openly called the mixes on it. watered 00:12:38.860 --> 00:12:41.220 down alternate mixes, specifically mentioning 00:12:41.220 --> 00:12:44.000 tracks like Our Town and For Her Love. So he 00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:46.299 saw it as compromising the songs. Absolutely. 00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:48.200 It shows this internal battle, right? Right. 00:12:49.159 --> 00:12:50.559 He might have been willing to take the artistic 00:12:50.559 --> 00:12:53.980 risk with Lily White's big sound, but he absolutely 00:12:53.980 --> 00:12:57.519 resisted any further meddling that he felt stripped 00:12:57.519 --> 00:12:59.559 away the core strength of his songwriting just 00:12:59.559 --> 00:13:02.580 to chase some fleeting radio trend. He was fighting 00:13:02.580 --> 00:13:04.440 for the sonic integrity right up to the end of 00:13:04.440 --> 00:13:06.419 that album cycle. And the commercial decline 00:13:06.419 --> 00:13:08.840 after Field Day, it was pretty quick, wasn't 00:13:08.840 --> 00:13:11.279 it? It really seemed to signal that the relationship 00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:14.220 with Warner Bros. was just... deteriorating fast. 00:13:14.620 --> 00:13:16.820 Oh, yeah. He went from being this critical darling, 00:13:16.980 --> 00:13:20.059 the next big thing in 82, to basically commercial 00:13:20.059 --> 00:13:23.500 liability by 84 in their eyes. The momentum stalled. 00:13:23.679 --> 00:13:26.200 That pressure, that tension, it forced another 00:13:26.200 --> 00:13:29.120 shift for his third album, right? 1985's Downtown. 00:13:29.440 --> 00:13:31.639 Exactly. A stylistic pivot. He moved away from 00:13:31.639 --> 00:13:34.039 that glossy field day sound, went for something 00:13:34.039 --> 00:13:36.639 much rootsier, more organic. Bringing in different 00:13:36.639 --> 00:13:39.200 producers again. Yeah. Mostly T -Bone Burnett, 00:13:39.299 --> 00:13:41.259 who was already known for his work in Americana, 00:13:41.399 --> 00:13:44.269 Roots Rock. Kind of the anti -Lily White in a 00:13:44.269 --> 00:13:46.710 way. Though Mitch Easter, famous for producing 00:13:46.710 --> 00:13:49.809 early R .E .M., that whole jangle pop sound he 00:13:49.809 --> 00:13:52.870 produced one track, blues is king. So this feels 00:13:52.870 --> 00:13:54.629 like a deliberate attempt to get back to that 00:13:54.629 --> 00:13:57.470 more raw, intimate sound he loved. It seems like 00:13:57.470 --> 00:14:00.450 it, artistically. Yeah. But commercially, it 00:14:00.450 --> 00:14:02.210 felt like the label had kind of already checked 00:14:02.210 --> 00:14:05.309 out. Downtown stalled way down at number 110 00:14:05.309 --> 00:14:08.649 on the charts. Ouch. Yeah. the momentum is just 00:14:08.649 --> 00:14:11.289 gone the narrative around him had shifted from 00:14:11.289 --> 00:14:14.629 you know pop genius on the rise to more like 00:14:14.629 --> 00:14:17.830 respected cult artist which brings us to the 00:14:17.830 --> 00:14:20.629 uh the final chapter of that warner bros relationship 00:14:20.629 --> 00:14:24.110 1989's good evening and the sources point to 00:14:24.110 --> 00:14:25.970 something really telling about his mindset then 00:14:25.970 --> 00:14:28.669 his creative exhaustion maybe his lack of faith 00:14:28.669 --> 00:14:30.549 in the whole system it's a very revealing moment 00:14:30.549 --> 00:14:33.269 the album included quite a few cover songs which 00:14:33.269 --> 00:14:35.690 isn't necessarily weird but his reason his reason 00:14:35.690 --> 00:14:38.710 was key he attributed directly quite openly to 00:14:38.710 --> 00:14:41.009 his, quote, lack of faith in the album and his 00:14:41.009 --> 00:14:43.750 label. It really speaks volumes. It's like an 00:14:43.750 --> 00:14:45.370 artist saying, look, if you're not going to really 00:14:45.370 --> 00:14:47.850 get behind my original stuff, I'll just record 00:14:47.850 --> 00:14:50.669 some songs I love, fulfill the contract, and 00:14:50.669 --> 00:14:53.230 we can call it a day. Feels almost like self 00:14:53.230 --> 00:14:56.450 -sabotage, but maybe also just strategic exhaustion, 00:14:56.909 --> 00:14:59.929 a way out. Could be both. A strategic retreat, 00:15:00.090 --> 00:15:03.139 perhaps. But here's the kicker. Even in that 00:15:03.139 --> 00:15:05.399 retreat, even when he's seemingly phoning it 00:15:05.399 --> 00:15:08.440 in with covers, his incredible ear for a great 00:15:08.440 --> 00:15:12.159 song still shines through. How so? Good Evening 00:15:12.159 --> 00:15:14.639 featured the very first released version anywhere 00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:17.659 of a song called Some Hearts, written by Diane 00:15:17.659 --> 00:15:20.299 Warren. Diane Warren, the legendary songwriter. 00:15:20.460 --> 00:15:22.159 The one and only. And of course, we know that 00:15:22.159 --> 00:15:24.980 song, Some Hearts, would later become this massive, 00:15:25.059 --> 00:15:28.460 career -defining country pop hit for Carrie Underwood 00:15:28.460 --> 00:15:31.059 years down the line. No way. He recorded it first? 00:15:31.340 --> 00:15:33.659 He did. It just underscored the point, right? 00:15:33.919 --> 00:15:36.279 Even when Marshall Crenshaw was feeling creatively 00:15:36.279 --> 00:15:38.639 burnt out, totally disillusioned with the major 00:15:38.639 --> 00:15:42.320 label machine, ready to walk away, his fundamental 00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:44.840 instincts for spotting a killer pop song were 00:15:44.840 --> 00:15:47.539 still absolutely impeccable. He knew a great 00:15:47.539 --> 00:15:49.620 tune when he heard one. He was just ready to 00:15:49.620 --> 00:15:51.620 move on from that system. Okay, so the major 00:15:51.620 --> 00:15:55.059 label system, Warner Bros., anyway, had kind 00:15:55.059 --> 00:15:57.299 of failed him. Or they'd failed each other, perhaps. 00:15:57.299 --> 00:15:59.350 Yeah, the relationship was done. But this is 00:15:59.350 --> 00:16:01.090 where the story takes a really interesting turn, 00:16:01.190 --> 00:16:03.429 doesn't it? Instead of just fading away, which 00:16:03.429 --> 00:16:05.049 happens to a lot of artists in that situation, 00:16:05.490 --> 00:16:08.570 Crenshaw diversifies. He starts leveraging his 00:16:08.570 --> 00:16:11.070 talent, his whole aesthetic across different 00:16:11.070 --> 00:16:14.309 media. And this is where he finds, ironically, 00:16:14.529 --> 00:16:16.870 some of his biggest, most long -lasting commercial 00:16:16.870 --> 00:16:19.169 success. Just not through his own solo albums. 00:16:19.330 --> 00:16:21.870 Exactly. His foray into film. That's a perfect 00:16:21.870 --> 00:16:25.620 example of this strategic diversification. really 00:16:25.620 --> 00:16:28.440 major moment there was just the ultimate career 00:16:28.440 --> 00:16:31.960 irony. Which was? 1987. He gets cast to formally 00:16:31.960 --> 00:16:34.379 portray Buddy Holly in the Richie Valens biopic, 00:16:34.600 --> 00:16:37.539 La Bamba. He literally becomes the guy everyone 00:16:37.539 --> 00:16:40.019 compared him to from day one. Right. He fulfilled 00:16:40.019 --> 00:16:42.799 the prophecy. Yeah. And he wasn't just like a 00:16:42.799 --> 00:16:45.159 lookalike standing in the background. No. No. 00:16:45.220 --> 00:16:48.919 He performed. He did his own really strong cover 00:16:48.919 --> 00:16:51.980 of Holly's crying, waiting, hoping right there 00:16:51.980 --> 00:16:55.879 on screen. Wow. And that performance, his version, 00:16:56.019 --> 00:16:58.279 was included on the official soundtrack album. 00:16:58.419 --> 00:17:00.679 And the La Bamba soundtrack was huge, wasn't 00:17:00.679 --> 00:17:02.960 it? Massive. It went to number one on the Billboard 00:17:02.960 --> 00:17:06.660 album charts. Certified double platinum. So wait, 00:17:07.059 --> 00:17:09.680 Marshall Crenshaw's biggest chart success, Platinum 00:17:09.680 --> 00:17:12.559 Records, came from playing Buddy Holly in a movie 00:17:12.559 --> 00:17:14.940 about Richie Valens. Pretty much. Isn't that 00:17:14.940 --> 00:17:17.099 incredible? His largest commercial validation 00:17:17.099 --> 00:17:20.039 up to that point came from embodying his greatest, 00:17:20.200 --> 00:17:23.390 most persistent comparison. It's just perfect 00:17:23.390 --> 00:17:25.349 circularity. And that wasn't even his first movie 00:17:25.349 --> 00:17:27.369 appearance, was it? He dipped his toe in before 00:17:27.369 --> 00:17:30.930 that. Correct. The year before, 1986, he and 00:17:30.930 --> 00:17:33.670 his whole band actually appeared in Francis Ford 00:17:33.670 --> 00:17:36.289 Coppola's film Peggy Sue Got Married. Oh, yeah. 00:17:36.750 --> 00:17:38.970 Kathleen Turner, Nicolas Cage. That's the one. 00:17:39.029 --> 00:17:40.849 They played the band at the high school reunion 00:17:40.849 --> 00:17:43.660 scene. Right. I remember that now. And he also 00:17:43.660 --> 00:17:46.339 contributed a song to that soundtrack, a cover 00:17:46.339 --> 00:17:49.099 of You Belong to Me. So yeah, he pretty quickly 00:17:49.099 --> 00:17:51.599 went from being this sort of cult musician figure 00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:54.980 to suddenly having this recognizable presence 00:17:54.980 --> 00:17:58.339 in these high -profile 80s movies. Quite a pivot. 00:17:58.500 --> 00:18:01.200 So while he's busy becoming this unexpected movie 00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:05.039 presence, one of his oldest songs suddenly becomes 00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:08.059 this monster international hit. Without him even 00:18:08.059 --> 00:18:10.539 singing it. Right. proving the sheer strength 00:18:10.539 --> 00:18:12.619 of his songwriting completely separate from his 00:18:12.619 --> 00:18:15.420 own performance. This is that amazing story of 00:18:15.420 --> 00:18:18.240 the accidental UK hit. It's pure chance, almost. 00:18:18.500 --> 00:18:20.299 Yeah. He wrote this song, You're My Favorite 00:18:20.299 --> 00:18:23.319 Waste of Time, way back in 1979. Before his first 00:18:23.319 --> 00:18:25.259 album, even. Yeah, while he was still doing Beatlemania, 00:18:25.480 --> 00:18:27.720 he apparently wrote it backstage at the Stanley 00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:29.839 Theatre in Pittsburgh during the tour. Okay. 00:18:29.960 --> 00:18:32.240 Just sits on it for years. Then, seven years 00:18:32.240 --> 00:18:36.140 later, 1986, this Scottish musician, Owen Paul. 00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:39.819 records it and owen paul's version style wise 00:18:39.819 --> 00:18:41.579 it was pretty different from crenshaw's usual 00:18:41.579 --> 00:18:44.599 vibe wasn't it more 80s synth pop oh yeah much 00:18:44.599 --> 00:18:47.200 more polished definitely tapped into that slick 00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:51.660 mid -80s production sound synths echoey drums 00:18:51.660 --> 00:18:54.920 the whole nine yards and crucially it was huge 00:18:54.920 --> 00:18:57.420 at least in the uk it went all the way to number 00:18:57.420 --> 00:19:00.380 three on the uk singles chart number three yeah 00:19:00.779 --> 00:19:02.819 got awarded a silver disc over there became a 00:19:02.819 --> 00:19:04.980 big international hit in several countries wow 00:19:04.980 --> 00:19:07.460 so the song itself was just strong enough to 00:19:07.460 --> 00:19:10.400 completely transcend genre across the atlantic 00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:13.559 but it needed someone else's interpretation in 00:19:13.559 --> 00:19:16.980 that specific 80s style to really blow up commercially 00:19:17.660 --> 00:19:20.160 Seems that way. And that pattern, him writing 00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:22.519 or co -writing these smash hits for other people, 00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:24.759 that continued right into the 90s. Right, the 00:19:24.759 --> 00:19:27.380 90s. The radio landscape then was totally different. 00:19:27.680 --> 00:19:30.119 Dominated by grunge, alternative rock. Yeah, 00:19:30.119 --> 00:19:32.099 flannel shirts and angst. But there was that 00:19:32.099 --> 00:19:34.880 specific subset, right? The more melodic alternative 00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:37.960 bands, the sort of jangle pop descendants. And 00:19:37.960 --> 00:19:40.579 they owed a huge debt to Crenshaw's sound. Absolutely. 00:19:40.660 --> 00:19:42.660 His influence was baked into a lot of that stuff. 00:19:42.740 --> 00:19:45.099 And he actually formalized that connection, that 00:19:45.099 --> 00:19:48.089 debt. In 1995. He did. With the Gin Blossoms 00:19:48.089 --> 00:19:50.809 collaboration. Right. Tell us about that. He 00:19:50.809 --> 00:19:53.809 co -wrote the song Till I Hear It From You with 00:19:53.809 --> 00:19:56.769 two of the Gin Blossoms members, Jesse Valenzuela 00:19:56.769 --> 00:19:59.029 and Robin Wilson. And that song was everywhere 00:19:59.029 --> 00:20:01.029 for a while. It was in a movie, wasn't it? Yep. 00:20:01.269 --> 00:20:03.430 Featured very prominently in the movie Empire 00:20:03.430 --> 00:20:05.769 Records. Plays right over the closing credits. 00:20:06.009 --> 00:20:08.750 Ah, Empire Records. The definition of a cult 00:20:08.750 --> 00:20:11.609 classic now. Totally. And the song itself was 00:20:11.609 --> 00:20:14.470 a massive single. Peaked at number nine on the 00:20:14.470 --> 00:20:17.730 U .S. Hot 100. Huge radio hit. So the Empire 00:20:17.730 --> 00:20:21.089 Records soundtrack sells millions. Crenshaw gets 00:20:21.089 --> 00:20:23.789 a gold record for his contribution as a songwriter. 00:20:24.759 --> 00:20:27.279 But what's really telling there, beyond the success, 00:20:27.660 --> 00:20:30.200 is the artistic respect that was clearly involved 00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:33.240 in that collaboration. Oh, definitely. The Jim 00:20:33.240 --> 00:20:35.319 Blossoms themselves, especially the singer Robin 00:20:35.319 --> 00:20:37.759 Wilson, they were very open about Crenshaw's 00:20:37.759 --> 00:20:40.440 influence. Wilson specifically said that when 00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:42.819 they were working on it, he dug up one of Marshall's 00:20:42.819 --> 00:20:45.440 old records for inspiration. No kidding. Yeah, 00:20:45.460 --> 00:20:47.460 he said something like, I thought this is how 00:20:47.460 --> 00:20:49.819 I sing, this is what I'm shooting for. Basically 00:20:49.819 --> 00:20:51.759 saying Crenshaw was the model, the blueprint 00:20:51.759 --> 00:20:55.259 for that kind of melodic rock. vocal. That's 00:20:55.259 --> 00:20:58.380 incredible. So Crenshaw himself didn't have that 00:20:58.380 --> 00:21:01.680 massive 90s radio success as a solo artist, but 00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:05.200 he literally helped craft one of the biggest 00:21:05.200 --> 00:21:08.339 melodic rock hits of that era for a band that 00:21:08.339 --> 00:21:11.079 basically said, we learned how to do this from 00:21:11.079 --> 00:21:13.319 you. That's the definition of the architect working 00:21:13.319 --> 00:21:15.519 behind the scenes, isn't it? Shaping the sound 00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:18.059 even without being the face of it. And his creative 00:21:18.059 --> 00:21:21.240 focus during this whole decade, the late 80s 00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:23.640 into the mid 90s, it was just incredibly broad. 00:21:23.740 --> 00:21:25.890 It wasn't just the movies and the co -writing. 00:21:26.049 --> 00:21:29.289 He was also curating music history, commenting 00:21:29.289 --> 00:21:31.190 on it. Yeah, he was really asserting himself 00:21:31.190 --> 00:21:34.269 as more than just a performer, as a deep student 00:21:34.269 --> 00:21:37.029 of music, someone with real authority on pop 00:21:37.029 --> 00:21:39.190 culture history. Like compiling that country 00:21:39.190 --> 00:21:41.430 music collection. Exactly. Hillbilly Music, Thank 00:21:41.430 --> 00:21:44.130 God, Volume 1, that came out in 89. Just a fantastic 00:21:44.130 --> 00:21:46.470 collection showing his deep knowledge and love 00:21:46.470 --> 00:21:48.430 for roots music. And then the book about rock 00:21:48.430 --> 00:21:51.700 and roll and movies. Right. Hollywood Rock. A 00:21:51.700 --> 00:21:54.099 guide to rock and roll in the movies. He edited 00:21:54.099 --> 00:21:57.000 that and contributed to it in 1994. These aren't 00:21:57.000 --> 00:21:59.400 just side gigs. They show a real intellectual 00:21:59.400 --> 00:22:01.940 engagement with the music and culture he loves. 00:22:02.079 --> 00:22:05.099 And we absolutely cannot forget the most, like... 00:22:05.650 --> 00:22:08.930 perfectly low -key, perfectly Crenshaw cameo 00:22:08.930 --> 00:22:11.289 of the entire decade. Huh. I know where you're 00:22:11.289 --> 00:22:14.589 going with this. 1993. The legendary, beloved 00:22:14.589 --> 00:22:17.309 Nickelodeon show The Adventures of Pete and Pete. 00:22:17.430 --> 00:22:19.730 As the guitar -playing meter reader. Jasper. 00:22:19.950 --> 00:22:24.029 Yes. It was just perfect. It completely encapsulated 00:22:24.029 --> 00:22:26.910 his status at that point, right? This unexpected, 00:22:27.150 --> 00:22:29.990 incredibly talented figure just popping up in 00:22:29.990 --> 00:22:32.650 this beloved, slightly weird, perfectly niche 00:22:32.650 --> 00:22:35.269 context. That really sums up the 90s for him 00:22:35.269 --> 00:22:37.470 in a lot of ways. Finding success, finding creative 00:22:37.470 --> 00:22:39.470 freedom, but doing it very much on his own terms, 00:22:39.490 --> 00:22:41.809 outside the usual pressures. And his own recording 00:22:41.809 --> 00:22:44.170 career found new life in this period, too, right? 00:22:44.230 --> 00:22:46.769 After the Warner Bros. stress was over. Yeah, 00:22:46.809 --> 00:22:49.049 he moved over to MCA Records for his next album, 00:22:49.230 --> 00:22:51.970 Life's Too Short, which came out in 1991. And 00:22:51.970 --> 00:22:53.670 that album actually gave him a little bit of 00:22:53.670 --> 00:22:56.349 a chart victory, but in a different arena. Small 00:22:56.349 --> 00:22:58.349 one, yeah. The track Better Back Off actually 00:22:58.349 --> 00:23:00.910 reached number 17 on Billboard's Alternative 00:23:00.910 --> 00:23:03.369 Songs chart. Okay, so alt -rock radio was playing 00:23:03.369 --> 00:23:05.809 him. For a moment, yeah. It showed he could still 00:23:05.809 --> 00:23:08.269 connect, still had that versatility. But the 00:23:08.269 --> 00:23:10.349 real freedom, I think, came later in the decade 00:23:10.349 --> 00:23:12.490 when he went fully independent. Right, with Razor 00:23:12.490 --> 00:23:14.970 and Tie records? Exactly. He put out Miracle 00:23:14.970 --> 00:23:17.710 of Science in 1996 on Razor and Tie. And that 00:23:17.710 --> 00:23:19.670 album was largely self -produced, mostly self 00:23:19.670 --> 00:23:22.230 -performed, too. Just him doing his thing. And 00:23:22.230 --> 00:23:24.549 that followed his live album, right? Live, My 00:23:24.549 --> 00:23:28.009 Truck Is My Home. Yep, 1994. And that title, 00:23:28.089 --> 00:23:30.829 My Truck Is My Home, it just humorously, perfectly 00:23:30.829 --> 00:23:33.450 captures that independent, working musician, 00:23:33.630 --> 00:23:36.569 touring life that he fully embraced after the 00:23:36.569 --> 00:23:39.809 major label years. Hashtag Shaq Fortify, the 00:23:39.809 --> 00:23:43.079 later career in defining the legacy. 1997 present. 00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:45.440 So with that intense industry pressure kind of 00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:47.660 lifted, Marshall Crenshaw really settles into 00:23:47.660 --> 00:23:49.900 this more stable, sustainable rhythm, doesn't 00:23:49.900 --> 00:23:53.319 he? Recording, touring. Demonstrating that kind 00:23:53.319 --> 00:23:55.599 of longevity that you only really see from artists 00:23:55.599 --> 00:23:58.440 whose work is built on, well, timeless quality, 00:23:58.660 --> 00:24:01.539 not just chasing trends. Absolutely. He kept 00:24:01.539 --> 00:24:03.980 up a steady output of new music, just on his 00:24:03.980 --> 00:24:06.859 own terms, on his own schedule. Three more solid 00:24:06.859 --> 00:24:11.119 studio albums followed. Hashtag 447 in 99. What's 00:24:11.119 --> 00:24:14.799 in the Bag in 2003. And then Jagged Land in 2009. 00:24:15.059 --> 00:24:18.049 So still actively recording. Well into the 2000s. 00:24:18.069 --> 00:24:20.930 Oh, yeah. And then in 2015, he kind of summarized 00:24:20.930 --> 00:24:23.690 his more recent independent activity by gathering 00:24:23.690 --> 00:24:26.089 up these EPs he'd been releasing digitally between 00:24:26.089 --> 00:24:28.670 2013 and 2015. Right. He was doing subscription 00:24:28.670 --> 00:24:31.329 EPs for a while. Exactly. He compiled those into 00:24:31.329 --> 00:24:33.910 a physical release called Hashtag 392, the EP 00:24:33.910 --> 00:24:36.289 collection. It's really the work of an artist 00:24:36.289 --> 00:24:38.549 who's just focused on putting out new material 00:24:38.549 --> 00:24:41.250 when he feels like it, completely bypassing that 00:24:41.250 --> 00:24:43.970 old school album cycle grind. And his reputation, 00:24:44.049 --> 00:24:46.400 just as this foundational figure in rock, rock 00:24:46.400 --> 00:24:48.539 music, especially coming out of Detroit, earned 00:24:48.539 --> 00:24:50.480 him some serious respect from his peers, right? 00:24:50.519 --> 00:24:52.720 Even unexpected ones. Oh, definitely. There's 00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:55.059 a great example in 2004. He actually played guitar 00:24:55.059 --> 00:24:57.339 as a special guest with the reunited members 00:24:57.339 --> 00:25:00.920 of the MC5. Wow. The MC5. I mean, their raw proto 00:25:00.920 --> 00:25:03.160 -punk sound feels philosophically miles away 00:25:03.160 --> 00:25:05.680 from Crenshaw's polished pop, doesn't it? Totally 00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:08.200 different ends of the Detroit spectrum. But that 00:25:08.200 --> 00:25:11.059 invitation, him playing with them, it signifies 00:25:11.059 --> 00:25:13.480 that he's recognized by those guys not just as, 00:25:13.539 --> 00:25:17.059 you know, the power pop guy, but as a genuinely 00:25:17.059 --> 00:25:21.059 talented, respected, authentic Detroit musician. 00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:24.500 Full stop. That's huge respect. And just when 00:25:24.500 --> 00:25:26.500 you thought maybe his Hollywood adventures were 00:25:26.500 --> 00:25:29.720 done, he pops up again and gets his biggest critical 00:25:29.720 --> 00:25:32.660 nod from the film world. And once again. It was 00:25:32.660 --> 00:25:34.880 for writing a song for someone else to sing. 00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:36.799 You got it. The pattern continues. This time 00:25:36.799 --> 00:25:40.069 it was the 2007 Golden Globe nomination. For 00:25:40.069 --> 00:25:42.970 the movie Walk Hard, the Dewey Cox story. Yes. 00:25:43.410 --> 00:25:46.029 That brilliant musical parody, the spoof of all 00:25:46.029 --> 00:25:49.390 those serious rock biopics starring John C. Reilly 00:25:49.390 --> 00:25:52.130 as Dewey Cox. Such a funny movie. And Crenshaw 00:25:52.130 --> 00:25:54.190 wrote the main theme, the title track. And the 00:25:54.190 --> 00:25:55.890 title track, yeah, which Reilly sang in the film. 00:25:56.109 --> 00:25:59.150 And why was Crenshaw the absolute perfect choice 00:25:59.150 --> 00:26:01.230 to write a song for a musical parody like that? 00:26:01.329 --> 00:26:03.529 Because he knows the source material inside out. 00:26:03.569 --> 00:26:05.789 He can perfectly replicate those classic sounds. 00:26:06.170 --> 00:26:09.519 Exactly. The whole joke, the success of that 00:26:09.519 --> 00:26:12.599 song, hinges on it sounding completely, utterly 00:26:12.599 --> 00:26:15.660 authentic to the era it's spoofing. Like a pitch 00:26:15.660 --> 00:26:18.940 -perfect 60s country pop pastiche. And Crenshaw 00:26:18.940 --> 00:26:22.359 could just nail that. Effortlessly. Because he'd 00:26:22.359 --> 00:26:25.240 spend his entire life studying, absorbing, and 00:26:25.240 --> 00:26:29.039 embodying that exact 50s and 60s pop sound. The 00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:31.690 song wasn't just funny. It was musically spot 00:26:31.690 --> 00:26:34.009 on. And it got nominated for a Golden Globe for 00:26:34.009 --> 00:26:36.250 Best Original Song. And a Grammy nomination, 00:26:36.309 --> 00:26:39.609 too. Just another hilarious, unexpected, but 00:26:39.609 --> 00:26:42.630 somehow totally fitting chapter in a career that's 00:26:42.630 --> 00:26:44.769 just full of these kinds of ironies. Beyond the 00:26:44.769 --> 00:26:46.809 performing and the writing, he also spent a good 00:26:46.809 --> 00:26:49.470 chunk of time sharing that deep musical knowledge 00:26:49.470 --> 00:26:52.299 base directly with an audience, didn't he? Through 00:26:52.299 --> 00:26:55.940 radio. He did. From 2011 to 2017, he hosted a 00:26:55.940 --> 00:26:58.920 show called The Bottomless Pit on WFUV, the great 00:26:58.920 --> 00:27:01.180 public radio station in New York. The Bottomless 00:27:01.180 --> 00:27:04.059 Pit. Great name. Isn't it? And the title says 00:27:04.059 --> 00:27:06.319 it all. He drew heavily from what he called his 00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:08.640 vast collection of recorded music, just playing 00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:11.220 deep cuts, obscurities, personal favorites. Sharing 00:27:11.220 --> 00:27:13.019 that musical DNA we talked about earlier, the 00:27:13.019 --> 00:27:15.680 stuff that influenced him. Precisely. sharing 00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:19.599 the very 50s and 60s pop soul rockabilly, records 00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:22.940 the foundations of his own sound directly with 00:27:22.940 --> 00:27:25.720 listeners. It's a really key part of his legacy, 00:27:25.799 --> 00:27:27.980 I think, as a curator, an educator, not just 00:27:27.980 --> 00:27:30.200 a creator. Do you say why he stopped doing it? 00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:33.500 He put the show on hiatus in 2017, apparently 00:27:33.500 --> 00:27:36.119 to focus his energy on producing a documentary 00:27:36.119 --> 00:27:39.119 film about the... legendary and maybe slightly 00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:42.059 overlooked record producer Tom Wilson. Tom Wilson 00:27:42.059 --> 00:27:46.200 produced early Dylan, Simon Garfunkel, Zappa, 00:27:46.400 --> 00:27:49.440 Velvet Underground. Huge figure. Exactly. So 00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:51.500 another project showing his dedication to music 00:27:51.500 --> 00:27:53.700 history. And his own performance career, how 00:27:53.700 --> 00:27:55.619 has that looked in recent years? He found a sustainable 00:27:55.619 --> 00:27:57.460 way to keep doing it. Yeah, he seems to have 00:27:57.460 --> 00:27:59.339 found a model that works for him, one that respects 00:27:59.339 --> 00:28:02.140 his desire for creative control but also family 00:28:02.140 --> 00:28:04.059 life. He calls his touring schedule wonderfully 00:28:04.059 --> 00:28:07.599 the NPR singer -songwriter circle. Yeah, that's 00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:10.200 perfect. Right, he performs maybe 40 to 50 concerts 00:28:10.200 --> 00:28:12.799 a year, mostly keeping it within driving distance 00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:15.160 of his family home. No more endless bus tours. 00:28:15.460 --> 00:28:17.619 Which implies a certain kind of audience, right? 00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:22.029 Devoted, maybe a bit older, sophisticated. people 00:28:22.029 --> 00:28:24.190 who prioritize the quality of the music and the 00:28:24.190 --> 00:28:28.170 history over like a blockbuster spectacle. Totally. 00:28:28.250 --> 00:28:30.970 It's a career built on mutual respect between 00:28:30.970 --> 00:28:34.029 artist and audience, not on that relentless commercial 00:28:34.029 --> 00:28:36.980 grind he escaped from. And that sense of community, 00:28:37.140 --> 00:28:39.779 that respect within the scene, it led to another 00:28:39.779 --> 00:28:42.039 really interesting touring role for him recently. 00:28:42.039 --> 00:28:44.240 Kind of brought things full circle within that 00:28:44.240 --> 00:28:48.079 whole power pop world. It really did. Since 2017, 00:28:48.420 --> 00:28:50.359 sadly following the death of their lead singer 00:28:50.359 --> 00:28:53.279 Pat Tenizio. Oh, right. The Smithereens. Exactly. 00:28:53.940 --> 00:28:56.660 Crenshaw has been performing as a guest vocalist 00:28:56.660 --> 00:28:59.279 for the Smithereens. He alternates touring duties 00:28:59.279 --> 00:29:01.519 with Robin Wilson. Robin Wilson from the Gin 00:29:01.519 --> 00:29:04.240 Blossoms. The very same. the guy who cited Crenshaw 00:29:04.240 --> 00:29:06.599 as his vocal inspiration back in the 90s. Wow, 00:29:06.779 --> 00:29:09.920 that's amazing. Isn't it? So now Crenshaw is 00:29:09.920 --> 00:29:12.140 literally part of the support structure, keeping 00:29:12.140 --> 00:29:14.279 the legacy of the Smithereens going, another 00:29:14.279 --> 00:29:17.279 key power pop band, performing alongside the 00:29:17.279 --> 00:29:19.140 musician who looked up to him decades earlier. 00:29:19.339 --> 00:29:22.119 Full circle. That dedication to the craft, the 00:29:22.119 --> 00:29:25.349 respect he commands. It led to official recognition 00:29:25.349 --> 00:29:27.589 back home, too, didn't it? Yeah, rightly so. 00:29:27.890 --> 00:29:30.390 He was voted into the Michigan Rock and Roll 00:29:30.390 --> 00:29:33.450 Legends Hall of Fame in 2014. And critically, 00:29:33.690 --> 00:29:36.569 the praise is just unanimous. He's seen as an 00:29:36.569 --> 00:29:39.289 essential musician of the new wave era, the power 00:29:39.289 --> 00:29:41.730 pop genre. Which brings us right back around 00:29:41.730 --> 00:29:44.390 to the central contradiction, the thing we keep 00:29:44.390 --> 00:29:47.329 bumping up against in this whole deep dive, the 00:29:47.329 --> 00:29:50.809 power pop tension. Critics everywhere placed 00:29:50.809 --> 00:29:53.150 him right at the heart of that genre. You know, 00:29:53.170 --> 00:29:56.170 the sound defined by crunchy guitars, big melodic 00:29:56.170 --> 00:29:58.690 hooks, reverence for the 60s. It sounds like 00:29:58.690 --> 00:30:00.789 him. It absolutely describes a lot of his most 00:30:00.789 --> 00:30:03.450 famous work, especially early on. Yet Crenshaw 00:30:03.450 --> 00:30:06.250 himself actively disliked being associated with 00:30:06.250 --> 00:30:08.869 that label, Power Pop. He really did. Pushed 00:30:08.869 --> 00:30:11.369 back against it consistently. Why? Why reject 00:30:11.369 --> 00:30:13.230 the label that seems to fit so well, at least 00:30:13.230 --> 00:30:15.049 for part of his career? Well, he stated pretty 00:30:15.049 --> 00:30:17.029 explicitly that he felt the term Power Pop had 00:30:17.029 --> 00:30:20.609 a, quote, dodgy connotation. Dodgy. Meaning what, 00:30:20.650 --> 00:30:24.819 do you think? Trivial. I suspect he felt it suggested 00:30:24.819 --> 00:30:28.160 something maybe a bit lightweight or maybe derivative, 00:30:28.259 --> 00:30:31.319 like just a pastiche of older styles rather than 00:30:31.319 --> 00:30:35.119 genuine timeless songcraft. Oh, OK. His loyalty, 00:30:35.240 --> 00:30:37.920 his artistic soul seems firmly rooted in that 00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:41.980 pure original 1950s and 60s top 40 tradition. 00:30:42.359 --> 00:30:45.400 Buddy Holly, the Brill Building, Motown, the 00:30:45.400 --> 00:30:47.880 Beatles. He probably felt his music was just. 00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:51.339 pop music, really good pop music. And the industry 00:30:51.339 --> 00:30:53.960 needed to stick a new, maybe slightly reductive 00:30:53.960 --> 00:30:58.319 label on it in 1982 to market it. So in his mind, 00:30:58.319 --> 00:31:00.859 he never stopped being a Buddy Holly or Motown 00:31:00.859 --> 00:31:03.400 devotee. The guitars just got a bit louder for 00:31:03.400 --> 00:31:05.180 the era. That feels like a fair way to put it. 00:31:05.200 --> 00:31:07.470 Yeah. He didn't change his core. The packaging 00:31:07.470 --> 00:31:09.690 changed around him. But his influence, regardless 00:31:09.690 --> 00:31:12.470 of the label, it clearly transcends any single 00:31:12.470 --> 00:31:14.789 genre tag. And the ultimate proof of that is 00:31:14.789 --> 00:31:16.890 just looking at the sheer range of artists who've 00:31:16.890 --> 00:31:18.650 covered his songs over the years. It's an incredible 00:31:18.650 --> 00:31:20.990 list. Super diverse, crosses all sorts of genre 00:31:20.990 --> 00:31:23.569 lines, from rockabilly artists like Luann Barton 00:31:23.569 --> 00:31:27.630 to icons like Ronnie Spector, respected contemporaries 00:31:27.630 --> 00:31:30.250 like Marty Jones, even mainstream superstars 00:31:30.250 --> 00:31:32.740 like Bette Midler. Bette Midler covered a Marshall 00:31:32.740 --> 00:31:37.079 Crenshaw song. She did. And even, randomly, the 00:31:37.079 --> 00:31:40.319 UK bubblegum pop group S Club recorded one of 00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:42.880 his tunes. S Club? Okay, that's eclectic. Right. 00:31:43.019 --> 00:31:44.900 I mean, when you've got Ronnie Spector and S 00:31:44.900 --> 00:31:47.079 Club covering your work, you've... achieved a 00:31:47.079 --> 00:31:49.180 pretty universal songwriting status, wouldn't 00:31:49.180 --> 00:31:52.400 you say? Absolutely. His ultimate success maybe 00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:54.920 lies in the fact that he just consistently wrote 00:31:54.920 --> 00:31:57.619 songs that were, as Trouser Press Magazine once 00:31:57.619 --> 00:32:00.539 put it, too talented and original to be anyone 00:32:00.539 --> 00:32:02.660 but himself. Even if he didn't always achieve 00:32:02.660 --> 00:32:05.079 that huge sustained commercial success singing 00:32:05.079 --> 00:32:08.079 them himself. The songs endure. Hashtag tag outro. 00:32:08.299 --> 00:32:10.619 So let's try and synthesize this. What does this 00:32:10.619 --> 00:32:13.140 whole journey mean for you, the learner, listening 00:32:13.140 --> 00:32:16.160 today? Marshall Crenshaw hits his commercial 00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:19.720 peak really early in 1982, some day, some way. 00:32:19.839 --> 00:32:21.680 Right out of the gate. And then faces almost 00:32:21.680 --> 00:32:23.519 immediate commercial disappointment with the 00:32:23.519 --> 00:32:26.380 follow -up, Field Day, the classic sophomore 00:32:26.380 --> 00:32:29.539 slump amplified by label issues. Yeah, the trajectory 00:32:29.539 --> 00:32:32.519 seemed to stall right there. And yet, he managed 00:32:32.519 --> 00:32:35.400 to sustain this incredibly vital, influential 00:32:35.400 --> 00:32:38.559 career that's now spanned, what, over four decades? 00:32:39.130 --> 00:32:41.950 Still going strong. And he did it by strategically 00:32:41.950 --> 00:32:44.869 looking beyond that traditional album tour album 00:32:44.869 --> 00:32:48.210 cycle. He found success, real tangible success, 00:32:48.329 --> 00:32:51.369 by becoming, you know, a double platinum actor 00:32:51.369 --> 00:32:54.640 playing Buddy Holly. A gold -certified co -writer 00:32:54.640 --> 00:32:57.019 penning hits for bands like the Gin Blossoms. 00:32:57.019 --> 00:32:59.660 A respected radio host and music curator. And 00:32:59.660 --> 00:33:02.599 finally, a sustainable, respected touring artist 00:33:02.599 --> 00:33:06.059 on his own terms. He basically proved that an 00:33:06.059 --> 00:33:08.500 artist's longevity isn't always determined by 00:33:08.500 --> 00:33:10.859 major label backing or chasing chart positions. 00:33:11.079 --> 00:33:13.960 Right. But by this unwavering loyalty to the 00:33:13.960 --> 00:33:16.660 integrity of the craft itself. The songwriting. 00:33:16.700 --> 00:33:19.279 His career is just this phenomenal case study 00:33:19.279 --> 00:33:21.799 in creative resilience, really. Sticking to your 00:33:21.799 --> 00:33:23.599 guns, finding different avenues. And thinking 00:33:23.599 --> 00:33:26.440 about that core craft, Crenshaw's music, as we've 00:33:26.440 --> 00:33:28.400 said, it's fundamentally built on that classic 00:33:28.400 --> 00:33:31.619 architecture of 50s and 60s pop. That's his bedrock. 00:33:31.839 --> 00:33:34.279 Good question. Yet his initial launch, his biggest 00:33:34.279 --> 00:33:37.279 solo moment, it was packaged and sold under the 00:33:37.279 --> 00:33:39.799 banner of the new sounds of new wave and power 00:33:39.799 --> 00:33:42.740 pop. The trendy labels of the day. Which raises, 00:33:42.779 --> 00:33:45.359 I think, a really powerful final question for 00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:47.660 you, the listener, to mull over after this deep 00:33:47.660 --> 00:33:51.039 dive. Is the real longevity of a true musical 00:33:51.039 --> 00:33:53.980 craftsman found in chasing those new genre trends, 00:33:54.180 --> 00:33:58.059 in embracing whatever the newest label is? Or 00:33:58.059 --> 00:34:01.660 is the true staying power actually found in sticking... 00:34:02.500 --> 00:34:05.359 faithfully, stubbornly maybe, to those core classic 00:34:05.359 --> 00:34:08.679 musical influences. The ones that, as Marshall 00:34:08.679 --> 00:34:10.559 Crenshaw himself put it, Really won't go away. 00:34:10.679 --> 00:34:12.920 Exactly. Regardless of the commercial climate, 00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:15.659 regardless of whatever term the critics or the 00:34:15.659 --> 00:34:17.679 labels invent for them this year or next year. 00:34:17.800 --> 00:34:19.780 That's a great question. Where does authenticity 00:34:19.780 --> 00:34:22.579 truly lie and does it ultimately win out? Something 00:34:22.579 --> 00:34:24.760 to definitely ponder as you maybe go back and 00:34:24.760 --> 00:34:27.260 revisit those fantastic early albums or even 00:34:27.260 --> 00:34:29.360 seek out his later work. Thanks for diving deep 00:34:29.360 --> 00:34:29.900 with us today.