WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.160 If you're looking for a crash course in one of 00:00:03.160 --> 00:00:05.500 the most potent, really painful and, you know, 00:00:05.500 --> 00:00:07.879 surprisingly current pieces of American history, 00:00:07.980 --> 00:00:10.460 a story about charisma, power, and ultimately 00:00:10.460 --> 00:00:12.580 betrayal, then you are definitely in the right 00:00:12.580 --> 00:00:15.179 place. Welcome back to the Deep Dive. Hey there. 00:00:15.359 --> 00:00:17.379 Yeah, today we're sort of peeling back the layers 00:00:17.379 --> 00:00:20.980 on the 2021 biographical historical drama, Judas 00:00:20.980 --> 00:00:23.059 and the Black Messiah. And our source material 00:00:23.059 --> 00:00:25.710 is, well... It's pretty exhaustive. We're covering 00:00:25.710 --> 00:00:28.469 everything from the precise devastating timeline 00:00:28.469 --> 00:00:33.929 of events in late 1960s Chicago. Right. All the 00:00:33.929 --> 00:00:36.850 way through to the incredible kind of logistical 00:00:36.850 --> 00:00:38.909 and creative journey the film took. Took six 00:00:38.909 --> 00:00:40.850 years. you know, to get it to the screen. Six 00:00:40.850 --> 00:00:43.070 years. Wow. And our mission today, it's more 00:00:43.070 --> 00:00:44.869 than just like summarizing the plot. We really 00:00:44.869 --> 00:00:46.729 want to unpack the film's narrative core. You 00:00:46.729 --> 00:00:49.530 know, the FBI's systematic elimination of Fred 00:00:49.530 --> 00:00:51.909 Hampton, but also give you that insider perspective 00:00:51.909 --> 00:00:55.950 on its production, its massive critical and awards 00:00:55.950 --> 00:00:58.109 reception, and maybe the most fascinating part, 00:00:58.270 --> 00:01:01.369 the completely unexpected background of the screenwriters 00:01:01.369 --> 00:01:03.609 who actually engineered this historical tragedy. 00:01:04.010 --> 00:01:07.170 It's quite a story behind the story. It really 00:01:07.170 --> 00:01:09.519 is. And the title itself, Judas. and the Black 00:01:09.519 --> 00:01:12.040 Messiah. It just lays the foundation, doesn't 00:01:12.040 --> 00:01:14.980 it? Right away, it signals that central conflict. 00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:17.859 It's the story of Fred Hampton, played brilliantly 00:01:17.859 --> 00:01:20.159 by Daniel Kaluuya. Oh, fantastic performance. 00:01:20.500 --> 00:01:22.959 Incredible. The dynamic 21 -year -old chairman 00:01:22.959 --> 00:01:26.000 of the Illinois Black Panther Party. And the 00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:28.900 film forces us, really, to witness his rapid 00:01:28.900 --> 00:01:32.519 rise and his tragic downfall through the eyes 00:01:32.519 --> 00:01:35.079 of his betrayer, William O 'Neill. Lakeith Stanfield. 00:01:35.239 --> 00:01:37.700 Played by Lakeith Stanfield, yeah. The FBI informant 00:01:37.700 --> 00:01:40.400 whose cooperation, whose information directly 00:01:40.400 --> 00:01:43.120 led to Hampton's assassination. And driving this 00:01:43.120 --> 00:01:45.459 whole thing, this urgent piece of cinema, is 00:01:45.459 --> 00:01:48.040 the director and producer Shaka King. who not 00:01:48.040 --> 00:01:50.700 only wrestled this incredibly complex material 00:01:50.700 --> 00:01:52.379 into a compelling narrative, but made sure it 00:01:52.379 --> 00:01:55.500 felt grounded, grounded in this authentic, almost 00:01:55.500 --> 00:01:57.819 painful reality. Yeah, and to really get the 00:01:57.819 --> 00:02:00.319 tragedy, you first have to understand the mechanism 00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:03.319 of the betrayal. How did it even start? And that 00:02:03.319 --> 00:02:05.299 begins with William O 'Neill. He wasn't like 00:02:05.299 --> 00:02:07.980 some disgruntled ideological opponent. He was, 00:02:08.020 --> 00:02:10.620 as you said, the Judas figure. But his involvement 00:02:10.620 --> 00:02:13.080 started with something remarkably small, almost 00:02:13.080 --> 00:02:16.939 foolish, really. petty crime. It's just the perfect 00:02:16.939 --> 00:02:19.800 tragic irony, isn't it? That the FBI found its 00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:23.060 ultimate tool of destruction through this low 00:02:23.060 --> 00:02:25.840 -level opportunistic offense. O 'Neal was just 00:02:25.840 --> 00:02:29.639 19, a kid basically, a petty criminal in Chicago. 00:02:30.060 --> 00:02:32.280 And the key detail, according to the sources, 00:02:32.439 --> 00:02:34.139 is he gets arrested for trying to steal a car. 00:02:34.280 --> 00:02:36.840 Okay, fine. But he tried to do it while posing 00:02:36.840 --> 00:02:39.199 as a federal officer, flashing a fake badge. 00:02:39.400 --> 00:02:42.080 That detail is crucial. That act of impersonation, 00:02:42.080 --> 00:02:43.960 that kind of desperate move, that's what gave 00:02:43.960 --> 00:02:46.340 the FBI the... perfect leverage. It handed it 00:02:46.340 --> 00:02:48.319 to them on a plate almost. It really did. It's 00:02:48.319 --> 00:02:50.960 like a textbook case of federal coercion. FBI 00:02:50.960 --> 00:02:53.120 Special Agent Roy Mitchell, Jesse Plemons plays 00:02:53.120 --> 00:02:55.699 him. Just brilliantly unsettling. He didn't need 00:02:55.699 --> 00:02:58.159 to, you know, win O 'Neill over ideologically. 00:02:58.319 --> 00:02:59.780 Didn't have to convince him the Panthers were 00:02:59.780 --> 00:03:02.900 bad. He just presented this non -negotiable ultimatum. 00:03:03.240 --> 00:03:05.379 Look, all the charges from the attempted car 00:03:05.379 --> 00:03:07.419 theft, the impersonation, all of it dropped. 00:03:08.090 --> 00:03:11.330 You walk free. If you agree to infiltrate the 00:03:11.330 --> 00:03:14.409 Illinois Black Panther Party, get inside. Gather 00:03:14.409 --> 00:03:17.610 detailed intelligence specifically on Fred Hampton. 00:03:17.650 --> 00:03:20.210 Mitchell just targeted his immediate self -interest, 00:03:20.409 --> 00:03:23.460 you know. Trapped him. So O 'Neill is now inside 00:03:23.460 --> 00:03:25.840 the organization. He takes the deal. But then 00:03:25.840 --> 00:03:29.419 he's immediately confronted by the sheer just 00:03:29.419 --> 00:03:32.120 overwhelming power of Fred Hampton. And we really 00:03:32.120 --> 00:03:35.139 need to contextualize why Hampton was so feared 00:03:35.139 --> 00:03:37.340 by the establishment, don't we? Absolutely. He 00:03:37.340 --> 00:03:39.719 wasn't just some firebrand speaker shouting slogans. 00:03:39.780 --> 00:03:43.080 He was a master community organizer, a truly 00:03:43.080 --> 00:03:46.319 persuasive orator who spoke directly to systemic 00:03:46.319 --> 00:03:49.180 poverty, to injustice in a way that resonated 00:03:49.180 --> 00:03:51.969 deeply. Exactly. film, make sure to show the 00:03:51.969 --> 00:03:54.430 BPP's constructive side, too. Those initiatives 00:03:54.430 --> 00:03:56.110 like the Free Breakfast for Children program. 00:03:56.210 --> 00:03:59.080 Yeah, it was huge. Hugely important. It provided 00:03:59.080 --> 00:04:01.360 nutrition, structure for kids in impoverished 00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:03.840 areas. It was offering a tangible alternative 00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:06.759 to state systems that were, frankly, ignoring 00:04:06.759 --> 00:04:09.759 them. This was real social action. It showed 00:04:09.759 --> 00:04:12.439 the BPP wasn't just about armed rhetoric. It 00:04:12.439 --> 00:04:15.039 was about building parallel structures, parallel 00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:17.519 governance almost. But the truly revolutionary 00:04:17.519 --> 00:04:20.639 thing, the action that must have absolutely terrified 00:04:20.639 --> 00:04:23.500 the FBI and J. Edgar Hoover the most, was Hampton 00:04:23.500 --> 00:04:26.019 successfully forging the multiracial Rainbow 00:04:26.019 --> 00:04:28.579 Coalition. I mean, that was just... Yeah. Radical 00:04:28.579 --> 00:04:31.339 for late 1960s Chicago. Oh, incredibly radical. 00:04:31.459 --> 00:04:34.100 Yeah. And critical. The sources really underline 00:04:34.100 --> 00:04:36.360 the significance here. Hampton managed to align 00:04:36.360 --> 00:04:39.060 the Black Panther Party, a revolutionary black 00:04:39.060 --> 00:04:41.660 organization, with predominantly white groups 00:04:41.660 --> 00:04:43.939 like the Young Patriots organization. Which was 00:04:43.939 --> 00:04:46.600 made up of poor, working class white Southerners. 00:04:46.600 --> 00:04:49.439 Right. Migrants to Chicago. That's right. Appalachian 00:04:49.439 --> 00:04:51.500 migrants. And also the Puerto Rican civil rights 00:04:51.500 --> 00:04:53.839 group, the Young Lords. Think about that. In 00:04:53.839 --> 00:04:55.959 an era just defined by racial tension and division, 00:04:56.240 --> 00:04:58.759 Hampton was building a unified class -based movement 00:04:58.759 --> 00:05:02.019 that deliberately crossed racial lines. The threat 00:05:02.019 --> 00:05:04.660 wasn't just, you know, law and order. The threat 00:05:04.660 --> 00:05:08.120 was to the fundamental power structure, to capitalism, 00:05:08.319 --> 00:05:11.079 to racial hierarchy. Precisely. And the narrative, 00:05:11.300 --> 00:05:14.699 smartly. It also humanizes Hampton. Right. It 00:05:14.699 --> 00:05:16.839 weaves in details about his relationship with 00:05:16.839 --> 00:05:19.560 fellow BPP member Deborah Johnson. Dominique 00:05:19.560 --> 00:05:21.439 Fishback plays her. Another great performance. 00:05:21.819 --> 00:05:24.740 Really strong. And that relationship, it just 00:05:24.740 --> 00:05:27.519 deepens the tragedy. Yeah. Especially when you 00:05:27.519 --> 00:05:29.259 learn she was pregnant with their child when 00:05:29.259 --> 00:05:31.399 Hampton was briefly released from prison later 00:05:31.399 --> 00:05:34.750 on. That personal connection, it grounds the 00:05:34.750 --> 00:05:37.769 political struggle in real human stakes. And 00:05:37.769 --> 00:05:39.930 as this revolutionary power is building, you 00:05:39.930 --> 00:05:41.850 see the state's response getting more and more 00:05:41.850 --> 00:05:44.250 desperate. The legal system just gets used like 00:05:44.250 --> 00:05:46.790 a blunt instrument against him. Ampton's initial 00:05:46.790 --> 00:05:48.889 imprisonment, the one that temporarily pulled 00:05:48.889 --> 00:05:51.009 him out of organizing, it was based on the completely 00:05:51.009 --> 00:05:54.029 absurd pretext of him allegedly stealing, what 00:05:54.029 --> 00:05:57.069 was it, $71 worth of ice cream bars? $71 of ice 00:05:57.069 --> 00:05:58.910 cream. It sounds like a joke, but it wasn't. 00:05:59.149 --> 00:06:01.870 The sheer pettiness of that charge against a 00:06:01.870 --> 00:06:04.430 man organizing these cross -community solidarity 00:06:04.430 --> 00:06:07.449 movements, it just speaks volumes about the FBI 00:06:07.449 --> 00:06:09.949 strategy, doesn't it? It wasn't about justice. 00:06:10.050 --> 00:06:12.910 It was harassment, removal by any means necessary. 00:06:13.290 --> 00:06:15.870 They couldn't charge him for organizing effectively, 00:06:16.189 --> 00:06:18.689 so they charged him for ice cream. Meanwhile, 00:06:18.949 --> 00:06:21.899 Onea... The informant. He's getting forced deeper 00:06:21.899 --> 00:06:24.259 and deeper into the deception. He actually rises 00:06:24.259 --> 00:06:26.980 through the BPP ranks, becomes a trusted figure. 00:06:27.079 --> 00:06:29.439 He ends up as their security captain. The irony 00:06:29.439 --> 00:06:33.399 is just excruciating. It's unbelievable. And 00:06:33.399 --> 00:06:36.199 the internal conflict for him becomes unbearable 00:06:36.199 --> 00:06:39.139 during a police operation, a raid that actually 00:06:39.139 --> 00:06:41.420 included the firebombing of the BPP chapter office. 00:06:41.680 --> 00:06:44.019 His life is genuinely at risk. He manages to 00:06:44.019 --> 00:06:46.000 get out of that chaos, but he's furious, right? 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:48.139 He wants out. Yeah, he tries to quit. Tells Mitchell, 00:06:48.240 --> 00:06:50.600 I'm done. This is too dangerous. But Mitchell 00:06:50.600 --> 00:06:52.519 just holds up the threat of the original car 00:06:52.519 --> 00:06:54.699 theft charges. Yeah. Just dangles it over him. 00:06:54.759 --> 00:06:57.000 The FBI didn't need his loyalty. They just needed 00:06:57.000 --> 00:07:00.019 leverage. And they held onto it tight. OK, so 00:07:00.019 --> 00:07:02.560 this escalating internal pressure, the violence, 00:07:02.860 --> 00:07:06.160 it leads to the final devastating push from the 00:07:06.160 --> 00:07:08.819 FBI. What's the catalyst there? Well, there are 00:07:08.819 --> 00:07:12.120 a couple of key events. First, the tragic. Very 00:07:12.120 --> 00:07:15.620 suspicious death of BPP member Jimmy Palmer while 00:07:15.620 --> 00:07:18.319 he was in police custody. Then fellow member 00:07:18.319 --> 00:07:21.100 Jake Winters retaliates. There's a deadly shootout. 00:07:21.139 --> 00:07:23.540 Winters kills several officers before being killed 00:07:23.540 --> 00:07:25.819 himself. Oh, things are spiraling. Exactly. The 00:07:25.819 --> 00:07:28.079 stakes just shoot to the roof. And then Hampton's 00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:30.740 appeal for that ridiculous ice cream charge gets 00:07:30.740 --> 00:07:34.000 rejected. So he's facing prison time again. With 00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:36.240 all this violence swirling, the FBI director, 00:07:36.500 --> 00:07:39.480 J. Edgar Hoover, decides, OK, the time for just 00:07:39.480 --> 00:07:42.889 containment, for harassment. It's over. And here 00:07:42.889 --> 00:07:45.730 we need to really pause and contextualize the 00:07:45.730 --> 00:07:48.629 true weight of the FBI's actions. Hoover gives 00:07:48.629 --> 00:07:50.550 the ultimate directive. Fred Hampton must be 00:07:50.550 --> 00:07:52.490 neutralized. That's the word they use. Neutralized. 00:07:52.529 --> 00:07:54.230 Chilly. This isn't just surveillance anymore. 00:07:54.350 --> 00:07:55.970 This is a mandate for political assassination 00:07:55.970 --> 00:07:58.529 operating directly under the umbrella of the 00:07:58.529 --> 00:08:00.670 FBI's notorious counterintelligence program. 00:08:01.009 --> 00:08:02.949 Yeah, that's such a critical point for you, the 00:08:02.949 --> 00:08:06.069 listener, to really grasp. The FBI's actions 00:08:06.069 --> 00:08:08.990 weren't random. They weren't rogue agents. This 00:08:08.990 --> 00:08:12.350 was systematic. Part of COINTELPRO, the counterintelligence 00:08:12.350 --> 00:08:15.009 program. Which ran for years. It operated from 00:08:15.009 --> 00:08:19.750 1956 all the way to 1971. And its stated purpose, 00:08:19.889 --> 00:08:22.930 its official purpose, was to survey, infiltrate, 00:08:22.990 --> 00:08:26.509 discredit, and disrupt domestic political organizations. 00:08:27.089 --> 00:08:29.089 But for groups like the Black Panther Party, 00:08:29.230 --> 00:08:33.250 the directive was explicit to prevent the rise 00:08:33.250 --> 00:08:35.889 of a Black Messiah, quote unquote, who could 00:08:35.889 --> 00:08:39.309 unify and galvanize Black nationalism. So Hampton 00:08:39.309 --> 00:08:41.909 fit that profile perfectly in their eyes. He 00:08:41.909 --> 00:08:43.970 is exactly who they feared. This wasn't just 00:08:43.970 --> 00:08:46.289 a few bad apples. This was institutionalized 00:08:46.289 --> 00:08:48.269 destruction aimed at political movements. OK, 00:08:48.330 --> 00:08:50.370 so armed with this deadly directive from Hoover, 00:08:50.590 --> 00:08:53.389 Mitchell corners O 'Neill one last time. How 00:08:53.389 --> 00:08:55.509 does he ensure compliance this time? He plays 00:08:55.509 --> 00:08:57.909 the fear card again, but differently. He basically 00:08:57.909 --> 00:09:00.309 warns O 'Neill, look, whether you quit now or 00:09:00.309 --> 00:09:02.509 not, the BPP is eventually going to find out 00:09:02.509 --> 00:09:04.529 you're the mole. They'll figure it out. And when 00:09:04.529 --> 00:09:06.490 they do, you're in mortal danger either way. 00:09:06.610 --> 00:09:08.870 So he's trapped. Damned if he does, damned if 00:09:08.870 --> 00:09:11.789 he doesn't. Completely trapped. Terrified. He 00:09:11.789 --> 00:09:14.470 reluctantly agrees to the plan. And the film 00:09:14.470 --> 00:09:17.889 shows him receiving the vial of sedatives. Not 00:09:17.889 --> 00:09:20.730 directly from Mitchell, but from another undercover 00:09:20.730 --> 00:09:24.190 FBI collaborator. Oh, interesting detail. Yeah, 00:09:24.230 --> 00:09:26.149 it's sort of a subtle gesture. Maybe meant to 00:09:26.149 --> 00:09:28.129 assure O 'Neill he wasn't totally alone in this. 00:09:28.190 --> 00:09:30.250 That he was part of this larger machinery of 00:09:30.250 --> 00:09:33.159 betrayal. Makes it slightly less... Personal, 00:09:33.220 --> 00:09:35.440 maybe? Yeah. Or just spreads the guilt? So the 00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:38.100 execution of the plan, it's just cold, clinical. 00:09:38.440 --> 00:09:41.240 Utterly. The following evening, BPP members, 00:09:41.559 --> 00:09:43.279 including Hampton, who's just been released from 00:09:43.279 --> 00:09:45.519 jail briefly, they gather at the apartment on 00:09:45.519 --> 00:09:48.159 Monroe Street. O 'Neill is there. And there's 00:09:48.159 --> 00:09:50.340 this moment where an allied gang leader actually 00:09:50.340 --> 00:09:53.350 offers Hampton money to flee the country. A chance 00:09:53.350 --> 00:09:55.850 to save himself. And Hampton refuses. Immediately 00:09:55.850 --> 00:09:58.409 rejects it. Insists the money has to be used 00:09:58.409 --> 00:10:00.590 to establish a people's medical clinic. In memory 00:10:00.590 --> 00:10:02.509 of Jake Winters, the member killed in the shootout. 00:10:02.669 --> 00:10:05.269 That final choice just highlights his absolute 00:10:05.269 --> 00:10:07.049 commitment to the movement over his own safety. 00:10:07.250 --> 00:10:09.870 And it's in that atmosphere, hours before the 00:10:09.870 --> 00:10:13.629 raid, that O 'Neill does it. Yeah. He slips the 00:10:13.629 --> 00:10:16.450 sedative, probably secobarbital, into Hampton's 00:10:16.450 --> 00:10:18.730 drink. He then leaves the apartment not long 00:10:18.730 --> 00:10:21.419 after. Just disappears into the Chicago night. 00:10:21.600 --> 00:10:23.940 And then... Hours later, in the pre -dawn darkness, 00:10:24.139 --> 00:10:27.299 around 4 .45 a .m., a joint force of Chicago 00:10:27.299 --> 00:10:30.299 police officers working with FBI agents raids 00:10:30.299 --> 00:10:33.000 the apartment. They shoot and assassinate the 00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:35.440 unconscious Fred Hampton in his bed. While he's 00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:38.840 drugged. Unconscious. Yeah. And they arrest Deborah 00:10:38.840 --> 00:10:41.519 Johnson, who's lying next to him pregnant. The 00:10:41.519 --> 00:10:44.379 film is unflinching. It doesn't shy away from 00:10:44.379 --> 00:10:46.659 the horrific reality of that state -sanctioned 00:10:46.659 --> 00:10:49.039 murder. The postscript of the film is crucial 00:10:49.039 --> 00:10:51.620 too, right? It provides that necessary historical 00:10:51.620 --> 00:10:55.000 context, the long shadow this event casts. Absolutely 00:10:55.000 --> 00:10:57.179 essential. We see that powerful archival footage 00:10:57.179 --> 00:10:59.480 of Hampton's funeral procession, thousands of 00:10:59.480 --> 00:11:01.960 people. It shows the immense impact his death 00:11:01.960 --> 00:11:04.320 had on the community. And crucially, we also 00:11:04.320 --> 00:11:06.860 see snippets of that 1989 interview O 'Neill 00:11:06.860 --> 00:11:08.779 gave for the documentary Eyes on the Prize 2. 00:11:08.879 --> 00:11:11.259 Where he's clearly haunted. Oh, deeply. A man 00:11:11.259 --> 00:11:13.159 just living with a terrible weight of his choices, 00:11:13.320 --> 00:11:15.299 trying to justify them maybe, but the weight 00:11:15.299 --> 00:11:17.779 is visible. And the final title cards deliver 00:11:17.779 --> 00:11:20.850 that devastating historical fallout. O 'Neill 00:11:20.850 --> 00:11:22.850 continued working as an informant, even went 00:11:22.850 --> 00:11:25.009 into witness protection for a while, but ultimately 00:11:25.009 --> 00:11:27.389 he couldn't escape the past. He took his own 00:11:27.389 --> 00:11:30.110 life in 1990 on the very day Eyes on the Prize 00:11:30.110 --> 00:11:32.929 2 premiered. Such a tragic end. And on the judicial 00:11:32.929 --> 00:11:35.350 side, the Hampton family and the survivors of 00:11:35.350 --> 00:11:38.169 the raid, they filed a monumental civil lawsuit 00:11:38.169 --> 00:11:41.230 against the FBI, the Chicago police, the Cook 00:11:41.230 --> 00:11:44.289 County State's attorney. filed it back in 1970 00:11:44.289 --> 00:11:46.990 and it wasn't a quick settlement not at all it 00:11:46.990 --> 00:11:51.090 dragged on for 12 agonizing years 12 years before 00:11:51.090 --> 00:11:55.070 finally being settled in 1982 for 1 .85 million 00:11:55.070 --> 00:11:58.029 dollars which okay was a significant sum for 00:11:58.029 --> 00:12:00.730 the time but does it even begin to cover the 00:12:00.730 --> 00:12:02.809 cost of a life taken a movement deliberately 00:12:02.809 --> 00:12:05.519 dismantled of course not and Connecting that 00:12:05.519 --> 00:12:07.620 history right up to the present day, the sources 00:12:07.620 --> 00:12:09.960 confirm that Fred Hampton Jr., the son born just 00:12:09.960 --> 00:12:12.179 weeks after the assassination, and his mother, 00:12:12.259 --> 00:12:14.919 Akua Njeri, formerly Deborah Johnson, they continue 00:12:14.919 --> 00:12:17.120 the fight. They preserve the movement's legacy. 00:12:17.279 --> 00:12:19.379 They serve as chairman and board member, respectively, 00:12:19.580 --> 00:12:22.320 of the Black Panther Party Cubs. Yeah, the legacy 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:26.259 endures. The tragedy of 1969 still echoes very 00:12:26.259 --> 00:12:28.860 powerfully in the work they do today. Okay, so 00:12:28.860 --> 00:12:32.080 if the history itself is that complex and devastating, 00:12:32.320 --> 00:12:35.539 the path to actually bringing this story to the 00:12:35.539 --> 00:12:39.080 screen? Well, it's equally complex and, frankly, 00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:41.679 absolutely fascinating. We have to start with 00:12:41.679 --> 00:12:43.919 the most surprising fact about where this film 00:12:43.919 --> 00:12:46.440 even began. It started with two stand -up comedians. 00:12:46.539 --> 00:12:49.899 Right. It sounds unlikely, doesn't it? The originators 00:12:49.899 --> 00:12:52.240 of this concept were identical twin brothers. 00:12:52.759 --> 00:12:54.940 Kenny and Keith Lucas. You probably know them 00:12:54.940 --> 00:12:57.019 from the comedy world as the Lucas Brothers. 00:12:57.179 --> 00:12:59.639 And what's amazing is they initiated this concept 00:12:59.639 --> 00:13:02.500 way back in 2014. They saw the cinematic potential 00:13:02.500 --> 00:13:05.120 in that O 'Neill Hampton dynamic years ago. And 00:13:05.120 --> 00:13:07.200 their pitch. It wasn't framed as just, you know, 00:13:07.220 --> 00:13:09.539 a dry historical document. They pitched it as 00:13:09.539 --> 00:13:12.220 a high concept political thriller. The analogy 00:13:12.220 --> 00:13:15.100 they used, which is so telling, was the conformist 00:13:15.100 --> 00:13:17.360 meets the departed. Wow. OK, that immediately 00:13:17.360 --> 00:13:19.700 tells you the angle. Exactly. It defines that 00:13:19.700 --> 00:13:22.080 dual focus perfectly. You've got the internal 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:25.320 moral decay of the individual O 'Neill as the 00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:28.139 conformist figure set against the backdrop of 00:13:28.139 --> 00:13:31.779 this high stakes, violent underworld of loyalty 00:13:31.779 --> 00:13:34.820 and infiltration like the departed. That's a 00:13:34.820 --> 00:13:36.799 smart pitch. So they shopped that around. They 00:13:36.799 --> 00:13:39.840 did. Took it to major players like A24, Netflix. 00:13:40.340 --> 00:13:43.580 And before Shaka King got involved, the project 00:13:43.580 --> 00:13:46.200 nearly took a very different shape. Our sources 00:13:46.200 --> 00:13:48.940 mentioned an earlier version that had F. Gary 00:13:48.940 --> 00:13:51.240 Gray potentially directing. Oh, interesting. 00:13:51.559 --> 00:13:53.259 Yeah, and they were apparently looking at Jaden 00:13:53.259 --> 00:13:55.700 Smith or Shea Jackson Jr. for the role of Hampton. 00:13:55.899 --> 00:13:59.669 That version, for whatever reason, stalled. Which, 00:13:59.710 --> 00:14:02.269 you know, maybe thankfully allowed the vision 00:14:02.269 --> 00:14:04.789 we got to eventually evolve. So how did Shaka 00:14:04.789 --> 00:14:06.789 King come into the picture? That happened around 00:14:06.789 --> 00:14:08.870 2016. The Lucas Brothers were actually working 00:14:08.870 --> 00:14:11.389 on a television pilot with Shaka King. They pitched 00:14:11.389 --> 00:14:13.970 him the Hampton story during that time. King 00:14:13.970 --> 00:14:16.330 was immediately intrigued, and suddenly the project 00:14:16.330 --> 00:14:18.429 had its creative anchor. King then brought in 00:14:18.429 --> 00:14:21.389 screenwriter Will Burson. Who, it turns out, 00:14:21.409 --> 00:14:24.710 had also been developing his own separate Hampton 00:14:24.710 --> 00:14:27.470 screenplay. So the four of them, King, Burson 00:14:27.470 --> 00:14:30.070 and Kenny and Keith Linkus, they collaborated 00:14:30.070 --> 00:14:33.169 extensively, merged their visions, hammered out 00:14:33.169 --> 00:14:35.169 the script together. A real team effort then. 00:14:35.370 --> 00:14:38.649 Definitely. And a crucial part of this six year 00:14:38.649 --> 00:14:41.070 development process was getting the authenticity 00:14:41.070 --> 00:14:44.649 right, ethically and historically. The filmmakers 00:14:44.649 --> 00:14:47.470 knew. Absolutely new. They could not make this 00:14:47.470 --> 00:14:49.669 film without the blessing of Fred Hampton's family. 00:14:49.789 --> 00:14:52.850 That makes sense. So director King, Daniel Kaluuya, 00:14:52.929 --> 00:14:54.750 and one of the key producers, Charles D. King, 00:14:54.909 --> 00:14:57.129 they made personal appeals. They reached out 00:14:57.129 --> 00:15:00.250 directly to Hampton's widow, Akunjeri, and his 00:15:00.250 --> 00:15:02.750 son, Fed Hampton Jr. And that wasn't just like 00:15:02.750 --> 00:15:05.370 a courtesy call, right? It was essential. Non 00:15:05.370 --> 00:15:07.230 -negotiable. The family's blessing was absolutely 00:15:07.230 --> 00:15:09.529 essential. And they weren't just passive approvers. 00:15:09.629 --> 00:15:11.970 They were actively involved, consulted on the 00:15:11.970 --> 00:15:14.450 script, on casting decisions, really helped the 00:15:14.450 --> 00:15:16.669 production maintain fidelity to Hampton's legacy 00:15:16.669 --> 00:15:19.850 as they saw it. Now, getting the financing for 00:15:19.850 --> 00:15:23.110 something like this, that must have been linked 00:15:23.110 --> 00:15:25.190 to keeping that integrity intact. It wasn't a 00:15:25.190 --> 00:15:27.850 cheap film. No. It carried a significant budget, 00:15:27.970 --> 00:15:31.250 around $26 million. And this is where producer 00:15:31.250 --> 00:15:34.649 Charles D. King's company, Macro, played a really 00:15:34.649 --> 00:15:38.110 decisive role. Macro financed fully half of that 00:15:38.110 --> 00:15:41.889 budget, 50%. Wow, okay. That's huge for an independent 00:15:41.889 --> 00:15:43.490 production company, and that gives them leverage, 00:15:43.590 --> 00:15:46.029 right? Immense leverage. This financing structure 00:15:46.029 --> 00:15:49.740 is like a deep dive nugget in itself. Macro putting 00:15:49.740 --> 00:15:51.179 up half the money meant they were essentially 00:15:51.179 --> 00:15:53.259 equal partners with the distributor, which was 00:15:53.259 --> 00:15:56.120 Warner Bros. Ah, I see. Producer Charles King 00:15:56.120 --> 00:15:58.500 specifically emphasized how that arrangement 00:15:58.500 --> 00:16:01.480 protected the film. It shielded it from the typical 00:16:01.480 --> 00:16:03.940 demands and compromises you might get from a 00:16:03.940 --> 00:16:06.759 purely studio -driven project. It meant Shaka 00:16:06.759 --> 00:16:09.519 King's vision, and those uncompromising authentic 00:16:09.519 --> 00:16:12.220 casting choices like getting Kaluuya and Stanfield 00:16:12.220 --> 00:16:14.679 could be protected. That kind of financial independence 00:16:14.679 --> 00:16:16.740 is pretty rare, isn't it? Especially for these 00:16:16.740 --> 00:16:18.899 kinds of politically sensitive historical dramas. 00:16:19.580 --> 00:16:22.360 Extremely rare. So with financing secured and 00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:24.600 the family on board, production moved forward. 00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:27.600 They ended up choosing Cleveland, Ohio to stand 00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:31.399 in for late 1960s Chicago. Why Cleveland? Cheaper. 00:16:31.799 --> 00:16:34.120 Or a period look. Probably a combination of factors, 00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:36.879 tax incentives, the right kind of period architecture. 00:16:37.379 --> 00:16:40.019 Filming itself was rapid. Started in October 00:16:40.019 --> 00:16:43.519 2019, wrapped after just 42 days in late December. 00:16:43.840 --> 00:16:46.519 Quick shoot. They used locations like the Ohio 00:16:46.519 --> 00:16:49.039 State Reformatory, that imposing old prison, 00:16:49.179 --> 00:16:52.139 to capture the right period feel. OK, let's pivot 00:16:52.139 --> 00:16:54.759 a bit to the soundtrack, because the music for 00:16:54.759 --> 00:16:56.779 this film became almost a cultural phenomenon 00:16:56.779 --> 00:16:59.240 in itself, didn't it? And it was definitely instrumental 00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:01.980 in its eventual award success. There were two 00:17:01.980 --> 00:17:04.380 albums. That's right. Two distinct soundtrack 00:17:04.380 --> 00:17:06.940 albums. The first one contained the film's original 00:17:06.940 --> 00:17:09.900 score. Really tense, atmospheric backing composed 00:17:09.900 --> 00:17:12.599 by two veterans, Mark Asham and Craig Harris. 00:17:12.980 --> 00:17:15.059 Effective score. But the second album was the 00:17:15.059 --> 00:17:16.900 one that really took off. Oh, yeah. Judas and 00:17:16.900 --> 00:17:19.099 the Black Messiah. The Inspired album. That's 00:17:19.099 --> 00:17:20.940 the one that captured the cultural moment. And 00:17:20.940 --> 00:17:23.299 that was a compilation? Yeah, a 22 -track compilation 00:17:23.299 --> 00:17:26.339 that recruited some of the absolute biggest names 00:17:26.339 --> 00:17:28.700 in contemporary rap and hip -hop. We're talking 00:17:28.700 --> 00:17:33.180 Jay -Z, ASAP Rocky, Nas. There's even a posthumous 00:17:33.180 --> 00:17:35.920 track from Nipsey Hussle. Wow. And the idea was 00:17:35.920 --> 00:17:38.519 for these artists to create music that responded 00:17:38.519 --> 00:17:41.460 directly to the film's themes. The struggle, 00:17:41.619 --> 00:17:43.839 the injustice, the revolutionary legacy. And 00:17:43.839 --> 00:17:47.279 the impact was big. Immediate. The inspired album 00:17:47.279 --> 00:17:49.680 shot straight to the top of the Billboard Soundtracks 00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:51.579 chart, and it reached, I think it was number 00:17:51.579 --> 00:17:54.880 12 on the overall weekly Billboard 200 chart. 00:17:55.099 --> 00:17:57.299 That's impressive for a soundtrack. It really 00:17:57.299 --> 00:17:59.160 showed that the film's historical message was 00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:01.519 resonating deeply with contemporary music culture, 00:18:01.740 --> 00:18:04.279 linking the BPP struggle back then to modern 00:18:04.279 --> 00:18:06.730 discussions about race and power. And the ultimate 00:18:06.730 --> 00:18:09.450 success story from the music side has to be HGR's 00:18:09.450 --> 00:18:11.750 song, right? Fight For You. Absolutely. She co 00:18:11.750 --> 00:18:13.470 -wrote and performed that track, and it just 00:18:13.470 --> 00:18:16.029 became this certified awards powerhouse. Won 00:18:16.029 --> 00:18:18.069 the Academy Award for Best Original Song. Oscar 00:18:18.069 --> 00:18:20.710 winner. Yep. And later, it also picked up the 00:18:20.710 --> 00:18:22.509 Grammy for Best Traditional R &B Performance. 00:18:22.869 --> 00:18:25.130 Huge success. We also have to talk about the 00:18:25.130 --> 00:18:29.069 release itself, because the context was unique, 00:18:29.309 --> 00:18:31.970 to say the least. Challenging. Totally unique 00:18:31.970 --> 00:18:33.730 and challenging. It was originally slated for 00:18:33.730 --> 00:18:37.640 August 2020. But then, you know, COVID -19 hit 00:18:37.640 --> 00:18:40.220 and the release was delayed entirely. It eventually 00:18:40.220 --> 00:18:41.960 got its premiere at the Sundance Film Festival 00:18:41.960 --> 00:18:45.380 on February 1st, 2021. Generated immediate buzz 00:18:45.380 --> 00:18:47.759 there. But the wider release was part of that 00:18:47.759 --> 00:18:51.119 whole controversial Warner Bros. strategy for 00:18:51.119 --> 00:18:54.079 2021, wasn't it? Exactly. Warner decided to release 00:18:54.079 --> 00:18:57.480 its entire 2021 film slate simultaneously in 00:18:57.480 --> 00:19:00.220 theaters and digitally on HBO Max, but only for 00:19:00.220 --> 00:19:02.480 a single month. Judas and the Black Messiah fell 00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:05.119 under that plan. It hit theaters and HBO Max 00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:08.039 in mid -February 2021. So the box office figures 00:19:08.039 --> 00:19:09.839 probably don't tell the whole story. Not at all. 00:19:09.880 --> 00:19:11.420 They reflect those constraints. It grossed a 00:19:11.420 --> 00:19:14.500 modest $7 .5 million worldwide against that $26 00:19:14.500 --> 00:19:17.079 million budget. Looks like a flop on paper. But 00:19:17.079 --> 00:19:19.039 the streaming numbers, that's where you see the 00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:20.799 reach and the importance, especially coming during 00:19:20.799 --> 00:19:22.579 that period of intense civil rights discourse 00:19:22.579 --> 00:19:26.480 after 2020. How many streams? Over 1 .4 million 00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:28.940 U .S. households streamed the film during that 00:19:28.940 --> 00:19:31.759 crucial first month on HBO Max. So the demand 00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:34.579 was massive. Even if people couldn't or wouldn't 00:19:34.579 --> 00:19:36.880 go to physical cinemas yet, the audience found 00:19:36.880 --> 00:19:40.579 it. Yeah. Hashtag Shag IV, reception, and the 00:19:40.579 --> 00:19:42.869 curious case of the supporting actors. Okay, 00:19:42.910 --> 00:19:44.450 so when we looked at the critical reception, 00:19:44.730 --> 00:19:46.910 it seems pretty clear the film just transcended 00:19:46.910 --> 00:19:49.609 those difficult release circumstances. It basically 00:19:49.609 --> 00:19:52.130 achieved instant classic status, didn't it? Oh, 00:19:52.130 --> 00:19:54.970 absolutely. The consensus was overwhelming. It 00:19:54.970 --> 00:19:58.329 achieved universal acclaim, got a 96 % positive 00:19:58.329 --> 00:20:00.549 rating on Rotten Tomatoes, which is huge, and 00:20:00.549 --> 00:20:03.250 84 on Metacritic. And maybe just as importantly, 00:20:03.369 --> 00:20:05.309 the audience is polled by CinemaScore, which 00:20:05.309 --> 00:20:08.589 measures actual audience enthusiasm. They gave 00:20:08.589 --> 00:20:12.190 the film a rare A grade. An A. Wow. That's hard 00:20:12.190 --> 00:20:14.450 to get. Very hard. It indicates not just that 00:20:14.450 --> 00:20:16.529 critics thought it was high quality, but that 00:20:16.529 --> 00:20:18.849 it had a really strong emotional resonance with 00:20:18.849 --> 00:20:20.509 the people who watched it. And the praise was 00:20:20.509 --> 00:20:23.230 pretty holistic, right? Across the board. Yeah, 00:20:23.269 --> 00:20:25.549 critics lauded pretty much everything. Shaka 00:20:25.549 --> 00:20:29.430 King's focused, intense direction, the taut cinematography 00:20:29.430 --> 00:20:32.769 capturing that 60s feel, but also the tension, 00:20:32.910 --> 00:20:35.690 the depth of the screenplay. And of course, the 00:20:35.690 --> 00:20:38.089 powerhouse performances. Kaluuya, Stanfield, 00:20:38.269 --> 00:20:41.420 Dominique Fishback as Deborah Johnson. all singled 00:20:41.420 --> 00:20:43.660 out. And the timing definitely played a role 00:20:43.660 --> 00:20:45.980 in how it was received, coming out shortly after 00:20:45.980 --> 00:20:49.099 the massive racial justice uprisings of 2020. 00:20:49.460 --> 00:20:51.539 Yeah, critics frequently noted that. They praised 00:20:51.539 --> 00:20:53.740 the film for doing more than just retelling history. 00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:56.720 It put the current moment into fresh historical 00:20:56.720 --> 00:20:59.960 context, as one review put it. It was hailed 00:20:59.960 --> 00:21:03.240 widely as a forceful condemnation of racial injustice, 00:21:03.619 --> 00:21:06.019 connecting past and present. And it immediately 00:21:06.019 --> 00:21:08.220 got compared to other big historical dramas of 00:21:08.220 --> 00:21:10.019 the time. Oh, yeah. It entered that conversation 00:21:10.019 --> 00:21:12.299 straight away. For instance, the Chicago Tribune 00:21:12.299 --> 00:21:14.700 Review called it brash, narratively risky, full 00:21:14.700 --> 00:21:16.859 of life. And then they went on to explicitly 00:21:16.859 --> 00:21:19.059 state that it was, quote, a leap and a bound 00:21:19.059 --> 00:21:21.720 ahead of the recent Netflix production, The Trial 00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:25.220 of the Chicago 7. Ooh, direct comparison. Yeah. 00:21:25.400 --> 00:21:28.359 That kind of comment really placed Judas firmly 00:21:28.359 --> 00:21:30.779 in the top tier of contemporary American historical 00:21:30.779 --> 00:21:34.079 cinema. It wasn't just another biopic. It was 00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:36.480 seen as something more vital. Okay, but... A 00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:39.640 film dealing with figures as revered as Hampton 00:21:39.640 --> 00:21:43.400 and systems as, well, destructive as COINTELPRO 00:21:43.400 --> 00:21:46.299 and the actions of the FBI and police. It must 00:21:46.299 --> 00:21:48.660 have faced some internal critique, too, especially 00:21:48.660 --> 00:21:51.380 from those aligned with Hampton's politics. Absolutely. 00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:54.099 And our sources highlight some really fascinating, 00:21:54.359 --> 00:21:57.240 conflicting viewpoints here. This is a key area 00:21:57.240 --> 00:21:59.240 to explore because it shows just how difficult 00:21:59.240 --> 00:22:01.859 it is to adapt history, especially a revolutionary 00:22:01.859 --> 00:22:04.759 history, in a way that satisfies everyone. There 00:22:04.759 --> 00:22:06.740 was definitely ideological critique. Like what? 00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:09.079 Well, for example, former Black Panther Party 00:22:09.079 --> 00:22:11.220 member Eddie Conway, who spent decades in prison 00:22:11.220 --> 00:22:13.380 himself, he publicly stated that he felt the 00:22:13.380 --> 00:22:16.880 film's portrayal of Hampton was factually inaccurate 00:22:16.880 --> 00:22:19.940 in its temperament. Temperament? How so? Conway 00:22:19.940 --> 00:22:22.880 argued the film depicted Hampton as maybe too 00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:25.859 cold. Too hardened, almost this kind of granite 00:22:25.859 --> 00:22:28.279 -like political figure. Whereas the historical 00:22:28.279 --> 00:22:30.440 Hampton, according to those who knew him well, 00:22:30.619 --> 00:22:33.019 was known for being outwardly warm -hearted, 00:22:33.180 --> 00:22:36.579 incredibly charismatic, even humorous in his 00:22:36.579 --> 00:22:39.480 day -to -day interactions. So a potential tension 00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:41.799 between capturing the revolutionary seriousness 00:22:41.799 --> 00:22:45.859 and the personal warmth. Exactly. That critique 00:22:45.859 --> 00:22:48.960 highlights the bind filmmakers can be in needing 00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:51.670 cinematic drama. which sometimes demands a certain 00:22:51.670 --> 00:22:54.549 severity, versus capturing the nuanced, full 00:22:54.549 --> 00:22:56.849 reality of a complex leader. And then there was 00:22:56.849 --> 00:22:59.690 the structural critique about focusing on O 'Neill. 00:22:59.829 --> 00:23:02.009 Right. This goes to the core decision the title 00:23:02.009 --> 00:23:04.089 announces. Yeah. Centering the story on Judas, 00:23:04.269 --> 00:23:06.859 the betrayer. Other leftist critics argue that 00:23:06.859 --> 00:23:09.220 this choice was a bit of a worn out trope. You 00:23:09.220 --> 00:23:10.799 know, something often deployed in films about 00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:12.480 martyred figures who challenged the capitalist 00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:14.619 system. What's the argument against that focus? 00:23:14.920 --> 00:23:18.619 The argument is basically by making the informants 00:23:18.619 --> 00:23:21.480 anxiety is internal moral struggle, the central 00:23:21.480 --> 00:23:24.660 dramatic hook of the film. You inevitably neglect 00:23:24.660 --> 00:23:28.359 to spend sufficient time really elucidating the 00:23:28.359 --> 00:23:31.890 actual. complexity, the intellectual rigor, the 00:23:31.890 --> 00:23:34.450 revolutionary political platform that Fred Hampton 00:23:34.450 --> 00:23:36.670 himself was advocating for. So the film becomes 00:23:36.670 --> 00:23:38.910 more of a thriller about a mole, potentially 00:23:38.910 --> 00:23:41.150 overshadowing the political message. That's the 00:23:41.150 --> 00:23:44.609 critique. That it risks becoming more about the 00:23:44.609 --> 00:23:46.829 betrayal mechanism than a deep dive into the 00:23:46.829 --> 00:23:48.690 political system Hampton was fighting against. 00:23:48.950 --> 00:23:51.789 It's a valid debate about narrative choices and 00:23:51.789 --> 00:23:54.029 their consequences. OK, this inherent tension 00:23:54.029 --> 00:23:56.329 between like narrative structure and historical 00:23:56.329 --> 00:23:59.710 mandate. It leads us perfectly to probably the 00:23:59.710 --> 00:24:02.089 most talked about awards moment of that season, 00:24:02.250 --> 00:24:05.569 the Oscar nomination anomaly. Yes, the supporting 00:24:05.569 --> 00:24:08.029 actor situation. Right. I mean, the film clearly 00:24:08.029 --> 00:24:10.430 has two leads, right? You've got Kaluuya as the 00:24:10.430 --> 00:24:13.049 Black Messiah, Fred Hampton, and you've got Lakeith 00:24:13.049 --> 00:24:15.769 Stanfield as Judas, William O 'Neill. The entire 00:24:15.769 --> 00:24:18.369 plot hinges on O 'Neill's perspective. It's pretty 00:24:18.369 --> 00:24:20.859 clear cut, isn't it? Yet, when the Oscar nominations 00:24:20.859 --> 00:24:24.059 were announced, Daniel Kaluuya and Lakeith Stanfield 00:24:24.059 --> 00:24:26.599 were both nominated for the Academy Award for 00:24:26.599 --> 00:24:29.759 Best Supporting Actor. Both of them. Which immediately 00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:33.170 made everyone go, huh. It raised eyebrows everywhere, 00:24:33.569 --> 00:24:36.049 not just because, you know, the line between 00:24:36.049 --> 00:24:38.450 lead and supporting can be blurry sometimes, 00:24:38.670 --> 00:24:41.569 but because it created this highly unusual situation. 00:24:42.170 --> 00:24:45.269 How can the two main characters both be supporting? 00:24:45.529 --> 00:24:47.250 It was unconventional enough that it sparked 00:24:47.250 --> 00:24:49.690 serious analysis from awards pundits and journalists. 00:24:50.170 --> 00:24:52.450 Often, you know, when studios have two strong 00:24:52.450 --> 00:24:54.950 actors and potentially lead roles in the same 00:24:54.950 --> 00:24:57.589 film, they'll strategically campaign one as lead 00:24:57.589 --> 00:24:59.900 and the other as supporting. Right. To avoid 00:24:59.900 --> 00:25:01.920 splitting the vote in one category, maximize 00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:04.519 the chances of a win somewhere. Exactly. But 00:25:04.519 --> 00:25:07.039 here, the confusion felt more genuine because 00:25:07.039 --> 00:25:08.960 the film really does feel like a two -hander. 00:25:09.160 --> 00:25:12.119 It forced people to genuinely question, well, 00:25:12.160 --> 00:25:14.160 what is the fundamental focus of this story? 00:25:14.339 --> 00:25:17.119 Who is it truly about? And the Neon Times journalist 00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:19.640 Kyle Buchanan had that perfect distillation of 00:25:19.640 --> 00:25:22.420 the absurdity, didn't he? Yeah, he jokingly asked 00:25:22.420 --> 00:25:25.220 on Twitter, I think it was, if Stanfield and 00:25:25.220 --> 00:25:28.299 Kaluuya are both supporting actors, then who 00:25:28.299 --> 00:25:31.480 exactly is this movie supposed to be about? Which 00:25:31.480 --> 00:25:33.319 summed up the confusion perfectly. So what was 00:25:33.319 --> 00:25:36.160 the final outcome? Ultimately, it was an undeniable, 00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:38.599 massive triumph for Kaluuya. His portrayal of 00:25:38.599 --> 00:25:40.759 Hampton was just so powerful, so commanding, 00:25:40.759 --> 00:25:43.140 that he swept the major awards. He won the Academy 00:25:43.140 --> 00:25:45.460 Award, the Golden Globe, the BAFTA, the Screen 00:25:45.460 --> 00:25:48.039 Actors Guild Award, all for Best Supporting Actor. 00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:51.599 Total sweep. Total sweep. Stanfield, though nominated 00:25:51.599 --> 00:25:54.019 right alongside him in that category, didn't 00:25:54.019 --> 00:25:56.480 win. But the fact that they were both nominated, 00:25:56.559 --> 00:25:59.119 both recognized at that level, really underlined 00:25:59.119 --> 00:26:01.099 the undeniable power of their collaborative, 00:26:01.160 --> 00:26:04.200 dual performances at the heart of the film, even 00:26:04.200 --> 00:26:07.279 if the category felt weird. Hashtag tag jizzy 00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:10.660 app. The unconventional background of the storytellers. 00:26:11.220 --> 00:26:13.619 Okay, so now let's circle all the way back to 00:26:13.619 --> 00:26:15.500 the guys who first conceived this whole high 00:26:15.500 --> 00:26:18.079 -stakes narrative. The screenwriters, Kenny and 00:26:18.079 --> 00:26:20.359 Keith Lucas, because their personal journey, 00:26:20.400 --> 00:26:22.940 it provides maybe the most compelling insight 00:26:22.940 --> 00:26:25.059 into why this film, despite being this heavy 00:26:25.059 --> 00:26:28.160 political tragedy, felt so structurally precise, 00:26:28.420 --> 00:26:31.380 maybe even had that analytical edge. The Lucas 00:26:31.380 --> 00:26:33.660 brothers. Yeah. Known for their comedy. Exactly. 00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:36.279 Identical twin brothers known primarily for their 00:26:36.279 --> 00:26:38.460 unique brand of observational, sometimes surreal, 00:26:38.660 --> 00:26:41.630 satirical comedy. That alone is a pretty startling 00:26:41.630 --> 00:26:44.069 pivot point for writing a searing political assassination 00:26:44.069 --> 00:26:46.509 thriller. Definitely unexpected. But their intellectual 00:26:46.509 --> 00:26:48.690 foundation, that's the really key part, isn't 00:26:48.690 --> 00:26:51.089 it? It's absolutely key. They weren't just, you 00:26:51.089 --> 00:26:53.309 know, comedy guys who stumbled into this. Before 00:26:53.309 --> 00:26:56.690 stand -up, they were philosophers. Both brothers 00:26:56.690 --> 00:26:58.890 graduated with honors from the College of New 00:26:58.890 --> 00:27:02.880 Jersey back in 2007. Their degrees. Philosophy. 00:27:03.079 --> 00:27:05.339 Philosophy. Okay, that changes the picture a 00:27:05.339 --> 00:27:07.500 bit. Completely. Think about the disciplines 00:27:07.500 --> 00:27:10.740 inherent in studying philosophy. Ethics, political 00:27:10.740 --> 00:27:14.440 theory, logic, existentialism. These are all 00:27:14.440 --> 00:27:17.039 perfect lenses through which to view the moral 00:27:17.039 --> 00:27:20.099 complexities, the decay of an informant figure 00:27:20.099 --> 00:27:22.099 like William O 'Neill. That makes a lot of sense, 00:27:22.180 --> 00:27:24.039 actually. But their academic ambition didn't 00:27:24.039 --> 00:27:26.140 even stop there, did it? Not even close. They 00:27:26.140 --> 00:27:28.660 made an even more significant commitment to academia 00:27:28.660 --> 00:27:31.339 before that final pivot into comedy. They both 00:27:31.339 --> 00:27:33.599 enrolled in top -tier law schools. Kenny went 00:27:33.599 --> 00:27:36.079 to NYU School of Law. Keith went to Duke University 00:27:36.079 --> 00:27:38.740 School of Law. Wow. NYU and Duke Law. That's 00:27:38.740 --> 00:27:41.519 serious academic firepower. Absolutely. And here 00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:43.579 is the truly incredible part, the testament to 00:27:43.579 --> 00:27:46.640 their commitment to their creative calling. They 00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:49.660 attended law school all the way through until 00:27:49.660 --> 00:27:51.980 the... literal final week of their third year. 00:27:52.099 --> 00:27:54.920 No way. The final week. The final week. They 00:27:54.920 --> 00:27:56.880 were basically standing on the threshold of graduation. 00:27:57.259 --> 00:27:58.720 Probably should have been prepping for the bar 00:27:58.720 --> 00:28:01.299 exam. And then together they decided, nope, we're 00:28:01.299 --> 00:28:03.200 dropping out to pursue stand -up comedy full 00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:05.220 -time. That takes, I don't even know what that 00:28:05.220 --> 00:28:08.599 takes, guts, insanity, conviction. An incredible 00:28:08.599 --> 00:28:10.720 amount of conviction, I think. Yeah. To walk 00:28:10.720 --> 00:28:12.799 away from that level of investment, that kind 00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:16.259 of guaranteed status and likely income. But they 00:28:16.259 --> 00:28:18.980 did it. They committed fully to comedy, made 00:28:18.980 --> 00:28:21.400 their late night debut on Late Night with Jimmy 00:28:21.400 --> 00:28:23.980 Fallon in 2012. Right. Then they developed their 00:28:23.980 --> 00:28:28.579 own animated series, Lucas Bros. Moving Co. appeared 00:28:28.579 --> 00:28:31.539 in movies like 22 Jump Street in 2014. They really 00:28:31.539 --> 00:28:33.640 built a comedy tree. And their comedy style, 00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:35.539 it reflects that background, doesn't it? It's 00:28:35.539 --> 00:28:37.720 not just jokes. Not at all. It's highly specific. 00:28:38.059 --> 00:28:40.940 It's categorized as observational, sure, but 00:28:40.940 --> 00:28:43.579 it leans heavily into political comedy, black 00:28:43.579 --> 00:28:46.720 comedy, satire, sometimes surreal humor. Their 00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:48.619 subjects frequently dissect African -American 00:28:48.619 --> 00:28:52.079 culture, American politics, race relations. But 00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:55.140 through this deliberately critical, often kind 00:28:55.140 --> 00:28:57.750 of detached analytical lens. So the philosophical 00:28:57.750 --> 00:29:00.509 training, the legal analysis training, it clearly 00:29:00.509 --> 00:29:03.369 informed that satirical viewpoint. Their comedy 00:29:03.369 --> 00:29:05.869 wasn't just, you know, slapstick. It was critical 00:29:05.869 --> 00:29:08.410 analysis disguised as humor. Precisely. Yeah. 00:29:08.490 --> 00:29:11.730 And that blend of analytical rigor and that sort 00:29:11.730 --> 00:29:16.059 of detached black comedic observation. It gave 00:29:16.059 --> 00:29:19.099 them the perfect, albeit totally unusual, toolkit 00:29:19.099 --> 00:29:21.920 to approach the deep tragedy of Fred Hampton's 00:29:21.920 --> 00:29:25.000 life without just succumbing to simple melodrama 00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:27.079 or sentimentality. And they got recognition for 00:29:27.079 --> 00:29:30.140 their comedy, too, right? Oh, yeah. Significant 00:29:30.140 --> 00:29:32.619 recognition. Their 2017 Netflix special, Lucas 00:29:32.619 --> 00:29:36.000 Brothers, on drugs, was highly acclaimed. It 00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:38.339 applied their signature surreal, critical style 00:29:38.339 --> 00:29:41.279 to topics like addiction and identity. Pace magazine 00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:43.380 ranked it the ninth best comedy special of that 00:29:43.380 --> 00:29:44.859 year. So they were deeply impressed. embedded 00:29:44.859 --> 00:29:46.940 successful figures in the comedy world when this 00:29:46.940 --> 00:29:49.059 political thriller project finally gained traction. 00:29:49.299 --> 00:29:51.500 And then the success of Judas and the Black Messiah 00:29:51.500 --> 00:29:55.019 just cemented this incredible multi -genre pivot. 00:29:55.180 --> 00:29:57.420 Their debut film is Screenwriters. Yeah. And 00:29:57.420 --> 00:29:59.380 they get nominated for an Oscar. Nominated for 00:29:59.380 --> 00:30:01.880 the Academy Award and the Writers Guild of America 00:30:01.880 --> 00:30:05.079 Award for Best Original Screenplay. Just phenomenal 00:30:05.079 --> 00:30:07.619 for debut feature script. And they won some major 00:30:07.619 --> 00:30:10.670 awards, too. They did. Along with Shaka King 00:30:10.670 --> 00:30:14.289 and Will Burson, they won the NAACP Image Award 00:30:14.289 --> 00:30:16.529 for Outstanding Writing in a Motion Picture. 00:30:16.769 --> 00:30:19.289 And they also won the prestigious Paul Selvin 00:30:19.289 --> 00:30:22.450 Award from the WGA, which specifically honors 00:30:22.450 --> 00:30:25.150 the film that best embodies the spirit of constitutional 00:30:25.150 --> 00:30:28.250 rights and civil liberties. A very fitting award 00:30:28.250 --> 00:30:30.430 for this film. So what are they doing now, still 00:30:30.430 --> 00:30:33.680 writing drama? We're back to comedy. Their trajectory 00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:36.160 is fascinating. They're now taking that writing 00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:39.160 acumen and applying it across genres. They're 00:30:39.160 --> 00:30:41.660 developing a new comedy project with Phil Lord 00:30:41.660 --> 00:30:44.400 and Christopher Miller, you know, the guys behind 00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:47.160 Spider -Verse, the Lego movie, 21 Jump Street. 00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:49.500 Okay, that sounds promising. Yeah, known for 00:30:49.500 --> 00:30:52.180 really sharp, witty stuff. And they're also working 00:30:52.180 --> 00:30:55.039 on a semi -autobiographical film based on their 00:30:55.039 --> 00:30:56.900 own lives, which is going to be produced by Jed 00:30:56.900 --> 00:30:59.289 Apatow. The king of modern comedy. So they're 00:30:59.289 --> 00:31:02.210 really straddling both worlds now. Exactly. What's 00:31:02.210 --> 00:31:04.289 so fascinating is that synthesis. They went from 00:31:04.289 --> 00:31:06.750 philosophy to law to satire and then applied 00:31:06.750 --> 00:31:08.910 all that training to write this searing political 00:31:08.910 --> 00:31:11.569 tragedy that earned them Hollywood's highest 00:31:11.569 --> 00:31:14.809 honors. It just shows the power, maybe, of bringing 00:31:14.809 --> 00:31:18.069 a really analytical, even detached mind to even 00:31:18.069 --> 00:31:19.769 the most emotional, gut -wrenching material. 00:31:20.299 --> 00:31:23.160 Hashtag tags the outro and final thought. So, 00:31:23.259 --> 00:31:25.640 OK, after this deep dive into the history, the 00:31:25.640 --> 00:31:28.680 production complexities, the the unconventional 00:31:28.680 --> 00:31:32.079 creative team behind it all. What's the key takeaway 00:31:32.079 --> 00:31:34.279 here? I mean, Judas and the Black Messiah clearly 00:31:34.279 --> 00:31:36.539 stands not just as a necessary historical record, 00:31:36.640 --> 00:31:39.180 but as a major artistic and cultural achievement. 00:31:39.200 --> 00:31:41.500 Right. I think that's undeniable. Despite those 00:31:41.500 --> 00:31:43.519 constraints of the pandemic release that really 00:31:43.519 --> 00:31:46.240 dampened the box office numbers, the film absolutely 00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:48.980 secured its legacy. Universal critical acclaim. 00:31:49.369 --> 00:31:51.630 Multiple Oscar wins, including for Kaluuya and 00:31:51.630 --> 00:31:54.450 the song. Yeah. It made its mark. And the story 00:31:54.450 --> 00:31:56.369 of how it got made, it feels like a powerful 00:31:56.369 --> 00:31:59.329 lesson in like cross -genre application or something. 00:31:59.369 --> 00:32:02.819 You have this tragic historical account. FBI 00:32:02.819 --> 00:32:05.960 manipulation, betrayal, assassination. Yet it 00:32:05.960 --> 00:32:08.119 was meticulously shaped by screenwriters who 00:32:08.119 --> 00:32:10.519 came from philosophy, law, and satirical black 00:32:10.519 --> 00:32:12.880 comedy. Yeah, and that background, that specific 00:32:12.880 --> 00:32:15.900 combination, allowed them to construct this high 00:32:15.900 --> 00:32:18.220 -stakes thriller that looks at the systematic 00:32:18.220 --> 00:32:21.119 destruction of a revolutionary leader through 00:32:21.119 --> 00:32:25.819 a lens that feels both critical and... Cooly 00:32:25.819 --> 00:32:28.099 intellectual, maybe. Not just purely emotional. 00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:30.680 Right. And that blend maybe ensured the film 00:32:30.680 --> 00:32:33.000 was seen not just as history, but as this unsettling, 00:32:33.039 --> 00:32:36.059 deeply relevant mirror. Reflecting the continued 00:32:36.059 --> 00:32:38.460 issues of systemic injustice we're still grappling 00:32:38.460 --> 00:32:41.059 with today. The Lucas Brothers journey kind of 00:32:41.059 --> 00:32:42.839 reminds us that sometimes the most insightful, 00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:45.140 the most enduring works of art, they come from 00:32:45.140 --> 00:32:46.940 people who approach these really serious subjects 00:32:46.940 --> 00:32:49.180 with an unexpected, maybe even rigorous analytical 00:32:49.180 --> 00:32:52.119 background. Well said. So maybe we leave you, 00:32:52.220 --> 00:32:54.759 the listener, with this final provocative thought. 00:32:55.180 --> 00:32:56.859 Armed now with all this knowledge about Fred 00:32:56.859 --> 00:32:59.000 Hampton's short but incredibly powerful life, 00:32:59.160 --> 00:33:03.099 about the decades -long FBI lawsuit, the COINTELPRO 00:33:03.099 --> 00:33:05.660 context, and the continued involvement of his 00:33:05.660 --> 00:33:08.960 son in preserving that legacy, the film's structural 00:33:08.960 --> 00:33:11.720 choice, the one we discussed, to center O 'Neill, 00:33:11.859 --> 00:33:15.019 the betrayer, it really highlights the cost of 00:33:15.019 --> 00:33:18.240 complicity, the cost of ambivalence. So if, as 00:33:18.240 --> 00:33:20.000 some of those critics claimed, ambivalence can 00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:23.099 be its own form of betrayal, What does that imply 00:33:23.099 --> 00:33:24.980 about your own engagement, your own attention 00:33:24.980 --> 00:33:27.900 to uncomfortable historical truths and systemic 00:33:27.900 --> 00:33:30.519 issues today? Now that you're armed with this 00:33:30.519 --> 00:33:32.980 detailed knowledge from the film and its history. 00:33:33.099 --> 00:33:34.640 That's definitely something to mull over. How 00:33:34.640 --> 00:33:36.440 do we engage with these histories once we know 00:33:36.440 --> 00:33:38.480 them? What responsibility comes with that knowledge? 00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:40.859 Food for thought as you reflect on the complexities 00:33:40.859 --> 00:33:42.839 of the past and the choices we all make in the 00:33:42.839 --> 00:33:45.799 present. That's it for this deep dive. We'll 00:33:45.799 --> 00:33:46.400 see you next time.