WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.240 Welcome back to the Deep Dive. Today we're looking 00:00:02.240 --> 00:00:05.799 at a career path that, well, it really shows 00:00:05.799 --> 00:00:08.380 how combining different kinds of expertise can 00:00:08.380 --> 00:00:10.380 lead to something amazing. Yeah, we're talking 00:00:10.380 --> 00:00:13.439 about Emily V. Gordon, American writer, producer, 00:00:13.679 --> 00:00:17.260 host. Her story is just fascinating, a real study 00:00:17.260 --> 00:00:20.039 in professional transformation. Totally, because 00:00:20.039 --> 00:00:22.120 it's not like a straight line, is it? Not at 00:00:22.120 --> 00:00:25.149 all. What's so compelling here is this sharp 00:00:25.149 --> 00:00:27.489 turn she took. I mean, she was a practicing family 00:00:27.489 --> 00:00:29.890 therapist. That's, you know, analytical, structured 00:00:29.890 --> 00:00:34.149 work. Right. And then she pivots hard into comedy 00:00:34.149 --> 00:00:36.630 production. And eventually, you know, Oscar -nominated 00:00:36.630 --> 00:00:39.649 screenwriting is quite the jump. That jump from 00:00:39.649 --> 00:00:41.469 the therapy room to the writer's room, that's 00:00:41.469 --> 00:00:43.570 what we're digging into today. We've gone through 00:00:43.570 --> 00:00:46.590 her education, her clinical work, her time in 00:00:46.590 --> 00:00:48.810 the L .A. comedy scene, all her production stuff. 00:00:48.969 --> 00:00:51.380 Yeah, lots to unpack. Our mission really is to 00:00:51.380 --> 00:00:54.159 trace the specifics, the details, the people 00:00:54.159 --> 00:00:56.159 she worked with that allowed her to take these 00:00:56.159 --> 00:00:59.719 incredibly personal, even traumatic moments and 00:00:59.719 --> 00:01:02.500 turn them into art that, well, everyone acclaimed. 00:01:02.659 --> 00:01:05.120 Universal stuff. And you really have to start 00:01:05.120 --> 00:01:06.859 with the big one, right? The anchor for this 00:01:06.859 --> 00:01:11.219 whole conversation is The Big Sick, 2017. Co 00:01:11.219 --> 00:01:13.640 -written, co -executive produced with Kumail 00:01:13.640 --> 00:01:17.049 Nanjiani. Exactly. Yeah. And it's just the perfect 00:01:17.049 --> 00:01:19.370 storm of her analytical mind, her comedy timing, 00:01:19.489 --> 00:01:22.430 and this intense personal experience. That film 00:01:22.430 --> 00:01:25.870 wasn't just her big break. No. It cemented her. 00:01:26.209 --> 00:01:29.549 Independent Spirit Award and, crucially, that 00:01:29.549 --> 00:01:31.829 Academy Award nomination for Best Original Screenplay. 00:01:31.890 --> 00:01:34.549 That's where she landed. But where she started 00:01:34.549 --> 00:01:36.609 is miles away. Okay, let's start there then. 00:01:36.709 --> 00:01:40.069 This foundation seems... Well, unexpected for 00:01:40.069 --> 00:01:41.689 where she ended up. Just looking at her degrees, 00:01:41.730 --> 00:01:43.790 you'd think, OK, career therapist. It does look 00:01:43.790 --> 00:01:46.170 that way. But I think the type of therapy training 00:01:46.170 --> 00:01:49.469 is actually key. So Emily V. Gordon, born May 00:01:49.469 --> 00:01:52.709 3, 1979, grew up in Winston -Salem, North Carolina. 00:01:52.870 --> 00:01:55.469 OK. Her first degree, B .A. in psychology from 00:01:55.469 --> 00:01:57.629 East Carolina University. Pretty standard path 00:01:57.629 --> 00:02:00.430 if you're interested in human behavior. Establishes 00:02:00.430 --> 00:02:02.349 that basic understanding. But then she really 00:02:02.349 --> 00:02:04.349 doubles down on the clinical side. The advanced 00:02:04.349 --> 00:02:06.920 degrees are super specialized. Oh, absolutely. 00:02:07.200 --> 00:02:09.099 She didn't just get a master's. She got an MS, 00:02:09.360 --> 00:02:13.159 Master of Science, and an EDS, an education specialist 00:02:13.159 --> 00:02:15.840 degree, both in couples and family counseling 00:02:15.840 --> 00:02:19.460 from UNC Greensboro. Okay, wait. Both an MS and 00:02:19.460 --> 00:02:23.300 an EDS, specifically in couples and family work. 00:02:23.719 --> 00:02:25.680 What does that tell us? The combination sounds 00:02:25.680 --> 00:02:28.060 pretty intense. It really is significant, especially 00:02:28.060 --> 00:02:30.780 the EDS. So EMS gives you the theory, right? 00:02:30.819 --> 00:02:33.580 The science, the why behind relationship dynamics. 00:02:33.740 --> 00:02:36.439 Right. But the EES, that's often more about advanced 00:02:36.439 --> 00:02:39.139 practice. It's less theory, more direct clinical 00:02:39.139 --> 00:02:41.759 application. You're doing supervised hours, learning 00:02:41.759 --> 00:02:44.360 specialized techniques for intervening in really 00:02:44.360 --> 00:02:46.539 complex situations. So she wasn't just reading 00:02:46.539 --> 00:02:49.659 about conflict. No, no. She was trained rigorously 00:02:49.659 --> 00:02:52.580 to be in the room, to sit with couples, families 00:02:52.580 --> 00:02:55.819 facing deep, messy conflict, to figure out the 00:02:55.819 --> 00:02:58.919 hidden motivations, the subtext, and guide these 00:02:58.919 --> 00:03:01.219 often conflicting stories toward some kind of 00:03:01.219 --> 00:03:03.099 resolution. Okay, now I see the connection to 00:03:03.099 --> 00:03:05.120 screenwriting starting to click. Exactly. Because 00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:07.219 screenwriters deal with conflicting narratives 00:03:07.219 --> 00:03:10.099 all the time, right? Character arcs, motivations, 00:03:10.379 --> 00:03:12.360 resolving conflict authentically. She'd already 00:03:12.360 --> 00:03:16.020 mastered that. But in real life, high stakes. 00:03:16.240 --> 00:03:19.080 Precisely. Her expertise wasn't just, like, general 00:03:19.080 --> 00:03:22.300 psych. It was dissecting intimacy. Understanding 00:03:22.300 --> 00:03:24.659 what's really being said under the surface dialogue, 00:03:24.840 --> 00:03:28.180 how people's pasts, their traumas affect how 00:03:28.180 --> 00:03:31.300 they relate now. That kind of knowledge gives 00:03:31.300 --> 00:03:35.199 her writing this. Built in depth and emotional 00:03:35.199 --> 00:03:37.659 architecture. Which would be hard to just fake 00:03:37.659 --> 00:03:39.719 if you didn't have that background. Very hard. 00:03:39.800 --> 00:03:41.979 And she actually practiced. Sources confirmed 00:03:41.979 --> 00:03:44.439 she was a therapist for five years, roughly 2004 00:03:44.439 --> 00:03:47.639 to 2009. But what's also interesting is how much 00:03:47.639 --> 00:03:49.460 she moved around during that time. Yeah, that 00:03:49.460 --> 00:03:51.800 caught my eye too. For a clinical practice, moving 00:03:51.800 --> 00:03:54.819 seems disruptive. It is. Licenses, building new 00:03:54.819 --> 00:03:57.789 client bases. It's a whole thing. But she started 00:03:57.789 --> 00:03:59.849 in North Carolina, 2004, probably right after 00:03:59.849 --> 00:04:01.689 finishing the degrees. Makes sense. Then, boom, 00:04:01.750 --> 00:04:04.849 2005, she's in Chicago. Two years later, 2007, 00:04:05.250 --> 00:04:08.069 she moves again. Yeah. Brooklyn, New York. Wow. 00:04:08.689 --> 00:04:11.669 North Carolina, Chicago, Brooklyn. Three really 00:04:11.669 --> 00:04:13.789 different places, different environments in just 00:04:13.789 --> 00:04:16.750 five years, all while running a therapy practice. 00:04:17.129 --> 00:04:18.910 It suggests maybe she was searching for something 00:04:18.910 --> 00:04:22.079 or just very ambitious, maybe restless. In her 00:04:22.079 --> 00:04:24.600 20s. And that search seems to land somewhere 00:04:24.600 --> 00:04:28.379 around 2009, 2010. Because that's when the Serapy 00:04:28.379 --> 00:04:30.279 career stops, right? That's the pivot point. 00:04:30.459 --> 00:04:33.660 Yeah. The move to Los Angeles around then marks 00:04:33.660 --> 00:04:36.120 the complete shift. She basically puts her license 00:04:36.120 --> 00:04:38.579 on the shelf, leaves that established career 00:04:38.579 --> 00:04:41.180 behind. Which is a huge risk. A massive risk. 00:04:41.399 --> 00:04:44.800 Yeah. To pursue writing and comedy full time. 00:04:44.879 --> 00:04:47.279 Think about it. She arrives in L .A. with this 00:04:47.279 --> 00:04:49.939 incredible toolkit, dormant therapy license, 00:04:50.160 --> 00:04:53.160 a brain trained in deep human psychology, years 00:04:53.160 --> 00:04:55.439 of diagnosing relationship issues. Yeah. That's 00:04:55.439 --> 00:04:57.759 not your typical aspiring comedy writer's background. 00:04:57.860 --> 00:04:59.600 It's like having a secret weapon for storytelling. 00:04:59.860 --> 00:05:02.120 Okay. So she gets to L .A., ready to use this 00:05:02.120 --> 00:05:04.500 unique background. How does she actually break 00:05:04.500 --> 00:05:06.199 into the comedy world? It wasn't like she just 00:05:06.199 --> 00:05:08.500 sent in a script, right? No. Definitely not a 00:05:08.500 --> 00:05:10.699 gentle entry. She started laying the groundwork 00:05:10.699 --> 00:05:13.019 even back in New York while she was still technically 00:05:13.019 --> 00:05:15.420 practicing. She seemed to realize, okay, if I 00:05:15.420 --> 00:05:17.980 want to do creative stuff, I need to understand 00:05:17.980 --> 00:05:20.720 how the business works first. Smart. So while 00:05:20.720 --> 00:05:23.180 she was in Brooklyn, sources say she worked at 00:05:23.180 --> 00:05:26.319 the Comics Comedy Club. And she was already producing 00:05:26.319 --> 00:05:28.740 a live show there with Pete Holmes. Right. So 00:05:28.740 --> 00:05:30.860 she's immediately getting hands on logistics, 00:05:31.399 --> 00:05:34.540 audience, what makes a live show tick. Exactly. 00:05:34.740 --> 00:05:37.699 Learning the rhythm, the flow, how to handle 00:05:37.699 --> 00:05:40.639 performers, which, you know, probably wasn't 00:05:40.639 --> 00:05:44.040 that different from handling complex family dynamics 00:05:44.040 --> 00:05:47.399 sometimes. Yeah, maybe. That experience, understanding 00:05:47.399 --> 00:05:49.899 the mechanics, became super important when she 00:05:49.899 --> 00:05:53.129 finally landed in L .A. in 2010. She basically 00:05:53.129 --> 00:05:55.790 swapped managing emotional logistics for managing 00:05:55.790 --> 00:05:58.069 stand -up logistics. And that led straight to 00:05:58.069 --> 00:06:00.069 the meltdown with Jonah and Kumail, didn't it? 00:06:00.089 --> 00:06:02.490 That show became such a cornerstone of the L 00:06:02.490 --> 00:06:04.810 .A. scene. It really did. Co -created it in 2010. 00:06:05.310 --> 00:06:07.629 Famously held in the back room of Meltdown Comics 00:06:07.629 --> 00:06:10.589 in Hollywood. That venue became legendary. But 00:06:10.589 --> 00:06:13.350 her role was key. She wasn't just a co -creator 00:06:13.350 --> 00:06:16.629 in name. She was the producer and, critically, 00:06:16.889 --> 00:06:19.180 the booker. Let's talk about what that actually 00:06:19.180 --> 00:06:21.620 means in that context. Yeah. Booking and producing 00:06:21.620 --> 00:06:24.139 a weekly show like that, it's more than just 00:06:24.139 --> 00:06:26.160 making calls, right? Oh, absolutely. Booking 00:06:26.160 --> 00:06:28.439 is high -speed relationship management. You have 00:06:28.439 --> 00:06:30.819 to spot talent, convince them to play your room 00:06:30.819 --> 00:06:34.279 often for little money, build a vibe, keep comedians 00:06:34.279 --> 00:06:36.360 happy, keep audiences coming back week after 00:06:36.360 --> 00:06:39.439 week. A curator, really. Exactly. And producing. 00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:43.339 That's managing chaos, especially in a nontraditional 00:06:43.339 --> 00:06:46.379 space like a comic book store back room, quality 00:06:46.379 --> 00:06:48.600 control, atmosphere, making sure the show actually 00:06:48.600 --> 00:06:50.800 happens. She was building a brand, a community 00:06:50.800 --> 00:06:52.899 from the ground up. And people notice pretty 00:06:52.899 --> 00:06:56.540 quickly because by 2011, Chris Hardwick taps 00:06:56.540 --> 00:06:58.899 her for something bigger. Yeah, Hardwick, whose 00:06:58.899 --> 00:07:02.230 whole nerdist empire was exploding then. He asked 00:07:02.230 --> 00:07:04.310 her to be the program director for the new Nerdist 00:07:04.310 --> 00:07:06.829 showroom at Meltdown Comics. So stepping up from 00:07:06.829 --> 00:07:08.889 one show to overseeing the whole comedy schedule 00:07:08.889 --> 00:07:12.069 for that venue. For about a year, 2011 to 2012, 00:07:12.389 --> 00:07:15.430 it shows she had serious administrative and directorial 00:07:15.430 --> 00:07:18.350 chops, not just creative ideas. Managing the 00:07:18.350 --> 00:07:20.430 business and the art, that's a big deal. And 00:07:20.430 --> 00:07:23.430 that success, managing the live venue, directly 00:07:23.430 --> 00:07:25.990 feeds into the next step, taking the Meltdown 00:07:25.990 --> 00:07:28.990 to TV. Comedy Central orders a pilot in 2014. 00:07:29.170 --> 00:07:31.290 Right. And when the series launches in 2014, 00:07:31.610 --> 00:07:34.430 she's credited as an executive producer. Not 00:07:34.430 --> 00:07:37.230 just a consultant, but an e -key. That's a significant 00:07:37.230 --> 00:07:39.970 title change. It is. It shows she could translate 00:07:39.970 --> 00:07:43.189 that grassroots indie vibe she built into something 00:07:43.189 --> 00:07:45.490 that worked for network television standards. 00:07:45.730 --> 00:07:48.430 She could scale her production skills. That established 00:07:48.430 --> 00:07:51.009 her as a series producer. What's really interesting, 00:07:51.069 --> 00:07:52.529 though, is that while she's building this whole 00:07:52.529 --> 00:07:54.769 production side, booking shows, running venues, 00:07:54.910 --> 00:07:58.569 exec producing, she's also writing on very different 00:07:58.569 --> 00:08:00.329 kinds of projects. Yeah, the diversification 00:08:00.329 --> 00:08:03.689 is impressive, shows real ambition. On the TV 00:08:03.689 --> 00:08:06.410 side, she was a staff writer for season two of 00:08:06.410 --> 00:08:08.649 The Carmichael Show on NBC. Right, I saw that. 00:08:08.689 --> 00:08:10.670 She wrote the episode New Neighbor. Yeah. Okay, 00:08:10.750 --> 00:08:15.370 so working on a network sitcom staff, what does 00:08:15.370 --> 00:08:17.579 that signal? Especially compared to the indie 00:08:17.579 --> 00:08:19.540 comedy she was producing. It shows she could 00:08:19.540 --> 00:08:23.240 handle structure. Network sitcoms have a pretty 00:08:23.240 --> 00:08:26.339 specific rhythm, four acts, hitting certain beats, 00:08:26.600 --> 00:08:29.420 working within network constraints. It's collaborative, 00:08:29.740 --> 00:08:31.699 often intense. Very different from booking a 00:08:31.699 --> 00:08:33.700 loose live show. Totally different skill set. 00:08:33.879 --> 00:08:36.299 It proves she could master traditional narrative 00:08:36.299 --> 00:08:39.639 pacing, write tight dialogue. It's about economy 00:08:39.639 --> 00:08:41.840 and hitting the marks. But then completely different 00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:44.019 vibe. She was also writing web series for Disney 00:08:44.019 --> 00:08:47.740 .com aimed at teens. Yep. Two of them, power 00:08:47.740 --> 00:08:50.240 up and explore it. So now she's adapting to yet 00:08:50.240 --> 00:08:52.639 another audience, another tone, different pacing 00:08:52.639 --> 00:08:55.659 entirely. Writing for Disney teens is worlds 00:08:55.659 --> 00:08:57.559 away from the Carmichael show or the meltdown. 00:08:57.700 --> 00:08:59.700 She's proving she's incredibly flexible as a 00:08:59.700 --> 00:09:01.980 writer. Exactly. Broadcast sitcom structure, 00:09:02.299 --> 00:09:05.100 live indie comedy curation, fast -paced digital 00:09:05.100 --> 00:09:07.960 content for kids. She's covering a lot of ground. 00:09:08.159 --> 00:09:09.799 Which kind of perfectly sets up her first book, 00:09:09.820 --> 00:09:11.620 doesn't it, in 2015? It feels like a bridge. 00:09:11.899 --> 00:09:14.820 It does. Super you. Release your inner superhero. 00:09:15.100 --> 00:09:17.259 Yeah. Even the title kind of hints at merging 00:09:17.259 --> 00:09:19.460 her worlds. Yeah. Self -improvement therapist 00:09:19.460 --> 00:09:22.659 voice. Tongue -in -cheek comedy voice. Precisely 00:09:22.659 --> 00:09:25.279 how the sources describe it. A tongue -in -cheek 00:09:25.279 --> 00:09:28.200 self -improvement guide. Released just two years 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:30.279 before The Big Sick. It's like the first big 00:09:30.279 --> 00:09:33.200 public project where she explicitly takes her 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:36.200 psychology background and filters it through 00:09:36.200 --> 00:09:39.299 the comedic sensibility she'd been honing. It's 00:09:39.299 --> 00:09:41.519 her showing, okay, I can package this unique 00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:43.399 background creatively and make it accessible. 00:09:44.320 --> 00:09:46.960 Monetizing that blend. before the movie hit big. 00:09:47.039 --> 00:09:49.919 Okay, so all this experience, the therapy training, 00:09:50.179 --> 00:09:53.059 the comedy production, the varied writing gigs, 00:09:53.200 --> 00:09:56.159 it all seems to funnel into this one huge project, 00:09:56.460 --> 00:09:59.980 The Big Sick. It really feels like the ultimate 00:09:59.980 --> 00:10:02.039 synthesis, doesn't it? Co -written, co -exec 00:10:02.039 --> 00:10:04.960 produced with Nanjiani. And its power comes from 00:10:04.960 --> 00:10:08.080 being so raw, so explicitly based on how the 00:10:08.080 --> 00:10:10.500 relationship started. That blend of culture clash, 00:10:10.759 --> 00:10:13.120 sudden illness, love story. It's potent stuff. 00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:15.120 And the way they chose to tell it is interesting, 00:10:15.200 --> 00:10:18.039 too. Kumail plays himself, essentially. But Gordon, 00:10:18.139 --> 00:10:20.720 writing about herself, they renamed the character 00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:24.659 Emily Gardner and cast Zoe Kazan. Which must 00:10:24.659 --> 00:10:27.279 have provided some necessary distance creatively. 00:10:27.600 --> 00:10:30.320 You'd think so. Writing something so personal, 00:10:30.440 --> 00:10:32.840 that fictional layer probably helps maintain 00:10:32.840 --> 00:10:35.460 objectivity, allows you to treat the character 00:10:35.460 --> 00:10:39.279 as a character, give her an arc, conflict, not 00:10:39.279 --> 00:10:41.620 just transcribe your diary. Makes sense. Plus, 00:10:41.639 --> 00:10:44.700 having Michael Showalter directing and Judd Apatow 00:10:44.700 --> 00:10:48.669 producing, that's serious support. Apatow especially 00:10:48.669 --> 00:10:52.129 loved that blend of raw honesty and comedy. And 00:10:52.129 --> 00:10:53.929 the film wasn't just popular, it was critically 00:10:53.929 --> 00:10:56.429 adored, especially the writing, which brings 00:10:56.429 --> 00:10:58.710 us to all those awards. Yeah, the screenplay 00:10:58.710 --> 00:11:00.990 recognition is where you really see her achievement 00:11:00.990 --> 00:11:03.450 crystallize. Yeah. The absolute peak, obviously, 00:11:03.549 --> 00:11:06.110 is the 2018 Oscar nomination for Best Original 00:11:06.110 --> 00:11:08.710 Screenplay. Puts her in the top tier. Globally. 00:11:08.830 --> 00:11:10.809 Instantly. Yeah. But let's break down some of 00:11:10.809 --> 00:11:12.450 the other awards, too, because they highlight 00:11:12.450 --> 00:11:14.929 different aspects of the script's quality, like 00:11:14.929 --> 00:11:16.889 winning the Independent Spirit Award for Best 00:11:16.889 --> 00:11:19.129 First Screenplay. What does that one signify, 00:11:19.169 --> 00:11:21.870 specifically? The Spirit Awards are all about 00:11:21.870 --> 00:11:25.169 celebrating unique, independent voices. Stuff 00:11:25.169 --> 00:11:28.789 outside the big studio system. Winning Best First 00:11:28.789 --> 00:11:31.490 Screenplay there means the indie film community 00:11:31.490 --> 00:11:34.009 recognized something genuinely fresh and vital 00:11:34.009 --> 00:11:36.649 in their writing. It wasn't just competent. It 00:11:36.649 --> 00:11:39.090 was original. An endorsement of their specific 00:11:39.090 --> 00:11:41.769 unconventional story. Exactly. Then you have 00:11:41.769 --> 00:11:44.049 the peer awards, like the Writers Guild of America 00:11:44.049 --> 00:11:46.649 nomination. The WGA not, that's writers recognizing 00:11:46.649 --> 00:11:49.889 writers. And that's huge. It means the people 00:11:49.889 --> 00:11:52.129 who actually do this for a living, who know how 00:11:52.129 --> 00:11:54.710 hard it is to structure a story like that, blending 00:11:54.710 --> 00:11:57.190 comedy, medical drama, cultural commentary. Yeah, 00:11:57.190 --> 00:11:58.789 it's a tricky balance. They saw the craft in 00:11:58.789 --> 00:12:00.970 it. That's a massive compliment from your peers. 00:12:01.230 --> 00:12:03.870 And beyond the industry awards, the critics just 00:12:03.870 --> 00:12:05.889 seemed universally on board. It wasn't just New 00:12:05.889 --> 00:12:09.250 York and L .A. It was... The source list is kind 00:12:09.250 --> 00:12:12.289 of staggering. Nominated for Gotham Awards, Critics' 00:12:12.289 --> 00:12:14.889 Choice Movie Awards. Those are big precursors. 00:12:15.009 --> 00:12:17.470 But then you see Austin Film Critics, Chicago, 00:12:17.809 --> 00:12:20.809 Detroit, San Diego, San Francisco, Seattle, St. 00:12:20.929 --> 00:12:23.750 Louis, D .C. area critics. It's like a roll call. 00:12:24.009 --> 00:12:26.230 It really is. Yeah. And what that tells you is 00:12:26.230 --> 00:12:29.230 the script resonated broadly. It wasn't seen 00:12:29.230 --> 00:12:32.470 as just a niche indie or a rom -com. It hit something 00:12:32.470 --> 00:12:35.840 universal. about relationships family crisis 00:12:35.840 --> 00:12:38.500 which again you could argue goes back to her 00:12:38.500 --> 00:12:41.419 unique training i think it absolutely does yeah 00:12:41.419 --> 00:12:44.559 that ability to structure the messy parts of 00:12:44.559 --> 00:12:46.899 human connection the cultural tensions the fear 00:12:46.899 --> 00:12:50.519 she could articulate that with a clarity that 00:12:50.519 --> 00:12:53.460 came from years of well analyzing it professionally 00:12:53.460 --> 00:12:56.809 made it feel real to everyone so To really get 00:12:56.809 --> 00:12:58.950 why the script felt so authentic, we need to 00:12:58.950 --> 00:13:01.330 go back to the actual events it's based on, starting 00:13:01.330 --> 00:13:03.710 with how she and Kumail even met. Right. The 00:13:03.710 --> 00:13:05.929 origin story itself is pretty charming, very 00:13:05.929 --> 00:13:08.289 well -fitting. Yeah. They met at a comedy show 00:13:08.289 --> 00:13:10.110 in Chicago. He was performing stand -up. She 00:13:10.110 --> 00:13:12.350 was in the audience. Yeah. And apparently she 00:13:12.350 --> 00:13:15.529 lightly heckled him. Huh. Seriously. That's how 00:13:15.529 --> 00:13:17.509 they met. And that's the story. Yeah. Which is 00:13:17.509 --> 00:13:19.649 kind of perfect, right? For a future therapist 00:13:19.649 --> 00:13:22.799 -turned -comedy writer marrying a comedian. Shows 00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:25.320 her personality engaged, quick -witted, not afraid 00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:27.080 to jump in. Definitely. And they started dating 00:13:27.080 --> 00:13:30.200 soon after. Pretty quickly, yeah. But then the 00:13:30.200 --> 00:13:33.980 story takes that incredibly dramatic turn. This 00:13:33.980 --> 00:13:36.919 is the heart of The Big Sick. The illness. Yeah. 00:13:37.419 --> 00:13:40.080 Not long after they started dating, she got incredibly 00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:44.080 sick. Really suddenly. Really severely. It escalated 00:13:44.080 --> 00:13:45.759 quickly to the point where she had to be put 00:13:45.759 --> 00:13:48.799 into a medically induced coma. God, that's terrifying. 00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:50.759 Especially for a new relationship. It's an almost 00:13:50.759 --> 00:13:53.460 unimaginable pressure cooker. He's suddenly dealing 00:13:53.460 --> 00:13:56.159 with doctors, life or death decisions, and her 00:13:56.159 --> 00:13:58.980 parents, who he barely knows. All while she's 00:13:58.980 --> 00:14:01.399 completely unconscious. And the diagnosis eventually 00:14:01.399 --> 00:14:04.279 came back as Still's disease. That's right. Adult 00:14:04.279 --> 00:14:07.889 -onset Still's disease. a serious systemic inflammatory 00:14:07.889 --> 00:14:11.029 condition chronic the irony is just staggering 00:14:11.029 --> 00:14:14.009 here she is trained to analyze relationship dynamics 00:14:14.009 --> 00:14:16.289 under pressure and she's suddenly the center 00:14:16.289 --> 00:14:18.950 of the most extreme version imaginable total 00:14:18.950 --> 00:14:21.450 loss of control dependent on this new partner 00:14:21.450 --> 00:14:24.029 she became the case study in a way And the crisis 00:14:24.029 --> 00:14:26.269 wasn't just medical. It forced all these cultural 00:14:26.269 --> 00:14:28.669 issues and family dynamics out into the open 00:14:28.669 --> 00:14:30.990 for Nanjiani and her parents. Intense vulnerability 00:14:30.990 --> 00:14:33.850 all around. But she did recover. It took time, 00:14:33.850 --> 00:14:35.830 though. About three months, the sources say, 00:14:35.929 --> 00:14:38.389 for the initial recovery. And you can see how 00:14:38.389 --> 00:14:40.669 going through something like that together would 00:14:40.669 --> 00:14:42.909 accelerate a relationship. For sure. They got 00:14:42.909 --> 00:14:46.029 married in 2007. which was only about a year 00:14:46.029 --> 00:14:48.570 after they first met in Chicago, that shared 00:14:48.570 --> 00:14:51.470 trauma often cements things very quickly. The 00:14:51.470 --> 00:14:53.289 sources also mentioned this was her second marriage. 00:14:53.389 --> 00:14:56.350 Yes, that's confirmed. Adds another layer, perhaps, 00:14:56.509 --> 00:14:58.850 to her understanding of relationships and commitment. 00:14:59.129 --> 00:15:02.149 And remember, before they settled in L .A., they 00:15:02.149 --> 00:15:04.309 lived together through those moves. Chicago, 00:15:04.809 --> 00:15:07.129 then New York. So bringing back to the work, 00:15:07.269 --> 00:15:09.970 she had the therapist's toolkit, the analytical 00:15:09.970 --> 00:15:12.470 skills, the empathy, the understanding of dynamics. 00:15:12.590 --> 00:15:15.179 Right. And then life hands her this incredibly 00:15:15.179 --> 00:15:18.340 intense personal crisis. That becomes the raw 00:15:18.340 --> 00:15:20.200 material. It's the perfect storm, creatively. 00:15:20.440 --> 00:15:22.440 Her professional training gave her the framework 00:15:22.440 --> 00:15:25.200 to understand and structure the chaos. And the 00:15:25.200 --> 00:15:27.659 personal chaos gave her this powerful, authentic 00:15:27.659 --> 00:15:30.259 story to tell. She wasn't just writing a movie. 00:15:30.320 --> 00:15:32.759 She was processing her own survival through the 00:15:32.759 --> 00:15:35.250 lens of her expertise. And that combination, 00:15:35.470 --> 00:15:38.149 that specific blend of insight and experience 00:15:38.149 --> 00:15:41.110 is what made The Big Sick resonate so deeply. 00:15:41.309 --> 00:15:44.570 It had that rare mix of comedy and profound understanding 00:15:44.570 --> 00:15:47.830 of, well, suffering and love. Exactly. A very 00:15:47.830 --> 00:15:50.029 distinctive voice emerged from that crucible. 00:15:50.379 --> 00:15:53.100 But the big sick, while obviously huge, wasn't 00:15:53.100 --> 00:15:55.059 the end of the story. Her career kept evolving. 00:15:55.419 --> 00:15:58.539 She's become this sustained creative force, moving 00:15:58.539 --> 00:16:01.799 into bigger producing roles, continuing podcasting. 00:16:01.820 --> 00:16:04.000 Absolutely. She didn't just rest on the Oscar 00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:06.279 nomination. The podcasting, for instance, seems 00:16:06.279 --> 00:16:09.019 like a consistent space for her and Angiani to 00:16:09.019 --> 00:16:11.379 collaborate and sort of workshop their dynamic 00:16:11.379 --> 00:16:14.039 publicly. Like the indoor kids way back from 00:16:14.039 --> 00:16:17.000 2011 to 2015 on Nerdist. Right. And the way it's 00:16:17.000 --> 00:16:19.659 described is interesting. Focused on video games, 00:16:19.740 --> 00:16:22.059 but not exclusively. Yeah, I noticed that phrasing, 00:16:22.059 --> 00:16:24.059 like using games as a jumping off point. Seems 00:16:24.059 --> 00:16:26.500 like their pattern uses specific topic games 00:16:26.500 --> 00:16:29.779 or later the pandemic as a way into talking about 00:16:29.779 --> 00:16:32.340 bigger things, relationships, anxieties, culture. 00:16:32.809 --> 00:16:35.190 Which they did again in 2020 with staying in 00:16:35.190 --> 00:16:37.549 with Emily and Kumail. Totally. That one was 00:16:37.549 --> 00:16:39.870 explicitly about lockdown, the COVID quarantine 00:16:39.870 --> 00:16:42.889 experience. Turning that shared global anxiety 00:16:42.889 --> 00:16:44.929 into something relatable, funny, analytical. 00:16:45.110 --> 00:16:47.070 Yeah. Very much their style. Using their own 00:16:47.070 --> 00:16:49.870 lives again. But importantly, beyond those projects 00:16:49.870 --> 00:16:52.750 with Kumail, she's really solidified her role 00:16:52.750 --> 00:16:55.230 as a major executive producer in her own right. 00:16:55.389 --> 00:16:57.889 That feels like a significant shift in her industry 00:16:57.889 --> 00:17:00.610 standing. It's a clear leveling up. From booking 00:17:00.610 --> 00:17:03.629 indie shows to running major TV productions, 00:17:03.870 --> 00:17:06.049 look at Little America. The anthology series, 00:17:06.250 --> 00:17:09.690 yeah. 2020 to 2022. She's credited as co -creator 00:17:09.690 --> 00:17:12.569 and executive producer for 16 episodes. Co -creator 00:17:12.569 --> 00:17:14.670 means she's in on the ground floor, shaping the 00:17:14.670 --> 00:17:16.869 whole thing. EP means she's managing it long 00:17:16.869 --> 00:17:19.069 -term budgets, staffing, creative oversight. 00:17:19.349 --> 00:17:21.890 That's serious managerial responsibility. Way 00:17:21.890 --> 00:17:24.049 beyond just writing. Definitely. And then shifting 00:17:24.049 --> 00:17:26.609 gears completely, she executive produced Welcome 00:17:26.609 --> 00:17:29.799 to Chippendales in 2022. Six episodes. Now that's 00:17:29.799 --> 00:17:31.819 interesting. A true crime story about power, 00:17:31.960 --> 00:17:35.019 ego, toxic masculinity. Why bring her in as an 00:17:35.019 --> 00:17:37.220 EP? Well, think about it. What's that story fundamentally 00:17:37.220 --> 00:17:40.200 about? Relationships, right. Dysfunctional ones. 00:17:40.579 --> 00:17:44.650 Power dynamics. Insecurity. Exactly. Her background 00:17:44.650 --> 00:17:47.349 in diagnosing relational pathology, understanding 00:17:47.349 --> 00:17:50.390 complex dynamics, spotting the underlying issues, 00:17:50.650 --> 00:17:53.069 it's actually perfectly suited for guiding a 00:17:53.069 --> 00:17:55.829 dramatic narrative like that. It shows the industry 00:17:55.829 --> 00:17:58.970 sees her value beyond just the writer of The 00:17:58.970 --> 00:18:01.569 Big Sick. They see her as a structural thinker 00:18:01.569 --> 00:18:03.769 for complex character stories, no matter the 00:18:03.769 --> 00:18:06.410 genre. I think so. And she's still doing traditional 00:18:06.410 --> 00:18:08.609 writing work, too, like being on staff for season 00:18:08.609 --> 00:18:11.089 two of HBO's Crashing. Right. Contributed to 00:18:11.089 --> 00:18:13.309 eight episodes there, keeping her hand in the 00:18:13.309 --> 00:18:15.430 writer's room. Maintains those connections, keeps 00:18:15.430 --> 00:18:17.769 those skills sharp. And then looking forward, 00:18:17.869 --> 00:18:20.329 she's moving into high profile adaptation work. 00:18:20.430 --> 00:18:23.150 The project with Amazon Films, adapting Cynthia 00:18:23.150 --> 00:18:26.829 Daybrick Sweeney's novel The Nest. Exactly. Adapting 00:18:26.829 --> 00:18:29.569 a beloved complex novel like The Nest, which 00:18:29.569 --> 00:18:31.930 is all about messy family dynamics and money. 00:18:32.619 --> 00:18:34.380 That's a big responsibility. You have to streamline 00:18:34.380 --> 00:18:37.400 it for film, but keep the core intact. And she's 00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:39.240 working with big -name producers on that too, 00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:42.359 Joey Soloway and Andrea Sperling. Yeah. It really 00:18:42.359 --> 00:18:44.539 shows how far she's come, from adapting her own 00:18:44.539 --> 00:18:47.400 life story to being entrusted with adapting acclaimed 00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:50.640 literary fiction. The industry clearly trusts 00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:52.980 her narrative and analytical skills at a very 00:18:52.980 --> 00:18:54.720 high level now. So when you look back at the 00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:58.220 whole arc, the specialized therapy degrees, running 00:18:58.220 --> 00:19:00.500 the door at a comedy show, the Oscar nomination, 00:19:00.900 --> 00:19:03.599 now producing... major series and adaptations. 00:19:04.119 --> 00:19:06.740 It's just, wow, such an unconventional route 00:19:06.740 --> 00:19:09.940 to massive creative success. The key takeaway 00:19:09.940 --> 00:19:12.279 really is that integration, isn't it? She didn't 00:19:12.279 --> 00:19:13.819 just switch careers. She brought the old one 00:19:13.819 --> 00:19:16.190 into the new one. That deep knowledge of human 00:19:16.190 --> 00:19:18.750 behavior, conflict, empathy skills from therapy, 00:19:18.910 --> 00:19:21.670 they became the bedrock for her writing and producing. 00:19:21.930 --> 00:19:24.049 It wasn't accidental. She seemed to intentionally 00:19:24.049 --> 00:19:26.230 leverage her background, even the trauma, but 00:19:26.230 --> 00:19:28.450 structure it using her analytical skills. Right. 00:19:28.549 --> 00:19:31.089 It wasn't just raw emotion. It was structured, 00:19:31.210 --> 00:19:34.309 analyzed emotion, which suggests that maybe the 00:19:34.309 --> 00:19:36.990 most solid analytical training can actually fuel 00:19:36.990 --> 00:19:39.490 the most powerful creative work. So the question 00:19:39.490 --> 00:19:42.839 for you listening might be this. What unique 00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:45.420 expertise do you have from some other part of 00:19:45.420 --> 00:19:49.380 your life? Maybe a past job, a weird hobby, some 00:19:49.380 --> 00:19:51.460 deep training that you're currently overlooking. 00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:54.640 Yeah. Are there analytical tools or frameworks 00:19:54.640 --> 00:19:56.980 you learned for one thing that could actually 00:19:56.980 --> 00:19:59.819 structure your creative pursuits? Or maybe it's 00:19:59.819 --> 00:20:01.200 the other way around. Can you take some deep 00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:04.339 life experience you have and apply a more professional 00:20:04.339 --> 00:20:07.160 analytical lens to it the way Gordon used her 00:20:07.160 --> 00:20:09.140 clinical training to shape her personal story? 00:20:09.480 --> 00:20:11.619 It really makes you think. Maybe your biggest 00:20:11.619 --> 00:20:13.559 creative asset isn't something new you need to 00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:15.619 learn but some strange expertise you've already 00:20:15.619 --> 00:20:18.680 got filed away. Find that intersection. That's 00:20:18.680 --> 00:20:19.880 where the breakthroughs seem to happen.