Welcome back to the Deep Dive. Today we're looking
at a career path that, well, it really shows
how combining different kinds of expertise can
lead to something amazing. Yeah, we're talking
about Emily V. Gordon, American writer, producer,
host. Her story is just fascinating, a real study
in professional transformation. Totally, because
it's not like a straight line, is it? Not at
all. What's so compelling here is this sharp
turn she took. I mean, she was a practicing family
therapist. That's, you know, analytical, structured
work. Right. And then she pivots hard into comedy
production. And eventually, you know, Oscar -nominated
screenwriting is quite the jump. That jump from
the therapy room to the writer's room, that's
what we're digging into today. We've gone through
her education, her clinical work, her time in
the L .A. comedy scene, all her production stuff.
Yeah, lots to unpack. Our mission really is to
trace the specifics, the details, the people
she worked with that allowed her to take these
incredibly personal, even traumatic moments and
turn them into art that, well, everyone acclaimed.
Universal stuff. And you really have to start
with the big one, right? The anchor for this
whole conversation is The Big Sick, 2017. Co
-written, co -executive produced with Kumail
Nanjiani. Exactly. Yeah. And it's just the perfect
storm of her analytical mind, her comedy timing,
and this intense personal experience. That film
wasn't just her big break. No. It cemented her.
Independent Spirit Award and, crucially, that
Academy Award nomination for Best Original Screenplay.
That's where she landed. But where she started
is miles away. Okay, let's start there then.
This foundation seems... Well, unexpected for
where she ended up. Just looking at her degrees,
you'd think, OK, career therapist. It does look
that way. But I think the type of therapy training
is actually key. So Emily V. Gordon, born May
3, 1979, grew up in Winston -Salem, North Carolina.
OK. Her first degree, B .A. in psychology from
East Carolina University. Pretty standard path
if you're interested in human behavior. Establishes
that basic understanding. But then she really
doubles down on the clinical side. The advanced
degrees are super specialized. Oh, absolutely.
She didn't just get a master's. She got an MS,
Master of Science, and an EDS, an education specialist
degree, both in couples and family counseling
from UNC Greensboro. Okay, wait. Both an MS and
an EDS, specifically in couples and family work.
What does that tell us? The combination sounds
pretty intense. It really is significant, especially
the EDS. So EMS gives you the theory, right?
The science, the why behind relationship dynamics.
Right. But the EES, that's often more about advanced
practice. It's less theory, more direct clinical
application. You're doing supervised hours, learning
specialized techniques for intervening in really
complex situations. So she wasn't just reading
about conflict. No, no. She was trained rigorously
to be in the room, to sit with couples, families
facing deep, messy conflict, to figure out the
hidden motivations, the subtext, and guide these
often conflicting stories toward some kind of
resolution. Okay, now I see the connection to
screenwriting starting to click. Exactly. Because
screenwriters deal with conflicting narratives
all the time, right? Character arcs, motivations,
resolving conflict authentically. She'd already
mastered that. But in real life, high stakes.
Precisely. Her expertise wasn't just, like, general
psych. It was dissecting intimacy. Understanding
what's really being said under the surface dialogue,
how people's pasts, their traumas affect how
they relate now. That kind of knowledge gives
her writing this. Built in depth and emotional
architecture. Which would be hard to just fake
if you didn't have that background. Very hard.
And she actually practiced. Sources confirmed
she was a therapist for five years, roughly 2004
to 2009. But what's also interesting is how much
she moved around during that time. Yeah, that
caught my eye too. For a clinical practice, moving
seems disruptive. It is. Licenses, building new
client bases. It's a whole thing. But she started
in North Carolina, 2004, probably right after
finishing the degrees. Makes sense. Then, boom,
2005, she's in Chicago. Two years later, 2007,
she moves again. Yeah. Brooklyn, New York. Wow.
North Carolina, Chicago, Brooklyn. Three really
different places, different environments in just
five years, all while running a therapy practice.
It suggests maybe she was searching for something
or just very ambitious, maybe restless. In her
20s. And that search seems to land somewhere
around 2009, 2010. Because that's when the Serapy
career stops, right? That's the pivot point.
Yeah. The move to Los Angeles around then marks
the complete shift. She basically puts her license
on the shelf, leaves that established career
behind. Which is a huge risk. A massive risk.
Yeah. To pursue writing and comedy full time.
Think about it. She arrives in L .A. with this
incredible toolkit, dormant therapy license,
a brain trained in deep human psychology, years
of diagnosing relationship issues. Yeah. That's
not your typical aspiring comedy writer's background.
It's like having a secret weapon for storytelling.
Okay. So she gets to L .A., ready to use this
unique background. How does she actually break
into the comedy world? It wasn't like she just
sent in a script, right? No. Definitely not a
gentle entry. She started laying the groundwork
even back in New York while she was still technically
practicing. She seemed to realize, okay, if I
want to do creative stuff, I need to understand
how the business works first. Smart. So while
she was in Brooklyn, sources say she worked at
the Comics Comedy Club. And she was already producing
a live show there with Pete Holmes. Right. So
she's immediately getting hands on logistics,
audience, what makes a live show tick. Exactly.
Learning the rhythm, the flow, how to handle
performers, which, you know, probably wasn't
that different from handling complex family dynamics
sometimes. Yeah, maybe. That experience, understanding
the mechanics, became super important when she
finally landed in L .A. in 2010. She basically
swapped managing emotional logistics for managing
stand -up logistics. And that led straight to
the meltdown with Jonah and Kumail, didn't it?
That show became such a cornerstone of the L
.A. scene. It really did. Co -created it in 2010.
Famously held in the back room of Meltdown Comics
in Hollywood. That venue became legendary. But
her role was key. She wasn't just a co -creator
in name. She was the producer and, critically,
the booker. Let's talk about what that actually
means in that context. Yeah. Booking and producing
a weekly show like that, it's more than just
making calls, right? Oh, absolutely. Booking
is high -speed relationship management. You have
to spot talent, convince them to play your room
often for little money, build a vibe, keep comedians
happy, keep audiences coming back week after
week. A curator, really. Exactly. And producing.
That's managing chaos, especially in a nontraditional
space like a comic book store back room, quality
control, atmosphere, making sure the show actually
happens. She was building a brand, a community
from the ground up. And people notice pretty
quickly because by 2011, Chris Hardwick taps
her for something bigger. Yeah, Hardwick, whose
whole nerdist empire was exploding then. He asked
her to be the program director for the new Nerdist
showroom at Meltdown Comics. So stepping up from
one show to overseeing the whole comedy schedule
for that venue. For about a year, 2011 to 2012,
it shows she had serious administrative and directorial
chops, not just creative ideas. Managing the
business and the art, that's a big deal. And
that success, managing the live venue, directly
feeds into the next step, taking the Meltdown
to TV. Comedy Central orders a pilot in 2014.
Right. And when the series launches in 2014,
she's credited as an executive producer. Not
just a consultant, but an e -key. That's a significant
title change. It is. It shows she could translate
that grassroots indie vibe she built into something
that worked for network television standards.
She could scale her production skills. That established
her as a series producer. What's really interesting,
though, is that while she's building this whole
production side, booking shows, running venues,
exec producing, she's also writing on very different
kinds of projects. Yeah, the diversification
is impressive, shows real ambition. On the TV
side, she was a staff writer for season two of
The Carmichael Show on NBC. Right, I saw that.
She wrote the episode New Neighbor. Yeah. Okay,
so working on a network sitcom staff, what does
that signal? Especially compared to the indie
comedy she was producing. It shows she could
handle structure. Network sitcoms have a pretty
specific rhythm, four acts, hitting certain beats,
working within network constraints. It's collaborative,
often intense. Very different from booking a
loose live show. Totally different skill set.
It proves she could master traditional narrative
pacing, write tight dialogue. It's about economy
and hitting the marks. But then completely different
vibe. She was also writing web series for Disney
.com aimed at teens. Yep. Two of them, power
up and explore it. So now she's adapting to yet
another audience, another tone, different pacing
entirely. Writing for Disney teens is worlds
away from the Carmichael show or the meltdown.
She's proving she's incredibly flexible as a
writer. Exactly. Broadcast sitcom structure,
live indie comedy curation, fast -paced digital
content for kids. She's covering a lot of ground.
Which kind of perfectly sets up her first book,
doesn't it, in 2015? It feels like a bridge.
It does. Super you. Release your inner superhero.
Yeah. Even the title kind of hints at merging
her worlds. Yeah. Self -improvement therapist
voice. Tongue -in -cheek comedy voice. Precisely
how the sources describe it. A tongue -in -cheek
self -improvement guide. Released just two years
before The Big Sick. It's like the first big
public project where she explicitly takes her
psychology background and filters it through
the comedic sensibility she'd been honing. It's
her showing, okay, I can package this unique
background creatively and make it accessible.
Monetizing that blend. before the movie hit big.
Okay, so all this experience, the therapy training,
the comedy production, the varied writing gigs,
it all seems to funnel into this one huge project,
The Big Sick. It really feels like the ultimate
synthesis, doesn't it? Co -written, co -exec
produced with Nanjiani. And its power comes from
being so raw, so explicitly based on how the
relationship started. That blend of culture clash,
sudden illness, love story. It's potent stuff.
And the way they chose to tell it is interesting,
too. Kumail plays himself, essentially. But Gordon,
writing about herself, they renamed the character
Emily Gardner and cast Zoe Kazan. Which must
have provided some necessary distance creatively.
You'd think so. Writing something so personal,
that fictional layer probably helps maintain
objectivity, allows you to treat the character
as a character, give her an arc, conflict, not
just transcribe your diary. Makes sense. Plus,
having Michael Showalter directing and Judd Apatow
producing, that's serious support. Apatow especially
loved that blend of raw honesty and comedy. And
the film wasn't just popular, it was critically
adored, especially the writing, which brings
us to all those awards. Yeah, the screenplay
recognition is where you really see her achievement
crystallize. Yeah. The absolute peak, obviously,
is the 2018 Oscar nomination for Best Original
Screenplay. Puts her in the top tier. Globally.
Instantly. Yeah. But let's break down some of
the other awards, too, because they highlight
different aspects of the script's quality, like
winning the Independent Spirit Award for Best
First Screenplay. What does that one signify,
specifically? The Spirit Awards are all about
celebrating unique, independent voices. Stuff
outside the big studio system. Winning Best First
Screenplay there means the indie film community
recognized something genuinely fresh and vital
in their writing. It wasn't just competent. It
was original. An endorsement of their specific
unconventional story. Exactly. Then you have
the peer awards, like the Writers Guild of America
nomination. The WGA not, that's writers recognizing
writers. And that's huge. It means the people
who actually do this for a living, who know how
hard it is to structure a story like that, blending
comedy, medical drama, cultural commentary. Yeah,
it's a tricky balance. They saw the craft in
it. That's a massive compliment from your peers.
And beyond the industry awards, the critics just
seemed universally on board. It wasn't just New
York and L .A. It was... The source list is kind
of staggering. Nominated for Gotham Awards, Critics'
Choice Movie Awards. Those are big precursors.
But then you see Austin Film Critics, Chicago,
Detroit, San Diego, San Francisco, Seattle, St.
Louis, D .C. area critics. It's like a roll call.
It really is. Yeah. And what that tells you is
the script resonated broadly. It wasn't seen
as just a niche indie or a rom -com. It hit something
universal. about relationships family crisis
which again you could argue goes back to her
unique training i think it absolutely does yeah
that ability to structure the messy parts of
human connection the cultural tensions the fear
she could articulate that with a clarity that
came from years of well analyzing it professionally
made it feel real to everyone so To really get
why the script felt so authentic, we need to
go back to the actual events it's based on, starting
with how she and Kumail even met. Right. The
origin story itself is pretty charming, very
well -fitting. Yeah. They met at a comedy show
in Chicago. He was performing stand -up. She
was in the audience. Yeah. And apparently she
lightly heckled him. Huh. Seriously. That's how
they met. And that's the story. Yeah. Which is
kind of perfect, right? For a future therapist
-turned -comedy writer marrying a comedian. Shows
her personality engaged, quick -witted, not afraid
to jump in. Definitely. And they started dating
soon after. Pretty quickly, yeah. But then the
story takes that incredibly dramatic turn. This
is the heart of The Big Sick. The illness. Yeah.
Not long after they started dating, she got incredibly
sick. Really suddenly. Really severely. It escalated
quickly to the point where she had to be put
into a medically induced coma. God, that's terrifying.
Especially for a new relationship. It's an almost
unimaginable pressure cooker. He's suddenly dealing
with doctors, life or death decisions, and her
parents, who he barely knows. All while she's
completely unconscious. And the diagnosis eventually
came back as Still's disease. That's right. Adult
-onset Still's disease. a serious systemic inflammatory
condition chronic the irony is just staggering
here she is trained to analyze relationship dynamics
under pressure and she's suddenly the center
of the most extreme version imaginable total
loss of control dependent on this new partner
she became the case study in a way And the crisis
wasn't just medical. It forced all these cultural
issues and family dynamics out into the open
for Nanjiani and her parents. Intense vulnerability
all around. But she did recover. It took time,
though. About three months, the sources say,
for the initial recovery. And you can see how
going through something like that together would
accelerate a relationship. For sure. They got
married in 2007. which was only about a year
after they first met in Chicago, that shared
trauma often cements things very quickly. The
sources also mentioned this was her second marriage.
Yes, that's confirmed. Adds another layer, perhaps,
to her understanding of relationships and commitment.
And remember, before they settled in L .A., they
lived together through those moves. Chicago,
then New York. So bringing back to the work,
she had the therapist's toolkit, the analytical
skills, the empathy, the understanding of dynamics.
Right. And then life hands her this incredibly
intense personal crisis. That becomes the raw
material. It's the perfect storm, creatively.
Her professional training gave her the framework
to understand and structure the chaos. And the
personal chaos gave her this powerful, authentic
story to tell. She wasn't just writing a movie.
She was processing her own survival through the
lens of her expertise. And that combination,
that specific blend of insight and experience
is what made The Big Sick resonate so deeply.
It had that rare mix of comedy and profound understanding
of, well, suffering and love. Exactly. A very
distinctive voice emerged from that crucible.
But the big sick, while obviously huge, wasn't
the end of the story. Her career kept evolving.
She's become this sustained creative force, moving
into bigger producing roles, continuing podcasting.
Absolutely. She didn't just rest on the Oscar
nomination. The podcasting, for instance, seems
like a consistent space for her and Angiani to
collaborate and sort of workshop their dynamic
publicly. Like the indoor kids way back from
2011 to 2015 on Nerdist. Right. And the way it's
described is interesting. Focused on video games,
but not exclusively. Yeah, I noticed that phrasing,
like using games as a jumping off point. Seems
like their pattern uses specific topic games
or later the pandemic as a way into talking about
bigger things, relationships, anxieties, culture.
Which they did again in 2020 with staying in
with Emily and Kumail. Totally. That one was
explicitly about lockdown, the COVID quarantine
experience. Turning that shared global anxiety
into something relatable, funny, analytical.
Yeah. Very much their style. Using their own
lives again. But importantly, beyond those projects
with Kumail, she's really solidified her role
as a major executive producer in her own right.
That feels like a significant shift in her industry
standing. It's a clear leveling up. From booking
indie shows to running major TV productions,
look at Little America. The anthology series,
yeah. 2020 to 2022. She's credited as co -creator
and executive producer for 16 episodes. Co -creator
means she's in on the ground floor, shaping the
whole thing. EP means she's managing it long
-term budgets, staffing, creative oversight.
That's serious managerial responsibility. Way
beyond just writing. Definitely. And then shifting
gears completely, she executive produced Welcome
to Chippendales in 2022. Six episodes. Now that's
interesting. A true crime story about power,
ego, toxic masculinity. Why bring her in as an
EP? Well, think about it. What's that story fundamentally
about? Relationships, right. Dysfunctional ones.
Power dynamics. Insecurity. Exactly. Her background
in diagnosing relational pathology, understanding
complex dynamics, spotting the underlying issues,
it's actually perfectly suited for guiding a
dramatic narrative like that. It shows the industry
sees her value beyond just the writer of The
Big Sick. They see her as a structural thinker
for complex character stories, no matter the
genre. I think so. And she's still doing traditional
writing work, too, like being on staff for season
two of HBO's Crashing. Right. Contributed to
eight episodes there, keeping her hand in the
writer's room. Maintains those connections, keeps
those skills sharp. And then looking forward,
she's moving into high profile adaptation work.
The project with Amazon Films, adapting Cynthia
Daybrick Sweeney's novel The Nest. Exactly. Adapting
a beloved complex novel like The Nest, which
is all about messy family dynamics and money.
That's a big responsibility. You have to streamline
it for film, but keep the core intact. And she's
working with big -name producers on that too,
Joey Soloway and Andrea Sperling. Yeah. It really
shows how far she's come, from adapting her own
life story to being entrusted with adapting acclaimed
literary fiction. The industry clearly trusts
her narrative and analytical skills at a very
high level now. So when you look back at the
whole arc, the specialized therapy degrees, running
the door at a comedy show, the Oscar nomination,
now producing... major series and adaptations.
It's just, wow, such an unconventional route
to massive creative success. The key takeaway
really is that integration, isn't it? She didn't
just switch careers. She brought the old one
into the new one. That deep knowledge of human
behavior, conflict, empathy skills from therapy,
they became the bedrock for her writing and producing.
It wasn't accidental. She seemed to intentionally
leverage her background, even the trauma, but
structure it using her analytical skills. Right.
It wasn't just raw emotion. It was structured,
analyzed emotion, which suggests that maybe the
most solid analytical training can actually fuel
the most powerful creative work. So the question
for you listening might be this. What unique
expertise do you have from some other part of
your life? Maybe a past job, a weird hobby, some
deep training that you're currently overlooking.
Yeah. Are there analytical tools or frameworks
you learned for one thing that could actually
structure your creative pursuits? Or maybe it's
the other way around. Can you take some deep
life experience you have and apply a more professional
analytical lens to it the way Gordon used her
clinical training to shape her personal story?
It really makes you think. Maybe your biggest
creative asset isn't something new you need to
learn but some strange expertise you've already
got filed away. Find that intersection. That's
where the breakthroughs seem to happen.